[HN Gopher] EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices
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       EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices
        
       Author : john-titor
       Score  : 376 points
       Date   : 2026-06-08 15:59 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.foodwatch.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.foodwatch.org)
        
       | stogot wrote:
       | Companies that poison the people like this should be sanctioned,
       | along with their owners. Greed and profiteering
        
         | spwa4 wrote:
         | Wasn't the EU fresh from a scandal that they voted all sorts of
         | laws, sued lots of EU companies, and then allowed Chinese
         | companies to import lots of stuff that obviously violated all
         | those laws for 20+ years?
         | 
         | From safety regulations to baby toys with lead paint.
         | 
         | The EU will probably do nothing again.
        
           | throwaway67678 wrote:
           | When it comes to safety regulations as with everything else,
           | some countries do not succeed, others do not try
        
           | Saline9515 wrote:
           | The EU has allowed large scale imports of chinese fake honey
           | for the last 20 years.
           | 
           | All of the beekeeper associations complain about it,
           | regularly conduct lab tests with honeys from supermarkets,
           | most of them being not honey, or mixed with fake honey.
           | 
           | The EU of course has done nothing : the beekeepers aren't
           | powerful enough to distribute the right bribes to the right
           | people. Meanwhile the consumers buy glucose syrup at
           | 15EUR/kg.
           | 
           | But hey, we have USB-C! It evenS out, right?
        
             | Hikikomori wrote:
             | Its up to individual countries to do it no? They've been
             | testing honey here recently and several brands got removed
             | from stores.
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | No, it's up to the EU to stop imports from China. It's
               | not possible for individual countries to do it:
               | 
               | - Lab testing is complex, requires to identify the DNA of
               | pollens in honey and few countries can do it at the
               | moment.
               | 
               | - Honeys are mixed, so it's trivial to receive fake honey
               | in a country that allows it, mix it, and reexport to
               | another one that forbids it. Same happens with olive
               | oils, no one cares.
               | 
               | - Many brands just lie, given that there is no
               | enforcement regarding food traceability and safety in
               | general in the EU (it's a meme to reassure consumers).
               | Where I live a brand advertising "locally made honey" was
               | found to sell glucose syrup : nothing happened.
        
               | Hikikomori wrote:
               | Does the EU have a centralized food testing agency?
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | It does have a food safety agency, but this is a classic
               | international trade problem that is solved at the border
               | since the EU is a trade union.
        
         | flexagoon wrote:
         | They don't "poison the people" unless the pesticides are found
         | in a toxic dose (they are not).
         | 
         | Of course, the legal limits are purposefully designed to be
         | well below the LOAEL, and those companies that were found to
         | contain levels above them should face consequences. But to
         | claim they "poison the people" isn't true.
        
           | Saline9515 wrote:
           | The toxic dose is a vague term. You may not die from
           | exposure, but you can still have effects, such as
           | infertility, cancers or endocrine disruption.
        
             | fasterik wrote:
             | If we really want to be precise, we should talk about parts
             | per million (PPM). Scientific research establishes a safe
             | level of consumption in terms of PPM, below which there are
             | no detectable health effects. Generally when you see
             | alarmism about "pesticides found in food" they're orders of
             | magnitude below the PPM that would have any effect on human
             | health.
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | Exactly, scientific research established that DDT was
               | perfectly safe, too! Scientists even used to eat it to
               | "prove" that it was safe.
               | 
               | In reality it depends, being biology, "safe level" is
               | also very relative since you don't know every effect the
               | substance has on the body.
               | 
               | That's why pesticides and other chemicals such as
               | bisphenols are regularly phased out, since effects can
               | appear long after "scientific research" established it
               | was "safe". Or it can affect certain populations, such as
               | farmers, who get a high dose, or children, who are more
               | sensitive than adults.
               | 
               | Others, such DDT, lead or cadmium, are accumulated in the
               | body over a long period, and then start to show effects,
               | even when the person has stopped eating it. Or can find
               | their way later the food chain: Inuits would get poisoned
               | when eating polar bear's meat, that was full of DDT from
               | fields on the other side of the globe.
        
               | fasterik wrote:
               | We update our beliefs as we get new data. There's not
               | much else we can do.
               | 
               | There's a common thought pattern among conspiracy
               | theorists. "Some conspiracies turn out to be real" so
               | that justifies their belief in their very specific
               | conspiracy theory. The same pattern occurs when we talk
               | about chemicals in our diet or the environment. "Some
               | chemicals turn out to be dangerous" but that doesn't
               | prove that a specific concentration of a specific
               | chemical is doing anything, unless we have data to
               | support the claim.
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | Precaution principle exists, and in the case of food
               | safety, "getting new data" make take years or be very
               | costly.
               | 
               | For instance, bisphenols in plastics baby bottles were
               | proved problematic after decades of use. Precaution
               | principle would have recommended to avoid them
               | (especially since they weren't necessary).
               | 
               | It's not trivial, and many businesses would rather see
               | their consumers die than cut their margins. I remember
               | buying some custom furniture; when it arrived it reeked
               | of varnish smell. I called the factory, told them they
               | didn't cure it correctly. Manager said "yeah we know, we
               | know it's dangerous but people get cancers years later
               | and you can't identify the source anyway" (true story).
        
               | SchemaLoad wrote:
               | We have seen over and over again chemicals which are
               | "safe to consume" or "not that bad" actually do have very
               | severe effects. It's just very hard to link cause and
               | effect. When someone dies of cancer we can't pinpoint it
               | to coming from the pesticide on the blueberries they ate
               | a few months ago.
               | 
               | We have all these terrible illnesses that we ascribe to
               | bad luck, and then all of these new chemicals we haven't
               | fully studied yet being sprayed on everything.
        
               | fasterik wrote:
               | Even things we know for certain aren't "safe to consume"
               | are harmless at small enough doses. If I drink chlorine
               | at 1000 PPM it's going to kill me, but drinking it at 1
               | PPM (roughly the amount added to drinking water in many
               | places, and well below the level in swimming pools) is
               | considered harmless to humans and kills pathogens, so
               | it's a net positive. _It 's possible_ that chlorine at 1
               | PPM causes cancer, but that's a claim that would require
               | evidence.
               | 
               | The same argument applies to pesticide or any other
               | substance. Without talking about specific numbers, it's
               | just speculation.
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | In the case of pesticides, lower doses may show increased
               | effects, what you say is false.
               | 
               | https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article-
               | abstract/33/3/378/2354...
        
         | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
         | +1
         | 
         | The downvotes aren't surprising, people who have spent enough
         | time on this orange site tend to lose the plot
        
       | burnt-resistor wrote:
       | There are all kinds of toxic residues and contaminants in the US
       | food supply because there's a lack of testing, lack of
       | regulation, lack of enforcement, and a lack of the precautionary
       | principle. Meanwhile, farmers will continue spraying RoundUp on
       | oats just before harvest, rice grown in the US will contain
       | arsenic from naturally-occurring contaminated soils, and almost
       | all bread contains toxic crap banned in the rest of the world.
        
         | nickff wrote:
         | This article is about the EU food supply, and does not appear
         | to attribute the contaminants to US exports. Why are you
         | bringing American cultivation practices into this?
         | 
         | If anything, this OP demonstrates that the EU regulations are
         | futile (though that may be an overstatement).
        
           | bijowo1676 wrote:
           | EU generally leads the developed world in regulation, that
           | has become a meme and a joke.
           | 
           | but for Food related stuff, EU standards and regulation are
           | truly superior for consumers, relative to US and other
           | countries
        
             | flexagoon wrote:
             | > but for Food related stuff, EU standards and regulation
             | are truly superior for consumers, relative to US and other
             | countries
             | 
             | That is mostly a myth. EU and US take different approaches
             | to setting food safety regulations, which means they have
             | different lists of banned substances. The EU bans a lot of
             | substances that have no evidence of actual adverse effects
             | just out of an abundance of caution or sometimes even
             | because of uninformed public perception, which is why their
             | regulations seem more comprehensive, but the vast majority
             | of that has no real positive effect on consumers.
             | 
             | https://blog.ansi.org/ansi/differences-between-eu-and-us-
             | foo...
             | 
             | In terms of actual food safety, the US is basically the
             | same as the EU (it technically ranks even higher than most
             | EU countries on the "Quality and Safety" criterion of the
             | Global Food Security Index, but the top countries are all
             | very close)
             | 
             | https://insights.economistenterprise.com/sustainability/pro
             | j...
             | 
             | (Before anyone accuses me of something, I live in the EU
             | and generally prefer EU in terms of lawmaking and
             | regulations. It's just that food safety specifically is a
             | point of comparison which is much less true than people
             | usually think)
        
               | NopIdoN wrote:
               | I'd love to see a policy difference where I prefer the
               | attitude of the US
        
               | otherme123 wrote:
               | The message you respond to talks about "food stuff",
               | which is admitedly blurry. You focus on food safety,
               | which is very good in the US. But the EU also regulates
               | heavily food quality and sustainability, and it usually
               | shows IMO.
        
               | OkayPhysicist wrote:
               | An odd exception to that trend is dairy products (thanks
               | to the hard work of various US Dairy Councils). Ice
               | Cream, sold as "Ice Cream" in the United States, is
               | _vastly_ superior to most anything you 'll find in the
               | rest of the world.
               | 
               | 10% milk fat (more exactly 1.6 lb per pre-mixed gallon,
               | but that's simply a bizarre way of phrasing it), no more
               | than half air by volume. 6-10% other dairy solids
               | (lactose, whey).
               | 
               | Compare with the UK: at least 5% _fat_ (no cows need be
               | involved)
               | 
               | France requires 5% milkfat, Germany at least requires the
               | 10% milk fat, but no further requirements.
               | 
               | Canada pretends to be at 10%, but if you add any
               | flavoring at all that can go down to 8%.
        
               | stackghost wrote:
               | Yeah, the US FDA allows artificial growth hormones in
               | dairy so let's drop this comical charade that US dairy is
               | good.
        
             | daedrdev wrote:
             | The United States has far stricter labeling standards than
             | the EU. That's why US products appear to have more
             | ingredients, they are required to say what their
             | ingredients are mad from, even on identical products.
             | 
             | Many things that are well known memes are completely false.
             | Not everything in the EU is better regulated. Everyone
             | always complains about chlorinated chicken, not realizing
             | that <5% of US chicken is washed that way as chicken now
             | uses vinegar washes, and those that did were at
             | concentrations deemed safe by the FDA.
        
               | Jensson wrote:
               | > The United States has far stricter labeling standards
               | than the EU
               | 
               | Source for that? All I can find says EU have stricter
               | labeling standards except for forum comments such as
               | yours here.
               | 
               | Edit: > Many things that are well known memes are
               | completely false
               | 
               | To me it looks like "USA shows more additives due to
               | harsher labeling standards" is just a meme, everything
               | I've seen says Europe has stricter requirements on what
               | you need to say about additives. So USA having much more
               | additives listed comes from American products having more
               | additives in them, not everything is better in USA.
        
               | thesmtsolver2 wrote:
               | https://www.tilleydistribution.com/insights/food-
               | regulations...                  The European approach to
               | food additives is visible. The EFSA assigns a 3- or
               | 4-digit code to every food additive, and that number must
               | be included on food labels if it's used in a product. The
               | EFSA believes this system makes it easier for consumers
               | to look up and memorize specific additives.
               | In the US, those same additives are required to be
               | printed out in full.
        
               | NopIdoN wrote:
               | That's not stricter, it's just different names.
        
               | thesmtsolver2 wrote:
               | It is stricter.
               | 
               | https://www.daymarksafety.com/news/some-fundamental-
               | differen...                  EU labels are not required
               | to list as much information about nutrients in a product
               | as compared to US food labels. Plus, they often omit such
               | items as saturated fat, fiber, and sugar.
        
               | NopIdoN wrote:
               | I fear you have been vinegar brain washed. Like this
               | talking point was dilled into you
        
           | Jensson wrote:
           | > If anything, this OP demonstrates that the EU regulations
           | are futile (though that may be an overstatement).
           | 
           | Nothing said that EU farmers used these pesticides, its
           | related to imports. And even most imports they tested were in
           | the legal limit even though they are from areas where these
           | things are legal.
        
         | nozzlegear wrote:
         | I agree the situation is shitty in the US, but what does that
         | have to do with pesticides banned in the EU? It seems entirely
         | superfluous to this to this story.
        
         | dirck-norman wrote:
         | There is some weird obsession on the internet about proving the
         | U.S. is the worst at everything.
         | 
         | Believe me, the majority of "The rest of the world" does not
         | protect its citizens from harmful food contamination.
        
           | llbbdd wrote:
           | I attribute a lot of it to the principle of "punching up".
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | Agreed. Nobody really talks about most other countries,
             | while the US is pretty much top of the list of nearly every
             | topic. So we're constantly a target.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > while the US is pretty much top of the list of nearly
               | every topic
               | 
               | s/is/was
               | 
               | The US is trying really hard to lower its position on
               | these lists. The US has not been near the top of
               | reading/writing/arithmetic in a long time. The US is
               | undoing a lot of federal regulations by
               | eliminating/reducing agencies meant to regulate things
               | like EPA, FDA, Dept of Education.
        
           | darth_avocado wrote:
           | You're the worst at everything when you're the only one
           | measuring it. There are parts of the world where vegetables
           | are grown next to where factories dump toxic waste. Pretty
           | sure no one is measuring that.
        
       | ofrzeta wrote:
       | For spices and tea it really makes sense to buy organic (not that
       | there are no fraudsters but still).
        
         | Jensson wrote:
         | Just buy from places where these laws are in effect instead of
         | imports from other countries where they legally use these
         | pesticides.
        
         | kuerbel wrote:
         | It also makes sense for anything coming out of third world
         | countries, pesticides kill and harm lots of farmers there.
         | https://www.publiceye.ch/en/topics/pesticides/pesticide-gian...
        
         | darth_avocado wrote:
         | Organic is just green washing, it doesn't mean no chemicals.
         | Plenty of organic products contain toxic chemicals and heavy
         | metals. Organic oats have been found to contain glyphosate.
         | Organic spices have been found to contain heavy metals.
        
           | Saline9515 wrote:
           | Organic means that no non-organic pesticides have been used
           | in production. There are still organic ones available, which
           | are less dangerous. Especially to the farmers who are the
           | first ones to get exposed to the poisons we spread on the
           | fields.
        
             | luqtas wrote:
             | care to cite any decent research proving you point?
             | 
             | there's an extensive body of research on synthetics having
             | no effect on human health, from goverment funded, private
             | and independent research... if you access your country's
             | official institution you'll see there's plenty of
             | synthetics allowed in organic agriculture just because they
             | mimic perfectly "organic" substances
             | 
             | interesting point too, is the lack of any extensive meta-
             | analysis/studies on organic pesticide impact on health and
             | plus the fact organic farm is rather poor (produce less
             | than 2% of the global food) and usually if not always lack
             | good machinery to spread pesticides on the recommended
             | quantities science points out (which organic agriculture
             | also has less literature on that too)
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | Not all synthetics are dangerous, many are. Many are
               | banned, with the list growing each year:
               | https://www.npic.orst.edu/reg/restricted.html
               | 
               | Why were they allowed in the first place, if "research"
               | was enough? Science is not definitive, and what we
               | believe to be an approximation of the truth today way be
               | discovered to be totally wrong tomorrow. You are
               | confusing science and religion.
               | 
               | Would you defend, for instance, that DDT and other
               | organochlorine poisons are safe? They were the darling of
               | scientists and agrobiz companies for a long time, until
               | we discovered well that they were dangerous.
               | 
               | Of course, if we find a strict equivalent to a
               | biopesticide that happens to be synthetical, it would be
               | a good substitute. But most synthetic pesticides are not
               | like this, unfortunately.
               | 
               | And what you say about the lack of studies regarding
               | organic farming is a plain lie, it takes 30 seconds on
               | google scholar to find it:
               | 
               | - Farmers in organic farms are less exposed to health
               | effects of synthetic pesticides: https://www.sciencedirec
               | t.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03784...
               | 
               | - Organic farming improve soils and yields: https://www.s
               | ciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1658077X2...
               | 
               | - Review on organic food quality and health effects: http
               | s://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12940-017-031.
               | ..
        
               | luqtas wrote:
               | > Not all synthetics are dangerous, many are. Many are
               | banned, with the list growing each year:
               | https://www.npic.orst.edu/reg/restricted.html
               | 
               | as many synthetic are developed... last time i was making
               | an inventory of an exclusive corn and soybean high tech
               | farm (selling on the hundreds millions USD) there was at
               | least 45 different pesticides... some were distributed in
               | a quantity of 10 mililiters! per hectare with machine
               | with proper air filter at the cabine of the tractor never
               | seen by the organic movement, which by the way,
               | considering their ~ 30% increase in land, fertilizers and
               | pesticides needs and their production totalling less than
               | 2% of all the global food, feels quite a stretch to read
               | author's conclusion of your last study...
               | 
               | your 2deg cited study shows improvement on soil quality
               | by variety/rotation, what it has to do with GMO
               | technology? one literally can plant varied stuff while
               | using synthetic pesticides... take a look on most health
               | studies done in organics and health not controlling for
               | life style factors, nor any major study even found
               | dangerous levels of pesticides in food. don't get me
               | wrong, there are niche cases were organic crops just make
               | sense but when you start dismissing GMO technology for a
               | 8 billion and growing world, which in decades will move
               | out of the rural ambient (rural flight is an on going
               | thing, literally no one wants to work in farms, much less
               | in organic ones were the workload is much bigger, if not
               | borderline on slavery (trust me, i did some WWOOF)),
               | feels pure ignorancy out of greenwashing or small studies
               | compared to what we rolled on science the past 30 years
               | of GMO technology
               | 
               | https://biofortified.org/genera/independent-funding/
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3367244/
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7061863/
               | 
               | https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600850
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6918800/
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10814746/
               | 
               | https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1602638
               | 
               | https://www.nature.com/articles/s44264-023-00009-7
        
             | parineum wrote:
             | > There are still organic ones available, which are less
             | dangerous.
             | 
             | "Organic" as in certified 'Organic' or as in the class of
             | molecules?
             | 
             | If the former then I'd love to see the classification
             | requirements that make a qualifying chemical safer all the
             | ones that aren't.
             | 
             | If the later, that's blatantly untrue
        
               | Saline9515 wrote:
               | "Organic" as in "allowed in what is commonly called
               | 'organic farming'". You can find the rather short list
               | here: https://www.agdaily.com/technology/the-list-of-
               | pesticides-ap...
               | 
               | Note that other countries may have different
               | legislations. You are also free to eat DDT to prove that
               | organic farming is not really safer.
        
           | i5heu wrote:
           | At least in Germany we have "Bio" which is a organic label
           | that is controlled at least somewhat.
        
             | jenadine wrote:
             | But it is controlled for the wrong criterias. "Natural"
             | doesn't mean healthy or good for the environment. It is
             | only greenwashing and "appeal to nature" fallacy
        
           | bluebarbet wrote:
           | Organic is a label which means something specific. Compliance
           | with the definition is controlled by law, however
           | imperfectly. It is _not_ just greenwashing.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | You are both correct. Organic means something specific.
             | However what it means is not what most people think it
             | means. People want healthy and good for the earth - that is
             | not what organic gives you. Sometimes it does, but
             | sometimes conventional ag (with all those scary chemicals)
             | is better.
        
               | bluebarbet wrote:
               | Yes, I get this argument. But everybody intuitively
               | understands the basic proposition of organic. Namely: "We
               | have not _added_ anything to your food for which you don
               | 't have many thousands of years of evolutionary
               | preparation." That is not pseudoscience, it's rational
               | circumspection. Or, as the European Commission calls it,
               | the "precautionary principle". Speaking for myself, I
               | find it convincing.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | Problem is we have modern science which in same cases has
               | proven that the modern chemicals are less harmful.
               | Remember lead was considered normal for many thousands of
               | years
        
               | bluebarbet wrote:
               | Modern science can only "prove" that something is not
               | harmful on a timescale of a year or perhaps a decade, not
               | a generation or more. If the precautionary principle had
               | been applied in Roman times, lead would _not_ have been
               | considered safe. Nor asbestos, nor thalidomide, nor
               | microplastics, nor a bunch of synthetic molecules -
               | "proven safe" - that are routinely added to non-organic
               | food in order to improve its yield or its cosmetic aspect
               | or whatever. That was my point.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | That is still better than organic, which doesn't even ask
               | what science can show about chemicals. The obvious
               | example is organic doesn't have GMOs, even though GMOs
               | are the only foods we even try and prove safe. Everything
               | else, what we just assumed, but nobody has ever actually
               | checked.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Yes, but we understand modern science as it pertains to
               | both... which is why lead is controlled for both organic
               | and non-organic farming.
               | 
               | Honestly curious, which of these is more harmful than the
               | non-organic alternatives?
               | 
               | https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-I
               | /su...
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | I used lead as an example only because everyone actually
               | understands why it's harmful. There are a number of
               | chemicals that are more harmful, common vinegar for
               | example in the concentrations that are useful, but nobody
               | understands it because nobody has actually read the
               | safety information on such chemicals.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | I would imagine any agricultural use of vinegar as an
               | organic chemical pales in comparison to it's culinary
               | use.
        
           | woadwarrior01 wrote:
           | Within the EU, it does. There's a whole regulation for it: EU
           | 2018/848.
        
           | tashoecraft wrote:
           | People are downvoting you, but you're right:
           | https://news.immunologic.org/p/organic-foods-are-not-
           | healthi...
           | 
           | Organic is marketing. Organic produce is more profitable.
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | Yes and no!
         | 
         | In the UK, tea means tea bags and that normally means tea bags
         | made of a plastic/paper mix. If I remember, the bag material is
         | made and then they heat it up to get the plastic out, revealing
         | the holes, needed for the bag.
         | 
         | Of late there has been criticism of microplastics in tea bags,
         | and the posh organic bags have fared quite badly. Fancy sachets
         | are not necessarily it.
         | 
         | As for chemicals, not one farmer spends any money than what is
         | the bare minimum, no matter what they do. They might have to
         | put all kinds of toxic chemicals on crops but they are not
         | going to waste money over-doing it, because they are tight with
         | the money, at all times, under all circumstances.
         | 
         | So the question has to be asked, is it worth worrying about the
         | worrying levels of chemicals in tea when there are worrying
         | levels of microplastics that the body really cannot get rid of
         | with some liver-fu?
         | 
         | But, are there more toxins? The working class British way to
         | have tea is with milk and two sugars. The milk is designed for
         | baby cows, not grown men, they should be 'weaned off' because
         | there are all kinds of things in dairy that might not be
         | toxins, but could be considered to be. For example the
         | cholesterol and saturated fat. Next the sugar, which is fine in
         | moderation, so long as you don't care for your teeth, and, when
         | combined with saturated fat, can contribute to type two
         | diabetes.
         | 
         | Clearly opinions vary regarding the health aspects of milk and
         | sugar in tea, my grandmother almost made it to a century,
         | consuming plenty. However, you can reduce the toxic load from
         | drinking tea by getting rid of the microplastics by using
         | plant-based teabags (even LIDL have them), not having milk and
         | sugar in the tea and, only then, getting concerned about buying
         | organic.
         | 
         | Organic does not mean no nasty chemicals, it means no synthetic
         | nasty chemicals. However, it is still a good nice-to-have, but,
         | realistically, if you want to cut your exposure to toxins,
         | there are these other huge areas that are under our control,
         | but those things are going to be controversial lifestyle
         | choices. Just not using cars 'could' reduce your toxic load far
         | more than any organic teabag.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | _Oh no, I drank 1 ml of saturated fat._ Is it even still all
           | bad for you? I thought I heard some detail about that
           | recently ...
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat
           | 
           | > A 2024 meta-analysis found that odd-chain and longer-chain
           | saturated fatty acids were negatively associated with the
           | risk of cardiovascular disease, including stroke.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd-chain_fatty_acid
           | 
           | >OCFAs are found particularly in ruminant fat and milk (e.g.
           | pentadecylic acid).
           | 
           | (I don't know if that means _most_ of the saturated fatty
           | acids in milk, it 's full of different varieties.)
        
           | podocarp wrote:
           | I am more worried about heavy metals and pesticide in tea
           | than the micro plastics in the teabag. There is more tea than
           | bag after all. Furthermore the ground tea found in teabags
           | potentially release more pesticides/heavy metals compared to
           | loose tea leaves you brew in a teapot.
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | Because of the thermal shock, these bags release _billions_
           | of plastic particles, that you immediately consume and let
           | diffuse into your organs. It may be one of the worst forms of
           | exposure to microplastics overall.
        
         | brikym wrote:
         | People still use tea bags even though they're a top source of
         | microplastics.
        
           | SchemaLoad wrote:
           | People don't even know. I had long assumed that it was only
           | the obvious nylon pyramid tea bags that were plastic, and
           | only recently discovered it's _all_ tea bags.
        
             | wahnfrieden wrote:
             | Source?
        
           | squidsoup wrote:
           | People still use tea bags even though what they contain is a
           | byproduct of tea production and barely counts as tea.
        
             | childintime wrote:
             | Then where does the real stuff go? The arabs, indians?? Tea
             | bags are the mass market in Europe for example. Hardly
             | anyone uses tea leaves (are they different?).
             | 
             | I know an Iranian in the Netherlands who says the tea there
             | is mostly coloring.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I carefully check the label and try to only buy Australian made
       | 100% food.
       | 
       | I never buy any food ever from China.
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | Does that meaningfully restrict which foods / ingredients you
         | can get?
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | No. Australia produces vast variety of food everything you
           | could want to eat aside from more exotic stuff.
        
           | SchemaLoad wrote:
           | In terms of fresh meat and vegetables, it's pretty much all
           | grown/produced in Australia. Anything canned / dried is often
           | imported though. Things like rice or coffee beans you
           | technically can buy Australian grown but you'd have to go out
           | of your way to find it.
        
         | verall wrote:
         | It's one of the richest food cultures in the world. If you've
         | never tried sichuan peppercorn on mapo tofu, or pickled mustard
         | greens on noodle dishes, I think you're in for a real treat.
         | 
         | These do involve foods from China though..
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | You can use safe Australian ingredients to cook the recipe.
        
             | Kirby64 wrote:
             | Where in Australia grows Sichuan peppercorns? They're
             | almost exclusively grown in China and the general regions
             | nearby to my knowledge.
        
               | Cerium wrote:
               | You can grow them yourself. I had no effort producing
               | more than I can use in only a few years time.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | They have some really good foods. They also have some really
           | unethical foods. When we only have a broad brush...
        
         | chupchap wrote:
         | In Australia, tea and spices are imported predominantly from
         | Asian countries.
        
         | nullbio wrote:
         | What's that going to help you with?
         | 
         | Ever been to Innisfail? Have you seen them fly small Cessna's
         | over the banana fields and absolutely drench them with
         | pesticides?
         | 
         | They do this with all the crop fields in Aus.
        
       | moi2388 wrote:
       | Oh you import food from third world countries and it's terrible?
       | Who would have guessed.
       | 
       | Better keep pushing the farmers in the EU away for more of these
       | great "trade deals"
        
         | darth_avocado wrote:
         | Are these EU farmers that are being turned away growing tea and
         | spices?
        
       | nozzlegear wrote:
       | The report itself[+] blames the pesticide residue on a "boomerang
       | effect" from EU countries: EU countries export these banned
       | pesticides to third countries, those countries use the banned
       | pesticides on the food they grow, and then the EU countries
       | import that food. In effect, EU companies are still profiting off
       | of the sale and use of banned pesticides on food that Europeans
       | will eat.
       | 
       | [+]
       | https://www.foodwatch.org/fileadmin/-INT/pesticides/banned_p...
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | Object on "blame"--it is actually only saying that this
         | scenario is possible, it is not establishing that it actually
         | is the cause.
        
         | ars wrote:
         | I checked the list of pesticides in the article, and almost all
         | of them were banned because of the effect on pollinators, not
         | because of human health.
         | 
         | So using these pesticides only on products for export makes
         | utterly no sense!
        
           | Jensson wrote:
           | They were never used in EU, what happened was that EU exports
           | the pesticides and then they are used in other countries and
           | then those food products are imported into EU.
           | 
           | So EU makes pesticides that itself bans from being used on
           | their own fields. Which isn't that weird, it isn't the
           | chemical that is banned it is using it as a pesticide that is
           | banned.
        
         | mhitza wrote:
         | That is one reason why I, at least try to, check the label and
         | avoid products with non-EU ingredients.
         | 
         | Also one of my worries with the mercusour trade deal. And any
         | deal that involves meat imports from the US, with specific
         | laxer regulation requirements (at least what Trump would like).
        
         | culi wrote:
         | Unfortunately this is an all too common pattern in the history
         | of pesticides. In 1979 DBCP was banned in the US after factory
         | workers became sterile. Dow Chemical happily shipped tons of it
         | to be sprayed directly on banana workers in banana republics[0]
         | by Dole/Chiquita/Del Monte. To this day Costa Rica, Honduras,
         | Guatemala, Panama, and Nicaragua have some of the highest rates
         | of infertility, birth defects, and chronic illnesses in the
         | world
         | 
         | This was just after the Gros Michel had gone basically extinct
         | because of monocropping. The banana companies hired scientists
         | to figure out what to do that almost universally recommended
         | diversifying the crop. But they calculated that it'd actually
         | be cheaper to just double down on pesticide application and
         | start again with another monocrop.
         | 
         | There's an incredible documentary about the banana industry
         | history (and practices that continue to this day like banana
         | companies paying gangs to assassinate local labor leaders)
         | called Bananaland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRmtQht8-E
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
        
           | 7moritz7 wrote:
           | I'd be more scared of publicly criticizing Chiquita than the
           | CIA at this point
        
             | culi wrote:
             | All but 2 countries in South America have had the
             | experience of democratically electing a leader only to have
             | them overthrown in a US-backed coup. The US/CIA started
             | with this obsession with the 1954 Guatemalan Coup
             | specifically to maintain Guatemala as a banana republic.
             | Chiquita owned most land in Guatemala and left is
             | uncultivated to stifle competition. Jacobo Arbenz wanted to
             | (slightly) tax this land to reduce poverty. Chiquita hired
             | Edward Bernays (yes, _that guy_. The father of modern
             | public relations, nephew of Freud, etc) for an influence
             | campaign and eventually got CIA to launch Operation
             | PBSuccess in 1953. The CIA /Chiquita gave very extensive
             | lists of political opponents to murder during the coup.
             | 
             | So what's really the difference?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | You can't spell Chiquita without CIA
        
               | pnw wrote:
               | Not just South America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All
               | eged_CIA_involvement_in_the...
        
           | pipeline_peak wrote:
           | What else would they have produced with banana crops that
           | people would've wanted?
        
             | culi wrote:
             | More banana varieties. The reason Panama Disease was so
             | successful is because of the practice of cloning. Every
             | single crop is the same genetics. Researchers warned that
             | starting over with the Cavendish would result in the exact
             | same thing again and the clear solution was to stop cloning
             | the exact same plant and grow more types of bananas (there
             | are more than 1,000 species of banana and tens of thousands
             | of varieties around the world).
             | 
             | Now we're dealing with TR4 because of the Cavendish being
             | grown in the exact same way but with an even heavier
             | reliance on pesticides, slavery, and violent control over
             | local power.
        
           | stinkbeetle wrote:
           | It's not pesticides, it's everything. Everything from slavery
           | laws to workers rights, environmental regulations, health and
           | safety regulations. The ruling class has conspired to evade
           | those regulations and crush local competition for 100+ years,
           | by offshoring and globalizing their abuses and exploitation.
        
         | thesmtsolver2 wrote:
         | > EU countries export these banned pesticides to third
         | countries
         | 
         | Shouldn't EU ban ideally exports of good that it bans
         | internally?
        
           | im3w1l wrote:
           | Only if you see the world in black and white and those
           | pesticides being an absolute evil. But if you see it as a
           | complicated tradeoff where whats right for one country can be
           | wrong for another then it's unproblematic.
        
             | gibspaulding wrote:
             | In other words, "yes, definitely". But they won't because
             | EUREUREUREUREUR.
        
             | thesmtsolver2 wrote:
             | > But if you see it as a complicated tradeoff where whats
             | right for one country can be wrong for another then it's
             | unproblematic.
             | 
             | How can anyone entertain that belief unless:
             | 
             | a) they think people in other countries have a different
             | biology
             | 
             | b) profits matter more than the health of people in other
             | countries (mostly former colonies of Europe)
        
           | rplnt wrote:
           | Couldn't it also be case where the pesticides are fine to use
           | on potatoes but not on tomatoes, for example?
        
             | psychoslave wrote:
             | No, pesticide are volatile and can poison water deep in
             | earth no matter which thing was the initial target.
        
           | psychoslave wrote:
           | Ideally we would all be exemplar citizen of the world direct-
           | democratic federation, careful of avoiding any compromission
           | and bribery in our wonderful system. Ideally we would all
           | always optimize for sustainability, careful to keep our
           | action in contemporary reciprocal mutual benefits, in the
           | extend that we confidently believe also able to bring
           | prosperity and peace to future human generations.
           | 
           | Concretely, my friend, I'm afraid this is not quite the world
           | the power imbalances lead us to.
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | The EU has said it will, and some member states, like France,
           | have, but a full ban is still pending.
        
         | germandiago wrote:
         | You cannot blame like this the administration when you make any
         | regulatory mistake such as not knowing a rule or not being able
         | to enforce it in practice.
         | 
         | It is amazing that we have regulations for everything and that
         | when they cannot enforce it, they blame someone else.
         | 
         | Different way of dealing with people depending on _who_ , not
         | _what_.
        
         | franciscop wrote:
         | I know someone close who grows oranges in Spain. He has to go
         | through hell, had to rework multiple times the fields so that
         | they pass the strict Spanish regulation for organic produce.
         | They get evaluated not only on the final product being
         | pesticide free, but also on the full process being compliant,
         | with heavy fines for non compliance.
         | 
         | This is fine-ish, except that the imported oranges get checked
         | only seldomly (if that) and are given a lot of leeway, making
         | it very hard to compete if you grow them locally. Last couple
         | of years saw some profit for growing them locally, but it's
         | been times where there was literally no profit at all for 5+
         | years.
         | 
         | Funny story: he requested a permit to build a well, and ofc it
         | takes forever so he just waited. After 4-5 years waiting,
         | having even forgotten about it, someone called him: "we're here
         | to inspect the well". What well? You haven't given me
         | permission yet. "yes, we know, but people build them anyway
         | before getting permission so we thought you'd do the same".
        
           | jenadine wrote:
           | > strict Spanish regulation for organic produce.
           | 
           | Organic labels are a different thing than official regulation
           | though. IMHO organic labels optimize for the wrong things.
        
             | tfourb wrote:
             | There is an official eu organic label. It's not compulsory
             | of course, but it's the baseline for organic food
             | production in and for Europe. Other (private) labels have
             | stricter rules and are usually certified in addition to the
             | EU label.
        
               | franciscop wrote:
               | No, this is definitely an official gvmt body that can
               | fine you if you try to sell fruit as organic that doesn't
               | follow the regulations. It IS definitely compulsory if
               | you mark your produce as organic.
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | "IMHO organic labels optimize for the wrong things."
             | 
             | What do you mean?
             | 
             | I only know of "Demeter", that also has some very esoteric
             | requirements (homeopathy, cosmic energy flow rituals) - but
             | otherwise organic label optimize for:
             | 
             | - no or little pesticides and herbicides
             | 
             | - more space and better condition for the animals
             | 
             | My only other grievance is that they also all ban GMO
        
           | CalRobert wrote:
           | I was surprised after moving to Ireland to discover that you
           | can break the law and nothing will happen. I went through
           | hell with planners (idiots who don't believe in climate
           | change and hate eaves) while people around me put three
           | mobile homes on their land as well as building two permanent
           | homes with no permission (and ripping out ancient hedgerows)
           | and successfully got retention. Why even bother?
        
             | trick-or-treat wrote:
             | Sure, but you have to move to Ireland. That's a deal-
             | breaker for most folks.
        
               | CalRobert wrote:
               | Yeah, we ended up leaving in part because of how lawless
               | our area was (the midlands)
        
               | rendall wrote:
               | I'd love to hear more about this if you have the time.
               | What specific things happened?
        
               | CalRobert wrote:
               | Family next door had 17 kids (yes, from one mother), 5
               | dangerous dogs, and absolutely despised us (somehow we
               | thought having a few acres of land would make worrying
               | about neighbours less necessary). There was an ongoing
               | decades-old land feud with the farmer behind both of our
               | homes. The aforementioned dangerous dogs killed several
               | of the farmer's sheep, so the farmer finally shot and
               | killed one of the dogs during an attack on said sheep,
               | which escalated tensions. We had 2 and 4 year old kids
               | who, it's worth noting, were roughly the size of sheep
               | and about as tempting for the dogs to kill, so we were
               | basically terrified to let our kids outside. Neighbours
               | routinely insulted us, yelled at us, and threw garbage
               | (including old chemical containers, sharp metal, etc.) on
               | to our land.
               | 
               | They also routinely trespassed and shot fireworks over
               | our thatch roof (the roof was part thatch, part modern) -
               | very concerning when your roof is more flammable than
               | kindling. Finally they left a dead crow in a bag by our
               | door which felt like a threat, so we sold the place at a
               | EUR100k loss and moved to the Netherlands.
               | 
               | Gardai were absolutely lazy, uncaring, and useless, and
               | did absolutely nothing.
               | 
               | Now I encourage everyone I can to stay as far away from
               | rural Ireland as possible.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | I jokingly refer to this as the Catholic principle: "sin
             | first - confess and repent later" as it's a common theme in
             | countries that are/were traditionally Catholic, including
             | my own.
             | 
             | It's really just places culturally untouched by Calvinism,
             | Puritanism and the like, all of which put emphasis on
             | order.
             | 
             | The last thing to attempt bringing order to them were
             | various forms of authoritarianism and they didn't last. I
             | think we can agree this is not the right approach.
        
               | CalRobert wrote:
               | Maybe I'm a Calvinist. I'm definitely happier in the
               | Netherlands. My general experience was that Irish laws
               | existed mostly for show and if you followed them you were
               | a chump. Unless you wanted to smoke a joint now and then,
               | of course.
               | 
               | Ireland supposedly cares about nature too, but you can
               | still buy truckloads of turf off the side of the road in
               | Offaly. Good luck getting those rules enforced.
               | 
               | Our experience wasn't limited to "victimless" crimes
               | though. I think when you're threatening your neighbours
               | and letting dangerous dogs loose on other people's land
               | where there's kids or sheep then authoritarianism is
               | called for.
        
           | verisimi wrote:
           | Organic food can use organic pesticides.
        
           | jimnotgym wrote:
           | This is a common complaint in the EU, since enforcement is by
           | ones own government, everyone believes that they are the only
           | ones being held to account. It may or may not be true in
           | general, but it sure gives that impression
        
           | retired wrote:
           | Meanwhile nobody bats an eye in Spain if you hire illegal
           | African immigrants, pay them far below minimum wage and house
           | them in shacks without electricity and running water. Places
           | like Almeria look like slave towns.
        
         | interludead wrote:
         | It also shifts a lot of the real exposure onto farm workers and
         | local environments outside the EU, while EU firms still capture
         | the upside
        
       | kryptoncalm wrote:
       | More relevant is that 14 out of 64 samples had levels above the
       | legally allowed limit (MRL), of which 12 pesticides that are not
       | approved in the EU (page 12 of report). This is more severe than
       | products 'containing' pesticides, which could as well be
       | advancements in measurement.
       | 
       | Problematic products are: Peppers, dried (6x), Cumin (3x), Rice
       | grain (2x), Tea leaves and stalks (1x), Non-fermented tea leaves
       | (1x), Mix of spices (1x).
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Cumin always shows up on these lists, whether it's with heavy
         | metals or something else. It's to the point where I've more or
         | less just stopped cooking with it because I don't trust it to
         | be safe.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Get yourself a dehydrator and try making it yourself. I've
           | started doing this with my herb garden and the catnip I grow
           | for my cats. They much prefer the stuff I make than the stuff
           | from the store as much as I enjoy my fresh dried
           | (oxymoronic??) herbs. I haven't tried cumin yet. We'll see
           | how the peppers in this years attempt at gardening goes.
        
           | enlyth wrote:
           | I probably have a weird gene or something but cumin smells
           | like disgusting body odour to me and any food that has any
           | trace of it I cannot eat or I will gag
           | 
           | This doesn't happen to me with anything else, I'm not a picky
           | eater and will happily eat literally anything else
        
             | ripe wrote:
             | > cumin smells like disgusting body odour
             | 
             | You're not wrong. If you smell pure cumin (without any
             | other spices or herbs), particularly if you grind and mix
             | it with yogurt to make a salty lassi, you get a whiff of
             | body odor. My kids called it "the BO drink".
             | 
             | It's a weird thing, but the smell becomes quite different
             | in combination with other smells. It's an ingredient in
             | many expensive perfumes, believe it or not! [1]
             | 
             | [1] https://www.fragrantica.com/news/CUMIN-Polarizing-Note-
             | of-Sw...
        
           | trick-or-treat wrote:
           | How much heavy meals can be hiding in a pinch of cumin
           | realistically? Maybe you should invest in a metal detector.
        
         | why_at wrote:
         | It's strange to me that this isn't the emphasis of the article.
         | 
         | I assume the MRL the lowest amount which could possibly cause
         | harm? If so then why does it matter for the rest of the
         | products where the levels are below that?
         | 
         | It could be for potential environmental harm, but then the fact
         | that these are being exported at all should tell you that
         | they're being used, you don't have to test consumer goods.
         | 
         | Their recommendations include this:
         | 
         | >2. Automatically lower all maximum residue levels (MRLs) of
         | non-approved pesticides to the limit of detection to prevent
         | these substances from making their way back onto European
         | plates via a dangerous 'boomerang effect
         | 
         | But is this scientifically supported?
        
         | interludead wrote:
         | The worrying part is not just that banned substances show up at
         | trace levels, but that a non-trivial number of products were
         | apparently over the legal limit
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | We're reaching the point where people need to install GC/MS
       | systems in their homes in order to be safe from food hazards.
        
         | LaGrange wrote:
         | No we don't. And the greatest hazard is the soul crushing
         | disappointment that is a Dutch tomato.
        
           | contingencies wrote:
           | _wasserbomben_ +
           | https://www.hortidaily.com/article/6022801/how-tasty-tom-
           | suc...
           | 
           | I'll settle for no soft apples.
        
       | colechristensen wrote:
       | Just a note that the majority of these detections report the
       | lowest amount chemistry can reliably quantify. Not the danger
       | level, the known biological effect level, the smallest amount
       | where chemistry can say they're statically confident the
       | substance is present in a known amount.
       | 
       | Modern gas chromatography is ridiculously sensitive.
        
       | nullbio wrote:
       | Why? I thought pesticides were safe? That's what the Monsanto bot
       | told me, anyway.
        
         | HerbManic wrote:
         | I too believed Patrick Moore representing Monstanto when he
         | said 'Round up' was safe to drink.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | > When the interviewer immediately offered him a glass of the
           | herbicide to drink, Moore refused, stating: "No, I'm not an
           | idiot," and abruptly ended the interview.
           | 
           | Guess he just want thirsty at that moment.
        
       | interludead wrote:
       | The obvious question is: if these pesticides are considered too
       | unsafe to use in the EU, why are EU companies still allowed to
       | export them?
        
         | ShinyLeftPad wrote:
         | Isn't that the only way they can profit?
        
       | l5870uoo9y wrote:
       | Not a single word on where the toxic products were produced
       | except third countries?
        
       | maurotdo wrote:
       | This boomerang is the effect of another boomerang: nothing grows
       | anymore without pesticides. I can see that in my crops and
       | fruits: when I was young I could benefit from the produce my dad
       | grew naturally. 30 years later nothing grows naturally anymore,
       | blight, insects and diseases kill everything in a few days. We
       | gave up, as it makes no sense to actively poison our produce when
       | the poison comes with no hassle from bought one.
        
         | simongray wrote:
         | I don't think you can conclude much from a sample size of 1.
         | 
         | My country at least (and probably yours too) is producing more
         | organic products than ever before. People are also consuming
         | organic products more than before.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | Don't organic foods use natural pesticides?
        
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       (page generated 2026-06-09 08:00 UTC)