[HN Gopher] All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust s...
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       All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like
       gunpowder (2018)
        
       Author : cybermango
       Score  : 181 points
       Date   : 2026-04-17 18:17 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.esa.int)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.esa.int)
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | we have similar problems with volcanic ash on earth
        
         | jMyles wrote:
         | I walked up to the flows on Fagradalsfjall when it was erupting
         | a couple of years ago, and I found the cinereous, sulfurous air
         | to be very medicinal and clearing. I'm not sure it'd have good
         | for me for more than a few hours, but as it was, it was great.
         | I occasionally wish I were able to just have a chamber with
         | that air in it.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | There are some saunas on Iceland that expose you to earth
           | gasses, might be exactly the kind of chamber you are after.
           | I've visited one, and it was unfortunately cold for a sauna
           | because that's naturally varying too.
        
         | tim-tday wrote:
         | Exactly, but the lack of a water cycle on the moon means that
         | all the dust is sharp and always will be.
         | 
         | It will irritate human mucus membranes whenever it comes in
         | contact. Irritate lungs, eyes, skin.
         | 
         | It degrades rubber seals.
        
       | jjmarr wrote:
       | Have any of them developed cancer from the space asbestos yet?
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | Only 4 are still alive, all in their 90s so that'd be a long
         | time - even if some do have cancer at this stage it's not
         | likely to affect life expectancy I guess.
        
           | AngryData wrote:
           | We also have to remember that those astronauts were some of
           | the most physically fit individuals in a nation of hundreds
           | of millions which may skew the expected medical outcomes.
           | Especially if we assume they always had the best healthcare
           | available, if from nothing else than doctors asking similiar
           | qiestions about the effects of space travel.
        
             | wat10000 wrote:
             | The exposure was brief, too. Wikipedia says mesothelioma
             | has been known to develop from exposures of "only" 1 month.
             | That's a scary short time if it's in your home or
             | workplace, but comfortably longer than an Apollo mission.
             | Could be an issue for a future base, though.
        
               | bdamm wrote:
               | It definitely puts a damper on my personal enthusiasm for
               | visiting the moon hotel, or even encouraging researchers
               | to live there.
        
             | altmanaltman wrote:
             | I mean Neil Armstrong literally smoked and did not
             | "believe" in excercise so they were absolutely not the most
             | physically fittest people. They were just freaks in terms
             | of enduring a lot of stress tests. Physical endurance is
             | just one aspect they train for. Other aspects were much
             | more valued like them being military flight pilots/smart
             | enough to understand the systems/mentally strong enough to
             | not break down etc. You were not selecting for absolute raw
             | fitness for the apollo missions.
        
             | themafia wrote:
             | The military does not survey the population and then select
             | the fittest. So, as a function, it cannot actually perform
             | as you say.
             | 
             | It's the same with F1. "We have the best drivers in the
             | world!" You have the best drivers from the self-selection
             | mechanism you impose on the sport. There are zero reasons
             | to think these categories have good overlap.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | They don't need to have sampled the entire population to
               | have ended up with some of the most x individuals of the
               | nation of y population size, they just need a large
               | enough pool that the top end up among some of the best.
        
             | tempaccount5050 wrote:
             | That's just simply not true at all, I don't know where
             | you're getting this idea. Literally every Olympic athlete
             | was more fit that an any astronaut ever.
        
         | porphyra wrote:
         | Even with actual asbestos, the risk goes up a lot with duration
         | and intensity of exposure. Probably, the risks of getting
         | cancer from a brief exposure is fairly low, and combined with
         | the ridiculously small sample size of only 12 people to ever
         | set foot on the moon, it's natural that none of them got "moon
         | cancer". That said, with asbesto, it's still possible to get
         | cancer even from brief exposures:
         | 
         | > Although it is clear that the health risks from asbestos
         | exposure increase with heavier exposure and longer exposure
         | time, investigators have found asbestos-related diseases in
         | individuals with only brief exposures. Generally, those who
         | develop asbestos-related diseases show no signs of illness for
         | a long time after exposure. It can take from 10 to 40 years or
         | more for symptoms of an asbestos-related condition to appear.
         | [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
         | prevention/risk/s...
        
         | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
         | Part of what makes asbestos (and also fiberglass) dangerous,
         | isn't just the sharpness but also the long shape which means
         | that macrophages can't engulf them.
         | 
         | Moon dust is still problematic since although smaller it also
         | can't be digested by macrophages and it's believed it would
         | accumulate in the lungs, building up on repeated exposure.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Sounds to me like the threat would be silicosis.
        
       | OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
       | They describe the dust on the moon as,
       | 
       | > Fine like powder, but sharp like glass
       | 
       | Sounds scary. But totally worth it!
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | Mars has toxic levels of perchlorates in the regolith. That will
       | require that humans never come in contact with the regolith or
       | things that touched it. Those space suits that dock to vehicles
       | seem like a necessity.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchlorate#On_Mars
        
         | snthpy wrote:
         | TIL
        
         | tim-tday wrote:
         | Yeah, the ground on mars is literally toxic. Makes the concept
         | of a Martian colony less appealing. Almost equal to a floating
         | station on Venus. At least there you'd have the correct
         | pressure. I seem to recall that the temperature on Venus at an
         | altitude of one atmospheric pressure is manageable. It's just
         | also acidic. Possibility easier to deal with than perchlorates.
        
           | MengerSponge wrote:
           | Mars is so bad, y'all.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Since the perchlorate is generated by reaction with sunlight,
           | it might be limited to a surface layer.
           | 
           | Well, I guess that's what regolith means.
        
             | kzrdude wrote:
             | Regolith is all the loose stuff, everything that's not
             | bedrock, even if it might be quite deep.
        
             | vondur wrote:
             | Rocket fuel for the taking?
        
           | lukan wrote:
           | Without massive terraforming all of Mars is very hostile.
           | 
           | But having solid ground is still nice.
           | 
           | A workable compromise is making big habitats in a dome, that
           | gives sunlight, but shields from radiation. And the ground
           | needs to be processed obviously.
           | 
           | The advantage of Venus to me is is gravity.
        
             | cosmic_cheese wrote:
             | Gravity kind of cuts both ways. Closer to that of Earth is
             | nearly guaranteed to be better for long term human health,
             | but there's a possibility that martian gravity is "good
             | enough" when supplemented with excercise while also making
             | heavy operations and getting back out of the planet's
             | gravity well easier.
        
             | cduzz wrote:
             | Venus seems like a wonderful place to live, relatively
             | speaking.
             | 
             | At the right altitude where you can "float" on the ocean,
             | it's a pretty comfortable temperature and there's plenty of
             | solar energy but you're shielded from the solar radiation.
             | So, long term, your body will still work, assuming you can
             | solve "the other problems."
             | 
             | Of course, the down-side is that there's nothing to stand
             | on and probably more importantly, there aren't many useful
             | materials to work with besides tons of carbon, oxygen, and
             | nitrogen. Not much hydrogen there, so not much water, which
             | probably is the biggest problem. One of them, anyhow. Also,
             | there's probably not a whole lot to do besides float (zoom,
             | actually) around and slowly go stir crazy in your bubble.
             | 
             | But relatively speaking, it's way nicer than living in a
             | hole on mars where you'll slowly die from gravity sickness,
             | or radiation poisoning, or whatever.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | > Not much hydrogen there, so not much water, which
               | probably is the biggest problem.
               | 
               | Actually, the cloud layer at that level is mostly
               | sulfuric acid, from which you can get your water. It also
               | means you need to be in a hazmat suit when you walk
               | outside, but that's still a step up from everywhere else,
               | where you need a bulky pressure suit instead.
        
             | operatingthetan wrote:
             | If we terraform mars, isn't the dirt still toxic?
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | No, as terraforming means changing that.
               | 
               | Whether it is really possible, is a different question,
               | but after you have an atmosphere, you could have
               | engineered microorganism processing the soil etc.
        
               | operatingthetan wrote:
               | In that sense then the term "terraforming" is on equal
               | footing with alchemy.
        
               | wolvoleo wrote:
               | Doing something like that at planetary scale is science
               | fiction anyway even if we did have the tech to do it.
        
               | naravara wrote:
               | If you can kick off self-sustaining biological processes
               | it'll happen on its own eventually, but you'd just be
               | looking at generational time scales to do it.
               | 
               | Of course you'll probably have lots of side-effects.
        
               | generic92034 wrote:
               | I would not be so pessimistic. Look what the
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria have done for
               | our atmosphere.
        
               | baq wrote:
               | Talking to computers and expecting computers to answer
               | coherent English was science fiction 4 years ago. Don't
               | lose faith
        
               | wincy wrote:
               | Maybe we'll turn all of Mars into paperclips with our
               | efforts! Glorious paperclips. First Mars, then the
               | universe!
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _In that sense then the term "terraforming" is on equal
               | footing with alchemy_
               | 
               | NASA has proposed using "synthetic biology to take
               | advantage of and improve upon natural perchlorate
               | reducing bacteria. These terrestrial microbes are not
               | directly suitable for off-world use, but their key genes
               | pcrAB and cld...catalyze the reduction of perchlorates to
               | chloride and oxygen" [1].
               | 
               | [1] https://www.nasa.gov/general/detoxifying-mars/
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | Just exposing the Martian soil to water for some time is
               | enough to destroy the perchlorates.
               | 
               | (Turns out there's a region in Antarctic with them too,
               | so we can always test things there.)
        
             | tarr11 wrote:
             | I wonder if it will turn out to be easier to adapt
             | lifeforms to the planets than to try to adapt the planets
             | to the lifeforms.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | Both probably, but you cannot really adapt life to no
               | water and hard radiation. (at most sustain it in stasis,
               | but not growing)
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Which dome construction material would be transparent to
             | sunlight but block ionizing radiation?
        
               | LorenPechtel wrote:
               | 1) Why do you need sunlight?
               | 
               | 2) If you have a source of hydrogen: water. Bonus as you
               | don't have to make the dome hold pressure. A layer of
               | water of the right depth will generate the force needed,
               | the structure only needs to keep itself level. The only
               | pressure holding is outside that, enough to keep the
               | water from boiling. And, well, it's water--if it's hit by
               | a rock that isn't too big you'll just have hole in the
               | top layer, easily fixed. The same general idea would work
               | on the Moon but the water is far from transparent if you
               | pile up enough of it and you need a lot of hydrogen.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | Well, I did wrote "gives sunlight" and that is a valid
               | reply to it. But ... I would need sunlight actually. That
               | seems somewhat possible with light tubes, but the much
               | nicer solution, a transparent dome to still see mars
               | clouds at day and the stars at night, is indeed not
               | possible with current materials.
        
           | ozgung wrote:
           | Sadly we underestimate the liveability of this Earth. Muskism
           | makes people believe to the false premise that we can just
           | buy a new planet, make it habitable with magical tech.
           | Supported with pseudoscientific buzzwords like Terraforming
           | etc. So we can recklessly consume this planet and jump to our
           | new home when this one depletes. No need to care about our
           | current home because it's a jumping board. Interesting as an
           | old Sci-Fi fantasy so it attracts smart people, but if you
           | really think about it's just lies and stupidity.
        
             | tim333 wrote:
             | Musk was also into the solar panels and EVs so it's not all
             | trash the planet. Even if living on Mars or Venus isn't
             | practical we might develop interesting tech trying.
        
               | Gigachad wrote:
               | Wasn't the solar panels thing just some financial fraud
               | scheme?
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Another interesting one is Mercury. There is a latitude where
           | the average ground temperature is comfortable for us. You
           | simply need to dig in deep enough to put enough thermal mass
           | above you to get that average rather than the swings. I don't
           | know how deep that is on Mercury, on Earth 10 meters is
           | enough. Real world, you'll want to go a bit farther towards
           | the pole so your station is comfortable with the thermal load
           | of whatever equipment you put in it.
        
         | ck2 wrote:
         | there's a great PBS Space Time for that (of course)
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5FqozA4IpA
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | If this fact piques your interest, the book Delta-v by Daniel
         | Suarez glances off this fact and uses it to justify exploring
         | asteroid mining instead of a colony on Mars.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | I'm not impressed with his science.
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | Or effective decontamination performed in the airlock. There
         | was a recent demonstration of an electrostatic repulsion device
         | reducing dust on suit fabric which might help with sticking.
         | And an air shower like used for clean rooms does not seem too
         | far out.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | Is that required?
           | 
           | Could the suit itself be used as a type of airlock, to leave
           | outside things outside?
           | 
           | For example, mounting yourself onto a wall, then the
           | back/whatever of the suit opens to the inside, and you hop
           | out? (yes, there would be some dust recovery required, but
           | minimal in comparison)
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _mounting yourself onto a wall, then the back /whatever
             | of the suit opens to the inside, and you hop out?_
             | 
             | Isn't there a plan for the Artemis lunar rover to be
             | configured this way? The outside of the suit never comes
             | inside the rover.
        
             | imglorp wrote:
             | The challenge with the "suits stay outside" model is that
             | you basically need some kind of airlock between the suit
             | hatch and the ship hatch. You might imagine both hatches
             | get contaminated when the suit is detached. Then when you
             | dock, that whole between-hatch space needs to be
             | decontaminated before you can open the two hatches, because
             | the outside of the suit hatch brought that stuff into the
             | airlock.
             | 
             | Someone else linked to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
             | Space_Exploration_Vehicle#Spec...
             | 
             | edit: in that context^ search for "SEV suitport design"
             | find NASA has written some docs on the matter, eg https://n
             | trs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20130013652/downloads/20...
        
         | chromacity wrote:
         | Calcium perchlorate is only slightly toxic. Not good for you,
         | but living in an environment with background radiation levels
         | 50x higher than on Earth may be your bigger worry...
         | 
         | Still, I'm pretty sure we have plenty of people who wouldn't
         | mind giving it a try.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | > That will require that humans never come in contact with the
         | regolith or things that touched it.
         | 
         | It's really only a concern if you ingest it.
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | Personally, I suspect all anoxic environments will turn out to
         | be unhealthy for humans. You'll have a bunch of reactive stuff
         | about that on Earth would have been neutralized long ago.
        
       | BFV wrote:
       | That's such a weirdly specific detail but also kinda fascinating.
       | Imagine going to the Moon and the first thing you notice is
       | "huh... smells like gunpowder.
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | I just had a filling replaced at the dentist yesterday and when
         | he was grinding away at it to shape it, I would get a terrible
         | whiff of something like gunpowder. It was quite disturbing.
         | 
         | But now I can just tell everyone my tooth is filled with moon
         | dust.
        
       | tcp_handshaker wrote:
       | "The toxic side of the Moon" -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47768039
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | This is a big perk of the newer lunar rover design, wherein the
       | suits stay outside the vehicle -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Exploration_Vehicle#Spec...
       | 
       | There has been some great research into laser or solar sintering
       | of regolith, and one of my first questions was if the resulting
       | material is safe for humans.
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-42008-1
        
       | corysama wrote:
       | I recall an article from a long time ago that basically said
       | "astronauts report" the moon smells like spent gunpowder and
       | outer space smell like... I think it was ozone.
       | 
       | What they were actually reporting was the smell of the airlocks
       | after they returned from their excursions. The moon has no
       | atmosphere, so it has been accumulating dust from billions of
       | years of asteroid impacts that have never come in contact with
       | oxygen. Many of the chemicals in the dust are oxidative and so
       | when it is exposed to air for the first time it rapidly
       | _oxidizes_ just like gunpowder!
       | 
       | And I think the outer space report was from space walks, and the
       | explanation was that the first time the airlock itself was
       | exposed to hard vacuum, the surfaces of the airlock would have a
       | reaction that left a scent of ozone.
        
         | Bender wrote:
         | My UV sterilizing lights make my room smell like O3 _Ozone_ and
         | that smells nothing like spent gun-powder to me. The only other
         | time I have smelled the same thing is when there has been mass
         | lightening events in the sky. Were they talking about actual
         | black powder or nitrocellulose? I 've smelled black powder at
         | the range when people bring out their antique rifles and that
         | also does not smell like Ozone to me.
        
           | coffeebeqn wrote:
           | Photocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone's
           | forgotten the smell
        
             | Bender wrote:
             | _Photocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone's
             | forgotten the smell_
             | 
             | Those are similar but sweeter. If I sterilize a room with
             | UV it has a very distinct smell like nothing else aside
             | from lightening and stun guns. I would UV the bathroom
             | right now but then I have to vent the entire house and its
             | 34F outside right now.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | I don't think any of you should want to be smelling
               | Ozone.
               | 
               | Diatomic oxygen is already a highly reactive fuel that is
               | killing us and giving us cancer every single day. The
               | ozone species is even more oxidative.
               | 
               | Oxygen is how we move about the energy gradient, but it's
               | also killing us. Ozone is worse.
               | 
               | "Air purifiers" with ionization are probably not worth
               | the squeeze.
        
               | Bender wrote:
               | Absolutely. I vent the house after running UV lamps using
               | a 4400 CFM air mover. _I leave the house and run
               | errands._ I have 3 of these [1]
               | 
               | They have a remote control that "arms" them and it starts
               | beeping slow, the faster, then much faster then
               | activates. It kills insects be destroying their lungs and
               | entirely destroys mold, bacteria and even damages viral
               | material. Hospitals run the same lamps in wings that they
               | close down for sanitation. The entire area has to be 100%
               | vented.
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.amazon.com/AeraLight-Whole-Surface-UV-
               | Sanitizer/...
        
               | alfiedotwtf wrote:
               | I worked for a germaphobe, and he put one of these ozone-
               | injecting air purifiers in our tiny office. Every morning
               | I would walk in and it felt like I was walking into a
               | thunderstorm from the smell. No gunpowder, just thick
               | ozone
        
               | dmurray wrote:
               | Aside from "killing us and giving us cancer every single
               | day", isn't "diatomic oxygen" the stuff we breathe every
               | single minute and need to survive?
               | 
               | I'm not normally one to miss the sarcastic or satirical
               | posts, but this one seems oddly earnest.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _isn 't "diatomic oxygen" the stuff we breathe every
               | single minute and need to survive?_
               | 
               | I think they're referring to oxidative stress [1] caused
               | by cellular respiration.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | The permissible exposure limit for ozone is 0.1 PPM.
               | 
               | The IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health) level
               | for ozone is five ppm.
               | 
               | That's half of _chlorine_ which is 10 ppm.
               | 
               | Most major brand air purifiers put out a very minimal
               | amount; the ionization is beneficial because it makes the
               | really tiny (and thus most hazardous) particles clump and
               | fall/stick to surfaces faster.
               | 
               | It's the offbrand units that generate lots of ozone to
               | make people think they're "doing something", and
               | commercial ozone generators for car/room deodorizing,
               | that you have to be extremely careful with. Those need to
               | be set up and then the room left for hours for the ozone
               | to react with stuff, and then ventilated thoroughly.
        
               | colechristensen wrote:
               | You might be smelling the oxidation of biologicals via
               | ozone and UV might have the same chemical effect
        
               | rrr_oh_man wrote:
               | Side quest: Can you tell more about the UV sterilisation
               | thing? Why do you do that? How often? Where? It seems
               | like such a specific thing to do.
        
               | Bender wrote:
               | I primarily use them in the bathroom to kill off mold and
               | bacteria about once every 3 months. I open up the water
               | heater closet, drawers, etc... then I fire one of them
               | up. I've used them in other places but the more they are
               | used the more I have to vent the house.
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | The only thing you're doing by sterilizing your house
               | like that is making your immune system weaker.
               | 
               | Humans are built to withstand a _constant_ assault on
               | their immune systems. We couldn 't have survived if we
               | didn't.
        
               | VoidWarranty wrote:
               | Careful. The venn diagram bubble depicting your statement
               | overlaps heavily with the anti-vaccine bubble.
               | 
               | Its a bit naieve to claim that cleaning one's home will
               | result in an extinction of enough microbes so as to be
               | threatening to our immune system.
        
               | Bender wrote:
               | Don't worry I know what I am doing.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | Brushed DC motors (as in some drills, toothbrushes, etc.)
               | emit ozone. Some light switches also create ozone-
               | producing electrical arcing if you hold them perfectly
               | between the on and off positions, or slowly cross the
               | midpoint. (Less easy with the newer-style, less
               | accessible rocker switches.)
        
             | saltcured wrote:
             | I also associate ozone with some electric motors, I think
             | because they have brushes that arc during operation. Older
             | power tools I encountered in the 1980s often did this, and
             | you could see the blue arc if you looked into the vents at
             | the right angle.
        
           | mr_toad wrote:
           | 'Ozone' is the smell of ionisation, 'gunpowder' the smell of
           | oxidisation.
        
           | corysama wrote:
           | The ozone report was specifically about space walks. The
           | gunpowder report was about moon walks.
           | 
           | Presumably, moonwalks would also have some ozone like the
           | space walk did. But, maybe the burning-moon-dust gunpowder
           | smell was a lot stronger than the vacuumed-metal/paint ozone
           | smell.
        
         | helterskelter wrote:
         | At least some ISS astronauts describe smelling burnt metal
         | after returning from EVA, if memory serves. (Others may smell
         | ozone, I've just always remembered hearing burnt metal).
        
           | junon wrote:
           | I always heard burnt steak.
        
           | thescriptkiddie wrote:
           | the exterior of the ISS is constantly exposed to small mounts
           | of atomic oxygen, which is an incredibly strong oxidizer.
           | probably in addition to ozone there is a huge variety of
           | organic and inorganic oxides that get tracked in through the
           | airlock.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_International_Space_.
           | ..
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | Fun trivia (well, perhaps not fun) in the second paragraph:
             | "the Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF), which was
             | retrieved in 1990 after spending 68 months in LEO"
             | 
             | Long exposure, 68 months, right. But it was only supposed
             | to be in orbit for 11! Challenger being destroyed on
             | reentry made a mess of things.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Duration_Exposure_Facili
             | t...
             | 
             | >It was placed in low Earth orbit by Space Shuttle
             | Challenger in April 1984. [...] At LDEF's launch, retrieval
             | was scheduled for March 19, 1985, eleven months after
             | deployment.[4] Schedules slipped, postponing the retrieval
             | mission first to 1986, then indefinitely due to the
             | Challenger disaster. After 5.7 years its orbit had decayed
             | to about 175 nautical miles (324 km) and it was likely to
             | burn up on reentry in a little over a month.[6][9]: 15
        
               | imzadi wrote:
               | Challenger was destroyed on launch, not reentry.
        
         | jordanb wrote:
         | There was some concern when Apollo 11 landed that when they
         | repressurized the LEM with moon dust samples inside it would
         | start a fire. I think they had a small test article that they
         | blew a small stream of oxygen over to ensure it wouldn't auto-
         | ignite.
        
       | hvs wrote:
       | If you want to get depressed about all the problems with trying
       | to colonize Mars, I recommend A City on Mars:
       | https://www.acityonmars.com/
       | 
       | It's by the cartoonist of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal and
       | his wife (the one with an actual science PhD). https://www.smbc-
       | comics.com/
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _If you want to get depressed about all the problems with
         | trying to colonize Mars_
         | 
         | I had the opposite reaction. I thought it set forward a
         | realistic set of challenges we have to solve and experiments we
         | have to do before building anything more than a research
         | outpost on Mars. That, in turn, makes a permanent Moon base
         | more valuable.
         | 
         | Standout problems were low- and zero-g trauma medicine,
         | plumbing (something Artemis II started working on) and
         | mammalian reproduction.
        
       | lucasaug wrote:
       | When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade
        
       | Patrick_Devine wrote:
       | Isn't this why NASA is developing the Electrodynamic Dust Shield
       | [1] system?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/nasas-dust-shield-
       | success...
        
       | tillinghast wrote:
       | Cue Cave Johnson: "The bean counters told me we literally could
       | not afford to buy seven dollars worth of moon rocks, much less
       | seventy million. Bought 'em anyway. Ground 'em up, mixed em into
       | a gel. And guess what? Ground up moon rocks are pure poison. I am
       | deathly ill."
        
       | mirekrusin wrote:
       | Sounds similar to asbestos.
        
       | mncharity wrote:
       | > "I think one of the most aggravating, restricting facets of
       | lunar surface exploration is the dust and its adherence to
       | everything no matter what kind of material, whether it be skin,
       | suit material, metal, no matter what it be and its restrictive,
       | friction-like action to everything it gets on [...] the simple
       | large-tolerance mechanical devices on the Rover began to show the
       | effect of dust as the EVAs went on. By the middle or the end of
       | the third EVA, simple things like bag locks and the lock which
       | held the pallet on the Rover began not only to malfunction but to
       | not function at all. They effectively froze. We tried to dust
       | them and bang the dust off and clean them, and there was just no
       | way. The effect of dust on mirrors, cameras, and checklists is
       | phenomenal. You have to live with it but you're continually
       | fighting the dust problem both outside and inside the spacecraft.
       | Once you get inside the spacecraft, as much as you dust yourself,
       | you start taking off the suits and you have dust on your hands
       | and your face and you're walking in it. You can be as careful in
       | cleaning up as you want to, but it just sort of inhabits every
       | nook and cranny in the spacecraft and every pore in your skin
       | [...]" Eugene Cernan, Apollo 17 debrief[1]
       | 
       | An interactive microscope of regolith.[2] Like tiny broken glass,
       | hard as rock, and sticking to everything like static-charged
       | packing peanuts.
       | 
       | An old tech memo and paper.[3][4]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://an.rsl.wustl.edu/apollo/data/A17/resources/a17-techd...
       | page "27-28" 258, 50 in pdf. Lots of other mentions of dust. [2]
       | interactive microscope of regolith
       | https://virtualmicroscope.org/sites/default/files/html5Asset...
       | [3] The Effects of Lunar Dust on EVA Systems During the Apollo
       | Missions
       | https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20050160460/downloads/20...
       | [4] IMPACT OF DUST ON LUNAR EXPLORATION
       | https://adsabs.harvard.edu/pdf/2007ESASP.643..239S
        
       | alex_be wrote:
       | "In addition the Moon has no atmosphere and is constantly
       | bombarded by radiation from the Sun that causes the soil to
       | become electrostatically charged." - You can use a magnetic or
       | electric field to push the soil away
        
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       (page generated 2026-04-17 23:00 UTC)