[HN Gopher] European civil servants are being forced off WhatsApp
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       European civil servants are being forced off WhatsApp
        
       Author : aa_is_op
       Score  : 72 points
       Date   : 2026-04-16 19:40 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.politico.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.politico.eu)
        
       | throwa356262 wrote:
       | Governments want to move away from "platforms over which we have
       | no control," says Dutch minister.
       | 
       | Sure, that is fair enough. But why is EU not setting up their own
       | servers for whisper or activity pub or whatever OSS protocols and
       | just make that their only official and approved communication
       | channel?
        
         | galbar wrote:
         | It is my understanding that a lot of EU governments are setting
         | up their own matrix servers.
        
           | Arathorn wrote:
           | This is true. We just published a map of it:
           | https://element.io/en/matrix-in-europe
        
             | wolvoleo wrote:
             | Question, with so many major orgs using it, are there no
             | plans for manual status? The one thing I miss vis-a-vis
             | teams is the ability to manually set myself away, appear
             | offline, busy etc.
             | 
             | Matrix shows me as active (green dot) when I have the
             | client open but there's no way to override that. At least
             | none that I found. I'm a bit surprised all these big
             | governmental clients didn't ask for such a feature :)
        
         | p2detar wrote:
         | I'd really want to see more examples of https://social.bund.de
         | 
         | This is the Mastodon server of the German Federal Commissioner
         | for Data Protection and Freedom of Information (BfDI). Embrace
         | decentralization.
        
           | p4bl0 wrote:
           | Here is one of the French government:
           | https://social.numerique.gouv.fr/
        
         | llacane wrote:
         | Actually European Commission has been on its own Mastodon
         | server for a couple years:
         | 
         | https://ec.social-network.europa.eu/public/local
        
         | polski-g wrote:
         | They're setting up matrix servers. Nato uses matrix.
         | 
         | Too bad the UX is dogshit and the end users lose their keys
         | every 90 days. Even though they're explicitly warned, loudly
         | and clearly, to not lose the keys.
         | 
         | Matrix software stack isn't idiot proof; Signal is.
        
           | wolvoleo wrote:
           | The key is only necessary as a backup these days. You can
           | share the key from one client to another which works well. As
           | long as the user has a laptop and phone it should be ok
           | unless they lose both.
           | 
           | But yeah it would be nice if the key could be escrowed
           | somewhere for big organisations.
        
         | p4bl0 wrote:
         | They do, actually.
         | 
         | For example the French government has its own Matrix platform
         | https://www.tchap.gouv.fr/ and its own Mastodon instance
         | https://social.numerique.gouv.fr/.
        
         | jandrewrogers wrote:
         | The problem isn't setting up the servers, they already exist
         | for the most part. It is getting anyone to use them.
         | 
         | I've seen this play out a few times in Europe. People are
         | extremely resistant to giving up WhatsApp. These rules are so
         | widely flouted that no one takes them seriously, including the
         | people making the rules. It is a bit of theater, meanwhile
         | everyone continues to use WhatsApp. There is no will to
         | actually make this change.
         | 
         | If your boss keeps sending you messages over WhatsApp, why
         | would you do any different?
        
           | wolvoleo wrote:
           | At my workplace we only use WhatsApp for personal comms. Like
           | chatting about which restaurant we go for lunch, who's at the
           | office tomorrow, when is everyone's birthday, what did we do
           | this weekend, that kinda stuff.
           | 
           | For work related stuff we use teams and that it's kinda
           | needed too because we can only link to internal resources
           | there, like SharePoint.
        
         | lbreakjai wrote:
         | Aren't they about to handle DigiD to the U.S? You know, the
         | tool we use for absolutely any sort of identification when
         | interacting with the government?
        
       | spwa4 wrote:
       | The problem with these efforts is always the same: organizations
       | make their own messenger, and the fact that these organizations
       | then have control over their own messenger ... means their
       | employees won't use it. And that's ignoring that you can bet your
       | firstborn they cut corners developing these messengers, so
       | they're not pleasant to use to boot. In 2026 you still hear
       | complaints of government employees that they only have 200 mb of
       | mailbox space ... _sigh_
       | 
       | People "don't trust" in the very abstract sense, Mark Zuckerberg.
       | But in a very real sense they don't trust their manager at all,
       | and they know their own manager can see their messages on the
       | "sovereign" messenger. Zuckerberg wants to sell them stuff they
       | don't want on occasion. Their manager ... well they're cheating
       | their manager.
       | 
       | Oh and it doesn't even buy extra security: the platform owners
       | can spy directly through hardware backdoors, they can "update"
       | any app on the phone, and they have the root keys to the secure
       | element, and so it isn't secure to them. And if you look under
       | the covers ... the backend is on AWS? No? Must be on Azure then.
       | 
       | So annoying lots of people, reducing functionality, for no actual
       | security.
       | 
       | Sure sounds like EU governments are behind this ...
        
         | gretch wrote:
         | I've always found it ironic that people who distrust software
         | from Mark Zuckerberg instead trust software from... 3 guys in a
         | garage.
         | 
         | "Those 3 guys in a garage would never sell us out! They are
         | paragons of virtue!"
        
           | parrellel wrote:
           | "We shall trust 27 different sets of 3 to 10 guys in garages
           | and ensure they never become large enough to blackmail a
           | large percentage of the world's governments safe in the
           | knowledge we can in fact arrest them for illegal bs" does
           | have an appeal however.
        
           | palata wrote:
           | It's more trusting something you can audit and control (e.g.
           | open source) vs trusting something you cannot audit and
           | control (e.g. proprietary service by BigTech).
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _organizations make their own messenger, and the fact that
         | these organizations then have control over their own messenger
         | ... means their employees won 't use it_
         | 
         | Legally mandate its use for official communications.
        
           | spwa4 wrote:
           | So the managers also demand their employees don't use it you
           | mean? Because then it can be used against them in court?
           | (cfr. email "retention policies" legal departments demand
           | these days?)
        
             | wolvoleo wrote:
             | In most European countries we don't have this extensive
             | discovery thing that the US has. It's not really a problem.
        
           | subscribed wrote:
           | And they'll keep doing what Boris Johnson was doing when in
           | power: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-
           | johnson-covid...
           | 
           | They'll do it anyway.
        
             | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
             | This is helpful because it makes the criminality stand out.
             | 
             | Because, yes, in democracies we have public records laws.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | > the fact that these organizations then have control over
         | their own messenger ... means their employees won't use it.
         | 
         | Not sure what you mean here; I happily use whatever work email
         | and messenger systems are provided for work. Most people do. I
         | don't actually mind that IT services have access; they are in
         | any case covered by GDPR.
         | 
         | In some cases there has been a legal crackdown on back
         | channels:
         | https://www.ft.com/content/68c26cf6-52d5-11e3-a73e-00144feab...
         | 
         | The Boris Johnson problem remains, but it can at least be made
         | against the rules for normal work purposes.
         | 
         | (Remember not to type crimes into a computer, people)
        
           | elcritch wrote:
           | > (Remember not to type crimes into a computer, people)
           | 
           | Please ignore that. It's daft talk. Definitely record your
           | abuses of power.
        
           | ButlerianJihad wrote:
           | https://youtu.be/9Klj0H6YMLQ?si=L7DrQgF0pI07zLE9
           | 
           | "Videotaping this crime spree is the best idea we ever had!"
        
         | 9dev wrote:
         | That doesn't really apply in the EU, because your manager or
         | even your org don't have any right to read your messages, that
         | would constitute a crime actually.
         | 
         | I suspect the reason would be far simpler - people use what
         | they are used to, and WhatsApp is the de-facto standard
         | Messenger app all over Europe.
        
         | palata wrote:
         | Well, on the work messenger, you talk about work.
         | 
         | For private discussions, you do that on your private device,
         | with a private messenger.
         | 
         | I would say that the digital sovereignty is more about "Entity
         | X doesn't want the US to have access to all of their internal
         | communications". Typically a non-US company or a non-US
         | government should care about that.
        
       | hackerbeat wrote:
       | Good. The US is gone.
        
         | marssaxman wrote:
         | Digital sovereignty would always have been a good idea,
         | regardless of the present insanity.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | European civil servants are also usually banned from using AI --
       | perhaps with the exception of Microsoft copilot. They live in a
       | bubble where they just don't know. This goes for most academics
       | as well.
        
         | ironman1478 wrote:
         | Maybe that's a good thing. I want people running my country to
         | actually know how to do things.
        
           | lpcvoid wrote:
           | No idea why this is down voted. Ai makes people dumber and
           | kills problem solving skills over a long timespan.
        
         | j_maffe wrote:
         | What do you mean by most academics? In Europe? That's just
         | blatently untrue.
        
         | jampekka wrote:
         | What are you on about?
         | 
         | I don't know of any software or services that would be banned
         | at my university. People use all sorts of LLMs extensively.
         | 
         | At least in Finland also civil servants are free to use what AI
         | services they want, given they don't put in sensitive
         | information. Just like they can use any search engine they
         | want.
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | Ah yes. "It's so bad that people in government agencies cannot
         | give sensitive info to US companies or blindly rely on LLMs for
         | their decisions since nothing has ever happened when people in
         | governments blindly trusted black boxes"
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
         | 
         | https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-scandal-serves-as-a-wa...
        
         | com_kieffer wrote:
         | The European Commission actually has an internal AI chat
         | platform with a selection of different models, and
         | recommendations on which to use based on the classification
         | level of the information that will be shared with the AI model.
         | 
         | Some are hosted internally (LLAMA models), other are sourced
         | from commercial providers (Mistral, OpenAI).
        
       | dotcoma wrote:
       | It's just common sense.
        
         | iririririr wrote:
         | You'd think right? But most of south american and southeast
         | asia political scandals were cause by political figures using
         | whatsapp and messages "leaking" thanks to a "hacker".
        
       | casey2 wrote:
       | Europe has been irrelevant since 2008. Basically 0 growth and
       | pensions larger than paychecks. Even if young Europeans had the
       | skills or the desire, which they don't, they wouldn't have the
       | capital.
       | 
       | The US is preparing to siphon most of the EUs wealth with this AI
       | bubble. This title is just one in a long line of smoke and
       | mirrors meant to distract Europeans from the fact that trillions
       | are being spent to build datacenters in the US.
        
         | mjfisher wrote:
         | I hope most people have a broader definition of "relevance".
        
         | wolvoleo wrote:
         | Trillions of made-up money.
         | 
         | And really I'm super glad I don't live in the US with the
         | nightmare regime there. Money isn't everything. Things cost a
         | lot less here too. I don't need to have two jobs to pay for
         | rent and healthcare, when I get fired I'm getting welfare. I
         | don't get shot by random civilians carrying guns or even the
         | ICE Gestapo.
         | 
         | Those things really matter too.
        
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       (page generated 2026-04-16 23:01 UTC)