[HN Gopher] Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is
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       Civilization Is Not the Default. Violence Is
        
       Author : paulpauper
       Score  : 15 points
       Date   : 2026-04-14 22:23 UTC (37 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (apropos.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (apropos.substack.com)
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | thats what all the monkeys think
        
         | jongjong wrote:
         | The distinction isn't meaningful to me because I feel like one
         | of the humans from Planet of the Apes here.
        
       | HerbManic wrote:
       | This is true but also those that embrace violence to closely are
       | destined to eventually fall via violence. Power through fear has
       | very few people trying to catch it on the way down.
       | 
       | Everyone can have that violent tendency, the trick to acknowledge
       | it and work around it.
       | 
       | It is a core tenant in Taoism "All things carry yin yet embrace
       | yang"
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | I read "Humankind" by Rutger Bregman and now think this is not
         | true.
        
       | crawfordcomeaux wrote:
       | And the default civilization is violent.
       | 
       | So let us return to the matrilineal, matrifocal ways developed by
       | those who created and nurtured life before we had a language that
       | covered all of our needs and build replacement civilizations from
       | there. Time to get back into the nonbinary animist ways of being.
        
       | ks2048 wrote:
       | I'm sure the author doesn't need to hear "leftist-counter-
       | arguments 101", but the US has not dominated by peace and
       | "through arguments rather than force".
       | 
       | The US has "pushed for liberalism", but only when it aligned with
       | economic interests. There's a long list of brutal dictatorships
       | and Islamic extremists propped-up by the US.
       | 
       | To give one data point (lesser known, I think), check out the
       | book "The Jakarta Method" and learn about the ~1M Indonesians
       | killed in this era of Pax Americana.
       | 
       | That being said, I agree with the author on the Enlightenment
       | principles and can see the world getting worse in this regard.
        
       | wisty wrote:
       | So this is the argument that there's a path dependence in how
       | peaceful a civilisation is. I think whatisalthist argued this as
       | well - that Christianity (with largely pacifist founders) did a
       | lot to moderate Rome, and then the Catholic Church (which some
       | argue is the rump of the Roman empire) moderated its region of
       | influence.
       | 
       | whatifalthist is a bit western centric (and a bit ... odd and
       | extreme in some ways), but it seems reasonable, you could argue
       | that India and China are also historically pretty peaceful (more
       | so even than Europe), internal issues aside (yeah, Taiping
       | rebellion, the 1940s and 50s, and any other Chinese civil
       | conflict for example). 2 nuclear powers with the ability to
       | rapidly create well over a million strong armies (India and
       | China) can be having actual deaths on a contested border (e.g.
       | the 2020 border clash) and it's no real concern, whereas in some
       | regions a war can basically start over a mean tweet. The argument
       | is that culture / institutions / path dependence matters.
        
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