[HN Gopher] Most people can't juggle one ball
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Most people can't juggle one ball
        
       Author : surprisetalk
       Score  : 491 points
       Date   : 2026-04-09 12:35 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lesswrong.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lesswrong.com)
        
       | comboy wrote:
       | To be fair, I can do 3 balls effortlessly, but I can't do 1 ball
       | like it is in this description, I just have a lot of error
       | correction, enough to do it pretty much indefinitely. But I
       | cannot reliably throw it accurately to the other hand.
       | 
       | Our software stack is the opposite of that.
        
       | vunderba wrote:
       | Longtime juggler here.
       | 
       | Outside of more complicated tricks like the claw and other
       | specialized patterns, the most common juggling patterns (such as
       | the cascade [1]) don't rely as much on pure handeye coordination
       | as they do on maintaining a consistent, even toss. The key is
       | throwing each ball so it rises and falls in a predictable arc, so
       | it lands approximately in the same spot where your other hand is
       | waiting to catch it.
       | 
       | When I teach complete beginners, I actually start with a set of
       | special handkerchiefs. They fall more slowly than balls, which
       | gives learners more time to react and makes it much easier to see
       | and follow the path of each object through the air.
       | 
       | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_(juggling)
        
         | justonceokay wrote:
         | Every time I got better at dancing I got better at juggling
         | too. In my folk psychology, juggling is a partially-attached
         | extension of your hands, so it's just weird dancing.
         | 
         | If you think of it like 3 jobs you have to do simultaneously
         | everything falls apart. Internalizing the three balls as a
         | single process that you are participating in makes it a lot
         | more manageable.
         | 
         | Of course the only way to get there is some 10s of hours of
         | practice
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | Yeah I could see that. I think that because dance is so
           | heavily reliant on proprioceptive abilities, it makes sense
           | that there would be some overlap with juggling.
        
         | empiricus wrote:
         | A long time ago (pre-internet) I heard a normal person can
         | learn to juggle in 1 day. It took me 2 days, but I learned to
         | juggle 3 balls. But soon I realized what you said, the need for
         | a consistent toss. Not sure of the reason, but I always make
         | some errors with physical movements, they are never perfect.
         | Even with typing, no matter how much I exercise, I cannot get
         | bellow ~3% errors. Wondering if this is some kind of genetic
         | effect, and how many ppl have similar issues.
        
           | P-Nuts wrote:
           | I haven't tried juggling for decades but I did manage to
           | teach myself basic three-ball juggling when I was at
           | university (any excuse to avoid revising!)
           | 
           | I think it took me a couple of weeks though. I'm a bit
           | malcoordinated for that sort of thing in general. I think
           | you're right that there's some sort of natural aptitude that
           | not everybody has. Fortunately basic juggling is just about
           | easy enough that almost any idiot can do it.
        
           | PyWoody wrote:
           | I, too, make unpreventable physical errors all the friggin
           | time.
           | 
           | For instance, I attempted to upvote your comment but
           | initially downvoted it. Sigh.
        
             | vunderba wrote:
             | This made me laugh. The number of times I've Admiral Ackbar
             | fat-fingered the flag button when I just wanted to hide a
             | post on HN is almost too many to count at this point.
        
           | lores wrote:
           | If you are on the spectrum at all, you have a high-to-very-
           | high chance of being more clumsy than average due to
           | differences in sensory processing.
        
         | pstuart wrote:
         | Any recommendations for youtube lessons?
        
           | irishcoffee wrote:
           | Practice against a wall with tennis balls, it'll take a day.
        
             | fph wrote:
             | I don't recommend tennis balls for a beginner: they bounce
             | everywhere, and you'll spend most of your time chasing the
             | balls rather than juggling. Cheap juggling balls are around
             | 10$.
        
               | vunderba wrote:
               | This. Something like a hacky sack also works very well.
               | They don't roll away from you, and they won't drive your
               | neighbors nuts especially if someone lives below you when
               | they hit the ground.
        
               | soopypoos wrote:
               | hacky sack the planet!
        
               | geekamongus wrote:
               | If you do use tennis balls, stand in front of your couch
               | so they land there and don't roll away.
        
               | tocs3 wrote:
               | Learning to juggle way back lasts century, I learned to
               | juggle using lacrosse balls. Very bouncy and and a little
               | on the heavy side. Standing over a bed helps if you are
               | using bouncy things (they still can cause havoc in a
               | bedroom when they bounce off each other though).
               | 
               | One of the IJA (International Jugglers' Association)
               | videos that most impressed me is : IJA Tricks of the
               | Month by Zaila Avant-garde | Juggling Basketballs
               | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH2E1m8Fseg). Not only
               | does she manage the juggling but her parents let her do
               | it indoors with all sorts of stuff around.
        
               | vunderba wrote:
               | I actually learned contact juggling with a lacrosse ball,
               | since its uniform color and texture make it hard to see
               | the rotation of the ball. That way, you get the similar
               | visual effect to a more expensive acrylic, but without
               | the risk of chipping if you drop it while you're still
               | learning.
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | Amazing. Thanks for sharing!
        
               | irishcoffee wrote:
               | Part of the motivation is to make sure you catch them and
               | they don't bounce away. Negative externalities aren't
               | always a bad thing.
        
           | nickcw wrote:
           | I love Taylor Tries
           | 
           | https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGV8mtb7t-4PuziHauottOfqp.
           | ..
           | 
           | Great teaching style and a fantastic juggler
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | https://archive.org/details/Juggling-Step-By-Step-1987
        
         | nickcw wrote:
         | My favourite technique is after the initial two ball crosses
         | was for me to stand in for their left (or non dominant) hand.
         | 
         | You stand slightly behind your pupil and get them to put their
         | left hand behind their back and you put your left hand about
         | where theirs should be. You give them one ball in their right
         | hand and then you start the pattern with two balls.
         | 
         | Most people are amazed to find themselves juggling at this
         | point. Yes, you are correcting their mistakes but it gives a
         | real feeling of juggling for them. Most people manage 10
         | catches quite easily at this point.
         | 
         | Once they have the hang of that swap sides. This one is harder,
         | don't do it too long before setting them off on 3 and they can
         | practice themselves from here on.
         | 
         | I have taught 100s of people to juggle like that :-)
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | That's a neat approach! It's not really the same, but it kind
           | of reminds me of an interview they did with Michael Moschen
           | (the guy who performed the contact juggling scene in Jim
           | Henson's movie _Labyrinth_ ). He talked about how difficult
           | it was because he had to thread his arms underneath David
           | Bowie's, so he couldn't actually see the acrylic ball while
           | he was doing the contact juggling.
        
             | zimpenfish wrote:
             | Well worth 6 minutes of anyone's time watching him do The
             | Triangle
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHoedoSUXY
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | Seconded! Just watched it, that was great. :)
        
           | QuantumGood wrote:
           | Some of us had a juggling party at a lake. All amateurs, i.e.
           | few could manage much with clubs. An international juggling
           | award winner (don't remember more than that) found out,
           | joined us, and had a number of us partner juggling flaming
           | torches pretty quickly, and kept pushing us into more and
           | more techniques. The quality of the coach matters!
        
         | delichon wrote:
         | I wonder if juggling positive buoyancy balloons upside down
         | would develop skills transferable to right side up. You can
         | make those as slow as you want. When jugglers juggle balls
         | against the floor I guess they don't start from scratch.
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | Lol. I've juggled non-buoyant, air filled balloons but
           | because of their elasticity they don't exactly _settle_ into
           | your hand when they land.
           | 
           | In my juggling routine, one of the things I do is transition
           | to lying on my back face up while continuing to juggle. I'm
           | throwing the balls straight up above my head while lying
           | perfectly flat, which feels pretty weird. So I can't imagine
           | how difficult it would be to be physically upside down while
           | juggling.
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | When I learned to juggle (which I've forgotten), it was with
         | beanbags, because they don't bounce away when you drop them.
        
           | mark-r wrote:
           | But where's the fun in that? Chasing the balls is half the
           | challenge!
           | 
           | Seriously, knowing the balls are going to roll away if you
           | drop them gives you some incentive to do it right. I think I
           | used tennis balls early on.
        
             | sejje wrote:
             | My dad bought me a kit of beanbags that looked like globes
             | when I was 9 or 10.
             | 
             | My incentive to do it right was "I want to juggle." I'm
             | glad I didn't have to chase them around, what a waste of
             | time.
        
               | ccozan wrote:
               | Apples was my choice of juggling fruit! Good weight/size
               | ratio and also the reward at the end of my training
               | session :).
        
           | c22 wrote:
           | I taught myself next to a bed so I didn't have to bend over
           | to pick them up.
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | The way I taught myself to juggle was something I don't see
         | very often in guides, but I think works quite well -- I taught
         | myself to juggle two balls _in one hand_ , until I could do it
         | with both hands, and then three ball juggling with two hands
         | was just doing the exact same thing, but crossing.
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | Yeah I have wondered about that as a method. You can even
           | just go two balls in one hand, then switch to the other side
           | and back, and that's almost the 3 ball pattern.
        
         | sjrd wrote:
         | Oh waw, I had totally forgotten about the handkerchiefs. But
         | this is indeed how I was first thaught juggling when I was a
         | kid. Thanks for the trip down the memory lane!
        
         | AirMax98 wrote:
         | I'm very amazed by this site linked in the Wikipedia:
         | https://libraryofjuggling.com/Tricks/3balltricks/Cascade.htm...
         | 
         | Supposedly from 2014, but looks a fair bit older.
        
         | orangesilk wrote:
         | could you please link the beginner handkerchiefs?
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | The ones I have are pretty old, and I got them from a local
           | store that doesn't exist anymore. They're kind of slightly
           | weighted, for lack of a better term almost like a foxtail
           | toy.
           | 
           | You could probably just use standard juggling scarves and get
           | much of the same effect. Renegade Juggling is probably one of
           | the better places to buy juggling equipment.
           | 
           | https://renegadejuggling.com/products/juggling-
           | scarf-23-inch...
        
           | scarecrw wrote:
           | I learned using plastic bags. Probably not as uniform in
           | their motion as handkerchiefs, but worked to get the pattern
           | down before moving to balls.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | Yeah I never really mastered a consistent throw - it's just not
         | how my brain works. I got as a pretty shakey 4 ball shower and
         | that was it.
        
         | nickm12 wrote:
         | It's been a while since I taught anyone to juggle, but I
         | generally disrecommended scarf juggling. It's fine if you want
         | some quick validation, but the hand movements are so different
         | from balls/bags that I don't think the skills are transferable.
         | 
         | I prefer the method described in the original post. Just start
         | with one ball and get that right, then two, then three. It's a
         | bit like the Karate Kid, though. Students don't find it as
         | satisfying because they want to jump ahead before they've got
         | the movement down.
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | The scarves I use, as I mentioned in another thread, are
           | actually weighted. They fall more like a traditional ball,
           | just significantly slower. I've found that this works pretty
           | well for teaching, but of course everyone learns differently.
        
         | wkjagt wrote:
         | It's crazy how much you don't actually need to look at your
         | hands. I learned juggling a long time ago, and I remember
         | discovering this. It feels like you become good at predicting
         | from the top of the arc where you need to place your hand so
         | that it intersects with the arc. I was surprised to see that as
         | I got better, I also started catching the balls where the throw
         | was a little off and I had to extend my arm to catch it, but
         | still without actually looking at my hands. And at some point
         | it becomes automatic and fast.
         | 
         | There was this one time when I was grocery shopping (I had been
         | practicing a lot at that point), and someone accidentally
         | pushed a jar off a shelf, and I caught it without looking or
         | even thinking. I felt a little bit like a super hero with super
         | reflexes :-)
        
           | vunderba wrote:
           | Definitely true! A good way to practice and make sure you're
           | working on throw consistency rather than pure reflexes is to
           | juggle while watching a TV show. It's even better if it's
           | something like subbed anime, so you have to read the
           | subtitles while you juggle.
        
         | kakacik wrote:
         | I learned myself juggling out of boredom when I was kid. Just
         | tennis balls or similar stuff I found. In early 90s, no info
         | anywhere, just started.
         | 
         | 2 balls with 2 hands, 2 balls with 1 hand and finally 3 with 2
         | hands. Didnt push it further, we had too low ceiling for bigger
         | throws that 4 balls would require, and juggling 2 balls in each
         | hand was... tricky to keep up for longer.
         | 
         | Consistency of the toss is exactly how I could keep up, if 1
         | went off I lost it usually within few throws. Unless I did it
         | on purpose. Recently showed it to my kids, obviously rusty but
         | still had the moves.
         | 
         | Damn, I had so much free time as a kid its surreal now.
        
       | comrade1234 wrote:
       | I taught myself in junior high to juggle three balls with two
       | hands and two balls with one hand. It's not a huge accomplishment
       | but what amazes me is that I can go years without trying it and
       | when an opportunity comes up I can just do it again, within just
       | a couple of tries. Those neuronal connections just never go away.
        
         | nickcw wrote:
         | Learn to juggle two balls with the other hand and you are half
         | way to 4 (which is two in each hand out of sync)
        
           | comrade1234 wrote:
           | I may try that. I can do two balls in either hand already. I
           | just never tried doing it in both hands at once.
           | 
           | Strangely even though I'm right-handed I feel more
           | comfortable juggling two in my left hand. I also bat and golf
           | left-handed so sometimes I wonder if my parents forced right-
           | handedness was on me.
        
           | NiloCK wrote:
           | Out of curiosity - can you juggle four balls?
           | 
           | I _can_ , but I wouldn't describe having two two-ball capable
           | hands as being half-way there. If forced to put a number on
           | it, something like 20% is the best I could do.
        
             | nickcw wrote:
             | Sure! Juggle two in dominant hand. Then two in weak hand.
             | Then two plus one both ways round, then 4. That's how I
             | used to teach people anyway. Balls go up on the inside and
             | down on the outside. For most people two really well in non
             | dominant hand is the hard part.
        
               | NiloCK wrote:
               | When you taught, what was a typical uptake like?
               | 
               | I came in and out of 'actively juggling' through time,
               | but I was at least 20 years with strong two in my off
               | hand before four really started to do four for any real
               | number of throws.
               | 
               | The perpetual issue was that the loops move in and out of
               | sync, so the rhythm of responsibilities ends up with beat
               | patterns that confuse my focus.
        
               | nickcw wrote:
               | I always felt that 4 wasn't a huge step up from 3 for
               | most people, especially given the right tips. If you
               | learn 3 in a day or two then 4 is a week or two. That
               | kind of thing.
               | 
               | A good trick to practice 4 is to throw 4 throws in the
               | middle of 3. So you juggle 3 balls then throw one to the
               | same hand (the 4 throws) while holding a ball in the
               | other for a beat (the 2 throws). You can put the 42
               | throws anywhere in the 3 pattern and if you do it as
               | quickly as possible you get 423 which is an interesting
               | pattern. 441 is good too - harder but helps with that
               | sync problem.
               | 
               | The big step comes at 5. It took me nearly a year to
               | master 5 balls with consistent practice. I eventually got
               | reasonably good at 6 balls (juggled in sync, crossing
               | over) but that's where I plateaued as far as numbers go.
               | 
               | There are lots of other things than numbers though. Non
               | jugglers will have no idea how many balls you are
               | juggling so you can impress with 3 balls. My favourite
               | party trick was blindfold juggling. I used to be able to
               | juggle 3 balls for about a minute like that.
        
               | globular-toast wrote:
               | Juggling two with the non-dominant hand is so hard. Much
               | harder than juggling three balls. There's something
               | fundamentally different about using your non-dominant
               | hand independently as opposed to in coordination with
               | your dominant hand. I can use my left for many things:
               | juggling, typing, playing guitar etc., but as soon as I
               | try to do it with my right hand behind my back I feel
               | incredibly weak.
               | 
               | It would be so useful to have two right hands. I'm
               | curious whether you think getting over the hump helps
               | with ambidexterity in general.
        
               | nickcw wrote:
               | Something I learnt was when learning new juggling tricks,
               | make sure to practice them both ways round. For example
               | if you are learning to shower 3 (round in a circle
               | juggling) make sure you practice the high throws with
               | your right and left hands. It gets easier the more you do
               | it so I guess that it does help with ambidexterity.
        
               | Thlom wrote:
               | I can juggle 4 balls for a little while, but two in my
               | non-dominante hand? That's so unnatural I don't think
               | I've even bothered trying.
        
         | throwyawayyyy wrote:
         | Same! Every so often I remember that I can juggle, and spend a
         | minute or two juggling, and feel better for it. And then I
         | forget for weeks or months.
         | 
         | (I taught myself while procrastinating from exam revision, many
         | years ago. I started with a large bag of oranges. Just enough
         | of an incentive not to drop them, no real harm when they did
         | hit the floor.)
        
         | bpoyner wrote:
         | I taught myself to juggle in a weird way. I had 3 lightweight
         | plastic cubes, laid down on the bed, and began tossing them
         | directly over my head (my hands on either side of my head). I
         | think it gave me a good sense of where each cube was at all
         | times.Once I got good at juggling supine, I just transitioned
         | to sitting up straight.
        
         | RaftPeople wrote:
         | > _I taught myself in junior high_
         | 
         | I had a class in junior high where we had time each day to mess
         | around with juggling.
         | 
         | I got good at the balls and then got pretty good at the bowling
         | pins things (not as heavy but same shape).
         | 
         | I could do 5 pins for a decent amount of time. It felt really
         | good when I was in the groove of the flow, the arc, the spin
         | and the sequence.
         | 
         | I tried 7 pins and was pretty excited to get a cycle or two
         | successfully.
        
       | yathern wrote:
       | > Another mistake is completely ignoring the ball and staring
       | into the distance. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've seen it a
       | bunch more with *rats* than anywhere else. In any case, I would
       | recommend you just casually glance up at the ball as it reaches
       | the top of its arc
       | 
       | Is 'rats' a juggling jargon I'm unfamiliar with? Or do rats stare
       | into the distance often?
        
         | mlyle wrote:
         | Rationalists. It's lesswrong slang.
        
           | downboots wrote:
           | So much for juggling rats
        
         | zahlman wrote:
         | TFA is posted in/for a community where "rats" is slang for the
         | community members.
        
         | FrameworkFred wrote:
         | I derailed after this sentence. I searched for more uses of
         | "rats" in the article, then looked in the HN comments to see if
         | it was a bit of jargon that I was unaware of. I read "Lessons
         | from the art of juggling" years ago, but despite the primer, I
         | couldn't get past the unanswerable question of whether I was,
         | in fact, a "rat".
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | Just today I improved my record to 18 minutes. Btw, I noticed my
       | juggling is completely subconscious, I don't move my hands
       | voluntarily where the ball is, the hands move on its own.
        
       | bgun wrote:
       | A little disappointed that the writer never attempts to address
       | the title of the post, which is either a) _why_ most people can
       | 't juggle a single ball, or b) how the author even knows this to
       | be true, aside from some limited anecdata.
       | 
       | My (admittedly limited) juggling experience would indicate
       | something closer to "Anyone can juggle", or that your average
       | person, particularly young people, can learn to juggle one, two,
       | or even three balls with an afternoon of practice, but I suppose
       | that makes for a worse title.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > "Anyone can juggle"
         | 
         | Technically this is not incompatible with the title. Just uses
         | "can" in a different sense. The title would be using "can" in
         | the "has the skill already", while you use "can" in the "able
         | to acquire the skill" sense.
         | 
         | It is not hard to imagine that most people when asked the
         | question "can you juggle?" would answer in the negative. That's
         | what the article's title describes. And then if those people,
         | given sufficient motivation can learn to juggle that leads to
         | your sentence. And they both can be true at the same time.
         | 
         | I agree that it would be nice to provide source for the claim
         | though.
        
           | Dylan16807 wrote:
           | I would say no to currently being able to juggle, but that's
           | because I don't consider one ball to count as juggling.
           | 
           | If you specifically asked if I could juggle one ball, I'd say
           | sure. And I just checked, one ball goes fine. And I've never
           | practiced juggling. I'm pretty skeptical about that ability
           | being the minority.
           | 
           | So I also want more explanation of the title.
        
             | pizzafeelsright wrote:
             | I am not fully certain but juggling is moving objects in a
             | predictable path so as to repeat without dropping.
             | 
             | In my understanding of the OP, juggling 'one' is being able
             | to throw an object consistently to another hand without
             | handing it. This is an intentional throw of the ball from
             | one hand to another without "moving" the other hand to
             | compensate.
             | 
             | Throwing from one hand to another, either directly or in an
             | arc, requires the motorskills to move an object
             | consistently while understanding the speed, trajectory, and
             | then moving the other hand to receive (not catch) it as
             | expected.
             | 
             | There are multiple elements at play with 3 object juggling.
             | One must throw an arc toss to the other hand, while holding
             | an object, then throwing the object in said hand to free
             | the hand to catch. In reality you are holding two objects
             | with one in motion - until you get the double arc which is
             | now technically juggling.
             | 
             | Three bodies in motion, two hands that are each making
             | circular or figure eight motions, while maintaining a
             | consistent arc and speed (XY (no Z) + T = arc) where the
             | mind either tracks or forgets allowing the predictable
             | movements work themselves into only tracking one object at
             | a time - by setting it's path and then shifting focus or
             | attention to the next.
        
         | jvert wrote:
         | Long, long, (long) ago I used to teach people to juggle at the
         | local Renaissance Fair. I would say I could get almost everyone
         | to flash 3 in less than 30 minutes. Most people walked away
         | having at least 5-6 successful throws. The only people who
         | really couldn't learn are those who don't like to fail and
         | won't even try. Learning to juggle is repeated failure and you
         | have to be willing to persist. Learning 5 clubs (very briefly)
         | took me many years of repeated failure.
        
       | jamses wrote:
       | I tried and failed to learn to juggle three balls many times,
       | I've just got terrible coordination. But one day I stood over a
       | bed and just threw them in the air and listened to the rhythm of
       | the "thuds" as the missed balls hit the mattress. As soon as I'd
       | got that down it was like a switch clicked and my hands knew
       | "when" to be ready for the catch, rather than trying to follow
       | the balls to catch them. I never managed four, so mileage may
       | vary with this technique, but it was a very surprising lightbulb
       | moment.
        
         | kuboble wrote:
         | I had a friend who had absolutely terrible coordination.
         | 
         | I would bet against him being able to learn three balls.
         | 
         | But he was very dedicated. Long story short. After many years
         | he could comfortably juggle 6 (six!) balls.
         | 
         | It looked wobbly, he still looked like a person without
         | coordination, but the balls somehow stayed in the air.
        
           | alemwjsl wrote:
           | I wonder if his coordination in other areas has improved as a
           | side effect?
        
             | mark-r wrote:
             | I know mine sure did! As a kid I was totally uncoordinated,
             | always the last one to be picked for any sports teams. But
             | I definitely noticed the difference when I picked up
             | juggling as a young adult.
        
             | varenc wrote:
             | I do some light juggling adjacent activity, and I think
             | it's absolutely improved coordination in other ways. When
             | things randomly fall unexpectedly now I feel like my hands
             | snap out and catch them so much more deftly than before.
             | And with a crawling baby in my life now, I'm often catching
             | them as well.
             | 
             | Greatest pride was catching a tumbling beer at a party, and
             | getting called spider-man.
        
               | kuboble wrote:
               | I had the same experience.
               | 
               | Getting good at juggling makes things fall down
               | noticeably slower. But despite getting really good at
               | juggling, I haven't observed any other super powers.
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | Four is just two in each hand. Learning to do that one hand at
         | a time is a nice addition to a three ball cascade. You hold the
         | third in your other hand, and it's a good source of jokes.
         | 
         | You can do four-out-of-five, which is a five ball cascade with
         | a missing beat (just as how you learned two-out-of-three while
         | learning initially). Unfortunately it's very hard and still
         | doesn't impress people.
        
       | Dilettante_ wrote:
       | Didn't expect this to actually be about juggling, but I'm not
       | complaining
        
       | _the_inflator wrote:
       | Juggling is so much fun! I use 3 balls and felt like it was easy,
       | when you know where to start and simply follow the process step
       | by step.
       | 
       | Memory Masters draw me to it, and I found some super normal niche
       | Streamers showing what to do.
       | 
       | Juggling is some sort of meditation.
       | 
       | Enjoy!
        
       | yenko wrote:
       | Thanks for posting this. You reminded me I have three juggling
       | balls collecting dust behind my monitor. I forgot how fun it is!
       | As others have said I'm surprised the muscle memory is still
       | there even after a few years without trying.
        
         | mark-r wrote:
         | I wonder if I got Alzheimer's so bad that I couldn't remember
         | my kids names, would I still be able to juggle? And would it be
         | therapeutic in any way?
        
           | yenko wrote:
           | In a couple of people I have known, some physical
           | capabilities remained long after their memory was gone. There
           | was also this woman who wrote about her husband Alzheimer's.
           | He could still play tennis and golf while not being able to
           | do much more basic tasks like picking an outfit for the day.
           | I don't know if it was therapeutic but she said he gave him a
           | lot of joy.
        
       | instig007 wrote:
       | Just juggling with balls in the air gets boring very quickly, and
       | the added numbers don't make it much different. Learning statics
       | and flows from contact juggling, but performing them with
       | standard juggling balls is so much more fun. And then you
       | discover statics with hoops:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6UuPsw2i4
        
       | febusravenga wrote:
       | I can only juggle 3, but I prefer clubs. Balls are so boring they
       | are so small and not spectacular. Clubs on the other hand, man
       | they are rotating. Once, twice, treetimes, backwards. I believe
       | that if someone stuck at this basic level of juggling 3 balls, he
       | should try clubs - at least for me it's pure satisfaction
       | watching these rotating in various variants before.
        
         | philiplu wrote:
         | Learning club juggling was fun. That led to partner club
         | juggling as well as flaming clubs. Got a nice video of me
         | juggling flames and overrotating a club so I catch the flaming
         | end. Whoops.
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | Many years ago one Saturday morning I happened upon a juggling
         | shop. I could already do three balls so I asked if I could try
         | the clubs. After about an hour of failing the shop owner said
         | something like "some people never get it". So of course I
         | bought a set. After 12 hours that day and 12 hours the next I
         | got the hang of it. They are harder to learn than balls but
         | still doable for an unsporty person like me. And, as you say,
         | very satisfying.
        
           | jimbokun wrote:
           | That shop owner was a good salesman.
        
           | throwaway290 wrote:
           | Where is juggling shop a thing?
        
             | wkjagt wrote:
             | I am not the person you're asking, but they were a thing in
             | The Netherlands at least. Not super common, but they did
             | exist. Typically they sold other related things too, like
             | diabolos, flower sticks, etc. This was a while ago, before
             | Amazon, when there were just a lot more different types of
             | shops. I am not sure they still still exist.
        
             | masfuerte wrote:
             | It was in the UK in 1993, about the time the web was
             | starting to take off. As the other commenter says, there
             | was a much wider variety of shops then.
        
         | CalChris wrote:
         | You can also pass clubs. In fact, at my local juggling meetup
         | (Castro Valley BART), it really breaks into two groups: passers
         | and numbers. Passers get together and pass. It's quite social.
         | Someone explains a group pattern and they work through it.
         | OTOH, numbers jugglers can juggle 5 or more clubs+balls. They
         | segregate themselves off and really only talk to each other.
         | We're in the same place but numbers only talk to other numbers.
        
         | latkin wrote:
         | I would agree that the proper next step after getting
         | comfortable with 3 balls is to learn 3 clubs, not 4 balls. It's
         | much easier to go 3 balls -> 3 clubs than 3 balls -> 4 balls.
         | So many fun things to do with clubs, and of course once you
         | learn clubs you have learned torches/knives which never fail to
         | impress.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Clubs do indeed look great. I like juggling with random
         | objects. It's quite hard, especially if different sizes/weights
         | but it looks really cool IMO because it's so unexpected and
         | doesn't need any special equipment. Plus you can do it
         | anywhere.
        
       | par wrote:
       | I assumed most software eng from the early aughts can all juggle.
        
       | odie5533 wrote:
       | Is it time to get good at darts yet?
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eotWyZv5c
        
       | _dain_ wrote:
       | The other's in Albert Hall
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | I thought the second line was about Goering.
        
       | Drupon wrote:
       | Is there anything HN related involved here other than autism?
        
         | flexagoon wrote:
         | HN guidelines say "anything that gratifies one's intellectual
         | curiosity" is on-topic for HN
        
           | Drupon wrote:
           | Don't be fatuous with me boy. It's clear that that criterion
           | could justify any number of things that are always
           | immediately flagged. In fact, it could justify _literally
           | anything_ being posted here.
        
             | floxy wrote:
             | Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or
             | sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some
             | interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news,
             | it's probably off-topic.
        
               | Drupon wrote:
               | You think there's nothing about "politics, or crime, or
               | sports, or celebrities" that "gratifies one's
               | intellectual curiosity" that isn't "evidence of some
               | interesting new phenomenon"?
               | 
               | This post is about a sport (juggling) and doesn't cover
               | "new phenomena". So what the hell are we doing here? Any
               | more rule nerd ass hall monitors want to drop another
               | irrelevant rule in here?
        
               | BubbleRings wrote:
               | Yeah, no juggling in class. Unless you brought enough for
               | everyone?
        
         | comrade1234 wrote:
         | lol. Thank you for the laugh.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | I'm there will you. I always laugh about how autism and SSRIs
           | are not for discussion here. It's too on the nose.
        
         | altacc wrote:
         | Go to a juggling club and you'll find that a Venn diagram of
         | juggler, nerd & technology has a lot of overlap.
        
           | wkjagt wrote:
           | For real? I am a juggling nerd, but didn't know that was a
           | thing. I gotta go find my people now.
        
         | wkjagt wrote:
         | Why autism?
        
       | alemwjsl wrote:
       | The first HN submission ever that got me to put down my device
       | and go outside, and probably going to get me hooked.
        
       | jubuff wrote:
       | Profoundly disagree with the author on skipping 6. It helped so
       | much with my 7.
       | 
       | I do agree on clubs though. They were as big of a revelation as
       | siteswap when I learned them and I'd highly recommend trying.
       | Most juggling clubs(accumulations of people, not object) have
       | loaner clubs and nice people willing to share theirs as well as
       | teach.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | Worst thing about juggling is that you get a very good instinct
       | to catch falling stuff, even if it's sharp and pointy.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | "A falling knife has no handle."
        
           | pizzafeelsright wrote:
           | Knives are surprisingly fun to juggle. Due to my pain
           | tolerance (or stupidity) I would throw knives up, catch them
           | by the blade (pinching) or using a soft hands, where I match
           | their falling speed, catch them on a finger tip while it
           | remains vertical. Also, I would find myself spinning a
           | folding blade end over end, and catching by the handle, based
           | upon the rotations (minus one because you flip from the sharp
           | end).
        
       | matznerd wrote:
       | I thought this post was going to be a metaphor about how most
       | people can barely handle 1 project, while some people need to
       | multiple projects for it to feel natural...
        
         | efilife wrote:
         | I really hoped it wouldn't. Too played out
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | I've wanted to code a VR game for juggling but never found time
       | for it.
       | 
       | Feels like it would be super-easy-to-code and probably would be
       | lucrative. Implement "slow down time" so people can practice
       | juggling in slow motion, add some other features like catch
       | radius and bias towards consistent height of throws and you've
       | got a great game!
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | I made a 2d game like this once for, of all things, Palm Pilot.
         | You could tap for the apex of each ball throw.
        
       | lamplightdev wrote:
       | I learnt to juggle with the help of this book:
       | https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/777103.The_Complete_J...,
       | all sorts of tips and tricks in there
        
       | ipince wrote:
       | > When I'm bored, I just whip out my balls and start having a
       | play. And people watch, and sometimes join in.
       | 
       | Nice.
       | 
       | (I'm sure the author did this intentionally)
        
         | boogieknite wrote:
         | definitely did. lots of schweddy balls style humor
        
       | sriram_malhar wrote:
       | Many of you might know of Noisebridge, a beloved hackerspace in
       | San Francisco. They had (have?) a juggling workshop every
       | saturday called "Juggling with Judy", taught by Judy Pinelli,
       | founder of the famed Pickle Family Circus (and a huge influence
       | on Cirque Du Soleil).
       | 
       | I had no idea how famous or influential she was. She first taught
       | us how to make our own juggling balls: snip the ends of a
       | balloon, fill with enough rice to feel comfortable in the hand,
       | then wrap that with another balloon to seal the rice in, then
       | snip the ends of the second balloon.
       | 
       | Then she went through the usual sequence: throw a ball, er,
       | balloon, from one hand to the next, then practice with two and so
       | on. By the end of that 2 hour session, we had got the essentials.
       | 
       | The remarkable thing about this workshop was that Judy was at an
       | advanced stage of multiple sclerosis at that point. She was
       | pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't
       | even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only
       | see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for
       | her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus
       | on the left hand, the right will follow".
       | 
       | After the 2 hour workshop, she'd go to Golden Gate park to teach
       | juggling. All for free. I feel extraordinarily privileged. She's
       | been my polestar in life.
        
         | flawn wrote:
         | Noisebridge is awesome. This illustrates beautifully what
         | humans can be capable of.
        
         | rhblake wrote:
         | Great story, thanks for sharing. Just a minor correction: it's
         | Judy Finelli, not Pinelli.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | what means "snip the ends of a balloon"? when I think of
         | balloons they are pretty large spheres for juggling
        
           | classic959 wrote:
           | If a balloon is made of a thin neck and a round body, you're
           | chopping the neck off near the bottom of the neck. You're
           | then left with a round rubber pouch for the contents (rice).
           | Use two balloons in opposite directions so the closed end of
           | the outer layer covers the opening of the inner layer.
           | 
           | Great for juggling balls - nice weight and very grippy.
        
             | lewispollard wrote:
             | I think the use of the word "ends" rather than "end" makes
             | it sound like you're making 2 snips on each balloon.
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | yeah that confused me too
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | But this means it's a tiny balloon? Almost hand sized
             | already?
        
               | rendall wrote:
               | Indeed. Do not blow up the balloon. Just use it as a
               | rubber pouch. If anything is still unclear, describe as
               | detailed as you can the difficulty you're visualizing.
        
               | classic959 wrote:
               | The technique I've used to fill a balloon with rice:
               | 
               | - Take a small plastic drinks bottle.
               | 
               | - Cut the bottom half off to make it like a funnel.
               | 
               | - Remove the lid, and stretch a balloon over the neck.
               | 
               | - Invert the half bottle so the balloon over the bottle-
               | neck is hanging underneath.
               | 
               | - When you tip some rice into the funnel, only a few
               | grains will fall into the uninflated balloon.
               | 
               | - Now put your mouth/cheeks against the open end of the
               | bottle/funnel and blow. This will partially inflate the
               | balloon, and all the rice will fall in. Done!
        
               | wkjagt wrote:
               | Balloons are pretty small before you inflate them, and
               | you're not inflating them, just stuffing them with rice.
        
               | throwaway290 wrote:
               | I feel stupid, thank you got explaining!
        
         | altacc wrote:
         | This is one of the nice things about the juggling community:
         | it's one of the open, sharing communities where people are
         | willing to freely share and teach. It's no cost/low cost entry.
         | The juggling community has been a really important part of my
         | life, so I see it as giving back to teach others.
        
         | alexpotato wrote:
         | > She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down,
         | and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair.
         | She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient
         | information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your
         | elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
         | 
         | I've both been a coach (paintball/martial arts) and been
         | coached (golf) and it really is wild how good your brain can
         | become at seeing the outcome or just a piece of the process and
         | then working backwards to a root cause.
         | 
         | I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you don't
         | actually see the collision. You see the after effects and then
         | figure out what happened by going backwards to what must have
         | occurred."
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | >> I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you
           | don't actually see the collision. You see the after effects
           | and then figure out what happened by going backwards to what
           | must have occurred."
           | 
           | I keep coming back to that. Nobody has ever directly seen
           | direct the force carrying particles, only their effects
           | (indirect evidence). The models make excellent predictions,
           | but I still feel like they're "wrong" in some sense.
        
             | bdamm wrote:
             | This is the only fact we know for certain in physics; we
             | know for sure that our existing models are incorrect. But
             | they sure are great at lots of stuff and correctly predict
             | lots of phenomenon so until someone can come up with a
             | better model they're likely to continue to be used widely!
        
           | CobrastanJorji wrote:
           | My favorite version of diagnosing a root cause from an
           | outcome was "Car Talk" on NPR, where somebody would call into
           | the Tappet Brothers's show and imitate the weird sound that
           | the car was making, and then the brothers would diagnose a
           | very specific car problem based on the secondhand
           | impersonation of a weird noise. I have no idea how accurate
           | their diagnoses actually were, but it always seemed like a
           | tremendously impressive trick.
        
         | frays wrote:
         | Great story about juggling, thanks.
        
         | mettamage wrote:
         | Noisebridge! I went there as a tourist! I visited SF (I'm from
         | Amsterdam), saw Noisebridge and felt right at home :)
        
       | kobieps wrote:
       | I'm currently learning the fountain pattern and it's cool to know
       | that it should only take about a month. After that though...
        
       | eagsalazar2 wrote:
       | Several years ago we had a juggling "craze" at my otherwise very
       | stodgy corporate office. We all juggled constantly on every
       | little break and several of us got pretty good at it. By the end
       | a few of us were doing harder 3-ball tricks like mills mess and
       | passing balls back and forth to each other. It was super fun.
       | Honestly while specific tips can help, I think it mainly comes
       | down to persistence and getting ideas from others, youtube, etc.
       | Some ideas will click, some won't. Doing it with friends everyday
       | helps too. It just takes time to get a really consistent throw
       | dialed in, especially under pressure, but once you do 3-ball gets
       | quite easy and then you can focus more on goofing around and
       | trying new things.
        
       | __mharrison__ wrote:
       | My high school AP calculus teacher required everyone in the class
       | to learn to juggle (3 balls) by the end of year to pass the
       | class.
       | 
       | Seemed annoying then.
       | 
       | Seems radical now.
        
         | fouc wrote:
         | Lol, he's probably not technically allowed to set that as a
         | requirement in most places I would guess. Funny side quest to
         | offer though.
        
       | latkin wrote:
       | This takes me back to my teenage juggling glory days. Truly the
       | golden years in hindsight.
       | 
       | I grew up in Silicon Valley in the late 80s/90s and learned to
       | juggle, as many people did back then, from the book "Juggling for
       | the Complete Klutz." As a kid I devoured almost every Klutz Press
       | book.
       | 
       | A product of Stanford people, Klutz had a small brick and mortar
       | store in Palo Alto. It sold all of their books, of course, but
       | also juggling equipment, magic props, and random fun stuff like
       | rubber chickens and fake corpse legs you could hang out the trunk
       | of your car. Absolute paradise for ~12 year old me.
       | 
       | But the best part was that they ran a weekly juggling club out on
       | the back deck area. Just show up and play. I learned a lot from
       | all of the kind folks who turned out for that. My mom would drop
       | me off every week, and I'd run out there excited to show the
       | older guys what I learned that week. I wasn't a prodigy or
       | anything but I was decent. Got to the point where I was juggling
       | 4 clubs and I could hang with the club passers if they kept the
       | pattern tame (and were skilled enough to catch my slop). Of
       | course I also got proficient at other juggling-adjacent stuff
       | like yo-yo, devil sticks, contact juggling... Just pure joy,
       | really a cherished memory.
       | 
       | I was at the shop enough that my friend and I ended up being
       | recruited to model for the 1998 edition of the Klutz Yo Yo book.
       | There are 2 photos of me in there, I think. I was pissed that my
       | friend was more photogenic and they ended up using way more of
       | his photos than mine.
        
       | globular-toast wrote:
       | I really enjoyed learning to juggle. My mum randomly brought a
       | juggling book back from a second hand shop. It probably sat on a
       | shelf for a year until one day my brother and I picked it up for
       | some reason. It also goes to show how important it is to have
       | access to lots of books. You never know when one might catch your
       | interest.
        
       | InfiniteLoup wrote:
       | Reading this thread makes me wonder if I'm the only one who
       | really tried to learn to juggle, only to fail even after a whole
       | month of brute-forcing it, while my partner at the time, who
       | started at my suggestion, managed it after 30 minutes! That was
       | 15 years ago...
        
       | neuroelectron wrote:
       | Juggling rats?
        
         | wkjagt wrote:
         | Slang for rationalists, apparently, according to another
         | comment.
        
       | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
       | > DO NOT JUST PASS THE SECOND BALL BETWEEN YOUR HANDS. This is a
       | common thing, as people are regularly taught it
       | 
       | People are _really_ regularly taught it? Who 's doing that
       | teaching?
       | 
       | I suspect a different cause: cartoons. Especially in older
       | animation, juggling was typically presented in the 'circle'
       | style, which is probably where people tended to pick up the
       | misconception. I guess that animation is a lot easier to produce.
       | 
       | See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAPkX11Bfu8
        
         | arcticfox wrote:
         | In my experience they're not taught it, it's instinctive. The
         | easiest way to get a free hand seems to be to hand a ball over
         | to your other hand directly. It makes sense too, it's
         | counterintuitive that it's much easier to throw the ball up and
         | over back.
        
         | robotguy wrote:
         | I grew up in the boonies back in the 80's. The only real
         | contact I had with juggling was probably cartoons like
         | described above. I really wanted to learn though and would walk
         | around the woods for hours trying to juggle oak galls in that
         | "circle style" only able to keep it up for a few seconds at a
         | time.
         | 
         | My first day at college, before classes started, I was in the
         | dorms. Everyone was getting to know each other, and I saw
         | someone juggling the right way. It instantly clicked. All the
         | hand-eye practice the 'wrong' way actually helped. That's why I
         | always tell people that the first thing I learned in college
         | was how to juggle.
        
       | jigglyblob wrote:
       | Tim Kelly's 3 ball juggling is still my favourite of all time.
       | You won't regret watching him. I've literally never seen anyone
       | juggle this well. Always been such an inspiration:
       | https://youtu.be/q37vo62psGA?si=r_Kh4RWl7HTAu4Mq
        
       | cft wrote:
       | I went to school with a math genius who participated in
       | international math Olympiads. Curiously he had no problem
       | juggling multiple balls - and nobody taught him.
        
       | wkjagt wrote:
       | Juggling has a very special place in my heart. I met my wife
       | through juggling. We were both staying at a youth hostel in
       | Ireland, and the owner introduced us to each other because she'd
       | seen us both juggling, and said we should juggle together. She
       | was way better than me. She juggled with clubs, burning torches
       | and knives, so yeah, life was never the same after that.
        
       | 1dom wrote:
       | Juggling is something I've done on and off all my life and every
       | time I ever see any writing about it, it doesn't at all capture
       | how juggling fits with me. Every time I read about it, I feel
       | like I'm doing something wrong. I know I'm not, but I thought I'd
       | share my views in case it helps someone want to pickup juggling
       | in a different way.
       | 
       | Most writing on juggling talks about moves and repetition. You'll
       | see the same terminology and approaches everwhere, site swap
       | notation, cascades, messes, 1 hand, 2 hand, claws etc.
       | 
       | This can sometimes give the impression that when you're juggling,
       | you're basically doing a move, or repeating a motion, or
       | following a script, like being able to perform the specific move
       | is the skill and achievement itself, but it's really, really not.
       | 
       | I think it's better to think of the balls as instruments. When
       | you're reading and learning about juggling moves like cascades
       | and messes and clawing, you're reading about chords on that
       | instrument. If all you know is how to play individual chords, and
       | the names of the chords and theoretical and technical ways to
       | represent the chords, you're missing the point of knowing how to
       | play an instrument.
       | 
       | Most of the time when I'm juggling, I'm in the same creative and
       | expressive mindset and headspace as I am if I'm soloing on drums.
       | Every move is a different move between a bunch of different moves
       | based on wherever my mood takes me. It feels good and allegedly
       | look impressive too.
       | 
       | I've tried to learn keyboard/piano so, so, so many times and it
       | just doesn't stick with me, I struggle to retain the theory, I
       | can't get the intuition, I never find myself in the zone after
       | years and years of attempts and lessons. Drumming was the
       | opposite though, I felt comfortable on it within months of having
       | my kit with very, very little theoretical background. I consider
       | myself a theoretical person, but juggling - like drumming - seems
       | to be one of those few things for me where the theory makes it
       | worse/harder/less intuitive/less fun for me.
        
       | tnel77 wrote:
       | This made me chuckle:
       | 
       | >>TLDR: A complete guide to juggling, from zero to siteswap
       | notation, by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
       | 
       | >>by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
       | 
       | I'm not sure if I'd laugh or be amazed at someone juggling at a
       | nightclub. I guess it really depends on how well received the act
       | is by their target audience (aka can a man pick up women via
       | juggling?).
        
         | wavemode wrote:
         | > can a man pick up women via juggling
         | 
         | Uhh, no. Regular people don't care the slightest about
         | juggling. It definitely shouldn't be learned for that purpose
         | lol
        
         | Mawr wrote:
         | > aka can a man pick up women via juggling?
         | 
         | Sure: "Hey babe, wanna juggle my balls?". Works every time.
        
       | jblakey wrote:
       | I picked up a copy of the Klutz book back in the 1980s. I think
       | it was their first publication, and it got me started. Their YoYo
       | book was also a fun time.
        
         | marconey wrote:
         | I had both of these, and learned to juggle from Klutz
         | 
         | I recently bought a new copy for my son, but it hasn't clicked
         | for him yet
        
       | scotty79 wrote:
       | I sure can't. After few throws I'll drop it. My body just gets
       | bored of doing the same exact thing even just a handful of times.
       | Same problem with exercise. Even zero balls sounds unbearable for
       | more than 15 seconds.
        
       | hybirdss wrote:
       | six balls from zero coordination is just aimbot energy
        
       | boogieknite wrote:
       | casual 3 ball juggler who usually juggles fruit bc its fun to
       | have a little pressure. might make a mess or ruin perfectly good
       | food. my question:
       | 
       | sometimes when im really grooving ill have a ton of backspin.
       | like a finger roll in basketball. is that bad technique or do
       | pros do that too?
        
       | csours wrote:
       | The fun thing about learning to juggle is that no one can teach
       | you how to juggle, but they can teach you how to teach yourself
       | how to juggle.
        
         | gbacon wrote:
         | Flight instructors say something similar, that we're just here
         | to keep you from breaking the airplane while you teach yourself
         | to fly.
        
       | mmaurizi wrote:
       | For those who want to find other jugglers to practice with, there
       | are lots of juggling clubs all over:
       | https://dev.juggle.org/events/clubs.php
       | 
       | In my experience most folks go to clubs in order to do pass
       | juggling with others (or because it's a nice indoor space with
       | high ceilings), but typically folks are very happy to spare some
       | time to help beginners learn
        
       | rconti wrote:
       | Huh. I thought there was going to be something insightful about
       | one ball juggling specifically, but I didn't see it in reading or
       | searching.
       | 
       | I haven't tried just 1 ball, but I find 2 to be a lot harder than
       | 3. (which, I suppose, is why I was expecting something insightful
       | about why it would be difficult to juggle just one ball).
        
       | GMoromisato wrote:
       | Many years ago I saw Penn & Teller and Penn Jillette talked about
       | how juggling flaming sticks or knives isn't that impressive
       | because they are perfectly balanced for juggling.
       | 
       | Instead, he took three large whiskey bottles of different shapes
       | and sizes. On stage, he broke the bottom of each bottle. They
       | came out all sharp, jagged, and uneven. He then proceeded to
       | juggle three of them. I think he got only a few rounds before he
       | was forced to drop them.
       | 
       | I don't think he does that anymore.
        
       | dack wrote:
       | it's a cool article but would immensely help from gifs or videos
       | to go along with the explanation
        
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       (page generated 2026-04-13 23:01 UTC)