[HN Gopher] Muse Spark: Scaling towards personal superintelligence
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Muse Spark: Scaling towards personal superintelligence
        
       https://meta.ai/
        
       Author : chabons
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2026-04-08 16:01 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ai.meta.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ai.meta.com)
        
       | moab wrote:
       | "Muse Spark is available now, and Contemplating mode will be
       | rolling out gradually in meta.ai."
       | 
       | How does one get their hands on these models? They are not open-
       | source, right? I go to meta.ai, but it's just a chat interface---
       | no equivalent to codex or claud code? Can you use this through
       | OpenCode? Is meta charging for model access, or is the gathering
       | of chat data a sufficiently large tithe?
        
         | monkeydust wrote:
         | TBD it seems. So far the only explained usage pattern is
         | through a Meta product (Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram).
        
           | moab wrote:
           | So to verify their claims and see how strong these models
           | are, the answer is "believe us"?
           | 
           | Note: I'm expressing some skepticism here largely due to how
           | recent rollouts from Meta flopped. Sincerely hoping that they
           | do better this time around!
        
             | nemomarx wrote:
             | I assume the answer is try it out in the chat mode? You
             | could run your usual benches through that right
        
         | pstuart wrote:
         | I appreciate that they build this stuff for their own benefit,
         | but I don't want to feed even more of my private info.
         | Hopefully the models will become public or lead to equivalent
         | models from other sources.
        
         | meetpateltech wrote:
         | "It will be available in private preview via API to select
         | partners, and we hope to open-source future versions of the
         | model."
         | 
         | from Facebook Newsroom:
         | https://about.fb.com/news/2026/04/introducing-muse-spark-met...
        
           | tempaccount420 wrote:
           | I can't think of any "select partners" that would want to use
           | this non-SOTA model. Just put it on OpenRouter.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | If Microsoft is a select partner, maybe they could shove it
             | into Copilot for VS or something, but yeah, I'm wondering
             | the same, maybe Apple could be one of their partners too?
        
         | mark_l_watson wrote:
         | That would be my question also. I like it when companies have
         | easy to sign up for, pay as you go models. Being able to buy $5
         | worth of tokens and get an API key - in less than a few minutes
         | - is ideal.
        
       | warthog wrote:
       | Hoping the benchmarks are correct this time...
        
         | htrp wrote:
         | Anyone done vibe testing at meta ai yet?
        
       | ddp26 wrote:
       | The second paragraph starts "Muse Spark is the first step on our
       | scaling ladder and the first product of a ground-up overhaul of
       | our AI efforts. To support further scaling, we are making
       | strategic investments..."
       | 
       | This article is about Meta, not about the user. Who signs off on
       | these? Is the intended audience other people at Meta, not the
       | user?
        
         | tjkrusinski wrote:
         | The article is published primarily to signal to the market that
         | Meta is serious in its efforts to compete in building frontier
         | ai models.
         | 
         | They want to 1) attract talent, 2) tell wall street they can
         | play in this space as well, 3) help employees feel the company
         | is moving in the right direction.
         | 
         | A frontier LLM doesn't apply to their core consumer products.
        
           | Lihh27 wrote:
           | the blog is the product. investor deck posted as a tech
           | launch
        
         | conradkay wrote:
         | Stock up 9% today, very pleasant for Zuck if you do the math on
         | his net worth :)
        
           | hungryhobbit wrote:
           | I mean, kinda? It's not like Zuck is selling his stock
           | tomorrow, so daily fluctuations in stock price don't really
           | affect him.
        
       | zurfer wrote:
       | > Muse Spark is available today at meta.ai and the Meta AI app.
       | We're opening a private API preview to select users.
        
         | m4r1k wrote:
         | So no Open-weight .. why one would choose Muse Spark instead of
         | Anthropic, OpenAI, or Google models all featuring from good to
         | amazing harness?
        
       | Artgor wrote:
       | I'm cautiously waiting for the feedback from the first users.
       | Meta has produced a lot of great models (LLama), maybe this is a
       | comeback... but I'm cautious, as the jump in the quality is
       | almost too high.
       | 
       | Also, I think people aren't used that using such models requires
       | meta.ai or meta ai app.
        
         | solenoid0937 wrote:
         | My Meta friends say it's benchmaxxed af
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | We used to call this "overfitting," but I suppose everything
           | has to be maxxed now. Fitmaxxed?
        
         | conradkay wrote:
         | It doesn't seem benchmaxxed, ARC AGI 2 score is quite bad
         | (42.5%, GPT 5.4 is 76.1%) and coding is okay. But maybe this is
         | the best Meta can do even benchmaxxing
         | 
         | The impressive part is multimodality, very plausible since
         | there's less focus there by other labs (especially Anthropic)
        
         | dbgrman wrote:
         | Given llama 4 mucked up benchmark numbers, I'd take spark
         | announcement with a many grains of salt.
        
       | khalic wrote:
       | Oh good, if they built a lab, I'm sure they took the time the
       | precisely define what they mean by super intelligence? Right? ...
        
         | 52-6F-62 wrote:
         | If this is super intelligence, then it follows we must all be
         | super-duper intelligence.
        
         | gardnr wrote:
         | It's personal...
        
       | gallerdude wrote:
       | This would have been an amazing release 6 months ago. But the
       | industry moves so fast, this is a trite release. Maybe it's best
       | for Meta to sell their superintelligence division. I don't think
       | Zuck's vision is particularly compelling.
        
         | gordonhart wrote:
         | A new model comparable (ish) to the Claude/Gemini/GPT flagships
         | is a big deal for the industry and for Meta even if it doesn't
         | set the new frontier.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | Their new Contemplating mode gives this model a Deep Research
           | ability (akin to existing models from GPT and Gemini) that
           | might make it quite comparable to the just-announced Mythos.
        
             | solenoid0937 wrote:
             | Mythos is a much bigger pre train, Contemplating is not the
             | same thing.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | > Mythos is a much bigger pre train
               | 
               | Do we have data to substantiate that claim?
        
               | solenoid0937 wrote:
               | It's pretty common knowledge. Spud is the only other PT
               | comparable with Mythos.
               | 
               | Both Spud and Mythos can also scale via inference time
               | compute.
               | 
               | Meta simply did not have enough compute online, long
               | enough ago, to have a similar PT.
        
             | temp_praneshp wrote:
             | > might make it quite comparable to the just-announced
             | Mythos
             | 
             | Do we have data to substantiate that claim?
        
           | gallerdude wrote:
           | I'm not sure. If it was open source, certainly. But 4th place
           | doesn't really matter if you have nothing different to add.
        
             | datadrivenangel wrote:
             | Fourth place means you're not reliant on any of the
             | external providers for internal AI use, which is important
             | for organizational health and negotiating with those other
             | providers.
        
               | rubyn00bie wrote:
               | I'm not sure it's useful for negotiating, the capex to
               | build it was surely orders of magnitude more than it
               | would cost to just use one of the other frontier models.
               | 
               | It's like someone negotiating by saying, "I'll waste even
               | MORE money to build something worse if you don't give me
               | a deal."
               | 
               | I'm not discounting there may be other advantages to
               | doing it. I just don't think negotiating is one.
        
             | lairv wrote:
             | If the model is truly on par with Opus 4.6/Gemini 3.1/GPT
             | 5.4 (beyond benchmarks) this still puts MSL in the frontier
             | lab category, which is no small feat given that they pretty
             | much rebooted last year
             | 
             | Many labs aren't able to keep up with the frontier, xAI,
             | Mistral
        
           | blahblaher wrote:
           | Why would you use this instead of the other more proven
           | models? Unless it's significantly cheaper. The general
           | population mostly wants it free, and the more professional
           | users are willing to pay for good/better responses.
        
             | NitpickLawyer wrote:
             | You wouldn't use this as an API. You would "use" this
             | inside the meta properties. Have a shop on fb marketplace?
             | Now you have copy, images, support, chat, translations,
             | erp, esp, fps and all the other acronyms :) and so on for
             | your mom and pop shop @200$/mo. Probably worse than say
             | claude/gemini but it's right there, one button away. "Click
             | here to upgrade to AI++" or something.
        
               | gallerdude wrote:
               | But rolling your own can't be that much cheaper than
               | buying it from a leading lab. Especially when you
               | consider the amount of spending on datacenters.
        
               | hnav wrote:
               | leading labs are going to be tightening the screws.
               | Otherwise why not just run the entire company on a public
               | cloud?
        
             | gordonhart wrote:
             | I won't use it, but I'm excited to see it for the same
             | reason why I'm excited to see a near-frontier open-source
             | release: more competition pushes prices down and reduces
             | monopoly/cartel risk. I won't use Muse or Grok or GLM at
             | this point but they're good for the ecosystem.
        
         | dgellow wrote:
         | I never understood why meta decided to join the race. They
         | don't sell compute like Google or Microsoft. Why not let others
         | do the hard work and integrate their LLMs in your systems if
         | needed? I assume it's because they have Instagram, Facebook,
         | WhatsApp, Thread data and feel they should be the ones using
         | them for training, but it's really not obvious how having a
         | frontier AI lab benefits their business
        
           | gallerdude wrote:
           | I'm sure there's more to it than this, but it feels like Zuck
           | has pet interests like VR and now AI.
        
             | alex1138 wrote:
             | But no account support, that's boring
             | 
             | Or any quality control (people missing posts)
             | 
             | Or banning the people who should be banned while leaving
             | everyone else alone
             | 
             | This is Zuck: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4151433
             | or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10791198
        
           | yoz-y wrote:
           | AI NPCs to fill in the empty Metaverse?
        
           | awestroke wrote:
           | Because Zuck has chronic FOMO, he's said as much himself
        
           | zeroonetwothree wrote:
           | But then how will Zuck win the billionaire dick measuring
           | contest?
        
           | chairmansteve wrote:
           | Pumps up the stock price.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Zuck is trying to convince himself he's good, and not just
           | lucky.
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | you dont understand why zuck, who paid $1B for instagram when
           | they had no revenue and 7 employees because he is paranoid
           | about platform shifts, decided to join the race for (what is
           | seeming highly possibly) the biggest platform shift in human
           | history?
        
             | oceansky wrote:
             | He also tried and failed to buy Snapchat, and then copied
             | their feature on all their big products: Instagram,
             | Facebook and even WhatsApp.
        
             | prodigycorp wrote:
             | The way you put it, I understand it less. lol
        
           | observationist wrote:
           | Adtech Money. They've got GPUs, they've got the
           | infrastructure, and they've got the advertisement platform,
           | and the point is getting AI that can exploit the adtech and
           | create a flywheel effect, maximizing return from the data
           | they collect from Insta, WhatsApp, Facebook, etc.
           | 
           | It's not just about LLMs, it's about being able to model
           | consumers and markets and psychology and so on. Meta is also
           | big in the manipulation side of things, any sort of cynical
           | technological exploitation of humans you can imagine but that
           | is _technically_ legal, they 're doing it for profit.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I think they just want to be a winner in the "next thing."
           | They hit social networking, but missed mobile operating
           | systems and didn't compellingly win at social media.
           | Eventually an ambitious person with a bazillion dollars wants
           | a clear win, right?
        
           | eldenring wrote:
           | Because there's a realistic chance this is the only important
           | software technology moving forward, and commoditizes Metas's
           | entire business which is software.
        
             | dgellow wrote:
             | Meta's business is human attention, human connections, and
             | all derived data. They can use AIs for their systems, but
             | the question is why do they feel the need to spend billions
             | on training and running their own frontier model
        
           | chermi wrote:
           | You basically have to be involved if you're meta. Even if
           | there's only 5% chance this AI stuff is as disruptive as the
           | labs claim it is, you can't afford to miss out. Even if
           | you're lagging frontier, you must develop the competency
           | internally. Otherwise you ignored a 5% chance of total
           | annihilation, probably even exposing you to shareholder
           | lawsuits.
        
           | KaiserPro wrote:
           | A few things:
           | 
           | 1) meta was doing this at scale before openAI
           | 
           | 2) decent ML is critical to catagorising content at scale,
           | the more accurate and fast the category, the finer the
           | recommendations can be (ie instead of woman, outside as a tag
           | for a video, woman, age, hair colour, location, subjects in
           | view, main subject of video, video style) doing that as fast
           | as possible with as little energy as possible is mission
           | critical
           | 
           | 3) The llama leak basically evaporated the moat around openAI
           | who _could_ have become a competitor
           | 
           | 4) for the AR stuff, all of these models (and visual models)
           | are required to make the platform work. They also need
           | complete ownership so that it can be distilled to make it run
           | on tiny hardware
           | 
           | 5) dick swinging
           | 
           | 6) they genuinely want to become a industrial behemoth, so
           | robots, hardware, etc are now all in scope.
        
           | vinni2 wrote:
           | From what I heard Meta is spending hundreds of millions each
           | month in Claude credits for developers. So that's a huge
           | saving if they have own models that match Opus.
        
             | spindump8930 wrote:
             | Spending tons of money on Claude and the recent token
             | benchmarks came WELL after Meta's huge investments in
             | compute infrastructure for AI as well as the long history
             | of language model development inside science divisions at
             | the company.
        
           | addandsubtract wrote:
           | To download all those torrents, obviously.
        
           | aylmao wrote:
           | First and most importantly is the fact they have a lot of
           | very valuable data they wouldn't want to siphon to a
           | competitor. This data is a key strategic asset in the space
           | where they do business.
           | 
           | Secondly though, I think it has to do with the fact Meta is
           | big enough to worry about vertical integration and full
           | control of their business.
           | 
           | The whole reason they've been trying to make AR/VR happen for
           | over a decade now is the assumption of a worst case and best
           | case scenario. The worst case is Apple and Google wants them
           | gone. This isn't as far fetched as it seems, Google has
           | historically been Meta's biggest competitor and even tried to
           | release its own social network back when Meta was threatening
           | them. If either pulls Meta apps from their respective stores,
           | it'd be an immense blow to Meta; their whole trillion-dollar
           | business depends on competitor's platforms.
           | 
           | Meta tried making inroads into the phone business but failed;
           | it is a very crowded market after all. So they changed their
           | strategy. Instead of playing catch-up, they'd invent "the
           | next iPhone" and be the first to a brand new market. This is
           | the best case scenario; they invent a new platform where they
           | can be dominant from day 1 and stop depending on competitor's
           | hardware, not only removing that risk factor for them, but
           | also unlocking a new market they can control.
           | 
           | AI ties into all this because it appears to be key for this
           | next platform to happen. You will communicate with these
           | smart glasses via voice, hand gestures, or subtle movements
           | that a model will have to interpret. The features that could
           | make them stand out as more than just a screen on your face
           | are all AI related; object detection, world understanding,
           | context awareness, etc. If all this were done via a 3rd party
           | Meta would effectively be back on square one: a competitor
           | could easily yank away its model access, or sell it to a
           | competitor. Meta would be again at the mercy of others.
           | 
           | Compared to other big-tech players, I think it's easy to see
           | how Meta is in a riskier position. There's little Google or
           | Microsoft can do to kill the iPhone. There's little Apple or
           | Google can do to kill Amazon's online store. There's little
           | Amazon or Apple can do to kill Microsoft's business deals.
           | Google and Meta are primarily in the business of capturing
           | people's data, attention, and selling ads, and both Google
           | and Apple could do quite some damage to Meta. Beyond
           | expanding it, it's important for them to invest in ways to
           | protect their money-printing machine.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | LLMs/Chat-based systems will reach a point where Facebook,
           | WhatsApp, Threads, Instagram, etc. are all unnecessary. The
           | idea of opening a browser or a specific app to do a thing
           | will seem antiquated. You can do it all with your chat-based
           | agent. Meta wants to be part of that.
        
             | operatingthetan wrote:
             | I don't think everyone only wants to talk to machines going
             | forward...?
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | I don't want to do it now. But that seems to be where we
               | are being headed, like lemmings running for the cliff.
        
             | dgellow wrote:
             | Sure but they have the platforms, they don't need their own
             | frontier models for that
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | The platforms will be irrelevant at some point. "Posting
               | to Facebook" won't be a thing.
        
           | bachmeier wrote:
           | > I never understood why meta decided to join the race.
           | 
           | I can think of at least two reasons. Price and
           | customizability. If they train their own models on their own
           | data, they potentially have a better model at a better price,
           | and they're not at the mercy of Anthropic's decisions when
           | they decide to raise prices. Additionally, if you use someone
           | else's model, you use it the way they create it and permit
           | you to use it. In a couple years, who has any idea how these
           | models are used. Arguably, a company the size of Meta should
           | be in control of their AI models.
        
           | storus wrote:
           | Only thanks to Meta we have competitive local LLMs. Without
           | LLama nothing decent would have been released. Commoditize
           | your complements in action.
        
         | throwaw12 wrote:
         | > I don't think Zuck's vision is particularly compelling.
         | 
         | But he has to do it anyways, otherwise Meta can be disrupted
         | easily.
         | 
         | Google, Apple has hardware, distribution channels for their
         | products
         | 
         | Amazon has the marketplace and cloud
         | 
         | Microsoft has enterprise and cloud
         | 
         | Meta is always looking for ways to stay afloat
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Meta has 3.5 billion daily active users
        
             | throwaw12 wrote:
             | and has competitors like: TikTok, SnapChat, YouTube,
             | Netflix, X, HBO, Amazon Prime, all fighting for the
             | attention time.
             | 
             | They are worried something like Sora can disrupt them
             | quickly
        
       | chrsw wrote:
       | So Meta is not releasing open source models anymore?
        
       | sidcool wrote:
       | Will experiment with the model. But I am scared of sharing any
       | information with the Zuck ecosystem.
        
       | toddmorey wrote:
       | Question: since they've rebooted their approach to AI... have
       | they given up on open models? There's no mention of open source
       | or open weights or access to the models beyond their hosted
       | services.
        
         | thegeomaster wrote:
         | Alexandr Wang on Twitter [0] mentioned open source plans:
         | 
         | "this is step one. bigger models are already in development
         | with infrastructure scaling to match. private api preview open
         | to select partners today, with plans to open-source future
         | versions. incredibly proud of the MSL team. excited for what's
         | to come!"
         | 
         | https://x.com/alexandr_wang/status/2041909388852748717
        
           | prodigycorp wrote:
           | So the answer is: no. lol. Remember Llama 4 Behemoth, and how
           | we were supposed to get more great models from it?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | This may be too large to run locally anyway. Maybe they will
         | distill down some smaller open versions later.
        
       | OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
       | The only benchmark they show against SOTA models is in bioweapons
       | refusal.
       | 
       | Edit: nvm I can't read, regular benchmarks against SOTA are there
        
       | santiagobasulto wrote:
       | This looks like a very interesting model and very promising,
       | especially after llama lost so much ground recently. I hope they
       | release the weights
        
       | visioninmyblood wrote:
       | https://meta.ai/ this is where you can try it seems like the API
       | is not publicly accessable yet. I feel they are very late to the
       | game and do not show value to customers over other models.
        
         | p_stuart82 wrote:
         | late isn't the problem. private preview api and no reason to
         | switch. that's just another hosted model
        
       | throwaw12 wrote:
       | How is that Meta spent so much money for talent and hardware, but
       | the model barely matches Opus 4.6?
       | 
       | Especially, looking at these numbers after Claude Mythos, feels
       | like either Anthropic has some secret sauce, or everyone else is
       | dumber compared to the talent Anthropic has
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | > has some secret sauce
         | 
         | Yup, it's called test-time compute. Mythos is described as
         | plenty slower than Opus, enough to seriously annoy users trying
         | to use it for quick-feedback-loop agentic work. It is most
         | properly compared with GPT Pro, Gemini DeepThink or this latest
         | model's "Contemplating" mode. Otherwise you're just not
         | comparing like for like.
        
           | throwaw12 wrote:
           | > it's called test-time compute.
           | 
           | Why can't others easily replicate it?
        
             | coder68 wrote:
             | I have not delved into the theory yet but it seems that the
             | smaller open-source models do this already to an extent.
             | They have less parameters, but spend much more time/tokens
             | reasoning, as a way to close the performance gap. If you
             | look at "tokens per problem" on https://swe-rebench.com/ it
             | seems to be the case at least.
        
         | strulovich wrote:
         | Meta did a bunch of mistakes, and look like Zuckerberg spent a
         | lot of money on talent and made big swings to change it (that
         | happened about a year ago)
         | 
         | I think it's unrealistic to expect them to come back from that
         | pit to the top in one year, but I wouldn't rule them out
         | getting there with more time. That's a possible future. They
         | have the money and Zuckerberg's drive at the helm. It can go a
         | long way.
        
         | solenoid0937 wrote:
         | It's benchmaxxed.
         | 
         | If they _actually_ matched Opus 4.6 on such a short timeline,
         | it would have been mighty impressive. (Keep in mind this is a
         | new lab and they are prohibited from doing distills.)
        
           | throwaw12 wrote:
           | how do you know it's benchmaxxed?
        
             | solenoid0937 wrote:
             | Friends at Meta with access to the model + personal
             | experience at Meta.
             | 
             | Meta's performance process is essentially "show good
             | numbers or you're out." So guess what people do when they
             | don't have good numbers? They fudge them. Happens all
             | across the company.
        
             | prodigycorp wrote:
             | meta's benchmaxing tendencies are well known. llama4 was
             | mega benchmaxxed, there's nothing that suggests to me that
             | meta's culture has changed.
        
               | spindump8930 wrote:
               | Re: changes, there's been enormous turnover in AI
               | organizations, and in theory this one was developed by a
               | "new" org. Whether that means less or more benchmaxxing
               | is anyone's guess.
        
             | luma wrote:
             | For one, they aren't using the latest version of many of
             | the benchmarks. eg, ARC-AGI 2 and not 3, etc.
        
         | impulser_ wrote:
         | It's not even on par with Sonnet. It's on par with open source
         | models and it not even open source and sit behind a private
         | preview API.
         | 
         | Might as well not release anything.
        
         | username223 wrote:
         | Facebook is working with the talent that can't find a job at
         | some other company. It doesn't surprise me they ship
         | mediocrity.
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | Matching Opus 4.6 would be pretty good? It's the SOTA actually
         | available model
        
           | reissbaker wrote:
           | Muse Spark doesn't even match GLM-5.1 on most benchmarks. And
           | GLM is open source!
        
         | CuriouslyC wrote:
         | Anthropic has just been focused on coding/terminal work longer
         | mostly, and their PRO tier model is coding focused, unlike the
         | GPT and Gemini pro tier models which have been optimized for
         | science.
         | 
         | Their whole "training the LLM to be a person" technique
         | probably contributes to its pleasant conversational behavior,
         | and making its refusals less annoying (GPT 5.2+ got obnoxiously
         | aligned), and also a bit to its greater autonomy.
         | 
         | Overall they don't have any real moat, but they are more
         | focused than their competition (and their marketing team is
         | slaying).
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | Autonomy for agentic workflows has nothing to do with
           | "replying more like a person", you have to refine the model
           | for it quite specifically. All the large players are trying
           | to do that, it's not really specific to Anthropic. It may be
           | true however that their higher focus on a "Constitutional
           | AI"/RLAIF approach makes it a bit easier to align the model
           | to desirable outcomes when acting agentically.
        
             | CuriouslyC wrote:
             | You think it has nothing to do with it. Even they only have
             | a loose understanding of exactly the final results of
             | trying to treat Claude like a real being in terms of how
             | the model acts.
             | 
             | For example, Claude has a "turn evil in response to
             | reinforced reward hacking" behavior which is a fairly
             | uniquely Claude thing (as far as I've seen anyhow), and
             | very likely the result of that attempt to imbue personhood.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Until you actually try the model itself, assume any benchmark
       | presented to you as being part of the marketing material of the
       | model, as it is not independently verified and completely biased.
       | 
       | The same is true with any other model, unless otherwise stated.
       | 
       | In the next few days, we'll see who Meta has paid to promote this
       | model on social media.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | This really reinforces the idea that the AI race and the Railroad
       | Mania of the 19th century are very similar.
       | 
       | So many different companies are going to have similarly powerful
       | ai that there will be no moat around it and it will be cheap.
       | They will never earn their investment back.
        
         | dist-epoch wrote:
         | The moat is in the compute and the energy access.
         | 
         | And further down the line in chips, which is why Elon is
         | building a fab now.
         | 
         | There are plenty of capable models on HuggingFace, yet I have
         | no way of running them.
        
           | khalic wrote:
           | Give it a few years, or month. Tiny models are getting
           | outrageously good
        
             | mobattah wrote:
             | Exactly. We'll see the cost of AI continue to drop.
             | 
             | I was saying this for years about Tesla's FSD - they
             | finally had to give in and drop the price to stay
             | competitive.
        
               | dbt00 wrote:
               | FSD still sucks ass compared to Waymo.
        
             | spprashant wrote:
             | I wonder if this is why the tech cartel is buying up all
             | the hardware?
             | 
             | If the average user gets convinced they could run LLMs for
             | cheap at home, you cannot trap users in your walled garden
             | anymore.
        
               | QQ00 wrote:
               | They actually need it because the demand is higher than
               | expected from consumers. And because they need a moat
               | since every big corporation trying to capture that market
               | too, they need the moat for the biggest compute and
               | energy they can get.
               | 
               | Also businesses is were the money at, not regular
               | consumers (especially tech-savvy folk who run models
               | locally).
        
           | cedws wrote:
           | That fab will never be delivered. In five years you might see
           | the manufacturing equivalent of a person dancing in spandex.
        
             | QQ00 wrote:
             | The only company that musk own and actually achieve
             | something is spacex. so I believe you. He likes to hype
             | things beyond what is actually possible.
             | 
             | spacex is engineering masterpiece with how they
             | revolutionize the space industry.
        
           | nutjob2 wrote:
           | > which is why Elon is building a fab now
           | 
           | At least he says he's doing that. It doesn't really make
           | sense since you're not going to achieve an advanced node from
           | a standing start in a practical time frame and cost.
           | 
           | Sounds like more Musk flavored vapor.
        
             | re-thc wrote:
             | > It doesn't really make sense since you're not going to
             | achieve an advanced node from a standing start in a
             | practical time frame and cost.
             | 
             | They already announced a partnership with Intel.
        
               | nutjob2 wrote:
               | Oh the irony.
        
         | cheriot wrote:
         | I suspect this is the real reason behind Anthropic limiting
         | subscriptions to their own products and keeping API prices
         | several times higher than comparable models. Applications more
         | sticky than API users and less technical users more sticky than
         | programmers (ie Cowork more sticky than Code).
        
           | netcan wrote:
           | Anthropic generally seem more into living within market
           | discipline and market signals of some sort. Products with
           | margins, even if it's sort of irrelevant considering R&D
           | costs and capital inflow.
           | 
           | That said, there's nothing like the real thing.
           | 
           | The risk is something like the railroad bubble _and_ the
           | dotcom. Over-investement, circular revenue _and_ a timeline
           | that doesn 't work.
           | 
           | Or, maybe it'll work out.
        
         | holoduke wrote:
         | Nah. Everybody is talking about ai. Everybody is using it. It's
         | by far the most popular new tool human beings are using
         | currently. As popular as mobile phones or spoons. And maybe as
         | disruptive as the steam engines. AI companies are becoming the
         | largest software companies on the planet. Everything points
         | into that direction. Trillions of dollars are waiting in the
         | market to be collected.
        
           | Eufrat wrote:
           | Based on what? A lot of this is vibes and FOMO; just like any
           | economic bubble.
           | 
           | There is no objective evidence of anything you've said. It
           | isn't even clear if AI has contributed positively to global
           | economic growth. It reminds me a lot of the late 90s and the
           | dot-com mania. Slapping a domain on a commercial would make
           | your stock go up even if there was no substance to any of it.
           | 
           | The real shame is this mania drowns out serious, practical
           | use cases because when the bubble collapses, the market will
           | throw the baby out with the bathwater.
        
             | olelele wrote:
             | You can do anything at zombo.com!
        
             | atleastoptimal wrote:
             | How can you look at Anthropic's revenue chart and claim
             | it's just vibes
        
               | Eufrat wrote:
               | 1. Revenue is not profit; you can make $10 billion by
               | spending $20 billion.
               | 
               | 2. It is not clear how they are getting their numbers.
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | What people seem to miss is that they don't need to get the
         | investment back from people, they will get it from machines.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Could you explain how you think that's going to work? Because
           | to me it seems that until machines have bank accounts,
           | there's no money for them to get.
        
           | girvo wrote:
           | People are the one with money, though, at the end of the day.
        
       | creddit wrote:
       | Ran some of my internal benchmarks against this and I'm very
       | unimpressed. I don't think this moves them into the OAI v
       | Anthropic v Gemini conversation at all.
       | 
       | Major analytical errors in their response to multiple of my
       | technical questions.
        
         | creddit wrote:
         | Playing with this some more and it's actively not good. Just
         | basic mathematical errors riddling responses. Did some basic
         | adversarial testing where its responses are analyzed by Gemini
         | and Gemini is finding basic math errors across every relatively
         | (relative to Opus, Gemini or GPT can handle) simple ask I make.
         | Yikes.
        
           | smlacy wrote:
           | Post actual results, make a blog post. Don't just say "this
           | sucks" without tangible evidence.
           | 
           | Otherwise you're doomed to "sample size of one" level of
           | relevance.
        
             | thorum wrote:
             | I have the opposite experience: random HN/Reddit comments
             | saying "this sucks" or "whoa this is a huge improvement"
             | are the only benchmark that means anything. Standard
             | benchmarks are all gamed and don't capture the complexity
             | of the real world.
        
         | mliker wrote:
         | It's quite good for multimodal cases that 3 billion people
         | would use it for though it lags in scientific areas
        
       | oliver236 wrote:
       | so glad its beating all the others on bioweapons refusal. this is
       | what i most wanted out of the latest SOTA model
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Zuck has a lot more experience being summoned before Congress
         | than you.
        
       | chankstein38 wrote:
       | Personal Superintelligence made me think this was an open-source
       | model being released and I was excited. Then I continued reading
       | and I'll just wait until the model comes out.
        
         | gardnr wrote:
         | I was really excited until I realised that "personal" meant
         | "owned by meta".
         | 
         | I'm trying to decide is I find the doublespeak a bit offensive
         | or not.
        
         | dbgrman wrote:
         | I wonder if Zuck will ever internalize that the words
         | 'personal' and 'meta' will not be taken seriously together for
         | another decade (if they don't make another gaff).
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | So does this confirm the end of llama?
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Associated Meta news post with consumer-friendly takes:
       | https://about.fb.com/news/2026/04/introducing-muse-spark-met...
        
       | ehutch79 wrote:
       | How's the metaverse doing? It was the next big thing and how
       | we're all going to be working inside it in... was it like 3
       | months ago?
       | 
       | Maybe they need to mine more libra coin first? or is it diem now?
       | is that even still part of meta?
       | 
       | I'm sure this new AI is super intelligent and super awesome and
       | will be writing all the code, making all the blog posts, and
       | generating all our youtube shorts in 6 months.
        
         | captn3m0 wrote:
         | Libra/Diem got sold to the bank they were partnering with
         | (Silvergate) for $200M, which then filed for Bankruptcy.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diem_(digital_currency)
        
         | serf wrote:
         | what's with the negativity?
         | 
         | yeah, the metaverse got abandoned. Also: Meta was the only one
         | to try the concept for the past X-umpteen years even though
         | everyone in the industry ga-gas over virtual reality worlds and
         | workplaces at every opportunity. It's literally Meta and Linden
         | Labs (which has been on life support for 10+ years.)
         | 
         | The alternative is : no one does it and nothing gets abandoned,
         | which the industry has shown itself to be _exceedingly good at_
         | w.r.t VR for the past 40+ years.
         | 
         | To be clear: I have no faith in meta as a company; my problem
         | lies in kicking an entity because they attempted something
         | different.. I don't think that's productive, and it produces
         | stuff like the past AI winters because groups get afraid of
         | touching experimental concepts ever again lest they incur the
         | wrath of the shareholder.
        
           | ehutch79 wrote:
           | It's not the failure here or there, it's a pattern. It's not
           | even the failing, it's the excessive hype cycle.
           | 
           | We keep seeing things being overhyped, with not much thought
           | behind it. Meta is particularly bad about it. They changed
           | their name for the hype of their VR product, when VR was
           | still niche and had a long way to go, and still does. They
           | couldn't even figure out legs for launch.
           | 
           | Now they have a 'superintellegence'? Yeah, that sounds like
           | just the latest in a line of bullshit. Why would this be
           | different.
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | ehutch79 wrote:
           | Establishing a pattern of over hyping of projects that then
           | disappear isn't a shallow dismissal.
        
       | jansport123 wrote:
       | did they just copy the chatgpt ui?
        
       | sidcool wrote:
       | Meta.ai has muse spark
        
       | tty456 wrote:
       | I don't get the comments trashing this. If it slightly beats or
       | even matches Opus 4.6, it means Meta is capable of building a
       | model competitive with the leading AI company. Sure, they spent a
       | lot of money and will have on-going costs. But how much more work
       | would it take to turn that into a coding agent people are willing
       | to try (and pay for) along side their usage of a collection of
       | agents (Claude, Codex, etc)? Also means Meta doesn't have to pay
       | another company to use a SATA model across all their products
       | (including IG and WhatsApp, vr) which will matter to their
       | balance sheet long term (despite the constant r&d spend).
        
         | prodigycorp wrote:
         | Comments trashing this are rightly correct skeptics who
         | remember the benchmaxxing of llama 4. This model was out in the
         | woods as early as like a couple months ago but they didn't
         | release it because it was at gemini 2.5 pro levels.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | The llama4 series was one of the earliest large MoE's to be
           | made publically available. People just ignored it because
           | they were focused on running smaller and denser models at the
           | time, we should know better these days.
        
             | prodigycorp wrote:
             | the models were objectively horrible
        
               | NitpickLawyer wrote:
               | They really weren't horrible. They were ~gpt4o, with the
               | added benefit that you could run them on premise. Just
               | "regular" models, non "thinking". Inefficient
               | architecture (number of active out of total) but
               | otherwise "decent" models. They got trashed online by
               | bots and chinese shills (I was online that weekend when
               | it happened, it's something to behold). Just because they
               | were non-thinking when thinking was clearly the future
               | doesn't make them horrible. Not SotA by any means, but
               | still.
        
               | prodigycorp wrote:
               | Nah I remember how disgusted I felt trying llama 4
               | maverick and scout. They were both DOA.. couldn't even
               | beat much smaller local models.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | I'll cosign what you said, simultaneously, yr
               | interlocutor's point is also well-founded and it
               | depresses me it's not better known and sounds
               | so...off...due to conventional wisdom x God King Zuck's
               | misunderstanding his own company and resulting
               | overreaction.
               | 
               | They beat Gemini 2.5 Flash and Pro _handily_ on my
               | benchmark suite. (tl;dr: tool calling and agentic
               | coding).
               | 
               | Llama 4 on Groq was ~GPT 4.1 on the benchmark at ~50% the
               | cost.
               | 
               | They shouldn't have released it on a Saturday.
               | 
               | They should have spent a month with it in private
               | prerelease, working with providers.[1]
               | 
               | The rushed launch and ensuing quality issues got rolled
               | into the hypebeast narrative of "DeepSeek will take over
               | the world"
               | 
               | I bet it was super fucking annoying to talk to due to
               | LMArena maxxing.
               | 
               | [1] my understanding is longest heads up was single-digit
               | days, if any. Most modellers have arrived at 2+ weeks
               | now, there's a _lot_ between spitting out logits and
               | parsing and delivering a response.
        
               | alex1138 wrote:
               | Your comments seem to imply the engineers made a great
               | product but Zuck intervened so now it's shit
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | I don't know how Zuck intervening could change float32s
               | in a trained model, so I don't think I think that, but
               | maybe I'm parsing your words incorrectly.
        
               | pixel_popping wrote:
               | failing non-stop at tool calls on top of that.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | Wrote longer comment steel-manning this, posted it to a
               | reply, then realized you might like to know they had a
               | reasoning model on deck ready for release in the next 2-4
               | weeks.
               | 
               | Got shitcanned due to bad PR & Zuck God-King terraforming
               | the org, so there'd be a year delay to next release.
               | 
               | Real tragi-comedy, and you have no idea how happy it
               | makes me to see someone in the wild saying this. It
               | sounds so bizarre to people given the conventional
               | wisdom, but, it's what happened.
        
             | dilap wrote:
             | Deepseek R1 was a publically-available, MoE model that was
             | getting a ton of attention before llama4. Llama4 didn't get
             | much attention because it wasn't good.
        
         | redox99 wrote:
         | > If it slightly beats or even matches Opus 4.6
         | 
         | It doesn't though
        
           | ryeguy_24 wrote:
           | Curious on why you think this. Any data points that led you
           | to this?
        
             | howdareme wrote:
             | The benchmarks they released
        
               | johnfn wrote:
               | What do you mean? In most cases, the benchmarks show a
               | larger number for Muse and a smaller number for Opus.
        
               | spprashant wrote:
               | In Multimodal yes, but Opus is definitely edging out in
               | Text/Reasoning and Agentic benchmarks.
               | 
               | I think the general skepticism is because they are late
               | to race, and they are releasing a Opus-4.6-equivalent
               | model now, when Anthropic is teasing Mythos.
        
         | ChipopLeMoral wrote:
         | > I don't get the comments trashing this.
         | 
         | People like to hate on Meta regardless of anything, and
         | regardless of whether it's justified or not. Not saying it
         | isn't, just that it's many people's default bias.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | It's a decent model if the benchmarks are to be believed, but
         | it won't be close to Opus in usefulness for programming. None
         | of these benchmarks completely capture what makes a model
         | useful for day-to-day coding tasks, unfortunately. It will take
         | time for them to catch up, and Opus will keep improving in the
         | meantime. But it's good to have more competition.
        
         | blazespin wrote:
         | Because bots and trillion dollar ipos and even bigger stakes.
         | People need to better appreciate the level of manipulation
         | going on. Social media has an outsized impact. Bots and even
         | people are getting paid to post and upvote/downvote narratives.
        
           | asdfman123 wrote:
           | > people are getting paid to post and upvote/downvote
           | narratives
           | 
           | This problem will be solved shortly with better AI (if it
           | hasn't essentially been solved already).
           | 
           | No more humans in the loop, much lower costs for social media
           | manipulation. Welcome to the future!
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I can remember when AOL was an unstoppable giant. Except it
       | wasn't. People eventually realized they could get a better,
       | cheaper, faster experience with ISPs and search engines. The same
       | path is unfolding before Meta. People have much better options,
       | and plethora of Meta users will slowly leave until the big moat
       | is drained. Zuck, go retire to your NZ bunker before Meta is
       | forced to merge with another media company.
        
       | hackrmn wrote:
       | The hero image on the linked page, which consists of a muted teal
       | background with the words "Introducing Muse Spark", weighs in at
       | 3,5MB. I don't even...
        
         | Invictus0 wrote:
         | complaining about sand on the beach
        
           | hackrmn wrote:
           | I am simply offended. By Meta's lack of sensibilities (or
           | ability) towards use of images on the Web while touting their
           | new flavour of artificial intelligence as a product.
        
             | Invictus0 wrote:
             | old man shouts at cloud
        
               | hackrmn wrote:
               | more like old man shouts at someone else's computer
        
           | fooqux wrote:
           | It's not sand on the beach, it's garbage on the beach.
        
         | hungryhobbit wrote:
         | Someday our robot overlords will be intelligent enough to ...
         | optimize images!
         | 
         | (But today is not that day.)
        
           | ruszki wrote:
           | The proper optimization in this case is to not use images at
           | all.
        
         | zfol_510 wrote:
         | And it doesn't even look high-res.
        
         | Overpower0416 wrote:
         | lol it literally took me 2s to google search "optimize image
         | for website" and 10s to upload and get a smaller sized image.
         | 
         | The result for that specific image is: 500kb. 85% decrease in
         | size
        
           | sofixa wrote:
           | You can even automatically do that on your CDN/delivery/web
           | server layer. Or as part of your web deployment pipeline.
        
             | Overpower0416 wrote:
             | Yes, but it might be a little too advance for Meta ;)
        
               | re-thc wrote:
               | But they have personal superintelligence?
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | An indistinguishable JPG is 170KB. An SVG would be 20KB.
        
             | levocardia wrote:
             | CSS with a linear gradient background would be even smaller
             | :)
        
         | KerrickStaley wrote:
         | "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances--e.g.
         | article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button
         | breakage. They're too common to be interesting."
         | 
         | - Hacker News Guidelines
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | yawnxyz wrote:
           | I think this speaks to the product release iself
        
           | gobdovan wrote:
           | It's at least Meta-relevant. Compression Represents
           | Intelligence Linearly (Y Huang, 2024)
        
           | sumedh wrote:
           | Such complaints are valid for AI model releases, that tells
           | us that they are not using their own models to test their own
           | release pages.
        
         | fleabitdev wrote:
         | Good catch - looks like it's a PNG image, with an alpha channel
         | for the rounded corners, and a subtle gradient in the
         | background. The gradient is rendered with dithering, to prevent
         | colour banding. The dither pattern is random, which introduces
         | lots of noise. Since noise can't be losslessly compressed, the
         | PNG is an enormous 6.2 bits per pixel.
         | 
         | While working on a web-based graphics editor, I've noticed that
         | users upload a lot of PNG assets with this problem. I've never
         | tracked down the cause... is there a popular raster image
         | editor which recently switched to dithered rendering of
         | gradients?
        
           | girvo wrote:
           | _My_ reasoning is because once upon a time, I was using
           | Macromedia Fireworks, and PNGs gave far far better results
           | than JPGs did at the time, at least in terms of output
           | quality. Nearly certainly because I didn 't understand JPG
           | compression, but for web work in the mid 2000s PNGs became my
           | favourite. Not to mention proper alpha channels!
           | 
           | ...and so it's stuck, two decades on haha
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | For me it's 213 kB. Did they replace it?
        
       | eranation wrote:
       | So this is why Anthropic rushed the weirdest "pre-responsible-
       | disclosure-totally-not-for-marketing" announcement yesterday? To
       | make sure Spark doesn't steal their thunder? (Spark beats Opus
       | 4.6 on some benchmarks...). Or did I become a bitter cynical old
       | man.
        
         | hnav wrote:
         | It's giving "OpenAI says its new model GPT-2 is too dangerous
         | to release (2019)"
        
           | reducesuffering wrote:
           | [because it would start an arms race]. The very arms race
           | we're in... They were right
        
         | signatoremo wrote:
         | 13 days ago.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47538795
        
           | spindump8930 wrote:
           | Yes, it's far more certain that meta released this, which is
           | less convincing on evals, as a result of the mythos previews.
        
         | levocardia wrote:
         | Anthropic had their mythos post (and model) basically ready a
         | few weeks ago, as evidenced by the blog content leaks. Also I
         | highly doubt they just threw together a 250-page PDF model card
         | in a "rush."
        
         | dbgrman wrote:
         | Last i checked with friends at meta they are pretty deeply
         | invested in using claude for coding etc. anthropic has nothing
         | to be scared of at MSL.
         | 
         | If spark beats opus 4.6, why is meta wasting money on opus
         | internally?
        
       | bguberfain wrote:
       | We all know it... but I think they were very bold in this warning
       | about using your private messages to train public models. _Your
       | messages with AIs will be used to improve AI at Meta. Don't share
       | information, including sensitive topics, about others or yourself
       | that you don't want the AI to retain and use_
        
         | discopicante wrote:
         | meta doesn't exactly instill confidence on using personal data
         | responsibly. hard pass
        
       | Kuyawa wrote:
       | > Meta AI isn't available yet in your country
       | 
       | Not my loss, will keep using DeepSeek then. Wake me up when my
       | country is no longer in the wrong/right side of history.
        
       | vinni2 wrote:
       | I have to create meta account to access. No thanks.
        
       | gritspants wrote:
       | I would like someone to tell me how stupid I am. If I were
       | Meta/Zuck I'd open source a great model the moment my company
       | developed it. This just looks like a pitch to investors,
       | otherwise.
        
         | jamiequint wrote:
         | "This just looks like a pitch to investors"
         | 
         | The goal of public companies is generally to generate profit
         | for their investors.
        
           | samrus wrote:
           | Im beginning to think thats the mantra we'll keep reciting as
           | this whole country slowly falls apart
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | This is also the goal of private companies.
        
           | gritspants wrote:
           | Thank you for telling me how stupid I am.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | pitch to investors sounds like working for the opposite goal
           | though - to convince investors to give more money to the
           | company.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | funny how websites do that thing where it looks like you can use
       | the product but soon as you hit enter, nope login first
        
       | edwcross wrote:
       | What is the "BioTIER-refuse" thing mentioned in the "Bioweapons
       | Refusal" graph?
       | 
       | I Googled it and found absolutely nothing.
       | 
       | Well, to be honest, I got 100% of websites containing the French
       | word "boitier" (box) with a typo.
       | 
       | Even on Google Scholar, the closest match is "BioTiER (Biological
       | Training in Education and Research) Scholars Program", which is
       | at least 10 years old and has nothing to do with that.
       | 
       | Is that an AI-generated image with an AI-generated name that has
       | no physical existence?
        
         | EnderWT wrote:
         | https://securebio.org/biotier/
        
       | nharada wrote:
       | Saying nothing about the actual performance of this model, it
       | does strike me how .... minimal(?) this announcement is. Their
       | safety section is like 2 paragraphs about bioweapons. Go look at
       | the reports for OpenAI and Anthropic's model releases. It's like
       | 50+ pages of tests, examples, reports, and benchmarks across a
       | bunch of safety and wellfare metrics.
       | 
       | If Meta wants to be seen as a cutting edge massive lab they need
       | to come across as one instead of looking like a school project
       | version of a frontier model.
        
         | WarmWash wrote:
         | Rumor on the ground is that they expected a much stronger model
         | than this one.
        
           | nubg wrote:
           | Can you elaborate?
        
             | WarmWash wrote:
             | That's it. It's just a rumor. A model, which I don't even
             | know of it's this one specifically, fell short of
             | expectations. This rumor came up around mid March.
        
           | htrp wrote:
           | llama4 behemoth problems?
        
           | levocardia wrote:
           | Funny contrast with Anthropic. Ant does a "hero run," gets a
           | model much more powerful than they expect. Meta does a hero
           | run, gets a model much more mediocre than they expect. Read
           | into this what you will, I guess?
        
       | binaryturtle wrote:
       | Looks like it needs a meta account? As soon you hit enter it
       | wants to log-in. I guess I won't try this any time soon. :)
        
       | khurdula wrote:
       | "we hope to open-source future versions of the model."
       | 
       | Love to see it. Cheers!
        
       | tekacs wrote:
       | https://meta.ai/share/pe4HxOfv2Bp
       | 
       | Finding a little bit tricky to evaluate because the harness is
       | unfortunately very, very bad (e.g. search is awful). Can't wait
       | to try this in some real external services where we can see how
       | it performs for real.
       | 
       | Definitely getting ordinary high-quality results, overall. But
       | hard to test agentic behavior and hard to test prose quality,
       | even, when just working off of the default chat interface.
       | 
       | One thing that stands out is that _for_ the quality it feels
       | very, very fast. Perhaps it's just only very lightly loaded right
       | now, but irrespective it's lovely to feel.
       | 
       | I'm quite impressed with the tone overall. It definitely feels
       | much more like Opus than it does, like, GPT or Grok in the sense
       | that the style is conversational, natural and enjoyable.
        
       | glerk wrote:
       | Personal as in Meta gets your personal data so they can sell you
       | more ads.
        
         | CrzyLngPwd wrote:
         | If I'm a claw, then they can send me as many ads as they like.
        
       | napolux wrote:
       | I can't login. It sends me always the same code and it's not
       | correct for them
        
       | nubg wrote:
       | NOTHING about this is personal! No weights were released!
        
       | hvass wrote:
       | Genuine question: Why release this the day after Mythos? It does
       | not appear SOTA (just based on benchmarks). OpenAI will likely
       | release Spud tomorrow.
        
         | eranation wrote:
         | That's a really good question, my sarcastic mind thinks that
         | Anthropic rushed the Mythos announcement of fears of Meta
         | stealing their thunder... (I guess someone leaked that, a LOT
         | of anthropic folks are ex meta... so, you know)
         | 
         | Just a speculation, I have no real knowledge about it.
        
           | MattRix wrote:
           | I think Anthropic did the mythos announcement to undercut
           | OpenAI's upcoming next model announcement, not Meta's.
        
         | MattRix wrote:
         | Why not? Not everything has to be SOTA to be interesting.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Mythos is a news article. This is an actual model you can use.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | Kinda crazy, it really felt like Meta had the lead in LLMs,
       | especially during the early LLaMa days. What happened for them to
       | fall so far behind? I don't get how LLaMa 4 was such a big train
       | wreck and they couldn't correct the course like Google.
        
       | plombe wrote:
       | Looks like a lightweight article. But memory usage went from
       | 316MB -> 502 MB when I hit refresh. Not sure why? Any one have
       | any ideas? Why does it need half a gig of ram in the first place?
        
       | GalaxyNova wrote:
       | It is unfortunate that they decided to stop doing open-weight
       | releases.
       | 
       | What could have been interesting has been reduced to simply
       | another subpar LLM release.
        
       | dhruvyads wrote:
       | Sad to see it's not going to be open source.
        
       | eranation wrote:
       | Sarcasm aside, tried it (with instant mode), it's an impressive
       | model.
       | 
       | It nailed all the ChatGPT meme gotchas (walk to the carwash,
       | Alice 50 brothers, upside down cup, R's in strawberry, which
       | number is bigger, 9.11 or 9.9?)
       | 
       | I guess all that money poaching OpenAI / Anthropic talent went
       | somewhere...
       | 
       | Now, would I use "Meta Muse Code" or "Muse CoWork" if I have to
       | have a facebook account to all of my developers? Maybe not.
       | 
       | Would I use it via an API key? I might, depends on the pricing!
        
         | turtlesdown11 wrote:
         | so since they hard programmed all of the meme gotchas, they
         | built a good model?
        
           | nh23423fefe wrote:
           | lazy snark < playing around with it
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | Meta is in a weird spot. They caught up late to the game and
       | instead of releasing llama as a chat bot they open sourced it,
       | precisely because they lost the mind share. They thought chatbot
       | is not their product and I am sure they are regretting it now.
       | Mark is obsessed with becoming the android of something and he
       | poured billions into the metaverse thinking he is first and
       | failed. He then open sourced llama and wanted to be the android
       | of llms. He ended up enabling groq but it didn't benefit meta
       | directly at all. They have no revenue or mind share path from
       | llms but continue to pour billions into it. The only 1-1 mapping
       | is with the glasses but that is a tough fit for the company given
       | they are extremely allergic to privqcy and security.
       | 
       | Not sure what this is now.
        
         | gardnr wrote:
         | The llama weights were leaked. It open sourced itself.
         | 
         | You are right though. Meta could have been in lockstep
         | releasing ChatGPT features into some chat bot on Facebook.com
         | but instead it seemed like their FAIR arm was hell bent on
         | commoditising this stuff by publishing their research models
         | before the Chinese companies took the lead in that.
         | 
         | It's hard for me to be mad at FAIR even though I general
         | disagree with the outcomes that Meta produce for their users.
        
         | IceWreck wrote:
         | > He then open sourced llama and wanted to be the android of
         | llms.
         | 
         | Well the original llama did kick off the era of open source
         | LLMs. Most original open source LLMs were based on the llama
         | architecture. And look where we are now OSS modles are very
         | close to frontier.
         | 
         | It may not have benefitted Meta but it commoditizatised LLMs.
        
           | solarkraft wrote:
           | Hell, most of us are still using llama.cpp for inference in
           | some form
        
         | btown wrote:
         | > ended up enabling groq
         | 
         | For those reading fast, this isn't a reference to SpaceX's
         | Grok, this is Groq.com - with its custom inference chip, and
         | offerings like https://groq.com/blog/introducing-llama-3-groq-
         | tool-use-mode... and https://console.groq.com/landing/llama-api
        
           | sunaookami wrote:
           | Really liked Groq due to its speed but it seems like after
           | Nvidia bought it it has been discontinued...
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | I'm struck by all these independent announcements saying "look at
       | our new model that we only spent $N Billion in acquisitions and
       | hardware time to build and operate that's just like those other
       | ones but this one is ours." Because if any of these companies
       | would simply pool resources and work together, and if the
       | government actively participated in providing funds, they'd be
       | able to accelerate AI so much faster. It all feels incredibly
       | wasteful. But I guess that's communism or something.
        
         | victorbjorklund wrote:
         | Competition often foster innovation. Why are they innovating so
         | fast and spending so much money? Because they don't wanna get
         | behind. If there was no competition at all then there would be
         | much less reason to innovate and spend resources.
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | > _Competition often foster innovation._
           | 
           | So does cooperation in any framework that values public good
           | over pure obedience to an inherently-abusive late stage
           | capitalism. I know that's passe in a world where the US
           | government no longer believes in funding science, and yet.
           | 
           | Competition is also inherently wasteful. And if you're
           | talking about wasting a few K or a few Mil here or there,
           | fine, whatever. But here we're talking about waste on the
           | order of trillions of dollars at the end of the day.
        
       | nathan_compton wrote:
       | Their product could literally teleport gold into my hands and I
       | wouldn't use it.
        
       | cvhc wrote:
       | Can't login. No error message in the UI. But the URL changes to
       | "https://www.meta.ai/?error=Token%20exchange%20failed".
        
         | cvhc wrote:
         | I switched to Chrome (from Firefox) and tried again. Now it's
         | "https://www.meta.ai/?error=Invalid%20CSRF%20token" :facepalm:
        
         | nh23423fefe wrote:
         | same. closed tab and will forget to ever use it now
        
       | spprashant wrote:
       | Sounds like a good effort. They are choosing to focus on multi-
       | modality - perhaps they are taking a different route here to
       | Anthropic.
       | 
       | I don't like that I need to login to my FB/Instagram account to
       | access this.
        
       | spearman wrote:
       | Uploading images requires logging in. Logging in is broken. It
       | redirects to https://meta.ai/?error=Token%20exchange%20failed and
       | doesn't show any error message. Impressive.
        
         | brianmcnulty wrote:
         | It has been up and down today, specifically with authentication
         | breaking. I also saw an error message with backend SQL in it
         | (in my 6 years of Meta bug bounty security research, I have
         | never once seen backend SQL before).
         | 
         | I suspect it is because they also refactored Meta AI entirely
         | to use Next.js instead of their normal stack they use for
         | literally everything else. Not sure why they would do this, but
         | I guess it works (...or maybe not) for them.
        
       | btown wrote:
       | Benchmarks are meaningless until the pelican benchmark comes out:
       | https://simonwillison.net/
        
       | dbgrman wrote:
       | Litmus test: what % of meta engineers are using muse vs Claude
       | code? Last i heard it was mostly claude code. Tell you everything
       | you need to know about how serious these benchmarks are.
        
         | upmind wrote:
         | Sure it's not as good as Claude right now but for their first
         | model in years it's certainly not bad. I hope they continue to
         | develop models, having another competitor in the space would be
         | nice.
        
       | granzymes wrote:
       | Comes impressively close to GPT 5.4 / Gemini 3.1 Pro / Opus 4.6!
       | Mostly behind OpenAI on coding/agentic benchmarks, behind Google
       | on text reasoning, behind Anthropic on Humanity's Last Exam with
       | tools (surprisingly the only benchmark where Anthropic leads
       | currently).
       | 
       | Meta hasn't fully caught up, but they came close and I think can
       | solidly claim to be a frontier lab again. I'd call it a 3.5 horse
       | race right now, and hopefully their next model improves. More
       | model competition is good!
       | 
       | Poor Grok 4.2 should probably be dropped from the table.
        
         | fancy_pantser wrote:
         | It's looking rather low on reasoning and long-range problems
         | with the approach described. For example, even with 16 agents
         | and compaction, the HLE score is significantly below
         | Anthropic's Mythos. Like you, I can see the release as a net
         | Good Thing, but apples-to-apples for each org's latest models
         | do have Meta holding steady in the middle pack.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | HLE encompasses very hard problems where the larger
           | pretraining of Mythos probably matters quite a bit. I'm not
           | saying that Mythos is not showing some amount of genuine
           | improvement compared to e.g. the latest Opus; just that if
           | you're going to compare models, you should at least make sure
           | that the overall test-time workload is in the same ballpark
           | given how high it seems to be for Mythos.
        
       | redlewel wrote:
       | I am already somewhat concerned with companies like Anthropic and
       | especially OpenAI having personal data via chats. Typing that
       | sort of information into a Meta AI product feels completely
       | irresponsible. You could make some very sophisticated ads/psyop
       | attacks with data from daily ai chats.
       | 
       | I doubt its better than Opus and even if it was its not worth the
       | privacy concerns.
        
       | LZ_Khan wrote:
       | One word: distillation
        
       | pixel_popping wrote:
       | Meta back in the commercial race is actually exciting, despite
       | not being a fan of the company.
        
       | leumon wrote:
       | pelican riding a bicycle (svg):
       | https://files.catbox.moe/u5yc0x.png
        
       | TobTobXX wrote:
       | > Muse Spark is a natively multimodal reasoning model with
       | support for [...] visual chain of thought [...].
       | 
       | Do they mean "the chain of thought is visible to the user" (ie.
       | not hidden like ChatGPT), or "the medium of the chain of thought
       | is not text, but visuals" (ie. thinking in images).
       | 
       | I'd guess the former, since it wouldn't be economical to generate
       | transient images, just for thinking. But I'm not sure why they'd
       | highight that in that case. If it were the second thing, that'd
       | be extremely interesting. The first model not to think in text.
        
       | KoolKat23 wrote:
       | Perhaps I'm wrong, but definitely seems to be SOTA. Although
       | looking at it's ARC-AGI-2 score it's reasoning isn't very good. I
       | suspect it's got the benefits of scale but lacks that human added
       | element, understandable considering they claim to be building it
       | from the ground up. This should come in time if they have a good
       | team. In real life, I'd imagine one would worry about overfitting
       | when using it.
       | 
       | (I'm not using it as I'm not agreeing to their ad terms).
        
       | adt wrote:
       | Congrats to the Meta team on being model #800 on the Models
       | Table, I suppose.
       | 
       | https://lifearchitect.ai/models-table/
        
       | 2001zhaozhao wrote:
       | The "AIME Evolution" graph seems interesting. I wonder if other
       | labs are doing this too to improve the reasoning performance of
       | their models.
       | 
       | > Think longer to solve harder problems > Compress > Think longer
       | again
        
       | try-working wrote:
       | Looks alright for a "first" but there's no reason for anyone to
       | really use until they open source it.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | [delayed]
        
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