[HN Gopher] Veracrypt project update
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Veracrypt project update
        
       Author : super256
       Score  : 1095 points
       Date   : 2026-04-08 07:23 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sourceforge.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sourceforge.net)
        
       | dizhn wrote:
       | Microsoft disabled the developer's certificate so no windows
       | releases can be made.
        
         | jonathanstrange wrote:
         | As someone who is just planning to publish signed desktop
         | software for Windows, this is deeply worrying. What reasons
         | could there be for cancelling a certificate, especially when it
         | has been used for years and the identity is already
         | established?
         | 
         | Are there some ways to combat such decisions legally?
        
           | politelemon wrote:
           | This is a concern and risk that has realised itself multiple
           | times over the past decades. There have been multiple stories
           | linked to multiple developers in the past.
           | 
           | If you publish to any closed platform including ios, mac,
           | win, android, this is the risk you run and a condition of
           | operating you will need to accept.
        
           | shelled wrote:
           | Realistically speaking - anything could be a reason. A
           | shakedown or blocking based on some "nudge" (this might come
           | across as tin-foiled though). Some flag/trip-wires going
           | wrong, more worryingly due to a bug/false alarm - and this is
           | more worrying because in this case semi-incompetent large
           | orgs like MSFT find it really hard to accept it, fix, and
           | move on. Some change in OP's account that either they don't
           | see or haven't realised - some edge case, you never know.
           | 
           | And of course, it doesn't affect their earnings and there are
           | no consequence, or significant, so they won't care and won't
           | respond or tell what went wrong.
           | 
           | Can one move legally? Sure. But then it effectively is a
           | combo of who blinks first and who can hold their breath
           | longer.
        
           | technion wrote:
           | There's more to it. Signed desktop software can be signed by
           | any CA.
           | 
           | Veracrypt has kernel drivers. Microsoft's ability to control
           | what you can sign is specific to kernel drivers, and
           | Microsoft's trigger finger around bans exists in the world
           | where bad drivers BSOD machines.
           | 
           | In general this isn't your problem.
        
             | raxxorraxor wrote:
             | Speculation as well and highly unlikely. Microsoft drivers
             | can very well BSOD your machine as well, not a significant
             | or convincing threat scenario and certainly not something
             | that lead to certificate revocation of driver developers.
             | There is zero quality control or review by Microsoft here.
             | Not for their own products and not for third party ones.
        
               | steve1977 wrote:
               | Exhibit A:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_CrowdStrike-
               | related_IT_ou...
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | That's not entirely true. Certain classes of signing keys
               | require driver developers to put their driver through a
               | test battery and submit the results to Microsoft.
        
               | rkagerer wrote:
               | I wish Microsoft expanded and built on that model,
               | instead of moves like firing swarthes of their QA staff.
               | 
               | It could have grown into a massive, self-service testing
               | playground where any developer could submit their product
               | and put it through an arsenal of basic, automated
               | evaluations (e. does uninstall leave tidbits behind?),
               | with paid upgrades to more tailored services. They could
               | even publish scores to help consumers coarsely compare
               | workmanship across different vendors, and encourage an
               | emphasis on quality across the whole ecosystem.
               | 
               | Instead they decided to just become overpaid bouncers who
               | take your money, check your ID, and don't even bother
               | about what you bring through the door.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | You just have to start living like they do in Russia and
           | comply in advance. Don't do anything "interesting", no
           | encryption, or if you do, make sure you leave breadcrumbs,
           | scratch that, a bread trail for them to easily get access to
           | customer data. An Oracle or Sharepoint integration maybe?
        
           | electroly wrote:
           | Perhaps not legally, but technically, you have an option:
           | don't use the Microsoft Store. This isn't as wild a
           | suggestion as it may seem to non-Windows users: the store is
           | barely used by Windows users. You can get your own code
           | signing certificate from a public CA, sign your own
           | installer, and post it on your website. This is still the
           | primary way that Windows software is distributed. Microsoft
           | does not have a hand in any part of it; they _can 't_ cancel
           | anything. Their only role is including the public CA in their
           | root certificate store. If you're not shipping a kernel
           | driver, you don't need Microsoft's permission for anything.
           | You can still ship an .msix installer which is the same
           | technology used by the Store.
           | 
           | I recently de-listed my app in the store and closed my
           | Microsoft developer account. I was wrong for having bothered
           | with it; just a waste of my time for no benefit. Stick to
           | your own deployment.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | It's become neigh impossible to get your own code signing
             | cert these days. The 2025 update from the CA forum required
             | code signing certs to be short lived (no more three or five
             | year certs) and stored exclusively on an HSM. As a result,
             | most companies cross-signing these certs have moved to a
             | subscription PaaS model where you are issued a cert but
             | never receive custody of it, and perform signing via their
             | APIs, and are at their mercy should they decide to block
             | your account.
             | 
             | Anyway, even if you could get your own cert it would be
             | same thing: MS could revoke or blacklist your indicate cert
             | (though usually the grounds for doing so are much less
             | shaky than your account being suspended for vague "tos
             | violations")
        
               | electroly wrote:
               | I was afraid of the HSM at first but for an open source
               | developer (rather than a big company) I found it wasn't a
               | big deal. I can't sign in GitHub Actions and I have a USB
               | stick that lights up when I sign releases, but it hasn't
               | been a blocker. I got mine from Sectigo Store. This isn't
               | hypothetical, I really did it, I've got the HSM, it
               | works. It wasn't difficult. It just cost some money and a
               | little bit of time. "Nigh impossible" is a tremendous
               | exaggeration. I'll concede "annoying and expensive"
               | perhaps. If you've got the money, you can get the HSM.
               | You don't have to re-buy the HSM when you renew your
               | certificate.
               | 
               | The Microsoft Store account _was_ painful to set up, I
               | 'll note. My developer account had _also_ been cancelled
               | by Microsoft for unknown reasons, and I ultimately had to
               | set up a brand new one. New email, new name. My new
               | account has my middle initial because I couldn 't clash
               | with the existing, closed account. My first and last name
               | alone are banished forever from the store.
               | 
               | The "same thing", as you concede, isn't the same thing.
               | Quantity has a quality of its own: one happens all the
               | time and we're reading an article about it happening
               | right now. In the comments there's _another_ prominent
               | maintainer who it happened to, _and_ it happened to me
               | personally! That 's three right here! The other happens
               | so infrequently that people in this same HN thread are
               | complaining that it _isn 't happening enough_. Can you
               | find an example that's like Veracrypt and WireGuard? In
               | practice, it seems they rarely do this, even when they
               | should. You can actually view the list under "Manage
               | computer certificates" > "Untrusted Certificates." On my
               | computer the entire list is 20 certificates.
               | 
               | I'm standing by my suggestion, 100%. These aren't
               | equivalent risks at all.
        
               | ComputerGuru wrote:
               | Thanks for sharing your experience. I have been code
               | signing releases for over a decade as an indie publisher
               | myself, until I found myself effectively iced out by the
               | HSM requirement, the increased cost, and the shortened
               | cert lifetimes, which, as someone with certain executive
               | order dysfunctions, I already had a hard time being on
               | top of with the old (multi-year) lifetimes.
               | 
               | I just migrated to MS artifact signing and, thank the
               | lord, had an actually easier time getting verified than I
               | did with the Sectigo and Comodo in the past. I'm sure I'm
               | not representative of anyone else's experience but having
               | already had a developer account (with a different email
               | and without an Azure account!) that I had already been
               | using for the Microsoft Store might have helped, as well
               | as the fact that I had a well-established business
               | history (I've heard businesses younger than 3 years can't
               | get verified??), but reading all the comments here makes
               | me very uneasy about the future.
               | 
               | It's good to know the HSM route isn't a complete non-
               | starter. The main reason I panned it is that when I
               | started looking into this I found that a number of
               | companies that had previously offered the HSM route had
               | done a bait and switch and were now keeping custody
               | unless you were big enterprise (meaning willing to put up
               | with 10k/yr fees). I did find a few that would allow OSS
               | devs to sign their work, but read horror stories on
               | Reddit and elsewhere about their freezing the account and
               | issuing no refunds if you ask them to issue the cert in
               | the name of your LLC or corporation instead of with your
               | personal name (which I expressly did not want). Also,
               | they actually were more expensive than Azure artifact
               | signing even after the HSM cost was taken out.
        
               | rstupek wrote:
               | The sectigo HSM is just a USB stick they actually mail
               | you, so it's not onerous.
        
               | electroly wrote:
               | I believe you. I also found that many CAs will not deal
               | with a solo developer; that's real. But Sectigo continues
               | to offer HSMs to solo developers. The link I used is [1],
               | you buy the HSM along with your first certificate and
               | they ship it to you. $300/year for the cert, $90 one-time
               | for the HSM. That's not cheap but I think for specific
               | developers looking for an escape from the store, it's a
               | good price for freedom. The HSM is a USB stick with an
               | LED on the back. The software is called "SafeNet
               | Authentication Client" and it sets up the certificate
               | access in your Windows Certificate Store so that signtool
               | can use it. Prompts for the password every time
               | (annoying).
               | 
               | [1] https://comodosslstore.com/code-signing/comodo-
               | individual-co...
        
             | rkagerer wrote:
             | Thank you for that. Although it may be unlikely, I'd love
             | to see a mass exodus away from their failed attempt to
             | emulate all the worst aspects of appstores popularized in
             | other platforms.
             | 
             | I grew up being able to download software and install it,
             | and actually prefer that model (relying on reputational
             | trust of the party publishing it, my own verification from
             | other signals researched, or sandboxing techniques where
             | appropriate).
             | 
             | Most users may not be aware, but a rare gem of a version of
             | Windows that refreshingly doesn't even _come_ with the
             | store (or a bunch of the other unwanted bloat) is IoT
             | Enterprise LTSC.
             | 
             | As a lifelong Windows user, the premise of Microsoft
             | controlling what goes on my PC is revolting. I'm buying a
             | _tool_ from them, not a set of handcuffs. If it was some
             | non-profit, open-source group running the store I might be
             | more inclined to trust it. But ultimately the only
             | gatekeeper on a product I own should be me. Otherwise I don
             | 't really own it, which leads to problems like this one.
        
             | trinsic2 wrote:
             | Yep. OS level stores are just way for the org to exercise
             | control over installs.
             | 
             | I have stay far away from that process for a long time.
             | Apple MacOS seems like the worst in that department IMHO.
        
             | Joe_Cool wrote:
             | I have found that MS still blocks my signed and timestamped
             | .msi files for at least a few days. From saving the
             | downloads in Edge and then via Smartscreen once you get it
             | downloaded.
             | 
             | If I submit it manually for every update it tends to go
             | better. If more people download and install it whitelists
             | faster. But that is highly annoying, orwellian bullshit.
             | Might even be anti-competitive or downright illegal.
        
               | electroly wrote:
               | I see the same behavior with my MSIs. I've had better
               | luck with my MSIXs. As much as I like being Store-free, I
               | have a June 2025 release of an MSI-based app that _still_
               | gets dinged by Edge and again by SmartScreen. A different
               | MSIX-based app, with almost no users, gets dinged by Edge
               | but _not_ by SmartScreen. It 's the same certificate. I
               | can never be sure what other users are seeing, though.
               | 
               | tbh, I thought that I had built enough reputation on this
               | particular MSI release, until testing it just now. Hate
               | to see it :(
        
               | Joe_Cool wrote:
               | Yeah, same here. It's a black box. Nobody knows how it
               | works or what you can do to make it hassle free.
               | 
               | MS went from "developers, developers, developers" to
               | being a nightmare for everyone involved.
               | 
               | I actually liked Visual Studio 6 and the old MSDN. Now I
               | only wish they were gone.
        
           | lossyalgo wrote:
           | According to this:
           | https://x.com/EdgeSecurity/status/2041872931576299888
           | 
           | > ...it seems like they instituted an identity verification
           | policy, didn't notify me about it, and then I guess they
           | suspended accounts who didn't do the verification.
           | 
           | So, make sure you verify your account? Check spam folder
           | regularly? Log in via web interface at least once a year?
        
             | hulitu wrote:
             | > So, make sure you verify your account?
             | 
             | What ? On my computer ? Microsoft really has some nerves.
             | My Microsoft account is scheduled for deletion.
        
               | lossyalgo wrote:
               | I guess we can assume you won't be releasing any software
               | for Windows in the near future :)
        
         | Gareth321 wrote:
         | We can still install, right? It just comes up with a scary
         | warning. Still not great but at least we aren't locked out.
        
           | Strom wrote:
           | You can, but it's more than a warning. VeraCrypt has a signed
           | kernel driver, which has higher requirements. You'll need to
           | boot into a special Windows mode and disable Driver Signature
           | Enforcement.
        
             | HauntingPin wrote:
             | Afaict, you can't disable driver signature enforcement
             | permanently without disabling secure boot.
        
               | nslsm wrote:
               | You also get a huge watermark that says "Test Mode" that
               | takes up the entire screen (not kidding)
        
               | DHowett wrote:
               | Three lines of text in 12-point font in the corner which
               | can be covered by a window is hardly "the entire screen."
        
               | nslsm wrote:
               | They changed it recently.
               | 
               | https://learn-
               | attachment.microsoft.com/api/attachments/f8eac...
        
               | anfilt wrote:
               | Not the OP you responded too, but what the hell! I have
               | not really used windows in a while but that's absurd.
               | That text is massive just for an unsigned driver.
        
               | raxxorraxor wrote:
               | Secure boot is an anti-feature in most of the landscape
               | anyway. Sure, if you have a distribution under your
               | control or influence it could theoretically be a benefit.
               | But you need to not be stupid or naive here.
               | 
               | You can also roll you own encryption if you are not
               | stupid and naive. Probably a question of self-reflection.
        
             | fluoridation wrote:
             | Note that signatures are not revoked retroactively when a
             | certificate is revoked. You can still install previous
             | releases.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | With all the bugs and potential security flaws that are
               | there and not fixable.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | I don't know what to tell you, man. If you don't want
               | bugs then don't use computers.
        
       | ErroneousBosh wrote:
       | Jesus, sourceforge is still on the go?
        
         | SXX wrote:
         | Might be it even not using all your code to train AI. Or at
         | least not asking your explicit permission to do it.
        
           | karel-3d wrote:
           | sourceforge was always very scummy, I think they would
           | definitely use the code for that if they could
        
             | mbreese wrote:
             | It wasn't always scummy... but there was a definite shift
             | after they got bought. It's kept getting worse since then.
             | 
             | Then again, this was something like 20 years ago. Back
             | then, Sourceforge was something closer to GitHub today. It
             | was the de facto public source repository. You could even
             | get an on-premise version, IIRC.
             | 
             | Actually, this is sounding a lot like GitHub these days...
             | not sure what that means.
        
               | ErroneousBosh wrote:
               | As I've said elsewhere, freshmeat.net was better :-)
        
               | mbreese wrote:
               | For project discovery, definitely -- but not as a source
               | code repository.
               | 
               | Wow, we're dating ourselves on this, but I remember when
               | it was a big deal that SF.net added SVN support. They
               | apparently didn't turn off CVS until 2017!
        
               | ErroneousBosh wrote:
               | Yeah, I remember introducing a web dev company to SVN in
               | about oh maybe 2006. Prior to that their "version
               | control" was a webroot full of shit like "index.php",
               | "index.php.old", "index.php.broken",
               | "index.ryan.donottouch.php", "indexTUESDAY.php" and so
               | on.
               | 
               | Yeah no, guys, that's not what I meant. Let me just show
               | you this real quick...
               | 
               | I wonder if enough of freshmeat still exists on the
               | Wayback machine to make a clone, maybe a skin for
               | forgejo?
               | 
               | Simpler times, simpler everything.
        
           | JimDabell wrote:
           | Not every conversation has to be a conversation about AI.
        
         | egorfine wrote:
         | And unfortunately some projects exclusively use sourceforge.
         | Which breaks some of my CI pipelines.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | yeah, it just works
        
         | tvbusy wrote:
         | I understand that most people want to move to other more modern
         | tools, it's up to you. However, what baffled me is why the
         | author's choice not to move is a problem? Did we pay them to
         | move and they did not move as promised? Was there some crowd
         | funding to move that was not fulfilled?
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | > what baffled me is why the author's choice not to move is a
           | problem?
           | 
           | Because Sourceforge is horrible to use and was at one point
           | actively pushing malware? It's pretty obvious tbh.
        
           | ErroneousBosh wrote:
           | I just didn't think Sourceforge was still running. There was
           | a mass exodus from it about 20 years ago when it became a
           | massive ad farm that started injecting ads into people's
           | tarballs.
           | 
           | It was never as good as freshmeat.net even in its heyday.
        
       | firen777 wrote:
       | It's like LibreOffice all over again:
       | https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-bans-libreoffice-devel...
        
         | SeanDav wrote:
         | This is worrying on many levels. So Microsoft force you to
         | create an account to use Windows and then they reserve the
         | right to block you from your own account, thereby potentially
         | making you lose access to all your OWN data. This is crazy and
         | yet another reason to stop using Windows as soon as possible.
        
           | xorcist wrote:
           | It's not your own data anymore if you gave it away.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Or create the account but don't use Microsoft services.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | I know it's not what people want to hear but my response to a
           | lot of the comments here is just a general, I agree, it's
           | time to stop using Windows.
           | 
           | They won't let you secure your drive the way you want. They
           | won't let you secure your network the way you want (per the
           | top-level comment about Wireguard). In so doing they are
           | demonstrating not just that they can stop you from running
           | these particular programs but that they are very likely going
           | to exert this control on the entire product category going
           | forward, and I see little reason to believe they will stop
           | there. These are not minor issues; these are fundamental to
           | the safety, security, and functionality of your machine. This
           | indicates that Microsoft will continue to compromise the
           | safety, security, and functionality of your machine going
           | forward to their benefit as they see fit. This is intolerable
           | for many, many use cases.
           | 
           | I think it is becoming clear that Microsoft no longer
           | considers Windows users to be their customers any more.
           | Despite the fact that people do in fact pay for Windows,
           | Microsoft has shifted from largely supporting their customers
           | to out-and-out exploiting their customers. (Granted a certain
           | amount of exploitation has been around for a long time, but
           | things like the best backwards compatibility in the industry
           | showed their support, as well.)
           | 
           | I suspect this is the result of a lot of internal changes
           | (not one big one) but I also see no particular reason at the
           | moment to expect this to change. To my eyes both the first
           | and second derivative is heading in the direction of more
           | exploitation. More treating users like a cattle field and
           | less like customers. When new features or work is being
           | proposed at Microsoft, it is clear that it is being analyzed
           | entirely in terms of how it can benefit Microsoft and users
           | are not at the table.
           | 
           | No amount of wishing this wasn't so is going to change
           | anything. No amount of complaining about how _hard_ it is to
           | get off of Windows is going to change anything; indeed at
           | this point you 're just signalling to Microsoft that they are
           | correct and they can treat you this way and there's nothing
           | you will do about it for a long time.
        
             | zarzavat wrote:
             | Stop supporting Windows as well.
             | 
             | Open source developers are doing Microsoft a big favor when
             | they support Windows and publish Windows builds and
             | installers. It's a substantial effort, and apparently that
             | effort isn't appreciated.
             | 
             | If all open source software dropped support for Windows, it
             | wouldn't really affect the open source community that much.
             | It would definitely cause headaches for Microsoft however.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | It's not that easy.
               | 
               | I agree that supporting Windows helps its ecosystem.
               | 
               | But also open source software on Windows is an important
               | gateway to the free world. When you are already used to
               | Firefox, LibreOffice and VLC, you might as well switch to
               | Linux painlessly, but if those didn't run on Windows,
               | switching to Linux would require relearning everything.
        
               | estimator7292 wrote:
               | Irrelevant. If it's time to stop using windows, all those
               | windows users will have to relearn everything either way.
               | Whether they do it in a windows environment or a linux
               | one doesn't really change the equation.
               | 
               | A sudden lack of software on windows will increase user
               | migration. If we all keep publishing for windows, users
               | will just _stay there_ because their needs are already
               | met.
        
             | ufmace wrote:
             | I think they've been heading that way for a while, and it's
             | only getting clearer.
             | 
             | I've been thinking, and said before, 90s Microsoft was far
             | from perfect, but they at least seemed to care a lot about
             | the quality of Windows. 2020s Microsoft seems to see
             | Windows users as a captive audience they can exploit for
             | whatever the corporate executives fancy at the moment. It
             | seems more like a gradual transition.
             | 
             | In any case, it seems to be getting more clear that Linux
             | is destined to be the best OS for power-users.
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | Correction: stop using Microsoft products as soon as
           | possible.
        
           | gzread wrote:
           | Google and Apple have been doing this for a long time, and
           | Microsoft clearly got jealous.
           | 
           | Their first big win was when they banned the Chief Prosecutor
           | of the International Criminal Court from accessing any of the
           | court's documents, then deleted all of those documents. Now
           | they're going after slightly less important enemies of the
           | state. That bar will continue to drop as long as it's allowed
           | to. And let's not kid ourselves: if you develop or use
           | encryption software that Mossad can't break, you are an enemy
           | of the state.
        
         | whyoh wrote:
         | That probably had nothing to do with LibreOffice. Lots of
         | people have had their MS accounts locked for no reason. I guess
         | the automatic abuse detection system just sucks.
         | 
         | My advice is don't use a MS account if you can, at least not
         | for anything critical. You don't need it for development, you
         | can use 3rd party CAs for signatures.
        
       | pogue wrote:
       | They need to get some tech site like Arstechnica to write about
       | it, like they did when neocities couldn't get ahold of bing. The
       | only way to contact these tech companies to speak to a real human
       | being and not a chatbot is if you know somebody who works there
       | or if the media writes about it.
        
         | CR1337 wrote:
         | I blew the lid on X today:
         | 
         | https://x.com/i/status/2041698657368703484
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The (new?) X link made me think for a moment you got the
           | username @i
        
             | aaronmdjones wrote:
             | The website formerly known as Twitter has never cared about
             | the username part of the URI; it only looks at the status
             | number and will redirect you to the canonical version if it
             | wasn't.
        
             | yegle wrote:
             | The /i/ links are not new, but they used to be for internal
             | (?) links e.g. ads.
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | It's much worse than you think. Press coverage -> manual
         | intervention is at best a bandaid covering up a major wound in
         | a flaw that happens with independent software distribution.
         | 
         | The old model where the user decides which software or apps to
         | run on their machine, is basically already replaced by a
         | whitelist system that is managed by companies who have no
         | interest or obligation to approve developers. Factors like
         | "being an individual", an open source developer or god forbid
         | reside outside the USA, you rely on a combination of L1 support
         | doom loops, unjustifiable high recurring prices, kafkaesque and
         | changing requirements, internal inconsistencies. Windows is the
         | worst, but all platforms (except Linux) suffer from this and
         | you can and will get hurt, delayed, and gaslit. If you haven't,
         | it's just a matter of time.
         | 
         | I have been blocked for 6 months now with Digicert code cert
         | _renewal_ , for my app Payload, which will never get any media
         | attention. The app doesn't matter though, the approval process
         | is per-entity (usually, a company). The point is that nobody
         | gives a shit, because they have a monopoly/cartel and they
         | start the validation process after they take your money.
         | 
         | If you are not an app publisher, the best way I can describe it
         | is the "pre-let's encrypt" era of SSL certs, but more
         | expensive, strict and ambiguous. In fact, I've never gone
         | through any worse approval process in my life, and that
         | includes applying for residency in two countries, business
         | licenses, manual tax filings etc.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | Some countries (the EU in general) are already doing things
           | about this. Owning the app store means you are a monopoly and
           | now the only question is are you illegal by the local laws
           | which vary.
           | 
           | You can/should write your congressman (or whatever they are
           | called in your country) and get better laws in place.
        
             | klabb3 wrote:
             | You are not wrong that regulation is desperately needed,
             | and that EU is doing good things. However, even the EU
             | which are doing the right thing on an anti-trust pro-
             | competition basis, they fundamentally succumb to the same
             | misconception - that middlemen are necessary at all. The EU
             | doesn't care about the App Store model, they care about the
             | App Store monopoly. They are right about that, but the
             | solution isn't alternative app stores - it's much simpler:
             | the solution is NO App Store.
             | 
             | More specifically, it used to be feasible to distribute
             | software between me (the developer) and my customers (the
             | users) without a mandatory gate keeper that looks at me and
             | decides whether I'm worthy, am from the right country, have
             | good intentions etc. This is currently necessary on all
             | desktop and mobile platforms except Linux. There is exactly
             | 1 gatekeeper per platform (the platform owner who controls
             | your device), except windows, which effectively have like
             | 3-4 CAs that's shrinking every year due to mergers and
             | private equity ownership.
             | 
             | Software curation and reputation systems can be good,
             | either with whitelists (say steam) or blacklists (say
             | antivirus). I can see some use cases for it, but they
             | should be within user control. What we have now is worse
             | than a fearmongering Stallman rant. It's incredibly bad,
             | both pragmatically and philosophically.
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | If arbitrary app stores are allowed without restrictions,
               | isn't that equivalent to allowing installation of any
               | apps?
        
         | perlgeek wrote:
         | Isn't this Microsoft abusing their quasi-monopoly as a consumer
         | PC OS vendor?
         | 
         | If it weren't for the current administration, I'd say it's time
         | for regulatory action.
        
           | riskable wrote:
           | The time for regulatory action against Microsoft was _thirty
           | years ago_ and the need for it has only grown since then.
           | 
           | The FTC wasn't doing their job between 1980-2020 because of
           | their ridiculous standard of, "if it doesn't raise consumer
           | prices, it must be allowed." This lead to massive
           | consolidation in many industries which of course ended up
           | raising prices and hurting consumers anyway.
           | 
           | Recently they've had _some_ wins but overall they 're still
           | failing to do their job.
        
           | newsoftheday wrote:
           | > If it weren't for the current administration
           | 
           | Because the Democrats were better at keeping them on a leash?
           | No. Clinton was in charge 30 years ago and blew it.
        
             | tremon wrote:
             | It was the Clinton administration that started regulatory
             | proceedings against Microsoft, but it was GW Bush that was
             | president during the conclusion of the case. And, true to
             | form:
             | 
             | > The Department of Justice, now under Bush administration
             | attorney general John Ashcroft, announced on September 6,
             | 2001, that it was no longer seeking to break up Microsoft
             | and would instead seek a lesser antitrust penalty
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Co
             | r...
        
       | ninjagoo wrote:
       | Looks like Linux and some of the BSDs are the only remaining
       | truly open OSes.
        
         | krylon wrote:
         | True, however, that has been the case for quite a while. This
         | particular incident doesn't change that, except for the
         | VeraCrypt developer, who is in a crappy situation now (not just
         | regarding VeraCrypt, he mentions he was using the certificate
         | for his main job as well, so this sucks a lot for him).
        
         | sph wrote:
         | Well, of course. Have the other commercial offerings every been
         | "truly open OSes"?
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | So far I haven't had much concrete reason for my family to
           | switch away from Windows. The updates maybe, needing to pay
           | for a new license and the UI changes are like pulling the
           | chair out from under them, especially as they get older
           | (Windows 7 was hard for my grandma, thankfully they left 10
           | mostly alone but 11 is quite different again so she's
           | currently staying on 10 -- not that her hardware supports 11
           | anyway but that's fixable), but it's either learning the new
           | Windows UI, let's say ten storypoints of newness, or learning
           | some Linux desktop environment, even if it's Mint which is
           | similar to 7/XP it's not quite the same either and probably
           | like 15 storypoints at minimum, even if then you're done for
           | much longer
           | 
           | But if OSes are being locked down and software has trouble
           | distributing security updates through official repositories
           | for Windows... that's a good reason to finally make the
           | switch. Same as why my family is on Android: I can install
           | f-droid, disable the google store, and don't have to worry
           | about them installing malware / spyware / adware
           | 
           | There's different degrees of openness. Android till 2026 was
           | an acceptable compromise (let's see how it goed forwards).
           | Windows is also on the decline with their account policy, not
           | sure about this certificate revocation thing (thankfully
           | haven't had to deal with it yet; I'm not a user myself) but
           | it sounds like they're moving to a walled garden also
           | 
           | When the degree changes and gets even less open, yeah you can
           | say "well of course, they were never truly open, they're
           | commercial" but it's still a change and might lead people to
           | alter their choices
        
             | sph wrote:
             | You'll find that people that are not computer experts will
             | take to modern Linux with much more ease than those that
             | have complex needs, which for 90% of the people these days
             | means that access to the Web satisfies all their needs.
             | Moving from Windows 7 to 11 will probably be as traumatic
             | as moving from Windows 11 to KDE, so it's an investment
             | worth doing in my opinion.
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | While I agree entirely that Linux in 2026 has never been
               | more usable... how much actual work is being put into
               | Office and 365 tooling native on Linux?
               | 
               | Like none. Literally the best office you MIGHT KIND OF be
               | able to run in 2016, but probably more like 2013.
               | 
               | Valve focused on games, that is awesome and really
               | helpful...
               | 
               | But there are 10,000 distros and instead of putting real
               | resources to put even rickety bridges over MS's moat, no
               | sorry, this team is making duplication-of-effort distro
               | 10,001 which is now identical to thousands of others but
               | the taskbar is in the middle of screen.
               | 
               | The people working on Linux are consistently uninterested
               | in then things people would need to drop windows.
        
               | trinsic2 wrote:
               | > While I agree entirely that Linux in 2026 has never
               | been more usable... how much actual work is being put
               | into Office and 365 tooling native on Linux?
               | 
               | Why the hell would you want that? Office365 is a buggy
               | piece of nightmare.
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | Because even though you don't like a thing, the entire
               | world of business uses it.
               | 
               | Hold your nose and work on WINE if you need to think that
               | way. But MS has moats, and office is one of the widest.
        
               | trinsic2 wrote:
               | I think business are going to be forced to change their
               | thinking on this. Im not interesting in emulating windows
               | progs in wine. I switched to Thunderbird a long time ago
               | and other programs that give me the features I need with-
               | out sacrificing my freedom.
        
         | SeanDav wrote:
         | Except compulsory age verification in Linux is now becoming a
         | real threat. Some Linux distros are actively against this but
         | many are not seemingly interested in fighting it: CachyOS,
         | Ubuntu, Fedora and others.
         | 
         | Age Verification is the thin end of a much bigger wedge in
         | "open" OS's
        
           | akimbostrawman wrote:
           | the current law requires no verification at all simple
           | attestation, you could put in _any_ age. it also does not
           | effect linux distros as a whole, only distros in
           | jurisdictions with the laws.
        
             | SeanDav wrote:
             | Sure, for now... I simply don't believe it will stop at
             | "simple attestation", because we all know that simple
             | attestation is practically useless, but once the various
             | distros accept this "trivial" inconvenience, "Age
             | verification 2" with harsher requirements will soon be on
             | the way.
             | 
             | I would be ecstatic to be proved wrong on this, but
             | experience tells me that is not likely to happen.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | Simple attestation is very useful for the case where a
               | parent gives a child access to a computer and wants that
               | computer to block porn. That's the use case everyone is
               | clamoring for, and asking the root user "how old is this
               | user?" solves it in a simple, open, privacy-preserving
               | way. Everybody wins, except the teenager who wants to
               | watch porn. If this were not legally mandated, everyone
               | would support it as a useful feature, but since it is
               | legally mandated, we have to get angry about it.
        
               | SeanDav wrote:
               | This has got very little to do with children - that is
               | just the excuse that sounds good. "Think of the children"
               | is a rhetorical tactic that anyone who wants to get
               | unfettered access to your data rolls out whenever they
               | can. It is a tactic that unreasonable people use to
               | influence reasonable people, because it is so difficult
               | for a reasonable person to argue against without coming
               | across as uncaring and/or bigoted.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | If it was an excuse to get your data there would be some
               | data-getting involved. It may be hard for you to believe,
               | but lots of people really do want parental controls that
               | actually work and are bound by the force of law.
        
               | trinsic2 wrote:
               | Yes that may be true, but parents are being misguided by
               | efforts that are trying to control aspects of data.
               | 
               | If you, as a parent, make yourself open to this attack,
               | you will find that you are making us less free of a
               | society by expecting others to parent for you.
        
               | imglorp wrote:
               | We all know it's not about age, it's about user identity.
               | As above, it's clearly a wedge so it's not rhetorical to
               | observe more invasive and controlling features are
               | coming.
        
           | Pay08 wrote:
           | I thought community projects (as opposed to the corporate
           | Fedora and Ubuntu) are exempt from such laws.
        
           | sunshine-o wrote:
           | Yes time to wake up.
           | 
           | I really believe most "open source" big projects have been
           | compromised long ago. We have saw all those "Foundations"
           | taking them over with all their governance, bureaucracy and
           | goal which do not make any sense at the first look.
           | 
           | One example is Fedora, which is part of "The Digital Public
           | Goods Alliance" [0], "a multi-stakeholder initiative that
           | accelerates the attainment of the Sustainable Development
           | Goals by facilitating the discovery, development, use of, and
           | investment in digital public goods."
           | 
           | The Digital Public Goods Alliance has about every governments
           | as member plus all the usual suspects: Gate Foundation and
           | co.
           | 
           | All the leaderships have usually no background or experience
           | in open source or even computers but are just magically
           | placed there. But you can't say anything because they are
           | mostly women.
           | 
           | You read the goals and roadmaps of those foundations and find
           | out it has nothing to do with software or open source. It is
           | basically there to control those projects and then have them
           | implement all the age verification, digital id, etc.
           | 
           | So yes this is not a surprise all those projects are now all
           | in absurd features such as age verification.
           | 
           | - [0] https://www.digitalpublicgoods.net/
        
         | xorcist wrote:
         | Until Microsoft decides to no longer sign the Linux boot loader
         | shim (for IBM/Red Hat, no less).
        
           | irusensei wrote:
           | In most cases you can put your computer secure boot in setup
           | mode and roll your own keys.
        
             | trinsic2 wrote:
             | Until they making CA a requirement, then disable changing
             | the CA settings and it defaults to Microsoft. Then you are
             | fucked.
        
         | egorfine wrote:
         | Not for long: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46784572
        
       | nixpulvis wrote:
       | We need a better way to sign and verify software. Clearly
       | companies like Microsoft and Apple have not been good for the
       | open source communities and are inhibiting innovation.
        
         | PunchyHamster wrote:
         | Just add code cert generation to letsencrypt, it's not like MS
         | validates the code that you sign used certs from them anyway
        
           | mr_mitm wrote:
           | What would be the point? How would you prevent malware from
           | being signed? Currently, code signatures are used as a signal
           | for trustworthiness of the code.
        
             | Eldt wrote:
             | Misplaced trustworthiness?
        
             | duskdozer wrote:
             | Is it some entirely different process than providing hashes
             | and a GPG signature?
        
               | mr_mitm wrote:
               | Well, yes. Just look at OP and Jason struggling to get
               | their code signed.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | Microsoft signed the Crowdstrike updates. I don't think a
             | CA signing a piece of malware is a realistic thing to be
             | concerned about.
        
             | megous wrote:
             | Only signal is that whoever is in the subject DN (highly)
             | probably signed the code. There's 0 signal about
             | trustworthiness of the code in the signature.
             | Thrustworthiness signal is in the behavior/reputation of
             | the signer.
             | 
             | Pretty sure there were historically a lot of apps that
             | stole peoples contact lists and were signed properly.
             | Certainly in the Android world.
        
         | iamniels wrote:
         | We need better OSes such that signing of software is not
         | required to keep your computer safe.
        
           | drewfax wrote:
           | GrapheneOS is doing lot of things right in this regard.
           | Robust permission system adopted from AOSP and hardening by
           | default in every imaginable way. Things like hardened malloc,
           | storage scopes are excellent security features. Malware
           | cannot do much even with the default settings.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | Qubes OS is such OS: it runs everything in VMs with strong
           | hardware isolation. My daily driver, can't recommend it
           | enough.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | With a file system driver like Veracrypt, if it's malicious,
           | the OS might keep your computer safe, but not your files that
           | you store in that file system.
        
           | nixpulvis wrote:
           | Yes, I completely agree.
        
         | realusername wrote:
         | I think this is fundamentally an unsolvable problem and I'm not
         | even sure it's worth pursuing.
         | 
         | Any large scale signing platform will have large oversights and
         | be rendered useless. See the appstore / play store/windows...
        
         | Pay08 wrote:
         | On the source code side, I quite like the way Guix does things,
         | i.e. needing every commit to be gpg-signed. They even have a
         | handy tool for verifying the repo[0] but I'm not sure how
         | viable this is for non-OSS projects.
         | 
         | [0]: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Invoking-
         | guix...
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | It should something like web certificates, you can bring your
         | own.
        
         | uyzstvqs wrote:
         | I suggest that developers could self-sign to verify the
         | legitimacy of future updates. Otherwise leave it unsigned.
         | 
         | This entire "big tech overlords have to sign apps & drivers to
         | keep you safe" concept is one giant pile of nonsense.
        
       | speedgoose wrote:
       | It's perhaps naive, but could he create a new organisation, like
       | a "TotallyNotVeraCrypt" French loi 1901 association, at a
       | different address, and create a new microsoft account by making
       | sure it passes all the requirements.
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | That's what VeraCrypt is, a fork of the original TrueCrypt
         | after all drama, security doubts, and eventual discontinuation.
         | It took a long time and two independent audits to establish
         | trust in it.
        
         | subscribed wrote:
         | Probably not French though, give how hostile it appears to be
         | to encryption/security related projects (GrapheneOS had a good
         | arguments re: that)
        
           | kijin wrote:
           | The author is now based in Japan, and even owns a
           | veracrypt.jp domain. Meanwhile, the old veracrypt.fr domain
           | redirects to veracrypt.io.
           | 
           | Seems rather clear that he doesn't want French jurisdiction.
        
         | repelsteeltje wrote:
         | Yeah but isn't the point of these certificates to express
         | _trust_?
         | 
         | The point isn't (or: shouldn't be) to forcefully find your way
         | through some back alley to make it look legit. It's to
         | _certify_ that the software is legit.
         | 
         | Trust goes both ways: we ought to trust Microsoft to act as a
         | responsible CA. Obfuscating _why_ they revoked trust (as is
         | apparently the case) and leaving the phone ringing is hurting
         | trust in MS as a CA and as an organization.
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | who on planet earth trusts a piece of software because
           | Microsoft signed it?
        
             | mr_mitm wrote:
             | Trust isn't binary, it's a spectrum. A signature is a
             | signal that should increase trustworthiness. Not the
             | strongest signal, perhaps even a weak one, but it's not
             | zero.
        
             | roelschroeven wrote:
             | There are different types of trust, but at the very least
             | with such a signature you can trust that the piece of
             | software is really from Veracrypt and not from a malicious
             | third party.
        
             | repelsteeltje wrote:
             | For one: Most if not all virus scanners.
             | 
             | A signature is a signal, not an absolute. Although, to be
             | fair, if Microsoft (or most other CAs) had done a better
             | job, then that trust would have carried more weight than it
             | does currently.
        
         | fg137 wrote:
         | And Microsoft will be happy to shut that one down because their
         | incompetence.
         | 
         | So we'd better find a real solution now.
        
       | RandomGerm4n wrote:
       | That's especially ridiculous because this whole security
       | mechanism that Microsoft is forcing on Windows user doesn't even
       | work. There are tons of leaked certificates and on forums
       | dedicated to game hacking you can find guides on how to get your
       | hands on one yourself. People there use them to write kernel
       | drivers for cheating in games. Game developers often blacklist
       | these in their anti-cheat software so that the game no longer
       | launches on a computer using a driver with that certificate.
       | Microsoft however does not do this and malware developers can
       | then simply use the certificates for their own purposes. So all
       | this nonsense is basically just a restriction on regular users
       | and honest developers while the "bad guys" can get around it.
        
         | redox99 wrote:
         | That's kind of crazy. Why doesn't Microsoft revoke such certs
         | such that you can't sign new software with it?
        
           | steve1977 wrote:
           | Because it's mostly just performative.
        
         | Deathmax wrote:
         | Microsoft has been taking steps to mitigate the leaked code
         | signing certificate problem.
         | 
         | On the driver side of things, new versions of Windows no longer
         | trust the cross-signed certs, so you must submit your driver to
         | Microsoft to validate and sign, so no private key to go
         | missing. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-
         | itpro-blog/...
         | 
         | On the regular Authenticode side of things, the new CA/B Forum
         | rules have prohibited storing new private keys outside of
         | hardware modules for a while now, so eventually you won't be
         | able to find a leaked private key for code signing that would
         | still be valid.
        
       | shelled wrote:
       | I am somewhat _also_ concerned that this software was still being
       | distributed on SourceForge.
        
         | frizlab wrote:
         | I don't even understand how SourceForge still exists!
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | Yes, I stopped using SourceForge after they started tampering
         | with installers to put adware inside of them.
         | 
         | It's a bit worrying that a sensitive app such as VeraCrypt is
         | still distributed there.
        
           | poizan42 wrote:
           | That was 11 years ago, under DHI Group though. I don't think
           | Slashdot Media have been up to the same shady stuff.
        
             | Joe_Cool wrote:
             | Just shows how quickly and thoroughly those stupid suits
             | managed to destroy its reputation. Guess they love burning
             | money or really needed those tax writeoffs.
        
         | Pay08 wrote:
         | Why?
        
           | qwertox wrote:
           | ~2015, "DevShare". They wrapped open-source software
           | downloads with opt-out adware and PUPs (potentially unwanted
           | programs), without the original developers' consent in some
           | cases. They took over abandoned/unmaintained projects (like
           | GIMP for Windows, VLC, etc.) and replaced the original
           | download with their adware-wrapped version.
        
             | pocksuppet wrote:
             | Note that it's meaningless to call out "PUPs" as that
             | category includes many things that are developed and
             | distributed on sourceforge, like torrent clients.
        
         | bartvk wrote:
         | But think about it, if they were on Github now, which is owned
         | by Microsoft, would there be even further consequences?
        
         | luke5441 wrote:
         | Depending on GitHub and Microsofts largesse there surely is
         | much better. See OP.
        
       | _s_a_m_ wrote:
       | Microsoft doing everything in their power to be assholes, as
       | always
        
         | krylon wrote:
         | As much as I like bashing Microsoft, never underestimate
         | people's capacity for incompetence, especially where large
         | organizations are involved. I don't see how they would gain
         | anything from this move.
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | It doesn't help that they do that sort of shits AND mandate a
           | microsoft account for logging in to windows. Also how much
           | trust can you have that if you move your business to azure
           | they will not randomly kill it. Incompetence or malice,
           | almost doesn't matter to the average user.
        
             | krylon wrote:
             | The outcome is the same, yes. With incompetence, there is
             | at least a glimmer of hope things will get rectified. But
             | you are correct, trust is destroyed this way, and it
             | doesn't look like Microsoft cares much.
        
       | saidnooneever wrote:
       | maybe an old vulnerable signed driver can be used to load the new
       | version :D. on a more seirous note, i think contact with a person
       | at MS, likely via socials triggering that, might help here. It
       | all depends on the reason for the ban/block/cancel.
       | 
       | if they had a reason other than 'oops mistake' its likely just
       | going to remain in place. (sadly, that is how MS is. if you care
       | for privacy maybe go to BSD)
        
         | a_paddy wrote:
         | Who said vulnerable? Perhaps just a driver with less features.
        
           | no_time wrote:
           | GP refers to the practice of getting kernel level code
           | execution using other, old vulnerable drivers and using it to
           | run the VC driver.
        
       | zx2c4 wrote:
       | This is the same problem I'm currently facing with WireGuard. No
       | warning at all, no notification. One day I sign in to publish an
       | update, and yikes, account suspended. Currently undergoing some
       | sort of 60 days appeals process, but who knows. That's kind of
       | crazy: what if there were some critical RCE in WireGuard, being
       | exploited in the wild, and I needed to update users immediately?
       | (That's just hypothetical; don't freak out!) In that case,
       | Microsoft would have my hands entirely tied.
       | 
       | If anybody within Microsoft is able to do something, please
       | contact me -- jason at zx2c4 dot com.
        
         | teruakohatu wrote:
         | I am astounded that the maintainer and inventor of Wireguard is
         | in this position.
         | 
         | Microsoft even supports Wireguard in Azure Kubernetes Service.
        
           | miroljub wrote:
           | Maybe time for a custom license that would require M$ to sign
           | up for special T&Cs if they want to use this software?
           | 
           | Who cares if it's OSI-approved or not, a line saying "M$,
           | Google, and the like need written permission for every use
           | case" would help to make those leeches honest. Just learn
           | from the JSLint example.
        
             | UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote:
             | We literally just did this. Now we have Valkey. Nobody won.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | Did anyone lose?
               | 
               | Valkey is better because all of the new development work
               | happens on Valkey, not because of the license. If the
               | actual developer changed the license, that would be a
               | different situation.
        
             | greenavocado wrote:
             | This license modifier already exists for others to use (I
             | can't post the direct links here because this site will
             | sanction me for doing so)
             | 
             | plus n-word dot com hosts information about the plus n-word
             | license which purports:
             | 
             | - The software will not be used or hosted by western
             | corporations that promote censorship
             | 
             | - The software will not be used or hosted by compromised
             | individuals that promote censorship
             | 
             | - Users of the software will be immune to attacks that
             | would result in censorship of others
        
               | gzread wrote:
               | It's even GPL compatible, because the GPL makes provision
               | for additional notice requirements.
               | 
               | That would be both hilarious and horrifying if the only
               | thing stopping the corporate dystopia is that Microsoft
               | doesn't want to say the N word.
        
               | kbelder wrote:
               | Why "Western" corporations that promote censorship? Non-
               | western censorship is allowed?
        
               | greenavocado wrote:
               | They don't care as much about things like this
        
               | subscribed wrote:
               | About what things? Winnie the Pooh for example?
        
           | nelox wrote:
           | Agree. Single point of failure. One developer, one account.
           | Crazy.
        
             | ptx wrote:
             | Having multiple accounts wouldn't help, as Microsoft could
             | easily suspend all the accounts of everyone associated with
             | the project if any account looks suspicious. The single
             | point of failure is Microsoft.
        
             | jamesnorden wrote:
             | How would more than one account help in this scenario,
             | exactly?
        
               | hirako2000 wrote:
               | Any account can sign any (same) piece of software. Of
               | course Microsoft could detect the it's signing a software
               | related to a banned signed and ban the new account. So
               | veracrypt (and wireguard) is stuck.
               | 
               | It's outrageous. MS is simply enforcing some Government
               | crackdown on encryption software that would interfere
               | with backdoors.
        
             | raxxorraxor wrote:
             | No, that is not the issue here. The source of the problem
             | is something different. This is a wrong root cause
             | analysis.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | You're not actually allowed to avoid this by having
             | multiple accounts, that falls under "ban evasion".
             | 
             | But yes, there's a lot of critical single maintainer
             | projects.
        
           | windowliker wrote:
           | Is this another example of their old modus operandi:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis.
           | ..
           | 
           | ?
        
             | riskable wrote:
             | No. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was replaced by the AAA
             | strategy: Acquire, Assimilate, Abandon. They were trying to
             | be more Google-like with that "Abandon" step I think.
             | 
             | They've since moved on to the SSS strategy: Ship, Slip,
             | Slop.
        
               | arcanemachiner wrote:
               | Good heavens! My acronymical notes on Microsoft's product
               | strategy are two revisions out of date!
        
               | wtyvn wrote:
               | Damn, I thought it was "Slop, Ship, Smile"
        
           | Already__Taken wrote:
           | It's got a lot of analogy to restaurants banning Uber
           | delivery for not handling their food to their standards.
        
             | xiconfjs wrote:
             | What? How?
        
             | HackerThemAll wrote:
             | That actually is not analogy at all and it makes sense.
             | When a low-paid Uber Eats delivery person just throws the
             | box carelessly and brings damaged dish to the customer,
             | that's a real issue.
             | 
             | In digital services there's no such thing. There's only a
             | damned corporation employing idiots who don't care about
             | community.
        
         | onehair wrote:
         | Now this is even more alarming! Wireguard's creator has their
         | Microsoft account suspended...
         | 
         | <Tin foil hat on> Microsoft doesn't want to allow software that
         | would allow the user to shield themselves, either by totally
         | encrypting a drive, or by encrypting their network traffic!
         | </Tin foil hat on>
        
           | ngetchell wrote:
           | Or more likely, some automated security system flagged
           | popular but suspicious apps for further review.
        
             | nelox wrote:
             | Maybe they let Mythos loose and it suggested the safest
             | approach was to remove access ;)
        
             | raxxorraxor wrote:
             | Where are the people that tried to sell us software
             | signatures as security benefit? The reality is that they
             | are a very specific security problem. In theory and in
             | practice.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | Automated systems breaking things without any human contact
             | to get them resolved seems to be the theme of the last 10
             | years.
        
               | burnt-resistor wrote:
               | This phenomenon is so Orwellian with insufficient
               | awareness, it should both be an SNL skit and a John
               | Oliver episode. It's illiberal, neoliberal, corporate
               | bullshit that causes harm to individuals. These companies
               | need to be treated as utilities and the "companies can do
               | whatever they want" arguments must be debunked and
               | defeated because of the pervasive power they hold and
               | immense harm they can cause to individuals without a
               | remedy when they rug pull access without clear cause.
               | 
               | It also reminds me of the case of the entire family who
               | lost all of their payment-linked individual accounts
               | including business data and an academic dissertation
               | because the son allegedly behaved inappropriately with a
               | bot. Collective punishment on top of technofeudal instant
               | banishment.
        
             | antiframe wrote:
             | If you use an automated process to disable accounts but
             | then state there is no appeals process available as they
             | stated, then you are not to be trusted to be acting in good
             | faith. Bad actors should be called out and not given the
             | benefit of the doubt.
        
           | unicornporn wrote:
           | > Microsoft doesn't want to allow software that would allow
           | the user to shield themselves
           | 
           | I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything besides making
           | mo' money), but there are plenty of (state) actors that can
           | influence the decision-making at Microsoft when it comes to
           | these issues.
           | 
           | No tinfoil needed.
        
             | vstm wrote:
             | > No tinfoil needed.
             | 
             | That's what Big Tinfoil wants you to believe!
        
               | falcor84 wrote:
               | Wait, what?! I was sure that the agenda of Big Tinfoil
               | was to generate FUD so that we buy more tinfoil for our
               | hats. Are you implying their agenda goes even deeper?
        
               | shevy-java wrote:
               | But making money at the expense of people is not a
               | Tinfoil conspiracy - it's a factual statement.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | It is also a factual statement, that tinfoil shields
               | (somewhat) from electromagnetic radiation.
        
               | balamatom wrote:
               | But it is NOT necessarily a factual statement that one of
               | the main uses of electromagnetic radiation is for humans
               | to send information over long distances; nor that I first
               | learned about tinfoil hats from some random piece of
               | information that was being broadcast by means of
               | electromagnetic radiation. It's just a vibe.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | Yep.
        
               | kps wrote:
               | Have you tried to buy _tin_ foil lately? Big Aluminum has
               | taken over, and just see how far you get soldering the
               | grounding strap to an _aluminum_ foil hat.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | This is the dirty secret; Big Weird tried to warn us but
               | we didn't listen.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA
               | 
               | https://www.goodfellow.com/usa/tin-foil-group
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Big Alumulumu is soon to be the market leader.
               | 
               | https://www.tiktok.com/@etong_winter_palikir/video/739554
               | 877...
        
               | whycome wrote:
               | I heard it doesn't even contain tin!
        
               | burnt-resistor wrote:
               | Total enshittification with this pure aluminium shit. The
               | hats don't block government UFO mind control waves and
               | hold their shape nearly as well as the tin ones did.
               | Fucking private equity ruins everything.
        
             | anonym29 wrote:
             | >I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything else than
             | making money), but there are plenty of (state) actors that
             | can influence the decision-making at Microsoft when it
             | comes to these issues.
             | 
             | Microsoft the corporation may only care about making money,
             | but a lot of very high ranking folks within MS Security
             | aren't just friendly to intelligence agencies, they take
             | genuine pride in helping intelligence agencies. They're the
             | kinds of people who saw nothing wrong or objectionable with
             | PRISM whatsoever, they were just mad they got caught, and
             | that the end user (who they believe had no right to even
             | know about it) found out anyway. The kind of people who
             | openly defend the legitimacy of the FISA court.
             | 
             | This aren't baseless accusations, this comes from first-
             | hand experience interacting with and talking to several of
             | them. Charlie Bell literally kept a CIA mug on a shelf
             | behind him, prominently visible during Teams calls, as if
             | to brag.
             | 
             | Remember - Microsoft was the very first company on the
             | NSA's own internal slide deck depicting a timeline of PRISM
             | collection capabilities by platform, started all the way
             | back in 2007. All companies on that slide may have been
             | compelled to assist with national security letters. Some
             | were just more eager than others to betray the privacy and
             | trust of their own customers and end-users.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | It's quite possible TLAs plant employees inside important
               | tech companies. So not only are they sympathetic, they
               | directly work for them.
        
               | maxo133 wrote:
               | I can completely believe this.
               | 
               | I was always convinced that Skype was bought by microsoft
               | so CIA/US intelligence agencies to have listening
               | capabilities.
               | 
               | The first thing Microsoft did after the Skype purchase
               | was making it easier to tap into the calls by removing
               | p2p calling and routing calls using centralized servers.
        
               | vardump wrote:
               | Yeah. Otherwise Microsoft purchasing Skype made no sense.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | That's my experience with most computer security folks as
               | well, and tech companies who sell security products.
               | Cloak-and-dagger stuff running 24x7 in their heads.
        
               | anonym29 wrote:
               | There are quite a few extremely talented security folks
               | who are more or less the polar opposite, who view people
               | like Edward Snowden and Julian Assange as heroes, the NSA
               | as guilty of treason, as James Clapper as guilty of
               | perjury, even inside of corporations like Microsoft.
               | 
               | The catch is, views like those must be kept to a fairly
               | modest level by the people who hold them. Discussing them
               | with ideologically aligned colleagues may be fine, but
               | for example, when someone makes statements or asks
               | questions with such pro-privacy framing on stage directly
               | to security leadership at internal company conferences,
               | that is a quick way to a severance package not only for
               | the person on stage, but also for dozens of folks in the
               | audience who clapped a little too enthusiastically at the
               | onstage remarks.
        
             | balamatom wrote:
             | >I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything besides
             | making mo' money)
             | 
             | If Microsoft amounts to a sentient entity (i.e. is able to
             | _care_ about things), we have a bigger problem.
             | 
             | If we put the wall of metaphor between us and that
             | interpretation, it still remains likely that "users
             | shielding themselves" is of primary concern to Microsoft's
             | bottom line.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained
           | by stupidity"
        
             | tux1968 wrote:
             | I'm more convinced than ever that this aphorism has it
             | completely backwards.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | It was probably true at some point, then malicious people
               | learned how to fake stupidity and they outnumber actual
               | stupid people, and they learned how to recruit stupid
               | people to their causes.
        
               | xeonmc wrote:
               | Never attribute to incompetence that which is adequately
               | explained by profit motives.
        
               | subscribed wrote:
               | Or it's being spread by the malicious actors, like "money
               | doesn't buy happiness".
        
             | justin_oaks wrote:
             | When a company makes it impossible to correct their
             | stupidity, it's a malicious act. The behavior speaks loud
             | and clear: "We don't care what damage we do to developers
             | or users. And we don't want to hear about it."
        
             | BoredPositron wrote:
             | The guise of a harmless mistake has worn so thin and is so
             | overused by tech companies that I now only see deliberate
             | intent.
        
           | Macha wrote:
           | Alternatively they asked copilot to scan for crypto projects
           | and ban them
        
             | riskable wrote:
             | You think it would _succeed_ at that? Come on. Copilot is
             | for entertainment purposes only!
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Watching Microsoft try to dogfood Copilot is entertaining
               | to me, in a way.
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | https://techcrunch.com/2026/04/05/copilot-is-for-
               | entertainme...
               | 
               | At least it reached its goal if it entertained you
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | It is more likely that government doesn't want to allow
           | people to have privacy. Microsoft just obediently listen to
           | orders and execute them.
        
         | gib444 wrote:
         | Y'all need to form an alliance or something, get some press
         | coverage (wireguard, veracrypt, libreoffice)
        
           | duskdozer wrote:
           | True, but really even if it gets resolved for them it should
           | basically be a huge warning sign to everybody. Projects like
           | those might get reinstated but it would only be because of
           | how big they are that it would matter. Any person or small or
           | 'undesirable' project would not get the same resolution.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | I tried to set up a partner account for driver signing last
         | year (as a business entity) and it already seemed basically
         | impossible. I think they're getting ready to just simply not
         | allow it at all.
         | 
         | This is stupid. If Microsoft wants people to stop writing
         | kernel drivers, that's potentially doable (we just need
         | sufficient user mode driver equivalents...) but _not_ doing
         | that and also shortening the list of who can sign kernel
         | drivers down to some elite group of grandfathered companies and
         | individuals is the worst possible outcome.
         | 
         | But at this point I almost wish they didn't fix it, just to
         | drive home the point harder to users how little they really own
         | their computer and OS anymore.
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | I think it's intentional, those encryption (at rest/transit)
         | applications are outside of MS control and you can assume
         | outside of potential backdoors by three letters agencies,
         | bitlocker vs veracrypt? Of course bitlocker is favorable from
         | their perspective.
         | 
         | I wouldn't be surprised if NSA already had a list of these
         | applications and the strategies on how to cripple them or
         | worse, compromise them.
        
           | nelox wrote:
           | Or found they've been compromised by someone else? ;)
        
         | pocksuppet wrote:
         | The other day I tried to create a Github account and was
         | repeatedly told I am fraudulent. Nothing else. Try again later,
         | it says.
         | 
         | This is the same thing that's happened every time I've tried to
         | have a Microsoft account. I don't think Microsoft wants to have
         | customers who aren't rich.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Maybe some bot signed up using your email and then did bot
           | things on it. I've had that happen a lot over the years. My
           | Microsoft account is still stuck in German because that's the
           | language the bot used when creating the account (to spam
           | X-Box apparently).
        
             | hirako2000 wrote:
             | I got a 20y old hotmail/live account deleted by Microsoft
             | because a bot tried to reset my password too many times.
             | Considering the magnitude of the targeted attack, MS found
             | the safest way to keep me secure was to wipe my account.
             | That way the attacker could not get into my account.
        
               | reincarnate0x14 wrote:
               | I had something similar with a 6-letter apple account
               | that has never been compromised but I guess got put on
               | some kind of list, because I had to go through account
               | recovery almost every time I logged in, which wasn't a
               | big deal until I got an iphone. Apple support was
               | completely useless. Random old buried forum post in a
               | stall marked "beware the leopard" mentioned the behavior
               | and suggested changing the account name.
               | 
               | Nothing in the Apple site or phone stuff would even clue
               | the user in to what was happening, much less how to
               | resolve it.
        
           | octoberfranklin wrote:
           | Same here with github.
        
         | tssva wrote:
         | Has your Apple account been suspended for the last few years?
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > what if there were some critical RCE in WireGuard, being
         | exploited in the wild, and I needed to update users
         | immediately?
         | 
         | Honestly, anyone still using Windows probably deserves it.
        
         | iamnothere wrote:
         | Surprised to see you here. Thanks for all your hard work.
         | 
         | Windows users are in a tough spot, but with the dawn of
         | Copilot, nobody should be surprised. Frankly, those who remain
         | with Windows after this latest betrayal have chosen their fate.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | > those who remain with Windows after this latest betrayal
           | have chosen their fate.
           | 
           | Ah. So almost every single business in the world... suckers?
        
             | croes wrote:
             | Given MS' track record, yes
        
             | gzread wrote:
             | Yes.
        
             | serf wrote:
             | are you making an argument that businesses worldwide
             | somehow are known to make well thought-out, rational, wise
             | decisions that are in best interest for the business and
             | efficiency of running it?
             | 
             | because most managers I know in my professional life go
             | with the vendor that buys them dinner or slips them tickets
             | for box seats.
        
         | zx2c4 wrote:
         | Encouraged by this thread, I tweeted about it:
         | https://x.com/EdgeSecurity/status/2041872931576299888
        
           | varun_ch wrote:
           | If someone was a bad actor, right now would be a pretty good
           | time to start exploiting zero days in WireGuard...
        
         | ninjagoo wrote:
         | It has been clear for a while that certain providers and
         | services need to be regulated as utilities - Microsoft, Google,
         | Apple, Visa, Mastercard, and soon Openai and Anthropic.
         | 
         | It should be illegal for these companies, just like utilities,
         | to deny service to anyone or any entity in good standing for
         | dues.
         | 
         | There is little hope for getting this through in the US where
         | most politicians of any stripe hate the public, and the ones
         | that don't have hardly any power. But it might be possible to
         | do this in the EU.
         | 
         | Then, we non-EU folks need to apply for Estonian e-residency
         | [1] which may get us EU regulatory coverage.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Residency_of_Estonia
        
           | prox wrote:
           | We need a law that a human representative can be spoken to
           | within 24 hours or directly when something critical happens.
           | 
           | Also "there is no appeal possible" should be plain illegal.
        
             | gzread wrote:
             | In the EU, under GDPR, it is legally required to explain
             | automated profiling.
        
               | emsixteen wrote:
               | How's that work? Got a link handy to explain to a dummy?
        
               | buzer wrote:
               | Article 13(2)(f)
               | 
               | "In addition to the information referred to in paragraph
               | 1, the controller shall, at the time when personal data
               | are obtained, provide the data subject with the following
               | further information necessary to ensure fair and
               | transparent processing: the existence of automated
               | decision-making, including profiling, referred to in
               | Article 22(1) and (4) and, at least in those cases,
               | meaningful information about the logic involved, as well
               | as the significance and the envisaged consequences of
               | such processing for the data subject."
               | 
               | EDPB Guidelines on automated decision making:
               | https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/article29/items/612053
               | especially page 25 is relevant
               | 
               | C-634/21 is also somewhat relevant to understand how
               | courts have applied ADM in general context of credit
               | reporting https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-
               | content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A... though it didn't specify
               | what information actually needs to provided for 13(2)(f).
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | We have a EU dev we tried to have submit a GDPR request
               | for human review on something on Facebook.
               | 
               | There's no apparent mechanism to do so. Support was
               | clueless. The privacy email address responded weeks later
               | with "not out department".
        
               | estimator7292 wrote:
               | That's because the correct department is legal. GDPR is a
               | legal mechanism, not a support and privacy thing.
               | 
               | "I'm doing it wrong and it doesn't work" means you're
               | doing it wrong, not that it doesn't work.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Even Facebook calls them "privacy rights".
               | 
               | And https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/178402648024363
               | doesn't work either. Black hole, as far as I can
               | determine.
               | 
               | Their chatbot, when asked, sends you to
               | https://help.meta.com/support/privacy/ and says:
               | 
               | > To submit a GDPR objection request on Facebook, you can
               | use the Privacy Rights Request channel.
               | 
               | > Select Facebook as the product you want to submit an
               | objection about.
               | 
               | > Choose the option "How can I object to the use of my
               | information" and follow the instructions.
               | 
               | But that option doesn't exist.
        
             | beng-nl wrote:
             | I understand the sentiment, but.. do you realize how much
             | more expensive that would make all these services?
             | 
             | I don't know the number. But personally I think using the
             | services and 'simply' only use them if the disappearance
             | isn't catastrophic and have the price be low or free while
             | it works isn't too bad a trade-off.
             | 
             | Admittedly that's a big 'if.'
        
               | _imnothere wrote:
               | They sure do earn enough money to afford whatever number
               | that is on your mind.
        
               | rangerelf wrote:
               | If it's impossible for a service provider to even talk to
               | its customers, why is it in operation at all?
        
               | thefounder wrote:
               | I don't think they would be so much more expensive but
               | they would be less profitable for sure and perhaps less
               | "innovative" as a big chunk of the profit will go into
               | regulation stuff.
        
               | prox wrote:
               | These are usually multi billion dollar companies, they'll
               | be fine, stop worrying about them.
               | 
               | Start worrying about the erosion of your rights as a
               | consumer.
        
               | chromacity wrote:
               | > I understand the sentiment, but.. do you realize how
               | much more expensive that would make all these services?
               | 
               | It wouldn't. For example, before Gmail, email was often
               | free or nearly free (bundled with your internet service),
               | but in most cases, you could talk to a human if you had
               | issues with the service.
               | 
               | What we couldn't do is turn these business models into
               | planetary-scale behemoths that rake in hundreds of
               | billions of dollars in revenue. In essence, you couldn't
               | have Google or Facebook with good customer support. I'm
               | not here to argue that Google or Facebook are a net
               | negative, but the trade-offs here are different from what
               | you describe.
        
               | harel wrote:
               | Honestly, it's not our problem. Once a service becomes so
               | vital it cannot be terminated without any meaningful
               | process. My meta developer account is suspended and none
               | of my appeals are responded to . Who can I talk to?
               | Nobody. It's wrong.
        
               | alemanek wrote:
               | That is the wrong way to look at it.
               | 
               | If this requirement was in place they would be a bit more
               | careful about terminating accounts because the cost
               | equation would incentivize it. Maybe they would be more
               | careful in their automation or require more than one
               | level of human review before cutting off access.
               | 
               | These companies are gatekeepers for their platform. It
               | isn't crazy to require them to act more responsibly.
        
               | amluto wrote:
               | These services are designed such that security sort of
               | depends on reviewing the programs that are allowed to
               | run. Microsoft, Google and Apple all do this. It adds
               | expense, annoyance, limitations, and really very little
               | security.
               | 
               | The contrasting approach, where one designs a platform
               | that remains secure even if the owner is allowed to run
               | whatever software they like, may be more complex but is
               | overall much better. There aren't many personal-use
               | systems like this, but systems like AWS take this
               | approach and generally do quite well with it.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | > _The contrasting approach, where one designs a platform
               | that remains secure even if the owner is allowed to run
               | whatever software they like_
               | 
               | There's a lot that one can gripe about Amazon as a
               | company about, but credit where credit is due -- their
               | inversion of responsibility is game-changing.
               | 
               | You see this around the company, back to their "Accept
               | returns without question" days of mail order.
               | 
               | Most critically, this inversion turns customer experience
               | problems (it's the customer's problem) into _Amazon_
               | problems.
               | 
               | Which turns fixing them into Amazon's responsibility.
               | 
               | Want return rates to go down because the blanket approval
               | is costing the company too much money? Amazon should fix
               | that problem.
               | 
               | Too often companies (coughGoogleMicrosoftMetacough) set
               | up feedback loops where the company is insulated from
               | customer pain... and then everyone is surprised when the
               | company doesn't allocate resources to fix the underlying
               | issue.
               | 
               | If false positive account bans were required to be
               | remediated manually by the same team who owned automated
               | banning, we'd likely see different corporate response.
        
               | zelphirkalt wrote:
               | Even if they somehow were so expensive, that it would no
               | longer scale to their size, that is still not our problem
               | and if anything, a sign that either they need to improve
               | their systems, or simply cannot be as big as they are.
               | Shit happens, scale down, I won't cry for them.
        
               | HackerThemAll wrote:
               | Look how much profit Microsoft made last year.
               | 
               | "Financially, it was a year of record performance.
               | Revenue was $281.7 billion, up 15 percent. Operating
               | income grew 17 percent to $128.5 billion." https://www.mi
               | crosoft.com/investor/reports/ar25/index.html
               | 
               | So don't be so naive to tell us that 1-2 additional
               | people to handle the appeal process is anything but
               | rounding error in their balance sheet.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | MS could literally double their global employee count
               | with a fraction of what they spend on AI annually.
        
             | burnt-resistor wrote:
             | Technofeudalism is what happens when grossly under-
             | regulated anarcho-capitalism dominates rather than
             | sustainable, more ordinary capitalism where government
             | regulation is the supreme, minimized biased arbiter that
             | keeps things fairer and sensible for the benefit of the
             | many rather than the benefit of the few.
        
           | miohtama wrote:
           | If it is regulated as a utility, the government will want to
           | ban these hacking tools.
        
             | JoshTriplett wrote:
             | Agreed. Be careful what you wish for.
        
             | zelphirkalt wrote:
             | I think the GP is relating to MS services and accounts as
             | utilities that should not be possible to be taken away
             | easily, not about Wireguard.
        
           | x0x0 wrote:
           | I've gotten business verification for Microsoft before. The
           | kind you need in order to get certain oauth scopes for their
           | O365 platform.
           | 
           | Do not discount complete, total, utter, profound fucking
           | incompetence as the driving reason behind this.
           | 
           | Getting the business verification was an astounding shitshow.
           | With a registered C corp and everything, massively unclear
           | instructions, UI nestled in a partner site with tons of dead
           | ends. And then even after all the docs, it took _another_
           | week because -- in an action that nobody could possibly have
           | ever foreseen -- we had two different microsoft accounts due
           | to a cofounder buying ONE LICENSE of O365 for excel and doing
           | domain verification because it suggested it.
        
           | NewsaHackO wrote:
           | It always weird to see how dichotomy of some people saying AI
           | will never be profitable and are doomed to fail and others
           | saying that they are such a essential public service that
           | they are a utility and should be subject to government
           | regulation. Hopefully they are not the same group of people,
           | but I suspect there is a greater overlap that one would
           | expect.
        
             | jonathanstrange wrote:
             | I'm not one of those people but want to point out that
             | there isn't much of a contradiction there. I don't know if
             | hospitals, universities, train tracks, roads, and libraries
             | technically speaking count as utilities but they overall
             | don't seem to be profitable and at the same time are
             | extremely desirable for a society and an economy to have.
             | AI could turn out to be of the same sort.
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | I have a feeling, that the resolve to do something about it
           | is waning in the EU, because of the plans to soften up the
           | GDPR.
        
           | nostrademons wrote:
           | It would not surprise me if these actions are coming at the
           | requests of governments. Strong encryption is one of the few
           | things that challenges their monopoly on information; they
           | have a very strong incentive to apply political pressure to
           | the maintainers of these projects to, well, stop maintaining
           | the projects. We've seen this in overt actions that the EU
           | takes; in more covert actions that the U.S. government is
           | suspected of taking; and in the news headlines about third-
           | world dictatorships that just shut off the Internet. Tech
           | companies are perhaps the most convenient leverage point for
           | these actions.
           | 
           | More regulation won't help here, because the regulation-maker
           | is itself the hostile party.
           | 
           | What would help is full control over the supply chain.
           | Hardware that you own, free and open-source operating systems
           | where no single person is the bottleneck to distribution, and
           | free software that again has no single person who is a
           | failure point and no way to control its distribution.
        
             | aeternum wrote:
             | >More regulation won't help here, because the regulation-
             | maker is itself the hostile party.
             | 
             | It's easy to paint the big gov as bad, but this is a case
             | where unfortunately the populace seems to be in agreement
             | with the big bad gov. While most US citizens support
             | encryption, 76% or so, the vast majority 63% also favor
             | government "backdoor" access for national security reasons.
             | 
             | I guess either we believe in democracy or we don't. It
             | could be said that if Veracrypt isn't/can't be backdoor'd,
             | perhaps the gov is simply implementing the will of the
             | people :( via Microsoft.
        
               | koliber wrote:
               | Tyranny of majority is a thing. It's something mature
               | democracies are aware of and have the ability to defend
               | against.
               | 
               | We're in an interesting spot here and the tension is
               | tangible.
        
               | phatfish wrote:
               | What does democracy have to do with electronic
               | encryption? Democracy existed before computers.
               | 
               | There are legitimate reasons for governments to intercept
               | information, with the correct oversight -- enforced
               | legally in an "checks and balances" manner. The fact that
               | there is a breakdown of trust between government and
               | people won't be solved with more encryption.
        
               | aeternum wrote:
               | A core tenet of Truecrypt + Veracrypt (developer
               | guarantee) has always been no backdoors, even if
               | requested by government.
               | 
               | If in a democratic society, the majority agrees that
               | government should have backdoors (with the correct
               | oversight). Then it follows that Veracrypt should be
               | illegal as its use is not in alignment with the will of
               | the majority.
               | 
               | I personally don't agree with the majority here but can
               | you fault the logic?
        
             | francosimon wrote:
             | VLayer (my project) scans healthcare codebases for HIPAA
             | compliance issues before they reach production. One thing I
             | learned building it: developers rarely think about
             | encryption until it's too late. Tools like VeraCrypt solve
             | the "data at rest" problem, but the bigger issue in
             | healthcare software is unencrypted data in logs and API
             | responses -- stuff that's much harder to audit manually.
        
             | andai wrote:
             | So like, TSMC, but syndicalist?
        
         | rsync wrote:
         | You said:
         | 
         | "Currently undergoing some sort of 60 days appeals process, but
         | who knows."
         | 
         | .. and the op said:
         | 
         | "I have tried to contact Microsoft through various channels but
         | I have only received automated replies and bots. I was unable
         | to reach a human."
         | 
         | ... which is a roundabout way of saying you did not spend
         | lawyer hours and you did not contact them through channels that
         | they cannot ignore: registered, physical mail, from a lawyer.
         | 
         | I'm sorry for these difficulties, truly, but don't tell me you
         | can't reach a human when you _most definitely can reach a
         | human_. From my own experience with an organization _at least
         | as calloused and indifferent as MS_ [1], as soon as I sent a
         | real, legal communication I had real live humans lining up to
         | talk to me.
         | 
         | [1] Pacific Gas and Electric
        
           | reincarnate0x14 wrote:
           | Microsoft hasn't managed to burn down entire towns (But
           | Copilot is probably working on it), so I suppose we do have
           | at least some kind of gauge of callousness to work off of
           | thanks to PG&E. Which was also the company behind that whole
           | slightly famous Erin Brockovich thing, amongst so very many
           | others.
           | 
           | Sometimes, it's both incompetence AND malice.
        
           | zx2c4 wrote:
           | No. The humans just said 60 days.
        
         | withinrafael wrote:
         | Will send some emails.
        
         | sellmesoap wrote:
         | With these big players who are regularly found supporting
         | people with evil intentions: Don't attribute to incompitence
         | what could be ascribed to malice, nay you must trust the gods
         | of the clouds to keep your secrets for you, all for the low low
         | price of $x.99 a month a seat, you may only cancel your service
         | with an arcaine dance and the sacrifice of your first born!
        
         | wolrah wrote:
         | Not exactly the same situation, but RustDesk has recently been
         | removed from the official WinGet community repository because
         | their automated scans have been blocking updates since v1.4.2
         | in September 2025.
         | 
         | https://github.com/rustdesk/rustdesk/discussions/13025
         | https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/pull/345601
         | 
         | tl;dr: ESET Antivirus flags RustDesk as a "Potentially Unsafe
         | Application" because it is a remote administration tool,
         | despite not flagging similar commercial products in the same
         | way, and the WinGet Community repo policy is to block anything
         | flagged as such. Since they were unable to update the repo the
         | RustDesk team requested that the older versions be removed to
         | prevent users from unknowingly installing old versions that
         | could potentially be a security issue in the future. Apparently
         | this has been an issue for a lot of applications especially in
         | the VPN and remote control categories.
         | 
         | There is a discussion about how best to handle these sorts of
         | situations where legitimate and desirable applications get
         | flagged as "potentially unsafe" or "potentially unwanted" but
         | so far it's just been a discussion with no actual changes
         | proposed yet.
         | 
         | https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli/issues/6107
        
         | Nuthen wrote:
         | Thank you for the extra visibility on this issue. I'm in the
         | exact same boat: account suspended, waiting for the 60 days
         | appeal process. Hopefully it will be resolved swiftly!
        
         | SergeAx wrote:
         | Is there a WireGuard version for Windows above 0.5.3 released
         | in 2021?!
        
           | zx2c4 wrote:
           | Hopefully soon, Microsoft-willing.
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | I saw a tweet saying that there's a requirement for
         | verification.
         | 
         | > Effective October 16, 2025, Microsoft will initiate mandatory
         | account verification for all partners in the Windows Hardware
         | Program who have not completed account verification since April
         | 2024.
         | 
         | > Partners who fail to complete Account Verification by the
         | deadline, or who do not meet the requirements, will have their
         | status set to Rejected and will be suspended from the program.
         | 
         | https://x.com/shanselman/status/2041974138253013205
        
         | observationist wrote:
         | /tinfoil time
         | 
         | 60 days, long enough for the US to exploit the vulnerabilities
         | discovered by Claude Mythos, short enough to plausibly be
         | bureaucratic corporate awfulness by Microsoft when all is said
         | and done. Basically freezing you and other security software
         | out of protecting the bad guys they particularly want to get at
         | until after the bad guys get got, then everything goes back to
         | normal and Microsoft says "oops, here, we fixed your access."
        
       | tomgag wrote:
       | Sorry to hear about this turn of events, but it was pretty much
       | to be expected given the way the world is turning, and Microsoft
       | being Microsoft.
       | 
       | Switch to Linux if you can, and come give Shufflecake a try ;)
       | 
       | https://shufflecake.net/
        
         | LWIRVoltage wrote:
         | .... This deserves it's own posts , on HN, just for awareness-
         | 
         | Aside from
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20250914062843/https://portswigg...
         | , there haven't been really many goes at going for plausible
         | deniability with modern systems, and I see the segment about a
         | Hidden OS feature in work as well.
         | 
         | Hoping this succeeds. Funny, eventually Shufflecake, after it
         | gets fully capable on Linux, might have to look at making
         | versions for Windows and Mac
        
       | 8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote:
       | Seeing this kind of friction makes me more confident in
       | VeraCrypt. The tools that never seem to run into trouble with
       | platform gatekeepers are the ones I'd worry about.
        
         | Pay08 wrote:
         | That seems like a very nonsensical stance.
        
           | pocksuppet wrote:
           | Well look at something like ANOM. The FBI encouraged its use.
           | Because it was run by the FBI and they could see all the
           | private messages.
           | 
           | If Veracrypt was a honeypot, the powers that be would go out
           | of their way to make it as easy to use as possible. They'd
           | instantly sack whoever made this decision, and reverse it.
        
             | Pay08 wrote:
             | So is coreutils a honeypot?
        
         | baobabKoodaa wrote:
         | The biggest risk in encryption software is that you lose access
         | to your data. You seem to be ignoring that risk completely and
         | focusing on something else entirely.
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | I don't think you would loose access. You can always recover
           | data on an open platform such as Linux.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | And yet another example of companies turning actively hostile
       | against their users.
       | 
       | The burden of usage/access is now solely on the customers and the
       | feeling is that regular customers are just a nuisance to be
       | ignored.
        
       | avaer wrote:
       | Forced software signing should be illegal.
        
         | Pay08 wrote:
         | It's not forced, especially for normal software, you just get a
         | popup. It's a bit of a pain to disable the requirement for
         | drivers, though.
        
           | baobabKoodaa wrote:
           | I don't think you can install VeraCrypt, at least for system
           | encryption, unless the installer is signed
        
             | Pay08 wrote:
             | According to further up the thread, you can if you disable
             | secureboot.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | And you mess with your boot.ini and ignore that half your
               | screen is taken up by a TEST MODE banner. Buy a screen
               | twice as big and tape over half of it, I guess.
        
       | kwar13 wrote:
       | very much sounds like microsoft
        
       | Topfi wrote:
       | Honest question, did we ever get an answer what was the cause for
       | the sudden change from the original Truecrypt developer?
       | 
       | Even if one doesn't want to maintain that project for purely
       | private reasons, recommending Bitlocker as the drop-in-
       | replacement always made it smell fishy to me.
        
         | abcd_f wrote:
         | It's more or less commonly accepted that its creator got jailed
         | for being an arms dealer.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux
        
           | Topfi wrote:
           | I knew the speculation on him being involved in some
           | capacity, but as the wiki page states, this was never
           | confirmed in any substantial way.
           | 
           | More importantly, if development seized with no public
           | comment, that would be one thing and may strengthen the "he
           | got arrested" theory. However, there was some final
           | communication, specific recommendations to rely on Bitlocker
           | of all things, a new version of Truecrypt was released solely
           | for decrypting existing disks and then the web page was
           | removed, including a flag set on robots.txt to ensure it
           | wouldn't appear on archive.org. All this concurrent to a
           | crowd funded source code audit that, in the end, did not find
           | any server issues or backdoors (I recall some speculation
           | back in the day, that either known code quality issues or an
           | intentional backdoor could have caused the exodus).
           | 
           | That all makes it hard to link this to an arrest of the main
           | developer, though I dislike speculation without any hard
           | evidence and if there is no new information, I'll keep this
           | filed under "there is no answer".
        
             | Izmaki wrote:
             | I always believed that rather than publicly stating that
             | they were about to be arrested or worse, which may alert
             | regular, non-tech-savy people, he sent a hidden message in
             | the arguably horrendous recommendation of replacing his
             | tool with BitLocker.
             | 
             | I think he was trying to scream "Run!" without actually
             | screaming "run".
        
             | _boffin_ wrote:
             | Wasn't there something with 7.1A and that the canary was
             | gone after that version too?
        
           | diath wrote:
           | Makes you wonder what kind of leverage/information you have
           | to have to only get 25 years for admitting to being involved
           | in 7 murders.
        
             | pnw wrote:
             | According to Wikipedia, the DEA gave him immunity on
             | additional charges in return for pleading guilty and
             | running a sting against his associates, but before the DEA
             | knew about the murders.
        
           | Jerrrrrrrry wrote:
           | One of the greatest men of our times.
        
           | badocr wrote:
           | My theory is that Le Roux was just financing the (two?)
           | TrueCrypt developers.
        
           | JoshGlazebrook wrote:
           | > He subsequently admitted to arranging or participating in
           | seven murders, carried out as part of an extensive illegal
           | business empire.
           | 
           | Yikes
        
         | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
         | likely chose to shut down rather than bend over, same as
         | Lavabit a year prior. I find it more plausible than the other
         | theory.
        
           | Topfi wrote:
           | Fair assumption, but unlike Lava, TC never had customer/user
           | data. The NSL/forced shut down theories also make little
           | sense to me however, the fork was up by the end of the week
           | and was easy to foresee. Kinda why this fascinates me so
           | much, no theory I ever read survives basic scrutiny. Perhaps
           | some things, we'll never know.
        
             | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Torvalds#Linux_kernel_st
             | a...
             | 
             | >When my oldest son [Linus Torvalds] was asked the same
             | question: "Has he been approached by the NSA about
             | backdoors?" he said "No", but at the same time he nodded.
             | Then he was sort of in the legal free. He had given the
             | right answer, [but] everybody understood that the NSA had
             | approached him.
             | 
             | so the assumption here is that TC were also asked to accept
             | "contributions" from bioluminescent individuals, and chose
             | not to. "just use Bitlocker" was a deafeningly loud
             | dogwhistle, don't you think?
        
           | jug wrote:
           | I went on a Wikipedia dive and discovered this funny bit
           | regarding the court process surrounding Lavabit and FBI's
           | desire of the TLS private keys.
           | 
           | > The contempt of court was caused by Levison providing the
           | keys printed in a tiny (4 point) font, which was deemed
           | "largely illegible" by an FBI motion, which went on to
           | complain that "To make use of these keys, the FBI would have
           | to manually input all 2560 characters, and one incorrect
           | keystroke in this laborious process would render the FBI
           | collection system incapable of collecting decrypted data."
           | 
           | (And to be clear, that's all they ever saw of said keys)
        
             | pas wrote:
             | > The court ordered Levison to be fined $5,000 a day
             | beginning 6 August until he handed over electronic copies
             | of the keys. Two days later Levison handed over the keys
             | hours after he shuttered Lavabit.
        
               | trinsic2 wrote:
               | I remember that. That was around the time they were using
               | the National Security Letter to make things happen that
               | were clearly illegal. Now look at where we are at. They
               | are using Nation Security reasoning for anything.
        
             | bornfreddy wrote:
             | That's just stupid. Take 10 people, each enters the data
             | independently, compare their versions and select the most
             | common of each character. With 1 second per character they
             | would finish in an hour, coffee break included. They just
             | didn't want to bother.
        
         | no_time wrote:
         | I would also like to know why is it excluded from Archive.org
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20260000000000*/https://www.true...
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | This can be done by Archive.org doing it for whatever reason
           | (asked, on their own, etc) or it can be triggered by the
           | current owner of the domain modifying robots.txt I believe.
        
             | T-A wrote:
             | Yes: https://gist.github.com/danielhickman/38d6c7599d71c3e7
             | dc48ca...
        
         | newsoftheday wrote:
         | Agreed, that whole thing was suspicious. I still use TrueCrypt,
         | because of the suspicious nature of how it all went down.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | This is always a problem when big mega-corporations are involved,
       | be it Google or Microsoft. They want to control the platform.
       | 
       | We really need viable solutions. I have been using Linux since
       | +21 years or so, so it does not affect me personally, but I think
       | Linux needs to become really a LOT more accessible to normal
       | people. And it really has not (on the desktop); all the various
       | "improvements" on GNOME3 or KDE are basically pointless, they
       | have not solved the underlying problem. Ideally problems should
       | be auto-resolvable. If someone wants to use the proprietary
       | nvidia driver, that should be a single click - on ALL Linux
       | distributions. Instead you see some distributions have their own
       | ad-hoc solution and other distributions have no easy solution
       | (for simple people).
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | I will continue to suppose that the "real issue" with Linux is
         | that the people drawn to developing it will not work well with
         | others and continue year after year to waste time and
         | duplication of effort on five decent, and ten thousand
         | pointless distributions.
         | 
         | Whatever reason for this refusal / inability / choice to not
         | contribute but rather re-create is on the reader to assume.
         | 
         | There is very little effort put into real progress as you point
         | out. Sure, tons of work to move from x11 to Wayland, cool, only
         | the developers give a shit... where is Office/365 that would
         | make daily driving actually viable?
         | 
         | While WINE is impressive, it seems the only real progress for
         | anything past Windows 7 is on paid versions of which there are
         | at least three competing options.
         | 
         | Linux Desktop progress is slow because there it's thousands of
         | floundering side-projects without a goal of actually pulling
         | normal users in.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | I'm sorry, is this some sort of Windows joke that I'm too Linux
       | to understand?
        
       | no_time wrote:
       | prediction: they are testing the waters. If there is enough
       | outcry they will go "oopsie whoopsie, hehe :3 your account is
       | restored".
       | 
       | If there isn't enough outcry they will go forward and disable
       | more signing keys related to things like torrent clients, VPN
       | software, eject UBO from the edge store etc etc.
       | 
       | Atleast now I'm a bit more certain that VC is indeed safe.
        
         | superxpro12 wrote:
         | They've finally sprung their enshittification trap. Their move
         | into "open source" was never of friendly origin. It was a
         | business move, plain and simple.
         | 
         | And now they're locking down Window OS, hard. Expect github and
         | vscode to follow.
        
           | trinsic2 wrote:
           | I left GitHub for GitLab because i knew this was coming.
        
       | hernanhumana wrote:
       | cool project
        
       | 0xCE0 wrote:
       | Linux is the only hope at this point for the future of computing.
       | 
       | Windows and macOS are just too risky to do any business with.
       | Waste of all resources.
        
         | cguess wrote:
         | and yet... still unusable by the mass majority of people.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | My kids grew up on Gnome essentially, I can tell you Win11 is
           | a lot more confusing to them, not just because because they
           | grew up on Gnome, there is just so much more ... stuff. And
           | notifications and flashy things and news and weather apps and
           | they all want your attention. Gnome is much more iPadOS like
           | (minus that horrible concoction called the App Store).
           | 
           | Sure, if you're all in on MS365 (like all schools here in the
           | Netherlands), Windows may be somewhat more handy with its
           | native apps and all your stuff there with a single log-in.
        
             | cguess wrote:
             | And someone once raised their kids speaking Klingon, that
             | isn't a good excuse on why it's a language others should
             | use.
             | 
             | For the vast majority of people MS365 is a requirement, but
             | really the issue is that even minor fixes require the
             | command line on Linux and that makes it unusable.
        
               | teekert wrote:
               | I guess it means that even when something is (arguably)
               | objectively more simple, people still won't bdge just
               | because they don't want change. They don't want to learn
               | new things.
               | 
               | I myself am quite different. I have thoroughly had it
               | with my current iPhone and am eyeballing /e/OS, before
               | that I really started to find Android boring, before that
               | Windows mobile (the nice one with the cards). I switch
               | Gnome, KDE, some other DE (now getting ready to try Niri)
               | every year or 2. I don't get the struggle, for me a new
               | env is like a present (even though I normally hate
               | presents). So much niceness to explore, so much to
               | optimize. I love it. But I'm also one of those guys that
               | reads the oven manual and tries all functions in week 1.
               | 
               | I'm not weird, all you people are weird.
        
               | Pay08 wrote:
               | No, it means that people have requirements that Linux
               | does not fulfill. I need the Office suite, and would
               | rather not gamble with the various compatibility promises
               | made by alternatives.
        
               | trinsic2 wrote:
               | Good luck with that.
        
               | dartharva wrote:
               | None of this is true
        
               | newsoftheday wrote:
               | > For the vast majority of people MS365 is a requirement
               | 
               | No it isn't actually, not for the majority, my wife
               | (former Sales Person and Manager) uses Google office
               | tools and used LibreOffice Write and Calc for years
               | successfully.
        
           | tapoxi wrote:
           | This isn't really true anymore with the advent of Flatpak &
           | Flathub. It's just an app store like any other platform. Even
           | the majority of games work without tweaking.
        
             | cguess wrote:
             | I've run Linux as a daily driver recently Flatpak and
             | Flathub still break all the time. Not to mention the last
             | time I bumped my Nvidia drivers nothing decided to open
             | anymore.
             | 
             | Any OS that requires even _once_ going to the command line
             | is unusable for 99% of the population (and for me I just
             | shouldn 't ever have to).
        
               | raudette wrote:
               | I hit this recently - nVidia issues with a Flatpak, I
               | spent about half an hour on it, gave up, and just decided
               | to try the app out on another laptop.
        
           | megous wrote:
           | Not used does not mean not usable. Primary school aged
           | children used MS-DOS without any documentation in 1990's.
           | Pretty sure randomly selected people would be able to use
           | modern Linux distro, when pre-installed just like windows
           | are.
        
           | WarmWash wrote:
           | Linux is stuck because it's made and maintained by people who
           | love linux.
           | 
           | Look at popular unix based OS's - Android, MacOS, iOS..
           | 
           | Whats the first thing they do? Take the command line out back
           | and shoot it. Whereas for linux users, their is this l33t
           | h4cker festishization of only using a keyboard to do
           | everything. All these distros have an extremely robust CLI
           | under the hood, and an afterthought quasi GUI on the surface.
           | Just good enough for grandma to check her email and watch
           | youtube.
        
             | PokestarFan wrote:
             | MacOS has a good CLI if you need to use it. There are CLI
             | equivalents for a lot of the system setting/administration
             | stuff.
        
             | hparadiz wrote:
             | Why do folks act like windows isn't full of cli commands?
             | First thing on any windows box is running debloat in
             | powershell. Installing apps from a gui in Linux has been
             | solved for a long time.
        
               | WarmWash wrote:
               | Having an excellent CLI doesn't preclude having an
               | excellent GUI. No reason we can't have both.
               | 
               | Also I hate linux repos with a passion, because they are
               | optimized for CLI usuage, and (like the whole OS) the GUI
               | parts are a total unoptimized afterthought. Never mind
               | that they are a dumping ground for whatever code anyone
               | shits out, with virtually zero management or curation.
               | With a CLI you don't see this, with a GUI it's a total
               | mess.
               | 
               | I'm fine with app stores, but they need to be actively
               | managed and curated. If not, I far far prefer just
               | downloading .exe's from the source.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | > whatever code anyone shits out
               | 
               | downloading an exe is "whatever code anyone shits out"
               | cause that's exactly what built binaries are
               | 
               | A lot of the programs you use on Windows are actually the
               | exact same ones on Linux be it VLC or Chrome. If you want
               | to download binaries directly "from the source" and run
               | those.... well that was always allowed. But remember the
               | entire stack delivering the entire internet to you at any
               | time is open source code that "anyone shits out".
               | 
               | distros are catering to server installs most of the time.
               | if you want a gui you install that entire stack but for
               | most classic distros like debian the GUI is not the main
               | thing. if you want a GUI from start to finish go with
               | Fedora or the new KDE distro.
        
               | WarmWash wrote:
               | I want a linux distro that seasoned windows users can
               | slide right into, so we can actually get droves of people
               | leaving windows.
        
             | goolz wrote:
             | I have had Bazzite on my gaming PC for a while now, never
             | have to mess with the terminal much. It has come a long,
             | long way. Even gentoo has become more accessible than ever.
             | While some of this holds true, you most certainly do not
             | need to live in the command line with some of these
             | distros. Especially if you are just trying to play some
             | games and browse the web, etc.
        
             | kbelder wrote:
             | >Just good enough for grandma to check her email and watch
             | youtube.
             | 
             | Which is 90% of the use of a computer. And Steam is taking
             | care of the other 10%.
        
             | newsoftheday wrote:
             | > Whereas for linux users
             | 
             | My wife has used Linux for many years successfully and has
             | never used the CLI once.
        
               | WarmWash wrote:
               | So has my grandma
        
             | filchermcurr wrote:
             | Good. I'm sure this is a controversial take in our brave
             | new world, but not everything has to be aimed at the lowest
             | common denominator. It's refreshing to have something that
             | isn't dumbed down for "the average user" and forces people
             | to actually learn how to do something for a change.
             | 
             | I hope Linux never succumbs to the lowest common
             | denominator and people who actually enjoy tinkering will
             | always have somewhere to go and something to learn. If
             | that's being stuck, I hope it stays stuck.
        
           | uyzstvqs wrote:
           | This is always said by people who either never touch the
           | Linux desktop, or exclusively use their own custom Arch
           | setup.
           | 
           | You can install Fedora Linux, Linux Mint or Manjaro, and it's
           | more user friendly than Windows 11 and macOS.
        
             | cguess wrote:
             | I compiled my first kernel at 13 (Mandrake, to age myself).
             | I've used all the distros you just listed and no, none of
             | them are close to as user friendly as at least MacOS. The
             | fact that there are "flavors" you have to list alone is way
             | too complicated and weird for most people.
             | 
             | For the vast majority of people an operating system is
             | whatever comes with the computer the kid at Best Buy told
             | them they should buy or their IT department gave them.
             | Asking anyone to switch is basically impossible.
        
           | sgbeal wrote:
           | >> Linux is the only hope at this point for the future of
           | computing.
           | 
           | Linux is the most obvious, but there are numerous flavors of
           | BSD as well.
           | 
           | > and yet... still unusable by the mass majority of people.
           | 
           | That info is 20+ years out of date. Distros like Suse and
           | Ubuntu made Linux "click, click, click, it's installed" more
           | than two decades ago. i've watched complete non-techies
           | switch to Mint Linux long-term, the only intervention from me
           | (their resident techie) being showing them how to boot up the
           | USB stick installer.
        
           | newsoftheday wrote:
           | My wife (former Sales Person and Manager) has used Linux for
           | many, many years and prefers it over Windows.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | Don't worry, US states are working on making Linux illegal
         | through age verification requirements in the OS.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | Isn't linux complaint because of the systemd change?
        
             | McGlockenshire wrote:
             | The only thing that systemd did was add a space and api to
             | store an attested birth date. That is what the entire
             | meltdown was about. A CRUD API.
             | 
             | Everything else about complying with the wacko age
             | verification law is up to distro builders.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Who knows maybe Valve can expand from just gaming?
        
       | trashface wrote:
       | Hope this is resolved. I guess I could run linux in a VM and
       | mount volumes there, but this is getting a bit dicey. But Win 10
       | is my last windows anyway.
        
       | folbec wrote:
       | I would not be surprised if it was some sort of AI driven
       | mistake.
       | 
       | Some guy somewhere deciding to delegate threat assessment to
       | Copilot or some other automated tool.
        
         | john_strinlai wrote:
         | i would bet a years salaray that you are correct. copilot or
         | some automated process. and then the message is automated with
         | an automated appeal-denial flow.
         | 
         | conspiracy theories are fun and all, but 99.99% of the time it
         | is just incompetence, miscommunication, etc.
        
       | mapontosevenths wrote:
       | Any chance this is the issue?
       | 
       | https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-itpro-blog/...
        
         | HumanOstrich wrote:
         | From TFA: "I have encountered some challenges but the most
         | serious one is that Microsoft terminated the account I have
         | used for years to sign Windows drivers and the bootloader."
        
           | mapontosevenths wrote:
           | Yeah, and the first comment beneath that mentions that the
           | most recent version is signed with the "2011 CA" that the
           | article I link to discusses being deprecated.
           | 
           | My guess was that he got caught up in some house-cleaning. My
           | theory being that he's still signing his code the way malware
           | authors also do and got flagged by some automated review
           | that's meant to force him to go get WHCP certified or
           | whatever the new route is.
        
             | HumanOstrich wrote:
             | The article you linked says the change is rolling out in
             | April in evaluation mode.
             | 
             | And if it were related to some kind of scan and malware
             | flagging, the cert would have been revoked. It is not.
        
               | mapontosevenths wrote:
               | Fair enough. Thanks for weighing in.
        
       | swordsith wrote:
       | if michalesoft wants to take away our ability to sign drivers,
       | they will find there is more than enough vulnerable easily
       | exploited drivers we can use that are pre-signed online. Thank
       | you micosawft!
        
         | HumanOstrich wrote:
         | Are you having a stroke?
        
           | c0balt wrote:
           | Most likely just intentionally misspelling the name in the
           | spirit of calling them Microslop.
        
             | deltoidmaximus wrote:
             | And perhaps the time they sued a kid named Mike Rowe for
             | having a website mikerowesoft.com
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | I think it's a reference to Michaelsoft Binbows :)
           | 
           | https://alf-s-
           | room.com/etc/nandarou/binbows/binbows_english....
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRIklga9IBQ
        
       | baobabKoodaa wrote:
       | Can someone please explain the implications for current Windows
       | users of VeraCrypt?
        
         | ratg13 wrote:
         | No new features, no security patches.
        
       | baobabKoodaa wrote:
       | Anyone here who could reach out to specific persons inside
       | Microsoft who could fix this?
        
       | satai wrote:
       | Microsoft can't be trusted.
       | 
       | Never was, isn't and I guess won't be.
        
       | not_a9 wrote:
       | https://community.osr.com/t/locked-out-of-microsoft-partner-...
       | Could be a related issue to this? Maybe Microsoft just doesn't
       | want driver developers for whatever reason.
        
         | superxpro12 wrote:
         | its my computer. its my os. i own it. I paid my money and
         | bought the program. not them. I am free to install whatever
         | software and modify whatever kernel components as i see fit.
         | 
         | I am so sick and tired of the continued erosion of the
         | ownership model. I dont want to rent anything. But corporations
         | see it as an avenue to increase revenue. We pay more, for less.
         | What else is new.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | So why don't you stop using the OS that has a completely
           | different approach to computing?
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | It's time to switch to Linux or another open OS.
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | Presumably it's part of their commitment to kill kernel
         | patching in Windows, to prevent another Worldwide Enterprise
         | Windows Outage Caused By A Buggy Vendor DLL event.
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | Most certainly it's related to this:
         | https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/hardware-dev-center...
        
       | steve1977 wrote:
       | If only there was a way to sign software and not depend on a
       | centralized authority, something like a... web of trust?
       | 
       | (and yes I know, you'd need to have the option to have "your"
       | (haha...) OS trust it of course)
        
       | Hizonner wrote:
       | This highlights the fact that not only is supporting Windows
       | dangerous to your project, but _using_ Windows is dangerous to
       | your security.
        
       | Tsarp wrote:
       | For folks looking for a much simpler single binary alternative.
       | 
       | https://github.com/srv1n/kurpod
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | This is not a replacement, as it has no native file system
         | integration, only a web interface.
        
           | Tsarp wrote:
           | Its not just a web interface. It creates a storage container
           | that can grow and be compacted on the fly is fully portable.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | If it doesn't have file system integration, you can't edit
             | files in it using regular software.
        
       | hereme888 wrote:
       | Besides Veracrypt, are there any real alternatives to Bitlocker
       | for total drive encryption in Windows?
        
         | bibimsz wrote:
         | run Windows as a VM in linux
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Microsoft continues to push for year of the Linux desktop
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | I run a dual boot of windows and am currently dauly-driving
       | CachyOS quite happily. I've been playing some Crimson desert and
       | got some occasional crashes... But any other game I have has run
       | smoothly.
       | 
       | Their GUI tools for package management are thin wrappers on CLI
       | tools, but are enough hand-holding that most people should
       | navigate it fine. More devices worked out of the box for my with
       | Linux than Windows.
       | 
       | Just like if you haven't tried AI in a year and have mocked it,
       | you need to try it again. Of you haven't tried Linux desktop in a
       | few years, you need to try again. CachyOS really does seem to
       | handle the driver installs and gaming compatibility well.
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | If you use Veracrypt on Windows then you have no idea what you
       | are doing. Windows is not safe. Use Linux only.
        
         | HackerThemAll wrote:
         | I would love to switch long time ago, but I make money on
         | Windows enterprise customers, using specific Windows tools that
         | have no reasonable Linux counterparts.
         | 
         | I'll throw my Windows laptop out of a (pun intended) window on
         | the exact second I'll secure viable and sustainable income
         | using Linux. I know it can be done, but so far it's outside of
         | my circles.
        
       | Izmaki wrote:
       | Reminds me of when users of TrueCrypt were urged to just install
       | BitLocker instead. Sus AF.
        
       | LWIRVoltage wrote:
       | What sucks about this, is due to implementation,Windows is the
       | only way to achieve some stuff in Veracrypt. For example: doing
       | full system partition encryption, and the Hidden OS install that
       | only Veracrypt can do- requires Windows with the computer set to
       | MBR rather than UEFU. I had hoped we'd see more of the plausible
       | deniability tech at the OS level
       | 
       | But aside from one or two experimental attempts, also presented
       | at BlackHat
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20250914062843/https://portswigg...
       | 
       | - the consumer has nearly lost access to high end plausible
       | deniability
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | > Windows is the only way to achieve some stuff in Veracrypt
         | 
         | On the other hand, if you get rid of Windows you don't even
         | need Veracrypt.
        
       | newsoftheday wrote:
       | First I was surprised to read the Veracrypt maintainers could be
       | in this situation, then read the top comment where Wireguard
       | maintainers are too (unless I misunderstood). Is this some
       | malicious new program inside Microsoft to try and shutdown open
       | source projects so they can push Windows products and solutions
       | more?
        
         | gzread wrote:
         | Yes.
        
         | NewsaHackO wrote:
         | It feels more like an automated block due to uncharacteristical
         | increase in download activity. Something that it seems more and
         | more companies are taking seriously is the cottage industry of
         | scams involving less technically savvy downloading apps online
         | and getting their information stolen. The motivation for this
         | is probably the same as Google stopping side loading. Take that
         | as you want.
        
           | subscribed wrote:
           | And how would blocking the devs ability to sign the new
           | version stop the spread of the already downloaded and still
           | available old version?
           | 
           | I think you forgot we're talking about the kernel drivers
           | specifically - normal scammers don't need that, they use
           | AnyConnect downloaded from Chrome.
           | 
           | I think you also forgot to read it all and missed that it was
           | supposedly some deanonymisation (ID verification) process
           | that kicked it off, and missed that the dev has immediately
           | verified themselves but then we're told they need to wait 2
           | months to wait.
           | 
           | Because.
           | 
           | It's not an automated process at this point.
        
       | lofaszvanitt wrote:
       | What about the guy who originally created it. Paul Le Roux, the
       | criminal mastermind? That's a wild story :D.
        
       | pjdesno wrote:
       | Interesting.
       | 
       | My only experience with Veracrypt is via a law firm I was
       | consulting with, who used it to protect some files they were
       | sharing with me. Law firm and their end client are both big,
       | prestigious companies.
        
       | idolofdust wrote:
       | Get off Windows right now.
       | 
       | The newest frontier AI models can easily find 0-days in all major
       | software stacks, while the two biggest open source security tools
       | on Windows can't even ship patches.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | Why is there no simple workaround for this? Why is it dead in the
       | water and why can't we use another mechanism to verify the update
       | files with SHA1? It's all been done before [1]. This would be an
       | improvement, as it enables the project to continue working
       | without any handcuffed relationship to Microsoft.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/HyperSine/Windows10-CustomKernelSigners
        
       | Ms-J wrote:
       | Posted this earlier from a throwaway since my account wasn't able
       | to reply for some odd reason and it was marked as dead:
       | 
       | Hello Jason!
       | 
       | I want to first thank you for all of your hard work developing
       | Wireguard.
       | 
       | If I can find someone who is willing to put their name on it to
       | help I definitely will, the problem is the spy agencies don't
       | want your project to exist. It makes it harder to put resources
       | to this. I've worked in security departments of certain companies
       | and saw everything you could imagine.
       | 
       | Same for Mounir over at Veracrypt.
       | 
       | Both of you are developing some of the most important software
       | that exists today.
       | 
       | Keep doing what you are doing by keeping everything in the open.
       | User trust almost doesn't exist for these type of projects. Any
       | hint of an issue would wipe that out in seconds.
       | 
       | This leads me to one question I do have for you zx2c4:
       | 
       | Why does Wireguard attempt to contact your servers and auto
       | update on Android with no toggle to turn this off? It's a threat
       | to everyone. Maybe it also does this on other platforms but I
       | haven't tested them all.
       | 
       | I can think of reasons as to why you did this, none nefarious,
       | but still it would be nice if you included that option so I don't
       | have to patch each update to turn this off.
       | 
       | Thanks.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Update from Scott Hanselman:
       | 
       | > _Hey I love dumping on my company as much as the next guy,
       | because Microsoft does some dumb stuff, but sometimes it 's just
       | check emails and verify your accounts._
       | 
       |  _Not every "WTF micro$oft" moment is a slam dunk. I've emailed
       | VeraCrypt personally and we'll get him unblocked. I've already
       | talked to Jason at WireGuard._
       | 
       |  _Not everything is a conspiracy, sometimes it 's literally
       | paperwork._
       | 
       | (https://x.com/shanselman/status/2041977121686585396
       | https://xcancel.com/shanselman/status/2041977121686585396)
        
       | francosimon wrote:
       | VLayer (my project) scans healthcare codebases for HIPAA
       | compliance issues before they reach production. One thing I
       | learned building it: developers rarely think about encryption
       | until it's too late. Tools like VeraCrypt solve the "data at
       | rest" problem, but the bigger issue in healthcare software is
       | unencrypted data in logs and API responses -- stuff that's much
       | harder to audit manually.
        
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