[HN Gopher] John Coltrane illustrates the mathematics of jazz
___________________________________________________________________
John Coltrane illustrates the mathematics of jazz
Author : luu
Score : 93 points
Date : 2026-04-07 05:58 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.americanjazzmusicsociety.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.americanjazzmusicsociety.com)
| taylorbuley wrote:
| I notice it's a double ring, not a single circle. Two concentric
| chromatic rings, offset. That's not decoration: the outer ring
| and inner ring are the same field read at a phase offset (looks
| like a tritone / minor-third rotation). Fault tolerance!
| contingencies wrote:
| Proto-supersaw!
| https://static1.squarespace.com/static/519a384ee4b0079d49c8a...
| SoleilAbsolu wrote:
| Actually appears to be 2 concentric whole-tone rings, not
| chromatic.
| rectang wrote:
| The Coltrane changes are great, but on the scale of other
| harmonic innovations over the years inside Jazz and other
| traditions. They aren't analogous to Einstein.
|
| What makes Giant Steps so amazing is the sheer speed at which
| those changes go past -- if you slow it down, it's not that
| different from other Jazz tunes. It took took years of practice
| for Coltrane to acquire the specialized skillset for improvising
| over Giant Steps.
| cloudfudge wrote:
| As someone who's really into music theory, I am always annoyed by
| what I perceive as a patronizing faux exaltation of it supposedly
| being mathematically based. It's not math; it's cyclical
| patterns. Yes, it can all be represented mathematically, and it
| is surprising to some people how something with feeling can map
| to these interesting cycles of discrete values in unexpectedly
| regular ways, and there are very interesting mathematical ratios
| involved, but that doesn't make it math. I don't think we need to
| pat John Coltrane on the head and talk about how he's _actually_
| kind of smart because he 's _doing math_.
| Pay08 wrote:
| Ah, so it's the cooking of chemistry.
| aaplok wrote:
| Actually I think that maths and jazz have something in common
| in the general public peception that you have to be smart to
| "get it".
|
| Nobody will try to perform a deep intellectual analysis of Lady
| Gaga's or Ed Sheeran's work the way they analyse Coltrane or
| Miles Davis (or Mozart, or Stravinsky). Those musicians are
| intellectuals of the sort Einstein is, unlike Lady Gaga or Ed
| Sheeran (in the collective perception). Jazz is intellectual
| music.
|
| And when they analyse something, "smart" people use maths.
|
| I am putting scare quotes around "smart" here to insist that
| this is largely a social perception and expected behaviour.
| However, maths _can_ sensibly be used to analyse art, just like
| it 's used elsewhere. This is not patronising, it is more that
| maths provides a useful language to talk about patterns.
| moogly wrote:
| Odd to mention Einstein and not Slonimsky, whose work he studied
| a lot and built upon.
| evanb wrote:
| I don't remember much about music theory but I know enough about
| symmetry to know that there's a mistake in the diagram at 9
| o'clock.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2026-04-07 23:00 UTC)