[HN Gopher] Ah, peptides. where to begin?
___________________________________________________________________
Ah, peptides. where to begin?
Author : A_D_E_P_T
Score : 64 points
Date : 2026-04-06 21:22 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.science.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| Lowe has a point, but the FDA has painted itself into a corner by
| (a) forcing up the costs and the various bureaucratic demands
| associated with clinical trials, (b) allowing drug advertising ,
| but then forcing those comical "may cause death" disclaimers,
| both of which have become totally ubiquitous, and (c)
| inconsistently following its own rules, and in some cases
| flouting its own rules.
|
| At this point, broscience is considered no less valid than actual
| clinical trials, and the FDA should blame itself for this. Not
| "human nature being what it is in this fallen world" in a sort of
| general or abstract sense.
|
| Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned the
| entire prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic
| middleman/gatekeeper.
|
| FDA reform is _very_ badly necessary. That ought to come before
| harsher enforcement, and I think that much of the populace
| already intuitively understands this.
| jmye wrote:
| > Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned
| the entire prescription system into nothing more than a
| parasitic middleman/gatekeeper.
|
| I'm curious what you mean by this. I'm not sure what you mean
| by "prescription system" specifically.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| Go to doctor, get prescription for restricted medicine, pick
| up prescription.
|
| If you can call up a teledoc and they give you a prescription
| based on your description why could you not just go buy the
| meds yourself without a prescription. You have essentially
| diagnosed yourself and just asked the doctor for permission
| to buy the drug you want.
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| I'll give you a case in point. This article was discussed the
| other day:
|
| > https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/02/technology/ai-billion-
| dol...
|
| People want GLP-1 drugs. They can't get them without a
| prescription. They pay $$$ to a "telemedicine" "doctor",
| recite a list of well-known symptoms, and buy the
| prescription.
|
| The system is that you can't buy these drugs without the
| piece of paper, and the piece of paper is basically something
| that anybody can buy regardless of whether or not they
| actually need the drug. Wanting it is usually enough.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I think access is a good thing. The issue isn't with
| telemedicine but the fact that there's a prescription wall
| for helpful meds like GLP-1 in a country where we've failed
| people by creating one of the worst food environments.
|
| Also, most doctor's visits aren't any different from
| getting it if you want it except it's gated on the
| mood/attitude of the doctor, maybe your ability to sell
| some sob story. And then you book a different doctor until
| you get it. Telemedicine just makes the process easier an
| arbitrary system.
| kube-system wrote:
| GLP-1 prescriptions are _easy_ to get in the US. It 's
| _filling the prescription_ that is the problem, because
| insurance rarely covers it and it is beyond the
| disposable income of most Americans.
|
| The prescription hurdle is absolutely necessary -- these
| are not drugs that anyone can safely take without
| guidance. It's the price that needs to be fixed.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I know a lot of people on GLP-1 meds and even took a dose
| myself out of curiosity.
|
| You take a dose every two weeks. And if you accidentally
| double dose because you misread 1U to mean 1 dose, it
| just gives you some nausea.
|
| Are we going to pretend it's hard to take this drug now
| too? Or that the doctor has some magical insight into
| your getting-on? Remember to eat. That's it. I guess a
| few people might need the doctor to go "you're eating,
| right?" but I don't believe in infantilizing everyone
| over that.
| kube-system wrote:
| One dose is one thing -- but there are other risks that
| can lead to complication or death here if taken
| improperly for a long period of time. Musculoskeletal
| issues, cardiac issues, thyroid issues, etc.
|
| Additionally, getting the correct dose is not
| straightforward for a layperson as it is for other OTC
| drugs with standard doses.
| tptacek wrote:
| There are similar risks, and probably more likely, to all
| sorts of consumables that aren't regulated at all. It is
| reasonable to ask whether the prescription regime for
| GLP-1s makes sense. It isn't the only substance posing
| that conundrum! Ondansetron is OTC in a lot of countries,
| but not in the US, Canada, or UK. But ondansetron is
| arguably less dangerous and more helpful than
| pseudoephedrine.
| kube-system wrote:
| Pseudoephedrine, of course, isn't BTC because it's
| dangerous to take or complicated to dose. It's there
| because of the war on drugs. But I do agree that not all
| drugs are regulated appropriately. Marijuana also comes
| to mind.
|
| I do think GLP-1s are just about right. It is appropriate
| to take them under personalized professional guidance.
| tptacek wrote:
| Right, and I actually see the logic of that (unlike
| virtually everyone else on HN, and let's not rekindle
| that debate; the search bar avails). The point is you
| don't need a prescription to get it. People might be
| better off if GLP1s were also BTC. Hard to say!
|
| Certainly you can abuse a GLP1 and get yourself very
| sick, or not abuse it and still end up with pancreatitis.
| But smoking and alcohol presumably cause way more cases
| of pancreatitis, and you don't need a script for a handle
| of Popov.
| kube-system wrote:
| There used to be prescriptions for alcohol products and
| cigarettes have been sold as medical products -- the
| reason we accept them in society today is not because we
| think they have relative less risk to other things, but
| that their acceptance as recreational vices outweighs the
| harm that we know they cause.
| bsder wrote:
| > Or that the doctor has some magical insight into your
| getting-on beyond a couple questions they ask you in your
| visit? Remember to eat. That's it.
|
| Apparently we have forgotten people who died from eating
| disorders (previously called anorexia nervosa)?
|
| There is a _VAST_ difference between someone who weighs
| 300lbs asking for GLP-1 to combat morbidity and someone
| who is barely 100lbs asking for a GLP-1 to take off
| weight for bikini season. _That 's_ what needing to ask a
| doctor for a prescription is for.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > You take a dose every two weeks
|
| Weekly, if you are following guidelines correctly. The
| half-life of most GLP1 peptides is 5-6 days.
|
| I otherwise agree with your point entirely. Though
| anecdotally, I may have given my brother-in-law a single
| small vial of tirzepatide at his request so that he could
| experience it, and the results were ... not good. Turns
| out he's an idiot, thought that 'more is better',
| 'drinking enough water is for weenies', and 'I am not an
| alcoholic even though I get plowed most evenings.' All
| against my very specific advice on how to give it a try.
| Whoops.
|
| My fault, yes, I should have realized he was too stupid
| to do it without adult supervision. He made himself so
| sick he almost went to the ER. Nothing really dangerous,
| of course, tirzepatide is pretty safe stuff, but
| overdosing on it can make you feel _very_ shitty for a
| few days until the blood concentration drops.
| phil21 wrote:
| > The prescription hurdle is absolutely necessary
|
| You're totally missing the point thought. The
| prescription hurdle effectively does not exist. It's just
| a paywall.
|
| You pay your $100, get a 3 minute call with a
| NP/PA/whomever, and basically the robot writes you a
| prescription for whatever you want. The point is you pay
| and you get the prescription. Patient safety has nothing
| to do with anything.
| kube-system wrote:
| It's cheaper for most people to get the prescription
| written at a PCP.
|
| The advantage to a telehealth is not getting the
| prescription written -- it's that they'll fill it for
| cheap through a tiny compounding pharmacy that is making
| it, technically illegally, but are small enough to be off
| the FDAs enforcement radar for the moment.
| ai_critic wrote:
| I take certain medications--nothing interesting, nothing
| controlled, nothing abusable. I have to deal with _a whole
| thing_ just to get refills, because my PCP forces me to come
| in every time--and even that is now just a telehealth call
| that is annoying.
|
| In Mexico, for meds like mine, you can just buy them at the
| pharmacy. There's no reason for all this nonsense.
|
| (Edit: same PCP refused to prescribe GLP-1s early, without
| any scientific or medical reason not to. Delayed my
| weightloss by months until I found a place that would.)
| pedalpete wrote:
| The "perscription system" used to be that you'd have to go
| see a doctor, the doctor knew who you were, and would make
| decisions on what prescriptions/medications you should be
| given.
|
| Due to drug advertising rules, the prescription system has
| been turned on its head, and the patient now goes to their
| doctor asking for a specific prescription.
|
| Telemedicine took advantage of this and has effectively
| removed the middleman (the doctor) in many cases and you just
| sign-up look at a person on a camera, and get your drugs sent
| to you.
| phil21 wrote:
| > I'm curious what you mean by this. I'm not sure what you
| mean by "prescription system" specifically.
|
| They basically operate as a "pay for a prescription" service.
|
| Figure out what drug you want, google the drug name and
| telehealth. You will be marketed in a wink wink sort of
| manner over how easy it is to get them, just hours away! Then
| if you are not a total idiot, you answer certain questions in
| the right manner on the intake form, the doctor (usually
| NP/PA or similar for most things) will quickly run through
| that and expect you to answer correctly - perhaps guide you a
| bit if you don't.
|
| 5 minutes later you have a prescription in the web portal and
| it's sent to your pharmacy of choice.
|
| It really shows how the whole "permission slip" program is
| BS. I've used these services a couple times vs. my normal
| doctor just to save time and expense of an office visit. If I
| can click some buttons, have a call 30 minutes later, and be
| on my way to the pharmacy for $50 it's sometimes the path I
| take now vs. traditional route.
|
| Someone used to the traditional doctor/patient relationship
| thing and prescriptions being "holy" would be shocked at how
| easy and gamed it all is.
| cwmoore wrote:
| When medicine ignores nutrition entirely, and nutrient
| supplements are _still_ complete unknowns, you have to wonder
| who the FDA is working for.
| Simulacra wrote:
| But there's a core problem with this, in many states doctors
| are legally forbidden to give nutrition advice. The academy
| of nutrition and dietetics has worked very hard to make it so
| that only dietitians can provide nutrition advice. Take Ohio
| for example, a medical doctor in Ohio is legally forbidden
| and actually in jeopardy of losing their license and going to
| jail if they were to provide nutrition advice without a
| dietetics license. Dietitians are not doctors, but the
| academy of nutrition and dietetics wants you to think they
| are.
| secabeen wrote:
| Mmmm, regulatory capture and rent seeking. Will it ever
| end?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Aren't doctors actually exempted specifically from such
| regulations in almost all states? AFAIK they can actually
| give nutritional advice legally in nearly every
| jurisdiction in the US.
| tzs wrote:
| > Dietitians are not doctors
|
| And doctors are not dietitians.
|
| Doctors in the US receive an average of under 20 hours of
| training in nutrition over four years of medical school.
| What little they do receive is often focused on nutrient
| deficiencies rather than on meal planning for health and
| chronic disease prevention. Less than 15% of residency
| programs include anything on nutrition.
|
| To become a registered dietician requires at least a
| Master's degree in dietetics or nutrition or a related
| field, and at least 1000 hours of supervised internships.
| hammock wrote:
| You don't have to wonder. It's public record that 45% of the
| FDA's budget incomes from user fees that companies pay when
| they apply for approval of a medical device or drug.
|
| In the drug division specifically, the number is about 75%.
| XorNot wrote:
| Medicine doesn't ignore nutrition, you just don't like the
| answers.
|
| And it shows on the research: e.g. does creatine help muscle
| building? No.[1] But cue some anecdote from someone where
| they also changed a dozen other things at the same time but
| are sure it was that.
|
| [1] https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2025/03/sports-
| supplem...
| GenerWork wrote:
| To your first point, if you know where to look, you can get
| tens of vials of GLP-1s that have much higher dosing per vial
| for cheaper than you can get a third of the amount on the grey
| market. A lot of these sites even have purity testing to soothe
| consumers worries that they're getting garbage. For your third
| point, you have the FDA limiting HGH, yet you can buy the
| growth horomone releasing factor peptides (tesamorelin,
| sermorelin, ipamorelin) after doing a simple Google search.
|
| As for broscience, moving into peptides was a logical next step
| after exhausting anabolic steroid "research". In fact, I'd say
| that biohackers are actually behind the bros when it comes to
| trying various peptides out and documenting experiences.
| Bender wrote:
| It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here. It's my
| opinion that amino acids regardless of how they are chained do
| not belong under and stricter regulation than food given I eat
| peptides every day from my food. Then again I do not believe in
| the concept of prescription drugs. Everything with a NDC code
| should be at the grocery store and I should be able to stock up
| on it without permission especially given how fragile global
| shipping is these days. Drugs risks do not enter into the picture
| given the fact I can buy ammonia and bleach along with a myriad
| of other dangerous compounds. Worse, I could crush up apple seeds
| from the veggie isle. One can also make just about anything using
| fourth thieves vinegar. Maybe put expensive high demand things
| like cocaine behind locked glass along with the underwear and
| condoms.
|
| As a side note more dangerous than any drug is stopping a
| prescription drug cold turkey. Watch what happens when global
| trade to/from China and India are cut off for a year. Attitudes
| will change.
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| > _given I eat peptides every day from my food_
|
| This is briefly addressed in the article, but basically it's
| one thing to eat a peptide and quite another thing to inject
| it. Your digestive system is extremely adroit at taking
| peptides and proteins and breaking them down into individual
| amino acids, which are then absorbed via "transporters" in the
| gut. (e.g. SLC6A14 for glutamate and cysteine.)
|
| If you eat insulin, absolutely nothing will happen. If you
| inject just a little bit too much, you're dead.
|
| So, generally: Ingested proteins/peptides aren't drug-like,
| whereas they can be extremely potent drugs if administered via
| injection.
|
| Granted, there are exceptions. If you accidentally get a drop
| of botox into your mouth, you'll be okay, but if you drink a
| vial, you'll be poisoned. And people have been trying to make
| orally-active peptides and proteins for decades, with some
| noteworthy successes, however few and far between in the
| general case.
| Bender wrote:
| I agree with some of this. There are most certainly orally
| active peptides such as BPC-157 and its replacement PDA penta
| deca arginate that can repair the gut and still circulate
| throughout the body especially in those with leaky gut.
| People with leaky gut should be able to buy a clean source of
| BPC-157 or PDA without a prescription and without visiting
| dark alleys. It is very safe and tolerable.
|
| GLP's are all the rage these days. Doctors seem to be giving
| GLP peptides out like candy and those are injected. People
| are looking like zombies. That said if doctors are going to
| be so liberal with them I should be able to buy it in the
| grocery store and slap it down on the conveyor belt. Again I
| can buy things far more dangerous than any prescription drug.
| There are very dangerous supplements, some that are shilled
| heavily on youtube. For example, Glycine _(for me
| specifically used without a specific process)_ is more
| dangerous than heroine and the vast majority of doctors would
| have no idea what I am talking about.
| dc396 wrote:
| > It is very safe and tolerable.
|
| Can you point to the clinical trials that demonstrate this?
|
| > Doctors seem to be giving GLP peptides out like candy and
| those are injected.
|
| There have been several _thousand_ clinical trials that
| have shown GLP-1s to be safe and effective.
| XorNot wrote:
| Also LOL at the notion "peptides are safe because GLP-1
| exists".
|
| Pretty much all venoms are mixes of short (10-15 base)
| peptide chains.
|
| It's the naturalistic fallacy in an utterly perverse form
| ( and also goes to show why a regulatory system is good:
| the average person has no idea that they're dealing with
| or even common sense about it).
| fragmede wrote:
| Injected BPC-157 to a wound is a magic healing potion as
| far as I'm concerned. That it's not more broadly available
| is a crime, imo. If I had a billion dollars, I'd push so
| many things through the FDA.
| tshaddox wrote:
| > > given I eat peptides every day from my food
|
| It's also just a silly rhetorical technique. The ability to
| construct a grammatical sentence of that form does not
| constitute a valid argument.
|
| "Restricting nuclear material is silly given that nearly all
| the stuff I interact with every day contains atomic nuclei."
| kube-system wrote:
| The regulation of drugs or most any consumer product is not due
| to the inherent danger of an item itself, but the danger
| presented to a consumer inside the context of societal
| mechanisms that influence behavior. You're right that many
| regulations don't make sense outside of a societal context --
| but that's because they also don't _exist_ outside of a
| societal context.
|
| The reason we don't need tight regulations on bleach is because
| we don't have a societal issue causing people to drink it and
| hurt themselves... at least, not anymore: most of the locking
| lids on household cleaning chemicals are there by law.
| jmye wrote:
| > Drugs risks do not enter into the picture given the fact I
| can buy ammonia and bleach along with a myriad of other
| dangerous compounds.
|
| This is a deeply weird take. You think anyone ought to be able
| to buy, for instance, warfarin and freely take it without a
| doctor's involvement? We should let parents self-diagnose
| diabetes and administer insulin without a prescription or
| discussion? We should just hope that patients heard their
| doctor say hydralazine and not hydroxyzine?
|
| > As a side note more dangerous than any drug is stopping a
| prescription drug cold turkey.
|
| Abject nonsense. It was very easy to stop my prescribed
| amoxicillin. It's clear you don't have any actual idea what
| "prescription drugs" are, in aggregate, and that should maybe
| inform your decision to have Big Opinions about them.
| Bender wrote:
| _You think anyone ought to be able to buy, for instance,
| warfarin and freely take it without a doctor's involvement?_
|
| Yes.
| cm2012 wrote:
| Triple yes! Most of the people buying it have been buying
| it and using it for years.
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| > _This is a deeply weird take. You think anyone ought to be
| able to buy, for instance, warfarin and freely take it
| without a doctor's involvement? We should let parents self-
| diagnose diabetes and administer insulin without a
| prescription or discussion? We should just hope that patients
| heard their doctor say hydralazine and not hydroxyzine?_
|
| Weird examples. You can buy insulin without a prescription
| today in the USA.
|
| In much of the world -- including almost all of Asia, Africa,
| and much of Eastern Europe -- you can buy almost any drug
| without a prescription. The only exceptions are potent CNS
| stimulants or narcotics, and in some rare cases antibiotics.
|
| This is legitimately a better system. Takes out the
| middleman.
|
| In the US you can get any drug if you pay $120 and recite the
| magic words to a telemedicine "doctor."
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| Funny you mention this... I bumped into a VP of Merck at a
| conference and that's the exact example he gave: in the US,
| you can't adjust your own coumadin dosage without a M.D.
| consult, but here, have 200 doses of insulin to take home
| with you.
| Bender wrote:
| _In much of the world -- including almost all of Asia,
| Africa, and much of Eastern Europe_
|
| Doctors in the US get a nice $200 to $500 per doctors
| visit, required to extend the prescription drug. I only
| notice because I pay cash. This is why they will argue
| against anything I am saying until they are code-blue in
| the face. I will leave them with my code brown.
|
| _In the US you can get any drug if you pay $120 and recite
| the magic words to a telemedicine "doctor."_
|
| That's how a number of us in a particular circle stock up
| on anti-biotics. That said anti-biotics are a last resort
| for me whereas I find doctors are quick to prescribe them.
| hellojimbo wrote:
| Your argument is even worse lol. Obviously he's proposing
| that you can take your doctors note to the pharmacy and get
| what the doctor prescribed in addition to being allowed to
| self purchase behind the counter drugs.
| refurb wrote:
| > It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here
|
| That's exactly what some biological drugs are too - peptides!
|
| And peptides are just short chains of amino acids. Almost all
| the other biological drugs are just longer chains of amino
| acids - antibodies, enzymes, antigens, some hormones, and
| others.
|
| Derek is right that the safety risks are exponentially higher
| when you inject peptides - you basically skip a bunch of
| protective mechanisms like enzymes that quickly break them down
| if taken orally or routes.
|
| As a former R&D scientist there is no way I'd inject any
| peptide that hasn't at least gone through a phase 1 safety
| study in humans. Otherwise you have no idea what it could be
| doing to your body.
|
| A good example was a drug that was quickly pulled from market
| for causing fatal anaphylactic reactions. It wasn't even caught
| in the clinical trials!
|
| At the same time, I think people have the right to take
| whatever substance they want. But I worry a lot of people
| aren't aware of the risks.
| Ucalegon wrote:
| >As a former R&D scientist there is no way I'd inject any
| peptide that hasn't at least gone through a phase 1 safety
| study in humans. Otherwise you have no idea what it could be
| doing to your body.
|
| A lot of people do not understand the trial system or the
| value of Phase 0/1 tests when it comes to the substances that
| they put into their body. And thanks to the
| influencer/grifter/biohacker ecosystem that exists, more
| people would put their trust in accidental evidence, from
| people who's incentive it is to make money off of them, while
| complaining about the pharmaceutical industry operates off of
| a profit motive.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I'm all for laxer regulation of substance control e.g. buying
| cocaine at the grocery store, but I think its also a bit
| misleading to describe arbitrary sequences of amino acids as if
| they're meaningfully comparable to food.
|
| That's like saying that since neither one nor zero requires
| regulation, neither does software. Maybe software does or
| doesn't, but in either case its best based on the nature of the
| aggregate, not the nature of its components.
| bix6 wrote:
| I really enjoyed having to wait 30 seconds for Cloudflare to let
| me into this website.
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| I think if you're a cloudflare customer they set a cookie in
| your browser that let's you bypass the waiting period. Just
| wait until next year when they show ads during the wait.
| diath wrote:
| > My patient is refusing a drug studied in 170,000 people because
| of side effects that a 124,000-person analysis just confirmed do
| not exist -- while injecting a compound studied in 14 humans,
| from unregulated sources, based on the recommendation of someone
| who profits from selling it. She's probably not the only one. And
| those using it believe they are "doing their own research."
|
| Ok, and? At worst you waste a couple hundred dollars and deem the
| alternative therapy not worth it and go back to your doctor but I
| know dozens of people at my gym that used BPC 157 and TB 500 that
| fixed their chronic tendon/joint issues within weeks of starting
| the therapy that physios couldn't fix for years.
| orf wrote:
| You know dozens of people from a single place that have chronic
| tendon/joint issues?
| diath wrote:
| Yes? These types of injuries are common among bodybuilders
| and powerlifters.
| kube-system wrote:
| Pfft -- they're common among anyone over 30 who exercises!
| cheald wrote:
| Hang out at a BJJ or MMA gym for a bit, and you'll find
| plenty. Peptides are really popular in combat sports circles,
| with good reason.
| cgh wrote:
| You should hang out at a climbing gym sometime. There is
| nothing that unites climbers more than injury talk.
| phil21 wrote:
| I don't doubt it. You make casual friends sometimes at
| certain gyms, especially if any sort of sports are involved
| like tennis or even group classes.
|
| I am a super introvert and know at least half a dozen folks
| with such issues, more if you include my close friend group.
|
| Any place that has a lot of physically active people
| stressing their limits a bit is going to have a lot of
| injured folks over a decent period of time. And of course it
| gets talked about quite a lot, since it limits performance
| and ability.
|
| My trainer knows I have a chronic shoulder issue, and an
| adductor issue at the moment I'm working through that we need
| to avoid stressing too much. The few other folks who tend to
| work out around my schedule know of this, and I know of
| theirs.
|
| Not very uncommon really.
| aaarrm wrote:
| My partner's grandfather died of cancer because when he was
| having pains they believed their homeopathic medicine would
| work. When he finally when in to see a real doctor it was too
| late. If he had gone in earlier, he would been able to have a
| chance. This is not a rare occurrence for these types.
| phil21 wrote:
| Why would you stop going to a real doctor though? It's not
| one or the other.
|
| I'm very on the fence over BPC-157/TB500, I really want to
| see some actual clinical trials ran on it. I have a feeling
| the effects are overstated, but I also have had a number of
| "insider" conversations where I know these and other
| compounds are very much being utilized in pro athlete injury
| recovery programs. Those athletes certainly are getting state
| of the art medical care via traditional sources, plus elite
| level physio therapy - so it's hard to say if the illicit
| injury recovery drugs are doing much or not.
| cgh wrote:
| I don't think either of those are patentable so I doubt
| you'll see studies or trials any time soon. A lot of
| strength athletes at all levels, not just elite, are
| absolutely convinced of their efficacy and their usage
| sometimes seems as common as ibuprofen.
| kibibu wrote:
| > I know dozens of people at my gym
|
| I don't think I even know dozens of people, full stop, let
| alone well enough to talk to them about their peptide use.
| diath wrote:
| I go to a gym that has IFBB pros and people competing on
| elite powerlifting level, steroid and peptide use is an every
| day chit chat topic.
| dc396 wrote:
| > Ok, and?
|
| According to our new AI overlords, a short synopsis of
| potential risks of BPC 157 based on mechanistic and animal work
| to date (don't know human risks because there haven't been
| sufficient clinical studies):
|
| * Possible pathologic angiogenesis (abnormal blood-vessel
| growth), which theoretically could support tumor growth or
| inflammatory and autoimmune processes. * Modulation of nitric-
| oxide pathways that, at high levels, might contribute to
| anemia, altered drug metabolism (CYP enzyme activity), and
| possibly neurodegenerative processes in theory. * Concerns that
| its pro-healing, pro-growth signalling (e.g., FAK-paxillin)
| could encourage cancer spread if malignant cells are already
| present; this remains theoretical, with no proof in humans. *
| Possible liver and kidney toxicity suggested in some commentary
| and extrapolated from preclinical work, but not well
| characterized in people. * Immune reactions or allergic
| responses, including fevers, rash, hives, muscle aches, or
| systemic inflammatory responses
|
| These do not appear to be results that would appear overnight.
| It would be "nice" if the folks injecting random shit into
| their bodies also disclaimed any subsequent medical
| intervention as a result of said shit, but that I suspect
| that's unlikely.
| diath wrote:
| Have you ever looked at leaflets attached to any medicine
| prescribed by doctors?
| dc396 wrote:
| You mean the ones that are the result of experience through
| controlled clinical trials with statistical analyses and
| error bars, yep, sure. I guess I have a bit more faith in
| those leaflets and the testing regimes that generates them
| than the word of some gymbro or influencer who injected
| themselves and didn't immediately fall over dead.
| rzmmm wrote:
| My total layman view is that powerful drugs often have
| powerful side effects.
| XorNot wrote:
| That's because you grew up in a society still deeply coded
| to puritan moral viewpoints.
|
| People for so upset that GLP-1 has no long term side
| effects.
|
| There's still the crowd completely sure everyone will get
| HyperCancer in 10 years or something (they won't).
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| With India getting generic GLP-1s, the tech to "print" peptides
| will probably see costs fall off a cliff, so we're probably only
| looking at the tip of the iceberg with the amount of damages the
| reddit biohacker bros will accomplish. Men especially are feeling
| a lot more lonely and image-conscious and there are peptides
| people claim make them taller[1] or muscular[2].
|
| 1:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/endocrinology/comments/1jb2cce/grow...
|
| 2: https://r2medicalclinic.com/best-muscle-growth-peptides
| diath wrote:
| These peptides are already relatively cheap, here's one US
| domestic source: https://imgur.com/a/OXOkSdR
| GenerWork wrote:
| $120 for 10mg of reta is highway robbery.
| tbojanin wrote:
| I tried retatrutide for 10 weeks, here are my results: Before:
| 5'7, ~182lb
|
| Bench 1rm: 315
|
| Squat: 5x10 225
|
| Deadlift: 5x5 315
|
| After: same height lol, 154lb
|
| Bench 1rm: 285
|
| Squat: 5x10 205
|
| Deadlift: 5x5 275
|
| Suffered some anhedonia towards the end but that went away ~1wk
| after stopping. Overall pretty good, not any side effects.
| Definitely fixed my food craving problem. I didn't have a high
| intake of protein during the 10 weeks, so I suspect thats why I
| lost muscle mass :/
| cheald wrote:
| I used a combo of low-dose retatrutide, tesamorelin, and
| ipamorelin and lost about 15lb over 45 days, including 60% of
| my visceral fat, and put on 4lb of muscle, per before-and-after
| DEXA scans. I lifted regularly, ate well, and prioritized
| protein, and while I definitely under-ate protein, I was very
| pleased to find that I was able to increase muscle mass while
| cutting the fat. My visceral fat was the primary target here,
| since I'd been unable to get it to budge despite consistent
| training and diet. Very pleased.
| twodave wrote:
| Did you work out during those 10 weeks any? TBH if you went
| from regular lifting to not for 10 weeks I'd expect a similar
| decrease in your lifting numbers (though not a .4lb/day weight
| loss of course)
| hammock wrote:
| Those are sizable drops for 10 weeks unless you stopped lifting
| as well
| olalonde wrote:
| You lost muscle because you lost around 1.54% of body weight
| per week, which is way too aggressive. The maximum recommended
| amount for losing weight while retaining muscle is around 1%.
| You will also most likely experience a weight rebound.
| olalonde wrote:
| The author is missing a massive segment of that gray market:
| people who buy FDA-approved weight loss drugs (e.g., semaglutide
| or tirzepatide) at 2-5% of the brand-name price. This route
| carries some risk, but there are ways to mitigate it, such as
| performing third-party testing. I assume most people who do this
| couldn't realistically afford the brand-name drug anyway, making
| this their only viable treatment.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test it,
| and then resell smaller quantities. That's a shame because the
| alternative is probably that some folks settle for products of
| dubious quality and end up getting hurt.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| It probably is, but that does not stop people from
| effectively doing it. There are a number of groups that
| specialize in conducting group buys, doing a bunch of testing
| on randomized samples, and then shipping out the product to
| individuals.
|
| Also, if you plan to be on it a good long time, you can buy a
| bunch of kits yourself (a kit is 10 vials), run a bunch of
| tests, and then just have a nice stockpile that will last you
| years. The testing will likely cost as much or more than the
| product itself, but given how inexpensive the product is, you
| still come out way ahead financially.
| GenerWork wrote:
| >I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test
| it, and then resell smaller quantities
|
| It is illegal, but it doesn't stop people from doing it. In
| fact, if you don't have any sort of test results for your
| peptides people will absolutely avoid buying your wares until
| you have them. Purity and mg/ml are the 2 basic test results
| that any shop worth their stuff will have.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| To be fair, most everyone I know who is buying on the gray
| market considers vendor tests to be minimally required, but
| still insufficient -- there is no assurance they tested the
| product they shipped to you. Plan on testing it yourself.
| I'm sure some people do trust nexaph enough, though, to not
| worry so much. Whether that trust is well placed, that is a
| separate discussion.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| With most of these you can really tell if they work or
| not and there is a pretty predicable dose dependent
| reaction profile. With slow meds like semaglutide you'd
| maybe not notice it in the first week but you will by
| week 3. I had mine tested but if that wasn't available I
| probably would have considered the anecdotal evidence to
| be sufficient. It appears that most of the scamming is
| just people taking the money and not shipping anything.
| olalonde wrote:
| Yes, I believe most people buy directly from somewhat shady
| Chinese factories. I tried contacting a few and they all
| refuse to meet or send samples from within China, so I assume
| what they're doing is illegal in China. In the US, it's legal
| to sell them as a "research chemical" but the FDA is cracking
| down on companies that are clearly engaging in b2c.
|
| There's this company that offers free testing:
| https://finnrick.com/
|
| Another popular testing company is https://janoshik.com
|
| Some other useful resources: https://graymarket.substack.com/
| and https://glp1forum.com/
|
| There are a few subreddits as well.
|
| FWIW, I never ended up buying any myself.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Right, but I don't know the people at those companies. I
| have local chemists that I trust. I'm just lamenting the
| fact that developing that kind of trust network everywhere,
| so everybody can be similarly sure of what they're putting
| in their body, is likely to run afoul of local laws.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| FWIW, finnrick's claim to fame is being free. Someone is
| paying for it. They have also failed blind tests in the
| past, Janoshik (IIRC) never has. There are several US-based
| labs but none of them have the same reputation as Janoshik.
| kurthr wrote:
| Actually, you just described most of the tele-health and
| compounding pharmacies that carry GLP1s!
|
| Where do you think Hims, Ro, Brello, or the rest get the APIs
| they sell to their customers? They get them from grey market
| suppliers in China. They don't go to Ely Lilly or NovoNordisk
| and say, "politely sir, may I skirt around your IP and sell
| your drugs for 10x what they cost instead of 10,000x what
| they cost?" Hopefully, they test them and filter them and use
| sterile/pharma processes for what they sell to their
| customers. Well, except for the Medspas, those are just wild
| west snake oil farms.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Things have changed a little, but during the time that
| compounding was explicitly allowed, the licensed pharmacies
| were buying from FDA approved manufacturers, sometimes in
| China, and sometimes the same manufacturers who also do
| contract manufacturing for Lilly.
|
| Today ... who knows? It might just be the same gray market
| stuff us plebes can get.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| I bought Semaglutide at 50c/mg and had it tested, it's the real
| deal. What's the normal price, $100/mg?
|
| My gf is in medicine so she had a friend test it through their
| work.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Won't be anywhere near that. I don't have prices handy, but
| Lilly sells tirzepatide (a bit better than sema, and usually
| a bit more expensive) at 500/mo (maybe a bit less now on the
| trump rx site, I don't recall). Depending on dose, that'll be
| about 10 bucks a mg give or take. Gray market runs about 50
| cents/mg.
| comrade1234 wrote:
| I know a couple of people that should know better (phds in
| biosciences but now doing corporate management) taking expensive
| weird Chinese peptides that would probably be better off if they
| did some cardio a few days per week and ate better.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I take a small issue with the claim that we don't test peptides.
| Some of us test them extensively before injecting. Granted,
| probably the same people who also understand how little science
| there is backing up most of the popular peptides today. I enjoy
| being able to buy my own GLP1s, however, at least those which
| have made it through phase III trials succesfully. As tempting as
| the claims are about things like BPC-157 and such ... no thanks,
| that is past my comfort level a good bit.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Peptides are a revolution and you don't need to know how they
| work to know that they work (for various people for various
| conditions). There is a tension between empiricism and
| fundamentalism with much of medical science focusing on
| fundamentalism. Now with the ability to collect and search large
| amounts of empirical data and communicate it peer-to-peer people
| are picking up on a lot of things that work without knowing why
| they work. I think people are just going to circumvent the
| fundamentalist and chase after whatever works.
|
| I owe my health to early adoption of experimental peptides, I
| have life long ME/CFS and there is no known treatment for this
| nor is there any on the horizon. At least they finally have a
| diagnostic test and know it's not psychosomatic but I could have
| told them that from day 1. Most doctors are not researchers and
| have little understanding on statistics instead preferring to
| rely on discrete classifications and simple decision tress. As
| someone with hEDS from TNXB I am a walking bag of symptoms and
| yet not a single doctor could figure it out. I had to research it
| myself which involved post-doc level textbooks and research
| journals. I came across the work done by Prof. Khavinson (USSR)
| and it did appear to me that peptides were incredibly under-
| explored. Given the poor quality of life with ME/CFS I was
| willing to take serious risks so previous trials were helpful to
| give an idea on dosing and lethality, I went through most of the
| research peptides one by one. I actually waited on semaglutide a
| bit because I suspected there was a small minority who would have
| hyper sensitivity and I both expected that to appear in the data,
| which it did, and I expected to have hypersensitivity, which I
| did. Others who were less careful ended up with pretty bad
| gastroenteritis. Semaglutide has been the most effective and with
| it and a few others I am largely able to lead a normal life. I
| was getting gray market from the US but now I get it direct from
| China.
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