[HN Gopher] Adobe modifies hosts file to detect whether Creative...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Adobe modifies hosts file to detect whether Creative Cloud is
       installed
        
       Author : rglullis
       Score  : 194 points
       Date   : 2026-04-06 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.osnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.osnews.com)
        
       | cromka wrote:
       | > for a very stupid reason.
       | 
       | I cannot stomach Thom's articles. So borderline judgmental,
       | holier than thou, feels like he only writes whenever there's
       | something to criticize.
       | 
       | No, it's not a stupid reason. Reason is OK, the execution is
       | controversial.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | > Reason is OK, the execution is controversial.
         | 
         | And even then, only controversial to nerds with opinions.
         | Nothing else about it is controversial.
         | 
         | If anything, knowing whether the app is installed or not is
         | kinda important? If you open a file shared with you in the
         | browser, the option to "Open in Desktop" versus "Install
         | Desktop App" actually works correctly?
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | > In which case, how else would you propose doing it?
           | 
           | - Registering an url handler?
           | 
           | - Asking the user?
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | You can't detect whether a URL handler worked correctly in
             | a browser; otherwise Windows will appear with a "Select an
             | app to open YOURPROTOCOLHERE://" which is completely
             | nonsensical to the user.
             | 
             | As for option 2; ask them every time, or edit their hosts
             | file. Easiest decision in the world: Edit their hosts file,
             | every time, no question. The 1% of nerds who care, and
             | oddly enough don't buy Adobe software, are completely
             | meaningless to the 99% of customers who experience the
             | decision positively.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | What a ridiculous conclusion.
               | 
               | Why does Adobe need to exfiltrate some information from
               | my machine anyway? If I'm a customer, then they should
               | know this when I sign into my account. They absolutely
               | don't need this information if I'm visiting their website
               | without logging in.
               | 
               | Modifying a global system file is something their
               | software shouldn't be doing in the first place, but
               | relying on this abuse to track me on their website is on
               | another level of insidious behavior.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | If you're worried about device fingerprinting, Adobe has
               | far more reliable ways to do it already. Canvas
               | fingerprinting, IP tracking, cookies. A hosts entry tells
               | them almost nothing they couldn't get elsewhere, provides
               | them with almost no entropy, and attributing insidious
               | intent to what is most plausibly a UX feature is
               | conspiratorial.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | I'm not worried about this, since I don't use Adobe
               | products. I'm just calling out what's clearly user
               | hostile behavior. Considering the amount of hostility
               | Adobe has exhibited towards its users over the years, I'm
               | inclined to believe this is yet another example. Nothing
               | conspiratorial about that. If anything, calling this a
               | "UX feature" without any evidence either way is
               | suspiciously dismissive.
        
           | jacobgkau wrote:
           | > If anything, knowing whether the app is installed or not is
           | kinda important? If you open a file shared with you in the
           | browser, the option to "Open in Desktop" versus "Install
           | Desktop App" actually works correctly?
           | 
           | This is not an approach any other app on any platform has
           | historically used, and it doesn't seem sustainable if every
           | app you install has to modify your hosts file to use a hack
           | like this to detect whether it should handle files or not.
           | 
           | If you want the browser to be able to give the OS a file
           | handler and have the OS present an option to install the app
           | if it's not installed, that should be handled at the platform
           | level, not on the website using a hack like this.
           | 
           | Why can a file not simply be downloaded with a page displayed
           | showing a link to install the app and also instructions to
           | open the file, trusting the user will know if they already
           | have it installed? At best, you're talking about a very small
           | UX optimization. Emphasis on the "kinda" in "kinda
           | important."
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | > This is not an approach any other app on any platform has
             | historically used, and it doesn't seem sustainable if every
             | app you install has to modify your hosts file to use a hack
             | like this to detect whether it should handle files or not.
             | 
             | Actually it's completely sustainable. DNS was invented a
             | decade after hosts files. The idea of your host file being
             | almost completely empty is a modern aberration from the
             | days it used to be thousands of lines long.
             | 
             | Do I wish there was a better mechanism? Sure. Would HN ever
             | agree on a OS-level app-detection API for the browser?
             | Never.
             | 
             | > Why can a file not simply be downloaded with a page
             | displayed showing a link to install the app and also
             | instructions to open the file, trusting the user will know
             | if they already have it installed? At best, you're talking
             | about a very small UX optimization. Emphasis on the "kinda"
             | in "kinda important."
             | 
             | A small UX decision, adding up to tens of millions of times
             | per day, affecting 99.9% of people who don't give a darn -
             | versus a matter of slight software engineering principles
             | of "we just don't do it that way." Easiest decision ever.
        
               | jacobgkau wrote:
               | > Would HN ever agree on a OS-level app-detection API for
               | the browser? Never.
               | 
               | There _already is one._ It just asks the user whether it
               | 's okay before it tells the website, as you acknowledged:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47664546
               | 
               | What you're arguing for is not good UX. It's lack of user
               | privacy & control. You just think you're being hip or
               | whatever for being blase about it.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | > There *already( is one. It just asks the user whether
               | it's okay before it tells the website
               | 
               | The current implementation defines a way to launch (w/
               | the user's approval) but it lacks any signaling of
               | success or failure of the request. Without such feedback,
               | it falls short of being a detection API.
        
             | naniwaduni wrote:
             | > This is not an approach any other app on any platform has
             | historically used, and it doesn't seem sustainable if every
             | app you install has to modify your hosts file to use a hack
             | like this to detect whether it should handle files or not.
             | 
             | How many apps are you installing that it becomes
             | "unsustainable"? Host file entries are extremely cheap, and
             | it's not like the app needs more than one. Of all the
             | arguments against this, sustainability is a comically weak
             | one. If anything, it's using less contested resources than
             | the "hitting random ports on localhost" approach...
        
               | jacobgkau wrote:
               | The "sustainable" comment wasn't about the hosts file
               | ballooning to the point of causing performance problems.
               | It was more about the engineering effort required for
               | every program ever (or at least every commercial program
               | that might want this sort of analytic) to have to parse
               | and edit a text file on both installation and removal,
               | without messing that important text file up.
               | 
               | Do you really not see scripted editing of shared system-
               | wide text files as a step back compared to the general
               | containerization that app development has moved towards?
               | This sort of approach would be explicitly incompatible
               | with sandboxes. Adobe can only get away with it because
               | they're already very entrenched with their own app store
               | on their users' machines.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | > Do you really not see scripted editing of shared
               | system-wide text files as a step back compared to the
               | general containerization that app development has moved
               | towards?
               | 
               | Sir, this is Windows. This is not Android, this is not
               | iOS, this is not macOS. Wait until you learn about the
               | registry.
        
               | jacobgkau wrote:
               | > this is not macOS.
               | 
               | From the first sentence of the featured article:
               | 
               | > If you're using Windows or macOS
               | 
               | Also, Microsoft has attempted to reign in and standardize
               | app developers on numerous occasions over the past couple
               | of decades, and their failure to do so doesn't impact my
               | statement regarding the direction of app development in
               | general (or the weaknesses of people doing whatever they
               | want on Windows).
        
         | Steeeve wrote:
         | It's literally a 2 sentence article. Might as well have just
         | tweeted "Adobe makes me mad"
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | I don't know anything about Thom, but I've kind of grown to
         | prefer the pissy opinionated tones of blog posts. I think
         | impartiality is difficult or impossible for a lot of tasks, and
         | I'd rather people lay out their opinions plainly than trying to
         | pretend that what they're saying is "objective".
         | 
         | Also, I think writing only when you have things to criticize is
         | a valid enough thing to do; what's the point of writing a
         | glorified "I agree!" article?
         | 
         | I only ever blog when I have something that I think is unique
         | to say, and as such a lot of the time my posts end up being
         | kind of negative. I don't think I'm _that_ negative of a
         | person, I just don 't see the point of flooding the internet
         | with more echo-chambers.
        
           | trollbridge wrote:
           | I like his tone too. It also is easier to identify that it
           | isn't LLM generated text.
           | 
           | (I have nothing against LLMs but have little interest in
           | reading text generated from them.)
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | It's one thing when it's the Associated Press, where they
             | are trying to be a somewhat impartial source of news and
             | reporting raw facts to the best of their ability; stuff
             | like that probably should not have an opinionated tone at
             | all.
             | 
             | But I think for things like blogs, without opinions being
             | clear, posts can feel kind of soulless. Even before LLMs I
             | felt that way, and now it has been amplified ten fold with
             | people just cranking out low-effort posts with ChatGPT _for
             | reasons that I do not understand_.
             | 
             | When I write stuff for my blog, I like to think of it as a
             | time capsule of the _entirety_ of the thing I 'm writing
             | about. This doesn't just include the raw subject matter,
             | but also my mood and opinions about the subject matter. I'm
             | egotistical enough to occasionally read through my old
             | posts and the ones that I like the best are the ones where
             | I feel like I was expressing myself the most, and where I
             | make no effort whatsoever to try and be impartial.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > No, it's not a stupid reason. Reason is OK, the execution is
         | controversial.
         | 
         | This is a muddled statement. It is a stupid reason to "execute"
         | the act of silently modifying your host file.
         | 
         | If I murder somebody to keep them from stepping on my foot, and
         | the judge says that it's a stupid reason to murder somebody,
         | it's silly to say that the reason is "OK" because it hurts to
         | have one's foot stepped on.
        
       | lousken wrote:
       | How is defender not flagging this? Changing hosts file should
       | raise alarms
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | The hosts file is not sacred on Windows. Anyone who is
         | administrator can just edit it. I've done it to add domain
         | names to localhost.
         | 
         | For anyone hand-wringing over this, this used to be _normal_.
         | The hosts file was invented a decade before DNS. The end user,
         | or app, would edit their hosts file purposefully after
         | downloading a master copy from the Stanford Research Institute
         | which was occasionally updated.
        
           | jacobgkau wrote:
           | > For anyone hand-wringing over this, this used to be
           | _normal_.
           | 
           | People editing hosts files for other reasons was normal (a
           | long time ago-- and it stopped being normal for valid
           | reasons, as tech evolved and the shortcomings of that system
           | were solved). A program automatically editing the hosts file
           | and its website using that to detect information about the
           | website visitor is not the same thing; that usage is novel
           | and was never "normal."
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | In particular, manually editing the hosts file was a
             | mostly-obsolete practice by the time the first version of
             | Windows shipped, and certainly by the time Windows actually
             | had a built-in networking stack. And it was always a red
             | flag for a local app to mess with the hosts file.
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | > manually editing the hosts file was a mostly-obsolete
               | practice by the time the first version of Windows shipped
               | 
               | This claim strikes me as obviously wrong.
        
               | anvuong wrote:
               | Obsolete? My team has an onboard document that spells out
               | lines that needed to be add to host file so they can
               | access internal resources. These are machines directly
               | bought/rented and maintained by the team, so we prefer to
               | use host files instead of going through the company DNS,
               | which is maintained by an entirely different team.
        
               | jacobgkau wrote:
               | The person you replied to said _mostly-obsolete_. They
               | were speaking in the same context as the earlier
               | commenter claiming it 's a normal practice because
               | everyone used to have to update their hosts files all the
               | time before DNS existed at all.
               | 
               | Your shadow IT example is perfectly valid, and also isn't
               | a 1:1 comparison with a company doing it automatically
               | for a much larger number of external users.
        
             | AnthonyMouse wrote:
             | Programs adding entries to the hosts file is still pretty
             | normal, e.g. if something that uses a local webserver as
             | its UI and wants you to be able to access it by name even
             | if you don't have an internet connection or may be stuck
             | behind a DNS server that mangles entries in the public DNS
             | that resolve to localhost.
        
               | mikkupikku wrote:
               | Programs like that should just be shipped with good
               | documentation. And applications built to be used by
               | normies should almost certainly never be built that way
               | in the first place.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | That seems like a pretty reasonable way to write a small
               | cross-platform application which is intended to be a
               | background service to begin with. You only have to create
               | the UI once without needing to link in a heavy cross-
               | platform UI framework and can then just put an HTTP
               | shortcut to the local name in the start menu or
               | equivalent. Normies can easily figure that out
               | specifically because you're _not_ telling them to read
               | documentation to manually edit their hosts file.
               | 
               | There are also other reasons to do it, like if you want a
               | device on the local network to be accessible via HTTPS.
               | Getting the certificate these days is pretty easy (have
               | the device generate a random hostname for itself and get
               | a real certificate by having the developer's servers do a
               | DNS challenge for that hostname under one of the
               | developer's public domain names), but now you need the
               | local client device to resolve the name to the LAN IP
               | address even if the local DNS refuses to resolve to those
               | addresses or you don't want the LAN IP leaked into the
               | public DNS.
               | 
               | Or the app being installed is some kind of VPN that only
               | provides access to a fixed set of devices and then you
               | want some names to resolve to those VPN addresses, which
               | the app can update if you change the VPN configuration.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | I wonder how this works on Windows, if any service
         | overrides/resets it
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Can this not be blocked with file permissions? Or a symlink to
         | a file in a ro folder?
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Most software installers demand to be run as
           | root/Administrator.
           | 
           | The fact that this is largely seen as acceptable or even
           | sensible is rather silly in this day and age.
        
             | deepsun wrote:
             | Yes, and when apps do request many permissios, I just
             | estimate how reputable the company is. A name like Adobe
             | must be ok, right?
        
             | cmovq wrote:
             | Software wants to be installed in C:\Program Files so that
             | other software can't modify their installation without
             | admin permissions. Of course to do that your installer
             | needs to be run as administrator which makes the whole
             | thing rather silly.
        
               | tredre3 wrote:
               | Software installed through the Windows Store seem
               | immutable enough even though they live in the user's
               | AppData.
               | 
               | At least the system prevented me from seeing or modifying
               | the files the last time I tried. I did not try very hard,
               | admittedly, but by contrast modifying something in
               | C:\Program Files is just one UAC confirmation away.
        
         | Asmod4n wrote:
         | Defender warns you this happened.
        
         | hypeatei wrote:
         | Most users won't care, especially if the Adobe installer warns
         | them that a security warning might popup after installation.
         | Besides, in practice, any malware editing the hosts file isn't
         | going to get much because of HTTPS; one cannot simply redirect
         | "google.com" traffic to their own IP without issue.
        
       | vondur wrote:
       | If you don't like Adobe modifying your hosts file then I'd not
       | use them. The checking for the software this way is kinda
       | interesting though.
        
         | dlev_pika wrote:
         | I wonder how many Adobe users are aware of this sketchy
         | behavior tho
        
           | tonyedgecombe wrote:
           | My guess is most Adobe users have no idea there is a hosts
           | file nor what it does.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47617463
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47624990
        
       | jameskraus wrote:
       | Honestly a pretty nifty way to detect if it's installed. I'm sure
       | this can power a lot of nice features, like linking directly into
       | adobe products if they're installed.
        
         | turtlebits wrote:
         | It can power even more security issues too. This is absolutely
         | horrendous.
        
           | tonyedgecombe wrote:
           | I'm wondering how this can be exploited.
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | Agreed, at worst this is just vaguely icky feeling;
             | realistically this is a nothing burger.
             | 
             | To exploit this kind of thing you'd either need to have
             | access to someone's computer to change the hosts file
             | yourself, pointing to a different IP address, or somehow
             | gain control of Adobe's IP address and point it to a
             | different server. For the former, if you have local root
             | permission, you already own the machine, why bother with
             | this slow of an option. And the latter is already such a
             | takeover that the involvement of this hosts file change is
             | basically irrelevant.
        
             | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
             | They implemented it in a way that it only responds with a
             | valid image and a 200 status code, when the referrer is
             | adobe.com. It's probably somewhat sane given the insanity
             | that is the host files hack.
        
       | Terr_ wrote:
       | Recycling a comment from prior discussion (4 days, 68 points, 13
       | comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47617463
       | 
       | _______
       | 
       | Oh _helllll_ no. Let 's imagine an analogy for Adobe leadership:
       | 
       | 1. You hired a night janitor to clean and vacuum your executive
       | offices.
       | 
       | 2. That janitor secretly stops at every desk-phone to alter the
       | settings of voicemail accounts.
       | 
       | 3. After the change, any external caller can dial a certain
       | sequence to get a message of "Yes, this office was serviced by
       | Adobe Janitorial!"
       | 
       | What's your reaction when you discover it? Do you chuckle and say
       | something like "boys will be boys"? No! You have a panic-call,
       | Facilities revokes access, IT starts checking for other
       | unauthorized surprises, HR looks into terminating contracts, and
       | Legal advises whether you need to pursue data-breach
       | notifications or lawsuits or criminal charges.
       | 
       | * Is it acceptable because they had _some_ permission to touch
       | objects in the rooms? No.
       | 
       | * Is it acceptable because the final effect is innocuous? No.
       | 
       | * Is it acceptable because the employment contract had some vague
       | sentence about "enhancing office communication experiences"? No.
       | 
       | * Is it acceptable if they were just dumb instead of malicious?
       | No.
       | 
       | No person that would blithely cross those lines can be trusted
       | near your stuff, full-stop.
        
         | jacobgkau wrote:
         | To be fair, your analogy has one flaw:
         | 
         | > 3. After the change, any external caller can dial a certain
         | sequence to get a message of "Yes, this office was serviced by
         | Adobe Janitorial!"
         | 
         | Theoretically, it's not "any external caller." Only the
         | janitor's department calling in can dial that sequence and get
         | "Yes, you serviced this office!" If anyone else tries to dial
         | the extension, the desk-phone pretends it doesn't know what it
         | means. (Because it seems Adobe's server serving the analytics
         | image checks the request origin and only serves the image if
         | the origin is Adobe's own website.)
         | 
         | The origin "security" doesn't excuse the complexity and the
         | potential for both exploits and human-error breakage in the
         | future.
        
           | gray_-_wolf wrote:
           | > Only the janitor's department calling in can dial that
           | sequence
           | 
           | Is this the case though? Cannot any website use the same
           | trick Adobe does to check whether you have Creative Cloud
           | installed? Like, the entries in /etc/hosts are not magically
           | scoped to work just on Adobe's web, no?
        
             | bastawhiz wrote:
             | I think cors can prevent that. You can't make a cross
             | origin request from an origin that isn't allowlisted
        
               | inetknght wrote:
               | You really think a server-controlled CORS list will
               | protect you from a client-side configuration issue?
        
               | 15155 wrote:
               | Timing attack on the preflight.
        
             | jacobgkau wrote:
             | > Cannot any website use the same trick Adobe does to check
             | whether you have Creative Cloud installed?
             | 
             | That is specifically what I was talking about.
             | 
             | > (Because it seems Adobe's server serving the analytics
             | image checks the request origin and only serves the image
             | if the origin is Adobe's own website.)
             | 
             | It's additional complexity on the server side, per a Reddit
             | comment on the topic: https://old.reddit.com/r/webdev/comme
             | nts/1sb6hzk/adobe_wrote... The example curl commands given
             | seemed convincing to me, although they also demonstrate
             | that you can fake the origin pretty easily on the client
             | side.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | It's more like when you join a company the laptop is given the
         | ability to connect to an internal network for employees.
         | 
         | This is an extremely common practice.
        
       | ramon156 wrote:
       | To be fair, to crack _all_ adobe products requires a few reg
       | keys. It 's wild that they have just given up on pirates.
        
         | snapcaster wrote:
         | They don't want to be too hard on piracy, its their new/young
         | user on ramp method
        
           | kenhwang wrote:
           | Also a lot of recent features are AI related and rely on
           | talking to Adobe servers, which would require a valid
           | subscription. They're probably betting the AI features are
           | valuable enough that local only pirated copies aren't a
           | threat long term.
        
       | OptionOfT wrote:
       | Can't even reproduce it when setting location to Belgium, or CA
       | or AZ.
       | 
       | I must be missing something.
        
       | hypeatei wrote:
       | Looks like they got a wildcard certificate for
       | *.creativecloud.adobe.com[0] so that the HTTPS connection works
       | and so they don't have to publish DNS records for the "detect-
       | ccd" subdomain to obtain a cert. Pretty neat setup, but also
       | kinda hacky.
       | 
       | 0: https://crt.sh/?q=creativecloud.adobe.com
        
       | j45 wrote:
       | Make affinity sound like a smarter and smarter choice.
        
       | matsemann wrote:
       | Oh well, as a teenager, blocking adobe servers in hosts file was
       | how you got to "phone activation" and could generate a code. So I
       | guess we're even, heh.
        
         | butlike wrote:
         | That CS2 torrent was a GOAT.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | FCKGW-RHQQ2-...
        
             | 3-cheese-sundae wrote:
             | Those particular neurons of mine haven't seen action in
             | quite some time, thank you.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | So can I fool the website that I have CC installed?
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | Browsers could still do something about mixed Internet and
       | LAN/Localhost requests by IP address regardless of the domain
       | name.
        
         | SahAssar wrote:
         | This does not request a local/LAN file, it's a remote server
         | but without any DNS entry unless the hosts file entry is
         | present.
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | Did you misread the post?
         | 
         | They're doing this _because_ the localhost shenanigans got
         | blocked. This is pure internet requests, but the IP changes (or
         | fails to resolve) based on what 's in your hosts file.
        
       | 1bpp wrote:
       | I owe thousands of dollars to amtlib.dll.
        
       | psyclobe wrote:
       | The most difficult of tasks is trying to un-unstall this pos app
       | on windows.
        
       | hatradiowigwam wrote:
       | Whether it's run as root/administrator or not - you can disable
       | this behavior by setting the immutable flag on /etc/hosts. No
       | user, including root, can write to a file with the immutable flag
       | set(although root could _remove_ the attribute and then write).
        
       | throw_await wrote:
       | what happens if you happen to use a DNS server that resolves this
       | domain to the correct IP?
        
         | djfobbz wrote:
         | "Correct IP" wins ;)
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | As a general principle, application developers should not have
       | free rein to modify my system's configuration, and OS's should do
       | their part to make it very difficult for developers. Installing
       | your binaries into C:\Program Files\AppName or /usr/local/bin?
       | Fine. Dumping crap all over C:\Windows or /usr or /boot or
       | something? No way--the OS should make the developer obtain my
       | consent (not just a blanket sudo-like escalation) to do these
       | things. Sneakily modifying /etc/hosts to act against me? Get the
       | hell outta here!
        
         | mikkupikku wrote:
         | I thought the days if needing to "sudo" to install applications
         | on windows were long gone; doesn't basically everything happily
         | do user installations now? I would view a demand to escalate as
         | basically proof that the application is about to do something
         | janky, if not outright malicious. On linux, if I can't build
         | and run software with just my user account, that software has
         | some explaining to do. Virtually every desktop application
         | _should_ be able to run without escalated privileges.
        
           | Ajedi32 wrote:
           | "C:/Program Files" is still the recommended place to install
           | programs, and it requires admin privileges to write to. Some
           | programs (ab)use C:\ProgramData for that purpose instead and
           | therefore don't need admin privliges. But even with that
           | hack, ultimately Windows still uses the
           | https://xkcd.com/1200/ permission model. (Everything runs
           | with full access to all your data.)
        
           | vpShane wrote:
           | on windows and mac they just get a prompt and a lot of people
           | don't read it, care, nor wonder what it's actually doing they
           | just want it to work.
           | 
           | I know you all know this but companies will do this knowing
           | that exploiting all of us.
           | 
           | I use Linux and agreed on all those points. when I used adobe
           | before it wanted to charge me a fee to cancel my subscription
           | and wouldn't let me just 'cancel' in their system so I just
           | blocked the payments on my card and dipped out.
           | 
           | good software, garbage company
        
         | armadyl wrote:
         | > As a general principle, application developers should not
         | have free rein to modify my system's configuration, and OS's
         | should do their part to make it very difficult for developers.
         | 
         | Funny enough macOS, iOS, iPadOS and Android do this and they
         | are constantly attacked for it.
         | 
         | I do think there needs to be more strict adherence by
         | developers to standards like XDG but I don't know how it could
         | be enforced.
        
           | nulld3v wrote:
           | They are constantly attacked because they prevent _users_
           | from modifying the system configuration, not just app
           | developers.
        
             | simondotau wrote:
             | From the operating system's perspective, everything is the
             | user. Or everything is an app developer. Depends on
             | perspective. Disambiguating reliably, in a way you'd
             | consider reasonable, is not trivial (and arguably
             | impossible).
        
               | nulld3v wrote:
               | I'm not sure I fully understand you. All those OSes try
               | very, very hard to disambiguate between apps and the user
               | itself?
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | > I do think there needs to be more strict adherence by
           | developers to standards like XDG but I don't know how it
           | could be enforced.
           | 
           | It can't be enforced. Developers can and will always do
           | whatever they want with the tools available. For good ends
           | (Adobe) or for ill (malware).
           | 
           | If you try to fix it with sandboxing and closed app stores
           | (Apple forcing sandboxing and using SIP), you get attacked.
           | If you don't try to fix it and let devs do as they please
           | (Microsoft allowing host file editing), you get attacked. The
           | conclusion of these incompatible goals? HN and nerds have
           | zero relevance in policy discussions, because they don't have
           | a consistent policy to offer [1].
           | 
           | [1] Unless, of course, you define "devs shouldn't be able to
           | do anything bad even if they choose" and "users should be
           | able to anything bad if they choose" and "users should be
           | able to write their own software capable of bad things while
           | simultaneously not being held to the standard of devs" as a
           | compatible principled position.
        
             | anfilt wrote:
             | I think somewhat sand boxed is fine, but the user should at
             | the end of the day be allowed to let things out or get out
             | if it.
             | 
             | The problem with things like iOS is the user can't make
             | that choice. Also what you call 'bad' is up to the user. At
             | the end of the day a user should be able to adjust things
             | even at root level or request other software to do that on
             | their behalf. Heck for iDevices owners should be able to
             | load their own signing keys at a minimum for the Boot-ROM.
             | 
             | As for Adobe most people would not expect their software to
             | touch the host file, so it's fine to call them out here.
             | Someone using a utility or tool that you would expect to
             | edit the host file that's fine, and people should be able
             | to use or make such a tool. (The os should not prevent the
             | user/owner if that's what they want).
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Yea, that's what I was getting at. The user should be
               | king. Not the application developer, not the OS vendor.
               | The user should be able to easily say yes/no to these
               | things and have the final say.
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | > _Installing your binaries into C:\Program Files\AppName or
         | /usr/local/bin? Fine._
         | 
         | I used to have this opinion too.
         | 
         | Then I decided that I actually don't want random things to
         | install to `/usr/local/bin`. They should install to
         | `${HOME}/.local/bin`. I should be perfectly capable of
         | installing any application without modifying the system for
         | every user.
        
         | dev_l1x_be wrote:
         | > developers should not have free rein to modify my system's
         | configuration
         | 
         | s/free rein/the ability/
         | 
         | I am a big believer in read only operating systems. /etc should
         | not be writable.
        
           | zymhan wrote:
           | We get it, you like Nix
        
         | qq66 wrote:
         | This is why I love iOS in many ways: it's very difficult for an
         | app to have "action at a distance" inside your OS. If you
         | force-quit the app it's pretty much like it never existed.
        
       | dpedu wrote:
       | I installed Creative Cloud just last week. No such entry was
       | created in the hosts file on my macOs system.
        
       | cyanydeez wrote:
       | Are we sure this is to detect Creative Cloud instead of, trying
       | to detect whether you have/had a pirated version of Adobe
       | installed? Some reference material I've seen often involved
       | blackholing adobe hosts to prevent installation software from
       | verifying or otherwise talking to adobe.
        
       | dblohm7 wrote:
       | I don't know whether is still does this, but 8-9 years ago I
       | discovered that Acrobat overwrites the COM registry entries for
       | Microsoft Active Accessibility (oleacc.dll) such that any
       | application attempting to instantiate MSAA gets the Adobe DLL
       | instead of the system DLL. This actually broke the stuff I was
       | working on and had to override it in my app manifest to forcibly
       | use the system version.
       | 
       | I inquired about it and got some BS about how they absolutely
       | _had_ to do this to intercept MSAA instantiations across the
       | system, when in reality they were using a global solution to
       | solve a local problem.
        
       | reactordev wrote:
       | Adobe has been user hostile since Create Suite launched. Where
       | were you? They have been hiding backdoors in windows machines and
       | Mac machines since at least 2010.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2026-04-06 23:00 UTC)