[HN Gopher] My Google Workspace account suspension
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My Google Workspace account suspension
        
       Author : zenincognito
       Score  : 325 points
       Date   : 2026-04-05 11:48 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (zencapital.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (zencapital.substack.com)
        
       | pluc wrote:
       | Time since paying Google customers had to resort to social media
       | outrage to obtain decent resolution: 0 days
       | 
       | Good luck to you
        
       | Klaster_1 wrote:
       | This should be illegal. Megacorps eat more and more of our life
       | and regular people are increasingly at mercy of these hostile
       | entities. They should be pushed more against. If we can't have
       | proper anti monopoly splits like AT&T, then at least ways to
       | prevent them exerting too much power are long due. If you provide
       | an essential service, responsibility should match that.
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | Excreting power. What an awesome mental image.
         | 
         | "Exerting" would be more correct I guess but less fun.
        
           | neom wrote:
           | Funny because I have dyslexia and read excreting power as
           | exerting power, and then had to read your "Exerting"
           | underneath 4 times to understand the mistake. I guess it's
           | the phonics, dyslexia is so weird tho, ha.
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | Hey do you have certain fonts that are better? I was
             | working with a dyslexic student last week trying to find
             | fonts that work better for his online classes. All the
             | research pointed towards a handful that didn't seem to
             | really improve processing for the student.
        
               | neom wrote:
               | They tried all sorts with me in school, I seem to recall
               | it's related to trying to add shadow to hint to the brain
               | the direction the letter should be etc. I found it more
               | annoying than helpful. Probably a very unpopular opinion
               | but I think teaching someone with dyslexia to read and
               | write neurotypically is probably unhelpful and finding
               | audio visual learning methods is a considerably better
               | way to have them retain knowledge. I think you can get to
               | a basic level of competency but speed and recall, at
               | least with me, never really came. One thing I found once
               | that was cool was an app that present each word at a time
               | only in the center of the screen, but it felt extremely
               | mechanical I was so focused on the words once I was done
               | there was basically no meaning left if that makes sense.
               | I'm autistic with dyscalculia also, FWIW. I mostly think
               | in sounds, pictures and movies, for whatever reason my
               | brain doesn't have a great framework for symbols that
               | don't have those things inherently attached to them.
               | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Was this one of the font's they tried?
               | 
               | https://opendyslexic.org
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Yes, there needs to be a government public service counter
         | where you can go with all your BigTech issues and complaints.
        
           | dotandgtfo wrote:
           | This is one of the goals of the digital services act.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | The EU isn't as bad as some Americans want to believe.
        
               | ToucanLoucan wrote:
               | They aren't perfect but at least they try. All our
               | government does is bomb brown people and cut taxes for
               | the wealthy.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | The EU's heart is in the right place, which can only
               | rarely be said of the US.
               | 
               | But the EU's approach is often backwards. When product
               | managers have to ask the government if it's ok to ship a
               | feature, something is wrong. When the government responds
               | that it can't say in advance, you'll just have to ship
               | and see if you get fined, something is really seriously
               | broken.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | If a company is about to produce millions of physical
               | products, I think it is quite ok if they first check with
               | the government to see if that is a good idea.
               | 
               | Same with social media features that are rolled out to
               | millions of users.
        
               | warkdarrior wrote:
               | This is about Digital Services Act, not physical
               | products.
        
         | jjav wrote:
         | There needs to be a law that every cloud-based service which
         | has accounts for more than (say) 1% of population, must have a
         | physical service counter presence in every major town staffed
         | by an employee who must be empowered to resolve all account
         | access issues.
         | 
         | Notice how phone carries manage to have a shop in every little
         | strip mall, you're never more than a few miles from the nearest
         | one. Google takes in far more revenue, can easily afford the
         | same. Or they could even just partner with the phone carriers
         | and have a staffed desk in every tmobile/at&t/verizon shop.
        
           | cube00 wrote:
           | Staffed desks would just tell you they need to open a ticket.
           | 
           | No company will give full account unlock control to field
           | employees.
           | 
           | Even the bank teller behind the glass needs to phone their
           | internal fraud dept to unlock accounts.
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | > needs to phone their internal fraud dept
             | 
             | Except the bank teller has already authenticated you and
             | internal fraud will pick up the phone...
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | "Despite repeatedly explaining this, they ignored my assertions
       | and continue to hold my email hostage."
       | 
       | Well, you have become the product here. That also happens by
       | other "free" email providers too. I had this happen to me on
       | inbox.lt; the guy demanded I use a smartphone to "prove" my
       | identity. At that point I realised they want to connect this data
       | to the account and sell it to others who are interested in that.
        
         | dagss wrote:
         | Google Workspace isn't free, it is a paid for plan.
        
         | zenincognito wrote:
         | its $13 per month for a basic plan.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | What do you add to humanity with this crappy take? Why are you
         | shitty to the victim?
        
           | techteach00 wrote:
           | Because his honest and accurate diagnosis for why mega tech
           | corps treat people inhumanely is the first step towards
           | stopping it. In my opinion of course.
        
             | skeeter2020 wrote:
             | 1. they're wrong in their basic understanding; this is not
             | a free product
             | 
             | 2. the response is glib and lacks any empathy
             | 
             | 3. there's no suggestions of possible action or resolution
             | path
             | 
             | 4. it is all opinion and low value / low effort
             | 
             | So even if it's an "honest and accurate diagnosis" that you
             | agree with, it's not helpful, valuable or even comforting.
             | We can do better.
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | What's a good alternative to Google Workspace for SMB
             | customers?
        
               | samlinnfer wrote:
               | Office365?
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | Microsoft 365 is a reasonable alternative. It's easy to
               | buy and even tiny Customers can get a degree of real
               | human (read: tier 1 is unhelpful contractors that you
               | have to fight thru) support.
               | 
               | It's still repugnant to me, as compared to self-hosting,
               | but I would never self-host for a greenfield SMB Customer
               | today. The economics don't make sense and the talent pool
               | of knowledgeable and reasonable sysadmins is dwindling by
               | the day. (I wouldn't want to make a Customer so beholden
               | to me if they were willing to pay for it.)
               | 
               | I miss being able to spin-up an on-prem email server on a
               | box with reasonable hardware redundancy, some external
               | USB disks to rotate for off-site backup, a UPS, a couple
               | consumer-grade "business class" Internet connections, and
               | a contracted "backup MX" to catch email in the event of
               | an outage. It was a good enough for a lot of small SMBs
               | who had a physical office, and was cheap.
        
               | Lihh27 wrote:
               | The economics make perfect sense once "30 days of a
               | suspended business email with no timely recourse" shows
               | up as a line item. That USB disk and a UPS is looking
               | pretty cheap right about now.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | OP really should be moving the MX somewhere else and
               | going into disaster contingency mode. It sucks, but
               | there's a level of survival there they should be willing
               | to accept, at least temporarily.
        
       | pbowyer wrote:
       | Dealing with Google is a nightmare. I'm one of the volunteer
       | sysadmins for https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/, a DIY and self-
       | build forum. For 10 years it ranked very well on Google,
       | particularly in the UK, and then on 28 December 2025 it
       | disappeared from Google's index.
       | 
       | Nothing has helped, the Google forums are tumbleweed and there's
       | no one to reach out to for what could be an algorithm change or
       | something gone wrong. I'm a paying Workspace customer and it's
       | made me think I need a backup plan in case I'm ever suspended.
       | Reports like this don't encourage.
        
         | ValentineC wrote:
         | > _Nothing has helped, the Google forums are tumbleweed and
         | there 's no one to reach out to for what could be an algorithm
         | change or something gone wrong._
         | 
         | The own-brand forum (Google, Microsoft, Apple) seem to be
         | infested by netizens from lower-income countries trying to
         | build online customer support portfolios by providing utterly
         | useless answers.
         | 
         | That, or trying to game the system and getting shortlisted for
         | a free trip to Google HQ for one of their contributor summits.
        
           | mjlee wrote:
           | I am genuinely curious if anybody knows of a non-trivial
           | problem being solved on one of these forums, at least for a
           | huge company that's palming off customer support. It just
           | feels like screaming in to the void, only for someone to
           | (deliberately?) misinterpret your question and give you some
           | generic advice.
        
             | locao wrote:
             | It depends on what you call "non-trivial". I found answers
             | on how to circumvent dumb macos bugs on Apple forums at
             | least twice in the last 6 months. One related to displays,
             | I was about to return a new USB-C monitor which wouldn't
             | turn on. A silly issue, but it's a bug on my book, I
             | wouldn't find the answer on the docs.
        
             | omcnoe wrote:
             | Every suggestion when encountering a Windows OS bug is "run
             | sfc /scannow" - has this ever solved a problem for anyone?
        
       | samlinnfer wrote:
       | I can't believe I'm praising Microsoft (Office365) here but it
       | actually has a track record of actually having support, support
       | people that you can talk on the phone with and knows how to
       | navigate the dark corners of their convoluted systems and
       | actually solved my problems (even if it was caused by Microsoft's
       | horrific UI in the first place).
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | An article here a couple of days ago said that the automation
         | behind the scenes in Azure is piss poor and the whole thing is
         | held together by thousands of contractors manually fixing the
         | endless failures.
         | 
         | On the plus side, it does mean they have thousands of people
         | who know how to fix problems.
         | 
         | edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47616242
        
           | faidit wrote:
           | At Google there is one guy who knows how to fix the problem..
           | he's a monk who is also in 700 different teams and the only
           | one who remembers how the systems were built. You have to
           | climb all the way up to his mountain abode, hope that he is
           | home and pray that he will hear your cries and help you
        
             | prerok wrote:
             | There's a long queue up that mountain, though.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | Any painful automation story feels very different from their
           | customer service. MS has always been superior to their
           | competition with customer service - especially paid service
           | contracts - because it's far closer to their identity: very
           | long-term, tightly integrated enterprise. Google has never
           | had this; even the idea of paying for support came very late
           | (and reluctantly) to them.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _MS has always been superior to their competition with
             | customer service - especially paid service contracts -
             | because it 's far closer to their identity: very long-term,
             | tightly integrated enterprise. Google has never had this;
             | even the idea of paying for support came very late (and
             | reluctantly) to them._
             | 
             | If we're comparing cloud services, surely GCP has customer
             | service? I can't imagine any big enterprise using it
             | otherwise.
        
       | pzmarzly wrote:
       | I guess one way to protect yourself from this would be to use
       | another IAM solution for SSO login to Google Workspace, but is
       | there any reasonable choice for small businesses other than Entra
       | ID or Okta?
        
         | gchamonlive wrote:
         | There's always keycloak you can rollout yourself. It's not
         | trivial but it's quite doable.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Thanks for the pointer,
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47649354
           | 
           | edit: looks like there are affordable managed hosting
           | providers for keycloak.
        
           | watusername wrote:
           | Instead of Keycloak, I would recommend giving Kanidm a try:
           | It's much more lightweight and covers most of what you
           | usually need (one notable exception being SAML).
           | 
           | https://github.com/kanidm/kanidm
        
       | protimewaster wrote:
       | I think Google has done some cool stuff, and I think in a lot of
       | ways they're, at least historically, one of the less evil big
       | tech players.
       | 
       | I gotta say, though, that my experience with trying to get them
       | to sort out any kind of issue with their services makes me
       | reluctant to spend any money with them.
       | 
       | I bought a Pixel phone. As per the sales terms, the phone came
       | with one year of Gemini AI Pro service. Except, the redemption
       | process to get the year of service didn't work for me. I
       | contacted Google, they never fixed it or offered any solution. I
       | simply didn't get the year of service I was promised.
       | 
       | My friend, who bought a Pixel around the same time, also wasn't
       | able to get the year of Gemini they were promised.
       | 
       | That same friend has a Google One subscription, billed through
       | their phone carrier. Recently, Google (or the provider?)
       | discontinued that specific Google One plan, as well as the option
       | to bill via your carrier. This was all covered in an email sent
       | to my friend. As consolation, the email explained, my friend was
       | given the option to switch to a different plan, billed monthly by
       | Google (instead of their phone carrier), with 6 months free.
       | Except, the new plan, and the 6 months free, wasn't selectable as
       | a plan type for their account. So my friend emails Google about
       | it and, to my complete lack of surprise, Google was
       | unwilling/unable to provide any resolution.
       | 
       | At this point, I legitimately don't understand why, unless I had
       | no other option, I would pick Google for services. They clearly
       | put no real effort into resolving any service issues for any
       | customer that's not spending millions with them.
        
         | HumanOstrich wrote:
         | I agree with your sentiment, but I wanted to call out that
         | they've always been just as evil as other big tech companies.
         | 
         | I think their motto of "don't be evil" was some pretty clever
         | PR.
         | 
         | I started questioning it c. 2008 when they ghosted me on
         | resolving an issue with my blogspot site that was a bug in the
         | platform. All I could get was a condescending non-response from
         | a "diamond" volunteer on a forum. They were apparently the
         | gatekeepers to reaching actual support.
        
           | mhitza wrote:
           | They weren't always evil, not in my opinion.
           | 
           | Back in the day they bought Feedburner, and merged it with
           | their internal equivalent. In that process, my subscriber
           | list was affected. They apologized and even sent out some
           | swag. That was nice, for a small inconvenience at the time.
           | 
           | Today? humans don't even seem to be involved.
        
           | protimewaster wrote:
           | I definitely don't think they've ever been super nice, but I
           | still they still have a few much more user-friendly
           | approaches than others. E.g., one of the reasons I bought a
           | Pixel is that Google is one of the only phone makers that
           | manages to have respectable security practices and still
           | respects users enough support them choosing to modify the
           | software on their devices and run alternate operating
           | systems.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | Disagree. Even with their issues, they're still less evil
           | than MS, Apple and especially Oracle or Meta.
           | 
           | If they didn't have all their issues (discontinuing products,
           | bad customer service) they'd probably be bigger than MS and
           | Apple combined. But here we are.
           | 
           | Also for better or worse, I pay for bundled Google storage +
           | Gemini and YouTube separately, it's still worth it, even
           | without free months or whatever. And still better than being
           | in MS or Apple's ecosystem.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | > it's still worth it, even without free months or whatever
             | 
             | Until you go of the rails of their processes and have your
             | account closed with no recourse.
        
               | dismalaf wrote:
               | Sometimes I worry about this but everytime I see an
               | example of it I feel better (because most examples
               | involve the person doing weird things).
        
           | roelschroeven wrote:
           | I think their "Don't be evil" was pretty close to the truth,
           | as much as it can be for large corporations, until around the
           | time Google purchased DoubleClick. That was in 2008, so that
           | seems to match your experience.
        
           | lokar wrote:
           | Well, the actual phrase came from an engineer.
        
             | mentalgear wrote:
             | Also, the executives 'retired' the official 'Don't be evil'
             | slogan some time ago. I guess they didn't want to be
             | limited. Seems fitting to the suits.
        
         | subscribed wrote:
         | Same. Purchased Pixel 9 Pro XL, didn't get my year of Gemini or
         | Google One, technical missuport couldn't be bothered circling
         | between all the investigation steps I did and re-did already
         | and tej "fixes" that have been verified ate not fixing
         | anything.
         | 
         | "Support" agents couldn't be bothered - this feels like AI
         | trapping me in the tarpit maze to save a few USD on the disk
         | storage and infefence cost, effectively scamming me.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | Sounds more like a question why there isn't a class action and
         | deregulation push against them.
         | 
         | People really fail to unionize when they can just piss in the
         | wind.
        
         | calvinmorrison wrote:
         | > I contacted Google, they never fixed it or offered any
         | solution. I simply didn't get the year of service I was
         | promised.
         | 
         | Contract violation. The problem is it's simply too burdensome
         | to go to small claims court.
        
           | Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
           | If you do, it's also possible they ban your personal account
        
         | Evidlo wrote:
         | Anyone have an idea whether it would be practical to go to
         | small claims court? I'm curious if this is a path consumers can
         | take if a corporation breaks an agreement?
        
           | profsummergig wrote:
           | You'd have to go in the same jurisdiction as they're
           | incorporated. I think (IANAL).
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | I think a service chasing google around in courts for
             | disputes would do quite well.
        
           | ajb wrote:
           | Depends on your jurisdiction, of course. (I am not a lawyer
           | and this is not legal advice, merely my impressions). In the
           | UK this would likely be worth it if the injury is a specified
           | financial amount. So for people who have paid for something
           | and simply not got it, a small claims court is a good bet for
           | getting a refund. A lot of the time however, the injury is in
           | the consequences of relying on one of these companies
           | services, and having it withdrawn without notice, as in the
           | OP. Usually, you want service restored, as that is in fact
           | the least costly action for both sides. But small claims
           | courts (in the UK) do not make that kind of order. In theory
           | you could sue for the financial consequences of the abrupt
           | withdrawal, but I'd guess that's too complicated for a small
           | claim.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > ... my experience with trying to get them to sort out any
         | kind of issue with their services makes me reluctant to spend
         | any money with them.
         | 
         | When you pay for Google Workspace you are the client, not the
         | customer and they _do_ answer phone calls for support. The only
         | two times my wife and I needed them for our SMEs, they picked
         | up the phone and helped us resolve our issues. Super
         | professional too. Haven 't needed to give them a call in
         | something like 8 years now.
         | 
         | Don't know about Pixel phone and Google One subscriptions but
         | for SMEs Google Workspace is a godsend: it's incredibly cheap
         | per employee and it's the way out of the Microsoft mediocrity.
         | Everything only requires a browser, no matter the OS (wife
         | works from Linux and now added a Mac Mini, for example):
         | Windows can, at long last, get the middle finger in SMEs.
         | 
         | I'll forever be thankful to Google for allowing me to help many
         | people get rid of Microsoft products, including Windows.
        
         | deanc wrote:
         | It took me 13 years to get them to unban my adsense account. To
         | this day I still have no idea what happened and have assumed it
         | was a competitor sending fake clicks or something.
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | > I think Google has done some cool stuff, and I think in a lot
         | of ways they're, at least historically, one of the less evil
         | big tech players.
         | 
         | It's been a decade since Google broke their promise not to use
         | information gleaned from your use of their services to sell
         | ads.
         | 
         | > Google quietly erased that last privacy line in the sand --
         | literally crossing out the lines in its privacy policy that
         | promised to keep the two pots of data separate by default. In
         | its place, Google substituted new language that says browsing
         | habits "may be" combined with what the company learns from the
         | use Gmail and other tools.
         | 
         | https://psmag.com/news/googles-broken-privacy-promise/
        
         | nhuser2221 wrote:
         | Protonmail is the solution, or hosting your own email server
         | but that one is more complex.
        
           | puppycodes wrote:
           | unfortunately hosting your own email server is nearly
           | impossible if you want reliable delivery. If you don't care
           | about being put in the spam box then it can work.
        
         | JimmyBiscuit wrote:
         | They sold me a Pixel phone with a broken battery (I think 6a?
         | Where the battery fails after 400 charging cycles). I got an
         | email and the offer to just get 100$ in cash from them instead
         | of sending my phone away to get it fixed. I never received the
         | money after filling out all the forms. Fuck google.
        
           | rustyhancock wrote:
           | My pixel 7 battery was dreadful, and despite it being
           | promised to come with 3 months of YouTube premium and Music I
           | didn't successfully redeem either.
           | 
           | I admit once it didn't work I didn't reach out to support but
           | the entire experience was shit sandwich after shit sandwich.
        
             | dvngnt_ wrote:
             | I had to disable 5G on my pixel 8 to get decent battery
             | life
        
         | greyb wrote:
         | >I bought a Pixel phone. As per the sales terms, the phone came
         | with one year of Gemini AI Pro service. Except, the redemption
         | process to get the year of service didn't work for me. I
         | contacted Google, they never fixed it or offered any solution.
         | I simply didn't get the year of service I was promised.
         | 
         | I fixed this by deleting the subscription data for Google One
         | (which also refunded me a prorated amount for my Google One
         | plan), and then waiting a day.
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | Once upon a time at Google: The year was 2013, and I'd been
       | selected to be among the first 8,000 people to get Google Glass.
       | I had to go to Google HQ in NYC from my home in Virginia to get
       | it and be instructed 1:1 on how to use it. I was given a toll-
       | free phone number to call for support by a Glass expert,
       | available 24/7/365.
       | 
       | Not only did they answer immediately whenever I had even the
       | smallest problem or question: I twice broke my Glass, and each
       | time I'd call the support number to ask for a replacement.
       | 
       | Google's policy was that no matter how you broke it or how many
       | times it happened, they'd replace it free. They'd immediately
       | send a box to return the broken device (prepaid) and a couple
       | days later a brand new Glass would arrive.
       | 
       | Like I said, once upon a time....
        
         | yomismoaqui wrote:
         | The thing here is the 8.000 Glass early adopters vs the
         | hundred-millions (billions maybe?) of Google workspace users.
         | 
         | It's not the same league, not even the same sport.
         | 
         | PS: Not defending Google here, their support for some products
         | is abysmal
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | You are correct. I agree 100%. It's easy to be great when
           | it's on a tiny scale.
        
             | blueboo wrote:
             | Billions in profit may unblock scaling customer support
             | beyond scrappy startup minimums
             | 
             | However (and I loathe this logic) if you can get the
             | marketplace to accept that minimal level, and the brand
             | harm is inconsequential, why not pocket the savings
        
               | anjel wrote:
               | Those are not matter-of-fact saving, but rather
               | significant savings
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | > and the brand harm is inconsequential
               | 
               | That's the thing though. Google have destroyed their
               | brand through these kinds of actions, over many years.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | You were a volunteer employee. The very least they could do is
         | make sure you can keep doing the job.
         | 
         | I think organizations have a very hard time staying motivated
         | once the product's concern has moved away from any one team.
         | While you test the product for them there's likely people whose
         | jobs depended on you and 7999 others doing so. But eventually a
         | product will be considered shipped and all the various talent
         | now pays attention to what's next.
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | Well put.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | > Google's policy was that no matter how you broke it or how
         | many times it happened, they'd replace it free.
         | 
         | Yes, because they were using you to figure out where it needed
         | improvements for every day wear and tear. It wasn't charitable,
         | it was R&D expense.
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | True. I loved my Glass, it was amazing.
        
         | livinglist wrote:
         | Still remember the excitement I felt when I saw this Google
         | Glass concept video in 2012:
         | https://youtu.be/5R1snVxGNVs?si=sVS7wzZ8jYH-oGMM
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | How about this real-life Glass video I made in 2013 a month
           | after I got mine; forty minutes long, recording the entirely
           | of a 5K race!
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/Pu8HTrXI84g?si=puSZt5fYbR69yslo
        
             | livinglist wrote:
             | Very nostalgic, thx for sharing!
        
             | JoshTriplett wrote:
             | That's fascinating. The stabilization is surprisingly good.
             | And there's a kind of out-of-focus _pulsing_ that happens
             | to the video periodically. I 'm wondering if that might be
             | your pulse against the Glass, abruptly moving the Glass in
             | a way that its stabilization couldn't compensate for.
        
         | assimpleaspossi wrote:
         | I bought the Google 3-pod wifi system when it first came out.
         | There was an 844 number for support on the back. I remember
         | calling it when I didn't understand something and got an
         | instant pickup by support staff.
         | 
         | With this comment in mind, I just now called that same number
         | with an instant pickup telling me they no longer take support
         | calls at that number.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | Yep, monopolistic loss leaders can feel great when they're
         | showering you with expensive marketing, right up until they
         | reliably pull the rug in an effort to screw everyone or recoup
         | their losses.
        
         | ctippett wrote:
         | It was only a few years ago that they offered all of their
         | Stadia subscribers a full refund for every dollar they ever
         | spent on the platform. By this point their reputation for
         | customer service was well and truly known, but colour me
         | surprised when I received a not insignificant sum credited to
         | my bank account from Google.
         | 
         | I saw it mentioned in a comment elsewhere in this thread, but
         | the level of service you get really seems dependant on which
         | pocket of Google is responsible for the product you happen to
         | be using. Unfortunately Workspace is a giant pocket with many
         | billions of users with suboptimal and/or perpetually exhausted
         | support.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | At least he owns his own domain and can eventually switch over. A
       | few years ago we decided to switch our personal emails from gmail
       | accounts to domains we own (though the email is still handled by
       | google.) This way if we ever lose our google account, we can
       | switch the MX and be able to get all our recovery emails, bank
       | second factors, password recoveries, etc.
        
         | l72 wrote:
         | They could switch their domain to another email provider and
         | start getting emails, which is great. The problem though, is
         | they also used their Google Account to log in to all the 3rd
         | party services (payroll). I have no idea how you would get back
         | into those services. Some _might_ let you switch off the Google
         | Sign-in SSO, but I imagine that is a headache.
        
       | vednig wrote:
       | Been there done that, none of it works, till this date my YouTube
       | account is suspended and they can't do a thing about it.
       | 
       | Google Drive & Workspace are their most poorly designed products
       | with the shittiest support ecosystem. Google would rather bleed
       | money than work on it.
       | 
       | That's one of reason I started DoShare Personal Cloud[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://getcloud.doshare.me
        
       | 0xpgm wrote:
       | Instead of getting more dependant on Big Tech's AI products, I
       | think the perfect use for AI is develop tools and workflows that
       | decouple one from Big Tech.
        
       | oybng wrote:
       | This occurs to dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of people
       | on a daily basis. It happened to me many years ago. This is your
       | opportunity to escape, instead you cry out here for attention.
       | How pathetic
        
       | cj wrote:
       | Using a Google Workspace Super Admin account for your non-admin
       | day to day needs is similar to using your AWS root account
       | instead of IAM users.
       | 
       | In my experience Google Workspave support is very good. I've
       | always been able to get a knowledgeable person on a call to debug
       | issues without much difficulty.
       | 
       | But yea, if you're locked out of your admin account, that's
       | another story. Very sjmilar to if you get locked out of your AWS
       | root account. It's a nightmare to recover.
        
         | ValentineC wrote:
         | > _Using a Google Workspace Super Admin account for your non-
         | admin day to day needs is similar to using your AWS root
         | account instead of IAM users._
         | 
         | It sounds like the mistake here is not appointing another Super
         | Admin, and making sure _they_ don 't use their account for day
         | to day needs. Or just having two Super Admin accounts
         | controlled by the same person, heh.
         | 
         | I can't see how not using one's Super Admin account wouldn't
         | prevent tripping some kind of fraud lockout that's impossible
         | to recover from.
         | 
         | Randomly, I just remembered that I lost a GCP account because I
         | tried logging in from Laos, and they asked me for the front and
         | back photos of a payment card that I used ages ago that I
         | didn't bother making scans of before it was lost. Urgh.
        
           | pfooti wrote:
           | Make a primary super admin (admin@ whatever) and only log
           | into it for admin purposes. Make an actual user (you@) for
           | day to day line of business work. This has the benefit of
           | making some categories of spear phishing and xsrf attacks
           | harder if the account that gets compromised doesn't have
           | root.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | That's what I've been doing.
             | 
             | It doesn't address this thread's concern that a single
             | Super Admin could be locked out with no recourse, since
             | Google's customer support is horrendously bad.
        
         | e40 wrote:
         | So you're saying for a simple setup of 1 user, you really need
         | to pay for 2 users. The admin account and the real user you
         | want to use, which doubles the cost.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | In an ideal world, 3 users, because you want a backup admin
           | in case your primary admin is lost.
           | 
           | I don't love it either, but these are Google's published best
           | practices / recommendations
        
       | r1ch wrote:
       | I recently had to go through the recovery flow for an admin
       | account and it was wild. Despite Google manually unlocking the
       | account and giving me a reset link, every login was forced to
       | authenticate via SMS using the (removed) phone number. Luckily I
       | was able to get a hold of it and get the code, but even after
       | adding a TOTP and security key 2FA, further logins still required
       | SMS.
       | 
       | It feels like the security team made this change to reduce
       | account hijacking but it's at complete odds with the recovery
       | flow and modern security practices. Better hope your phone number
       | doesn't get hijacked or recycled because it's the key to your
       | account now, security keys be damned.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Google enabled 2FA on my Gmail account without any prior
         | notice. I have the username, password, recovery email, and all
         | emails from the account are forwarded to my Fastmail, but I
         | can't ever log into the account again because it is trying to
         | do 2FA by SMS to a number I don't have.
         | 
         | I've tried everything to find someone inside Google to fix
         | this, but so far no luck. At least with Meta you can find
         | someone on a forum like Swapd who will take a small bribe to
         | fix these issues.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | > At least with Meta you can find someone on a forum like
           | Swapd who will take a small bribe ...
           | 
           | That sounds like its own kind of problems. (!)
        
           | atomicfiredoll wrote:
           | Very similar situation. I could even see information being
           | sent to the recovery email. So, when the time came to setup
           | my business, I chose Zoho and avoid Google whenever possible.
        
           | subscribed wrote:
           | My SO has identical situation. Identical. She still receives
           | emails for this account because she set forwarding years ago,
           | I still get notifications because I'm set as a recovery
           | account, but without the phone she doesn't have for the last
           | 15 years we have no way of logging in.
           | 
           | We have everything else but this alone is not enough.
        
           | subscribed wrote:
           | You could rephrase this meta thing as "Meta employee can
           | successfully coerce an adult into sex by promising Instagram
           | account unban" - more accurate IMO: https://showtime-
           | fqi8q.s3.amazonaws.com/onlyfans-star-slept-...
        
       | Jimmc414 wrote:
       | Google needs to understand that watching this nightmare scenario
       | play out over and over again is actively destroying trust in
       | their platform. When your email, authentication, documents,
       | payroll, and CRM all flow through a single provider and that
       | provider can lock you out overnight with no meaningful recourse,
       | you've invited customers to place their entire digital presence
       | into a house of cards. The fact that this same story surfaces
       | almost daily should be a wake up call to existing and prospective
       | customers. Every unresolved lockout is one more reason to start
       | planning an exit. Google has led the effort to lower the bar so
       | much that it's commonplace and somehow acceptable to ghost paying
       | customers who youve locked out or even worse bounce them through
       | a gauntlet of AI chat bots with the illusion that you are even
       | aware of the damage you've caused.
        
         | tracerbulletx wrote:
         | Yeah, loss of a google account in certain cases can destroy
         | entire small businesses and there's no recourse. In the old
         | world we had extremely deep bodies of case law around utilities
         | and commercial leases and road access, insurance and all kinds
         | of things to make business operation legally predictable, but
         | for the digital equivalent it's still the wild west and
         | everyone just throws up their hands like its unavoidable.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Imagine being homeless, and your Gmail account is your online
           | identity for what little financial presence you have, and how
           | in the world can you recover from its loss?
        
           | Rastonbury wrote:
           | On the surface it seems like it would be a good idea for all
           | these users who were suspended to do a mass arbitration like
           | what happened to Uber to get them to start taking it
           | seriously, this comes up like monthly people getting account
           | pulled up from under them and impacting business. Maybe there
           | a legal differences or something https://www.mbelr.org/mass-
           | arbitration-how-ubers-own-alterna...
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | I don't disagree, but the reality is SaaS is the model that
         | most companies depend on and these risks exist everywhere.
         | 
         | If your business is dependent on services you need to take a
         | modicum of effort to protect yourself - the posts author was
         | literally walking around with his entire business at risk from
         | him dropping his phone or having it pickpocketed.
         | 
         | At the end of the day, the protagonist in this story is mad
         | because Google won't allow him to social engineer access to his
         | company. He deleted his sole token (Google makes it trivial to
         | add _many_ ) in the most fraud signally way possible.
        
           | quadrifoliate wrote:
           | > He deleted his sole token (Google makes it trivial to add
           | many) in the most fraud signally way possible.
           | 
           | Are we reading the same blog post? He had his password, 2FA
           | authenticator set up, and backup codes -- everything Google
           | asks you to have to be on the "golden" auth path.
           | 
           | He only deleted his SMS authentication path (one thing I
           | don't understand is how he was able to do this in the first
           | place without being logged in), which is in any case the
           | _least secure method of 2FA_. Also, It should be fairly
           | obvious that SMS is not expected to work seamlessly while
           | traveling, how is this not a scenario that 's hit by millions
           | of Google users worldwide?
        
             | Spooky23 wrote:
             | We're hearing one side of the story from a frustrated user
             | recounting a borderline traumatic and stressful event.
             | 
             | The SMS only fallback is when other things have failed and
             | they suspect that there's been a takeover. Microsoft does
             | something similar to tie it to some tangible thing. I'm not
             | excusing Google. Their exception handling is poor at best.
             | I've seen issues at customers where phones left in flight
             | get flagged because of GPS disruptions due to Middle East
             | conflicts, for example. (Phones flagged as having been in
             | Syria or Russia can be kryptonite) One scenario was a VIP
             | whose kid was in Europe with their other parent and the
             | VIP's tablet, signed into work email.
             | 
             | Other factors apply too - there may be multiple accounts
             | tied to the number that are in different locales, for
             | example. No idea what obnoxious rules Australia and UK add
             | as well.
             | 
             | Point is, this type of shit happens and you should have a
             | contingency.
        
               | quadrifoliate wrote:
               | > Point is, this type of shit happens and you should have
               | a contingency.
               | 
               | Let's work through what the contingency could have been.
               | Always make sure you buy international roaming everywhere
               | you go? Always be able to switch your MX records (from a
               | provider whose account _isn 't_ tied to a Google-
               | controlled email)?
               | 
               | They seem to get increasingly less practical to be
               | honest. People travel all over the world everyday, this
               | shit shouldn't be hard for a company like Google that
               | supposedly ingests mountains of data.
               | 
               | More to the point, I think email has become sort of a
               | fundamental right given how much of your identity depends
               | on it. Companies that control this sort of identity
               | foundation need to be heavily regulated, and perhaps
               | nationalized.
        
       | welder wrote:
       | > I removed my phone number from the account. I am travelling to
       | the UK for a short period and did not want to have roaming on my
       | Australian phone.
       | 
       | So for my own notes, removing a phone number from my Google
       | account before travel will risk account suspension. Hope OP
       | resolves it, but also need to make sure this never happens to me.
        
       | r_lee wrote:
       | this is actually scary as fuck
       | 
       | I thought with Workspace you'd actually be spared from this kind
       | of BS
       | 
       | I guess not?
        
         | Lihh27 wrote:
         | you're paying for the privilege of getting locked out by the
         | same algorithm that locks out free accounts. the only
         | difference is you get an invoice.
        
       | andrewjneumann wrote:
       | If you're operating Google workspace without a well oiled
       | Enterprise behind the scenes, a single admin account is a single
       | point of failure.
       | 
       | I had this happen a couple years ago when I was migrating to a
       | different domain. The only difference was all of the
       | authentication that I supplied Google said was an adequate and I
       | got into some sort of a login loop where Authenticator, SMS, DNS
       | record nor pass key would provide enough authentication for me to
       | get in.
       | 
       | I got the automated got bought to finally send me the mythical
       | form, after completing that I was told that they were unable to
       | authenticate me further. I ended up emailing their support
       | multiple times and threatening lawsuits multiple times when I got
       | a magic call from a human at Google. They also sent me the link
       | that put me into a login loop however after chatting with them
       | for nearly an hour I got a different magic login link form which
       | appeared to work.
        
       | jimbocyou wrote:
       | OP triggered every possible red flags for suspicious account
       | takeover in Google systems: deleting his recovery phone number,
       | moving to another country and cellular provider. And then he gets
       | surprised that the account is in 30 day cool down period??? I
       | don't understand people sometimes.
        
         | Hackbraten wrote:
         | They didn't willfully delete their recovery phone number. They
         | tried to delete a shitty, known-broken 2FA mechanism after they
         | had set up passkeys. Poor UX conflated the two things, so their
         | recovery phone number ended up being deleted. This is 100% on
         | Google.
         | 
         | Why the fuck would Google care in which country I live? It's a
         | personal decision, and no corporation should have any say in
         | this. They certainly don't have to flag an account for that,
         | especially not if the account has 2FA enabled. This is on
         | Google, too.
         | 
         | Your comment is victim blaming.
        
           | jimbocyou wrote:
           | The problem is the rapid succession of changes to recovery
           | phone number, country, cellular provider. There is no way to
           | differentiate, at scale, between an account takeover
           | currently in progress that needs to be stopped immediately to
           | minimize damage, and a legit user deciding to change all his
           | personal info at once.
           | 
           | 30 day cool down period is a reasonable response, at scale.
        
             | Hackbraten wrote:
             | > The problem is the rapid succession of changes to
             | recovery phone number, country, cellular provider.
             | 
             | Aren't cellular providers inherently tied to the country
             | they're in?
             | 
             | How do you move to another country without changing
             | cellular providers at the same time?
        
               | jimbocyou wrote:
               | Of course you can keep your provider. It's called
               | roaming, per OP story: "I am travelling to the UK and did
               | not want to have *roaming* on my Australian phone."
               | 
               | For cheaper rates than roaming, typically you install a
               | secondary eSIM for the country you're traveling. 99%
               | modern phones support dual SIM for this reason
        
               | sfmike wrote:
               | you keep the old number forever and when travelling get a
               | data sim only
        
         | zenincognito wrote:
         | Have backup codes, Passkey, access to the said number, same
         | laptop logged in, phone logged in, recovery email address
         | access and nothing works...
        
       | hayatofujihara wrote:
       | Tough situation. A good reminder to set up a backup recovery
       | method before removing the existing one, especially when
       | traveling.
        
       | e40 wrote:
       | This is why I do full Google Takeout every 2 months and have my
       | own domain with Workspace. I don't rely on cloud file storage.
       | The calendar is important, but I could switch easily.
       | 
       | IMO, the worst part of this is Workspace support is immune to ANY
       | explanation. I mean, credit card companies are well used to "is
       | this your transaction?" emails.
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | It's been [0] days since the last "Cloud provider banned me and I
       | lost everything" article.
       | 
       | Everyone who depends on the good graces of a cloud provider for
       | something (not just Google, but Amazon, Microsoft, Apple,
       | whatever) needs to at the very least, take a moment, and figure
       | out what their plan is when they are suddenly banned and locked
       | out permanently, without any way to contact the company.
       | 
       | Does life just go on, since you don't have anything important
       | hosted there? (Best Case)
       | 
       | Do you lose some precious family photos and use it as a tough
       | learning opportunity to stop doing what you're doing? (Next best)
       | 
       | Do you lose access to your E-mail and are suddenly not able to do
       | 2FA, reset passwords, communicate with the company or the
       | Internet in any way, and so on, and now have to panic?
       | 
       | Do you complain online, hoping that someone in the company sees
       | your post and has the ability to restore your account, which you
       | then continue to use because you learned nothing?
       | 
       | Having an online account suddenly suspended is a real, non-zero,
       | but unlikely risk. You should at least have a disaster plan if
       | you rely on these things for anything important. Or better yet,
       | stop relying on them for important things like your identity or
       | precious files!
        
         | chromacity wrote:
         | > Everyone who depends on the good graces of a cloud provider
         | for something (not just Google, but Amazon, Microsoft, Apple,
         | whatever) needs to at the very least, take a moment, and figure
         | out what their plan is when they are suddenly banned and locked
         | out permanently, without any way to contact the company.
         | 
         | This is one of the most common sentiments I hear expressed on
         | HN, next only to "if you're not building your software business
         | around Claude Code, you're gonna left behind".
        
         | mppm wrote:
         | "A guy on HN told me one time, 'Don't let yourself get attached
         | to any cloud services you are not willing to walk out on in 30
         | seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.'" --
         | Robert de Niro
        
           | supliminal wrote:
           | To me, the action is the juice.
        
         | DaedalusII wrote:
         | google is worst because normal people with no tech experience
         | can accidentally get banned from the only email account they
         | ever had since 2005 which has all their insurance tax resumes
         | family photo etc , never even understand how it happened , or
         | fix it
        
           | tsoukase wrote:
           | I'm one such person among the billions worldwide, that is a
           | minority on this forum.
        
         | calvinmorrison wrote:
         | > It's been [0] days since the "business I contract with to
         | provide services locked me out of the building we rent, ghosted
         | me, and threw all my shit out" article.
         | 
         | We really need to just fix the laws.
        
           | quadrifoliate wrote:
           | > We really need to just fix the laws.
           | 
           | This. There are something like 150 million Americans with a
           | Google account, and these days it is more important than a
           | phone number to have a working email.
           | 
           | Email is a utility. Email companies should be heavily
           | regulated and controlled like phone or other utility
           | companies.
        
             | calvinmorrison wrote:
             | I don't know if I agree it should be regulated like a
             | utility, however I believe contracts and suspensions should
             | require more work than a click of a button.
        
               | thephyber wrote:
               | The ease of suspend isn't the problem here. It's that
               | there is functionally no recourse once the suspension
               | happens, justified or not.
               | 
               | The only people who seem to get un-suspended are the ones
               | who can generate news media outrage or who can call their
               | friend who is a director/exec at the company. (Obviously
               | this intuition is flawed, but it's hurting the
               | reputations of these SaaS providers.)
        
       | 827a wrote:
       | Google's customer support is interesting. Its definitely a case
       | where you'll sometimes hit pockets of the company where clearly
       | there was someone who made it their life's work to fix this bad
       | reputation they have; while other pockets make it clear that they
       | deserve the reputation.
       | 
       | I had a Nest subscription that became a total mess. If you've
       | ever tried to use Nest before, or are coming from a legacy Nest
       | account, and/or also have a Workspace account that somehow got
       | wrapped up in the mess, you'll understand how much of a clusterf
       | Nest is for the Google ecosystem. I had signed up for this
       | subscription on a personal Google account, cancelled it, but was
       | still being charged for it, and the credit card being used made
       | me think it was getting charged on my Google Workspace account
       | (which isn't officially supported, and would never let you sign
       | up for it, but DID share an email address with my legacy Nest
       | account I had migrated into the non-Workspace personal account I
       | was using for Nest).
       | 
       | They had to escalate the problem a couple times, which took ~24
       | hours. Once that happened, their rep had it resolved in minutes,
       | and refunded me two months on the subscription.
       | 
       | The biggest piece of advice I can give when dealing with Google
       | is: Never be weird. You cannot ever put yourself in a situation
       | where your account isn't like the other billion accounts they
       | have. If you do, something will go wrong and its rolling the dice
       | on whether you'll ever reach someone who can help you. If you've
       | used Google enough, you know: Their multifactor settings are
       | _weird_. You cannot set it up exactly how you want; it 'll always
       | trigger some auth method you didn't configure but they have
       | "LATENT KNOWLEDGE" you should be able to authenticate with, like
       | a phone number you configured six years ago, or gmail installed
       | on a tablet that's 400 miles away, and you can't turn it off,
       | even on Workspace.
       | 
       | My favorite bit of Googleism: Go to any site you sign in with
       | Google SSO and watch the URLs in the eight redirects it has to do
       | before it signs you in. You'll see a "youtube.com" in there. Even
       | on a Workspace account. Youtube.com is a load-bearing website in
       | their core auth flows.
       | 
       | Mess of a company. I hope they invest some effort in improving
       | things, but I was saying the same thing in 2018. They probably
       | won't.
        
         | nullc wrote:
         | > like a phone number you configured six years ago
         | 
         | I've put in a heroic effort to make sure they never get a phone
         | number, specifically so they can't start handing my account
         | over to the first clown who simswaps me, and have been
         | successful. Unfortunately, this makes my account weird, which
         | as you noted is fatal.
        
         | Ferret7446 wrote:
         | > My favorite bit of Googleism: Go to any site you sign in with
         | Google SSO and watch the URLs in the eight redirects it has to
         | do before it signs you in. You'll see a "youtube.com" in there.
         | Even on a Workspace account. Youtube.com is a load-bearing
         | website in their core auth flows.
         | 
         | I assume that's just because they need to set a cookie on the
         | YouTube domain in case you visit YouTube later on the workspace
         | account, and not "load bearing"in the manner you insinuate
        
           | 827a wrote:
           | If the youtube.com 302 failed to itself 302 back to the next
           | destination; because the site is down; would that not be load
           | bearing?
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | If you wanted to intentionally trigger every account abuse system
       | at Google, follow this guy's script.
        
         | sfmike wrote:
         | people who travel shouldn't trigger account abuse
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Changing your account recovery and 2FA settings then
           | immediately trying to recover your account from an unusual
           | country should temporarily lock out your account, every time,
           | and this is what all normal users want.
        
       | Arcuru wrote:
       | If a service offers "Login with Google/Apple/Facebook/etc" you
       | should never do that if they offer a username/password. It just
       | increases the single point of failure. Avoid places that only
       | offer the "Login with Foo" if at all possible (looking at you
       | Tailscale).
       | 
       | As an ex-googler, the only reason I was comfortable keeping even
       | my personal email there was because I could reach out internally
       | if there was a problem. I left Google, and left gmail behind too.
        
         | gib444 wrote:
         | > Avoid places that only offer the "Login with Foo" if at all
         | possible (looking at you Tailscale).
         | 
         | Tailscale is the only serious company that I can ever recall
         | offering /only/ third party login. It's bit bizarre on the face
         | of it. Anyone know the reason?
        
           | drcongo wrote:
           | Curious isn't it, especially as it's such a bad fit for their
           | product - authenticating with GitHub in order to ssh made the
           | whole thing so much more painful than it needed to be. I
           | subsequently tried switching to using a passkey when that
           | became an option, but it's not possible to make the passkey
           | user the owner of a tailnet created by a GitHub org user, so
           | I'm stuck with two users in my Tailscale and can't delete the
           | GitHub org user. It's the main thing that keeps me looking
           | for a reliable alternative to Tailscale.
        
             | mkl wrote:
             | ZeroTier. It works well for me. I chose it over Tailscale
             | because it doesn't require a third party for login.
        
           | ratorx wrote:
           | I think I read somewhere (but could be wrong) that it was
           | because they didn't want to own any "authentication"
           | services. Their infrastructure was zero trust (as in they
           | don't hold any passwords or private keys), just a discovery
           | server for different devices.
        
           | FireBeyond wrote:
           | My other annoyance lately is companies that don't let you set
           | a password. It's either passkey only (which I'm not sold on,
           | yet), or "we'll email you a login link". Great, now I have to
           | wait for the email to show up, click the link, hope it
           | doesn't expire if I get distracted while waiting, and then
           | also delete your emails, sometimes multiple times a day?
           | 
           | What a shit tier authentication mechanism.
        
             | drcongo wrote:
             | I despise this. Slack keeps doing this even though I _have_
             | a password and 2FA configured.
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | Vercel won't even let you set a password.
               | 
               | "Sign-in methods: Email, passkey, Google account, Apple
               | account, GitHub, GitLab, Bitbucket".
        
           | Kwpolska wrote:
           | Perhaps they are not a serious company after all?
        
           | antonvs wrote:
           | Is Tailscale really a serious company?
        
           | huslage wrote:
           | I use my own OIDC connection to Tailscale. I don't use a
           | third party for login. It's not hard to set up.
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | Tailscale offers custom SSO for free
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Shouldn't a service that may be the only way of remotely
           | accessing your devices be ... independent of a 3rd party
           | authentication service?
        
             | zrail wrote:
             | Passkey auth is also available as a first-class option.
        
         | shakna wrote:
         | One of the other articles on HN's front page right now, is that
         | Germany's implementation of eIDAS will require a Google or
         | Apple account.
        
           | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
           | I genuinely feel like there is something happening where
           | hackernews articles come in bunch/reference-to-each-other :]
           | 
           | So one of the comments on one hackernews post on front-page
           | almost somehow always refer to something within a hackernews
           | post on the same front-page. I have seen this witnessed too
           | many times that it might be time to name this phenomenon.
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | We offer Login with Google and Login with Facebook on our apps.
         | The fun part is both FB and Google started blocking Selenium
         | and any other automated agents from logging in. So basically
         | there's no way to run end to end tests that confirm the login
         | flows using FB or Google, which have wrinkles that our normal
         | login doesn't hit.
        
           | drnick1 wrote:
           | > We offer Login with Google and Login with Facebook on our
           | apps.
           | 
           | This has the nefarious side effect of allowing Google or
           | Facebook to track people across the Internet and apps.
           | Webmasters like you are, often for no imperative reason,
           | complicit of this by providing such login options.
        
             | thephyber wrote:
             | "For no imperative reason"
             | 
             | App developers have repeatedly stated that offering those
             | options increases user account creation. There is lower
             | friction to using "login with <big tech>" than to create
             | username/password creation flow. My guess is that most of
             | the world hasn't figured out a password manager workflow
             | that works for them (or they aren't willing to pay for it).
        
             | glenpierce wrote:
             | This is an issue that regulators need to address. Asking
             | small businesses to forego the significant impact on their
             | business of not implementing common features that users
             | demand is not a good solution to public policy failures.
             | 
             | I don't know what the exact revenue/growth difference is,
             | but if my paycheque depended upon getting more users to
             | sign up, I don't think I could justify making it into a
             | political stance when Google isn't going to notice my tiny
             | boycott.
        
       | lukeschlather wrote:
       | > On Saturday, April 4, at 5:06 AM, I received a notification
       | saying my authenticator had been removed. It hadn't. The
       | authenticator was still active on my phone - it was the recovery
       | phone I had removed. Google apparently conflated the two.
       | 
       | This is a massive bug here. I was also surprised recently that
       | Google won't let you enroll multiple Authenticators. If we had
       | functional security regulations I think there would be some
       | pretty large fines for Google's error here.
        
       | caerwy wrote:
       | These kind of stories led me to explore de-googling my digital
       | life. And honestly its been a fun journey and given meaning and
       | purpose to my homelab. 100% recommend. Own your digital life, run
       | local, reclaim the web.
        
       | CrzyLngPwd wrote:
       | Thanks for the great reminder to detangle myself from Google.
        
       | Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
       | I discovered this same issue, you are required to have a phone
       | their auth system is bugged me.
       | 
       | I just set up google workspace and I didn't have recovery phone
       | or anything,just password and recovery email. I didn't login for
       | 1 week (life stuff). When I came back it allowed me to login but
       | didn't allow any admin stuff saying it didn't recognize me and
       | that I must use a known browser.
       | 
       | Well, that was the only browser I logged in with.
       | 
       | The solution was a weird thing where I was able to add phone
       | recovery and authenticator, but then had to wait 2 weeks
       | (couldn't use it). After that I performed authentication as
       | usual.
       | 
       | It's horrible.
        
       | finaard wrote:
       | It's quite entertaining to read - most of the article is pretty
       | much elaborating a chain of bad decisions by the author which all
       | lead to this now being a big problem. If he'd have written a
       | similar dependency tree earlier and just thought about it for a
       | few minutes that should've been avoidable.
       | 
       | > Update 1 - I know I can simply change the MX record to someone
       | else but It has its own challenges.
       | 
       | I don't quite get that attitude. He's describing that he needs
       | his business emails. Not just getting a mail server back online
       | for that, even as interim solution, points to the opposite. In
       | the time it takes for MX TTL to expire he could easily just throw
       | up a postfix+dovecot on some VPS, with enough time to spare to
       | add something like sogo if he feels fancy.
        
         | bartvk wrote:
         | That's what I didn't get either. And you don't even need to
         | configure a VPS, there's Fastmail, Protonmail, Zoho, Kolabnow,
         | Purely mail, Migadu and so much more.
        
         | jzl wrote:
         | Why victim blame him for removing the phone number? He had a
         | logical reason for doing so, and with Google supporting many
         | forms of authentication it's perfectly reasonable to think that
         | removing one wouldn't jeopardize the other methods.
        
         | matt_heimer wrote:
         | I was a bit worried when I saw the title of the article because
         | I have one of these accounts but geez he made some bad choices.
         | Deleting all phone numbers and the recovery and swapping to a
         | new authentication method and then accessing from a different
         | country??? No wonder it got flagged.
         | 
         | I probably wouldn't believe him either. Google should have an
         | option to revert to the last trusted config after some
         | verification method. Google support is bad, I'll give him that.
         | 
         | All this to avoid roaming charges? And then refusing to share a
         | personal email in this scenario and missing meetings because of
         | that.
         | 
         | I'd argue that changing the MX to fastmail or Microsoft would
         | be much faster than a postfix+dovecot solution on a VPS but I
         | think he's just refusing any solution based on his principals.
        
       | bradley13 wrote:
       | With phone numbers, you can move from one carrier to another,
       | while retaining your number. This helps with competition.
       | 
       | We need the same for email.
       | 
       | Sure, it may not work with the ancillary services, but keeping
       | your email address would solve a lot of issues.
        
         | phpnode wrote:
         | I mean, you can do that already, you use your own domain name
         | and can then change email providers at will, in theory.
         | 
         | But maybe you logged in to your domain registrar through google
         | oauth. If your google account is locked you can't now get into
         | your domain's settings to change your MX records.
         | 
         | The real problem isn't the email address itself, it's all the
         | access that google owns on your behalf. Lose access to Google,
         | lose access to everything.
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | Just had to fix an AWS account lock out this morning. Why?
       | Despite having a $0 balance and payment info on file, until I set
       | a budget (a new feature per their UI), all of my Cloudfront-
       | hosted files were just unavailable on my business' site (I
       | Cloudfront all static assets so all images, fonts, etc were just
       | broken all of a sudden).
       | 
       | These are the limits of scale. Too big, too complex, and not
       | enough skilled people to maintain and/or support it. And our
       | hubris as humans prevents us from accepting it. Why? Why can't we
       | accept smaller but more functional things/systems?
       | 
       | We don't have to live like this.
        
       | deepsun wrote:
       | I tried to read it assuming the blog post author is a hacker. The
       | hacker could have stolen an OTP device with DNS access, but
       | couldn't steal for the phone number (so they removed it, there
       | was no explanation why phone number is removed). And honestly,
       | how else could they prove they are legit? What if they really are
       | a hacker?
       | 
       | It would be cool if Google (and other media giants, especially
       | IdP ones) had an office where you could bring your passport and
       | verify it's you. I don't think there is.
        
         | alwa wrote:
         | I'd hate for the "government-name" verification to become a
         | _requirement_ , but I've long wished services would at least
         | offer that as an optional add-on. For certain important
         | accounts, I'd be eager to place my government identity on file
         | with the company ahead of time.
         | 
         | The Americans have done something kind of interesting along
         | those lines, as far as an in-person IDV option to establish
         | e-government accounts [0]. You start account setup online, then
         | take a barcode to a post office along with your identity
         | documents.
         | 
         | I have to imagine it's hard to make a commercial case for such
         | a system, though... especially these days with so much momentum
         | toward the approach I resent--that is, requiring ID checks just
         | to be online in the first place.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.login.gov/help/verify-your-identity/verify-
         | your-...
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | Now try and read it assuming that instead of a screw up, this
         | user was actually hacked. How do they recover?
         | 
         | Honestly, if you are using Gmail as your primary email I could
         | probably ruin your entire year. I could just try and hack you
         | (not even successfully) and Google will just shut down your
         | entire life rather than attempt to work out who's right.
        
           | gck1 wrote:
           | > I could just try and hack you (not even successfully) and
           | Google will just shut down your entire life rather than
           | attempt to work out who's right.
           | 
           | Had this happen to me. Fortunately the 'attacker' wasn't
           | actually trying to do this, so damage was limited, but it's
           | chilling when you think about what some motivated script
           | kiddy can do with your Google account just by requesting
           | password resets.
        
       | LoganDark wrote:
       | I failed the Apple Developer ID verification four times due to
       | technical issues and now my account is ineligible to become a
       | developer.
       | 
       | Forever.
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | Run your own email server, and give Google the middle finger.
       | Letting Google own your email, and freely spy on your
       | communications is insane. I think this incident clearly
       | demonstrates that you cannot leave critical infrastructure like
       | this in the hands of a third party.
        
       | zenincognito wrote:
       | Update: A kind stranger from Google reached out and this is now
       | resolved. Thank you HN for helping me through this.
        
         | entrox wrote:
         | It is quite frankly ridiculous that you need to be in the "in-
         | group" to get things like this resolved and it is not the first
         | time this has been reported, be it Google or Meta or any other
         | big tech corpo.
         | 
         | These players MUST be regulated or treated like utilities;
         | hoping the EU will ratchet up the pressure even more.
        
       | storus wrote:
       | I keep paying ElevenLabs for 3 years after some early AI agent
       | project where I used it as my payment data is bound to a google
       | account associated with a phone number that expired in the
       | meantime. I thought adding the google authenticator to the
       | account and switching to it as a secondary authentication method
       | from the phone number would allow me to cancel the subscription,
       | but for some reason Google insists I verify using the expired
       | phone number...
        
       | tsoukase wrote:
       | The full text of Google's slogan is: Don't be evil (to customers
       | that click ads from which our largest income share comes but not
       | to developers who in the future might be our competitors).
       | 
       | It's just too long to fit on a T-shirt but not to memorise.
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | > 3) Removed recovery phone
       | 
       | Never put your phone in there in the first place. You can
       | actually skip that step.
        
       | kkfx wrote:
       | It's simply about time to own your digital life instead of being
       | slave of someone else.
        
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       (page generated 2026-04-05 23:01 UTC)