[HN Gopher] Oracle Files H-1B Visa Petitions Amid Mass Layoffs
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Oracle Files H-1B Visa Petitions Amid Mass Layoffs
        
       Author : kklisura
       Score  : 258 points
       Date   : 2026-04-03 20:21 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nationaltoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nationaltoday.com)
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | I personally think that doing a layoff of more than 2% of your
       | workforce or 1000 people, whichever is high, should restrict you
       | from filing for a work visa for a period of 3 years.
       | 
       | Or you can buy your way out of that restriction by paying each
       | laid off worker 3 years of wages.
       | 
       | Pick one.
        
       | pm90 wrote:
       | Oracle is a large company. Many of those laid off were outside
       | the US. This is a non-story.
        
         | OrvalWintermute wrote:
         | Not sure this is truly the "Oracle VP of Workforce Economics"
         | posting on X, but it makes a good thread:
         | 
         | https://x.com/gothburz/status/2040142920674656482?s=46
        
       | jrkfofjw wrote:
       | Don't worry, Trump is in Ellison's pocket so this will go
       | through.
        
       | OrvalWintermute wrote:
       | H1B is generally a giant scam of Labor Arbitrage
        
       | cmiles8 wrote:
       | I would expect further H1B crackdowns coming. The $100k fee was
       | just the start.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Good. Call your reps and ask for more action.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | I would absolutely not expect this, especially as long as
         | Oracle and all the other technofeudalists are properly paying
         | their taxes to the count and king.
        
           | moshegramovsky wrote:
           | By taxes, do you mean buying Trump's crypto?
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | I disagree, I think the $100k fee was a deliberate move to make
         | sure the yearly allocation is only available to large companies
         | like Oracle and out of reach of smaller startups.
         | 
         | Despite the rhetoric the administration is very friendly to big
         | business and will absolutely help them hire cheaply. Larry
         | Ellison especially.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | Isn't Larry friends with the administration?
        
         | qwertyuiop_ wrote:
         | USCIS says they competed the 2027 quota. Is there any evidence
         | all enrolled paid $100k this year ?
        
           | trollbridge wrote:
           | I would assume many were change-of-status from F-1 / OPT etc.
        
             | QGQBGdeZREunxLe wrote:
             | The giant gaping loophole they left in place. Renewals and
             | COS (change of status) does not incur the $100k fee.
        
               | cute_boi wrote:
               | Then the H-1B wouldn't make sense. Many holders would
               | have to transfer from one company to another, and if
               | there is a $100,000 requirement, it would just lead to
               | exploitation.
               | 
               | The better solution is just stop H1B lottery from next
               | year.
        
         | Dig1t wrote:
         | Sadly I think you're wrong on this one. Trump's donors benefit
         | from H1B cheap labor. Musk, Elison, etc contributed large sums
         | to Trump's campaign. Just look at Musk's "fuck your own face"
         | tweets from Dec 2024 and you'll see how the people with power
         | feel about this issue. As usual the middle class is being
         | squeezed by the oligarchy.
         | 
         | The 100k fee basically does nothing to curb H1B cheap labor.
         | It's a one-time fee, and when you realize that H1B's can't
         | easily leave their job, it's a fee that easily pays for itself.
         | H1B's are paid less for the same job (just google "are H1B's
         | paid less"), and since they can't easily leave, the reduced
         | turnover saves them money as well. If you think that an
         | employee is likely to stay for 4 years, that's only 25k per
         | year and the fact that they are paid about 15%-20% less than an
         | American, the equation still easily comes out in favor of
         | importing the cheap labor.
         | 
         | It was a move crafted to look like it was cracking down on
         | abuse, but not actually cause any real pain to the companies
         | abusing the system. Hence why all these mega corps are still
         | filing for H1B's even while laying off their American citizen
         | workers.
        
       | slau wrote:
       | I hate Oracle as much as the next guy, but this seems like a
       | nothingburger.
       | 
       | Oracle didn't file "thousands of H1Bs". Oracle filed 2690
       | applications in FY2025 (Oct-Sep), and so far filed 436 in FY2026,
       | according to the article.
       | 
       | If anything, this would indicate that Oracle slowed down on
       | hiring foreign workforce. Oct-Mar is half of Oracle's fiscal
       | year, but they only filed 16% of the H1B applications as in 2025?
       | That seems in line with a hiring freeze and subsequent layoff.
        
       | rdtsc wrote:
       | Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small
       | towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all
       | written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell
       | used bikes, car parts and other stuff.
       | 
       | - "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered
       | our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there
       | is no other way"
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44880832
         | 
         | https://www.jobs.now/
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321
        
           | rdtsc wrote:
           | I remember seeing it on HN but didn't know if would still be
           | up. Glad it's still going. Thanks!
        
         | pj_mukh wrote:
         | Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of
         | Oracle layoffs were _in India_ [1]. In comparison, they 've
         | barely fired any American workers.
         | 
         | Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable
         | and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people
         | qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization
         | required.
         | 
         | America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American
         | workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and
         | frequently enforced[3].
         | 
         | This is such a deep distraction but a virulent virus of a
         | narrative, surgically designed to needle our reptilian minds.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.goodreturns.in/news/tech-layoffs-2025-oracle-
         | cut...
         | 
         | [2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269959/employment-in-
         | the...
         | 
         | [3]: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2,
         | https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2
        
           | saulpw wrote:
           | From your first link, it says 10% of 28k employees in India
           | were cut. I personally know several people who were laid off
           | from Oracle this week (OCI). One person who's still there
           | described it as a "bloodbath across our division" and says he
           | counted 15k. I don't know what exactly he was counting but as
           | we're in North America I am assuming they're all here.
           | Whereas India layoffs were fewer than 3k. So that directly
           | disputes your statement that "they've barely fired any
           | American workers".
        
             | pj_mukh wrote:
             | Yes 15k is the global number including massive
             | international call centers all becoming obsolete.
             | 
             | This is what a generational specialization swap out looks
             | like.
             | 
             | Oracle is hiring as many people in America as H1B filings
             | this year [1] (though most H1B filings will fail, something
             | the article conveniently leaves out) this is literally the
             | pie growing from all sides but just becoming a blueberry AI
             | pie from an apple pie
             | 
             | [1] https://careers.oracle.com/en/sites/jobsearch/jobs?loca
             | tion=...
        
           | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
           | << HN should know this
           | 
           | HN does know. Some of us question whether brave and
           | courageous leadership knows.
        
           | pnw wrote:
           | Oracle laid off 491 people in Seattle this week.
        
           | Noumenon72 wrote:
           | Your [3] shows that the government enforces paying H1-Bs
           | competitive salaries, not that it cares about the Americans
           | they replaced.
        
           | starik36 wrote:
           | > America is at near full employment
           | 
           | Then why does it take months and months for even experienced
           | devs to land a job?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | > America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American
           | workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal
           | and frequently enforced[3].
           | 
           |  _Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US
           | citizens_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223719 -
           | September 2025 (526 comments)
           | 
           |  _Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans
           | Can Apply_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321 -
           | August 2025 (108 comments)
           | 
           |  _H-1B Middlemen Bring Cheap Labor to Citi, Capital One_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44398978 - June 2025 (4
           | comments)
           | 
           |  _Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42385000 - December 2024
           | (65 comments)
           | 
           |  _How middlemen are gaming the H-1B program_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41123945 - July 2024 (57
           | comments)
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42454509 (additional
           | citations)
        
             | pj_mukh wrote:
             | All these articles talk about how the justice department
             | has a fantastic hit rate in suing these companies to
             | kingdom come. _Good_. The law is working as intended. That
             | is my point.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think
               | the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the
               | domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer
               | "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with
               | reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the
               | salaries paid, which is public data.
               | 
               | As I've commented previously:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am
               | calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker
               | visas based on the current economic macro and existing
               | immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from,
               | yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity.
               | The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick
               | from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences."
               | 
               | The US has an obligation to its citizens, not
               | corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or
               | desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the
               | top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any
               | argument about prosperity impairment from impaired
               | immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this
               | context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I
               | can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this
               | sentiment (considering the current macro and
               | affordability crisis in the US).
        
               | Avicebron wrote:
               | > The US has an obligation to its citizens
               | 
               | In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing
               | thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end
               | up leaving seems borderline seditious.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | Just for reference, if you're in tech and a senior even
               | in a 2nd tier city, you're probably not "the little guy",
               | you're probably in the top 10% if you make more than
               | around $160K
               | 
               | https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | I have personally been in the room when illegal labor
               | decisions were made around H-1B hiring and immigration
               | law, which I reported to USCIS. But that doesn't scale
               | unless you can get into more places where these decisions
               | are made. So, when all you have is a hammer, you have to
               | hit whatever is within reach of the target outcome.
               | 
               | > you're probably not "the little guy", you're probably
               | in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K
               | 
               | I am closer to a blue collar worker than a CEO or other
               | very wealthy/empowered person driving these anti labor
               | decisions, so your argument is not compelling, I know who
               | these people are behind closed doors. It's always about
               | some combination of wealth, profit, status, power, and/or
               | control.
        
               | socialcommenter wrote:
               | > Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who
               | own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity
               | impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on
               | deaf ears in this context.
               | 
               | "We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the
               | proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't
               | benefit the general populace".
               | 
               | I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this
               | seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be
               | fair)
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | > it's pragmatic, to be fair
               | 
               | Highest praise. This is what I optimize for in a dynamic,
               | imperfect, and more often than not, unjust world. Move
               | fast, break systems.
        
           | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
           | It is not illegal to lay off Americans and expand offices
           | overseas. I'm not saying that's what Oracle is doing.
        
           | luckydata wrote:
           | If America is at near full employment why don't I have a job
           | after looking for 6 months. This is a load of nonsense.
        
             | xboxnolifes wrote:
             | Because the employment is full, sorry, no more jobs
             | available /s.
             | 
             | (Im in the same boat, but much longer than 6 months)
        
             | 999900000999 wrote:
             | Have you been down to Amazon. Not Amazon corporate, Amazon
             | Warehouse or Amazon flex delivery.
             | 
             | With the gig economy as long as you can make 50$ a day via
             | Uber Eats , you might be considered "employed".
             | 
             | For the days I need to be in the office, my commute is well
             | over 2 hours each way. Pay cuts, horrible commutes.
        
           | darth_avocado wrote:
           | Also to cut through the headlines once again. What the
           | article actually says:
           | 
           | > Federal data shows Oracle filed for 2,690 H-1B visas in
           | fiscal year 2025 and 436 so far in fiscal year 2026, totaling
           | over 3,100 visa requests.
           | 
           | There is no proof that these people were also not part of the
           | layoffs. Typically in layoffs, until the day off the
           | announcement, it's just business as usual. Which means people
           | keep getting hired and H1B petitions being filed. The article
           | doesn't say they filed these petitions AFTER the layoffs.
        
           | MSM wrote:
           | Either I'm stupid or [2] doesn't actually say anything at
           | all. It starts with "in 2025..." And later talks about how
           | estimates are expected to rise in 2023 and beyond while
           | referencing data that ended in _1988_. What am I missing?
           | 
           | "In 2025, it was estimated that over 163 million Americans
           | were in some form of employment, while 4.16 percent of the
           | total workforce was unemployed. This was the lowest
           | unemployment rate since the 1950s, although these figures are
           | expected to rise in 2023 and beyond."
        
             | janalsncm wrote:
             | Unemployment rate is tricky because there's a lot of
             | related statuses a person could have. So the Fed has 7
             | different rates U1 through U7.
             | 
             | Here is U6 which is a better reflection imo:
             | 
             | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
        
           | janalsncm wrote:
           | > America is at near full employment
           | 
           | Pretty sure that is the U3 rate which only counts people as
           | unemployed if they are actively looking for a job. The U6 is
           | better and rarely falls below 5%:
           | 
           | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
        
           | cineticdaffodil wrote:
           | How does indian software indus try handle the llm wave?
        
         | ergocoder wrote:
         | Stanford also filed an H1B this year to hire an IT person.
         | 
         | https://x.com/chrisbrunet/status/2037376353461567734
         | 
         | Apparently, no citizen wants to do this job? Why do we allow
         | things like this?
        
           | andriy_koval wrote:
           | "we" don't allow, but also don't enforce (violators are
           | rarely punished).
        
             | ergocoder wrote:
             | I feel like this is legal i.e. we allow it.
             | 
             | Stanford wouldn't blatantly violate laws like this.
        
               | andriy_koval wrote:
               | it could be not blatant violation, but they more like
               | don't track this on their side because don't think it is
               | a big deal, so some individual can act like that.
               | 
               | Blatant violation would be if they do it on many cases
               | and large scale.
        
           | jltsiren wrote:
           | Without knowing anything about that particular case, I would
           | assume that the person was initially hired as an F-1 student
           | and later changed to OPT status. University IT tends to hire
           | students to entry-level positions all around the world. And
           | now Stanford wants to keep the proven employee instead of
           | going through the uncertainty of hiring a new person.
           | 
           | So maybe the actual question is what kind of a Stanford
           | undergraduate would choose a university IT position in ~2021
           | instead of aiming for more lucrative tech roles. Perhaps the
           | kind that wants to maximize their chances of getting H-1B.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | They have many departments, and are probably reducing some of
       | them while increasing the workforce in others. The idea that they
       | hire 'those damn foreigners' to push down wages is probably true
       | to some degree, but not the whole story. I also don't believe the
       | majority of these H1B are directly hired in other countries for
       | which there is now a $100k fee, but rather people who studied in
       | the US under F1 visa who are exempt from this rule.
        
         | calculatte wrote:
         | What magical skills do the "damn foreigners" have that none of
         | those 30,000 laid off employees don't have? What was the intent
         | of the H1B? To find skills that don't exist in this country.
         | What is H1B actually used for? Labor arbitrage, nepotism,
         | kickbacks. There's really no excuse for defending it anymore.
        
           | moshegramovsky wrote:
           | H-1B exists to make unfathomably rich corporations and people
           | even more unfathomably rich. That's the only reason. That's
           | why we don't have single payer. How can corporations function
           | if employees don't equate job loss with total economic and
           | social ruin?
        
             | motbus3 wrote:
             | Not necessarily. Many of the technological revolution
             | started with refugees and immigrants before, during and
             | after ww2. And technically you should even count the NZ
             | that were brought to create the rocket programs
             | 
             | Anyway, I feel that you need read this guy comment
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
        
               | moshegramovsky wrote:
               | I appreciate the information. However, labor Arbitrage
               | affects millions of American workers. It probably affects
               | tens of millions. I just cannot fathom that companies
               | today have any positive ethical reasons for wanting to
               | participate. It gives them another stick to use against
               | both groups of workers. Also, H-1B was started in 1990,
               | so well after World War II.
        
       | simianwords wrote:
       | This whole H1B debacle tells me that people don't like it when
       | employees are not fungible but this sentiment only exists
       | selectively.
       | 
       | The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job
       | before submitting the petition. How does this work if the
       | employee is not fungible?
        
         | some_random wrote:
         | You advertise in small circulation newspapers, I thought this
         | was well known.
        
           | RachelF wrote:
           | Another trick I've seen on LinkedIn is job applications open
           | from 12:00 am to 12:01 am.
           | 
           | The employer can legally say they advertized the job and had
           | no applicants and need an H1B employee.
        
         | cyberax wrote:
         | > The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job
         | before submitting the petition.
         | 
         | You're confusing things. I-140 is a green card application, not
         | H1B.
         | 
         | H1B petition requires the I-129 form and an LCA from the DoL.
         | No advertisement is required, except posting the LCAs in a
         | conspicuous place in the company office.
        
       | timedude wrote:
       | Turns out it was true all the layoffs were because of AI (actual
       | indians).
        
       | mikert89 wrote:
       | Where did my standard of living go? Couldnt possibly have to do
       | with imported labor working around the clock under the threat of
       | being kicked out of the country
        
         | maest wrote:
         | Cheap labour producing goods for the native population at low
         | costs should increase your standard of living, no? It makes the
         | products you buy cheaper.
         | 
         | By your logic, if you were the only person in the country,
         | you'd live like a king.
        
           | toasty228 wrote:
           | That's way too naive, prices never go down, the owner pockets
           | the difference, you pay the same, and once they come to your
           | industry you have more competition
        
           | sapphicsnail wrote:
           | Companies are importing labor so they can avoid pay
           | competitive wages to native workers. If you need to hire
           | people from other countries they should have the same pay and
           | protections as everyone else.
        
           | skippyboxedhero wrote:
           | By your logic, slavery was one of the finest economic
           | policies. Cheap labour, how about free labour? Have we
           | thought of that? Everything would just be free.
           | 
           | In the real world, the evidence is obvious: average
           | productivity/wages drop, incentive to invest in labour-saving
           | technology disappears, and you get multiple decades of
           | stagnation. Every country which had unlimited, unfree labour
           | has had decades of slow growth as a result.
           | 
           | Income growth in the working age population in the US since
           | 1990 has been about the same as Japan, a country which is
           | widely regarded as on the verge of economic collapse. US per
           | capita income is probably 20-30% lower than it would be with
           | first-order effects from immigration, likely much more with
           | second order effects. Under any other circumstances with
           | economic policy elsewhere, the US economy would be growing
           | 7%/year now (and ofc, the answer for Japan's ills is
           | apparently, you guessed, lots of immigration).
           | 
           | China is seeing secular reductions in production costs
           | because of capital investment, not low wages. The peculiarly
           | statist notion of American capitalists that the route to
           | economic supremacy was large numbers of illiterate
           | Guatemalans should go down as not only an economic failure
           | but a moral one (equally of H1B).
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | For tech jobs specifically? Compensation has been increasing
         | since the turn of the millennium, what standard of living do
         | you mean? If you mean housing, that's due mainly to NIMBYism
         | from native labor buying and owning houses, especially before
         | the tech boom, not imported labor.
        
       | reducesuffering wrote:
       | If you want to hire an H1B and claim there is no American to do
       | that job, what about the 30k employees you just laid off? None of
       | them can do the software engineering, sales, HR, etc. that a
       | company like Oracle works on 99% of the time? It's quite
       | schizophrenic for basic engineering companies like Oracle, Cisco,
       | eBay, Paypal, etc. to claim there are no Americans to do the
       | software engineering they require after they lay off thousands
       | and there are millions of American software engineers looking for
       | work.
        
         | marcher wrote:
         | Schizophrenic?
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | lots ppl are confused in this comment section. h1b doesnt not
         | require looking for a local first.
        
           | prerok wrote:
           | Sorry what? Yes, they do. Second-hand knowledge, though.
        
         | motbus3 wrote:
         | Read this guy comment before taking it to this level
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
        
           | nobodyandproud wrote:
           | He's a shill.
        
       | moshegramovsky wrote:
       | I don't understand why American workers would support this
       | program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and
       | other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from
       | the hiring caps.
       | 
       | I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops
       | having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do
       | what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no
       | way it's not just a hugely abusive to both pools of workers. The
       | whole thing really feels like another example of the imbalance
       | between labor and capital in the US.
       | 
       | Who originally wanted H-1B/etc? Rich people with money and power?
       | Of course!
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | workers dont. but dont speak against it either because they are
         | scared of losing heir jobs from accusations of racism.
        
           | moshegramovsky wrote:
           | I work in Bellevue, WA, and there are a lot of Indians. How
           | many are on H-1B? I I don't know. Anyway, I am a life long
           | Democrat, but the Democratic Party needs to do something huge
           | for American workers (like single payer healthcare) or we'll
           | have Trump III or its equivalent or worse than that.
        
         | dexwiz wrote:
         | Because our government is not run for the workers but the
         | owners. Full stop.
        
           | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
           | There are days I think what we need is a slightly bigger font
           | for heavily upvoted comments.
        
           | infamouscow wrote:
           | Owners are a minority of voters, which raises an obvious
           | question: _why does the majority tolerate it?_
           | 
           | Every serious attempt to answer that ends up admitting
           | something uncomfortable, that democracy only functions as
           | intended if voters are consistently rational and informed.
           | But that assumption doesn't hold. It _never has._ Even the
           | Athenians put Socrates, father of Western civilization, to
           | death.
           | 
           | If society were _at all_ rational, we 'd see a lot more
           | people swing from lampposts.
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | Wealth can be spent on influence. That includes news
             | converage / ads / or donations.
        
           | skippyboxedhero wrote:
           | To be clear too, this is not capitalism. This is corporatism.
           | Large companies dictating economic companies is anti-
           | innovation. It can only end with disaster and more
           | control/corporatism because lower-productivity workers does
           | not produce higher long-term growth. Temporarily you are able
           | to get your bonus and stock options from the spread between
           | imported and native workers but, eventually, demand and
           | supply stop (and the US reached this point a while ago, which
           | is why central bankers and politicians have had to intervene
           | heavily to keep it going).
           | 
           | The end game for corporatism is shown in Europe where you can
           | see a clear gap between countries that are built on non-zero
           | sum systems which are thriving, everything just works...and
           | then other countries which have been heavily corporatist for
           | multiple decades, everything is collapsing, government
           | function is both non-existent in many areas and reaching new
           | highs of intervention into markets. Unfortunately, the
           | Chinese were right.
        
         | some_random wrote:
         | It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful,
         | well compensated, and fun.
        
         | fooker wrote:
         | There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not
         | hiring immigrants.
         | 
         | This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions
         | about work visas to try and accomplish.
         | 
         | You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous
         | internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making
         | it redundant.
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | No. Abso-f'ing-lutely not, no way, no how. You cannot force me to
       | believe that the talent they're looking for isn't available here
       | already.
        
       | alephnerd wrote:
       | Meanwhile this March we saw 15k manufacturing jobs, 26k
       | construction jobs, and 91k healthcare and education jobs added
       | [0].
       | 
       | Those are the voters that matter (unionized, geographically
       | spread out, didn't price everyone else out via remote work) - not
       | SWEs.
       | 
       | [0] -
       | https://www.ft.com/content/82c1795b-704a-4da3-82ec-2f9cd52de...
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | construction, hospital nurses and daycare workers are the
         | avialble jobs? so depressing and scary
        
           | guzfip wrote:
           | Yeah you don't want to work 60+ hours a week to be even
           | remotely close to what you were making before?
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | > Yeah you don't want to work 60+ hours a week
             | 
             | These are union jobs where hours worked don't extend beyond
             | 50 hours including overtime and with significantly lower
             | barrier to entry compared to software.
             | 
             | Why should American SWEs earn more than Accountants (around
             | $80k), Teachers (around $70k), or Mechanical Engineers
             | (around $80k)?
             | 
             | It's this kind of attitude that makes non-techies feel
             | schadenfreude.
             | 
             | Techies moan and moan, yet in reality we became the capital
             | elite - a median TC of $190K [0] does make you the capital
             | elite in a country where the median _household_ income is
             | $80k [1]. Even investment bankers have a similar TC to SWEs
             | [2] - especially if you don 't work for a Bulge Bracket or
             | Elite Boutique.
             | 
             | [0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-
             | engineer/locations/united-...
             | 
             | [1] - https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo
             | /p60-28...
             | 
             | [2] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/investment-
             | banker?countryId=254&cou...
        
               | sapphicsnail wrote:
               | Just because someone has it worse doesn't mean you should
               | accept bad things happening.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | > so depressing and scary
           | 
           | Union jobs with set hours and lower barriers to entry than
           | software while offering middle class salaries? It's so
           | horrible /s.
           | 
           | It's this attitude that makes people who don't have stakes in
           | the software industry feel schadenfreude.
        
       | throwatdem12311 wrote:
       | Everyone that supports the H1-B program because they "can't find
       | talent" is my enemy.
        
         | motbus3 wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
         | 
         | You didn't even try to read the comments to get a context. You
         | assumed you were being attacked and you need to hate
         | immigrants. You are just being manipulated.
        
           | kypro wrote:
           | > Federal data shows the tech giant filed for over 3,000
           | foreign worker visas as it cuts thousands of American jobs.
           | 
           | Just trying to understand what context you feel is relevant
           | here...
           | 
           | Even if Oracle is also firing people in India the idea that
           | no American can do these jobs in the US should be challenged.
           | 
           | Let's assume they do need extremely specialised skills for
           | these roles and are struggling to find those skills in a
           | highly educated country like the US so need to look for
           | employees in countries like India, the question you should
           | then be asking is, well, if they couldn't hire from abroad
           | what would they do instead?
           | 
           | Perhaps they would need to give someone who recently
           | graduated a chance? Perhaps they would try to train people
           | working in adjacent fields at Oracle? Maybe they would
           | increase the salary so American's with these skills employed
           | elsewhere would switch jobs?
           | 
           | So can you steal-man why I should be in favour of companies
           | hiring abroad given there are clearly smart and educated
           | people in the US who are looking for work or might be tempted
           | to work for Oracle if they offered better salaries or
           | training?
           | 
           | Can you explain the advantage to the US workers in allowing
           | this?
        
           | throwatdem12311 wrote:
           | > you need to hate immigrants
           | 
           | Oracle is immigrants?
        
         | OptionOfT wrote:
         | And every employer that says they can't find talent fits in the
         | same bucket for me.
         | 
         | There is no issue finding talent. There is only an issue
         | finding talent that is willing to work for the too-low pay
         | you're willing to pay.
        
       | QGQBGdeZREunxLe wrote:
       | It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary
       | bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with
       | the DoL.
        
         | orochimaaru wrote:
         | The H1B has "speciality" categories. You can lay off in one
         | "speciality" while hiring for others. It's silly but that's how
         | it's setup at the moment.
         | 
         | I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed.
         | So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this.
         | 
         | The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US
         | workers was. India was hit hard.
        
         | PearlRiver wrote:
         | The US only has two political parties and they are both,
         | secretly, pro immigration.
         | 
         | The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far
         | right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he
         | cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from
         | Europe.
        
           | peyton wrote:
           | To be fair the US is pro-immigration and that's no secret.
           | H1-B is a guest worker visa. Those jobs could equally go to
           | immigrants.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations,
         | like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent
         | relationship to the company
        
         | fooker wrote:
         | When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find
         | out why something works like it does. :)
         | 
         | With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent
         | residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to
         | exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off.
         | 
         | This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
        
       | zombot wrote:
       | The MAGA crowd will be ecstatic. They get fired while their
       | president's buddy gets to hire new workers that are cheaper and
       | more susceptible to extortion. Be careful what you vote for.
        
         | motbus3 wrote:
         | Well... If they fact check stuff... The layoffs didn't happen
         | in America
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | 3,000 Indians were laid off out of 15,000.
        
         | Dig1t wrote:
         | There was no option to vote for which was actually pro-worker.
         | The other side is just as in-favor of these "high skilled"
         | visas, and also even more pro mass-migration of all kinds. The
         | previous admin sued Texas and Arizona to take down their border
         | walls, and sent forklifts to literally open the barbed wire at
         | the border.
         | 
         | There is no evidence that the alternative party would have done
         | anything about this issue.
         | 
         | It is obvious that both parties are completely detached from
         | the interests of their constituents.
        
           | moshegramovsky wrote:
           | You're definitely not wrong but I still voted for Kamala
           | because I didn't want Trump to burn the country down.
        
         | moshegramovsky wrote:
         | That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much)
         | about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden
         | when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice
         | absolutely anything for _their_ king.
        
       | reenorap wrote:
       | The title is extremely deceitful. They filed H1Bs for 2025 and
       | 2026, but not after or during the layoffs from last week.
       | 
       | That's like saying "Oracle hires tens of thousands and mass
       | layoffs" (* hired during the pandemic)
        
       | lateforwork wrote:
       | Keep in mind that employers have to pay $100,000 in visa fees (in
       | addition to competitive salaries) for each H-1B visa. Clearly
       | these immigrants are not undercutting US workers. It is $100K
       | cheaper to hire a US worker.
        
         | VectorLock wrote:
         | Unless they get waivers, which I'm sure Larry has worked out
         | with his buddy.
        
         | ibero wrote:
         | to clear up confusion, this 100k applies to brand new h1b
         | petitions outside the country.
         | 
         | if you are already in the US it currently does not apply to
         | you, or if you are transferring jobs with an existing h1b, or
         | renewing your h1b.
         | 
         | source: former h1b
         | 
         | side note: as of february it's estimated only 85 h1b petitions
         | paid the 100k fee. the rest did not fall under the
         | qualification.
         | 
         | https://www.staffingindustry.com/news/global-daily-news/1000...
        
       | jinglebell2025 wrote:
       | America has an H1b invasion problem
        
       | hackthemack wrote:
       | I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a
       | H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally.
       | Consider a simplified model of the system.
       | 
       | You have 2 countries, C1 and C2.
       | 
       | Scenario 1: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has
       | 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
       | 
       | The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply.
       | 
       | Scenario 2: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has
       | 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
       | 
       | Now you put in a H1-B visa program that will pay the same as the
       | prevalent wage as a local native. C2 has enough candidates to
       | fill the other 50 positions.
       | 
       | The wages of C1 will NOT go up because now supply matches demand.
       | 
       | Is Scenario 2 fair? Who gets to decide what fair is? Given the
       | above system, I think I would argue that H1-B visa programs cause
       | wage deflation in C1, even if it is filling jobs that would not
       | be filled and even if the jobs paid the exact same as someone
       | working in the native country.
       | 
       | I am not dogmatic about that though. Willing to hear a
       | counterpoint to scenario 2.
        
       | smetannik wrote:
       | Did oracle manage to circumvent 100k payment per H1B applicant?
       | 
       | Also, why they need to do H1B instead of just outsourcing abroad?
        
       | MrWiffles wrote:
       | What I'm not clear on - how many of these H1B hires are subject
       | to the EO that jacked up the fee to $100k per person? Assuming
       | even just 100 of them were, that's still ten million USD
       | (assuming I didn't visualize the zeroes in my head wrong...), and
       | a really large fee to justify to the board if you're otherwise
       | paying "roughly the same" in salary. Productivity is going to
       | basically break even anyway after a few years.
       | 
       | This is why I'm wondering: did the EO get blocked, paused for
       | judicial review or something? Is it even in effect?
       | 
       | No intention to make this political, I'm legitimately curious
       | about the status of the law and its actual applicability here.
       | Supposed to be such a steep fine they literally couldn't afford
       | to do this - not with them already going cash flow negative to
       | build out AI datacenters. So either it's not applying (why?) or
       | somehow they're justifying one HUGE fee and somebody is floating
       | them one astronomical loan - which again, why? Where's the profit
       | in taking that big a risk? Seems absolutely unhinged!
       | 
       | We're missing something here. Or, at least, I am.
        
         | suid wrote:
         | Remember that there was a "one-time fee" exception for "favored
         | clients" (read: friends of Trump), who could pay a single lump-
         | sum of something like $1 million, and then apply for unlimited
         | H-1B's at the old fee structure.
        
           | MrWiffles wrote:
           | I was not aware of this loophole. Thank you. I've got some
           | strong opinions but I'm just going to keep those to myself
           | right now. And my dog. She'll hear me as I scream profanities
           | into the void...
        
       | emodendroket wrote:
       | All of these companies are hiring constantly even as they do
       | layoffs so this is an easy story to write every time there are
       | layoffs.
        
       | BeetleB wrote:
       | To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent
       | in the US to fill those roles:
       | 
       | Honestly tell me: Would _you_ ever apply to Oracle for a job?
        
       | fooker wrote:
       | This article is deliberately written in a way to aggravate people
       | who do not understand how the visa process works.
        
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