[HN Gopher] My MacBook Keyboard Is Broken and It's Insanely Expe...
___________________________________________________________________
My MacBook Keyboard Is Broken and It's Insanely Expensive to Fix
Author : TobiasBerg
Score : 106 points
Date : 2026-03-29 19:08 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tobiasberg.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (tobiasberg.net)
| hurricanepootis wrote:
| This isn't an issue with macbook keyboards, a lot of windows
| laptops have their keyboards riveted to the C cover of a laptop.
| matt_heimer wrote:
| isn't an issue ONLY with macbook keyboards. It is absolutely an
| issue that shouldn't exist.
| hurricanepootis wrote:
| Yes, my bad. I totally agree with that it does indeed suck.
| I've had to replace the C cover of my laptop before for
| reasons not related to the keyboard (a screw post broke
| because Dell had the bright of idea of attaching a metal
| screw post to the body with plastic). I ended up fixing that
| issue, but the keyboard that was installed in the C cover was
| noticeably shittier than my old one.
|
| I'm now on a Framework 13, and it's been pretty fun so far.
| jwlake wrote:
| ifixit sells just the keyboards, why doesn't that work?
|
| https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-pro-14-a2442-a2779-a...
| MrDOS wrote:
| The article is ten paragraphs (two of which are four words or
| shorter). The entire sixth paragraph is dedicated to answering
| that question.
| mosselman wrote:
| Someone posted a video on how to slam out the rivets with a
| screwdriver.
| SkiFire13 wrote:
| I don't see a replacement guide link on that page, but
| curiously there's this note:
|
| > The aluminum upper case and installation screws are not
| included.
|
| I would assume you likely need those too, as the article also
| mentions.
| nerdsniper wrote:
| Wouldn't the screws in your existing generally be reusable
| for this replacement?
| mh- wrote:
| Yes, they're not highly torqued or anything. I would reuse
| them even if it _did_ include new screws.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| the keyboard in the current macbook pro is RIVETED.
| k310 wrote:
| Go figure. MacBook Neo Is the Most Repairable MacBook in 14 Years
| [0]
|
| Much as a laptop would suit me, I opted for a mini and a large
| display.
|
| Come keyboard time, I was ready to spend $$$$$ for an Apple
| keyboard, but the only backlit ones come on laptops. I'm using a
| Logitech now, with the option of charging it all the time, else
| the lights dim themselves to conserve battery.
|
| Yes, I was 19 once. And three times after that. But there we go
| again, stuff designed for 19 year-olds.
|
| How about this? (image at imgbb.com)
|
| https://i.ibb.co/66RZd3b/mbp16-m3-max-01.jpg (JK)
| BoredPositron wrote:
| What MacBook is it? If you don't have the insane butterfly
| switches single keys are pretty repairable now.
| drdirk wrote:
| My MacBook Pro M1 keyboard repair costed >700EUR, this is not a
| butterfly keyboard. So also new models have an expensive
| keyboard replacement.
|
| My previous MacBook Pro keyboard was a butterfly keyboard and
| also broke, but got replaced for free. I don't feel I am a
| heavy user as the MacBook Pro is mostly connected to an
| external keyboard and am pretty annoyed by apples keyboard
| quality (based on my sample size of 2).
| brailsafe wrote:
| I think those are just the keycaps, not the switches or the
| actual board underneath
| KnuthIsGod wrote:
| My first computer was a Mac Plus.
|
| I got to experience Apple's customer hostile practices.
|
| Many years ago l decided never to buy an Apple product again.
| justinator wrote:
| AppleCare is honestly a great deal, especially for laptops. M1
| Macbook Pros from 2020 are humming along just fine for regular
| people who see no reason to upgrade.
|
| The future is now, old man.
| tim-tday wrote:
| Bought AppleCare for my AirPods. Never again.
| bombcar wrote:
| AppleCare is only worth it for expensive things with big
| repair costs; the "repair fee" for AirPods is such a high
| percentage of the replacement price that it just is not
| worth it.
| phil21 wrote:
| AppleCare is leaps and bounds better than any other
| insurance you can buy for mobile or laptops.
|
| For accessories I don't see the point, those are
| effectively disposable wear items.
|
| Ironically a large part of deciding to migrate to an iPhone
| from android was final frustrations with even Google
| purchased devices under warranty coupled with hardware
| quality requiring repairs. My wife's experience with
| AppleCare won me over.
|
| If nothing else it's first party insurance. I will never
| purchase device insurance offered via a third party ever
| again. Either its first party so I'm dealing with the place
| I bought it or nothing at all.
| radley wrote:
| I've never worried about AppleCare for my Apple products,
| until this year when I signed up for AppleCare One. I bought
| a few new devices, including the Studio Monitor XDR. For the
| XDR alone it's worth it, since replacing the screen is a
| multi-$1k repair.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| I just looked up Apple Care. Costs $449 AUD (~$300 USD) for 3
| years of coverage on a MacBook Pro.
|
| A quick search shows that it's ~$500-$600 to fix the screen
| if it does break; I didn't bother looking up the keyboard but
| I'd assume it's much, much less.
|
| So basically, on the off chance that your MacBook does shit
| the bed in the most expensive way, you save ~$150 or so? But
| in the almost-certain case that your Macbook is fine, you're
| down $450?
|
| That is not a great deal at all, haha!
| mattbillenstein wrote:
| Framework Laptop + some form of Linux - MacOS keeps getting worse
| and the hardware exceeding hard and expensive to repair.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| If they would have sprung for the AMD395+ in the latop @ 128GB,
| you'd have a fair comparison for AI compute.
| 0xedd wrote:
| HP Zbook G1a 14. OEM Linux support.
| zapnuk wrote:
| Framework Laptop is more expensive than a Macbook Air with all
| around worse hardware. For a framework 13 I'd have to pay
| 1900EUR with a 16GB setup. For 1450 I get a MBA with 24GB ram.
| Similar with a dell or lenovo who get smoked in performance
| comparisons.
|
| It might still be worth it for those who hugely value open
| source and repairability but as for value I think its save to
| say that Apple is currently in a league of their own. Even if
| the altest os update is a flop.
|
| Also, the Macbook has improved repairability. While its still
| not great its better than a few years ago.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| > Framework Laptop is more expensive than a Macbook Air with
| all around worse hardware.
|
| Is it though? I'd agree the hardware is less capable but if
| your Macbook anything is really just one 'top case' repair
| away from being more expensive. RAM failure is 'motherboard
| replace', the display? it is similarly expensive to replace.
|
| So I would agree that it is more expensive to purchase a
| Framework laptop than a Macbook laptop, but also feel it is
| more expensive to _own_ a Macbook laptop than a Framework
| laptop. Also I just replaced the screen on my FW13 not
| because it was broken but because they have one with 4x the
| pixels on it now. That 's not something I could have done
| with the Macbook.
| wat10000 wrote:
| What is the probability of those things failing during the
| time you have the MacBook? I've had Apple portables since
| they were called PowerBooks and the only problem I've had
| that wasn't caused by violence was a battery swelling, and
| that cost me something like $120 to replace, not a big
| deal. If you add 5% to the price, that's probably about
| your expected cost for repairs or premature replacements if
| you don't have a habit of damaging your equipment.
|
| If'd rather not take a low risk of a big repair/replacement
| bill and you don't mind helping Big Fruit make a bit more
| of a profit, you can pay them $50-150/year (depending on
| model) to take that risk. Multiply that by the number of
| years you expect to own the device to come up with a "real"
| cost including repairs/replacements.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| > What is the probability of those things failing during
| the time you have the MacBook?
|
| and
|
| > ... you can pay them $50-150/year (depending on model)
| to take that risk.
|
| These things are related, Apple knows what the failure
| rate in the field for their hardware is, and they "price
| in" that failure rate into their AppleCare costs. On my
| iPad pro, that's $90/year.
|
| That said, it is entirely a 'bet' on your part as to
| whether or not you're in a position to cover costs of
| repair/replacement in the event of damage. That depends
| on a lots of factors and includes how much you can
| tolerate not having the equipment for a while, Etc.
| stavros wrote:
| My Framework 13 is a bit long in the tooth. I can pay 529
| EUR to get a new mainboard and keep the same
| case/battery/speakers/camera/keyboard/mouse/screen/etc.
| Or, I can replace the keyboard for 32 EUR.
|
| It's not just repairs, to upgrade a Mac you have to throw
| away all that perfectly working hardware just to get a
| new mainboard.
| mittensc wrote:
| I can configure a 1400E framework 13 with a bring-my-own ssd
| + linux.
|
| I can drop it down to 1050E without the ram if i take ram
| from my older laptop.
|
| Upgrading or fixing this is very easy. RAM/SSD i can take
| with me over multiple generations of a laptop.
|
| I can't do that on a macbook, if anything breaks there
| (screen, ssd, ram, keyboard, battery bulging...) I might as
| well buy another.
|
| Then there's the issue of macos... you're stuck with it, if
| you don't like it, it's a dealbreaker.
|
| There's also issue of waste... I can make a router/firewall
| from an old framework mobo. I can't do that with a macbook.
| bigyabai wrote:
| It's not just Tahoe; macOS is simply insufferable for many
| users. You can pitch Apple Silicon to gamers, warship
| captains or datacenter users, but they won't care when the
| dust settles. It's a device for people that want a Mac, and
| if you want a PC, server or homelab then you gotta get
| different hardware. It's entirely a software limitation,
| imposed by Apple.
|
| I don't value open source or repairability _that_ much. I
| just want to develop server software, and on macOS I always
| end up with the same janky VM-based workflow I suffer through
| on Windows. On the desktop I have no reason to waste my time
| with macOS, and I don 't use a laptop often enough to justify
| reincorporating macOS into my life.
| VladVladikoff wrote:
| Looks like it's possible to replace just the keyboard
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SeSQ0DpG1HA&t=907s&pp=2AGLB5AC...
| throwaway27448 wrote:
| It is. It's simply expensive.
| mosselman wrote:
| No, a new keyboard is between 12 and 50 euros depending on
| where you get it, the video is the missing piece.
| mememememememo wrote:
| > mapped capslock + J K L I
|
| you need to visit the confessional for that
| ebbi wrote:
| Cautiously optimistic, given the repairability of the MacBook Neo
| keyboard, that this design will make it to the rest of their
| laptops when the refreshed designs are released (next year?).
| julienreszka wrote:
| >Here's hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to
| actually make repairable machines in the future.
|
| if you thing government regulation will help you you are lying to
| yourself that's not how the world works
| Fargren wrote:
| Government regulation has mandated USB-C in all devices, which
| helps me every day. Just to name something in the realm of what
| the article is about.
| bigyabai wrote:
| If you think Apple is incapable of designing repairable
| keyboards, then I'd like to know how Lenovo figured it out:
| https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T480+Keyboard+R...
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Chewing on lead paint and reading Ayn Rand is not how to learn
| how the world works either.
| tim-tday wrote:
| I just had the most horrendous Apple repair experience. In
| standard warranty with Apple care. Would NOT authorize a mail in
| repair. Would only authorize walk in to my local shitty Apple
| authorized third party repair center who were unable / unwilling
| to reproduce.
|
| Fought with them for weeks. Escalated. They lied and said they
| were doing a no cost replacement. Had to fight the charge. Then
| they lost my return.
|
| So much so that I've started switching to Linux and de-googled
| phone. (Switching off of iPhone just to go to google seems like
| the greater of evils)
|
| The non Apple ecosystem is much more mature than last I checked
| but still irritating. De googling was my biggest challenge.
| Getting a viable replacement for Mac OS was the easy part.
| crazygringo wrote:
| What was the problem? If the local repair center couldn't
| reproduce it, what was going on?
|
| And what do you mean they lost your return? Like it got
| delivered and then it was lost? Surely they gave you a working
| unit at that point?
|
| I've had a bunch of experiences with Apple repair and always
| always been fast and great. I mean, they're definitely the best
| service of literally _any_ corporation I 've dealt with, by
| far. Sometimes you get unlucky I guess with a particular rep or
| something hard to reproduce, but it sounds like you got
| _extremely_ unlucky? It definitely isn 't representative in my
| experience, not even close.
| relium wrote:
| My MacBook Pro M1 keyboard broke too and Apple wanted $900 to
| replace it. I bought a $30 replacement on Amazon and started
| replacing it myself. Unfortunately the repair was a bit too
| complicated for me, but luckily one of my co-workers had more
| patience and replaced it for some beer.
|
| This video is a good overview:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGmMpEEP5ls
| linsomniac wrote:
| Does anyone know if this is covered under the Apple Care plans?
| My 16" M1 MBP keyboard has been no problem, I'm just curious. Not
| saying that negates the issue.
|
| Unfortunately, AFAICT, these repairability issues are largely due
| to the move to thinner and lighter laptops. Replacing my MILs
| Microsoft Surface tablet was a pain in the butt. Had to cut the
| case open and tape it back together. But that thing was insanely
| small and light. My MIL liked it because she has a lot of trouble
| carrying anything very heavy.
| mananaysiempre wrote:
| Keyboards on MacBook Pros have been riveted since at least
| 2014. That doesn't necessarily disprove your argument, but it
| does move the "thin and light" bar farther back than one would
| expect from the phrasing.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Apple has long made trade offs in pursuit of "thin and
| light". Apple announced the 2014 MBP as "People love their
| MacBook Pro because of the thin and light, aluminum unibody
| design". https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/29Apple-
| Updates-MacBo...
| radley wrote:
| Ah, that timeframe is helpful to know. I had to replace the
| keyboard in my 2012 MBP twice, and was able to do it myself
| both times.
|
| Since then, I always use keyboard skins.
| vr46 wrote:
| Yes it is, I had my M! Max keyboard replaced as repairing the
| individual keycaps didn't work, and then they replaced the
| entire logic board while they were testing due to finding an
| error. Total cost was around EUR1400, to me EUR0. New bottom
| case, new battery, new logic board.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| Swedes many times have a defeatist attitude towards companies and
| authorities, and expect that they will never get any help unless
| they have a right to it (from warranties or such).
|
| The author doesn't mention ever contacting Apple to get his
| keyboard fixed. Maybe he could have gotten pleasantly surprised?
|
| "Here's hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to
| actually make repairable machines in the future."
|
| However, this quote is not a surprise at all, and goes perfectly
| in line with Swedish philosophy. And the philosophy of this
| message board as well.
| stkhlm wrote:
| The author isn't Swedish. I've known him for 18 years. Not sure
| where this comes from.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| His name is Swedish or it could be Norwegian.
|
| Anyway, did he contact Apple to see if they could help him
| out? Because sometimes Apple fixes these things for free.
|
| I've had very good and very bad experiences with Apple
| support for hardware failures. It's worth trying to contact
| them, instead of calling for more government regulation.
| stkhlm wrote:
| He went through the Apple Icon -> "About This Mac" -> "More
| Info" -> Coverage Expired Details Button -> Clicked the Get
| Support button and ended up in an infinite loop of
| questions on the Apple website if I recall correctly.
|
| Not great support on Apples side there.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| That's not the point where you give up. That's the point
| where you call or e-mail the company to talk to a human.
|
| Hence my comment about defeatism. Sometimes you have to
| push a little bit before giving up and crying for the
| government to come help you. Big companies aren't
| unbending stone statues.
| MostlyStable wrote:
| >Here's hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to
| actually make repairable machines in the future.
|
| No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy
| one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework, but
| there are other options that aren't that far down the spectrum
| either.
|
| One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build
| quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of
| flex, etc. These quality features are, in part, achieved by the
| same choices that make it hard to repair. Ease of repair and
| "build quality", are to some degree (although not entirely)
| tradeoffs against each other.
|
| I say this as a framework owner who would never buy something as
| irreparable as a macbook. Regulation is not the answer here.
| wvenable wrote:
| > No, this is a bad solution.
|
| You didn't say why this is a bad solution. The government
| mandates that cars get safer every year and fatalities are down
| 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government regulates things to
| benefit people, people tend to benefit.
|
| > One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build
| quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of
| flex, etc.
|
| It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as
| well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to
| repair.
| internet2000 wrote:
| > It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties
| as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy
| to repair.
|
| It's slightly worse, slightly more flex, thicker and heavier
| vs an Air in spite of having a smaller battery and more empty
| space. It's all trade offs.
|
| If you want repairable, please buy a Framework or Lenovo.
| Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the
| answer.
| wvenable wrote:
| > Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not
| the answer.
|
| Again, why not? It's not mandating design, just minimal
| standards for repairability that should be obvious. If
| Framework and Lenovo can do it and Apple can do it on a
| $600 laptop, why can't everyone do it?
| free_bip wrote:
| Oh no, my laptop is 2mm thicker than a different laptop.
| Won't someone think of the 2mm?
| VogonPoetry wrote:
| That 2mm uses at least (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm =
| 2,280 mm^3 more material for the case. (a wall thickness
| of 1mm)
| stavros wrote:
| I don't understand your math. The 1mm (the wall) was
| there already, so why is it being counted here? Plus,
| multiplying by 1 doesn't do anything? Also, the 2mm extra
| won't be solid plastic (they'll be solid air, since
| that's why we're adding the extra thickness, for the
| room.
|
| If anything, the extra material for the case would be the
| perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times the
| height.
| Arcuru wrote:
| > If anything, the extra material for the case would be
| the perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times
| the height
|
| That's what they did?
|
| Perimeter length = 2*335mm + 2*235mm
|
| Wall height diff = 2mm
|
| Wall width = 1mm
|
| (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3
| stavros wrote:
| Ah, thanks, I think what happened was that the asterisks
| were turned into italics and confused me. I think the
| message was edited to clarify.
| bloppe wrote:
| Car safety is a bad counterexample because the risk is
| otherwise often externalized i.e. your car can easily hurt a
| total stranger whereas the consequences of your choice in
| laptop are strictly personal. And as GP stated, regulating
| this sort of thing would definitely force a particular trade-
| off on everyone. A lot of people would be pissed to have
| MacBooks with worse "build quality" even if they were more
| reparable. Having a choice is better.
| gambiting wrote:
| >> your car can easily hurt a total stranger whereas the
| consequences of your choice in laptop are strictly
| personal.
|
| You know that safety for pedestrians is also a very tightly
| regulated car safety category, right? Obviously, there's
| not much that can be done if you get hit by a car going
| 70mph, but the fact that most people should survive a 30mph
| impact with a modern car is mostly thanks to regulations
| requiring crumple zones specifically designed to protect
| pedestrians in a collision. And yeah, there are huge trade
| offs - I imagine people would generally prefer a car that
| doesn't need incredibly expensive repairs after a minor
| collision because everything at the front just crumpled,
| but then they would be guaranteed to cut off legs of any
| person hit - it's a trade off.
| wvenable wrote:
| I disagree. The lack of repairability has external costs
| not born by the purchaser or the manufacturer -- more toxic
| trash unnecessarily added to the environment.
|
| Forcing a particular trade-off on everyone is entirely the
| point. It's the point of car safety, it's also the point of
| minimum warranties, electrical emission regulations, safety
| standards, etc.
| VogonPoetry wrote:
| Does this also mean only using "standard" parts? Or does
| the manufacturer have to over-produce the parts for, lets
| say 7 years, and then warehouse and ship those parts,
| probably multiple times. Or keep a low rate production
| line running for 7 years? What happens to the parts that
| don't get used? Are they scrapped?
|
| That "what if" cost is going to be built into the cost of
| the laptop. Repairability doesn't always keep the cost
| low. The purchaser will definitely have to foot the cost
| otherwise it isn't sustainable.
| wvenable wrote:
| Repairability definitely doesn't keep the costs low. If
| it was cheaper and easier, it wouldn't have to be
| regulated. As for supply chain management, companies that
| get that equation correct are going to benefit. Which is
| exactly how it should be.
|
| We define the rules of the game and companies that can
| best implement those rules will succeed. That is
| capitalism.
| jdpedrie wrote:
| > The government mandates that cars get safer every year and
| fatalities are down 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government
| regulates things to benefit people, people tend to benefit.
|
| On some metrics. On affordability, new cars are considerably
| more expensive. Whether that's a worthwhile tradeoff is
| beside the point. The GP's point is that there's no free
| lunch, and your example doesn't address that.
| wvenable wrote:
| I never said the lunch was free only that it should be
| nutritious.
| an0malous wrote:
| > You didn't say why this is a bad solution.
|
| The fear is that regulations ossify industries and that's why
| heavily regulated industries like healthcare, education, and
| transportation have seen basically no innovation in 50 years.
| If you mandate that all electronic devices must have USB-C
| cables, how can anyone invent something better than a USB-C
| cable? And for what, so people don't have to have multiple
| cables? That's not even in the top 100 problems that a
| government body as large as the EU should be concerned about.
|
| > Whenever government regulates things to benefit people,
| people tend to benefit.
|
| Healthcare, education, transportation, and housing would all
| be counterexamples depending on how you want to frame
| "benefit."
|
| > It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties
| as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy
| to repair.
|
| This is counter to your point, no one regulated that Apple
| make the MacBook Neo easy to repair. Apple is incentivized to
| follow the market.
| Tade0 wrote:
| > If you mandate that all electronic devices must have
| USB-C cables, how can anyone invent something better than a
| USB-C cable?
|
| That already happened with Micro USB. The EU initially
| mandated that manufacturers agree on a standard socket,
| because the absolute zoo of charging ports back then was
| counter-productive and only generated e-waste. Ultimately
| they agreed to use Micro USB, but obviously that's not
| what's used today.
|
| These regulations are not just dumped on the manufacturers
| - there's a period of consultation and a grace period to
| implement them. If something actually better came up, you'd
| eventually see it mandated.
| flir wrote:
| Healthcare? Maybe you distinguish that from medicine
| somehow, but I'd rather have [literally any disease] today
| than fifty years ago.
| matt-attack wrote:
| Do you have a reference for the neo being easy to repair? Is
| this regarding the keyboard? Or the whole thing?
| mrtksn wrote:
| What if the repairable ones crunch the numbers and find out
| that Apple got the right idea from business standpoint and the
| only reason they can't do the same is that their laptops or
| their brand is not as good? It will mean that if they actually
| end up making a product that people want that product will not
| be easy to repair as well.
| radley wrote:
| > If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others
| have already mentioned Framework
|
| But that means Windows or Linux, not macOS. There's serious
| trade-offs that you're dismissing because you personally don't
| need macOS, but that's not the case for everyone.
|
| #hn-bingo
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| macOS has slid a long way down the quality ladder over the
| past ten years.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| In what way? Tahoe's UI SNAFU aside, it seems like it's
| basically just a more polished version of the older macOS
| versions from a decade ago.
| vintagedave wrote:
| I run into bugs every day. It wakes, and has a black
| screen not wallpaper. Change spaces and the focus is
| wrong for half a second. Login screen is a pain because
| it collapses all users together. Notifications don't
| scroll if they stop scrolling when the cursor is over a
| gap between them. Something on the system constantly eats
| disk space, and I think it's the system updates. If I
| dock two apps in one space, sometimes one is black. If I
| zoom out to the Spaces overview it shows fine in the
| preview though. In the Terminal if I close a tab it can
| focus an entirely different window.
|
| I could go on for hours. It's a buggy mess these days and
| I miss Lion and Snow Leopard desperately.
| nine_k wrote:
| Unless these problem only started after an upgrade to
| Tahoe, I would strongly suspect defective hardware in
| your case.
| jorvi wrote:
| For all its faults I do still like modern macOS, but it
| is a far cry from the beauty that was Mac OS X 10.6.8
| (Snow Leopard).
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Sure, but relative to windows...
| lucasfin000 wrote:
| The "just buy another one" argument only works if the
| alternatives are even comparable. For a lot of people, macOS is
| a hard requirement and not a preference, so telling them just
| to buy a framework that runs Linux ignores that entirely. Right
| to repair regulation doesn't force Apple to make a worse
| product it just requires that the parts and repair information
| are available.
| jclardy wrote:
| Interestingly, Apple's newest and cheapest laptop (the Neo) is
| super repairable. And even the keyboard is finally replaceable
| without having to replace the entire top case. Hopefully the
| trend is continued in the next redesigns of the Air and Pro
| which are due soon.
| throw939484999 wrote:
| Goverment regulates everything including cow farts!
|
| Apple can keep their unrepairable macbook. Butc should not be
| marketed as "green product". It should pay extra as ICE cars,
| be excluded from educational markets, public institutions
| etc...
| kakacik wrote:
| What a wildly incorrect comment. You realize its perfectly
| feasible and fully within apple engineers powers to design
| trivially repairable notebook (or any other device) while not
| losing any of those qualities you mention (which are easy to
| find in expensive competition too)? Don't make those extremely
| well paid engineers incompetent just because it suits your
| argument.
|
| But vendor lockin mandated by management is way more powerful
| than powers of engineers, apple ain't immune to this since its
| accountants and lawyers running the company.
|
| I'll give it a benefit of a doubt and won't claim its a PR
| comment and just a uncritical fanboy one, but its pretty close.
| Gigachad wrote:
| Decades of HN users finger wagging and suggesting FOSS hardware
| has progressed society nowhere. 12 months from EU mandatory
| replaceable batteries and products across the industry are
| being redesigned with repairability, usb-c, and user friendly
| designs.
|
| It's time to accept regulation actually does work when you have
| a competent government.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Indeed, government regulation is decried mostly because of
| all the cases where it got polluted by special interests,
| instead of following the interests of general consumers.
|
| This is how you end up turning a chunk of your food supply
| into fuel to subsidize crops which aren't all that good at
| being distilled into fuel in the first place...
| ajkjk wrote:
| well it's a good solution in the sense that it would solve the
| problem and it would be great for all of us.
| pvtmert wrote:
| Here is the thing, replacing something may be hard or easy. But
| getting the parts (which are already produced and available for
| the manufacturers for their "added value" repairs) should be as
| easy as how they are getting them too.
|
| Not to mention manuals/instructions. Regulation discussed here
| is about these too.
|
| Also as consumer, I would argue the marketing done by apple is
| just scammy. They keep praising how much carbon saved or
| sustainable new machines are. But in fact, a minor issue
| becomes a massive electronic dump.
|
| I also like Macs, I own several of them. Repaired a few. Mostly
| replacing batteries and keyboards. For example 2014 Macbook Air
| had a normal battery, no sticky business. Meanwhile 2020-2025
| MacBook Air has sticky stuff, making repairs harder.
|
| The best part is, 2014 macbook air has 54 Watt/hr battery,
| 2020-2025 models are 53 watts/hour. The lasting battery gains
| are coming from Apple silicon efficiency as well as modern BMS.
|
| Simply put, regulation is the answer. Apple makes it difficult
| because they can, and also because it creates revenue. Of
| repairability was the source of income, you would see 10/10
| repairable macbooks with no (significant) tradeoffs. (ie. it
| could be a few grams heavier for added screws)
| danpalmer wrote:
| > If you want a repairable machine, buy one.... Framework
|
| Sure, but Framework doesn't run the OS I want, doesn't run the
| chip I want, doesn't quite meet the form factor I want. It's
| not an effective market because I can't pick and choose.
|
| The problem here is vertical integration. If you want anything
| from Apple you have to buy everything from Apple.
|
| And the answer to that is: regulation.
| henry2023 wrote:
| you seem to assume that markets regulate themselves. This is a
| common fallacy. Good regulation is fundamental in any working
| society.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| 100% agree. If you don't like that Apple products are expensive
| to repair, don't buy them or suck it up
|
| I came to terms with it, mostly. I buy AppleCare. I've had my
| screen on my M1 Mac replaced twice.
|
| I agree with the sentiment tho. I had the rubber foot come off
| the bottom of a MacBook Pro, Apple wanted $350 to replace that
| $1 part. I found other solutions
| GreenVulpine wrote:
| No. This is a bad solution. You can't blame consumers for not
| making the right choice when there's a sea of irreparable junk
| and a few niche repairable options on the market. Reparability
| should be the default expectation.
| bonyt wrote:
| I replaced the keyboard MacBook Air M1 keyboard with a $20 model
| from Amazon and it's been going strong for a full year. I had
| spilled ginger ale on the original.
|
| The board is riveted in, but there are enough screws to hold the
| replacement in place. Removing the board is a shockingly violent
| process, but it worked for me.
|
| Keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQBVMM3X (price has gone
| up).
|
| Video of rivets breaking: https://i.tonybox.net/9f2083b218d5.mp4
| (you can see I missed a screw and slightly cut my hand here too).
| TobiasBerg wrote:
| Thanks for posting, I might attempt this if I feel brave enough
| one day! Mind if I link to this from the post? Could help
| someone in the future
| bonyt wrote:
| Sure - of course! Hope it can be helpful.
| x0x0 wrote:
| wow, you are not underplaying the force needed. You can hear
| the rivets going.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| the macbook neo has gone back to a replaceable keyboard. The next
| line of macbookpros are appenrly getting a new case design. There
| is hope.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| This is like complaining that BMW maintenance is expensive.
| contingencies wrote:
| I strongly recommend not buying a Macbook and instead hacking a
| mini: https://github.com/vk2diy/hackbook-m4-mini ... cheaper and
| restores control of peripheral selection and replacement. That is
| to say "such a system will last ~forever instead of ~3 years
| [when the first major component dies and replacement costs ~70%
| of a new Apple product]". Particularly with Asahi Linux
| progressing so quickly. https://asahilinux.org/ Without Asahi
| Linux I would not buy a Mac in 2026.
|
| I too looked at _Framework_ and like the idea, unfortunately in
| my case the supply chain was too slow to be tolerable, before
| even considering the price-performance ratio.
|
| I strongly support the idea that the EU should force vendors to
| make consumer device repairs cost-effective and available or open
| source and expose their component interfaces in exchange for the
| right to sell in Europe. After all, the EU brought us USB-C, so
| we know regulatory pressure works. Thanks, EU!
| coldsunrays wrote:
| > order a replacement keyboard, take the laptop apart, replace
| the keyboard and good to go
|
| That's all it took with my Framework laptop, and I'm very
| grateful for it. I was in a good place financially when I got it,
| but now I'm not. I feel a strong sense of relief that if an
| accident occurs and I need a repair, it won't set me back too
| much.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| The trackpad on my 2.5 year old Macbook Air stopped working.
| Apple wanted over PS400 to fix it. Thankfully I found a local guy
| who did it for a fraction of that. Screw Apple.
| heelix wrote:
| Had a similar experience with the XPS series. Was able to find a
| keyboard. When taken apart, realized they had used plastic bits,
| tape, and other things to connect the keyboard to the top lid.
| Seems they expected one to either be handy with epoxy or buy the
| combo.
| bluedino wrote:
| I thought the keys were replaceable now?
|
| (first video I found on a search)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WYT7YIh00Xk
|
| I know in the Butterfly days those keys would break when you
| removed them.
| Tade0 wrote:
| Far more likely it's an electrical contact issue.
| charcircuit wrote:
| It would have been cheaper if the author would have bought
| AppleCare.
| EteenSMASH wrote:
| Buy a framework bro
| Tade0 wrote:
| > I say "stopped working", but technically it works too well now,
| it is being pressed constantly, which makes the laptop pretty
| unusable.
|
| I had this problem in my Framework. I fixed it by... holding the
| laptop upside down and mashing the offending key for several
| minutes. Didn't work immediately, but now you wouldn't tell that
| it was ever broken. I've managed to panic-order (~EUR80) another
| keyboard though, so now I have a spare.
|
| For context a laptop keyboard is build like this:
|
| https://www.iqsdirectory.com/articles/membrane-switch/membra...
|
| This problem is caused by the layers sticking together. In the
| case of the Framework 16 the "d" key sits on top of a foam pad
| which in turn is placed on top of a heat pipe, so this area gets
| particularly hot under load. The layers are often made from PET,
| which starts softening anywhere in the range of 65-87C - so
| easily within range of a laptop heat pipe.
|
| By mashing the key I was hoping to detach the layers and
| apparently it worked.
|
| That being said for gaming I use an external keyboard now,
| because the one built-in is made by an external supplier and I
| don't think they'll start using a more heat-resistant material
| anytime soon.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| Apple is disgusting from that standpoint. I have my MacBook Air
| M1's screen break overnight (the "bendgate"), without any reason,
| after 13 months. I didn't buy the extended two years warranty. I
| was one-month off warranty. On a MacBook Air M1 I paid something
| like 1000 EUR VAT included (don't remember the exact price but in
| that ballpark), they were asking 700 EUR to fix the screen.
|
| I still just ordered a MacMini M4 (I know the M5 is coming but
| we've got something like 20 computers at home, including servers,
| NUCs, laptops, desktop, etc. so I may not mind buying a M5).
|
| Still... Apple, from the bottom of my heart: FUCK YOU.
| koinedad wrote:
| I use right command + HJKL with karabiner and use it way too
| much, typing on someone else's keyboard really throws me off but
| it's great for my daily usage
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