[HN Gopher] Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for
       crimes in ND
        
       Author : ourmandave
       Score  : 314 points
       Date   : 2026-03-29 14:20 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | jqpabc123 wrote:
       | AI is a liability issue waiting to happen. And this is just
       | another example.
        
         | garyfirestorm wrote:
         | It's a tool. Used incorrectly will lead to errors. Just like a
         | hammer, used incorrectly could hit the users finger.
        
           | happytoexplain wrote:
           | There is enormous variability in how hard a tool is to use
           | correctly, how likely it is to go wrong, and how severe the
           | consequences are. AI has a wide range on all those variables
           | because its use cases vary so widely compared to a hammer.
           | 
           | The use case here is police facial recognition. Not hitting
           | nails. The parent wasn't saying "AI is a liability" with no
           | context.
        
             | mikkupikku wrote:
             | When somebody uses a tool to hurt somebody, they need to be
             | held accountable. If I smack you with a hammer, that needs
             | to be prosecuted. Using AI is no different.
             | 
             | The problem here is incidental to the tool; it was done by
             | the cops and therefore nobody will be held accountable.
        
               | tovej wrote:
               | Systems are also a tool. Whoever institutes and helps
               | build the system that systematically results in harm is
               | also responsible.
               | 
               | That would be the vendors, the system planners, and the
               | institutions that greenlit this. It would also include
               | the larger financial tech circle that is trying to drive
               | large scale AI adoption. Like Peter Thiel, who sees
               | technology as an "alternative to politics". I.e. a way to
               | circumvent democracy [1]
               | 
               | [1] https://stavroulapabst.substack.com/p/techxgeopolitic
               | s-18-te...
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | Nonsense. The manufacturer, distributor, and vendor of a
               | hammer are not liable for its misuse. We already
               | litigated and then legislated this regarding guns in the
               | US.
               | 
               | As much as I detest Clearview and Thiel the fault for
               | this incident falls squarely on the justice system.
        
           | suzzer99 wrote:
           | Dynamite is a tool. But we don't hand it out to anyone who
           | wants to play with it.
        
             | mikkupikku wrote:
             | We used to until quite recently. Anybody could buy dynamite
             | at the hardware store. We had to end this because of
             | criminals using it to hurt people.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | Look for AI to follow a similar trajectory over time.
        
               | mikkupikku wrote:
               | Yes, regulation is inevitable.
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Regulation is impossible. The AI barons literally control
               | the federal government, so not even state regulations get
               | tried.
        
               | GaryBluto wrote:
               | Impossible at this point. You cannot download dynamite.
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Except this time the criminals are police.
        
               | AngryData wrote:
               | They are far more often than anyone wants to admit.
               | That's how we got 25% of the world's prison population.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | AFAIK the actual cause for our high incarceration rate is
               | that we have longer sentences. The conviction rate, for
               | example, as compared to the UK is similar.
        
               | suzzer99 wrote:
               | I admit I was surprised to see you could buy dynamite in
               | a hardware store until 1970.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | AI feels closer to a firearm than a hammer when accessing law
           | enforcement's ability to quickly do massive, unrecoverable
           | harm.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | _Used incorrectly will lead to errors._
           | 
           | Only one small little problem --- there is no way to tell if
           | you are using it "correctly".
           | 
           | The only way to be sure is to not use it.
           | 
           | Using it basically boils down to, "Do you feel lucky?".
           | 
           | The Fargo police didn't get lucky in this case. And now the
           | liability kicks in.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Now the "qualified" immunity kicks in.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | We will find out. But relying on AI is likely to cost the
               | city of Fargo in one way or another. They say they have
               | already stopped using AI and returned to good old
               | fashioned human investigation.
               | 
               | https://www.lawlegalhub.com/how-much-is-a-wrongful-
               | arrest-la...
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | Some basic investigatory police work (the kind they did
             | before AI) would have revealed the mistake before an
             | innocent woman's life was destroyed.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | Yes. But doing the investigation negates much of the
               | incentive for using AI.
               | 
               | Look for similar to play out elsewhere --- using
               | unreliable tools for decision making is not a good,
               | responsible business plan. And lawyers are just waiting
               | to press the point.
        
               | bornfreddy wrote:
               | AI can provide leads. Someone still needs to verify them
               | and decide.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | Generating and verifying bad leads costs money. Not
               | verifying bad leads can cost much more.
               | 
               | At some point, you have to decide if wasting good money
               | on bad intel makes sense.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | In this case it sounds as though AI could have been used
               | to generate preliminary leads. When someone calls a tip
               | line with information, police don't just take their word
               | for it, they investigate it. They know that tips they
               | receive may be incorrect. They should have done the exact
               | same here, but they didn't.
               | 
               | I'm very opposed to AI in general, but this one is
               | clearly human failure.
               | 
               | The noteworthy AI angle is the undeserved credence police
               | gave to AI information. But that is ultimately their
               | failure; they should be investigating all information
               | they receive.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | _...but this one is clearly human failure._
               | 
               | Absolutely.
               | 
               | The failure starts with tool vendors who market these
               | statistical/probabilistic pattern searchers as
               | "intelligent". The Fargo police failed to fully evaluate
               | these marketing claims before applying them to their
               | work.
               | 
               | So in the same way that the failure rolled down hill,
               | liability needs to roll back up.
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | The article says that the Fargo police claimed to have
               | done "additional investigative steps independent of AI".
               | (Perhaps they're lying, or did a poor job because they
               | thought the extra steps were a formality.)
        
             | zephen wrote:
             | Look, I'm generally considered AI's most vociferous
             | detractor.
             | 
             | But...
             | 
             | > there is no way to tell if you are using it "correctly".
             | 
             | This simply isn't true, at least in cases like this.
             | 
             | I know common sense isn't really all that common, but why
             | would you give more credence to an untested tool than an
             | untested crack-addled human informant?
             | 
             | The entire point of the informant, or the AI in this
             | instance, is to generate _leads._ Which subsequently need
             | to be checked.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | There is no "correct" way to use AI in order to avoid bad
               | results. The only prudent approach is to assume all
               | results are bad until proven otherwise.
               | 
               | But this approach negates much of the incentive to pay
               | for questionable results.
        
               | zephen wrote:
               | > The only prudent approach is to assume all results are
               | bad until proven otherwise.
               | 
               | As is true with results from people.
               | 
               | > But this approach negates much of the incentive to pay
               | for questionable results.
               | 
               | I'm not sure that follows. Even the crack-addled human
               | informant has always been paid for questionable results.
        
           | tgv wrote:
           | This tool, however, is specifically built for mass
           | surveillance. It serves no other purpose. The tool is broken,
           | and everybody knows it. The tool makers are at least as
           | guilty as those who use it.
        
             | cyanydeez wrote:
             | The tool, like Google search, is likely biased towards
             | returning results regardless of confidence.
        
             | fc417fc802 wrote:
             | The tool is unethical, not broken. And unfortunately
             | remains legal for the time being. To that end it's a social
             | or political problem that can be fixed.
        
           | MattDaEskimo wrote:
           | What kind of outcome results from misuse? Clearly a hammer's
           | misuse has very little in common with a global, hivemind
           | network used in high-stake campaigns.
           | 
           | Now, if I misused a hammer and it hurt everyone's thumb in my
           | country, then maybe what you said would have some merit.
           | 
           | Otherwise, I'd say it's an extremely lazy argument
        
           | hrimfaxi wrote:
           | Unlike hammers people preface things with "claude says", etc.
           | I never see that kind of distancing with tools that aren't
           | AI.
        
         | gtowey wrote:
         | It's the opposite, it's absolution from liability. "The AI did
         | it" is the ultimate excuse to avoid accepting responsibility
         | and consequences.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | Courts are already refusing to accept this excuse.
           | 
           | https://pub.towardsai.net/the-air-gapped-chronicles-the-
           | cour...
        
             | gtowey wrote:
             | Good to know it's not a fait accompli yet, but I wont be
             | surprised to see corporations pushing for this hard.
        
           | Hizonner wrote:
           | ... which is why the institutions that assign responsibility
           | and consequences need to make it really clear that excuse
           | won't fly. With illustrative examples.
        
       | mitchbob wrote:
       | Earlier discussion (405 comments):
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47356968
        
       | oopsiremembered wrote:
       | Money quote from someone quoted in the article:
       | 
       | "[I]t's not just a technology problem, it's a technology and
       | people problem."
       | 
       | I can't. I just can't.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | I've been hearing "it's not just... it's a" touted as an AI
         | sign recently, personally I think it's an AI sign because it's
         | a human thinking shortcut sign, and AI copies it, but it would
         | be funny if AI wrote the article and then hallucinated this
         | specific money quote.
        
           | oopsiremembered wrote:
           | I doubt this happened here, but FWIW, AI does have a habit of
           | "cleaning up" (read: hallucinating) interview transcript
           | quotes if you ask it to go through a transcript and pull
           | quotes. You have to prompt AI very specifically to get it to
           | not "clean up" the quotes when you ask it to do that task.
        
             | b112 wrote:
             | And why not?
             | 
             | If you look at examples of people quoting on the internet,
             | lots are out of context, paraphrased, or made up.
             | 
             | AI is just mimicking what it has seen.
        
       | firefoxd wrote:
       | Without even looking at the AI part, I have a single question:
       | Did anybody investigate? That's it.
       | 
       | Whether it's AI that flagged her, or a witness who saw her, or
       | her IP address appeared on the logs. Did anybody bothered to ask
       | her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm.
       | But that's not what happened, they saw the data and said "we got
       | her".
       | 
       | But this is the worst part of the story:
       | 
       | > And after her ordeal, she never plans to return to the state:
       | "I'm just glad it's over," she told WDAY. "I'll never go back to
       | North Dakota."
       | 
       | That's the lesson? Never go back to North Dakota. No, challenge
       | the entire system. A few years back it was a kid accused of
       | shoplifting [0]. Then a man dragged while his family was crying
       | [1]. Unless we fight back, we are all guilty until cleared.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/29/apple_sis_lawsuit/
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23628394
        
         | bl4ckneon wrote:
         | I think you missed many important points.
         | 
         | "The trauma, loss of liberty, and reputational damage cannot be
         | easily fixed," Lipps' lawyers told CNN in an email.
         | 
         | That sounds a LOT like a statement you make for before suing
         | for damages, not to mention they literally say "Her lawyers are
         | exploring civil rights claims but have yet to file a lawsuit,
         | they said."
         | 
         | This lady probably just wants to go back to normal life and get
         | some money for the hell they put her in. She has never been on
         | a airplane before, I doubt she is going to take on the entire
         | system like you suggest. Easier said than done to "challenge
         | the entire system", what does that even mean exactly?
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | It was worse than that, the reporting from an earlier
           | story[0]                 ...Unable to pay her bills from
           | jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog.
           | 
           | There is not a jury in the country that will side against the
           | woman. I am not even sure who will make the best pop culture
           | mashup - John Wick or a country song writer?
           | 
           | (Also, what happened to journalism - no Oxford comma?)
           | 
           | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47356968
        
             | frankharv wrote:
             | Indeed let out on Christmas Eve with no money 1000 miles
             | from your homeland.
             | 
             | Where your home was lost to foreclosure because one JUDGE
             | did not look at the paperwork.
             | 
             | There should be a way to personally sue somebody when they
             | don't do their job. Protecting the innocent. The JUDGE
             | failed badly here.
             | 
             | Flimsy evidence would mean no warrant. Do your basic
             | investigation please... Rubberstamping JUDGE caused this.
             | 
             | Why are they not named? Like they are a spectator. Infact
             | they are the cause.
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | TBF isn't it rather unreasonable that our system permits
               | your home to be foreclosed while you're detained prior to
               | a hearing?
               | 
               | Also rather unreasonable to arrest someone who is clearly
               | neither violent nor a flight risk. You could literally
               | hold the trial via video conference at that point and
               | there would be no downside.
        
             | cguess wrote:
             | As an aside AP Style is not use an Oxford comma, and that's
             | been the rule for 50+ years
             | https://www.prnewsonline.com/explainer-how-to-use-oxford-
             | com...
        
               | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
               | This is upsetting.
        
               | erikerikson wrote:
               | Yes, finding out how badly wrong you were is never fun.
               | Of course the lack of ubiquitous Oxford comma use is
               | itself and separately displeasing.
        
               | krferriter wrote:
               | AP Style is simply wrong on this, then.
        
             | segmondy wrote:
             | You have more faith in the country than I do.
        
             | redeeman wrote:
             | anyone in the chain of responsibility should be punished so
             | severely that they will be still crying about it in 2030
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | The real problem here is she'll get money, who knows how
           | much, but that ultimately does nothing to actually address
           | the problems in the system.
           | 
           | Effectively it just raises taxes to cover the cost of these
           | failed prosecutions.
           | 
           | Everytime one of these cases happens, a cop and a prosecutor
           | should be out of a job permanently. Possibly even jailed. The
           | false arrest should lose the cop their job and get them
           | blacklisted, the prosecution should lose the prosecutor's
           | right to practice law.
           | 
           | And if the police union doesn't like that and decides to
           | strike, every one of those cops should simply be fired. Much
           | like we did to the ATC. We'd be better off hiring untrained
           | civilians as cops than to keep propping up this system of
           | warrior cops abusing the citizens.
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | Yes, of course someone should have investigated, but the larger
         | point here is that people don't because they are being sold a
         | false narrative that AI is infallible and can do anything.
         | 
         | We could sit here all day arguing "you should always validate
         | the results", but even on HN there are people loudly advocating
         | that you don't need to.
        
           | dpkirchner wrote:
           | We can barely convince powers thar be that eye-witness
           | testimony is unreliable, after all.
        
           | harshreality wrote:
           | Where are you seeing people being told that AI is infallible?
           | AI is being hyped to the moon, but "infallible" is not one of
           | the claims.
           | 
           | To the extent people trust AI to be infallible, it's just
           | laziness and rapport (AI is rarely if ever rude without
           | prompting, nor does it criticize extensive question-asking as
           | many humans would, it's the quintessential _enabler_ [1])
           | that causes people to assume that because it's useful and
           | helpful for so many things, it'll be right about everything.
           | 
           | The models all have disclaimers that state the inverse.
           | People just gradually lose sight of that.
           | 
           | [1] This might be the nature of LLMs, or it might be by
           | design, similar to social media slop driving engagement. It's
           | in AI companies' interest to have people buying subscriptions
           | to talk with AIs more. If AI goes meta and critiques the user
           | (except in more serious cases like harm to self or others, or
           | specific kinds of cultural wrongthink), that's bad for
           | business.
        
             | jmalicki wrote:
             | > Where are you seeing people being told that AI is
             | infallible? AI is being hyped to the moon, but "infallible"
             | is not one of the claims.
             | 
             | I see all kinds of people being told that AI-based AI
             | detection software used for detecting AI in writing is
             | infallible!
             | 
             | You want to make sure people aren't using fallible AI? Use
             | our AI to detect AI? What could possibly go wrong.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Where did you see this claim about AI-based AI detection?
        
             | latexr wrote:
             | > To the extent people trust AI to be infallible, it's just
             | laziness and rapport (...) that causes people to assume
             | that because it's useful and helpful for so many things,
             | it'll be right about everything.
             | 
             | Why it happens is secondary to the fact that it does.
             | 
             | > The models all have disclaimers that state the inverse.
             | People just gradually lose sight of that.
             | 
             | Those disclaimers are barely effective (if at all), and
             | everyone knows that. Including the ones putting them there.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj4aRhHJOWU
        
           | HDBaseT wrote:
           | I don't think people on HN think "AI is infallible", I think
           | people on HN believe HN is sufficient enough for "most
           | tasks". In the context of HN "most tasks" refers to
           | programming tasks, not arresting and jailing people tasks.
           | 
           | You should always validate the results, but there is an
           | inherint difference between an AI generated tool for personal
           | use and a tool which could be used to destroy someones life.
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | IANAL but AFAIK custodial interrogation triggers Miranda,
         | lawyers, and those awful awful civil liberties we're trying to
         | get rid of.
         | 
         | Better just to apply Musk or Altman software to the problem and
         | avoid it entirely.
        
         | rcvassallo83 wrote:
         | The thing about the legal system is there's no incentive to
         | investigate to find the truth.
         | 
         | The incentive is to prosecte and prove the charges.
         | 
         | Speaking from the experience of being falsely accused after
         | calling 911 to stop a drunk woman from driving.
         | 
         | The narrative they "investigated" was so obviously false,
         | bodycam evidence directly contradicted multiple key facts.
         | Officials are interested only seeking to prove the case.
         | Thankfully the jury came to the right verdict.
        
           | hnuser123456 wrote:
           | I would absolutely never call the police on a woman. Simply
           | walk far away and let her be someone else's problem.
        
           | fc417fc802 wrote:
           | > The thing about the legal system is there's no incentive to
           | investigate to find the truth.
           | 
           | The truth is much more complicated and involves politics. For
           | example Seattle (and possibly other cities?) enacted a law
           | that involves paying damages for being wrong in the event of
           | bringing certain types of charges. But that has resulted in
           | some widely publicized examples where the prosecutor erred by
           | being overly cautious.
        
           | retrochameleon wrote:
           | There needs to be consequences for shitty, procedure-ignoring
           | police work. Period.
           | 
           | Minimum 1 year of jail time for grossly wrongful arrests that
           | could be avoided with standard procedure or investigation
           | tactics that were not applied.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > Whether it's AI that flagged her
         | 
         | It absolutely was. There's no question of this. Now we need to
         | ask how was the system marketed, what did the police pay for
         | it, how were they trained to use it?
         | 
         | > anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of
         | july 10th between 3 and 4pm.
         | 
         | Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value. Those
         | statements probably won't even be admissible in court without
         | other supporting facts entered in first.
         | 
         | > we are all guilty until cleared.
         | 
         | This is not at a phenomenon that started with AI. If you
         | scratch the surface, even slightly, you'll find that this is a
         | common strategy used against defendants who are perceived as
         | not being financially or logistically capable of defending
         | themselves.
         | 
         | We have a private prison industry. The line between these two
         | outcomes is very short.
        
           | LocalH wrote:
           | >Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value.
           | 
           | How is that hearsay if she's directly testifying to her own
           | whereabouts?
           | 
           | Hearsay would be if someone _else_ was testifying  "she was
           | in X location on july 10th between 3 and 4pm", _without_ the
           | accused being available for cross
        
             | Borealid wrote:
             | No!
             | 
             | "I was at the library" is firsthand testimony.
             | 
             | "I saw her at the library" is firsthand testimony.
             | 
             | "I saw her library card in her pocket" is firsthand
             | testimony.
             | 
             | "She was at the library - Bob told me so" is hearsay. Just
             | look at the word - "hear say". Hearsay is testifying about
             | events where your knowledge does not come from your own
             | firsthand observations of the event itself.
        
           | jmye wrote:
           | > Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value.
           | Those statements probably won't even be admissible in court
           | without other supporting facts entered in first.
           | 
           | I just want to understand your argument: you believe that any
           | alibi provided is hearsay, and has no legal value, and that
           | they can't even take the statement in order to validate it?
           | That's your position?
        
       | tlogan wrote:
       | This is a weak or misleading story about AI.
       | 
       | First, the detective used the FaceSketchID system, which has been
       | around since around 2014. It is not new or uniquely tied to
       | modern AI.
       | 
       | Second, the system only suggests possible matches. It is still up
       | to the detective to investigate further and decide whether to
       | pursue charges. And then it is up to court to issue the warrant.
       | 
       | The real question is why she was held in jail for four months.
       | That is the part that I do not understand. My understanding is
       | that there is 30-day limit (the requesting state must pick up the
       | defendant within 30 day). Regarding the individual involved,
       | Angela Lipps, she has reportedly been arrested before, so it is
       | possible she was on parole. So maybe they were holding her
       | because of that?
       | 
       | Can someone clarify how that process works?
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | In the US there are no consequences for people in power failing
         | to follow procedures, laws or regulations - except for being
         | told to stop doing whatever illegal thing they're doing, and
         | possibly getting sued way down the line, which gets paid by
         | taxpayers.
        
           | tlogan wrote:
           | From reading more into the case, it seems the issue may be
           | related to how her lawyer handled the case.
           | 
           | They probably did "identity challenge" arguing that she is
           | not the right person. But from Tennessee's perspective, she
           | was considered the correct person to be arrested, so there
           | was no "mistaken identity" in their system. In other words,
           | North Dakota Wanted person x and here is person x.
           | 
           | Once a judge in North Dakota reviewed the full evidence (and
           | found that person they issued warrant for arrest is not one
           | they want), the case was dismissed.
        
             | frankharv wrote:
             | Yes but a judge issued the warrant in the first place.
             | 
             | Cops did not do a proper investigation and the judge green-
             | lighted it.
             | 
             | It is all on the JUDGE or possibly a magistrate who
             | approved a faulty warrant.
             | 
             | The judge failed the poor woman. FIRE him.
             | 
             | Then sue Clearview for big bucks.
        
               | contrast wrote:
               | what's with the weird obsession all over the thread that
               | it is the JUDGE who is the only person at fault here?
        
               | lovich wrote:
               | It's the same poster, I assumed they were ai at first but
               | the account is from 2017.
               | 
               | Some people are just weird
        
               | wl wrote:
               | Especially considering the judge is the only person
               | involved in this who is completely immune from being
               | sued.
        
               | ciupicri wrote:
               | Because the police or the prosecutor or whatever can ask
               | for whatever they want, but it's up to the judge to
               | refuse their stupid claims. Though the others should get
               | some blame too.
        
               | tlogan wrote:
               | The judge likely issued the warrant based on the
               | detective's sworn testimony. In most cases, a judge does
               | not have the ability or detailed knowledge to
               | independently verify whether the detective completed all
               | necessary checks.
               | 
               | This situation likely resulted from either sloppy
               | investigative work or an honest mistake: the detective
               | believed her booking photo matched the individual
               | captured on camera.
               | 
               | Her booking photo from a prior arrest can be found here:
               | https://mugshots.com/US-States/Tennessee/Carter-County-
               | TN/An...
               | 
               | Do we have recording of the suspect they used for the
               | match?
        
               | natebc wrote:
               | There's a screenshot from a security camera with the
               | _actual_ suspect in the article that was posted to HN
               | last week.
               | 
               | https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/north-dakota/ai-
               | error-...
        
           | AnthonyMouse wrote:
           | [deleted]
        
             | everforward wrote:
             | This isn't how it works, you can invoke your right to a
             | speedy trial at any point you want. You can spend 2 months
             | waiting and then invoke it if you want.
             | 
             | The timer starts from when you invoke it, though.
             | 
             | The 2 issues, which she may be caught in, are that it's
             | "speedy" from the perspective of a court, and that it
             | really means "free from undue delays".
             | 
             | There is no general definition of a speedy trial, but I
             | think the shortest period any state defines is a month
             | (with some states considering several months to still be
             | "speedy").
             | 
             | A trial can still be speedy even past that window if the
             | prosecution can make a case that they genuinely need more
             | time (like waiting for lab tests to come back).
             | 
             | It's basically only ever not speedy if the prosecution is
             | just not doing anything.
        
             | gamblor956 wrote:
             | _You get charged with something and if you want to have the
             | trial right now, before you have any idea what 's going on,
             | then you can insist, which basically nobody does because
             | it's pretty crazy to go in blind_
             | 
             | Actually most criminal defense attorneys recommend not
             | waiving your speedy trial rights. Yes, the defense goes in
             | blind. But so does the prosecution, and they're the ones
             | that have to make a case.
             | 
             | The usual result for defendants that don't waive their
             | speedy trial rights is an acquittal if the case goes to
             | trial (between 50-60%), which doesn't sound like a lot but
             | prosecutors are expected to win >90% of their trials.
             | Additionally, in many counties they don't have sufficient
             | courtrooms to handle all the criminal trials within the
             | speedy trial timeframe, so if the trial date comes and a
             | courtroom is not available the case is dismissed _with
             | prejudice_. Nonviolent misdeameanors are the lowest
             | priority for a courtroom (and by that I mean even family
             | law cases have priority over nonviolent misdos in most
             | counties), so those cases are frequently dismissed a day or
             | two before the trial date. Consequently, most prosecutors
             | will offer better and better plea bargains as the trial
             | date approaches.
             | 
             | This is even more true for murders, which is why murder
             | suspects don't usually get charged for a year or two after
             | the crime.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | Apparently I set up a unit test for Cunningham's Law
               | today.
        
         | strictnein wrote:
         | I wish I could find the link, but I believe she was in jail on
         | parole violation, unrelated to anything that the "AI" flagged
         | her on.
        
           | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
           | She was not
           | 
           | Source: I live in Fargo and have been following this story
           | closely. Everyone here is pissed
        
             | frankharv wrote:
             | Thanks for clarifying.
             | 
             | I wonder who is slandering her more... WOW
             | 
             | Maybe the citys insurance carrier hired a FIRM...
             | 
             | They will be taking a hit.
        
           | frankharv wrote:
           | That is the first I have heard of that. A small unexplained
           | blurb in this article. Already in jail on parole violation..
           | 
           | Maybe she objected to the extradition order without good
           | counsel.
           | 
           | "I aint never been to N.Dakota". She found out the hard way
           | how the law works..
           | 
           | What about the banks being hit. Surely they have good
           | cameras. This was bad mojo. I would think a Wells Fargo/BoA
           | has a unit for this stuff.
           | 
           | Finincial crimes handled like this. The banks will be sued
           | too I suspect.. Deep pockets settle out.
        
           | Supermancho wrote:
           | Her picture was used as part of a fake id card, in the
           | commission of a crime. The fuzzy camera footage looked like
           | her (from stills I've seen) and her picture was on the fake
           | ID. Those 2 circumstantial items were, apparently, enough to
           | have a warrant issued.
           | 
           | They picked her up in TN and held her for 4 months, even
           | after:
           | 
           | The ND police knew the ID was fake and the person using it
           | was not her. The ND police knew she had been in TN before,
           | during, and after the crime.
           | 
           | She is still technically a suspect, even after all of this
           | has come out.
        
             | tlogan wrote:
             | Ok. The mistake was made by North Dakota police (and they
             | blame AI - the AI just gave them a possible match.
             | Whatever.).
             | 
             | What I still do not understand is why she spent nearly six
             | months in a Tennessee jail. That part remains unclear and
             | needs further explanation.
        
               | p_l wrote:
               | From the first time the story surfaced, for spurious
               | reasons[1] she was booked as fugitive, and that made it
               | so that there was "no need" for normal timeframe of
               | hearing.
               | 
               | [1] The reason being that she was found in Tennessee
               | while being searched for a crime in another state, thus
               | allowing them to treat it as interstate fugitive from a
               | crime scene
        
         | georgemcbay wrote:
         | > It is still up to the detective to investigate further and
         | decide whether to pursue charges. And then it is up to court to
         | issue the warrant.
         | 
         | This is how it should work, but I still think it is important
         | to discuss these failures in the context of AI risks.
         | 
         | One of the largest real-world dangers of AI (as we define that
         | now) is that it is often confidently wrong and this is a
         | terrible situation when it comes to human factors.
         | 
         | A lot of people are wired in such a way that perceived
         | confidence hacks right through their amygdala and they
         | immediately default to trust, no matter how unwarranted.
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | > The real question is why she was held in jail for four
         | months. That is the part that I do not understand. My
         | understanding is that there is 30-day limit (the requesting
         | state must pick up the defendant within 30 day). Regarding the
         | individual involved, Angela Lipps, she has reportedly been
         | arrested before, so it is possible she was on parole. So maybe
         | they were holding her because of that?
         | 
         | As the article gestures towards, challenging the extradition
         | can greatly extend the timeline, from 30 days after the arrest
         | to 90 days after a formal identity hearing. Which isn't fair
         | and isn't intuitive, but is unfortunately a long-standing part
         | of the system. (Even worse, this kind of mistaken identity _can
         | 't_ be challenged in an extradition hearing; the question isn't
         | whether she's the person who committed the crime but whether
         | she's the person identified in the warrant.)
        
           | tlogan wrote:
           | That is my assumption. I assume who ever was representing her
           | made a mistake and challenged the warrant and that caused
           | delay in the extradition.
        
       | garethsprice wrote:
       | The vendor they used, Clearview AI, does not allow you to request
       | data deletion unless you live in one of the half-dozen states
       | that legally mandate it.
       | 
       | https://www.clearview.ai/privacy-and-requests
       | 
       | I have suddenly becomes very interested in New York's S1422
       | Biometric Privacy Act.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Sadly this is really the only tool we have right now. Just have
         | to keep spamming them with delete requests because once they
         | delete it'll end up back in their database eventually.
        
         | guelo wrote:
         | To get your data deleted in the states that require it you have
         | to submit a photo of yourself which I really don't want to do
         | for a sketchy company with ties to evil billionaire Peter
         | Thiel.
        
         | KomoD wrote:
         | related https://noyb.eu/en/criminal-complaint-against-facial-
         | recogni...
        
         | clcaev wrote:
         | For IL residents the policy requires collection and retention
         | of your biomarkers. Presumably there is a law enforcement
         | exclusion implicitly or explicitly, eg search via
         | administrative warrant.
        
       | giardini wrote:
       | This has been posted at least twice before on HN.
        
       | indigodaddy wrote:
       | A lot of dumb shit happens in this arena, where if you had just
       | one smart cop, it could have been prevented. Here's one from
       | 2023:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/lPUBXN2Fd_E
        
       | mememememememo wrote:
       | Wow thought the bar for probable cause for an arrest warrant
       | would be much higher. Especially to drag soneone from another
       | state.
        
       | internetguy wrote:
       | Insane. Not even an apology. And they ask why we should respect
       | the police.
        
       | lucasfin000 wrote:
       | The actual scariest part isn't that the AI got it wrong... it's
       | that nobody felt the need to verify the AI. A tip from an
       | anonymous caller can get investigated and found out if its true
       | or not, and a match from a facial recognition system apparently
       | does not. People haven't built better investigative tools they've
       | just built better ways to skip around the investigation.
        
       | advisedwang wrote:
       | For me the worst thing in this case is that a JUDGE signed off on
       | an arrest warrant with only a clearview match linking Ms Lipps to
       | the crime.
       | 
       | A judge and the warrant process are supposed to be the safeguard
       | against police doing shady stuff (like relying on an AI hit to
       | decide who commit a crime). But if the judges can't be
       | bothered...
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | So cops used AI to attempt to investigate a crime. But, there was
       | no crime - the arrest was wrong. Why can cops excuse themselves
       | here for delegating their responsibilities (protecting society,
       | allegedly that is) onto software? AI may also be written by some
       | corporations to "tweak" this or that, see this foreign-looking
       | guy being more likely to be AI-investigated. This is like the
       | movie Minority Report - but stupid. IMO the courts should
       | conclude that cops should not be allowed to use AI without having
       | a prior, independently verified objective reasoning for any
       | investigation. This mass sniffing that is currently going on is
       | very clearly illegal. The current orange guy does not care about
       | the law; see flock cameras aka spy cameras employed by the
       | government on all car drivers at all times.
        
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