[HN Gopher] Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel ...
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       Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing
        
       Author : measurablefunc
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2026-03-27 20:51 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | mlinhares wrote:
       | Hope that gets Europe to invest in renewables and leave oil
       | behind.
        
         | rwyinuse wrote:
         | I agree. Ironically ones complaining the loudest about fuel
         | prices are be far-right populists, who tend to be against
         | renewables.
        
         | callamdelaney wrote:
         | Yeah as if Europe doesn't have Oil it isn't exploiting because
         | of renewable legislation..
        
           | argsnd wrote:
           | Europe simply does not have enough known oil reserves to put
           | a dent in current prices even if it exploited them all.
           | 
           | There may still be good arguments to do so anyway, such as it
           | being less carbon intensive than importing oil, but there is
           | absolutely no magic lever we can pull that would fix this
           | problem that we're just not pulling due to renewables
           | legislation.
        
             | calvinmorrison wrote:
             | Sure just send the continental german army straight for the
             | oil fields, worked out great last time.
        
             | callamdelaney wrote:
             | Britain could start extracting oil from its European fields
             | instead of just buying the same oil and gas from Denmark.
             | Sanctions could be lifted on Russian oil. Duties could be
             | dropped. There are levers.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | How do you put renewables into the petrol tank?
        
         | kypro wrote:
         | Hasn't Germany and the UK been investing in renewables for
         | years now? They must be feeling pretty happy about that
         | decision right now unlike oil obsessed countries like the US.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | For electricity generation, the UK is currently generating
           | 50% via renewables. It goes up and down each day of course,
           | storage is _not_ a solved problem yet.
           | 
           | Nice visualisations of the current status:
           | https://grid.iamkate.com/
           | 
           | Electricity is only a part of the whole energy sector, but
           | it's relevant to this thread about EVs.
        
           | zejn wrote:
           | Yes, but it is not enough. It helps a lot when sunny, and
           | weekend mid-day gross market prices for electricity hover
           | just above zero, but there's not enough batteries,
           | flexibility, and other renewables to avoid price spikes in
           | the morning and evening peak, when hydro and gas plants are
           | still covering a lot.
        
           | ZeroGravitas wrote:
           | Partly, though both have had periods of right wing
           | governments trying to make this problem worse to benefit
           | their oil and gas industry backers.
           | 
           | And now the same people are saying that the answer is more
           | oil and gas.
        
         | drnick1 wrote:
         | Electric cars aren't cheap, and electricity prices are very
         | high in Europe.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | BYD EVs are affordable. Electricity will get cheaper with
           | more renewables, oil will not.
        
             | haunter wrote:
             | Define affordable. A EUR40k Seal is anything but
             | affordable. Eastern Europe (and I don't put Slovenia in
             | this case here, they are much closer to Western Europe in
             | every sense) will not mass change to EVs suddenly when
             | everyone is shopping for 10 years old diesels from Western
             | Europe for maximum EUR10k
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Cheaper than the total cost of ownership of a combustion
               | vehicle at $150-$200/barrel for prolonged periods of
               | time.
               | 
               |  _Are We Approaching an Unprecedented Energy Crisis?_ -
               | https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-energy/iran-
               | war-... - March 26th, 2026
               | 
               |  _France confirms oil crisis, says 30-40 percent of Gulf
               | energy infrastructure destroyed_ -
               | https://www.france24.com/en/france-confirms-oil-crisis-
               | says-... - March 25th, 2026
               | 
               |  _Even the best-case scenario for energy markets is
               | disastrous_ - https://www.economist.com/finance-and-
               | economics/2026/03/22/e... | https://archive.today/5OhRI -
               | March 22nd, 2026
        
               | 7952 wrote:
               | New cars have questionable affordability for most people.
               | Particularly when you factor in dubious design choices
               | and expensive marketing. Cars and driving are expensive.
               | If that was a barrier there wouldn't be many people on
               | the road.
               | 
               | Also, the Electric polo is supposed to be released at
               | around 25k Euros. Given the lower running costs that
               | seems like a good deal relative to legacy designs. For
               | all those people will to spend 40k on a car you could put
               | the money into solar panels instead.
        
               | Lio wrote:
               | If you think the Seal isn't affordable then don't buy
               | one.
               | 
               | You can buy a brand new Dacia Spring for only PS12,240.
               | Personally I don't think it's a great car but it's
               | certainly doesn't cost 40K.
               | 
               | If it were my money I'd spend a bit more on either a used
               | Jag ePace or a Renault 5 but some people prefer new cars
               | I guess.
        
           | zejn wrote:
           | Not true. No new car is cheap, and electricity is now cheaper
           | than gas or diesel.
        
         | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
         | Europe has no (meaningful amounts of economically viable to
         | extract) lithium either.
        
           | philipkglass wrote:
           | "Lithium mining commences in Finland"
           | 
           | https://www.electrive.com/2026/02/12/lithium-mining-
           | commence...
           | 
           |  _This week, the first spodumene vein was blasted from the
           | rock at the open-pit mine in western Finland, marking the
           | occasion with a ceremonial event attended by invited guests
           | and media._
        
           | helsinkiandrew wrote:
           | Europe has massive lithium reserves in Germany, Serbia,
           | Portugal and ukraine but perhaps more importantly it also has
           | friendly relations with other countries with reserves
        
             | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
             | if those reserves were _economically viable_ to extract,
             | they would be already being extracted.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | Eh, the war in Ukraine has kind of proven that the Europeans
         | are not all that capable of action. There has been an enormous
         | incentive to have been getting rid of oil dependency for 4
         | years now.
        
           | zejn wrote:
           | The problem with getting rid of oil is that cars currently in
           | use will be usable even when over 20 years old, replacing
           | them with EVs is expensive, and the good enough and
           | economically accessible EVs are only now starting to get to
           | market.
           | 
           | It's really hard to quickly replace millions of vehicles.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Raising the price of fuel will do wonders for solving that.
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | > the war in Ukraine has kind of proven that the Europeans
           | are not all that capable of action.
           | 
           | It's revealed a fair bit about America too. And this oil
           | crisis is a fairly incredible screw up too. What did the US
           | think would happen?
        
             | strken wrote:
             | The US is a net exporter of crude oil and is positioned to
             | meet an oil crisis better than nearly anyone else. What do
             | _you_ think the US government expected from this?
        
           | leonidasrup wrote:
           | Germany has switched from one gas supplier to different gas
           | suppliers.
           | 
           | The past Vice-Chancellor Robert Habeck famously once sad:
           | "Nuclear power doesn't help us there at all," "We have a
           | heating problem or an industry problem, but not an
           | electricity problem - at least not generally throughout the
           | country."
           | 
           | https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/12/german-says-
           | nuclear...
        
         | leonidasrup wrote:
         | Europe would be better served by doing, what France did in
         | 1974.
         | 
         | "As a direct result of the 1973 oil crisis, on 6 March 1974
         | Prime Minister Pierre Messmer announced what became known as
         | the 'Messmer Plan', a hugely ambitious nuclear power program
         | aimed at generating most of France's electricity from nuclear
         | power. At the time of the oil crisis most of France's
         | electricity came from foreign oil. "
         | 
         | "Work on the first three plants, at Tricastin, Gravelines, and
         | Dampierre, started the same year and France installed 56
         | reactors over the next 15 years."
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#Messme...
        
           | mono442 wrote:
           | The way the EU forces the electricity market to operate makes
           | them completely unprofitable. Renewables are always given
           | priority in the market, which results in other power plants
           | operating at a capacity factor of 30-40%. Since nuclear power
           | plants are mostly capital expenditure-intensive, this makes
           | the electricity they produce absurdly expensive.
        
             | leonidasrup wrote:
             | Because the way how the EU electricity market operates
             | first to supply electric power are the power plants with
             | the lowest operating costs. This are usually renewables and
             | nuclear power plants. Both are capital expensive and cheap
             | in operating costs.
             | 
             | Usually the capacity factor of European nuclear reactors is
             | higher than 60%.
             | 
             | olkiluoto-3 nuclear reactor, had capacity factor 70% in the
             | year 2024: https://world-nuclear.org/nuclear-reactor-
             | database/details/o...
             | 
             | Mochovce-3 had capacity factor 74% in the year 2024:
             | https://world-nuclear.org/nuclear-reactor-
             | database/details/M...
             | 
             | In the U.S. they really try to get maximum from nuclear
             | reactors. https://world-nuclear.org/nuclear-reactor-
             | database/details/W...
        
           | ZeroGravitas wrote:
           | Sounds like a good plan unless we've invented 2 much cheaper
           | and faster to deploy methods to generate electricity.
        
             | leonidasrup wrote:
             | You probably mean 3 much cheaper and faster to deploy
             | methods to generate electricity. In Germany, Poland,
             | Balkans it's solar, wind, coal.
        
       | ajsnigrutin wrote:
       | The local farmers came with 1000l+ tanks for diesel, foreigners
       | with multiple gas cans, etc., and the local logistics couldn't
       | handle the pressure.
        
         | hirako2000 wrote:
         | Could also be that they didn't have sufficient reserve and
         | would rather blame hijackers?
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | They're blaming the lack of cisterns to transport gas from
           | storage to individual gas stations, because everyone went to
           | get gas, and some hoarded a lot of it
           | 
           | example: https://www.zurnal24.si/slovenija/bralec-v-soku-
           | mirne-vesti-...
           | 
           | I mean... we also have a huge factory making toilet paper
           | here, and we had the same toilet paper crisis during covid...
           | everyone suddenly needed 10 packs of toilet paper for some
           | reason.
        
             | trinix912 wrote:
             | Yes. When people saw that some stations were out of it
             | everyone and their mom brought out their old beaters and
             | canisters and refilled those too, just in case.
        
             | hirako2000 wrote:
             | Rest assured the toilet papers fiasco didn't only affect
             | this corner of the world.
        
         | margalabargala wrote:
         | Foreigners were coming to Slovenia just to buy gas? In such
         | quantities that it strained infrastructure?
         | 
         | That definitely sounds like something that happened.
         | 
         | As if "multiple gas cans" wouldn't still be well under the 50
         | liter/day limit.
        
           | edgarvaldes wrote:
           | No numbers provided, but from TFA:
           | 
           | >In Slovenia, this has resulted in so-called "fuel tourism",
           | as drivers from neighbouring countries, particularly Austria,
           | take advantage of the lower, regulated prices here.
        
             | margalabargala wrote:
             | "Drivers" doing this isn't solved by a 50 liter limit.
        
           | Detrytus wrote:
           | Well, Slovenia is a small country and has land borders with
           | many others. Imagine that gas in New Jersey was $1 per gallon
           | cheaper than in New York and Pennsylvania. I guess a lot of
           | people would drive to NJ gas stations.
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | Yep
             | 
             | And i'm saying that as a guy who drives to italy to buy
             | pasta, booze and parmesan cheese. Two bottles of jack
             | daniels and the cost of gas is covered by the price
             | difference (well... not anymore).
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | A European buying American booze? I thought that had
               | stopped?
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | Yes, mostly italians and austrians
           | 
           | https://svet24.si/novice/slovenija/gorivo-dizel-bencinski-
           | se...
           | 
           | https://sobotainfo.com/novica/lokalno/foto-video-
           | neverjetna-...
           | 
           | https://sobotainfo.com/novica/globalno/video-avstrijci-k-
           | nam...
           | 
           | https://www.prlekija-on.net/lokalno/40253/ponekod-
           | zmanjkalo-...
           | 
           | And it's not the first time:
           | 
           | https://vecer.com/slovenija/izredne-razmere-zaradi-navala-
           | na...
        
           | iammjm wrote:
           | Slovenia is a small country with 2 million people, bordering
           | countries with a total of over 82 million people. The
           | neighbors are also relatively rich countries, such as Austria
           | and Italy
        
             | margalabargala wrote:
             | Those are just statistics and don't have anything to do
             | with gas.
             | 
             | Canada is a country of 35 million bordering a rich country
             | of 350 million.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Driving over a border in Europe happens without you
               | necessarily noticing.
               | 
               | That isn't true of US borders.
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | Yes and if (1) gas in Canada were cheaper than in the US,
               | and (2) the border between the countries was completely
               | open, then you'd indeed see people going to Canada to buy
               | gas.
        
               | margalabargala wrote:
               | I'm sure there's plenty of border crossings for cheaper
               | goods.
               | 
               | I'm skeptical this happens in such numbers as to strain
               | national infrastructure.
               | 
               | Tellingly, the ration put in place applies to Slovenian
               | citizens, not just foreigners. Which should tell you
               | something about "who is being blamed" vs "what solves the
               | problem".
        
         | selimthegrim wrote:
         | Did they not have rationing based on odd/even number plates in
         | 1980s?
        
       | amarcheschi wrote:
       | Also
       | 
       | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/slovakia-die...
        
       | bhokbah wrote:
       | 50 liters per day...
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | Those limits also do exists somehow in other countries. In
         | France for example it's been a very long time some petrol
         | station say _" 150 EUR maximum"_. People are going to say it's
         | not a "real" limit but I did hit it once or twice while going
         | on vacation: 80 liters tank, near empty / car only taking 98
         | octane fuel (more expensive than 95) / ultra-pricey fuel at
         | petrol stations on the highway (so pricey it's usually cheaper
         | to just get off the highway, fill the tank in a village, and go
         | back to the highway).
         | 
         | At 2.2 EUR / liter, 75 liters is 165 EUR so I was blocked at
         | 150 EUR.
         | 
         | 50 liters I definitely cannot fill my car entirely.
        
           | kpil wrote:
           | The 150EUR is a reservation on your debit card before filling
           | up, since the banks or the station doesn't want the credit
           | risk. It's released when the actual sum is booked.
           | 
           | I think it's just what a reasonable "full tank" was a while
           | back.
           | 
           | You can just restart if you need more.
        
       | reader9274 wrote:
       | Ah yes, shared fuel resources controlled by the government.
       | Sociafluel
        
       | gpm wrote:
       | So... why is fuel 25% cheaper in Slovenia than in the
       | neighbouring country while Solvenia is simultaneously having
       | issues with running out of fuel?
       | 
       | Seems like the obvious solution is to raise prices so people stop
       | driving to your country (wasting fuel, ironically) to take your
       | cheap fuel instead of just paying for the fuel in their own
       | country. More than that it's a solution the free market would
       | actually find on its own...
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | We can barely afford it at the current price. The solution
         | would be charging foreign transit the non-regulated price but
         | that would be considered discriminatory.
        
         | SirHumphrey wrote:
         | There was an election recently and it's possible there will
         | soon be another... That's why the fuel is so cheap.
        
         | zejn wrote:
         | It's not a free market. Off-highway prices are regulated and
         | were adjusted by the executive govt branch on biweekly basis,
         | now switched to weekly. Slovenia is small and "gas tourism" is
         | common since fossil juices in neighboring countries are priced
         | higher.
         | 
         | Why not raise the prices? Sure, but then don't complain about
         | the inflation, revolt, and stoning of elected representatives.
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | This BBC article does a really poor job of explaining the
         | context of this situation or why fuel would be so much cheaper
         | in Slovenia, so I had to look around. Slovenia apparently
         | introduced fuel price regulations last year (for motorway
         | service stations; off-motorway stations have been regulated for
         | longer), as a means of reducing costs for consumers[0]. These
         | price caps were, in fact, removed a week ago[1], and prices at
         | some stations rose considerably in the aftermath, closer to the
         | Austrian prices across the border.[2] I won't speak to the
         | wisdom of the Slovenian government in trying to cap fuel
         | prices, but however well-intentioned the policy was, it didn't
         | last long in the face of a global energy crunch. [0]
         | https://sloveniatimes.com/43824/fuel-price-regulation-expand...
         | [1] https://www.brusselstimes.com/2037901/slovenia-imposes-
         | fuel-... [2] https://sloveniatimes.com/47009/prices-at-the-
         | pump-up-substa...
        
           | trinix912 wrote:
           | One thing you have to keep in mind is that in Slovenia, your
           | employer is required to cover your commuting expenses. If
           | there's no viable public transit option (which is the case
           | for most of Slovenia outside of bigger cities), they have to
           | pay you for gas per km.
           | 
           | So if the regulations were to suddenly be lifted, this would
           | have a domino effect on not only truckers but also regular
           | commuters, which would then mean companies would have to
           | compensate for the increased labour costs by raising the
           | prices of their products/services even more.
        
             | tomp wrote:
             | I'm not sure about that. AFAIK it's just _per km_ and not
             | impacted by gas price.
             | 
             | https://www.racunovodja.com/clanki.asp?clanek=232/kilometri
             | n...
        
               | trinix912 wrote:
               | Which is adjusted to compensate for inflation of fuel
               | prices every few years, so they would eventually have to
               | raise that to cover the increased prices.
        
           | tomp wrote:
           | In Slovenia, fuel prices have been regulated since, like,
           | forever.
           | 
           | A few years ago (or last year? not sure) they were
           | _deregulated_ on the highways (i.e. to make tourists pay
           | more) but then the government changed their mind (several
           | times, IIRC).
        
             | zejn wrote:
             | They were deregulated on highway for a very long time.
             | Deregulation came to off-highway in 2020 as the loss of
             | demand due to covid made the prices drop. Rusian invasion
             | of Ukraine and subsequent price hikes made the govt
             | regulate the prices again.
             | 
             | Somewhere in between, a feud started between the largest
             | provider Petrol and govt, and govt started regulating the
             | highway prices too for no good reason.
        
         | msteffen wrote:
         | Price increases tend to be regressive--the poor person who
         | needs a little fuel to get to their job is hurt more than the
         | large business that uses a lot more fuel but has much, much
         | more money overall.
         | 
         | There are things you can do to try and even things out.
         | Etherium has been considering "quadratic voting" to solve a
         | similar problem (in this case, that would look like tracking
         | consumption and increasing the unit price of fuel as you
         | consume more fuel, so that cost goes up quadratically with
         | consumption). That seems hard to enforce, though, and doesn't
         | help with foreign opportunists.
        
           | gpm wrote:
           | I'm totally ignorant as to Slovenia, but as a general comment
           | on taxation regressive price increases/externality taxes/sin
           | taxes are easily made up for by simply giving everyone a
           | fixed sum of money (that can either be gathered specifically
           | through the regressive tax or just through the normal non-
           | regressive tax pool).
           | 
           | Ethereum has the weird issue where "votes" and "money" are
           | different things and they only want to redistribute votes and
           | not money, but that's not a problem here...
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | its usually differences in taxation, they vary a lot across
         | europe
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | Fuel prices are regulated here, and we had an election right
         | now and a huge gas price hike would be bad for the current
         | government (not decided yet if they stay or go). The government
         | basically lowered the gas tax for a bit to keep prices stable
         | (they also raised the gas taxes during covid to keep the prices
         | "stable").
         | 
         | The prices will go up soon, that's why everyone is panicking
         | and filling up canisters of gas.
        
       | SirensOfTitan wrote:
       | Scanning some of the early comments here, and acting as-if the
       | oil and LNG disruptions is just a question of renewable
       | investment is naive.
       | 
       | This is the worst energy crisis in modern history, and little of
       | the western world has really started feeling the effects yet:
       | 
       | https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-energy/iran-war-...
       | 
       | Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics,
       | fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, lubricants,
       | cosmetics. Dow chemical just doubled the cost of polyethylene as
       | of April 1st. Taiwan relies on LNG for 40% of its energy
       | production and has 11 days of LNG storage--meaning it may have to
       | consider limiting industrial electricity use if things persist. I
       | will clarify based on a reply, this doesn't mean they'll run out
       | in that time, but that they have limited runway that will have
       | deleterious effects as time goes on:
       | 
       | > Yeh Tsung-kuang, a professor in the Department of Engineering
       | and System Science at National Tsing Hua University, said
       | Taiwan's maximum LNG inventory is only 11 days but that does not
       | mean the island will run out of fuel or face outages within that
       | time period.
       | 
       | Even if the Strait saw normal traffic today (and Iran is
       | incentivized and well-positioned to keep it closed for a while),
       | it would take quite a while to recover lost supply. Iran
       | continues to employ a tit-for-tat strategy and Israel just
       | targeted steel industry in the country -- I'm not even taking
       | into account more deliberate damage to energy infrastructure in
       | the Mid east.
       | 
       | This is a scary crisis wherein the most movable actor (the US) is
       | not going to accept Iran's terms. It could collapse the global
       | economy, and that crucially includes the AI industry this forum
       | loves to focus on almost exclusively. The US and the majority of
       | the west has essentially no fiscal room compared to the
       | comparably lesser 1970s crises either. This could easily spiral
       | out of control and cause a level of suffering across the world
       | (esp the global south) most of us on this forum have not lived to
       | see.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | > Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics,
         | fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, lubricants,
         | cosmetics. Dow chemical just doubled the cost of polyethylene
         | as of April 1st. Taiwan relies on LNG for 40% of its energy
         | production and has like 10 days of fuel left--semis are
         | implicated.
         | 
         | This is, on the high end, 20% of the use of fossil fuels. We
         | overwhelmingly burn oil and gas. If we displaced the burning,
         | Hormuz would not matter (or would minimally matter for a few
         | molecules) and the world would be awash in abundant supplies.
         | 
         | Renewable investment would solve/would have prevented this
         | crisis.
        
           | mono442 wrote:
           | You can't provide heating in winter using renewables.
        
             | brendoelfrendo wrote:
             | ...you can? Electric heaters exist?
        
               | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
               | Always worth mentioning we should be using heat pumps,
               | not straight resistive heating.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | For sure. Heat pumps aren't the best option everywhere
               | (though modern heat pumps probably function acceptably at
               | lower temperatures than most people realize), but if you
               | need to do electric heating, they are the best option
               | most places.
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | For "human" temperatures don't they just degrade back to
               | the efficiency of resistive heating? Or are some places
               | actually cold enough to push the factor below 1?
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | You can, and should, over the entirety of europe apart from
             | the northern parts of the nordic countries electric heat
             | pumps are now simply more efficient than gas powered
             | furnaces. This is true even if powered by gas based
             | electricity - but obviously makes it possible to power them
             | via renewables as well.
             | 
             | People in Quebec (Canada), which is colder than just about
             | all of Europe, have been providing heating in winter using
             | renewables for decades (thanks to an excess of renewables).
        
               | mono442 wrote:
               | most of the countries don't have enough hydro to make it
               | feasible
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | Yeah, but now wind and solar have made it feasible just
               | about everywhere.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | And geothermal, biogas and tidal.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Wot?
             | 
             | Solar makes a fair bit where I am. Hydro works fine.
             | Geothermal works fine. Wind works fine. Aircon is very
             | efficient.
             | 
             | This is harder in plenty of regions but a blanket 'can't be
             | done' is way off the mark.
        
           | irishcoffee wrote:
           | You're choosing willful ignorance if you think petrochemicals
           | will be replaced by renewables in your lifetime.
           | 
           | It isn't going to happen. Planes don't run on solar. Boats
           | don't run on renewables. The lubricant needed for wind
           | turbines comes out of the earth. Dams need the same
           | lubricant. Building roads, oil. Installing renewable
           | infrastructure, oil. Running combines to harvest vegetation,
           | oil. Building renewables requires massive amounts of oil.
           | 
           | Renewables are amazing and I'm all for them. Let's keep that
           | train rolling.
           | 
           | Oil isn't going away, pretending otherwise is willful
           | ignorance.
        
             | ZeroGravitas wrote:
             | Did you read the comment you replied to?
             | 
             | > This is, on the high end, 20% of the use of fossil fuels.
             | We overwhelmingly burn oil and gas. If we displaced the
             | burning, Hormuz would not matter (or would minimally matter
             | for a few molecules) and the world would be awash in
             | abundant supplies.
        
             | MattGaiser wrote:
             | You missed the point of my comment.
             | 
             | > It isn't going to happen. Planes don't run on solar.
             | Boats don't run on renewables. The lubricant needed for
             | wind turbines comes out of the earth. Dams need the same
             | lubricant. Building roads, oil. Installing renewable
             | infrastructure, oil. Running combines to harvest
             | vegetation, oil. Building renewables requires massive
             | amounts of oil.
             | 
             | All of this? About 30% of oil usage on the high end. You
             | are listing the small uses for oil.
             | 
             | May some oil always be needed? Yes. But nowhere near as
             | much as we produce today.
        
             | ViewTrick1002 wrote:
             | Ships are starting to become electrified. Currently for
             | fixed routes.
        
             | OgsyedIE wrote:
             | Strictly speaking, the oil in the Earth's crust is both
             | finite and more than 50% already extracted.
             | 
             | However, a closed cycle of renewable-powered vehicles and
             | processing sites growing crops for biorefineries which are
             | then hydrocracked into the various petrochemical additives
             | to maintain the infrastructure with surplus left over for
             | the rest of society has been proven to be viable going back
             | to the early 2010s.
             | 
             | Leong et al has a great survey of how the entire market of
             | irreplaceable petrochemical uses (e.g. medical grade
             | plastic) and their upstream steps (e.g. metal smelting for
             | making agricultural vehicles) can theoretically be made to
             | work from wind alone, with total immunity to peak oil when
             | it does eventually happen. Although the carbon molecules
             | are essential, having a no-oil well industrial civilization
             | is just a matter of long and arduous implementation and
             | negotiation with vested interests.
        
             | tialaramex wrote:
             | Oil isn't magic, you can just make it, and the reason we
             | don't is merely that it's _expensive_ to do that, whereas
             | it 's just there under the ground - as a fossil fuel.
             | 
             | But because you can just make it from ingredients everybody
             | already has, this puts a ceiling on its actual price _if_
             | you have energy independence. If you need to burn oil, you
             | can 't make oil because that's a vicious circle which would
             | need even more oil. But so long as the only you want oil is
             | for its other properties that's fine.
             | 
             | Hydrocarbons are _incredibly_ simple, the clue is in their
             | name, a bunch of Hydrogen (literally the most common
             | element in the whole universe) and Carbon (also extremely
             | common). The only reason _not_ to make any particular
             | hydrocarbons you need (e.g. to make JetA for a airliner) is
             | it 'd be very energy intensive and instead you can just
             | distil some crude oil to get the hydrocarbons you want...
        
           | OgsyedIE wrote:
           | You could visit an alternate timeline where you have as much
           | renewable investment into energy as you'd like going back
           | decades and while it would help with the fertiliser situation
           | massively it wouldn't solve the problem of needing a supply
           | of carbon atoms to make the carbon-based substances in the
           | list.
           | 
           | You can't make insulin, brake fluid or PVC out of electricity
           | alone.
        
             | RealityVoid wrote:
             | Yes, but all those things, combined, are 20% of the usage.
             | I'd say if you remove about the 50 % used for cars, that's
             | a pretty large improvement.
        
             | fc417fc802 wrote:
             | You don't have to get carbon from oil extracted from
             | underground and you don't have to get oil from the middle
             | east. That's merely where the bulk of it happens to come
             | from at present for price and historical reasons.
        
             | WastedCucumber wrote:
             | I think the point is that a world with renewable
             | electricity wouldn't need as much oil, thereby making
             | smaller sources of carbon sufficient.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Pakistan saves $6B/year with their recent surge in solar,
               | for example.
               | 
               |  _Surprise Solar Uptake in Pakistan Cushions Mideast
               | Energy Shock_ - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2
               | 026-03-17/surprise-... | https://archive.today/QdgdQ -
               | March 17th, 2026
               | 
               | > Millions of factories, farmers, and households have
               | switched to cheap solar panels from China, driving a 40%
               | drop in Pakistan's fossil fuel imports between 2022 and
               | 2024, the researchers found. Additionally, the country is
               | estimated to have saved $12 billion through reduced LNG
               | imports in the past five years as cumulative imports of
               | Chinese photovoltaics soared past 50 gigawatts, the
               | report said.
        
           | baxtr wrote:
           | Hormuz might not matter that much in the future since Saudi
           | and the other countries will build even more pipelines and
           | ports which are on the other side. Short-term is dire though.
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | Before calling it "the worst", I'd like more detail on how to
         | do the comparison with the oil crises of the 1970's. My guess
         | is that modern economies might be somewhat less oil-dependent
         | than they were then, because the alternatives are more
         | developed.
        
         | jddj wrote:
         | How many days' fuel does Taiwan keep in reserve outside of this
         | type of situation?
        
         | thrownawaysz wrote:
         | >This could easily spiral out of control and cause a level of
         | suffering across the world (esp the global south) most of us on
         | this forum have not lived to see.
         | 
         | Daily anxiety attack thanks. As a european I think we are way
         | too vulnerable. Countries divided, rich getting richer, more
         | and more poor people who can barely afford food, and that's in
         | Europe let alone talk about what happens with the poor in
         | Africa and Asia.
         | 
         | Sooner or later we will need a global reset but that sounds
         | worse than everything else
        
         | 01100011 wrote:
         | On the plus side, Trump is helping Europe and Asia meet their
         | climate goals.
         | 
         | <ducks for cover>
         | 
         | I hear diesel is running out in NSW and Queensland Australia.
         | Good thing you don't need diesel to run mining operations. Oh
         | wait..
        
           | WastedCucumber wrote:
           | I was just talking to a kiwi yesterday about diesel. The
           | price has more than doubled already there. So there goes
           | large chunk of the US beef supply.
        
         | codethief wrote:
         | > Taiwan relies on LNG for 40% of its energy production and has
         | like 10 days of fuel left--semis are implicated.
         | 
         | The "10 days left" thing seems to be a hoax(?)
         | 
         | https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/international-relations/m...
         | 
         | https://www.malaymail.com/news/world/2026/03/26/is-taiwan-ru...
        
           | SirensOfTitan wrote:
           | Oh I'm sorry, that was actually my mistake, I should have
           | been much more specific, and I will update the comment if I
           | still can. My intention was to emphasize that Taiwan may have
           | to start limiting electricity to its industrial sector based
           | on its current runway. Per the article you listed:
           | 
           | > Yeh Tsung-kuang, a professor in the Department of
           | Engineering and System Science at National Tsing Hua
           | University, said Taiwan's maximum LNG inventory is only 11
           | days but that does not mean the island will run out of fuel
           | or face outages within that time period
           | 
           | EDIT: updated comment to be more specific.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | If the price of the blockade is as high as you outline, the
         | price to secure the strait military might look comparatively
         | lower.
         | 
         | And, looking at the scenario you're describing, it could be the
         | most sane thing to do at this point.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | It is asymmetrical warfare. A hundred plus ships went through
           | the straight daily. Attackers only need to occasionally
           | damage a ship to make the crossing look deeply unappealing.
           | No military intervention can promise 100% defense to passing
           | vessels.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Whatever Iran wants is the cheaper course to resolution.
        
             | cucumber3732842 wrote:
             | As the value of the oil goes up it becomes worth it to risk
             | the ship. Even if you're paying to insure it there's an
             | equilibrium point between odds and value.
        
           | SirensOfTitan wrote:
           | The problem is that Iran can defend the strait against the
           | world's most advanced military with drones built with
           | commercial hardware for 30-50K per drone. And that doesn't
           | even take into account escalation, as if the US escalates
           | then Iran will likely start targeting critical infrastructure
           | in the region, making the crisis worse.
           | 
           | The US and Israel are rapidly running out of munitions, while
           | Iran is being resupplied by Russia (https://www.ft.com/conten
           | t/d5d7291b-8a53-42cd-b10a-4e02fbcf9...) which is much more
           | tooled out for munition production compared to NATO. The US
           | also relies on both rare earths and Chinese supply chain for
           | a lot of its munitions (which it is running low on).
           | 
           | IMO the best option is for Trump to TACO, take the major L,
           | and cede Iran its demands, but this would partially mean an
           | alignment shift from Israel which still feels unthinkable
           | based on the US political realities.
        
           | vkou wrote:
           | > the price to secure the straight military might look
           | comparatively lower.
           | 
           | The price to secure the straight militarily _is a full ground
           | invasion of Iran_.
           | 
           | This would be done against a country four times bigger (in
           | population and size) than Iraq, with the kind of terrain that
           | makes Afghanistan look easily accessible, _done without the
           | help of a coalition of fools_ , because this isn't 2003, and
           | nobody in Europe is very eager to send their kids to die for
           | a war that Trump's ego started. His 2025 attempts to
           | 'ingrate' himself with Europe are paying dividends now.
           | 
           | Also, if you think the war is unpopular now (nobody but the
           | 40% of the country that's MAGA-brained supports it - and
           | those guys will support _anything_ ), imagine what the
           | popularity would be like with a full mobilization and
           | invasion.
           | 
           | The GOP isn't _that_ eager to become a 31-seat party this
           | November.
        
       | perching_aix wrote:
       | 50L/day - with no other limits - sounds like a lot. Are there
       | really fuel tourists coming in en masse and taking more than
       | this? With zero tracking of enforcement whatsoever, people will
       | just hit up a few different nearby gas stations instead of one
       | anyways and that's it.
        
       | marginalia_nu wrote:
       | Well if you have regulated fuel prices, _and_ free trade and
       | travel with neighboring countries (the whole point of the EU),
       | you 're gonna see arbitrage if those countries aren't regulating
       | fuel prices.
       | 
       | Options are to either un-regulate the prices, or ration the fuel
       | sales.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | I do not understand this rationing scheme.
       | 
       | Say I live in Austria and it is a short ride to a Slovenia
       | Station. Can buy as much gas as I want, but citizens in Slovenia
       | are limited ? That does not seem right.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | No, as of now, you can't pump more than 50L. Doesn't matter
         | whether you're a citizen or not.
        
       | svilen_dobrev wrote:
       | Bulgaria.. today.. 95 gasoline , on nearest OMV station = ~~
       | 1.42E/liter (more prices at [0] : 1.26-2.15E)
       | 
       | https://fuelo.net/cheap/where?lang=bg&order=cheap&fuel_type=...
       | 
       | come here, the water is fine :)
        
       | dismalaf wrote:
       | I bet everyone around the world is glad that Canada decided
       | virtue signalling is more important than exporting LNG and oil.
        
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