[HN Gopher] Why so many control rooms were seafoam green (2025)
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       Why so many control rooms were seafoam green (2025)
        
       Author : Amorymeltzer
       Score  : 993 points
       Date   : 2026-03-25 15:46 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bethmathews.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bethmathews.substack.com)
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Ha, I am very proud that I made that discovery independently as
       | well. In the Light vs Dark theme, I settled on a light greyish
       | green that is somewhat close to the one described here. It really
       | does reduce eye fatigue.
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | Reminds me of Go Away Green -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Away_Green
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Go Away reads to me as a command to the viewer to go away
         | rather than the intended "we want the object to go away from
         | the viewer's thoughts". If they were okay with a phrase like Go
         | Away Green, why not something like Hidden View Green,
         | Irrelevant Green, Don't Look Here Green, etc. Some PR
         | department would have a field day
        
           | vscode-rest wrote:
           | Prob because Go Away Green sounds way cooler than all of
           | those and it's not a user facing term anyways.
        
             | deruta wrote:
             | And alliteration for extra cool.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | "Move Along Green"
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | A gas station near me painted their bollards this color. I've
         | wondered if this would be a credible legal defense for someone
         | that accidentally backed into them.
        
         | evanjrowley wrote:
         | The thin strip of yellow/black caution stripes on an otherwise
         | unnoticable green conduit was so ironic it made me smile:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Away_Green#/media/File:The_...
         | 
         | It's saying "DON'T NOTICE THIS! (also, please notice this!)"
        
       | jcalx wrote:
       | Reminds me of turquoise cockpits [0], another workspace where
       | visual fatigue considerations are important.
       | 
       | [0] https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16434/why-
       | are-r...
        
       | somat wrote:
       | I wonder if the designers of cold war soviet planes read the same
       | color theory because their cockpits are always a very particular
       | indescribable shade of green. There were also very specific
       | colors for subsystems, yellow for fuel, purple for hydraulics
       | etc. Much more than the contemporary US designs.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | My father was a mechanic and crew chief working on F-14's
         | during his time in the air force. His two takeaways from his
         | service were: 1. No one should ever join the military for any
         | reason ever forever, and 2. Somebody needs to color code
         | literally anything.
         | 
         | He talked about how the wiring schematics were a maze, made
         | worse by using only non-labeled gray and black wires with
         | connections and mounts that were the same color made of the
         | same material.
         | 
         | The exterior being gray makes sense - harder to see with human
         | eyes. But internals? They should be massively contrasting
         | colors for every single series of pieces to be removed so you
         | can just follow along by color.
        
           | saltcured wrote:
           | Tangentially, this reminds me of stories from my dad who got
           | some kind of special award for having made their ship radar
           | the best in the fleet.
           | 
           | Sometime before that, he got a lot of flak for having
           | neglected one of the standing rules, to label everything as
           | you take it apart and put it back "the way you found it". He
           | decided to break it down and put it back the way the
           | technical documentation said it should actually go. This
           | seems to be part of the reason his radar performed better
           | than the others after teardown maintenance.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Cheaper to buy huge spools of gray clad wiring than a lot of
           | different color coded wires? Also you don't have to stock a
           | lot of different colors for repairs.
        
           | eggsome wrote:
           | Surely you mean F-15 right? (F-14 was exclusive to the Navy +
           | Iran exports)
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | Womp womp. Yes. F15. Somewhere my father is screaming.
        
           | bityard wrote:
           | I worked on military avionics in a previous life and all of
           | the planes I worked on had miles of white wires. The reasons
           | given to us were:
           | 
           | 1. Cost savings when buying.
           | 
           | 2. There are hundreds to thousands of wires in an aircraft,
           | but there are NOT hundreds to thousands of different colors
           | of wires (even if we allow for stripes, etc) that are readily
           | distinguishable to an overworked airman hunched over in a
           | dim, cramped avionics bay trying to fix a plane that needs to
           | take off for a mission in an hour.
           | 
           | If you are lucky, the wires are numbered. But even if they
           | are, you typically identify a wire by its connector pin and
           | PRAY that the fault isn't a break somewhere back in the
           | wiring harness.
        
             | xethos wrote:
             | I'd also mention that black lasermarked white wire has
             | marvelous contrast, even in the dim, covered in dust. Black
             | lasermarked (or god help you, heatstamped) wire on damn
             | near any other colour, like one finds in automotive, is
             | distinctly worse.
             | 
             | Yellow would be manageable, but the wrong shade of red,
             | purple, green, or blue (wihch, when seperating systems by
             | colour, would inevitably get used) would be shitty to work
             | on
        
           | NetMageSCW wrote:
           | Unfortunately when you get enough conductors you start
           | running out of insulator colors and start running into the
           | problems copper telephone lines had - using pairs of colors
           | (base with stripe) and tracing get pretty hard at that point.
        
         | torginus wrote:
         | That color shows up a lot in stairways apartment blocks and
         | school corridors and bathrooms in ex-Soviet bloc countries.
         | 
         | My two guesses are that it was colored like that get the pilots
         | feel like they were in a particular environment - a familar but
         | not exactly private or comfortable one. It's a cultural thing
         | like if you paint a bus yellow, Americans will think of a
         | school bus, but most other people won't.
         | 
         | My other guess is that they only made certain kinds of dye, and
         | its very well possible the same factory made it that made it
         | for bathroom tiles. In capitalism, if you don't have orange
         | paint, for example, some company will just start making it if
         | there's a demand.
         | 
         | In communism, if nobody makes it, then it's not available,
         | until and if some comittee decides that it should be made.
        
           | gukov wrote:
           | The reason for the green stairways was the vast surplus of
           | the green paint (used for military equipment) post-WW2.
        
         | dlcarrier wrote:
         | I've noticed that both American and Soviet planes used greenish
         | colors, but the American ones are a yellowish green, while the
         | Soviet ones are a bluish green. I've always wondered if the
         | American yellowish green was chosen because it's similar to the
         | color of the zinc chromate primer used on those aircraft, so
         | the transparency of the paint wouldn't be an issue.
        
           | jschveibinz wrote:
           | The yellowish-green is the zinc chromate "passivation"
           | coating to help prevent corrosion.
        
         | zczc wrote:
         | They definitely knew, Soviet books on industrial design and
         | architecture explicitly mention Birren [1]
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.google.com/search?q="birren"+zelenyi&udm=36&tbs=...
         | (search for Russian for "Birren"+green in 20th century books)
        
       | huflungdung wrote:
       | Half arsed article. Expected much more detail
        
       | dogscatstrees wrote:
       | This article is a gem, thank you. Now off to Sherwin-Williams to
       | see what the equivalent color names are. I wonder if there are
       | matching formula.
        
         | srmatto wrote:
         | Would be cool to get an original copy of "Colors for Interiors:
         | Historical and Modern by Faber Birren" and create color matches
         | assuming it's not faded too much. I wonder if he created some
         | kind of pigmentation ratio (or however paint coloring works)
         | that he shared somewhere?
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | Planet Money had a story about the quantization of color[0].
           | Prior to this, people would essentially bring in a flower,
           | piece of pottery, etc that they wanted to color match for the
           | particular piece at hand.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.npr.org/2024/07/19/1197961103/pantone-colors-
           | law...
        
         | mgerdts wrote:
         | In the late 80s I worked in an industrial controls shop. This
         | is the type of place that makes the cabinets with all the
         | buttons, switches, and lights commonly associated with nuke
         | plant controls. Only we did mostly controls for paper making
         | machinery for Kimberly-Clark, Appleton Papers, etc.
         | 
         | Most of our green cabinets were spotlite green. Seafoam green
         | was rare. Both paint colors were prepared by our local sherwin
         | Williams. The colors looked pretty much the same to me.
        
       | mlacks wrote:
       | On US submarines, _every_ bulkhead and beam not in the bilge is
       | painted seafoam green. We were told it was the most soothing /
       | anti-rage inducing color possible - necessary for long
       | deployments in cramped quarters.
       | 
       | After a little over a decade of service, no other color
       | infuriates me more
        
         | fgonzag wrote:
         | Silver lining, at least your triggered by a color that
         | basically doesn't exist and is no longer in wide spread use.
         | (As in you won't find it as much in daily civilian life)
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | That's a fascinating story!
       | 
       | I'd never even heard of this guy.
        
         | emmelaich wrote:
         | Gal.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | _> Gal._
           | 
           | Heh. That explains it. I was wondering what problem people
           | had with the comment.
           | 
           | I was talking about Faber Birren. The article is basically
           | about him. Definitely a guy.
           | 
           | It's always a pleasure to be "corrected," hereabouts...
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | It's so nice to see colors in any kind of government, industrial,
       | or commercial building. The "everything must be gray/beige" fad
       | has dominated institutional interior design for at least 30
       | years. Maybe it's just nostalgia, I remember the wall colors in
       | banks, schools, doctor's offices, mcdonalds, and so on in the
       | 1970s and they seemed so wonderful. All these things got a coat
       | of white paint sometime in the 2000s and look the same as
       | everywhere else now.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | I feel that too. My house had significant chunks painted a
         | vivid aquamarine when I moved in 2018, and my now-ex insisted
         | that we paint over it all in grey.
         | 
         | After she moved out, I put up greens, yellows, brown, and blue
         | all over the house. It's not quite as "public pool" feeling as
         | that original aquamarine, but it's certainly more lively than
         | grey/white. Funny enough though, when I had a designer come in
         | to take measurements and do a mockup for a kitchen reno...
         | everything was back to white because that's step one in making
         | it look "modern" even though part of the pitch is custom
         | cabinetry that _won 't_ just look like that same white IKEA
         | stuff that everyone installs now.
        
           | bobomonkey wrote:
           | Install the boring shit and use colored vinal wrap for fun.
           | Good resale value and you can enjoy life.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | It's common for homes especially when prepped for sale
           | because neutral colors won't clash with whatever the
           | potential buyer might want to bring in e.g. furniture,
           | artwork, or other decor.
           | 
           | Most of the rooms in my house are painted in colors and I
           | mostly like it but it can sometimeds feel fatiguing. I've
           | thought about repainting in a neutral gray or green.
        
             | silisili wrote:
             | I get that argument, but as a counterpoint of one: Our last
             | house we got so tired of the drabness, we used rich reds,
             | golds, greens, and an even a bright orange in one room. It
             | made the whole house feel so much more vibrant, it's hard
             | to explain but it was just... pleasant to look at.
             | 
             | Anyways, the new owners tracked down my wife over some old
             | mail, and during the conversation they thanked us for
             | having painted it so vividly and said it was part of why
             | they were drawn to it. They shared pics and they've done a
             | -ton- of work, but the paint colors remain :)
        
             | Spooky23 wrote:
             | 2018 was peak chip and jojo. Every suburban chick was into
             | grey and barn doors.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I had to get my whole house repainted after a kitchen fire.
         | Have some black and a lot of white (trim and ceilings) but also
         | subtle green in upstairs rooms and very subtle orange
         | everywhere else. Kept it simple but prefer it to everything
         | being a light gray like a relative has. There still aren't that
         | many different paints if retouching is ever needed.
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | Because it's the least offensive. No one can yell at you or
         | claim the color is "dated" if you stick to white/gray/black and
         | a touch of stainless steel.
         | 
         | Sad to see how many houses are painted gray or beige in SF now.
         | We are going to paint ours purple in protest.
        
           | unbalancedevh wrote:
           | Reminds me of "Mr. Pine's Purple House"
        
         | inanutshellus wrote:
         | This is cyclical.
         | 
         | We went from overwhelming color chaos of pink and green
         | toilets, carpeted bathroom floors, and kaleidoscope wallpapers
         | to calm, clean, and inoffensive shades of whites and "agreeable
         | gray"s.
         | 
         | Soon enough people will stop thinking of those whites/grays as
         | a fresh, low-chaos decoration decision and switch to thinking
         | of it as oppressively boring and break out with fantastic ideas
         | like ... green toilets and kaleidoscope wallpaper.
        
       | jscheel wrote:
       | I got through this entire article before I realized it was
       | written by someone I worked with back in my agency days. Beth is
       | an awesome designer with a great eye. Nice to see her on the
       | front page here. Now, to the content: I often wonder how much we
       | have lost with our endless quest for minimalism. We can't even
       | make buttons look like buttons anymore. Affordances have become
       | anemic at times. Designers who think and care deeply about
       | functional color theory and usable design should be cherished.
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | I'm reminded of an article a while back talking about how the
         | change from sodium streetlights to LED streetlights had a whole
         | lot of unforeseen effects on animals, people's sleep patterns,
         | driver awareness and visibility, etc. due to color changes.
         | There was a comment on the article from an old civil engineer
         | saying "no, these were not unforeseen, we actually did the
         | research back in the day to figure out what color the street
         | lights should be, that's why they were the color they were."
        
           | linkjuice4all wrote:
           | I think we've learned a couple of times that lighting
           | placement, temperature, and shadow-casting are not ideal [0].
           | Also some of the newer lighting does actually fade to a
           | different color [1] so it's not just the base temperature of
           | the new lights.
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_tower
           | 
           | [1] https://sigostreetlight.com/blogs/common-quality-
           | problems-in...
        
           | cucumber3732842 wrote:
           | I'm sure tons of people along the way "noticed" but if you're
           | selling LEDs or you're paid by the LED people to create
           | marketing to convince people that LEDs are gonna save the
           | planet, you're not gonna bring that up.
        
             | mikestorrent wrote:
             | IDK if you've noticed but we are all lighting our house
             | with bulbs that use 1/10th the amount of electricity as
             | incandescents did. I like the color spectrum of a real
             | lightbulb better, too, but not enough to pay 10x in power.
             | I make up for it by using all kinds of random bulbs all
             | over the place so that the aggregate light in the room
             | fills more of the spectrum than if I coordinated them all
             | to be the same.
        
               | throwaway27448 wrote:
               | How many life forms do we have to kill before cost
               | savings aren't worth it?
               | 
               | Besides, we can have LEDs in better spectrums for under
               | 1/5th the costs of incandescents. We just hired stingy
               | motherfuckers and don't care about the repercussions of
               | our decisions.
        
               | duskdozer wrote:
               | I question the cost/energy savings. Seems to me for the
               | most part any efficiency gains are being spent on making
               | everything 5x as bright and expansive.
        
               | cucumber3732842 wrote:
               | >but we are all lighting our house with bulbs that use
               | 1/10th the amount of electricity as incandescents did.
               | 
               | Yeah I know. I love it in my house.
               | 
               | On the industrial side, sodium vs LED is a much closer
               | comparison generally than LED vs incandescent. LEDs kinda
               | suck for high bay applications.
        
               | aliher1911 wrote:
               | Did you try using high CRI LEDs with color remperature of
               | 2700K-3000K? When I switched from halogen to LED I did
               | just that and the difference is not noticeable, you'll
               | have the same yellowish tint and very natural looking
               | colours. Even with expensive bulbs, extra longevity
               | covers for higher cost.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | 2700 is really cool. To the GP, if you're looking for
               | something more like daylight but not noticeably yellow,
               | try 3600k or thereabouts.
               | 
               | The actual temperature of the sun is over 5000k (yes, the
               | k in lightbulb temperature corresponds to the Kelvin
               | scale of temperature) but after being scattered by our
               | atmosphere it appears cooler. And where did all that
               | extra light go? It was scattered around, making the sky
               | blue!
        
               | Forgeties79 wrote:
               | 3700-4500 is my range I like these days
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | If I could run different lighting after sunset, I'd run
               | something high-CRI in your range during the day and a
               | low-CRI 3000 after sunset.
               | 
               | As it is, I compromise.
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | There are LED lamps which have a "warm dim" feature so
               | that the appear oranger as you reduce the brightness.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Thanks, that's great to know! However, I also had to
               | remove the high-CRI lights from some lamps because I
               | found that they disturb my sleep if I have them on in the
               | hours before bedtime.
               | 
               | I live in a 240-volt country, though, and I've never seen
               | a dimmer switch here.
        
               | duskdozer wrote:
               | Personally I find 2700k-rated LED to not even be low-k
               | enough to match incandescent.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | The color of the solar light depends on the proportion of
               | yellowish direct solar light and bluish sky light that
               | fall on an object.
               | 
               | When the sky is covered by clouds, which mix the direct
               | Sun light and the sky light, you get a color much closer
               | to the true color of the Sun.
        
               | anymouse123456 wrote:
               | Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or just living in
               | a place where the power is so bad, it causes premature
               | failures.
               | 
               | The claimed extra longevity of LED bulbs has not
               | materialized for me.
               | 
               | They seem to fail at roughly the same frequency that
               | incandescent bulbs did in my home, which makes them about
               | 10x to 15x more expensive.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | Many complain about this, because they have been fooled
               | into buying low-quality lamps, with bad cooling or bad
               | electronic components.
               | 
               | I have many Philips LED lamps bought some 10 to 15 years
               | ago, which were put in Edison sockets for incandescent
               | lamps, and none of them has become defective during all
               | these years.
               | 
               | However, even at that time, it was not their cheapest
               | model, but one that was claimed to be long-life and I
               | believe that later they have discontinued that model in
               | favor of cheaper lamps.
               | 
               | I have no idea which vendor of LED lamps might sell good
               | LED lamps today, because I never had to search for
               | replacements. I assume that good LED lamps must still be
               | available, but one must not impulse buy them, but one
               | must check carefully the specifications of the lamps and
               | the credibility of the vendor, before making a purchase
               | decision.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | I do not like 2700 K to 3000 K lamps, which are obviously
               | yellowish and regardless how high their CRI may be they
               | distort the colors of clothes or any other objects.
               | 
               | I also do not like the bluish cheap 6500 K lamps.
               | 
               | I consider optimum the 4000 K lamps. This appear white
               | with only a very-slightly yellowish hue, which allows the
               | perception of the natural colors of most objects, but it
               | still provides a warmer sensation than a strictly neutral
               | white color (i.e. one around 5500 K).
        
               | 6510 wrote:
               | Depending on where you live the heating might be nice.
               | 
               | In the US people use roughly 10 000 kwh per year.
               | 
               | Say we have a 40 watt bulb, say it burns on average 5
               | hours per day or 200 wh. In 365 days that would be 72 kwh
               | which at 16 cents per kwh is $11.52 or 0.73% of the
               | annual power consumption.
               | 
               | Say one uses 5 light bulbs. Something around $57.60. Say
               | leds use only 25% of the power = $14.40 for $43.2 saved.
               | 
               | Well over 10 cents per day.
               | 
               | What are you going to spend your 10 cents on? lol
        
               | Spooky23 wrote:
               | The problem is we went from a market that consisted of
               | cheapo/good bulbs at various brightness levels to a
               | market where Walmart and Home Depot have like 60 linear
               | feet of bulbs.
               | 
               | There's no standards and people are clueless and
               | confused. There are awesome LEDs, but more often you see
               | have harsh, terrible light.
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | Cluing in is really easy. Look for "CRI >= 90", or at
               | least "full-spectrum" for the lamps that are easy on the
               | eyes. Pick 2700K for softly lit spaces, 4000-4500K for
               | brightly lit spaces.
        
               | foobarian wrote:
               | The really awesome thing about the 1/10 power consumption
               | is that the existing circuits/wiring/sockets now suddenly
               | support 10x the light without burning down your house.
               | I'm a sucker for well lit space and these lights are just
               | heaven for me.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | I hate incandescents and am glad they're gone. People
               | chronically under light their homes at the best of times.
               | 
               | My whole house is neutral white LEDs except the bathrooms
               | where we go to cool white to make it easier to clean and
               | be sure it's clean (even if it's not spotless, there's a
               | huge psychological benefit to not feeling like dim light
               | is masking even more grime).
               | 
               | Oddly enough I'm otherwise pretty light sensitive - my
               | current office at work has been a nightmare of trying to
               | manage glare from badly places overheads and windows.
               | 
               | Going from 500w for my living room to 80w also helps a
               | lot (and way more light and a lot less heat).
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | High-quality white LED lamps are indeed optimal for
               | indoor lighting.
               | 
               | That does not make them the best choice for outdoor night
               | lighting.
               | 
               | The replacement of the outdoor lighting appears to have
               | been motivated in most cases by the desire to divert
               | taxpayer funds towards the private companies selling such
               | lamps, instead of by any technical reasons.
        
               | yawnr wrote:
               | Cool white lights are tacky, offensive to the senses, and
               | disruptive to circadian rhythms at night.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | For indoor lighting, LED lamps are indeed the right
               | solution.
               | 
               | I have also been using for more than a decade 13 W LED
               | lamps that produce the same luminous flux as the 100-W
               | incandescent lamps or the 23-W compact fluorescent lamps
               | used in the past.
               | 
               | However, the requirements for an outdoor night lamp are
               | very different. Low-pressure sodium lamps have about the
               | same energy efficiency and lifetime as LED lamps, so
               | those are not arguments for replacing them. The only
               | thing that matters is whether you prefer yellow light or
               | white light in a night environment. I definitely prefer
               | yellow light, for reasons already mentioned by others,
               | i.e. much less interference with night vision, sky light,
               | nocturnal animals, or with my street-directed windows at
               | home.
               | 
               | If energy efficiency would really matter, one could
               | produce monochromatic amber LED lamps with efficiencies
               | at least double over the current white LED lamps.
        
             | bux93 wrote:
             | Those LED people marketed themselves out of a job, then. I
             | repaced one (1) broken light bulb over the past 10 years,
             | as opposed to 5 a year before switching to LEDs.
        
           | SyzygyRhythm wrote:
           | > that's why they were the color they were
           | 
           | That doesn't seem right to me. Sodium (and mercury) vapor
           | lamps are the color they are due to physics, and were chosen
           | because they're very efficient (and long lasting). Low-
           | pressure sodium is the best and worst of these; essentially
           | monochromatic but fantastic efficiency. Their only advantage,
           | color-wise, is that the light can be filtered out easily
           | (they used to be widely used in San Jose because Lick
           | Observatory could filter out the 589 nm light).
        
             | salawat wrote:
             | ...And the old Engineer was just saying that that was the
             | area on the spectrum they aimed for, so they found a light
             | that emitted in that wavelength that could be technically
             | implemented and scaled.
             | 
             | Way better work than whoever it is handling this LED
             | nonsense. Why we can't find a diode that we can use to
             | simulate the old spectra would be a fun research project.
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | We of course can make LEDs of more or less any color. The
               | current white LEDs are high-power blue LEDs that are
               | covered by various phosphors to give a mix of colors for
               | "full spectrum" illumination. Different color
               | temperatures are produced by different mixes of
               | phosphors. This is pretty similar to how the traditional
               | luminescent (mercury vapor-based) lamps worked.
               | 
               | But different phosphors have different efficiency and
               | price. LED lamps were first introduced for interior
               | lighting, where sun-like spectrum is welcome. Such LEDs
               | were produced en masse and relatively cheaply. So street
               | lighting naturally used them, because municipalities
               | usually look for the cheapest viable option.
               | 
               | We likely could produce high-power narrow-spectrum orange
               | LEDs if there was a large market for the economies of
               | scale to kick in. You can buy deep orange LED lamps today
               | (look for color temperature 1800K or 1600K, "amber"), but
               | they are more expensive, because they are niche.
        
               | josephg wrote:
               | > Different color temperatures are produced by different
               | mixes of phosphors.
               | 
               | We can make LED light _appear_ to be any given colour by
               | mixing multiple LEDs. But mixed colour isn 't the same as
               | pure colour, made from a single spectra of light. Nor is
               | it the same as true broad spectrum light - like we get
               | from black-body radiation like the sun, or a tungsten
               | bulb.
               | 
               | Its hard to tell the difference just by looking at a
               | light. But different kinds of lights - even lights which
               | look the same colour - will change what objects actually
               | look like. And they probably have different effects on
               | our sleep cycle and our low light vision. I was in a room
               | once lit only by sodium vapour lights. The lights were
               | yellow, but everything in the room (including me)
               | appeared to be in greyscale. It was uncanny.
               | 
               | This is part of the reason why LED lights are still
               | looked down on by a lot of old school photographers and
               | film makers. Skin doesn't look as good under cheap LED
               | lights.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | For light with a narrow spectrum, it is possible to make
               | LEDs that emit that light with high-efficiency, for any
               | color inside 2 ranges, one from near infrared to yellow
               | (corresponding to semiconductor phosphides and arsenides)
               | and one from blue to near ultraviolet (corresponding to
               | semiconductor nitrides).
               | 
               | Only green LEDs have worse efficiency, because they must
               | be made with semiconductors for which optimum efficiency
               | is attained at either lower or higher light frequencies.
               | 
               | Lamps using high-efficiency amber LEDs with about the
               | same color with sodium lamps could be made at an
               | energetic efficiency at least double to that of white LED
               | lamps.
               | 
               | The double factor comes from the visual sensitivity being
               | double for the light at sodium color than for ideal white
               | light.
               | 
               | In reality the energetic efficiency of such LED lamps
               | should be more than double, because they do not have
               | losses caused by conversion through fluorescence.
        
               | functional_dev wrote:
               | seafoam green choice was also influenced by eye rest
               | studies... since our eyes are most sensitive to middle
               | wavelengths. just keep the room dimmer without losing
               | detail. It reduces fatigue for operators on long shifts.
        
               | scubadude wrote:
               | Modern street lighting provides a way clearer view of the
               | scene imo than the old sodium lighting. Maybe it's just
               | brighter now.
        
               | LtWorf wrote:
               | It's about 100000x brighter and if your bedroom is next
               | to a street lamp, good luck getting some sleep.
        
               | albumen wrote:
               | Blackout curtains.
        
               | 6510 wrote:
               | After they swapped out the lights at my job I couldn't
               | sleep after night shifts. It's pitch dark but the biology
               | thinks it was noon an hour ago.
        
               | LtWorf wrote:
               | But i want sunlight in the morning?
        
               | bookofjoe wrote:
               | https://shop.delos.com/products/philips-wake-up-light-
               | hf3650...
        
               | LtWorf wrote:
               | "i want a wife" "here's a blow up doll. Totally the same
               | thing"
        
               | Citizen_Lame wrote:
               | Best we can do in this economy.
        
               | duskdozer wrote:
               | Inadequate.
        
               | bookofjoe wrote:
               | When I was an medical intern back in the day and worked
               | 24 hour shifts every third day, I bought a roll of thick
               | black vinyl and taped it to the window frame. 0.0 light
               | got through.
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | Providing a day-like view of the scene should not be the
               | primary goal of nighttime lighting.
        
             | mcfly_c-137 wrote:
             | The monochromatic light emitted from sodium lamps is also
             | close to the peak sensitivity of the human eye. Colours are
             | not distinguishable, but contrast is much enhanced compared
             | to "cooler" light sources.
             | 
             | *edit: but it's the overwhelmingly larger lifespan (20-30k
             | hrs) that led to the wide adoption as streetlights. And I
             | guess, the same is true for the change to led today,
             | because of less power consumption.
        
               | eastbound wrote:
               | Sodium lamps were deemed dangerous for driving" because
               | they made it difficult for drivers to distinguish shapes,
               | since they were different from day shapes. A kid in
               | bright 1980ies colors (Little Red Hood) would look black
               | under those lights.
               | 
               | LED was presented as a sharp improvement because of the
               | large spectrum of white light.
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | The sodium lamps are in fact safer for driving, because
               | they preserve drivers' night vision, which improves
               | visibility into the shadows, and because they cause less
               | glare.
               | 
               | What they aren't good for is LED manufacturers' bottom
               | line, and the lighting industry spent a lot of lobbying
               | money to entice friendly politicians to heavily subsidize
               | them with public infrastructure budgets, with those
               | subsidies then misleadingly sold to the public as
               | "efficient" and "environmentally friendly".
               | 
               | They're also not very good for reading the newspaper or
               | doing critical color analysis. Thankfully such tasks do
               | not need to be done at night in the middle of the street.
        
               | duskdozer wrote:
               | That would make sense. Otherwise I have no idea how
               | people wouldn't have noticed how much more difficult it
               | makes seeing anything outside of the sharp cutoff of the
               | light cone (or, of course, for the person being dazzled
               | on the other side).
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | It's _not_ especially close to the peak sensitivity of
               | the human eye (in either bright or dim conditions), but
               | that 's entirely okay. The goal should be to not affect
               | people's level of dark adaptation.
               | 
               | If you use shorter ("bluer") wavelengths, as happens with
               | white LEDs which consist of a blue LED + phosphor, it
               | causes people's eyes to become bright adapted and
               | effective night vision is ruined, causing people to have
               | much worse vision in the shadows.
               | 
               | Also, if you use bluer light, the lights themselves cause
               | dramatically more glare in peripheral vision, because the
               | shorter-wavelength-sensitive "S" cone cells and rod cells
               | are mostly absent from the fovea (center of the retina),
               | and prevalent in the outer areas of the retina. This is
               | why LED headlamps on cars are so obnoxious for drivers
               | going the opposite direction.
               | 
               | Also, the LEDs clobber people's circadian rhythms and are
               | extremely disruptive to wildlife.
               | 
               | Finally, the light pollution caused by the LEDs is much
               | worse for seeing the stars, which is maybe not as
               | important as the other harms, but still kind of sad.
        
               | Chris2048 wrote:
               | > The goal should be to not affect people's level of dark
               | adaptation.
               | 
               | Wouldn't that be red light? But night scenes illuminated
               | in red light have the side effect of looking
               | nightmarish..
        
               | ijk wrote:
               | That's not necessarily a downside for traffic safety,
               | though. Though I imagine someone must have studied the
               | effects of various wavelengths on drivers...
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Advertisers definitely did - there's (some) money in
               | billboards, but only as long as you don't kill your
               | prospective customers.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | Red light would be even better for affecting the dark
               | adaptation, but it has other disadvantages, like much
               | worse energetic efficiency and lower visual resolution.
               | 
               | Yellow light a.k.a. amber light around the sodium
               | emission line is a good compromise between energy
               | efficiency, visual resolution and dark adaptation.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | > It's not especially close to the peak sensitivity
               | 
               | The sensitivity at sodium light is above 75% of the peak
               | human vision (photopic) sensitivity.
               | 
               | This is a very small difference in light sensitivity. For
               | example in the case of many sources of red light or blue
               | light the sensitivity can be 5 to 10 times lower than the
               | peak sensitivity.
               | 
               | Moreover, a perfect source of white light cannot achieve
               | a better sensitivity than around 37%, i.e. less than half
               | of the efficiency of an ideal source of monochromatic
               | light at the sodium emission line.
               | 
               | Therefore the fact that currently LED lamps and low-
               | pressure sodium lamps have about the same energy
               | efficiency is caused by the LED lamps having a higher
               | photonic efficiency and a lower threshold voltage (caused
               | by a P-N junction voltage instead of the ionization
               | potential of sodium), which compensate the disadvantage
               | of using white light. A monochromatic LED lamp with the
               | same color as the sodium lamps could have an energy
               | efficiency at least double over the white LED lamps.
        
               | AriedK wrote:
               | The power savings are minor btweeen LED and low presssure
               | sodium lamps. The LED streetlights emit light along the
               | full spectrum, the sodium lamps only at 589 nm. The LEDs
               | are more controllable so smart dimming ( when there are
               | no cars) is a perceived advantage.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | There are 2 kinds of sodium lamps, low-pressure and high-
               | pressure.
               | 
               | The low-pressure lamps emit monochromatic light and they
               | have not only the advantage of long life but they are
               | also the only other source of light that matches the
               | energy efficiency of converting electrical energy to
               | light of the LED lamps.
               | 
               | So replacing low-pressure lamps with LED lamps does not
               | produce any significant economic effects, it was
               | justified only by the supposed advantage of enabling
               | color vision.
               | 
               | However in many places high-pressure sodium lamps have
               | been preferred, which have a wider spectrum, so they
               | allow some very poor color discrimination. The high-
               | pressure lamps have a lower efficiency than LED lamps, so
               | replacing them was justified by energy savings.
               | 
               | Outdoors at night, I prefer the monochromatic low-
               | pressure sodium lamps, but sadly LED lamps have replaced
               | them in most places.
        
               | rapnie wrote:
               | In my area and esp. in the countryside they have green
               | led lighting on various roads as an innovation, with the
               | reasoning that is both least disturbing to wildlife, and
               | best for human vision to see sharply. The light color
               | takes some getting used to, but I am quite a fan of it.
               | Esp. when cycling at home at night through the fields it
               | makes things seem extra serene and peaceful.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | Sodium (and mercury) vapor lamps may be the color they are
             | due to physics, but you don't have to put Na or Hg in those
             | tubes. I don't know but Li, K, Rb, Cs should, Mg, Ca, Sr,
             | Ba probably also work, but nobody make lamps with those
             | elements.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | There are 4 important properties for the substance used
               | in a gas-discharge lamp.
               | 
               | 1. For a sufficient gas pressure in the lamp, the
               | substance must be either a gas or a metal with low
               | boiling temperature, so that it will be vaporized by an
               | electrical discharge.
               | 
               | 2. The gas must not react chemically with the enclosure
               | and with the electrodes, which prevents the use of most
               | gases except noble gases and metallic vapors. Except for
               | noble gases and metallic vapors, the lamps using other
               | substances must not have electrodes, so they need a more
               | complex and less efficient electronic system for
               | producing a high-frequency AC discharge, e.g. using a
               | magnetron from microwave ovens.
               | 
               | 3. The ionization potential must be low for a good energy
               | efficiency. Alkaline metals have low ionization
               | potentials and low boiling temperatures, so they are
               | better than noble gases and other metals.
               | 
               | 4. The color of the light must be one where the
               | sensitivity and the visual acuity are high. This narrows
               | the choice to yellow light, i.e. to sodium, between the
               | alkaline metals.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | The lamps that use alkaline metal vapor instead of a noble
             | gas have better energy efficiency, because of a lower
             | ionization potential, which leads to a lower voltage drop
             | on the lamp. Therefore they have been preferred for
             | lighting instead of neon lamps and the like.
             | 
             | Among alkaline metals, sodium is the cheapest, so it was a
             | logical choice.
             | 
             | However, the fact that it produces light of a suitable
             | color was a happy coincidence. If sodium had produced
             | violet light, like potassium, and potassium had produced
             | yellow light, potassium would have been chosen for lamps.
             | 
             | So among the criteria for choosing sodium for lamps, the
             | color of the light was as important as cost, ionization
             | potential and vapor pressure.
        
             | kmacdough wrote:
             | Two things can be true. And often that's precisely when we
             | lose out with modern engineering that is much more single-
             | minded.
             | 
             | > Their only advantage...
             | 
             | How are you coming to this conclusion?! Their warmer has
             | very meaningful effects on processing, attention and other
             | visual effects as is the point of the discussion in the
             | first place. It's not clear what makes you so sure that
             | color differentiation is essential and the other effects
             | are irrelevant.
             | 
             | No I absolutely don't know what matters. But it seems
             | neither do you.
        
           | throwaway27448 wrote:
           | The posted article seems like credulous commentary, though.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | I miss the aesthetics of the support for the street light
           | themselves too. In Spain they used to be curved with a
           | 'crown' shaped top, looking 'classical' and less hard for the
           | brain as straight lines make the brain really tired. We are
           | used to fractal and curved designs from nature, not to fake
           | perspective points in every city full of straight lines.
           | 
           | These could just reuse the current LED lamps by just
           | redesigning the socket. Altough the materials should be
           | changed as the old ones (I think they were ceramic and/or
           | concrete?) could cause serious harms if they felt over random
           | people walking around. And, yes, they can even break concrete
           | pavement like nothing.
           | 
           | I remember hearing a falling lamp+case near my home and upon
           | falling to the sidewalk it sounded like a bomb, I am no
           | kidding, even the floor vibrated and the windows nearly
           | crashed. These things were really sturdy, either concrete or
           | cement. I would love the same design but in magnesium, which
           | can be lighter and maybe as durable, altough I know
           | ceramic/concrete can withstand anything.
        
           | justonceokay wrote:
           | I wouldn't change it for the world. I grew up in Minneapolis
           | and moved to Seattle, so I went in a single night from sodium
           | lights everywhere in a 500 mile radius to LED. It feels safer
           | (subjective), more pleasant to perform tasks in, and less
           | depressing. I should note I care 0% what the animals think of
           | the whole affair.
           | 
           | This is especially important at high latitudes where for
           | months of the year the street lights provide more
           | illumination than the sun for most working people.
        
           | drzaiusx11 wrote:
           | Another effect observed with LED street lights, especially in
           | my area, is that many have shifted from white light to purple
           | as a widespread manufacturing flaw causes their phosphor
           | coating to fail.
           | 
           | The purple lights evoke a vaporwave/synthwave aesthetic like
           | I'm in a bad 80s scifi movie. Unintentionally appropriate
           | given the general state of things.
        
         | ErroneousBosh wrote:
         | This could do with a little better colour design, but let me
         | just give you this to look at:
         | 
         | https://gjcp.net/plugins/peacock/
         | 
         | Yeah. Skeuomorphism isn't dead. Buttons need to look like
         | buttons. Sliders need to look like sliders.
         | 
         | You just know looking at it that when you click on the little
         | buttons, they pop in slightly as the LEDs go on and off, right?
         | Does it look cheesy and 80s and dated? Yeah it sounds cheesy
         | and 80s and dated too.
        
         | FpUser wrote:
         | Modern designers do not give rat's ass about ergonomics and
         | functionality. Their ultimate design is an empty screen with
         | some light gray color on white text and inability to
         | distinguish between active (can interact with) and info
         | elements
        
         | cade wrote:
         | Ha. I didn't realize until I checked the comments that I worked
         | with Beth in Nashville too! Not sure what that says about how I
         | consume content these days... but she's delightful.
         | 
         | Two of my favorite classes in college were Color Studies and
         | Typography. As a long time back end engineer, I would encourage
         | anyone unfamiliar to spend at least a little bit of time
         | looking into both. If you're at all intrigued, treat yourself
         | to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_S
         | t.... It will forever change how you look at text (hopefully
         | for the better!).
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | Some of the old retired US aircraft carriers have their control
       | rooms painted this color.
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | > _He painted his bedroom walls red vermillion to test if it
       | would make him go mad._
       | 
       |  _And?_ Did it?
        
         | vintermann wrote:
         | I suppose that's up to us to judge
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | Have always been a fan of colors like that for my desktop
       | background. Maybe because it's calming and I don't realize it?
       | 
       | I'm not sure if it started with the teal from Windows 95's
       | default color (hex codes vary based on Google searches), or if it
       | was a purple-ish color from a classic Mac from school.
       | 
       | To this day, my work Mac is teal and my personal is purple.
        
       | ProllyInfamous wrote:
       | #81D8D0 club, represent!
       | 
       | Tiffany green is a Top10 /hn/topbar color _for a reason_.
        
         | buildbot wrote:
         | Mmmm it is quite nice
        
           | ProllyInfamous wrote:
           | You immediately know when you're logged out (because the
           | topbar goes from soothing to _bright orange_ ).
        
         | hkleppe wrote:
         | what, can I change the topbar color?
        
           | hkleppe wrote:
           | aha, so I need more karma
        
           | ProllyInfamous wrote:
           | You'll need 251+ karma _to do so_.
           | 
           | <https://news.ycombinator.com/topcolors>
           | 
           | Apparently _tiffany green_ is only a Top50 contender, these
           | days... a few years ago it had been Top10 (I hadn 't checked
           | again until _this comment_ ).
        
       | kleton wrote:
       | Because chromium III oxide is a very light-fast pigment
        
       | cmoski wrote:
       | Old school SCADA screens that I first saw had a similar green
       | background.
        
       | carabiner wrote:
       | Su-27 fighter cockpit is known for its turquoise paneling that
       | supposedly is to promote calm.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | Yeah I was about to say similar pastel green colors crops up in
         | a lot of Soviet control rooms too.
        
       | karlgkk wrote:
       | > We once went on a tour to spot bald eagles in West Tennessee,
       | and upon arrival, a woman with fluffy hair in the state park
       | bathroom told us she had seen 113 bald eagles the day before. We
       | ended up seeing (counts on one hand)...2.
       | 
       | As a semi professional eagle enjoyer, if the day before was trash
       | day, then she might have been telling the truth. I'm not joking,
       | they have bald eagle proofed dumpsters in Alaska.
       | 
       | They're basically smart seagulls with talons.
        
         | jaggederest wrote:
         | We took a trip to Alaska via RV, and were parked at a roadside.
         | I got up at 11:30pm at "night" (broad daylight) to use the
         | restroom and was so annoyed by the seagulls I went outside to
         | yell at them.
         | 
         | It was eagles fighting over a salmon. They genuinely do sound
         | and act exactly like seagulls.
        
           | csours wrote:
           | And here I assumed they sounded like red-tailed hawks!
        
           | karlgkk wrote:
           | I love watching them interact. I ended up ditching a show in
           | Alaska to sit in a grocery parking lot and watched eagles
           | quarrel for almost two hours. They're great.
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | TL;DR: because mid-20th-century designers believed soft green
       | reduced eye strain and improved focus.
       | 
       | Basically the same nonsensical belief as in regard the dark mode
       | nowadays.
       | 
       | I don't even believe it's true. Green is just an army colour,
       | that's pretty much it. Army uses army colours. Mystery solved.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | It's the color of plants. A field of grass. Etc.
         | 
         | Maybe it even works better with the color of a clear blue sky
         | above it.
         | 
         | Anyway, it's intuitive and not rocket science.
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | As the son of a machine tools salesman, I call the article
         | bullshit. Sometimes things just need to be painted and
         | sometimes you just need that WW2 surplus paint to do the job,
         | with the colour not mattering one bit.
         | 
         | With anything, an academic can thread together a theory that
         | neatly joins the dots to sound feasible, but my bet is that 99%
         | of all engineers are stronger at physics than color theory.
        
           | vajrabum wrote:
           | Uh, I think they didn't use WW2 surplus anything when they
           | build Oak Ridge and Hanford before the end of WW2. I also
           | think given that those two plants were key bits of the
           | Manhattan Project that they didn't cheap out on anything. And
           | the color dude was in fact hired by DuPont who built those
           | two plants and adopted his theories because they increased
           | measured factory productivity and safety. Lastly the OG dude
           | in the article was not an engineer. In fact he was an art
           | school dropout who was very interested in color. So no on the
           | no.
        
         | Ylpertnodi wrote:
         | Why do doctors wear green?
        
           | mc2112 wrote:
           | Green is the opposite color of red (blood) on the color wheel
           | and it was supposed to reduce visual fatigue. I think green
           | scrubs have fallen out of favor in many places, but that was
           | one of the prevailing reasons.
        
         | prewett wrote:
         | I think the reason that I like dark mode is that I have had
         | floaters in my eyes since at least age 14. They stand out
         | against a bright white window background, but I don't notice
         | them at all on a dark window with light text.
         | 
         | Or maybe it's just because that's how IBM PC DOS, BASICA, etc.,
         | as well as the VT100, VT220, VT300s that I used did it.
         | 
         | (Also, I think displays should paint with light, and having a
         | white background is painting darkness on a computer screen.
         | It's particularly bad for presentation slides. A light
         | background just screams "PowerPoint presentation".)
        
       | Terr_ wrote:
       | Seeing all those two-tone walls with green blow and cream above,
       | I bet it isn't coincidental that those tones resemble plants
       | under an overcast outdoor sky.
       | 
       | Either because of unconscious choice, or because some designer
       | theorized that people would be biologically primed to prefer it.
        
         | d-us-vb wrote:
         | The purpose stated in the article in the mind of Birren was to
         | reduce eye strain. I don't think it's so much that humans
         | "prefer" it as such, more that we're very well adapted to work
         | in environments with lots of it.
        
       | Rantenki wrote:
       | While I am sure there are stylistic reasons for using that color,
       | there is another common reason why you see blue-green colors in
       | paint, especially in older industrial environments: zinc
       | chromate/phosphate corrosion protective coatings. Zinc chromate
       | primer is the color you see on the interior surfaces of some
       | aircraft, to inhibit corrosion. Zinc phosphate is more of a gray
       | in most cases, although varying paint chemistries result in a
       | spectrum between those two, with seafoam nearly smack in the
       | middle.
       | 
       | These are still available today, although the chromate version
       | seems less popular for general use due to toxicity, especially (I
       | assume) in the case of a fire.
       | 
       | I have painted quite a few bits of sheet metal with a sea-foam-
       | ish blue-green/gray paint back in the day (30 years or so ago). I
       | don't recall the manufacturer, but it was a zinc conversion
       | coating in nearly exactly that seafoam color, which has probably
       | stolen at least a few years of my life expectancy. The same
       | company sold other paints in a sickly mustard yellow, and close
       | to fire-engine red, all with slightly different chemistries, I
       | assume for different base metals.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | I remember reading a long time ago about why barns / shipping
         | containers are dark red. and IIRC it's simply because it's a
         | very similar tone to iron oxide and thus the dye was cheapest
         | to produce.
        
           | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
           | Not quite right.
           | 
           | Iron oxide is anti-microbial. So a barn painted with it as a
           | pigment will last longer vs mold and such.
           | 
           | It's also why large ships all have that red paint color below
           | the waterline. In that case it's copper oxide, which helps
           | slow barnacle growth and similar.
           | 
           | Back in the age of sail they even went as far as copper sheet
           | cladding to make the wooden hulls last longer. Copper oxide
           | pigment emerged toward the end of the age of sail / beginning
           | of the steamship era as a more practical alternative.
        
         | HerbManic wrote:
         | This reminding me of something my granddad demonstrated once.
         | 
         | He used to work on yachts a fair bit and over the years he
         | noticed the fading patterns for different colour paints.
         | 
         | Yellow paint would fade, red paint would fade. But if you mixed
         | them 50/50 into orange, it wouldn't fade. That's why they had
         | so many orange boats in the bay. Figure that one out.
        
           | Citizen_Lame wrote:
           | It comes down to each pigment acting as a UV shield for the
           | other. Paint fades because specific wavelengths of light
           | (mostly UV and high-energy visible light) break down the
           | chemical bonds in pigment molecules. The key is that
           | different pigments are vulnerable to different wavelengths.
           | 
           | Yellow pigment absorbs blue and violet light. That's what
           | makes it look yellow, it reflects the longer wavelengths and
           | soaks up the shorter ones. But the UV and violet radiation
           | it's absorbing is also what gradually destroys it.
           | 
           | Red pigment does something similar but across a different
           | band, it absorbs greens and shorter wavelengths, and that
           | absorption is what degrades it over time.
           | 
           | When you mix them 50/50 into orange, each pigment is
           | absorbing the wavelengths that would have destroyed the other
           | one.
        
       | next_xibalba wrote:
       | > There's a lot of U.S. history that's awful and indefensible
       | 
       | Sure. But this is not one those things.
        
         | whostolemyhat wrote:
         | Did you read the next sentence?
        
           | NetMageSCW wrote:
           | That's exactly the point. What "this" did you think was being
           | referred to?
        
           | next_xibalba wrote:
           | Yes, of course. Let me clarify:
           | 
           | The implication of the quoted sentence is that the U.S.
           | dropping atomic bombs on Japan was awful and indefensible.
           | The author then transitions to "but I want to talk about part
           | of the Manhattan project that isn't really related to the
           | bombings." What other explanation would there be for
           | inserting this comment about U.S. history?
           | 
           | My comment was addressing the defensibility of the bombings.
           | They may have been awful, but they were fully defensible.
           | Japan was the aggressor, and all indications were that both
           | the U.S. and Japan were going to see millions of casualties
           | as part of an invasion of the home islands.
        
             | wredcoll wrote:
             | I'm not sure how much it really matters but it is mildly
             | annoying when people's brains just shut off when they hear
             | atomic/nuclear.
             | 
             | It's perfectly reasonable to make an argument that they
             | were "not needed" in terms of ending ww2, it's much, much
             | more difficult to argue that fewer people would have died
             | if they weren't used.
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | I'm with you.
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | > "The Manhattan Project created the nuclear bomb that caused
           | extreme devastation in Japan and ended the war. There's a lot
           | of U.S. history that's awful and indefensible."
           | 
           | That's one hell of a non-sequitur. In the immortal words of
           | Inigo Montoya, I do not think that word means what she thinks
           | it means. "The US ended the worst war in human history.
           | Indefensible!"
        
       | pbohun wrote:
       | This makes me think of the color scheme of Plan9. I think they
       | chose that color design for similar reasons.
        
       | imglorp wrote:
       | What's also interesting is the Russians adopted a similar color
       | for aircraft cockpits, eg this MiG 31.
       | https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/2/75332_1265484412.jpg
       | 
       | Meanwhile the Yanks stayed with mil-spec gray on a similar ship,
       | the F-15:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-15_Eagle_Cockpit.jpg
        
       | bennyp101 wrote:
       | I remember when I first started out in a job that I should have a
       | green poster nearby to look at to "relax your eyes" every now and
       | then.
        
       | bloak wrote:
       | Also hospitals, though I think it's called "spinach-leaf green"
       | then.
        
         | emmelaich wrote:
         | Yes, a feature of the movie "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
         | is a sort of sickly green.
         | 
         | I think hospitals have moved entirely away from green, probably
         | because of its association with industry and asylum use.
        
       | heraldgeezer wrote:
       | Why don't we do these things anymore? My office is all grey white
       | desks.
        
         | NetMageSCW wrote:
         | I had our maintenance department custom paint my beige desk
         | black when I moved into my office.
        
       | markdown wrote:
       | LOL I just bought a can of Dulux Sea Foam and one of Dulux Sea
       | Foam Quarter yesterday
        
       | bronlund wrote:
       | "Make a color theme for my terminal based on the Birren and
       | DuPont master color safety code for the industrial plant
       | industry."
        
       | dopatraman wrote:
       | the Burt Reynolds poster
        
         | dubya wrote:
         | Definitely Tom Selleck, aka Magnum PI.
        
       | skyberrys wrote:
       | It's a color of green reminiscent of Tiffany blue, I mean both
       | colors have the intent of the original color but at the same time
       | there is a well washed feel to them. It's both unnatural and
       | expected for the function of these colors.
        
       | microtherion wrote:
       | I wonder whether that was the inspiration for the extensive use
       | of green in the interiors of Severance.
        
       | ktokarev wrote:
       | good one, UX matters indeed
        
       | abcde666777 wrote:
       | Funny - one of those things you don't really wonder about until
       | someone points it out, but which proves pretty interesting once
       | you're aware of it.
        
       | rodface wrote:
       | Thank you for this share, because it rings close to another
       | fascination of mine: the shade of green/teal that is the panel
       | color of a great many Soviet aircraft cockpits. It's not the same
       | as the shade of these industrial control panels[1], but it seems
       | to me that they are in a family together. I would include the
       | Windows 95 default background color in that same family; I find
       | it relaxing enough that I still use it today. :)
       | 
       | [1]https://www.google.com/images?q=soviet%20aircraft%20cockpits
        
       | 6bb32646d83d wrote:
       | I was just visiting the cold war era nuclear ICBM control room
       | bunker in Arizona and noticed this color everywhere. Timely
       | article!
       | 
       | https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54f84e69e4b021...
        
       | 6510 wrote:
       | Between real jobs I once worked at a factory that paid the bare
       | minimum wages, gave zero hour contracts and had the most unstable
       | work hours I've ever seen. People who weren't needed showed up
       | only to be send home, people who weren't planned for the day were
       | suppose to be ready to jump in the entire day only to not be
       | called for 3 weeks. They did shit like send one out of a team of
       | 6 home just to see if 5 people could still do it. They would go
       | out of their way to keep up for example for 2-4 hours but
       | couldn't so someone else was called in for the last two hours.
       | 
       | I asked about the horizontal colored bars painted on the wall in
       | the lunch room. It was the strangest selection of colors. Each
       | bar about a fist width. It seemed someone went out of their way
       | to invent the most boring bland colors possible.
       | 
       | They told me the factory had spend over 100 k on a color expert
       | to increase productivity. Everyone who worked there for some time
       | knew this.
       | 
       | I thought I'd observe the effect. Someone was released from the
       | factory floor for 10 minutes because they by accident worked
       | enough hours in a row to be entitled to a lunch break, in their
       | own time of course.
       | 
       | They sat down at a table carefully positioned to look straight at
       | the color bars. And then it started! I could see on their face
       | their internal dialog as if talking with the hundred thousand
       | euro color consultant. The sandwich went only half way up to
       | their mouth and they slipped into a catatonic state looking at
       | the colors.
       | 
       | It was facinating, I just had to see more. Turned out half the
       | factory had this moment with this colored wall!
       | 
       | I didn't have to ask them what that expression was. I could look
       | at the wall myself and the internal dialog stated immediately:
       | _How the fuck do they expect me to pay my bills if I have to wait
       | by the phone all week but only get two 3 hour shifts? Why did
       | they have to spend a hundred thousand on colors to make me more
       | productive?_
       | 
       | It was impossible to think anything else. It was almost a
       | blessing to go back to the high speed conveyor belt. If I didn't
       | see it myself I wouldn't believe color theory works in magical
       | ways.
        
       | themafia wrote:
       | The poster of Magnum P.I. really tied the place together dude.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | My mom had that exact poster in her home-office.
        
       | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
       | > I designed a font called "Parts List"
       | 
       | ... that just screams "green plastic stencil ruler"
        
       | beedle_mcdeedle wrote:
       | I work as an automation technician for my province's electrical
       | utility in Quebec Canada and all the hydro dams in my region
       | still use this color for the control room paneling! I work in and
       | around this color every day and it hasn't gotten old yet. The
       | dams have been around for nearly a century and I've always
       | appreciated their old industrial vibe.
        
       | paradox460 wrote:
       | Growing up in Los Alamos, it's not just the lab that adhered to
       | this color standard. Everything that had any vague connection to
       | government, be it the post office, hospital, county council
       | building, public access TV station, and schools were all colored
       | in these various colors. And many things that weren't connected
       | directly still used them, likely because they bought paint as
       | surplus. One of a few elevators in town, part of a small shopping
       | center, was sea foam, as were the lamp posts along downtown
       | streets, and finally, the doors in the Posse Shack were also
       | green, but that's likely because they were directly taken from
       | the lab
        
         | pvab3 wrote:
         | Not even just Los Alamos. It was a very common color for
         | schools and hospitals
        
           | paradox460 wrote:
           | When we moved away, the new schools and such didn't have that
           | color. Either the grey fad was just taking root at that time,
           | or it hadn't penetrated the tri cities (home to the Hanford
           | project) quite as well as it did Los Alamos
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | The old forniture in my Elementary school (the whole 90's)
           | had that green tone until ~1998-1999.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | To me, it's very evocative of mid-century industrial design.
       | Detroit Diesel painted their engines a similar color too,
       | although theirs is called "Alpine Green". ("Seafoam" brings to
       | mind the engine additive too.)
        
       | vharuck wrote:
       | >In the fall of 1919, Faber Birren entered the Art Institute at
       | the University of Chicago, only to drop out in the spring of 1921
       | to commit himself to self-education in color, as such a program
       | didn't exist.
       | 
       | The German word for color is "Farbe," which is an anagram of this
       | guy's name. So I'm chalking one more point up to the universe
       | being a simulation written by a cheeky developer.
        
       | ydj wrote:
       | Funny, when I got tired of trying to find a nice desktop
       | background I just started using a solid color of muted blue or
       | green. I never read about this specific usage of colors before
       | but I bet I saw something somewhere that clued me in on this
       | color.
        
         | biofox wrote:
         | Reminding me that early Windows versions used to have this
         | colour as the default desktop colour -- and I remember seeing
         | similar tones on Mac and Unix desktops in the 90s.
         | 
         | https://faculty.washington.edu/ajko/books/user-interface-sof...
        
       | jnellis wrote:
       | The 68 Ford Thunderbird (w/ suicide doors.) Mustangs also came in
       | this color. https://imgur.com/a/BbzHVMn
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | Wait, what? Ending the war in Japan was "indefensible"?
        
       | cjohnson318 wrote:
       | I went to an old engineering school for grad school, all the
       | older buildings had this color scheme.
        
       | xyzzy123 wrote:
       | Great discussion on colour theory but I think it skips over the
       | fact that chemistry and economics were also real constraints.
       | Paints that don't fade easily, chemically inert, durable etc and
       | can be produced in enormous volume are not that common. Practical
       | stuff like, how easy does it catch fire, do solvents degrade it.
       | Most important: is it CHEAP?
       | 
       | Also by 1944 there would have been a ready made supply chain due
       | to demand from the navy, which would have picked it for similar
       | reasons and consumed it in enormous volume.
       | 
       | I think, practically, control rooms are chrome oxide green (you
       | get to add as much titanium as you like - thats cheap as dirt too
       | EDIT: it would have been lead actually in the 40s) for much the
       | same reason that barns are red.
        
         | justonceokay wrote:
         | I doubt the manhattan project had an issue funding paint
        
           | xyzzy123 wrote:
           | Think for a minute about why they worked in shacks.
           | 
           | Also worth noting that Birren was a paid consultant for
           | DuPont - the company that made the paint. From that
           | perspective alone you would kinda expect he is gonna pick
           | colours they already produce reliably at scale.
           | 
           | He also consulted for army, coast guard and navy so whatever
           | colours you pick for hazard marking in an industrial setting
           | have to be _vaguely_ congruent or you're going to cause
           | accidents.
        
       | rippeltippel wrote:
       | Many primary school classrooms in Italy had walls painted in that
       | same colour, likely for the same reason.
        
       | ourmandave wrote:
       | At the end...
       | 
       |  _PS: I have an old friend whose dad still works at the Uranium
       | plant in Oak Ridge. I told him that I was surprised that almost
       | all of the facilities had been torn down, and he just looked at
       | me straight in the face and said, "Who said it's actually gone?"
       | Noted._
        
       | razkaplan wrote:
       | My autonomous YT show picked this thread up for today's episode
       | -- worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61BRALSFJxU
        
       | anymouse123456 wrote:
       | Lots of old machinery from the era (Mills, Lathes, and such) also
       | carried these colors.
       | 
       | Truly beautiful.
        
       | theodorethomas wrote:
       | Apollo Command Module interior colour is similar, and gorgeous.
        
       | gorfian_robot wrote:
       | I reported this to 99pi as an Article of Interest
        
       | NoSalt wrote:
       | I was in the Air Force back in the late '80s, and SO MANY of the
       | old equipment I worked with fit quite nicely into this color
       | scheme. I can almost smell the old electronics now. It also
       | reminds me of the AWESOME aesthetic that is the nixie tube.
        
       | mprovost wrote:
       | It looks like almost the same colour of those David Clark
       | headsets which seem to be ubiquitous in airplane cockpits or
       | helicopters. It's even the background of their corporate logo.
        
       | bensonn wrote:
       | It looked like Google Maps to me so I made a comparison. What is
       | old is new again? https://imgur.com/a/b6HCx78
        
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