[HN Gopher] Slovenian officials blame Israeli firm Black Cube fo...
___________________________________________________________________
Slovenian officials blame Israeli firm Black Cube for trying to
manipulate vote
https://archive.ph/LwhOj https://www.politico.eu/article/black-
cube-leak-tape-corrupt...
Author : cramsession
Score : 511 points
Date : 2026-03-25 16:24 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| Terr_ wrote:
| Alternate source due to paywall:
| https://www.politico.eu/article/black-cube-leak-tape-corrupt...
| fidotron wrote:
| "The SDS says the recordings -- which feature a former
| minister, a top lawyer and other prominent figures -- are proof
| of corruption at the highest levels of Slovenian society; while
| Golob's supporters say the scandal is evidence that Jansa is
| collaborating with foreign entities to retake power."
|
| Sounds like they're all just different brands of scum.
| catlikesshrimp wrote:
| If I had a choice in my country, and all else being equal, I
| would prefer the scum not supporting either Israel or Russia
| mrkstu wrote:
| Yeah, what studiously seems to be absent is a denial of the
| contents of the recording. Kind of as if Nixon's Watergate
| burglars had found damning evidence of Democratic
| shenanigans- just a melee between dirty handed criminals all
| around.
| gregopet wrote:
| First let me say that any corruption admitted to in those
| recordings should be prosecuted immediately, no question
| about it.
|
| But really, the admissions were really nothing much, I'm
| actually surprised that's all they got. The former minister
| was forced to resign under allegations of corruption and
| was/is under investigation for it, no big surprise. And the
| talk about having access to Ljubljana's mayor (and that he is
| "for sale") - well that's been in the news for years, he's
| under several open investigations and many more were already
| closed (he always comes out victorious - either because he's
| innocent and it's all just hearsay, or more likely because
| he's extremely good at dodging liability and covering his
| tracks). The rest is just people who used to have some power
| trying to appear like they still have in order to impress a
| potential employer or get a business deal (that was the
| agents' cover).
|
| Again, I hope the authorities are combing the tapes for
| evidence, but it really wasn't anything bombastic. That the
| Israelis were doing this on the other hand...
| hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:
| I wonder when people will stop being scared to speak out. Is it
| once they lose their job due to stolen data? Is it once Palantir
| decides they are a threat and they lose their freedom? Is it once
| they lose their own land? Is it after starting the 10th war?
| crimsoneer wrote:
| At the risk of stating the obvious, Black Cube is an actual
| private intelligence firm that sells spy services [1], while
| Palantir is a software firm that sells software (even if that
| software is used by intelligence, gov, etc). You can go spin up
| a free Foundry instance [2] and test it, and it doesn't have
| secret buttons to imprison people.
|
| [1] https://www.blackcube.com/
|
| [2] https://www.palantir.com/developers/
| kennywinker wrote:
| And yet both these technologies are being used to subvert
| democracy and suppress opposition... almost like it doesn't
| need to be fully automated fascism to be fascistic.
| jschrf wrote:
| Kind of them to put the evil right in the name.
| ks2048 wrote:
| Yes, they are master hackers - they even hacked the scrollbar
| on their web page.
| verdverm wrote:
| NoKings is this weekend, millions are speaking out together
| tremon wrote:
| Yes. The problem is, it is only this weekend.
| verdverm wrote:
| 1. It's the first of the year, there will be more NoKings
|
| 2. There are many more protest besides NoKings
|
| 3. Direct Action is better than no action. We only vote
| once every 1/2/4 years. This helps get people moving, to
| take their first steps. Case in point, this year I am
| printing whistles and information
| kelipso wrote:
| Lol. These NoKings protests are so incredibly pathetic and
| ineffective. These bunch of airheads standing on the side of
| a road or bridge with close to non-existent foot traffic so
| there is not the smallest possibility of them inconveniencing
| anyone.
|
| What are they even expecting their so called protests to
| achieve anyway. These people have absolutely no goals or
| plans to have any. Guess it's a way for them to have an
| roadside party instead of whinging about politics online lol.
| cbcoutinho wrote:
| https://archive.ph/LwhOj
| greenavocado wrote:
| Joel Zamel, an Israeli intelligence veteran, led the Israeli
| intel company Psy-Group, which worked closely with Netanyahu and
| the Trump campaign circle, including Steve Bannon and Jared
| Kushner.
|
| Psy-Group partnered with Cambridge Analytica (later Emerdata) to
| influence the 2016 US elections using social media data.
|
| The Black Cube intel firm, staffed by former Mossad agents, was
| employed by Cambridge Analytica, which was involved in harvesting
| Facebook data.
|
| Harvey Weinstein Hired ex-Mossad Agents to Track Women Accusing
| Him of Sexual Assault
|
| Weinstein hired Israeli firm Black Cube to research his accusers
| and to scuttle reports of his sexual abuse
|
| Black Cube operatives posed as activists, abuse victims and
| sources for journalists
|
| https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-11-07/ty-article/report...
| shevy-java wrote:
| Israel really needs to stop interfering in other countries'
| elections. That's not acceptable. We don't interfere when their
| population votes for warcriminals either.
| afavour wrote:
| This isn't Israel the state, it's a private company that's
| based in Israel.
| chiengineer wrote:
| Oh thats adorable
| asadm wrote:
| gee I wonder what does the private company gain from defaming
| another country's "pro-Palestine" party.
| afavour wrote:
| ...money?
|
| My point is a simple one: the company was hired by someone.
| Was it the opposition party? To say this is entirely
| Israel's doing implies the Slovenian party that benefits
| just happens to have gotten lucky. The reality is likely
| considerably murkier than that.
| bigyabai wrote:
| To say that this is entirely the Slovenian party's fault
| implies that Israel cannot govern their own state. Both
| are complicit.
| margalabargala wrote:
| > implies that Israel cannot govern their own state
|
| Or more simply that what the Israeli company did, is not
| illegal in Israel.
| bigyabai wrote:
| I can guarantee you that it is very illegal if you target
| the wrong government.
|
| Selective prosecution is a recurring issue under Israeli
| jurisprudence.
| margalabargala wrote:
| Okay, sure. Is Slovenia the wrong government?
| vrganj wrote:
| Would Black Cube have accepted a client that was very
| pro-Palestinian and was trying to lure voters away from
| the pro-Israel party?
| wat10000 wrote:
| And to say it's not Israel's doing implies that Israel
| just happens to have gotten lucky.
| tsimionescu wrote:
| Any company that sells this type of services exists as an
| extension of its parent state. Any contract it offers,
| especially to a political entity in another state, will
| be scrutinized by state authorities and allowed by them
| or not. Sometimes, those contracts will be forced on the
| company based on state-level negotiations.
|
| Noone is saying that the party that contracted this
| company (if indeed it was a Slovenian party and not the
| Israeli state itself) for this service doesn't carry
| blame. But both the company itself and the state of
| Israel carry just as much blame for offering, permitting,
| and carrying out such services.
|
| By your logic, if someone were to found a legal private
| paid assassin company in France, and then the opposition
| party in Germany hired this company to assassinate the
| German chancellor, you'd say that it's unfair for Germany
| to blame France for this.
| amarcheschi wrote:
| That's like saying that Raytheon doesn't advance US interests
| in the world
| postsantum wrote:
| NED is not a CIA front sweatie, it's just a private institute
| mrexcess wrote:
| >NED is not a CIA front sweatie
|
| Curious: can you show the research steps you took to reach
| this conclusion? Really curious how we can all easily
| determine which companies are and aren't CIA fronts!
| tsimionescu wrote:
| If you think for a second that the Israeli state allows this
| company to sell its services to anyone who is opposed to
| their interests, you really don't understand how defense
| companies and states work.
| vrganj wrote:
| Sure, a private company that just happens to have had
| multiple former Mossad directors on their board.
|
| Coincidences are funny sometimes :-)
| akudha wrote:
| So many countries (Russia is reported to be helping Orban, for
| example) meddle in other countries' affairs, even when it
| doesn't affect them at all, directly or indirectly. These days
| a lot of damage can be done online (propaganda, riling people
| up, fake news etc) for very little money - how does one even
| begin to counter this? Especially if you are a small
| country/poor with limited resources
| fweimer wrote:
| Is "we" referring to the United States?
|
| Sheldon Adelson's backing helped Netanyahu a lot, and not just
| by funding the free Israel Hayom newspaper (which generally
| assumes a right-wing, pro-Netanyahu editorial stance).
| seydor wrote:
| Israel has created a whole industry around "politics" as a
| service. Between rampant spying in multiple countries using
| Predator etc and slimy campaings like this, you can buy
| governments for an increasingly affordable price.
| 6510 wrote:
| It might be cheaper than we think.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSM-JOzL_uU
| tristanMatthias wrote:
| I'm SO surprised more people don't know about this... I'm
| always dismissed when I say the elections are rigged.
| 6510 wrote:
| I once made a list of various issues raised in various
| elections in various countries. The instances describe a
| whole spectrum of cheating. The only consistent factor is
| that no one believes there was cheating. The funniest was
| an order to change punchcards that made the holes not line
| up. People still found room to not see a problem with it.
| chiengineer wrote:
| At this point its extremely clear and important to understand
|
| It doesnt matter how men, bodies / hours / time / millions and
| billions you spend building a defensive
|
| They will infiltrate with less than 500k
|
| And come out on top
|
| 100% of the time
|
| This is a fundamental human problem that needs fixing across the
| entire planet
|
| It does not matter what country or secret groups are involved or
| how much life or death is truly at stake
|
| There is a 100000% chance some dumbass is willing to fuck if all
| up for a small bribe
| 6510 wrote:
| We should have some benchmark project that bluntly describes
| the issues with each democracy. Like, did elected officials
| dramatically change in appearance (length, ears, nose, teeth,
| chin, eyes), election agenda points that don't match execution,
| issues with method of voting, issues with vote counting etc
| bilekas wrote:
| Am I mistaken but in theory aren't Solvenia and Isreal
| technically allies ?
|
| I'm not naive to believe intelligence agencies don't target each
| other in many ways, but general voting interference seems quite
| brazzen. I would love to see an example being made out of them
| here.
|
| That said, bar sanctions, Isreali 'private' companies like this
| seem to have carte blanch on whatever they want to do. No
| sanctions, no fines, not even investigations will happen I fear.
| seydor wrote:
| How are they technically allies? Israel is not in eu or nato.
|
| If you mean broadly, western-minded, yes but slovenia expressed
| some uncomfortable positions for israel lately
| bilekas wrote:
| > yes but slovenia expressed some uncomfortable positions for
| Israel lately
|
| hasn't everyone though ? Does that mean Isreal is in the
| clear to interfere ?
|
| > Israel is not in eu or nato. No of course not, but there is
| an alignment technically, I guess the western minded.
|
| Ireland is not a NATO member but there would be some backlash
| from hearing Isreal was interfearing in elections.
| seydor wrote:
| No, most of the EU has not condemned the atrocities in
| Gaza. Slovenia did, it recognized Palestine and banned
| weapon sales
| CodingJeebus wrote:
| > but general voting interference seems quite brazzen.
|
| It's also not a new tactic. During his '68 presidential
| campaign against Lyndon Johnson, Nixon convinced the South
| Vietnamese to not engage in peace talks with the Communists to
| weaken Johnson's campaign. The war went on for 7 more years and
| killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and Vietnamese.
|
| https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/yes-nixon-sc...
| megous wrote:
| When it comes to IL most of the EU's countries leadership
| strategy comes down to getting willingly fucked and getting
| their population fucked for literally no benefit, just so that
| elites will not be temporarily called "anti-semitic".
|
| It's nuts. Israel's idea of being an ally is fucking all their
| allies over, with useless war they can't win but that will
| erase and reverse within a few weeks all benefit countries like
| mine (Czechia) ever derived from a bilateral trade with them,
| just based on increased energy prices alone. (Compared to
| Slovenia, it's well deserved here, though. Czechs should
| suffer, to learn.)
|
| This little stuff, like meddling in elections, is nothing,
| compared to big effects of IL state policy.
|
| Israel doesn't have allies aside from US, they nurture a herd
| of masochist sycophant states.
| jmyeet wrote:
| I want to talk about Ticketmaster.
|
| People hate Ticketmaster. For good reason. TM throws on all these
| fees, clearly engages in third-party selling, makings buying
| difficult and jacks up prices. All of this is known. But what's
| less known is that artists, especially big artists, _like_
| Ticketmaster. Why? Because TM is a sacrificial anode. It takes
| all the hate but adding junk fees that in part go to the artist.
| The artist can say they 're selling seats from as low as $20 in
| press releases while the least they will get for a seat is $30
| because of all the fees.
|
| Being hated is a service you can sell because it takes away
| attention from what you're doing. You get to blame this third-
| party but you're still absolutely complicit in everything they're
| doing. You see where this is going?
|
| Israel is America's Ticketmaster. Anything bad that Israel or an
| Israeli firm does, the US could end today with a phone call by
| simply saying "we're cutting off aid if you don't stop doing".
| The price of this is to be the sacrificial anode for what is
| actually American foreign policy. There are well-funded and
| organized efforts to whitewash Israel's reputation and those were
| successful up until the last few years.
|
| Israel is a huge supplier of spyware eg Pegasus [1]. Despotic
| regimes use this to spy on journalists and opposition figures and
| has likely been used to locate and kill them. You think we
| couldn't stop that? Of course we can. But we like that because,
| again, Israel takes the heat.
|
| So Israel interfering in Slovenia's elections is the least
| surprising thing I've heard. I'd be surprised if it wasn't true.
| You will find Israeli influence in probably every election.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)
| rafram wrote:
| I'm not a fan of comparing a cruel, genocidal government to a
| site that jacks up the prices on concert tickets, personally.
| margalabargala wrote:
| Your broader point is true but the characterization of Israel
| as an extension of America is not.
|
| Israel is happy to be the sacrificial anode for more or less
| _anyone_ willing to pay and not immediately counter to Israel
| 's own geopolitical interests. This is a service they offer to
| the world, not just America.
|
| America simply happens to be the largest customer among many.
| throw310822 wrote:
| > This is a service they offer to the world, not just
| America.
|
| It's a service that they offer first and foremost to
| themselves and against anyone else, including America.
| windowliker wrote:
| Who would be the Terry A. Davis of Israel-as-Ticketmaster?
| mattfrommars wrote:
| Yeah, I've come to the same realization. Israel does the dirty
| work for the US and they take all the heat. If the U.S. really
| wanted Israel to stop, all they need to do is take out special
| privileges Israel gets and put down economic sanctions.
| throw310822 wrote:
| > If the U.S. really wanted Israel to stop
|
| But could they? You are somehow assuming that all this "dirty
| work" as you call it is only done on behalf of others and not
| used to ensure continued ("unwavering") support for
| themselves.
| focusgroup0 wrote:
| As the Qatari emir said in the wake of the recent Middle
| Eastern conflict, it's clear who's running the show
| geopolitically. Cui bono?
| rekrsiv wrote:
| I agree with everything you said except that the US is able to
| stop it. Think about it: Wouldn't Israel simply use these same
| tools in the US to install a puppet president they can easily
| manipulate?
|
| Can we even prove it hasn't already happened?
| underlipton wrote:
| All of this might be true if Israel didn't have undue influence
| over the American officials who are authorized to pick up that
| phone. But they do, and so the phone doesn't get picked up.
|
| Also, if your parable about Ticketmaster were true. But it
| isn't. Most artists do indeed dislike them; the paltry kickback
| isn't worth the... bad blood... it sends their way. And it's
| weird that your read is that most artists secretly hold their
| fans in contempt. I don't know what kind of person just assumes
| that of others, except that they're that way themselves, maybe.
| chimpanzee2 wrote:
| Doesn't matter, half of HN will still defend them.
| GZGavinZhao wrote:
| Always baffles me why some people think and act like being
| proud of their state/country/race and criticizing its actions
| are mutually exclusive.
| Jerrrrrrrry wrote:
| Because its actions are exclusively critiquable and little to
| commiserate.
| sp4cec0wb0y wrote:
| Tell my fellow Americans this too.
| Tostino wrote:
| This site definitely has a cohort of completely unhinged war
| mongers. The same names (and a bunch of random new accounts)
| never fail to show up to defend genocide or any other
| atrocities being committed.
| epolanski wrote:
| This board sure attracts hordes of alt right apologists and
| anarcho capitalists.
|
| And in general a huge lack of empathy and obsession with
| power and money.
|
| I guess it's normal given the coupling to the #1 VC incubator
| of the #1 country that obsesses over power and money.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| You either find some of the most humble, down to earth,
| open source contributing people who value human life in it
| of itself within this forum who share as much knowledge/try
| to do good for the world, or you find people as you mention
| who completely disregard the previous ideals. There isn't
| much in-between.
|
| I do think that there is some utilitarian aspect to it.
| Some people might genuinely believe that the losses to
| human livelihoods/human lives because of AI (yes even with
| these AI drones now with the deal @OpenAI), the end reality
| would still make everything worth it and within this
| distorted view of the future, they believe that everything
| happening in present is alright for the future and that
| itself can be used to propose some disgusting idea like
| eugenics which people might become okay with, as such.
|
| And its very easy to switch somewhere within the past of a
| person being the former to the latter through the ladder
| steps of altruism to transhumanism to essentially the
| things we hear from AI hypebros. All the while, a benefit
| is that especially right now, selling AI sells for profit
| right now whereas people can question about the morality
| later/justify it through these distorted lenses that I
| mentioned.
|
| Worth a watch, Can't recommend this video enough,
|
| AI is a Eugenics Project :
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SSxfa3da58
| epolanski wrote:
| I'm quite convinced that Israelis have an edge in communication
| and socials.
|
| And god forbid how easily you're labeled as anti semitic for
| bringing up facts about Israeli spying and lobbying in the
| west.
|
| Hell, in Italy, neo nazi hooligans go protest _for Israel_ with
| hundreds of police defending them.
|
| Whereas genuine pro Palestinian protests (99 times out of 100
| peaceful) met nothing but batons and condemnation.
|
| Even the tv narratives about these events is disgusting.
|
| It's clear the Israelis know how to do their job.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| > Doesn't matter, half of HN will still defend them.
|
| And I would say half can't/won't speak about this. I try to
| stray away from these discussions sometimes because I feel
| worried that someone is going to take any comment out of
| context within these messages which is a bit of a strange way
| of self censorship actually and I feel like I might not be the
| only one. It's also worth mentioning that I have found this to
| be the case especially for Israel.
|
| For example, I feel valid criticizing the current American
| Regime and Americans themselves would agree with me at a a much
| higher proportion/magnitude compared to Israel in which from my
| small sample bias of online acquaintances, I only had one
| Jewish (Living in America, not Israeli) person agree that
| Israel is doing some pretty horrendous things and although do
| take this with a grain of salt as something they told me but
| they said that Zionism and Antisemitism are effectively
| something comparable as within the Jewish religion, There is an
| idea of the world hating the Jews as being a pre-condition
| within Jewish religion for them to win within the end-times
| theology of the jewish faith.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog I think they were
| referencing this: Zechariah 14:2 states, "I will gather all the
| nations to Jerusalem to fight against it." The idea is that the
| Jewish people will have no earthly allies left.
| dadoum wrote:
| Recently, there were municipal elections in France, and there was
| Israeli interference there as well [0] (the article is pay-walled
| and in French but it's written in the title at least).
|
| [0]: https://www.lecanardenchaine.fr/politique/53391-la-
| campagne-...
| port11 wrote:
| Given the current sentiment towards Israel in most of Europe,
| manipulating elections might not be the cleverest way to win
| our sympathy again.
| yostrovs wrote:
| Europeans give too much value to their sympathies. Given that
| it's now clear to anyone that will open their eyes that there
| is no international law, Europe ends up looking like an old
| grandpa yelling at the clouds, powerless to actually do
| something. Sympathies are not enough.
| refulgentis wrote:
| Sympathies translate into trade policy, arms embargoes,
| diplomatic recognition, and votes at international bodies.
| The idea that soft power is meaningless because it isn't a
| missile is a contradiction in terms. Europe is Israel's
| largest trade partner. That's not nothing.
|
| Also, "there is no international law" is a strange argument
| to make in defense of a country that spends enormous
| resources lobbying international institutions and running
| influence ops in allied democracies. If none of it
| mattered, why bother?
| bonzini wrote:
| > If none of it mattered, why bother?
|
| Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Republicans and
| missiles being the best.
| yzydserd wrote:
| To many fellow Europeans, the "old grandpa shouting at the
| clouds" is perceived to be some other entity.
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| "Black Cube" - wonder what they're going for there. Maybe
| "Sinister Obelisk" was taken.
| TinyRick wrote:
| Black cube is a common form of symbolism in occult/Kabbalah
| traditions
| gunapologist99 wrote:
| As well as Islam (the Kaaba).
| cr125rider wrote:
| They wanted everyone to know they are the bad guys, just like
| Black Rock.
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| It works, to be honest - I would never let Beige Rock manage
| my money.
| p0w3n3d wrote:
| Black Rock Black Stone... Maybe even Black Dodecahedron
| someday
| underlipton wrote:
| Just more cultural appropriation. Black Cube, Blackrock,
| Blackstone... And not a black person in sight. Someone even
| took Blackstreet _which was already ours_. /s
| vrganj wrote:
| Israel under Netanyahu is part of the international
| antidemocratic axis of imperialist autocracy.
|
| Other members, in no particular order:
|
| Orban, Trump, Putin, Babis, Thiel, Bolsonaro, Ellison, Milei,
| Nawrocki.
|
| These gentlemen (and of course they're all men) constitute the
| 21st century axis of evil, responsible for most of the
| backsliding and worsening of rule of law around the world.
| flir wrote:
| Not Meloni, then?
| vrganj wrote:
| This list might be non-exhaustive. Good point on Meloni,
| she's a bit of a special case. Turns out women can be evil,
| too!
| tremon wrote:
| Was there any doubt of that after Maxwell, Noem, Bondi?
| (Or, keeping with the same theme,
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irma_Grese)
| kotaKat wrote:
| Hey now, there's a few axis girlbosses out there! Don't forget
| Sana's skin in the game.
| eithed wrote:
| Nawrocki is just incompetent (and to be fair that was his
| selling point for PiS). Now - Kaczynski, that's where true evil
| lies
| reducesuffering wrote:
| Milei though? His social views, eccentric behavior, and seeing
| other right wing leaders as kindred spirits is unfortunate.
|
| However, practically and policy-wise, what has he done that's
| antidemocratic or imperialist? He's repeatedly democratically
| elected, as part of the people's mandate to fix their economy,
| and despite leftwing hang-wringing it'll never work, all data
| seems to point to their economy getting better.
| _zoltan_ wrote:
| and Russia is now doing the same in Hungary... :(
| ajewhere wrote:
| Russia has no resorces to do that, no matter how many times you
| retell the myth about "troll factories", "Russia did Brexit"
| and all the other lies / half truths which US, UK, Israel and
| other western states told and continue to tell to divert the
| attention from the enormous scale of their propaganda industry.
| zug_zug wrote:
| It seems to me that interfering in a foreign election should be
| understood to be grounds for war.
| nextos wrote:
| Yes, and the EU, due to this fragmentation, seems to be a
| fertile playground for all this unacceptable interference by
| foreign powers.
| tremon wrote:
| Actually, no. The decentralization of power means that it
| takes a lot more effort to subvert each country individually,
| rather than propping up a few candidates for the entire
| region like they do in the US.
| tempaccount420 wrote:
| They only need one country for veto rights.
| nextos wrote:
| Exactly, see what is happening in Hungary.
|
| Controlling Hungary is enough to veto some support for
| Ukraine.
| snackbroken wrote:
| The EU is perfectly capable of collaborating even when it
| can't reach full consensus or when it wants to include
| peripheral states without them becoming full members. See
| for example the Schengen area, Eurozone, European
| Economic Area, and more recently (and specifically to
| circumvent member state vetos) when the enhanced
| cooperation procedures were invoked to lend money to
| Ukraine.
| close04 wrote:
| That's true but that fragmentation is also what limits the
| propagation of fractures. You can see it like sandboxing.
|
| A deal with foreign intelligence is a dead with the devil
| that comes with a lifetime of subservience. And subservience
| to foreign powers is a greater evil than yo usual internal
| corruption. At least the locally corrupt in a democracy have
| _some_ interest in things going somewhat well in their
| country. The foreign actors only care about theirs.
| amelius wrote:
| No because any attempt at interference would in that case
| trigger article 5 of NATO.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _interfering in a foreign election should be understood to be
| grounds for war_
|
| Requires a rigorous definition of interference.
|
| The allegations here--trying to catch politicians on tape being
| sleazy and then releasing them with sketchy editing-doesn't
| seem to rise to the level of calling for a kinetic response.
| armchairhacker wrote:
| Russia and China are definitely interfering in the US (to
| spread discord, ex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_interf
| erence_in_the_20...), so should the US formally declare war
| against them?
|
| What I _do_ think is that nations should 1) interfere back, and
| 2) make their citizens more resilient to foreign propaganda.
| And I specifically don 't mean building a firewall. In fact do
| the opposite: if a firewalled nation is leaking out propaganda,
| ensure firewall-breaking tools leak in.
| fromMars wrote:
| No idea why this is being downvoted. It seems only en-vogue
| on HN voice outrage about Israel.
| everdrive wrote:
| If this were really taken seriously there would be much more
| war.
| epolanski wrote:
| It's insane the power and influence Israelis have.
|
| In the US it's blatant, from the insane amounts of money and
| weaponry sent to Israel (why are american taxpayers subsidizing
| Israel exactly? It's not like they are neither poor nor US owes
| them) to the recent events in the middle east.
|
| But even in Europe. Here in Italy the coalition government has
| multiple high profile politicians that just happen to be
| shareholders or CEOs of security companies owned by Israelis. And
| just so it happens that the same security and communication
| companies get lots of work by the Italian government. And when
| journalists brought this up because they didn't report it to
| neither the government nor parliament, nothing happened anyway.
|
| It's a scandal really, but if you write or say it, you're labeled
| as anti semitic, so criticizing and surfacing this terrible stuff
| is always controversial.
| bawolff wrote:
| > why are american taxpayers subsidizing Israel exactly?
|
| The same reason USA is subsidizing half the middle eastern
| countries - its a strategic location near extremely important
| transit routes, near important resources, and right between
| major powers so the region doesn't squarely fall in any major
| power's sphere of influence and thus up to be influenced.
|
| I dont know why all these conspiracy theories think the
| usa<->israel relationship is so strange, but dont blink at the
| relationship usa has with egypt, uae, saudi arabia, bharain,
| etc.
| cramsession wrote:
| We primarily fund the other Middle Eastern countries to keep
| Israel safe. Were it not for Israel, we would just have
| normal diplomatic relations with them.
| beloch wrote:
| I wouldn't go that far. The U.S. and other European powers
| have a long history of involvement in Middle East politics.
| Significant parts of the Middle East were once parts of
| various European empires. Many of them gained their
| independence only to find there were still a lot of strings
| and (pipe)lines of exploitation attached.
|
| The U.S. did more than its fair share to glom onto those
| lines of exploitation and keep them alive at the expense of
| locals. e.g. Iran is what it is today because of U.S. oil
| interests. The CIA installed an authoritarian Shah when
| Iran's (at the time) democratic government started taking
| control of its own oil industry (American oil companies
| would have had to start paying taxes). Rule under the Shah
| was "unpleasant" for Iranians and revolution was the direct
| response. Hence, theocracy.
|
| Israel is a special case in the Middle East. The zionist
| movement gained state sponsors and convinced European
| powers (and the U.S.) to pour money _in_ instead of sucking
| it _out_. How they did that is a question that stretches
| back well into the 19th century. I 'd argue that a lot of
| it was the result of people who had their hearts in the
| right places. Things just went sideways when it came to
| Israelis and Palestinians co-existing peacefully. At least
| some of the idealists of the early zionist movement
| honestly believed the influx of Jewish people would be a
| benefit to Arabs already living in Palestine.
| cramsession wrote:
| > _Things just went sideways when it came to Israelis and
| Palestinians co-existing peacefully. At least some of the
| idealists of the early zionist movement honestly believed
| the influx of Jewish people would be a benefit to Arabs
| already living in Palestine._
|
| Teodore Hertzl (Zionism's founder) was explicit about the
| need to ethically cleanse the Palestinians from their
| land.
| woodruffw wrote:
| Herzl, nor Hertzl. Do you have a citation or resource for
| this?
|
| (I ask not because it's inconceivable, but because Herzl
| died almost half a century before Israel declared its
| independence. Ze'ev Jabotinsky is more consistently
| identified with revisionist Zionism/territorial
| maximalism.)
| cramsession wrote:
| > _" We must expropriate gently the private property on
| the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the
| penniless population across the border by procuring
| employment for it in the transit countries, while denying
| it employment in our country. The property owners will
| come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation
| and the removal of the poor must be carried out
| discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the
| immoveable property believe that they are cheating us,
| selling us things for more than they are worth. But we
| are not going to sell them anything back."_
|
| https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-
| Quot...
| Gud wrote:
| Israel controls no strategic resources, unlike the other
| allies the USA has in the Middle East.
|
| Your comment completely ignores the long history Israel has
| of rigging the US elections by funding their pet congressmen.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Israel controls no strategic resources_
|
| Israel is, to use a Pacific-theatre term, our unsinkable
| aircraft carrier. A better Pakistan.
|
| > _long history Israel has of rigging the US elections by
| funding their pet congressmen_
|
| Americans were, until recently, pro Israel. The funding
| worked because amplifying anti-Israeli sentiments among
| electeds lost them votes. Now that that balance of
| perceptions has shifted, the effect has as well. And note
| that pro-Israel != Israel; lots of America pro-Israeli
| influence is entirely homegrown.
| gregoryyy wrote:
| Actually - it's not Israeli influence. It's pro-Israel
| influence. Important difference. This includes lobby
| organisations funded or founded by wealthy Jews, conservative
| Christian lobbyists, pro-arms trade interests, and geopolitical
| interests (essentially Israel acts as a US military proxy they
| can use to keep the middle east in check). Not quite Israel
| secretly pulling strings (which is quite rightly dismissed as
| traditional boring anti-semetic conspiracy theory wearing a
| different hat), more of an alignment of interests, which
| dictator Netenyahu is currently taking advantage of to pursue
| his own career agenda (complete destruction of Iran and
| security of Israel from the mindset of a paranoid Israeli
| nationalist). Naturally, this involves attempting to buy out
| journalists and promote propaganda - and the Israeli attempts
| to do this are usually rather inept. What's far more effective
| is the already existing domestic pro-Israel lobby groups that
| have a completely above board, and vastly more effective way of
| funding Israel (and the vastly more powerful US military-
| financial-geopolitical interests).
| fromMars wrote:
| Agree with your post. As a Jewish American, I have been
| advocating that it would be better for Americans and even
| Jews if we stop sending money to Israel and put political
| pressure on Israel to abandon illegal settlements, end the
| war on Gaza and work towards a resolution of the Israeli
| Palestinian conflict.
|
| Unfortunately, this POV doesn't seem to be widely held by
| many woth influence.
| throw7384r8 wrote:
| Illegal settlements are mostly pushed by radical jews from
| US. Israel does not really have money and people resources,
| for this endless war.
| fromMars wrote:
| Do you have any sources for this? I know a lot of Jews in
| the U.S. support Israel, but not sure why they would care
| about settlements if they don't live there.
|
| And if what you say is true, why is Netanyahu still in
| power?
|
| That said I don't think your point undermines my
| suggestion that the U.S. should get out of the business
| of funding Israel and joining it in any wars over there.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| My guess is, after 1900+ years of being treated a certain way,
| and within a human lifetime of an industrialized attempt of
| extermination, they don't _particularly_ care about scruples.
| fromMars wrote:
| As a Jew and I don't think that is true at all and feel it is
| a bit of a dangerous characterization. Jews have just as much
| scruples as any other groups.
|
| What I do think is true is that Jews have more fear of others
| based on past treatment and even a lot of current rhetoric
| and may justify actions as necessary for safety.
|
| We do also happen to be a very small group of people. For
| instance, Palestinians have 1 billion Muslims supporting
| them.
|
| That said, I happen to think that these unscrupulous policies
| will actually cause more harm than good.
| tastyface wrote:
| Ultimately, this is a self-destructive approach. If Israel
| loses support of the West, what will they have left? Nuclear
| saber-rattling?
| fromMars wrote:
| As a Jewish American, I don't think it's antisemitic. We really
| shouldn't be sending any money or weapons to Israel or joining
| them in any wars.
|
| What I do think is a bit antisemitic is the suggestion that
| Israel is somehow unique here. Russia, China, and the U.S. are
| all doing this. Heck we just captured Maduro and killed leader
| of Iran. I just think a country like Russia is way more
| effective and subtle when it comes to election manipulation,
| especially in Eastern Europe.
| calgoo wrote:
| So, if I don't follow your what-about-ism, Im a racist? Thats
| what you are saying there; We all know that the US, china,
| Russia, and 99% of the countries in the world are doing this.
| Why is it racist to pick on the COUNTRY of Israel, which
| right now is trying its hardest to wipe out entire countries?
| We know Russia is doing that right now in Ukraine, but that
| does not eliminate what Israel is doing.
| nashashmi wrote:
| The desperation of the state is becoming apparent. Look for more
| election interference in the future. It will be more
| sophisticated. And likely can be traced in past elections.
| tremon wrote:
| I think it's also true that government officials around the
| world are less inclined to just go along with it, since Israel
| has lost control of public perception. So the tactics have to
| become more brazen and forceful to achieve the same results,
| increasing the risk of exposure and/or blowback.
| 8bitsrule wrote:
| I don't think for a minute that this stuff is anything new ...
| to the contrary. I think what _is_ new is that, every time they
| step in it, the whole world _now_ quickly knows.
| gokhan wrote:
| Already downvoted to hell. Will leave frontpage in 5-10 mins with
| 273 points in 1 hour. Shame.
| bawolff wrote:
| So is the allegation that this private intelligence firm tried to
| induce members of the government party to offer a bribe. They
| then published the recorded conversations.
|
| I guess what is missing from the article is was the videos
| misleading or did they really get offered the bribe? Because if
| its the latter, its kind of hard to feel sympathy for a corrupt
| official getting caught even if the mechanism was problematic.
| rekrsiv wrote:
| A bribe in a low trust society is not the same as a bribe in a
| high trust society.
|
| In this context, a bribe is irrelevant compared to the act of
| election interference by a foreign actor.
| bawolff wrote:
| Appearently not to the electors or this scheme wouldn't have
| worked.
| pessimizer wrote:
| It isn't corruption or the exposure of corruption that is
| the crime to European elites. The crime is doing something
| that will cause voters to choose something that they do not
| want the voters to choose.
|
| If you are corrupt, and that corruption helps the
| opposition, you are accused of election manipulation. If
| you expose corruption, and that exposure helps the
| opposition, you are accused of election manipulation.
|
| Meanwhile, the US is pouring billions of dollars into their
| elections, and if questioned, the _questioning_ is
| considered an authoritarian encroachment on human rights.
| The US can make their officials into unpersons with
| sanctions for doing their jobs with integrity, and they 'll
| just go along with it, tsk-tsking at the official in
| question.
|
| Too bad for Golob, though - since it's Israel doing it for
| Israeli reasons, the "left-liberals" won't be able to get
| any of their usual support to attack them, because it's
| Israelis all the way down now. Ukraine is old news and
| competing with Israel for weapons, so there's no need for
| NATO-lackey Golob anymore.
| sigismund wrote:
| The videos weren't directly about bribing. They were more about
| people talking about someone else taking a bribe. Sadly all of
| the videos were edited, so we don't have full context.
| rekrsiv wrote:
| Quick question: Could they also be manipulating this message
| board's voting?
| vrganj wrote:
| Of course. So are their allies in the Trump admin, note also
| the abuse of the flagging mechanism to take down any news that
| might not portray them in the best light.
| tempaccount420 wrote:
| Politics are indiscriminately flagged. People don't come to
| HN to read politics.
| adamors wrote:
| This is simply not true, this very submission sits
| comfortably on the front page, so does
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47522709
|
| and
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47518281
|
| and
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47523106
|
| and
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47523169
|
| Unless of course you mean "politics" as in everything you
| don't like is "politics".
| Bender wrote:
| If they could get people to install a mobile UI _app_ that
| fetches instructions on what to up /down-vote, what to
| flag/vouch then they could and unlikely anyone would notice.
|
| It is unlikely that _enough people_ would check their up /down
| vote history, vouch and flag history and even then some would
| assume they fat-fingered such things.
|
| Such a UI could also save and upload username and password to
| another site. Some people use the same creds on multiple sites.
| stainablesteel wrote:
| assume this is the case on every platform
| izacus wrote:
| Online community spam/brigading has been a normal occurrence
| since I've been running a message board 15 years ago. At least
| in Europe.
|
| Seeing a sudden flood of new messages from low use accounts
| around elections or referendums is normal these days.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| I think a larger question to ask is if could they also be
| manipulating the people themselves who are reading these
| message boards prior to this post which later impacts such
| message board's voting.
| rendall wrote:
| Lol. If Israel could manipulate HN do you think so many anti-
| Israel posts would appear on the front page, and each
| mitigating or nuanced comment about Israel would be flagged so
| quickly? No, Israel does not control or manipulate HN.
| aga98mtl wrote:
| They do it in a more subtle way on HN. They use friendly
| journalists to push technologies and solutions they have
| backend access too. Obviously the HN crowd is a very a tough
| crowd the fool, but it does not mean they are not trying.
|
| Notice how the tech media will decide particular companies as
| the only ones worth talking about in certain segments. It's
| not only money behind this, there are other motivations.
| submeta wrote:
| Maybe there are lots more articles posted on HN criticising
| Israel, and only a fraction remains, because they win the up-
| and downvote war?
| rendall wrote:
| Not a single pro-Israel article, nor even any article that
| even mentions Israel neutrally, has ever reached the front
| page of HN in the entire history of HN.
|
| So, no. Israel is not "winning the up- and downvote war" of
| HN.
| hebelehubele wrote:
| Vast majority of post critical of Israel get flagged as soon
| as they get enough traction
| jfengel wrote:
| Practically everything of political attention gets flagged,
| even if it is tech related.
|
| There may well be a pro-Israel brigade going out of their
| way to move that along, but there is an equally rapid anti-
| Israel brigade. Nothing remains on the front page for long.
| aaa_aaa wrote:
| I saw many new accounts doing brazen propaganda.
| beboplifa wrote:
| The tapes show prominent Slovenian figures apparently discussing
| corruption, illegal lobbying and the misuse of state funds. Is
| there any evidence that the tape is fraudulent? The article
| doesn't provide any. I wonder if anybody even read the article
| other than words "Israeli firm" and jumped to a lynching
| megous wrote:
| Giora Eiland is the architect of "General's Plan". If anything,
| this scumbag criminal should have been locked up the moment he
| touched down in Ljubljana with his "company".
| throw310822 wrote:
| "The plan, conceived by retired major general and former head
| of the National Security Council Giora Eiland and presented
| to the Knesset by a group of several retired Israeli
| generals, proposed giving approximately 300,000 Palestinians
| a one-week evacuation period to depart from the northern
| third of Gaza before designating it a military exclusion
| zone. Under this strategy, anyone remaining in the area would
| be considered a combatant. The plan would then implement a
| complete siege that would block essential supplies until
| militant surrender, denying all essential supplies including
| medicine, fuel, food, and water"
| carabiner wrote:
| Why are they like this... There are elite cultures that just live
| and don't bother anyone. Israel isn't one of them.
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| So it sounds like these guys posed as investors, schmoozed
| politicians, and got them on tape agreeing to do corrupt stuff.
| The recordings were then released to influence voters.
|
| The thing about this is, the response to it will depend on who
| the politicians were. For example, if it was the "far right"
| politicians caught on tape, there wouldn't be the same furore
| about election interference. The recordings may of course be
| edited to be misleading.
| sigismund wrote:
| The videos weren't directly about bribing. They were more about
| people talking about someone else taking a bribe. Sadly all of
| the videos were edited, so we don't have full context.
| trinix912 wrote:
| I'm from Slovenia and it is very obvious what is going on
| behind the scenes. It's a public secret at this point that
| both the parties in charge (especially the people in/around
| Gibanje Svoboda) and the various people "from behind" take
| their cuts at big infrastructure projects.
|
| Just to be fair, this is not unique to the current
| government. We've had several similar corruption scandals
| throughout several governments; it was almost always related
| to infrastructure projects.
|
| A few days prior to this leak there was a separate one posted
| on Facebook (that I sadly can't find anymore; it has been
| covered by several media outlets here [1]), in which the
| former GS secretary reveals who gets what % and that they
| have to "set our own people to the right places, as (2023)
| floods cleanup is where the most money flows".
|
| It is also not a secret that the mayor of Ljubljana,
| Jankovic, is able to bypass all laws to issue building
| permits in exchange for a 20% "donation" to city-ran sports
| clubs, which are ran by his friends. This was revealed in the
| case of an Austrian investor and his luxury flats at Celovska
| cesta, Ljubljana, a few months ago.
|
| It's also plain obvious that the state media (RTV SLO) is
| trying hard to shift the conversation towards the origin of
| the leaks rather than the supposed corruption revealed in
| them. The practice had usually been to investigate the
| content first.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/c5OFcRRSF6k
| refulgentis wrote:
| This skips over what the article actually describes. Svarc
| Pipan's account isn't of politicians getting caught, it's of an
| entrapment operation. The fake investors "seemed to know
| nothing about data centers," kept pushing her toward suggesting
| a bribe, and paid a EUR500 tab in cash. She says she refused to
| lobby and told them she was legally barred from doing so at the
| time.
| trinix912 wrote:
| There is no direct proof that Jansa is linked to them,
| however plausible it seems.
|
| (the parent comment has been edited to remove this claim
| shortly after I made my comment responding to it)
|
| SOVA has only been able to confirm that an unlabeled Israeli
| charter landed at Brnik and that a taxi ride with two
| businessmen was made from the airport to the street in
| Ljubljana where SDS is headquartered.
|
| This could have also been any two legit businessmen, who
| might have come with any other flight, for any other purpose.
| It's not confirmed whether they entered the SDS building
| either.
|
| It's also anachronistic - the videos appear to have been
| filmed a while ago (given the statements made and the held
| positions of the people in them), while that flight has only
| happened a few weeks ago.
|
| Svarc Pipan also didn't refuse to lobby, she just brushed it
| off by saying "it's not lobbying" after bring told it indeed
| was, right after bragging about lobbying.
|
| She then goes on to explain that she kept arranging things
| from behind, after resigning from her position because of the
| Litijska corruption scandal about a year into her turn.
| tlogan wrote:
| Interesting. I have vey limited knowledge of Slovenian politics,
| but it often seems that whoever gets elected ends up facing
| corruption charges and ends up in prison after the next election
| cycle.
|
| Since Janez Jansa will be prime minister he will be charged for
| corruption by end of his term and this could be the third time
| for him to go to prison (the first instance happened under the
| socialist regime, so maybe that does not count).
|
| Anyway, I do not think Israelis needed to work hard here to find
| some dirt.
| nec4b wrote:
| There was no rigging or any manipulation of votes. Current and
| previous government officials were caught bragging about their
| previous corrupt adventures. The government after some initial
| shock came up with a story about foreign intervention. Slovenian
| newspapers and journalist activist carried it all the way to
| Brussels in order bank on negative emotions about Israel and
| hopped people will think about that. There was no institutional
| response, because the current government has cleaned institutions
| of people not loyal to them. It's a rather sad situation. The
| society is deeply divided. When similar thing happened in
| Belgium, the corrupt people were immediately punished and nobody
| cared who exposed them.
| trinix912 wrote:
| Yes, pretty much. It's much more obvious if you take into
| account the Pocivalsek leaks before the previous elections and
| compare the media response to this time.
| easymodex wrote:
| Thing is, the ones "exposing" them are already known as corrupt
| from multiple previous scandals, now all they did was get some
| people on camera which say that the other side is also corrupt.
| While none of this is good, I'd still vote for the ones
| supposedly somewhat corrupt instead of those known to be fully
| corrupt.
| tzu321 wrote:
| Here are the videos: https://www.anti-corruption2026.com/
|
| They are speaking in English. Only appendices 1-5 are available.
| maxdo wrote:
| This instance is a kindergarten if you compare Victor Orban doing
| phone calls during EU sessions from toilet to report secrets to
| Russia.
| ejpir wrote:
| so, interfering with elections is "kindergarten", compared to
| leaking secrets?
| ahhhhnoooo wrote:
| Israel has recently invaded Lebanon, started a regional war with
| Iran, and has been recognized as committing genocide in Gaza.
|
| The UN believes the IDF uses rape as a matter of policy and has
| published a report with quite a bit of evidence.
|
| Hearing Israel is meddling with elections is like, yeah, if you
| are doing that other stuff I'm not shocked when you also do this.
| abdelhousni wrote:
| Same Slovenia which Prime Minister of Slovakia Robert Fico was
| shot and critically injured in 2024 after, certainly not related,
| his government's opposition to military assistance to Ukraine and
| of hypocritical face of the EU inaction against Israel
| "treatment" of Palestinians.
| ZenDroid wrote:
| Nope, not the same Slovenia. That Slovenia was actually
| Slovakia.
| cooloo wrote:
| It's amazing to see the amount of hate towards Israel here. I
| guess part of it it's just plain old Jew hate in new cover
| hollywood_court wrote:
| I don't think that's the case. There are five people in my
| office including myself. Three of them are Jewish. None of them
| ever have anything positive to say about Israel. The three
| Jewish people in my office certainly don't hate Jews.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> It's amazing to see the amount of hate towards Israel here.
| I guess part of it it's just plain old Jew hate in new cover
|
| Hahaha. They're trying to influence European elections. You
| don't need to have any opinion about Jews to be upset about
| that.
| sillyfluke wrote:
| A third of Jews in NYC voted for an anti-Zionist Muslim mayor,
| which equates to roughly half the population of Tel Aviv
| according to demographic statistics. I advise you discuss "Jew
| hate" with them before you start attacking everyone else for
| racism.
| TheGuyWhoCodes wrote:
| You can be a Jewish and a progressive idiot, they are not
| mutually exclusive.
| sillyfluke wrote:
| Well neither is being Jewish and being a racist idiot
| apparently.
| TheGuyWhoCodes wrote:
| How can I be racist to my own people?
|
| NY is just a repeat of Karl Lueger in Vienna.
| sillyfluke wrote:
| >How can I be racist to my own people?
|
| I don't know, you are the one insinuating anti-Zionist
| jews are jew haters.
| isr wrote:
| I just saw video of Israeli soldiers handing over a 10 month
| old boy they had in their possession to the red crescent. The
| Israeli's had taken the little boy & his father, and tortured
| the boy in front of his father. They burned his body with
| cigarettes, and DROVE NAILS into his flesh.
|
| They literally crucified a 10 month boy. All corroborated by
| medical professionals who examined him. They still have the
| father.
|
| All over the media. Go look it up.
|
| When that boy grows up, will his attitude be dismissed as
| "plain old Jew hate"?
|
| Or righteous anger?
|
| (and thats just 1 child, out of literally 100,000's of
| children, just in the last 30 odd months)
| TheGuyWhoCodes wrote:
| BS The father is a Hamas operative that used his child as a
| human shield going to the yellow line. The kid was hurt due
| to shrapnel, he was treated by Israeli doctors and was
| released to the red crescent. He was never tortured. The
| media in this case is Aljazeera, and the "medical
| professionals" have every reason to lie.
| spaghetdefects wrote:
| This is a disgusting and racist comment. You can see the
| cigarette burns on him yourself (warning _very_
| disturbing):
| https://x.com/a_abdulruhman/status/2035695296101941511
| LightBug1 wrote:
| Terrorist state at it again ... fuck em.
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