[HN Gopher] Musketeer d'Artagnan's remains believed found under ...
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Musketeer d'Artagnan's remains believed found under Dutch church
Author : xenocratus
Score : 95 points
Date : 2026-03-25 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
| brightball wrote:
| Hold on...that was an entirely fictional story?
|
| Is there some part of it that was based on real people?
| bena wrote:
| Same here. I thought it was completely fictional.
|
| So, I immediately looked it up. There was a real d'Artagnan, he
| was kind of a big deal, so Dumas wrote some stories based on a
| fictionalized version of the real d'Artagnan.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Wow, that's really cool. I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a
| real person (and that he is credited with inventing the
| butter knife!), but I didn't realize there were others.
| fusslo wrote:
| D'Artagnan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Batz_
| de_Castelmore_...
|
| Cardinal Mazarin -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Mazarin
|
| Athos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_d%27Athos
|
| Porthos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_de_Porthau
|
| Aramis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Aramitz
|
| Comte de Troisville (D'artagnan's mentor) -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Troisville
|
| All highly fictionalized and I have had trouble finding
| information on the real counterparts (aside from the
| Cardinal). I started learning about that period of history
| after listening to the D'Artagnan Romances in audiobook
| form.
|
| The other interesting thing is Gatien de Courtilz de Sanras
| wrote semi-fictional accounts of D'Artagnan, published 27
| years after D'artagnan's death and 144 years before Dumas'
| The Three Musketeers (
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatien_de_Courtilz_de_Sandras
| ).
| hodgesrm wrote:
| Don't forget the Duke of Buckingham - https://en.wikipedi
| a.org/wiki/George_Villiers,_1st_Duke_of_B.... Dumas'
| fictionalized version was far better than the real
| person.
| kergonath wrote:
| > I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a real person
|
| And he was more than a big deal. One of the most powerful
| people in Europe at the time.
| expedition32 wrote:
| Maastricht today is not a French city. The city was
| returned after a peace treaty.
|
| A hero and a heroic death in a pointless war.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| I had a similar experience with the characters in
| Sienkiewicz's Trilogy. A number of the fictional characters
| were amalgamations of actual historical figures, with added
| or modified histories. For example, the character of Sir
| Wolodyjowski is actually drawn from two figures with the same
| surname.
|
| (For those interested, Jerzy Hoffman has produced excellent
| film adaptations of these books, two while navigating
| communist censorship, which is why they were filmed in
| reverse order. In _reading_ order:
|
| - "With Fire and Sword" (1999) [1]
|
| - "The Deluge" (1974) [0] (trailer for the significantly
| shortened 2014 director's cut [3])
|
| - "The Colonel Wolodyjowski" [2]
|
| In my opinion, and this is widely regarded to be the case,
| the original 5+ hour "The Deluge" is the best of the three
| and frankly one of the best movies I've ever watched.)
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdrKEEt_nc
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCESk2joFo8
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFO4O4JNjXw
|
| [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfhvt1zrfU
| brightball wrote:
| I read the original Dumas story a few years back. Never had
| any idea.
| rags2riches wrote:
| Some Swedes will be delighted to learn that not only was there
| a historical d'Artagnan, but also a real life cardinal named
| Mazarin. But I have yet to find a historical person named
| Loranga.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loranga,_Masarin_och_Dartanjan...
| Bayart wrote:
| There were in fact _two_ Mazarin cardinals. The one people
| know about, who happened to be one of the major statesmen in
| Europe at the time, and his brother who was notoriously
| useless.
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| > his brother who was notoriously useless.
|
| So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary classic]
| reference)
| throw0101d wrote:
| > _So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary
| classic] reference)_
|
| Galileo had (illegitimate) daughters but was unable to
| find husbands for them, so their remaining options were
| to become nuns. One seems to have quite brilliant, but
| the other a drunk:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Daughter
|
| Back in the day the Church was the social safety net of
| society, so many folks ended up in monasteries as a form
| of charity for folks that would perhaps otherwise would
| have no other way to support themselves.
| jfengel wrote:
| Only if you were reasonably wealthy.
|
| Monasteries were not orphanages. You could sometimes dump
| a baby off there (they had deposit bins specifically for
| that), but they wouldn't raise it. They would usually
| find somebody else to take care of it.
|
| Monasteries did not have accept older children or adults,
| either. Children given to the church would often come
| with money for their care and feeding. The poor would
| often get turned away.
|
| A monastery could be a safe place to house offspring who
| didn't have a family who could (publicly) support them.
| They were also good places for second sons and other
| spare children, and with enough money donated they could
| work their way up in the church hierarchy to do the
| family some good.
|
| But it was a lousy social safety net.
| Shitty-kitty wrote:
| Genearlly nuns would enter to convent before puberty
| while boys would enter the monastary after. You are right
| that they were not orphanages and did not take young
| children, thou what orphanages there were, were run by
| the Church. Abandoing newborns to a orphanage was not
| possible. Babies can't survive on cow's milk, especially
| the unpastuzed kind.
| PokemonNoGo wrote:
| https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Anga :D
| pax wrote:
| This autumn I have visited the Lavardens Castle which had an
| exhibition on D'Artagnan. Stole the English version of the
| explanations (QR codes, hosted incognito on their website)
|
| https://pax.github.io/playground/lavardens-dartagnan/
| ourmandave wrote:
| Time for the next installment of the _Pirates of the Caribbean._
|
| Jack Sparrow and/vs/saves the 3 Musketeers.
| lostlogin wrote:
| That sounds like someone just decided to have a dig around inside
| the church.
| schmookeeg wrote:
| One of my favorite books -- I had no idea there was a real-life
| inspiration for it (Balzampleu!) This will get me to re-read it,
| it's been too long. :)
| cholantesh wrote:
| I was aware that Aramis and of course the various royals and
| aristocrats were real, but not the individual soldiers. Loved
| this novel growing, seems like the Count of Monte Cristo is
| seen as more 'serious' literature, but the Three Musketeers
| will always have a special place in my mind.
| kergonath wrote:
| > I was aware that Aramis and of course the various royals
| and aristocrats were real
|
| It's more that their names were real, but their descriptions
| and their actions in the books are almost entirely fictional.
| srean wrote:
| Count of Monte Cristo is also semi fictional.
|
| A few month's ago I started reading Three Musketeers again. I had
| forgotten how relentless and fast moving it is. Moving from one
| action set piece to the next from beginning to end. It is almost
| overpowering, literally had to catch my breadth before turning a
| page.
|
| I had forgotten how it was when I had read it as a kid.
| chr-s wrote:
| I read both of these in the last year and they're both
| phenomenal. I'm working my way through the classics, there's a
| reason they've survived centuries.
|
| Actually, I listened to a dramatization of The Three Musketeers
| and I was struck by how _funny_ it is. The 4-way duel at the
| beginning is hilarious and Aramis' and Porthos' respective
| romantic escapades give great comic relief to what is otherwise
| an action packed adventure.
|
| The Count of Monte Cristo is an investment, and the middle
| third drags, but it's necessary to set up the final third,
| which is so rewarding for the reader. It's the best tale of
| revenge and redemption I've ever read.
| ramses0 wrote:
| """Hey ChatGPT, I've heard you make a good book club partner.
| I've just read [Three Musketeers|Count of Monte Cristo] and
| want to have a discussion about it. Ask me what I think
| before you tell me what you think, let's go!"""
|
| ...I read both of the books recently and it was illuminating
| to be able to near-instantly explore avenues of
| insight/criticism of both of the books. Three Musketeers
| matches fairly closely to Wizard of Oz (vice versa actually),
| and Monte Cristo raises some really interesting questions if
| you view "The Count" as basically a fallen angel of divine
| justice (and the benefits/costs to him via that role).
|
| Since my circle of IRL people who'd recently read both the
| unabridged books in the last month is infinitesimally small,
| it was one of my first "arms-length" test cases of "The
| GPT's" for fitness-for-purpose. I'm still a bit muddy on
| throwing a bunch of personal data and thoughts to remote
| servers (or becoming dependent on that interaction pattern),
| but digging in and analyzing old books was a great kindof
| gut-check and something I enjoy doing when finishing a book.
|
| I know it's regurgitating a bunch of of reddit comments and
| academic books/papers (in Dumas's case), but overall- highly
| recommended!
| kjs3 wrote:
| Yes...clearly running to something that is "regurgitating a
| bunch of of reddit comments and academic books/papers" is
| much, much better than finding a couple of actual humans
| that read books, and then talking to them. Peak AI right
| there.
| ramses0 wrote:
| You're invited to my party!
| nine_k wrote:
| One of the best lines I read about "Three Musketeers" went
| approximately like so: "What do you do if your duty before your
| country, your military orders, your friendships, your love, and
| your honor all contradict each other beyond reconciliation?"
| hodgesrm wrote:
| The Three Musketeers is my favorite adventure story of all
| time. The story of how D'Artagnan insults all three musketeers
| in succession at their first meeting, challenges them to duels
| one after the other, and ends up fighting on their side in a
| melee against the royal guards is just one of countless,
| hilarious adventures. The book just gets better from there.
| ibero wrote:
| there's no hard evidence here. the "99%" referenced in the
| article is someone's personal subjective confidence it's him.
| body buried under church is not particularly eventful news as it
| stands.
| roysting wrote:
| What bothers me about these kinds of things is that we are
| sanitizing all of the soil of indigenous culture exactly like was
| done in other place around the globe by the force that drove
| "colonialism".
|
| Now this impulse to scour and loot humanity of its indigenous
| cultural sites is turned on the indigenous Europeans, by the same
| ruling class and their institutional "researchers", "scientists"
| and "adventurer" apparatchiks that also scoured and looted the
| reset of the world and stored it in their museums, e.g., Egyptian
| artifacts.
|
| Is nothing sacred or "holy" anymore? Can nothing survive the
| self-important narcissism of "scientists" that must impose
| themselves on everyone against their will? Why are we allowing
| these types of "scientists" to just plunder and destroy the
| cultural artifacts and sites simply because they are curious and
| want to write self-important papers to advance their careers and
| standing?
|
| It's literally grave robbery, only more pretentious because the
| "scientists" are creating "collections" in their institutions.
| This is the very same kind of "scientist" with no respect for
| humanity that created the scientific classification that created
| racist supremacism...for science, of course.
|
| How would you feel about "scientists" digging up and grave
| robbing and filing away the bones of some African, Asian, or
| South American indigenous? Why should we accept it for European
| indigenous?
|
| People complain about the fact that, e.g., the British did it for
| centuries, e.g., all over Egypt and Indian grave and cultural
| sites, yet people are fine with these people doing it to the
| European indigenous cultural sites apparently. How about we
| reject this kind of purging and sanitizing of the earth of
| indigenous culture everywhere or at least come up with some
| standard of restoring things once investigated. All these
| artifacts survived literal millennia, but most of them will not
| survive the pretentious self-important narcissism of "scientist"
| grave robbers.
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(page generated 2026-03-25 23:01 UTC)