[HN Gopher] Apple Business
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Business
        
       Author : soheilpro
       Score  : 447 points
       Date   : 2026-03-24 15:29 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | georgeburdell wrote:
       | One of the last great consumer companies is going B2B
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Apple always had a B2B component. This is just the latest
         | attempt to not make it completely subpar.
        
           | furyofantares wrote:
           | This sucks. This page makes it clear this is the motivation
           | for "Ads on Maps", as they talk about it prominently here -
           | they are now directly selling the attention of their device
           | consumers to their business customers.
           | 
           | I guess they were doing that before in the App Store, which
           | is of course also awful.
        
             | Barbing wrote:
             | Their voice assistant is somewhat opinionated about how it
             | will search the App Store for you
             | 
             | https://i.ibb.co/zV8d9gbc/IMG-2177.jpg
             | 
             | They dynamically reveal 1-3 results and only show a "see
             | more options in App Store" button when they feel like it.
        
         | lvspiff wrote:
         | its the only path to go to be able to continue to support their
         | pricing models - they've priced the consumer/pro-sumer out of
         | the market prettymuch and so B2B is the more sustainable paying
         | population.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | The company that just made a $600 Macbook?
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | Yes, the phone company that is known for taking home a
             | bronze medal in personal computing for the past 30 years
             | running.
             | 
             | Apple knows the score internally, this won't change the
             | world any more than the 12" Retina Macbook did.
        
               | mpweiher wrote:
               | The world's firs trillion dollar and three trillion
               | dollar company. Yes, completely insignificant.
               | 
               | The company that captures 60-70% of the global PC
               | industry's profits. Definitely completely insignificant.
               | 
               | Apple has known the score internally for decades and is
               | laughing that score all the way to the bank.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | None of that refutes anything that was said. macOS is a
               | third-class citizen measured by market share, and the
               | _total sum_ of annual Mac profits is lower than what the
               | iPad ecosystem makes in a year.
               | 
               | Consumers do not want the Mac. Datacenters don't want
               | Apple Silicon. People want the iPhone, they want Airpods,
               | but the M-series Macs have spent 5 years changing
               | absolutely nothing.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | > and the total sum of annual Mac profits is lower than
               | what the iPad ecosystem makes in a year.
               | 
               | So the company that makes between 50-60% of all _profits_
               | in personal computers has created a market where it makes
               | 100% of the profits, but albeit smaller than the whole PC
               | market. That 's terrrrible, what was Apple thinking!
               | 
               | Market share is far from everything when people live in
               | poverty and do not have money to spend on good hardware
               | and software. Apple makes stuff for affluent people, and
               | then makes a ton of money from those rich folks. Making
               | Apple the most valuable company in the history of
               | humanity. Boy, that's a terrible place to be in!
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | I shouldn't have to repeat myself; this _still_ doesn 't
               | refute the claim that Apple has ceded the consumer
               | compute market. Cheap Macs have flooded the used market
               | for years, and people still gravitate towards plastic
               | Wintel boxes and Chromebooks.
               | 
               | > Apple makes stuff for affluent people
               | 
               | is just repeating the original claim upthread:
               | 
               | >> they've priced the consumer/pro-sumer out of the
               | market prettymuch and so B2B is the more sustainable
               | paying population.
        
               | swiftcoder wrote:
               | > Consumers do not want the Mac
               | 
               | Really? As far as I can tell, consumers mostly would love
               | to use Macs, but aren't willing to pay the price of entry
               | 
               | > Datacenters don't want Apple Silicon
               | 
               | Do you know how many people salivate at the prospect of
               | an M-based return of the Xserve?
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | > but the M-series Macs have spent 5 years changing
               | absolutely nothing.
               | 
               | You clearly keep up with tech news, kudos! I've seen no
               | changes from other major pc manufacturers in response to
               | Apple silicon, at all. /s
        
           | swiftcoder wrote:
           | > they've priced the consumer/pro-sumer out of the market
           | prettymuch
           | 
           | I'd argue that (the low end of) Apple products are the
           | cheapest they've ever been - the $599 iPhone 17e is below the
           | inflation-adjusted price of the original iPhone, and at $599
           | the MacBook Neo is the cheapest launch price an Apple laptop
           | has ever listed at (not even adjusting for inflation!)
           | 
           | The maximum amount you can spend at the high-end has
           | certainly gone up over time, although the basic MacBook Pro
           | Max config costs roughly the same as it's peer from 10-15
           | years ago - nobody's forcing folks to shell out for the 128GB
           | of RAM (something that didn't exist on laptops at all till
           | very recently)
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | They need to go OEM.
        
           | nhubbard wrote:
           | They did it in the 1990s and it failed so hard that it almost
           | took down the company.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Why can others do it?
        
               | dhosek wrote:
               | Who has successfully managed this kind of transition? The
               | obvious case is IBM which is now essentially a consulting
               | company and doesn't sell PCs anymore.
        
               | nielsbot wrote:
               | Apple's entire success story is their vertical
               | integration. They can't do that and OEM.
               | 
               | As for the PC makers: they don't innovate. Microsoft
               | doesn't care who sells PCs, Intel doesn't care who sells
               | PCs. Every PC maker is essentially an assembly company.
               | If you appreciate Apple's innovation in the laptop space
               | over the past x years, then you don't want Apple to be an
               | OEM.
        
         | mindwok wrote:
         | I had the same thought. When you're a B2B and B2C company and
         | you have to make a bold decision, the B wins because they hold
         | the enterprise $$$.
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | Apple's really late to this.
        
         | AndrewKemendo wrote:
         | Apple is "late" to everything which is why it's the leader
         | 
         | Being early is the same as being wrong and there's no business
         | value in costly exploration of new territory at least in the
         | 21st century
         | 
         | Name me a single company that is still in business and
         | dominating a market based on being first to market with a new
         | product.
        
           | bitpush wrote:
           | Vision Pro.
        
             | d-us-vb wrote:
             | A costly gamble for tech they really wanted that wasn't
             | mature yet.
        
             | unshavedyak wrote:
             | Honestly seems like a supportive argument. Yea, your
             | amendment clearly shows Apple isn't always right/late, but
             | Vision Pro is an example of them being early and how far
             | they miss when they're early hah.
             | 
             |  _(I don 't have a side in this discussion)_
        
               | acdha wrote:
               | And I'd add that like AI, there was clearly a conflict
               | inside Apple between people who wanted to be in the game
               | and the people who correctly recognized that it wasn't
               | yet where most consumers wanted.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Like AI, the Vision Pro would have been a better product
               | if Apple told the detractors to shut up and ship out.
               | NPUs and AR are not going to sway consumers or compete
               | for market share.
               | 
               | Nevermind the _godawful_ Liquid Glass UX they cooked up
               | and imposed on everyone else...
        
             | AndrewKemendo wrote:
             | Vision Pro failed
             | 
             | Apple fails at every novel thing they try and crushes it at
             | every thing they copy
        
               | NetMageSCW wrote:
               | Apple Watch.
        
               | AndrewKemendo wrote:
               | There were literally thousands of smart watches that were
               | launched prior to the Apple Watch
               | 
               | Garmin anyone?
               | 
               | I think Timex and Casio even had ones in the 90s
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | Which ones of those can do notifications, health
               | tracking, sleep cycle, temperature/blood pressure? I'll
               | wait.
        
               | velocity3230 wrote:
               | Garmin.
        
               | acdha wrote:
               | That doesn't fit: Apple's been experimenting with VR
               | since the 90s and Vision Pro was hardly novel-well
               | executed, but not novel. I think it's more complex where
               | you have to think about the products executives and Wall
               | Street analysts want to exist providing pressure against
               | the "is it good enough to buy?" response.
        
               | JoelMcCracken wrote:
               | The iPhone was revolutionary. There really was nothing
               | like it at the time. The closest thing (the PDA) was
               | _nothing_ like it.
        
               | spogbiper wrote:
               | there were tons of smartphones on the market prior to the
               | iphone. i used several of them. mostly windows mobile
               | devices that required a stylus or keypad for input. they
               | had apps stores, web browsers, email, etc. copy and
               | paste, which the iphone lacked at release. from a
               | functionality stance there were many options very much
               | like the iphone available. the interface on the iphone
               | was nicer for most things, and it had a nicer web
               | browser. not a different world of functionality at all,
               | just a bit nicer overall but also with some big trade
               | offs.
        
               | iknowstuff wrote:
               | A world of difference. Completely different products.
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | Couldn't agree more. Those amalgam windows mobile devices
               | were an interesting for the time, but hellish experience
               | imho.
        
             | NetMageSCW wrote:
             | They were still late, just not late enough.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Dominating the market??
        
           | sosodev wrote:
           | TSMC. They dominate the semiconductor market because they're
           | consistently first to market with the world's most advanced
           | chip fabrication.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | But they're an example of the same phenomeon; they were
             | founded in 1987, long after chip fabrication was a thing.
             | They just did it _right_.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | They took extreme risks on EUV lithography and
               | accumulated market share by being the first to shrink
               | nodes.
        
               | sosodev wrote:
               | I think it's hard to know where to draw the line between
               | derivative product and something unique. If we follow
               | your logic that TSMC hasn't done anything new, then
               | aren't all computer manufacturers just rehashing the
               | ENIAC or whatever? Is a Tesla just a better model T? No,
               | arguably we would say that these products are new to
               | market because they've integrated new technologies in
               | unique ways and often expended massive capital on R&D to
               | do so. TSMC is no different.
        
             | AndrewKemendo wrote:
             | Absolutely not TSMC was and has always been a pure play
             | "execution" of chip foundry, based on the government of
             | Taiwan taking financial bets on a growing chip market.
             | 
             | In no way was TSMC the first to market for chips or chip
             | production or even any major chip fab product at its
             | outset.
             | 
             | In fact they did exactly the Apple model and took what TI
             | was doing and used government money to scale it. I don't
             | know a single unique product from TSMC
             | 
             | If anything Texas Instruments (which is I grew up around in
             | Houston) could be considered actually building a good
             | product from scratch, look at them now...
        
           | valzam wrote:
           | Ok but "Business Email" wasn't exactly invented yesterday...
        
             | AndrewKemendo wrote:
             | Which is my point. They did basically nothing new
             | internally and will be able to capture what...10-20% of
             | overall business suite market?
             | 
             | That's genius
        
           | jackdh wrote:
           | Depending on how you define "new" but there are certainly
           | examples of this, Spotify is the first to come to mind, AWS
           | could be another.
        
         | tencentshill wrote:
         | They are just combining existing services: Apple Business
         | Essentials, Apple Business Manager, and Apple Business Connect.
         | 
         | It's like Microsoft now - put everything under one massive
         | convoluted control panel.
        
       | bitpush wrote:
       | Who will Apple serve? Users, Apple or their partners?
       | 
       | It has always been Apple > Users > Partners.
       | 
       | There's a reason why Microsoft is still the king of enterprises.
       | Anybody getting involved with this with Apple will deserve
       | everything thats coming their way
        
         | NetMageSCW wrote:
         | Thousands in annual savings?
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | Not on iOS, being locked into the App Store never saved me a
           | dime.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | Anyone who's downvoting me better pay full price for _FFVI
             | Pixel Remaster_ instead of emulating it, you filthy dogs.
        
       | bouk wrote:
       | Hopefully some actual competition against GSuite (or whatever
       | it's called these days)
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | I wonder if this was timed to lineup with the MacBook Neo launch,
       | which makes the idea of equipping your entire company with Mac
       | laptops a lot more compelling from a cost perspective.
        
         | 10729287 wrote:
         | There's a grey one. So obviously, it was timed.
        
       | SunshineTheCat wrote:
       | It's kinda crazy it took Apple this long to make this.
       | 
       | I've worked with two agencies now that used only Macs across the
       | business and had a really fun time signing in to and integrating
       | 58 Google services every time they hired someone new.
       | 
       | It's possible people may continue to use Google Workspaces in
       | these places, however, the fact that there was never even an
       | Apple option was always wild to me.
        
         | philistine wrote:
         | There is now an option _ONLY_ if you 're in the US. The mail,
         | calendar etc. stuff is US-only.
        
       | martibravo wrote:
       | 599$ serviceable MacBooks, easy to use MDM, Cloud, Email and
       | Calendar and flat-fee AppleCare all baked in?
       | 
       | New businesses under 50 employees are going to eat this up like
       | there's no tomorrow.
       | 
       | I'd be scared if I was certain Redmond corporation who makes
       | their money on 365 and Intune.
        
         | selectively wrote:
         | Microsoft is a giant enterprise software company that also
         | publishes Candy Crush and Call of Duty.
         | 
         | Intune and Windows are 'nice to have' but are not the business-
         | business. The business is 365 (which runs on Macs and is worlds
         | better than Apple's office suite + Apple's hosted email is god
         | awful) and Azure.
        
           | martibravo wrote:
           | A lot of new businesses are going the Notion/Google Drive
           | route for docs, tables and knowledge, plus Canva for
           | presentations and more visual work. It's not the majority,
           | but the market is there.
        
             | martibravo wrote:
             | Plus Pages, Numbers and Keynote are free on Macs, minus the
             | new paid features. I think it's a no brainer for new
             | businesses
        
             | radicaldreamer wrote:
             | That might be true for tech startups, but many businesses
             | (even "new" ones) go with Microsoft 365 as a default,
             | especially outside of the west coast or NYC.
        
               | martibravo wrote:
               | I'm talking about the context I know which is Barcelona
               | companies
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | Exactly. 365 gets you perfect compatibility and the 'real
               | tools that professionals use'. Not Google Docs or some
               | weird Apple thing - the tools that always will read the
               | document.
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | If you can navigate the terrible UI enough to find the
               | open button on the proper 'ribbon', that is. The ribbon
               | makeover should have textbooks written about it so we can
               | teach our future UI designers not to make the same
               | mistakes again.
        
               | oblio wrote:
               | Meh. Techies keep ranting about it but regular users are
               | just fine with it.
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | As someone 'technical' who sat close to 'normies' who
               | hated the helpdesk guys so much they would interrupt me
               | with their problems, no they do not.
        
               | nolist_policy wrote:
               | Google docs actually has better MS Office compatibility
               | than the 365 Web Apps.
        
               | TacticalCoder wrote:
               | Europe here. I disagree. Many SMEs are totally happy with
               | Google Workspace and Canva, as GP mentioned. I know
               | people using just that. And they don't understand why
               | there are people suffering from the Microsoft-Stockholm
               | syndrome.
               | 
               | The market may not yet be 365-sized but as GP mentioned:
               | it's there.
               | 
               | And there are young people arriving at an age to open a
               | business who have never used a Windows computer in their
               | entire life. To them Microsoft is the company that make
               | the virus-infested, slow, computers full of ads they see
               | at their grandparents' house. That cohort ain't buying
               | Windows / buying Office / using Azure.
        
           | genthree wrote:
           | Apple's office suite is my favorite I've ever used, and it's
           | not close.
           | 
           | After that, old copies of MSOffice.
           | 
           | Next-best would be a hodgepodge of the lighter options on
           | Linux and such. Gnumeric, Abiword, that sort of thing. Not
           | great, but at least they're light on resources and easy to
           | use.
           | 
           | Distantly after that, LibreOffice.
           | 
           | Then, modern MSOffice in last place.
           | 
           | The only reason I'd count any of them as "worse" than modern
           | MSOffice is that ~perfect office compatibility and a
           | bulletproof excuse when things go wrong ("I'm also using
           | MSOffice, don't know why your document isn't working") is
           | non-negotiable in any business context.
           | 
           | [EDIT] Oh I forgot about Google. That's actually the true
           | last-place. Modern MSOffice isn't worse than that. Christ the
           | performance is awful.
        
             | MidnightRider39 wrote:
             | Crazy how different people experience this.
             | 
             | For me it's completely inverted; Google is top place, then
             | Libreoffice, then MSOffice, then anything by Apple last
             | place.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | That's my exact ranking as well.
        
               | genthree wrote:
               | I value performance and stability highly, and Apple's
               | productivity programs are so light I can leave them open
               | in the background and forget they're running for months
               | at a time even on fairly old, weak machines. And I'm not
               | sure I've ever seen any of them crash (I can't say the
               | same about, say, LibreOffice or pretty much any other
               | Linux-associated productivity software). That they're a
               | ton more polished and stable than things like Abiword or
               | Gnumeric, and have most modern features I'd expect (even
               | live collaborative editing) puts them solidly above those
               | other light options.
               | 
               | I hate modern MSOffice's UI, plus it's full of slow,
               | heavy webtech which deducts a lot of points from
               | basically anything for me. Google's leaks memory (like
               | most of their software... so do Gmail tabs) and is so
               | slow that it introduces a ton of input latency, which
               | drives me nuts, I hate to type in it, aside from my
               | experience with most of its formatting and editing
               | features being that they're very janky even by the
               | standards of GUI word processors. Both are very heavy on
               | resources, which means they have a huge hurdle to
               | overcome on the feature side before I'd consider them
               | anything but extremely-unpleasant.
               | 
               | Old (like... '00s) MSOffice is pretty good because it's
               | not such a resource hog, and the UI used to be really
               | good.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | I have a google sheet with less than 200 rows in it. Not
               | exactly Big Data. When I load it, the first 100 rows
               | appear pretty much instantly, but the following <100 rows
               | take 9 seconds to load! WTF? I don't know any other
               | spreadsheet that takes that long to load more than 100
               | rows.
        
               | aftergibson wrote:
               | Yeah that would by my ranking too. At work is Google
               | because it's the best, particularly for collabotation,
               | personally all in on FOSS.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | I do like Keynote (their PowerPoint alternative) but I do
               | agree that everything else is absolute garbage. But I
               | guess _someone_ has to like it.
        
             | selectively wrote:
             | I liked the way Pages 09 _looked_ - it was beautiful - but
             | the compatibility wasn 't there. Modern Pages is hideous.
             | 
             | And you hit the nail on the head with the whole 'Office =
             | the document always opens/looks right' thing.
        
               | chipotle_coyote wrote:
               | It's not pretty, but both Pages and Numbers are pretty
               | powerful in their modern incarnations. If you actually
               | _need_ Microsoft Office, then you need it, but a lot of
               | people who don 't think they could get away with just
               | Apple's freebies probably could.
               | 
               | (Disclosure: I write 99% of my stuff in Emacs now, so I'm
               | not going to go _that_ far out on a limb for iWork. It 's
               | just that it's the best "Works"-style suite that I've
               | used.)
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | Needing VBA is more common than you think. Excel really
               | has no competitor.
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | > If you actually need Microsoft Office
               | 
               | I also like Apple's office suite, the problem is network
               | effects. I'd even argue most people don't actually _need_
               | MS Office. The amount of people using PowerQuery, VBA,
               | etc. is probably less than 2% of users.
               | 
               | The problem is, because everyone else (in business)
               | already has and uses office, if you want to collaborate,
               | that's what you have to use. Open file formats didn't win
               | out in the end.
        
               | Closi wrote:
               | > the problem is network effects
               | 
               | This is absolutely the problem - with the added issue of
               | platform support.
               | 
               | I'm the only Mac user in our company of 15, which means
               | I'm also the only person that can open a .pages file.
               | Anyone can read a .docx, and if authored in word it will
               | actually look the same on both computers.
        
               | jimbokun wrote:
               | Is it 2% who author content using those tools, or are you
               | also including anyone who might need to open and use a
               | spreadsheet using one of those technologies?
        
             | ireadmevs wrote:
             | And below everything else is the web version of MSOffice.
             | How I hate whenever I'm forced to use that...
        
             | sleepybrett wrote:
             | I used word for windows 2.0 well into the early 2000s. My
             | needs aren't crazy and I don't think word has added a
             | single feature I've cared about since. Pages is my current
             | go-to.
        
             | AnonC wrote:
             | > Apple's office suite is my favorite I've ever used, and
             | it's not close.
             | 
             | I've written many comments criticizing this. Do you use a
             | lot of keyboard shortcuts when you use Numbers or Pages or
             | Keynote or do you use the trackpad/mouse a lot? I generally
             | find these apps and others lacking on the keyboard front,
             | by which I mean that it's almost impossible to use them
             | without a trackpad or a mouse. I can completely live with
             | just a keyboard on Excel or LibreOffice Calc.
             | 
             | BTW, I hate all the MS Office applications (and find them
             | quite buggy and annoying) except for Excel. Maybe I'm just
             | a lot more used to using Excel.
        
               | quietsegfault wrote:
               | Can't you set up keyboard shortcuts for basically any
               | action in a MacOS app?
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | As long as it has a menu item (easy) or is exposed to
               | Automator/Shortcuts (more complicated).
        
               | cyberge99 wrote:
               | There are apps to assign a key combinations to any
               | menubar dropdown menus.
        
               | bt1a wrote:
               | You may want to look into Karabiner Elements.
               | Understandable if one doesn't want to have to allow a
               | privileged daemon access to key inputs, but it allows for
               | complex, application-focus-aware shortcuts. In the past I
               | used a "Windows on MacOS" config preset because it
               | allowed for my 60~70 key keyboard to operate similarly
               | across win/linux/macos. Finally killed my last windows
               | boot drive and main linux... but I do have a ritualistic
               | annual step into a windows vm to file taxes on crack err
               | with a crakced turbotax hehehe. In-tooits lobbying
               | malpractice is deserving of petty flippancy
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | Numbers has a lot of keyboard shortcuts [1]. Are there
               | particular ones you're missing? Or is your issue that
               | Numbers has _different_ keyboard shortcuts from the ones
               | you 're used to in Excel?
               | 
               | [1] https://support.apple.com/en-
               | ca/guide/numbers/tana45192591/m...
        
             | Foivos wrote:
             | Did you really have compatibility issues with MS office in
             | the last 15 years?
        
             | WarcrimeActual wrote:
             | >and it's not close.
             | 
             | This line right he is where I will always stop reading any
             | reply, and block any YouTube channel that uses it in a
             | title. Mind numbingly overused. It's literally verbal
             | clickbait.
        
             | jimmoores wrote:
             | Frankly, if you think that, you're not exactly a power user
             | of office suites. Apple apps are a complete joke in the
             | professional world.
        
           | codeulike wrote:
           | Exactly. So many people on hn have no idea how diversified
           | Microsoft is, and have no inkling of what the enterprise
           | market is like
        
             | Petersipoi wrote:
             | On the contrary, nobody here is suggesting Microsoft isn't
             | really diverse. They're suggesting that Apple is going to
             | start to eat into their SMB market.
             | 
             | Nobody at Microsoft is saying, "we don't care if Apple
             | chips away at SMB because we have Call of Duty"
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | Microsoft offers Office for Mac. It's a thing they do.
               | It's the full fledged Office suite. They see a Mac user
               | the same way they see a Windows user - a source of
               | revenue.
        
               | grumpyprole wrote:
               | Not always. There's no Minecraft for Mac, they even
               | prohibited Macs running the iPad version. It's
               | essentially been ported to Apples APIs but purposely
               | withheld from macOS.
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | I'm talking about enterprise software, not games.
               | Minecraft exists for Mac, grab the Java version.
        
               | genthree wrote:
               | Anyone on Bedrock Minecraft is probably there for the
               | cross-platform multiplayer. The Java version doesn't
               | substitute for that. (MS made Bedrock and Java
               | incompatible so they can rent-seek on closed mod and
               | server-hosting "marketplaces"; can't let people share
               | things and have fun without paying a middleman after all,
               | think of the wasted "productivity"!)
        
               | Foivos wrote:
               | Office for Mac is increasingly getting feature parity
               | with the windows version, but it is not fully there yet.
               | 
               | For example, if you want to use "data model" in Excel, it
               | is only available in the windows version.
        
           | selfmodruntime wrote:
           | No way. Intune and Entra are _the_ vendor-lock in
           | technologies that cement a business via m365 for the long
           | haul.
        
           | downrightmike wrote:
           | No, it isn't 365, it is 365 + (forced ai)
        
         | 999900000999 wrote:
         | *499$ with an EDU discount which definitely means they have
         | margin for business deals.
         | 
         | Revenge of the Mac. Theirs simply no reason for any normal
         | person to buy anything else. The year of Linux is deferred yet
         | again.
        
           | martibravo wrote:
           | Agreed. I'd love to see what prices companies get for volume
           | purchases. I'm the IT Manager in a small team and if the Neo
           | and this was available last year when we set up
           | MDM/Exchange/SharePoint I would have considered it. Specially
           | on the hardware side, ROI/longevity on an Apple Silicon
           | Macbook is times higher than any given Windows laptop.
        
             | 999900000999 wrote:
             | Less stuff to go wrong.
             | 
             | One point of contact for support.
             | 
             | Microsoft isn't going to get it together anytime soon, it's
             | a new dawn.
        
           | RussianCow wrote:
           | > Theirs simply no reason for any normal person to buy
           | anything else.
           | 
           | My wife currently has an old MacBook with 8GB of memory, and
           | she hits the memory limit somewhat regularly just from web
           | browsing and light productivity work. But whether more
           | breathing room in terms of memory is worth almost double the
           | price...
        
             | alcidesfonseca wrote:
             | The next neo might have the SSDs of the current pros,
             | making swapping less problematic.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | Intel or Apple Silicon? The latter manages memory much
             | better.
        
               | RussianCow wrote:
               | Intel. That's good to know! Do you know why this is?
               | Presumably because of the shared memory pool across
               | CPU/GPU, or are there other factors?
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | I keep shouting from the rooftops the fact that the Neo is
           | really not that disruptive or even necessarily that good of a
           | deal.
           | 
           | Like, have any of you actually looked at street prices at
           | Micro Center or Best Buy recently? In the price range of the
           | higher model Neo you can get a Yoga 7 with an OLED
           | convertible touch screen, 1TB storage, 16GB of RAM, along
           | with a processor with better multicore and iGPU performance
           | (Ryzen 7 AI 350) in a 2-in-1 convertible package that has
           | better battery life doing office tasks.
           | 
           | Yes, the Neo is a cheap machine, with a lot of the exact same
           | cheap machine compromises that are all over the $500-800
           | laptop market. Not really the best CPU, extremely cut-down
           | battery, missing features, etc.
           | 
           | It even loses keyboard backlighting which is such a standard
           | feature that it might be the only laptop on sale without it.
           | 
           | Losing the haptic trackpad means that the Acer you can buy at
           | Micro Center for $530 with double the RAM and way better I/O
           | (USB4, USB-A 3.0, microSD, and HDMI) has a pretty similar
           | quality of trackpad experience. Yes, I tried both in store,
           | the MacBook Neo's trackpad is really at the same level of all
           | the PC competition.
           | 
           | MacBook Pro/Air Trackpad: 10/10
           | 
           | Best PC haptic trackpads available: 8/10
           | 
           | MacBook Neo trackpad: 7/10
           | 
           | Typical PC mechanical trackpads: 6 or 7/10
           | 
           | Hell, the older generation HP EliteBook 840 G10 that Micro
           | Center sells as a business laptop makes a bunch more sense in
           | a lot of ways. It's also an all-aluminum build thin and light
           | system, comes with more RAM, which is upgradable, has a
           | fingerprint reader, backlit keyboard, etc.
        
             | selectively wrote:
             | The trackpad on the Neo is at the level of a Surface
             | trackpad, which is to say it is worlds better than the
             | typical budget junk you can pick up from Acer.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | I disagree strongly. Again, I tried it in store at the
               | exact same time as trying other laptops.
               | 
               | Yes, it's a little bit better than the alternatives, but,
               | critically, _not by much._ Not by enough to sway a
               | purchase decision.
               | 
               | It's not better than diving board mechanical trackpads by
               | enough of a margin for most consumers to notice.
               | 
               | Also, macOS over-relies on trackpad gestures. You don't
               | really need them anywhere near as much in Windows or
               | Linux. This is Apple's intention: to try and sell more
               | proprietary trackpads, because they know if their OS was
               | optimized for normal mice consumers would just buy the
               | cheap $20 mice that are better than their $100+
               | accessories.
               | 
               | The PC industry barely has to adapt to compete with the
               | Neo. I think we'll start seeing that in late 2026 and
               | 2027 when competitors arrive on Apple's doorstep.
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | One of the things is an Acer. The other is a Mac. That
               | sways purchase decisoons - one is a nice thing, the other
               | one is a low end PC.
               | 
               | I have used countless modern PC devices, including some
               | from Acer. Few PCs have a trackpad of the level of the
               | Neo and none from Acer.
               | 
               | Your logic with "Apple's intentions" reveals a person who
               | is incapable of decent analysis; macOS relies on gestures
               | a lot because the vast majority of macOS devices are
               | laptops. The desktop market is an after thought because
               | the people keep buying laptops. That's it. There's no
               | conspiracy, just a focus on the devices that the users
               | choose to buy.
               | 
               | The PC industry has almost no shot of competing with the
               | Neo. You have to spend much more than $1000 to get a nice
               | object that looks and feels _nice_. Right now, the PC
               | industry is selling Old Navy products when Hermes is the
               | same price. That is a real problem.
               | 
               | Microsoft is going to be fine. Companies that rely on
               | selling low end devices to consumers are going to suffer.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | My point is that Apple is in many ways _joining_ Acer,
               | not bringing their luxury product down to the masses.
               | 
               | Yes, in many ways they're bringing a very polished
               | product to the space. But in many other ways, look
               | closely and you'll see the cut corners.
               | 
               | Again, I've felt the Neo in person. The chassis feels
               | nice, sure. It's not built to the same level as Apple's
               | other products, though.
               | 
               | The bottom plate is not CNCed, it's a stamped aluminum
               | plate. That means there is variation in the gap along the
               | bottom of the laptop between the man case and the bottom
               | plate that doesn't exist on the Air or Pro.
               | 
               | Again, the trackpad is good but is worse than many haptic
               | trackpads offered by PC manufacturers like Lenovo.
               | 
               | Again, if you think the PC industry has no chance of
               | competing, go to your retailer website and look at street
               | prices. Look at laptop reviews from places like Just Josh
               | Tech on YouTube. PC manufacturers aren't making trash.
               | 
               | Acer is actually a great example of a really solid PC. I
               | felt the $530 model Micro Center is selling and it seemed
               | to do the job: thin and light enough, felt sturdy,
               | similar trackpad to the Neo, better specs and I/O. I'd
               | say I only wanted the display to be a little better,
               | though on the plus side it was bigger than the Neo's
               | cramped 13".
               | 
               | This isn't 2005. There is a misguided assumption to
               | assume that PCs are still trash like they were 10 years
               | ago. They just aren't.
               | 
               | One little random bit to point out: there are 100 million
               | Mac users globally as of 2024. There are more than 900
               | million PC gamers globally.
               | 
               | So, if I'm a high school student or college student who
               | has money for one computer and I am a member of that
               | group of 900 million PC gamers, I might just go get a
               | last gen Lenovo LOQ with the RTX 4050 or something
               | similar in the current gen from someone like MSI with an
               | RTX 5050.
               | 
               | I would deal with a chunkier plastickier laptop but it
               | would get similar battery life to the Neo for office
               | tasks and I could actually play games. 16GB RAM. Modular
               | storage. Price is around $700.
               | 
               | And I'll be honest, that trackpad ain't gonna be much
               | worse than the Neo. And I'll get to keep my backlit
               | keyboard and have some I/O.
        
               | selectively wrote:
               | You are deeply confused (you do not understand public
               | perception/you do not understand how choosing a ''good
               | pc'' is hard for most people/you don't grasp that a
               | luxury brand versus Acer for the same price is a no
               | brainer for most people, regardless of I/O or whatever)
               | and - frankly - you are not worth discussing anything
               | with. Have a good rest of your day.
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | >Look at laptop reviews from places like Just Josh Tech
               | on YouTube
               | 
               | I stopped reading here.
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | I will be absolutely _shocked_ if any current pc company
               | can even approach the neos build quality
               | /performance/price combo. See you next year, happy to
               | wait .
        
             | 999900000999 wrote:
             | And it comes with Windows.
             | 
             | Back in the normal world people don't use Linux. If you
             | have the funds you can get an M4 Air with 16GB for 800$.
             | 
             | I still have a 8GB M1 air, it's fine for filling out paper
             | work and watching YouTube, which is the extent of what most
             | people do
        
             | drnick1 wrote:
             | > Hell, the older generation HP EliteBook 840 G10 that
             | Micro Center sells as a business laptop makes a bunch more
             | sense in a lot of ways.
             | 
             | And the best thing is that you can format the drive,
             | install Linux, and be completely free of Microsoft and
             | Apple.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | $599 per device? Redmond will make more profit _the first year_
         | selling a 365 subscription than Apple does on the Neo.
         | 
         | The real competition is going to come from companies using the
         | $599 Neo + Google Workgroups or whatever they're calling it -
         | now Microsoft is cut out entirely.
        
           | nolok wrote:
           | > The real competition is going to come from companies using
           | the $599 Neo + Google Workgroups or whatever they're calling
           | it - now Microsoft is cut out entirely.
           | 
           | The companies doing that are cut in two groups. The one that
           | don't fully plan it and they need to do with complex excel or
           | whatever files here and there and they're still in
           | microsoft's grasp, or those that fully do and move to
           | disposable chromebook.
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | They need to _commit_ to this, and execute, though. This feels
         | very much like yet another half-hearted Apple initiative.
        
           | Henchman21 wrote:
           | Everything is half-hearted from Apple since Steve died. He
           | was the beating heart. Who has stepped into that role? Like
           | for real? Anyone? I'm just not seeing it
        
             | rogerrogerr wrote:
             | Does it matter? Apple's revenue/profit was $108B/$25B in
             | 2011. It was $416B/$112B in 2025. They're clearly doing
             | something right.
        
               | theonemind wrote:
               | I think the average idiot can take a really strong
               | business and weaken the bones for some quarters or years
               | of extra profit, possibly insane profit, before lack of
               | focus on what really made the company strong starts to
               | erode the fundamentals. I think we're seeing that with
               | Apple personally. It's just colossal though so there's a
               | lot of squeezing and a lot of profit before it really
               | catches up. And they don't even disappear. They just
               | become lumbering monsters like Microsoft, IBM, and HP
               | that people don't use because they want to. HP was
               | legitimately a great company.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Serviceable != upgradable or long-lasting.
         | 
         | So many people are going to get burned by the hypnotism of
         | these Neos. They're going to be gateways into being traded in
         | within 2-3 years to get something with more RAM and storage
         | when their owners find out how much they struggle with basic
         | tasks due to insufficient RAM and storage.
         | 
         | If you actually go on Best Buy or Micro Center websites and
         | look at street prices you'll realize that the Neo isn't
         | actually that disruptive.
         | 
         | The trackpad is mid. I've tried it. It's mid enough that
         | basically any PC can compete with the trackpad experience.
         | There are multiple $500-800 PCs that are easy recommendations
         | as alternatives, all with 16GB of RAM, all with modular
         | storage.
         | 
         | The battery in the Neo is so small that even with the extremely
         | efficient iPhone processor inside, basic Windows laptops can
         | beat the Neo in battery life. Grab a Yoga 7 and you've got
         | double the RAM, 2-in-1 convertible touch screen, and better
         | battery life. Oh yeah, and you get a better OLED panel, too.
        
           | Petersipoi wrote:
           | $500 for 2-3 years is great. And it will last much longer
           | than that in reality.
           | 
           | It's pretty plain to see that the Neo eats any competitors
           | lunch at that price point. It isn't close.
        
             | dangus wrote:
             | The computer is $600. It's only $500 on the education
             | store. Many Apple customers will not have access. Anyone
             | who walks into a physical Apple Store will have to prove
             | their eduction status.
             | 
             | I am not sure why it's eating competitors lunch when many
             | very well-regarded competitors are in the price range
             | available at stores.
             | 
             | What's better about a Neo than a Yoga 7? Same price range.
             | 
             | https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-
             | yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot...
             | 
             | This is $40 more than the Neo's top model and you get
             | double the RAM and an OLED convertible touch screen.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | Aside from the pitiful screen resolution for a 14-inch
               | screen and the fact that the Lenovo has a fan, they are
               | indeed similar.
               | 
               | But I don't know why you cannot see it as terrible for
               | the PC makers that Apple finally has entered the
               | sub-1000$ market. Since Apple has existed they've been in
               | the high-end of the market, and now they're not. The
               | Lenovo I'm sure is fine, but what it doesn't have is
               | clarity of purpose. The Neo is a laptop and nothing else.
               | Which leads me to question whether that very complicated
               | Lenovo hinge will survive the 7 years my Mac laptops give
               | me.
        
           | sleepybrett wrote:
           | My phone costs twice as much and I replace it every 2-3
           | years.
           | 
           | You know what people who outgrow their applebooks are going
           | to do? Buy a macbook air or pro. They aren't going to buy a
           | windows machine. Some might buy a linux machine.
        
           | carlosjobim wrote:
           | Millions and millions of normal people have used 8GB M-series
           | Macbooks for the past 5 years, and nobody has those problems
           | you describe. In fact, everybody is happy to have machines
           | which don't have the usual problems that PCs have.
           | 
           | Computing tasks related to real world scenarios don't need
           | giant RAM repositories, as evident in that people could do
           | these tasks just fine when 32 _megabytes_ of RAM was enough.
        
           | Schiendelman wrote:
           | I think you might be very surprised by what you can do with
           | eight gigs of RAM on Apple Silicon. Apple does hardware
           | compression into memory - it performs as well as a 16 GB
           | machine did with an Intel chip.
        
             | dointheatl wrote:
             | I don't think you get it, OC tried the trackpad in a
             | MicroCenter. It's game over.
        
               | givinguflac wrote:
               | Thank you, point well made!
        
         | p_ing wrote:
         | This ignores that Apple is unable to manufacture enough
         | computers per year to be disruptive.
         | 
         | 25m Macs in calendar year 2025. Lenovo manufactured 19m PCs in
         | Q4 2025.
         | 
         | Apple simply lacks volume.
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | Weird, never had an issue getting my hands on an Apple laptop
           | of any desired configuration, even odd keyboard layouts for
           | the region (UK and Sweden).
           | 
           | Had plenty of issues getting specific specification
           | Thinkpads: because they are largely sold through resellers
           | and they don't stock all SKUs I suppose.
        
             | p_ing wrote:
             | No where did I say you can't get a hold of one, I said they
             | don't have the volume. They're behind Lenovo, HP, and Dell.
             | 
             | The x86 market is massive and dwarfs Apple's Mac
             | manufacturing.
        
               | dijit wrote:
               | I don't buy this reasoning until there is evidence of
               | orders going unfulfilled.
               | 
               | I could make 20M units of something and leave my
               | resellers as bagholders who then have to sell years old
               | hardware at a discount- and by the internal consistency
               | of your logic: I would have the volumes.
        
               | mlsu wrote:
               | Isn't this an artifact of the demand side and not the
               | supply side?
               | 
               | Yes, apple shipped fewer laptops than dell in 2025.
               | That's because Apple laptops started at $1100 in 2025.
               | 
               | They won't have a problem securing the chips for Mac
               | Neo's, they're the same SOC as the iPhone. What, Apple is
               | going to have an issue manufacturing a few million
               | motherboards?
        
           | doctorpangloss wrote:
           | okay dude, how many phones did it manufacture in Q4 2025?
           | 
           | 87m
           | 
           | https://www.semiconductor-
           | today.com/news_items/2026/mar/tern...
           | 
           | do you think lenovo would rather manufacture 19m PCs or 87m
           | phones? i don't know, you raise an interesting point that is
           | wrong.
        
             | p_ing wrote:
             | It looks like you have this discussion confused. This is
             | about Macs, not phones.
        
               | F7F7F7 wrote:
               | Sure, Apple's dominance in sourcing, manufacturing and
               | all other aspects of logistics surely has no place in
               | this conversation. '
               | 
               | The NEO is a masterclass in how integrated these systems
               | actually are.
        
           | tengbretson wrote:
           | I imagine the company that currently ships 250m iPhones a
           | year can figure that part out.
        
             | FinnKuhn wrote:
             | Especially due to Apple having a lot less SKUs (compared to
             | Lenovo) and having a lot more control over important parts
             | such as CPUs.
        
           | odiroot wrote:
           | So Lenovo wins in both quantity and quality (at least for T/X
           | series), let alone configurability.
        
         | john_strinlai wrote:
         | > _I 'd be scared if I was certain Redmond corporation who
         | makes their money on 365 and Intune._
         | 
         | scared of what? microsoft doesnt need to care about new
         | businesses with under 50 employees at all. they have
         | governments, banks, universities, colleges, and large non-tech
         | enterprises completely locked down. small business with 10-50
         | devices are a drop in the ocean.
         | 
         | > _New businesses under 50 employees are going to eat this up
         | like there 's no tomorrow._
         | 
         | i seriously doubt people outside of the tech or design spheres
         | (i.e. most people) are going to go with apple for their
         | businesses. when you are starting a business, you dont want to
         | also have to teach all of your employees (and possibly
         | yourself) how to use a new operating system.
         | 
         | you are going to look up "local IT company" or "local MSP", ask
         | them to set you up, and they will integrate you into their
         | existing microsoft ecosystem and send over some thinkpads,
         | while you focus on your business.
        
         | monster_truck wrote:
         | The companies I know of that would be most likely to do this
         | would never buy these because of the integrated webcams, and no
         | "you can disconnect them easily" is not acceptable, as a matter
         | of policy.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | I recently switched from a Microsoft heavy company to an Apple
         | heavy company.
         | 
         | Since the early 2000's, I've been bad mouthing Outlook, for a
         | whole lot of reasons.
         | 
         | Let's just say: I miss Outlook. And it's still terrible.
        
         | x0x0 wrote:
         | Apple would be near the top of my list of companies incapable
         | of building software that will do this. I cannot believe anyone
         | who has tried Mail.app would be interested in using that for
         | their business. I tried it for 3-ish months and had immense
         | trouble reliably threading, seeing responses, with search, etc.
         | 
         | There's 0 way they have competent, reliable, working group
         | calendaring.
        
           | givinguflac wrote:
           | Are you talking Mac or iOS? I have never had an issue on
           | iPhone's mail app, though my desktop is Linux so I don't
           | know? Hence the question. I've never experienced any of that.
           | Thanks
        
           | aucisson_masque wrote:
           | I have had plenty of issues with outlook, I had to force
           | close it at least once per day. Macos mail app was very good
           | for my business need, it was a small one but had to deal with
           | hundreds of mails everyday.
           | 
           | Plus you don't get that proprietary format pst when you
           | backup the mails.
        
       | throwaw12 wrote:
       | I assume this is a SaaS by Apple which covers some parts of
       | Workday and Google suite for the beginning
       | 
       | They're basically planning to enter the market where Microsoft
       | has dominant position.
        
       | giobox wrote:
       | How does this differ from the existing "Business Essentials"
       | tool? The landing page for each looks like much the same product,
       | at least the MDM stuff does?
       | 
       | > https://business.apple.com/preview
       | 
       | > https://www.apple.com/business/essentials/
        
         | martibravo wrote:
         | Email, Calendar and company directory built in, custom domains
         | in emails I think... It's more like a MS365 basic version.
         | Which for most small teams is more than enough
        
         | workfromspace wrote:
         | Maybe also 200 countries included, instead of just the USA?
        
         | jacobgkau wrote:
         | One of the footnotes at the bottom of the page says:
         | 
         | > Apple Business Essentials, Apple Business Manager, and Apple
         | Business Connect will no longer be available once Apple
         | Business launches.
         | 
         | So it's a consolidation. They call out Business Connect data as
         | "including claimed locations, place card information, photos,
         | organization information, account details, and more," so that's
         | some of what differs from Business Essentials.
        
       | AlotOfReading wrote:
       | I occasionally trial complete switches to Apple services to see
       | if they're viable as Google alternatives. This weekend was Apple
       | maps and it's finally met my standard of "usable", though not
       | quite "good". One of the places it beat Google maps was the lack
       | of integrated advertising places, which have enshittified the
       | latter.
       | 
       | I'm glad Apple announced their own plans to enshittify before I
       | got my hopes up.
        
         | Barbing wrote:
         | Such a huge bummer.
         | 
         | Hey, Big Ad Tech, come try enshitify my Rand McNally.
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | So do enterprises still need Jamf [1]? For context, Jamf is one
       | of the most common MDM tools for organizations.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.jamf.com/
        
         | awakeasleep wrote:
         | Big yes. Enterprises need support and a relationship with their
         | supplier where their needs can change product direction.
         | 
         | Jamf will do that. Apple will not.
        
           | drcongo wrote:
           | Dunno if you've ever had a business relationship with Apple
           | but they're really good on that front. Proactive and helpful,
           | along with always trying to sell you stuff, but proactive and
           | helpful nonetheless.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | A B2C relationship and a B2B relationship are not the same
             | thing. Apple does well with the B2C pipeline, but they will
             | only surpass Jamf in the B2B department if they play dirty.
        
               | drcongo wrote:
               | By business relationship I meant B2B. They're excellent.
        
               | awakeasleep wrote:
               | I have managed multiple relationships with Apple business
               | and the only thing I can think you could possibly be
               | talking about is having a local store reserve devices for
               | you to buy.
               | 
               | As far as identifying a bug in the software and getting
               | it fixed, or requesting a feature, you run into a brick
               | wall. Taking that feedback from customers is not the
               | Apple way. This is why there is a market for third party
               | MDM companies in the first place.
        
               | drcongo wrote:
               | I've decided you're probably right, I retract my earlier
               | comments.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Relative to what? The top comment in this thread is a
               | 3-person chain explaining how their B2B accounts were
               | locked with no communication or recourse.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | Yep. People who have never tried to add Mac support to an
         | existing organization do not realize how freaking expensive it
         | is.
         | 
         | There are basically two cases. If you use Microsoft, you are
         | often already paying for Entra ID and Intune, then still adding
         | the Apple-side pieces for Mac support: Apple Business Manager
         | and often Jamf or Kandji. If you do not use Microsoft, you are
         | buying the full stack yourself: Okta or JumpCloud for identity,
         | Jamf or Kandji for device management, and Apple Business
         | Manager for enrollment. Apple Business Manager is free, but the
         | rest is not, and the cost adds up fast.
         | 
         | This means that, in practice, a managed Mac can easily end up
         | costing close to twice as much to support as a Windows device.
        
           | xbryanx wrote:
           | Totally agree on the hidden costs. We've seen some great
           | value in going with Mosyle for this. Lots cheaper, and it
           | "just works."
           | 
           | https://mosyle.com/
        
           | wpm wrote:
           | The only thing you _need_ out of any of those to correctly
           | support the Mac is an MDM, of which there are free ones and
           | expensive ones and everything in between. So long as it can
           | deploy configuration profiles and declarative management
           | configs, you can spin up Munki to be your pkg /script runner
           | and script the rest. Installomator to install and patch
           | applications.
           | 
           | But if you also wanted identity, there are plenty of free
           | selfhostable SSO/ID providers out there. If you're just
           | starting out and not at the scale where a big Microsoft
           | CoPilotM365OfficeWhatever contract makes sense, you probably
           | don't even really have a need for a lot of this stuff. A
           | minimum contract for Jamf Pro is like $5k a year or
           | something. That's two well kitted developer MacBook Pros per
           | year in license costs.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Actually Intune handles MacOS reasonably well, you don't need
           | Jamf; that's the way we went, and it's okay-ish for the most
           | part. By far the annoyingest thing is getting Macs bought
           | before we went down the Business Manager integration route
           | into MDM.
           | 
           | You think there's a standard way to do that? Just install
           | company portal? That worked in exactly 1/20 cases. It's an
           | exciting new error on every single device. Awful. Just awful.
        
         | ibejoeb wrote:
         | It's not apparent that this apple mdm will do internal
         | distribution or just provide for encouraging a set of installed
         | apps already on the app store. If it does, that would be the
         | biggest reason for me to jump to the free product.
        
       | monegator wrote:
       | Will we be able to change our company details? A couple of years
       | ago we changed the business name, so let's change it in the
       | account for billing and such.
       | 
       | Not possible.
       | 
       | Ok, let's ask support what to do: the only thing we can do is
       | create a new account, get the approval, etc. and then ask for a
       | migration that may or may not be approved and may or may not end
       | succesfully.
       | 
       | In the end we keep receiving the bills in the old name, then
       | change it manually or append a note.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | I guess ultimately it's easier and works better than when you
         | move country and would like to update the country for PSN
         | (PlayStation Network). Sony's advice? Close the old account and
         | open a new one with the correct country, then buy the same
         | stuff again.
        
           | iknowstuff wrote:
           | Haha ah of course. It's not like you ever actually owned them
           | in the first place.
        
         | Marsymars wrote:
         | A bit like the awful workflow around developer agreements in
         | App Store Connect. Every few months our CI breaks because Apple
         | has updated one agreement or another and someone has to go
         | pester the executive who's marked as the account owner and has
         | legal authority to sign new agreements to unbreak our CI.
         | 
         | It's also impossible to delegate this authority to anyone other
         | than the account owner, and there's no concept of shared or
         | service accounts, so nobody other than the account owner, with
         | access to their 2FA method is able to do this.
         | 
         | Heaven forbid if the account owner was ever to put their 2FA
         | method as a personal device / phone and then leave the company.
        
           | monegator wrote:
           | All of these, too. Then for some goddamn reason i no longer
           | can just input the username and password: for one of the
           | developer accounts it has decided that i also have to decide
           | wether i want to authenticate with an apple device, or by
           | password. So it's another couple of clicks i can't get rid of
        
         | moduspol wrote:
         | I'm called by a name that is not the same as my legal name. I
         | somehow got an Apple Developer account during the first few
         | years of it with my preferred name, but it had my parents'
         | house as the mailing address.
         | 
         | I was essentially told that I could update the mailing address
         | but going through the steps for that process would result in
         | the name on my account being changed to the legal name. And so
         | today, it still has my parents' mailing address. Thankfully
         | they haven't moved.
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | I've still got a phantom child on my Apple account because
           | when I tried to create a child's account many years ago for
           | my son it somehow messed up and used the current year instead
           | of his birth year. Support said too bad, no possible way to
           | fix that. So I had to create another account for my real son,
           | and while he grew up and moved out, my phantom son still
           | lives with us for another nine years until it is old enough
           | that I can delete it.
        
             | moduspol wrote:
             | I hope he at least gets his own cake on his birthday.
        
       | creantum wrote:
       | I had to look at my calendar to be sure it wasn't 2001
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | > Starting April 14, Apple Business will be available as a free
       | service in the U.S. and 200+ countries and regions to new and
       | existing users of Apple Business Connect, Apple Business
       | Essentials, and Apple Business Manager.
       | 
       | Does this mean -- Always Free or Introductory Free for now?
        
         | martibravo wrote:
         | I understand it's free to set up the business but iCloud,
         | AppleCare and Email/Calendar storage past the free (I suppose
         | tiny) allowance are paid. As Apple loves, freemium with in-app
         | purchases!
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | It is very funny that a business-oriented product does not
       | highlight Apple's business productivity software in iWork
       | (Pages/Numbers/Keynote).
        
         | steve1977 wrote:
         | I thought that's now considered creator productivity software.
        
       | Nevermark wrote:
       | Machines spec'd and priced for education? Support for businesses?
       | 
       | I remember this!
        
       | jwlake wrote:
       | A non-terrible MDM that actually works would be really nice. The
       | rest I doubt they get much traction on. Gmail is too easy, Google
       | docs and sheets if you don't need Microsoft is also way better
       | than Apple's free apps.
        
         | rjrjrjrj wrote:
         | Is it possible to make a non-terrible MDM?
         | 
         | Not a particular area of expertise for me, but the times I've
         | had to deal with it just seemed like an inherently complex and
         | messy problem.
        
           | jwlake wrote:
           | I would expect Apple to actually simplify the problem and not
           | overreach and just do activation / provisioning /
           | deactivation / lock and none of the other stuff MDMs try to
           | do that introduces the complexity.
        
           | p2detar wrote:
           | That's because it is a complex and messy problem. Especially
           | MDMs that try to unify the experience for fundamentally
           | different platforms like Apple's and Google's, and even
           | Microsoft's. I think if it's a platform-dedicated solution it
           | actually does have the chance to be much easier to operate.
           | So this thing by Apple looks interesting.
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | They've had a MDM solution for a number of years now, i've not
         | used it because the price was higher than I could afford so I
         | can't speak to if it actually works or how it is compared to
         | their competitors.
         | 
         | I can say that the MDM solution I went with leaves a lot to be
         | desired, but it works and it's cheap. Since I'm only managing
         | iPads, I really wanted to go with Apple for the simplicity,
         | but, like I said, the price was too high (at the time at
         | least).
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | So will Apple users be able disable these ads in maps?
        
         | cdrnsf wrote:
         | I would expect, much like the App Store, they will not. Their
         | maps will give you directions to navigate the enshittification
         | curve.
        
         | lowdude wrote:
         | The nice thing about many of the native apps compared to their
         | Google pendants is the absence of ads, with the glaring
         | exception of the app store, which looks like a dumpster-fire.
         | It is so disheartening to see the trend of shoving ads
         | everywhere continue with Apple as well. I guess the profits are
         | just too tempting to stick with idealistic UX decisions, if
         | there was any of that left in the first place.
        
       | wereHamster wrote:
       | business.apple.com doesn't work in Firefox, it redirects you to
       | https://business.apple.com/abm_unsupported_browser?reason=Br...
       | 
       | Fuck you Apple.
        
         | Alifatisk wrote:
         | Supported browser:         Safari (14.1 or later)
         | Chrome (87 or later)         Microsoft Edge (87 or later)
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-business-manager/progr...
         | 
         | We live in fantastic times
        
         | lowdude wrote:
         | Yes, and it works with a user agent switcher extension for
         | Firefox, which is always the cherry on top.
        
       | alexchapman wrote:
       | Wow, Apple's finally competing with Google and Microsoft, I can
       | see businesses adopting this everywhere lol, then again Idk as a
       | lot of companies are already in Google and Microsoft's ecosystem.
        
       | jryio wrote:
       | When Apple vertically integrates it works for them. All the way
       | from the cloud to the OS to the hardware. Pretty sure this will
       | beat out tools like JAMF on user privacy alone by running trusted
       | MDM adjacent tools in kernel space.
       | 
       | Yes sure you can use a different tool for any of these, defaults
       | dominate for the same reason Google pays ~15 billion to be the
       | default search engine on iPhones.
        
       | meego wrote:
       | I recently tried setting Apple Business Manager for our [?]20
       | people SME.
       | 
       | The first step was "Domain Lock/Capture" which takes over all
       | Apple accounts for a specific domain.
       | 
       | I've never had a worse experience from Apple.
       | 
       | The process is buggy, filled with foot-guns and dead ends. It
       | expects huge amounts of work from users who have had their
       | account for more than a few weeks and are expected to remove a
       | lot of their personal data before their account can be migrated
       | (e.g. do you know how to delete all your Health data?). The
       | process is also impossible to cancel.
       | 
       | Phone support was par for the course, e.g. tickets escalated to
       | the abyss, suggestions to restore workstations to factory
       | settings, etc.
       | 
       | Be warned.
        
         | geoffharcourt wrote:
         | The domain lock process was an absolute fiasco at our company.
         | I think this could work if you did this at the time your
         | company launched, but the moment you have employees who have
         | Apple IDs tied to their work email that aren't from the
         | Business Essentials system you are stuck in an impossible-to-
         | mange place.
         | 
         | There are several cheap MDM solutions for Apple devices that I
         | would rather pay for than be dependent on this. (We've used
         | SimpleMDM and love them.)
        
           | cocoflunchy wrote:
           | I'm currently in that hellish process too... I don't know how
           | to get out of it. Did you know that your employees will be
           | forbidden from downloading from the App store once you
           | launched that migration? It's a nightmare
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | Apple and MDM has always been a shit show. In the days as
             | recently as Ventura (last time I tried it), MDM bypass was
             | as simple as "null route 4 DNS entries during install
             | process, remove null routing after install complete, and
             | never be bothered by it again". This is on Apple Silicon.
             | With no workarounds or anything, upgrades work all the way
             | up to Tahoe.
             | 
             | Like really Apple, that's your device "locking"? I could
             | test activate my work Mac with my personal Apple ID while
             | doing this, no alarm bells, nothing, effectively "It's your
             | laptop now".
        
               | IrishTechie wrote:
               | The baffling thing is that iOS+MDM has been fantastic
               | over the years. macOS is a completely different beast
               | though.
        
               | jamiecurle wrote:
               | MacOS used to be excellent for a short period of time
               | when Fleetsmith existed. Then Apple purchased Fleetsmith
               | around 2020 and killed the product not long after.
               | 
               | Fortunately around the same time, JamF ended the practice
               | of the mandatory Jamf JumpStart (PS5K fee), which finally
               | made Jamf a feasible option for the company I was in at
               | the time.
        
             | wpm wrote:
             | Well yeah, the idea is that if you have ABM, you have an
             | MDM you can use to purchase licenses for them and install
             | the apps with the MDM.
        
               | IrishTechie wrote:
               | It can be done that way, but it is definitely not the
               | norm. Businesses will generally "purchase" (many for
               | EUR0) apps in ABM that are to be used for business
               | purposes and push those to devices, the user can then use
               | an Apple ID to download any other apps they want for
               | personal use.
        
               | ndespres wrote:
               | If they're using Managed Apple IDs they will have no
               | access at all to the app store and won't be able to
               | download their own apps anymore. IT department will have
               | to buy and assign any apps that anyone needs, even the $0
               | ones that only 1 person needs.
        
               | anxman wrote:
               | This was a big pain in the ass for me to figure out. I
               | ended up using the free version of Mosyle and hiring
               | someone on Fiverr to help me figure out how to get the
               | licenses assigned to our managed devices.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | How does a company allow personal Apple IDs?
        
             | pottertheotter wrote:
             | I think the idea is that it happens before they lock the
             | domain as a business. Before that, if you have an email
             | address you can create a personal account with it.
        
               | jamiecurle wrote:
               | yes, that's exactly how it happens.
        
           | pottertheotter wrote:
           | > I think this could work if you did this at the time your
           | company launched, but the moment you have employees who have
           | Apple IDs tied to their work email that aren't from the
           | Business Essentials system you are stuck in an impossible-to-
           | mange place.
           | 
           | I had the same thing happen but with Microsoft. A friend and
           | I had started a small consulting business and were using
           | Google Workspace, but I needed a Microsoft account to
           | interact with a client. I made one with my business email.
           | None of us knew any better, but I couldn't connect with our
           | client's Microsoft setup because it was a personal account.
           | So I went to set up a business account. It was a whole fiasco
           | and the only way I could really fix it was create an alias
           | and use that for Microsoft.
        
         | cj wrote:
         | We use Apple Business Manager. Locking a domain is not a
         | requirement if you're just doing basic MDM, I'm pretty sure. (I
         | also had a negative experience with it, so we didn't use it and
         | everyone just uses their personal apple IDs). Is it no longer
         | possible to skip this step in setting up the account?
        
         | quietsegfault wrote:
         | This was my experience switching from GMail to Apple's mail
         | service. I switched back after a few days.
        
           | givinguflac wrote:
           | Genuinely curious, what were the Apple mail service issues
           | for you? I hate gmail and have had zero issues with my
           | @Mac.com email in 20+ years, that I've noticed. Thanks
        
             | quietsegfault wrote:
             | Lots and lots of missing messages. That was the big one.
             | Anything from a SaaS just never arrived, like tickets,
             | notifications, etc. I had random IMAP authentication
             | failures too.
        
             | xp84 wrote:
             | Do you find that iCloud email can correctly handle both
             | "true spam" (meaning the nonsense garbage kind) and
             | "promotional email" effectively?
        
         | true_religion wrote:
         | AFAIK, it works with subdomains, so you can use something like
         | employees.example.com as your domain, and capture over that.
        
           | slyn wrote:
           | The org I work for just makes alias's - @ourbrandmdm.com for
           | ABM that forward to their @ourbrand.com emails.
        
         | razakel wrote:
         | I gave up when it wanted a Dun and Bradstreet number (whoever
         | they are) and the website to get one didn't work.
        
           | dlg wrote:
           | I have had the misfortune of having to get D&B numbers (for
           | various Apple things). I believe is the source for lead lists
           | where you start to get dozens to text and phone spam calls
           | per day. Do not pay hundreds of dollars for this if you can
           | at all avoid it.
        
             | keerthiko wrote:
             | Definitely avoid unless you are distributing a consumer
             | application through the dominant app stores (App Store and
             | Google Play) ~globally, in which case you may not be able
             | to avoid (or avoiding will be just as much work).
             | 
             | Google and Apple require it for lots of mobile apps
             | targeting certain consumer segments because some countries
             | (eg: Brazil, IIRC? don't quote me on that) have chosen to
             | use D&B as a qualified unique identifier of business
             | legitimacy and it requires exposing personal information of
             | your company's leadership to them.
        
           | yolo3000 wrote:
           | Afaik every company has a DNB number. It's a credit risk
           | company which sources company data from every country.
        
         | SoleilAbsolu wrote:
         | FWIW, my experience doing this process for a ~130 person org
         | last year was pretty painless compared to other Domain Claims
         | I've initiated for other SAAS vendors (Docusign in particular),
         | and MDM nightmares (expired JAMF certificates, I'm looking at
         | you).
         | 
         | We had to do it as ppl had made personal Apple accounts using
         | our domain, meaning if they logged in with such an account and
         | left, their iPhone magically transformed into an expensive,
         | elegant paperweight. Due to a setting in our previous MDM we
         | were unable to migrate data cleanly using Apple Biz Manager
         | without committing to use ABM as our MDM (we couldn't) so we
         | told people to "move it yourself following these detailed
         | instructions, otherwise it can't be migrated." Regarding
         | personal data like health on company-managed devices, I
         | certainly don't share that type of info with my employer, and
         | make it clear to staff that it's not our responsibility to
         | migrate such data.
        
         | czscout wrote:
         | Yes, as an IT professional at a company where a few people have
         | insisted on using Macs, the ABM workflow is by far the most
         | frustrating, half baked product I've had the displeasure of
         | using. People love to complain about Entra/Azure AD, but ABM is
         | another level of obtuse.
        
           | pseufaux wrote:
           | What's bad is that it's so much better than it used to be and
           | still this bad.
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | Same here, I never even got in. I never managed to get in. My
         | account is good enough to take my money for other things but
         | somehow I can't manage to onboard into the damn thing so that I
         | can actually manage devices for my company. I just gave up in
         | the end. Couldn't get it done.
         | 
         | I'll try again next month see how far I get with this. This
         | needs to be way simpler than it currently is. Hopefully they
         | fixed a few things there.
        
         | jiveturkey wrote:
         | you only need to do the domain lock part if you plan to use
         | MAIDs. For 20 people you probably didn't need to do that, at
         | least not at the same time as the rest. You can do it as a
         | later step, not the first step.
        
         | matt_daemon wrote:
         | Apple's cloud software has been buggy as hell for a long time,
         | at least for me.
         | 
         | I'm in a family iCloud group with my parents... one day I just
         | woke up and had all my podcasts and music replaced with my
         | Mum's :/
         | 
         | Would not want this anywhere near a "business" experience
        
       | zzyzxd wrote:
       | This is interesting to me as the IT support for my family. I have
       | been considering using MDM to provision Wi-Fi credentials and
       | other device configurations. 3rd party solutions are a little bit
       | too much for what I need.
       | 
       | Apple Business Essentials with AppleCare+ for 3 devices and 200GB
       | iCloud storage is $19.99 per user/mo. That's the same price as
       | AppleCare One alone.
        
         | alchemist1e9 wrote:
         | I wanted to use the existing ABE product for exactly that,
         | especially as you can actually lockdown apple devices properly
         | to stop teens from undoing VPN settings etc ... however it's
         | explicitly against their policies to use ABE for personal
         | devices and I'd guess the same for this new iteration of it.
        
           | zzyzxd wrote:
           | You are right. I didn't read the terms. Looks like ABE can
           | only be used by a business entity.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | For home use I think you can just generate configuration
         | profiles manually ? If you don't want to pay
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | Incredible. What is this? Actual competition? I don't believe my
       | eyes. Is Apple search next?
        
         | iknowstuff wrote:
         | they had an opening in search with Siri and AI and missed it.
        
           | steinvakt2 wrote:
           | Not necessarily missed. Maybe just late.
        
       | dfabulich wrote:
       | Strategically, Apple's not setting themselves up for success here
       | by giving Apple Business away for free (with paid per-user
       | storage bumps).
       | 
       | As a lot of people on this thread have pointed out, Apple's
       | Business Manager needs a lot of improvements. ("Bring your own
       | device" support is terrible, for example. Changing business names
       | requires a perilous migration step. Support reps don't have the
       | tools to fix serious issues.)
       | 
       | If Apple Business were a real revenue source, if they charged
       | luxury prices for a luxurious business support experience, they
       | could pay for developers to fix their stuff.
       | 
       | Instead, Apple Business is a free side hustle for Apple, a hobby.
       | But they're proposing to control your entire domain, to Domain
       | Lock all Apple accounts for your domain, to put your businesses's
       | life in their hands, for "free."
       | 
       | Don't fall for it.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | Seems like par for the course for a product launch like this.
         | I'll see where they are in a year.
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | Who would pay them for it before "developers fixed their
         | stuff"?
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | People fooled by an expectation of quality extrapolated from
           | their end-user experience. Alternatively, people who have to
           | carry out orders from managers who never have to interact
           | with it personally.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | The way it works is that Apple would have committed more
           | resources if the projected outcome was more revenue. By
           | choosing to approach it as a free option, they committed a
           | free option's worth of resourcing to it.
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | > If Apple Business were a real revenue source, if they charged
         | luxury prices for a luxurious business support experience, they
         | could pay for developers to fix their stuff.
         | 
         | Apple can already easily afford those developers. They're not
         | exactly running at a loss ;)
         | 
         | Plus given how each new iteration of macOS and iOS is a steady
         | step backwards for usability, I don't have a huge amount of
         | trust in their abilities to fix Business if it had become a
         | strategic product tomorrow.
        
           | matthewfcarlson wrote:
           | The reality is that every business unit needs to justify its
           | existence and when asking for headcount, it's easier to point
           | to a revenue stream you're tied to rather than "we help sell
           | some things to businesses"
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | Are you sure Apple does their accounting in that way?
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | Do you have a reason to believe they don't? We're not
               | talking about some weird or obscure custom, it's just
               | basic business ideas.
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | If that were the case, the only business units that would
             | ever be get funding would be the hardware sales.
             | 
             | Even with AWS I doubt many of the service teams make enough
             | money to justify their existence alone.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | You're not thinking it through. There's a rich enterprise
         | ecosystem for MDM. Microsoft, Google, Omnissa, IBM, etc.
         | 
         | They don't want to compete with those partners, and wouldn't be
         | effective if they did. But, there's a gap of smaller companies
         | and institutions where they benefit from MDM capabilities but
         | don't have the budget or wherewithal to even know how to shop
         | for MDM.
         | 
         | So they spend a bit of money, give Apple Store reps something
         | to do and add an incentive to buy another iPhone.
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | Agreed, and honestly, I'm put off by the freeness because I
         | agree it means that support will be nothing, just the Tier 1
         | call center reps who can read you scripts of how to hold down
         | the power button to reset your computer, etc.
         | 
         | And I'd be very skeptical any business user anywhere can skate
         | by on the iCloud Free Tier. Of all the stingy free tiers, it's
         | that one.
         | 
         | If they cared, they would make a Teams/Slack equivalent, a Zoom
         | Killer, maybe a Confluence Killer, and charge per head, and
         | offer storage tiers comparable to what MS and GOOG do.
         | 
         | (And no, don't even joke that Messages and FaceTime are Slack
         | and Zoom killers.)
        
       | ark4n wrote:
       | Feels like yet another distraction. I personally believe Apple
       | would benefit from a renewed focus. Product lines are growing,
       | software too, software qualify is not doing well... this is the
       | same pattern that got Apple into a mess before Jobs returned.
       | Sure, things are not exactly the same but it feels like time is
       | echoing here.
       | 
       | I am sure "BUT BUSINESS AND MONEY" is the answer but that feels
       | like a cop out in this case.
        
       | Hexigonz wrote:
       | Hard pass on ads in apple maps. Their navigation was already
       | pretty terrible, this was the reminder I needed to download
       | something else
        
       | wigster wrote:
       | do they demand 30% of turnover?
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | Of course, that's only fair.
        
       | popupeyecare wrote:
       | Will this allow iPad profiles? I think that's a feature in edu?
       | Would be a game changer.
        
       | egorfine wrote:
       | Nothing like account termination with all your corporate email
       | with no recourse and support because fuck you that's why.
       | 
       | Absolutely do not touch this product with a ten-foot pole.
        
       | FergusArgyll wrote:
       | Capitalism works, it may work slowly enough for HN to complain
       | but it works. When MSFT fails their customers, Apple picks up the
       | tab...
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | > _Company data remains secure while employee data remains
       | private, with cryptographic separation of work and personal data
       | on devices._
       | 
       | Does this mean that I'm able to enroll two Apple Accounts on an
       | iPhone at once? Or does Apple actually think that I'm gonna be
       | storing personal data, such as my health data, on a company
       | device with a company-managed Apple Account?
       | 
       | At the moment I just have two iPhones: my personal iPhone that
       | has my data and is connected to my Apple Watch, and my work
       | iPhone, which sits on a desk and does nothing. The separate Apple
       | Account on the work one means that I can't connect it to an Apple
       | Watch and I can't download my apps on it, so you either can't
       | accumulate any personal data on the device, or you need to submit
       | all of your personal data to your employer's Apple Account.
       | Including whatever health data your Apple Watch produces.
        
       | miskin wrote:
       | It would be great if you could get correct invoice and pay price
       | without VAT in EU as a VAT registered business. It is incredible
       | they can get around without providing such a basic thing for so
       | long.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | So they try to pull a Microsoft?
        
       | dzonga wrote:
       | now Apple is going for the jagular.
       | 
       | if they can also monetize - location api - via Apple Maps +
       | business messaging that's easily 3+ Billion of revenue yearly.
        
       | ecommerceguy wrote:
       | It would be nice to kick google to the curb. I hope this product
       | matures.
        
       | jms703 wrote:
       | Worth repeating: Never tie your personal phone to your work
       | stuff.
        
         | dandellion wrote:
         | Worth repeating as well: Never tie your work stuff to Apple.
        
       | julianozen wrote:
       | Does Apple support multiple iCloud accounts on a device yet?
        
         | jiveturkey wrote:
         | no, but many apps can independently use a different Apple (nee
         | iCloud) Account specifically for that app.
         | 
         | that said, you can create multiple users per macOS device, and
         | each can have a different Apple Account. that's a nightmare,
         | because some significant areas of device management assume a
         | single Apple Account. So for example you can use a 2nd account
         | to get around Activation Lock in some cases.
        
         | npilk wrote:
         | Can you not make two user accounts on a Mac and sign them into
         | different iCloud accounts? I know you're limited to one on
         | iPhone and iPad, though.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | It's not clear to me if the MDM is included for free as well or
       | if that will continue to be charged separately (or on top). I
       | looked into their MDM, but ended up going with Mosyle instead
       | because the costs were significantly lower for me.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | If I'm understanding this correctly it's a one stop shop for an
       | entire out of the box it department.
        
         | hu3 wrote:
         | No, there's no mention of MDM.
        
           | carlesfe wrote:
           | Ctrl-F MDM
           | 
           | "Apple Business offers built-in mobile device management
           | (MDM) [...]"
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | Out of curiosity, why would any business with an IT department
       | choose this over an in-house solution built from standard open
       | source components. Think email server on premises or in the cloud
       | using postfix/dovecot/LDAP, maybe Nextcloud with OnlyOffice,
       | Jitsi as a Zoom substitute, etc. These are all mature solutions
       | that are free of vendor lock-in, and can be easily managed by any
       | competent IT team.
        
         | jiveturkey wrote:
         | you wouldn't. a business _without_ an IT department would
         | choose this.
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | so they can fire the IT department and save $500k+ / year
        
       | lvl155 wrote:
       | I detest Apple for constantly bothering me at the store for small
       | business sales pitch. Apple Store experience has really gone down
       | the hill.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Given previous Apple adventures on the server room, not sure if I
       | would bet on this staying around.
        
       | poemxo wrote:
       | This is cute but it's missing programmable documents (Microsoft)
       | or hooks to use AI (Google) to really challenge either
       | competitor.
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | This announcement is pretty sad. If you're wondering why Apple is
       | an IT department nightmare, this announcement is more of a
       | confession. Today your corporate MacBook can have ...
       | preinstalled software! And user groups (for the Apple store and
       | iCloud).
       | 
       | Wait, there's more!
       | 
       | > In addition, customers can now set up business email, calendar,
       | and directory services with their own domain name for seamless
       | and elevated communication and collaboration.
       | 
       | Wow, a custom domain name!
       | 
       | > Apple Business enables automated Managed Apple Account creation
       | for new employees through integration with an identity service
       | provider, including Google Workspace, Microsoft Entra ID, and
       | more.
       | 
       | In the year 2026, I can finally start logging into my corporate
       | laptop with my corporate ID. Wow!
       | 
       | Them stapling on the announcement of advertisements for Apple
       | Maps is especially hilarious. I don't think the people managing
       | fleet devices at a corporation are the same people who are
       | interested in setting their location ad strategy. But Apple saw
       | they had two vaguely business-y things at the same time and
       | thought they would really hit it off together.
       | 
       | I have to imagine that the Apple Neo is heavily aimed at volume
       | sales - low level white collar workers and education. These
       | features seem to be hastily assembled to meet the needs of these
       | potential buyers.
        
       | aetherspawn wrote:
       | A few months ago, on a price hike announcement for Office365
       | posted here to YC HN, I made a comment that MDM is expensive, had
       | high MOQs (Mosyle, Jamf) and fundamentally still doesn't work as
       | well as Windows and Intune. I also lamented that Microsoft keeps
       | hiking prices and that it's silly we're normalising $20+ per user
       | per month when we used to pay once for these things.
       | 
       | I lamented how Apple hardware is now the same price as the other
       | vendors, yet best in class for quality and how Dell and HP are
       | hiking their laptop pricing lately due to supply shortages.
       | Especially on their pro lines, which have been quoted to me as
       | twice the price of equivalent MacBooks.
       | 
       | I mentioned Apple would be silly not to make a further global
       | move into MDM and email hosting territory. Particularly for small
       | business owners: 1-10 person shops and retail who use mostly
       | cloud based POS applications.
       | 
       | Others responded at the time, and I agreed with it, that it seems
       | unlikely Apple would make a business move. After all, they don't
       | have much history with business, or perhaps they did but they
       | didn't like the market and wrapped it up.
       | 
       | Well, with this announcement, and with the confirmation that
       | *Apple native email hosting is coming* I am very excited to trial
       | it when it lands in April. Over the last few months, our small
       | business has already cracked it and downgraded most of our email
       | hosting to Exchange Plan 1 and dropped the desktop Office suite
       | in favour of Pages and Numbers, which are both free and
       | absolutely working fine. In fact, I've found Pages to be less
       | laggy and more stable than Word in very large documents such as
       | 300+ pages. The logical next step for us is to fully drop our
       | third-party MDM and review whether Apple's native MDM, email and
       | identity systems are adequate for transition. We have saved
       | thousands of $$ so far and stand to save a lot more!
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Are they taking 30% of the payments?
        
       | anizan wrote:
       | Apple should compete with Google workplace or at the very least
       | at least offer custom domain e-mail inboxes.
        
       | arikrahman wrote:
       | After bricking a 2 year old phone after a software update, I'm
       | reluctant with handling my entire business with them.
        
       | MagicMoonlight wrote:
       | If Apple can turn it into a replacement for 365, they could kill
       | microslop altogether. They rinse basically every organisation in
       | the country, even though their products suck.
        
       | eastbound wrote:
       | The big news here is the MDM, for free!
       | 
       | It used to be necessary to use a slew of dodgy providers like
       | Jama, with is 2000 website (and why would I trust any small
       | company with all my enterprise data). ABM didn't provide the MDM
       | part and that was most annoying. It seems normal to integrate
       | account management and MDM, so I'd love to use it.
       | 
       | That ABM is full of bugs, the Apple team incompetent, and D&B
       | being Dumb and Dunber is another question.
        
       | obsidianbases1 wrote:
       | Hey Siri, should I use Apple Business?
        
       | cheriot wrote:
       | Jamf shareholders got very lucky. The acquisition closed less
       | than 2 months ago. Tough day for the new PE owners, though.
       | 
       | https://finance.yahoo.com/news/francisco-partners-completes-...
        
         | neeeeeeal wrote:
         | Not so sure about this. The level of configurability in AB is
         | significantly less than what is available in established
         | platforms like Jamf, Addigy, etc. The AB offering seems
         | squarely targeted at smaller orgs, and may be a great fit, but
         | is nowhere near as mature as a midsize/enterprise customer
         | would need.
         | 
         | That said, who knows where this will go in the coming years.
        
       | DrewADesign wrote:
       | _Wow..._ I might be missing something, but _not once_ did I see
       | AI mentioned! Apple is no slouch in the marketing department--
       | this is _surely_ a deliberate omission. It looks like marketers
       | are finally catching up with public sentiment. I'm sure a lot of
       | people will say it was their abject failure to productize their
       | AI initiatives driving this decision, but I doubt it: the people
       | they're trying to sell business services to probably don't know,
       | let alone care about that. I think this term and the industry
       | hype around it is just too radioactive to be beneficial in copy.
       | 
       | I'm happy to be corrected if I missed anything, or entertain
       | alternate conclusions. I'm no expert.
        
       | hansonkd wrote:
       | Apple is terrible for business. Every portal and product require
       | a new apple id. apple store and apple business can't be same
       | apple id. your device id can't be the same as either. Its
       | madness. Last count i have 4 apple ids that I have to shuffle
       | around.
        
       | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
       | I read the first page of text of Apple's announcement, and still
       | have absolutely zero idea what "Apple Business" is, apart from
       | the fact that it will "manage devices" and "configure employee
       | groups".
       | 
       | Since I have no no employees and my devices are under control, I
       | guess it's not for me, whatever it is.
        
       | jimmoores wrote:
       | The statement that Apple has been supporting businesses for
       | decades is just the most self-serving bunch of crap. You can tell
       | how thin this is by the way they push local ads on Maps as some
       | kind of headline feature. What a joke.
        
       | aucisson_masque wrote:
       | > including a new option coming this summer that will enable
       | businesses in the U.S. and Canada to place local ads in Maps
       | during key search and discovery moments.
       | 
       | It's happening. The end is near !!!
        
       | danpasca wrote:
       | > Starting April 14, Apple Business will be available as a free
       | service in the U.S. and 200+ countries and regions to new and
       | existing users of Apple Business Connect, Apple Business
       | Essentials, and Apple Business Manager.
       | 
       | > Apple Business Essentials, Apple Business Manager, and Apple
       | Business Connect will no longer be available once Apple Business
       | launches. Business Essentials customers will no longer be charged
       | their monthly service fee for device management after April 14.
       | Existing Business Connect data -- including claimed locations,
       | place card information, photos, organization information, account
       | details, and more -- will automatically migrate to Apple Business
       | at launch.
       | 
       | I don't get it. Is this free? If so this is insane value compared
       | to everything else.
        
       | nektro wrote:
       | between the neo and now this, apple is setting itself to eat _a
       | lot_ of google 's lunch
        
       | Traster wrote:
       | This is just Apple saying "We own all user compute now". Yeah you
       | guys can fight over data centres. But every device that a user
       | physically has will be an Apple device. They've now got the full
       | range of price points from low cost to prosumer, and they've got
       | the software stack to back it up so you can have your sales staff
       | running neos logging in to their CRM, engineers running their
       | Mabcook Pros.
       | 
       | It's kind of insane the advantage Apple Silicon has brought along
       | with the brutal price competition PC sales. The only question I
       | have is whether this touches the sides. That is to say - they
       | sell a billion iPhones, is the consumer laptop and low end
       | business sales enough to bump the numbers. They're thinner
       | margins, and that market has to some extent been on a downward
       | trend (which is why the stock market is running to data centres
       | where the compute actually happens).
        
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