[HN Gopher] Overcoming the friendship recession
___________________________________________________________________
Overcoming the friendship recession
Author : surprisetalk
Score : 104 points
Date : 2026-03-20 12:42 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (joeprevite.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (joeprevite.com)
| hrdwdmrbl wrote:
| Unfortunately many people now strongly dislike receiving
| unexpected phone calls. You may (i have) genuinely upset some
| people by calling them. Yes, I'm rolling my eyes too, but that's
| how they feel
| metalman wrote:
| many people are now unable to discuss personal things at all,
| as I have a small business that is growing, I have interviewed
| hundreds of people seeking employment, and flat out refuse to
| even talk about resumes or past qualifications, as what counts
| in this case is an ability to comunicate verbaly about a
| combination of technical specifications, and then the mundane
| details of achiving them, so a verbal interview,that focuses on
| there full skill sets, and youth, mentors, and other
| influenced, many choke and hand up, sputter and repeat the
| speel they have practiced, one in 50 can roll with it
| cheerfully.
| charlie0 wrote:
| I wonder what is driving this. I too sense that people are
| really guarded these days. For me, I work remotely and it's
| hard to build true rapport through Slack.
| righthand wrote:
| Lack of barrier breaking. Fewer people call and talk
| outside of slack so it becomes the norm to not talk outside
| of slack. When you do it seems weird. Break the norm.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Why would I open up on a company chat? I don't want my life
| on record to be used against me by HR later on. I'll tell
| some friendly coworkers about vacation details, but
| certainly not on a paper trail.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| I feel that's more an issue in a job interview. You want to
| use every minute to make yourself look good, and the general
| "wisdom" is that employers don't care about your hobbies or
| social life or passions. They want someone to do the job
| right now.
| lowdude wrote:
| That was my first thought as well, and I am one of those
| people. I strongly dislike being called, especially
| unexpectedly, and much prefer a quick text message to maybe
| meet up in person, if the opportunity presents itself (e.g. if
| one of us happens to be in the town of the other one)
| drzaiusx11 wrote:
| At this point in my life if someone I actually know irl calls
| out of the blue, it induces anxiety as it's a very non-zero
| chance someone has died...
| righthand wrote:
| That's the reason I started reaching out to old friends. A
| friend had died and I knew no one else would tell them. One
| I even had to track down through email and ask for their
| new phone number. But now that I'm in regular contact I
| find calling easier and I don't have worst-case-scenario
| fears anymore.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Yeah, that's one of the reasons calls out of the blue are
| mostly reserved for emergencies in my family and friend
| group. Texts eliminate that factor, and are more polite. A
| phone call represents immediacy / urgency ("this merits
| interrupting whatever you might be doing right now"). A
| text like "hey are you free for a quick call?" lets the
| recipient pivot from what they're doing and engage on their
| terms. IMHO it's more considerate.
| groby_b wrote:
| You're about one step away from sending an email to ask
| if you can send a text to ask if you can make a phone
| call.
|
| It's not "more considerate" - you can ignore a phone call
| the same you can ignore a text. It's merely asking other
| people to optimize for you convenience only. That's
| perfectly fine to ask for, but it doesn't help with
| making friendships easy.
| Insanity wrote:
| Disagree with this. Sending a text saying "Can we call
| when you're free" is more considerate of the other
| persons time than a random call. It sounds like you're
| trying to make it sound absurd by your 'send an email to
| send a text', rather than focus on _why_ the text makes
| sense.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Thanks, yes, exactly. (I didn't respond to parent bc
| borderline trolling.)
|
| FWIW, when I do make the occasional unexpected call, I
| make sure to start the call with "sorry to interrupt,
| everyone's fine, got a sec?" or similar.
|
| Contra the other commenter's assertion, phone calls to
| friends and family are typically NOT as easily ignored as
| texts, precisely because they're not screened. Close
| friends and family leave themselves open to direct
| contact largely to account for potential emergencies.
| Their phone is going to ring and/or buzz, and (for at
| least some number of seconds) they won't know why. During
| which time they might reasonably fear it's terrible news.
| So you're starting the interaction by having interrupted
| and scared them. For no good reason. Failure to
| understand this is maybe just a sign of immaturity. Live
| long enough to be on the receiving end of such calls and
| it'll hopefully register.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| texts and emails are asynchronous. If they want to email
| me to call me, sure. I'd find it weird, but it's just as
| accessible as a text.
|
| >It's merely asking other people to optimize for you
| convenience only.
|
| no, it's compromise. Maybe they're free right now. maybe
| they are swamped all day with work or errands. Calling
| out of the blue is asking people to optimize for my
| convenience.
| c22 wrote:
| Man, this is the opposite for me. I'm filled with a great
| sense of relief any time my phone rings and I recognize the
| number...
| Insanity wrote:
| 100% this. Apart from my SO and scammers, no one randomly
| calls me. If my brother would call me out of the blue I'd
| assume the worst. (Also, the one random call I vividly
| remember getting the past years is my mom calling me to let
| me know my grandfather unexpectedly passed away).
|
| It's just needlessly anxiety-inducing. Not to mention it's
| a major inconvenience to interrupt someone randomly for a
| chat.
| drzaiusx11 wrote:
| Spam phone calls have become so horrendously common here in the
| US (multiple a day) that I just keep my mobile on do not
| disturb 24/7 with exceptions for those in my core contact
| group. Maybe I'll miss a call or two that actually had
| substance, but I'd rather be slightly more isolated than
| constantly annoyed. Find me on various online platforms with
| text chat, voice or video if you really want to reach me. Or
| don't.
| righthand wrote:
| Ridiculous how that ticked up in frequency (at least for me)
| after the last Potus election.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Did you get laid off over the year? My spams always
| skyrocket on a job search. Just shows you what they are
| really doing with your resume (despite my LinkedIn profile
| being 15 years old and mostly updated. It's not hard to get
| my resume).
|
| Also, AI acceleration the last few years. most of the calls
| I do answer are clearly fake voices trying to sound real,
| as opposed to some TTY.
| alex_suzuki wrote:
| Same here. Spam calls have really picked up these last couple
| of years, I also get multiple per day. Here in Switzerland
| you need to register with your ID to get a mobile phone
| number, but somehow these spam callers still manage to appear
| to be calling from a mobile phone, which used to be a strong
| signal for "not spam". It's gotten so bad that I completely
| ignore unknown numbers, except if I'm expecting a call. This
| has its own downsides of course. Tragedy of the commons. :-(
| Maybe call screening can help, but at least on iOS it isn't
| available yet here.
| baby wrote:
| One alternative is voice recordings on whatsapp!
| gregoriol wrote:
| This is the worst: people who use them hate the receiver
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| For my demographic (late millenial), calls imply urgency. Like,
| if I see a call from a friend out of the blue I'm worried
| something dire happened.
|
| Texting is fine. We can schedule a call or meetup from there.
| But life as is is already so spontaneous, I don't need even
| more stuff to come up.
| robocat wrote:
| So what?
|
| There are also heaps of people that love getting phonecalls, or
| love to get a nice voice message.
|
| There's a whole other world of people that call and enjoy
| calling!!!!
|
| Why let a subset of people rule your behaviour towards others
| not in that subset?
|
| When people call, I try to encourage that. Unless I'm busy or
| they're too needy, so I don't answer.
|
| I am especially encouraging towards anyone that struggles with
| text messages (one of my oldest friends was illiterate, and
| I've got other friends that would call themselves dyslexic).
|
| I undermine that by messaging when I should call, because _I_
| like the written word.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| N=1 here but I love getting out of the blue phone calls from
| the couple of friends that do it. If I can't pick up, or am too
| busy to chat, I just swipe up on of the prebaked "sorry, can't
| chat now" SMS responses.
|
| It's them who initiate 90% of the calls too, and nobody cares.
| mettamage wrote:
| One thing I read on IG that one couple decided to do in NL was
| what they call "stoepen" ("stoep" is the Dutch word for
| sidewalk). They'd get some chairs to their front yard, which is
| connected to the sidewalk, and they'd greet people and start
| chatting with them. When vibes clicked they'd invite them to come
| sit with them, until people got in the habit of sometimes coming
| by and sitting with them.
|
| So there's that. Obviously there are other ways, but thought it'd
| be fun to share.
|
| Also research on self-disclosure might help. Long story short: be
| the first to reveal some details about yourself and progressively
| go deeper to the level that you want, it's kind of a tit for tat
| type of thing. There was one popular article about it so you
| could "fall in love" but IMO it's not love, it's simply building
| a deeper connection. Check it out [1].
|
| I used to be really interested in topics like this, so if you
| want to know more about it or brainstorm, feel free to reach out.
| My email is in my profile.
|
| [1] https://36questionsinlove.com/
| ralferoo wrote:
| I wonder if that's actually related to the Afrikaans word
| "stoep", where it's used in the sense of verandah which is
| obviously where you'd sit outside the house and watch the word
| go by. Both meanings ultimately come from the original meaning
| of the word as "step".
| mettamage wrote:
| I mean...
|
| they are written the same...
|
| And given that it is Afrikaans, I guess so. Afrikaans always
| reads as "Dutch but it's a puzzle!" to me.
| giant_fern wrote:
| Very similar to this "stoop coffee" concept
|
| https://supernuclear.substack.com/p/stoop-coffee-how-a-simpl...
| CalRobert wrote:
| Ah Nice! I read about a couple in I think the Bay Area doing
| this too, to great effect
| gausswho wrote:
| It's still common parlance in New Amsterdam (New York) today.
| 'Stoopin it' with friends/strangers is thankfully quite alive.
| tmp10423288442 wrote:
| Although it unfortunately has a downscale connotation, to the
| point that there are racial slurs referencing it.
| specproc wrote:
| I've just moved to a new town, and my social life is kicking.
|
| Found a local computer club, crew of lads tinkering and using
| open source software. Really nice, smart bunch. I'm learning
| loads and appreciating their company.
|
| OP found this lacking, because it's not working fast enough and
| he's not getting enough time with people.
|
| I totally agree putting in time with old friends is always worth
| it (maybe not through surprise calls) but on a local level, I'd
| encourage patience.
|
| Things take time, friendship isn't something you can just switch
| on. It takes years, and that's the point. It's a journey, not a
| destination.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I would strongly encourage everyone to choose two or three
| friends and say "hey - I want to chat with you, but it's hard to
| schedule calls. I'm just going to try calling you sometime when I
| have a few minutes free. If you can talk, great! If you can't, no
| sweat. Sound OK?"
|
| I lowered the stakes for calling/answering/not answering, and I
| actually catch up with my friends more often.
| righthand wrote:
| I just call them. I dont think you have to reach out and send a
| "hey I have question is it okay to ask"-style entering-the-chat
| messages. The overarching problem is that everyone started
| treating communication as a formal business letter.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I agree, but the social norm (for a lot of young people) is
| not to call spontaneously - at all, ever. Giving people a
| heads up helps, and then consistently following through, is a
| step that helps make it happen.
| righthand wrote:
| Nah, just call them randomly and leave a message. I'm not
| going to have a whole social protocol for sending a phone
| call. If they don't answer or call back it's a lost cause
| communicating with them.
|
| I once dated someone who "didn't just leave the house for
| any old outing" and it became exhausting trying to figure
| out the protocol for what qualified as a worthwhile outing.
| It was easier to just dump the person instead of playing
| this little "no you're holding it wrong" game of comms.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| You're overthinking my recommendation. It's a one-time
| comment to set expectations. Nothing more.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >If they don't answer or call back it's a lost cause
| communicating with them.
|
| I mean, people are busy and schedules don't always align.
| Seems like the onus is on you if you expect another
| friend to answer whenever you feel like calling. Even
| with my parents we will check with each other via text
| before we call (being on a time zone difference doesn't
| help)
| mettamage wrote:
| Yea me too. Calling with my friends is actually a big part of
| my friendship
| lynx97 wrote:
| Remember the old IRC rule? "Don't ask to ask, just ask."
| dangond wrote:
| "Don't ask to ask, just ask" is great in general, but if I
| tell someone this, I'm not trying to schedule a single call.
| It's more asking for permission to call whenever. Depending
| on who you and your friends are, it can be necessary to give
| this heads-up at least once so that, as another user put it,
| they don't get a panic attack from an unexpected phone call.
| As an older Gen Z, it feels like no one my age really calls
| each other out-of-the-blue, and you need something like this
| to establish it.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| I realize there are generational differences but I still
| default to the assumption that calling people whenever
| (outside of 10PM-7AM for non-emergencies) is fine, unless
| someone specifically tells me otherwise
| Insanity wrote:
| I'd hate that. I have a (small) group of friends, and we play
| games (almost) every weekend morning for 1-2 hours while on
| voice chat. I really enjoy that time but we have to schedule it
| in advance, we all have stuff going on. But we've been pretty
| good at making time for each other once a week for that time.
| Most of us are in different countries now so can no longer meet
| up in person, and this has been something that works for us.
|
| If I'd get randomly called I'd actually just end up being
| annoyed, I need a sense of structure in my life lol.
| MinimalAction wrote:
| This is great, thanks for recommending me. Not sure if it'll
| work given how people could be quite busy, but nothing wrong
| with trying. No sweat.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I have found there's a reciprocal nature to it. If I keep
| trying here and there, the friend more often than not does
| try me back in turn.
|
| Many of us have kids/demanding jobs - so feeling free to just
| call when I've got ten minutes alone in the car means - at
| minimum - _one_ of us is free at that time.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| > I'm just going to try calling you sometime when I have a few
| minutes free. If you can talk, great! If you can't, no sweat.
| Sound OK?"
|
| I do it all the time. And unfortunately this still only builds
| shallow relationships or keeps them alive for longer than they
| would. Proximity is the only thing that keeps things alive.
| Physical proximity is obvious, but there are other forms of
| proximity. Regular (almost daily) texts builds online
| proximity. Being financially in a similar boat brings financial
| proximity. Being in similar stages in life brings lifestyle
| proximity. The more you start drifting away (lose proximity in
| one or more areas), the more the relationship dies. Married
| people with kids who own houses rarely stay in touch with
| single people who are traveling the world.
| obscurette wrote:
| Yes, managing relationships needs time, but there is another
| problem I see nowadays. When I was young (I'm in my sixties), it
| was normal to have friends who could be very different from you.
| They might have had qualities you didn't like at all, but you
| could still be very good friends. If I look my students
| (highschool and college level) now, they are extremely intolerant
| for differences compared to what I remember from my youth. One "I
| don't like it" problem is enough to dump any relationship. Why? I
| guess it's because of a lack of practice - you don't really need
| to interact with so many different people nowadays and
| interacting with people who are very different from you is just
| plain terrifying for many.
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| Depends? Are those more narrow one's better and people have a
| better idea of what ideal looks like?
|
| I'm kind of horrified at people saying they had/have to work at
| their best friendships as with my best friends, everything is
| seamless.
|
| There are no misunderstandings. We never have to forgive each
| other. We never even need to clarify things for each other
| much, as we are that well aligned.
|
| Granted it may not be possible, but ideally go find a better
| match in a friend.
| MarkusQ wrote:
| The axes are independent. You can have seamless friendships
| with people who are very different from you, and contentious
| relationships with folks who are just like you (but doing it
| wrong!)
|
| There's nothing wrong with having to work at friendship. For
| years I had a friend that I looked up to (and, as it turned
| out looked up to me). We were both constantly striving to
| justify the other's faith and respect. It was a lot of work
| but incredibly valuable for both of us.
| MarkusQ wrote:
| It may be terrifying, but it's also terribly important. If the
| friendship can't survive differences, you're going to silently
| censor any points of differences (real or imagined) and soon
| you're just pretending to be the people you think the other
| expects you to be. No depth of connection, no growth.
|
| You want someone to be friends with you, as you actually are.
| And that means you need to be friends with them, as they
| actually are, even if you worship different brands or vote for
| different movies.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >Why? I guess it's because of a lack of practice - you don't
| really need to interact with so many different people nowadays
| and interacting with people who are very different from you is
| just plain terrifying for many.
|
| It's not any more or less terrifying than in previous times,
| but as you wrote "you don't really need to interact with so
| many different people".
|
| I would shorten that to "you don't need so many people
| anymore". Another factor is you can easily find more agree-able
| people (or bots) to spend time with, such as on this website
| rather than a neighbor.
| nharada wrote:
| I'm curious if you think viewpoints have also gotten more
| extreme in this period. It feels like the gap in political
| ideologies has widened a lot since I was younger.
| obscurette wrote:
| The gaps in views are certainly widening in societies in
| general, but my point wasn't exactly that. It was more about
| differences which always existed. When I was young I was
| often dumped into large family gatherings which lasted days
| (birthdays of (grand)grandparents, funerals, weddings etc). I
| had to practice handling cousins etc who might had very
| different family backgrounds than me since very early age. We
| had to find things we had in common and accept our
| differences. We learned that differences are manageable. It's
| not common nowadays. Many people don't have relationships
| with relatives at all and kids don't meet another kids with
| different background until school. And even then distance is
| kept often because of overprotective parenting.
| paganel wrote:
| I see this exact thing right now to me and some (former?)
| friends, we're all in our early to mid-40s. And, yes, it does
| involve politics, and more generally how one sees the world,
| but I personally find it quite baffling nonetheless. It's like
| people really do feel the need to continue living in their
| intellectual bubble-balls, no dialectics involved, no
| contradiction, and hence no real (intellectual and not only)
| move forward.
|
| I can't and don't see an easy solution for it, to be honest.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >If I look my students (highschool and college level) now, they
| are extremely intolerant for differences compared to what I
| remember from my youth. One "I don't like it" problem is enough
| to dump any relationship. Why?
|
| We became much more polarized in those decades. That one "I
| don't like it" mentality went from "I think differently about
| this fiscal policy for solving this issue" to "I'm fine with
| federal agents terrorizing minorities" or "women are beneath
| me". These weren't the exact words, but these were some real
| life statements that more or less said this.
|
| Of course I don't want to assossiate with that kind of person
| (spoilers: I'm a minority). There are differences I can accept
| and work with, but there's so many irreconcilable differences
| said out loud.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| You're absolutely right! Nobody in the 60s or 70s thought
| that the police should terrorise minorities or that women
| were beneath them. These are entirely new problems that have
| only arisen since 2020 or so.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| They knew not to say the quiet part out loud back then.
| That decorum is gone now.
|
| Or in many cases (not mine since I don't use them), there
| wasn't the world's largest bathroom wall to go sound off
| on... Except you sign every message off with your name. The
| kind of stuff people post in their real name that I would
| take to my grave is insane.
| Simulacra wrote:
| I read an outstanding quote in a Brad Thor novel that I think
| speaks volumes about how to make friends:
|
| "Faith comes from trust, which comes from time, and experience"
|
| With the Internet, and social media, it can feel like we have
| friends when we really don't. But what social media etc. has
| robbed from us is that before, we had to spend time with people,
| we had experience with them, and over time they led to trust, and
| friendship. That's how people made friends before. Now we don't
| put that much effort into friendships because we think we already
| have friends because we see them on Facebook.
| baby wrote:
| Really good post! My own thoughts:
|
| - making new friends does take a massive amount of time, not just
| in finding friends but also in spending time with them until you
| can call them long-time friends
|
| - so you need to invest time in hanging out with people! Even
| when you don't know what to say to them or when it's awkward or
| when you're not sure if you like them much. We weren't picky when
| we were kids making friends, we just hung out a lot with whoever
| wanted to hang out
|
| - this also means make yourself available. Romantic partners, new
| jobs, as well as kids basically destroy your free time, but lots
| of it is self inflicted. Make sure you don't seclude yourself and
| prioritize hanging out with people
|
| - also, it's a number game, you should meet a lot of people if
| you want to eventually have a strong group of friends
|
| - one trick is to organize a house party or some gathering once a
| week, on the same day, and invite everyone you know, and ask them
| to invite more people as well
|
| - make sure you also spend time doing nothing with friends. Like
| watching tv and sitting on the couch. That's how you used to
| create friendships as a kid, you just "hang", you didn't "go to
| the restaurant and went home afterwards"
| majora2007 wrote:
| idk about a house party once a week, but I do like the idea of
| having my friends invite their other friends. As I age, it
| becomes harder to find new friends just by happenstance.
| Friends of Friends usually end up becoming friends after
| meeting them.
| dhbradshaw wrote:
| - making new friends does take a massive amount of time
|
| I think the solution to this is to enjoy the journey. There's not
| a line that someone needs to cross before you can enjoy spending
| time with them. Just reach out and learn and enjoy people from
| the beginning.
| Zealotux wrote:
| I live in Barcelona, and during last year's blackout I wandered
| through the city. As I passed by the Baix Guinardo gardens, I
| came across something that felt like a "A Sunday Afternoon on the
| Island of La Grande Jatte" brought to life: the park was full of
| families socialising the old way, children running everywhere,
| the whole place buzzing with chatter and energy.
|
| Later that day, walking home through darkened streets, I noticed
| small groups, maybe a dozen people at a time, gathered around
| certain spots. For some reason, a few closed shops still seemed
| to have working free Wi-Fi (backup generators, maybe), and people
| clustered there, drawn in like mosquitoes to light. Their faces
| glowed in the dark, lit only by their screens, and they stood in
| near-total silence. It's hard to describe the feeling, it was
| surreal. You had to be there.
|
| I'm no Luddite, but I went to sleep that night wondering how on
| earth we get ourselves out of this.
| sph wrote:
| Have you ever seen those videos filming London streets in the
| 1970s? They are absolutely packed with groups of two or three
| people, not going places, but just standing there, chatting, as
| if they have nowhere else to be. It is something most of us
| have never experienced in any form and the change has happened
| over long enough timescales that we are used to our streets of
| strangers just going about their lives, the external world just
| a physical inconvenience to traverse as quickly as possible,
| not the real world where one just exists.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| My perspective is very simple: our homes are simply a lot
| more comfortable than they used to be.
|
| We have better heating/air conditioning, endless
| television/video games/entertainment, large refrigerators,
| lower density, etc and so on.
|
| Back then, home covered a narrower set of needs - so the
| default option was to spend time elsewhere, even if it was
| just to escape the noise/heat/smells/smoke of home for a
| minute.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they
| used to be.
|
| Yes. And public spaces are significantly less comfortable
| (and more expensive) than they used to be
| badpun wrote:
| I have plenty of such scenes in my city still, but these
| people are usually either pensioners, or local unemployed
| drunks who have an entire day to fill. People with jobs don't
| hang outside, unless they're with their kids.
| acdha wrote:
| I think a lot of it comes back to cars: many people traded
| longer commutes for suburban houses, which has advantages but
| comes at the cost of not having much to do without driving
| somewhere and less free time around other people. This is
| especially bad for parents when they don't feel comfortable
| letting their kids walk / bike around the neighborhood since
| that means more time spent playing chauffeur.
| billfor wrote:
| That's because London was 92.6% white and they shared a
| common culture, which London doesn't have anymore.
| kace91 wrote:
| Yup, I'm a Spaniard and had a similar feeling. I'm pretty sure
| that, if the government had proposed an intentional weekly
| blackout, there would have been a large majority in favor.
|
| I'm currently trying to reduce internet usage by a simple rule:
| no feeds (try to avoid places where I could even see them).
|
| It's extremely difficult.
|
| YouTube receives you with a feed, every social network as well,
| even the online version of a newspaper is arguably a feed. It's
| usually not possible to use a service without having one in
| frequent sight. Even my weather app tries its best to offer a
| feed of weather related news, the photo gallery app shows one
| of memories....
| tkfoss wrote:
| In the past 3 years I got married and got a kid. Both mine and
| my wifes social situation went 180, and now we are one of those
| couples you saw in the park. The kids and kid problems become
| new shared interest, you meet bunch of people, with similar
| shared experience, and you end up connecting on other fronts as
| well. eg - I m in high rise, parking next to an interesting
| winter beater every day for 2 years, and now I know the guy
| because our wifes meet on the playground. Turns out he also
| likes 3d printers and CNCs and has many ideas :)
|
| But even before this, through wife and her hobbies (dance,
| pottery etc) I had chance to meet many people and their
| partners and through them their friends etc. Then it becomes a
| choice whether you will get up and go see others or pick your
| screen.
| dingaling wrote:
| You are very fortunate. When I took a career break to become
| daddy-day-care for our child I went to "Parents & Toddlers"
| groups and found them unwelcoming and suspicious.
|
| Going back to work was a relief, because I was able to
| actually talk to adults without feeling that they were
| judging my reasons for being there.
| everdrive wrote:
| >but I went to sleep that night wondering how on earth we get
| ourselves out of this.
|
| I'm sure HN will suggest another layer of technology will fix
| all of this.
| m463 wrote:
| Your story reminds me of working pre-pandemic, and going on an
| afternoon walk with a coworker. He was into pokemon go and he
| wanted to attend an event (raid?) before we walked. I followed
| him down the street where he stood at a certain deserted spot
| and waited. All of a sudden, people just started appearing,
| some from cars, some coming from between the bushes, some
| walking down the street.
|
| the raid started, they all silently stared at their phones, and
| at some point they all looked up, looked around and walked
| away.
|
| all mostly in complete silence.
|
| who knew this was a precursor to more of the same, maybe
| throughout society.
| pino83 wrote:
| One thing that I've learned from my friends in the last 10 years:
|
| You can either have deep friendships XOR children.
|
| All of them are either still without children, or are by no means
| valuable friends anymore.
|
| Sorry, but that's just how it is.
| MarkusQ wrote:
| Hang in there. As the kids get older, "XOR" can turn into
| "WITH".
| GJim wrote:
| Disappointing somebody has seen fit to "drive-by" downvote your
| post that simply describes your truthful personal observations.
|
| Presumably they don't want to engage in discussion, which is
| _precisely_ what this topic is about!
| pino83 wrote:
| Well, quite often I think this way but resist to say so. This
| time it's even more obvious, though: They all know that I'm
| right. Everybody knows. That's not the point why they
| downvote.
| alex_suzuki wrote:
| For me, kids have had a "filtering" effect. Where previously I
| had a lot of friends (including shallow ones), having less time
| and being less flexible in general compressed my circle of
| friends to just a few people with whom I share both a deeper
| connection and a mutual understanding that the pressures of
| life sometimes get between us, and that's ok. And as another
| commenter mentioned, kids do grow older...
| pino83 wrote:
| You might confirm or not. As far as I observe it, the "deeper
| connection" is virtually always with other parents. And this
| is exactly the connection. Without children, it's neither
| possible nor attractive to be one of these persons.
| alex_suzuki wrote:
| It's true for me, and probably for most parents, that
| connecting with other parents via the shared experience of
| haing kids is easy: there's always something to talk about.
| But I also find that for me, both parties having kids is
| simply not enough for it to click! I knew my close friends
| from before I had kids, the connection was already there.
|
| I agree that making _new_ friends across the "kids barrier"
| is hard. You just live in different worlds.
| organsnyder wrote:
| We've become really close friends with a couple of
| families on our block. It definitely helps that we all
| have kids the same age, but a big reason for this is that
| our kids entertain each other, freeing the adults (most
| of the time) to interact with each other.
|
| I also sing in a small choir that is as much a friend
| group as it is a music ensemble. Most of us have kids,
| but not everyone; while I can't speak for those in the
| group without kids, I think one reason it works so well
| is because none of us have parenting responsibilities
| while we're together as a choir (we joke that rehearsals
| are a great time for us to escape from our families).
| fnordlord wrote:
| If it helps, I've found hosting a pizza night to be a really
| easy way to have some good hang time with friends. I make the
| pizza and it's good enough to be free dinner for them. The kids
| get to participate by customizing their pies. We all catch up
| for an hour or two in the kitchen, watching me scramble and
| make a mess. If somebody brings over a bottle of wine, even
| better.
| pino83 wrote:
| Yes, I'm sure that works. It's just not my cup of tea.
| Instead of doing that, I could just watch TV. And I'm really
| not a TV enthusiast.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >Instead of doing that, I could just watch TV.
|
| That's not really a single vs. married divide there. That's
| just how you prioritize your energy in life.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Parents by necessity need to prioritize their kid. Hard to
| relate when you're single. So I understand why parents seek out
| other parents; they have a common talking point built in for an
| icebreaker.
|
| At the same time, that very much is cultural. We think we need
| to raise children alone, and that's very much not the case in
| many societies. Good friends (even single) would be part of the
| family and help out with looking after or playing with the
| kids. Basically an uncle/aunt.
| jujube3 wrote:
| Parents want to hang out with other parents.
| lp4v4n wrote:
| Society is getting materialistic and cynical to toxic levels as
| the standards of living and the perspective of future further
| deteriorate.
|
| People feel overworked, tired and out of money.
|
| This general malaise spills on almost every type of social
| interaction, including friendships unfortunately.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| I have thought alot about making friends and why it's so hard. I
| keep coming back to the same question.
|
| In myself I find I can't seem to muster the motivation to spend
| enough time with someone that it would take to form a friendship.
| I want to have friends, but I don't care to know any of these
| people. I just don't _like_ anyone that much. The question is, am
| I just inherently a cynical asshole? Or, has modern life done
| something to me that it has also done to everyone else?
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| > Or, has modern life done something to me that it has also
| done to everyone else?
|
| it's a mix of life moves and mismatched schedules, as well as
| some people simply being flaky. It's hard to make friends if
| you're always moving around for your job, and jobs are less
| stable than ever (be it willfully with job hops, or unwillfully
| with layoffs). So it happens a lot more.
|
| And yeah, I think "flake culture" makes it harder to form
| gatherings when you're still forming that friendship. Some
| people just have other stuff in life (be it in or out of their
| control), but they never bother communicating it. So with that
| radio silence, you can't do much.
| nephihaha wrote:
| Meet in person. Rule no. 1.
|
| Language can be a barrier, but not insurmountable.
|
| Also that lockdown destroyed many social connections and it is up
| to each and every one of us to take the initiative instead of
| expecting it to happen to us.
| ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote:
| When I was about 10 years old it dawned on me that "friendship"
| is a really unclear, mutual agreement, and if you consider
| someone your friend, they might not consider you theirs (or at
| the very least, not on the same level of "friendliness") and vice
| versa. What does it even mean to be or have a "friend"? It's such
| a silly thing, but it permanently changed the way I looked at
| social connections. I never had "friends" ever since and don't
| feel like I am missing out on anything.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| That is a low key point the author touched on but never really
| expanded upon.
|
| >It could be that I had my second kid in 2024 or that 2024 marked
| 5 years of working remotely.
|
| The kids vs. single divide is real, and I don't think it needs
| much more elaboration.
|
| Working remotely definitely has its costs, though. There's lots
| of discussions these days about 3rd places, and remote work more
| or less removes your "second place". We don't just drop by
| people's houses unannounced anymore, so that leaves zero places
| for friendhips to naturally form post school. It's definitely one
| thing I miss most about an in-office job.
|
| To coworking initiative is a nice way to get some "company", but
| I imagine most people will still ultimately be focusing on doing
| work. So it's not quite the 2nd nor 3rd place the author desires.
|
| As for me, it's pretty straightforward: I'm underemployed and am
| spending any down time applying to jobs. Not much time to hang
| out. I'm busy trying to survive first.
| seu wrote:
| I think there should be less "how to solve friendship" posts,
| which see our social interactions as "problems" to be solved, and
| more reflection about how this is a consequence of a market
| oriented, inequality driving system. If the problem is that
| friendships need time, we should demand less working time and
| more free time to establish friendships.
| momentary wrote:
| I'm surprised that this article that has so much of an AI smell
| gets such a positive reception.
|
| I thought HN didn't go in for AI slop? I suspect that this kind
| of thing has people feeling more alienated than ever, what with
| even the articles online lacking any level of human connection.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Here's what I do: Spend time at my local marker space. It's easy
| to bond with people when you have such similar interests. It's
| really amazing how exactly aligned I am with a set of the people
| there. Being in SF already biases people towards certain
| interests. But going beyond that to the inner circle of tech
| obsessed nerds, makers from all over the world that moved here
| with a purpose, gives me a form fitting community that probably
| only exists in a handful of locations on Earth. Play social
| deduction/deception games. I have a free social club of 100+
| people that meets at least once per week. We all practice lying
| to each other and reading each other. Yeah it's only a couple
| hours per week but it's highly focused on social muscles we often
| only exercise infrequently elsewhere. No social media. Pretty
| much no long distance friendships (outside of stints where I play
| a lot of video games with someone). I genuinely do not give a
| damn what's happening to people I haven't seen in years even if I
| could know everything by looking at their feed. If I want to
| catch up I'll make plans to have them visit me or I will visit
| them. There are people I do this for on a regular basis, but it's
| a short list. I do not comprehend the appeal of social media. All
| of my social brain is exercised on face to face interactions. I
| think the biggest factors here are living in a city (I was pretty
| isolated when I lived in the suburbs) and having enough free
| time.
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