[HN Gopher] Is it a pint?
___________________________________________________________________
Is it a pint?
Author : cainxinth
Score : 167 points
Date : 2026-03-23 16:13 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (isitapint.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (isitapint.com)
| jjgreen wrote:
| In Yorkshire a short pint will result in "Could you fit a whiskey
| in there?", "yes of course", "THEN FILL IT WITH BEER"
| calebelac wrote:
| I'm going to start using this approach. Cheers!
| bombcar wrote:
| In the EU I noticed lots of glasses had markings on the side - if
| it was full to the line, it was a pint (or liter or whatever).
|
| McDonalds cups have a line for ice.
| RGamma wrote:
| Measuring beer is serious business in Germany to the point the
| EU commission had to comment on a rule change that supposedly
| forbade the usage of steins for foaming drinks (it didn't, but
| Germany wanted to be extra strict):
| https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie
|
| https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...
| Symbiote wrote:
| At least in the UK it's a legal requirement to use marked
| glassware when serving beer, cider and wine. (Or to use a
| marked measuring cylinder and pour that into the drinkware,
| which is sometimes done for wine.)
|
| It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I
| haven't checked beyond Wikipedia:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| In true British fashion the requirements for draught beer and
| cider are in pints, while wine is sold in millilitres.
| g_lined wrote:
| Of course. You're not going to buy a pint of wine.
| luplex wrote:
| and crucially, foam has to be above the line.
|
| There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve
| beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not
| verify that the foam really starts above the line.
|
| As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is
| visible signage that informs customers about their right to
| pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the
| amount. Source (German):
| https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...
|
| In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat
| fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in
| 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its
| spiritual successor. German:
| https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...
| tveita wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line
|
| Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud
| report to your local consumer protection agency. A
| crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.
| bombcar wrote:
| The US is a different place; though I will say that in Europe
| everything seemed to be right _on_ the line, whereas in the
| US I 'd say that most pours were to the very brim (likely
| giving me _more_ than advertised).
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| They are serious about this in Germany. At the Christmas
| markets it's common to get a single Gluhwein mug that you keep
| and have filled with drinks as you visit. Even these little
| souvenir keepsakes have a fill line marked on them, no doubt
| policed by some very stern German standards keepers.
| jghn wrote:
| In the US at least it's pretty common to see bars using cheater
| pints. They look like 16 oz pint glasses but with a few tricks
| wind up only holding 14 oz
| nathancahill wrote:
| Indeed. And coffee bags have gone from 16oz to 12oz to 10oz and
| I saw my first 8oz bag recently (while keeping the same form
| factor).
| Waterluvian wrote:
| In Canada (and I'm sure elsewhere) there are surprise inspections
| where government inspectors show up at petrol stations and see if
| the pump actually gives you what it claims.
|
| I volunteer for the pub equivalent of this.
| 9rx wrote:
| You're in luck. Measurement Canada has the authority to inspect
| pints. Typically they only act on complaints, though.
|
| https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
| ryandrake wrote:
| I have a feeling that if the USA did random, surprise
| inspections on businesses to make sure what they were selling
| was actually as-advertised, the whole system would be exposed
| as fraud within a month.
| lucideer wrote:
| I don't know if other companies do this anywhere but if you
| live in Ireland. Diageo have roles for people to travel around
| the country doing precisely this.
| arkensaw wrote:
| ah yes, the guinness vans, I do often see them out and about
| bluGill wrote:
| In the US every gas pump I've seen (I have not check the
| majority of states, but still a good sample) has a sticker on
| it stating inspections and who runs the state department that
| inspects them. Usually it is a yearly inspection (at least
| according to the sticker, maybe they do it more often I don't
| know)
| Gormo wrote:
| Not just gas pumps, but any measuring device used to
| determine the price of a metered product. The scales at the
| register at supermarkets also have calibration stickers in my
| state.
| bluGill wrote:
| Now that you mention it, I've seen them at some grocery
| stores - but generally not in a place I'd be looking unlike
| gas pumps where is is right next to the price and so you
| won't miss it.
| bregma wrote:
| I don't want my beer to taste like gasoline though.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Both may contain ethanol.
| skeptrune wrote:
| Most useful website I've been on in a hot minute
| badgersnake wrote:
| We've had laws requiring landlords to serve standardised pints
| the UK since 1698. This is not a new problem.
| xnorswap wrote:
| 1985 is the current one:
| https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/72/contents
|
| It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size
| their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was
| common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either
| size but not in the same pub.
|
| ( edit: Better link: https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-
| packaging-the-law/sp... )
| maxbaines wrote:
| Great minds...
| graemep wrote:
| I did not know about the 35ml is OK too but not both on the
| same premises rule.
| tialaramex wrote:
| The way they got to the 25/ 35 split involves even more
| craziness. In England the law said spirits are always
| measured in sixths of a gill. This entire unit is obsolete,
| but 1/6 is a tiny bit less than 25ml. Fine.
|
| However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill
| (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter
| of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a
| "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very
| angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish
| or Irish establishment which would have been used to these
| larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill
| (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk
| people.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was
| to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more
| profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own
| in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off
| you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few
| years.
| maxbaines wrote:
| Agree this is a fact - we mark our glasses because of it.
| https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/pr...
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| I like the CAMRA ones which have the pint line below the rim of
| the glass. Because technically the head doesn't count as part
| of the pint and there's a lot of back-and-forth about what the
| legally acceptable amount of head really is (CAMRA say 0%, pub
| associations serve 5%, pubs themselves serve whatever they
| think you'll pay for).
| alexfoo wrote:
| > CAMRA say 0%, pub associations serve 5%
|
| That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.
|
| A real ale that CAMRA would be happy with rarely has any head
| at all whereas a generic lager may need a patient pour to
| keep it to just 5% head.
|
| Anyone asking for a Guinness with no head doesn't understand
| the drink they've ordered.
| gib444 wrote:
| And they say England becoming low-trust is a recent change !
| badgersnake wrote:
| Found the original too:
|
| https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Will3/11/15/enacted
| xnorswap wrote:
| I got poured a pint by a newbie behind the bar at a hotel
| recently and she looked embarrassed as it was about 40% head, but
| to her credit she went to fetch the shift supervisor before I
| said anything.
|
| He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining
| head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met
| by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be
| charging them for just for the half" etc.
|
| There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you
| short a pint too much.
| post-it wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand, why didn't she just top it up?
| dismalaf wrote:
| Right? Just top it up, let some of the foam cascade over the
| side... Foam always forms in the keg if it sits for too long
| so you need to let some of it out anyway.
| xnorswap wrote:
| Who knows, she obviously lacked experience, I guess she just
| panicked or worried it might be an issue with the barrel
| rather than her pour?
| vojtapol wrote:
| Yes. Americans/Canadians famously can't pour beer properly. If
| you are pouring a pilsner or really any lager, a head of at
| least 2 inches is actually correct and absolutely desirable.
| The way it's poured in Canada (no head) is borderline
| undrinkable to me.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI
| masfuerte wrote:
| If an establishment wants to serve drinks with a head they
| should use glasses with a mark on the side indicating the
| measure, rather than glasses which need to be brim full.
| Using the latter style of glass and including a head is just
| ripping off the customer.
| consp wrote:
| We call that kind of beer without any head "dead".
| Measurement here is about two fingers width, and if you do it
| the first time and screw up it is two fingers in length
| (second part is of course tounge-in-cheek).
| skipants wrote:
| As a Canadian: hard agree. Beer without head is gross.
| mb7733 wrote:
| Preferences vary on both sides of the Atlantic. Another
| comment on this post complains that Americans pour beer wrong
| because they _do_ pour with a head.
|
| > Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the
| customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it
| the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and
| asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just
| insulted George Washington
| secondcoming wrote:
| If I get a beer with no head I'm assuming the glass was dirty
| bregma wrote:
| How do you measure the head through the red solo bubba cup?
|
| Really, no self-respecting Canadian would drink beer out of
| anything except directly out of the bottle, can, or keg.
| mattmanser wrote:
| You should try the Dutch!
|
| They think a big head means a good lager and every pint you
| get is 80% head.
| anfractuosity wrote:
| Maybe it was a Czech Mliko pour ;) The faucets they use are
| pretty cool (https://www.lukrfaucets.com/en/)
| wodenokoto wrote:
| > 79.3% of pours were short (under 100% of claimed volume)
|
| That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked
| in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it
| write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and
| this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is
| without units.
|
| Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the
| brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer
| than they expect.
|
| [1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there
| is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.
| ch_123 wrote:
| In the UK and Ireland, a pint is 20 oz. (equivalent to just over
| 19 US ounces), so I always feel cheated by 16 oz. "pint" glasses
| in the US.
| dghf wrote:
| This is why I get agitated when Americans claim to use imperial
| units. If they did, their pints would be the correct size.
| cjs_ac wrote:
| Americans don't claim to use imperial weights and measures;
| they use customary weights and measures, which were also used
| in the UK prior to the creation of imperial units with the
| Weights and Measures Act 1824.
| kube-system wrote:
| There are many people in America who do not know the
| difference, the mistake is fairly common.
| bee_rider wrote:
| At this point they are just American units, right? Since
| the UK has upgraded already.
| ZeWaka wrote:
| That's why we call it the US Customary System.
| ascorbic wrote:
| Beer and cider are the only drinks that are legally not
| sold by metric volume in the UK. They have to be served
| by the pint, 2/3, 1/2 or 1/3. Every other drink has to
| use metric.
| dghf wrote:
| But that just means the quantity has to be expressed in
| metric units, possibly in addition to imperial, correct?
| E.g. I currently have a carton of milk in my fridge
| that's labelled "2272ml 4 pints".
| cjs_ac wrote:
| The origin of US Customary units is British, even if the
| US, Liberia and Myanmar are the last countries still
| using it. The UK has almost entirely adopted metric
| (yards and miles are still used for measuring distances
| on roads and pints are still used for milk and beer, and
| the last government made the eccentric decision to permit
| pints for wine, which no producer used because they
| couldn't get the bottles), but these systems of units
| have identities beyond whether or not they're in use
| anywhere.
|
| EDIT/CORRECTION: Milk is sold in multiples of 568 mL, so
| while the quantities are pints, the measurement is
| metric.
| rafram wrote:
| Not really. The UK uses imperial units for most of the
| things you use units for in daily life (roads, cooking,
| drink sizes, body weight, utilities, land area...), even
| though they theoretically converted to metric. Canada is
| similar.
| mrwh wrote:
| _Human_ body weight. I grew up measuring everything in
| kilos apart from people, which has I guess what amounts
| to its own wholly idiosyncratic scale, the stone, that no
| one I've since met outside of the UK has heard of.
| alnwlsn wrote:
| The (incorrect) claim is indeed made in every single metric
| vs "imperial" comments section I've come across.
| dghf wrote:
| Many Americans do claim to use imperial units. They're
| wrong, but they do claim it.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| surely if that was the claim George Washington would never
| have had his dream
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk
| loeg wrote:
| It's not completely uncommon to be offered 16 oz or 20 oz as
| options in the US. But I see it more at "fast casual"
| restaurants than bars or more upscale restaurants.
| cbm-vic-20 wrote:
| And of course, what an "ounce" means may vary. According to
| Wikipedia "An imperial fluid ounce is defined in British law
| as exactly 28.4130625 millilitres, while a US customary fluid
| ounce is exactly 29.5735295625 mL, and a US food labelling
| fluid ounce is 30 mL."
| vlod wrote:
| Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the
| customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it
| the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and
| asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just
| insulted George Washington.
| mcjiggerlog wrote:
| Well, depending on the type of beer, that's intentional. It's
| not always the faux-pas that it would be to do this when
| serving cask ale in the UK.
| bardak wrote:
| But usually when that is the case they will use glassware
| that has a 20oz line on the glass with room for the head.
| consp wrote:
| A pint in the Netherlands usually is 500ml. In very rare cases,
| but only in real pubs (not mass market "Irish" pubs) you get an
| actual pint. So you are cheated out of about ~68ml in that
| case. Vs the US you get a few ml more.
| ch_123 wrote:
| A standard US pint is about 473ml so a US pint is ~95ml less
| than an imperial pint.
| saalweachter wrote:
| In the 19th century, at the same time they went stone-mad
| (and redefined the hundredweight as 8 stone or 112lb), the
| British redefined the pint as 20 oz.
|
| After this point, there was no where the whole world round
| where a pint was a pound.
|
| (The US standardized on the wine gallon, so a US pint is
| and was 1.04 lbs.)
| thrance wrote:
| Same thing here in France. Except I've never seen any "real"
| pints here, it's _always_ 50cl.
| amiga386 wrote:
| As far as I knew, Netherlands pubs typically sold:
|
| - 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)
|
| - 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje"
| (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer
| measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde
| glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"
|
| They also sell standard bottled beer in 300ml and standard
| cans in 330ml: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standaardglas
|
| I was not aware that 500ml was usual for the Netherlands. It
| is usual in, say, Germany, where they also sell the 1 litre
| _Mass_
| ahartmetz wrote:
| The Mass is only a thing in Bavaria and strongly Bavarian-
| themed places, and almost nonexistent for bottles or cans
| anywhere in Germany. Faxe (which is Danish) sells one liter
| cans and some Czech brands sell or used to sell 1.5 liter
| plastic bottles - that's about it. The next common size is
| 5 liter mini kegs.
| jcul wrote:
| Do they actually call it a pint or just a half litre / large
| beer?
|
| That's seems to be the norm in a lot of mainland Europe.
| benhurmarcel wrote:
| In France it's 500mL and it's actually called a pint
| eduction wrote:
| Your pubs kindly return the favor when we order whiskey. As
| Hunter S Thompson is reported to have quipped in a bar your
| side of the Atlantic: "What is this, a sample?"
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| That's fair, can't argue with that one.
|
| Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve
| its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British
| pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum
| of 54%!
|
| Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK,
| but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5
| or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.
| dfawcus wrote:
| The volume of UK and US fluid ounces being different also
| doesn't help.
|
| The UK pint is 568ml, apparently a US pint is 473 ml.
| lbourdages wrote:
| It is the same in Canada [1] yet I frequently see beer sold in
| "US pints" over here. I assume they do it so they can advertise
| cheaper prices (the amount being smaller). Some places will
| write the glass size in ounces, but some won't.
|
| It is one of my pet peeves for sure.
|
| [1]: https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-
| canada/en/buyin...
| neuronflux wrote:
| Also Canadian. I don't often see "pint" on the menu, usually
| something like "16oz." Evidently restaurateurs and bar owners
| are wise to the law. Though I am pleased when I see "20oz" on
| the menu!
|
| I kind of understand the logic by not serving 20oz and saying
| "pint". Customers might avoid a place because their "pints
| are more expensive", when in reality that place is also
| serving them 4oz of extra beer. A bit like the classic 1/3 lb
| cheeseburger being "smaller"[1].
|
| Annoyingly, I do find that servers will often refer to their
| larger size beer as "pint" regardless of whatever the menu
| says.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-
| pound_burger#Marketing_f...
| michael1999 wrote:
| I have a buddy who used to call Weights and Measures on bars
| that passed off US customary pints as "pints". It is illegal,
| but enforced largely by complaint.
| lucideer wrote:
| I'm from Ireland, where filling beers precisely up to the brim is
| practically a religion, & many barmen will even take the glass
| back & top it up if they see the head diminishing too quickly in
| the space of time it takes you to pick the freshly poured pint
| up.
|
| One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is
| seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like
| Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this
| is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass
| capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.
| petesergeant wrote:
| The only sensible approach here is pint-to-line glasses. I
| don't want my glass filled to the very top where I'll spill it,
| I want it filled to the pint line. Sadly in the UK up to 5% of
| the pint is allowed to be foam, but I'd expect any sensible
| barman in the UK to top me up to the pint line if I asked, and
| be apologetic about it.
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| Kind of.
|
| Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means
| you're getting less than a pint of actual beer.
|
| This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure
| perhaps not.
| lucideer wrote:
| > _the Guinness head means you 're getting less than a pint
| of actual beer_
|
| I hate to be pedantic but pint being volumetric, you're still
| getting a pint, independent of density. Also - a nitrogen
| head doesn't dissipate, so you never get a gap.
|
| I'm now curious though whether a nitrogen head is less dense
| than a CO2 head...
| ahartmetz wrote:
| It feels much denser, and I think it does dissipate... but
| slowly.
| lucideer wrote:
| I'm sure it dissipates eventually but I've worked at
| weddings collecting pints that were forgotten about
| untouched - it really is a very very slow dissipation.
| dismalaf wrote:
| In Czech Republic they usually pour 3 fingers of head. But the
| measure line is also part way down the glass, the foam all
| above the line...
| ahartmetz wrote:
| Same in Germany. In Belgium, the glasses don't have a line
| and they don't fill them to the brim neither! The only thing
| that prevents pubs from cheating you out of some of your beer
| is their reputation. And to be honest, I sometimes had doubts
| about getting all that I paid for.
| ljm wrote:
| You could get a pint of nothing but head as well, if you
| wanted.
|
| In Spain they try to create the head by dumping the beer in
| the glass, Guinness style, and letting it excessively foam
| up. So it's half flat and half full.
| dismalaf wrote:
| > You could get a pint of nothing but head as well, if you
| wanted.
|
| True but a mliko pour is a special request and usually
| cheaper.
| ahofmann wrote:
| I remember watching the cornetto trilogy (
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto ) and
| always wondering why on earth they fill up the glasses up to
| the brim. It is uncomfortable to transport this way and not
| spill beer.
| OJFord wrote:
| First sip's at the bar; then you can
| thih9 wrote:
| Here are your beers lads, I didn't spill anything! They
| taste good too.
| fanf2 wrote:
| When CAMRA was new in the early 1970s, they started a
| campaign for oversize glasses holding a pint to the line
| instead of a pint to the rim, so that there would be space
| for a pint of liquid and a head in the glass. The big
| breweries hated this idea and mounted a reactionary campaign
| arguing things like it would be too expensive to replace all
| the glasses, or serve customers the full measure they had
| paid for. (My father was a new recruit at Guinness and sadly
| one of his early tasks was the pint-to-brim campaign.)
| JetSetIlly wrote:
| I no longer drink in pubs but in my neck of the woods, the
| pubs that specialised in cask ale often had lined glasses.
|
| The problem was that many people insisted on the glass
| being filled to the brim, because they felt they were being
| short changed. So it solved one problem but created
| another.
| pmh wrote:
| > not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is
| fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top
|
| I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs
| bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in
| Belgium and you want the head from the latter.
|
| That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for
| aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the
| head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.
| lucideer wrote:
| It could well have emerged as a cultural norm from the
| prevalence of heads, but I've seen it often for very moderate
| heads, with a gap left above the foam.
|
| > _not cheating the customer out of volume_
|
| I don't think it's cheating if its the norm. One would expect
| prices to be set appropriately for the average volume served
| (i.e. a full glass would be a bonus rather than the gap being
| a loss).
|
| I do just find it odd, coming myself from the opposite
| culturally.
| lokar wrote:
| I have a couple glasses of that style (la chouffe), they
| have a mark for 33cl, which I assume is a full pour
| amonon wrote:
| My understanding is Belgian beer culture considers the aroma to
| be an important part of the experience. But I've never been,
| that's all through osmosis.
| dkarl wrote:
| This is exactly it. That's why the glasses have the same
| basic form (stem, bowl, and tapered rim) as wine glasses and
| snifters. The liquid sits in the bowl, and the aroma is
| captured in the empty space between the liquid and the rim.
| jccooper wrote:
| Belgian glasses, like wine glasses, leave room for head and
| aromatics.
|
| Belgium is also fanatical about matching the glass with the
| beer, and Europe has the very sensible pour line on glasses, so
| it is designed for a certain fill and filled to the design.
|
| It's designed for experience, not volume.
| calebelac wrote:
| Thanks for sharing! Glad to see there's some momentum behind this
| libatious tragedy
| TheGRS wrote:
| I'll happily volunteer for this. I may have found my new purpose
| in life!
| BashiBazouk wrote:
| Reminds me of backpacking up and down the east coast of
| Australia. I learned that Fosters is only northern New South
| Wales for beer. Every place had their own preferred beer, but
| maddeningly they all had their own glass. A tenner, a schooner.
| Each a slightly different size. I made friends with a guy in
| Hobart that was staying in the hostel as he was doing research
| there, I think he was a biologist. He took me to his favorite pub
| as they served imperial pints. I think who ever is behind this
| site needs to do some serious research in Australia as they
| could, at least, double the "know your glass" section...
| mcbain wrote:
| You might enjoy the matrix of regional sizes and names on
| Wikipedia:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Beer_glasses
|
| No, us locals don't know them all either!
| hug wrote:
| As someone heavily involved in the hospitality (read: beer)
| area, this doesn't really line up with reality in Australia:
| there's only one state (South Australia) that doesn't agree on
| the major standard sizes: Pints are 470ml, schooners are 425ml,
| a half pint is 285ml, and a pony is 140ml.
|
| There's colloquialisms for a half: pot, or middy, mostly.
| Hobart will call a half pint a ten, because it's 10oz, but they
| also know what you're talking about when you ask for a pot or a
| half pint.
|
| Then there's South Australia, which will serve you a pint at
| 425ml, a schooner at 285ml, no one there outside of specialty
| craft beer bars have any idea what a half pint is, and if you
| want a proper pint you need to ask for an imperial pint. I have
| never seen an 'imperial pint' advertised in Hobart - it's just
| called a pint there.
|
| Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty
| much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.
| amonon wrote:
| Look, I get it. Beer is expensive, these days. Always has been.
| But I feel like these movements miss the forest for trees.
|
| If we mandate beer volume then places that are "shorting" you
| will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that
| would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes
| feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there's
| solution is to take your business elsewhere.
|
| Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a
| pint for me, and it's up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part
| of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I
| wanted to drink something with no foam I'd drink a soda. And in
| my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that's where
| these arguments lead.
| roxolotl wrote:
| The solution is in other comments. In the EU glasses are etched
| with a fill line. Not filled to the mark? You complain.
| amonon wrote:
| That seems very reasonable to me.
| graemep wrote:
| > No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for,
| but there's solution is to take your business elsewhere.
|
| People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge,
| especially as you will be comparing across visits to different
| places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but
| without regulation, how do you _know_ that you got less than
| you paid for unless you 're going to carry around a measuring
| glass yourself?
|
| If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when
| they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy
| -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to
| save money, ask for a smaller glass.
| amonon wrote:
| I guess I feel the same way about that as I do about a steak.
| How do I know that the steak is the 16oz I ordered?
| Ultimately the most important part is if I found the
| experience satisfying enough to return, not whether the steak
| was within .5oz of its stated measurement.
| goosejuice wrote:
| There's a distinct difference between food retail and food
| service. This kind of regulation will harm the later, it does
| not belong. Are we going to weigh every pizza, every
| omelette, every side of fries too? We don't need to sterilize
| every single part of our food culture.
|
| Anyone who has spent even a short amount of time in the food
| service business will be familiar with shrink. The average
| bar is probably seeing more than 15% shrinkage. The short
| pours are probably not offsetting that loss. Margins are
| thin.
|
| Solutions for the neurotic drinker this website appeals to: -
| order a can or bottle - buy retail and stay home - go to a
| self pour joint and pay by volume. Bonus: you don't have to
| talk to anyone.
|
| Otherwise put away the scale and talk to the bartender.
| Chances are you come away with plenty of free beer. Most
| small taprooms will help you find a beer you like by giving
| you free beer. If you're obsessing over getting what you paid
| for in food service, you're missing out on the true value of
| that industry.
|
| Let's not harass our bartenders, a hell of a tough job, with
| scales. I spent years behind the case of a cut to order
| cheese shop. There's a time and place for scales. This is not
| it.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| Bars are dying and are on thin margins so they have to do
| short pours, but if I just talk to a bartender, he'll give
| me plenty of free beer?
| goosejuice wrote:
| Yes, generally food service operates on thin margins. A
| neighborhood brewery probably won't be profitable for the
| first few years, then if successful might stabilize
| around 15% net* profit margin.
|
| If you go to a beer bar or a tap room, a large part of
| the role of a bartender is helping you find beer that you
| like. Successful bars and bartenders thrive from repeat
| customers. Community is important. This is very obvious
| if you actually sit down at bars and talk to the people
| behind them.
| Spivak wrote:
| I think your expected outcome is actually the desired one, to
| kill shrinkflation in favor of actual price increases. When the
| measures are all the same you can compare apples to apples
| across different businesses.
| d--b wrote:
| As infuriating as it may be, it's a good occasion to learn to let
| go.
|
| Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass,
| so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in
| the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway,
| change bar.
|
| You're there to chill. Just chill.
| goosejuice wrote:
| I'm sure the same individuals will calculate tip to the cent as
| well.
|
| As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get
| what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this
| industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If
| you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you
| insist on consistency then buy macro.
| twodave wrote:
| Now this is what the Internet is really supposed to be about.
| oldandboring wrote:
| I enjoyed reading this site and appreciate the passion and the
| effort.
|
| The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's
| costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of
| cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either
| selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling
| cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most
| bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices,
| because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All
| caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or
| too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason"
| it's the lesser of two evils.
|
| This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of
| 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost
| per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They
| don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word
| "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures
| again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and
| menus.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Is it called a shaker pint for association with the famously
| restrained Shakers?
| oldandboring wrote:
| According to my half-assed internet research, it's because it
| was designed to be used when shaking cocktails.
| Forgeties79 wrote:
| It's such a small thing but when a brewery or restaurant
| featuring beers writes "pint" as an option and gives me a typical
| US beer glass (shaker I believe) it annoys the hell out of me.
| Don't _explicitly_ write "pint" if it isn't at least north of
| 15oz. Definitely don't if the glass literally can't hold a pint.
| goosejuice wrote:
| Wait until they discover cocktails.
|
| Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price
| for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better
| uses of your time, like enjoying yourself.
|
| If you're not familiar with the mess that was nips:
| https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-...
| chaboud wrote:
| I've joked that the 16oz US pint was a long-play metric-system
| scheme to drive adoption of 500ml (~16.9oz) as a measure, a
| Pavlovian mechanic to trick beer-drinking Americans that the
| metric system is actually better because it results in more beer.
| The joke's on them. We're all about 12oz cans! 33cl? pfft...
|
| Germans have it nailed down with the Kolsch Stange, a 200ml glass
| that so readily disappears that it stays cold and you just get
| another from the Kranz.
| wolfi1 wrote:
| no one drinks it that way, except for those who drive. and
| believe me, for half a litre in half an hour one yields an
| acceptable beer temperature
| zabzonk wrote:
| I used to work in the Netherlands (i'm from the UK) and I could
| never understand how the Dutch put up with so much froth on their
| beer, even really enjoying being ripped off by it.
| froh wrote:
| there is a calibration marker on the glass and the liquid has
| to be filled up to that line, the froth on top is extra. so on
| the continent we get more, not less. so from where we stand it
| looks rather like the islanders are ripped off ;-)
|
| cheers
| zabzonk wrote:
| I'm not denying this, but I do remember a jug of beer being
| ordered and me being asked to pour it into several glasses
| without noticeable markings, and me trying to end up with
| about a 1/4 inch of head as I would in the UK and my Dutch
| friends yelling "more head" or something even less than
| polite.
|
| Mostly in the NL I drink bottled beer. And I'm a Yorkshire
| man, at least by birth.
| hencq wrote:
| Yeah, in the Netherlands 2 finger widths is the norm. But
| if it's more than that, people will get upset that you're
| pouring them milk.
| zabzonk wrote:
| I really liked working in the NL, but their food and
| drink I could not get used to. I did a bit of consultancy
| at KLM, and what was offered for lunch in the cafeteria
| turned my stomach - artificial meat, artificial bread. I
| complained about this to one of the KLM staffers I was
| working with - "We know, We know, and of course the
| bosses never eat here"
|
| Also, the Dutch idea of Chinese food is very strange
| (basically some sort of Indonesian thing - and I like
| Indonesian, but not that).
|
| Anyway you in no way requested a critique of Dutch
| cuisine, but I'm glad I got it off my chest. So,
| apologies.
| eternauta3k wrote:
| One thought I keep coming back to is the immense consequences of
| how our units of length, weight and volume were defined. Products
| are often sold with round numbers (1 liter, 0.5 liter, 1 kg,
| etc). If you could go back in time and fiddle with e.g. the
| definition of a pint, you'd see that reducing its volume would
| lead to people drinking less, until it's so small that people
| just order two pints.
| metalman wrote:
| I had a mk1 diesel rabbit, which when asked about the mileage, I
| would reply that is got 15 miles to the pint, though further into
| my youth people still refered to a "point of rum", as a measure
| distinct from all others, but of course bieng Canadian, beer
| comes in quarts.
| hrmtst93837 wrote:
| "You poured yourself a mega pint of red wine, correct?"
|
| "A mega pint?"
| cesaref wrote:
| On the subject of the weights and measures to check that a pint
| is a pint, I remember the father of a friend of mine at
| university who was responsible for the weights and measures for
| Staffordshire. I think he was the undersheriff or something like
| that, and that the official pint was part of the collection.
|
| This would have been in the late 80s - i've no idea if it was
| still in use, but i've a feeling that the law hadn't necessarily
| moved on, so I guess the official measure could have been
| required if challenged in court.
| stego-tech wrote:
| This is the sort of goodness the internet was made for. I'm no
| beer drinker myself, but I'm already sharing it with those in my
| circles who do.
|
| Also a great way to teach folks on how to hold others honest and
| accountable, a skill sorely underdeveloped at present. Start with
| the pours, and push upward from there.
| scoofy wrote:
| I discovered long ago that you might as well order a can in the
| states because you'll pay less and get effectively the same
| amount of beer.
| tristor wrote:
| Glad to see I'm not the only person that this bothers. I've been
| to more than 75 countries, to 43 US states, more than 2500
| breweries, and I have drank more than 10k unique beers. Many
| beers styles should be correctly served in different glass shapes
| than a standard pint glass, but short pours are endemic,
| especially in the United States and in Canada. I always
| appreciate when I get a pint at a bar and see that they're using
| actual imperial nonic glasses with a pour line at 16oz/568ml.
| joombaga wrote:
| I'm having trouble understanding these 2 claims from the summary:
|
| > 1 in 2 pints delivered less than 14.4 oz (below 90%)
|
| > 37.9% were significantly short (under 90% of claimed volume)
|
| Aren't those the same claim with different percentages? 1 in 2 is
| 50%, and 50% is less than 37.9%
| justonceokay wrote:
| Sounds like a typo you are overanalyzing. I bet the second
| number was supposed to be 80%.
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