[HN Gopher] Tin Can, a 'landline' for kids
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Tin Can, a 'landline' for kids
        
       Author : tejohnso
       Score  : 297 points
       Date   : 2026-03-20 14:02 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.businessinsider.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.businessinsider.com)
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | This is the ultimate "parents think it's great, kids will think
       | it's lame" product. I mean, I like it. And just the name conjures
       | images of GenXers yelling at clouds on TikTok about how they used
       | to use tin cans or Solo cups connected with string to talk to
       | their friends, so it's clear who they're targeting with the
       | marketing. But if I were 11-13yo and I got this when all my
       | friends got an iPhone? I'd be furious.
       | 
       | But I dunno. Kids being what they are, seem to be developing
       | curiosity about "retro tech". So maybe there's some sort of
       | whiplash effect occurring among them.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | This is for kids who don't yet have a smart phone, not as a
         | smart phone replacement for kids who already had smartphones. I
         | made something similar for my kids(basically, a phone with
         | buttons that can call a fixed set of people), and my kids love
         | it, and use it multiple times per day.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | If the kid doesn't have a smartphone, and looks around and
           | sees kids who do have one, they're gonna be envious and
           | pissed when their parents tell them they can't have one. I
           | know because it's analogous to what I felt when I was still
           | slumming it with my TI-99/4A when every other kid had a NES
           | back in the late 80s.
        
             | ares623 wrote:
             | That sentiment has been changing. Kids themselves are
             | seeing social media for what it really is.
        
             | loloquwowndueo wrote:
             | Your kid is envious about their friends who smoke all the
             | time. Would you buy your kid some cigarettes just so they
             | can be non-envious?
        
             | wisemang wrote:
             | Pfft those suckers didn't have Parsec or Car Wars or Ms.
             | Pac Man plus the hours spent typing TI-BASIC from a
             | magazine was less frustrating than trying to get the jumps
             | right on Super Mario Bros level 8-2. And I'm sure
             | Demolition Division and Meteor Multiplication are why I
             | ended up with a math degree.
             | 
             | For real though I spent so much time pining for Mario 3
             | before my parents finally did give in. But I feel like
             | there was something good about the diversity, like when I
             | could play Lode Runner on my buddy's C64 (actually a 128...
             | GO 64)
        
           | vscode-rest wrote:
           | Probably the best thing is a CB radio. Let them talk to any
           | other kids in town but no chance of weirdness.
        
             | wolrah wrote:
             | > Probably the best thing is a CB radio. Let them talk to
             | any other kids in town but no chance of weirdness.
             | 
             | No chance of weirdness? On CB? Have you used a CB?!?
             | 
             | I had a CB in my car for a while and the majority of the
             | talk I ever heard on it outside of traffic updates and cop
             | reports on major interstate highways was weird shit.
        
               | vscode-rest wrote:
               | Perhaps. But weirdness in a public space is superior to
               | weirdness in DMs.
        
         | Bender wrote:
         | Even if they play with it for 5 minutes it's a fun little
         | science lesson if the parents bother to explain what is
         | happening.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | $100 is a lot for 5 minutes of fun.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | I read it as they were talking about the idea of having
             | kids still go play with actual tin cans and a string in
             | this day and age rather than it be something only old
             | people could have done.
        
             | Bender wrote:
             | I just meant if they used an actual tin can and string.
             | This is just a wired intercom. There are much cheaper ones
             | on Amazon, several options.
        
           | apparent wrote:
           | Backordered until December, apparently.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | Two use cases:
         | 
         | 1. Allowing the kids to call parents _and no one else_ ,
         | without all the extra baggage that comes with a smartphone.
         | 
         | 2. Multiple families getting together and deciding this is how
         | their kids will communicate with each other (i.e. all agreeing
         | not to get smartphones for their kids).
         | 
         | > But if I were 11-13yo and I got this when all my friends got
         | an iPhone? I'd be furious.
         | 
         | If you've decided they're not getting a smartphone at that age,
         | they'll be furious regardless. They _may_ opt for this as an
         | alternative. Up to the kids.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | These are the two uses cases we use it for: call parents,
           | call grandparents, call friends. We bought units for their
           | friends. No smartphones.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | Yeah, I also pause when I read articles like this. The parent
         | in this story is trying to go "full 90s", like that was when
         | kids were raised the best... which just happens to be the time
         | when they were kids. Except, when I was a kid in the 90s, the
         | parents at that time thought the 90s things were horrible and
         | longed for the best time to raise kids... which of course was
         | when they were children.
        
           | casey2 wrote:
           | The entire point of parenthood is to validate your
           | narcissism, you can't talk reason into parents they can only
           | be socially programmed.
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | I am a dad of two kids, I am doing my best to use reason.
        
         | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
         | If my 11 to 13 year old got _furious_ they'd swiftly find
         | themselves at an agricultural boarding school in the regions.
         | 
         | This being Australia, likely a particular remote boarding
         | school in a particular hot part of the county.
         | 
         | Come back when you've learned how to be reasonable sort of
         | person.
        
       | Daneel_ wrote:
       | https://archive.is/2025.09.26-193418/https://www.businessins...
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Discussion (197 points, 8 months ago, 132 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44587018
        
         | TMWNN wrote:
         | Thanks for linking to it. Folks, before you rush to offer your
         | genius ACKSHUALLY ideas about how Google Voice will let you do
         | "the same thing as Tin Can for free", please, please, think
         | about what GV does and, more importantly, does _not_ (Hint:
         | Whitelist).
        
           | ale42 wrote:
           | Just put a Google Voice line behind a FreePBX or Asterisk and
           | you get all the call filtering you want. You can even make
           | your internal numbers or whatever.
           | 
           | I first found the Tin Can cool, but now seeing their privacy
           | policy, it's definitely nothing for me. I'd just use a normal
           | VoIP cordless phone (e.g. Gigaset makes various models), or
           | even a normal corded phone with a VoIP ATA. Some of them
           | might even have integrated whitelisting, but I didn't check.
        
           | deltoidmaximus wrote:
           | Can you even attach a POTS or POTS like device to Google
           | Voice anymore? I was looking into this last month and it
           | seemed like they had removed that feature and the devices
           | people were using (they had stopped selling them some years
           | ago) to do it stopped working recently.
           | 
           | I have an Ooma phone now and I just plugged my existing
           | phones into the Ooma box which then works the same as an old
           | landline for the most part.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | > Alarmingly, some Gen Zers don't say "hello" when they answer a
       | phone call; they expect the caller to just start talking.
       | 
       | I'm an older Gen-X and I've stopped doing this unless I recognize
       | the caller. I'm not going to give a scammer anything to build a
       | voice print on. I also use the stock greeting for voicemail
       | instead of a personal one.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | Yes, people think this behaviour came out of nowhere. It's
         | because if you are younger, phone calls are not the default
         | (only two friends ever call me) and overwhelmingly are scammers
         | or salespeople.
        
         | kermitime wrote:
         | also X, also using generic vm, but thinking of switching to
         | recording of fax machine max volume
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | Also most spam calls seem to just hang up when a call connects
         | to silence.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | I had two silent, barring some office appliance noises,
           | voicemails just today.
           | 
           | The number was on a spam list, but somehow managed to leave a
           | "message".
           | 
           | The most surprising thing is that it was obviously a person
           | calling and not a bot, as I was hearing the rustle of
           | something (mouse?) being moved over a desk.
        
         | senectus1 wrote:
         | I've been actively trying to think of a better way to answer
         | the phone without sounding rude. but without giving up my name
         | or mentally accepting whoever is on the other side (like hello
         | tends to do)
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | I normally don't answer calls I don't recognize the number
           | to, but if I might be expecting a call and have an inkling it
           | might even possibly be spam, I just answer with a short 'ya?'
           | 
           | Slightly rude, but saying nothing at all is just bizarre to
           | me.
           | 
           | Edit to add: One thing I've done for the last decade or so is
           | use a number from an area code I don't live in. Most of my
           | spam calls come from the same area code, so if I see that I
           | know it's spam or a wrong number.
        
           | philsnow wrote:
           | Answer it as if somebody had knocked on your front door: "who
           | is it?"
        
           | ornornor wrote:
           | > mentally accepting whoever is on the other side (like hello
           | tends to do)
           | 
           | I don't get that. How is answering the phone mentally
           | accepting the caller? What does it even mean to mentally
           | accept? Is it that you don't want to talk? Then let it go to
           | voicemail and decide if you want to call back or not? I think
           | I'm missing the point.
        
           | vineyardmike wrote:
           | I clear my throat. Do it loud enough that the other end can
           | tell someone is on the line, so they'll know to start the
           | conversation. It isn't a rude "WHAT" type answer, but it
           | doesn't directly acknowledge the caller, and is not inviting
           | a conversation. Its a common enough act that it's not
           | suspicious nor weird to hear during a conversation, and
           | therefore its not off-putting if extended family or clients
           | called from an unknown number.
           | 
           | It doesn't share my voice (for fingerprinting, demographic
           | leak, etc, smh).
           | 
           | Also works as a bot filter - Humans tend to start with a
           | "hello..?" because they're not sure anyone is there, while
           | robots use the non-zero audio as a signal to start talking
           | with full confidence.
        
         | mroche wrote:
         | Y-Zer myself and I do the same thing. I never initiate the
         | communication when called unless I am expecting it or I know
         | who the caller is. Otherwise, they'll know when someone picked
         | up because their side will stop ringing, and they'll only get
         | awkward silence until they start talking. Often times it's an
         | automated voice system that will not begin until prompted by
         | the callee, so it hits a timeout and hangs up.
         | 
         | The number of calls I get where it's either dead silence in the
         | other end or clearly a call center based on the noise can only
         | be categorized as "too much".
        
         | Markoff wrote:
         | Same here (xennial), it confuses lot of telemarketers out of
         | their script, if someone start talking with me I ask them "do I
         | have contract with you?", if the answer is "no", I hang up,
         | since it's clearly someone selling something.
         | 
         | related call scene from Fight Club how Tyler properly answers
         | the phone (not answering but calling back and his first
         | response is "Who is this?"):
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/tlw677Une_Q?si=xj3Sce9RdQ-_UfZP&t=85
        
       | greesil wrote:
       | I was thinking of doing something like this for text with LoRa.
       | But, having kids I don't have time to do that. This seems really
       | great!
       | 
       | I read the previous discussion, oof:
       | 
       | S04dKHzrKT wrote
       | 
       | Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the
       | data they collect. > Information Collected from Children: As
       | detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls,
       | call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact
       | list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may
       | also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related
       | to the Service.
       | 
       | [1]: https://tincan.kids/policies/privacy-policy
        
         | closeparen wrote:
         | This text does not appear in the link. I do see:
         | 
         | >Call Logs: We collect information about calls made using
         | Phones, including the phone numbers you call or receive calls
         | from, the date/time of the calls, and the length of the calls.
         | We also collect network quality metrics and other technical
         | data related to call performance. Please note that we do not
         | record calls.
         | 
         | The version of the privacy policy cited in the previous
         | discussion cited that voice audio is collected for the purposes
         | of forwarding it to the other phone.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | In addition to collecting all the metadata they also collect
           | the voices of children recorded in voicemails.
           | 
           | Their policy says that the information they collect is used
           | to "Send you marketing communications (see the section below
           | for information about how to opt out of these communications
           | at any time)" and to "Monitor and analyze trends, usage, and
           | activities in connection with our Phones and Services,
           | including to generate de-identified, anonymized, or
           | aggregated data" and to "Target advertisements to you on
           | third-party platforms and websites (for more information and
           | to opt out, see the Targeted Advertising and Analytics
           | section below)"
           | 
           | Remember that "de-identified" and "anonymized" is a lie. De-
           | identified data can be re-identified, and anonymized data can
           | be de-anonymized. Often trivially. There are even situations
           | where individuals can be identified from aggregated data.
        
             | closeparen wrote:
             | It would be better if they specifically excluded
             | advertising uses of call metadata, etc. I assume this is
             | getting mixed in from their ecommerce efforts to sell the
             | devices. But how do you expect them to play back the
             | voicemail if they don't have it? What would be the point of
             | "please leave a message after the beep" if the audio is
             | going to /dev/null?
        
               | ndriscoll wrote:
               | If it's a landline it could store the voicemail on
               | device, which is how phones used to work (or prior to
               | that, you'd plug an answering machine into the phone, but
               | it was still "with the phone"). A GB of flash would be
               | basically unlimited and cost a couple cents. You could
               | play an old school "your call could not be completed as
               | dialed" message if it's actually unavailable due to a
               | power/network outage or something.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Also note that if you buy a Tin Can unit, there's a noncompete
         | clause: You agree not to "build, benchmark, or develop a
         | competing product or service." So don't buy this if you work
         | for a telco, or a voice communications service of any kind.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | This is laughably unenforceable, and all the more ridiculous
           | for it.
        
             | hermannj314 wrote:
             | If a company puts unenforceable terms in their TOS, how
             | likely are they to comply with the law in every other
             | matter? No way would I give my kid a device made by these
             | people for that reason.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | Fair point, and totally agreed.
               | 
               | I literally LOLed at the idea that purchasing a consumer
               | product, at retail, could include stipulations on my
               | future employment. And at the hubris of any manufacturer
               | for imagining they could get away with such an absurd
               | idea.
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | Oh no, how dare I _checks_ stand up a VoIP ATA and plug a
           | phone into it. I 'll be waiting to hear from their legal
           | team.
        
         | NegativeLatency wrote:
         | Have you seen some of the Meshtastic hardware with built-in
         | keyboards?
         | https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/lilygo/tdeck/
        
           | greesil wrote:
           | I was thinking something like an esp32 + mesthastic / LoRa +
           | REST API on the LAN, discoverable via multi cast. The
           | "landline" is a tablet or phone with an app that talks to the
           | esp32. Separately, a parent with the app does the Diffie-
           | Hellman key exchange over SMS, NFC, or some other channel
           | with the friends who also have the app, and you know their
           | identity. The phone app updates the device with the friend's
           | keys, they do the same thing on their end, and voila you're
           | in business. The kids can talk securely, you can read that
           | the kids say via the LAN, no goddamned third parties.
        
             | dTal wrote:
             | You just reinvented the IM-ME, a device famous for being
             | used aftermarket to hack garage doors (in the days before
             | Flipper Zero).
        
               | greesil wrote:
               | Lol. That's cool, I've never heard of that!
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | I don't know when that previous comment is from but the text it
         | quotes is not in the linked privacy policy
        
           | greesil wrote:
           | It must have changed in the last 8 months
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | That privacy policy doesn't sound out of the norm for any
         | telco, which will be subjected to laws that require
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | It'd be extremely out of the norm for telco companies. Tin
           | Can uses the calls and voicemails to collect data on children
           | and sell that to others. That has zero to do with lawful
           | interception. The moment Tin Can becomes popular enough you
           | can bet that the government will be snooping those calls too
        
             | closeparen wrote:
             | It would be pretty spooky if your voice managed to come out
             | the other party's telephone without ever having been
             | collected into and processed by the telephone network.
             | Taking audio from one place and transporting it to another
             | is what we pay it for.
        
         | qmr wrote:
         | My six year old is a big Meshtastic fan.
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | >some gen Xers don't say hello..
       | 
       | That's entirely pragmatic in this data collecting age. Being
       | silent and hanging up as soon as you hear the spam won't get you
       | marked as a phone line that has a human on the other end nor do
       | you risk your voice being recorded. If you're silly enough to say
       | your name when answering you'll just end up with text and email
       | that is now personalised with your name (it's much faster to
       | identify and hang up when their best intro is to say "hello who
       | am i speaking to?" on a single person line _click_ ).
       | 
       | I don't know anyone in my age bracket (45) who doesn't do this
       | let alone those younger. It's entirely understood and expected.
       | Fuck anyone who says it's rude and those of an age particularly
       | prone to falling for scams (70+ and 15under) should be encouraged
       | to do this. You should be telling your kids "never say anything
       | on picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves!
       | They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your
       | name".
       | 
       | I feel all these "OMG the kids don't say hello anymore they have
       | no etiquette!!!" statements are either from the clueless or from
       | spammers frustrated that it's much harder to get through if you
       | don't know their name.
        
         | phyzome wrote:
         | Weird, I've _never_ encountered this.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | I never answer my land line with "Hello", because predictive
         | dialers recognize that as a go signal for telemarketers. I
         | usually answer my land line with my name, business style. Cell
         | phone is answered with "Hi, ... " depending on who's calling.
        
         | apparent wrote:
         | > You should be telling your kids "never say anything on
         | picking up, let the caller to your phone identify themselves!
         | They could be scammers trying to get your details such as your
         | name".
         | 
         | How does saying "hello" give scammers your details such as your
         | name?
        
           | blululu wrote:
           | I think the op was maybe on a bit of a tear and misspoke, but
           | the sentiment is correct. These days even saying hello can be
           | used to make a decent voice clone with some reasonable (say
           | 50%) chance that it is you (your phone number is linked to a
           | ton of information). I would personally try to minimize my
           | exposure to this risk even if it is somewhat paranoid.
        
           | vineyardmike wrote:
           | When I was younger, adults used to answer the phone with
           | "Hello, this is MyName, who am I speaking with?"
           | 
           | Pragmatically, even basic words from your voice can be used
           | to estimate your age, gender, and geographic region (local
           | accents).
           | 
           | But also read other comments, people are saying they answer
           | their phone by stating their name, so plenty clearly use it
           | as a greeting.
        
         | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
         | I go further.
         | 
         | Even if I am expecting a call from a service provider,
         | insurance, bank, whatever...
         | 
         | They'll want you to identify yourself, name, dob, address.
         | 
         | Never do this to unverified inbound callers.
         | 
         | And how do you verify an inbound caller is who thru claim they
         | are and not a scammer?
         | 
         | You don't. You tell them you never give out PII to inbound
         | callers as they are indistinguishable from scammers.
         | 
         | Then call the them on their publicly listed number and deal
         | with the issue from there.
         | 
         | We need to encourage service providers to _stop doing that_ as
         | it is exactly leads to people being more easily scammed.
        
         | nekusar wrote:
         | Theres a class of spam calls that start with what sounds like a
         | pitch rising "bloop". 100% of the time this is a spam/scam.
         | 
         | Not sure what system they're using, or why there's that
         | characteristic BLOOP.
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | The 'bloop' is a beep for the _other_ person being dumped
           | onto the call. Typically in a call center /contact center
           | system like this, the agent's headset is _always_ live. When
           | the  'bloop' comes in, it's an audible cue for the agent to
           | actually pick up themselves as their ringtone on the line. At
           | the end of the call they hit 'release' and wait for the next
           | 'bloop' to go live again.
        
       | ripplefringe wrote:
       | A year ago, I got my 8 y/o a landline (we used Ooma). It has been
       | absolutely wonderful.
       | 
       | By far the best thing is that he makes his own playdates. I'm not
       | the middleman anymore. He just makes plans and asks me if it's
       | ok. And if his friend doesn't have a landline, I let him call
       | their parent. It surprises them, but when he leaves a message,
       | they love it. He's definitely had more time with friends because
       | of it.
       | 
       | Another funny thing was he complained about writing a thank you
       | note, so we said "OK, the alternative is that you have to call
       | them". He called them, had a nice conversation, and thanked them.
       | Honestly, it was better than a thank you note.
       | 
       | It's been one of the best purchases we're made. I feel some hope
       | this will delay the eventual begging for a smart phone because
       | he's able to do the most critical thing, connect with friends.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | This is a good idea. I need to start getting phone numbers from
         | people.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | My 9 and 12 year old share a "kid" phone that's just a hand-me-
         | down parent phone. This partially meets that need, but it still
         | gets used for way too much unsupervised YouTube time.
         | 
         | The thing for me that has really unlocked voice-based
         | socializing has been the 12 year old jumping on Discord with
         | his buddies from school. I feel like this mirrors well how I
         | myself chat with my adult male friends--it's rarely in the
         | context of just "a call" but rather while doing another
         | activity. So when I see him joking around with them while they
         | play Minecraft or whatever, that feels like it's a reasonable
         | pattern for how to sustain friendships.
        
           | jkestner wrote:
           | My kid uses a shared Google doc to chat with friends on their
           | school-issued Chromebooks. (But still has the problem of
           | unsupervised screen time.)
        
             | cka wrote:
             | Same! They have a thing called presentation city that is a
             | slide deck that is a sort of ad hoc social media platform.
        
           | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
           | You can always get them an old school payphone...
           | https://payphone.com/Pay-Phone/Personal-Pay-Phone.html
        
         | mememememememo wrote:
         | Do we think a dumb phone Nokia and calls only SIM is just as
         | good (to avoid all the drilling etc. of installing landlines in
         | each kids room?)
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | Ooma has a wifi box that you plug your handset into. It's not
           | like a POTS where you need to put a jack in every room.
        
           | jkestner wrote:
           | I dug out an old Motofone (the $40 eink candybar) for this
           | reason, only to discover that it's 2G, which has been
           | decommissioned. Too bad, would've been fun to watch the kid
           | learn T9.
        
             | mememememememo wrote:
             | 2G to 3G converter ftw!
        
               | ale42 wrote:
               | Is there such a thing? Given it's radio waves in
               | regulated radio spectrum, I'm not sure such a device
               | would even be allowed to operate without a license. This
               | said, there are 3G Nokia dumbphones (e.g. C2-01). I just
               | had to stop using one because my operator tore down the
               | 3G network here, like in most of Europe. (2G was already
               | down since some time).
               | 
               | Edit: there are even 4G-VoLTE dumbphones by the way.
        
             | eloisant wrote:
             | Modern dumbphones exist:
             | https://www.hmd.com/en_int/nokia-3210
        
               | jkestner wrote:
               | Of course they do. But this is HN - not as neat as using
               | the 15-year-old phone I have.
        
               | jtbayly wrote:
               | I mean, sure you can find them if you look hard enough,
               | but a phone that plays videos is _not_ a dumbphone in my
               | book. And I wouldn 't hand it to my kid. It's probably
               | worse than handing them a smartphone, because I'm
               | guessing it is just dumb enough to have no parental
               | controls.
        
               | tbyehl wrote:
               | For Americans, QVC and Target regularly have the BLU Flex
               | or TCL Flip 3 bundled with a year of Tracfone service for
               | $50 or less.
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | You can buy a new feature phone with 4G for peanuts.
        
             | ninalanyon wrote:
             | Nokia 105 has 4G version.
        
           | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
           | I believe cordless VoIP phones are still a product one can
           | purchase new.
           | 
           | They need only an electrical outlet for the charge stand.
        
         | Aperocky wrote:
         | Make me really want to build one for my son when he gets to
         | that age.
         | 
         | If I build it, I can control the full feature set and explain
         | to him how it worked and he'll get the 'cool' factor too. With
         | the raspberry pi I have lying around at home, it doesn't sound
         | impossible!
        
           | philips wrote:
           | It is really straightforward with some cheap hardware and
           | patience. I have another comment on this thread with more
           | breadcrumbs but I used a Fanvil "hotel phone" and voip.ms.
           | Under $50 and an afternoon all in and you have full control.
        
         | venusenvy47 wrote:
         | My kids are grown up, but my mom is worried about her AT&T
         | service switching to VOIP. She didn't understand my description
         | of Ooma, which I've been using for many years, but now I'm
         | thinking that I should just bring over all the needed hardware
         | and just call it a landline.
        
           | testbjjl wrote:
           | Landlines work when there is no power, which depending on
           | where you live can happen more or less often but an important
           | feature for an elderly family member especially if they live
           | alone.
           | 
           | For my situation, telling my mom her voip phone was a
           | landline would be problematic.
           | 
           | I do need some solution though, AT&T technicians tell me
           | copper thieves are disrupting her service regularly.
        
             | madwolf wrote:
             | If the isp doesn't go down with the power outage you could
             | probably get a big enough ups to keep the router and voip
             | phone going for at least a couple of hours. Those things
             | don't use much power
        
             | jaywcarman wrote:
             | I just setup a VOIP line at home and have it plugged into
             | my UPS (along with my cable modem + network devices) to
             | provide call service in the event of a power outage.
        
               | christkv wrote:
               | In a big black out live we had in Spain the
               | infrastructure all goes down. I was the only with data
               | because i had star link and batteries in the house. Not
               | that I could call anyone in Spain though.
        
             | FredFS456 wrote:
             | Landlines only work when there is no power if: - you use an
             | old school landline phone (not cordless) - your landline is
             | actually copper going to the house (I've seen fiber to
             | house + conversion to twisted pair by a box with a battery)
             | - upstream infrastructure either still has (possibly
             | battery) power
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | Formal thank you notes seem to have been going out of fashion,
         | I actually like that tradition, thank you for keeping it going.
        
         | freetanga wrote:
         | I bought two office phones for 30 euros each (Yealink) and set
         | up a VOIP plan with voip.ms for my 8 and 9 YO kids.
         | 
         | I recently got divorced, so there is a phone at each house in
         | case they want to reach out to the other parent directly. Ex
         | and I did not want the kids to feel their right to reach the
         | other parent needed to ask for permission
         | 
         | Family has Softphone in their mobiles, so the full family is a
         | speed dial away.
         | 
         | I also whitelist numbers they can dial out.
         | 
         | So far it's working like a charm, they love it.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | That's beautiful and I respect your and your ex's commitment
           | to be good co-parents.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | I have a strong belief we should experience most/all the levels
         | of technology as we grow up to better appreciate our current
         | state.
         | 
         | e.g. corded phone -> cordless phone -> mobile phone ->
         | smartphone
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | records -> tape -> CD -> MP3 -> cloud
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | Atari -> NES -> SNES -> N64 -> Gamecube -> Wii -> Switch 2
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | For the nerdy who might want to set up their own similar system
       | for their kids, and let their kids pick any landline phone they
       | want, you can get an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) on eBay for
       | cheap, then connect it to a Raspberry Pi with Asterisk, and any
       | VOIP provider, to make your own PBX.
       | (https://www.littlebytesofpi.com/raspberrypihomephone/)
        
         | philips wrote:
         | It blows my mind that the current Cisco ATA is $150+.
         | 
         | For the service I am building (havenphone.com) I used
         | Grandstream HT801 with success with voip.ms. I don't love how
         | easy their cloud can take over the device though.
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | There are much older ATAs on eBay for ~$20, they still work
           | fine, since POTS and SIP don't change
        
         | venusenvy47 wrote:
         | Can I use Google Voice as the VOIP provider? I read that
         | article and couldn't tell if Voice is used in addition to
         | another VOIP service, like Ooma.
        
       | apparent wrote:
       | > There's also a free plan where Tin Can users can call only
       | other Tin Can users.
       | 
       | So you have to pay a monthly subscription for this, in addition
       | to $75 for each phone, if you want to talk with anyone outside of
       | their walled garden?
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | A monthly fee for a phone service sounds pretty normal to me?
        
           | apparent wrote:
           | In the age of FT audio calls and such, it seems out of place.
           | I get paying for the hardware, and even a bit of a premium
           | because the UI has so many parental controls. But charging a
           | monthly fee seems surprising since the differentiation versus
           | FT/GV/etc. is on the UI side, not the "you can talk to your
           | friends" side. There is no monthly cost to a UI.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | If you want to call POTS numbers, seems reasonable to pay a
             | fee. voip.ms (of Canada, I think) charges ~ $2/month for a
             | number and ~ $0.01 / minute for calls to US/Canada, calls
             | to other subscribers are free. They work with deposits and
             | a balance. Something in that range seems reasonable...
             | maybe a little bit more if there's some work to make it
             | specifically kid friendly (parental controls for
             | incoming/outgoing calls?)
        
               | apparent wrote:
               | Fair enough...$10/mo seems high. And I say this as
               | someone in the target demo.
        
               | philips wrote:
               | What price point would feel good to you?
               | 
               | I am working on a similar service for my own needs (and
               | some other friends). But, my current plan is to hit
               | $100/yr or so but the hardware is included in that cost.
               | I am assuming $2/mo for costs of the number and minutes
               | and retail costs for VOIP hotel phones is about $50.
               | Hopefully the hardware costs amortize out and then I can
               | offer a discount to users on subsequent years.
               | 
               | (If you want to go DIY you can save quite a bit of money
               | too- I provided some breadcrumbs for doing that in my
               | comment on the parent)
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | FT audio calls are in the same boat where if everyone you
             | knows has an iPad you can make calls within that walled
             | garden for free and don't need to be allocated a phone
             | number. Admittedly more useful since so many people have an
             | Apple product.
             | 
             | Anything where you want a phone number and to communicate
             | with the rest of the phone network, I'd expect to pay money
             | for it. Google Voice is the (only?) oddball here.
        
         | unleaded wrote:
         | i mean you do for any phone line
        
         | MiddleEndian wrote:
         | >walled garden
         | 
         | Makes sense to me. Ideally, people outside of my friends and
         | family would not be able to call me on my regular phone either.
        
           | apparent wrote:
           | You don't want to be able to communicate with your doctor,
           | kid's teacher, someone who is coming to repair your home, a
           | neighbor who just moved in, etc.?
        
       | galaxyLogic wrote:
       | Wonderful idea. The kid can call their friend "Let's meet
       | outside". Then they go outside and (must) leave the phone at
       | home. They use the phone to organize no-phone time together.
       | Might be good for adults too.
       | 
       | For instance my boss couldn't call me while I'm out and about.
       | What you expect me to carry my landline with me?
        
         | jrflowers wrote:
         | I know somebody that's been landline-only since the 70s and
         | only recently got a cell phone that's strictly used for one
         | specific unavoidable 2FA thing. One of the happiest and most
         | professionally accomplished people I know.
        
       | shykes wrote:
       | I'm a happy Tin Can customer. For young children (5 and 7 in my
       | case) it's especially delightful to give them a measure of
       | autonomy, at an age where they don't yet have a mobile phone.
       | They get to call their friends and family on their own terms,
       | without any safety or "screen time" concerns.
       | 
       | It's especially fun to watch them discover the very concept of a
       | landline: the keypad (they thought it was a pin code); the dial
       | tone; the memorizing and writing down of phone numbers.
       | 
       | 5/5 highly recommended.
        
         | qmr wrote:
         | Another comment claims they record calls.
         | 
         | Big yikes.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Big yikes is an understatement.
           | 
           | I would rather just have an old iPad and trust my child to
           | use it responsibly.
           | 
           | Overall I think that while the Zoomers are doomed, because
           | they grew up in the height of social media frenzy, generation
           | alpha put two and two together and collectively noticed that
           | screen time = no attention from parents. Some are okay with
           | that, but others, like my kid prefer having attention above
           | all.
        
       | semi-extrinsic wrote:
       | I "made" something like this 7-8 years ago for our first kid.
       | When I say "made" I mean I bought a "fixed wireless terminal" for
       | $40 on eBay, a classic landline phone for $30, and a cell phone
       | subscription for kids ($5/month). Then I connected the parts, and
       | voila, we had a landline for kids.
       | 
       | Obvious benefits include low cost, full interop with all other
       | phones, and having the kids learn our phone numbers by heart
       | after punching them many times.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | I made something using a VOIP phone and voip.ms. What provider
         | has a $5/mo kids cell subscription!?
         | 
         | voip.ms is about $1.30/mo with the cost of the phone number
         | (DID) and "minutes".
         | 
         | I have some more breadcrumbs on this thread if you are
         | interested in details on my setup too.
        
           | deltoidmaximus wrote:
           | Regarding minutes, how many minutes? My kids basically hog my
           | VoIP "landline" talking to their cousins 50% of the time
           | they're home. (They're actually playing games together and
           | using the phone as voice chat). I've been thinking of trying
           | to get a second line for them to hog but didn't want anything
           | with limited minutes.
        
             | philips wrote:
             | It is pay as you go $0.008/min
             | 
             | https://voip.ms/pricing
        
           | semi-extrinsic wrote:
           | My cellphone provider offers a limited kids cell
           | subscription. Things like "can only call 5 different pre-
           | approved numbers, no data traffic". I think the business
           | model is that after a period of time, people bump into the
           | limitations and upgrade to the $10/mo version.
        
         | simonmales wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing the "fixed wireless terminal" tip. A HN post
         | a while ago describe hacking a landline to a wireless terminal.
         | But this tip removes the hacking :)
        
       | quijoteuniv wrote:
       | I like the idea. We tried with licence free walkie talkies, but
       | it did not catch on. What it worked is the xplora watches. Only
       | approved contacts and we can also contact our kids and check GPS
       | position . They are a bit buggy sometimes but mostly fine
        
         | worldsayshi wrote:
         | Yeah I've seen some parents use this to great success. Seems to
         | also allow them more freedom to allow kids to explore a bit
         | more on their own. Like it's the 90's.
        
       | bit_logic wrote:
       | Why does it seem like many parents are unaware that a hand me
       | down iPhone can be heavily locked down with screen time settings?
       | A list of things you can do:
       | 
       | - allowed list of apps, can reduce it to just phone, imessage,
       | and utilities like weather app
       | 
       | - effectively permanent downtime, just set the end time less than
       | start time such as 3:00 am to 2:59 am (technically 1 minute of
       | non downtime). This blocks apps except for the allowed apps
       | 
       | - disable installing apps from app store
       | 
       | - disable adding new contacts and block calls and messages not in
       | contact list. This allows parent to control who the phone can be
       | used to contact
       | 
       | - none of these settings can be changed without the screen time
       | pin
       | 
       | - also configure the phone with a minor apple account and add to
       | your family group so you can monitor and control screen time
       | settings from your phone.
       | 
       | So start with a super locked down phone that can only be used to
       | communicate with parents. This is very helpful when they start
       | after school sports. And the phone is so locked down they don't
       | really have any interest in it.
       | 
       | Later when they're older start allowing communication with
       | friends from school. But still only phone and imessage, no other
       | apps. This reinforces that it's a communication device, not for
       | endless scrolling and watching videos.
        
         | Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
         | I mean, a landline + phone is way cheaper to be fair
        
           | schwartzworld wrote:
           | Or a MagicJack
        
         | light_hue_1 wrote:
         | Parents are aware. This is a horrible solution.
         | 
         | What's going to happen immediately is that kids with equivalent
         | phones will compare, realize that one has a lot of restrictions
         | and the other doesn't, and it becomes a nightmare. They know
         | that all you need to do is unlock it for them.
         | 
         | It's the same mental distinction between "For $200 we'll
         | install rear seat warmers in your Tesla" and "For $200 we'll
         | 'unlock' the already-present rear seat warmers" (that's the
         | only hardware unlock I've ever paid for and I'm still bitter 7
         | years later).
        
           | choo-t wrote:
           | > What's going to happen immediately is that kids with
           | equivalent phones will compare, realize that one has a lot of
           | restrictions and the other doesn't, and it becomes a
           | nightmare. They know that all you need to do is unlock it for
           | them.
           | 
           | Don't you think they will as easily realize their newly
           | purchased TinCan is far more restricted than the 10 year old
           | phone theirs friends received from their parents/siblings?
        
             | M95D wrote:
             | It's not restricted. It's less capable. Entirely different
             | thing. And they'll view it as a completely different device
             | for different purpose (voice calls vs. doom scrolling).
        
               | choo-t wrote:
               | Specifically designed to be less capable is the same as
               | being restricted. It's purpose is explicitly to restrict
               | the user communication to some predefined setting by a
               | third party (the parent and company behind it) and the
               | user is well aware of that, as this e-waste cost as much
               | as a cheap or second hand smartphone.
        
               | ForHackernews wrote:
               | The jukebox I got for my basement is not a restricted
               | Spotify-enabled smart speaker. It's a different device
               | that does something different.
        
               | choo-t wrote:
               | First, you got it for yourself, so you chose to use a
               | jukebox (or in other words : restrict your listening to
               | specific titles on physical media) instead to impose it
               | to other, which make a big difference in what people see
               | as a restrictions(instead of a choice, which is self
               | inflicted).
               | 
               | Chosing a Tin Can is obviously to restrict your kid usage
               | of communication, it's the nature of the purchase of the
               | device.
        
               | goku12 wrote:
               | First of all, comparing a locked-down smartphone with a
               | fully capable smartphone is different from comparing a
               | smartphone with a 'landline phone'. That's like apples to
               | apples compared to apples to oranges.
               | 
               | Secondly as far as I understand, you need the same type
               | of phone at both ends to communicate with each other.
               | Looks like the tin-can and other similar devices are
               | designed to talk only to each other. While that is a
               | restriction, it eliminates the avenue for a comparison.
               | The friends are all on equal ground.
               | 
               | Thirdly, you're talking as if parental controls,
               | especially unequal parental controls are a bad thing.
               | Parental controls aren't like government or corporate
               | restrictions. There is a necessary assumption that
               | parents act in the best interests of the kids, unlike the
               | other two.
               | 
               | Some parents are irresponsible and may allow their kids
               | to consume alcohol or drugs. Will you allow your kids to
               | do it too, because it may end up in comparisons? You have
               | to talk to your kids about why that is a bad idea. It's
               | wrong to assume that kids won't listen at all. Don't most
               | kids refrain from drinking, smoking and driving till they
               | come of age?
               | 
               | If this sort of control seems unfair or unethical to you,
               | you're basically exposing your kids to serious dangers.
               | And brain rot is a very serious problem that HN doesn't
               | talk enough about. It ruins even the seniors. But for
               | kids, it wreaks havoc with their IQ and personality.
        
               | ForHackernews wrote:
               | Choosing a Tin Can for a child that doesn't have a phone
               | isn't restricting them, it's empowering them with a new
               | form of communication to chat to their friends. Getting
               | my 10 year old a bicycle instead of a car isn't a
               | restriction.
        
               | apetresc wrote:
               | Compared to getting them nothing, yes. But the OP's point
               | is that this doesn't prevent the child from mentally
               | comparing themselves to peers that have a smartphone, and
               | viewing their Tin Can as a "restriction" imposed by their
               | parents.
               | 
               | Which it is. I don't understand the need to wink-wink-
               | nudge-nudge pretend it's anything else by the others in
               | this thread. Just own it, restrictions aren't bad by
               | default.
        
               | M95D wrote:
               | It's no use having an argument with thig guy. He simply
               | has a more modern* definition of what "restricted" means.
               | 
               | *I don't know what to call it. It's like those people
               | that buy a car with heated seats locked down by
               | subscription and calling it "a feature" because some cars
               | don't have them at all.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | It's not "restricted", it's designed to serve a different
               | purpose. A bicycle is not a "restricted" car.
        
           | qmr wrote:
           | Nightmare? Maybe you need to work on telling your children
           | no.
           | 
           | Instead of being bitter for 7 years perhaps you should not
           | have purchased such an absurd thing.
        
           | eloisant wrote:
           | That's why I'm thinking of getting my kid (who doesn't have a
           | phone yet) a Unihertz Jelly Star.
           | 
           | https://www.unihertz.com/fr-fr/products/jelly-star
           | 
           | - Because it's small, it doesn't look like a regular
           | smartphone
           | 
           | - The small size would make it impractical for social
           | media/scrolling/videos even if I were to unlock it
           | 
           | ...but compared to a dumbphone, I can still allow Spotify and
           | their school management software so they can access their
           | schedule and homework
        
             | sh4rks wrote:
             | That looks very ugly. Any kid above the age of 12 would
             | reject that.
        
         | jrflowers wrote:
         | I don't think people are buying this fun novelty landline phone
         | because they haven't heard of parental controls
        
           | eloisant wrote:
           | As another commenter said, the problem with parental controls
           | on a smartphone is your kid constantly nagging you to approve
           | installation of one more app, or extend their daily limit
           | "just for today" (again).
           | 
           | With a device that's not a smartphone, you don't have this
           | problem.
        
         | janfoeh wrote:
         | For some people like me, iOS parental controls are utterly and
         | completely broken. I have tried to make it work over three or
         | four years and just as many iOS releases - no dice.
         | 
         | About a dozen times in those years, the system silently failed
         | open either completely or partially (eg. some restrictions
         | still applied, but whitelists in Safari were no longer
         | enforced, the app store was suddenly accessible again or time
         | limits were no longer in place). Not once was there any
         | indication on the parent device.
         | 
         | Several times, the only way to reenable broken restrictions was
         | to wipe the device, because changes to parental controls simply
         | stopped syncing.
         | 
         | Here's long-time Mac developer and blogger Michael Tsai
         | describing the same thing:
         | https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/09/24/screen-time-brokenness/
        
           | locao wrote:
           | Yep. After years of frustration, trying every possible way to
           | fix it, uncountable hours of searching, I asked Claude about
           | it: "just subscribe to an external service". This is
           | ridiculous, Android's parental controls work flawlessly. If I
           | knew that beforehand, I would never had got my kid an iOS
           | device.
        
           | vtbassmatt wrote:
           | The opposite is also true: Apple's parental controls fail
           | closed in inscrutable and impossible to debug ways.
           | Yesterday, in order to share an iPad's location with my
           | iPhone, I had to totally disable managing Screen Time on the
           | device. Every time I would click "share with <my name>", the
           | damn thing would tell me "Location settings can't be updated
           | right now, try again later". No other combination of
           | "solutions" on the Apple support forum, the random blogspam
           | links, or the oh-so-helpful search-AI-summary thing even made
           | a dent. I suspect something in the underlying data model was
           | out of sync with the UI or something. Incredibly frustrating
           | experience from the "it just works" vendor.
        
         | benchloftbrunch wrote:
         | Best (for older kids) would be a dumb cell phone like we had in
         | the 2000s. Good for phone calls, texting, and simple offline
         | apps like casual games, camera and music player. Maybe email.
         | Definitely no web browser, youtube, or social media crap.
         | 
         | I don't know the extent to which such devices are still
         | manufactured today.
        
           | eloisant wrote:
           | There are: https://www.hmd.com/en_int/nokia-3210
           | 
           | (and it's not the only one, also check KaiOS phones)
        
         | throwaway_19sz wrote:
         | Because it's a lot easier to refuse to buy an expensive gadget
         | for your kids than to refuse to press a few buttons to set them
         | free.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | Same exact reason 90% of people don't use the Shortcuts app.
         | This stuff is obvious for you and me, but tedious and painful
         | for everyone else, and it's still easy to miss one thing that
         | leaves it easy to circumvent. There are people whose full time
         | job is managing MDM in IT departments, and it's not just
         | because of the number of devices they manage. It's because this
         | stuff is complicated. And that's for grownups, whose judgment
         | is expected to be better than 12-year-olds, and who can be
         | fired.
         | 
         | Also Screen Time is a little better in a few ways than what
         | Android offers, but it's still a joke, is incredibly Byzantine,
         | and limits your options as a parent.
        
         | mountainb wrote:
         | All of this is work, more work, admin work, things I would pay
         | an assistant to do. Why would I want to be a system
         | administrator when I can just not give my children systems that
         | I need to administer?
         | 
         | This type of solution provides a simple system that requires
         | very little administration and supervision. The problem with
         | modern communications tech as it relates to children is that by
         | default these systems provide access to every adult on planet
         | earth to your child's inbox. That is not a feature that I need,
         | but rather is a crippling design flaw much more likely to harm
         | my kids than it is to help them.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | How do I lock down the iPhone so it works only at home?
        
           | lostmsu wrote:
           | Never put a SIM in it?
        
         | StevenNunez wrote:
         | Hello! Parent that's fully aware of this. My son has access to
         | a landline and it solves the problem of tech as a tool vs a
         | past time. If he thinks of his friend, he calls, friends reach
         | out etc. No scrolling for something to do. I see my phone usage
         | and am constantly trying to introduce friction into it. This is
         | an extension of that concept.
        
         | StrangeWill wrote:
         | Apple makes this a _huge_ PITA, along with having to do a
         | significant amount of it from another apple device.
         | 
         | I'm glad we ditched iPads, it sucked.
        
           | breakpointalpha wrote:
           | This has to be intentional.
           | 
           | Drug dealer getting the kids hooked early is priority #1.
           | 
           | Give just enough "parental control" to lure parents in.
           | 
           | Make it just annoying enough that the parents eventually give
           | up and the kid is the one pushing the drug the entire time.
        
         | kgwxd wrote:
         | I did that for my kid when he was 10 or so. He had it "hacked"
         | before I knew it. If he had done it himself, I would have been
         | proud, but some other kid did it. Never even tried after that.
         | He's 17 now, he's fine.
        
         | sparrc wrote:
         | As a parent, two reasons:
         | 
         | 1. The admin work of parental controls in Apple is non-trivial
         | and obscure. I would guess there are something like 300
         | different knobs and settings you can control for each kid
         | individually. The UX is terrible and there are features missing
         | that seem extremely basic and fundamental. For example, I can't
         | see how much time left my kids currently have, nor can I block
         | any app "now".
         | 
         | 2. "the phone is so locked down they don't really have any
         | interest in it." This has not been my experience at all. My
         | kids know that less-locked-down devices exist and frequently
         | complain about the restrictions.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Indeed, there's an additional problem as well. There are
           | settings, and then there are settings that allow one to
           | _change_ the settings. Not only are there hundreds of
           | settings but they are duplicated in this way.
           | 
           | Configuring them from scratch is a minimum 20 minute job, and
           | then you need to double and triple check to avoid mistakes.
           | More like a half hour.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Our kid breaks through the screen time regularly, even with new
         | passcodes. Have a theory it is done from the wife's macbook,
         | but not entirely sure. Gave up; would not recommend or use
         | again.
        
         | BloondAndDoom wrote:
         | I think we are except Apple lockdown experience for this is
         | total shit show, not only you need to spend so much time but
         | also if you need to change something (at least for me) it just
         | reset all the previous options, because I turned it off to
         | manually install something that was locked down
         | 
         | I have a device setup like this but I hate it, it's possibly
         | the worst UX I've used from Apple.
        
       | sharkweek wrote:
       | We got one of these for our elementary-aged kids because it took
       | off in our network of families at their school.
       | 
       | It's so fun watching them talk to their buddies from school,
       | planning play dates, just chitchatting etc. My favorite thing is
       | when they prank call one another, cracks me up.
       | 
       | Maybe the novelty wears off soon but for at least the last month
       | or so they've used it every day. It feels like it gives them a
       | bit of autonomy they're seeking right now at their ages, but in a
       | relatively safe way.
       | 
       | Highly recommend it.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | Somewhat OT:
       | 
       | It is actually amazing how far with a couple of tin cans,
       | greaseproof paper taped around one end, and string attached to
       | the paper. You are not going to do VOIP, but 50 yards is
       | possible.
       | 
       | Even more OT:
       | 
       | One Xmas my Dad (unredeemable gadget freak, early adopter of the
       | TRS80) gave me and my little bro two wired handsets with
       | batteries and a ringer. We wired up brother's bedroom to living
       | room, but soon realised our horrible mistake:
       | 
       | [ring, ring]
       | 
       | "Can I have a glass of water?"
       | 
       | [ring, ring]
       | 
       | "Can I have a glass of water?"
       | 
       | It lasted less than a day.
       | 
       | We also had a similar setup that did morse code, that was much
       | less intrusive, not least because me and my little bro did not
       | know morse, except for SOS.
        
         | intrasight wrote:
         | You mirrored my kid communication tech experience, except mine
         | was with my neighbor next door. My brother and I were 13 and 12
         | respectively. The neighbors were two girls: 14 and 12. Bedroom
         | windows about 22 feet apart.
         | 
         | Our list of experiments included: Written signs Tin cans Morse
         | code circuit Wired handset Walkie-talkies
         | 
         | The fun lasted a couple years until puberty struck.
        
       | Markoff wrote:
       | I fail to see any benefit over:
       | 
       | 1. dumb phone with fixed dial contacts
       | 
       | 2. properly set smartphone which can be used as dumb phone with
       | restricted contacts and no app install allowed, apps screen time
       | limited to zero or heck even browser disabled in guest profile
       | 
       | 3. kids smartwatch with parental controls which limit who they
       | can call and who can call and message them, I'm just working on
       | one of these and it's great even for seniors
       | 
       | If you don't like kid having wearable with them I have shocking
       | news for you - you can leave all of the above at home!
       | 
       | Btw. kids nowadays don't really call each other, they text (IM)
       | each other. And for the record I am one of those few parents who
       | didn't give phone/tablet to their toddlers hands like majority of
       | people do wheever they are (public transport, car, waiting room,
       | etc.), my older elementary school kid has "dumb" phone (my old
       | Symbian Nokia, but he use it only for calls/SMS anyway, though I
       | will probably switch to restricted smartphone since it's
       | inconvenient even for me not being able to send whatsapp message,
       | battery is crap and classmates have whatsapp as well), my younger
       | elementary school kid doesn't have anything, but when she goes
       | outside alone she takes Motorola walkie talkie with roughly
       | 0.5-1km range in city.
       | 
       | edit: related call scene from Fight Club how Tyler properly
       | answers the phone (not answering but calling back and his first
       | response is "Who is this?"):
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/tlw677Une_Q?si=xj3Sce9RdQ-_UfZP&t=85
        
       | philips wrote:
       | I am working on a similar project. I have something working for
       | my own needs and a few other families already but a long road to
       | go before making something GA.
       | 
       | You can waitlist at https://havenphone.com if you are interested.
       | 
       | There were three major things I wanted to do differently from Tin
       | Can:
       | 
       | - I wanted to use off the shelf VOIP hardware so if the company
       | ever went out of business I (and any of my users) had an escape
       | valve or could just sell the hardware.
       | 
       | - I wanted to have a code base I could open source. (not open
       | source, yet!)
       | 
       | - I wanted flexibility to offer ATAs (devices that let you
       | connect any ol' "analog" phone)- some of my parent friends wanted
       | cordless "DACT" phones, interestingly.
       | 
       | It has been quite an adventure entering the world of VOIP.
       | 
       | The SIP protocol has so many esoteric options (understandably
       | given its history!) it could make TLS look simple.
       | 
       | My most recent learning is this crazy protocol called TR-069 that
       | ISPs use to configure endpoint hardware like home routers, cable
       | modems, and VOIP phones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-069
       | 
       | Also, interestingly every cheap (sub-$50) phone and ATA I have
       | tried has a built-in OpenVPN clients.
       | 
       | Oh, and one more interesting thing Grandstream ATAs are able to
       | be taken over by the Grandstream cloud service by just providing
       | the ATA serial number and mac address on the back of the device-
       | I did not love that workflow when considering long-term security.
       | (:
       | 
       | If you have $50 and some time to kill you can do it all yourself
       | right now. In voip.ms you can use the phone book and the caller
       | id filter to create a "*" hang-up rule and an "allow phone book"
       | rule.
       | 
       | - https://major.io/p/85-cents-home-phone/
       | 
       | - https://www.voipsupply.com/fanvil-h3w-wifi-hotel-ip-phone-wh...
       | 
       | - https://www.voipsupply.com/fanvil-h2u-black-hotel-phone-v2
       | 
       | - https://www.voipsupply.com/grandstream-ht801-v2-ata
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | This seems to be begging for a DIY project, doesn't it?
       | 
       | A 3d printed case, a little SoC, perhaps a Raspberry Pi Zero, as
       | the brains with asterisk and some additional open source software
       | providing a web interface running on it.
        
         | hellweaver666 wrote:
         | Would i require some public server side component to handle the
         | call routing etc? (or could you just use something like Google
         | Voice?)
        
           | philips wrote:
           | I went the DIY route (you can find the details as a parent
           | comment). But, I had good luck with voip.ms as a SIP
           | provider. It is inexpensive at $1.10/month for the phone
           | number and $0.008/min for calling. And it has a pretty good
           | history of user forums, wiki, etc for debugging hints with
           | various hardware.
        
       | pcblues wrote:
       | This is a nice idea, because it physically limits the place the
       | child can call from. Even a very under-powered phone sets them
       | free.
       | 
       | However, a new severely under-powered phone with no graphics or
       | apps would probably meet the requirements of not being sucked
       | into the grown-up world too early, and the kids can maintain
       | their own contact lists.
       | 
       | And they'll grow super-fast thumbs like we had to in order to
       | text :)
       | 
       | They cost about $50 but are still 4G.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | Have you found a under powered phone that lets you lock down
         | the Phone's incoming to an allow list?
         | 
         | That is the thing me (and most parent friends) want: freedom
         | from spam calls and potential strangers.
        
       | kleiba wrote:
       | _> she 's found another way to put off getting her [8-year-old]
       | daughter a cellphone_
       | 
       | I don't live in the US but my child, who is 9, does not have a
       | cell phone nor does any of his school mates. They "chat" when
       | they see each other in school, or when they hang out together to
       | play after school.
        
       | alexchengyuli wrote:
       | Funny enough, China already ran this experiment. Kids'
       | smartwatches started as call-only devices for safety. Then they
       | added friend lists, status updates, like counts, popularity
       | rankings. Little Genius now has 48% of the global kids'
       | smartwatch market [1]. Kids delete real-life friends for not
       | having enough likes on the watch. Once a device enters a kid's
       | social life, there's no market incentive to keep it simple.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-
       | trends/article/3328227/move-o...
        
         | papyrus9244 wrote:
         | >Then they added friend lists, status updates, like counts,
         | popularity rankings.
         | 
         | That sounds absolutely horrible.
        
           | tty456 wrote:
           | Why?
        
             | makeworld wrote:
             | > Kids delete real-life friends for not having enough likes
             | on the watch.
        
       | digital_af wrote:
       | If you live in Germany and have a Fritz!Box router, you can just
       | buy a second old-ish Fritz!Box and a simple landline phone (from
       | the likes of eBay, Kleinanzeigen...) and hook them up via WiFi.
       | 
       | Voila, telephone service as it used to be. No proprietary
       | payphone with questionable ToS and privacy policies needed.
        
         | aktau wrote:
         | Why does one need the second (old-ish) Fritz!Box? Doesn't the
         | first one already have DECT?
         | 
         | Also, does this not require a landline number?
        
       | aaronharnly wrote:
       | I have a Tin Can for my 8 year old - it is terrific and he loves
       | it. He can call friends, grandparents, and his cousins; it is
       | more reliable than the DIY version I was cobbling together with a
       | Pi and some Legos; and my spouse or parents can supervise or
       | update it too.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | What tech stack did you use before? It is interesting so many
         | comments mention Pi when there are so many boring VOIP phones.
         | 
         | I wrote an app that some friends use right now. So, always
         | interested to hear what people cobbled together!
        
       | utopiah wrote:
       | Most of those "ideas" are basically :
       | 
       | - take a phone, remove features, package with bright colors,
       | profit (or VC then profit, maybe).
       | 
       | Sadly a lot of those aren't recycling old gadgets, they are just
       | making new ones and block features, lock down in their own
       | "store", etc. I think it's actually quite terrible.
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | Yes, and dumbphones exist (again). You can buy a newer version
         | of the Nokia 3210 that charges with USB-C and works on modern
         | cell networks.
        
           | philips wrote:
           | The main feature I want for my kids is an explicit allow list
           | to keep them from gettin spam or talking to randoms.
           | 
           | The manual I found doesn't seem to have this feature. Also
           | the advertising page has "Cloud Apps for news, weather, and
           | more" :(
           | https://www.hmd.com/en_int/nokia-3210?sku=1GF025CPD4L02
        
             | eloisant wrote:
             | Yes you should check KaiOS phones for that.
             | 
             | Now the problem is that they're not "dumb" enough as they
             | have a web browser, youtube etc, but that can be considered
             | fine because the experience for those is so bad that it's
             | unlikely to get addicting.
        
       | pqs wrote:
       | Why not using the actual land line? I still have one. My 13 year
       | old son, who has no phone, uses it and it works. I'm just
       | curious.
        
         | frodo76 wrote:
         | TinCan owner here. The issue with landlines in my experience is
         | that they quickly become overwhelmed with spam calls. That and
         | the ability to lock down the phone to just a few numbers is the
         | appeal.
        
           | pqs wrote:
           | Mine, in Spain, is surprisingly free of spam. I receive spam
           | on my mobile phone, which is often blocked by Android, but I
           | don't receive spam on my landline. Strange, isn't it?
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | Depends on the country, but landlines are no long available for
         | new customers and the cables are actively being removed.
        
           | deltoidmaximus wrote:
           | There are still VoIP services that function essentially the
           | same. I switched to that recently because the real POTS
           | service had been jacked up in price a crazy amount, probably
           | because we were grandfathered into even having it since the
           | company website didn't even seem to offer it anymore.
        
           | pqs wrote:
           | Well, I'm sure my landline is not a landline anymore, I'm
           | sure it is some sort of VoIP system, but it doesn't matter,
           | it is a phone with a number, that doesn't leave the living
           | room.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | This sounds like a brilliant idea. But I suspect they're going to
       | wedge themselves unnecessarily in the middle to extract and
       | enshittify.
       | 
       | I don't see why these would ever need to be more than a pay once
       | product.
        
       | pino83 wrote:
       | > She said she heard about the Tin Can on a Facebook group.
       | 
       | Nice to safe the kids from that... But who will save the adults?
       | ^^
       | 
       | Yes, social media is bad for kids. You start to realize that. It
       | only took 15 years. The thing is: It's equally bad for you...
       | 
       | And you prove that every minute. Whenever you say something, and
       | after three sentences, basically every topic ends up in something
       | related to Instatoktube.
       | 
       | My only hope is that what we are currently see rising is similar
       | to what happened to alcoholism and chain smoking.
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | It's not "equally" bad for adults.
         | 
         | Just like alcohol and tobacco, it's bad for adults but way
         | worse for kids.
        
         | throwfaraway4 wrote:
         | It's way way worse for kids especially adolescents
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | Off-topic, but I hate sites like this. All links in the article
       | are for other pages on businessinsider.com, but there's no link
       | to Tin Can, not that I can find at least.
       | 
       | It's getting more and more normal that sites won't link out of
       | their own "property".
        
         | raldi wrote:
         | Especially weird in this case since it's such an over the top
         | case of Submarine Marketing.
        
           | rd wrote:
           | Submarine marketing?
        
             | raldi wrote:
             | https://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
        
         | thrance wrote:
         | Yeah, and that's especially egregious when they're presenting a
         | product, or a scientific result without linking to it.
        
       | seboapps wrote:
       | Full circle moment.
        
       | selectively wrote:
       | Smartphones are good and we shouldn't demonize them.
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | Judge the tree by its fruits. Children are showing very real
         | signs of addiction, and unlike known quantities like video
         | games, or TV in past generations, parents are being pressured
         | into handing children a device, usually completely or
         | effectively without any safety controls, a private screen with
         | which everyone in the world, every corporation, foreign
         | country, friend or foe, can pour propaganda, toxicity, lies,
         | porn, etc. directly into their brains. We should be careful
         | with this.
         | 
         | Before the smartphone did all this, no one would have come out
         | and campaigned to build a new kind of free library outside
         | every middle school where all these things were advertised and
         | made readily available to kids anonymously. We do have real
         | libraries, but they don't just automatically accept and push
         | books donated by any random company, foreign country, or random
         | pervert. Because that's an insane thing to do.
         | 
         | The burden should have been on the "smartphones are good"
         | people to prove that giving kids all that was worth the
         | downsides, or to have shown how any supposed benefits could be
         | had more safely, without requiring all parents to become
         | experienced MDM admins, which they just won't do.
        
           | selectively wrote:
           | Smartphones are good. Addiction is physical compulsion.
           | Nothing else is addiction.
           | 
           | You sound exactly like the people who were freaking out about
           | comic books and video games. Moral panic, forever repeating.
        
       | xd1936 wrote:
       | Did this exact thing for my four and six-year-old kids. I used an
       | Ooma Telo Air[1] (Free + ~$6/mo in taxes and fees) and an old
       | vTech landline phone. It's been highly successful in our house.
       | The kids have (monitored) independence to call grandparents and
       | aunts/uncles. Watching them translate written down 10-digit phone
       | numbers into button presses is fun too.
       | 
       | 1. https://www.ooma.com/home-phone-service/basic/
        
       | jpb0104 wrote:
       | Seems like there are a bunch of alternatives popping up including
       | some DIY solutions. Which is really awesome in this space. Check
       | out https://www.beanstalk.club/ I've done some work with these
       | folks. I love their bring-your-own-phone approach. There are so
       | many cool old-school phones out there, even on ebay. We've also
       | seen lots of success with Beanstalk and a simple $20 cordless
       | phone. Kids love wandering around chit-chatting. There's also a
       | ton of momentum around the https://www.waituntil8th.org/ pledge.
        
       | VladVladikoff wrote:
       | I got two DECT cordless phones for my house and tried to set up
       | RustPBX on a raspberry pi. But I got snagged because it wasn't
       | playing nicely with flowroute, and I didn't want to burden the
       | project with my complaint. I guess I'll end up using FreePBX but
       | it sucks because RustPBX really looked promising.
        
         | drewsonian wrote:
         | Check out FusionPBX or FreeSWITCH. Great options, I like them
         | better than anything Asterisk based right now.
        
       | b3lvedere wrote:
       | Fun product, but not for me. We've given the kids old iPhones
       | when they reached the age of 12 and they have been known we can
       | check anything and everything on their phone. Each and every
       | email is cc'ed to us and we log what we can (not that we actually
       | do that much).
       | 
       | We have also told the kids we are not 24/7 actively monitoring
       | them, because we woud like to trust them. Unless we think there's
       | an issue they cannot, will not or are forced not to tell us, we
       | will not intervene with their phone usually. They know we can
       | track their phones anywhere on this planet and they don't care,
       | because we are not acting as helicopter parents.
       | 
       | This has built trust between our kids and us parents. It forces
       | us as parents to start trusting the kids and the kids get the
       | freedom they want and need.
       | 
       | Is it 100% perfect? No, not by a long shot. It's a balance that
       | may be scary for parents. We talk with them about stuff like
       | doomscrolling, social media drama and privacy. They show us
       | memes, tell us about their school life and usually do not care if
       | we happen to see some private conversation on the corner of our
       | eye.
       | 
       | Do the kids make mistakes? You bet. That's part of their life. Do
       | we as parents make mistakes? Absolutely. None of the kids came
       | with a manual. :)
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | We have a voip system for the house, mainly because its one floor
       | too tall to shout up and easily be heard.
       | 
       | Each of the kids has a really old cisco voip phone (I got 8 for
       | PS35).
       | 
       | There is a quick dial menu which connects too the loft, kid1,
       | kid2, shed, living room. I also have an extension for my mobile.
       | 
       | That works for keeping everyone in touch and save a lot of "WHAT
       | DID YOU SAY?".
        
       | drewsonian wrote:
       | This concept has been amazing for my family and kids.
       | 
       | Shameless plug: I started my own service without vendor hardware
       | lock in.
       | 
       | https://chatterboxphone.com
        
         | philips wrote:
         | Oh nice! I have been working on my own too!
         | (https://havenphone.com). I was planning on the exact same
         | model and pricing as well.
         | 
         | I am curious: have you gone down the tr069 rabbit hole? If not
         | how do you plan to do endpoint management?
         | 
         | Are you using a Fanvil H2W? Too? That was my first phone
         | choice.
         | 
         | I also learned of https://www.beanstalk.club from this thread
         | as well. Looks like there are a few folks trying to do similar
         | services without the proprietary hardware and waitlists.
        
           | drewsonian wrote:
           | I'll send you a message to your support account :-)
        
         | growrow wrote:
         | No vendor or hardware lock-in is key. Can you give insight into
         | the costs that inform the monthly rate? Emergency services /
         | telephone network?
        
           | drewsonian wrote:
           | Sure thing! Behind every "unlimited" plan out there, there is
           | a per minute rate that small carriers like us have to pay in
           | order to get access to the regular phone network and connect
           | to any phone number in the world. On top of that, there's a
           | monthly cost per phone number, per E911 address registration,
           | per voice channel, etc. Then, you have the ever popular
           | "taxes and fees", which can vary based on the user's location
           | and can become complex very quickly. Not to mention FCC
           | registration fees and taxes. Then there's the cost of the
           | server infrastructure to register the phones and keep them
           | online. And finally - STIR/SHAKEN implementation has a cost
           | of registration and verification as well.
        
       | mcrowson wrote:
       | Got inspired by this and setup voip.ms and a grand stream for
       | this. Just a "landline" and the monthly costs way lower and you
       | don't have to use the crappy tin can phone.
        
       | wffurr wrote:
       | I'm missing the benefit to this over just adding on phone service
       | to my cable internet bill.
        
         | clintmcmahon wrote:
         | We've got a tin can phone and the biggest positive for us is
         | the phone can't make calls or receive calls from numbers that
         | we don't approve first. I know other parents who have the phone
         | line through the cable company that gets hammered with spam
         | calls.
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | I was going to say Nomorobo fixes this, but it's not
           | supported on most landlines anymore.
        
         | panja wrote:
         | Control over what numbers are dialed and who can dial in
        
       | clintmcmahon wrote:
       | Just got our Tin Can a few weeks ago. The hardware is "eh", but
       | the service is pretty great. The ability to approve
       | incoming/outgoing numbers before being able to call/receive calls
       | is very handy to cut out any spam calls that you'd get with a
       | normal land line.
        
       | ralferoo wrote:
       | I'm not sure if they're still available, but the PAP2T was a
       | wonderful piece of kit - just an ethernet port and 2x RJ-45 jacks
       | for old style phones. You can set up custom dial plans and use
       | any VOIP SIP provider you like. You can trivially edit the dial
       | plan to restrict certain number prefixes, and set up custom short
       | numbers - so for instance my "landline" had 81 for my mum, 82 for
       | brother, 83 for sister, etc. but you could also just dial regular
       | numbers.
       | 
       | If you run an asterisk server on your own box, you could easily
       | set up a private SIP network just for you and your kids, or your
       | kids and their friends, etc. and either run a SIP client on your
       | mobile for your use and a VOIP SIP gateway if you want your kid
       | to be able to call a friend's mobile.
       | 
       | EDIT: I just looked and the PAP2T has been discontinued, but
       | there seem to be lots of units available new from China that look
       | identical and are sold as Linksys PAP2T, and some unbranded units
       | that look the same but with blank labels. I've no idea if these
       | are fully compatible with the real PAP2T, but they might still be
       | worth trying.
        
         | jaywcarman wrote:
         | Grandstream currently has a line of Analog Telephone Adapters
         | (ATA)[1] that fit this use case.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.grandstream.com/products/gateways-and-
         | atas/analo...
        
       | psim1 wrote:
       | For three or four endpoints all within the home, you could do
       | this with just ATAs and not even need a SIP server. Many ATAs
       | have a configurable "dial plan" that will let you map a number to
       | an IP address, thus giving you the ability to call the other
       | terminals directly within the LAN.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | Do you have an ATA you like? They are all janky in different
         | ways in my experience.
        
       | jMyles wrote:
       | ...not mention of encryption.
       | 
       | Although the idea is lovely, I'm not going to encourage my kiddo
       | to chat with his buddies on a service that can hoover up their
       | imagination for later manipulation.
        
       | maherbeg wrote:
       | We actually have one of these between our group of friends and
       | their kids and it's awesome. The kids call each other to chat and
       | setup play dates or to go run around in the street. Our kids will
       | call back home to let us know they made it to the other persons
       | house, or let us know they're coming back home too.
       | 
       | The tactility is incredible, and it's so just so cute to watch
       | them chat away (5 year olds!)
        
       | saltyoldman wrote:
       | When I was 12 or so (might have been older)? I had convinced my
       | parents to buy me a lantern battery (6v) and lots of wire. I
       | connected all in series - two speakers and the battery connecting
       | my room to my brother's room. Unfortunately only I could control
       | which speaker was acting as a microphone (I had to swap the
       | battery terminals the wires were connected.)
       | 
       | I guess that was my "tin can".
        
       | pricees wrote:
       | We bought a Tincan after a company parent-erg conversation led to
       | a coworker discussing her experience with the product.
       | 
       | Is it the game changer we thought it would be? No. We thought my
       | daughter would want to call her friends as much as she wants us
       | to call their friends' parents to have them come over. We thought
       | my son would use it as much as he texts on his gizmo.
       | 
       | Having said this, they are getting experience, albeit infrequent,
       | with saying "Hello.... I love you. Goodbye."
       | 
       | And, yeah, when it rings, there is a mad-dash to pick it up.
       | There is something uniquely pre cell phone ("reminds me of the
       | 80s") about the joy and wonder of "Who could be calling me (at
       | this hour)?"
        
       | rotaryfan2024 wrote:
       | I built a DIY system like this using Asterisk, Raspberry Pi, and
       | a Grandstream ATA: https://github.com/cancio/rotary
       | 
       | I based it on the instructions provided by this Show HN post:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39801991
        
         | kleinishere wrote:
         | Thanks for linking this. What is the monthly spend? And how
         | long ago did you do it? Has it grown/stayed the same/or
         | decreased in its use?!
        
       | magiclaw wrote:
       | "If parents consent [...] we collect [...] serial number and
       | battery level [...] who called and call time and length [...] and
       | Voicemails (messages and greetings)"
       | 
       | If you're going to get this product, make sure you pay attention
       | when you set it up, and opt out if you are privacy minded.
        
       | Dan_- wrote:
       | I did this but using Twilio, a Grandstream HT802v2, and a basic
       | AT&T wall phone. Caller ID sorta works. I really tried to find a
       | phone that would make a satisfying sound when slammed down, but I
       | found that no one makes good, solid corded wallphones any longer.
       | 
       | The toughest part was figuring out which set of wires (my house
       | had like 5 lines somehow) went to that particular jack in the
       | kitchen.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | When I was a kid I remember discovering the heft of the home
         | phone came from a big chunk of metal screwed into the plastic
         | case.
         | 
         | (My family moved to cell phones so I got the opportunity to
         | disassemble the old phone.)
         | 
         | Maybe just find some washers and glue them inside your handset
         | and receiver?
        
       | alejohausner wrote:
       | I'm glad it's a push-button phone, and not a rotary phone.
       | There's a hilarious YouTube of today's teenagers tasked with
       | making a phone call on a rotary phone:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OADXNGnJok
       | 
       | The interface on a rotary phone isn't self-explanatory.
        
       | MattGrommes wrote:
       | I just watched this great mini-documentary about a local landline
       | system in Bellingham WA. Well worth a couple of minutes.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/UhVi3smmvTs?si=ow6zw_xTKo22WpLZ
       | 
       | People can call each other but also businesses have 4-digit phone
       | numbers that are shortened versions of the business name, like
       | GUIT for the guitar shop.
        
         | growrow wrote:
         | How lovely and so very Bellingham-esque! $5/mo and looks like
         | it can be used outside Bham.
         | 
         | https://telehamster.net/node/7
         | 
         | I hope these guys do well or more local options keep on popping
         | up.
        
       | neuralkoi wrote:
       | The one on their website is now $100, not $75 as per the article.
       | 
       | Surely someone can build a more privacy-friendly decentralized
       | solution?
       | 
       | It doesn't take much for Tin Can to start charging $50 / month
       | for a subscription.
        
         | Zachstr wrote:
         | I think it is mostly a supply/demand issue. Most of their
         | models are sold out, so they are trying to raise prices so that
         | only those who really, really want/need one gets one. I think
         | that they simply just mispriced the product initially. Soon
         | enough there will probably be more competition that will help
         | drive down the price.
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | > playdate
       | 
       | When I was a boy, there was no such word "playdate". What I'd do
       | is just walk or ride my bike to a friend's house and knock on the
       | door.
       | 
       | No parents involved.
        
       | jimmyjazz14 wrote:
       | We just got our kid one of those cheap prepaid "dumb" cellphones,
       | works fine and he can take it with him if needed.
        
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