[HN Gopher] GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verificati...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for
       operating system
        
       Author : CrypticShift
       Score  : 180 points
       Date   : 2026-03-22 16:28 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tomshardware.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tomshardware.com)
        
       | echelon_musk wrote:
       | How's that gonna pan out with Motorola?
        
         | estimator7292 wrote:
         | If Motorola have a problem with it, they obviously aren't the
         | right partner for Graphene.
         | 
         | Graphene obviously won't want to partner with a company that
         | immediately bends over backwards for this kind of puritanical
         | nonsense.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Motorola will obviously have a problem with violating the law
           | in several US states.
           | 
           | Like, what's unclear here? Do you seriously say that
           | corporations should just ignore laws which they don't like?
        
             | fwn wrote:
             | If shipping a specific device configuration to the US is
             | illegal, Motorola should not ship this specific device
             | configuration to the US.
             | 
             | I do not think our parent is suggesting otherwise.
             | 
             | AFAIK Motorola and GrapheneOS are not merging, they are
             | getting into a partnership. They do not have to think or do
             | exactly the same.
             | 
             | Apple can comply with both CCP and US demands at the same
             | time without a problem. I am sure Motorola can adjust their
             | services to the markets they are working in, as well.
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | Motorola is pretty much only present in US these days,
               | why would they build a product that can't be sold in
               | their primary market?
               | 
               | Demanding that OSes outright violate the law because you
               | disagree with your own elected government is pretty
               | insane.
        
               | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
               | They are not building a product that cannot be sold in
               | their primary market. They are not designing GrapheneOS
               | devices, they are improving existing devices to meet GOS
               | requirements. There will still be an OEM OS for those
               | devices. Preinstalled GOS devices can simply not be sold
               | there.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | Can't speak about other continents but Motorola
               | smartphones are at least available all over Europe so
               | your initial statement is incorrect.
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | Your arguments show a lack of the least imagination, let
               | alone simple reasoning.
               | 
               | There are countless ways to satisfy any regulation while
               | still doing whatever you actually want to do.
               | 
               | The very most obvious is simply sell the device, in the
               | affected areas, with any sort of os that meets the letter
               | of the law in that area.
               | 
               | If it's also easy for the user to install something else
               | once it becomes their property, well that's the new
               | owner's business atthat point, Motorola did their part
               | and complied with everything required.
               | 
               | No one needs to demand a company violate anything. That
               | is just a silly argument to even try to make. Calling
               | people insane for things they never said nor even implied
               | is what's insane.
        
           | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
           | Motorola wont break the law. They just wont sell preinstalled
           | devices, if preinstalled devices was even on the table for
           | 2027.
        
         | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
         | Motorola likely wont sell devices with GOS preinstalled in
         | those regions.
        
           | NotPractical wrote:
           | Wasn't most of the hype surrounding the Motorola partnership
           | based on the idea that you'd be able to get a device with
           | GrapheneOS pre-installed, boosting the legitimacy of
           | GrapheneOS as a competitor to Google Android? Sure,
           | "GrapheneOS adds several more supported devices" is cool and
           | all, but it's not nearly as exciting...
        
             | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
             | No. The bare minimum is that Motorola provides the needed
             | baseline hardware security requirements to their future
             | devices. Everything else is just a bonus. There could be
             | green-boot support and/or preinstalled devices, but thats
             | not a necessity. GOS benefits with an official hardware
             | platform, potentially early partner access to AOSP source
             | code, input on hardware and firmware decisions, and
             | Motorola benefits by potentially having GOS features,
             | better hardware security, and making tons of money from
             | alternate OS users, GOS or otherwise.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | More likely they will just add their own age widget themselves
        
       | CqtGLRGcukpy wrote:
       | GrapheneOS also posted about it on their Mastodon / Fediverse
       | account: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116261301913660830
        
       | Svoka wrote:
       | Seems like a pure virtue signaling: they don't sell or make
       | hardware. It is mandated only for pre-installed operating
       | systems, from what I understand.
        
         | crtasm wrote:
         | They've partnered with Motorola to have it preinstalled on
         | phones, this is in TFA.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Could just ship it along on an SD card with a single button
           | install you do yourself. Technically not preinstalled.
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | I'm sure noone in the legal system of California would
             | notice that trick!
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Well correct me if I'm wrong but dumb laws are usually
               | not written by people who know much shit about fuck. So
               | it's entirely possible they wouldn't.
        
               | tredre3 wrote:
               | You sound like a teenager fighting his parents.
               | "Technically you didn't say WHICH bed I had to be in by
               | midnight!!!!! I was in A bed, I followed the rules!!!!"
               | 
               | Society (mostly) works because we all agree that laws
               | have intents. The wording is crafted as best as possible,
               | and for the rest we have judges to shutdown lawyers
               | trying to be a moffkalast smart asses.
        
             | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
             | Sounds like it exposes a ton of attack surface. Better to
             | just have a card with a link to the webinstaller, probably.
        
             | idle_zealot wrote:
             | This is emblematic of a misunderstanding technologists
             | often have about the law. We try to treat it like code we
             | can exploit and hack around. But there is no compiler
             | deterministically producing outcomes. Of course, this
             | misunderstanding is often bolstered by the accurate
             | observation that lawyers and businesses find loopholes and
             | favorable interpretations that to us appear much like the
             | exploits we propose. The critical element that's often
             | missed, though, is the human one. To get away with an
             | exploit, to have the case law updated to reflect your
             | favorable interpretation, you need power, influence, and
             | alignment on your interests. There are tax "loopholes" now
             | that are commonly used but in a prior era, under the same
             | laws, would have seen you dragged into court and
             | eviscerated. If you tried your cute SD card trick a judge
             | would tear you a new one. If _Microsoft_ tried it, they
             | could maybe talk to the right people before the case and
             | come to an understanding that this little loophole was
             | convenient for dev devices or something, and convince a
             | judge to rule that they could do it, but only if
             | accompanied by some external age confirmation they could
             | self-attest to, with some wording that makes it clear that
             | the trick is only usable by large and well-respected
             | institutions. The law is not an impartial arbiter that you
             | can outsmart. It 's the enforcement mechanism for multiple
             | tiers or rules that bind different classes. This age
             | gathering law is a classic moat law. It exists to prevent
             | outgroups from shipping software that's incompatible with
             | this age communication system, and in a business-to-
             | business context serves to establish obligations between
             | ingroup members. Any other clever interpretation of the law
             | will be discarded regardless of specific wording.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Right, my bad. It's easy to forget our society is a
               | convoluted backroom quid pro quo even if we pretend
               | otherwise on paper.
        
           | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
           | Preinstalled devices is not the main goal of the partnership.
           | GOS is ok without having that to start. Motorolas stock OS
           | will still be available.
        
             | fph wrote:
             | Let me add that the typical GrapheneOS user will probably
             | prefer to install the OS themselves rather than trust what
             | comes preinstalled.
        
               | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
               | The typical GOS user generally doesnt want to do that.
               | Flashing is a hurdle that increases barrier for entry.
               | Reducing or eliminating that burden is ideal. Greenboot
               | support would make flashing a little easier.
        
         | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
         | Its a statement for the future. They arent bound to add this
         | now but they could be in the future. They will adapt
         | accordingly to avoid it.
        
         | razingeden wrote:
         | Virtue signal away. I'm with whatever device and OS purveyors
         | are willing to tell these tyrants to get stuffed.
         | 
         | I haven't cut over to it completely yet but I think this'll be
         | the last nail in the coffin for my time as an Apple user. It's
         | already a loveless marriage , it's already over, I'm already
         | sleeping with GrapheneOS on the side. it's asking when I'm
         | going to leave her and it's always "soon, baby. soon."
        
         | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
         | As they should, I was personally surprised so many people were
         | surprised come ICE raids that government can buy and track
         | location via apps, advertising and your phone in general.
         | Regular people need an idea, who is.. uhh.. less likely to sell
         | them down the river.
        
       | OutOfHere wrote:
       | I think that malicious compliance all the way might have been the
       | better option here. If a birth date is all that is needed, let
       | the user enter a random one. If actual biometric verification is
       | needed alongside, let the user also paste the code to a fake
       | biometric validator that always returns valid.
       | 
       | It is the same philosophy as with an app that forcibly wants an
       | invasive permission to the detriment of the user. Let the app
       | have the permission while in a sandbox so it sees nothing.
        
         | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
         | Giving in in any capacity is unacceptable. The GrapheneOS
         | foundation is based in Canada and is not obligated to record
         | this information, so they wont. They have no reason to comply,
         | be it malicious or otherwise.
        
           | mmooss wrote:
           | They are not on an island; they need to function in society.
           | If they want people outside Canada to use GrapheneOS, then
           | they need to comply with local laws.
           | 
           | Maybe they don't care about that. Maybe they just want to
           | make a secure phone OS, as a sort of hobby, and don't care if
           | anyone uses it but themselves. That's ok too.
        
             | applfanboysbgon wrote:
             | If you want a privacy-violating OS, there are already two
             | big options on the market. A secure OS for people who do
             | not live in authoritarian surveillance states offers a
             | benefit to some people, even if not all people. A third
             | privacy-violating OS offers no value to anyone anywhere in
             | the world.
        
             | snackbroken wrote:
             | People who live in authoritarian states like North Korea or
             | California can (and arguably should) ignore the fact that
             | GrapheneOS is illegal where they live and use it anyway.
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | As they stated "If GrapheneOS devices can't be sold in a
             | region due to their regulations, so be it."
        
           | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
           | Agreed. This is one of those moments you might as well simply
           | say no. For practical reasons too, your users do have options
           | and tend to be the kind that will drop a distribution if it
           | goes rogue.
        
         | endofreach wrote:
         | Agree. I didn't even think of that. Embarrassing. Your approach
         | might have been the best option.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | You'd need to closely read the law and have a lawyer advise
         | you, but a neat attempt might be to just ask for the date of
         | birth, send that "in real time" to the App Store program, and
         | then have that program simply discard it?
         | 
         | I don't think current iterations of the law require that this
         | be sent off-device in any way.
        
           | Polizeiposaune wrote:
           | The second requirement of the California law is that there be
           | an API available to all apps that returns the age band a user
           | is in -- one of:
           | 
           | age < 13
           | 
           | age >= 13 && age < 16
           | 
           | age >= 16 && age < 18
           | 
           | age >= 18
           | 
           | A non-maliciously compliant implementation would need to
           | retain a date of birth or equivalent until the user was over
           | 18.
           | 
           | A maliciously compliant API could just wait 18 years after
           | account creation before yielding an answer. (remember folks:
           | "real time" does not mean "fast").
           | 
           | One of the oddities about the way the law is phrased is that
           | it requires the age band information about the user be
           | provided to "the developer" rather than to the application.
        
             | ErroneousBosh wrote:
             | > The second requirement of the California law is that
             | there be an API available to all apps that returns the age
             | band a user is in -- one of:
             | 
             | Is anyone actually going to bother to do this though? Why
             | would they?
        
         | Polizeiposaune wrote:
         | Asking the device owner for the user's birth date is precisely
         | what the (California) law requires.
         | 
         | Biometrics are not required.
         | 
         | The concept appears to be that a parent or guardian could enter
         | the birth date before turning the device over to a child.
         | 
         | Malicious compliance would be providing this age bracket API:
         | 
         | boolean is_user_over_18() { sleep (18 * 365.25 * 86400); return
         | true; }
         | 
         | This is a real-time interface (as required by the law) that
         | takes 18 years to complete. (Remember: "Real-time" does not
         | mean "fast").
        
           | OutOfHere wrote:
           | The New York bill specifies a biometric requirement.
        
           | ErroneousBosh wrote:
           | > Asking the device owner for the user's birth date is
           | precisely what the (California) law requires.
           | 
           | Why would anybody bother to implement that?
        
       | mmooss wrote:
       | The GrapheneOS Mastodon post says,
       | 
       | "GrapheneOS will remain usable by anyone around the world without
       | requiring personal information, identification or an account."
       | 
       | https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116261301913660830
       | 
       | That raises the issues that GrapheneOS needs to solve, which may
       | require more creativity than bold, somtimes combative statements.
       | 
       | If GrapheneOS doesn't comply with laws and regulations then they
       | will sometimes be banned or restricted. If that happens, they may
       | not be "usable by anyone around the world" for long.
       | 
       | That doesn't mean they have to capitulate or sacrifice security.
       | They can find creative solutions, some of which are suggested
       | here. The first step is to carefully read the spec to determine
       | what is necessary, then talk to someone like the EFF, and find a
       | way forward.
        
         | notrealyme123 wrote:
         | The problem is the spirit of the law, not the word.
        
         | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
         | They wont break the law, they will just move to where there are
         | no such regulations. This isnt a promise to violate laws.
        
       | nout wrote:
       | In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the
       | system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who
       | you voted for...
        
         | joe_mamba wrote:
         | Western tech direction in the last 5 years:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL-r8deB5o
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | If you think that's bad, just wait till you see eastern tech.
        
             | haolez wrote:
             | That's an interesting topic. Please, elaborate.
        
               | joe_mamba wrote:
               | Western surveillance tech is superior because it gives
               | you the option to choose your gender on a fluid scale
               | when they're vacuuming your private data, whereas
               | backwards eastern tech limits you to only male or female.
        
               | nout wrote:
               | What about not asking for gender when gender is
               | completely irrelevant to the thing that the user is
               | trying to do?
        
               | joe_mamba wrote:
               | But how would the government know who's writing mean
               | comments against them online without detailed
               | surveillance?
        
         | Muromec wrote:
         | Finally we can set the evil bit correctly on a kernel level.
        
         | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
         | That is ok. The writing was on the wall for a while. It is time
         | to let it go. It served its purpose. We might as well start
         | mapping out a way without it in a more serious way out of sheer
         | necessity. I know I am.
        
         | alexdns wrote:
         | it was reverted ?
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | Someone tried to gaslight the maintainers into reverting it
           | and was rejected.
        
         | crimsonnoodle58 wrote:
         | Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as
         | core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones.
         | 
         | If someone wants to introduce an age-verification-ca-module,
         | fine, but not make it core. Yes I understand systemd is not the
         | kernel, but its ubiquitous enough.
         | 
         | That just says to every country around the world; Windows, Mac,
         | and even Linux is on board too, let's make it law also!
         | 
         | I dunno, I always expected Linux to be the last bastion of
         | freedom and not to capitulate so easily.
        
           | wormius wrote:
           | Systemd has always rubbed me the wrong way, and its uptake
           | across all the base distros turns me off, but at least...
           | 
           | https://nosystemd.org/
           | 
           | There are still distros without it, I may have to go to one,
           | since I already jumped Win10 to Cachy for the BS MS is
           | pulling. I was going to go systemd-free but Cachy "just
           | worked" compared to the others in terms of setup. So I stuck
           | with it.
           | 
           | I wish Lennart would just stop already.
        
           | handoflixue wrote:
           | > Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this
           | as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones.
           | 
           | 1) It's legally required to sell computers with that OS in
           | certain jurisdictions
           | 
           | 2) I presume there is at least one person actually selling
           | said
           | 
           | 3) The feature is so trivially easy to bypass that it
           | presents no reasonable privacy threat at this time (IIRC,
           | it's just a numeric field with no validation?)
        
           | dathinab wrote:
           | > Why?
           | 
           | it's maintained by companies
           | 
           | they have to comply with law
           | 
           | that they are mostly US companies doesn't exactly help either
        
         | drnick1 wrote:
         | I don't see what prevents anyone (e.g., a distro maintainer)
         | from patching that anti-feature out of the source or disabling
         | with with root access. As long as people can control the
         | software running on their machines, which is the idea behind
         | Linux, nothing that people don't actually want will stay in the
         | system.
         | 
         | Systemd shouldn't be foisting this nonsense on Linux users
         | however. I suppose the anti-systemd subset of the Linux
         | community was proven right after all, this is the kind of issue
         | that can end up facing when a huge piece of opinionated
         | software like systemd more or less becomes an indispensable
         | part of Linux.
        
       | endofreach wrote:
       | I know it's gonna be a very unpopular opinion. I do like,
       | appreciate, respect & admire that they are ready to die on a
       | hill. I just don't think it's the right hill. I do not have an
       | issue with the legality of it. Rather I think age verification is
       | actually not bad. Sure i see the potential danger. But there is
       | potential benefits, that'd counter the danger, by a lot.
       | 
       | In different times, i might have argued differently. I'm not
       | saying it's not worth protecting the world you deem worthy of
       | protection. But no matter what that world is to any of you. The
       | one we all share is changing for sure. Uncontrollably fast. And
       | many things are gonna change. And many things won't matter that
       | much anymore, if we actually end up going where we're headed.
       | 
       | I mean a this is just a super small part of it all, but i assume
       | in this specific case, for graphene, it's a battle for privacy...
       | and they're right. But we're still going into a future where we
       | got 5,10,20,30 more years of "AI", even just keeping the same
       | level of overall sophistication for most, but costs decreasing
       | immensely... I don't know about you, but I don't think the ways
       | we protect our privacy can be unaffected, already because we're
       | going to learn all new aspects about which data is private. Just
       | out of practicality. Extreme example: but if generating hundreds
       | of obscene deepfakes of any person as easily as taking a photo
       | with your iPhone... ah, i can't keep having this discussion, i
       | hope i am just an insane moron who is wrong. But, just to be
       | sure: instead of arguing if we should close the windows on the
       | train that's burning, or leave them open, as some are smart and
       | others need help, let's just get off the fucking train.
       | 
       | And yes of course. One might argue (I actually would), we should
       | not start implementing laws like that or start making personal
       | information a requirement to digital access.
       | 
       | But this might be the first step to a different future, or not.
       | As i said, who cares where the train is headed. It's burning and
       | nobody even really wants to be on it. Let's please get off the
       | train.
       | 
       | Not saying the battle is lost. I have tried working on something
       | because I still have great hope. But someone seriously must act.
       | I tried, getting off the train. Or at least start standing up
       | from my seat. Realizing it's not that easy to get off. It's
       | embarrassing, but i can't even get off the train by myself... i
       | tried anyway... but here i am, sitting again (currently on the
       | floor, lost my seat, damn...)... i have been building something
       | for the past 2 years. Well, trying to build something, an attempt
       | to change course... ruining my life over it. And currently i
       | failed, before i even got to a point where my prototype or any of
       | the theoretical work even remotely represents the vision. But
       | maybe i just learned, i was wrong about all of it. I hope i'll
       | make it back being able to afford working on it and someday a way
       | to make enough money to pay smarter people than me to join. But
       | currently, it's insane for me for me to even dare dreaming about
       | that. I have really dug myself a hole. Next time, it should at
       | least be a hill...
       | 
       | So in the meantime: can people like the dudes & dudinas from
       | graphene please chose a wiser battle. If just some of all these
       | people got together & worked on getting off the train, instead of
       | working on things that seem meaningful now, but wouldn't even be
       | considered worthy of being mentioned in the future... we'd have a
       | shot.
       | 
       | Damn. I still just can't accept it, even though i've literally
       | lost everything believing that. And i am ashamed so deeply
       | believing in what i saw, and in friendly moments still see, as a
       | future... thinking i could change it, without changing myself...
       | but please god, in the end, let me not have been just bonkers,
       | but convicted.
       | 
       | (As if that, would be, any different).
        
         | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
         | I appreciate the thought, but I personally disagree having seen
         | the patterns of the past 2-3 decades. There is zero real
         | benefit to it save powers that be. Honestly, the only
         | reasonable move forward is non-compliance. Everything else
         | results in steady inching towards full blown panopticon ( and
         | some would argue that we are already there ).
        
         | HybridStatAnim8 wrote:
         | GOS is not going to compromise on user privacy and security.
         | This is not a technical problem, it is a social one where
         | parents refuse to do what they should have done from the start.
         | The internet is not for kids. Presuming users to be guilty
         | until proven innocent is unacceptable. Making mechanisms to
         | obtain user data, even if it is completely and perfectly
         | functional and achieves what it sets out to do, risks malicious
         | parties obtaining that information. The only way to win the
         | game is not to play, to not ever provide that data, and
         | children shouldnt be playing the gane in the first place.
        
       | stego-tech wrote:
       | Good on them. Devices shouldn't collect any extraneous data by
       | default other than that needed to fulfill a feature a user
       | consciously selects, and that includes this stupid age
       | verification spyware regimes are pushing.
       | 
       | An adult had to pay for the ISP connection; that's the extent of
       | age verification needed. We shouldn't be demanding adults expose
       | their identities to for-profit entities and surveillance states,
       | so much as mandating for-profit companies make parental controls
       | easier to use, more effective, and stopping them from harvesting
       | data on kids in the first place.
       | 
       | Not every corner of the universe needs to be baby-proofed; we
       | just need to build a society where parents are enabled and
       | supported to be parents, rather than outsourcing such a critical
       | role to strangers and/or devices so they can get back to work.
        
         | pxeboot wrote:
         | > An adult had to pay for the ISP connection
         | 
         | In many countries, it is still possible to buy a prepaid SIM
         | without any ID.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | Apps requesting an age is not extraneous and there are many
         | legal and safety reasons why an app may collect this
         | information. If the operating system doesn't do it you run into
         | the cookie banner situation where every individual site has to
         | implement a dialog box asking the user instead of there being a
         | standardized way to do it.
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | > An adult had to pay for the ISP connection
         | 
         | Ever heard of free wifi?
        
       | nothrowaways wrote:
       | Apple should be championing this.
        
       | DebtDeflation wrote:
       | Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. Most
       | households aren't going to have a separate device for every
       | family member and so you will end up with a tablet or computer
       | set up by one of the parents (and thus having their age stored)
       | that will be used by both parents and children. Likewise, people
       | generally won't create a separate account for every potential
       | user.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | What are you talking about, most households give personal
         | phones to their children, especially teenagers.
         | 
         | Laptops aren't rare either.
        
           | bradfa wrote:
           | I suspect there's quite a difference between what most people
           | do and what most HN commenters do.
        
             | dathinab wrote:
             | I frequently see comments which would have made sense in
             | the past (e.g. early 2000th) but kinda aren't fully
             | reflecting reality anymore
             | 
             | it's as if humans have a tendency to make up their
             | mind/world view in their younger years and then tend to
             | kinda stick with it/only change it slowly as long as no big
             | live changing events happen
        
           | zamalek wrote:
           | Give the kid a device that is age-controlled. No need for all
           | devices to support it.
        
             | pas wrote:
             | the law is there because parents are fucking clueless
             | unprincipled whining crybabies, who need a lot of support,
             | and sometimes that includes a bit of pushing ...
             | 
             | or who knows what problem is this supposed to fix. orphans
             | buying phones? kids buying secret phones behind their
             | parents back?
        
         | dathinab wrote:
         | > Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me.
         | 
         | it's the only form of "age verification" which can be done in a
         | somewhat privacy respecting way (as in at most leak the age)
         | 
         | the idea is to "bounce back" the "is old enough" decision to
         | parent controls and let the parent choose (the Californian law
         | doesn't quite do that perfectly, but goes into that direction)
         | 
         | and if you sell what is more or less a general purpose
         | compute/internet access device with OS (which I do include
         | phones into) I think it's very reasonable to either sell it to
         | adults only (with a disclaimer it's "not for children") or
         | include proper parent controls
         | 
         | > Most households aren't going to have a separate device for
         | every family member
         | 
         | in current times in the west it is very very common for many
         | devices to be for one person only. Especially phones, or at
         | least have different (OS) accounts.
         | 
         | but again this comes back to "parent controls", weather that is
         | for a child (OS) account or a way to switch from a child
         | profile to a adult profile doesn't matter
         | 
         | but in the end, the point of such laws should be to give
         | parents tools to parent. As well as handling the case of parent
         | acting in neglect by inaction. But if a parent intentional
         | decides to give their children a device with their profile
         | because they think it's fine than that should be their choice
         | and responsibility.
         | 
         | > Likewise, people generally won't create a separate account
         | for every potential user.
         | 
         | where it was possible I have not seen it not used, weather it's
         | on a switch, gaming console or PC. It is the most convenient
         | way of automatically separates logins, browsing history, game
         | safes etc.
         | 
         | and the law als isn't made for that shared computer in the
         | living room (through it will apply there). It's more about the
         | devices children might use unsupervised, e.g. their phone.
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | This is absolutely the right stance to take against such stupid
       | mandates.
        
       | cadamsdotcom wrote:
       | This is excellent; silly laws on the books should exclude
       | countries from access to things.
       | 
       | Unfortunately it's not enough because there's also a need to work
       | to get the laws repealed AND stop the endless attempts to bring
       | them back.
        
       | arbirk wrote:
       | We are back to printing books, boys
        
       | idatum wrote:
       | Can someone catch me up how FB et al are not the ones responsible
       | for age verification?
       | 
       | Is it lack of something similar to PKI for identify verification?
        
         | whynotmaybe wrote:
         | If we go back a few years and analyze the porn magazines that
         | are sold in a gas station, it's not up to the magazine to
         | ensure that the "reader" has the legal age.
         | 
         | So we delegated the responsibility twice, first the gas station
         | attendant must check the age of the buyer and then, the buyer
         | should check the age of any reader.
         | 
         | So now, who's the "gas station attendant" in our situation?
        
         | pas wrote:
         | because there are other sites/apps online too, and it's better
         | to decouple the "obtaining the verification" and the
         | "presenting the verification"
         | 
         | and if sites and apps don't need to be in the loop for this
         | they can't end up leaking all over the 'net
        
       | hereme888 wrote:
       | so... just sell a phone with a script prompts the user to install
       | the OS, and it auto-verifies hashes, can't be bypassed, etc. Is
       | that too simplistic a solution?
        
       | h4kunamata wrote:
       | We expected no less from GOS project.
       | 
       | systemd which was already in hot water over because the problems
       | it creates over service, this was the last drop to get folks
       | dropping systemct altogether.
        
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