[HN Gopher] MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of governmen...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to
       UK security
        
       Author : vrganj
       Score  : 558 points
       Date   : 2026-03-16 11:57 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thenerve.news)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thenerve.news)
        
       | cjs_ac wrote:
       | TIL that the head of Palantir's UK arm is the grandson of Sir
       | Oswald Mosley, founder and leader of the British Union of
       | Fascists in the 1930s.
        
         | GaryBluto wrote:
         | Sins of the father are not sins of the (grand)son.
        
           | stephc_int13 wrote:
           | Of course, but this lineage should indeed encourage some
           | scrutiny.
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | Especially as multiple people in his family have had
             | fascist sympathies.
             | 
             | Given his ancestry wearing a black shirt for a TV interview
             | was pretty bad judgement.
        
               | persedes wrote:
               | If it quacks like a duck...?
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | To an extent, but with caution and charity. A lot of
               | exceptionally good people have come from bad families -
               | one of the Borgias was a saint, for example. A lot of
               | exceptionally nasty people seem to have perfectly nice
               | families.
               | 
               | Of course sometimes people who are, for example, brought
               | up to be racist, are racist.
        
           | nisegami wrote:
           | Of course not, the grandson is hard at work on his own sins.
        
             | GaryBluto wrote:
             | My point exactly.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | You'd be surprised how often the beliefs of the
           | father/grandfather are those of the son/grandson, not to
           | mention how often they feel the need to avenge for the
           | perceived injustices or slights done to their parents
        
           | e2le wrote:
           | Given the history of his family, one would expect them to
           | avoid risque associations and activities. I think it deserves
           | some scrutiny.
        
         | SanjayMehta wrote:
         | He's in good company.
         | 
         | MI6 head is Blaise Metreweli whose grandfather was Constantine
         | Dobrowolski, the Nazis' chief informant in Chernihiv, Ukraine.
        
         | penguin_booze wrote:
         | Apples don't usually fall that far from the tree.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | ... I'm sorry, what?
         | 
         | If this was a political drama, that would be written out on the
         | basis that it wasn't believable.
        
       | padolsey wrote:
       | Can anyone familiar with the technology help disillusion naive
       | people like me as to why on earth palantir needs to exist? It
       | feels like a big pile of nothing. But tbf that's how I feel about
       | Salesforce and Jira too. Big fat database schemas with big fat
       | CRUD atop and layers of snazzy sparklines to make PMs and clients
       | feel nurtured and fuzzy that they've done something material.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | Why does Palantir specifically need to exist? To funnel those
         | juicy government budgets into shareholders' pockets.
         | 
         | Why does anyone bother to use them? Because they have
         | convincing marketing (which may or may not include buttering
         | government palms with, um, "incentives" ...)
         | 
         | Occam's razor: It's a big pile of "list of things being handled
         | by an outside entity so I neither have to think about it, nor
         | hire for them."
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | If Palantir wasn't highly effective at aggregating data no
           | one would care about the. They are considered a threat to
           | privacy and freedom because they are a good product
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | That's part of it, but not the whole story. If Palantir
             | were a book, explaining how to implement data aggregation
             | systems effectively, people wouldn't be so wary of it.
             | (Critics would still criticise that data aggregation was
             | performed in the first place, of course, but there wouldn't
             | be the additional "and it's Palantir".)
        
         | gonzo41 wrote:
         | They have magic consultant power mode.
         | 
         | In government you have to deliver, most of the time the mode of
         | delivery is boring, small, conservative, and disjointed from
         | other government groups because large efforts of work attract
         | big budgets, oversight and doubt.
         | 
         | Consultants are magic, because they come with no baggage and
         | promise the world. They take you hostage with sunk cost fallacy
         | and then after years they deliver something.
         | 
         | At the end you're so tired you think that what they did was
         | beyond your government agency and the cycle continues.
        
         | Eridrus wrote:
         | Companies need databases lol.
         | 
         | I don't know how you think a b2b company could run sales
         | without a CRM like Salesforce.
         | 
         | To give your question a generous interpretation, Salesforce is
         | more valuable than Apptio or your home grown CRM because it
         | already has all the features any sales org needs, and all the
         | fragmented sales and marketing tooling are already integrated
         | with it.
         | 
         | And Sales is a very expensive and also high ROI activity. You
         | don't want your sales team hung up trying to figure out how to
         | get the random CRM to do something. You're not looking to cut
         | costs in this area, you're looking to enhance the overall
         | productivity of the org. Sales tooling overall is very
         | expensive for this reason, any marginal edge is worth a lot.
         | 
         | It's also worth noting that a big value of things like
         | Salesforce is that it lets management check up on what people
         | are doing, because as much as HN doesn't like to admit it,
         | people are often not very careful or diligent, and you need to
         | perform supervision on the vast majority of people to improve
         | their performance.
         | 
         | Jira is similar, in that eng is very expensive, and its
         | probably better than what these companies were doing
         | beforehand, even if it is suboptimal.
        
           | threetonesun wrote:
           | It's true, literally no b2b sales companies existed before
           | Salesforce. We must all continue to pay for Salesforce and
           | support its workflows for now until the endless future, lest
           | b2b sales vanish again.
        
         | oncallthrow wrote:
         | Palantir's product is light years ahead of anything any
         | government IT project has ever, and in my opinion can ever,
         | deliver. They're not even in the same league.
        
           | stuaxo wrote:
           | Seems unlikely. I've seen teams at GDS + teams based on the
           | GDS way of working in other UK gov departments solve some
           | really knarly problems.
        
             | Tinkeringz wrote:
             | Counter to that I've seen a PS37m contract for a form on
             | gov uk with absolutely no change in process, just going
             | from a letter received to a online form
        
             | crimsoneer wrote:
             | They most definitely won't spend time on military bases
             | though, whereas Palantir devs will essentially live there.
        
             | dgroshev wrote:
             | GDS is amazing. However, unless we double/triple the GDS
             | salary grades, it'll inevitably be hollowed out. From what
             | I heard, that might've already happened.
             | 
             | Look for yourself, GDS is hiring a "Lead Technical
             | Architect" for PS67,126-PS91,453
             | https://gds.blog.gov.uk/jobs/ . FAANG (and Palantir) pays
             | up to triple that. How can GDS compete for talent?
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | They've reworked some planning and a reduced the waiting
           | list, slightly. Not exactly worth the money (and letting them
           | have ALL of our data).
        
           | rithdmc wrote:
           | iOS is light years ahead of anything any government IT
           | project has ever, and in my opinion can ever, deliver.
           | They're not even in the same league.
           | 
           | I hope you can see why that's a nonsensical statement.
           | Palantir is a private intelligence company.
        
           | LightBug1 wrote:
           | Horseshit, mate ... basically just pumped up database
           | software aided and abetted by "consultants" parachuted into
           | the client org ... like the industry has been doing since the
           | 80's ...
           | 
           | Edit: I found the following on Glassdoor and, while I don't
           | know the poster personally, it pretty much sums it up:
           | 
           | "If you are in Business Development (BD) - i.e. Delta or Echo
           | - this job will be your life. They deliberately underhire -
           | they claim it's to maintain the culture, but really it's to
           | squeeze every ounce of productivity out of you. You are
           | thrown into chaotic situations with no way out but to "chew
           | glass and excrete product". Don't let the flat heirarchy and
           | encouragement of confrontation / open debate deceive you.
           | Karp has majority founder shares and calls the shots. The
           | company is a dictatorship, not a democracy. Resourcing is a
           | black box. If you are a U.S person without a clearance, you
           | will be bait-and-switched into defense even if you thought
           | you could avoid it. With clearance, you'll end up on
           | something much worse. Trust your gut - the company's
           | leadership are not wise, nuanced philosophers - they are
           | spineless, shifty edgelords with no ethical red lines. As a
           | FDE, you will spend half your time working around stupid
           | limitations in the platform you could not foresee when making
           | grand promises to the customer. Foundry is not a cutting edge
           | product, just like Microsoft Suite is not a cutting edge
           | product. Its just too broad for any other company to easily
           | copy it. Palantir just brought middle-of-the-road Silicon
           | valley tech to old-school government, slapped some AI
           | integration onto it and shrouded it in a veil of mystery to
           | make it seem cool and mysterious and appeal to retail
           | investors."
        
           | Angostura wrote:
           | > light years ahead of anything any government IT project has
           | ever,
           | 
           | But specifically in terms of what?
        
         | angiolillo wrote:
         | Plenty of companies don't "need to exist". A company exists
         | because someone decided to start it (usually to make some
         | money) and lasts until someone decides to end it (usually when
         | it stops making money).
         | 
         | If you're asking why Palantir (and Salesforce, Jira, etc)
         | continue to make money despite not having any novel or complex
         | technologies, my experience has been that these are not
         | prerequisites for solving the vast majority of business
         | problems. Usually network effects, customer relationships,
         | brand identity, user interface, inertia, etc are all more
         | important than the technology.
         | 
         | It is not always easy for a technologist to admit, but
         | companies whose ongoing success is primarily due to some sort
         | of (non-UX) technological superiority are the exception rather
         | than the rule.
        
           | readitalready wrote:
           | This discounts the value of user experience, which people
           | will pay a premium for.
           | 
           | A good design is valuable, and this applies to business
           | processes as well.
           | 
           | How would you design the user experience of constructing a
           | submarine?
           | 
           | Good design IS technological superiority.
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | > This discounts the value of user experience, which people
             | will pay a premium for.
             | 
             | The people making purchasing decisions at this level aren't
             | the ones using it and don't care one whit about UX.
             | 
             | That isn't to say that it isn't valuable, but it's
             | basically a non-factor. The technology itself is a non-
             | factor. Everything is about connections, buzz words and
             | pretty slide decks.
        
               | readitalready wrote:
               | They literally do, since the people making purchasing
               | decisions are usually the ones that ranked up through a
               | system they used and know the intricacies of, including
               | all the pain points.
               | 
               | Randos don't become general managers.
        
               | krupan wrote:
               | People who actually care about the day to day pain points
               | of jira also do not become general managers
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | > This discounts the value of user experience, which people
             | will pay a premium for.
             | 
             | Have you ever used jira? They are very much not selling
             | that thing on the basis of UX.
        
         | krona wrote:
         | They're just a systems integrator with extra marketing full of
         | empty promises. Think IBM, but less shit.
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | Like how Tableau is a great UI for grammar of graphics,
         | Palantir is a great UI for ontological expert systems.
         | Technically you could do everything without it but
         | organizations and especially government typically don't
         | cultivate that level of expertise in their staff.
         | 
         | In my view expert systems typically failed because the
         | organizations would degrade bureaucratically faster than any
         | expert system could accommodate. With AI there isn't a pre-
         | requisite need for organizational expertise so the tooling will
         | still work in largely dysfunctional orgs which is a property
         | that did not previously exist. With the help of AI people who
         | don't understand ontologies can still successfully build one.
         | 
         | Separately it is my opinion that Palantir is a CIA cut-out for
         | the Peter Thiel faction. So paying Palantir is like paying
         | tribute to that particular faction. Similar to how other large
         | military purchases are less about the military hardware and
         | more of a client state subscription to 'align interests' such
         | that the US is more likely to act in the donor countries
         | interest.
        
           | generic92034 wrote:
           | > Similar to how other large military purchases are less
           | about the military hardware and more of a client state
           | subscription to 'align interests' such that the US is more
           | likely to act in the donor countries interest.
           | 
           | I have a feeling this is no longer a viable model. If
           | "subscribers" get threatened every other day, they will be
           | looking for alternatives.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | > they will be looking for alternatives.
             | 
             | Who do "they" as in Europe go to?
             | 
             | China also views the EU as a junior partner [0], is running
             | an ongoing disinfo campaign against the industrial exports
             | of an EU member state [1], and has doubled down on it's
             | support for Russia [2] in Ukraine in return for Russia
             | backing China's claim on Taiwan [3].
             | 
             | And the EU is uninterested in building domestic capacity
             | for most critical technologies.
             | 
             | Heck, last week [4] the EU excluded AI, Quantum,
             | Semiconductors, and other technologies from the Industrial
             | Accelerator Act (aka the "Made in EU" act) in order to
             | concentrate on automotive and "net-zero" technologies.
             | 
             | Given that Chinese technology imports are already under the
             | radar in the EU due to the Ukraine war, this is basically
             | the EU creating a carveout for the US.
             | 
             | Even the major European Telecom and Space companies like
             | Eutelsat, Deutsche Telekom, and Telefonica bluntly stated
             | that they view the EU's digital sovereignity strategy as
             | dead in the water [5] in it's current form.
             | 
             | Edit: can't reply
             | 
             | > They/we will go to domestic producers as much as
             | possible, then China, then US, then rest of the world in
             | that order. At least that would make a rational approach
             | since (for now) unique things like f-35 can become an
             | expensive paperweight on a whim of a lonely sick man. You
             | can't build any sort of defense strategy on that, can you
             | 
             | But as I clearly showed, the EU is doing otherwise.
             | 
             | And the EU cannot work with China as long as China backs
             | Russia and undermines European industrial exports.
             | 
             | All the rhetoric about digital sovereignity and domestic
             | capacity has been just that - rhetoric.
             | 
             | [0] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/
             | page.ht...
             | 
             | [1] - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-
             | analyses-froi...
             | 
             | [2] - https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-
             | commentary/2025-01-...
             | 
             | [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-
             | chinas-wa...
             | 
             | [4] - https://www.sdxcentral.com/news/eu-axes-ai-chips-and-
             | quantum...
             | 
             | [5] - https://www.sdxcentral.com/news/europes-digital-
             | sovereignty-...
        
               | kakacik wrote:
               | They/we will go to domestic producers as much as
               | possible, then China, then US, then rest of the world in
               | that order. At least that would make a rational approach
               | since (for now) unique things like f-35 can become an
               | expensive paperweight on a whim of a lonely sick man. You
               | can't build any sort of defense strategy on that, can
               | you.
        
               | generic92034 wrote:
               | > And the EU cannot work with China as long as China
               | backs Russia and undermines European industrial exports.
               | 
               | I mean, that is not that huge a difference compared to
               | the USA (lifting sanctions against Russia, no tariffs
               | there either, but plenty tariffs for "allies";
               | threatening NATO members in several ways; taking over
               | Russia's "peace" plans for Ukraine 1:1 and putting the
               | pressure solely on Ukraine; (I could go on for pages)).
               | 
               | I am not sure Americans really understand how much trust
               | is already gone.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > that is not that huge a difference compared to the USA
               | 
               | It is for the EU.
               | 
               | The EU dislikes the current deprioritization of the
               | Ukraine Conflict by the US, but _also_ recognizes that
               | the PRC is directly providing material support and
               | subsidizing Russia 's military industrial complex [0].
               | That is the red line for much of the EU.
               | 
               | Similarly, for the PRC it's continued support of Russia
               | in their war in Ukraine is _also_ a non-negotiatable [1],
               | and the CCP 's foreign mouthpieces continue to reiterate
               | that "the mainstay of EU foreign policy -- supporting
               | Ukraine in a conflict to defeat Russia -- has turned into
               | a quagmire of sunk costs with little hope of success"
               | [2].
               | 
               | > I am not sure Americans really understand how much
               | trust is already gone
               | 
               | We know. And we don't care.
               | 
               | As long as the EU views Ukraine's territorial integrity
               | as non-negotiable and a large portion of EU states view
               | Russia as the primary national security threat, the US
               | will remain the less bad option than the PRC or Russia.
               | 
               | Both the US and China are aligned in that we view the EU
               | as a junior party that can be pressured [3].
               | 
               | If the EU views Russia as a threat, it will have to
               | accept American vassalage becuase the PRC will continue
               | to back Russia [1].
               | 
               | If the EU views America as a threat, it will have to
               | accept Chinese vassalage, give up Ukraine, and accept
               | Russia as the primary European military power.
               | 
               | Based on the carveouts within the Industrial Acceleration
               | Act, the EU has chosen American vassalage.
               | 
               | [0] - https://ecfr.eu/article/funding-war-courting-
               | crisis-why-chin...
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3
               | 316875/ch...
               | 
               | [2] - https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202603/16/WS69b7
               | f2e2a310d...
               | 
               | [3] - https://www.economist.com/china/2025/11/17/europe-
               | sees-china...
        
               | generic92034 wrote:
               | Very bold words. I am not even convinced the USA will
               | stay relevant on the world stage, in the long run.
               | Cutting ties hurts, but the process is underway. Also,
               | "vassalage" is a bold word, if the US cannot make the EU
               | give up Greenland or come running to help them in the
               | Strait of Hormuz (there are also other examples). It is
               | almost as if European politicians are playing it smart.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | And my question is - are _you_ fine sacrificing Ukraine
               | in return for a Russian and Chinese military umbrella?
               | This is the hard requirement for China to engage with the
               | EU [0].
               | 
               | The answer in Poland, the Baltics, Czechia, and Finland
               | is NO and that Russia is worse and that Ukraine must be
               | supported, and will back the US no matter how
               | transactional we become.
               | 
               | The answer in Hungary, Slovakia, and Belgium [1] is YES
               | and that sacrificing Ukraine for Russia is acceptable.
               | 
               | [0] - https://scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/33168
               | 75/china-...
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/4ce01938-a671-4433-83a7-
               | dada2b3ba...
        
               | generic92034 wrote:
               | The question is if the Chinese support for Russia can be
               | broken, by economical incentive or threat.
               | 
               | But anyway, over short or long the EU needs to build its
               | own military to a strength it can at least work as a
               | strong deterrence for aggressors.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > if the Chinese support for Russia can be broken, by
               | economical incentive...
               | 
               | China is not interested in breaking with Russia.
               | 
               | Russia helps China put pressure on Japan [0], helps China
               | put pressure on South Korea [1], allows China to expand
               | it's influence in Central Asia [2], acts as a backchannel
               | for China-India diplomatic normalization [3], gives China
               | the ability to access ONG without dealing with Hormuz or
               | Malaccas [4], and allows China to run the Chongqing-
               | Xinjiang-Europe railway [5] which continues to supply
               | Europe with no sanctions despite the ongoing war in
               | Ukraine.
               | 
               | On the other hand, the EU is tariffing Chinese goods [6];
               | signing FTAs with Chinese rivals like India [7], Japan
               | [8], and South Korea [9]; and signing defense pacts with
               | Japan [10], South Korea [11], and India [12] which allow
               | them to participate in ReArm Europe 2030.
               | 
               | Additionally, China-EU trade only represents a little
               | over 10% of all Chinese trade [13], and is easily
               | replaceable with expanded trade with ASEAN, Japan, South
               | Korea, and India.
               | 
               | China views Russia the same way America views the EU - a
               | weak junior partner who can be bullied. The US is
               | somewhat trying to pull Russia to our side, and China is
               | somewhat trying to pull the EU to their side, but the
               | reality is both the US and China view the EU and Russia
               | as junior partners.
               | 
               | > the Chinese support for Russia can be broken, by ...
               | threat
               | 
               | What threat can the EU give to China? Chinese foreign
               | policy _already_ views the EU as sanctimonious [14], weak
               | [15], and declining [16].
               | 
               | > over short or long the EU needs to build its own
               | military to a strength it can at least work as a strong
               | deterrence for aggressors
               | 
               | Yep. But that will takes decades, which is why the US and
               | China can both bully the EU with complete impunity today.
               | 
               | [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-
               | defense/russian-b...
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqxq38028djo
               | 
               | [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china-looks-
               | strengthen-ties-ru...
               | 
               | [3] - https://eastasiaforum.org/2020/10/23/how-russia-
               | emerged-as-k...
               | 
               | [4] - https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-
               | economy/article/3345920/m...
               | 
               | [5] - https://carnegie.ru/commentary/?fa=64555
               | 
               | [6] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-
               | 277bcb042...
               | 
               | [7] - https://commission.europa.eu/topics/trade/eu-india-
               | trade-agr...
               | 
               | [8] - https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-
               | markets/en/content/eu-j...
               | 
               | [9] - https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-
               | markets/en/content/eu-s...
               | 
               | [10] - https://www.mofa.go.jp/press/release/pressite_0000
               | 01_00703.h...
               | 
               | [11] - https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/security-and-
               | defence-partner...
               | 
               | [12] - https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/security-and-
               | defence-eu-and-...
               | 
               | [13] - http://www.customs.gov.cn/customs/2025-12/14/artic
               | le_2026011...
               | 
               | [14] -
               | https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202603/1356666.shtml
               | 
               | [15] - https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202603/16/WS69b7f2
               | e2a310d686...
               | 
               | [16] - https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202512/22/WS694882
               | 70a310d686...
        
             | cjbgkagh wrote:
             | So long as not subscribing is worse than subscribing
             | countries will still do it. Even if it not in the interest
             | of the country the decision makers can and do still get
             | kickbacks / speaking engagements.
             | 
             | It's interesting to read of the ineffectiveness of
             | influence the gulf states thought they had, though I think
             | that speaks more to the relative cost effectiveness of
             | tributes versus blackmail. These states don't have the
             | security apparatus to both blackmail US politicians and
             | prevent others from blackmailing those same politicians.
             | This second part is essential as it is what maintains the
             | relative advantage.
             | 
             | I do think they will be less enthusiastic subscribers in
             | the future, and perhaps even shop around for more cost
             | effective approaches. Modi in India is intentionally
             | creating an Indian diaspora as one example and I believe he
             | is bribing politicians to help make this happen.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > read of the ineffectiveness of influence the gulf
               | states thought they had
               | 
               | The primary players in the Gulf - Saudi and the UAE -
               | have been aligned with the ongoing Iran strikes.
               | 
               | KSA's Mohammad Bin Salman has been lobbying Trump to
               | strike Iran [0], just like his predecessor King Abdullah
               | was doing [1]. Similarly, the UAE has an ongoing land
               | dispute with Iran [2].
               | 
               | [0] -
               | https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2026/02/28/trump-
               | ira...
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-
               | politics/cut-off-he...
               | 
               | [2] - https://www.uae-embassy.org/foreign-
               | policy/occupied-uae-isla...
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | So is it your stated position that the reason the US has
               | decided to go to war with Iran is because of Saudi Arabia
               | and the UAE?
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Nope. And that is quite a leap in logic.
               | 
               | The larger Gulf States are aligned with the US in
               | striking Iran. And we have an incentive also to prevent
               | another nuclear breakout from happening.
               | 
               | Edit: can't reply
               | 
               | > I do note that a similar reason was given for North
               | Korea which did end up rather peacefully acquiring
               | nuclear weapons
               | 
               | Because we were in Iraq and Afghanistan when North
               | Korea's nuclear breakout happened in the early 2000s.
               | 
               | > the primary reason?
               | 
               | There is no primary reason (there never is), but there
               | are clearly a multiple interests that aligned with
               | striking Iran
               | 
               | 1. Iran's eventual nuclear breakout (already mentioned)
               | 
               | 2. The operationalization of the Iran-Central Asia-China
               | railway in 2025 [0], which allows China to bypass Malacca
               | 
               | 3. Iran's relative weakness following the collapse of the
               | Assad regime, the death of much od Hezbollah's
               | leadership, and the Houthis comparative weakness
               | 
               | 4. Continued anger amongst policymakers in the Gulf,
               | Israel, and the US that Iran-backed Hamas launched the
               | 10/7 attack barely 3 weeks after the US+EU launched the
               | IMEC project and were about to loop Saudi Arabia into the
               | Abraham Accords [1]
               | 
               | [0] - https://caspianpost.com/iran/china-kyrgyz-iran-
               | rail-link-cut...
               | 
               | [1] -
               | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/09/g20-eu-and-
               | us-...
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | I felt giving a primary reason would add clarity, which
               | is why I asked. So is "prevent another nuclear breakout
               | from happening" the primary reason?
               | 
               | I do note that a similar reason was given for North Korea
               | which did end up rather peacefully acquiring nuclear
               | weapons.
               | 
               | Edit: so to confirm that is your stated primary reason?
               | Any other reasons you can think of?
        
               | mikkupikku wrote:
               | Primary reason is because Israel and American zionists
               | (mostly evangelical christians) lobby for it. The KSA and
               | friends also lobbying for it is just icing on the cake
               | for American politicians.
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | I was hoping to hear the case made as to why Israel was
               | not the primary reason but instead you seem to have
               | chosen to elide it altogether. It seems to be a
               | conspicuous omission especially when both the US and
               | Israeli admin have repeatedly made the case that Israel
               | was the primary reason.
        
           | harvey9 wrote:
           | The UK NHS is one of the biggest employers in the world. It
           | absolutely could choose to hire and cultivate that level of
           | expertise but then how would senior management retire into
           | Palantir sinecures?
           | 
           | (It actually has quite a few expert staff who are not
           | delighted with the tools they have been given but they don't
           | have the lobbying power of Palantir and the cluster of
           | consulting firms around it)
        
             | cjbgkagh wrote:
             | Sounds emblematic of a degraded bureaucracy to me, lots of
             | wasted potential.
        
         | robertkoss wrote:
         | There is a fairly recent demo of Maven Smart System, which is
         | the military product offering on top of Gotham (their
         | government product)
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrtDgoqWmgM
         | 
         | The commercial product, Foundry, is very well documented and an
         | extensive Data Platform that allows to build data pipelines
         | (similar to Databricks) and build low code / no code
         | applications on top. If you master it, its incredibly powerful
         | but complex
        
         | ctolsen wrote:
         | It's 100% laziness on the side of procurement, aided by some
         | good marketing and a complete lack of guardrails. Exactly the
         | same mindset that has led to every European government now
         | being tied to US big tech.
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | > Big fat database schemas with big fat CRUD
         | 
         | It's not rocket science. Those particular database schemas,
         | together with those particular CRUD layers, do something
         | useful, and neither building nor maintaining those applications
         | is part of the core business for most companies, so buying
         | prebuilt from somebody else, and letting them maintain it for
         | you, makes perfect business sense.
        
         | hiddencost wrote:
         | Their reason for existing is: they provide a source for
         | consultants willing to work with cops and surveillance
         | agencies.
         | 
         | The software exists because it's now convenient and easier to
         | build their own than depend on a contractor.
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | Sometime back, someone described in a way that was interesting
         | to read. So, I bookmarked it
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44896367
         | 
         | Reproducing it verbatim;
         | 
         | "Palantir is a tech platform that consumes data from their
         | clients in return for providing high level data-driven
         | insights. They assign FDEs (or consultants) to really learn the
         | details of a customers data. Foundry allows them to get single
         | pane view of the data in an org and they actually have both the
         | tech and engineering skills to do the dirty data cleaning jobs.
         | 
         | For an extravagant fee, you give them your data, they clean it
         | for you, and then those same FDEs can tell you interesting
         | things that you should have known, had you actually done proper
         | data architecture in the first place."
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | So they are data brokers with data analysis combined.
           | 
           | Why don't we ban data brokers in the first place?
        
             | halleo wrote:
             | https://www.palantir.com/palantir-is-still-not-a-data-
             | compan...
             | 
             | > Contrary to some media reports, we are not a surveillance
             | company. We do not sell personal data of any kind. We don't
             | provide data-mining as a service.
        
             | fastball wrote:
             | Why would you ban data brokers?
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | At this point the question should be: why not?
        
           | datsci_est_2015 wrote:
           | They're also missing the tidbit that, like any other
           | consultancy, they provide a means for laundering a conclusion
           | that middle management has already come to, confirmation bias
           | be damned. Unsurprising that they're also useful for parallel
           | construction for LEOs.
        
           | basket_horse wrote:
           | This is a somewhat misleading description.
           | 
           | The first half is true. They bring in their FDEs to clean and
           | organize your data.
           | 
           | But the difference in what they leave behind is what
           | separates them from classic consultancies and pure tech
           | companies.
           | 
           | They don't leave behind "insights." They leave behind a suite
           | of operational (ie have write capabilities not just
           | dashboards) applications that are "custom" built to actually
           | solve those insights. I put custom in quotes because while
           | the applications are usually bespoke to your company, they
           | are built in Palantir's app-building product Workshop, which
           | significantly lowers the cost of building these custom apps.
           | 
           | https://www.palantir.com/docs/foundry/workshop/overview
           | 
           | So in the end, your company's processes are improved because
           | your employees are using the apps that the FDE's built.
           | 
           | This is distinct from traditional consultancies because those
           | will only leave behind the insights. Also distinct from most
           | SaaS because those have a one-size-fits all approach, so you
           | wind up having to change your company to fit the design of
           | the application, where as Palantir builds its applications to
           | fit your company.
        
         | miki123211 wrote:
         | Because it's hard for the government[1] to build computer
         | systems.
         | 
         | Government salaries are pretty low compared to dev salaries. If
         | the government wants to hire devs and pay them as much as
         | private industry does, they'd have to pay them much more than
         | what their superriors (and their superriors' superriors) make,
         | which would destroy workplace morale. They could raise
         | everyone's salaries, but that's deeply unpopular, as a large
         | part of the population view all high-level government
         | functionaries as crooks by definition.
         | 
         | The way you get around that is by using contractors.
         | Contractors let you hide the cost of software development.
         | Instead of paying $150k to a software developer (which is
         | probably more than the director makes), you pay $10m to a
         | company, not unusual when you also hire companies to build you
         | planes and bridges. How that company allocates that 10m and how
         | much they pay their engineers is no longer your concern, and no
         | longer an embarrassment to your hierarchy and salaries.
         | 
         | However, writing contracts for software is hard, for the same
         | reason waterfall is hard. You just don't really know what the
         | requirements are before the project starts, and in a
         | traditional RFP process, you can't accurately model what
         | requirements are the costliest and should perhaps be
         | reconsidered. This means contracted government projects usually
         | turn into an exercise in checkbox-checking and terrible,
         | unusable UIs which technically fulfill the acceptance criteria,
         | and therefore have to be accepted.
         | 
         | Palantir has somehow managed to actually collaborate with the
         | government, sending forward-deployed engineers to figure out
         | what their actual needs are, and then writing software which
         | fulfills exactly those needs, bringing techniques which modern
         | tech companies have learned along the way. I don't actually
         | know how they managed to circumvent the RFP process well enough
         | to do this.
         | 
         | [1] "The government" here can apply to any government you like,
         | not necessarily the US government.
        
       | llm_nerd wrote:
       | It is insanity that any country would give an iota of data, much
       | less any sort of control, to an org like Palantir. Any government
       | representative for countries outside of the US or Israel that
       | recommends such a vile trojan horse needs to be outed as the
       | traitorous plant that they are. Every element of their personal
       | life needs to be scrutinized, because the only scenario where
       | they would come to such a recommendation is corruption.
       | 
       | Quite aside from that fact that Palantir is basically an arm of
       | the US government -- which has proven to be an enemy to the West
       | and a thoroughly busted idiocracy -- just look at the sociopaths
       | that lead that company. Alex Karp's public appearances are
       | dystopian, and the guy comes across as a vile, self-involved
       | crackhead that has no comprehension how reprehensible he is to
       | 99% of the planet. Thiel is utterly deranged, and that goblin
       | shouldn't come within a parsec of any influence or power.
        
       | captainbland wrote:
       | Honestly it's really weird that it was ever allowed to get this
       | stage. Their leadership has been pretty "mask off" for a good
       | while now.
        
         | spiderfarmer wrote:
         | That's what you get when decisions are made by people who don't
         | understand anything about the stuff they vote on.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | ...but understand and appreciate bribes very well
        
             | spiderfarmer wrote:
             | You only need to buy one or two to get it on the agenda,
             | then everybody votes along party lines, on stuff they don't
             | understand. It's not even that expensive.
        
             | _joel wrote:
             | Just ask Wes Streeting and Peter Mandelson.
        
       | mosura wrote:
       | The fact Alex Karp has any security clearance at all boggles the
       | mind.
        
         | KellyCriterion wrote:
         | Isnt this required anyway for everybody doing military & gov
         | contracts?
        
           | wavefunction wrote:
           | Not for Jared Kushner and I expect he's not the only one.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Note that "UK Security" and "safety of people in the UK" are very
       | distinct things. But - exposure to whatever Palantir does is very
       | likely bad for the second regardless of whether or not it's bad
       | for the first.
        
         | Joker_vD wrote:
         | > Note that "UK Security" and "safety of people in the UK" are
         | very distinct things.
         | 
         | "Everything in the name of man, everything for the good of
         | man!" -- The 3rd Program of the CPSU, 1961. As the joke went,
         | "and if you get to visit the Party Congress in Moscow, you will
         | even get to see that very man!"
        
       | tablets wrote:
       | Related meeting launching today about Palantir and the NHS -
       | https://www.medact.org/event/briefing-launch-the-risks-of-pa...
        
         | mentalgear wrote:
         | Thiel - the dark data lord - tries to get his fingers in any
         | data source imaginable.
        
         | graemep wrote:
         | The NHS is also heavily dependent on AWS.
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Also, LBC exclusive about PS250 million contact that came about
       | because of Mandelson breaking today.
       | 
       | I mean if it wasn't obvious from the get go they're, well,
       | dubious, given the grandson of Owsald Mosley is the UK CEO.
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | Always interesting when you criticise Palantir on here you get
         | downvoted, almost as if they have an "outreach department"
        
           | pirate787 wrote:
           | No the downvote is from smearing an individual for the
           | political activities of his grandfather.
        
             | _joel wrote:
             | Smearing, hah, yea. The company is dodgy as fuck and you
             | know it.
             | 
             | edit: just looked at your comment history too, explains a
             | lot.
        
       | spot5010 wrote:
       | I feel like there's a lesson to be learnt by reading Lord of the
       | Rings and seeing what happens to Saruman and Denethor.
        
         | mystraline wrote:
         | Yep, Palantir of NOTHANKS.
         | 
         | (Play on words of Palantir of Orthanc)
        
         | sifar wrote:
         | The corruption of LoTR is the saddest part here.
        
       | iheartbiggpus wrote:
       | Why do the worst companies have the best names.
        
         | dlev_pika wrote:
         | Fascism puts a heavy emphasis on aesthetics
        
           | navane wrote:
           | They're better at selling ideas than having fleshed out
           | ideas. One could say they sell before they build.
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | Italian fascists did have fashion forward uniforms.
           | 
           | So did the German Nazis back then now I think about it.
           | 
           | Maybe there is something with cult-like thinking, fascist or
           | not, where the aesthetics seduces more people into wanting to
           | be a part of it all?
        
             | hermitcrab wrote:
             | No doubt the smart uniforms, the rallies, the flags, the
             | songs etc were a factor in many young men joining the SS.
        
             | energy123 wrote:
             | They like purity. Purity of the body (fitness and
             | lifestyle) and purity of society (regimentation,
             | conformity, single race, single ideology, single sexuality,
             | standardized architecture).
             | 
             | It's neurological. They feel emotional disgust if the
             | regimentation isn't there.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Oh, it was 100% marketing.
             | 
             | It's not just fascists, either; totalitarian regimes _in
             | general_ tend to be very keen on this sort of thing.
        
             | scarecrowbob wrote:
             | There's a bit of writing in that direction if you're
             | curious. I like Benjamin quite a but and have gotten a lot
             | out of his thinking. Here's the wiki-level entry to it:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aestheticization_of_politics
        
         | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
         | Palantir isn't a good name. It's a disastrously bad one, if you
         | ask me. It's a _constant_ scandal as every five minutes
         | somebody gets the bright idea that  "ackshually the Palantir
         | were a tool for evil made by a demon!!"
         | 
         | They're never able to live it down. It always comes up. And it
         | makes them seem, in a way, careless.
        
           | gzread wrote:
           | It's a great name if your target customer base is people who
           | _want_ to be evil by surveilling everything. Behold my next
           | company,  "Eye of Sauron LLC"
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | Nah - that customer base would much rather a mean-nothing
             | name like "Salesforce". The real evil people don't revel so
             | much in their evilness they're much more in the "ends
             | justify the means" camp where they can try and hide their
             | evilness from their conscience. Nobody wants to wear a pin
             | saying "I am, in fact, a terrible person that the world
             | would be better without."
        
           | Cpoll wrote:
           | Ackshually the Palantir were made by the Elves of Valinor,
           | and weren't made as a tool for evil.
           | 
           | In fact, there's a very interesting theme there: The Palantir
           | are only as useful as their users are wise. The power to see
           | is disastrous if you don't know where to look and how to
           | interpret what you see.
           | 
           |  _If_ they named it with that in mind, I 'd say it's a very
           | thoughtful name, and a prescient caution. But I doubt it.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | You're talking about it. Right now along with a solid dozen
           | other people as the only comments on this thread.
           | 
           | People barely understand what the company does, but boy do
           | they want to tell you all about the name.
           | 
           | It's marketing gold. Because rather then "who was that? Some
           | firm named something corp" instead you're spending 5 minutes
           | reinforcing how bad the name is..just building a ton of word
           | association games for a name derived from a well known
           | fiction work and really building up the message that the
           | company is named Palantir and they sell products to the
           | government.
        
         | epistasis wrote:
         | At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the
         | classic sci-fi novel Don't Invent The Torment Nexus.
        
       | basisword wrote:
       | We're not a serious country anymore. We build very little. We
       | control very little. Three years ago the war in Ukraine broke out
       | causing the energy price crisis and the short term solution was
       | the government paying a portion of everyone's bills. Three years
       | later we're in the same situation again thanks to the US and
       | Israel's warmongering. Are we prepared? No. What's the solution?
       | Freezing the price caps and paying a portion of peoples bills.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | You say that as if a "serious" country would have a better
         | solution. Which countries are "serious" in your view?
        
       | mhlansx wrote:
       | The history of Palantir:
       | 
       | Christine Maxwell and Alan Wade found Chiliad, a database
       | surveillance application that was used in the FBI. Then Alan Wade
       | became CIO at the CIA. Then In-Q-Tel (CIA) co-founded Palantir
       | with Thiel.
       | 
       | Karp, who was at Haverford college with Epstein's neighbor
       | Lutnick, became the philosophical ideologue for Palantir.
       | 
       | With these overt and easily verifiable connections it is beyond
       | belief that any European state would even consider using
       | Palantir. The governments do not even work any better with all
       | that surveillance software, they work worse than 20 years ago. So
       | even the "we need it" argument is a fallacy.
        
         | PeterStuer wrote:
         | "it is beyond belief that any European state would even
         | consider using Palantir".
         | 
         | Germany's PM was formerly at BlackRock. What exactly do you
         | find so hard to believe?
        
       | qweiopqweiop wrote:
       | Can someone explain why Palantir are seen as such a threat? My
       | understanding is their product is a PowerBI++ and they don't host
       | any user data themselves. Are people scared of backdoors?
        
         | vrganj wrote:
         | Two Reasons:
         | 
         | 1) It holds deeply sensitive data and does so in the US. In
         | times of increased mistrust of the US, many (including myself)
         | see that as a risky choice.
         | 
         | 2) Speaking of mistrust in America and American corporations,
         | have you heard their execs talk? It's absolute cuckoo-town:
         | 
         | > _If they are not scared, they don't wake up scared, they
         | don't go to bed scared, they don't fear that the wrath of
         | America will come down on them, they will attack us. They will
         | attack us everywhere._
         | 
         | Well, you've convinced me. I'm scared of America, I'm scared of
         | American companies and I'm scared of your company in
         | particular.
         | 
         | Good job, I guess?
        
           | qweiopqweiop wrote:
           | Are you sure they hold sensitive data themselves though? My
           | understanding was they integrate their tools with customers
           | own data and don't have access to it themselves (at least in
           | theory).
           | 
           | Of course I agree that quote is insane and you can dislike
           | them for political reasons, but I want to understand the
           | technological fears and see if any are unfounded.
        
             | iinnPP wrote:
             | Part of the core offering is data washing.
        
             | crimsoneer wrote:
             | they most definitely do not, and especially not on-prem,
             | national security systems like are being discussed here.
             | They sell software.
             | 
             | https://www.palantir.com/palantir-is-still-not-a-data-
             | compan...
        
             | sizero wrote:
             | The article mentions "while the underlying data may remain
             | under the MoD's control, any insights derived from that
             | data do not. The implications of this, the insiders say,
             | are far-reaching, especially because of the vast quantity
             | of personal and other data the company has access to across
             | UK government departments."
        
             | mborch wrote:
             | Deployments can be on-prem or cloud-based depending on
             | needs and constraints.
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | The United States is no longer a reliable ally.
         | 
         | That is the reality that the world is having to adapt to. Even
         | when Trump is gone, it will take a long time to rebuild that
         | trust.
        
           | goku12 wrote:
           | Would you trust Palantir if you're I'm the US?
        
             | skciva wrote:
             | Surely this time around, technological advancements in the
             | name of "national security" won't end up used on its
             | citizens ;)
             | 
             | Genuinely a bit shocked at the naivety on HN on this topic
             | but maybe thats a misunderstanding on my part. Happy to be
             | shown otherwise. Alex Karp, if you're reading this, please
             | don't send your fent laced urine spraying drones after me!
        
           | aunty_helen wrote:
           | You shouldn't assume trust will naturally just regrow. This
           | may be it, we may have passed peak USA.
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | Hence the Carney strategy up here in Canada. We can realize
             | in hindsight that we were far too dependent on a single
             | ally. We're diversifying - and even if America wants to
             | become reliable again we've learned and will (hopefully)
             | never be so dependent again.
             | 
             | In the post WW2 era most western countries grew lazy about
             | sovereignty due to America's open-handed approach - this
             | has been a wake up call and has severely lowered America's
             | soft-power globally.
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | For a company that tries exclusively to sell to people that are
         | very far removed from the use (government), yet have onerous
         | reporting standards for all spending (government), there sure
         | is very little independent reporting on the efficacy of
         | whatever it is they are even selling. Even the contract with
         | NHS was heavily censored. So frankly I oppose it on that ground
         | alone.
        
         | efxhoy wrote:
         | I've only had their platforms explained to me by them
         | (palantir) at a conference but the mental model that stuck with
         | me was more of an operating system than a single tool. Think
         | AWS managed services + databricks + whatever library of ready
         | made intelligence software they have already built for others.
         | 
         | They also have "forward deployed engineers" to help
         | organizations actually use the platform. It looked complicated
         | enough to probably be completely useless without these
         | specialists, even in a "self hosted" setup.
         | 
         | The managed hosting also seems like a major selling point so
         | many deployments that probably should be self hosted probably
         | aren't because muh managed services added value.
         | 
         | And the backdoors of course. There is no way it isn't full of
         | plausibly deniable "metrics endpoints" that helpfully spew out
         | all the internal data if the right key comes knocking. There's
         | no way it's auditable at the level of detail you would need
         | compared to the value of the data and the sophistication of the
         | potential attacker (NSA).
        
         | rainworld wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell#Distribution_of...
         | 
         | It's just the latest implementation of a winning formula.
        
         | thatguy0900 wrote:
         | Even if the software is mundane I don't think most people
         | should want their country offloading sensitive spy stuff to a
         | guy who's obsessed with the antichrist to the extent the
         | Vatican itself is complaining he's going to Rome and giving
         | secret speeches about it.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | The loudest people about this have no idea what they're talking
         | about essentially.
         | 
         | It's not sufficient but the first thing you can filter by is
         | anyone who comments on the name first (literally one of the
         | most effective marketing strategies in government contracting
         | history basically).
        
       | crimsoneer wrote:
       | "Palantir does not need to own the data or even have stewardship.
       | They can extract, transform and exploit the metadata to build
       | their own rich picture."
       | 
       | Sorry, but this is full on into conspiracy theory here. Are we
       | seriously arguing that Palantir are doing _very much illegal_
       | analysis on air-gapped national security systems, and somehow
       | exporting those and aggregating them?
       | 
       | The exact same concerns could be articulated for
       | Google/AWS/Azure, but nobody does because they would quite
       | rightly be called out as conspiracy theorists.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | > Are we seriously arguing that Palantir are doing very much
         | illegal analysis on air-gapped national security systems, and
         | somehow exporting those and aggregating them?
         | 
         | Is there any reason to think they would not do something
         | illegal? Or that they would be above exporting secret data?
        
           | crimsoneer wrote:
           | At the risk of stating the obvious, this is a very profitable
           | company that has spent 20-ish years working with intelligence
           | agencies from a bunch of different countries, I find it hard
           | to believe they'd just casually commit some incredibly
           | serious crime without evidence beyond "well, they
           | theoretically could".
        
             | lyu07282 wrote:
             | > has spent 20-ish years working with intelligence agencies
             | from a bunch of different countries
             | 
             | This is supposed to count towards their integrity? There is
             | no way your posts aren't satire, actually great job you
             | almost convinced me lmao
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | > very much illegal analysis on air-gapped national security
         | systems
         | 
         | They're hosted by the US. It would be illegal for them _not_ to
         | comply with orders to hand data over to US security services.
         | This has been a concern since the Microsoft  "safe harbour"
         | GDPR case. It's now the same thing with much higher stakes.
         | 
         | Since this:
         | https://www.theguardian.com/law/2026/feb/18/international-cr...
         | , no US tech company can give a meaningful guarantee that they
         | won't just turn off critical UK defence systems if ordered to
         | by Trump. Such as if we tried to carry out actions against the
         | invasion of Greenland. I admit that was a couple of months ago,
         | so it now seems like ancient history, but the US picks a new
         | invasion target every month.
        
           | alxhill wrote:
           | They are _not_ hosting UK government data in the US. They
           | offer on-premise and self-managed cloud offerings, which are
           | often used where data sovereignty is important. Additionally,
           | customers often manage access control - including for
           | Palantir employees - themselves, so it would not be a simple
           | "pull the power plug" if the US/UK relationship went awry.
        
             | strbean wrote:
             | They don't need to host the data for systems they develop
             | to be subject to a national security letter.
        
         | strbean wrote:
         | > Sorry, but this is full on into conspiracy theory here.
         | 
         | "Corporation says they aren't doing a bad thing so any
         | assertion to the contrary is _crazy_. "
         | 
         | Corporations actually tend to lie when they are engaged in
         | illegal or repugnant behavior.
         | 
         | > The exact same concerns could be articulated for
         | Google/AWS/Azure,
         | 
         | The leadership of those corporations aren't publicly supporting
         | the dissolution of democracy to impose neo-feudalism, so that's
         | a big difference.
         | 
         | To quote:
         | 
         | > I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are
         | compatible.
         | 
         | - Peter Thiel
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | It is a complete no-brainer that Thiel and his minions shouldn't
       | be let anywhere near anything health or security related.
        
         | gzread wrote:
         | ... if the goal is to have good health and security.
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | https://www.ft.com/content/fc1e7e9a-9d5d-4217-b9b2-38069eb11...
         | 
         | > US tech billionaire and Maga donor Peter Thiel is starting a
         | series of closed-door lectures about the antichrist in Rome on
         | Sunday, putting him on a collision course with Pope Leo XIV,
         | the Catholic Church's first American pontiff.
         | 
         | This sort of stuff might go down well with fundamentalists in
         | america, but it has no place in the advanced world.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | How is this not shut down in any form? This is actual
           | insanity.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Normalization of deviance. They've shifted what is
             | considered normal so far out of bounds that they can now
             | pretend this is just fine. So no more fig-leafs. It brought
             | down the Space Shuttle, and it will bring down society if
             | left unchecked.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | This sort of thing has been widespread in US fundamentalist
             | Christian circles for a long time. He probably goes (or
             | went) to a church surrounded by people who also believe
             | that.
        
             | cm2012 wrote:
             | Why is it any of our business what this guy says in his
             | free time if it's not advocating for violence?
        
               | onraglanroad wrote:
               | Because he made it our business by deliberately making it
               | public.
        
               | RobotToaster wrote:
               | Calling people "harbingers of the antichrist" is
               | tantamount to advocating violence, not to mention
               | slander.
        
               | Hikikomori wrote:
               | If this guy was some raving lunatic on a corner I
               | wouldn't care. But he's got a country sized megaphone
               | thanks to money and has also bought the government. So it
               | does unfortunately matter that he's an insane christian
               | cretin that wants to see the current form of government
               | destroyed.
        
         | Lapra wrote:
         | Frankly the other cofounders are just as bad as Thiel but don't
         | draw the headlines quite as much.
         | 
         | "Yesterday, Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale agreed with an X post
         | suggesting communists in the Western hemisphere should be blown
         | up. "Exactly," he wrote. "What did you think founding Palantir
         | was supposed to be about?"" -
         | https://responsiblestatecraft.org/defense-companies-maduro/
         | 
         | ""We support warfare and we are proud of it," Karp stated
         | bluntly during the conversation with German media outlet
         | Heise.de." - https://zetbit.tech/news/209/pentagon-backing-
         | palantir-ceo-k...
         | 
         | "In a CNBC interview Thursday, Palantir cofounder and CEO Alex
         | Karp opined that AI will undermine the influence of "highly
         | educated, often female voters" and empower working class men
         | instead. And anyone who doesn't realize this political reality,
         | he added, belongs in an "insane asylum."" -
         | https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/ceo-palantir-ai...
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | They're all certifiable.
        
         | epistasis wrote:
         | Whenever I see Alex Karp speak I wonder why they can't even
         | _pretend_ to put on sheep 's clothing.
         | 
         | It says a lot about the breakdown of current US society and
         | democracy that Palantir's leadership feels free to speak in the
         | way that they do. People will not forget, because we all
         | suspected that they were like this, but when given a tiny bit
         | of power by electing a transient and weak president, they
         | pulled their masks off fully.
         | 
         | Seems like a crucial miscalculation on their part, as they lose
         | all international revenue and will likely lose all US revenue
         | as soon as democratic check and balances are restored.
        
           | conception wrote:
           | It seems clear that the assumptions they are working off is
           | that they will not be restored.
        
             | rescripting wrote:
             | Not just an assumption, but a goal. If some semblance of
             | democratic society returns they know they'll be held
             | accountable, so they'll fight with every means available to
             | prevent that from happening.
        
           | jgalt212 wrote:
           | > Whenever I see Alex Karp speak I wonder why they can't even
           | pretend to put on sheep's clothing.
           | 
           | Because he's speaking to his investors aiming to keep the
           | stock price up. He's not selling his products or himself to
           | the world. His investors are rewarding him for the way he
           | talks and acts.
        
           | SlinkyOnStairs wrote:
           | > Whenever I see Alex Karp speak I wonder why they can't even
           | pretend to put on sheep's clothing.
           | 
           | Because shedding the sheepskin is the point. It's
           | performative. A display of power.
           | 
           | It doesn't matter that Karp has destroyed his brain with
           | cocaine, nor that he's a massive bigot. It's a signal. "We
           | have won. You can't stop us".
           | 
           | > will likely lose all US revenue as soon as democratic check
           | and balances are restored.
           | 
           | The gamble and taunt being that they're stating that this
           | will not happen. Thiel has won. US democracy is dead. The
           | moment Trump croaks they try to seize the fed entirely.
           | 
           | The actual miscalculation is deeper. They may seize the US
           | government. It won't save them, they'll only drag it down
           | with them.
           | 
           | Globalism is not some evil ploy by which [we all know exactly
           | who they're accusing] try to subvert the US. _It is the
           | foundational mechanism of the US ' imperialism._ And in
           | trying to unmake globalism, they're unmaking the American
           | Empire.
           | 
           | Similarly with democracy. Democracy is not some weakness
           | forced upon the west. _It is the winning system of government
           | after all others have collapsed_. Even the smartest god-king
           | is useless if all his advisors are coked out nutjobs. Thiel
           | 's idea of disposing of democracy will doom not only the US,
           | but himself personally as well.
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | In Germany we have a term for entities headed by people who
         | publicly say things Thiel and his gang say. It's
         | verfassungsfeindliche Organisation. I really don't understand
         | how they can still be considered government suppliers to
         | purchase from. Just because they are on the stock exchange and
         | not some secret conspiracy? (they are not on the stock
         | exchange)
        
           | gzread wrote:
           | It's simple - nobody actually cares about the constitution.
        
             | onraglanroad wrote:
             | The UK doesn't have a constitution.
        
               | gzread wrote:
               | Germany does, and that's what verfassungsfeindlich refers
               | to. Germany also uses Palantir.
        
               | phpnode wrote:
               | The UK doesn't have a _written_ constitution, it does
               | have one though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituti
               | on_of_the_United_Kin...
        
               | zipy124 wrote:
               | Right but if you read that page you quickly come to the
               | quote "Parliament can make or unmake any law".
               | Technically there is judicial review now, so there is
               | some restrictions, but not like in a USA style
               | constitution.
        
               | phpnode wrote:
               | Same is true in the US though? Surely that's what all
               | those amendments are
        
       | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
       | Obviously, just look at what the Palantir stones did to Saruman
       | and Denethor. They're a corrupting force, both in the middle-
       | earth case and in the our-earth case.
       | 
       | Thiel has made no secret of his intent to use technology to
       | dispense with that pesky democracy problem that billionaires
       | have, and Palantir is pretty obviously his attempt to do just
       | that. It's a reductio-ad-absurdum argument against listening to
       | your citizens:
       | 
       | You put it in the hands of a populist demagogue, the power to
       | apply hyper-targeted pain to their enemies amplifies their darker
       | tendencies, and when evil happens you say: "look, the people
       | can't be trusted." Meanwhile, you use it to direct the pointy end
       | of the state's stick towards people you don't like (because the
       | demagogue is too lazy to actually use those hyper-targeting
       | features themself) so you can interfere with democratic attempts
       | to limit your power without bothering to pay for the pepper
       | spray.
       | 
       | Nobody in their right mind would want their government anywhere
       | near it.
        
         | Calavar wrote:
         | I still don't understand why Theil and Karp decided to name
         | their surveillance tech company after a device that is best
         | known for being used by an evil dark lord to decieve and
         | corrupt. It's like the Mitchell and Webb skit "are we the
         | baddies" except they're the ones who designed the uniforms with
         | skulls on them.
        
           | 0x3f wrote:
           | Well, it's not inherently any more evil than Fanta, is it?
        
           | ljm wrote:
           | I don't think you have to understand why they made that
           | decision, you just have to understand who they are and what
           | they believe in. Just have a look at what they talk about,
           | and what they are quoted as saying.
           | 
           | Then it will start to make sense.
        
             | Manuel_D wrote:
             | It'd help make your point to actually share the ominous
             | quotes you're referring to.
        
           | thatguy0900 wrote:
           | Because it's funny and they genuinely don't care whether or
           | not they're bad guys
        
           | b800h wrote:
           | Thiel apparently gives talks about the Antichrist. He's
           | actually a very thoughtful Christian, following the works of
           | Rene Girard. I think he's just got a rather dark sense of
           | humour.
        
             | throwaway27448 wrote:
             | I think that's more about trying to attract christian rubes
             | than it is reflective of his actual humor
        
             | BLKNSLVR wrote:
             | Sounds deranged to me. Like, seriously, has had a psychotic
             | break from reality.
        
             | FridgeSeal wrote:
             | > constantly talks about the anti christ and getting rid of
             | democracy
             | 
             | "He's just got a quirky sense of humour"
             | 
             | Where does this inclination to completely brush off what is
             | pretty clearly exceedingly weird and concerning behaviour
             | come from?
        
             | skciva wrote:
             | A very thoughtful Christian..seems his actions differ a lot
             | from my interoperation of the faith.
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | I'm not sure you can describe somebody who supports ICE in
             | its current incarnation, who profits from surveillance of
             | vulnerable populations, who believes in revenge (cf
             | Gawker), who abuses wealth (NZ citizenship shenanigans) as
             | "a very thoughtful Christian", unless you do a lot of
             | definitional work on "Christian".
             | 
             | Talking about the antichrist doesn't make you Christian.
        
       | gebalamariusz wrote:
       | I see the UK government hasn't been on a good run lately. Google
       | recently released the Cloud Threat Horizons H1 2026 report. A
       | vulnerability in the OIDC trust policy can be exploited to gain
       | admin access to AWS. The UK Government Digital Service was one of
       | the affected organizations. Datadog found their IAM role
       | misconfigured the same way.
        
       | sschueller wrote:
       | Palantir is dragging a small independent Swiss investigative
       | newspaper to court because they reported[1] about Palantir
       | getting the door slammed in their face in by several Swiss
       | government agencies including the military over the last years.
       | No one wants this turd of a company.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.republik.ch/2026/02/18/how-tenaciously-
       | palantir-...
        
         | infinitewars wrote:
         | Now with Golden Dome, Palantir is a _global_ security threat
         | not just a national one.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dome_(missile_defense_s...
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | Palantir has been integrated with global-scale ISR for
           | several years, in the US.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | Oracle 2.0.
        
         | throwaway27448 wrote:
         | Weak authoritarians who don't understand how to govern seem to
         | _adore_ palantir
        
         | gjm11 wrote:
         | I think there may be a bit less to that one than meets the eye.
         | In Swiss law there's some kind of right-of-reply thing where if
         | someone puts something about you in print and you think it's
         | wrong you may be entitled to have some sort of response
         | printed. And AIUI the way this works is that you go before a
         | court and say "we want our response printed, please", and
         | that's what Palantir's done in this case.
         | 
         | (Note 1: For all I know it may well be true that the reporting
         | is 100% accurate and Palantir's claim to deserve a reply is
         | 100% bullshit. I'm not saying they're _in the right_ here! But
         | I think the actual story is a bit less horrible than  "Palantir
         | is taking these guys to court because they didn't like their
         | reporting" sounds without the relevant context. They're not,
         | e.g., trying to get damages from the newspaper, or trying to
         | get what they wrote retracted, or anything like that.)
         | 
         | (Note 2: I am not an expert on Swiss law or on this case, and I
         | am accordingly not 100% confident of any of the above. In the
         | unlikely event that whether I'm right about this _matters_ to
         | anyone reading, they should check it for themselves :-).)
        
       | catigula wrote:
       | I gathered from this article that Palantir apparently has
       | complete transparency into - a "profile" of - every UK citizen.
       | 
       | This is glossed over and not really mentioned as an issue...
        
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       (page generated 2026-03-16 23:01 UTC)