[HN Gopher] Montana passes Right to Compute act (2025)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Montana passes Right to Compute act (2025)
        
       Author : bilsbie
       Score  : 228 points
       Date   : 2026-03-14 13:59 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.westernmt.news)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.westernmt.news)
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | It amuses me how contradictory the two bullet points from the
       | article are.
       | 
       | - Strict limits on governmental regulation, wherein any
       | restrictions must be demonstrably necessary and narrowly tailored
       | to a compelling public safety or health interest.
       | 
       | - Mandatory safety protocols for AI-controlled critical
       | infrastructure, including a shutdown mechanism and compulsory
       | annual risk management reviews.
       | 
       | How were the necessity and scope of the second rule shown to
       | satisfy the first rule?
        
         | hnsdev wrote:
         | Probably one applies for individuals while the other, as
         | described, applies for infrastructure.
        
         | janice1999 wrote:
         | The 2nd rule is clearly intended to be a shield and
         | distraction. It's there to pretend the law serves the public,
         | when in reality it's designed to defend datacenter builders
         | from the public interest. Politicians can talk about
         | meaningless sci-fi concepts like SkyNet and how it can defeat
         | it with off switches, instead of real issues like noise
         | pollution, tax giveaways, electricity prices and mass
         | surveillance.
        
         | lich_king wrote:
         | You can read the actual bill here:
         | https://legiscan.com/MT/text/SB212/id/3212152/Montana-2025-S...
         | 
         | In essence, it doesn't really mandate anything; it says you
         | should have a plan, and only for "critical infrastructure
         | facilities":
         | 
         | "Section 4. Infrastructure controlled by critical artificial
         | intelligence system. (1) When critical infrastructure
         | facilities are controlled in whole or in part by a critical
         | artificial intelligence system, the deployer shall develop a
         | risk management policy after deploying the system that is
         | reasonable and considers guidance and standards in the latest
         | version of the artificial intelligence risk management
         | framework from the national institute of standards and
         | technology, the ISO/IEC 4200 artificial intelligence standard
         | from the international organization for standardization, or
         | another nationally or internationally recognized risk
         | management framework for artificial intelligence systems. A
         | plan prepared under federal requirements constitutes compliance
         | with this section."
         | 
         | So it's essentially lip service to AI safety, probably to quell
         | some objections to a bill that otherwise limits regulation of
         | tech platforms.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | I did read it. The point is there are no findings that
           | justify the regulation in light of the grant of rights in the
           | same bill. The only WHEREAS that approaches the level of a
           | finding amounts to "many are saying..."
        
         | dlev_pika wrote:
         | Orwell called it "double speak"
        
           | chrisjj wrote:
           | Not quite. He coined "newspeak" and "doublethink".
        
         | terminalshort wrote:
         | > any restrictions must be demonstrably necessary and narrowly
         | tailored to a compelling public safety or health interest
         | 
         | This should be the default policy on regulation. We shouldn't
         | need a specific law to enact it.
        
       | s_dev wrote:
       | I really dislike how 'compute' as a noun took over
       | 'computational' as an adjective. I just find the sentence 'I need
       | more computational resources' flows so much nicer than ''I need
       | more compute'.
        
         | hackyhacky wrote:
         | How about "we've got the best nuclear"
        
         | codethief wrote:
         | The "compute" in "right to compute" could also be a verb,
         | though. :-)
        
         | soulofmischief wrote:
         | Well, language evolves, and I personally prefer compute as a
         | noun when talking about resources. It's great though because we
         | can each say it in our preferred way without judging one
         | another.
        
           | sockaddr wrote:
           | I agree. This is language evolving. If someone from the 16th
           | century could hear a modern well-educated person speak
           | English today they would likely be horrified at how
           | degenerate it would sound to them.
           | 
           | So I don't think current English is in some perfect state
           | that should not change.
           | 
           | On god.
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | It's a verb, not a noun.
        
             | soulofmischief wrote:
             | It can be used as both.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | Please don't judge me for what I say, or do, or who I really
           | am.
        
         | hackyhacky wrote:
         | Interpret the word "compute" in the title as a verb, not a
         | noun. "I have the right to compute" is analogous grammatically
         | to "I have the right to vote" or "I have the right to assemble"
        
           | moate wrote:
           | Glad Montana is securing the right to do math.
        
             | anonym29 wrote:
             | It's hilarious that they think it needs to be codified into
             | law. As if the right to do math wasn't intrinsic, and could
             | be even theoretically be revoked by the government, lol.
        
               | ahsillyme wrote:
               | I think it betrays cynicism about the tendency for
               | single-objective optimizing market actors to rent-seek
               | and cartelize. I don't think it's a stretch at all. On
               | the surface it would be equally preposterous to suggest
               | that breathing could be theoretically revoked by the
               | government, which truly is preposterous but we do have
               | those laws in place depending on whether the air you
               | breathe has "illegal substances" in it. But then again,
               | explicit revocation is a high bar when you can throttle
               | the free use of computational resources by regulatory
               | capture: the AI incumbents could say, for example, that
               | AI is so dangerous that it must be kept out of the hands
               | of the unwashed masses. Another excellent strategy (with
               | a rather high bar to entry) would be to distort the
               | markets themselves by ensuring that your prospective
               | renters can't afford basic compute.
        
         | DennisP wrote:
         | "Right to compute" sounds to me more like they're using
         | "compute" as a verb, which predates "computational" by a couple
         | centuries.
        
           | moate wrote:
           | Someone said "right to computers' and someone else said "that
           | sounds dumb...make it compute!"
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | Compute is the...
         | 
         | FTA: right to own, access, and use computational resources
         | 
         | It's a verb.
        
       | kmeisthax wrote:
       | This is extremely light on details, but I'm pretty sure "Right to
       | Compute" has absolutely nothing to do with software freedom and
       | everything to do with making it harder to oppose giant datacenter
       | buildouts for AI companies, so they can blast you with
       | infrasound, spike the price of electricity and RAM, and build
       | surveillance systems to take away _your_ rights.
        
         | perfect-blue wrote:
         | My thoughts exactly. I reads a lot like they are trying to
         | minimize the state's power to regulate AI. I'm not sure that's
         | such a good thing. Regulation is one of the only ways that we
         | can manage the ``bads'' that come with any new technology. In
         | the US, we've never been very good at regulating new
         | technologies before industry stakeholders entrench themselves
         | in the lobbying circuit.
        
         | hrimfaxi wrote:
         | Well they do define compelling government interest to include
         | 
         | > "Compelling government interest " means a government interest
         | of the highest order in protecting the public that cannot be
         | achieved through less restrictive means. This includes but is
         | not limited to: (a) ensuring that a critical infrastructure
         | facility controlled by an artificial intelligence system
         | develops a risk management policy; (b) addressing conduct that
         | deceives or defrauds the public; (c) protecting individuals,
         | especially minors, from harm by a person who distributes
         | deepfakes and other harmful synthetic content with actual
         | knowledge of the nature of that material; and (d) taking
         | actions that prevent or abate common law nuisances created by
         | physical datacenter infrastructure.
         | 
         | D seems to address that potentially.
        
         | glaslong wrote:
         | Proactively shielding themselves from the eventual, justified,
         | realization that spiking a population's price of water and
         | electricity such that they cannot use them IS an externality
         | just as bad as polluting the water supply.
        
         | terminalshort wrote:
         | Yeah, I have relatives in Ashburn VA with over 200 data centers
         | running and it's practically uninhabitable /s
        
       | Avicebron wrote:
       | > "This bill will help position Montana as a world-class
       | destination for AI and Data Center investment."
       | 
       | https://frontierinstitute.org/frontier-institute-statement-i...
       | 
       | Ah.
        
         | gwerbin wrote:
         | > Strict limits on governmental regulation wherein any
         | restrictions must be demonstrably necessary and narrowly
         | tailored to a compelling public safety or health interest. >
         | Mandatory safety protocols for AI-controlled critical
         | infrastructure, including a shutdown mechanism and compulsory
         | annual risk management reviews.
         | 
         | Read: industry can do whatever we want, but the government also
         | has to put up barriers to entry that favor large incumbents.
         | 
         | This has nothing to do with rights or even computing, it's just
         | regulatory capture.
        
           | ToucanLoucan wrote:
           | You know if we're gonna pass laws to make it illegal for the
           | government to interfere with the Torment Nexus, the least
           | they could do is not gaslight us with the fucking name of the
           | law. Just tell us the billionaires get to fuck the planet in
           | the eye and the rest of us have to deal with it, at least
           | it's honest that way.
        
             | bigfishrunning wrote:
             | They can't be that blatant, that's how you lose your next
             | term
        
               | saghm wrote:
               | The second term for the "drain the swamp" president
               | implies otherwise (it did take another cycle, but that
               | arguably had more to do with covid than corruption).
        
               | basilgohar wrote:
               | That's because his opponent and her party were fully
               | behind and financing a genocide in Gaza at the time.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | I mean that seemed to happen anyway...
        
               | RRWagner wrote:
               | You cant drain a swamp by filling it with billionaire
               | alligators.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Practically every law, and lobbying organization, is named
             | for exactly the opposite of what it does. If I see the
             | Puppies and Orphans Protection Act of 2028, I assume its
             | purpose is to use puppies to strangle orphans. Proponents
             | will point to the limitation on how many puppies you can
             | use per orphan.
             | 
             | Similarly, if I see the People For X organization, I assume
             | they are against X. The Committee for Green Spaces and
             | Clean Air is guaranteed to be an oil company.
             | 
             | Once you develop that reflex, everything calms down. Though
             | admittedly, I passed a sign for Fidos for Freedom. I'm not
             | quite sure what Fidos Against Freedom does. I think they
             | give dogs to disabled people, and they bark at you if you
             | try to leave the house.
        
               | ToucanLoucan wrote:
               | All I can think of is Dr. Augustine from Avatar. "They're
               | just pissing on us without even the courtesy of calling
               | it rain."
        
               | idle_zealot wrote:
               | There is something that this tactic misses: when people
               | try to do good things, the name of their organization or
               | policy is usually pretty honest. In an environment like
               | ours, though, that still means that your strategy of
               | assuming the opposite meaning has something like a 95%
               | expected success rate.
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | Including a shutdown mechanism and doing an annual risk
           | management review favors large incumbents?
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | The shutdown mechanism would have existed anyway and a
             | "risk management review" sounds exactly like the sort of
             | toothless policy that's supposed to make people feel better
             | without actually putting any limits or enforcement on the
             | industry
        
               | Onavo wrote:
               | Not to mention 100K in consultancy fees for compliance.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | Why would the industry need any limits or enforcement?
        
               | ctmnt wrote:
               | I can't tell if you're joking or not, but it's funny
               | either way.
        
             | derektank wrote:
             | Annual risk management reviews definitely favor large
             | incumbents. Large incumbents have the ability to hire and
             | maintain compliance teams. That burden is definitely a
             | barrier to entry to new competitors (though not an
             | insurmountable one).
        
               | lokar wrote:
               | But it only applies to AI controlling critical
               | infrastructure, you think this is an issue in practice?
               | 
               | I would think if a power plant deploys some AI model to
               | optimize something or other, it would be on the plant
               | operator to perform the reviews, regardless of who they
               | get the AI from.
        
           | terminalshort wrote:
           | There are no small businesses building data centers.
        
             | primax wrote:
             | Well, there probably are some in there. Data centre
             | designers, comms experts, architects, electricians, etc.
             | Lot of smaller organisations benefiting from the work.
        
           | noahbp wrote:
           | It's a good thing that businesses can make investment plans
           | with legible rules to follow. Too many communities are
           | blocking data centers for no good reason, and this preempts
           | NIMBYs and unreasonable local opposition.
           | 
           | "What about my water?"- not an issue in this area.
           | 
           | "What about my electric bill?"- we're signing long term
           | contracts with local power companies or building out our own
           | capacity; we eat the marginal costs and don't increase your
           | bill.
           | 
           | "What about noise?"- we're far enough away from the nearest
           | person that they cannot hear us; fans are x decibels at y
           | distance; not a problem.
           | 
           | "I saw on Facebook that data centers poison the water and spy
           | on me"- seek help, you cannot block us from building out and
           | giving you oodles of tax money for this nonsense reason.
        
             | dickersnoodle wrote:
             | "We don't want you here" sounds like a perfectly good
             | reason to me.
        
             | idiotsecant wrote:
             | There is an _incredibly_ good reason not to have
             | datacenters in montana - a whole lot of the additional load
             | will be from colstrip - one of the dirtiest coal mines left
             | in the United States.
        
             | flats wrote:
             | I don't think it counts as NIMBYism if you don't want it in
             | yours or anybody's backyard, ever. I would describe that as
             | principled opposition.
             | 
             | Also, what happens when we don't need such enormous data
             | centers anymore? How many communities in the U.S. are
             | saddled with enormous dead malls while the developers walk
             | away with zero liability?
        
             | soulofmischief wrote:
             | This research presentation from Benn Jordan will hopefully
             | change your mind on the noise issue and its consequences. I
             | highly recommend it.
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP80DEAbuo
        
             | seu wrote:
             | > giving you oodles of tax money for this nonsense reason.
             | 
             | You've never heard of tax avoidance, have you?
             | 
             | https://itep.org/trump-meta-tesla-alphabet-amazon-obbba-
             | taxe...
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | Damn I saw the headline and though it was a bill about
           | general computing
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | So it should be renamed Right to Datacenter Act. And here I
         | thought they were giving people power over their private
         | computers and being surveilled on them...
         | 
         | Reminds me of some bill in my state about Right to Farm and
         | when you looked deeper it was about rights for huge corporate
         | hog farms to dump waste in the rivers. The slimiest corps
         | always do this 1984 level double talk when they name their
         | bills. It's a dead giveaway. Citizens United, oh wow cool this
         | is about protecting citizens!
        
         | quotemstr wrote:
         | And is that supposed to be a bad thing?
        
           | saghm wrote:
           | At the very least, it's a bit weird to be calling it a Right
           | to Compute if the actual goal is to enable investments. It's
           | hard not to be concerned about whether it's even about
           | establishing a right at all, or if that's entirely posturing
           | to try to build support for something that isn't really about
           | rights at all. At that point, it's hard to trust anything
           | else they're saying about the motives, since they've
           | established that they're willing to fudge things to make it
           | harder to argue against.
           | 
           | The point isn't whether it's bad or good, but that it
           | establishes a pattern of inconsistency.
        
           | wsve wrote:
           | It's legislation to prevent the regulation of AI and data
           | centers. Yes, that's a bad thing
        
       | lukeschlather wrote:
       | I was really hoping this gave people the right to use their
       | computers, but it really looks like it simply prevents "the
       | government" from regulating the right to "make use of
       | computational resources." So Google or Apple can still prevent me
       | from using my phone for lawful purposes, the government just
       | can't regulate it (and the government might not be able to write
       | restrictions that prevent manufacturers from violating my right
       | to compute.)
        
         | einpoklum wrote:
         | Imagine if Montata required that all compute platforms sold in
         | the state to be free of user restriction: That they be amenable
         | to modification, that all source code, firmware and hardware
         | specs be open, and when that is not the case - the company
         | would be compelled to release the relevant information on pain
         | of having assets seized, required to refund payments etc. That
         | would have been a hoot :-)
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | Simply not sell to that state.
        
         | sophrosyne42 wrote:
         | Google or Apple only hold an ability to prevent you to use your
         | phone because the government itself enforces IP. So the
         | restriction against regulations in this bill is only a partial
         | and incomplete restriction against the government from
         | interfering with people's right to compute.
        
       | hnsdev wrote:
       | With laws such as the Brazilian one or the one proposed in New
       | York, I am curious to know what will be the future for computing.
       | On one hand, forbidding and limiting people from using computers
       | as they wish is somewhat impossible, as too many computers that
       | don't have restrictions have already been produced. You can
       | always use old hardware and, with open source projects, fork an
       | old version that will respect your right to compute. At some
       | point though it will be a problem as hardware no longer works and
       | software becomes incompatible with everything. The thing is that
       | those who will probably be doing it mostly are people that
       | already grew accustomed to not live in an Orwellian state, while,
       | on the other hand, newer generations will all be using new
       | systems with these restrictions, as if they were normal. The
       | smart ones will find ways of circumventing it (as if it wouldn't
       | be hard to get your parents CC and verify it as if you were over
       | 18).
       | 
       | Given that, they will be computing in a restrictive and
       | controlled environment. I feel sorry for them.
       | 
       | I am going to college (Computer Science) as an older student with
       | previous experience in programming, and it never ceases to amaze
       | me that the current generation of students doesn't think out of
       | the box and is completely dependent on ChatGPT. We all suffered
       | from conditioning from governments and corporations throughout
       | the years, but it is accelerating at an alarming rate.
       | 
       | Acts like this (the one from Montana) are positive, but
       | unfortunate that they simply have to exist and somewhat
       | irrelevant when the big dogs (California, New York and whole
       | countries such as Australia) approve legislation that will
       | promptly be followed by most companies/projects, which will in
       | turn force this way of things happening everywhere else.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | This won't touch age verification and surveillance laws, it's
         | not meant to protect people, it's meant to protect the
         | interests of capital
        
       | dynm wrote:
       | I think the main content of this law
       | (https://legiscan.com/MT/text/SB212/id/3212152) is just two
       | paragraphs. I'd suggest reading them yourself rather than relying
       | on secondary description:
       | 
       | "Government actions that restrict the ability to privately own or
       | make use of computational resources for lawful purposes, which
       | infringes on citizens' fundamental rights to property and free
       | expression, must be limited to those demonstrably necessary and
       | narrowly tailored to fulfill a compelling government interest."
       | 
       | "When critical infrastructure facilities are controlled in whole
       | or in part by a critical artificial intelligence system, the
       | deployer shall develop a risk management policy after deploying
       | the system that is reasonable and considers guidance and
       | standards in the latest version of the artificial intelligence
       | risk management framework from the national institute of
       | standards and technology, the ISO/IEC 4200 artificial
       | intelligence standard from the international organization for
       | standardization, or another nationally or internationally
       | recognized risk management framework for artificial intelligence
       | systems. A plan prepared under federal requirements constitutes
       | compliance with this section."
       | 
       | In particular, I think the reporting is straight wrong that
       | there's a shutdown requirement. That was in an earlier version
       | (https://legiscan.com/MT/text/SB212/id/3078731) and remains in
       | the _title_ of this version, but seems to have been removed from
       | the actual text.
        
         | RobRivera wrote:
         | So the government is afforded the opportunity to constrict
         | compute if for a government interest.
         | 
         | This bill seems to expand powers, not restrict
        
           | dynm wrote:
           | Before the law, I think the state government or local
           | governments could (by passing a law) restrict computing for
           | any reason, even without a government interest. Now, they'd
           | have to repeal this first.
        
             | RobRivera wrote:
             | How?
             | 
             | I know the whole 90s meme of 'I am a controlled munition'
             | went around because cryptography was labeled an ordnance
             | subject to export control laws, and therefore code that
             | performed those kind of computations were forbidden to be
             | sold abroad, liable to a felony.
             | 
             | What happens today? Government gets rights to source code,
             | logs, and rubber stamps/rejects your code from executing in
             | the cloud?
             | 
             | Government limits your access to commodity infrastructure?
        
               | dynm wrote:
               | How? By default, state governments can pass basically
               | whatever laws they want. They don't have (theoretically)
               | limited enumerated powers like the federal government.
        
               | RobRivera wrote:
               | Im not asking for policy mechanics, I'm asking for
               | implementation detail clarification.
        
               | lokar wrote:
               | djb had to (with the EFF) spend years in court to
               | establish (on appeal) that writing crypto code was a
               | speech issue:
               | 
               | https://www.eff.org/cases/bernstein-v-us-dept-justice
               | 
               | Laws like this make it much simpler for someone to
               | challenge a law or regulation. They don't have to
               | convince the judge (and possibly appeals court) that
               | building or using a computer is a form of protected
               | expression, this law says it is.
               | 
               | It may seem kind of flimsy or non-consequential, but
               | while it's not a massive change, it is a really change
               | and it's constructive.
        
         | toomanystraws wrote:
         | "... the deployer shall develop a risk management policy after
         | deploying the system...."
         | 
         | This is a complete sham. Anything really geared towards
         | protecting people would have protections in place before
         | deployment.
        
         | scuff3d wrote:
         | When you contextualize the law with comments like this
         | 
         | "The initiative... contrasts with recent restrictive
         | legislation efforts in states like California and Virginia.
         | Zolnikov, a noted advocate for privacy, has been instrumental
         | in pushing for tech-friendly policies that ensure individual
         | liberties in an evolving digital landscape.
         | 
         | "'As governments around the world and in our own country try to
         | crack down on individual freedom and gain state control over
         | modern technologies,' Zolnikov said. 'Montana is doing the
         | opposite by protecting freedom and restraining the
         | government.'"
         | 
         | And it's the normal framing we always see with this crap. This
         | is more an attempt to protect corporations from regulation then
         | it is to protect individuals.
        
         | torginus wrote:
         | Ah, finally something that the common man wants. A mandatory
         | risk management strategy compliant with ISO/IEC guidelines
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | Hmmm. "[...] the deployer shall develop a risk management
         | policy after deploying the system [...]".
         | 
         | I wonder why it is _after_ rather than _before_?
        
       | hermannj314 wrote:
       | When a "right to..." law is passed, there is usually an
       | accompanying narrative that explains a past injustice that will
       | be corrected. Matthew Shepard hate crime, Civil Rights Voting
       | act, etc.
       | 
       | The absence of such a story makes me think this law doesn't
       | protect shit. What exactly did a Montanian get killed or arrested
       | trying to do with a computer that is now protected? Can I use AI
       | during a traffic stop or use AI to surveil and doxx governemnt
       | employees? What exactly is the government giving up by granting
       | me this right?
       | 
       | Or is this just about supressing opposition to data centers?
        
         | culi wrote:
         | Yeah I think it's pretty obviously the AI industry trying to
         | ban its own regulation
         | 
         | > Nationally, the Right to Compute movement is gaining
         | traction. Spearheaded by the grassroots group
         | RightToCompute.ai, the campaign argues that computation -- like
         | speech and property -- is a fundamental human right. "A
         | computer is an extension of the human capacity to think," the
         | organization states.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | Regulation is just regulatory capture by incumbents and also
           | a national security risk.
        
             | hdgvhicv wrote:
             | You argue that food safety tellregialtikns are just
             | regularity capture?
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Aggravatingly, some of it is. The organic food
               | regulations are impossible for the small farmers who
               | invented the idea. Only mega corps can do it, and their
               | definition is not much better (if at all) than industrial
               | farms.
               | 
               | It's still way better than Upton Sinclair's time. But it
               | would be nice if the FDA and USDA were run by people who
               | eat rather than sell food.
        
               | dismalaf wrote:
               | To start a restaurant where I live it's $50k in fees and
               | mandatory paperwork before you can even get a
               | construction permit. Alot of it is, yes.
               | 
               | And none of it prevents bad food handling practices by
               | minimum wage staff.
        
             | lucianbr wrote:
             | Looks like this one might be while in general the rule does
             | not hold. Good regulations exist, and so do bad ones.
             | Arguments without nuance often do more harm than good to
             | your side.
        
           | staplers wrote:
           | computation -- like speech and property -- is a fundamental
           | human right
           | 
           | Computation however requires a vast supply chain where
           | certain middlemen have a near monopoly on distribution of
           | said "fundamental right". The incentives for lobbyists seems
           | clear.
           | 
           | I don't necessarily disagree with the idea, but until profit
           | is shared with taxpayers, this is a one-way transaction of
           | taxpayers bankrolling AI companies.
        
             | terminalshort wrote:
             | I find your claim that there is a monopoly on computing
             | laughable. No other technology has improved in quality or
             | dropped in price as much as computers over the last 40
             | years. If this what you get from a monopoly, then we need
             | more monopolies.
        
         | akersten wrote:
         | Eh, if states can pass restrictive laws on AI in absence of a
         | correspondingly negative motivating event, I don't see any
         | contradiction in doing the opposite.
        
           | moate wrote:
           | >>absence of a correspondingly negative motivating event.
           | 
           | You don't think there's reasons pass laws banning
           | AI...datacenters?
           | 
           | Because what state is banning the concept of AI? They're
           | banning/restricting the creation of a type of infrastructure
           | within their borders because they feel that is detrimental to
           | their citizens. Maybe it's NIMBY/Luditte BS to you, but
           | people not wanting their resources to go help ensure some
           | dork can have a chat-bot girlfriend seems normal to me.
        
             | akersten wrote:
             | I didn't say any of that in my comment nor express an
             | opinion about this whole thing writ large. I'm only
             | pointing out that it's not weird for legislature to preempt
             | a real world use case by way of pointing out similar laws.
        
               | moate wrote:
               | I'm going to do this again:
               | 
               | >>>>absence of a correspondingly negative motivating
               | event.
               | 
               | What did you mean? Why do you believe there has not been
               | a motivating event to ban data centers when those bans
               | have happened, which is literally what you said?
        
               | akersten wrote:
               | In the context of the discussion a correspondingly
               | negative event would have been along the lines of "we
               | built a data center and then it exploded, we need to make
               | sure that doesn't happen." Not "we're worried about the
               | effects the data center might have," which is vis a vis
               | to "we're worried about the effects banning ai might
               | have." All I'm saying is neither of those last two are
               | weird reasons to enact a law.
               | 
               | GP was insisting that "rights" named laws always come
               | after some negative event and it is weird that we have
               | this "rights" named law without someone being deprived of
               | their computation or whatever. I'm disagreeing with the
               | premise that that's weird by pointing out laws preempt
               | real world events all the time, in either direction
               | (restrictive or permissive).
        
             | hparadiz wrote:
             | I'm already running an LLM locally. This is just me renting
             | space in a data center. Since when did we restrict people's
             | ability to do things? For the record my local models run
             | off the solar bolted to my roof. Even including the data
             | center I'm using 1/10th of the energy we were using on tube
             | monitors back in the 90s. This is exhausting. My GPU would
             | be demonstrably using more power by playing a videogame
             | right now than when I run a local LLM.
        
               | jrmg wrote:
               | _Since when did we restrict people 's ability to do
               | things?_
               | 
               | This question is not the obvious winner you think it is.
               | To me, and I am sure many, it sort of undermines your
               | argument.
               | 
               | Even in the most 'free' cultures, society has _always_
               | restricted people's individual ability to do things that
               | it collectively deems harmful to the whole society.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | This is literally why America was founded. Too many
               | people stifle innovation. Move to Europe if you want to
               | be stuck in the 20th century frankly. That doesn't mean
               | we can't take care of folks. But the ludites need to get
               | the fuck out of the way. You're all exhausting.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | America was founded because rich people didn't want to
               | pay taxes.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | If it wasn't for America you'd still be using a shovel
               | and hoe instead of writing code for a living.
        
               | calgoo wrote:
               | Please, don't be so negative about the rest of the world.
               | No one has any idea what would have happened if the US
               | did not create their country the way they did. This is
               | the same level of under-appreciation of humans that the
               | ancient aliens people have when they say its impossible
               | for humans to have built the pyramids. Lets be
               | constructive instead of just hating on everyone else
               | please.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | I was born in Europe. I know this for a fact. The
               | difference in "can do" culture between old world and new
               | world is everything. There's a reason Europe still
               | doesn't have a self landing rocket. They aren't even
               | trying. It's crabs in a bucket mentality writ large. I
               | wish it weren't so. Yet it is.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | It's partially true but it's not as true as doomers would
               | like. It's not America: innovation=yes, Europe:
               | innovation=no. Most of the American innovation came from
               | a small number of very rich people. It has a lot of very
               | poor people as a consequence.
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | > Most of the American innovation came from a small
               | number of very rich people
               | 
               | Replace "came from" with "was purchased by" or "was
               | copied by an entity with the resources to push the
               | inventor out of the market" and you're getting a lot
               | closer.
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | >Since when did we restrict people's ability to do
               | things?
               | 
               | When those things impact other people - such as by
               | skyrocketing utility prices, overloading the electrical
               | grid, and more.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | I thought this was a free market? Or is that not how
               | things work anymore?
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | Never has been. A totally free market doesn't work and
               | has failed every time it was tried. You want one today,
               | go set up shop in Somalia.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | I can't respect that opinion. It's full of holes.
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | Holes such as what?
               | 
               | There have always been rules and laws. The US has never
               | been a totally free market. Most of the laws and rules we
               | have were written in blood by people professing a "free
               | market" right to poison our people, rivers, air, and
               | more.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | America was largely a free market until the 1920s. Since
               | then more regulations have actually increased the cost of
               | living. The healthcare problem in America has a lot to do
               | with increased regulations. For one we have a fixed limit
               | on how many doctors can graduate every year. That was put
               | in place by the medical lobby in the US. Ever since then
               | healthcare costs have increased exponentially. Tale as
               | old as time. This happens with every single new rule put
               | in place. Rent control does the same thing. Prices just
               | go up. This includes NIMBY laws.
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | The US does not limit the number of doctors that can
               | graduate. The limit is on the number of residencies
               | funded by medicare. If the private sector wanted more
               | doctors in order to pay doctors less, they could just
               | offer paid residencies themselves. Somehow the free
               | market hasn't solved that one. This ignores that doctors'
               | salaries aren't a significant cause of the problems and
               | insurance companies are the true root of high prices.
               | 
               | Rent control stabilizes prices while more supply can be
               | built, because it is in the interests of society for
               | people to be able to afford to live, and we can't will
               | additional buildings into place overnight. High eviction
               | rates destroy communities and have many negative side
               | effects.
               | 
               | In the absence of regulation, corporations lie, cheat,
               | and steal, and have a massive power imbalance against
               | ordinary people. No one has enough time and energy to
               | research every option for everything in their daily life,
               | and they rely on laws to establish safety measures they
               | can rely on.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | Oh you're one of those. You actually believe rent control
               | works in the face of overwhelming evidence that all is
               | does is increase the cost of housing. Fascinating.
               | Pointless talking to you.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | What are the holes? There are places today with no
               | government - perfect free markets. If you think perfect
               | free markets are awesome, you can move there and do
               | business there. It's a bit like telling someone who loves
               | communism to go to China.
        
               | balamatom wrote:
               | An absolute free market would, by definition, permit the
               | selling of the service "restrict someone's freedom for
               | me".
               | 
               | Not sure if that leaves it a free market. So if we're
               | gonna be talking holes in the cheese - seems like you're
               | reasoning in terms of a basically self-contradictory
               | notion.
               | 
               | But truly, what do you reckon about the 1st point, in
               | terms of the interpretation of market freedom which you
               | use?
        
               | moate wrote:
               | >>when did we restrict people's abilities to do things?
               | That's literally what most laws are, saying what you can
               | and can't do. This is like, a foundational understanding
               | of what government/regulation is.
               | 
               | >>this is just me renting space... Okay, so a "network
               | effect" is when things have greater impact due to larger
               | usage. So the data center usage that you're talking about
               | does not represent the overall impact of the data center.
               | Saying "I only pour ONE cup of bleach into the ocean, so
               | I don't see why it's so bad to have the bleach factory
               | pump all its waste in as well" is a WILD take.
        
               | sumeno wrote:
               | > Since when did we restrict people's ability to do
               | things?
               | 
               | At least 4000 years ago, but that's just the earliest we
               | have evidence for
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | I don't think you understand the qualifier. I meant in
               | the tradition of liberal free markets that have unlocked
               | human potential on the global scale. I'm saying no it's
               | actually _good_ that you don 't have to ask the local
               | government when you want to do something. If American
               | style free markets didn't gain traction we'd still be
               | doing subsistence farming.
        
               | tadfisher wrote:
               | The thing is, since we recognized that such a tradition
               | led to the unfettered destruction of the natural
               | environment which we depend upon to survive, we have
               | decided that local governments should be responsible for
               | preserving said environment by regulating the destructive
               | actions performed by the liberal free market. Not doing
               | so will even destroy our ability to perform subsistence
               | farming in the long run.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | So far all I hear is complaining about electricity
               | prices. No one actually cares about the "environment".
               | They are just mad that the KW/h is up 3 cents.
        
             | baggy_trough wrote:
             | > Maybe it's NIMBY/Luditte BS to you, but people not
             | wanting their resources to go help ensure some dork can
             | have a chat-bot girlfriend seems normal to me.
             | 
             | Why would it be your business, or anyone else's, to stop
             | someone from doing this?
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | Because these data centers are at best overstressing
               | utility grids and elevating prices for everyone and at
               | worse running dirty generators and poisoning entire
               | communities, for a start.
        
               | 15155 wrote:
               | Oh no, we couldn't possibly generate more power!
               | Impossible! We're at our limit!
               | 
               | China has 100 reactors under construction - meanwhile in
               | the West, folks like you exist.
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | If the businesses that want data centers want to pay the
               | full construction costs for the new power plants, great.
               | Otherwise consumers are paying for them in the rates they
               | pay to energy companies.
               | 
               | It should not be considered shocking or controversial
               | that people already hit hard by corporate greed and other
               | effects of late-stage capitalism don't want to pay higher
               | utility rates to subsidize the data centers being built
               | by megacorporations who want to take away even more of
               | their jobs.
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | Why should we stop there? Let's ban people flying on
             | vacations, because why should our resources go towards some
             | dork laying out in the sun? Air travel is horribly
             | wasteful. Let's ban people racing cars, that is also
             | wasteful. We shouldn't be using our resources to drive in
             | circles.
             | 
             | How do we pick which activities are worth using resources?
             | Which ones are too 'dorky' to allow?
             | 
             | Look, I am all for pricing the externalities into resource
             | consumption. Tax carbon production, to make sure energy
             | consumption is sustainable, but don't dictate which uses of
             | energy are acceptable or 'worth it', because I don't want
             | only mainstream things to be allowed.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | so the jobs have to be lost _first_ , then we can ban it?
        
             | sroussey wrote:
             | Just like when musicians were on strike and the radio
             | people decided to play a recording over the air (gasp! a
             | record!) rather than live performances.
             | 
             | A nice ban on playing recorded music would have saved those
             | jobs.
        
               | gosub100 wrote:
               | Bad example. You are agreeing that copyright is owned by
               | the people whose work an AI agent is trained on. Sure,
               | come take a class of jobs, and then pay them in
               | perpetuity to _license_ the exposition of their work. For
               | 75 years after the authors death, just like current
               | copyright.
        
             | Ukv wrote:
             | If the idea was that laws must be motivated by a negative
             | occurrence rather than preemptive, then that'd follow yeah
             | (if counting job loss as a reason to ban something, which I
             | think is questionable). But note akersten is saying that
             | it's normal for laws to be preemptive in both cases.
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | Job loss is a horrible reason to ban something. Think about
             | our history if we always did that. We would all be stuck
             | working on farms today, because we didn't want to allow
             | tractors or other machinery because it would take away
             | farming jobs.
             | 
             | Instead of banning tech to save jobs, pass laws that make
             | sure tech prices in externalities (tax carbon emissions),
             | and find other ways to assist people who lose jobs (UBI,
             | good social safety nets, etc).
             | 
             | Don't stifle progress just because it makes us have to work
             | less.
        
               | ukuina wrote:
               | Car dealerships would like a word.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | Another example why these types of laws make things worse
               | for people.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | Right - fix the economy instead. Why should increasing
               | efficiency cause people to have _less_ resources - that
               | makes no sense.
        
               | Joker_vD wrote:
               | Because there are people who live off rent (in a broad
               | sense of this world), and there are people who live off
               | selling their ability to work. Increased efficiency and
               | productivity may or may not benefit the second kind of
               | people, depending on whether they can sell their labour
               | to be used for something else.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | So instead of figuring out ways to limit the ability of
               | people to live off rent, we want to ban beneficial things
               | that people could extract rent from?
               | 
               | This is like saying, "We don't like how landlords extract
               | value from housing, so we are banning apartment
               | buildings"
        
               | gosub100 wrote:
               | Banning AI does increase efficiency. It makes it more
               | efficient for a working class family to afford to
               | survive. What perverted definition of the word were you
               | considering?
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | How is this different from saying "Banning mechanical
               | farm equipment does increase efficiency, it makes it more
               | efficient for farm workers to afford to survive"
               | 
               | You are fighting against productivity improvements when
               | you should be fighting against people hoarding the
               | benefits of productivity improvements.
        
               | gosub100 wrote:
               | That doesn't answer my question. My claim is that people
               | working _is_ efficient.
        
               | pocksuppet wrote:
               | A carpenter using a hand saw instead of a power saw just
               | to keep more carpenters employed is not being efficient.
               | It's Pareto-better to keep all those carpenters employed,
               | earning the same salary for fewer hours.
        
               | TimorousBestie wrote:
               | > Job loss is a horrible reason to ban something. Think
               | about our history if we always did that.
               | 
               | The US has continually set up protectionist policies to
               | preserve a local workforce. Automotive manufacturers, the
               | shipbuilding industry, etc.
        
               | tt24 wrote:
               | These are bad things
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | > if states can pass restrictive laws on AI in absence of a
           | correspondingly negative motivating event...
           | 
           | If you mean besides the extensive harm to air quality, the
           | large land fingerprint of data centers, the massive strain on
           | water resources and treatment facilities, the insane
           | electricity demands resulting in skyrocketing prices pushed
           | onto everyone else, the deafening noise pollution, and what
           | they've done to the price of RAM, then sure. And that's just
           | the data centers!
           | 
           | The usage of AI itself has resulted in all kinds of harm and
           | even actual deaths. AI has wrongfully denied people
           | healthcare coverage they were entitled to preventing or
           | delaying needed surgeries and treatments. There's a growing
           | list of LLM related suicides
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_linked_to_chatbots).
           | The use of AI in parole systems has kept people locked behind
           | bars when they shouldn't have been due to biases in the bots
           | making decisions. AI used for self-driving driving cars have
           | killed pedestrians and other drivers. There are thousands of
           | AI generated harms tracked here: https://airisk.mit.edu/ai-
           | incident-tracker
        
             | tt24 wrote:
             | God I hate safetyism
        
             | terminalshort wrote:
             | What a load of shit. I have relatives in Ashburn VA, the
             | data center capital of the world, and none of these
             | negative effects are anything but NIMBY bullshit.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | Yeah, I'm going to believe the many many documented cases
               | of these problems in VA alone over your non-example
               | 
               | https://www.businessinsider.com/living-next-to-data-
               | centers-...
               | 
               | https://www.businessinsider.com/data-centers-northern-
               | virgin...
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/15/opinion/data-centers-
               | ai-a...
               | 
               | https://virginiamercury.com/2026/02/19/legislature-
               | considers...
               | 
               | https://www.wdbj7.com/2026/02/04/virginia-lawmakers-look-
               | add...
               | 
               | https://news.vcu.edu/article/northern-virginia-data-
               | center-a...
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | OK, so datacenters are turning it into an unliveable
               | shithole...
               | 
               | > Loudon counts itself among the fastest-growing counties
               | in America with a population over 100,000. Homeowners
               | have watched the median sales price rise more than 70%
               | over the past decade.
               | 
               | Well, there you go, right from one of your ragebait
               | journalism articles. People who are bitter and hate their
               | lives are always looking for something to blame for it,
               | and the most popular thing to blame is the new thing that
               | is in the news. And the click whores that some people
               | call "journalists" will be right there to meet the
               | demand. But it's all bullshit as the massive rise in home
               | values in the area reveals the truth.
        
         | Eridrus wrote:
         | This is mostly signaling, but NY is currently considering a law
         | to prevent AI systems from giving legal and medical advice:
         | https://statescoop.com/new-york-bill-would-ban-chatbots-lega...
        
           | arendtio wrote:
           | I don't think that this is a good idea. For medical
           | applications, I can understand that LLMs are not the best
           | solution, since they are so bad with numbers/probabilities.
           | But for legal advice, I think they should be pretty good.
           | 
           | So the only reason I can think of to forbid such use cases is
           | that people in those professions fear being replaced by
           | machines.
        
             | hermannj314 wrote:
             | Preventable medical errors kill 250,000 American every
             | year, I can imagine LLMs could be both good and bad for
             | that number, but on net, it is hard to say without just
             | guessing. But if you ban the application of LLMs to medical
             | care, you close that door before even seeing the potential
             | on the other side. I think that is absurd.
        
               | jlarocco wrote:
               | I don't think that conclusion really follows because I
               | don't think the ban works that way.
               | 
               | There's a big difference between ChatGPT writing a
               | prescription and a doctor double checking his diagnosis
               | using some kind of Claude code for medicine. ChatGPT
               | writing prescriptions and giving medical device directly
               | to people should absolutely be prohibited for now, but
               | the second approach should be encouraged.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | (2025)
        
       | culi wrote:
       | Repost from 4 months ago here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45865289
       | 
       | TL;DR: Basically the AI industry trying to ban governments from
       | regulating it
        
       | preinheimer wrote:
       | What about a "right to create act" giving people the right to
       | create things and not have their creation be ingested to train ai
       | for billion dollar companies?
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | Some sort of pre-emptive _auto-opt-AI 't_.
         | 
         | It's ridiculous that AIco's arguments are dwindling down to
         | "it's not copyright infringement to ingest others' work and
         | make 'derivatives' [which often are identical to original
         | authors' works]."
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | We desperately need younger politicians, who can not only keep
         | up with information _more sharply_ (i.e. aren 't legally
         | decades-retireable), but also are of the age where their own
         | children are being affected by government re-funding flows
         | _away from youth /education/future_.
         | 
         | At this point I'm willing to concede that our future probably
         | has companies' individual LLM/genAI products competing against
         | one-another, as digital politicians ["the digital pimp, hard at
         | work... we have needs"--Matrix' Mouse]. Nobody knows how either
         | flesh nor silicon congressmen work, inside; but I think the
         | latter could act _more human[e]ly_...
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | Do you believe that for younger people this question (about
           | derivativeness) is clearly settled? If so, how?
        
             | ProllyInfamous wrote:
             | I would hypothesize that _younger people are less-inclined
             | to feel guilty about using pirate TV services_. I think
             | they 're also more invested in the future, and aware of
             | dangerous technology's pre-eminence.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | OK, but what about "LLM-generated work is clearly
               | derivative of the training material" ?
        
       | selectively wrote:
       | The tragedy is that 'right to compute' is such a great name for
       | something actually useful. Requiring OEMs to allow users to load
       | any OS they want, requiring OEMs to allow full control over a
       | device/OS ('root access') etc.
       | 
       | Instead, it's wasted on AI slop.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Yeah, "you can own compute hardware" doesn't really help if
         | nobody makes hardware that can be owned.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | "Write to Computer 2.0" sounds good to me. Might as well
         | slipstream.
         | 
         | The "Citizen Right to Compute" complement to the "Data Center
         | Right to Compute".
         | 
         | Use the latter as leverage for the former. What politician
         | wants to be seen downvoting (comparable) individual's right
         | they already gave to data centers?
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | This is a law designed to force data centers to be built. This is
       | nothing but a bipartisan corporate handout. Nothing to celebrate.
       | The law makers should be ashamed.
       | 
       | EDIT for the downvoters, from the law:
       | 
       | > Any restrictions placed by the government on the ability to
       | privately own or make use of computational resources for lawful
       | purposes must be limited to those demonstrably necessary and
       | narrowly tailored to fulfill a compelling government interest in
       | public health or safety.
       | 
       | This basically means you can't use government action to stop the
       | building of a data-center.
        
         | Vaslo wrote:
         | Maybe some people disagree with governments interfering with
         | this - not saying that's how I feel but that could be the
         | downvote reason.
         | 
         | Your explanation seems reasonable.
        
       | xbar wrote:
       | Do I have to back in age verification to my OS?
        
       | 152334H wrote:
       | > Apr 21, 2025
       | 
       | why is this posted now?
        
       | kid64 wrote:
       | What an egregiously disingenous piece of legislation. Not
       | surprised.
        
       | j2kun wrote:
       | The article is full of PR-speak. What is really going on in this
       | law?
        
       | elophanto_agent wrote:
       | montana: where you can compute freely but the nearest data center
       | is 400 miles away and the latency is measured in geological
       | epochs
        
       | carlsborg wrote:
       | This is why Montana Civil Defense survives when skynet goes
       | rogue.
        
       | cat_plus_plus wrote:
       | So what does liberal even mean these days? California is passing
       | bs like age verification in OS and Montana is protecting my right
       | to leave the way I want in my own home, running whatever AI
       | models suit me as long as I am not bothering anyone. That's just
       | another "none of government business" personal freedom issue like
       | pot or sexuality, why aren't blue states all over it. And yes,
       | using tuned LLMs can be like an acid trip, but the distance
       | between having a trip at home and tangible harm is much greater
       | than in the case of access to guns, knives, power tools, cars and
       | rodent poison yet at least some of these are widely available to
       | law abiding citizens in every state. Government interventions can
       | be staged at the points where there is evidence of actual
       | imminent harm, like problematic public behavior. Why are
       | Democrats the new "Reefer Madness" pearl clutchers and why should
       | I still believe they have anything to do with living the way you
       | want?
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | 1) Right now, as things stand, the Democrats are our only
         | alternative to something far more evil. Until we ratify a new
         | constitution which implements a proportional, parliamentary
         | government, the two-party system means you have to pick the
         | lesser of two evils. In the interim maybe we can banish the
         | Republican party to a niche constituency of openly
         | reprehensible racists and bigots, and set up the Democrats as
         | the new right wing and the Greens as the new left wing, but
         | right now it is morally incumbent upon every American to vote
         | Democrat.
         | 
         | 2) Read your Marx. Liberty doesn't arrive from toxic
         | individualism, it arrives from the fulfillment of man's nature
         | as a social-creative animal. AI is a tool used by the
         | bourgeoisie to further alienate us from each other; as is
         | right-libertarian individualism.
        
       | dlev_pika wrote:
       | They are so proud to hand over all control to the corporations,
       | while pretending this is a consumer protection centered build -
       | wild
        
       | arjie wrote:
       | One of America's greatest strengths is the structure of it as a
       | federation. It allows for states like this to take the lead in
       | expanding datacenter infrastructure while other states can choose
       | to shutdown such expansions. This was perhaps more significant in
       | COVID-19 reactions in America, but datacenters have few such
       | externalities and so this is an even more compelling example of
       | variation between states.
       | 
       | The scaling of federal power with population is also significant
       | as states like Texas that allow for more housing to be built will
       | probably receive more seats at the next apportionment while
       | states like California will lose seats. Overall, pretty neat to
       | see the design of America work quite well like this.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | I generally agree with this idea, but
         | 
         | > but datacenters have few such externalities
         | 
         | Is wild. Energy consumption is one of the biggest externalities
         | that exists today, since global climate change is completely
         | independent of location. Greenhouse gases do not care about
         | borders.
        
           | tadfisher wrote:
           | Also wild when Musk is freebasing methane in Tennessee with
           | zero consequences.
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | While it is not a true "externality", data center use of water
         | is a strong community/regional cost that effectively removes 1
         | person/1 vote. Those with the financial resources to buy more
         | water get the water, those without do not.
         | 
         | Perhaps you think that the distribution of financial resources
         | reflects what is in society's best interests - that Meta,
         | Google et al. have demonstrated their utility in ways that make
         | them literally more important than people with insufficient
         | wealth to outbid those companies for water.
         | 
         | Many of us do not.
        
           | polski-g wrote:
           | "Datacenter water usage" is a comment I'd expect to see on
           | Reddit--not a VC forum with allegedly intelligent people.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | I live in New Mexico. I do not consider Hacker News to be a
             | VC forum. For what it's worth (which is very little), I was
             | employee #2 at amzn if I need some sort of credentials to
             | get you to respond constructively to my point rather than
             | with some hand-wavey ad hominem.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | > For what it's worth (which is very little), I was
               | employee #2 at amzn
               | 
               | Reminds me of a quote from some otherwise forgettable
               | movie I saw: "My father left me with very little, except
               | for all his money."
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | By "worth" in this context, I mean "authority to speak in
               | a context claimed to be limited to a certain kind of
               | person" (a limitation I do not acknowledge exists on HN,
               | or anywhere, really).
               | 
               | For the record, my net worth increased by about $1M
               | before taxes based on the 1 year of options I got at
               | amzn. But not relevant in this context.
        
           | terminalshort wrote:
           | What fictional universe do you live in where people are not
           | getting water because they have been outbid by some data
           | center? As for commercial use of water, we absolutely should
           | do it that way instead of the archaic water rights system we
           | have now.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | It's not a fictional universe. It is precisely the waters
             | rights system you've mentioned. Capital-rich entity buys
             | water senior water rights, extracts water, others find
             | their wells descending/drying.
             | 
             | This hasn't happened yet in New Mexico _with a data center_
             | because these are new. But it has happened numerous times
             | with other capital-rich entities that have bought water
             | rights (sometimes, just cities buying rights from adjacent
             | rural county land).
             | 
             | A small community near where I live no longer has
             | functioning wells because new residential construction
             | below them sucked the water out of the aquifer. They tried
             | to drill deeper, without much success. County is now having
             | to build a water line to the community.
        
       | matheusmoreira wrote:
       | Pointless and deceptive. A real "right to compute" law would ban
       | remote attestation, would ban discrimination against users based
       | on the "trustworthiness" of their systems, would force companies
       | to allow custom software and firmware as well as provide
       | technical documentation and specifications to users so they can
       | repair and modify the systems they bought.
        
         | tt24 wrote:
         | Wrong. This is not how rights work.
         | 
         | You have the right to not provide custom software and firmware
         | and technical documentation, the right to enforce remote
         | attestation, and the right to refuse service to whoever you
         | wish.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | >You have the right to not provide custom software and
           | firmware and technical documentation,
           | 
           | Just like all food sellers have the right not to provide
           | documentation on the ingredients and nutrition of their
           | products?
        
             | tt24 wrote:
             | Correct. I buy food from vendors on the beach in foreign
             | countries - it has no documentation. It's a consensual
             | transaction I choose to engage in.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | Your right to do all that should be taken away. Our freedom
           | to own our computers is more important than your right to
           | punish us for trying to do so by banishing us from digital
           | society via remote attestation. Your only option should be to
           | accept that we own our computers and deal with us on those
           | terms. Refusing to do so should be criminalized on the same
           | level as racism.
        
             | tt24 wrote:
             | You have the freedom to own a computer.
             | 
             | > Refusing to do so should be criminalized on the same
             | level as racism.
             | 
             | Racism isn't criminal? At least not in any country anyone
             | wants to live in lol
        
       | jamesgill wrote:
       | _" The initiative, propelled by advocacy from State Senator
       | Daniel Zolnikov and organizations like the Frontier Institute"_
       | 
       | Always follow the money:
       | https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Frontier_Institute
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | Excuse me, the article states that this bill was signed on april
       | 17th of last year. How has this become suddenly relevant now?
       | 
       | I would say considering there has been almost a year since this
       | bill was signed, what happened since then? Was it applied to hurt
       | people's interests? Did it drive investment?
       | 
       | Are Montanans demonstrably better or worse off because of this in
       | some way?
        
       | bradley13 wrote:
       | Most of the comments are cynical. I read this, at least the
       | "right to compute" part, as a reaction to the current onslaught
       | of censorship and age verification laws. Which is a good thing.
       | 
       | The AI part honestly looks fairly harmless, just applying
       | existing standards, but I may be wrong there...
        
       | geon wrote:
       | So drm is now illegal?
        
         | artninja1988 wrote:
         | IANAL but iirc DRM is governed by federal law, specifically the
         | DMCA. A state law cant override a federal statute, so even if
         | Montana's law were interpreted very broadly, it couldnt nullify
         | the DMCA
        
       | elgertam wrote:
       | Montana is both cold and sparely populated, so I figure data
       | centers would be good there. Also, I figure Zefram Cochrane could
       | use all that compute for his warp theories in a few decades.
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | I expect that access to inexpensive energy is more important
         | than the population density, typical ambient or "favorable"
         | state laws (this law doesn't seem to really do all that much).
         | 
         | Like the region I live in is cold and has lots of water, but we
         | import energy, might as well build closer to the regional mega
         | cities (where it is still relatively cold, with relatively
         | abundant water). There is some kerfuffle going on in the county
         | here about preventing data centers, and I can't imagine there
         | is even anyone interested in building one.
        
       | muyuu wrote:
       | I want a right to compute without having to identify myself, or
       | otherwise give any information about myself to the computing
       | system itself.
       | 
       | I was hoping for that as a reaction to the current tyrannical
       | movements worldwide to end anonymous personal computing.
        
       | comet_browser wrote:
       | The interesting structural tension here is that "Right to
       | Compute" framing appeals to individualist/property-rights
       | instincts, but the actual beneficiaries are hyperscalers and
       | large data center operators. Individual compute rights already
       | exist -- nobody is stopping you from running a server.
       | 
       | What the bill actually does (based on typical legislation of this
       | type) is preempt local zoning and environmental review for large
       | compute facilities. That's a legitimate policy choice, but
       | calling it a "right" is doing a lot of rhetorical work.
       | 
       | For comparison: Wyoming and Texas have done similar things for
       | data centers via tax incentives rather than regulatory
       | preemption. Both approaches get data centers built; they just
       | differ in who captures the value.
        
       | Nekorosu wrote:
       | Is it for citizens or billionaire citizens?
        
       | mdx97 wrote:
       | I encourage anyone here to just read the bill text instead of
       | this article. It will pretty clearly resolve any confusion caused
       | by this article.
        
       | philipallstar wrote:
       | Positive rights are stupid.
        
       | kevin061 wrote:
       | "right to compute"
       | 
       | Oh cool!
       | 
       |  _Look inside_
       | 
       | No mention of:
       | 
       | - Self-repair
       | 
       | - Self-service
       | 
       | - Hardware and software modifications
       | 
       | - Protecting consumers from proprietary anti-circumvention tools
       | 
       | - Bolstering open source
       | 
       | - Better access to technology in early ages (through funding
       | primary schools and libraries)
       | 
       | - Dedicated computer and Internet crisis response teams to tackle
       | disinformation, cyberattacks, cyberbullying, and state-sponsored
       | attacks
       | 
       | - Improving citizen's access to End-to-End encryption software -
       | Sovereign AI and software
       | 
       | Very cool, Montana. What a load of nothing.
        
       | redgridtactical wrote:
       | The name "Right to Compute" implies this protects individual
       | users, but the actual text reads more like a shield for
       | datacenter operators against local zoning and environmental
       | review. Worth reading the bill itself (SB 212) before
       | celebrating. The "after deployment" risk management requirement
       | for critical infrastructure AI systems is also pretty toothless.
       | Safety frameworks that kick in after you're already running seem
       | backwards.
        
       | mwkaufma wrote:
       | "Datacenters are people, too!"
        
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