[HN Gopher] The Bovadium Fragments: Together with The Origin of ...
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The Bovadium Fragments: Together with The Origin of Bovadium
Author : freediver
Score : 40 points
Date : 2026-03-08 18:09 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (kirkcenter.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (kirkcenter.org)
| mplanchard wrote:
| Wow what a treat, previously unreleased tolkien satire on one of
| my own hobby-horses. Put in an order with my local bookstore, so
| excited to read this!
| seanhunter wrote:
| It's fair to say that after all the descriptions of the shire vs
| isengard etc in the LoTR, his position on mechanization and cars
| isn't very surprising, but it's quite extraordinary for this to
| show up.
| reillyse wrote:
| Tolkien really was a serious reactionary.
|
| I'm not a fan of cars or environmental damage but the idyll that
| he puts on a pedestal just didn't exist for the vast majority of
| humans in Britain (let alone elsewhere in the world)
| shrubble wrote:
| The Cotswolds documented at their tail end (ended by the
| motorcycle and car) by Laurie Lee in "Cider With Rosie" had
| about the same existence for centuries.
| reillyse wrote:
| I would push back on that concept a bit. I think if you lived
| in the Cotswolds in say 1920 you would be agog with the pace
| of change. Bicycles, industry, exploration the world even
| literacy. Everything around you was changing and the idea
| that this place was unchanged is simply not true.
|
| Somebody in 1820 might not be able to read but by 1920
| literacy had hit 96-97% (numbers for the UK in general),
| books became far more common etc etc
|
| Change is the only constant.
| ecshafer wrote:
| Tolkien continues to be quite prescient then. The Automobile has
| been an unmitigated disaster for mankind, the environment, and
| society. It destroys the environment, it makes cities less
| pleasant to live in, it kills people, it causes extra friction to
| social interactions that damages social bonds.
| ahazred8ta wrote:
| > _The Automobile makes cities less pleasant to live in_
|
| In 1900, there was a major manure crisis in all large european
| and north american cities. The swarms of flies were
| inescapable.
|
| Although certainly the new roads required by increased
| population caused disruption.
| GMoromisato wrote:
| Tolkien was probably right in that he would have hated to live in
| 2026. We are literally building machines designed to replace
| people like him.
|
| And yet, I can't help thinking that I would hate to live in
| Tolkien's time. When I was around 10, in 1975, I built a giant
| computer out of a cardboard box. To me, a computer was the same
| as a spaceship--something I would never own. Then in 1978, I saw
| an ad for a TRS-80 personal computer, and my world flipped.
|
| Even now, in my 60s, I can't wait to sit down and start
| programming (with or without AI). I've had a long, fruitful, and
| extremely fun career with computers, and I can't imagine what I
| would have done without them.
|
| Does that mean it's all relative? Whatever we're used to, that's
| what's good and any change is monstrous? Or is there really such
| a thing as progress and degeneration? Is it possible to say our
| time is better or worse than Tolkien's in some absolute sense?
|
| I don't know. I think if you take a Rawlsian perspective, and
| imagine being a random person of the era, I think being born
| today is far preferable to being born in 1892. On every measure--
| childhood poverty, violent deaths, even air quality--2026 is
| better than 1892.
|
| And that improvement is due almost entirely to technology--to the
| machine.
| gexla wrote:
| One of my favorite movies as a kid was Explorers (1985) where
| kids built a spaceship from a Tilt-A-Whirl and other parts. It
| was an inspiration. Like you, I enjoy programming, but I
| haven't built a spaceship yet. Hehe
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers_(film)
| switchbak wrote:
| That movie was really incredible, right up until the part
| where they ran out of money making it and it took a right
| hand turn into being absolutely terrible.
|
| When I was young I only saw the first half. Decades later I
| got to finish it ... what a letdown after all this time.
| xyzzy_plugh wrote:
| I heartily agree with you except for the ongoing childhood-
| screentime pandemic where kids aren't going outside to play,
| but instead are staying inside, alone, and _maybe_ playing with
| others virtually, but with more exposure to harm (e.g.
| gambling). This is clearly going to cause some serious long
| term generational fallout.
| GMoromisato wrote:
| Agreed--we're already seeing some of that, and I fully
| support minimizing kids' exposure to that.
|
| I probably should have been explicit that I don't think
| technology has no downsides--it most certainly does. It's
| just, IMHO, the benefits outweigh the risks. And, over time,
| we figure out how to ameliorate the downsides.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| > and I can't imagine what I would have done without them.
|
| You're falling into the trap of saying _I could 've only been
| happy if I did X._ But humans aren't like that - even
| garbagemen find happiness in their work. The brain adapts to
| baseline no matter the field.
|
| The second trap you're falling into is saying _look how
| abundant things are compared to 1892._ We have every statistic
| proven and locked down that abundance does not equal happiness.
| WillAdams wrote:
| Ages ago, I used to draw using pencils and having to ink
| drawings and then once 3 views were done, do all the work to
| make a 3D rendering --- while I appreciate Marshall
| MacLuhan's warnings concerning each technological advancement
| resulting in a matching amputation, the freedom and
| expressiveness which modern CAD affords is nothing short of
| miraculous --- it was pretty rare for there to be a draftsman
| whose artistic sensibilities allowed them to escape from the
| overnight drafting shift to making their own designs.
| card_zero wrote:
| But happiness wasn't mentioned. There was "fun", "I can't
| imagine what I would have done without them", and
| "preferable". If happiness is not the goal, your point about
| being _happy_ with garbage is irrelevant.
| GMoromisato wrote:
| Do you believe that all work is equivalent? That no matter
| what job I chose, I would be equally happy? That is hard for
| me to believe.
|
| Do you believe that, on balance, the world is no better today
| than in 1892? If so, that's where we disagree.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| > Do you believe that, on balance, the world is no better
| today than in 1892? If so, that's where we disagree.
|
| I think that the floor has been raised and the ceiling has
| been lowered for the typical person. There's far less
| suffering, but absence of suffering is not the same as
| happiness. In that respect I think a random 1892 person may
| have actually been happier. South Korea has 30x more
| suicides than Syria; the UK more than 3x Sudan; France more
| than 4x Afghanistan.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| The lowered ceiling is much more within the agency of a
| person now than in 1892. That we are not is far more of a
| choice for most people now that so many more have food
| and shelter security, not to mention antibiotics.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| > even garbagemen find happiness in their work.
|
| Citation definitely needed.
|
| The ones I know find happiness in their relatively high pay
| for an 8hr/day, no GED-required job, with the job security
| that the first few days are blindingly difficult for anyone
| to adapt to, even highly fit college athletes (source: 40+
| garbageman whose son couldn't hack two days of it).
| kazinator wrote:
| > _When I was around 10, in 1975, I built a giant computer out
| of a cardboard box._
|
| In around 1976, when I was five, I followed a smaller design:
| mine fit entirely inside an egg carton, with the tops painted
| various colors representing buttons. I had a roll of punched
| paper tape as a souvenir from my aunt, who worked in accounting
| for textile company. I fed that tape into the egg carton as
| input.
|
| And so here we are ...
| johngossman wrote:
| Tolkien and Lewis came by their luddism fairly, having both
| survived the horrors of trench warfare.
| carlosneves wrote:
| This concept of "machine worship" reminds me of E. M. Forster's
| The Machine Stops.
|
| Is it possible for a tech-oriented ideal to escape "machine
| worship"?
|
| As we strive to refine our "machines" ever further, and our
| "machines" become ever more capable, where does that lead us?
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(page generated 2026-03-13 23:01 UTC)