[HN Gopher] The dead Internet is not a theory anymore
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The dead Internet is not a theory anymore
        
       Author : hubraumhugo
       Score  : 297 points
       Date   : 2026-03-11 20:20 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.adriankrebs.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.adriankrebs.ch)
        
       | artemonster wrote:
       | I think next step will be an isolated version of invite-only
       | internet where you have to be physically present with your
       | invitee to give them access. There will be a beautiful navigation
       | widget where you can access a unified "addon" to any page:
       | community moderated comment section, version history of that
       | page, backlinks, carefully curated "related" section(so that you
       | can continue browsing beautiful human written content on 1910 era
       | steam locomotives, similar to 90s era webrings), donate button so
       | that you can support he author and much more! Oh, the dream
        
         | artemonster wrote:
         | optional de-centralized hosting, unified cryptocurrency as
         | payment tokens, single open LLM as summary and search-indexing
         | tool, specialized toolkits for journals and social networks
         | (livejournal, early twitter, early fb). Most importantly: you
         | can post anonymously where its allowed (there could be areas
         | where it can be disallowed entirely, like a public square), but
         | your account will take the punishment, so no edgy shitposting
         | behind throwaways.
        
       | jeandejean wrote:
       | Next step is: we get back to speaking to each other in the real
       | world. That would successfully close the loop.
        
         | sebastiennight wrote:
         | I think this will be a tiny minority who is already currently
         | not terminally online (so, no big change for them).
         | 
         | And the vast majority will just be driven to more AI-mediated
         | interactions.
        
           | tines wrote:
           | I think it's a symptom of being terminally online to think
           | that most other people are also terminally online. The
           | internet has a way of convincing you that most of the
           | [interesting] events in the world happen on the internet. But
           | I think this isn't the case; most stuff happens in the real
           | world, most people live in the real world most of the time,
           | and a tiny fraction of trite drama happens online.
        
             | ticulatedspline wrote:
             | Dunnow, everyone is in a bubble of some sorts. I'm online a
             | good bit but rarely on my phone, If I'm away from my desk
             | I'm offline. My social circle is similar so I would
             | naturally have bias for what I experience.
             | 
             | Year or so ago I took an Uber and was mesmerized by the
             | driver. He had his phone up mounted on the left and was
             | pretty constantly interacting with it. Checking for new
             | rides, watching a video, checking facebook. It was quite
             | impressive how much content he consumed while at a red
             | light and how dexterously he navigated to and through like
             | 10 different apps.
             | 
             | I very much got the feeling that this was a person that was
             | terminally online and suspected that he's not alone. A bit
             | alienating really, living in the same country speaking the
             | same language but realizing there's this huge
             | cultural/behavior divide between us.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | >being terminally online to think that most other people
             | are also terminally online.
             | 
             | 50% of US teenagers describe themselves as terminally
             | online.
             | 
             | Go any place where people work and have time to goof, and
             | you'll see them online.
             | 
             | Go to a bar/club, you see people with a phone in front of
             | their face.
             | 
             | The idea there is an online and offline is crumbling
             | further every day. Cameras are small, bandwidth is high in
             | relation to our compression algorithms. Anything happening
             | in the world can be broadcast live. More and more types of
             | machines are coming online that accept digital instructions
             | that make things happen in real life.
             | 
             | Furthermore it's an odd rejection of the printing press on
             | your part. That methods of information exchange affect the
             | real world around them. If the book brought about the
             | industrial revolution, what does an always available global
             | communications network bring?
             | 
             | At least based on your writing here on HN it seems like
             | you're probably an introvert, or at least a person that
             | likes quiet pondering and reflections. Reading a book would
             | be far more interesting than most online activities, right?
             | If I'm right and that is the case, then you may be missing
             | just how many people are horrifically addicted to being on
             | social media all the time.
        
       | Ancalagon wrote:
       | Hey it's what executives want. Fake everything. Slop and robots
       | everywhere. Have at it, I say. Maybe then people will go outside
       | again
        
         | jsbisviewtiful wrote:
         | My household just bought The Brick to start taking control of
         | our phones and online usage. We've been very online for 15+
         | years but are hoping to break the addiction cycle by simply
         | blocking our devices from access. The timing feels right,
         | mostly because sites like Instagram and Reddit are too
         | braindead and spam+ad heavy these days. The executives and
         | shareholders' desire for profits have already killed two of my
         | biggest online pastimes.
        
           | tartoran wrote:
           | I heard of The brick and sounds very effective. Not many
           | people realize the're addicted to their devices and most
           | tragic of all is that kids who grew always online have no
           | baseline to return to. As the OP mentions, I too hope that
           | when it'll all become a junk pile people will eventually
           | return to offline mode.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | Eventually that's what's going to happen if things keep on
         | going in this direction and it looks like there's nothing
         | stopping it so yeah, we're moving in circles. Old things will
         | become new again.
        
         | Oras wrote:
         | I wish going outside again were possible, but what if most of
         | the people you actually want to hang out with aren't in the
         | same area?
         | 
         | And for those who are near, the cost of having a coffee or a
         | drink is too much now on top of expenses that are already
         | stretching,
        
           | Ancalagon wrote:
           | go for a walk with your friends and a bottle of water
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | It's becoming rarer and rarer for people to have friends
             | that are physically close to them unless they've stayed in
             | the town they were born in.
             | 
             | Modern technology kind of broke friendship in the sense
             | that not very long ago maintaining friendships over any
             | distance was expensive. That is it costs long distance
             | fees, gas, or letter writing. Because of those expenses it
             | was very common to make friends locally pretty quickly.
             | 
             | But the internet broke that, especially modern social
             | media. Wherever you moved your friends were a free website
             | away, and long distance calling was gone. At first this
             | seemed fine because sites connected you to your friends,
             | but as the lock in happened it became a contest of getting
             | you pissed off and showing you ads.
             | 
             | Going to take a long time to socially fix this problem.
             | Especially as some large number of people are going to talk
             | to AI instead.
        
             | BobBagwill wrote:
             | Hi Friend, are you looking for a <insert product>bottled
             | water</>? Here are the top 1000 brands of delicious bottled
             | water! Water is very good for you! You are an ugly bag of
             | mostly water! You do not have to enter your payment
             | details, I remember them! Be assured that 1000 cases of
             | 1000 brands of delicious bottled water are on their way to
             | you now [Shipping charges may apply] at Peach Trees 2026,
             | Sector 13, Mega-City One! Have an adequate day!!!
        
       | bsaul wrote:
       | I only see two outcomes for this problem : an internet of
       | verified identities (start by uploading your ID card). Or a paid
       | internet, where it doesn't matter who you are, but since you're
       | going to pay for that email or that reddit account, the
       | probability that it's AI spam is greatly reduced.
       | 
       | And i'm looking forward to none of them.
        
         | Invictus0 wrote:
         | You could have easily said this twenty years ago when
         | photoshopped photos were going viral on the early internet.
         | Turns out people are completely fine with ai content and
         | photoshop.
        
           | csallen wrote:
           | There's a huge difference between fake content and fake
           | authors.
        
           | crab_galaxy wrote:
           | Fine in what way? What people?
           | 
           | I have not seen or heard of a single person who is excited
           | about AI generated blog posts, or TikToks, or commercials, or
           | images. In fact it's the opposite, the internet coined the
           | term AI slop, and my non-internet addicted friends hate the
           | fact that chatGPT is killing the environment.
           | 
           | The _only_ people I've ever seen champion AI are the few who
           | are excited by the bleeding edge, and the many _many_
           | peddlers
        
             | officeplant wrote:
             | The most common people just seem to be the elderly who
             | don't care / don't know any better. The same ones who told
             | us never to believe anything from the internet. They seem
             | to be hooked on weird AI jesus facebook posts, daily AI
             | generated motivational content, talking to the chatbot in
             | Whatsapp, etc.
        
             | Invictus0 wrote:
             | There are probably more than 10^17 AI model executions
             | occurring per day. I know in ye olde HN there are many
             | Purists that are Too Good For AI, but the majority of the
             | human race is consuming AI at a blinding rate, and if they
             | really didn't like it, they would stop.
        
               | girvo wrote:
               | > and if they really didn't like it, they would stop.
               | 
               | I can't really articulate why, but this doesn't feel true
               | to me. There are plenty of things humans do especially at
               | scale that we don't like, or we do that we don't like
               | others doing, and don't stop
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | >The "Moloch problem" or "Moloch trap" refers to a
               | scenario where individual, rational self-interest leads
               | to a collective outcome that is disastrous for everyone.
               | It describes competitive, zero-sum dynamics--often called
               | a "race to the bottom"--where participants sacrifice
               | long-term sustainability for short-term gains, resulting
               | in a loss for all involved.
               | 
               | Hence why we have to keep feeding the orphan crushing
               | machine.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | Who wrote what you quoted?
        
               | AngryData wrote:
               | And how much of that consumption is voluntary or willful?
               | I don't want to get AI slop in my search results or in my
               | forum discussions, it muddys the water with shallow at
               | best information, often in excessively verbose ways that
               | helps hide its more subtle falsehoods that it picked up.
        
           | gdulli wrote:
           | Your comment doesn't make sense because the fact that "dead
           | internet" has been coined since then (along with the
           | popularization of "slop" and "hallucination") means there is
           | a line and we have crossed it. Denial doesn't stand up to any
           | scrutiny.
           | 
           | It's too bad we weren't more skeptical about the ways
           | emerging technologies would eventually be used against us.
           | Some warned about it but many (including me) ignored them.
           | Perhaps we could be forgiven for that naivete, but there's no
           | excuse to be ignorant of what's going on now.
        
         | yakattak wrote:
         | Honestly the $10 barrier to SomethingAwful back in the day (and
         | I guess now since it's still around) definitely made a huge
         | difference. I hate the idea of subscribing to a site like HN or
         | Reddit... but one time $10 to post? I'd accept that if it meant
         | less bots.
        
           | bonesss wrote:
           | A $10 one time not-an-asshole fee is totally reasonable.
           | 
           | History also shows you can take a $10 fee and maintain
           | quality on SomethingAwful for quite some time.
        
             | pndy wrote:
             | Didn't that fee allowed to change account names of other
             | users or something like that?
        
               | yakattak wrote:
               | You could pay another $10 (or maybe $15?) to change
               | someone else's avatar.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I wonder how much that functions as an age gate since kids
             | usually don't have credit cards?
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | I would probably not pay $10 to post on HN, but many
             | spammers who expect some kind of tangible return would pay
             | that, so the fee just makes the problem worse.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | The spammers wouldn't pay it once though - the idea is
               | that it's a good way to scale moderation. Each time an
               | admin needs to ban a user there is a 10$ subsidy
               | supporting that action - and if the bots come back then
               | they get to pay 10$ to be banned again.
               | 
               | Assuming the money isn't wasted and is actually used to
               | fund moderation 10$ is probably comfortably above the
               | cost to detect and ban most malicious users.
        
               | jnettome wrote:
               | That's basically what Valve does on cheaters with premier
               | accounts on cs:go/cs2. And the revenue still growing up.
        
               | AngryData wrote:
               | Yeah, I love HN, but I wouldn't pay and I know many if
               | not the majority of other people wouldn't. It would
               | increase quality for awhile for sure, but what happens a
               | year or two down the road? It would kill the user count
               | and reduce comments and become less valuable over time.
        
           | geek_at wrote:
           | reminds me of Bill Gates in the 90s when asked about email
           | spam. He said it would make sense to make an email cost like
           | 1 cent so the spammers can't spam as much but this didn't sit
           | right with the mindset of the people at the time.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Also, while real people probably would not be willing to
             | pay to E-mail, spammers who are making money _would_ pay
             | and consider it a cost of doing business. So the fee is
             | having the opposite of its intended effect.
        
             | 650 wrote:
             | community idea:
             | 
             | "my2cents"
             | 
             | 0.02 to post or send a message
        
             | selfsimilar wrote:
             | Hashcash was a proof-of-work system that would have put a
             | computational tax on email. I don't know what kept it from
             | getting more traction other than simple chicken-and-egg
             | network effects, but it's a good idea, and worth
             | resurrecting.
             | 
             | http://www.hashcash.org
        
               | ramses0 wrote:
               | Email2000 is the only answer:
               | https://cr.yp.to/im2000.html
               | 
               | TLDR: Mail storage is the sender's responsibility. The
               | message isn't copied to the receiver. All the receiver
               | needs is a brief notification that a message is
               | available.
        
           | apazzolini wrote:
           | It's a beautiful system. And if you were a dipshit and got
           | banned, you paid another $10 and hopefully learned your
           | lesson.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Exponential backoff: second time is $100 etc.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | Now we could only pay $$ to overwrite people's social media
           | pfps, now that'd be fun.
        
           | zem wrote:
           | I think metafilter had a similar system and it was definitely
           | one of the higher quality forums
        
           | entrox wrote:
           | Given how easy it was to get banned, the :tenbux: were almost
           | like a subscription.
        
           | bakugo wrote:
           | Odds are it would harm real discussions more than it would
           | harm bot spam.
           | 
           | The bots exist for a reason, usually to covertly advertise a
           | product, and by themselves already cost money to run. Someone
           | looking to astroturf their AI B2B SaaS would probably be more
           | willing to pay $10 to post than a random user from a less
           | wealthy country who just wants to leave a comment on an
           | interesting discussion.
        
           | twentyfiveoh1 wrote:
           | payment would need a delay too. Pay $10 and then wait a week
           | or so for the payment to clear without it being reversed.
           | Hopefully that stops the card stealers from dumping as much
           | as possible before getting booted.
           | 
           | Could we just add complex and varied captcha to the comment &
           | posting forms?
        
         | QQ00 wrote:
         | Someone, somewhere, salivating at the idea of combining both
         | ideas. A paid for digital ID service that you can use as
         | authentication for the web.
         | 
         | Actually, if I'm thinking about it. Social Media platforms
         | already started this with the paid blue badge for verification,
         | and it's also monthly subscription. But it's for their
         | respective platform only, not universal.
        
           | geek_at wrote:
           | Would that work though? Unless it checks your pulse every 30
           | minutes I don't see how that would make it better. Bots would
           | use stolen IDs for that. It would only contain it at a
           | smaller scale probably
        
             | booi wrote:
             | There's definitely a price where it doesn't scale and that
             | price is almost certainly lower than what people would be
             | willing to pay once for themselves.
        
             | pphysch wrote:
             | It would have to integrate with some kind of official
             | government ID, so that there can be extremely serious
             | criminal penalties for ID theft. But that's something for
             | the next republic, because the current one's justice system
             | is unlikely to be up to the task.
        
           | roxolotl wrote:
           | Isn't this what World Coin is? Definitively not a fan of the
           | project but I think the general goal is to get people to
           | verify they are human and then somehow "waves hands
           | blockchain" that can be carried with them on the internet.
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | This 3-year old meme video is becoming more and more relevant
         | by the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gGLvg0n-uY
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Friend of a friend verification could side-step that, if there
         | is a good way to penalize bad actors willing to violate the
         | principle.
        
           | rpcope1 wrote:
           | I guess we're coming full circle back to red offbrand Hacker
           | News
        
         | kubb wrote:
         | I want cool cryptography where I can, e.g. verify where I'm
         | writing from and what my age is without giving away any other
         | information.
         | 
         | Or if I want, I can verify that I'm myself, and eschew
         | anonymity, and certain platforms should only accept
         | contributions from people who don't hide their identity.
         | 
         | Everyone knows who you are in the town square.
        
           | retrocog wrote:
           | IMHO, this is the exact instinct and there's a way to verify
           | identity, location, and age without even having to share
           | those directly.
        
             | soco wrote:
             | Switzerland just voted recently to officially implement
             | Selective Disclosure JWT, which does exactly all that.
             | Social network registration can ask "are you 18?" and run
             | with that - and only that. Or the club entrance. Or
             | whatever, because it's all controlled by yourself in your
             | app.
        
           | nathancahill wrote:
           | I think this was the premise of Keybase?
        
             | youainti wrote:
             | Still jaded that went nowhere...
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | It's kind of bizarre that Zoom is still bothering to keep
             | the lights on at Keybase when it's been completely
             | fossilized for six years now. The writing is so obviously
             | on the wall that nobody should be relying on it for
             | anything, and yet they just won't let it die.
        
               | midtake wrote:
               | It's not fossilized, it's just that no one uses it. Put
               | hot chicks on there or make it mandatory for logging into
               | Slack and suddenly everyone will be using keybase.io, and
               | honestly I think web of trust is a good idea and if a
               | webapp can make it seem easy or intuitive then I'm all
               | for it.
               | 
               | We're scratching our heads wondering why there's no
               | forward motion when it's simply that no one is pushing
               | it.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Looks pretty fossilized to me: https://keybase.io/blog
               | 
               | They haven't added or really changed anything since the
               | acquisition AFAICT, it's just trucking along exactly as
               | it was the day Zoom bought them out. Twitter account
               | proofs were broken by the API changes years ago and
               | nobody is at the wheel to fix or even just deprecate
               | them.
               | 
               | https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues/issues/4200
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | I don't hide my identity, but I've yet to find a "non-
           | anonymous" platform that actually _accepts_ my identity.
        
           | meowkit wrote:
           | Zero Knowledge Proof schemes
           | 
           | Applied ZKPs are being actively worked on in the blockchain
           | sphere.
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | Anonymity is important for many things. But on the flip side
           | it's responsible of many issues with the internet today,
           | because it makes moderation pretty much impossible (anyone
           | can always just create a new account).
           | 
           | What we're missing is a way to have cryptographically secure
           | pseudonymity: you log in to a website, you don't give any
           | information whatsoever, but you cannot make two different
           | accounts.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | Most likely because your second sentence is impossible in
             | one way or another.
             | 
             | Even if it's some kind of government encoded key,
             | governments cannot be trusted to create imaginary people
             | and hand them out to companies like palantir for large
             | scale population manipulation.
        
           | ekropotin wrote:
           | What stops someone from handing over their idendity's private
           | keys to an agent?
        
         | gr8tyeah wrote:
         | I pay for my ISP and the financial institution the money comes
         | from has age verification
         | 
         | Social media, HN and the rest of internet first business can go
         | broke
         | 
         | I don't see anyone out there propping me up directly. Why would
         | I give crap if some open source hacker or etsy dealer doesn't
         | have a home next month? Yeah I don't because they're not caring
         | in the same way
         | 
         | Thoughts and prayers everyone else but your effort is clear,
         | not going to be 1984'd into caring for people who clearly don't
         | care back.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Verified entities defecting by using AI to generate their
         | content for them will break this.
        
           | Pigalowda wrote:
           | We can use verification mountain dew cans. No big deal.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I can't recall the last time I did the Dew. Should I turn
             | myself in to a reeducation camp?
        
               | rpcope1 wrote:
               | I recall a WSJ article during the 2024 election that was
               | about the fact that Tim Walz and JD Vance were both big
               | consumers of Diet Mountain Dew, and how basically America
               | ran across the board on various types of Mountain Dew.
               | Can you really call yourself "American" if you're not
               | doing the dew?
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | I drank enough for three people in college. My lifetime
               | average is probably still in the margin of error.
        
         | armchairhacker wrote:
         | There's a third option: web-of-trust. https://lobste.rs/ has
         | some problems but not bot spam.
        
         | dehsge wrote:
         | Members only comment blogs. Where you need an invite to comment
         | also solves the problem. You need to know a real human to get
         | access.
        
           | MeetingsBrowser wrote:
           | That might raise the initial barrier, but it assumes every
           | user behaves appropriately.
           | 
           | All it takes is one invited user to open the door to bots.
        
             | Bombthecat wrote:
             | Then we go back to torrent sites.
             | 
             | Invite only. You get a number of invites per year etc. And
             | once a year an open door or so
        
             | throwaway94275 wrote:
             | Blog admin sees who invited the bots and recursively kicks
             | that account and any invited by it.
        
               | MeetingsBrowser wrote:
               | I invite myself multiple times in addition to other real
               | humans. Then I use my duplicate accounts to invite bots.
        
           | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
           | >Where you need an invite to comment also solves the problem.
           | You need to know a real human to get access.
           | 
           | Bittorrent trackers, as absolute retarded as they are, have
           | performed this experiment for us and the lesson we're
           | supposed to learn is that this does not work. Someone,
           | somewhere, has an incentive to invite the wrong sort
           | eventually, which because of the social network graph math
           | stuff, eventually means "soon". Once that happens, that bot
           | will invite 10 trillion other bots.
        
             | DiskoHexyl wrote:
             | Actually it does work for those invite-only trackers,
             | especially in niche fields.
             | 
             | Unlike most public trackers which are either dead or on a
             | life-support, member-only and invite-only sites are still
             | kicking.
             | 
             | And you are personally responsible for your invitee
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > Members only comment blogs.
           | 
           | There, sadly, needs to be some gatekeeping and then it can
           | work.
           | 
           | For example I'm member, since years, of a petrolhead forum
           | where it works like that: a fancy car brand, with lots of
           | "tifosi" (and you don't necessarily want all these would-be
           | owners on the forum). To be part of the forum you must be
           | introduced by some other members who have met you in real-
           | life and who confirm that you did show up with a car of that
           | brand.
           | 
           | If you're not a "confirmed owner", you can only access the
           | forum in read-only mode.
           | 
           | It's not 100% foolproof but it does greatly raise the bar.
           | 
           | It's international too: people do travel and they organize
           | meetups / see each others at cars and coffee, etc.
           | 
           | Or take a real extreme, maybe the most expensive social
           | network: the Bloomberg terminal. People/companies paying
           | $30K/year or so per seat each year probably won't be going to
           | let employees hook a LLM to chat for them and risk screwing
           | their reputation. Although I take it you never know.
           | 
           | It is the way it is but gatekeeping does exist and it does
           | work.
        
         | hackingonempty wrote:
         | > an internet of verified identities (start by uploading your
         | ID card)
         | 
         | That is Facebook. I hear it is full of bots posting under
         | verified identities.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | How would you overcome a local llm embedded into a keyboard?
        
         | apitman wrote:
         | People can also move to smaller communities
        
         | drdaeman wrote:
         | Neither of those solves it, just tries to conserve the status
         | quo.
         | 
         | The issue, as I understand it, is literally a new Eternal
         | November, just that instead of "noobs" there are "clankers"
         | this time.
         | 
         | Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about things like
         | gender, organs (like skin or genitalia) or absence thereof, or
         | anything alike when someone posts something online, unless
         | posted content is strongly related to one of those topics.
         | Ideas matter no matter who or what produces them. Species fit
         | into the same aspects-I-don't-care-about list just fine - on
         | the Internet nobody knows^W cares you're a dog. Or a bunch of
         | matrices in a trench coat. As long as you behave socially
         | appropriate.
         | 
         | The problem with bots is that they're not just noobs - unlike
         | us meatbags they don't just do wrong and stupid things but
         | can't possibly learn to stop (because models are static).
         | Solving that, I think, is the true solution, bringing Internet
         | back to life. Anything else seems to be just addressing the
         | correlations to the symptoms.
         | 
         | (Yea, I'm leaning towards technooptimist and transhumanist
         | views - I was raised in culture that had a lot of those, and
         | was sold a dream of a progress that transcends worlds, and
         | haven't found a reason to denounce that. Your mileage may
         | vary.)
        
         | raincole wrote:
         | It turns out that Twitter selling the blue marks is the correct
         | direction, but no one would admit it.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | I wonder what would be the effect of a minuscule tax (0,01c) on
         | network use. Could reuse addiction, abuse, create a fund to
         | finance other things.
        
         | JohnMakin wrote:
         | Paid option doesn't really deter this behavior, it encourages
         | it - a botter will see a price tag on a "real" account (see
         | what happened to twitter's blue checkmark sub) and go oh goody,
         | I can pay for people to think I'm real.
         | 
         | If you make the price high enough sure, but I'm unsure you can
         | find the right price to simultaneously 1) deter bot traffic and
         | 2) be appealing to actual users.
        
       | ticulatedspline wrote:
       | Kinda been dead a while, also not dead there's still good stuff
       | out there. Lots of it, but it's in the corners and under the
       | carpets. Things created in the original spirit of the "let me
       | show you my interests" that the older web was built on.
       | 
       | While back was toying with the idea of building out a new web on
       | a new protocol (not http based). Thus no existing browser would
       | understand it. Deliberately obscure to force a "Reset" button of
       | sorts.
       | 
       | Though would be short lived, over time we've learned to ruin
       | stuff faster and faster. I'm not sure there's any network so
       | alien that it could hold on to that golden era of innocence from
       | the past, it would be found then expediently and expertly
       | exploited.
        
         | moritz wrote:
         | https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/specification.gmi
         | 
         | [no, not that gemini]
        
       | drykiss wrote:
       | Maybe the only parts of a future internet people will actually
       | hang out in is going to be one where any profit-making is
       | completely de-incentivized. No recommendations. No product
       | reviews. No opinions on companies or services. More slow web.
       | Maybe we'll slowly head back to what websites used to look like
       | when Yahoo was the biggest search engine.
        
         | bonesss wrote:
         | Back then the day Yahoo was a manually curated index of
         | submitted & verified sites with search capabilities.
         | 
         | Wild-ass business idea: what if Yahoo 2026 recreated Yahoo 1996
         | and also any of the video sites it bought up back in the day
         | get relaunched as deshittified ad-selling mechanisms to fund
         | the whole thing... there's gotta be Yahoo 1996 money in
         | whatever scraps YouTube is missing.
         | 
         | It used to be faster and easier to follow actual content.
        
           | PaulKeeble wrote:
           | An index is also a lot more discoverable for content like the
           | others. The issues of classification still exist its not a
           | tree like they tried to make it but indexes based on human
           | effort on value I think still have their place
        
       | Computer0 wrote:
       | Just yesterday in a local non profit organization's Signal
       | groupchat a user who had just offered to take meeting minutes the
       | day prior emitted an open claw error message to the chat. They
       | are now banned from the organization.
        
       | toddmorey wrote:
       | I see many, many startups that promise to be an automated
       | marketing agent that will do this exact thing: scour sites for
       | conversations and post links to your product.
       | 
       | Obviously that burns down the human Internet, but it's also a
       | business that will have a short lifespan and bring about its own
       | demise.
       | 
       | I guess they don't care about anything enduring as long as they
       | can grab some quick cash on the way out.
        
         | girvo wrote:
         | > I guess they don't care about anything enduring as long as
         | they can grab some quick cash on the way out.
         | 
         | As far as I can tell, that is basically all AI-related
         | businesses. Including those non-AI ones jumping on the
         | bandwagon to throw all their employees in the bin and expect
         | 10x productivity somehow: if they are right and these tools do
         | become that good, well the economy as we know it is over as
         | white collar knowledge work disappears.
         | 
         | But hey, we made money in those few years right!
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | At least in the US very few industries actually seem to be
           | about making a product.
           | 
           | A good example is this, car companies don't make cars for the
           | most part, they make loans. Financial companies first, car
           | companies second.
           | 
           | Consolidation, collusion, and rent-seeking behaviors by
           | companies are going out of control too. The fact AI companies
           | can do what they are doing has much to do with the previous
           | brick and mortar businesses weakening any business
           | regulations down to nothing.
        
             | D13Fd wrote:
             | > A good example is this, car companies don't make cars for
             | the most part, they make loans. Financial companies first,
             | car companies second.
             | 
             | I get that this is true from a certain point of view. But
             | car companies clearly compete in a very healthy way on
             | features and quality.
             | 
             | In fact, cars are a great example of a market where the
             | companies clearly care about making the product, and the
             | competition between them has driven that products to
             | incredible heights. Cars these days are vastly better than
             | they were in the past.
        
       | august- wrote:
       | do you think small, invite-only communities will end up being the
       | last holdout for genuine human conversation online? or will bots
       | eventually infiltrate those too?
        
         | levkk wrote:
         | Lobsters is like that, basically a ghost town compared to
         | Reddit. If you block engagement, you will succeed.
        
           | esseph wrote:
           | > Lobsters
           | 
           | Invite only, very exclusionary. Private club with public
           | posting? Worst of both worlds.
        
         | daedrdev wrote:
         | It's absolutely why discord is popular.
        
         | floatrock wrote:
         | Bots will absolutely infiltrate them eventually, but I think
         | it's the only solution.
         | 
         | Internet promised ability to connect with anyone anywhere
         | around the world. It felt limitless and infinite.
         | 
         | Turns out in an infinite world, the loudest voices are the
         | ragebaits, the algorithmically-amplified, or the outright
         | scammers.
         | 
         | Human social brain doesn't work in an infinite world, it works
         | for a Dunbar's Number world. And we all like our psuedo-
         | anonymous soapboxes (I'm standing on one right now), but trick
         | will be to realize that the glitter of infinite quantity isn't
         | the same as small-scale connection.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | At least for some time I imagine a hybridization may pop up.
           | For example you grow a community of humans that keeps bots
           | under control. Because of this all actors are humans, and
           | valuable because of that.
           | 
           | Hence you'll end up with defectors getting paid to siphon off
           | all the conversations to some ad companies that will work on
           | tying them with real world identities and then serving them
           | more detailed ads in the places they cannot avoid interfacing
           | with the open internet.
        
         | knaik94 wrote:
         | I think most small communities will stand bot-free because
         | there's little incentive to have bot engage with it.
         | 
         | But I wonder if there's a size of conversation after which
         | people will still choose AI assisted summaries. Discord
         | had/(has?) a feature where it used LLMs summarize and then
         | notify you about a discussion happening.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Well, it's not such terrible news, is it?
       | 
       | I get nostalgia for the 90s/00s, but that time was never coming
       | back anyways.
       | 
       | The best we can hope now is for people to be less online. And if
       | it comes from people drowning in AI crap, I think it's kind of
       | funny.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | I don't think people are going to get offline and the best we
         | can probably do is create free and open p2p platforms that
         | don't require registration necessarily to use. And allow people
         | to control their own databases. A lot of communication is
         | locked behind corporations that run the services that are
         | building these tracking and identification databases.
         | 
         | I actually think it's more about getting people off browsers
         | and other tracking software.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | >create free and open p2p platforms that don't require
           | registration necessarily to use
           | 
           | And how do you create this without it being overran by bots,
           | spam, and people posting gargantuan amounts of porn?
           | 
           | >allow people to control their own databases
           | 
           | There are two types of people that want to control databases.
           | 1: The freedom seeking type who want information sovereignty.
           | 2: The type of people that want to hoover up as much data as
           | possible for money and power.
           | 
           | Guess who has more ability to control the world out of those
           | two.
           | 
           | Lastly, most people want to use curated websites free of spam
           | and content they don't want. _Almost nobody_ wants to do that
           | curation themselves. Hence curated platforms will attract the
           | most people via network effects.
           | 
           | ah shoot, that wasn't lastly...
           | 
           | > getting people off browsers
           | 
           | and putting them on what exactly? phone apps, that's not
           | better at all. Multimedia attracts people like flies to poop.
           | It's seemingly a natural human response to move to an
           | application that is more visually interesting _regardless_ of
           | it 's security safety.
        
       | chuckadams wrote:
       | The funny thing about the LinkedIn post is that the parody is
       | dead-on as to the kind of mindless slop a human on LI would post.
       | LinkedIn was the Dead Internet before LLMs were even a thing. And
       | I guess AI doesn't even have to be posting everything for Dead
       | Internet Theory to hold, it just has to be the default perception
       | in order to cause everything to be treated skeptically.
       | 
       | I think I'll just take up blacksmithing.
        
       | halyconWays wrote:
       | The only place that reminds me of the old Internet is VRChat,
       | funny enough. You're guaranteed to be interacting with a nerdy,
       | culturally similar human who's present in the moment.
        
       | amiantos wrote:
       | Why is it being called dead internet theory when, as far as I can
       | tell, what's really happening is that big centralized systems are
       | being overrun with bots? The internet existed and was pretty
       | great before these large centralized systems came into being.
       | 
       | Anyone can still run a blog/website, and/or their own discourse
       | server. There's no need to mourn for these centralized systems
       | that largely existed only to exploit us in some way. Let's
       | celebrate "small internet theory", an internet where exploitation
       | is effectively impossible because every company that tries it is
       | overrun with AI bots. That sounds awesome to me personally, but I
       | was also up late last night watching clips of Conan O'Brien from
       | 1999 and the nostalgia for that era / what the internet was like
       | back then hit me so hard it was almost painful.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Why is it being called dead internet theory_
         | 
         | "A social networking system simulates a user using a language
         | model trained using training data generated from user
         | interactions performed by that user. The language model may be
         | used for simulating the user when the user is absent from the
         | social networking system, for example, when the user takes a
         | long break or if the user is deceased" [1].
         | 
         | (More seriously:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory)
         | 
         | [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US12513102B2
        
           | amiantos wrote:
           | So why isn't it called "dead social media theory"? The
           | internet is not only social media services, though I
           | understand a lot of people seem to think that without
           | centralized social media services there is no reason to use
           | the internet.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | Have you been on the internet at large lately? With google
             | you may get one authoritative site on something and 50 bot
             | copies of the site on different domains. Sometimes the
             | stolen site is the number one return. Also, if you ran
             | sites years/decades ago, you realized way back then the any
             | local user posting was getting overran by spammers/bots.
             | Now is so much worse that it's not worth doing in most
             | cases.
             | 
             | So, most posts on social media aren't real.
             | 
             | Most user posts on non-social media are spam/not real.
             | 
             | Most websites in searches are copies/ad spam.
             | 
             | So yea, dead internet reality.
        
               | amiantos wrote:
               | I spend all day every day on the Internet and I don't
               | share your perspective. I might dislike centralized
               | social media and yearn for a bygone era, but just in the
               | past two days I had a very positive interaction with
               | multiple real humans in the Commodore 64 subreddit that
               | helped solve a problem I was having that isn't documented
               | anywhere else on the internet yet. So then I went on my
               | personal blog and blogged about it, which will get it out
               | there on Google and help others. In this way, I am
               | helping to keep the internet alive, I guess. "Be the
               | change you want to see in the world," and all that.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > So then I went on my personal blog and blogged about
               | it, which will get it out there on Google and help
               | others.
               | 
               | That's some of the boldest optimism I think I've seen in
               | awhile. Maybe your blog is more popular than I assume,
               | but still
        
               | amiantos wrote:
               | Traffic stats for my primary blog are public (I only
               | started using simple analytics in December so there's
               | only two full months of data):
               | https://dashboard.simpleanalytics.com/amiantos.net
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | "You can do everything right and still lose".
               | 
               | At the end of the day there is no real penalty for being
               | a bad actor on the internet. They get unlimited retries
               | on spamming and otherwise causing problems. In many ways
               | this helps Google entrench itself as the search/ad
               | company. No one else has the money or compute resources
               | to continuously update the internet. Furthermore they
               | have told us it's their job to shove unskippable ads in
               | our faces. They'll gladly let the public internet die in
               | the future if they can push out their own version of
               | "SafeInternet by Google/now with more ads!".
        
               | amiantos wrote:
               | Every single one of your comments in this thread is some
               | slippery slope stuff where you think corporations and
               | federal government are going to work together to kill off
               | the (public?) internet. It's okay that you feel that way,
               | even if it's just a big ol' fallacy, but you don't need
               | to repeat it in six different places. You made your
               | point, you think the internet is doomed no matter what
               | happens, great, let's move on.
        
               | TitaRusell wrote:
               | It is inevitable that in a few years we can't even tell a
               | real user from a bot without forensic analysis.
               | 
               | When AI can post a million times a day the internet is
               | FUBAR.
        
             | bfeist wrote:
             | 100% agree that this is what it should be called. To argue
             | that big websites being big makes them equivalent to the
             | whole Internet is absurd. Besides, I love the idea of the
             | only recourse to be to go back to independently run
             | information websites.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | For the younger generation, social sites _are_ the
               | internet. They open an app on their device, they don 't
               | go to sites by searching the web. I've seen people
               | perform a web search in an app store thinking it was the
               | same thing.
        
             | jareklupinski wrote:
             | commercial internet services would prefer that you forget
             | the internet without them can in fact exist
        
             | burnto wrote:
             | Yeah I agree. It's an acute problem on social media
             | platforms where there's a market force incentivizing it. If
             | you're mostly engaging in specific niche interactions with
             | known communities or people, it's not nearly so prevalent.
             | The internet still works fine as a whole.
        
           | genpfault wrote:
           | > A social networking system simulates a user using a
           | language model trained using training data generated from
           | user interactions performed by that user
           | 
           | Google People[1]?
           | 
           | [1]: https://qntm.org/perso
        
         | Lerc wrote:
         | It reminds me of the cartoon of two people on an escalator that
         | stops working and one says to the other "Last time this
         | happened I was stuck for four hours"
         | 
         | I'm thinking there might have been a deeper message than the
         | moment of ridiculousness.
        
         | robotswantdata wrote:
         | How would the small internet fight the bots?
         | 
         | Aggressive moderation? Disable UGC?
        
           | amiantos wrote:
           | In an ideal/fantasy world under "small internet theory",
           | every online friend group would have their own Discourse
           | server set up (similar to how friend groups use Discord now),
           | and traffic/usage of that Discourse server is so small that
           | it would be a waste of resources to try to swamp it with bot
           | traffic, and on top of that, everyone on the Discourse server
           | are friends who can vouch for new members who join, so no bot
           | could join the Discourse server because no one would know who
           | they are.
           | 
           | I understand that some may feel we are losing something, by
           | not being able to go onto a website and anonymously talk to
           | 1000s of other anonymous people we do not know, but I do not
           | think that has actually been a net positive and this bot
           | issue demonstrates the issue quite well: if you do not know
           | who you are talking to, you do not know if they are telling
           | the truth, or if they are someone you should even listen to
           | at all, and now they might not even be human. So why do it? I
           | would rather talk to my friends, people I've met in meatspace
           | or over voice chat in a game, people who I can vouch for and
           | that I know I can respect and trust.
           | 
           | Let's build small communities of real friends who recognize
           | each other and spend time with them on the internet, in that
           | way the internet will never die.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | >Let's build small communities of
             | 
             | And 10 minutes later Texas demands you identify all your
             | users age when someone posts a porn image somewhere.
             | Facebook will gleefully laugh all the way to the court
             | saying we need such internet ID to entrench themselves.
             | 
             | >, in that way the internet will never die.
             | 
             | You mean in the exact way the internet used to be... then
             | died?
             | 
             | I'm guessing your GenX or a Xennial, it's how we think.
             | Relationships and friendships are hard things to acquire
             | and keep and you have to work to do it otherwise friends
             | disappear. The thing is the younger generations mostly
             | don't think that way. They have mostly always lived in a
             | world where connections are cheap and easy to maintain.
             | Attempting to move to a system that is more difficult will
             | be very difficult for them.
        
               | ianbutler wrote:
               | > Attempting to move to a system that is more difficult
               | will be very difficult for them.
               | 
               | That doesn't make it wrong, it just might make the last
               | 20 years a mistake.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Large scale mistakes are very difficult to fix and have
               | entrenched groups to ensure they continue. See: Internal
               | combustion engines, Cigarettes.
        
           | thesz wrote:
           | HashCash.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | It would be interesting if we had some sort of local
           | verification in the real world. As in picking up some key
           | from some physical place or having it sent to some physical
           | place. Some services like nextdoor are set up like this and
           | mail out account auth to make sure the user is local to their
           | next door group. Obviously you can imagine how it might be
           | abused but it is impossible to do so at the scale you can
           | abuse digital only methods.
        
             | robotswantdata wrote:
             | Pokemon go was ahead of its time
        
           | ahofmann wrote:
           | Small internet isn't very attractive for most bots. Also, I
           | use websites that are invite-only. This is effectively a web
           | of trust. This works pretty well, bots aren't a real problem
           | there.
        
           | jasondigitized wrote:
           | Run your site like an old school BBS. You only run into these
           | problems when you invite the world to your site and want big
           | numbers. You don't have to do that.
        
         | ambicapter wrote:
         | Anyone can run a blog/website and be subject to AI bot crawlers
         | using terabytes of your bandwidth for no reason, yeah.
        
           | ahofmann wrote:
           | Bandwidth is only expensive in the US, somehow. Here in
           | Germany I didn't bother about bots and their additional
           | traffic since 1998 (there are other annoying things about
           | bots though).
        
           | idop wrote:
           | More than that, it's practically impossible to find good
           | specialized, human-written websites. Search engines don't
           | find them, all results are AI garbage. With no real ability
           | to be discovered, there's no incentive to maintain such
           | websites too, and so the cycle of slop continues.
        
             | dwedge wrote:
             | Kagi small Web, though their rss only seems to show 5
             | updates a day across thousands of sites. Also search for
             | indieweb
        
           | dwedge wrote:
           | If this encourages those people to stop sending hundreds of
           | megabytes of crap per page load of their text content, it
           | might be a good thing
        
         | xdennis wrote:
         | > Let's celebrate "small internet theory", an internet where
         | exploitation is effectively impossible because every company
         | that tries it is overrun with AI bots.
         | 
         | But isn't it even harder for small forums to resist the robot
         | onslaught without the trillion dollar valuations to fund it?
         | 
         | Although, part of the reason Facebook/Linkedin/Twitch/etc have
         | bots is because those companies secretly want them, in order to
         | inflate their usage numbers.
        
           | chistev wrote:
           | > Although, part of the reason Facebook/Linkedin/Twitch/etc
           | have bots is because those companies secretly want them, in
           | order to inflate their usage numbers.
           | 
           | Yes, they are disincentivized to get rid of bots.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | The people that want to get rid of the bots get crushed
             | because said botting technology is hyper advanced and cheap
             | to use because of the massive scale of social media. This
             | ends up with huge numbers of them getting put behind
             | services like cloudflare further consolidating the
             | internet.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | We're talking right now on a centralized system that's slowly
         | being overrun by bots. We can survive without, but I'll miss
         | it.
        
           | georgemcbay wrote:
           | I understand your concern!
           | 
           | Would you like me to help you create a copy of this
           | centralized system with a CAPTCHA to filter out the bots?
        
         | jasondigitized wrote:
         | Bring back BBS. Getting into the good ones was a process back
         | in the day.
        
           | amiantos wrote:
           | It's funny you mention this, I got a Commodore 64 Ultimate
           | the other day and one of the first things I did was load up
           | the BBS client and browse some BBSes. Those are from before
           | my time (my first PC was a Compaq Pentium 166) so I never got
           | to experience them for real. But if the rest of the internet
           | collapses under the weight of bot traffic, BBSes are quite
           | nice.
        
           | glimshe wrote:
           | BBSs have been in theory replaced, but in reality they
           | haven't even been approached by modern social media. Small
           | forums full of dedicated users, often local. So many great
           | memories.
        
         | gpderetta wrote:
         | signal/noise
        
         | Krei-se wrote:
         | Your welcome to link your proven human page with mine.
         | 
         | Id even run a dedicated UT99 server lol
        
         | raincole wrote:
         | > Anyone can still run a blog/website, and/or their own
         | discourse server
         | 
         | Including bots.
        
         | obsidianbases1 wrote:
         | > what's really happening is that big centralized systems are
         | being overrun with bots? The internet existed and was pretty
         | great before these large centralized systems came into being.
         | 
         | This is a great point. Suddenly, I'm looking forward to this
        
         | xorvoid wrote:
         | I generally agree with this, but I think the small internet
         | hasn't succeeded in building social replacements for the
         | "centralized systems". The internet is a social technology. So
         | for this to be viable, the small internet needs an answer.
         | 
         | Occasionally, someone mentions RSS as a solution. That's only a
         | small component of the solution.
        
         | zedlasso wrote:
         | it was originally called zombie web but that didn't catch so it
         | turned into this.
        
         | keithnz wrote:
         | No, the old internet wasn't that great. There were so many
         | problems. Finding things was hard, buying things was hard,
         | integrating things was hard, compatibility was hard, everything
         | was super fractured. It felt great at the time because you
         | discovered all these random things and it was all novel at the
         | time. Centralized (Or decentralized collaborative services like
         | IRC or Usenet) really unlocked the power of the internet.
        
         | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
         | And who is going to know your blog exists? If they search on
         | Google they are going to get an answer from AI and stop
        
           | dwedge wrote:
           | Kagi small web, for one
        
           | amiantos wrote:
           | Who cares if anyone knows my blog exists? I'm not writing my
           | blog to farm engagement as I do not run ads on my blog. I
           | write on my blog because I want to write my thoughts down and
           | project them into the world. Whether or not anyone sees them
           | is pretty unimportant.
           | 
           | If my writing helps someone via them hitting my blog directly
           | or them getting the answer via AI aggregation, mission
           | accomplished.
        
           | AngryData wrote:
           | In my experience AI doesn't give the answer you want because
           | it gives the most shallow and basic, many times so basic as
           | to be worthless, response. Then I either scroll through 20
           | results hoping I see one that isn't an AI writeup of the
           | exact same incomplete source, or I give up and search out a
           | specific site I know exists that isn't AI written for that
           | information.
        
         | dwedge wrote:
         | In some ways it might be positive. My girlfriend had a small
         | addiction to Instagram reels. The flood of AI generated videos
         | on there just killed the magic for her and she stopped using it
        
           | E-Reverance wrote:
           | Happy to hear of this anecdata, as it gives me hope something
           | similar will happen to my family
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | > _Anyone can still run a blog /website, and/or their own
         | discourse server._
         | 
         | And those will also get chocked with fake bot "members" and bot
         | comments.
         | 
         | Plus, if "anyone can still run a blog/website", this includes
         | bots. AI created and operated blogs/websites, luring in people
         | who think they're reading actual human posts.
        
         | tracerbulletx wrote:
         | Parasitic zombie internet.
        
       | _pdp_ wrote:
       | The Internet was always full of bots. Not chatbots, but bots like
       | crawlers, scrapers, automated scripts. That was fine.
       | 
       | What the OP is talking about is bots that participate in public
       | discourse. That's the actual problem.
       | 
       | I think it can be handled to a degree though. Private
       | communities, private Internet on top of existing Internet, and
       | social media platforms without public APIs and with strict,
       | enforceable ToS would all help.
        
       | alex1138 wrote:
       | 1) Holy fuck I'd borderline forgotten about Numa Numa
       | 
       | 2) Reddit... doesn't have much of an incentive to fix the
       | astroturf issue. The site "organically" censors, a lot
        
       | aerhardt wrote:
       | I have to use LinkedIn to sell. I only occasionally look at the
       | feed but I am ruthlessly muting or blocking anyone who is
       | blatantly foisting their AI drivel on other humans. I've had
       | enough of this shit.
        
         | robotswantdata wrote:
         | unfollow works too
        
           | aerhardt wrote:
           | I've been unfollowing people for a while and the issue is
           | rarely from within my network anymore... the feed shows a lot
           | of posts from AI foisters who I don't even follow.
        
             | robotswantdata wrote:
             | Same. LinkedIn is now unusable for me. Will try blocking!
        
       | empath75 wrote:
       | Reddit in particular is overwhelmed by bots. There are small
       | niche communities where it's mostly people talking to people, but
       | the vast majority of popular posts are made by bots, voted on by
       | bots and commented on by bots.
       | 
       | It's not even like commercial astroturfing, it's just karma
       | farming and public sentiment manipulation.
        
         | demaga wrote:
         | I think it makes sense, since most people don't post anything
         | or at least don't post much. So someone (something) must fill
         | in this void.
        
         | TitaRusell wrote:
         | Presumably advertisers still want real human eyeballs?
         | 
         | Or maybe we have finally accepted that our entire economy is
         | the naked emperor.
        
       | rustystump wrote:
       | Everyone here is so far from a normie it is almost painful. Dead
       | internet is an outcome of supply and demand.
       | 
       | The fundamental issue is that a plurality of humans pref the
       | direction things have gone and are moving in. Is it a good
       | direction? By this crowd's standards, no.
       | 
       | To be clear, i dont like either but when i watch the speed kids
       | swap between 5 insta accounts and 3 reddit accounts, it seems the
       | majority are happy with it.
        
         | twoodfin wrote:
         | Let's not kid ourselves: Every day, multiple "I just asked the
         | LLM to clean up my notes" posts are voted up to the front page
         | here, often with highly engaged, appreciative comment sections.
         | 
         | LLM's for all their faults are well-trained to produce what we
         | want.
        
       | kmbfjr wrote:
       | Lots of interesting ideas to fix it, I'll offer mine: let it die.
       | 
       | The grand bargain of the web is gone and it ain't coming back.
        
       | pixl97 wrote:
       | Dead internet prophecy.
        
       | alexchantavy wrote:
       | Vrei sa pleci dar numa numa iei numa numa iei numa numa numa iei
       | 
       | bring back the old internet
        
       | wrs wrote:
       | > And of course let's not forget AI spamming OSS repos with
       | nonsensical PRs. What's even funnier is when the reviewer turns
       | out to be AI too.
       | 
       | What's even funnier is this is literally how "agent teams" (the
       | latest hotness) work. They just do it all on your laptop rather
       | than spamming GitHub.
        
       | jesse_dot_id wrote:
       | Thankfully, humans excel at finding solutions to problems.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Most of the time, by making more problems.
        
       | floathub wrote:
       | Emacs will solve this too:
       | 
       | https://github.com/tanrax/org-social
       | 
       | :-)
        
       | starkeeper wrote:
       | I just searched for a video game tip: "Bannerlord II where to
       | sell clay?" and google's top result was an AI generated page FOR
       | THIS GAME that directed me to ebay.
       | 
       | Also, I forgot to mention: google AI overview included the AI
       | garbage page as it's answer.
       | 
       | It's dead Jim.
        
       | dom96 wrote:
       | I think that we are going to see more and more of this. To the
       | point where most interactions you have online will likely be with
       | bots. So I started building something that actually has a chance
       | of fixing it: a social network for only humans.
       | 
       | I wrote about it here: https://blog.picheta.me/post/the-future-
       | of-social-media-is-h...
        
       | jruohonen wrote:
       | So, as I share his thoughts, I've been wondering: why haven't we
       | seen any real innovations in this space?
       | 
       | Mastodon wasn't really it and neither was Substack, although
       | maybe it got slightly closer. TikTok and Telegram, maybe, for
       | different reasons, but they'll face the same destiny.
       | 
       | I'd suppose the much despised "mainstream media" might be a
       | winner here eventually. But beyond that, I am thinking about
       | something like the following:
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/mar/10/uk-societ...
        
       | talkingtab wrote:
       | It is the corporate internet - the one by the corporation, for
       | the corporation that is dead. Or at least everything in it is
       | dead. The death blow is AI, but it was almost there anyway.
       | 
       | The good news is that the community internet - for the community,
       | by the community - is just starting.
       | 
       | What is a community internet? The internet is layered protocols.
       | UDP, ICMP, TCP, HTTP, HTTPS etc. The community internet is just a
       | new layer of protocols. Coming soon.
        
         | chewbacha wrote:
         | Sure, but just for reference: https://xkcd.com/927/
        
       | nszceta wrote:
       | This is the founding thesis of the dead internet theory:
       | https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/dead-internet-...
        
       | Kapura wrote:
       | People need to look long and hard at how they are using
       | technology, and ask how technology should be used. Every single
       | technological trend for the past 10 years has been smoke and
       | mirrors, promising utility of an iPhone but with deliverables
       | closer to a blockchain full of links to jpegs.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | Tbh I don't care if I speak to a human or a bot as long as they
       | are "useful"; by useful I mean if they provide me useful
       | information but then again humans can provide unique information
       | that bots can not. But I think identity is not relevant anymore,
       | what's relevant is reputation. People think internet bots are bad
       | per se but we need to build useful bots, just like there are chat
       | bots that are useful on various platforms like Telegram, Discord
       | or whatever other platforms people use.
        
         | ninjagoo wrote:
         | This is a great point. In the past and present, sites like
         | slashdot and HN depend on the users to achieve that moderation
         | to surface useful comments and keep 'spam' down.
         | 
         | Now, there are tools to achieve that kind of moderation
         | automagically, and even better, consistently. This is an
         | opportunity to build out a community that is useful for
         | everyone. The first platform that guarantees anonymity
         | supported by human-independent moderation will likely attract
         | significant and persistent user support.
         | 
         | There is still the issue of cost - how does the community pay
         | for such a platform? Perhaps like the Google of yore - very
         | limited ads? Avoiding enshittification can be done through the
         | Wikipedia model - non-profit to manage the whole thing?
        
       | vivid242 wrote:
       | In nature, sometimes death is the prerequisite of life: Think of
       | the dead leaves on the forest ground.
       | 
       | I think the age of algorithmic curation is dead - but it may,
       | through a ,,RenaiSSance", bring back true human connection.
        
       | butterlesstoast wrote:
       | Really makes me wonder. Is there anything we can do to revive the
       | internet or is it time to let the golden age go? : (
        
         | nwhnwh wrote:
         | What is wrong with real life?
        
       | abcde666777 wrote:
       | For a while video was a holdout of sorts - e.g. if someone posted
       | video content of themselves or their voice you could trust a real
       | person was behind it.
       | 
       | But now convincing fake video generation is easily accessible, so
       | one more holdout stands to fall.
       | 
       | It does seem like some kind of ID system is going to be the only
       | way. Sucky but inevitable.
       | 
       | I often have the following thought: technological advancement,
       | for all its boons, inevitably leads down destructive roads in the
       | long run. Sooner or later we open a pandora's box.
        
         | bytehowl wrote:
         | The technology isn't inherently evil. The actual problem is the
         | way our societies are set up, ironically incentivizing
         | sociopathic behaviour even among members of a single nation,
         | nevermind when geopolitics get involved.
        
         | mvdtnz wrote:
         | > convincing fake video generation is easily accessible, so one
         | more holdout stands to fall.
         | 
         | Is it though? I have absolutely no doubt we'll get there but I
         | haven't seen any evidence of this in the wild. My Youtube feed
         | is becoming overrun with content with clearly generated scripts
         | and often generated narration. But I haven't seen a single
         | instance (that I'm aware of) of generated video being passed
         | off as real.
         | 
         | Yes I have seen hundreds of tweets and reddit posts showcasing
         | game-changing video technologies like AI face replacement and
         | yes they look incredible in the 45 second demo reels, but every
         | instance I have seen of real-world usage was comically bad.
        
       | RobRivera wrote:
       | Maybe we should get more Jannies. They only cost zero dollars and
       | zero cents
        
       | irusensei wrote:
       | I imagine soon there will be small scale Tailscale style semi
       | private networks popping up with no AI content and no regards to
       | draconic identity collection laws.
        
       | Bombthecat wrote:
       | We are closing in on the "personal bubble internet" bots create
       | news, videos and comments for your personal liking.
        
       | protocolture wrote:
       | I reckon we are going find an inverse metcalfes at some stage
       | where the value of a network is proportional to the square of its
       | connected users, minus the square of the number of connected
       | bots. Heck I would be surprised if meta hadnt figured this out,
       | or wasnt on the way to figuring it out.
        
       | lovich wrote:
       | Ironic that there's a dead bot comment at the bottom of this
       | article trying to pose as a human
        
       | sebringj wrote:
       | Isn't this more about identity crisis? Not in the psychological
       | sense but in the internet sense? Who is real who isn't? Crypto
       | proof of work idk? Your profile like d LinkedIn or Hacker News or
       | something gives your clawbot x credits worth of legit automated
       | queries or rate limits on your behalf? It could be flipped upside
       | down where we don't spend our eyes off on reading websites
       | anymore, it just goes and gets it for us but I may be
       | hallucinating.
        
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