[HN Gopher] The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Ha...
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The Self-Help Trap: What 20 Years of "Optimizing" Has Taught Me
Author : bonefishgrill
Score : 96 points
Date : 2026-03-05 06:59 UTC (16 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tim.blog)
(TXT) w3m dump (tim.blog)
| DieErde wrote:
| It's the relationships, stupid
|
| But is it relationships with just anybody? Or relationships with
| emotionally healthy, intelligent, adventurous people who share my
| interests?
|
| Maybe I have to climb Maslow's pyramid to be compatible with
| those?
| 47282847 wrote:
| I believe it's a lifelong journey towards healthy relationships
| with anyone. We don't start there, and we might never get to
| the finish line. That includes non-violent boundary setting;
| not friends with everyone, but relationship. Soft boundaries,
| where you neither cling on to something that was but no longer
| is without the need to blame self or other, nor you avoid
| contact with something new and unknown. To let go of the fight
| against personal limits and circumstances one cannot change.
| Not at once, and not without testing, but layer by layer.
|
| Everybody is adventurous; each in their own way. You can invite
| people to your personal adventure, and be part of theirs, for
| as long or short as it serves the both of you.
| DieErde wrote:
| Everybody is adventurous; each in their own way.
|
| This is actually a common statement people make with whom I
| feel bored. I call it the "evasive defense".
|
| Me: "Let's fly to Paris tomorrow!"
|
| People: "Nah, I'm fine just doing what I did the last 3650
| days. I wonder how I deal with this issue I have with my boss
| at work. That is enough adventure for me."
|
| Me: "Trash the job! Let's start a startup!"
|
| People: "Nah, that is not for me. The benefit-to-work ratio
| at my current job is just too good."
| rendx wrote:
| Have you actually shown genuine interest in _their_
| adventures, or is it you who defines what is adventurous
| and what is not, and not see that they defend against
| _your_ interests, and by that protect their own? Why do you
| feel the need to make decisions for them? Is it _you_ that
| is unhappy about their choices, or is it them? (How did
| your parents react to your wishes and desires? Was your
| autonomy celebrated, or dismissed? Do you find yourself
| subordinating your own interests below those of others, and
| say yes to things you would rather say no to?)
| "NO is always a YES to something else." - Marshall
| Rosenberg
|
| I've been to Paris often enough, no thank you. And I prefer
| to go with people that respect and celebrate my autonomy. I
| wish you a good trip though!
| DieErde wrote:
| I'm not making decisions for anybody. You can stay at
| home and watch your garden grow. Fine with me. I
| described what type of people I like. And that those are
| rather the pyramid climbers.
| 47282847 wrote:
| Things I consider most adventurous: Facing past trauma
| and healing from it, including coming to terms and re-
| arranging family relationships and other social
| relationships without causing harm. Taking responsibility
| in the world, both for past actions and future ones.
| Raising children with unconditional love. Settling
| conflicts in ways that result in a good outcome for
| everyone involved. Arranging life in a way to make these
| activities possible.
|
| None of those adventures involve pyramids or startups,
| but a lot of courage, energy, and dragons.
|
| I wonder how much you know about what people consider
| their own adventures, and how many they have had to face.
| matwood wrote:
| Some empathy for other people would go a long way.
| DieErde wrote:
| I agree that more empathy would enrich mundane
| interactions.
|
| But I also think it is worthwhile to look for other
| adventurous people with whom I can share my own
| interests.
| matwood wrote:
| Adventure can take many forms, you just have to look
| outside yourself to see. For example, I've flown to Paris
| many times, that's no longer an adventure for me (though
| I do love visiting the Louvre any time I'm in Paris).
| Finding adventure and interest in everyday life whether
| it's traveling to a new place or visiting my local coffee
| shop is the real adventure for me. So many people are
| amazing, but you have to be curious. I wish you luck on
| finding whatever it is you're seeking.
| Throaway1985123 wrote:
| K but the person in his example said he was fine doing
| the same thing he had been doing for the bast decade, not
| that he didn't want to go to Paris cause hed already gone
| there. People enjoy their little ruts because they dont
| want to leave their comfort zone.
| eternauta3k wrote:
| This is something I keep thinking about: the spectrum between
| sainthood (selflessly hang out with the
| poor/uninteresting/selfish/etc) vs selfish optimization
| (becoming more interesting/pretty/rich/generous in order to
| have access to nicer people)
| rendx wrote:
| From my own experience, and yours might differ, I typically
| don't find that pretty or rich (or any other such attributes)
| make for more interesting and nicer. Why is it either
| selfless saint or egocentrism? You can do both!
| RugnirViking wrote:
| I imagine the person is talking about optimising along the
| lines you personally value for. Some people may value being
| with other interesting people (and being interesting
| themselves), wheras others prefer to be around smart
| people, or beautiful people, or rich people. Many see some
| of these desires as misguided or foolish or vain or
| whatever (often when it conflicts with their own values),
| but it is true that at least some people seem to want
| these.
| nakedneuron wrote:
| > the point was never yourself.
|
| > It was never the pyramid.
|
| > It was never the optimization.
|
| > It was the people around the fire.
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote:
| These self-help people are always looking for one liners which
| are true in every aspect of life, and reality isn't like that.
| You can see this in how often 2 different deep-truth one-liners
| contradict each other.
|
| On this post he says "it was the people around the fire", in
| other posts you have to find happiness in yourself and not
| depend on others for your happiness.
| azangru wrote:
| Is it a style like his that LLMs have been copying lately?
|
| "It was cold out, but none of us were cold."
|
| "In that moment, there was nothing to do. Nothing to improve.
| Nothing to fix. It was perfect."
|
| "We've all seen it. Clear as day, you can see the goal post at
| the top: self-actualization. LFG! It's time to journal and 80/20
| myself! Pass me a shaman and some modafinil. That's the mission.
| That's the point. Right? But hold on."
|
| "Because at the end of the day--and at the end of a Montana night
| --the point was never yourself. It was never the pyramid. It was
| never the optimization. It was the people around the fire."
| bitwize wrote:
| When my head-voice read "But hold on", I literally heard in my
| head the "record scratch" associated with comedy movie trailers
| from the 1990s and 2000s.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| He's been writing for decades now so that should be easy to
| verify. I'm sure LLMs are optimized for engaging online writing
| that's easy to digest
| apsurd wrote:
| First impression is that's really his writing. He's a
| professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a
| professional writer.
|
| very different from actually good writing, as in literature.
| art.
|
| Nothing against Mr. Ferris, just very clearly happen to come
| across these "i'm trying really hard at good writing" styles in
| influencer type blogs.
| azangru wrote:
| > First impression is that's really his writing. He's a
| professional writer. Thing is it's like trying to be a
| professional writer.
|
| I am not suggesting that this isn't his writing.
|
| What I was wondering was whether these are the elements of
| style that LLMs have picked up.
| apsurd wrote:
| Doubtful that any one dude could influence the model to
| that extent, unless deliberately weighted. Then again i
| don't know what the hell i'm talking about.
|
| From what i gather, openAi particular flavor of response is
| from reinforcement learning, these PMs are intentionally
| gamifying it. just today literally every reply was followed
| with "... want me to show you the one trick you can
| implement to avoid..."
|
| was gross.
| notaharvardmba wrote:
| This post strikes me as immature. Ask an older person like your
| grandfather what they think about "self help". And ask like you
| believe they are wiser than you, not some doddering fool from
| "another time". Look, we're all slaves to our childhood
| learnings. But you can change and learn to think in a new way--in
| a way that's you. Just be you.
| raincole wrote:
| The author is one of the biggest self-help book writers.
| Perhaps his self-help book sales started declining and he
| decided to pivot to some kind of anti-self-help genre.
| iammjm wrote:
| That's a cynical take. Ferris has been for years now focusing
| more and more on things like meditation and psychedelics.
| Plus he is super loaded and his podcast is huge
| raincole wrote:
| The existence of this domain is to sell books to you and I
| don't think it's a cynical take. It's the norm.
| mentalgear wrote:
| Exactly, the whole website is super PR-marketing wise, and a
| pop-up promotes his book with a "laid-back" portrait photo of
| himself. I think people are smart enough to find actual
| evidence-based self-guiding if they look at wikipedia or so
| .. we do not need 100.000 self-help gurus or as the tide turn
| gurus first promoting the former, now switching to the
| opposite.
| apsurd wrote:
| what would the older person say? in your experience.
| eucyclos wrote:
| I enjoy self improvement, but there is something deeply
| therapeutic about self non - improvement.
|
| I don't say 'self acceptance' because that's often described as a
| necessary precursor to changing whatever we find difficult to
| accept about ourselves.
| mettamage wrote:
| > I enjoy self improvement, but there is something deeply
| therapeutic about self non - improvement.
|
| Good point! I wish I wrote that, haha.
| apsurd wrote:
| self non-improvement.
|
| love it.
|
| existing
| mjklin wrote:
| In his Essays, Michel de Montaigne had a neighbor whose doctor
| told him not to eat a certain dish. When Montaigne asked him
| why he ate it anyway, he said he needed something to curse at.
| jackyli02 wrote:
| The "optimization" framing is where self-help tends to go wrong.
| Tyler Cowen has made a similar point that reading self-help books
| is often a form of procrastination disguised as productivity,
| because you're consuming meta-strategies rather than doing the
| actual work in whatever domain you care about.
| ghywertelling wrote:
| During time of peace, prosperity and ZIRP like phenomenon, self
| help takes on the form of Law of Attraction, The Secret etc.
|
| During time of war and uncertainty, self help takes on the form
| of Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
|
| We are conditioned beings, we respond to the macro environment
| and dynamics.
| mettamage wrote:
| > Self-help is dangerous precisely because it easily becomes
| self-fixation.
|
| In my self-help journey I came across meditation which ultimately
| led me to altruistic-based practices. So can't relate.
|
| > A focus on improving the self usually first requires finding
| problems with the self
|
| Oh I got in there the other way around. I wanted a few things out
| of life socially speaking but society was blocking me somehow. So
| I went out to investigate why that is and then studied it all and
| then solved my own problem. In order to do that, I had to improve
| myself as I wasn't connecting well with the world. I'm much
| happier with how I do that nowadays.
| apsurd wrote:
| There's a lot of "I"s in your paragraph there.
|
| I think it's worth it to be ok with everyone being a little bit
| in the same boat of wanting to self-help, then becoming
| enamored with buddhist ideas, then grappling with everyday
| being just another human. In whatever order.
|
| I'm sure you mean well but just kinda irked me that you
| immediately put in the effort to "nope can't relate"
| egwor wrote:
| I think that hearing other points of view is important.
|
| I see time and time again that posts insinuate that there's
| no other point of view, and I think that highlighting one
| perspective is enough to show that this (as in the article)
| isn't some mathematically perfect piece of advice.
| mettamage wrote:
| This is my intention, thanks. It's also not to say that my
| opinion is perfect either, it isn't.
| mettamage wrote:
| > I'm sure you mean well but just kinda irked me that you
| immediately put in the effort to "nope can't relate"
|
| In part that's because I see the message of the post way too
| often and I haven't seen my message around that much. It's
| just to counterbalance it. I don't think the message of the
| post is wrong per se, but to me it comes across as such a
| strong statement of "this is how it is" that I want to say
| equally strong back (as one vote of the general public)
| "nope, can't relate, here is briefly why"
| watwut wrote:
| If someone makes generic statements that apply to all, it is
| 100% ok to answer with I cant relate.
|
| Frankly, even superior. Too many people frame own feelings
| and individual experiences and general universal or even
| rational truths.
| Propelloni wrote:
| Modern self-help is as much a sham as are management gurus, which
| is no surprise because they overlap. Who cannot recall "Start
| with why?" or the "7 habits of highly effective people"? They
| play on your insecurities and promise silver bullets. If they
| don't work it is because you are, of course, deficient. You need
| another self-help book or follow this guy on Insta. Indulging all
| this self-help stuff is just another form of procrastination,
| instead of doing it you talk and read about doing it. It's just
| like learning Org-mode (no offense) to be better organized
| instead of, you know, organizing.
|
| My waking call was, ironically, another management book "The
| Management Myth" by Matthew Steward (I think), which just showed
| me the ridiculousness of it all.
| jpc0 wrote:
| Of all the self help books I have actually read, The 7 Habits
| is probably the one that had consistently been useful in
| actually navigating issues day to day.
|
| And I read it probably closer to two decades ago.
| matwood wrote:
| There's definitely a procrastination trap that someone has to
| be aware of, but I wouldn't say all the self-help/management is
| a sham. Much like people who get stuck researching, there comes
| a point where you simply have to act. There's also value in
| learning how to quickly pull items out of texts that you can
| use right now and discarding the rest.
|
| I liken it to jiujitsu in a way. When I first started and knew
| nothing, I needed a lot of instruction and of course then
| practice. After years of that, I can now take a simple tweak to
| something I've been doing for years and suddenly it's much more
| effective. Finding those tweaks is the challenge, while also
| avoiding chasing silver bullets or bouncing to new thing after
| new thing and never getting good at something.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| In my experiences, professional help is often just as much of a
| sham too.
| andreidbr wrote:
| I enjoy Tim's content and in the last couple of years he's
| definitely gone beyond his established "shtick". He's definitely
| done his own "dog-fooding", testing advice on himself and he's
| found some awesome people along the way.
|
| I'm happy that he has gone beyond the "book / author of the week"
| format and this blog post is most welcomed.
|
| Relationships are crucial, especially ones that help elevate
| yourself or, at least, keep you on a stable level instead of
| dragging you down.
| mekaoro wrote:
| okay this was very interesting "To continually improve yourself,
| you must continually locate the ways you are broken" haven't
| thought of it this way. Maybe I need to look into why i keep
| finding new books.
| PunchyHamster wrote:
| > The older I get, the more I think that self-help can be a trap.
| Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. I say this after
| ~20 years of writing self-help and a lifetime of consuming it.
|
| so, the self help didn't help and he passed the problem on his
| readers. Great!
| mchaver wrote:
| I am sure it helped his wallet though. Be wary of the aging
| sophist that repents.
| mjklin wrote:
| If Books Could Kill did a podcast on "The Four-Hour Workweek"
| and pointed out he explains the scam he's running on his own
| readers. I guess he figures the smart (?) ones can recreate
| it and the rest just follow the herd.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| I am reminded of the multiple retired US GOP politicians who
| show a change of heart and break with their party's
| direction, sometimes admitting they were part of the problem.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| Poor Timmy. It's hard when you spend two decades recycling the
| same crap-now we have to denounce said crap and gargle more "new"
| crap.
|
| Self-help has never helped anyone. If it did, there wouldn't be a
| massive industry waiting to prey on the people who are desperate
| for help.
| cachius wrote:
| >> If I fix the things that aren't OK, all will be well. If I
| improve myself enough, if I only work hard enough, I can finally
| eliminate my suffering.
|
| >I hate to inform you, but this doesn't work. I'm also thrilled
| to inform you that this doesn't work. You can stop picking up a
| lot of boulders.
|
| Really reminds me of Oliver Burkeman. Take
| https://www.oliverburkeman.com/never for a start:
|
| I might be stuck with certain inner disturbances forever [...] It
| turns out my really big problem was thinking I might one day get
| rid of all my problems, when the truth is that there's no
| escaping the mucky, malodorous compost-heap of this reality.
| Which is OK, actually. Compost is the stuff that helps things
| grow.
| IAmBroom wrote:
| "The purpose of psychotherapy is to turn neurotic anguish into
| ordinary suffering", or something to that effect.
| cachius wrote:
| Re: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:
|
| A critical footnote got lost in the shuffle. In his later
| writings, especially notes compiled in The Farther Reaches of
| Human Nature from 1971, Maslow added a sixth level above self-
| actualization:
|
| Self-transcendence
|
| It means going beyond the self--seeking connection with something
| greater, such as service to others, nature, art, or the divine.
|
| Why is it important? Well, for one thing, as Tony Robbins put it
| at an event long ago: "'I, I, I, me, me, me' gets to be a really
| fucking boring song." But it's not just a boring song; it's
| dangerous to your health. Self-help [can be] dangerous precisely
| because it easily becomes self-fixation.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Self-help books are based on first telling you you have a
| problem, then selling the solution. I get that some are actually
| correct, but the industry as a whole can only be sustained by
| inventing new problems and/or making sure newer generations learn
| about existing ones.
|
| Ferris is a self-help book author, and while I kinda get where
| he's driving at, it also feels like he's just doing the same
| thing again, but meta - overconsumption of self-help book is like
| a dog chasing its tail (or a snake giving himself a BJ?), here's
| a solution. I'm somewhat surprised it's just an affiliate link
| blogpost instead of a whole book.
| Aurornis wrote:
| I agree with your assessment.
|
| Tim Ferriss has always been good at identifying the next trends
| in the self-help space and positioning himself as an expert for
| trending themes. I think he might be acknowledging that self-
| help markets are saturated with all of the life extension
| influencers trying to one up each other with their protocols
| and supplement stacks.
|
| This might be a trial balloon to see if this topic has legs for
| another book or product.
| Muromec wrote:
| the post itself sells at least two books on buddhism already
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote:
| Hm - even an essay knocking down self-help has the same flaws
| that self-help itself. It tries to reduce everything to a couple
| of vague principles and clal it a day. It 100% reads like
| something written by someone who's been consuming self-help
| advice for 20 years. Useless.
| pkaral wrote:
| Lots of good points. Just want to point out that this can quickly
| become another self improvement project with its own sources of
| stress, insecurity and so forth.
|
| In Tibetan Buddhism, there is a lojong slogan: "Self-liberate
| even the antidote". It refers to exactly this -- the practices we
| use to get away from bad habits may themselves become bad habits.
| Rather than embarking on an infinitely recursive run of trying to
| stop self-improving, just don't be black-and-white about things.
|
| One source (of many): https://medium.com/kaitlynschatch/lojong-
| practice-journal-se...
| ismail wrote:
| Agree with most of what he says. Fundamentally, we are relational
| and moral beings.
|
| In Africa there is the concept of Ubuntu "I am because we are".
| Identity and personhood arises within community, rather than
| being constructed indivudually.
|
| I think we need to differentiate between self-help in the modern
| sense, and viewing the self as a continuous process of engaging
| in meaningful activities, within community, with purpose that
| helps cultivate virtue. i.e "Becoming"
|
| When self-help is treated as only individual optimisation,
| without any ultimate end it risk becoming self-referential.
|
| Philosopher Charles Taylor describes a similar shift with
| modernity that he calls "Disengaged reason" [0]. Where reason is
| disconnected from moral frameworks, that once helped orient us.
|
| The deeper issue may be Self-help/Improvement that is often not
| contained within these larger frameworks of meaning, that answer:
|
| To what ultimate end?
|
| [0]
| https://www.academia.edu/26548899/Disciplinarity_and_Islamic...
|
| previously discussed here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46743214
|
| also here:
|
| https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ismaildhorat_a-new-world-does...
| Bishonen88 wrote:
| Didn't realize who's blog I'm reading. I was intrigued by the
| title, being a fan of 'self help' books. I mostly read about
| productivity (i.e. Feel-Good Productivity is a good one IMO),
| health, living a balanced life etc. and was expecting to find
| some a-ha moments in this post. I didn't. It confused me more
| than anything often talking about 'relationships' as if this is
| the only self-help kind of book there is.
|
| And I have learnt a ton of lessons from self help books like the
| one I mentioned above, Arete, "how to make friends and influence
| people", Atomic Habits and others, without looking to fix any
| unhappiness, flaws of myself or whatnot. Was just curious what
| other, more experience people have learned about life that I can
| learn without having to wait 20-30+ years.
| rramadass wrote:
| Nonsense; This guy (and others of his ilk) is just a hustler.
|
| People seem to lose all their common sense as soon as somebody
| trots out easy-sounding-without-effort-for-the-price-of-a-book
| soothing advice to solve all their problems.
|
| Meanwhile the real "self-help" exists in plain sight in the
| domains of Philosophy and Psychology coupled with an
| understanding of Neuroscience/Biology.
|
| People should checkout Hindu Philosophies of Samkhya and Yoga,
| Buddhist Philosophies of Japanese Zen and Tibetan Lojong,
| Greek/Roman Stoic Philosophies of Epictetus, Seneca, Cicero,
| Marcus Aurelius.
|
| On the Psychology side checkout Self-Determination Theory,
| Applied Behavioural Analysis and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.
|
| On the Neuroscience/Biology front checkout the importance of
| circadian rhythms/diet/exercise/sleep along with needed essential
| minerals/vitamins/etc.
|
| That will give you all the information you need to devise your
| own workable self-help regimen.
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