[HN Gopher] Daily Driving GrapheneOS
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Daily Driving GrapheneOS
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 128 points
       Date   : 2026-03-03 05:18 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.matthewbrunelle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.matthewbrunelle.com)
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | 2027 will be the year of the Graphene phone.
        
       | sankalpmukim wrote:
       | good writeup. I've been meaning to set this up for myself too. I
       | keep uninstalling apps from my phone every other day because if I
       | use something very little, I am afraid the app is collecting data
       | from my usage in some way or the other.
       | 
       | I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to
       | go back if I don't like it?
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | Yes, it's super simple to install GrapheneOS and to revert to
         | the factory OS on Google Pixels. It is done from Chrome browser
         | with phone connected via USB cable, no need to install
         | anything. Of course when you'll switch, you'll lose all data on
         | your phone, basically like factory reset (but esims survive I
         | think).
        
           | razingeden wrote:
           | eSIMs survive the grapheneOS install...
           | 
           | Because when I had set it up, grapheneOS itself couldn't
           | install or set one up unless it was previously installed
           | under the old OS.
           | 
           | So I had to set up my carrier and then install grapheneOS.
           | 
           | It can install eSIMs on its own now so this doesn't matter
           | other than confirming the eSIM carries over.
           | 
           | I've never reverted to stock android and I'm never looking
           | back so idk if the eSIM survives the round trip.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | _I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I 'll be
         | able to go back if I don't like it?_
         | 
         | Yeah, it is very easy, it's described here:
         | 
         | https://grapheneos.org/install/web#replacing-grapheneos-with...
         | 
         | Similar to GrapheneOS, Google also has a web installer (linked
         | from the above section). Just in case you didn't know - both
         | installing GrapheneOS and recovering the stock OS will remove
         | all data as well.
        
         | n8cpdx wrote:
         | Both install and reversion to stock OS are incredibly easy.
         | Just back up first.
        
         | hrmtst93837 wrote:
         | You can switch back to the stock OS if GrapheneOS doesn't work
         | out for you. Just be aware that the process might take some
         | time and effort, so be ready to tinker a bit.
        
       | skeptic_ai wrote:
       | I've tried but: couldn't get my card to work on wallet. Can't
       | verify.
       | 
       | Uber couldn't verify payment so I couldn't take a ride when
       | needed.
        
         | rudhdb773b wrote:
         | Contactless payments are often a problem, but adding a card for
         | Uber (directly in the app) should work. I use it frequently,
         | along with Grab, Bolt, Maxim, etc.
        
         | foxes wrote:
         | It's googles fault that cards can't work in graphene.
         | 
         | Google needs to whitelist graphene basically to work in the
         | wallet app.
         | 
         | On that note, given that graphene is focused around security
         | and privacy, perhaps not givng your payment data to google is
         | probably a good thing
        
           | skeptic_ai wrote:
           | Can't use my phone to pay becomes kind of useless
        
         | bestouff wrote:
         | Strange, i'm using Uber regularly with GrapheneOS.
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | Wallet was one of the reasons I abandoned my well working
         | lineageOS phone on a redmi note 10 as it was a cat and mouse
         | game over month. I feel as long as a vendor does not support an
         | os and Google is so hostile against modifications, it is not a
         | good feeling that they can pull the rug at any time. I was
         | multiple times in the situation when I wanted to pay with the
         | phone and was in the end rejected. I think we need to take NFC
         | wallets and esims away from phone/os vendors again. A seperate
         | NFC enabled vendor independent trusted platform would be IMHO
         | the way to go. Especially with ID wallets and universal bank
         | wallets on the way in Europe. This that they cannot use
         | security as a killer argument to keep us in their walled
         | gardens. I know the solution is cards or a second phone, but
         | affordance counts.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | I think the second problem is unrelated to the smartphone OS.
         | You can use Uber using only the website, a smartphone is not
         | even needed to use it.
        
           | skeptic_ai wrote:
           | Well I'm a tech person and I'd never think of using the
           | browser. But thanks
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | I am a tech person and I like to control the web traffic I
             | send on the internet and which code or at least their
             | source I execute on my computer.
             | 
             | Mobile apps are mostly black boxes in that regard.
        
       | vbezhenar wrote:
       | TBH What I wanted from the world is AOSP distribution. Built
       | similarly to GrapheneOS in terms of distribution, ease of
       | install. But I just don't feel I need all these privacy
       | enhancements and stuff, I'm perfectly fine with ordinary system
       | compiled from Google sources with proper update schedule. Also I
       | don't want to see anything installed out of the box, except maybe
       | single app to install AOSP apps, F-Droid, Play Store, just APK
       | from the given URL. So basically almost empty mobile OS which
       | user fully customizes, no predefined choices, no custom patches.
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | So what is wrong with lineage in this case?
        
           | vbezhenar wrote:
           | I know very little about lineageos. Their website contains
           | very few docs, so I don't really understand what's this
           | project is about. They don't mention Pixel 10, so I guess
           | it's not supported.
           | 
           | GrapheneOS website in comparison contains a lot of things to
           | read, so after a hour of thorough reading I had good
           | impression what GrapheneOS is.
        
             | omnimus wrote:
             | Are the websites really that different? (i use iphone) I
             | checked both homepages and impression I got is that Lineage
             | is android that focuses on long term support (the name
             | points that out) and Graphene is not android (ok?) and it's
             | focused on security.
             | 
             | Your Pixel 10 is not in Lineage devices so i would also
             | assume it's not supported. (maybe it's too new?)
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | Yes, as I understand it lineageos is focused on
               | supporting phones AFTER the mamufacturer stops supporting
               | them - a pixel 10 is still supported afaik.
        
             | alfiedotwtf wrote:
             | LineageOS was one of the OG de-googled Android ROMs,
             | renamed a few years after Android Jellybean IIRC.
             | 
             | This new glass UI and the Face ID kind of not working
             | anymore since upgrading my iPhone, I think I'll be going
             | back to Android
        
               | timschumi wrote:
               | > LineageOS was one of the OG de-googled Android ROMs,
               | renamed a few years after Android Jellybean IIRC.
               | 
               | Existing since 2009 as CyanogenMod and since 2016 as
               | LineageOS, that would have been around the time where
               | Android 7 (Nougat) was current.
               | 
               | PS: Not that we are in any way degoogled, other than what
               | we are forced to by the license.
        
               | alfiedotwtf wrote:
               | Thanks Tim... my memory is fuzzy - that was a lot of
               | phones ago.
               | 
               | ... and thank you for your continued effort! I have very
               | big love for CyanogenMod/LineageOS, and that's coming
               | from a heavy pre-XDA user (I've had them all - PalmOS,
               | Zaraus, XDA o2, Maemo, FirefoxOS, Ubuntu phone user).
        
         | throawayonthe wrote:
         | tbh it sounds like you do want grapheneos :p
         | 
         | it's very minimal ootb and has a better update schedule than
         | 95% of oems (alas)
         | 
         | you can install google play store & services from the app
         | store, and pretty much everything will just work as you might
         | imagine
        
           | microtonal wrote:
           | _it 's very minimal ootb and has a better update schedule
           | than 95% of oems (alas)_
           | 
           | Any OEM right? Google is the fastest OEM with Pixel and
           | GrapheneOS often rolls out patches earlier than Google (not
           | bound by a monthly schedule + they do embargoed patches when
           | you use the right branch).
        
         | ryncewynd wrote:
         | Same here. I've been trying to find a "plain Android" phone but
         | everything seems heavily customised UI by the manufacturers
         | now.
         | 
         | I just found out today I can't call anymore due to 3G ending in
         | my city
         | 
         | I'm keen for a Motorola Graphene and then just install Google
         | services anyway. For me the value is being freed from
         | manufacturers UI and software
        
         | ForHackernews wrote:
         | You could try https://iode.tech/iodeos/ or
         | https://e.foundation/e-os/ but neither is as minimalist as
         | you'd like.
        
       | cocoto wrote:
       | Personally I would just love Apple to be forced by governments to
       | open up their hardware by releasing complete documentation of
       | their hardware and allowing to install another os or dual boot.
       | iPhones hardware is really good and would love booting Linux on
       | theses. And then force every services company to provide an API
       | to their services so we have an alternative to their app. I guess
       | Motorola partnering with GrapheneOS will not change anything in
       | this space because contactless payments and some apps will not
       | work and fundamentally because the sales will be way below
       | mainstream brands like Apple/Samsung. Governments need to step up
       | here.
        
         | mastermage wrote:
         | There is only one government that might be inclined to do that
         | and thats the EU. But good luck lobbying this.
        
         | fph wrote:
         | Contactless payments work in Graphene OS. Not with Google Pay,
         | but with other apps like Curve and Paypal.
        
       | Rnonymous wrote:
       | I wish i could switch but bank apps and contactless payments keep
       | me on stock pixel.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | Is this a European thing? Why not use a credit card?
        
           | oerdier wrote:
           | I think it's healthy for a population to not have as part of
           | day-to-day life to pay with credit, effectively paying with
           | money you might not actually have, going into debt. How many
           | US citizens are crippled by credit card debt, and the
           | interest on it?
        
             | n8cpdx wrote:
             | You can pay with credit card as a convenience + fraud
             | protection mechanism without ever paying interest by just
             | paying your bill off every month.
             | 
             | When chip and pin was first rolled out, Europeans were
             | shocked by the low security of swipe cards in the US. The
             | reason that wasn't an issue for Americans was (and still
             | is) that credit cards have excellent fraud protections.
             | 
             | If someone steals my credit card, it is the bank's problem,
             | not mine.
             | 
             | The risk of paying by debit card on a regular basis is
             | unfathomable to me, even with fancy tech to try to make it
             | secure.
        
               | oerdier wrote:
               | I wasn't suggesting individuals shouldn't be able to pay
               | with credit. I have a credit card myself, which I use
               | when I can't pay with debit. I was suggesting that for a
               | population as a whole, having paying with credit being so
               | commonplace leads to crippling debt issues, which as far
               | as I can believe "the reports", is an issue in the US.
               | 
               | Your comment on the risk of paying with debit cards
               | surprised me. I've never considered it a risk at all. It
               | made me realize that perhaps here (in the Netherlands) we
               | have consumer protection systems in place, in addition to
               | the payment systems, that prevent any issues.
        
             | FireInsight wrote:
             | You also get contactless payment on debit cards.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | It's not about credit/debit, it's about phone/card.
             | Americans tend to use "credit card" as a generic term for
             | payment cards.
             | 
             | And yes, phone NFC payment is one of those technically
             | unnecessary conveniences that's really easy to get used to.
             | You probably already have your phone out or at least
             | accessible in like one second, paying with it instead of
             | pulling out your wallet and finding a card or even cash is
             | just sooo nice. I hate that I've gotten this used to it.
             | 
             | That being said, you can still get NFC payment on a rooted
             | or reflashed phone. Instead of Google Wallet, find a bank
             | or card provider that has their own app. I use the Curve
             | "proxy card" and it works fine.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | In my case sliding my card out of my wallet is faster
               | than unlocking my phone given the lack of consistency of
               | the fingerprint reader of my google pixel when using my
               | smartphone case (and I am too clumsy to use a smartphone
               | without a case covering both sides, broke too many
               | screenw already). Some people just leave the card on
               | their smartphone case too.
               | 
               | I also see a lot of people struggling because they need
               | to pay while being on a call or because their smartphone
               | is just way too big to be handled comfortably with one
               | hand given the size of their hands.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Using debit or credit cards is unrelated to the UX. Both
             | are available with google wallet or physically.
        
               | subscribed wrote:
               | Very different risks.
               | 
               | Physical CC can be used by anyone holding it or actually
               | just standing close.
               | 
               | Contactless payment with phone only after the phone is
               | unlocked( _).
               | 
               | Physical card contactless payments have a limit (don't
               | remember it) after which you have to use it with pin. At
               | least all mine. Boring. Payments with apple/hoogle/Garmin
               | have higher transaction limit.
               | 
               | I could probably go on longer but these are for me.
               | 
               | (_) I know it can be done without, but it also can be
               | done with.
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | In Europe? Debit cards. Hardly anyone uses a credit card in a
           | supermarket.
           | 
           | If I'm going out I'll have both a debit card and cash in my
           | wallet. Given that large scale outages of payment networks
           | are no longer theoretical but to be expected, not carrying
           | cash is just silly. Since I have a wallet in any case, I see
           | no point in using contactless payments on a smartphone -- I
           | usually don't take it with me when getting groceries.
           | 
           | I have no idea if I can even do contactless phone payments on
           | GrapheneOS, but since everything else works (including my
           | bank's app), I don't care.
        
             | elric wrote:
             | > In Europe? Debit cards. Hardly anyone uses a credit card
             | in a supermarket.
             | 
             | Such sweeping statements are impossible for "Europe". It's
             | a big place. Plenty of people use credit cards in
             | supermarkets. But it's orthogonal to the discussion. A
             | creditcard can be contactless or on a phone. Or on a watch.
        
               | Freak_NL wrote:
               | Of course it is a big place. It is also a big place where
               | credit cards just aren't a thing for most people:
               | 
               | https://n26.com/en-eu/blog/taboo-of-credit
               | 
               | That article lists some reasons why using a credit card
               | doesn't make sense in most European countries. It's not a
               | way to build up your credit score for one. As a Dutchman,
               | the only way I can lower my credit score is by taking on
               | debts (with the exception of a mortgage).
               | 
               | The US is a big place too. I am fairly comfortable in
               | making the sweeping statement that credit cards are a
               | thing used by many people there.
        
               | elric wrote:
               | > It is also a big place where credit cards just aren't a
               | thing for most people
               | 
               | Nonsense. It's hard to find actual statistics on the
               | number of credit cards, but it's obvious that the
               | Netherlands are an outlier, with a paltry 0.02 credit
               | cards per capita, vs Luxemburg's 3.98 (wtf). If I filter
               | out the non-EU countries from the dataset below, I end up
               | with 0.5 credit cards per capita. That's nowhere near
               | "not a thing for most people". They're just "not a thing"
               | in NL. Big difference.
               | 
               | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1395502/credit-cards-
               | in-...
        
               | dns_snek wrote:
               | If 25 people have 4 credit cards each and 75 people have
               | none, then we have 1 card/capita, but only 25% of the
               | population uses credit cards.
               | 
               | The median seems to be 0.25 cards/capita. Your own source
               | already ~agrees that they're "not a thing for most
               | people" (if we're really pedantic we can start looking at
               | populations of those countries), but to find a more
               | realistic estimate for the percentage of the population
               | who use credit cards we would have to divide this figure
               | by the average number of credit cards among people who
               | have at least one.
        
           | chrizel wrote:
           | In Europe contactless payment is nearly everywhere - nearly
           | every store supports it. Even in Germany (which is
           | historically very pro-cash), since Covid more and more people
           | pay with card and many of whom pay contactless.
           | 
           | In the EU we have some rules that even contactless payments
           | with card sometimes, but not always, need to have some kind
           | of additional authentication in the form of entering your
           | PIN. Contactless payment methods via phone or watch don't
           | have this need because they already have their own
           | authentication methods. That's why so many people pay with
           | their phone or watch. Its just more convenient and always
           | contactless. (no PIN needed)
           | 
           | How is it in the US? Are things like Apple Pay still limited
           | to certain stores?
        
             | Markoff wrote:
             | I live in Europe, I experienced many people paying with the
             | phone/watches, it was never faster than tapping the bank
             | card. Anyway PIN is required only for purchases over 20EUR.
        
             | Flameancer wrote:
             | Not really. Outside of Walmart and maybe a smaller store
             | ran by an older mom and pop shop, you can use NFC payments
             | practically anywhere even at a drive thru. Only reason I
             | still have my wallet is mainly for drivers license, but
             | even that's on the horizon.
        
         | bergheim wrote:
         | so use a card? there is always something. breaking free is
         | never going to be without ANY inconveniences, it's how they
         | build their moat after all. okay so once those two work, one
         | goes to the next thing on the list; "I wish I could switch but
         | I can't use gboard on it and the swiping is 0.5% better than
         | the stock keyboard so it's unusable to me"
         | 
         | (you can use gboard, that was just an example - but it's always
         | these small inconveniences, just like in the chrome vs firefox
         | threads)
        
         | dns_snek wrote:
         | I use 5 different banking apps and 3 other financial/investment
         | apps and they all work fine, you should check compatibility
         | with yours [1]. And to be precise, contactless payments work
         | but not through Google Pay - I've heard that Curve is a viable
         | alternative, and some banks might have their own systems that
         | aren't based on Google Pay (though most seem to be).
         | 
         | [1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-
         | compa...
        
       | ZlibraryKO wrote:
       | I've been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years now, and it's
       | been perfect for me. Contactless payments used to work fine, but
       | then my bank switched to Google Wallet. Since then, I've just
       | kept a physical card tucked behind my phone case so I can use it
       | when needed.
        
       | tl2do wrote:
       | I admire the de-Googled approach of GrapheneOS. As a lawyer,
       | privacy concerns resonate with me too. I love the rebellious
       | attitude of tech that presents an alternative choice in an overly
       | duopolistic market.
       | 
       | That said, I wouldn't last 8.4 months like the author. Even
       | though he admits to some Google app usage, I'm in too deep -- I'd
       | never be able to get out. But if I get the chance, I'd like to
       | try it on a secondary phone. Those solid black icons are one
       | reason. They look cool.
        
         | throawayonthe wrote:
         | you can use mostly google appsand still benefit (e.g. unlike
         | google android, play services aren't privileged and are
         | sandboxed like any other app)
         | https://grapheneos.org/features#sandboxed-google-play
         | 
         | also you can restrict some apps network permissions, for
         | example i use the google camera app with the network disabled
         | :p
        
         | traxler wrote:
         | Not wanting to discourage you from trying Graphene, but the
         | icons are probably not a good reason. Can always install an
         | alternative launcher and icon pack on stock android.
         | 
         | Running Graphene for a long time now, everything works
         | perfectly fine, but I don't do mobile banking.
        
           | rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
           | I do mobile banking and use GrapheneOS daily (2 online banks
           | + 2 trading platforms).
           | 
           | I also work in mobile app/SDK publishing as a business dev
           | and it's critical that I can install my clients' apps
           | (thousand+) in private space.
           | 
           | It works great for me.
        
         | mastermage wrote:
         | my take on this is to some advocates probably shocking. But I
         | think you don't need to perfectly switch and never touch
         | anything google again.
         | 
         | I personally just encourage people to take a look at what you
         | are using, and if you could gradually change some of it. Who
         | knows sometimes alternatives even offer better services. I am
         | not saying never use anything google ever again. Just question
         | your tools regularly and peruse the alternatives.
        
         | polairscience wrote:
         | Graphene supports the 6a, which unlocked goes for ~$100 on
         | ebay. I imagine you can swing that as a lawyer to play around.
         | 
         | I'll also echo the ideas from everyone else here. You can just
         | use it as a normal Android phone the way you do any other and
         | there's still big benefits. There's also really big benefits in
         | terms of carrier privacy that aren't often talked about, like
         | vpn routing and hotspot usage.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | While this is good news, the cynical in me is waiting for
       | Motorola GrapheneOS, with the changes that make it actually
       | relevant for normies, and then the whole idea goes the way of
       | netbooks.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | GrapheneOS had an estimated 400,000 users three months ago
         | (based on update downloads) and the user base seems to be
         | growing quite fast. I think for Motorola, potentially a few
         | million users buying flagships for GrapheneOS are a very
         | attractive market. So, I'm not cynical.
        
       | traxler wrote:
       | For all the "My Banking Apps don't work", I'd raise one question:
       | 
       | Do you really need access to banking apps on the go? I get that
       | it can be handy and maybe you legit do, but I'd wager most people
       | don't really do. If you can pay by phone you can pay by card and
       | the card has less potentially to weirdly break.
       | 
       | And if your bank demands a phone app to be used, you can always
       | have a cheap stock android lying around at home. Can't get stolen
       | or lost. Doesn't give big G any data on you, because that phone
       | doesn't have anything but those apps.
       | 
       | But I also understand "just have a second phone" is not a
       | tempting idea for many people. I am not much of a phone person,
       | so I'm not a good case study, but it works fine for me.
        
         | pietro72ohboy wrote:
         | I cannot speak for every country but in the Netherlands, your
         | banking app also serves as a 2FA instrument if you place orders
         | with your credit card. A pop-up notification will ask you to
         | confirm if you have indeed placed the order. While I will admit
         | that it is possible to predict such use cases and take your
         | phone along, it is becoming a bit difficult to predict what
         | part of some account or service's login flow will require a
         | confirmation with your device.
        
           | microtonal wrote:
           | Luckily, all/most Dutch bank apps work on GrapheneOS.
           | 
           | (Not saying that you claimed they didn't.)
        
           | traxler wrote:
           | Huh, interesting. I only have those 2FA popups for card
           | payments online or in apps, never for payments in stores.
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure that's what your parent is describing.
             | 
             | In my case, I often spend multiple days at my parents'
             | house. Now, I mostly don't order online, but sometimes
             | something comes up and in that kind of situation, most
             | merchants will have me go through the verification.
             | 
             | Since this doesn't happen frequently, I'm more likely than
             | not to not have hauled my secondary phone, especially since
             | I very much prefer traveling light. Now, could most of
             | those occasional purchases not have waited for my return
             | home? Eh... most probably could've. Doesn't make it less
             | annoying, though, for no good reason.
        
         | Valodim wrote:
         | Mobile apps are how most people do banking these days, and it
         | shows. In my experience banking apps are a lot more maintained
         | and modern than classic online banking interfaces.
         | 
         | So you're not just sacrificing "on the go" banking, you are
         | likely sacrificing use of the best interface your bank offers.
        
           | microtonal wrote:
           | Also, most smartphones (especially GrapheneOS, iOS, Pixel,
           | etc) are far more secure than desktops/laptops. So also from
           | a security perspective it's better to do banking on a phone.
        
             | learingsci wrote:
             | And it's very hard to actually steal a cellphone since it's
             | always with you, whereas houses get broken into all the
             | time.
        
               | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
               | This has to be some fascinating regional difference,
               | because my personal experiences suggest the opposite.
               | Would you be willing to elaborate ( in general
               | terms/locations if too sensitive )?
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | I wonder if phone theft specifically hasn't (somewhat)
               | gone down now that most are encrypted and tied to some
               | online account by default. Maybe criminals have heard
               | about this, and they focus on other things.
               | 
               | Where I live, people still carry cash (though not absurd
               | amounts) and credit cards, and I understand that's what
               | most pickpockets are after. Especially since, after
               | covid, the limit for contactless payments has increased.
        
               | microtonal wrote:
               | Burglars recently broke into my parents' house and they
               | left the MacBook and iPads. Most informed thieves
               | probably know that they are bound to an account, can
               | easily be blocked, and there is no use trying to sell
               | them.
               | 
               | I would assume its more and more the case with phones as
               | well. ~10-15 years ago I heard often about smartphones
               | getting stolen out of people's pockets, etc. Not so much
               | anymore.
               | 
               | Non-Apple laptops is probably a different game.
        
               | akimbostrawman wrote:
               | True but you can also argue the opposite since its a lot
               | easier to loose it and more exposed to more people that
               | could be thieves.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | Unless you use Qubes OS (which I do).
        
               | microtonal wrote:
               | Maybe, but this is irrelevant to 99.99% of bank users out
               | there.
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | It means that banks cannot say "desktop is insecure,
               | therefore a mobile app is required for your security". I
               | can manage my own security in a better way.
        
           | traxler wrote:
           | Sadly true, while not being a phone person, I have started
           | using my home banking phone for tasks I used to do on my
           | desktop. Still never leaves my office.
        
           | vladvasiliu wrote:
           | I don't have the same experience. My main bank is a huge
           | European bank, and their app is laughably bad. You have to
           | jump to an impressive number of screens to reach anything
           | other than "last / upcoming transactions" lists. Many are
           | actually just janky webviews, yet they _still_ somehow manage
           | to work worse than their website. Bonus points for it being
           | "temporarily under maintenance" seemingly every other day.
           | 
           | I should note that the website is pretty janky itself, but at
           | least it works fine (meaning "not worse") on Firefox on
           | Linux, and it doesn't even pester me to change browsers or
           | anything.
           | 
           | I also have an account with one of those new "online" banks
           | for when I travel, since they have better exchange rates,
           | and, importantly, no conversion tax. Their app is somewhat
           | better, but they have no website whatsoever, AFAIK. But, at
           | least, they allow me to set up a proper password instead of
           | clicking on 6 digits as the other bank.
        
           | jbstack wrote:
           | Is the UI really that important though? I assume most people
           | use internet/app banking mainly to do two things: make
           | payments, and look at transactions. I also assume most people
           | don't do these things very often. Sure, a good UI is nice to
           | have, but it isn't going to affect my life much if it's
           | missing.
        
         | sureglymop wrote:
         | I've used GrapheneOS for years at this point and all my banking
         | apps work fine. It's just definitely worth a try.
         | 
         | I've had a government app not working once and one of the devs
         | actually showed up on the GrapheneOS forums and now it does.
        
         | dwedge wrote:
         | I need my main one for paying friends back and for authorising
         | payments online. Luckily it works without google. The only real
         | app I miss is Uber
        
         | yellowapple wrote:
         | > Do you really need access to banking apps on the go?
         | 
         | Not strictly, no, but it's useful to be able to relatively-
         | quickly check my balances (and possibly shuffle funds around
         | between checking/savings and my credit-union-issued credit
         | card). I could use my credit union's website for that, but it's
         | faster to open the app and scan my thumb.
         | 
         | Thankfully, my credit union's app has no issues with
         | GrapheneOS, aside from needing to enable "exploit protection
         | compatibility mode" to keep it from crashing on startup.
        
         | karlosvomacka wrote:
         | yes. I pay with bank transfer on regular basis. Merchant
         | generates a QR code, I scan it with my banking app and I pay
         | him.
        
         | AJRF wrote:
         | Some info in case someone is on the fence about this, and are
         | living in the UK. I use Monzo, and that works perfectly on
         | GrapheneOS.
         | 
         | If they ever stopped working, I would just CASS to another
         | bank. A bank that has a posture that something like GrapheneOS
         | is too insecure to use their app on is a bit of a red flag.
        
         | wink wrote:
         | Same here - all the German banks I know of the phone app is
         | mostly for 2FA, but you can also use it for banking, if you
         | like.
         | 
         | In my case it's also the 2FA for credit card usage (as I have
         | the visa/mc via my bank), not only bank transfers.
        
         | npodbielski wrote:
         | Some people will suffer some inconvenience for something that
         | they think is worth it and some people will do everything to no
         | do anything because it is too much trouble. Sometimes they are
         | the same people but in regards to different areas. For example
         | I would never grow my own carrots. What for? I can buy them.
         | And my wife would never built self hosted media server. Why
         | spend 5k$ on PC when you can just buy Netflix?
         | 
         | And there is 3 kind of people that do one of the above and go
         | around in real life and online and tries to convince everyone
         | that THE THING that they are doing is THE ONLY, TRUE SOLUTION.
         | Like vegans or cyclists.
         | 
         | In reality none of this is true. If Graphene OS would tomorrow
         | became, magically the only mobile OS in existence they would
         | became next evil tech company in few years. Because power
         | corrupts.
        
           | traxler wrote:
           | I have troubles discerning how this answer connects to my
           | post.
           | 
           | Are you putting me in the third kind of people?
        
         | HunOL wrote:
         | > Do you really need access to banking apps on the go?
         | 
         | Yes, I do.
        
         | mastermage wrote:
         | Sorry but thats a statement thats just willfully ignorant. Yes
         | people need to have access to their financials when under way.
         | That can range for PushTans, CreditCard Confirmations, to
         | checking their budgets, moving something from one account to
         | another, topping up your Prepaid Card. Or just being able to
         | Pay with a Card on your Phone when you forgot your Wallet.
         | 
         | Sure you could say I do not go out and do not need that but
         | realistically this is just how the world works now.
        
           | traxler wrote:
           | I very purposefully added both the "and maybe you legit do"
           | and the fact that I'm a bad case study.
        
             | mastermage wrote:
             | Sorry if i may have formulated this a bit harshly. I may
             | have replied to your comment becaause it was far up and its
             | a common argument. Often made in bad faith.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | But you can do all those things via a browser.
        
             | ranguna wrote:
             | You can pay with a card on your phone? I mean, sure, if you
             | are buying something online. Not with contactless I think
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | You can do all things with a browser and a card, yes.
               | 
               | I'm assuming that most people will carry the card with
               | them anyway.
        
             | subscribed wrote:
             | That's demonstrably false.
             | 
             | You don't get TANs in the browser, can't tap "approve" on
             | the application-only notification, can't pay with the
             | banking app (for those banks which offer it) without the
             | banking app.
             | 
             | ...and willfully ignorant given that some banks are mobile
             | (app) only.
        
           | drnick1 wrote:
           | How about using cash for all of this? This has the added
           | benefit of not enabling tracking by financial institutions in
           | addition to tracking by Google, the phone OEM, and possibly
           | other third parties.
        
         | lawn wrote:
         | In Sweden you use BankID to authenticate to websites and it's
         | almost a requirement nowadays.
         | 
         | Luckily it works well on GrapheneOS though.
        
         | elric wrote:
         | I've never used a banking app on my phone, and I have no desire
         | to. It's the least secure device I own (in spite of running
         | Graphene). It's the most likely device to get lost or stolen.
         | 
         | I currently have accounts with 3 different banks in Belgium.
         | They all offer an app which I ignore. Online banking works just
         | fine, heck, better than fine, it's excellent. One bank uses
         | auth derived from my debit card (which I have to insert into a
         | card reader to sign transactions). The other two use hardware
         | tokens. The hardware token for my business account has a built
         | in camera which scans QR codes displayed by the website. When
         | signing a payment, I scan the code and the token asks "Confirm
         | payment of 123eur to XYZ?".
         | 
         | It's plenty convenient for my needs.
        
           | jbstack wrote:
           | That's fine when you're lucky enough to be able to avoid a
           | banking app, but for many banks its essentially compulsory. I
           | can't login to internet banking without entering a 2FA code
           | from the app. I'm even forced to have my Android settings a
           | certain way, otherwise the app detects that my phone is
           | "insecure" and refuses to run.
        
             | drnick1 wrote:
             | > for many banks its essentially compulsory.
             | 
             | I would look for a new bank.
        
         | dbdr wrote:
         | Based on this resource, it seems there's very extensive testing
         | of banking apps on grapheneOS, and the large majority works.
         | 
         | https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
        
           | lapinot wrote:
           | Indeed, and based non-extensive, one sample approximate
           | average testing, my own bank works like a charm on GOS.
        
         | anal_reactor wrote:
         | > If you can pay by phone you can pay by card and the card has
         | less potentially to weirdly break.
         | 
         | Paying by card in 2026 is akin to sending physical letters.
        
           | traxler wrote:
           | Really? I guess my neck of the woods is more backwater than I
           | thought. While paying by phone is by no means rare, paying by
           | card is very common.
        
         | dachris wrote:
         | I'm considering using a second phone for increased security. As
         | you say, only put banking apps on them, leave it at home.
         | 
         | The larger population is getting pushed towards banking on the
         | phone, and on top of that, many people don't own a PC/Laptop
         | anymore.
        
         | barnabee wrote:
         | In the UK at least, banking apps are how you give people cash
         | when you owe them for dinner, drinks, whatever. It's also
         | needed to authorise online payments. And for travel, location
         | services is often used by the better banks as an alternative to
         | immediately blocking your card every time you go anywhere. Then
         | there are account perks[0] like airport lounges, co-working
         | spaces, exercise classes, etc. that all use the app for access.
         | 
         | It'd be more than just a bit inconvenient to lose all of these
         | things...
         | 
         | Luckily, all of my personal and business banking apps work fine
         | on Graphene. Even the apps for the crusty old "bricks and
         | mortar" banks that I still have backup accounts with.
         | 
         | [0] As an aside, Revolut Ultra in the UK costs less than the FT
         | Digital subscription it includes so if you're an FT subscriber,
         | all the other stuff that comes with the account is cheaper than
         | free.
        
           | drnick1 wrote:
           | > And for travel, location services is often used by the
           | better banks as an alternative to immediately blocking your
           | card every time you go anywhere.
           | 
           | I routinely use my (U.S.) credit card abroad and never had
           | issues. I don't have any banking app on my phone, which runs
           | Graphene, because I do not need access to banking on the go.
           | Things such as airport lounges, co-working spaces, exercise
           | classes, may be valuable, but none of these things is more
           | important than my freedom. I do not tolerate the thought that
           | some company may track which services I use and where I go
           | without my consent. I therefore do not use proprietary apps
           | on my phone. If something does not work in the browser
           | (Vanadium), I will do without it.
        
         | slumberlust wrote:
         | USAA works. They detect there is not attestation and warn you,
         | but give you the option to continue.
        
       | barcodehorse wrote:
       | I run a degoogled Samsung, keep all my banking apps in a work
       | profile. Ive been seeing a lot of people have issues with
       | Graphene and banking apps, but wouldn't the work profile function
       | on there too? Could you install the Google Play Services on the
       | work profile and run it separately to your main phone?
        
         | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
         | I personally would not put work profile on a phone intended for
         | privacy. In other words, you likely can, but the question
         | quickly becomes: why would you want to? It undermines its
         | purpose.
        
         | ibotty wrote:
         | The problem is the device attestation. See
         | https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
         | for details.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | I am coming to GrapheneOS from iOS, as recounted in
       | https://blog.majid.info/quit-apple/
       | 
       | My experience with seedvault is not as positive as the OP, it
       | fails for about half my apps. I guess I have another year to fix
       | this when the GrapheneOS enabled Motorola flagship comes out.
       | 
       | I carry both my iPhone 16 Plus and my Pixel 8 Pro, but limit my
       | iPhone use to mobile banking, Apple Pay and Find My.
        
         | subscribed wrote:
         | Seedvault is godawful and I'm saying it as a someone using GOS
         | as a daily driver. Utterly awful.
         | 
         | Two backup runs can give different results (failing in
         | different places or failing to restore everything), and I
         | haven't heard of the one person it works for every time.
         | 
         | I wish I could just run Titanium Backup :(
        
       | dahateb wrote:
       | I have been using GrapheneOS now for 8 month and its been quite a
       | smooth ride. The biggest worry I had was flashing it onto a brand
       | new Pixel phone I had just bought. Everything else works fine
       | though. Currently using 3 (german) banking apps and I haven't had
       | a single issue. Also still using Google apps like camera and
       | maps. Also Gboard as the default GrapheneOS keyboard is a bit
       | uncomfortable. Really nice that you can just remove the network
       | permissions and it works like a charm
        
       | akimbostrawman wrote:
       | GrapheneOS OOTB experience and feature set make any other phone
       | feel cheap even iphones.
       | 
       | 0 ads, 0 bloat, 0 unknown connections with maximum security.
        
       | milan777love wrote:
       | I wanted GrapheneOS to deliver on its promises so bad, it sounds
       | so good on paper. And I should be the ideal user, a technical guy
       | whose quality of life is directly impacted by a lack of
       | privacy/security, highly motivated to use it correctly. But the
       | reality is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Just
       | leave your phone at home, this is a toy for privacy enthusiasts.
       | A well intentioned but fruitless hobby.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | You made an account just to attack GrapheneOS without even
         | providing any arguments why it is supposedly a toy?
        
           | milan777love wrote:
           | I used it for a few months after buying a Nitrophone but it
           | was pwned with the same ease as regular Android, in days. So
           | I just use it as a regular Pixel 8a now. Wish I went for
           | Qubes instead maybe then I would've had more luck.
        
       | haskman wrote:
       | PSA: For folks looking for a swipe enabled keyboard on GrapheneOS
       | without using Google's gboard, try Heliboard -
       | https://f-droid.org/packages/helium314.keyboard/. It's 100% FOSS,
       | but can also use the binary blob from google's gesture typing
       | library "swypelibs" to provide swipe typing. Since helium can't
       | access the internet, I am okay with that.
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | How does this compare to FlorisBoard?
        
           | haskman wrote:
           | Florisboard does not have swipe gesture typing which is
           | basically a deal breaker for me
        
         | r0l1 wrote:
         | Also try the Urik Keyboard APP from f-droid
        
         | backscratches wrote:
         | I think they recently finished reimplementing the swipe library
         | so now it no longer requires blobs.
        
         | yepguy wrote:
         | There's also FUTO Keyboard (https://keyboard.futo.org/).
         | Nothing against Heliboard (I actually don't even remember why I
         | chose it over Heliboard). Just another good option.
        
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