[HN Gopher] How to talk to anyone and why you should
___________________________________________________________________
How to talk to anyone and why you should
Author : Looky1173
Score : 522 points
Date : 2026-03-02 07:30 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| general_reveal wrote:
| I find the community on Clubhouse understand this better than
| anyone (well, this is true for Reddit and HN too). Clubhouse
| especially though because people are bat shit crazy on there and
| somehow conversations happen. It's a hidden gem that I think the
| HN community would enjoy.
| chatmasta wrote:
| Clubhouse is still around?!
| dewey wrote:
| That the copyright notice on their site still says "2025"
| probably says a lot. I was kinda expecting to find an AI
| pivot when I opened that landing page.
| general_reveal wrote:
| For what it's worth, they are _living_ a AI pivot. TOS just
| changed so they keep transcripts of all voice and actually
| pop it into an LLM to subjectively determine your karma
| points. They are absolutely selling audio data for fine
| tuning purposes imho, and they are absolutely training on
| all audio. It's a AI shovel selling company for sure.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| And people wonder why others say we are living in a "low
| trust society". You can only read a story like this so
| many times before you decide to simply opt out of
| society.
| basilikum wrote:
| Don't let tech companies set your view of people in
| general.
| general_reveal wrote:
| Yes, it's niche like Slashdot it seems. Good fun, might be
| worth making an HN room.
| mannycalavera42 wrote:
| you cannot sign up without sharing your contact list (lol)
| general_reveal wrote:
| It's a dark pattern. You have to check the box and then
| click "Don't allow". You do not need to share contact or
| real name or anything.
|
| It's a good app, I'm not saying the people that run it are
| good lol.
| aghuang wrote:
| I haven't heard of Clubhouse being mentioned in a long time.
| Last time I checked, it didn't gain traction after 2021 and
| never heard of the app being mentioned since then.
|
| Are there people still using the app? If so how are they making
| money?
| 5o1ecist wrote:
| Interesting. Not the content itself, but the intention behind it:
| Improvement of social cohesion.
|
| Hmmmm.
|
| People are compartmentalized into groups hating on each other.
| They're afraid of committing wrong-think and getting labelled,
| branded, attacked. They prioritize people who aren't there
| (online people, like you and myself) over those who are.
|
| It's especially interesting from my perspective, because in
| Vienna we _still_ have some sort of KaffeeHaus-Kultur.
| CoffeeHouse culture. You can sit there for hours, reading your
| book, with a coffee and it does not matter, unless the space is
| really needed.
|
| It's very common to just chat with whoever runs the place at that
| moment, too. A sense of familiarity is part of the job. For
| regulars, like myself, the coffee house turns into a second
| living room:
|
| We people there started talking to each other.
|
| When I was a teenager, many years ago, I had a coffeehouse for
| table-soccer. It wasn't a club, or association. It was a
| coffeehouse with table soccer, with gatherings of players.
|
| ...
|
| I guess my tangent meant to point at the need for both general,
| or specialized, "social hubs", where regularly appearing people
| silently agree to, eventually, getting talked to.
|
| Not like a club. Clubs are too much commitment, causing
| resistance.
| XorNot wrote:
| You can't simplify it to "people want to hate each other".
|
| The topical issues of today causing strife are not reconcilable
| when the division is "these are the people we're going to
| hate".
| mannycalavera42 wrote:
| a table-soccer coffeehouse, now I know what I want to do in
| life :)
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >I guess my tangent meant to point at the need for both
| general, or specialized, "social hubs", where regularly
| appearing people silently agree to, eventually, getting talked
| to.
|
| Those are called "3rd places". Those have sadly been on the
| decline for the past 30 years.
|
| It's easy to point to phones as the problem, but few can point
| to proper solutions. Because they don't exist in the same way
| the previous generations had it.
| SeriousM wrote:
| First I was happy to see someone from Vienna but then I noticed
| hat you're a bot. HN isn't the same anymore...
| danielodievich wrote:
| My recently deceased mother had a talent for talking to anyone at
| any time in any language. She's always been incredibly social and
| could establish connections with strangers very rapidly. One time
| she brought in a school teacher/sheep farmer from Dagestan
| selling yarn from his sheep's wool, she met him at the market and
| bought all yarn and asked if he had somewhere to stay before
| going back, and he didn't. He stayed in our house for a couple of
| nights, and then we visited him in that little village in
| mountains of Dagestan on a summer vacation, talk about going back
| a few centuries in time, an incredible and unusual experience.
|
| I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email
| account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify
| people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her
| memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
|
| It served her very well in her chosen career of real estate
| sales, although I think she'd might have done really well in
| community organizing or even politics where those skills are also
| very useful.
|
| On the flip side, it was sometimes difficult to be there as
| family wanting some attention, since her bright light was always
| shining in many directions.
|
| I've inherited just some of that talent, and I think it is a
| talent, but trainable.
|
| I miss her already.
| SequoiaHope wrote:
| Beautiful story, thank you for sharing.
| B-Con wrote:
| > I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email
| account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify
| people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses.
| Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
|
| I love this story, because I had the same experience. When my
| dad passed, I had the same 500 email limitation, and had to
| send out multiple waves of emails through Gmail. He was loved
| by so many people!
| mptest wrote:
| I'm sorry for your loss. Beautiful memorial and portrait you
| painted though. Thank you for sharing.
| cal_dent wrote:
| Love this. What a rich and fulfilling life that kind of
| attitude gives
| haritha-j wrote:
| I'm sorry for your loss. It sounds like she was a beautiful
| person, the kind I aspire to be.
| p0pularopinion wrote:
| Condolences for loosing your mother.
|
| It is fascinating to be around such social people. I still
| remember my great-uncle as a kid. He lived a very simple live
| as a rural farmer in Germany. He did not have a wife, and he
| didn't have kids, but he had a deep tie to his family and
| everyone around him. When he passed away during my teens, there
| were hundreds of people attending his funeral. I was amazed by
| the impact he must have had on all their lives given they've
| taken time out of their day to give him a last farewell.
|
| I also notice the generational gap the author of this article
| highlights. My parents are in their 50s, my brother and I are
| in our mid 20s.
|
| My parents still have their friends from school, from their
| apprenticeships and different times of their lives. We can't go
| anywhere in a 100km radius without my dad knowing someone. In
| school I literally had bus drivers ask me if I am <dad's name>
| son, not because they heard my name, but because we look so
| much alike.
|
| When looking into my brothers and my life, most of our friends
| from school left for far away. Things my parents considered
| normal back in their days, are now considered weird. While my
| parents still experience an incredibly supportive circle of
| friends, I would not know who to invite to my hypothetical
| wedding tomorrow.
|
| Granted, I may be an extreme example. But even when looking
| more generalized among my peers, most of the friendships we
| have seem to be significantly more superficial and also fewer
| than our parents.
| SequoiaHope wrote:
| After a bad breakup in 2015, I followed some advice from the
| socialskills subreddit to "talk to everyone" so that you get
| better at talking to women you might want to date. The advice was
| not to only talk to attractive people but everyone. The old man
| reading a Russian newspaper, the kid on bike doing tricks, people
| in the elevator.
|
| I do that now and it brings me a lot of joy. Recently while
| leaving a botanical garden I spoke to a man who was excitedly
| looking for a few specific plants. He is a botanist (amateur?
| professional? unclear) and I enjoyed sharing in his passion for a
| moment. Then I saw a maintenance guy moving with great intention
| who took a moment to ask me and my family if we had a nice time.
| We did, and I asked him about the papers in his hand. "Gotta get
| approval for this purchase request asap." He said. We talked a
| bit about how nice it is to work at such a beautiful place.
|
| I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go
| out and try it.
| treetalker wrote:
| This is great. Thanks, and cheers.
| r17n wrote:
| I love this. I know I struggle with "I don't want to bother
| this person".
|
| How do you deal with that?
| mindwok wrote:
| Would you be bothered if a stranger struck up a nice
| conversation with you? Most people like it! And even if they
| don't, that's ok, trust people to tell you their boundaries
| and respect them when they do. Nothing wrong with bothering
| someone if they tell you or send a strong signal and you
| respect it.
| dmd wrote:
| See my answer to that question is "er, yes, obviously??!"
| and so I assume, apparently incorrectly, that everyone is
| like me.
| jibal wrote:
| If it's obvious to you that everyone should be bothered
| by people being friendly then there's an error in your
| reasoning process.
| dmd wrote:
| I'm guessing you're either from the midwest US, or not
| from the US. Am I right?
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I'm from the US and not the Midwest. Not rural either. If
| I'm clearly doing something it might bother me, otherwise
| I would find it nice to meet someone new. I have mild asd
| and large gatherings cause anxiety, but if I'm just
| sitting people watching or on a stroll, talking to one or
| two people wouldn't bother or stress me.
| jibal wrote:
| I probably shouldn't even legitimize this absurdity by
| responding to it, but no. And if the answer were yes,
| that would not validate the fallacious reasoning
| processes leading to this guess. Here's a hint: reread my
| comment, focusing on the words "obvious" and "everyone".
|
| I won't comment further.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| Good point, maybe things would be more friendly if the
| prevailing reasoning were not as isolating.
|
| I think the default is sociability too, but for reasons
| it does seem to be on the retreat.
|
| > Would you be bothered
|
| >basically anywhere there are other people,
|
| Seems like a perfectly legitimate prerogative to me
| anyway. Actually more "popular" than ever from some of
| the comments.
|
| >They just can't understand that people wouldn't want to
| talk to them.
|
| This however does not follow completely logically.
|
| More like "They just can't realize that of all the people
| who _would_ want to talk to them, you aren 't one of
| them."
|
| No harm done regardless.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Different experiences. Few people are friendly for
| frienliness' sake. The first step is to get your guard
| down.
| jibal wrote:
| I said "obvious" and "everyone". I think your level of
| paranoia is irrational, but in addition it's not required
| of everyone with those different experiences.
| grayhatter wrote:
| I have a hard time imagining this. What kind of scenario
| are you imagining?
| frumplestlatz wrote:
| Yes, 100%. I don't want to have a surface-level
| conversation with a stranger.
|
| I'm also never going to be rude about it -- unless you are
| first. Just pick up on the obvious hints that I'm not super
| into talking.
| mhurron wrote:
| > Would you be bothered if a stranger struck up a nice
| conversation with you?
|
| Yes. If I am basically anywhere there are other people, I
| am there for a specific reason, and anyone trying to talk
| to me for anything else is bothering me. I've found that
| most people that try to start conversations with strangers
| are really poor at reading signals that their actions are
| unwanted and they only stop when you say something so out
| of their comfort zone they have no idea how to handle it.
| They just can't understand that people wouldn't want to
| talk to them.
|
| And after this article and thread, we can add I don't want
| to be your practice dummy to the reasons you're bothering
| me.
| etbebl wrote:
| The example in the article is a waiting room. Or you
| could be waiting to catch the subway, or in line at the
| grocery store. In those situations how is somebody trying
| to talk to you preventing you from completing your task?
| Otherwise you're probably just scrolling your phone;
| sometimes I fill these gaps with things like podcasts,
| but even then it's not like what I'm doing is urgent.
| frumplestlatz wrote:
| I prefer to be left alone with my thoughts.
| mhurron wrote:
| I am wherever for a reason, and that reason is not to be
| social. I am thinking about what I am doing next, what I
| need to bring up in whatever thing I'm waiting for, or
| quite frankly any number of things. You are interrupting
| me. You'd probably get it if we changed things up and
| instead of standing in line, we said you were staring out
| the window while sitting at your desk. You're clearly
| doing nothing right and talking to you isn't interrupting
| what your task is because your task is just typing code,
| and we did just say you're not doing that.
|
| You are bothering me trying to talk to me when I am out,
| because I am only out to do things specifically. Just
| because I am currently doing something (waiting) that you
| deem unimportant or an indicator I am free does not make
| it so.
| doubled112 wrote:
| If they seem uninterested in talking, tell them to have a
| nice day, then carry on with yours.
| gabaix wrote:
| Learn the social cues. People won't say when they are busy.
| They might not ask you questions back, or keep doing what
| they do.
| gyomu wrote:
| As the article says, you just take the risk. Maybe you will
| bother the person. It's okay, you'll be able to quickly tell
| if you do, and you just gracefully back away and go on with
| your day. It'll probably happen much less than you think.
| wanderingstan wrote:
| I concur. And would just add two points: (1) Make it that
| you're not asking for anything / don't open with something
| that could be perceived as a setup to asking for money, or
| pushing a religion. :) 2) be sensitive to social cues or
| that they want to be left alone, like terse answers or
| shifting their attention away from you
| mastersummoner wrote:
| This actually jives with my personal experience living in
| NYC.
|
| New Yorkers have a reputation for being stone cold with
| strangers, but the truth is that anytime somebody
| approaches you out of the blue, there's an assumption
| that they're about to ask for money or try to get in your
| pants. Once you demonstrate you're not looking for either
| (or, if the second I suppose, that you're at least smooth
| enough for it not to be immediately evident), people are
| generally really kind. With some exceptions, I've usually
| found that the coldest looking person will stop to give a
| lost tourist directions if it's clear they're in need.
| wolvoleo wrote:
| Yeah NYC is the one place in America I'd love to visit.
|
| But unfortunately it's in America so I'm not going there
| until you have some sane leaders again :(
| smelendez wrote:
| I've found it can be helpful to shift your own attention
| after someone answers you, but not to a phone (which just
| makes you look like you're communicating with someone
| else).
|
| Look at a flyer on the wall, or your beverage if you're
| in a bar, and they'll follow up if they want to talk and
| appreciate the reduced pressure either way.
|
| And yeah, never open a conversation with something like
| "can I ask you a question?" which is usually a trick of a
| salesperson or beggar to make you acknowledge them and
| start saying yes.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| When the risk can involve lasting consequences (especially
| in places like work/school), it makes me not want to
| bother.
| Swizec wrote:
| The risk does not involve lasting consequences. Just
| don't make things a big deal and people will mostly
| follow your lead.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Lasting consequences include social outcasting and even
| dismissal. Those are pretty lasting.
|
| >Just don't make things a big deal
|
| That sadly doesn't stop the runmors from flowing. That's
| the real damning thing about such social faux pas. Your
| reputation can be ruined without having a single person
| say it to your face. That's both unsettling and morbid
| for how you look to humanity.
| Swizec wrote:
| You have to mess up pretty badly for this to happen. Most
| people would be a lot less worried what others think of
| them if they realized how rarely the do.
|
| The reality is that most people are too busy thinking
| about themselves to spend any time thinking about you or
| a random little interaction that didn't land
| matwood wrote:
| > The reality is that most people are too busy thinking
| about themselves to spend any time thinking about you
|
| I was fortunate to come to this realization in my 20s and
| wish I had realized it so much sooner. The vast majority
| of people are only thinking about themselves the vast
| majority of the time. This means the anxiousness we feel
| about what we think other people think about us is mostly
| made up in our heads.
| wussboy wrote:
| If you're not talking to anyone, you're already a social
| outcast. In my mind the risk of saying something wrong is
| much less than the risk of being omitted through
| inaction.
| matwood wrote:
| I'm trying to figure out in what situation asking someone
| a general question like 'how is your day going?' going to
| have lasting negative consequences.
| beached_whale wrote:
| I think that it comes down to that people often like to talk
| about their interests but worry that the recipient may not
| be. So we end up with two people who want to talk but worried
| about the others feelings.
| hluska wrote:
| These are called questions. They're great. Hell, if you
| want to be regarded as a great conversationalist and great
| storyteller, all you have to do is ask questions.
| paulpauper wrote:
| Then just disengage the conversation when this happens
| karpovv-boris wrote:
| For me that clicked we are all just kids. Your parents are
| struggling with some problems in everyday life as you are.
| Your teachers sometimes might say they don't know the answer
| to your question in their field which is alright. (Parents
| and teachers are two figures who we look up to.) My point is
| that if you're thinking, "they have much more experience and
| I don't, so no need to bother them.." you're wrong.
| Basically, they could have more things, but about same lot of
| problems in the life as you. After that, just start asking
| simple questions.
| thegreatpeter wrote:
| Just practice. You will inevitably run into ppl that don't
| want to talk. Don't take it personally, don't push it and try
| again
| baxtr wrote:
| Do you get bothered when someone talks to you in a nice
| fashion?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Not the guy you asked, but my answer is: only if they are
| panhandling. Otherwise I usually feel a little surprised
| that someone would have any interest in my thoughts. So I
| feel a bit tickled if they have genuine interest.
| leonflexo wrote:
| If the answer is, "of course not". Pull that thread.
| Honestly, so much "therapy" for some of us boils down to
| confronting/examining that disconnect and exploring why it
| exists/how it came to be.
| baxtr wrote:
| Thanks for completing my comment :)
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| Yes
| baxtr wrote:
| Interesting. How come?
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| Because I'm busy inside of my own head and they
| interrupted my flow.
| baxtr wrote:
| Fair enough! It's definitely annoying to be forced out of
| your context
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| I genuinely get bothered when someone talks to me. I am
| typically rushing through my day to do stuff, whether it is
| hiking, grocery shopping, working out, or going to the
| restroom at work, and getting interrupted feels to me like
| getting an unwanted push notification on your phone.
|
| When someone occasionally engages, I extremely quickly
| dismiss them in the most polite, but firm, way possible. I
| also intentionally keep a demeanor that generally signals
| I'm not open to random conversations (I avoid eye contact
| etc.), but that often doesn't work. At the gym it is
| particularly problematic, I'm focusing on gathering
| strength for my next set and sometimes people bother you
| even if I am wearing headphones.
|
| I truly do not have a problem with who I am, I'm
| comfortable in my shoes.
|
| As such, never in a million years I would approach a
| stranger to strike up a conversation, it would seem an
| incredibly rude thing to do towards them, on top of clearly
| not having any desire to engage from my side.
|
| I'll talk for hours straight to my wife, close family and
| the very few friends I have though!
| cdrini wrote:
| > I extremely quickly dismiss them in the most polite,
| but firm, way possible.
|
| And I think that's the answer; people who don't want to
| talk will simply tell you! And everyone carries on.
| jibal wrote:
| But they said it's rude just to speak to them ... which
| is a factually erroneous characterization.
| setsewerd wrote:
| Fascinating how much this varies by culture too. People
| generally have attitudes similar to you in Nordic
| countries, or even Seattle, but then you go to South
| American countries, or India, and it feels like everyone
| talks to everyone all the time.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I have found people in Seattle are very friendly and
| ready to talk. Maybe not on a morning commute, but in
| general.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Danes are, according to the internet, in the "don't talk
| to me ever" group, but I don't think that true. Mostly I
| believe that's because the areas of the internet where
| people talk about the glory of self-checkout and the
| benefits of wearing big ass head phones are a little
| self-selective in their view of the world.
|
| Obviously you should not bother people, but even in
| random encounters many people absolutely loves to talk.
| In many you can see their eyes light up if you talk to
| them of ask them a question. The internet has us so
| conditioned to believing that people just want to be left
| alone that we miss out on a ton of wonderful human
| interaction.
|
| We honestly can't keep both talking about a loneliness
| epidemic and at the same time push the narrative "don't
| talk to me ever". We should absolutely respect e.g.
| people on the autism spectre or anxiety and their issues
| with talking to strangers, but I feel like we're allowing
| them to dictate a mode of interaction, or avoidance
| thereof, which isn't healthy for the rest of us.
| jibal wrote:
| > it would seem an incredibly rude thing to do
|
| It's one thing to not want it and to be comfortable not
| wanting it, but viewing it as rude goes way beyond that
| and is not rational.
| Telaneo wrote:
| The golden rule disagrees.
|
| I am bothered by random people wanting to talk to me ->
| Randomly talking to other people would bother them ->
| Bothering people is rude -> Randomly talking to people is
| rude.
|
| Hence why the platinum rule is better. Once you know that
| other people (apparently!) aren't bothered by randomly
| striking up a conversation, you can adjust your actions
| accordingly.
| jibal wrote:
| > The golden rule disagrees.
|
| No, that rule does not say "it is rude for others to do
| unto you differently from how you would do unto them"--
| it's about how _you_ should behave toward others, not a
| justification for your negative judgment of how others
| behave toward you.
|
| I agree that the platinum rule is better, but _that_
| difference is not the problem here.
| Telaneo wrote:
| I don't judge them negatively. They're working based on
| the available information. That line of reasoning is the
| exact same that I would use if it weren't for the fact
| that I have better information available and thus can
| apply the platinum rule. I don't enjoy random
| conversations, and would consider it rude to engage in
| them if it weren't for the fact people seem to enjoy
| them. Since they do, I try to engage in them when people
| try to strike one up.
|
| If I didn't have that information (and people used the
| golden rule consistently and weren't just knobheads),
| then I would be consistently annoyed at people not
| following the golden rule. As long as my theory of mind
| doesn't include 'other people generally enjoy random
| conversations', my perception would be that the golden
| rule is consistently broken by people striking up random
| conversations.
| mh2266 wrote:
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/introvert
| lkbm wrote:
| Introvert does not mean "doesn't like talking to people".
| 7bit wrote:
| I do. Unless you're an attractive women, just leave me
| alone.
| jcattle wrote:
| Hahaha, oh boy.
| hluska wrote:
| My grandpa had a gift for people - the man could start a
| conversation with anyone, form fast friends and remember
| their spouse's middle name in twenty years.
|
| As he put it, it's a coin toss. Maybe you're bothering them
| or maybe they're grateful to have someone to distract them.
| Each is equally true before you start the conversation.
|
| The key is being able to read social cues. If you can, you
| can stop bothering them.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| People here acting like anyone interested in this article
| aren't already struggling to "read social cues".
| Agingcoder wrote:
| You virtually never bother them - worst case they'll turn you
| down.
|
| On the contrary, they're usually very happy to tell you about
| what they do.
| coffeefirst wrote:
| I got a puppy. Then everyone wanted to talk to my puppy.
| resonious wrote:
| Same here but with human children.
| lupire wrote:
| How did you get human children?
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Hospital has plenty. The key is coming in after hours.
| lelanthran wrote:
| Morgue too, for both assertions above.
|
| (okay, that joke was tasteless, but admit it - you
| probably giggled before you remembered to be horrified)
| damnitbuilds wrote:
| Talking to the right women.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I usually just start with a small harmless joke about the
| current situation we're both in. People either don't respond
| to it, and I leave them alone, or they engage and a
| conversation commences.
| TurdF3rguson wrote:
| Let's hear the joke.
| sethammons wrote:
| Turd Ferguson; that's a funny name
| jcattle wrote:
| All of these have to be told light-hearted, as
| observational "jokes". Not like you are actually annoyed.
| You're just making light of a situation.
|
| "I guess the bus is just never on time here, huh"
|
| (Stuck in line at the grocers) "Friday evening rush-hour"
|
| Same kind of thing with whatever you are observing, at
| the Doctor, in the gym, waiting for the light to turn,
| etc, etc.
|
| It's all shit jokes if you can even call them that. But
| the purpose isn't to start a standup routine, it's to
| share a situation with a stranger and open up the floor
| to conversation. You are basically just indicating to a
| stranger: "Hey, I'm open for conversation", they can then
| choose to respond or just ignore the remark. Then you go
| from there.
| jjkaczor wrote:
| Exactly this - yesterday I was in line at the grocery
| store and the cashier and customer ahead of me were
| complaining about our long, frigid winter (not normal for
| this region) - I joked about how if the long-range
| forecasts were correct we will be up to +18c next
| Saturday and we all laughed about the launch straight
| from winter into "summer". And we all moved on - not
| everything has to be an in-depth conversation.
| lelanthran wrote:
| "Your tax dollars at work"
|
| Applies to almost any situation, really.
| jibal wrote:
| You're not afraid of bothering them, you're afraid of
| rejection. But so what if they do? The fear isn't rational,
| so choose to overcome it.
| grayhatter wrote:
| > "I don't want to bother this person".
|
| > How do you deal with that?
|
| You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want to
| do.
|
| I considered leaving just that pithy reply, because that's
| really it. But some of the extra context; It's not a bother
| to ask someone to hold the door they're already going through
| because your hands are full. Starting a conversation is about
| as intrusive as that. The vast majority of people don't mind
| making some small talk, and ontop of that, the majority can
| make an excuse if they don't have time. You only assume they
| can't politely decline, because you can't. Once you learn to
| say no thanks, politely, but explicitly and directly. You'll
| actually understand and expect others to return the favor.
|
| That's a much more fair way to interact with people too.
| cal_dent wrote:
| I echo this so much.
|
| I'd add also that learning to hear someone tell you no and
| not taking it to heart and getting on with your life. So
| many people walk through life being afraid of hearing
| someone reply "no" to them, like its some existential
| rejection of them and that stops them from doing many
| things.
|
| I'll make chit chat with anyone, and people who dont want
| to chat with are generally pretty explicit about saying
| they dont want to chat or don't have time, or pretty
| obviously implicit about it by not engaging or looking for
| ways out.
| josephg wrote:
| Yeah this is the way. You _will_ lightly bother some
| people by being talkative. But it's ok. So long as you're
| sensitive to their desire not to talk, you'll be fine.
| Nobody will murder you in the night or kick you out of
| the village.
|
| I live in an apartment (condo). I've been practicing
| making small talk with people in the elevator. The
| conversations aren't all winners. Lots of people are
| closed off or don't want to chat. But no matter. Elevator
| conversations are disposable. And most people are
| genuinely lovely. It's a fun challenge trying to brighten
| the days of strangers.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want
| to do.
|
| I feel that line of thinking can have some very grave
| consequences. My mind is swimming with intrusive thoughts
| half the time.
| 7bit wrote:
| Aren't intrusive thoughts the one that any sane person
| answers with "no"? Why he parks on the bike lane. I want
| to smash his windshield -- NO!
| freediver wrote:
| Most people crave conversation and interaction. Those that
| are busy enough to potentially really be bothered will either
| show that clearly, or tell you so.
| ptero wrote:
| In some age groups/environments, sure; but not in general.
| And if folks crave interaction they want it to be deeper
| than a surface level.
|
| That's not saying you should not try, but learn to
| recognize early signs of folks not being interested and
| don't push it.
| matwood wrote:
| Where do you think deep social interaction starts?
| ptero wrote:
| Wherever it started, it required both sides' willingness
| to go beyond the level of "quite a weather, huh". Without
| which the right approach is a quick and graceful exit. My
| 2c.
| thisislife2 wrote:
| > _" I don't want to bother this person"._
|
| This is a common mistake many make - please don't be a "mind
| reader" and make assumptions. Seek clarification. Treat
| people like adults, and act like adults - you have the right
| to talk to anyone or ask someone for help. They have the
| right to be dismissive towards you or say no for whatever
| personal reason. People have different personalities.
| Sometimes, even nice people people act differently depending
| on the day they had and their moods. The point is, if they
| are strangers, you don't need to attribute any meaning or
| malice to this. However, always be mindful of social
| conventions and cultural practices.
| bluebarbet wrote:
| This will never be me (I find any kind of smalltalk
| excruciating). But I'm so grateful, not to say relieved, that
| there are people like you. Society needs you.
| bogzz wrote:
| "EXCUSE ME, SIR! I see you are moving with great intention.
| Might your hurriedness be in connection with those papers you
| hold in your hand? Pray tell, for I much desire to converse!
| Aah, I see, I was right to assume you were in a hurry. Anyway,
| it must be wonderful to be working at a place as beautiful as
| this, is it not? Hah ha ha yees, isn't it wonderful. Well,
| alright then be on your way if you must."
|
| Sorry but I couldn't help imagining you as the fake health
| inspector from Fawlty Towers while reading your comment.
|
| I do agree with you though, talking is great, we are social
| animals even though modern life allows us to forget this, to
| our own detriment.
| phatskat wrote:
| When I was staying with my older brothers, one of their
| magazines was along the lines of maybe a GQ but in the 90's,
| iirc I was probably in middle school, and probably reading
| content a bit above my age level in terms of concept.
|
| One of their articles though was about "talking to women" but
| it also emphasized just talking to _anyone_. It had suggestions
| like "if you're out at the bar, just ask to sit with a random
| group, introduce yourself, and have a conversation."
|
| Many years later in college, I did indeed try this at a bar and
| was pleasantly surprised. I didn't make any long term friends,
| or find a new partner, but I did really start honing the skill
| of being social with anyone. It's hard, and especially for me
| and my social anxiety, it has also really helped me feel more
| comfortable in places unfamiliar and people unknown.
| LoganDark wrote:
| It really helps to learn in an environment where failure
| isn't emotionally catastrophic. If you only talk to people
| that are interesting or important to you, then you can end up
| learning the wrong things because failure hits so hard. The
| desperation this can create will further serve to drive
| people away!
|
| People need to feel like it's safe to develop relations with
| you, rather than like you're trying to manipulate them into
| doing so, which is what happens when you learn only from very
| hard failures.
| hiddenpx wrote:
| Wow. I just learned something about myself. Thanks for this
| insight!
| paulpauper wrote:
| _I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go
| out and try it._
|
| I did this a few times and it surprisingly worked. I was able
| to make small talk about an article I was reading. Did it
| matter that I didn't come off with the confidence of Tony
| Robbins? No.
| vedaba wrote:
| Until you run into an A-hole whose response ruins the rest of
| your day when you were just trying to be sociable. I could even
| see getting physically assaulted for trying to talk to the
| wrong stranger. I like where your heart is at, unfortunately
| many people out there are not deserving of it.
| DiskoHexyl wrote:
| The idea of practicing these random interactions is also to
| get accustomed to rejections from the assholes. After all,
| they aren't the majority- most people are actually quite nice
| and often appreciate a company (or will politely tell you
| they don't need one)
| perching_aix wrote:
| This made me reflect on online interactions.
|
| Agreeable comments will draw comparatively fewer replies,
| while disagreeable ones achieve the opposite.
|
| But this then results in a "false experience" for the
| individual, where unlike in real life, the bad exchanges do
| not end up outweighed by the good ones, as you simply don't
| go on to have those. You just upvote and move on (often to
| avoid redundancy).
|
| Maybe if the two were tied together (voting either up /
| down & sending a reply), communities would work healthier?
| I don't know. Not like it's easy to have this tried out.
|
| I could definitely see challenges to this though, the
| aforementioned redundancy being one. I have some
| countermeasure ideas, but then I wonder if that would make
| the UX complicated enough to drive people away instead,
| which is a lose-lose.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| It's not the majority, but one black eye will make you
| rethink everything regardless.
| jmye wrote:
| Man, how many "hey, how are you"s do you think are ending
| in a _black eye_? What ridiculous hyperbole.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Only takes one. Humans are trained to remember the pain
| more than the typical. That's my point.
| jcattle wrote:
| Well, keep going with asking people "how are you" until
| someone gives you a black eye. Then you can stop.
|
| I would assume that before that happens your natural
| death would come first.
| matwood wrote:
| Yeah, some of the responses in this thread I hope are
| just jokes. Asking someone how their day is going is bare
| minimum social behavior that should carry zero risk of
| anything.
| jmye wrote:
| I mean, why does it ruin your day? It's just some random
| person - you'll likely never see them again, or you'll know
| to avoid them in the future. Why is the opinion of some rando
| weighing on you so much?
| rain_iwakura wrote:
| have you had actually negative interactions like that? they
| sting for years, even after hundreds of mild-to-positive
| ones. the brain focuses on risk-minimization and not
| reward-maximization.
| calcifer wrote:
| "The" brain, or just yours? Mine certainly doesn't obsess
| over a bad interaction "even after hundreds of mild-to-
| positive ones."
| abelitoo wrote:
| It depends, which is really funny.
|
| My brain on a Monday in a crap mood driving on the
| highway: that jerk that just cut me off has ruined my
| entire day.
|
| My brain on Friday after good sleep and a relaxing
| morning: heh look at the guy, he's definitely in a hurry.
| Hope he gets where he's going, back to my jams!
|
| I try to train myself to remember to be Friday brain, but
| sometimes Monday brain comes out and I'm in a funk that
| makes me forget I actually have a choice about NOT
| reacting a specific way. I like to think I'm getting
| better at consistently not sweating the small stuff and
| just letting those instances go without giving them an
| appreciable amount of mental space better suited to
| relaxing and listening to good music.
| bondarchuk wrote:
| This whole thread is about wanting to talk with strangers
| because it makes you feel good, if approval from strangers
| makes you feel good the natural corollary is rejection from
| strangers can also make you feel bad. It would be bit weird
| to go out of your way to talk to people because you'd enjoy
| their kindness but then when they're unkind turn around all
| like "oh I never cared about you anyway". Isn't it?
| kgwxd wrote:
| It's great as long as they don't turn out to be a creep. And
| that's terrible advice for practicing talking to women. Talking
| to a person you're attracted to, or want anything from in
| general, isn't going to present the same way. No matter how
| much you practice. Attractive women have to deal with that, all
| day, every day. They'll shut it down quickly if they're not
| interested. You'll be the creep if you don't quietly take the
| hint, and walk away, when they're not.
| zerkten wrote:
| I found mixed results given underlying anxiety that hadn't been
| diagnosed at the point I was trying this. Talking to new people
| at work, while out pursuing hobbies, and around town, all
| accrued to more and better conversations.
|
| It was a much bigger struggle with conversations where I was
| putting extra pressure on myself. Being able to have those
| other conversations was helpful though. Eventually, I found a
| therapist and am in a better place with this.
| vector_spaces wrote:
| Letting curiosity be the motivator behind starting these
| conversations and cultivating curiosity more broadly can help
| -- or at least I have found it to be helpful in making
| initiating feel less forced. I wonder about people's jobs or
| the reasons they are visiting a place or what they think
| about what's happening nearby, or just generally who they
| are.
|
| One antipattern I've encountered with this approach tho is
| that sometimes anxious people will exhaust their conversation
| partners with a battery of questions. Even if thoughtful,
| this can sometimes have the effect of exhausting your
| partner, and tends to keep the conversation steered away from
| actual connection. YMMV, but either way be mindful and make
| it a point to share yourself
| socalgal2 wrote:
| An old guy sat at the table next to mine at an outdoor cafe. I
| don't remember what I said to start the conversation but he
| told me he'd lived in Japan for 3yrs in the 50s, married a
| Japanese woman, they moved to Redondo Beach and she convinced
| him to buy a house more than they could afford. He said it was
| the best decision of their lives. He then said she'd past away
| a few years ago and they had no kids.
|
| I ask him what he thought of the population crisis Japan is
| facing. He said said that was bullshit and that 8 billion
| people in the world are way too many.
|
| And that was when I stopped talking to him.
| xyzzy_plugh wrote:
| I mean, I can certainly appreciate this man's perspective
| even if I don't agree with it. The global population has more
| than tripled in his life.
|
| That's a pretty extreme change!
| CapitalistCartr wrote:
| While I don't agree about population either way, in my
| lifetime it's grown from about 3 billion to over 8 billion.
| This has been quite a ride. Also, there's a _world_ of a
| difference between global carrying capacity with responsible
| aliens managing, and our current management.
| stevenhuang wrote:
| Why so quick to moralize? What makes you think your
| perspective on world population is justified and his isn't?
|
| This could have been an opportunity for both of you to
| understand each other's perspective. That's why you asked
| their thoughts on the matter right? It's a shame you let that
| pass you by.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| I asked his thoughts on the matter because I assumed he
| didn't want to see Japan end since he had a connection to
| it. But, he didn't give a fuck if they ended, nor Korea.
|
| And if you think they'y aren't ending, you need to go look
| at the numbers and then look at the double speak on
| solutions. There are no known solutions. Every solution
| requires a miracle that has never happened.
| stevenhuang wrote:
| Thank you for explaining. Could be he's a misanthrope,
| through life experiences or such.
|
| I share the same sentiments as you, it'd be a tragic
| loss. But saying they'd "end" is well, unlikely. The
| countries will shrink. Japan population could reach 60M
| by 2100 if nothing is done. That's still a lot of people
| and by then other factors will dominate and fertility may
| rise again.
|
| Humans are adaptive and a lot can change in half a
| century, so I would not overly index on what projections
| say. Everything would need to stay static for the
| projections to matter, which given the rate of
| technological changes and geopolitical tension, sounds
| likely.
| nimonian wrote:
| > I asked his thoughts on the matter because I assumed
|
| Kindly, I think this is where you went wrong
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| That was rather rude I think, why'd you stop talking to him
| instead of the purpose of communication - learning about
| other people? Killing conversations because of a difference
| of opinion - and one where you didn't even explore the
| reasonings - is why the world is becoming more and more
| polarised.
| yard2010 wrote:
| This is me. I learned to not talk to strangers because 80% of
| the time I just get disappointed. Either I need to reflect my
| disagreement with their (imo) stupid takes or just be
| unauthentic and agree.
|
| Yesterday I got stuck with this kind of stranger for 3 hours
| for work stuff. It was just me and him driving. When he
| started telling racist jokes and expressed his
| dissatisfaction with human rights I thought here we go again
| and went for the unauthentic route. As the conversation
| rolled he became more easy and personal. Told me about his
| family, his immigration and less nice parts of his life. I
| felt compassion and it really feels like we ended up being
| more connected than the beginning.
| matwood wrote:
| Why would you stop talking right as the conversation was
| getting really interesting???
| scopendo wrote:
| It's the demographic distribution of those 8 billion that's
| the problem.
| hippich wrote:
| Please also recognize when others don't really want to talk.
| Not everybody want to go beyond cultural niceties of a smile
| and "hi, how you doing". I don't want to be a jerk, but I also
| don't like to talk to random strangers.
| Loughla wrote:
| To summarize, the suggestion was to live like you live in the
| Midwest outside of urban/suburban areas. That's very funny to
| me.
|
| My spouse had a hard time acclimating to rural Midwest life
| after living in a mega city on the East Coast. She complained
| that everything takes an extra half hour for time spent
| standing around talking about nothing.
|
| It never dawned on me that if you're from a place, like a large
| city, where interacting with strangers or very distant
| acquaintances isn't encouraged, that this would not be a
| natural part of life.
|
| I find this interesting but don't know what to do with that.
| kace91 wrote:
| Yup. I'm super social and extroverted, in the sense that I
| love meeting new people and if I'm introduced to anyone I
| make connections easily. But I can't in a million years be
| the one breaking the ice.
|
| This is in big part due to being born and raised in a large
| European capital. There's unwritten barriers you respect as a
| social rule, and if someone breaks the rule you assume
| they're trying to sell something or scam you. To me talking
| to a stranger unprompted feels as out of place as pulling my
| pants down in public.
|
| It's natural for these barriers to exist to make dense spaces
| liveable, but they do constrain you.
| wolvoleo wrote:
| I used to live in a rural area and I found it so
| claustrophobic. I hate living in a place where I've seen
| everyone's face, know every street and every building. It
| feels so limiting, there's nothing to explore, no magic shops
| or communities to discover.
|
| And also, I really hated the religious mindset with all the
| little rules they have, the hatred for lgbt people, single
| parents, foreigners etc. There were good people too but you
| always had to watch who was around to have a chat. I'm very
| progressive and atheist. And very alternative.
|
| My ex who was from this community even got in trouble with
| some parents because she told the kids she was minding that
| dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Apparently it's normal
| to deny all the progress we have made as a society.
|
| I just couldn't deal with it, it just made me so depressed.
| And this wasn't even in the US but just in Europe.
|
| In the city it's much easier to find open-minded people. And
| the ones who aren't don't control public life. I don't ever
| want to live in a rural area again after that (though in
| fairness I do have some ptsd from it).
| circlefavshape wrote:
| I live in a rural area (not in the US though). Everyone
| knows I'm a weirdo, and almost all of them are cool with
| it. This is how people lose their prejudices - they meet a
| foreigner, or a single mother, or a gay person, and they
| discover that they like them
| wolvoleo wrote:
| I don't think that happens really.
|
| I was a foreigner in that country too and there's been so
| many times that people were bitching about foreigners
| with me present, only to realise and go like 'present
| company excepted of course' as if that makes it ok.
|
| In my experience it just made me the exception to their
| prejudices but did nothing to actually remove them.
|
| And I was not in the US either by the way.
| ajb wrote:
| That's like that scene from Crocodile Dundee - for those that
| don't know the movie, the guy is from some tiny town way out
| in the sticks in Australia, and visits NY. In the scene I'm
| thinking of, Dundee walks down a street in NY following his
| usual habit of greeting everyone, which is difficult as they
| don't expect it and there are too many anyway.
| miroljub wrote:
| This advice is not for everyone.
|
| Obviously this works only if you are an extrovert. Introverts
| would find this kind of interaction a wasteful use of limited
| social energy available to them.
| Craighead wrote:
| This advice is not for everyone.
|
| Categorizing yourself in a way that may purposefully stunt
| your growth and reduce opportunity for growth is a wasteful
| use of life.
| miroljub wrote:
| That's something an extrovert would say :)
|
| Strong words. I'd like to understand your choice of words
| here.
|
| > Categorizing yourself
|
| Also known as knowing yourself, your strengths, and your
| weaknesses.
|
| > purposefully stunt your growth
|
| A wild assumption that talking to everyone will magically
| let you grow. Some people just prefer to focus on people
| that matter to them.
|
| > ... reduce opportunity for growth
|
| By choosing to compete in an area that is your weakness,
| you already limited your growth potential.
|
| > ... wasteful use of life
|
| So refusing to talk to everyone is a wasteful use of life.
| Again, I find it more wasteful to talk to anyone instead of
| people who matter to me. Unless it's fun, of course.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Categorising / knowing yourself is important for sure - I
| think in the case of the extrovert/introvert thing, it's
| an important first step to helping yourself, because in
| my experience/anecdotally, a lot of introverts know
| they're different from others, yet feel insecure or
| anxious about it. Awareness and acceptance won't make you
| "not an introvert" suddenly, but it can help recover from
| the awkwardness, self-doubt and anxiety. Still
| anecdotally, me and some other people who (10, 15 years
| ago or so) learned about introversion found more peace
| with themselves, that it's OK to want to be home, and
| that they learn to say "no" or "you know something, I've
| had enough and am going home".
|
| Learning about who you are helps you know your limits and
| boundaries, which means you can learn to do more within
| your comfort zone and how far you can stretch it, which
| means your comfort zone expands and you can do more.
| That's the kind of growth I think comes with categorising
| oneself.
| miroljub wrote:
| Excellent points.
|
| Knowing who you are and what your boundaries are is
| important. Being an introvert is not a weakness, as much
| as being an extrovert is not a strength. It's only that
| extroverts are louder and more assertive, and that way
| they convinced the majority of people in between that
| everyone should be an extrovert.
| ajb wrote:
| There's a certain amount of evidence that getting over
| anxiety is harder if you try to do it by doing the thing
| you are most anxious about.
|
| An alternative is to do things which allow you to become
| more comfortable with a reasonable degree of personal
| risk. Which can include things like rock climbing which
| you do on your own.
| papyrus9244 wrote:
| I think it absolutely is for everyone, especially for
| introverts. It's a muscle, go train it. Source: me.
| miroljub wrote:
| You can train it. You can even be good at it. But if you
| don't enjoy it, should you really be doing it?
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Yes, because it's important. And also figure out why you
| don't enjoy it, and whether that's a self-reinforcing
| thing. At the very least you can make it something
| neutral instead of something you actively dislike and
| avoid.
| miroljub wrote:
| But why? If I don't enjoy talking to anyone and everyone,
| why should I be doing it? What's wrong with focusing on
| people who matter to me?
|
| It's not like I don't give people a chance, but I'm
| pretty quick in identifying and cutting off people who
| are draining my energy, even if they are otherwise quite
| nice and enjoyable company for others.
| KronisLV wrote:
| > If I don't enjoy talking to anyone and everyone, why
| should I be doing it?
|
| There's probably something to be said about this world
| being largely built for extroverts and needing to be able
| to be at least somewhat like that to succeed. Sometimes
| good opportunities are just a matter of showing up and
| being sociable, and being good at it.
|
| If you're gonna have to do it, might as well get better
| at it and get at least somewhat used/desensitized to it.
| A part of it is also about picking up on social cues,
| making others comfortable around you and establishing
| relationships - like those anecdotes about someone who
| has a really good CV not being able to compete to someone
| who knows someone at the company, but obviously not just
| in the professional world.
|
| I don't necessarily like that it's the way it is and have
| missed out on A LOT of opportunities due to being quite
| introverted but oh well.
| temp8830 wrote:
| Or us introverts just slowly die out simply by being
| absent from the gene pool. However, judging by the
| article - we seem to be winning. Somehow.
| callmeal wrote:
| Yes. It's like exercise. Or eating healthy. I don't enjoy
| working out but I should really be doing it. I really
| enjoy eating sweets, but I should not be doing that all
| the time.
| hnfong wrote:
| An analogy isn't an answer to "why", it's a literary
| device to make it easier to understand a concept.
|
| Even if talking to people is beneficial (I can accept
| that), you're also shaming people for being introverts.
| Nobody should be faulted for enjoying me-time. It isn't
| even harmful. No, it's not like eating too many sweets.
| patates wrote:
| I have ADHD with terrible social anxiety, and conventional
| treatments only help so much.
|
| I know I can eventually beat it, and I'm so happy for you
| and everyone who beats social anxiety. You are my idols!
|
| That said, I don't like it when someone says "yeah just do
| it, it's possible". It's not possible to just do it. Yeah
| only doing the thing is doing the thing and preparing to do
| it is not doing the thing, I get it. On the other hand, you
| can also jump off a cliff without checking your parachute,
| just saying.
| nvarsj wrote:
| Not sure why you got downvoted with a perfectly valid
| opinion!
|
| I've done what OP describes but I'm heavily introverted and
| likely HSP too. I'm pretty good at it but it's incredibly
| exhausting. My father is exactly the same way.
|
| As I get older, the more I consider self care and
| prioritising my own needs over others to be happy. To that
| end, I much prefer to keep to myself and so I do.
|
| However it doesn't stop me from engaging in impromptu
| conversations. I just don't go out of my way to talk to
| literally everyone.
| miroljub wrote:
| Exactly my point, you just formulated it better than I
| could.
|
| The problem with extroverts is they assume everyone is like
| them. And they are pretty loud and push their opinions on
| others without the ability to listen and reflect. They
| would ignore that you are not like them, and would come up
| with all the arguments about "trying", "limiting growth",
| "training the muscles".
|
| You can't accept that I know what's good for me? You want
| to change me? You think you know me better than I do? Then
| fuck you, I'll just stop talking to you without even
| telling you why.
|
| And that's the exact reason why, in the real world, I just
| stop any communication with them. If they cannot adjust
| their communication so it can be enjoyable to me, I'm not
| going to pretend I enjoy communicating with them.
| malfist wrote:
| Not sure why you're getting downvoted but yes, this is true.
|
| I don't want or need to talk to everyone, and I generally
| don't appreciate people I don't know or won't know in five
| minutes to engage me in idle chatter. Just leave me be.
|
| I'm not a grouch, I'm not a grump, I'll be friendly but why
| do you have to harass me?
|
| I'm perfectly comfortable in my own skin, doing my own thing,
| by myself. I don't have social anxiety, I'm not a
| misanthrope. Just let me be.
|
| Introverts aren't broken. You don't have to impose yourself
| on everyone else.
| jmcqk6 wrote:
| Making global declarations about introverts isn't really
| useful beyond the basics. I'm an introvert and my life has
| gotten noticeably better once I started intentionally talking
| to people more. I still need to have my own time to recharge.
| That hasn't changed. The thing that changed is that I'm not
| longer inhabiting the self-imposed prison of thinking social
| interaction was not for me.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| One of the last strangers I talked to pretended I didn't
| exist:)
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Of course, not everyone wants to talk while in public, and
| not everyone knows how to politely decline a conversation.
| That's also fine, everyone's somewhere on the social
| spectrum(s).
| lukan wrote:
| Don't talk to me though, while I am trying to do focused work
| ...
|
| Or other people who are really busy right now, but in general
| yes, most people enjoy random interactions and talks. And most
| people do have interesting things to share. You have to have
| genuine interest, though. Don't force it - but be open for it.
| Make eye contact first and then you might connect. It is
| astonishing how many grim looking people suddenly start to
| smile and act friendly, if you just start a friendly
| conversation with them. Even if it is just a exchange of a
| simple comments.
| jeffhuys wrote:
| Also talk to you; that's part of learning how to. It prepares
| you for rejection of all sorts.
| autoexec wrote:
| I can't recommend being intentionally rude so that you can
| get practice dealing with people who are pissed off at you.
| Learning how to tell when it's a bad time to strike up a
| conversation with a stranger will be a much greater benefit
| for anyone looking to meet women or even for someone just
| working on being friendlier/more social. There'll be no
| shortage of opportunities to learn how to deal with
| rejection even without being a pest.
| jszymborski wrote:
| > I can't recommend being intentionally rude...
|
| As I understand, GP is recommending that folks take a
| risk that their drumming up a conversation might be
| unwelcome if they are unsure. They're not advocating for
| folks to harass people who are in no position to chat or
| who have stated as much.
|
| People can't read minds, so I think we owe grace to the
| folks around us if they misread a situation and respect
| your wishes when you let them know that it's you're
| unwilling or unable to chat at the moment.
|
| While it's great to learn social cues, it's often
| impossible to know whether someone is in the mood to
| chat.
| ptero wrote:
| I cannot agree with that. Do not be shy about trying, but
| do not be a pest either. There are many times when
| interruptions are not good for both sides. My 2c.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| I used to do this constantly but eventually I found it tedious.
|
| The conversation almost always went smoothly and I got the
| sense my interlocutor was pleasantly surprised to be engaged
| and had a great time chatting.
|
| But for me it became a chore, rather than a joy. It was "work"
| like guiding/teaching somebody. The juice was rarely worth the
| squeeze.
| Panzer04 wrote:
| I suppose you're comfortable with it though. Many people
| aren't comfortable with even the basic step of starting a
| random conversation or asking strangers questions/for help.
|
| You don't need to do it, but everyone should probably be at
| least comfortable/confident striking up conversations with
| people they don't know.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Did people only talk about themselves? It is probably a rare
| trait when someone legitimately cares about other peoples
| inane daily lives.
|
| It would be interesting to actually talk to hundreds of
| people a week for years, you would probably get really good
| at categorizing people and predicting where they are in life
| and what their current concerns are.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| About themselves or about their political/world views,
| which are incredibly repetitive
| jjav wrote:
| > I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely.
| Go out and try it.
|
| Which country are you in?
|
| I'm from a latin country and the norm is that you end up
| chatting about life the universe and everything with any random
| people you share a space with for more than one minute.
|
| But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is
| transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up.
| I've been in the USA for a long time and as an introverted
| person I'm mostly ok with that, but whenever I'm back home I
| realize how much I miss talking to random people.
| arcbyte wrote:
| > But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is
| transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up.
|
| This is regional within the US and obviously differs by
| person even then. Just remember that the people you are
| talking to may be the kind of people that need articles like
| the above to teach them how to talk to people. Their defenses
| go up when someone approaches them and while they are well
| practiced at appearing relaxed, they are not. Conversations
| are short because its emotionally difficult to stay in a
| heightened awareness state while someone is trying to pull
| you out of it. But you can certainly provide offramps
| vasco wrote:
| When I visited New York City (and the US) for the first time
| in like 2010 I was taken a back but how much Americans like
| to chat randomly so this is strange to read.
|
| I remember a random guy was chatting to me in the subway,
| then I got out, waiting at a crosswalk for the green, in
| those 15 seconds another guy starts another random
| conversation. In the first 2 hours of the trip I already had
| maybe 10 random circumstantial conversations. The whole trip
| I felt like if I wanted I could always be talking!
| bspammer wrote:
| This was my experience too. The USA is the only country
| I've ever been to where random strangers will strike up a
| conversation with me completely out of the blue, and I've
| travelled quite a lot.
| wccrawford wrote:
| It's both regional and depends on how you are perceived.
|
| I'm an introvert and I'm always surprised when a stranger
| talks to me, no matter where I am. But I make a point of
| always being pleasant back, no matter how I feel about it
| at the moment.
|
| Sometimes it's just a couple sentences, and sometimes it's
| more of a conversation. It'd probably be more if I was
| better at conversations.
|
| The only exception is if I feel the other person wants
| something from me, or they seem crazy or dangerous. I don't
| engage with those types.
| tunapizza wrote:
| For people whose cultures value reserve and privacy,
| visiting the U.S. is a study in cross-cultural dynamics and
| sometimes a serious test of social boundaries. Your comment
| reflects that. The loudness, friendliness, warmth, and
| (occasional) casual intrusiveness is both a reality and a
| stereotype. It always reminds me of this hilarious Harry &
| Paul (UK) sketch:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGc3zFOFI-s
| zukzuk wrote:
| NYC is very different in that regard from most anywhere
| else in the US. Random people tend to talk to each other.
| There's a vague sense of "we're all in this shit together".
| Maybe it's something to do with living on a cramped island,
| with no choice but to work together.
| eszed wrote:
| Yep. I lived long enough in the UK to thoroughly absorb
| their social dynamic, and the chattiness of strangers was
| my biggest culture shock moving back to the US. (West Coast
| USA, for those of you who think people here rate high on
| the "actually reserved" social scale.) I've been back long
| enough (+decade) to feel comfortable again with this level
| of random social interaction, but my wife, who's from the
| US South - twenty years on the West Coast, now - still
| feels like folks here are socially "cold".
|
| Everyone here should note that The Guardian (I'm old enough
| to remember when it was The _Manchester_ Guardian) is a UK
| newspaper, and adjust your understanding of its advice, or
| its necessity, accordingly.
| robotbikes wrote:
| I think a lot of it has to do with the somewhat complicated
| engagement protocol, if everyone assumes that nobody else
| wants to talk then it's easier to just keep your head down
| and at best nod or even avert eye contact but when someone
| extends a level of conversational courtesy I think people
| often respond in kind. My challenge is that I don't often
| have the impulse to break the ice but when I do and feel
| genuinely outgoing people tend to appreciate the chit chat
| even if it's just about the weather but I also have many
| moments of standing awkwardly in elevators silently ascending
| or walking down the street silently and even feeling awkward
| ordering food. Being able to consistently be outgoing I feel
| would be a net positive but I'm not sure what the trick is to
| just turn it on without it feeling forced.
| bsenftner wrote:
| A lot of seemingly casual interactions in the US turn out to
| be someone trying to sell something. When that happens a 3rd
| time, you start to ignore random chatter from someone that
| seems too friendly. The salesperson tactics abuse common
| social conversation rules, and one ends up feeling like they
| are being forced to be mean and rude to an idiot. So, to
| avoid that, we push away chatty strangers in the United
| States.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| That or someone running some sort of scam or asking for
| money. All on the same continuum I guess. I'm always on my
| guard when a talkative stranger approaches me. Which is sad
| in a way, but experience proves it's necessary.
| erikerikson wrote:
| You may be shaping the samples you collect in a priors
| confirming manner.
| gosub100 wrote:
| I'm in my 42nd year of life and I've never been small
| talked into giving someone money. I have been accosted by
| pan handlers who are directly asking for money. But never
| under the guise of a conversation. Ok, I take it back,
| once in 2011.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| we push away chatty strangers in the United States
|
| Where? I've lived on the coasts, I live in the Midwest,
| that has not been my experience aside from anti-social
| persons.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Tourist areas of large cities are like this. LinkedIn
| connections are like this. Other than that, people are
| delighted when you speak to them for the most part.
|
| If nothing else, the nerves and flashbulb memories
| overwrite old nerves and flashbulb memories.
| toomim wrote:
| It depends strongly on the city, and became more
| pronounced since covid.
|
| Seattle is the worst. They call it the "seattle freeze."
| The San Francisco Bay Area became almost as bad in covid.
|
| The south is still friendly. Austin is incredibly
| friendly with strangers. Miami has strong stranger vibe.
| NYC is still alive, too.
| petercooper wrote:
| It may also depend on where you're from. I'm British,
| have travelled around the US, and never had problem
| engaging in chit chat with all sorts of people, big
| cities or not. But there's a strong disarming
| undercurrent of _" oh wow, you're from England"_ through
| the whole experience that I expect most Americans never
| experience, at least within their own country.
| dml2135 wrote:
| I would not say that this happens "a lot". This is the sort
| of thing that one tells themselves to justify their own
| introversion.
| h2zizzle wrote:
| Change "sales tactics" to "pickup attempt" and I think
| you'll find it a lot harder to dismiss it as a reason -
| not because it's true, but because of how much of a
| headache it is to get on the bad side of people who
| insist it's true. I'm gay (and active), but don't really
| present as such, and it's remarkable how often I receive,
| "I wish this creep would stop hitting on me/generally
| being an unattached male in my presence," vibes. I didn't
| want to believe it myself, until I noticed the markedly
| reduced occurrence when speaking to women who were
| visibly much older than I am. For women my age and
| younger: I'm not interested, but they _think_ I 'm
| interested, and that is a convo killer.
|
| On the guy side, they usually seem too preoccupied to
| talk, or are moving with friends/family where
| interjecting as a stranger would be weird (because you
| either need to address the group or else you seem like
| you're attempting to break them off into a conversation
| away from that group). Though I'll give that the "too
| preoccupied" is sometimes merely an affect hiding, "This
| loser has nothing to offer me."
| temp8830 wrote:
| Does "almost 100% of the time" count as a lot? So far
| almost all chatty strangers I met have been either crazy
| or Amway cultists.
| pousada wrote:
| It's funny, my experience is the exact opposite.
|
| Having grown up in Germany i was surprised how many people
| in the US would strike up a conversation randomly in the
| street with me - I thought it's a normal thing and never
| really experienced it in Germany - there I would always be
| suspicious that people try to scam me or get money or
| something.
|
| I do agree with GP that in Latin America it's super common
| and normal to chat with everyone.
|
| But there are many levels to this - it's for example less
| common in Nordic countries at least in my experience but
| you can speak to people in every place on earth, it's
| something universal.
| brabel wrote:
| I live in a Nordic country. The rule here is to avoid
| social contact at any cost. People waiting for a bus must
| stand at least 2 meters away from each other. Otherwise
| you might be close enough for someone less equipped in
| the local etiquette to mistake you for someone that may
| engage in small talk. When sitting , never sit directly
| next to someone else. Stand if that's not possible and
| try to observe the 2 meter rule. Neighbors learn each
| other time routines to make sure they never have the
| uncomfortable experience of having to cross paths and
| acknowledge the others presence.
| slices wrote:
| Regions in the US dominated by Nordic immigrants have
| similar patterns!
| dmoy wrote:
| Reminds me of
|
| https://youtu.be/oiSzwoJr4-0?t=9m34s
| apelapan wrote:
| I'm on my fifth decade living in the nordics. Strangers
| have conversations at bus stops and neighbours socialize
| by the garbage bins and across the hedges all the time.
|
| Not as much as in some other places in the world, but it
| is not at all rare.
| MDGeist wrote:
| I think it depends on the part of the US. In my experience,
| being from the south, I am used to people engaging in small
| talk with strangers. However, working in the northeast I find
| people to be very transactional until you wear them down over
| an extended period of time haha.
| coldfoundry wrote:
| This was also my observation after growing up in New
| England and then moving to Denver, Colorado. People were
| much more open to conversation than I was previously used
| to which felt like a breath of fresh air. I realized people
| in New England seemingly default to a "defensive"
| interaction mode when conversed with without a pre-shared
| common ground, such as a task or moment. Its quite apparent
| when visiting family back east.
| caseyohara wrote:
| Fellow New England -> Colorado transplant. It was
| pleasantly shocking for me too how much chattier and
| friendlier people are in Colorado. But now I've lived in
| Colorado long enough that when I go back to visit New
| England, it's shocking how cold and taciturn people are
| there. Conversations with strangers rarely get past "How
| ya doin?" "Fine and you? "Fine, thanks."
|
| I do appreciate how direct people in the northeast tend
| to be, and sometimes miss that aspect of the culture.
| morley wrote:
| In some cultures, you signal respecting someone's time by
| not bothering them.
|
| In other cultures, you signal respecting someone's time by
| making small-talk with them.
|
| Advice about making small talk vs. not making small talk is
| not really useful unless it acknowledges this cultural
| divide and the percentage chance a stranger falls into one
| culture or another.
| dudefeliciano wrote:
| Same, from a Latin country living in Germany and it feels
| like two different worlds
| Markoff wrote:
| I think this applies for most of the Europe other than
| south, though smaller the town more talkative the people I
| think, in villages with nothing to do are people more
| likely to be curious about the stranger or just having
| small talk.
|
| I live in tourist Prague, pretty much never talking with
| someone other than when I see someone clearly struggling
| with directions in public transport and I see they go out
| of the tourist city center I just confirm whether they know
| it, most of the time* it's not what they intend to do.
|
| *Germans being the exemption, seems they like to do whole
| team line grim the end to end to see the city even when
| it's not touristy, for these I have recommendation of some
| rare above the ground subway sections
| hax0ron3 wrote:
| For what it's worth, this has not been my experience with
| Americans. There are certainly things that I don't like about
| the average American, but I find him to be pretty gregarious.
| tnel77 wrote:
| Talking to strangers is one of my favorite things to do.
| Airplanes, trains, or just waiting at the coffee shop for them
| to make my drink. I have met so many interesting people and
| it's almost always a joy.
|
| Now, you occasionally end up talking to someone who confesses
| to you that their post-nuclear dream life is to be a mother
| figure to a band of semi-aware ghouls. Goofy in the moment, but
| makes for a great story to share over a beer!
| Markoff wrote:
| I used to do this during long travel in planes, buses or
| trains when I was single backpacker.
|
| Now traveling with my own family is just exhausting chore and
| I couldn't care less about stranger sitting next to me, I
| heard enough stories for whole my life since I traveled a
| lot.
|
| Recently I traveled with my mother to China and she was
| excited to talk with some girl next to her on long flight, I
| didn't find any value gained from such conversation and would
| rather watch a movie (or outside window is that was an
| option) and find it harder and harder older I get to see the
| added value.
| tnel77 wrote:
| I can see how that could happen, but I'd argue that the
| "value added" is just the opportunity to talk to someone.
|
| I was once decently intoxicated on a subway ride home and I
| saw a man looking at the floor who seemed upset. I asked
| him how he was doing and he said "alright." We chatted a
| little and he randomly asked me, "do you have a brother?" I
| told him I did and he asked me, "is there anything your
| brother could do that would be unforgivable?" I said, "I'm
| sure there are things he could do that would be beyond
| forgiveness, but I would have to think long and hard about
| given how permanent that decision could be. Cutting someone
| out of your life can be a good thing, but make sure it's
| what you think is right because you may never have the
| opportunity to undo it."
|
| He seemed to really appreciate the advice and went on his
| way. I'm not sure what his brother did, but I hope they are
| able to figure it out. Those types of interactions are
| (IMO) one of life's little pleasures.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| > People are lovely. Go out and try it.
|
| I hope this is not an inappropriate question, but are you by
| any chance fit and/or attractive? I've heard that and being
| well dressed affects your experience with people a lot.
|
| For me it's a mix, the majority at least try to be decent and
| pleasant, no argument there. But as with many other things, the
| minority who aren't tend to have a much bigger impact.
| Honestly, I'd take just being safe from violence from people is
| good enough for me, even that isn't a given.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| I'd take just being safe from violence from people
|
| You might want to adjust your media diet because society
| often isn't just randomly violent.
| wussboy wrote:
| I agree. 95% of violence is committed by men aged 15-25. If
| you wanted to be extra sure, just avoid that very specific
| group. But in general, minute by minute, nobody wants to be
| violent.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| But then I'd be prejudiced. Stereotypes exist because
| they have a certain good degree of accuracy, but that
| doesn't make them right. For the sake of that one person
| in that group that didn't do anything wrong, I have to
| try and be fair to the whole group.
| tmp10423288442 wrote:
| This is where you use this stereotype to do a more
| detailed evaluation of the person to decide if they're
| safe/worth engaging with, or avoid them entirely if it's
| not worth it to you. You might bring in other stereotypes
| at this point and apply this process recursively until
| you have no more statistical regularities to use to guide
| your behavior.
| xigoi wrote:
| The funny thing is that if they recommended guessing
| based on race, rather than gender and age, the comment
| would be downvoted to hell.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| Funny how? Are you suggesting some _races_ are more
| violent? Not all immutable characteristics are made
| equal.
| xigoi wrote:
| The correlation between race and violent crimes,
| particularly in the USA, is well-studied.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| No, no it isn't.
| xigoi wrote:
| https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-crime-
| stat...
|
| > African Americans are the primary group arrested for
| murders, robberies, and weapons violations, despite
| representing only 13 percent of the total US population.
| Meanwhile, the share of violent incidents involving black
| offenders (25%) was greater than the population
| percentage of black persons (12%), highlighting
| disproportionate representation in violent crime
| statistics.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| Hmmmm, I wonder why black people are arrested more.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| I wish it was just media. And it's certainly not random, I
| wouldn't expect violence in a decent neighborhood. But I
| would on the subway in NYC for example (depends on the line
| too I guess). And by violence I don't mean necessarily
| assault, but anything that involves the cops, getting
| arrested, etc.. or certain forms of mistreatment (even
| though it's a stretch to call them violence).
|
| I mentioned attractiveness because when I dress up nice and
| lose weight, it's a wildly different world. When that isn't
| the case I'd say at least 60% of my interactions with
| people is negative. Out of that I'd say maybe 2% is extreme
| enough to be considered violence in my view.
|
| I'll say this though, I didn't mean we should avoid
| interaction or being nice to each other in the off chance
| people are unpleasant or unkind. I'm just saying, don't go
| into it with that expectation unless you're pleasant to
| look at yourself.
|
| Some people, especially as they grow old (and especially
| women unfortunately), see a remarkable decline in how
| they're treated, and that in turn causes them to be jaded
| towards people. If you don't tie how people respond to you
| to how you treat them to begin with (It's huge struggle for
| me, not preaching here), it's less of a bitter pill.
| malicka wrote:
| > I wish it was just media. And it's certainly not
| random, I wouldn't expect violence in a decent
| neighborhood. But I would on the subway in NYC for
| example (depends on the line too I guess). And by
| violence I don't mean necessarily assault, but anything
| that involves the cops, getting arrested, etc.. or
| certain forms of mistreatment (even though it's a stretch
| to call them violence).
|
| The fear of crime is more socially harmful than crime
| itself, net.
|
| A hundred years ago, folks in the US trusted their
| neighbors more, despite violent crime being more likely
| than today. The US is objectively safer now, but,
| ironically, people are more afraid than ever of talking
| with strangers, and more distrustful of their neighbors.
|
| If folks back then could chat with a stranger without
| being gripped by paranoia, I think we can do it today.
| Don't let the media scare you from living life. Have
| chit-chat. Have fun!
| spiralcoaster wrote:
| What kind of violence have you experienced from striking up
| friendly conversations with strangers in otherwise normal
| circumstances? What are you talking about?
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Are you ugly?
| astura wrote:
| >People are lovely.
|
| That just hasn't been my experience.
| inanutshellus wrote:
| The "Helping You Not Become Your Parents" commercials (from
| some insurance company I think) make me sad.
|
| They're basically making fun of people for trying to connect.
|
| I'm in a spot where I don't really bump into strangers much
| but, as a recovering introvert I've tried to talk to people
| like this and it feels AMAZING.
|
| Like... irrational levels of amazing vibes.
|
| It's so frustrating seeing my own kids be horrified by it and
| be hyper-introverted and disdainful of connecting with
| strangers.
|
| Lessons you learn the hard way -- then fail to pass onto the
| next generation -- hurt.
| criddell wrote:
| > They're basically making fun of people for trying to
| connect.
|
| I had the same thought. The clueless people turning into
| their parents are charming and genuine. The life coach guy is
| kind of a dick.
|
| Reminds me of Apple's "I'm a PC, And I'm a Mac" ads from
| Apple. I always understood the point they were trying to
| make, but the PC character was so much more likable than the
| Mac.
| throwway120385 wrote:
| The Mac guy was such a try-hard. "I'm cool and kind of edgy
| over here and you're just a dope for being sincere."
| ericmcer wrote:
| Talking to strangers is actually kind of nice as an
| introvert, there is very low pressure as you have no
| obligation to the person and you can end the conversation at
| any time.
|
| I find it much nicer than talking to friends of friends or
| the absolute worst for me... the boyfriends of my girlfriends
| friends. You are getting shoved together into a forced
| interaction that you know will be asked about in the near
| future.
| 3acctforcom wrote:
| This is why I love IT conferences. I can chat up random
| strangers about topics that we're clearly both interested
| in. The vendors also send the most extroverted folks who
| are skilled in engaging introverted nerds. It's a great way
| for introverts to level up their social skills.
|
| And the best part is that I never talk to those folks again
| ;) I found out that I actually really like making fast
| friends, I just hate the obligation of long-term close-knit
| friendships.
| TiredOfLife wrote:
| > People are lovely
|
| They really are not.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| I have tried this at various times. But, while _some_ people
| are lovely, there are some that are miserable and there are
| plenty that are simply... uninterested. When you are slightly
| awkward, not particularly attractive, and not wealthy, you have
| to get used to people just turning away, avoiding eye contact,
| expressing mild cues of disgust, and so forth. It 's really
| quite painful to try.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| I have a couple of tricks that get people to _talk to me_.
|
| Well, they're not really tricks, just things I do anyway.
|
| One is that I wear an aloha shirt every day, and I shop at
| Trader Joe's.
|
| Quite often someone thinks I work there and asks me where to
| find something. I usually know where things are, and if I
| don't, I find them someone who actually does work there.
|
| One time the guy restocking the freezer said, "Nice aloha
| shirt! I bet people sometimes ask you where to find things."
|
| 30 seconds later, a lady walked up to me and asked if we carry
| organic bread. So I walked her over to the bread section and
| pointed out some organic options. Then back to the freezer
| section: "You were right!"
|
| Another trick is to take my cat Oakey for a walk in his cat
| stroller. People see the stroller and expect to see a baby in
| it, and are surprised to see a cat! Children walking with their
| parents especially love to see Oakey, and he enjoys the
| attention.
|
| Sometimes you just have to seize the moment. Last year I was at
| a friend's company summer picnic. One of her colleagues brought
| her ten year old son. He was wearing an astronomy T-shirt. They
| were sitting at another table, and as they got up I asked him,
| "Are you into astronomy?"
|
| "Yes."
|
| "I have a very important question for you. Pluto is still a
| planet, right?"
|
| "Yes it is!"
|
| We high-fived and I said, "Welcome to Team Pluto!"
|
| We've seen each other at subsequent company events. It is
| always fun to hang out with a fellow astronomy enthusiast of
| any age.
| pimlottc wrote:
| I think an important parts of this is that "talking to
| someone" doesn't have to mean a long drawn-out conversation.
| Even just a few words back and forth is meaningful.
| exhaze wrote:
| > I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely.
| Go out and try it.
|
| I've been here since 2009 and this is one of the loveliest
| comments I've read.
|
| At face value, it may seem 'duh!'.. but there's a distinct
| aesthetic to it that resonated with me.
|
| Perhaps the best analogy I can think of is Asimov's philosophy
| about writing.
|
| 'I want the reader to forget they are reading as if my thoughts
| are being transmitted directly from my brain into theirs' [sic]
|
| Recently, a research publication demonstrated that an LLM..
| nah, not today. Sometimes knowing the underlying theory and
| deciding to disengage from it and just appreciate the moment is
| fine.
|
| Because I can go outside my apartment here in Tokyo right now
| and try it. I already do, but each of us has our own unique
| loveliness. So I'll keep trying. Just because.
| ericmcer wrote:
| That is a great reminder.
|
| I have a note at the beginning of my journal that says: 'Stand
| up straight, eye contact, smile', because I constantly need to
| remember that or I will look down, slouch and move through the
| world barely interacting with anyone.
| graypegg wrote:
| Probably at least once a week, you're going to see someone drop
| something, press the wrong button on the elevator, try to push
| on the pull door etc. My own stress always peeks when I'm in
| public and trip up on something minor like that. If you just
| shout "hey you need help?" you're probably not going to make
| them feel any better and doubly worse if you just avoid eye
| contact and walk around them. When that happens to me, it can
| reaaaally sour a morning.
|
| But saying "they really need to make these doors automatic, I
| dropped my coffee here last week!" and helping out if they want
| it has the EXACT opposite effect. Suddenly, it's not
| embarrassing any more, and you might have a little convo
| commiserating about what sucks. It's just a little bit of
| connection to make someone's day a bit better which is
| definitely a win-win and good way of breaking the seal on
| talking to folks.
| voidmain0001 wrote:
| Maybe it's age related, but if any of the scenarios you wrote
| happened to me, I would not be embarrassed receiving
| someone's assistance.
| sublinear wrote:
| > If you just shout "hey you need help?" ...
|
| There's also another more neutral option. Just give them the
| answer they need without the fluff. If they then want to
| thank you and chat it's their choice, but completely
| optional.
|
| This is probably not the right approach most of the time, but
| it works well on the types of people who seem "serious" (not
| anxious or upset).
|
| This is a really hard one to pull off. You have to determine
| that they really are that type of person and then just
| magically know what they want. It's really satisfying when it
| works though.
|
| I've met some of the most interesting people I've ever known
| that way.
| MyHonestOpinon wrote:
| Coming up with the right phrase in the moment sounds risky.
| Is there another phrase you can use to offer help ?
| stronglikedan wrote:
| I try to talk to everyone but it gets exhausting since most
| people don't seem to want to talk. And in almost every
| instance, I had a feeling they wouldn't. Go with your gut and
| don't try to talk to _everyone_ if you 're like me and don't
| want to replay awkward conversations in your head for the rest
| of the night.
| oDot wrote:
| I find the decay of human connections an interesting problem to
| solve. I used to have an app that encouraged meeting in person by
| utilizing friends inviting other friends[0]. This solved many
| app-problems like correct matching and safety.
|
| Didn't catch on, though. Setting up events turned out to be too
| prohibitive. If this interests anyone feel free to contact me at
| contact [at] eventful [dot] is
|
| [0] https://blog.eventful.is/p/the-perfect-dating-app
| globular-toast wrote:
| I've had some great conversations with random strangers on public
| transport and in shops etc. Oddly I'm a complete introvert with
| quite bad social anxiety and avoid social events like work
| parties etc. But I like talking to strangers I'll never see
| again. I think it's partly because I'm not trying to make an
| impression and I'm not there _just_ to socialise. So it 's a bit
| crap for me that people are withdrawing and not engaging in
| random chit chat as much. It's so easy to be lonely these days.
| kenty wrote:
| It's indeed pretty interesting how our society has normalized
| being. what I would say is antisocial by the norms of previous
| generations in the form of the gen z stare. Funnilly I remember a
| situation where I got a job offer from somebody from an older
| generation and I just stood still and stared for 1 minute. Not
| because I wanted to be disrespectful but because I was processing
| the information and I was simply so baffled that I forgot the
| social dance of showing the thinking on my face and doing
| thinking sounds (if you know you know). This led to the other
| person holding a lecture on how you should respond that you do
| not have a response yet but I thinking. I ended up accepting.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| I talk to everyone. My friends and family joke that it's
| impossible for me to go anywhere without getting into
| conversation with someone. I can't imagine not doing it. Earlier
| this year I walked down the main shopping street it the part of
| the large city where I live, with a colleague from out of town.
|
| A few shopkeepers waved through their windows as I went past, the
| greengrocer came out of his shop to have a quick chat, the dry
| cleaner asked after my dog, and the guy from the household shop
| told me they have more of the cleaning paste I use. We bumped
| into a couple of folk I see every couple of weeks, then got a
| coffee and I paid the "special" rate rather than the rate on the
| sign that they charge people they don't know.
|
| My colleague said - half jokingly - "I didn't realise you were
| mayor", and tried to convince me that I should go into local
| politics. She couldn't understand when I said that would take all
| the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become
| transactional rather than joyous.
|
| I can't imagine not talking to people. A while back I changed the
| route I take when I walk my dogs each day, and the guy who runs
| the local fish stall started asking people if I had left the area
| or died. I don't buy fish from him each week- but every time I
| see him stop and we have a chat.
|
| I feel incredibly lucky to be missed by my fishmonger just
| because I started walking my dogs a different route.
|
| I grew up in a tiny village in the country. The building I live
| in has hundreds of people living in it, compared to the few dozen
| houses where I grew up. I think talking to people makes a huge
| city feel smaller.
| parineum wrote:
| > She couldn't understand when I said that would take all the
| pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become
| transactional rather than joyous.
|
| It doesn't have to and I suspect that's why your colleague
| suggested it. Politicians act that way because that's what
| people want except they don't want someone who is acting.
|
| You have what politicians pretend to have because it makes
| people like them.
|
| You might be a terrible politician for other reasons but I
| don't think what you've said is true.
| hluska wrote:
| Hey bud, with all due respect, you're arguing against who
| someone believes they are.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| Hold on... what do I believe I am?!
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I would have rather said he was arguing with who you
| about who you each think you can be. That is different.
| The question is whether or not you think you can remain a
| genuine and caring person while being a politician.
| svat wrote:
| Maybe you did this too: I misread the comment you're
| replying to as
|
| > ...you're arguing against someone who believes they
| are.
|
| when actually it says
|
| > ...you're arguing against who someone believes they
| are.
|
| (meaning "you're arguing with someone against who they
| believe themselves to be" or something like that.)
| saaaaaam wrote:
| Oh, you're right - I did. I was very confused! Thanks for
| pointing this out.
| crazygringo wrote:
| There are plenty of politicians who get into politics
| precisely _because_ they love interacting with everyone.
|
| It doesn't take the pleasure out of it, it doesn't make it
| transactional. It just gives them incredible job fulfillment,
| at least in that part of it.
|
| Bill Clinton was famous for this. It was incredibly
| frustrating to his staff because he was constantly late for
| his next event, because he always wanted to keep talking to
| the people he'd just met. They'd have to build in buffer time
| to plan around it, because otherwise it wound up disrupting
| his schedule and logistics too much.
| haritha-j wrote:
| Yeah, especially with the interns.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| I'm surprised by all the people saying they dislike
| transactional talk. Voluntary trades are positive sum by
| definition, so a good transactional conversation should also
| be a joyous one.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > talking to people would become transactional rather than
| joyous
|
| Only if you let it! I am guessing you would do well, because
| people can absolutely tell when you are being a smarmy
| politician and when you're actually a legitimately friendly,
| decent person.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| I've got a terrible poker face. People would instantly rumble
| me. So as soon as I had to talk to someone with politician
| face it would all go wrong.
| Jarwain wrote:
| I think it depends.
|
| Having the kind of network and connections you do connects
| you with the actual needs of your community
|
| At which point, it's not necessarily Transactional, but
| fostering connection and collaboration in order to create
| win-win situations for everyone in your community.
|
| That's what politicking Should be.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| Should be, absolutely. But isn't where I am. People who
| go into local politics here seem to be interested in
| elevating their profile, having influence, or money.
| kortilla wrote:
| It's still tainted though. Even if OP buries that underlying
| transaction, the other people he is talking to might (like I
| would) assume OP is bullshitting to placate me and secure my
| vote.
| faize wrote:
| I never make any small talk because I feel like I don't have
| anything to say or ask.
|
| How do you know what to say? How do you make the conversation
| flow and not end awkwardly?
| circlefavshape wrote:
| It doesn't really matter what you have to say or ask -
| basically the point of small talk is to express to people "I
| like you!". Just try to find something to like and the
| conversation comes (not always, but usually)
| matwood wrote:
| You can never go wrong with genuinely asking someone how
| their day is going. If someone doesn't want to talk it's very
| easy for them to shutdown the conversation and move on. But,
| I find most of the time people are dying to talk about how
| good/bad their day is going.
|
| Think of it this way. Everyone's favorite topic is
| themselves. Give someone an opportunity to talk about
| themselves and most people will take it. The nuance that
| takes practice is not peppering the person with questions.
| Ask, give them time to respond, and then maybe say something
| from your own day and ask a follow up to something they said.
| That way you keep them doing most of the talking, but it's
| not an interrogation.
|
| As for the awkward part, embrace it! I can be super awkward
| so I just run towards it. "Ending a random convo is always
| awkward for me, so I'll just say it was nice to chat and
| maybe chat again sometime." Usually there's a chuckle and
| done.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| A few things I do: I'll point something out, and ask a
| question. So if I'm in a shop I'll saying something like
| "I've never seen that before - is it popular?"
|
| If I'm getting a coffee if the barista says "How are you?"
| Rather than just saying something non-committal I'll say "I'm
| good thanks, it looks like you're having a busy day/quiet day
| - has it been like this all day?" or I'll ask a question
| about the beans (if it's the sort of place they regularly
| rotate through different beans) or I'll ask what the music
| that's playing is, or something like that. You can
| immediately tell if someone wants to continue the
| conversation. And obviously, if it's busy I won't try to
| engage them in a longer conversation unless they seem to want
| to.
|
| If I'm waiting for a bus or a train asking someone "Do you
| know if this one goes to....{destination}?" is an easy start
| - obviously, even if you know it does, and you want to talk
| to someone, it's a good start. And then you can say "Thanks,
| that's really helpful, I'm going to {destination} so that I
| can {do a thing}. How about you - are you going anywhere nice
| today?"
|
| The key thing is knowing whether someone is open to a longer
| conversation. That's something you can only learn by pushing
| through the awkwardness of people shutting you down and
| turning away, or making it clear they don't want to talk.
|
| But when they do, it's almost always very enjoyable, even if
| it's only a few minutes.
|
| It's amazing the difference you'll find if you go to the same
| shops/places regularly and make the effort to exchange a
| genuine human interaction with the people you meet - they
| remember you, and they make an effort to do things to please
| you. That's not why I do it, it's a positive consequence.
|
| I think the biggest thing is to have the conversations with
| people with no agenda. You're not trying to achieve
| something, you're just exchanging a pleasant interaction with
| someone, and hopefully you both leave feeling a little more
| connected to the world.
|
| And always ending by saying something like "Well, it was nice
| talking to you! See you around!/have a lovely day/something".
|
| If you can leave people feeling like you liked the
| interaction, you'll gradually feel like the interactions are
| pleasant.
|
| You don't need something big to say.
|
| And having dogs helps a LOT.
| jdthedisciple wrote:
| > if the barista says "How are you?"
|
| Your baristas must be particularly nice ones, bc I've never
| been asked that by any over here.
| tumdum_ wrote:
| We are living in a dictatorship of extroverts, who go out of
| their way (what a suprprise) to tell us that their ways are
| obviously better.
| atultw wrote:
| It's really tiresome. I am happy to have to a conversation if
| approached, but don't tell me I "should" do the same to others
| skirmish wrote:
| I had a recent encounter with a guy in a coffee shop who
| approached me and wanted to discuss recent sportsball games
| in great detail. I had no idea what he was talking about, I
| don't even know the local teams, after living here 30 years.
| He had no other topics.
| gib444 wrote:
| I had a friend like that. Soccer soccer soccer. His soccer
| knowledge was impeccable. But he allowed almost no space in
| his life for anything else. A kind of addiction. He had no
| other interests, didn't read about anything else.
|
| There's only so mach a person can take being on the other
| side of someone like that. We drifted apart...
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Yeah, that's issue #2 or 3 with me. My life has pretty much
| been minmaxed to be the stereotypical nerd. I don't have
| much "small talk" topics to approach with.
|
| I want to change that too, but that involves time for
| hobbies instead of job searching and worrying about debt.
| randcraw wrote:
| I abhor small talk. It's physically painful. I've heard
| that's often true of some cultures, especially northern
| europeans.
|
| I think the trick to converse on a more engaging level is
| to introduce conversation that invites deeper thought.
| Somehow you need to intrigue the other person. Compel
| them through curiosity to leave their comfort zone and
| join you where you'd prefer to be.
|
| IMO, even disagreement can be agreeable if it's not
| confrontational, if you genuinely express curiosity to
| learn what they think, what they care about.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| the dictatorship is doing extremely badly then because in my
| experience roughly the last two decades have consisted of
| safety obsession, various 'cozy' aesthetics that don't involve
| leaving your house, the death of social drinking and an uptick
| of pills and psychological diagnoses and people staring into
| their phones on every occasion.
|
| We've completely normalized being a shut-in to the point where
| your take, that it's authoritarian to push people out into the
| world and engage others, is quite common. What now passes for
| 'extroverted' used to be known as the human condition. Even
| extroverts today probably have fewer friends, smaller families
| and spend more time isolated and on screens than 99% of
| humanity.
| lovelearning wrote:
| I'm not an extrovert. Introversion itself was probably more of
| a euphemism that I used to rationalize something closer to
| social anxiety.
|
| But I feel I'm better off now for doing what the article
| suggested, over the last 5-6 years. Doing so improved my
| knowledge, my empathy, grew my revenue, built larger
| professional networks, introduced me to hobby networks, and
| helped with better financial planning.
|
| I even changed to the extent of actually looking forward to
| outreach activities that involve a lot of conversations. I find
| them very satisfying because they help me understand social
| realities and people better than social media and books and
| help me develop empathy.
|
| I wouldn't say I'm now an extrovert. My personality still
| prefers a lot of alone time. There are times when I still don't
| feel like talking to anyone. But they're now for positive
| reasons like books to finish rather than negative reasons like
| social anxiety.
|
| I now tend to see things like introversion and social anxiety
| as obstacles. One can rationalize them in many ways but they'll
| remain objective obstacles IMO.
| tumdum_ wrote:
| Thank you for proving my point - for some reason you felt you
| have to explain how introversion is an ,,objective obstacle".
| stackedinserter wrote:
| I can't agree. I'm pretty sure that we're in dictatorship of
| introverts that convinced everyone that talking or even eye
| contact with strangers is creep.
|
| "Reduce human contact to bare minimum" is standard now, at
| least in America.
| maplant wrote:
| A dictatorship? Are you being forced at gunpoint to talk to
| people?
|
| Perhaps more unsurprisingly, at the mere suggestion that
| socializing is good for you (it demonstrably is
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11403199/), you went
| and wrote a comment that I can only imagine someone who is
| deeply unhappy would write.
| Joeri wrote:
| That is not a kind judgment. While I hesitate at the word
| "dictatorship" it is fair to say that society puts more value
| on extrovert interaction than introvert contemplation, and it
| does this because extroverts dominate the social
| conversation.
| mattlondon wrote:
| I hate these sort of things. Like everyone is just sitting there
| hoping, _hoping_ for someone to strike up a conversation with
| them. Oh _thank god_ someone has started a conversation with me!
| /sarcasm
|
| Respect people's boundaries please. Don't force yourself on
| people unless they're obviously willing participants.
|
| People put extroversion/introversion as like this binary,
| permanent thing that cannot be changed. In reality I think it is
| a spectrum that changes throughout the day and the situation.
| Someone might be introverted at 8am on their commute, but a wild
| extrovert at 9pm in the bar. Don't assume, don't try to "help"
| people you know nothing about.
| granfalloon wrote:
| What's being "forced"? And what boundaries aren't being
| respected? If someone attempts to strike up a conversation and
| you're not interested, you can signal that. Or just be direct
| and say you don't feel like talking. Sure, that can be
| uncomfortable, but you can't expect humanity as a whole to
| repress its social nature just to spare you occasional,
| fleeting moments of mild discomfort. (And despite the wide
| spectrum of social inclinations -- I'm definitely on the
| introverted end -- I think it's accurate to say that humans, as
| a species, crave social interaction.)
|
| In your ideal world, how would someone even signal they are a
| "willing participant" without talking to someone?
| mattlondon wrote:
| Because it is this "talk to _anyone_ " thing, like if they
| say no you just need to keep trying because really deep down
| they just don't know how _nice_ you 're being by giving
| _them_ a chance to talk to _you_.
|
| It's supreme arrogance. Read the body language and just leave
| people alone.
|
| If someone is up for talking they'll show the obvious signs -
| facing you, eye contact, smiling, that sort of waiting-for-
| something look/expression. I've had e-fucking-nough of people
| thinking they can "fix" me when I am trying to get some time
| to myself waiting for a train or whatever after a stressful
| day at work or being woken up endlessly by
| kids/neighbours/whatever.
|
| Otherwise it should be "talk to anyone _who is obviously open
| to and willing to have a conversation with you_ ", at which
| point it's a total tautology anyway and you don't need a
| guide, it's just natural chat that you don't need to force on
| someone to make it happen.
| purerandomness wrote:
| > keep trying because really deep down they just don't know
| how nice you're being by giving them a chance to talk to
| you.
|
| I don't fathom what kind of trauma would lead you to take
| this positive, light-hearted advice to connect to fellow
| human beings, and to spin this into such a vile, evil,
| anti-social narrative.
|
| How does that help?
| mattlondon wrote:
| And that's precisely the point: you can't fathom what
| someone has been through.
|
| Don't assume people want to talk. Respect boundaries,
| leave people alone.
| kshacker wrote:
| I am currently struggling with a deep rumination loop about
| events from 35 years ago; the trigger three weeks ago was
| completely accidental, but it was one of the biggest shocks I've
| had in decades. I can't help but think how different life would
| be if I had the communication skills then that I have now.
|
| Growing up in a conservative, religious household outside the US,
| there was no support for slow processors, and those who didn't
| fit the dogma were simply told to 'shut up.' The more you were
| forced to shut up, the more you closed off. Since this was before
| the internet, self-help tools were non-existent. I really wish
| the coaching tools and protocols we have today had been available
| back then. It wouldn't have changed everything, but it would have
| given me the tools to manage many situations that I simply
| couldn't handle at the time.
|
| And yes, I agree with the headline... talk to people, anyone,
| everyone. Maybe you'll get help, or maybe you just go for it--
| because regardless of any embarrassment you face now, you may
| find yourself proud of that courage decades later.
|
| PS: Improved with AI
| AntiDyatlov wrote:
| Man, talking to strangers in random places just feels socially
| uncalibrated to me, like I'm being retarded. The first time I
| across that idea was in the form of "cold approach", the idea of
| trying to score a date from a woman you see while out and about.
|
| I wonder if anyone who did this had to start from a baseline of
| feeling this is straight up weird (I'm pretty sure it is weird in
| my culture).
| Agingcoder wrote:
| This is very different
|
| Most random encounters have a pretext, from smoking a cigarette
| to talking to the shopkeeper, or being in a queue for a long
| time.
|
| Talking to a woman ( esp given that many of them are harassed
| from what I understand from my female friends ) without any
| reason to is much harder
| paulpauper wrote:
| Cold approaches worked better before social media and
| smartphones . now your awkward encounters can live forever
| online and cause humiliation for years to come , or some
| stranger looking for clout may step in. This is has become so
| common now , because everyone wants to be a hero.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| It is a hard skill, but I do recommend it. I have always
| struggled with initiating a conversation with a stranger, but 99
| times out of 100 it has turned out well. My teenage daughter just
| stands there agape when I do it, she is still struggling even to
| speak up to the cashier taking her fast food order. I keep
| telling her that it makes me pretty nervous too, but it is so
| worth taking the little leap.
| k__ wrote:
| I usually avoid strangers, because those who talk to you are
| usually weirdos.
|
| Thing is, if normal people don't talk to strangers anymore, then
| only the weirdos are left, reinforcing the idea that only weirdos
| talk to strangers...
| mattlondon wrote:
| +1 In any major city it's probably 90% chance they're either a
| crook trying to scam you out of something or mentally not quite
| right. The remaining 10% will be tourists or people from
| outside of the major city.
| hluska wrote:
| Or they have social skills?
| watwut wrote:
| If they cone accross as mwntally ill, they dont have social
| skill. Per definition.
|
| Scamming crools frequently do have good social skills, but
| of course there is that risk of being scammed if you talk
| to them.
| sieep wrote:
| I understand what both of you are saying, I lived in areas
| where if someone is talking to you on the street theres a
| high chance theyre asking you for something, so you learn
| to just kinda block all of it out. Now that I moved to a
| smaller town, I find myself talking to strangers much more
| frequently.
| majormajor wrote:
| You're confusing "asking people for something" with "talking
| to people."
|
| Nobody wants randos coming up to them and asking for
| something.
|
| Most people would be less lonely if everyone had more
| practice at making _non-transactional_ conversation.
|
| _Actively avoiding conversation_ still qualifies as
| "weirdo" behavior to most people.
| rzzzt wrote:
| "Someday - and that day may never come" - they will be
| asking for something. Now you are on talking terms and it
| will be harder to refuse the ask, compared to the request
| of a complete stranger.
| nzeid wrote:
| On public transit or a street, maybe. But only maybe.
|
| Are you willfully ignoring people at bars, night clubs,
| supermarkets, etc?
|
| It's obvious 99% of the time whether or not the conversation
| is in the wrong place and wrong time.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| bars and clubs are specific venues for social interactions.
|
| Supermarkets are a toss up. Most people are there to get
| their food and get out.
| barbs wrote:
| In my experience that's not true at all, but I think a lot of
| people have that perception, which is sad.
| haritha-j wrote:
| This is sad but not inconsistent with my experience. Though I
| think 10% is actually the people who genuinely want to have a
| nice conversation. and I think that worth putting up witrh
| the rest 90% for.
| hluska wrote:
| In my experience, only weirdos never speak to strangers. Social
| skills are easy, conversations are easy and strangers are just
| people you don't know yet.
|
| I still can't understand the point of this. Do you get a charge
| telling social anxious people they'll be weird if they do their
| homework? That's precisely what you did. Why?
| mh2266 wrote:
| I live in NYC. Maybe this is different in the suburbs. Nearly
| 100% of the people that approach me are trying to get
| something from me. Scam me, get me to sign something I don't
| want to sign, get me to donate my money to save the
| dogs/children/etc.
|
| If someone on the street tries to talk to me, I try to avoid
| even looking at them or acknowledging them. They'll use that
| as an opening. Just keep walking.
| boca_honey wrote:
| Well, that's your experience. Some people live in places
| where most strangers that talk to you are wierdos. Some of us
| live in places where most strangers on the street are
| actually dangerous (and I'm not talking about NYC or any
| place in America, I'm talking about actual criminal hotspots,
| which is the reality of a huge portion of humanity you
| probably don't think about).
| b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
| this. it's alarming how many takes ITT are detached from
| reality.
| tl2do wrote:
| I agree that expanding communication with strangers is important.
| But starting with "Do you mind if I sit here? Or did you want to
| be alone with your thoughts?" and then continuing a conversation
| for 10+ minutes is a real struggle for me. Sometimes I even
| wonder--how exactly does this kind of individual conversation
| actually help me? Maybe this is just me.
| majormajor wrote:
| Yeah it'll be hard. But with a lot of practice it'll get
| easier. I think part of the practice is recognizing "they don't
| want me to continue this conversation" and bailing, vs trying
| to force _every_ interaction to be a deeper conversation.
|
| I never practiced "idle conversation with a complete stranger"
| like that because I was lazy. But I _did_ practice _making
| normal, non-sexual, conversation with women on dating sites and
| dates_ so that I could go from "isolated in school, then after
| going online, low response rate and never more than 1 or 2
| dates" to someone in a long-term relationship. And recognizing
| that sort of "ok there's just not any interest here, move
| along" signal was definitely relevant there too.
|
| Skills take investment.
|
| My parents didn't give me nearly as many opportunities to
| practice these skills as they had when they grew up, and pop
| culture actively encouraged me _not_ to talk to strangers as a
| kid, so I had to work harder at them as an adult. But it was
| worth it.
| tl2do wrote:
| Is it a matter of skill, or a matter of courage?
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| It's a matter of priveledge. Many people don't have time to
| try and make new connections
| reddalo wrote:
| >how exactly does this kind of individual conversation actually
| help me?
|
| It doesn't. It just helps the speaker.
| tl2do wrote:
| That makes me think--why do I enjoy conversations with
| friends then? What's really the difference between a friend
| and a stranger? Friends annoy me too, maybe even more often
| than strangers do.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Your friends are hopefully somewhat invested in you for a
| non-transactional reason, and have proven to be a non-
| threat. There's no guarantees with a stranger.
| jmye wrote:
| What a bizarre perspective. Have you never gotten any
| personal value out of a single conversation in your entire
| life? Have you never made a friend? I don't understand this
| "all conversations are bad and useless" nonsense. What on
| earth do you think you're doing on social media?
| reddalo wrote:
| I'm not saying that all conversations are bad. I'm just
| talking about the one hour one-sided conversations
| described in the article.
| basilikum wrote:
| One of the basic rules of starting conversations with
| other people is letting the other person do most of the
| talking. People like talking about themselves. So the old
| lady in the article violated that rule. That isn't to say
| that just talking to people instead of actually talking
| with them will never work. You might be lucky and the
| person you talk to just happens to be very interested in
| what you want to tell them, but it is rather unlikely.
|
| Once you have shown that you are interested in someone by
| listening to them and thereby learning about them, you
| might sometimes find that they might also be interested
| in something you can share with them. The easiest way to
| get someone interested in you is to first get interested
| in them.
|
| It's a pretty simple principle, but since people like to
| talk about themselves they often do not follow it.
| divan wrote:
| Does it work in Scandinavian countries?
| Telaneo wrote:
| I can't imagine it would, at least not without some (a lot of)
| social lube. Even bars might prove hard, since a lot of people
| there will be the regulars and other fixed groups who probably
| aren't interested in making friends. If you could join the
| smokers for a fag that might work out, but that doesn't happen
| any more since you can't smoke outside public establishments
| (which is fair, but it does remove a potential social arena).
|
| It's reasonably possible at events. Cars and Coffee works
| great, since everybody wants to talk about their car. I doubt
| it will work at the dentist, since nobody really wants to be
| there in the first place. Maybe if they're wearing a shirt or
| something you can compliment or ask about and then can use that
| as a springboard?
|
| If you're the dictionary definition of an extrovert you can
| probably still make it work, but you'll really stand out, and
| you'll be rejected a lot.
| Agingcoder wrote:
| My kids make fun of me because I know the shopkeepers around me
| by first name, along with the details of their businesses , and
| that shopping takes forever because I talk to everyone, customers
| included.
|
| I just love it, it's easy and I get a lot in return - from perks
| to incredible encounters. At work it's been very helpful.
|
| I developed that skill while traveling alone for a year , and it
| boils down to practicing and reading whether the person you're
| talking to is ok with your talking or not.
|
| In any case, it makes me immensely happy.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| This is absolutely my experience.
|
| And now because I know them I go there because I can buy my
| stuff but also spend five minutes chatting and that makes going
| grocery shopping a real joy. And because I go there and chat
| they do nice things like give me a couple of tomatoes or
| "you've got to try this cake" or the wine shop where I
| automatically get a 15% discount, or the butcher where they let
| me in when are already closed but they know I've come over
| specially.
|
| And some of those people have become real friends, like go and
| have dinner together friends. We have very different lives but
| we get on because we get on. I think everyone benefits from
| reaching out of their bubble a bit.
|
| If I'm feeling a bit glum I'll go out to buy bread or something
| because I know just seeing the people I see regularly will lift
| me up.
| Panzer04 wrote:
| It's interesting, because while having that skill is helpful I
| think part of the issue a lot of people have is an overturned
| sense for it - they will be worried they are getting judged for
| wasting their counterparts time.
|
| It's good to have, but don't let not having it (yet) stop you!
| firefoxd wrote:
| I'm happy to see that in a sea of commenters who'd hate for
| anyone to strike a conversation with them, there are people who
| still enjoy connecting with others.
|
| We are in a public forum afterall and we are all strangers here.
| I'm always happy when random person sends me an email.
| himata4113 wrote:
| I feel that there is a down-spiral to this. People who talk to me
| usually want something from me so I started avoiding people since
| I have the expectation that they want something form me which
| means that I also think I look like a weirdo whenever I try to
| talk to somebody so I stop talking to people.
| thrownawaysz wrote:
| or how to get labeled as a creep by every women
|
| joke or not (actually not) but read some women spaces and it's
| obviously a lot of people, especially women, just want to be let
| alone. Don't start talking with random people unless they start
| talking to you and it's consensual, simple as that.
| medi8r wrote:
| Common sense applies. If someone is on a run, dont bother them.
| If you are in a queue I think make a comment is OK if theh
| respond keep talking.
| hresvelgr wrote:
| It's only creepy if you are a creep.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| That's exactly right, you've got to be an unmistakable
| gentleman, which is just the opposite.
|
| As everybody knows that's still often not enough, but why
| shoot yourself in the foot when you're trying to put your
| best foot forward?
|
| I'll never forget the day some sophisticated gentlemen came
| to my school and introduced one of their big hit songs that
| night.
|
| How there's 5 little words so many single women love to hear,
| "Hey Girl, What's Your Name?"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09w6_q0Chxk
|
| If you look at the lyrics it is a bit straightforward for the
| 21st century, I think the best approach now is to compress it
| to only 4 words, "Hi, What's Your Name?".
|
| Even that can be a bit much in the wrong situation, so it can
| be good to seek out the opposite type of situation :)
|
| You might keep that on your mind but from there let things
| try to imply the rest of the lyrics, especially the part that
| goes "Can I Be Your Friend?"
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >As everybody knows that's still often not enough, but why
| shoot yourself in the foot when you're trying to put your
| best foot forward?
|
| Because the best food forward of a creep is still a creep.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| >a creep is still a creep.
|
| Yeah, some people are only up to no good :\
|
| If you can't differentiate yourself from that, it would
| be something to work on well before you try and be as
| socially acceptable as the average joe.
|
| For everyone else who's not a creep, maybe you just have
| to "accept" that everyone in the world just doesn't want
| to be socially acceptable anyway.
| jaapz wrote:
| > Don't start talking with random people unless they start
| talking to you
|
| Nobody would talk with anybody if both sides thought like that
| tbossanova wrote:
| Yeah but if everyone follows that then nobody ever talks to
| anyone "random" ever. The key is to just not be creepy. Some
| little low stakes thing that can just end easily if they don't
| want to chat. "Such a long wait for this bus. Should have
| brought a book." If you get a brief response, fine, end of
| conversation. Otherwise, then you can chat.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >if everyone follows that then nobody ever talks to anyone
| "random" ever.
|
| well, yes. mission accomplished.
|
| > The key is to just not be creepy.
|
| Sadly, the ones who are creepy never realize they are creepy.
| latexr wrote:
| > or how to get labeled as a creep by every women
|
| If you're a man and go into it with the mindset of only talking
| to women, especially attractive ones, then of course that would
| get you labeled as a creep because it is creep behaviour.
| That's not striking up a conversation with strangers, it's
| hitting on women. You have to approach _anyone equally_.
| Address the attractive woman the same way you approach the old
| man on the bus stop.
| theultdev wrote:
| Talking to people you are attracted to is how the human race
| lives on.
|
| And noone knows if you are talking to people "equally" they
| only know the conversation they are currently in.
|
| I guess you could just hit on everyone. Old, ugly, whatever!
| Then you won't be a creep.
|
| But in all seriousness, the difference between courting
| someone and creeping someone out is how attractive _you_ are
| to _them_ , not the other way around.
| jmye wrote:
| Bullshit. That's internet incel horseshit. Have an _actual_
| conversation. Get to a point where your sole, entire
| intention isn 't just to con a woman into sleeping with
| you, and where you like, maybe want to get to know her.
| Lose the weird, internet pick-up artist intensity.
|
| Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If
| they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching. If
| not, maybe, just maybe, there's some _subtle_ differences
| in how you approach people you see as sex toys vs. people
| you see as, you know, people.
| theultdev wrote:
| Where did I say not to have an actual conversation?
|
| You can hit on someone and connect with them.
|
| Be nice, connect, open up, share, listen, love. All that
| shit.
|
| Then you'll get a wife, like myself. Good luck.
|
| Or just make friends, or enemies, whatever floats your
| boat.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >Get to a point where your sole, entire intention isn't
| just to con a woman into sleeping with you, and where you
| like, maybe want to get to know her.
|
| But the point of this exercise isn't to make a deep
| friendship. It's practice. Is this article inherently
| creepy?
|
| >Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If
| they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching.
|
| If they do, they're a lot better at hiding it. The big
| difference is in threat level. I don't see men nor women
| approach me and think "are they trying to hurt me/hit on
| me" as a default.
| haritha-j wrote:
| > But the point of this exercise isn't to make a deep
| friendship. It's practice.
|
| Personally, that wasn't my takeaway. I thought it was
| more that you and the other person would get some joy out
| of the interaction. As in, conversations with strangers
| will be fun, even if you don't end up being friends.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| So, trying to approach women is creepy. Got it.
| mcdeltat wrote:
| I find it interesting how this comment says we should be
| socialising with everyone equally, and another upvoted
| comment elsewhere here says to modify your appearance to be
| more approachable.
|
| So which is it?
| haritha-j wrote:
| I'm very conscious of this, perhaps more so due to being a
| brown immigrant, which is why I prefer to chat with men or
| older people. There's much less ambiguity there.
| mrweasel wrote:
| > Don't start talking with random people unless they start
| talking to you
|
| How would that work exactly? Someone needs to go first.
|
| Don't bother people obviously and if they don't want to talk
| they don't want to talk, that should always be respected. It's
| just that the idea that "you should never talk to anyone" is
| massively fueling a loneliness epidemic.
|
| As for interaction with men and women: Everyone seems to agree
| that dating apps suck and that people should just "go out and
| meet people". Good luck with that if you're not allowed to talk
| to anyone.
|
| There's a number of people how are going to be creeps and
| disrespectful, but they also don't give a shit about your
| "don't talk to me rule", so now ALL your interactions are going
| be with creeps.
|
| Talk to as many people as you can, but be respectful, learn to
| read who'd rather be left alone and stop if the person clearly
| doesn't want to talk to you.
| Hamster7330 wrote:
| I was at a conference recently and I went to a meetup session
| that the organizers put through and I was so anxious that I took
| a lapel pin and left immediately :( I knew about my social
| anxiety but never saw it first hand as such. I am so bad in
| networking with people.
| jacobtomlinson wrote:
| I'm sorry you had that experience, I know that feeling and it
| sucks.
|
| One thing I love about socials at conferences is that it's a
| self selecting group of people who want to talk to other
| people, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Even if people are
| shy and awkward they are in that room because they want to be
| social, even if they aren't able to start the conversation
| themselves. There's also usually a code of conduct for the
| conference so you have a better chance of people behaving in an
| acceptable way towards you, which makes the whole thing feel
| less risky. Over the last 10 years I've gotten much better at
| talking to people at these events and now quite enjoy them.
|
| That being said I still find it really hard to walk up to a
| group of strangers and say hi, but in this setting it's way
| more socially acceptable, so I force myself to do it. I much
| prefer to be invited into conversation by another person, which
| does happen occasionally. But sometimes you have to be the one
| to start.
|
| The only time I've found it go negatively is when you chat with
| a group of people who all work together, especially if they are
| remote, because they may be using the conference social to bond
| with their colleagues and not some random person. But that's
| their problem, and you should just watch for that scenario and
| move on to another group.
| plasticeagle wrote:
| I agree with this article completely.
|
| I've had three long and very memorable conversations on
| internaltional plane flights in the past, with three extremely
| interesting and intelligent people. I don't tend to take those
| flights anymore, they were for work and the novelty of
| international travel for work wore off. Now I get out of it
| whenever I can.
|
| But those three conversations have stayed with me.
| h4kunamata wrote:
| In a world full of shallow people and AI here and there, people
| cannot hold deep talks anymore. You can still talk with anyone
| but going out specifically to talk with anyone??? Yeah, that
| ain't happening.
|
| It gives me anxiety lmao you will have better time with hobbies.
| ratsimihah wrote:
| That's what I loved about NYC, people were generally open-minded
| and easy to talk to, so I'd chat with tons of people
| spontaneously. Having moved back to France now, it generally
| feels harder and weirder, but I got used to it.
| emmelaich wrote:
| I've done some Uber driving. Chatting in a car is great because
| there's no awkwardness of whether to look at one another. I've
| met some really interesting people, from all backgrounds. I can
| recommend it if you have time to spare and want to chat with
| people.
|
| Not everyone wants to talk but you can pick up on that pretty
| quickly.
| throwaway2046 wrote:
| https://archive.ph/VrnI7
| sghiassy wrote:
| Did anyone notice how the last paragraph links to a paid course
| on talking to strangers... paid advertising??
| spzb wrote:
| Mutually beneficial. The publication gets an article people
| might want to read and the author gets free publicity. Happens
| all the time.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| And that's the moral of the story: 99% of anything "free" these
| days are transactional.
| consp wrote:
| Why does the majority of people just assume people want to
| communicate... I have not read the article and never am going to.
| This headline premise alone of doing that will destroy any sanity
| I have. I do not, ever, want to talk you as a standard and you
| should never force that to me.
| rambambram wrote:
| You basically just 'forced' me to read your comment. Aren't you
| talking to a stranger here?
| latexr wrote:
| > Why does the majority of people just assume people want to
| communicate
|
| They don't. If they did they wouldn't have an issue striking up
| a conversation with strangers, but they clearly do.
|
| > I have not read the article and never am going to.
|
| If you don't know what it says, it might be wise to not be
| negative about it.
|
| > I do not, ever, want to talk you as a standard and you should
| never force that to me.
|
| The article isn't suggesting anyone force anything. Quite the
| contrary, it advocates for respecting boundaries and even
| suggests how to communicate your own.
| jackvalentine wrote:
| You should really read the article rather than judging it based
| on the title. The author establishes several reasons you might
| want to speak to others and highlights cultural phenomena where
| people seem to be yearning for more connection with strangers.
|
| If after reading it you decide it's not for you then that's
| fine, it is as they say bean soup.
| yadaeno wrote:
| I usually dislike when people talk to me in public. Some people
| have nothing to say but they trap you in a conversation anyways.
| Some people are genuinely interesting and energizing to talk to.
| Either way, every conversation i've had in public has stuck with
| me and I can remember these conversations 6+ years later.
| gib444 wrote:
| I fail at the first hurdle. A small innocuous comment is often
| met with a "huh?" as if I had said it in Japanese or mentioned
| how nice the wallpaper tastes. It's like they clock the
| (relatively mild) autism immediately. Then I just feel super self
| conscious and lock up
| yokoprime wrote:
| I speak to everyone when in "work mode". Its part of the job. I
| smalltalk, im curious, i listen. When off work I dont really want
| to talk to people at all (outside "my" people, i.e. my family and
| small group of friends). If someone strikes up a conversation I
| will of course engage, but I reach a threshold where I run out of
| gas and have to excuse myself.
| mech4bg wrote:
| I'm the same - work persona is curious, engaged, loves to talk
| to new people. Off work sometimes this bleeds over, but
| generally I retreat to my more comfortable introverted self.
|
| It's a valuable skill, so I do sometimes practice trying to
| adopt the work persona at home, but it really doesn't come
| naturally.
| vibe_that_works wrote:
| I read in a couple of comments that you are worried about
| "bothering people". To be honest, don't worry about it, you can
| attribute sufficient life skills to others to simply tell you
| (verbally or non-verbally) in case they feel bothered.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >you can attribute sufficient life skills to others to simply
| tell you (verbally or non-verbally) in case they feel bothered.
|
| The non-verbal cues are wher things get difficult.
| hs586 wrote:
| One of my best stranger conversations talking to a "Big Issue"
| seller outside a supermarket. As I understand, they're (close to)
| homeless usually [1].
|
| When I asked about him, he mentioned he's Irish but moved on to
| tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm,
| planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description.
| His story was his future.
|
| This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about
| their past, where they're coming from. It was the first time I
| realised that where we're going should be a bigger part of our
| story and identity.
|
| I try to keep that conversation in mind.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Issue
| mcdeltat wrote:
| As someone who has struggled with social anxiety over the years
| and has thought about this a lot, I have some thoughts.
|
| It's all nice to imagine everyone talking to each other, but the
| reality is that in (western?) society, we have kinda collectively
| decided that socialisation is to be avoided. Either it's too
| weird, too boring, or too unsafe. I mean have you tried randomly
| talking to people? Most don't seem very open to it.
|
| Also it doesn't help that the little "pretext" scenarios that can
| lead to socialising are being systematically eliminated from our
| lives.
|
| And finally, if you're neurodivergent or otherwise aren't
| perfectly typical, enjoy people thinking you're weird anyway.
| vector_spaces wrote:
| Yes, there is a pervasive anxiety around strangers and
| impromptu socializing among younger millennials and Gen Z
| particularly in North America and parts of Europe, and across
| age groups in certain subcultures. There are lots of causes for
| this, but this phenomenon is neither as entrenched nor as
| universal as you might think and the dangers are basically
| infinitesimal (zero for all intents and purposes). If you are
| respectful and mindful of how you engage, the overwhelming
| majority of people will at worst ignore you. Which sucks, yes,
| but more than likely they won't even do that, i.e. they'll
| probably reciprocate
|
| I agree re the pretext scenarios disappearing and re
| neurodivergence adding extra challenges.
|
| RE the former: there are lots more of these pretext scenarios
| than you might realize
|
| RE the latter, I realize it's not your point but for what it's
| worth, you won't really be able to tell in most cases that
| someone on the street or wherever is or isn't nd. Meaning:
| there's a good chance that the person you are talking to is nd
| themselves. Lots of us are pros at masking
|
| In general though i would say to be careful when generalizing
| about human behavior in a way that causes you to implement and
| enforce rules / limitations on your own behavior in response.
| This is unavoidable, right? And yes, there's often an nd
| component to this. But especially as you get older, these can
| start to calcify and limit you in increasingly destructive ways
| illichosky wrote:
| It is hard as fuck for me. But every time it happened (either me
| or other person starting) turned out a great memory on itself, or
| lead to great experiences right after. Still, I do it less often
| that I would like
| caditinpiscinam wrote:
| It makes me sad that my reaction to this piece is so cynical, but
| I really think that 90% of the "how" in this article is "be an
| older British lady". If you're missing that vital piece you'll
| quickly meet many people who "don't have any money", or just
| remembered they meant to be walking on the other side of the
| street, or worse. Talking to strangers when people see you as a
| threat feels really shitty (for everyone involved) and can be
| dangerous.
| cal_dent wrote:
| I think you're wrong personally. I'm very far away from being
| "an older British lady" and agree a lot with the article.
|
| Honestly, in the least combative & confrontational possible,
| your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and
| engage with the rest of your world. It's a little sad (not you,
| the situation itself) because if more people had that same
| thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with no one
| talking to each other and those people you allude to being an
| afraid to talk too for whatever reason become the only people
| out there talking. We're certainly not there yet and I hope we
| never get there
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >Your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and
| engage with the rest of your world.
|
| My thoughts are formed from personal experience. You get a
| few experiences and you get the hint.
| jgwil2 wrote:
| It's interesting because it's undoubtedly true that bias
| and prejudice affect one's interactions with the world. At
| the same time, it's true to that this can contribute to a
| vicious cycle via self-fulfilling prophecy.
|
| I would say that sometimes you have to make a distinction
| between truths about the world and beliefs that can be
| helpful to you personally; sometimes these are in
| contradiction with each other, so you may find that you
| have to prefer to fiction to the truth in order to achieve
| better results.
|
| This seems to be very common and accepted wisdom in the
| world of sports: a weaker opponent going against a stronger
| opponent may have virtually no chance of success, but they
| can marginally improve those chances via "belief."
| caditinpiscinam wrote:
| I agree that it's a sad state of affairs, and a self-
| fulfilling prophecy. Maybe I can explain my perspective in a
| little more detail.
|
| In my typical day at work (teacher), I spend hours talking
| with dozens of people. A large part of why I chose this work
| was to escape the isolation that I felt previously when I was
| doing remote software work. I attend weekly religious
| services and make an effort to stay for the social hour
| afterwards. When I go to parties, I don't feel like I have an
| unusually hard time talking with people. I'm not always as
| engaged with the world as I'd like, but I don't feel that I'm
| avoiding it either.
|
| But this article isn't broadly about having conversations
| with new people: it's about approaching strangers in public
| settings one-on-one (the article mentions a bus stop, the
| street, and a mostly empty train carriage), where there's no
| expectation of social interaction. This is a different
| situation with its own set of pitfalls. Nobody is going to
| assume that I'm trying to rob them when I introduce myself at
| Quaker meeting. No one is going to think I'm a creep for
| asking a student about their hobbies while I'm at school. We
| don't see articles about people getting shot for starting up
| a conversation at a party.
|
| But all of that goes out the window in the settings that the
| author describes. It's funny, the author mentions feeling
| like it was "rude and unsafe" to start a chat during the
| pandemic. I felt like talking to strangers in public got
| _much easier_ during the pandemic, when people were desperate
| for any sort of in-person conversation. It 's the normal
| times when this sort of interaction feels rude and unsafe.
|
| Maybe I'm too pessimistic, maybe it would be fine for me to
| let my guard down a little. I think that loneliness is a huge
| issue these days and I'm grateful for the efforts people are
| making (including the author of the article) to address it.
| But approaching strangers in public in the way the author
| describes is a special case that is *much* more fraught than
| other types of social interaction, and is a lot harder for
| certain people to do successfully. I wish it weren't that
| way, and maybe it's worth pushing back against, but that
| doesn't change the current reality. Some people might not
| feel this way, but they're probably the people for whom it's
| not true.
| cal_dent wrote:
| This was an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it.
| Its all very geographical context dependent I suspect and
| that's where difference in perspective can be quite
| different.
|
| One thing though is why you see new people as any different
| than strangers? I'm not a Quaker or ever attended a quaker
| meeting (but have always liked the ethos of the vibe) so
| don't know how that goes. But i've spent time in christian
| churches in my younger days and even though we were all
| there for the same reason, those people were still also
| strangers. Some already had their cliques they'd speak to
| and catch up with and I'm sure if someone outside that
| spoke to them the same double take that initially occurs
| talking to any new person or stranger would still occur
| there. Some people would want to continue chatting, some
| people would rather just talk to whoever they were talking
| to before. But its still fundamentally the same thing as
| talking to (or attempting to talk to and being shutdown by)
| someone doing the same thing you are currently doing,
| whether that's being on a train or sitting at a cafe etc.
| slfnflctd wrote:
| At church or during social gatherings in a friend's home,
| there is a certain set of expectations of behavior which
| are much more well defined and widely understood than the
| behavior you can expect from random people traveling
| though the NYC streets or subway.
|
| There are settings where I'm _much_ more likely to engage
| in conversation with a random stranger than others,
| because I know it 's far _less_ likely that they will
| react unpredictably and /or try to scam/hurt me.
| cal_dent wrote:
| Again maybe its a geographical thing since I don't live
| in NYC, but I have visited several times, so i have
| narrower perception of this. My view and experience is
| that its far more likely that engaging with a random
| stranger that they will either politely ignore you, go on
| their way than react unpredictably and/or try to
| scam/hurt you. Similarly, its more likely that they will
| respond to you (even if its a throwaway reply and thats
| that) than react unpredictably. A society where those two
| statements aren't true doesnt exist as it would be
| complete chaos with no interaction between anyone at all
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| >First, there is no such thing as a [socially] successful
| person who has never ever creeped anyone out. Give yourself
| permission to be creepy. I am not saying that you should go
| around trying to creep people out; of course, if you know
| something is going to scare someone, you shouldn't do it;
| it is best that one avoid becoming Harvey Weinstein. But
| miscommunications, awkwardness, and misunderstandings
| happen. Sometimes people make mistakes. You are not going
| to become Harvey Weinstein by accident. Most people have
| interacted with someone who has creeped them out at some
| point, and it does not exactly cause lifelong damage. And
| while there can be some negative consequences, particularly
| of creeping people out at work, if you ask [about] a random
| stranger['s day] at a bookstore or something and they're
| creeped out, you know what will happen? Absolutely nothing.
| The [social] police will not come lock you up for
| creepiness in the third degree.
|
| Lightly adapted from [1], which is actually the best
| article online about how to find love and date.
|
| [1] https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/models-
| a-summ...
| StrugglingDev wrote:
| I completely agree with you here, you are being considerate
| and aware. There are times and places where things are more
| appropriate and although I do think we can all benefit in
| lowering our guard and being more brave in having
| conversations with others. I disagree with the other poster
| about how every good socially successful person has creeped
| someone out, I think this is always something we should be
| considerate about and not just take it as a fact.
| Conversations involve two people, and we should always be
| considerate of the other instead of using it
| transactionally to further our own growth at their expense.
| I also really dislike the shared source of where their
| idealogy comes from (alpha male.. yuck). I think you are
| participating in your community and talking to many people,
| if you find that you'd like to lower your guard and talk to
| strangers, I have a strong feeling that what is intuitive
| to you would be the right thing to do
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| So be an older British lady? You get to decide how people see
| you. Hair, clothes, body language, smile, is 90% of how people
| decide whether they want to interact with you.
|
| When I dye my hair all kinds of colors, random people talk to
| me (and the specific colors even dictate who talks). When I
| dress up in a suit, people treat me more seriously. When I
| dress like a contractor and drive my truck, regular dudes talk
| to me at gas stations. And when I dress queer, women (and some
| dudes) smile at me.
|
| I'm not even outgoing personality-wise, which would help more.
| Personality's the mental equivalent of physical appearance.
| Think of it like acting: actors pretend to be a certain way,
| and if it feels genuine, it makes us love or hate them,
| intrigued or bored. It's a lot more work than changing clothes,
| but it works no matter what you wear.
| caditinpiscinam wrote:
| I don't think older British lady is in the cards for me but I
| get your point. One of my friends has a dog (a very cute
| little yorkie) who I take on walks fairly often. Let me tell
| you: I get _so_ many people coming up to me wanting to talk
| when I 'm out walking that dog. It's like I'm suddenly
| transported to a different universe where people are 100x
| more sociable.
|
| It makes sense: people love dogs. It gives us something in
| common and is a starting point for conversation. And people
| with cute dogs seem much less threatening.
|
| But I also kind of resent it. I wish people would want to
| talk to me when I'm just me.
| le-mark wrote:
| Don't feel bad please. There's a flip side to all these
| sociable people which you are sensing. It's the fallacy of
| "winning friends and influencing people". Suppose you are
| sociable and use the tricks to get to know people (take an
| interest in their interest, ask for favors, etc) the
| reality is it will almost never be reciprocated. You get a
| bunch of people to like you but they will never know you
| because they're pitiful and shallow. After a while you will
| resent them and just skip it all.
| mcdeltat wrote:
| > You get to decide how people see you. Hair, clothes, body
| language, smile, is 90% of how people decide whether they
| want to interact with you.
|
| I see what you're getting at, but also this take kinda annoys
| me because it falls into the bucket of implying a personal
| fault. If people don't socialise with you then it _must_ be
| because you do or don 't do X, Y, Z. "Just do X" and you'll
| become a social butterfly.
|
| Based on my personal experience, I don't know if I buy it. I
| guess I'm a regular enough guy, but seriously almost never,
| across my whole life, does someone invoke random
| socialisation with me. Yet I know people who can't even take
| the bus without strangers striking up conversations and
| hassling them, while they are actively trying to be
| antisocial. What magic trick are these people performing? Can
| I learn the same trick? What if I don't want to perform it? I
| think the reality is that for some (many?) people, it just
| doesn't work out and it's not necessarily due to any
| particular flaw.
| curiouscube wrote:
| As someone who both experienced phases in life where no one
| approached me and phases were I get approached regularly,
| it's a mix of external signifiers and some internal woo
| stuff that people don't really understand conciously. Or
| said another way, when someone says you have to "look
| approachable" what they actually mean is that a) you have
| to present yourself externally in a way that makes people
| more likely to engage you (the aforementioned hair, clothes
| etc.) and b) you have to internally be open to the world
| (which is what dictates your body language in subtle ways
| that apparently get picked up). The issue is when someone
| says something like "have an open body language" is that
| it's impossible to 24/7 fake a certain type of body
| language, you actually have to believe it.
|
| If you are naturally a distrusting person people will pick
| up on it, just how people will pick up if you're naturallly
| an open person. (The true trick is realizing that
| "naturally" can be changed)
| wsng wrote:
| As part of a smalltalk training, we had to go out and
| approach strangers in the public. I entered a tram to try
| my luck. As soon as as I sat down, someone else started
| to talk to me, and we had a nice conversation. I didn't
| even need to break the ice myself. So I can (anecdotally)
| confirm that people can perceive if you want to connect
| or rather want to be left alone.
| mcdeltat wrote:
| I do see what you mean but again I'm not sure if I buy
| it, because it still sounds pretty meritocratic. I have
| been through times in life with severe social anxiety and
| times without, and the quantity of approach hasn't really
| changed. And doesn't explain the people who get
| approached even when trying to be closed off (I mean just
| listen to women complain how they're constantly hounded
| by men no matter what they do).
|
| Also, what about neurodivergent people who may express
| their openness/closedness somewhat differently? Are they
| screwed no matter what?
|
| I won't say you can't do anything to influence your
| approachability, but I really do think there is a very
| large component which is essentially fixed, and people
| rarely acknowledge this (which is annoying).
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Yeah. That's something I constantly worry about. If I'm in a
| random scene, most people don't want a large black man
| approaching them. The calculus completely changes.
|
| That's why I gotta pick my venues. But those venues are
| shrinking and growing farther apart.
| abcde666777 wrote:
| I went through a phase where I forced myself to socialise a lot
| to overcome social awkwardness and anxiety. Was well worth it,
| both in terms of leveling up my social skills but also in terms
| of eventually becoming very comfortable with myself.
|
| The main ingredient, at least for me, was being determined enough
| to push through the discomfort. A lot of the early interactions
| were awkward, sometimes overtly uncomfortable, but that's an
| unavoidable part of the learning process (and I took a key lesson
| from it - it's okay to look like a dork, usually it's only our
| inner critic that turns it into an immortal sin).
|
| Nowadays I feel a pang of sympathy when I see someone feeling shy
| or speaking in self-deprecating terms. I remember how that felt,
| and I remember how easy it would have been to have stayed inside
| that box for the rest of my life.
|
| Glad I didn't.
| jadtz wrote:
| I am still at the awkward early interaction stage.
|
| How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the
| conversation but I don't know where to take it after. How are
| you able to shift to the next stage when you have both agreed
| that the weather today is nice.
|
| How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their
| time?
|
| Finally, how do you end the conversation when you're still
| going in the same direction or waiting at the same place?
| alfyboy wrote:
| Honestly, it doesn't really matter what you say. It's mostly
| about body language and not seeming like a threat (smile).
| You can talk about whatever. Tell them about a movie you just
| saw and ask them about recommendations. Ask them for
| restaurant or dinner suggestions. Tell them about that
| article you just read which you found intereting.
|
| If they are open to small talk, they will drop some tidbits
| that you can spring off on. Conversation is a two way street.
| If they don't seem interested in keeping the conversation
| going, tell them to have a nice day and carry on with yours.
| bonesss wrote:
| Those forced conversations have a shelf-life because they're
| artificial.
|
| Note, rather, how friends converse and how little scripting
| is involved. When two good friends meet they don't say their
| profession, or academic rank, or ask interrogatory questions.
| They exchange enthusiasm for each others presence and the
| conversation tends towards exchanges of
| perspective/experience and reflection thereof. Statement,
| vibes, counter-statement(?), more vibes.
|
| That kind of familiar, friendly, approach to conversation is
| always available and short circuits the scripts. It
| efficiently probes for people who want to talk and what they
| want to talk about. It also tends to involve a lot of dumb-
| yet-charming assertions about the current situation, which
| takes awareness not planning. A 'sense' of humour, not a
| tight 5 locked and loaded. " _Fuck, now that's a lineup..._ "
| isn't a refined piece of social engineering, but it's a
| serviceable conversation starter and the least important part
| if you're still talking three hours later.
| jdthedisciple wrote:
| I find myself wondering about these exact questions from time
| to time.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Myself, I tend to ask with open question, a good ice breaker
| is: "Hey mate, hows your day going on a scale of 1-10?"
|
| That gives them a chance to take a break and think. If they
| say three, you put yourself in their shoes. "Hey, that sucks.
| what's going on?" just lending a warm comforting subtle "I'm
| around right now if you want to talk"
|
| If they give you a higher number, inquire why. "Wow, a 7?
| That's great. How come?" Both results in giving them option
| to speak. You compliment in both situations, a win win. If
| they return with a single closing statement acknowledge it
| and move on, "all the best".
|
| If you need to end, a simple of "hey, it was great talking.
| I've got my coffee it was a pleasure talking to you while I
| waited, I've got to take off but it was a pleasure to talk".
|
| You cater it to the situation you're in. If they want to talk
| then they will, if they don't then they won't.
| casion wrote:
| You've created problems that don't exist. They're concerns
| that most people don't have.
|
| You don't know what to say. That's fine.
|
| You might be wasting their time. That's fine.
|
| You might not know how to end the conversation. That's fine.
|
| It's ok to be awkward. It's ok to be honest. It's ok to
| bother people as long as you take their feedback
| appropriately. It's ok to walk away without saying anything.
|
| The more often that you talk to people and actively reflect
| on the REAL outcomes of it, the sooner you'll realize those
| concerns aren't shared by most other people.
| rammy1234 wrote:
| I always start a convo with a question, " what is exciting in
| your life?" - it brings out good things out of people and
| positivity to the conversation that is following... It brings in
| perspective. My past leader once said, "understand the people
| first before you start to work with them"... it is what I believe
| is missing.. trying to learn about people around us and sometimes
| taking a chance and strike a conversation with a stranger.. we
| will learn a great deal even from a small talk..
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >I always start a convo with a question, " what is exciting in
| your life?"
|
| Sadly, nothing. Stuck on 2 part time jobs, I see more layoffs
| than job posts, I'm about to be soft evicted from my current
| dwelling, and my country decided to start yet another needless
| war.
|
| That question works in good times in a high trust society. Now
| it just reminds you how little there is to look forward to.
| arcxi wrote:
| The solution to social anxiety suggested in the article boils
| down to "just stop being anxious".
|
| I'm glad for people who don't struggle with this, I just wish
| they would be more empathetic.
| mnewme wrote:
| It is sad how so many tech people try to avoid every form of
| social contact and even try to build a society around it (just
| look at meta)
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| It's been profitable for them. I hate it, but I can't blame
| them. They sacrificed their social lives studying for years to
| get to that point.
| bragh wrote:
| Say what? Technology has been awesome, it pretty much
| eliminates the risk in social interactions. With Internet, you
| are not forced to be part of a community you have no interest
| in and who do not like you anyway because of your interests,
| but you can choose and pick your own community. And the same
| goes for dating apps, they help completely derisk the initial
| approach and as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, risk of
| being seen as a creep.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| My problem is that most people have very little to add to my
| life.
| bahmboo wrote:
| Glad to see this here. Age-wise I'm in the oldest 10% of users
| here, maybe 5%. I have noticed over the years the eroding of the
| ability of young people (20s basically) to interact in what I
| consider normal social situations.
|
| Talking to your fellow humans in all sorts of situations is how
| you can form actual knowledge within yourself derived from direct
| observation. Everything else is a filter and synthesis. How can
| you know "reality" if you don't interact with it directly?
| abcde666777 wrote:
| I'm 39 myself but it's disturbing how you don't even see kids
| playing out in the street nowadays - a lot of them are indoors
| on ipads and the like. I knew all the kids on my block and it
| was regular to ring each other's doorbells so we could go out
| and play, which is basically early social skills.
| bbarn wrote:
| If anyone doesn't know where to start - start in places you're
| stuck next to people. Like in line to check out at the grocery
| store. I have struck up dozens of conversations looking at the
| belt and guessing what they're making for dinner. People who like
| to cook love to talk about cooking.
| jmye wrote:
| And it's less threatening - there's a defined end-point for
| people. In like, 2 minutes, they'll never have to see you
| again.
| judevector wrote:
| This is an interesting piece; talking to people will also give
| you a better clarity to things than just keeping it to yourself
| maplethorpe wrote:
| I used to talk to strangers a lot when I was younger. But then I
| started getting older and more scary looking. I developed
| memories of older men making unwanted advances towards me. I
| became horribly afraid of making anyone else feel that way, so I
| stopped.
|
| I know the article's advice is to take a chance, and if I scare
| someone else so be it. But something about that feels wrong to
| me.
| robocat wrote:
| Reaching middle age, as a guy I thought women were more open to
| friendliness. I have always assumed it was the shadow of a safe
| "friendly grandpa" effect. Older men have the opportunity to be
| seen as less intimidating (assuming you don't emit predator
| vibes).
|
| Or perhaps alternately I've learnt over the years to be more
| genuinely friendly.
|
| I've seen men and women attempting to start a friendly
| conversation and have it backfire - because others can tell if
| someone is needy. Sometimes people are desperate for a
| conversation, but they sadly frighten away everyone.
|
| I've also really leant into starting conversations with other
| guys. The stereotype is a bunch of old men yacking about
| "boring" stuff, and you can totally just accept that and have
| fun talking about anything. It's only boring if you lack the
| wit to discern something interesting within a conversation.
|
| There's also an art to looking approachable, so that others can
| initiate a conversation with you. I am not skilled at it, but I
| recognize it. Or alternatively recognizing when someone is open
| to having a conversation started.
| anonzzzies wrote:
| I talk to everyone and anyone; it's really great actually. Been
| doing that all over the world for most of my life (50+). Most
| people enjoy it; many are lonely and I often end up at parties /
| dinners etc at complete strangers.
| cal_dent wrote:
| >"the biggest excuse"
|
| Most important line in this article. People will always find an
| excuse (and i'm including myself in this at times) but that is
| all it is, an excuse. Talking to people is what makes us human
| and its innate. You might not be the best conversationalist or
| whatever but you can still talk to people, no need to put any
| pressure on it.
| decasia wrote:
| I had a long conversation with a fellow parent sitting next to me
| at soccer practice today. Never met her before in my life, but we
| just started chatting about soccer logistics, and then I just
| started asking her about her life. I learned about her 5 kids,
| her tough relationship situation with her spouse of 16 years, her
| having moved here from Arkansas as a child, her feelings about
| how gentrification damaging local communities, her dream of
| moving out of the USA to another country, how there are the same
| kinds of social problems most places, how we can come to
| empathize more with our parents as we get older, and probably
| more things too I'm not remembering. These are the kinds of
| things you can talk about if you happen to have good rapport with
| someone and they feel like it...
|
| I won't say I have conversations with strangers like that all the
| time, but it is 100% possible, and a lot of people really do
| appreciate it if you bother to talk to them. People often like
| being asked about themselves (I used to do cultural anthropology
| research so I have had quite a bit of practice too...).
|
| There are of course reasons why it doesn't always work or becomes
| awkward. For example, gender is a factor - a significant part of
| the population is much more comfortable having same-sex
| conversations with strangers - not to mention other sociological
| factors around race, class, nationality, all the obvious things.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| I've had to force myself to be more social in some instances in
| order to set an example, specifically for my niece who has/had
| quite a bit of social anxiety. Being a regular at the local
| Friday night rollerskating, I got to know quite a few of the
| other regulars, including younger ones my niece's age, and was
| able to kind of slowly break down the social anxiety barrier such
| that my niece is now part of this group of (now) late teens /
| early 20's "kids" and their social group just seems to keep
| growing. Seeing my niece able to be comfortably herself with
| these peers just makes me feel good in the small part I was able
| to play.
|
| People, in most part, are good. Some are really quite lovely such
| that it reminds me of Bilbo's birthday speech:
|
| "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I
| like less than half of you half as well as you deserve"
| agnishom wrote:
| I recommend the book "The Fine Art of Small Talk".
|
| TLDR: Small talk seems to be of trivial importance and to require
| minimal effort. Neither of this is true. Therefore, there is no
| shame in cultivating one's smalltalk muscle and being more
| prepared for it
| cal_dent wrote:
| Also, one thing not mentioned in the article is that,
| structurally, some of this is a consequence of a growing sense
| that we live in a low trust society. I don't necessarily think
| that is true in the small/local sense for many people, but a lot
| of the media we consume and talk about highlights that so much of
| society is untrustworthy and that forces many people to close
| themselves up as a completely rational way of protecting
| themselves.
|
| I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that,
| there is so much good out there in the world and we all have to
| engage it or we're just letting the low trust side win and life
| becomes a lot less because of that. Everyone already into
| chatting for chatting sake now and then, please continue to do
| so. You're doing a world a huge service. The rest not, come join
| us, the water feels great!
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >some of this is a consequence of a growing sense that we live
| in a low trust society.
|
| Exactly. YMMV but that is 100% true in many urban areas. Too
| many people leads to less meaningful connections. I imagine
| much of this community lies in those urban hotspots.
|
| >I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that
|
| it's going to continue. Low trust societies are a structural
| issue, and I see little initiative to fix it. People constantly
| need to move around due to rising costs of living, there's no
| commmunity hubs, third places, frequently meeting clubs, etc.
| to build such community. Work hours are creeping up while
| compensation and stability is going down. Where would you find
| the time to meet up?
|
| It's all an economic issue at the end of the day. There's a
| part of the equation where we don't "need" to work with as many
| people anymore to get by. But for he most part, it's very
| similar to the walk-ability issue in the US. There won't be
| some mass change all at once, but people take cues and change
| heir habits around heir environment.
|
| For my environment, I'm a night owl and everything in my town
| is closed by 8pm or so. I don't like the loud environments of
| bars. So there's nowhere for me to really go.
| cal_dent wrote:
| I hope you're wrong and I think you're being a little
| defeatist in the assessment of "Little initiative to fix it".
| But to each is own. From the communities have stayed in, in
| different places around the world, I find that is not the
| case and there is still a high trust society in place
| locally. It's everywhere else outside that that people tend
| to view as low trust. I always end up thinking to myself that
| but there's no true way to actually know that everywhere else
| is low trust when you're not actually there, they're just
| fighting shadows.
|
| A very particular case is London, which if you live on the
| internet you would think is some sort of hellscape where
| everyone is going to stab you or steal your phone on a bike
| if you dont run between safe spot to safe spot with eyes on
| your bike. But I've lived there for many years, still have
| friends there and visit regularly and that is so far from
| daily life that it is bizarrely amusing that people think
| that
| spaqin wrote:
| Low trust is easier to sell for, to try to fill in the hole you
| might have without enough meaningful social interactions; it's
| easier to market when you don't have anyone in your close
| circle to talk you out of spending money unnecessarily. It's
| easier to manipulate when you don't have enough contacts with
| others to band together against a common enemy.
|
| The dangers of daily life, while real in some way, have been
| over-represented in the media, and now we're given the tools to
| completely avoid them. Whether on purpose or not (bad news sell
| much better than good news, after all), these are the
| consequences we're just seeing.
| zingababba wrote:
| Here's my life hack: Caffeine makes my verbal fluency suck so I
| enter a self-reinforcing cycle of not wanting to talk to people.
| Nicotine makes my verbal fluency not suck so I naturally want to
| talk to people.
|
| Because of this I do nicotine. Is this healthy? Probably not.
| jjcm wrote:
| There's some solid advice in here - especially around
| performative interactions vs genuine.
|
| I was someone who was raised home schooled and it really altered
| my ability to communicate with my peers, which was something I
| had to really work on later in life. It surprises most people who
| know me when I tell them this, as I'm a pretty outgoing /
| gregarious person these days. It was a deliberate choice on my
| part, and I likely overindexed on it, leading to me now being
| highly social.
|
| For those looking to do the same, I'll offer my own advice: how
| you engage socially depends on how large the audience is.
|
| Small audiences (1-2 people):
|
| If you don't know them: your goal should be to get them to smile
| without feeling threatened. A lot of people fail at that last
| part. Don't give someone a compliment like, "I like your pants"
| out of the blue - it may threaten them that you have alterior
| motives ("Are they attracted to me?", "Do they just like how my
| butt looks in these pants?"). Reframe compliments in a way that
| isn't threatening - ask them something instead like, "Hey weird
| question, but can I ask what brand those pants are? I want to get
| my sibling a birthday present and I think they'd really like
| those". It shows you see them as positive without it being a
| threatening interaction.
|
| If you do know them: your goal should be to be interested in what
| they are saying. Find the topic that will stimulate your mind /
| get you excited to hear them talk more about it. Don't just
| gamify it and try to get them to talk more than you talk; that's
| an easy way to make yourself not look genuine. Dig and find gold
| - everyone has somethinig cool to say, it's your job to find
| that.
|
| Medium audiences (3-8 people):
|
| Be the facilitator. Don't butt in to get your own voice heard,
| butt in to segue to others who haven't had their voice heard.
| "Omg thats crazy X, hey Y you recently had something similar
| happen right?". Keep the flow going. Your goal should be to make
| everyone else feel like they've found gold in the conversation
| with new and interesting nuggest on a regular basis.
|
| Large audiences (9-30 people):
|
| These are basically meetings, and are the worst possible social
| interaction. Your goal should be to make these as smooth as
| possible and end them quickly so you can break to smaller sizes.
| Present facts clearly without emotion, keep things on topic so
| you can move past them.
|
| Presentations (30+ people):
|
| With this size you do the reverse of the prior size - the facts
| don't matter at all. Your goal should be to present _emotions_ ,
| not facts. Don't tell people what the % YoY growth is. Control
| how they should _feel_ about the % YoY growth. This is the
| biggest #1 failure I see from inexperienced presenters - they aim
| to just present the info. People can read the info later - convey
| to them the emotion they should take away from the data. On every
| slide you have you should have a goal emotion, and you should
| reflect that emotion in your presentation. Look at any great
| presenter and you 'll notice the same - they have the audience's
| emotions in their hands.
| abhaynayar wrote:
| Interesting, because I've been thinking about group sizes and
| their effects on social dynamics.
|
| However, I guess it depends on the goal? Like in medium
| audiences, WHY be the facilitator for others? I mean it's a
| good thing to do if there's such a person or maybe if you're
| the host, etc. But in my opinion in most cases the point is to
| contribute to the conversation.
|
| For large/presentations- fact versus emotion thing seems
| arbitrary. In most "social" situations emotions triumph
| regardless of size. But again there are factors other than size
| that would factor more into this. I don't disagree with
| anything- more like all of it could go either way and it's
| fine.
| hoppp wrote:
| I have autism so talking with people can get difficult as we have
| different communication styles and message decoding systems.
|
| Even when people seem nice I generally keep a distance as I have
| to analyse them slowly instead of relying on social cues. I do
| pick up cues but processing them is not subconscious. My
| subconscious is not as generative and acts more like a buffer for
| conversation, so all the talking I do subconsciously has to be
| placed there beforehand instead of generating it with
| subconscious heuristics.
| lemoing wrote:
| I'm wrapping up a 4 month stint at a fancy hotel working as a
| valet attendant. My job responsibilities as written were parking
| cars and helping with bags, but the unspoken expectation was that
| I also greet everyone who passed by my desk. These conversations
| are all low stakes but make such a difference in my day, and I
| think the article hits it on the head when they say it doesn't
| have to be groundbreaking to be beneficial. The hard part is
| going to be continuing the habit when I'm not getting paid for
| it.
| legerdemain wrote:
| I'm at Paris Baguette, a Korean lower-end coffee shop chain
| common in the Bay Area. The guy next to me has headphones on and
| his laptop on a stand. Or it's four middle-aged Latino women
| celebrating a birthday. Or it's a bunch of local high-school
| kids.
|
| Do I lean over and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? Really good
| coffee they have here, huh?"
|
| I'm at the gym. It's a big-box gym. It's full of dudes wearing
| Airpods Max, a few couples in skintight athletic outfits, a few
| teens with phones on tripods filming themselves for Tiktok.
|
| Do I come over, gesture for them to take off their headphones,
| and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? That's really good form, on
| that lift, really good form. Keep it up!"
|
| I'm waiting to cross a road. On the other side of the road is a
| Caltrain crossing. The traffic light cycle takes forever, and
| then the train comes and preempts it. And then preempts it again
| when people finish getting on. A crowd of parents with strollers
| are waiting to cross. People are returning from the farmer's
| market with bags of vegetables. People on bikes.
|
| Do I lean over and say, "Hey, how are you guys all doing? It sure
| takes a while to cross. Wow!"
| fragmede wrote:
| Yes, it's that easy!
| pks016 wrote:
| Goodluck in North America!
|
| Most people are in headphones and give weird looks if you try
| doing small talks. I find it's easier to talk with older people.
| plantain wrote:
| Visited Fiji and stayed in the "locals" area rather than in one
| of the tourist resorts. Everywhere I went, would get stopped by
| locals and asked how my day was going, where I was going, what I
| was up to.
|
| Shamefully my tourist-shields were at maximum after experiences
| in Morocco/Ethiopia and similar, and many people I ignored and
| kept walking as fast as I could.
|
| Eventually I found myself in a conversation I couldn't easily
| escape from and I realised... they're just being friendly. They
| were all just being friendly. I spoke to dozens afterwards and
| had nice little chats, with no motives, no scams, no sales, no
| brothers-uncle's shop that I must visit.
|
| (I did get scammed in the taxi though, by someone who didn't make
| conversation :) )
| b8 wrote:
| I tried this in college, but just got ignored or brushed off.
| est wrote:
| I used to avoid talking to people because it always turns out to
| be an argument
|
| Later I realized this is wrong on my part, talking is all about
| talking, let the vibe continue and don't let it die.
| basilikum wrote:
| The only way to win an argument is to avoid it.
|
| Also let the other person do most of the talking.
| hs586 wrote:
| One of my best stranger conversations talking to a "Big Issue"
| [1] seller outside a supermarket. As I understand, they're (close
| to) homeless usually.
|
| When I asked about him, he mentioned he's Irish but moved on to
| tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm,
| planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description.
| His story was his future.
|
| This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about
| their past, where they're coming from. It was the first time I
| realised that where we're going should be a bigger part of our
| story and identity.
|
| I try to keep that conversation in mind as a lesson, and as a
| reminder to talk to people around.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Issue
| anovikov wrote:
| I think it's mostly the denormalisation of this. Indeed someone
| just randomly striking a conversation with a stranger will come
| across as a psycho or a creep. No one wants to be perceived that
| way.
| dsego wrote:
| Sometimes I want to strike up a conversation but get no reaction
| or even a dismissive glance and get ignored. It feels like the
| universe has a script and I went off track.
| keiferski wrote:
| A tip from a past life working a customer service / food service
| job:
|
| Learn a few words in a variety of languages. They are great
| conversation starters / expanders - I made a lot of actual
| friendships by talking to people (after taking their orders),
| asking them where they're from, and then knowing a few words in
| their language. Nothing makes people happier than hearing someone
| speak their native language, no matter how poorly.
|
| This was in a university town, so knowing a couple words in
| Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, etc. was useful.
| fredrikholm wrote:
| Learning basic Levantine Arabic has brought me more smiles and
| free meals than I can count. It's been deeply healing in
| challenging the negative narratives surrounding these very warm
| people.
| raihansaputra wrote:
| ok it's a bit late but i think a big part is the non-verbal thing
| you're putting out.
|
| my story is me and my wife moved to another country a few years
| ago for my study. after 4 months moving there, she already know
| and conversed with the people working the apartment and some
| neighbors. while i mostly just exchanged cursories and nods and
| glances. then one day we just walked out together and the same
| people i passed earlier just says hello and converse and stuff
| with my wife and me. yes she's very much an extrovert but i can
| see people are way 'more open' and my wife has that too. me on
| the other hand do have 'i don't want to bother you so please
| don't bother me' vibe.
| ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote:
| I hate it when strangers try to talk to me in public (e.g., on
| public transportation, at work). I absolutely do not care what
| you have to say, what you do, how your day went, how many pets
| you have, what your hobbies are, or where you spent your
| holidays, and at the same time, in no way do I want to share any
| details about my life, not out of privacy or anxiety of speaking
| but out of sheer annoyance and indifference. However, most of the
| time I do not want to insult the person that tries to talk to me
| in any way, so I just stay silent and try to endure this
| torturous assault until I find a suitable moment to get away.
| basilikum wrote:
| People should try to sense when someone wants to get left alone
| and leave them alone. I don't know how much you communicate
| that and misunderstandings do happen. Anyway regardless of
| whether someone just doesn't get that you don't feel like
| talking or whether they do not care, when just giving short
| direct answers to questions that only maintain the minimum
| level of friendliness does not work to get someone to stop
| talking to you you are doing both of you a favor by directly,
| but politely telling them that you do not feel like talking
| right now.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I had a colleague (now friend :D) whose dad was a manager for a
| company, he taught him to talk to anyone so he's got a number of
| conversation starters / makers. I mean I (think I) can tell it's
| a very active intellectual process for him, like it's not natural
| and he's analysing responses and storing them and the like
| constantly, but he's doing it and it makes him a great asset. I
| don't think he aspires any leadership positions - conversations
| cost him energy and he likes to write code, after all - but he
| has the techniques for it.
| tmvnty wrote:
| "how to listen to anyone"
| beaker52 wrote:
| The other day I saw a guy on the train looking at pictures he was
| actively receiving of a topless woman. He was clearly enjoying
| it, in his own little world, so I leaned over and said "don't get
| scammed buddy".
|
| His anger brewed for a few minutes and he decided he wanted to
| fight me, so he menacingly stood up. I remained seated and told
| him to sit down. He ended up grabbing me by the throat, while no-
| one around did a thing to stop him.
|
| It's made me think twice about interacting with random people,
| tits or no tits. But I doubt I'll learn anything from it and
| continue with reckless abandon, because life is mundane
| otherwise.
| pingou wrote:
| This is quite entertaining and I'm glad there are people like
| you, but you didn't even think it would be inappropriate to
| comment on a naked picture that someone receives in a private
| conversation? I don't even think you were supposed to look at
| his phone.
| beaker52 wrote:
| Yeah, you see, I don't think you've quite understood the art
| of talking to anyone. It doesn't happen by staring at the
| floor and minding your own business. Quite the opposite,
| mostly.
|
| Despite illusions and every misguided attempt, when in
| public, you're not actually in an impenetrable little bubble.
| And when your bubble bursts, you can laugh, or get angry. I
| recommend choosing laughter because it's easier on the eyes.
| pingou wrote:
| I would say mastering the art of talking to anyone includes
| having a good mental model of what the other person thinks
| or how they would react.
|
| It can be delightful to be surprised, but if you are
| surprised all the time then I would say something may be
| wrong in the way you see the world.
|
| Nowhere did I say that people should mind their own
| business at all time. You cannot imagine a situation where
| you shouldn't talk to a person? You feel entitled to look
| at their phone? Is there no social boundary you respect?
| You are free to not respect them, but you can't hardly be
| surprised to experience pushback. Again, I like that people
| like you exist, I hope I don't come as too aggressive.
| beaker52 wrote:
| I was not interested in his phone until my eyes were
| drawn to the image of some great big jubbly boobies
| staring back at me.
|
| I'm sure you've encountered the phenomenon of noticing
| something unusual within your line of sight.
|
| If you're going to engage with such content in public
| with such disregard that others' gaze may be drawn to it,
| then you deserve to receive whatever wisdom or drivel may
| spill from those onlookers lips.
|
| And you're right, there is nothing stopping anyone from
| talking to me. I accept their intrusion into my space as
| a peril of being in public. If you climb through my
| window to speak to me, that is a different matter.
| closewith wrote:
| > Yeah, you see, I don't think you've quite understood the
| art of talking to anyone.
|
| Well, mastering the art of talking to anyone involves being
| able to initiate a conversation with people of many
| cultures, in many mental states, in many circumstances.
|
| A master of talking to anyone won't begin with a
| condescending and invasive comment, as they will recognise
| that beginning a conversation disrespectfully is unlikely
| to be received warmly.
| beaker52 wrote:
| You're being condescending and invading my space, now
| fuck off.
|
| Am I doing it right?
|
| No. That's responding with aggression, to an otherwise
| placid comment.
|
| I posit that you would be better off practicing being
| less offended and stuck up your own arse, and learning to
| live a little.
| rafaelero wrote:
| I like you.
| beaker52 wrote:
| Wanna get married?
|
| (Ah man, I've done it again. Please don't hurt me, for
| intruding on your personal circumstances with my mouth
| sounds and finger symbols)
| nindalf wrote:
| > Yeah, you see, I don't think you've quite understood the
| art of talking to anyone
|
| Have you? You're dripping with condescension for everyone
| who's replied to you so far, in addition to the guy in your
| anecdote. You've asked one person to "fuck off" when they
| were polite. Do you think closewith or pingou have enjoyed
| their interaction with you?
|
| Or is your art of talking to people just meant to amuse you
| and ignore the feelings of others?
|
| By the way, there is a social convention that we refrain
| from commenting on what's on people's phones even though we
| can see it. It's considered an invasion of privacy if we
| do.
| closewith wrote:
| Involving yourself by commenting on very personal matters,
| especially in a smug or condescending manner, is almost
| guaranteed to end badly.
| beaker52 wrote:
| Losing one's temper leads things to end badly.
| closewith wrote:
| Losing your temper when a serious boundary has been crossed
| is natural and expected. It had a positive outcome in that
| it stopped your bad behaviour immediately.
|
| > He ended up grabbing me by the throat, while no-one
| around did a thing to stop him.
|
| The bystander effect is real, but you should also take this
| opportunity for self-reflection, because in this case, you
| were the person behaving badly who instigated the
| situation.
|
| > But I doubt I'll learn anything from it
|
| Yes, unfortunately it seems unlikely you will.
| beaker52 wrote:
| Serious boundary? He put tits in front of my eyes. Am I
| supposed to remember to keep my eyes pinned to the floor
| when out in public? What a terrible way you must live.
|
| I'm afraid to say, that if you want a boundary, go home.
| Otherwise, accept that you're in public, and people can
| and will speak to you.
|
| Also, you've just justified being violent in response to
| someone making sounds with their mouth. I bet you're a
| calm person to be around, when everyone does what you
| want.
| awesomeMilou wrote:
| No verbal comment, be it a comment or an actual insult or
| otherwise, justifies violence and crossing the body
| threshold. In what world do you live?
| closewith wrote:
| In the real world, many comments can and will provoke
| violence. In many cases, it's justifiable.
|
| > In what world do you live?
|
| In what bubble do you live? Go out into the world and
| behave like the GP. Your apparent mental model of society
| will collapse quickly.
| pmg101 wrote:
| I do look forward to being an older person because at a certain
| age I do feel society gives you carte blanche to talk to anybody.
| szmarczak wrote:
| The irony of this being behind a paywall. People want to milk
| money on everything.
| weatherlite wrote:
| I don't know. The idea is old and looks solid but the more I
| think about it the more I don't buy it; people have less good
| friends. Many people are estranged from family. Many people
| barely say hello to their neighbors. Maybe we should expend our
| limited energy on the people we do know instead of strangers
| waiting for the bus. For me starting something with a complete
| stranger is draining; I need to overcome a psychological barrier
| (that's probably there for a good reason); so the risk is there.
| The reward ? I'm not sure. Some interactions could be fun, many
| could be boring and draining. Sure I could get better at this
| skill of talking to strangers with lots of struggle but the end
| game isn't really clear, it's not gonna flip my personality into
| a charismatic stranger lover. I could use the time to quietly
| stare at space or call my mom instead.
| mcluck wrote:
| I think you're missing the part where interacting with
| strangers is also working the general socialization muscle. If
| you find yourself being more social in general, and give
| yourself the time to recharge, then you'll be better equipped
| to engage with those closest to you. You may even get lucky and
| add someone else to that circle
| weatherlite wrote:
| Yeah that's actualy part of my issue with this - socializing
| isn't super easy for me. It takes energy. Instead of
| "practicing" this muscle, I can simply use this skill on the
| people I'm supposed to use it on anyway - family, colleagues,
| friends etc. Instead of trying to get the person next to me
| waiting for the bus to talk to me I can call my best friend
| who I hadn't talked to in a month or more. I see no point in
| practicing with complete strangers. But you know what, I'm
| 41, about to turn 42, perhaps my priorities aren't the same
| as young people still building their personalities. There
| could be real value in being less shy and not fearing
| rejection so much; however I would say - find a good venue. I
| don't think New York subway is the bests place to start
| practicing this...
| boilerupnc wrote:
| My personal philosophy has always been that "everyone has at
| least ONE good story to share." Everyone. Best way to discover
| these gems is to talk with anyone as when the mood suits you. I'm
| a richer person for the stories that I've been honored to hear.
| rambambram wrote:
| What is also fun is to just say 'hi' or 'hello' to random
| strangers, accompanied by a smile. I usually do that on the
| sidewalk (western Europe), but other places might also be fair
| game. I made an active effort to just greet people, now it's a
| habit. In the beginning I felt rejected sometimes by people
| blankly staring back at me and not saying 'hi' back.
|
| Some people are not into that, don't suspect it or don't know how
| to handle that. Like half of this comment section, I really read
| some cringe comments here about how people don't want to be
| talked to. To them I can only say: don't worry, I see/feel from
| miles away that you don't want to be talked to. And even then, I
| might say 'hi' to you, just to gauge what happens. ;)
|
| For me, it's okay if people don't say anything back. That's not
| even the point. I want to share a little positivity with the
| world (when I'm in the mood) and 90% of reactions are either a
| big smile back, a little nod or even a small conversation.
| There's nothing for me to 'win' (as a lot of commenters seem to
| think is the point); thinking in these terms makes it a business
| transaction.
|
| I found out that especially elderly people are way more open to
| these things. Also, people who don't seem open to it (probably
| going through a bad time) might actually surprise you with a warm
| and welcome smile. These little interactions taught me to not
| judge a book by it's cover, give a little without expecting
| anything in return, and just knowing that you made somebody smile
| who needed that.
|
| So if you think this article is something you want to try, but
| you're a little afraid thinking about whole conversations and
| stuff, just start with greeting random people. Don't see it as a
| transaction, just see it as age old human behavior (which it is).
| If you have a hard time reading social clues, this also might be
| a good way to practice that a bit.
| SyneRyder wrote:
| I wonder if some of this also has to do with the culture of
| where you live, because it can go wrong. It reminds me of a BBC
| comedy skit about someone doing exactly this:
|
| Northerner terrifies Londoners by saying "Hello":
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0ay9u1gg4
|
| I like the sentiment behind what you've said, and I think
| you're especially right about elderly people (probably because
| they don't get much social interaction). I actually had an
| elderly woman come up to me this week to tell me I was standing
| in the wrong place for the bus stop - but it was sad that she
| had to begin by saying "Excuse me, I'm sorry to interrupt, and
| you can tell me if this is none of my business and that you
| want me to go rack off... but I don't think the bus will stop
| here." I tried to be very kind and thankful with my response,
| because that's obviously someone who has been burned by trying
| to be social & helpful, and met with aggression in response
| before.
| tnel77 wrote:
| When I first my met father-in-law in my college days, we ended up
| going to the store to get my wife (then GF) some random supplies.
| I struck up a conversation with a stranger and my FIL asked his
| daughter, "Does he know that guy?" She laughed and replied,
| "Probably not."
| TrianguloY wrote:
| As someone who identifies with the text, a very introverted guy
| that almost never starts a conversation but it's able to maintain
| it once they other person starts it, and as someone who has never
| dated any girl (and failed to do so) I'll just say: almost every
| random person that talks with me...is a man.
|
| It doesn't seems...fair...and, again, says a lot about society.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| says a lot about society
|
| What does it say?
| stackedinserter wrote:
| That society is clearly sick and unwell.
| b40d-48b2-979e wrote:
| Not sure how you get that impression because a guy who's
| never been on a date doesn't initiate conversation with
| women?
| TrianguloY wrote:
| That women feel pressured to be introverted and/or man feel
| pressured to be extroverted. Being the opposite is a
| handicap.
|
| Although, the good part, is that the personality doesn't
| seems to be genetic and doesn't come from your parents
| either, otherwise we would be extinct (literally).
|
| Unfortunately, this situation makes me think about genre
| issues in an different way, not only sort of understanding
| why they happen, but surprised that it's not more common.
| I've met very horrid persons, that have achieve what I
| haven't, just because women doesn't seem to try to see past
| them. Is like they gave up...
| DaedalusII wrote:
| random people wont really talk to you because they have no way
| to evaluate who you are. it is nothing about you, but a
| reflection on society. the stranger is now a danger to women.
| this is what they taught in school too, and internet show them
| that all stranger use aggressive mean pick up artist tactics~
|
| before 1990s there was very little international travel, small
| town everyone know each other, speak english. very little drugs
| and tattoos etc. stranger on the street most likely grew up
| less than a few hundred miles away. very little gun violence
| between strangers. most importantly no stupid pick up artist
| culture.
|
| most blue collar people were only friends with blue collar
| people (not even drink wine), rich people only hang out with
| rich people (beer is for the plebs, only wine for us), and
| class was obvious by your clothes. they judge whether to talk
| to you by haircut , makeup., etc. remember this time many
| people dont even know what an ivy league school is. no
| internet.
|
| now we have open society without judgement or visible
| hierarchies, it is not possible for a stranger to judge you so
| they they will totally avoid you. now you must install apps.
| these are merely a computer algorithm for women to judge men
| (salary, height, SATs, postcode, wealth) and filter
|
| the best way is to join local community groups and form
| friendships over time. but now even these are being used
| aggressively to findd women, like running clubs and climbing
| clubs, so people will be very apprehensive of you. you must
| choose an interest which you genuinely enjoy but requires
| enough specific effort it doesnt end up full of normoids.
| TrianguloY wrote:
| I've joined local groups for anime and videogames, but they
| are mostly anime. Videogames and programming seems to be
| almost exclusively masculine (the stereotypes are there for a
| reason) but the few girls there doesn't seem much different.
|
| Maybe I've had bad luck, maybe I need to search more, but
| still...the situation seems to be similar everywhere.
| cykros wrote:
| I've talked to random people.
|
| Most of them are unbearably boring, and they need to resort to
| alcohol and professional sports just to have anything to talk
| about in the first place.
|
| Bring up ECDSA and suddenly you may as well have just beamed down
| from a spaceship.
| jadenzaleski wrote:
| This is the funniest thing I have heard all day today thank you
| for this.
| DarkNova6 wrote:
| Yeah... it's difficult enough to find engaging conversations
| with people I do know. If you want to talk for the sake of
| talking, there won't be a shortage of possibilities. And if you
| are sociable enough, people will do so.
|
| But outside of these parameters? It's very slim picking.
| maplant wrote:
| Talk about Poe's law.
|
| I know what ECDSA is and if you brought it up in a random
| conversation unprompted I'd try to find your spaceship so I
| could escape the conversation on it.
| vibedev wrote:
| Would making it less random works? Like declaring your
| preferred topic or at least screen your audience based on their
| drinking habits.
| vibedev wrote:
| Lol is this why you have thought about mentioning it?
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214367
| monster_truck wrote:
| I've always done this. Used to drive my mom nuts at the grocery
| store just asking people random shit about the stuff they're
| buying. Have lived all over the US in various downtowns. You can
| learn so much about a city, what's actually good there, just by
| asking everyone you can.
|
| Unsure of what a lot of people in this thread are talking about,
| they have been misled into believing some very antisocial things
| and do not seem pleasant. Perhaps it is best they stay inside and
| do not talk to anyone.
|
| I am not an old british lady or a 7ft tall underwear model / pro
| athlete, I'm just some dude. The closest thing to a change I've
| experienced is having to be more proactive about smiling or
| demonstrating that I am not what others have very legitimate
| cause to fear as of recent. That sucks a lot and makes me quite
| sad.
|
| Not saying bad things don't happen, but I've certainly never
| worried about violence up until recently. Unspoken social
| contracts are being broken by people who have not considered the
| consequences, my heart breaks for them and what will have to
| happen next.
|
| The world is much smaller than you realize. If 90% of everyone
| was crooks or criminals, you would not be posting that shit right
| now, because you would not be alive. They don't do that because
| it's bad for business. A lot of what is happening right now is
| predicated on the concept of there being some amount of business
| that is okay to lose in exchange for... problematic ideals.
| Business will win
| mnort9 wrote:
| Ask questions.
|
| Something I learned from being around a few outgoing friends over
| the years, the easiest way to start a conversation is to ask
| questions. Even if you already know the answer, it breaks the ice
| and let's them do the talking. Don't know what to say next? Ask
| another question.
| andresquez wrote:
| One of the best pieces of advice I can give, something that has
| helped me start talking more with strangers, is this:
|
| When I'm speaking to someone in a service role, like a waiter, a
| cashier, or a salesperson, I remind myself that I'm just one of
| hundreds of people they interact with that day. To them, I'm
| simply another brief interaction. So if I say something awkward
| or if the conversation doesn't flow perfectly, it's not a big
| deal. It's probably just one small, forgettable moment in a long
| series of conversations they will have that day.
|
| Thinking about it that way helps me relax and not put so much
| pressure on myself. At the same time, some of the most meaningful
| or unexpected opportunities can come from simple conversations
| with strangers. You never really know what a small interaction
| might lead to, whether it is a new connection, a new perspective,
| or even an open door you did not see before.
| Balgair wrote:
| One tip for the introverts out there:
|
| When the service worker and you do the back and forth of "How
| are you doing today" - "Fine, you?" - "Fine"
|
| Yeah don't do that, try out this phrase "It's my Monday" [0]
| instead of "Fine, you?"
|
| You'll typically have them telling you what day of their work
| week they are in which is not usually the actual day of the
| week! Because managers schedule people in service positions in
| wacky ways.
|
| That little bit of human connection around labor and work, man
| it does wonders. They know you know what it's like, that you
| see them as a person, and you care a little bit. Really gets
| the conversation going if there isn't too much of a line.
|
| [0] Use any day of the week, but do use a weekday. Monday or
| Friday works best though.
| stackedinserter wrote:
| Smoking used to be a very effective social interaction catalyzer
| back in my young days.
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| It still is. I gave up for 15 years, and just the last two
| years i have been smoking. In these last two years, I've met a
| lot of people in my company out in the smoker's den, and quite
| a few of them are really interesting people.
| weirdkid wrote:
| I no longer smoke as a habit, but when I have to travel solo
| (like for work) I sometimes will buy a pack just so I have an
| excuse to strike up a conversation with other humans without
| being called a creep or weirdo. "Hey, you got a light? What
| brand you smoking? How are you liking the conference so far?"
| NoSalt wrote:
| > _" As we walked home, my 15-year-old son asked: "Is it OK to
| talk to people in that way?" "What way?" He was asking about the
| boundaries when it comes to talking to someone about their home
| country."_
|
| My 13 year old is the opposite. He is always telling me that I
| talk too much to "strangers" and that "people don't to that". I'm
| assuming he means his peers.
| OpenWaygate wrote:
| WFH for half a year, I think I need to go out more and network
| more.
| cbdevidal wrote:
| This advice has the potential soothe political rift. I rarely see
| anymore two people on opposite sides having a calm discussion of
| facts such as Krystal and Saagar often do. We need more of that.
| Dehumanizing the other side has costs.
| vibedev wrote:
| I would imagine a common goal could alleviate the resistancy?
| Talking while jogging or doing shoot-out at a basketball court
| sounds like a good way to fill in that small gap in between
| actions.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| I'm kind of a misnthrope. I don't know my neighbors and I don't
| want to. I bought my current house in part because it has a fence
| around it. I wear earbuds in the store so random people don't try
| to talk to me (I'm also tall so I get people asking me to get
| things down for them somewhat often). I teach college so I guess
| I get enough interaction with strangers from having new students
| every semester.
| basilikum wrote:
| Yet you felt the need to write exactly that to no one but total
| strangers on the internet without getting anything immediately
| out of it other than other people reading it.
| catigula wrote:
| I absolutely don't want random strangers talking to me and I
| cannot be alone.
| agcat wrote:
| This is a really good post
| matparker24 wrote:
| I don't know if anyone follows Jefferson Fisher on ig but his
| content on how to communicate has always resonated with me as
| someone who struggles with meeting new people. It's been
| especially helpful since I've recently moved to a new city.
| lrakster wrote:
| I found New England particularly difficult in this regard. Even
| my neighbors don't want to talk. But, I love this thread. It is
| so fun to bump into a person and share life for a few minutes.
| For me, if I'm busy and stressed I don't do this so a lot of it
| is about my own headspace.
| temp-thrw-999 wrote:
| I am anonymously writing this because it is a strange outcome of
| talking to someone by making an effort to do so. I never intended
| anything when I made an effort to speak with a girl , but to my
| surprise it ended up with an offer to meet and an invitation for
| more !! I never thought it would happen to me because I am
| neither good looking or handsome kinds.
| wwalker2112 wrote:
| One thing I've done to improve my communication with strangers is
| to stop trying to think of the perfect way to start a
| conversation or question.
|
| Some of the best conversations I've had started by me asking or
| telling someone something in a awkward or overly simplified way
| at first. It takes the pressure off of both of you and a more
| natural conversation takes place as you both work to get on the
| same page, which takes time and leads to more conversation.
|
| In the past I'd think of the perfect sentence with little nuances
| and edge cases covered in that sentence to what I was trying to
| convey, which would result in no real conversation to even take
| place.
|
| Of course you will run into people who are unfriendly and won't
| receive this well but overall it's lead to more pleasant and
| natural conversations.
| keeda wrote:
| _> Talking with strangers is surprisingly informative_
|
| I think this should be a key point here, for people motivated by
| curiosity. I don't seek out conversations with strangers, but
| when they happen I lean heavily into this aspect.
|
| My pro-tip for talking to strangers is to talk about _them_ ; ask
| where they're from, what they do, how their job works, and so
| on... They are usually more than happy to carry the conversation,
| they feel like they're being appreciated for being interesting,
| and you learn so much.
|
| As a throwaway example, I found out from someone at a bar that
| composing music specifically for movie trailers is a business in
| itself, and the creators do not even know what movie or what
| trailer their music will be used for. They get direction, they
| deliver the music, and usually only find out when the trailer is
| released. Isn't that interesting?
|
| And if they ask about you, even easier, you get to feel
| interesting instead!
|
| I was always very uncomfortable socializing growing up and still
| am, but just like with anything, it gets easier with practice.
| (Alcohol helps too, if that's an option!)
| KolmogorovComp wrote:
| I've been subconsciously doing this forever and after hundreds if
| no thousands of interaction have lately been assessing its
| outcome as more neutral than the article frames it. On the long
| run while mildly pleasant, you realise how shallow these
| conversations are and they have not brought anything valuable to
| your life. Maybe stopping for a while would lead to further
| realisation but I don't think so.
|
| The most positive effect it has had on me is to make me enjoy
| even more deep conversations with my friends.
| Vibeguy900 wrote:
| I have always found it helpful to try and put yourself in the
| other person's shoes to look at the situation. makes it easier to
| connect IMO
| m463 wrote:
| I think people also overlook opportunities to talk... at their
| peril.
|
| I remember going to a motel (they actually had cabins) to reserve
| a place for relatives coming into town. The owner was a nice guy,
| and he ran the whole place himself.
|
| I took the girlfriend with me, drove over and we walked over to
| talk to him. As I started the conversation, you could see he took
| pride in his place and he was a garrulous guy with sort of a
| twinkle in his eye.
|
| "How much will this cost?!" the girlfriend blurted out.
|
| All of a sudden the blossoming conversation ground to a halt, as
| he put his hand on the back of his neck and started thinking
| about what a cheap room would go for.
|
| We talked about it later, sort of like "I think we were all
| starting to form a relationship at the start of the conversation,
| and we lost an opportunity"
|
| I think all of us have these opportunities to form a relationship
| with lots of people we interact with every day, and we can allow
| it or deny it.
| aeternum wrote:
| Ok but can we have another post on how to subtly signal that you
| do not want to be talked to?
| throwyawayyyy wrote:
| I've rather assumed this is half the use of airpods.
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