[HN Gopher] Setting up phones is a nightmare
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Setting up phones is a nightmare
        
       Author : bariumbitmap
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2026-02-26 19:36 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (joelchrono.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (joelchrono.xyz)
        
       | addaon wrote:
       | The article is about how setting up /Android/ phones is a
       | nightmare.
       | 
       | Contrasting it to my experience setting up iPhones is...
       | dramatic.
        
         | DiabloD3 wrote:
         | Yes, its a nightmare because Android is becoming more and more
         | like iOS: anything that the user used to be able to do... they
         | can no longer do.
         | 
         | Android phone manufacturers want $1200 for something that is a
         | toy, just like the Apple iToys.
         | 
         | Nobody wants those, and nobody wants this. Google needs to get
         | out of the business and let the FOSS community handle it.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | That type of rhetoric won't get you what you want. Don't
           | dismiss something just because you don't like it.
           | 
           | iOS devices are not toys, and even if they were there is
           | value in toys, and even if there weren't it is provably false
           | that "nobody wants those".
           | 
           | Furthermore, if Google dropped Android it is misguided to
           | believe "the FOSS community" would handle it and everything
           | would be roses. What you'd have then are a couple of hardware
           | vendors (like Samsung) publishing their own forks and dozens
           | of different incompatible open-source versions that would get
           | no traction.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | > iOS devices are not toys
             | 
             | iOS devices are. My iPad is the most useless piece of
             | technology I own, calling it a "computer" is an insult to
             | the actual computers I own. It's a toy, and not even a fun
             | toy compared to my Nintendo Switch.
             | 
             | Android handles serious workloads fine, macOS takes
             | software seriously. iOS is the only operating system that
             | treats gatchapon as the pinnacle of high-performance
             | workloads.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Hell, I'll double-down if you really disagree with me.
               | ChromeOS, the operating system/spyware installed on
               | e-waste like Chromebooks, has a more serious OS than iOS.
               | It is more functional and capable, and undeniably the
               | better professional OS. I say that with no love for
               | ChromeOS.
               | 
               | iOS exists in a class of it's own, functionality-wise. A
               | class much closer to game consoles than anything
               | resembling a computer.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | > Hell, I'll double-down if you really disagree with me.
               | 
               | No wonder the world is in its current state, if when
               | faced with disagreement the reaction is "I'll plug my
               | ears and dig my heels in deeper" instead of "I wonder if
               | I'm missing something".
               | 
               | > ChromeOS (...) has a more serious OS than iOS. It is
               | (...) the better professional OS.
               | 
               | For starters, there are professionals (as in, people who
               | get paid to do a job) who do their work on iOS. Not
               | programmers, but writers, illustrators, animators, video
               | editors, photographers, film makers... Maybe _you_ can't
               | (or refuse to even try?) doing your work on an iOS device
               | --I certainly choose not to--but that in no way means no
               | one does.
               | 
               | But all of that is irrelevant when you consider the very
               | true fact of life that _not everything is about work_.
               | Many people want something else, and not making all one's
               | computing decisions around work is healthy.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | > there are professionals (as in, people who get paid to
               | do a job) who do their work on iOS
               | 
               | I don't doubt it. There are people who get paid to do
               | their work on a web browser, if iOS wasn't capable of
               | _that_ it would be a travesty. The flexibility of iOS
               | pales in comparison to _the absolute worst_ desktop OSes,
               | like Windows and ChromeOS. The DAW, IDE and NLE software
               | on iOS outright cannot compete with the offerings on
               | Windows, macOS and Linux.
               | 
               | > Many people want something else, and not making all
               | one's computing decisions around work is healthy.
               | 
               | You've conceded the original point, then. I can do "real
               | work" with an Xbox, toy shovel or Lego bricks, but it's
               | still a toy at the end of the day. The real tragedy is
               | that iPad and iPhone hardware doesn't _have_ to be
               | limited by toyetic software. It 's entirely Apple's
               | choice to restrict my iPad from supporting WINE, having
               | Linux containers and running _actual_ IDEs that aren 't
               | arbitrarily gimped by distribution terms.
        
               | chuckadams wrote:
               | let's maybe not engage the patently obvious troll?
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Only if you can't refute me.
               | 
               | I don't think my comment is controversial among most
               | iPhone owners, it's only the hardcore ecosystem
               | enthusiasts that debate it. Most people really _do_ treat
               | their iPhone and iPad like a set-top box or games
               | console; it 's the minority who rely on it for work. A
               | passionate minority, certainly, but nowhere near the
               | market share Windows and ChromeOS carved out. iOS and
               | iPadOS compete from the sidelines, still struggling to
               | displace (or match) Windows.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | > Only if you can't refute me.
               | 
               | You have been refuted. Repeatedly. But as you yourself
               | have said, you double down on disagreements. So I
               | understand why you have been called a troll.
               | 
               | > it's only the hardcore ecosystem enthusiasts that
               | debate it.
               | 
               | That's not true at all. Case in point, I don't care for
               | phones. What I did care for was your exaggerated
               | rhetoric. As someone who is critical of Tim Cook and
               | modern-day Apple (especially around the state of their
               | software), I'd rather criticisms remain grounded in
               | things the people at Apple can understand and fix, not
               | made up ramblings that make them dismiss critics as
               | lunatics to ignore.
               | 
               | Your tone changed drastically from the original post. You
               | went from derogatory terms and claiming "nobody wants"
               | iOS devices to them having a "passionate" user base and
               | recognising they can be used for work.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _Nobody wants those, and nobody wants this._
           | 
           | Just because _you_ don't want it doesn't mean  <checks
           | notes...> a billion or so people don't want an iPhone. Or
           | rather, a phone they don't have to dick with straight out of
           | the box.
           | 
           | OTOH, I don't really even know what you're on about. Android
           | is a nightmare because...it's like iOS, which is "take phone
           | out of box, restore from backup, sorted"? That doesn't even
           | make any sense, especially in light of what TFA describes.
        
             | mhitza wrote:
             | For many people around my area, iPhones are a status symbol
             | choice. Not a coherent or direct software+ecosystem choice.
             | 
             | I've seen arguments around chosing iPhone for their camera.
             | But the vast majority that is tech iliterate stops around
             | that argument.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _For many people around my area, iPhones are a status
               | symbol choice._
               | 
               | People in your area are very forthcoming. Not once have I
               | ever heard someone vocalize that they bought an iPhone as
               | a status symbol. "Easy to use", "it's what my friends
               | use, and they like it", but never "it makes me appear
               | higher in the social strata". They might think it, and
               | I'm sure some do, but it's not said out loud. Or maybe
               | that's not why the majority buy iPhones, dunno.
        
               | mhitza wrote:
               | My area is eastern europe. Where an iphone is like 3-4
               | minimum wage salaries or so. People take loans to buy
               | iphones! And you could probably also correlate them with
               | luxury item buyers, around here.
               | 
               | Good thing the US message color thing is isolated over
               | there and the peer pressure on Gen Alpha hasn't reached
               | us.
               | 
               | But yes, I stick to my claim. You don't have to hard
               | press those people to tell you that they don't use phones
               | "for poor people" . The idiom is local and used both
               | ironically and literraly.
        
               | bdangubic wrote:
               | iPhone is a status symbol is more places than it is
               | "normal" to pay $1k+ for a phone (this is yearly or less
               | salary in most of the world). gotta come down from the
               | ivory tower
        
               | chuckadams wrote:
               | It's just a "high-end" good here in the States. Elsewhere
               | it's a luxury good, on par with a Rolex. I use an iPhone
               | because of the smooth UI, the integration with my Mac,
               | and the less-evil company that spies on me less. But
               | let's not kid ourselves, these things are spendy, and
               | conspicuous consumption is still a thing.
        
               | encom wrote:
               | Paying 2000 USD for a phone absolutely is a status
               | symbol. And nobody actually _says_ a status symbol is one
               | - like nobody says _look at my Rolex watch, I paid 50000
               | USD for it_. Nobody needs a 2000 USD phone and nobody
               | needs a 50000 USD watch.
        
               | Johnny555 wrote:
               | The problem with buying a $2000 iPhone as a status symbol
               | is that no one knows whether you bought the $1100 256GB
               | model or the $2000 1TB model unless you tell them.
               | 
               | But someone that cares about watches knows whether you
               | paid $5000 or $50000 for your Rolex just by looking.
        
               | joe_mamba wrote:
               | _> Not once have I ever heard someone vocalize that they
               | bought an iPhone as a status symbol._
               | 
               | This might come as a shock to you, but people don't
               | vocalize and share their desires and impulses on why they
               | buy or do certain things, why they dress a certain way,
               | why they sleep with certain people, etc. Apple's entire
               | brand was built on being different and desirable at the
               | lizard brain level.
               | 
               | In many parts of the world, people even take bank loans
               | to buy iPhones simply because it's the device that all
               | rich people, politicians, athletes, celebrities,
               | influencers use. They don't buy based on the specs and
               | reviews, they buy on what their lizard brain tells them,
               | and no tech company does that better than Apple.
        
           | fn-mote wrote:
           | > Android is becoming more and more like iOS: anything that
           | the user used to be able to do... they can no longer do
           | 
           | The article shows this is not true, if you know the similar
           | process for iOS.
           | 
           | The article could be compared to the iPhone setup process.
           | There are some preferences to uncheck, but there is no third
           | party spying software on an iPhone when it arrives. Contrast
           | to Samsung.
        
         | butILoveLife wrote:
         | To be fair, they are doing with a Samsung phone, and Samsung is
         | the Apple of Android (Big marketing budget, mid quality if we
         | are being generous).
         | 
         | Samsung as a company is a universal No Buy. The fact OP bought
         | Samsung makes me raise an eyebrow.
         | 
         | Credit to Apple where credit is due. When I unboxed my first
         | iphone, I was happy to give Apple all my personal information,
         | birthday, emails, ssn.... It was bizarre, I'm usually
         | apprehensive to give this stuff away, but Apple made it fun.
         | Within a few days, I was disappointed by a lack of widgets,
         | slow transitions between screens, and a buggy podcast app. But
         | the damage was done, my company was out $600 and Apple had my
         | contact info.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | Samsung's UI and software behaviour may be shitty in general,
           | but they're one of the few manufacturers reliably offering
           | timely long-term security updates. When you go beyond
           | Samsung, you quickly end up with brands promising "quarterly
           | updates" or having months-long delays fixing CVEs.
           | 
           | Plus, when they do something novel, they do it quite well.
           | Their flagship phones have great price/performance if you buy
           | them a month or two after launch (often for three quarters of
           | the launch price + free earbuds/smartwatch + cashback), their
           | software suite is quite complete and generally well-
           | localised, and they have support channels non-English support
           | channels available.
           | 
           | I do wish they'd fix some of their terrible software design
           | crimes and stop the endless race to the bottom shoving
           | product placement into their apps, but it's hardly a no-buy
           | to me.
        
             | microtonal wrote:
             | Pixel is much cleaner and ships security updates monthly
             | like clockwork. Plus you can install GrapheneOS and you get
             | security updates multiple times per month, no AI nonsense
             | and sandboxed Google Play Services if you need it.
        
         | Analemma_ wrote:
         | It's pick-your-poison. iPhone setup is eight hundred screens,
         | half of which are upsells for Apple services, but at least it's
         | only Apple services. Android setup, if you're not on a Pixel,
         | is an invitation for the vendor's dozens of "partners" to all
         | get your money and all your data.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | My personal experience is that the setup procedure wildly
         | depends on the phone's vendor.
         | 
         | The biggest difference between setting up a Pixel and an iPhone
         | I experienced was that Google asked for certain settings
         | beforehand that I had to turn off in the settings after setup
         | on iOS. Both would've been a lot faster if I hadn't tried to
         | disable optional account stuff.
         | 
         | Contrast that to Samsung, _especially_ their non-flagship
         | models, where the setup wizard took forever because of the crap
         | Samsung added to the process.
         | 
         | That said, I do appreciate some "tutorial" parts of the setup
         | process on Android. When I first set up an iPhone, I got the
         | distinct impression that Apple assumed I already knew how to do
         | everything. Their interface isn't exactly intuitive if you
         | haven't used iOS before, no matter what online forums may
         | claim. It took me several tries and a Google search to figure
         | out how to remove apps, for instance. Perhaps one might find it
         | an annoying extra step you're going to skip as a power user
         | who's used to the platform, but it felt strange to be dropped
         | into a strange, new operating environment with no instructions.
        
         | monooso wrote:
         | A _Samsung_ phone. I 've owned several (not Samsung) Android
         | phones, and have never had to deal with such nonsense.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | On Samsung phones you can skip making a Samsung account. All
           | the Google bits still work and it's basically the same as
           | having a Pixel, except you'll have a few unused apps, a
           | different camera and phone app and a very slightly different
           | UI.
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | I had to guess arcane adb permission commands to stop a
             | 2025 Samsung tablet from nagging the user about creating a
             | Samsung account. It just kept showing up multiple times a
             | day. But nice enough hardware with the promise of long
             | updates at a reasonable price.
        
         | dismalaf wrote:
         | This article is a disaster. Beyond logging into your Google
         | account nothing they described in the article is required to
         | set up an Android phone.
        
       | iberator wrote:
       | It is not. Takes like 30 seconds
        
         | Pikamander2 wrote:
         | If you want your brand new phone to be filled with adware apps
         | and obnoxious default settings, sure.
        
           | dismalaf wrote:
           | Customizing it to your liking is different than "setting it
           | up".
        
           | hagbard_c wrote:
           | You bought the wrong phone and/or put the wrong distribution
           | on it. Having said this it does take more than 30 seconds to
           | get a new device up to your personal specs unless you're fine
           | with whatever vendor distribution runs on it - which can work
           | if you choose the right vendor but mostly ends up with your
           | device serving someone else. I'd say it takes closer to 30
           | minutes than 30 seconds but I'm fine with taking this time
           | given that my average Android phone lifetime is a bit over 8
           | years. I'm currently using a Redmi Note 5 Pro from 2018 which
           | I'll soon relegate to second device status once I have a
           | replacement, probably a Motorola G75 or something similar.
           | That device should also last me around 8 years. Before the
           | Redmi I'm using now I used a Motorola Defy from 2010 which,
           | incidentally, is still in use as a trailer camera. Android
           | devices can last a very long time because the firmware is
           | open. Eventually they'll be too slow or lack the memory to
           | support more recent Android distributions - which is what
           | made me replace the Defy with the Redmi - but that does not
           | mean they end up taking space in a drawer somewhere. They're
           | in use here as trailer camera, media player, 3D printer
           | controller and more.
        
       | sonofhans wrote:
       | "Phones" in the title is doing lots of heavy lifting. "Android
       | phones" is the key missing piece.
       | 
       | I love Free software too, and I wish I could run more of my life
       | on it, but it's no longer my hobby. I like cars, too, but I don't
       | work on a hobby car. The author's experience is why I use
       | proprietary stuff like Apple for these parts of my life. A new
       | Apple device is usually a non-event: charge it, authenticate,
       | wait for the back to restore while you go about your business.
       | 
       | The cost of more freedom (in this case, from proprietary
       | toolchains and data lakes) is needing to exercise more control
       | (compiling custom Android images). I just, honest to god, don't
       | want to spend the time on it. A kid, a house, cats, getting old.
       | I like that someone else has solved multi-device backup and
       | restore, and I feel happy watching it happen so perfectly, even
       | if I'm not the one controlling it.
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | A lot of the complains expressed in this article are distinctly
         | from the proprietary parts.
         | 
         | Stock Android, and especially stock Samsung, is far from being
         | a free software solution.
         | 
         | A turnkey solution based (almost exclusively, and except the
         | driver blobs) on free software would be to buy a phone running
         | something like /e/. I think they also provide backups.
         | 
         | Of course, stuff requiring SafetyNet (or whatever Google
         | current oppressive attestation system) may not work (though
         | microG makes some of it work).
        
           | microtonal wrote:
           | _I think they also provide backups_
           | 
           | Sort of. They use SeedVault, but a bunch of apps are not
           | backed up. When restoring another set of apps do not properly
           | restore
        
         | hagbard_c wrote:
         | What is it in your life which makes it 'impossible' to use free
         | software, Google-free AOSP-derived Android distributions being
         | part of this? I run close to exclusively free software and have
         | done so for decades and have yet to feel the need to change
         | this. Of course there are exceptions, e.g. I need to run
         | proprietary applications for banking and electronic ID but
         | those are the exceptions to the rule. My server runs only free
         | software, on desktop I sometimes run an older version of
         | Sketchup to start modelling things but that's the only non-free
         | package I use there. We have children, a cat, a dog, 4 horses,
         | a farm, a large forest, the works. We have multi-device backup
         | and restore as well. Things work fine, using free software, not
         | using 'the cloud'. Where are the sticking points for you and
         | what would it take to take those away?
        
           | fn-mote wrote:
           | The author is technical, but apparently the parents are not.
           | "It works for me" turns into "just spy on my family members".
        
           | tonyarkles wrote:
           | For me, "impossible" isn't the case. I'm deeply technical and
           | could 100% run a setup like you're describing. For me it's,
           | sadly, convenience and priorities. I oscillate between Linux
           | and OS X for desktop/laptop use, have used Linux for server
           | use for decades, have used both iOS/iPadOS and Android for
           | tablets "in production", and have only used Android as a
           | secondary phone for doing development, and only iOS for
           | primary phone use.
           | 
           | Convenience-wise, this is true both for the small daily stuff
           | and large occasional stuff.
           | 
           | Day-to-day:
           | 
           | - For work I have to deal with .docx, .xlsx, .pots, and .pdf
           | on a regular basis, both reading and authoring. Libreoffice
           | mucks up formatting in both directions for Word documents.
           | Web Office365 sucks in comparison to desktop O365. Linux PDF
           | viewers are fine until you have to fill out a form and
           | digitally sign one.
           | 
           | - Mechanical CAD: my team uses Fusion 360. There's Windows
           | and Mac versions. I haven't tried it under Wine. I suspect
           | it'd be painful. I've tried some OSS solutions. Not pleasant.
           | 
           | - ECAD: KiCAD has grown up and has become my primary ECAD
           | tool. Hooray!
           | 
           | - Time Machine: for my Linux machines I have a great setup
           | that pushes backups to Backblaze B2 using restic. For my
           | current laptop, I plug an external drive in every morning and
           | Time Machine does its magic. I also run the B2 script for
           | off-site occasionally.
           | 
           | - Phone calls: OS X and iOS have fantastic hand-off. I do
           | most of my work communication through Teams and Slack, both
           | of which work fine on Linux. Phone calls, though... if my
           | phone starts ringing, I get a notification on my laptop and
           | can just click "Answer" to take the phone call through the
           | headphones I'm already wearing.
           | 
           | - Clipboard integration: I actually started writing this
           | comment on my phone and then decided to move over to my
           | laptop. Copying it on my phone automatically put it in my
           | clipboard to paste on my laptop.
           | 
           | Hardware compatibility:
           | 
           | - My last Linux desktop was fabulous. Happily drove a 4K
           | display, I loved living in XFCE every day. There was one
           | issue that was extraordinarily frustrating: if the machine
           | sat unused for somewhere around 24-72 hours it would enter a
           | very strange power state. The machine was still powered up to
           | some degree, but was completely unresponsive. I could use it
           | every day with no issue, for weeks. If I didn't use it for
           | that 24-72h timeframe, boom, it would get into this state.
           | This only ever happened to me while I was travelling. I did
           | several deep debug dives into this to no avail, including at
           | one point setting up the kernel logger to log over serial to
           | another embedded machine. I pointed a security camera at it
           | to see if, say, a cat or some other obvious physical thing
           | was causing it. I ended up hooking up an Ethernet-controlled
           | power bar so that I could power cycle it and access the data
           | that was on it. Tried multiple kernels, many different kernel
           | command-line options, never did get to the bottom of it.
           | 
           | - My older 2014 Mac Mini that sat next to it was bulletproof.
           | I could do 98% of what I was doing with the Linux desktop
           | machine remotely on that machine just fine. Mostly there were
           | some embedded Linux tasks that wouldn't work well on the Mac.
           | 
           | OS Updates:
           | 
           | - My current phone (iPhone 12 Pro) is 6 years old. It's
           | running the latest OS. You can have an experience like this
           | with stock Android distributions if you very carefully
           | research which vendors and specific devices use... I forget
           | what it's called... Google One? My dev phone is a Nokia and
           | it got updates for a long time. I don't remember when/if they
           | stopped.
           | 
           | - The idea of having to custom compile or hunt down OS
           | updates from a third party destroys the convenience of this
           | for me. I want to spend essentially 0% of my life thinking
           | about what to do for an OS for my phone or tablet.
           | 
           | - My old 10-year-old Macbook Pro finally stopped receiving
           | updates a year or two ago. It runs Linux now quite happily.
           | It's a fantastic Linux machine.
           | 
           | Occasional new device setup:
           | 
           | - Back to the article, the Apple "I have a new
           | phone/iPad/laptop" story is just unbeatable. I couldn't even
           | tell you what the steps involve because they involve
           | virtually no thinking at all. It's roughly "hold your new
           | device near your old device". You maybe have to log into it
           | first. It requires no thought at all.
        
             | nyarlathotep_ wrote:
             | > My last Linux desktop was fabulous. Happily drove a 4K
             | display, I loved living in XFCE every day. There was one
             | issue that was extraordinarily frustrating: if the machine
             | sat unused for somewhere around 24-72 hours it would enter
             | a very strange power state. The machine was still powered
             | up to some degree, but was completely unresponsive. I could
             | use it every day with no issue, for weeks. If I didn't use
             | it for that 24-72h timeframe, boom, it would get into this
             | state.
             | 
             | This has always been my core Linux desktop woe--there's
             | always, no matter what CPU GPU (including (and most often),
             | no dGPU at all) combo/distro I've used, been sleep wake
             | issues of some variety.
             | 
             | I've had AMD CPUs with both fedora and Ubuntu that would
             | never sleep if they weren't woken to desktop (i.e if not
             | logged in, then allowed to automatically turn off the
             | display) they'd never sleep. On those and any of the
             | machines since, I never get more than a month of uptime
             | without it being unresponsive when trying to wake it or
             | similar, regardless of if Kernel updates have been
             | installed etc.
        
         | dismalaf wrote:
         | 95% of what was written in this article isn't required to set
         | up an Android phone. You can literally log into your Google
         | account on first boot and everything is done for you,
         | automatically.
        
           | fn-mote wrote:
           | The point is that you have to turn off preferences and
           | uninstall apps that come with the phone. (Samsung apps and
           | OneDrive are mentioned.)
           | 
           | So you don't _have_ to do this, but if you don't, you are
           | under even more surveillance and experience more advertising.
        
           | GuestFAUniverse wrote:
           | At least Samsung doesn't sync folders. Meaning: if they were
           | organized before by topic they aren't there after syncing via
           | their "Samsung Smart Switch Mobile" to a new Samsung phone. A
           | lot gets synced, but it's not like an image with full DSC
           | (desired state configuration) afterwards.
           | 
           | Pretty mediocre -- not totally useless, but far from a
           | seamless experience.
        
           | kiwijamo wrote:
           | Maybe Samsung has changed how the first boot works compared
           | to stock Android, but this definitely has not been my
           | experience across several Samsung devices. Also many apps
           | store their data in different ways which doesn't always
           | survive a device migration/backup. Only cloud-only apps have
           | a good experience, wheras anything that stores data on device
           | can be hit and miss depending on how easy individual apps
           | manage its backup.
        
         | II2II wrote:
         | > I use proprietary stuff like Apple for these parts of my
         | life. A new Apple device is usually a non-event: charge it,
         | authenticate, wait for the back to restore while you go about
         | your business.
         | 
         | Most of the author's criticisms were centered on avoiding
         | account creation and third-party apps. I'm not sure I would
         | give Apple the benefit of the doubt here since the motivations
         | are different: Apple is far more interested in locking
         | customers into their own ecosystem. On the Android front, that
         | isn't all that different from getting a Pixel. Of course,
         | getting an Android based Samsung adds an extra company who
         | wants to do the same as well as selling space to third parties.
         | 
         | While Android being more open does add complexity, it is mostly
         | limited to those who buy devices produced by another vendor or
         | those who _choose_ to exercise their freedom (e.g. by choosing
         | to install a third-party version of Android, or installing a
         | third-party  "app store", or developing their own software).
        
           | t0bia_s wrote:
           | _that isn 't all that different from getting a Pixel._
           | 
           | Paradox is, that with Pixel device you can get most freedom
           | and security togather. Installation of GrapheneOS is easiest
           | custom ROM installation that could possibly be.
        
             | iririririr wrote:
             | > Installation of GrapheneOS
             | 
             | and you get absolutely nothing in return. Yeah you will
             | have root access sometimes. But other than that, android is
             | not opensource anymore.
             | 
             | I mean, it never was because you had hundreds (no
             | exaggeration [1]) closed-binary blobs running (not to
             | mention a whole OS on things like radio and camera, running
             | on their own SoC), but now you cannot get even close to a
             | proper of the userspace since google already anounced they
             | will not be mainlining anything back to AOSP
             | 
             | [1] zero source for kernel pieces, even for pixel
             | https://github.com/GrapheneOS/device_google_laguna-
             | kernels_6...
        
               | II2II wrote:
               | > and you get absolutely nothing in return. Yeah you will
               | have root access sometimes.
               | 
               | You get improved privacy and security, at least on some
               | fronts. By default, GrapheneOS does not provide root
               | access and recommends against rooting the device. Is
               | there a trade-off? Certainly. Security and privacy are
               | always at conflict with what a completely open platform
               | can provide. Given the amount of access to personal
               | information that goes through our devices and the number
               | of bad actors out there (both behaving legally and
               | illicitly), some people believe it is worth the price. At
               | least GrapheneOS offers more transparency than Android or
               | iOS.
               | 
               | The bit about clamping down on open source, that is very
               | much disappointing. I doubt that it is going to go away
               | entirely in Android. On the other hand, hopefully it will
               | provide incentives for companies to explore developing
               | more open alternatives and consumers to explore buying
               | more open alternatives. It won't be a huge market, but
               | many of us have avoided growing so dependent upon the
               | current platforms that we couldn't simply walk away.
        
         | adamsmark wrote:
         | iOS now has a ton of dialogs and set up steps and the
         | occasional dark pattern in selling you various cloud based
         | subscriptions to Apples various services.
         | 
         | Having said all that, yes Android is pretty bad. I think it's
         | the in the nature of platform owners to get their hooks into
         | yoh as much as possible.
         | 
         | When I set up Linux Mint, there was none of this.
        
           | cmiles74 wrote:
           | It took a good while for me to figure out that a family
           | member had inadvertently signed up for an Apple Music account
           | that they were not using.
        
             | iririririr wrote:
             | Apple going from being "the new microsoft" to being "the
             | new AOL"
        
         | metalman wrote:
         | a big chunk of apples valuation is that they can just tell you
         | to bend over the day they decide to aquire half a trillion
         | dollars, fire half there workers, and demonstrate the creative
         | way there user agreaments are bieng interpereted, and that you
         | can get a trump phone if you dont like it. this is the company
         | that has signed an exclusive deal to provide phones for the
         | ZGF, zionist genocide force, so dont even bother, ok?
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | To be fair, setting up a new iPhone (without restoring from
         | backup) is a pretty long-winded process these days. You have to
         | make about 50 decisions on various features, tap through
         | numerous info screens, set up Face ID, Apple Pay, voice
         | recognition, etc. etc. It feels like every team at Apple wants
         | _something_ in the onboarding flow.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | All of those security related screens you listed is why I
           | like Apple: security related things are local to secure
           | enclave, not in cloud.
        
         | nazgul17 wrote:
         | *Samsung phones. Known for a long time for their crapware
         | infested devices. At the other end of the spectrum, Pixel
         | phones are quite easy and smooth to set up.
        
       | hollow-moe wrote:
       | I fear every single time I have to switch phones. Being degoogled
       | means I first have to choose hardware based on custom ROMs
       | compatibility, and fight the thing to just install the ROM. Then
       | the fun begins, for every single stupid feature I have to install
       | and setup a solution (app) optionally restoring a backup
       | individually. Contacts, calendar, files, maps, passwords, airtag
       | protection, email, IM, keyboard, weather, notes, smart
       | garbage:tm:, alternative YouTube client...The state of current
       | tech is pityful, if it wasn't what I was doing to put food on the
       | table I wouldn't want any of this garbage 10 meters near me.
       | Edit: Before any of the geniuses here says "at least you can use
       | alternatives" I don't want to hear your copium, it's obvious this
       | won't last.
        
       | nvartolomei wrote:
       | Upgraded to one of the latest iPhone recently. First time I
       | clicked on "transfer data from old phone". I'm used to
       | reinstalling the operating system every couple of months from
       | when I used Windows. It took maybe 15 minutes with close to 0
       | interactions. Everything was transferred. I was already
       | authenticated in apps. What took manual steps was eSIM transfers.
       | 
       | I don't remember exact steps so there could have been a bit more.
       | But it was an impressive experience and I told my geek friends
       | about it. They were surprised this is the first time I used this
       | feature.
        
         | sentientslug wrote:
         | eSIM transfer also typically doesn't require any intervention,
         | usually it just goes across to the new device
        
           | wtmt wrote:
           | The key word here is "typically".
           | 
           | Transferring eSIM from one iPhone to another can be
           | restricted by the carrier. Here in India, the second largest
           | carrier (Airtel), does not support the native iOS eSIM
           | transfer process. It's a separate set of steps (the ones
           | published on Airtel's website won't work, despite customer
           | care claiming that it does). What works is almost like
           | applying for a new or replacement eSIM.
        
             | microtonal wrote:
             | Same here, KPN, NL. You have to install the KPN app on the
             | new phone and log in. Then you request an eSIM on the new
             | phone. You get an SMS auth code on the old phone. You fill
             | the auth code on the new phone. Then you have to remove the
             | eSIM from the old phone (with the new one not provisioned
             | yet). Then confirm on the new phone and cross your fingers
             | that provisioning works. Presumably (according to the docs)
             | when it fails, you can reprovision the old phone again.
             | 
             | The process made me so anxious the last few times, that I
             | went to the carrier shop and asked for a nano SIM. Now life
             | is bliss again.
             | 
             | It seems that eSIM is primarily an advantage when you need
             | to get a new SIM, but other than that I don't really see
             | much of an advantage for me as a customer.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | For some reason, iMessage always ends up in a very weird state
         | when I transfer to a new iPhone. Also, some apps don't get
         | restored settings, but I think they opt out (usually banking,
         | credit card, insurance apps, etc.).
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | Google has APIs to do the same. In fact, it works on most apps.
         | The biggest exceptions are security sensitive apps (2FA,
         | password managers) and WhatsApp for some stupid reason. If
         | you're a HN Android user who turns off any form of data sharing
         | like me, you wouldn't notice, though, as this requires the
         | "back up my data" checkbox during setup of the old and new
         | phone to work conpletely.
         | 
         | Another issue on Android is that iOS allows for syncing data
         | through the user's iCloud, which can be gigabytes in size, but
         | Google has you use the Google Drive API which sucks and
         | involves handing over credit card info.
         | 
         | The Android file transfer has another trick that Apple doesn't
         | seem to do, which is fully offline local sync rather than going
         | through the cloud. This has reliability issues and requires
         | both devices to stay on and nearby while the transfer is in
         | progress, but on slower internet connections the process can be
         | a heck of a lot faster thanks to modern wifi speeds.
        
         | alliao wrote:
         | i typically don't want to re-enter credentials etc, so I always
         | do encrypted backup via itunes.. took 6-7hrs just transferring
         | photos quite hands off most of the time but still painful,
         | can't imagine what android guys go through
        
       | deejaaymac wrote:
       | If you use android and don't choose GrapheneOS then idk what to
       | tell you, its been an awesome experience with no issues for the
       | last ~5ish years I've used it.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | Yep, no cloud storage upsells, no pushy AI crap, just a fast
         | barebones smartphone and you can pick what you want on top.
        
       | dismalaf wrote:
       | This is literally the midwit meme...
       | 
       | Here's how you actually set up an Android phone:
       | 
       | - log into Google account
       | 
       | - select a few checkboxes (basically just if you want to restore
       | apps or not)
       | 
       | - done, everything else is automatic
       | 
       | All the fuckery they decided to do because they think they're
       | tech savvy wasn't required.
        
         | urbandw311er wrote:
         | You don't sound very tech savvy yourself to be honest! Well,
         | certainly not security conscious or in anyway concerned about
         | data privacy.
        
       | lnrd wrote:
       | Giving an Android phone to elderly/non-technical people is asking
       | for trouble imho. They will eventually tap their way into
       | installing suspicious apps, adware or even straight up malware.
       | It's inevitable, they are not aware of what they do and how to
       | avoid the many risks of the digital world. I remember having the
       | same struggles of OP when setting up a cheap android phone for my
       | grandma, the amount of bloat, adware and misleading content I had
       | to remove was incredible (and some couldn't even be removed). The
       | irony was that after a few months of light usage, the phone was
       | in a state even worse, full of downloaded apps and opened
       | suspicious websites in the browser. She would swear she never
       | even noticed any of those.
       | 
       | This is one of the cases in which giving them an iPhone with its
       | walled garden has great benefits. You can also setup parental
       | control on top of that already locked down ecosystem.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | FYI: you can also set up parental controls on Android.
         | 
         | Parental control is a also a hot buggy mess on iOS currently.
         | Our daughter has an iPhone with parental control set up and a
         | bunch of apps that are whitelisted regularly refuse to start at
         | random moments (blocked by parental controls). We hoped that
         | iOS 26 would finally fix it, but nope.
         | 
         | It doesn't really matter, both phone ecosystems are a mess, but
         | in different ways.
        
         | rationalist wrote:
         | My mother can no longer do the stuff she used to on her iOS
         | phone because it is so complicated compared to the iPhone 4 I
         | gave her a long time ago.
         | 
         | I screen her emails with her consent, very easy to do with
         | Fastmail that imports her Yahoo mail into a folder she doesn't
         | see and then I move okay emails to her inbox.
        
           | SuzyM wrote:
           | Have you tried Assistive Access mode?
           | https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/assistive-access-
           | iphon...
        
             | rationalist wrote:
             | I have not heard of it before, thank you. I will try it
             | out.
        
               | SuzyM wrote:
               | No problem! :)
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | But I thought sideloading wasn't a real problem and Google is
         | just locking it down because they're evil :-)
        
           | xigoi wrote:
           | "Sideloading" does not play a role in this. All of the
           | crapware is on Google Play.
        
             | GuestFAUniverse wrote:
             | Galaxy Store is the clown car version of Google Play--
             | luckily mostly unnecessary.
        
         | uyzstvqs wrote:
         | If your relatives are significantly tech illiterate, I'd skip
         | the smartphone entirely and go for a locked-down Linux desktop
         | + feature phone. The most dangerous apps are big legitimate
         | ones.
         | 
         | If you do go for a smartphone, my experience tells me that
         | there's no difference between Android and iOS. The biggest
         | sources for shady apps are the Google Play Store and Apple App
         | Store. Shady stuff on the web can be easily defeated using an
         | adblocking browser, which is essential for older relatives.
        
           | MattDamonSpace wrote:
           | Sir a Linux desktop recommendation for non-tech-literate
           | elders is just silly
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | Setting up _enshittified devices_ is the nightmare. Don 't curse
       | out on all phones because they made a poor purchase decision.
       | You're literally buying it wrong. Next time go with a slightly
       | used device that's _fully supported_ by GrapheneOS and marvel at
       | the frictionless setup.
        
       | ray_v wrote:
       | Is it not clear that's it's just the well-known phenomenon,
       | "enshittification" at play?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
        
       | juancn wrote:
       | iPhones are basically effort free, it takes a while, but 99% of
       | it is transferred without a hitch, some poorly written apps may
       | need an extra step.
        
       | freitasm wrote:
       | Another thing that annoys me on Android is the setup experience
       | itself. All my recent device presentcthe same behaviour: login
       | with a Google account, transfer data, setup voice assistant and
       | some other defaults,done.
       | 
       | Then after the first app updates is done, a notification comes
       | with "let's finish setting up your phone" and again asks to setup
       | voice assistant, check defaults and whatever else is in the flow.
       | 
       | Has no one noticed that the setup flow seems to run twice?
       | 
       | And it's not one specific device. I do it with eight to ten
       | devices a year, from different OEM, writing reviews and testing.
       | They all have the same behaviour.
        
         | freitasm wrote:
         | Another annoying thing: very few apps are copied from old
         | device to new devices and bring their settings and most
         | importantly login. Of about 80 apps on my device, only five or
         | so are ready to use after a migration.
         | 
         | Going through dozens of apps, doing logins, 2FAcand changing
         | settings is a PITA.
         | 
         | Devs do a poor job on that front.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | Developers basically need to opt out not to use that feature.
           | 2FA apps do that for understandable reasons (including on
           | iOS).
           | 
           | In my experience just about everything but WhatsApp and maybe
           | Signal work out of the box for apps downloaded through GPlay.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | I'm dreading having to buy a new rugged Android phone. I have one
       | where all the stuff I don't want is turned off. F-Droid, Firefox,
       | FairEmail, DuckDuckGo, no Google account. Getting a new phone
       | into that configuration may not be possible. The major brands are
       | more and more locked down, and the minor brands can't be trusted.
       | 
       | I have a Cat phone now. The actual manufacturer, Bullett, went
       | bankrupt. Can't get the small rubber parts needed to maintain the
       | waterproofing.
       | 
       | Suggestions?
        
         | Gander5739 wrote:
         | You could get a pixel and flash grapheneos. Most stock roms
         | will require google services.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | Sounds like setting up Windows. The amount of explaining of "why
       | you don't want or need that" was insane. I got Ubuntu down to 10
       | min or so. Including my fav apps. (I won't make the comparison to
       | setting up NicOS with a ready to go config ;))
        
       | hkbuilds wrote:
       | The worst part is that it keeps getting harder, not easier. Every
       | new phone setup asks you to connect more accounts, enable more
       | permissions, and configure more services.
       | 
       | I recently helped a family member set up a new phone and it took
       | over 2 hours. Between 2FA migrations, app re-authentication, and
       | trying to figure out which backup actually had their data, it was
       | miserable.
       | 
       | Phone manufacturers have zero incentive to make cross-platform
       | migration easy. Apple wants you to stay on iPhone. Google wants
       | you to stay on Android. The user suffers.
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | > I recently helped a family member set up a new phone and it
         | took over 2 hours
         | 
         | I give a silent thanks every day that my dad still has a flip
         | phone and no desire to upgrade.
        
       | lsc4719 wrote:
       | Why don't use `smartswitch` built-in feature of Samsung phones?
        
       | hvenev wrote:
       | I personally call this process of setting up a new device,
       | whether for me or for someone else, "shit shoveling". It is
       | something of a ritual.
       | 
       | In the former case the thing that needs to be removed is the
       | entirety of the OS (and if that proves to be impossible, the
       | device is returned or discarded), and in the latter it's a scan
       | of all apps and removal of all unnecessary apps, my grandma does
       | not need Samsung Galaxy Games, thank you very much.
        
       | MagicMoonlight wrote:
       | "I bought terrible Google slopware and struggled with it"
       | 
       | Insightful stuff. Adults buy iPhones.
        
       | bossyTeacher wrote:
       | Vivaldi over Firefox. I would love to hear the reasoning.
        
         | layman51 wrote:
         | Same here! I'm assuming it has more to do with the mobile app
         | experience than anything else.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | I do SIP and Asterisk. I read the title and was like I know
       | right! Oh smartphones. Setting it up is the tip of an iceberg
       | whereas consumers and society as a whole are pay huge prices in
       | several currencies for phones which are tremendously over
       | engineered for and not fit for, purpose. The entire stack from
       | Von Veumann to 5G has to go.
        
       | timedude wrote:
       | None of those problems exist on GrapheneOS. In fact i regularly
       | do a clean wipe and am up and running again in minutes.
        
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