[HN Gopher] Leaving Google has actively improved my life
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Leaving Google has actively improved my life
        
       Author : speckx
       Score  : 335 points
       Date   : 2026-02-27 19:08 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pseudosingleton.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pseudosingleton.com)
        
       | robin_reala wrote:
       | I degoogled back when they announced AMP email, and am in broad
       | agreement with the author here. The only things I've found it
       | hard to replace are YouTube, Arts & Culture, Google Books, and
       | Books ngrams. Everything else has great alternatives to move to
       | 100%, and Books is just a backup alongside archive.org and Hathi.
       | 
       | Even if you just stop using one piece of Google you'll find
       | yourself in a better place.
        
         | memset wrote:
         | What have you done for email?
        
           | frakt0x90 wrote:
           | For me, Fastmail has been incredible.
        
             | calmbonsai wrote:
             | I concur on Fastmail. I only keep a "legacy" Gmail account
             | for parental tech support.
        
       | kyrra wrote:
       | If you don't like the AI feature, Google at least lets you turn
       | it off: https://workspace.google.com/blog/product-
       | announcements/upda...
       | 
       | Specifically in Gmail Settings:
       | 
       | > Smart features: Turn on smart features in Gmail, Chat, and Meet
       | - When you turn this setting on, you agree to let Gmail, Chat,
       | and Meet use your content and activity in these products to
       | provide smart features and personalize your experience.
       | 
       | My wife turned this off because she didn't want typing
       | suggestions or even grammar correction. After disabling the
       | feature, she was much happier.
       | 
       | (googler, opinions are my own)
        
         | swiftcoder wrote:
         | Does this work outside of workspaces? I didn't think public
         | gmail accounts had the option
        
       | dude250711 wrote:
       | I saw someone on Safari having to actually watch YouTube ads.
       | 
       | It was so bizarre! I forgot those even exist.
        
         | wao0uuno wrote:
         | Adblockers for Safari exist. Even on iOS.
        
           | dude250711 wrote:
           | They even work sometimes I have heard.
        
             | baggachipz wrote:
             | Wipr2 is amazing. Never see ads on mobile Safari. On
             | desktop, Orion is great.
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | > _I always thought I loved Gmail. Turns out I just had the habit
       | of typing in "gmail.com" in my search bar. I honestly can't tell
       | you a single feature of Gmail that I miss._
       | 
       | > _Leaving Gmail also gave me the opportunity to start
       | implementing better digital hygiene. I no longer give my primary
       | email to fly-by-night sites, and I 'm deliberate with what things
       | I'm signing up for._
       | 
       | I also do this, but with my own custom domain - still in gmail.
       | 
       | Gmail is _fine_ , imo. I also don't let them algorithmically sort
       | my email - I use filters & such.
        
       | seaucre wrote:
       | Gmail can be made vanilla. It sounds like switching emails and
       | improving their email hygiene was the real improvement.
        
         | direwolf20 wrote:
         | It will still always analyse your emails for advertising
         | purposes.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Gmail is one of the only three categories of user data that
           | Google specifically says they won't scan.
        
             | hn_acc1 wrote:
             | Which probably means they scan it extra hard.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | > After giving them a fair shot, I think I can now honestly say
       | that Brave and DuckDuckGo are better than Google for >90% of
       | searches
       | 
       | I've had DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine for years and I
       | couldn't disagree with this more. DuckDuckGo is fine for quickly
       | getting to well known sites where I can't remember the URL, but
       | it's objectively worse for trying to find everything from Reddit
       | threads to Recipes. Their depth of indexing sites like Reddit
       | feels dramatically worse lately and recipe search will
       | predictably give me the same list of SEO spam blogs regardless of
       | what I type in.
       | 
       | DuckDuckGo also seems to be doing the YouTube search thing that
       | everyone hates where after the first several results it just
       | starts throwing semi-related things at you instead.
       | 
       | I still add "!g" to my DuckDuckGo queries when I don't have time
       | to mess around or if the first page of results is obvious SEO
       | spam.
       | 
       | The other main point in this blog post isn't really about Google
       | at all, it's just what happened when the author set up a a new
       | e-mail address and didn't sign up for a lot of sites with it:
       | 
       | > Leaving Gmail also gave me the opportunity to start
       | implementing better digital hygiene. I no longer give my primary
       | email to fly-by-night sites, and I'm deliberate with what things
       | I'm signing up for.
       | 
       | I thought there was going to be some substance to this post but
       | it reads like someone congratulating themselves for a choice they
       | made and then trying to backwards justify it.
        
         | direwolf20 wrote:
         | What if we had more specialized search engines? There should be
         | a recipe aggregator that searches for recipes and nothing else,
         | and prioritizes high value recipe sites.
        
           | cortesoft wrote:
           | Then we would need a search engine for search engines...
           | 
           | Also, how would a search engine for recipes work? How does
           | THAT search engine find when a new recipe site is created? It
           | would be to scrape the whole internet just to find all the
           | recipe sites....
        
             | Aldipower wrote:
             | This exists and is called a meta search engine. For example
             | like MetaGer, which was extremely famous 20 years ago in
             | Germany. https://metager.org/
        
             | bikelang wrote:
             | Random ideas:
             | 
             | - it could work like the Kagi smallweb. people submit sites
             | and you can't submit your own until you submit (and have
             | accepted) enough of others
             | 
             | - I'm also envisioning a parallel world where the big tech
             | monopolies next existed. Maybe there could be
             | crawler/indexer companies whose product was the stream of
             | new content. Then you as a specialist search engine could
             | consume the stream to build your own custom index and
             | weights
        
           | hn_acc1 wrote:
           | Reminds me a bit of how yahoo got started: categories, sub-
           | categories, etc..
           | 
           | Of course, back then they had thousands of websites to
           | categorize not billions.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | > from Reddit threads
         | 
         | Google is the only search engine allowed to index Reddit [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.lifewire.com/google-reddit-deal-8685766
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | Thanks, that explains Reddit.
           | 
           | I see the same phenomenon on other smaller forums, too,
           | though. DuckDuckGo always feels like it has a smaller
           | database than Google, which isn't really a surprise.
        
             | skydhash wrote:
             | I mostly use a web engine (DDG) to find web sites these
             | days, not content. Then I use the site's search instead or
             | just browse the navigation tree. Make everything simpler.
             | 
             | I much prefer to use scholar.google.com or npmjs.com for
             | research. The URL is already in my history/bookmarks and
             | the scoped query is more useful than the generic websearch.
        
           | thayne wrote:
           | That sounds like some excellent fodder for an anti-trust suit
           | if you ask me.
        
             | alex1138 wrote:
             | It does. Reddit has defined what truth is. Banning
             | r/nonewnormal is merely one part of that
        
           | elliotec wrote:
           | Kagi has tons of results from Reddit and they're always high
           | and relevant. I don't know if this means they're doing it
           | even though they're "not allowed to" or what but they
           | definitely get it somehow.
        
             | kyleee wrote:
             | Kagi is probably paying Google for those results?
        
               | LeonenTheDK wrote:
               | When that news first went out, the article[0] I read at
               | the time said that Kagi does purchase some of its
               | indexing from Google.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.404media.co/email/4650b997-7cc3-4578-834c
               | -7e663e...
        
               | monooso wrote:
               | I responded to another comment in this thread with the
               | details, but in summary, no.
               | 
               | See this previous discussion:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46708678
        
             | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
             | Kagi's search results (at least used to) include many
             | Google search results mixed in with results from other
             | sources. That used to be explained on Kagi's main webpage,
             | but I don't see it there now. (And I don't know who pays
             | whom for what in that type of arrangement.)
        
             | sethops1 wrote:
             | Kagi sources their search results from Google.
        
               | monooso wrote:
               | This is false.
               | 
               | Kagi had a post discussing this which made the front page
               | of HN about a month ago [1]:
               | 
               | > Google does not offer a public search API. The only
               | available path is an ad-syndication bundle with no
               | changes to result presentation - the model Startpage
               | uses. Ad syndication is a non-starter for Kagi's ad-free
               | subscription model.
               | 
               | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46708678
        
               | resfirestar wrote:
               | For the purposes of the discussion at hand, yes some
               | results do ultimately come from Google, just via third-
               | party SERP providers rather than Kagi paying Google for
               | access since Google doesn't offer their own public API
               | (and neither does Bing anymore).
        
               | rpdillon wrote:
               | Some very dodgy wording here.
               | 
               | > Because direct licensing isn't available to us on
               | compatible terms, we - like many others - use third-party
               | API providers for SERP-style results (SERP meaning search
               | engine results page). These providers serve major
               | enterprises (according to their websites) including
               | Nvidia, Adobe, Samsung, Stanford, DeepMind, Uber, and the
               | United Nations.
               | 
               | > This is not our preferred solution. We plan to exit it
               | as soon as direct, contractual access becomes available.
               | There is no legitimate, paid path to comprehensive Google
               | or Bing results for a company like Kagi. Our position is
               | clear: open the search index, make it available on FRAND
               | terms, and enable rapid innovation in the marketplace.
               | 
               | https://help.kagi.com/kagi/why-kagi/kagi-vs-google.html
        
           | dheera wrote:
           | I'm sure Baidu could safely index Reddit if they wanted to.
        
         | bartread wrote:
         | Same experience with DuckDuckGo. I've probably been using it as
         | my primary search engine for, well, I'm not absolutely sure,
         | but I want to say it was sometime during the pandemic so that
         | must be, what, 5 years?
         | 
         | Honestly, it's got to the point where 8 or 9 times out of 10 I
         | switch to Google search because I'm unhappy with the results
         | I'm getting... and really it's at the point where, why am I
         | even still using it?
         | 
         | It's just not very good.
         | 
         | It reminds of something like AltaVista back in the day, or one
         | of those other old skool search engines, with how poor its
         | results are relative to evil old Google.
        
           | expensive_news wrote:
           | Do you find the results are better when you use the same
           | query on Google? Because I've also exclusively used
           | DuckDuckGo for the past 5 or so years, and every now and then
           | I get frustrated by the results try Google.
           | 
           | But only once did Google actually give me what I was looking
           | for. Every other time the Google results were the same SEO
           | garbage I was getting with DDG.
           | 
           | Maybe I should try switching to Google for a full month to
           | see if my search quality generally improves.
        
             | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
             | I've been using DDG since they started. But still often use
             | !g.
             | 
             | But I think the AI overviews in DDG and even Google have
             | helped a lot.
             | 
             | AI has helped search tremendously. I only search for things
             | that should have exact answers.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | What I found was that when I first started using DDG, using
             | !g to take me to Google would get good results. But over
             | time, it stopped working. I'm not totally sure if it's
             | because Google's profile on me timed out and it's not
             | getting enough searches or because Google search quality
             | has gone down. Now, several years into using DDG as
             | primary, when I can't find it at DDG, I expect I won't find
             | it at Google either... but they do give me different bad
             | results.
        
           | mitchell209 wrote:
           | Lol this is the same thing that's been repeated about DDG for
           | over a decade. I had the same exact complaints and eventually
           | switched back to Google since I was using !g bangs so often,
           | and that was when I was in high school. Which is why, when I
           | learned about Kagi I switched and never looked back. Even as
           | a "casual" user I still find value because of the lack of
           | obnoxious ads and control I have over boosting or blocking
           | sites from my results completely.
        
             | ericd wrote:
             | Yeah, was going to ask - I had the same experience with
             | DDG, but with Kagi, I've never once been tempted to switch
             | back, even though I have to pay for Kagi.
        
         | jrmg wrote:
         | _DuckDuckGo is fine for quickly getting to well known sites
         | where I can 't remember the URL, but it's objectively worse for
         | trying to find everything from Reddit threads to Recipes._
         | 
         | Agree with this. DDG just seems to have less 'in' it.
         | 
         | I've been playing with old 8052 microcontrollers recently, and
         | it's not unusual for DDG to return zero results on slightly
         | esoteric technical searches, when Google will have plenty of
         | relevant results (and it's not just that Google is less strict
         | about search terms - often I'm searching specifically for
         | keywords).
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | That is also my experience with DuckDuckGo but all search
         | engines. They ALL suck including Google Search. I don't know
         | why, but the results are simply crap.
         | 
         | > I thought there was going to be some substance to this post
         | but it reads like someone congratulating themselves for a
         | choice they made and then trying to backwards justify it.
         | 
         | I don't read that. Where do you see a backwards justification?
         | Do you know the decision-making steps? I simply don't see how
         | you can conclude this, unless you assume it. In which case the
         | assumption may easily be totally incorrect.
        
           | Arainach wrote:
           | > That is also my experience with DuckDuckGo but all search
           | engines. They ALL suck including Google Search. I don't know
           | why, but the results are simply crap.
           | 
           | (obligatory disclaimer: I work for Google but not in Search,
           | all opinions strictly my own, yadda yadda)
           | 
           | It's a scale problem. An (in my opinion) unsolveable one.
           | 
           | Google - let's say all search engine companies combined -
           | employ N engineers working on search engines. They allocate
           | those teams X dollars, and let's pretend that's all these
           | companies do and their total income is Y dollars.
           | 
           | Around the world there are orders of magnitude more people -
           | let's say 1000*N, I don't know if anyone has even tried to
           | gather this data - trying to game the search results and get
           | their thing to the top. Those people have a combined budget
           | dramatically larger than X and (I suspect) significantly
           | larger than Y. Oh, and the best of them are almost certainly
           | sharing notes and tactics with each other.
           | 
           | Even if everyone working on a search engine is a 10X genius
           | engineer, they're still at a multiple-orders-of-magnitude
           | disadvantage.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > I don't read that. Where do you see a backwards
           | justification?
           | 
           | Most of the improvements he cited in his life were either
           | unrelated to Google or things that he could have turned off
           | in Gmail.
           | 
           | He complains about Gmail sorting his e-mail, but that's a
           | feature he turned on. He could have just turned it off.
           | 
           | He complains about his inbox being polluted from putting his
           | e-mail address into everything, but his new account doesn't
           | have anything signed up yet. That's not a Google problem,
           | that's an e-mail address problem.
           | 
           | He says that he's getting in the habit of skipping search
           | engines and going straight to IMDB or Wikipedia or Reddit,
           | but again that has nothing to do with Google specifically.
        
         | css_apologist wrote:
         | I felt this way until about a year or 2 ago, google has gotten
         | so bad DDG is not worse for my uses
         | 
         | I don't dig in reddit frequently so that specific issue is not
         | one for me
        
         | websap wrote:
         | Yeah, the article is slop. Not even AI slop. More like guilty
         | conscience slop.
         | 
         | I ran an experiment where I set DDG as my default on all
         | surfaces. About 3 - 4 months in, I actually started hating
         | searching, and a few weeks later most of my queries had the
         | prefix !g
         | 
         | Gmail is hands down the best. I pay for Gemini, and Gemini
         | outside gmail is much much better than Gemini inside gmail. I
         | pay for ChatGPT, but for some reason, I trust Gemini with my
         | email rather than ChatGPT.
        
         | phito wrote:
         | Exactly my experience too, to the point that I kinda ended up
         | only using DDG for its bang features and never really do real
         | searches with it... It's especially bad if I want local results
         | for my country in my language.
        
         | AvAn12 wrote:
         | Clearly YMMV but I have been very happy with DDG since
         | switching over a couple of years ago. Maybe we are searching in
         | different domains. From my experience, no ads and less ai slop,
         | and fine search quality.
        
         | BoredPositron wrote:
         | Give Google two more years and Google will be as bad as
         | ddg/bing.
        
         | fhdkweig wrote:
         | The image search is terrible on DDG. If I search for multiple
         | keywords, the search only cares if an image matches just one
         | word. Google ranks the results so that images that match all
         | the keywords are presented at the top.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Kagi has been an upgrade compared to DuckDuckGo for me.
         | 
         | It's hard to describe but the results are just better, and it
         | loads incredibly fast.
         | 
         | With DDG I always had this 20% wish to have Google back and
         | frequently queries with !g bangs, not so much with Kagi.
        
           | dgacmu wrote:
           | Ditto. Basically the only thing I !g for now are maps and
           | other geo-specific queries like the names of local
           | restaurants or stores. Google still outperforms Kagi on
           | those, but for nearly everything else I prefer the Kagi ad-
           | free, ai-summary-onlt-if-requested results.
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | Same! I tried to switch to DDG at first (5-6 years ago now),
           | but all too often the results were poor and I had to use !g
           | to search Google to get somewhere. Since I started using
           | Kagi, I've never once had that issue.
        
         | yakkomajuri wrote:
         | This is exactly my experience. I've had it as my primary search
         | engine for 6-7 years now but add !g to about 80% of queries.
         | 
         | Happy user of the DDG mobile browser though.
        
         | fuzzy2 wrote:
         | Well, yes, DuckDuckGo is not Google. You have to accept that.
         | Not just surface-level, but _for real_.
         | 
         | What made this easy for me is that Google is also no longer
         | Google. Ever since it started basically ignoring my actual
         | search query, I stopped using it. I used to be very good at
         | using Google, too.
         | 
         | DuckDuckGo is quite bad at times, yes. But then, so is Google.
         | If I need to find something I cannot put into search terms,
         | LLMs are helpful. From my trial experience I would say Kagi is
         | also a capable search machine, for some niches.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I had a similar experience with DDG. I felt like I had to add
         | "!g" to everything, which doesn't actually move one away from
         | Google, it just creates friction.
         | 
         | Kagi, however, has been a different experience for me. I
         | haven't felt the need to go to Google at all. If I can't find
         | it with Kagi, I'm confident I won't find it with Google either.
         | There have also been several times where I was on an outage
         | call with a double dozen people all looking for answers to some
         | issue. Everyone was coming up empty with Google, and I was able
         | to find something that solved the issue pretty quickly with
         | Kagi.
        
           | jerbearito wrote:
           | +1 for Kagi. It's been my daily driver for 2.5 years and I
           | have no complaints.
        
         | paffdragon wrote:
         | I also ditched Google years ago for DuckDuckGo, but its not
         | without problems for sure. Often times still full of obviously
         | fake sites in results, that I try to report them. Many times it
         | just returns nothing where Google still manages to give
         | results. And I still have to scroll through their ads when I am
         | on a machine without an adblocker (like Firefox Focus/Klar on
         | Android). But I still rather use them than Google, if I don't
         | find something it is usually not the end of the world and I
         | just move on. Recently, I switched all my browsers to their
         | noai site, on some I still have the lite version, I think.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | It seems like every search devolves long enough to returning
         | anything for fear of existential dread that the user will think
         | you did something wrong wrong. Outlook ignores almost all
         | context to just return partial matches
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I have basically the same experience of trying DuckDuckGo,
         | getting useless results if the search is outside the domain of
         | the handful of sites I already know, and then trying Google.
         | But I find Google usually also returns useless sites.
         | 
         | ChatGPT is the only general-purpose search engine that seems to
         | have any chance of producing a link that is both new to me and
         | useful. Of course, I try not to use it too much, people say
         | it's bad for the planet or whatever.
        
         | eek2121 wrote:
         | Agreed...mostly. I've been using DDG for many years on and off
         | (shoot, since they first became a thing), and for about 3 years
         | full time. About 15% of my searches end with me adding !g to
         | the end to perform a Google search. Google gets things right
         | another 5-10% of the time. For the oddest of searches, I have
         | to tweak my search terms several times to even attempt to
         | figure out the answer.
         | 
         | Search is hard.
         | 
         | Breaking up with Google is even harder, but definitely worth
         | it. I still have a Gmail account that is used for spam/low
         | effort email nonsense (I currently use hey.com for most
         | email...a decision I am considering revisiting in the future
         | since I've found a good way to host my own email with a
         | provider that won't get auto rejected/blacklisted). That and
         | the searches I mentioned above are my only use of Google
         | Products at this point in time. Maps is gone. Photos is just a
         | memory. I kicked Android out the door years ago. All my home
         | integrations are via open source and/or Apple, and I'm finding
         | ways to NOT have to rely on even Apple for that.
         | 
         | I never really used docs or other services. For storage I am
         | currently using OneDrive and iCloud, however I am about to push
         | all of the cloud storage stuff to Backblaze and Cloudflare.
         | 
         | While I almost never see ads, when I do see them, I notice that
         | they are never targeted ads. Even some of the odd
         | "coincidences" have gone away...say, verbally chatting with my
         | spouse about how I am thinking about buying such and such a
         | product...only to see an ad for it later on (and assuming it
         | was a coincidence)...things like that have stopped.
         | 
         | I've also been avoiding Amazon as well, for the same reason.
         | 
         | Just my 2 cents.
        
         | driverdan wrote:
         | I wouldn't say DDG is worse, I'd say it's equally as bad. Both
         | Google and DDG are full of AI slop now. Often the entire first
         | page is full of wrong generated content.
         | 
         | At least DDG lets you block results which Google does not.
        
         | mabedan wrote:
         | 100% agree. My default is also DuckDuckGo, but I know for a
         | fact that if the search is anything other than finding the
         | homepage of a company, I'm gonna struggle with duck. I still
         | use it because I want to not use Google, but Google is
         | 10000000% a superior product.
        
         | ivankelly wrote:
         | There's queries and there's queries. Many queries are
         | effectively undefined bookmarks. You know this exists but
         | haven't saved it but your know a few key words to get to it.
         | "Rustdoc moka api". And then there's the "I'm researching a
         | subject queries". Google used to be useful for both. But for
         | the later case it send to have gotten worse. Which is
         | irrelevant because LLMs are so much better. So people will use
         | LLMs for these usecases. So Google search basically becomes a
         | phonebook. And that's easy to emulate. Their calculator is
         | still my go to though
        
         | rpdillon wrote:
         | Weird, I switched to DDG years ago, I used !g for a couple of
         | years, but I don't really ever use Google anymore. I don't seem
         | to struggle to find things, so I wonder what's up. Maybe I'm
         | just training myself to be OK with something that isn't
         | optimal. That said, Google seems pretty spammy these days (i.e.
         | actual search results below the fold in many cases).
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | Google's indexing is insanely quick too, I'll post a question
         | on Reddit and I search Google and the reddit thread is there
         | same day/minutes which is funny. False hope thinking someone
         | else had my problem but it's me.
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | Doesn't Google have some agreement with Reddit? They are
           | probably hooked into some kind of firehose stream and index
           | everything in basically real time.
        
       | avazhi wrote:
       | Not a fan of Google but I always find Gmail criticisms so weird.
       | 
       | Like, what does this guy even mean about the algorithm sorting
       | his inbox? Legit what the fuck is he talking about? Non junk mail
       | goes to my inbox. Spam goes to spam. What am I missing?
       | 
       | And speaking of spam, I have a bunch of proton mail accounts and
       | outlook accounts and iCloud mail accounts and Gmail's spam filter
       | is easily the best. Like, it's not even close. Protonmail is
       | nearly as bad as outlook at dealing with spam. It's impossible to
       | overstate how bad both of them are at filtering spam vs Gmail.
       | 
       | I legit feel like I'm either being actively gaslit or I'm
       | genuinely missing something big here.
       | 
       | As for search alternatives, I'd love to use Kagi full time but
       | the cost is just unreasonably high for now IMO.
        
         | r_lee wrote:
         | it's just someone who thinks degoogling himself has somehow
         | elevated his entire existence to the sky
         | 
         | I'm personally not so attached to this idea of Google being
         | evil so I don't really get this at all
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > Like, what does this guy even mean about the algorithm
         | sorting his inbox? Legit what the fuck is he talking about?
         | 
         | Gmail has a feature that can break your inbox into a priority
         | section and an everything else section. You have to put in some
         | work to flag and unflag messages based on what you think is
         | important. It's not perfect but with some training it's
         | helpful.
         | 
         | Some people turn it on and expect it to read their minds about
         | everything or think they can ignore the everything else
         | section.
         | 
         | You can just turn it back off. You don't have to leave Gmail.
         | 
         | > And speaking of spam, I have a bunch of proton mail accounts
         | and outlook accounts and iCloud mail accounts and Gmail's spam
         | filter is easily the best.
         | 
         | Agree. This person's reduced spam experience was due to the new
         | e-mail address and being disciplined about not signing up for a
         | million things on it, not because Proton is better.
        
         | chroma_zone wrote:
         | You may have turned this feature off (like I did) but by
         | default Gmail sorts your emails into categories like
         | Promotions, Social, Updates...
        
         | jhhh wrote:
         | Google had a feature in gmail for a long time that
         | automatically sorts your email into categories like Promotions,
         | Social, Updates, Forums, etc. It was automated and fairly
         | effective imo. If you try to disable the 'smart' features they
         | will then disable this categorization _retroactively_ and dump
         | thousands of emails in your inbox and then nag you about
         | turning it back on.
        
           | avazhi wrote:
           | I've clearly had it turned off for years(?) and I've never
           | had it nag about it.
        
         | liquid_thyme wrote:
         | Google takes money to bypass their spam filters. They call
         | those ads.
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | Kagi, Fastmail, Immich, LibreOffice are all excellent
       | alternatives to Google Garbage.
        
       | its-kostya wrote:
       | I haven't kept up with Gmail because I've left it many years ago,
       | but last I heard they give themselves the permission to parse
       | your emails and serve you targeted ads based on contents of
       | emails you receive.
       | 
       | If the thought of privacy doesn't turn you off, you must love the
       | thought of unsolicited marketing emails getting amplified through
       | ads that Google serves you.
        
         | rhcom2 wrote:
         | > last I heard they give themselves the permission to parse
         | your emails and serve you targeted ads based on contents of
         | emails you receive.
         | 
         | Stopped doing it in 2017 (according to them).
         | https://fox59.com/news/google-will-no-longer-read-your-email...
        
       | OrvalWintermute wrote:
       | > My conscious is a tiny bit cleaner
       | 
       | I think he meant my conscience.
       | 
       | Used to think Google was awesome when they were hyper accurate,
       | fast, and not enshittifying products.
       | 
       | Now I am convinced they are just a little bit better than Meta.
        
       | bitpush wrote:
       | > I don't knowingly use AI
       | 
       | > Sometimes I will use Kagi's "assistant" model whilst coding.
       | Particularly to clean up existing code/stylesheets
       | 
       | The only moral abortion is my abortion.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Kagi's models are also _incredibly_ bad. I can 't imagine how
         | this person believes they are getting fair value from them.
        
           | dpe82 wrote:
           | Kagi assistant includes all Anthropic, Google, OpenAI and
           | Grok models as well as all the common open weights models.
        
           | alexjplant wrote:
           | Kagi doesn't make any models in-house - they use closed-
           | source frontier models and OSS ones hosted by third-party
           | providers. The former are on par with their own vendors' chat
           | interface implementations (capabilities like file upload and
           | custom tool use excepted).
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | It's like a drug - getting off is not so easy for many people. I
       | still use youtube and a chromium-based browser. I want to become
       | google-free eventually.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | "Leaving Google" = "stopped using Google services" in this case
       | (vs. "quit working at Google")
        
         | hn_acc1 wrote:
         | I assumed it was related to employment as well.
        
       | WarmWash wrote:
       | The problem isn't Google.
       | 
       | The problem is that people want a "free internet" without ads,
       | and without any form of data harvesting. But they also don't want
       | to pay any money, because the internet, as we all know, "is
       | free".
       | 
       | In 30 years, no one has figured this out. So I feel pretty
       | confident in stating that it's either gonna be ads or payments.
       | And if we switch to a payment model, then the internet becomes
       | another system where the poor are naturally disadvantaged and the
       | rich get unlimited benefit, so I don't think any of the
       | complaining will go away anyway. Just a new set of problems.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | There are so many locked platform that I struggle to understand
         | the not paying part. Imagine a better Github Search (or ACM
         | search for papers), I bet it would find users.
        
         | bubblewand wrote:
         | Actually-free gets suppressed by free-with-ads. We don't know
         | how much the truly free hobbyist-volunteer ecosystem would pick
         | up without competition from ad-supported options (often with
         | deep pockets for advertising and promotion, plus monopolist
         | positioning to cross-promote with other products in some
         | cases). Ad-supported options suppress usership of truly free
         | options, which suppresses interest in volunteering time and
         | resources.
         | 
         | It also suppresses open protocols. Protocols stagnated as the
         | Internet centralized and commercialized for a reason. Some of
         | these things could just be protocols.
         | 
         | Not saying that would cover everything, but I am sure those two
         | factors would "step in" to replace some aspects of the ad-
         | supported Internet, if the ads went away. How much, I don't
         | know.
        
         | danny_codes wrote:
         | The options are ads, pay, or public funding. Public funding is
         | obviously the best option in many cases. For example, non-
         | profit basic internet services
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | I think the pay solution could potentially work. The biggest
           | issue is the decentralized nature of the internet. If I could
           | setup an account which gives me access to everything ad free,
           | but deducts what the page would earn in advertisement (say
           | something like $0.001 for a visit) and most of the internet
           | which does a pay wall participated in this scheme, then I'd
           | do it. I'd happily put in $10 to such an account and recharge
           | it when I start finding the internet being locked away.
           | 
           | You'd want such a platform to be relatively open to allow
           | anyone to participate, but you'd also have to be pretty
           | aggressive at policing as bad actors would be all over the
           | place trying to artificially drain an account. Maybe it's
           | something that could be built into the browser? You could get
           | a "X would like to charge you for a visit" which you could
           | approve or deny and you could configure to always approve.
           | 
           | Transaction fees would be a beast.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Critical services like email and search should be treated as a
         | public utility. Those cost money as well, but are affordable to
         | almost anyone, and social safety nets should be taking care of
         | those who don't.
        
           | bengale wrote:
           | Government email, sounds great. Sign me up.
        
             | sollewitt wrote:
             | Government physical mail is pretty great, you just need the
             | right regulations.
        
               | gameman144 wrote:
               | Government physical mail has the benefit that substantial
               | tampering is way harder to do at scale.
               | 
               | It's the same vein as criminals using cash vs Bitcoin;
               | both can hide crime, but one is way easier to scale up.
        
             | teaearlgraycold wrote:
             | The infra is what's expensive, and that doesn't need to be
             | able to read the contents of your email.
        
         | aaaronic wrote:
         | But some of Apple or Spotify Premium's recent moves Re:
         | advertising show that even those who _are paying_ end up
         | getting the ad experience eventually.
         | 
         | The old "If you aren't paying for a product, you're the
         | product." adage doesn't apply anymore when even if you're
         | paying, you're _still_ being productized.
         | 
         | The real problem is increasing concentration of _everything_
         | into ever-fewer (viable) players.
         | 
         | Doctorow's book "Enshittification" goes into way more examples
         | of this phenomenon (though I'm far less optimistic than he is
         | about the ability to reverse this trend).
        
           | yaky wrote:
           | Amazon Prime is the same way. Thanks for paying, please watch
           | ads for first two season of The Boys. Also look at this
           | catalog of movies you can rent for an additional fee.
           | 
           | The "low-cost airline" style of business.
        
         | BizarroLand wrote:
         | 1: If given the choice between ads or payments, megacorps will
         | always choose both. If the choice is between ads or payments or
         | data harvesting, megacorps will always choose all three.
         | 
         | 2: We pay for access to the internet. It's on the provider to
         | decide whether or not that level of access is sufficient. If it
         | is not, restrict access only to those who pay more, ala
         | Netflix/Hulu etc.
         | 
         | If I choose to put a publicly open service up onto the
         | internet, and people choose to use it, that shouldn't
         | automatically entitle me to spy on them, shovel ads down their
         | throats, track their every movement and human connection, and
         | then charge them for the privilege.
         | 
         | If I found out there was a person I knew who was doing that, I
         | would at least chew them out and exhort them to stop being a
         | worthless piece of shit, if I didn't kick their slimy asses for
         | doing it in the first place.
         | 
         | I'm ok with ads existing. I'm ok with paying for services that
         | charge for their services. I am not and will never be okay with
         | data harvesters, and if I ever meet one I'm going to tell them
         | to their face that they are shit people working for a shit
         | company doing shit things to innocent people and that they
         | should be ashamed.
         | 
         | If I meet someone who puts ads into paid services, I will do
         | the same.
         | 
         | In the meantime, I'm doing everything I can to cut those pieces
         | of crap out of my internet life.
        
         | sharifhsn wrote:
         | Government can subsidize the poor. Remember Obamaphones? Just
         | expand that idea.
        
           | dec0dedab0de wrote:
           | ...or the post office
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | > And if we switch to a payment model, then the internet
         | becomes another system where the poor are naturally
         | disadvantaged and the rich get unlimited benefit
         | 
         | As opposed to the current system where everyone is
         | disadvantaged and the rich get richer?
         | 
         | Every business transaction in history has had a producer and a
         | consumer, where both parties are in direct contact.
         | Advertisers, on the other hand, insert themselves in the
         | middle, promising to help both sides, while actually being a
         | leech without doing any of the work. It is a despicable
         | industry based on psychological manipulation, responsible for
         | countless deaths, the corruption of every form of media ever
         | invented, and of democratic processes throughout the world.
         | 
         | Sane business models are possible on the internet. Some of them
         | exist already. But it's too late now for any of them to gain
         | traction when advertisers are the same corporations that
         | control it, and they have convinced the world that their
         | products are "free".
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | The internet is not free. Somebody is paying for those ads. And
         | this somebody is us, collectively. And you know what? We are
         | paying more than if we would pay for these services directly,
         | because advertising companies are taking a cut. And on top of
         | that we are paying with our data.
        
           | yacthing wrote:
           | This is about as useful of an argument as when people say
           | taxpayer funded services aren't free.
           | 
           | Those who are wealthier pay more into the tax system, allow
           | those who are less well off to gain access to things they
           | normally wouldn't. This is a good thing.
           | 
           | Likewise, those who are wealthier are buying more products
           | that are advertised, allowing those who are less well off to
           | gain access to the internet for closer-to-free. This is also
           | a good thing.
           | 
           | We can put limits on how advertising is done, give control
           | over your data, etc etc. But the fundamentals stay the same.
           | 
           | So no: paying your way towards internet products won't save
           | the average person money.
        
             | jonahx wrote:
             | So the hellscape that is the ad-based internet economy is a
             | good thing because it's an indirect form of wealth
             | redistribution? That's a new one!
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | It's also a pricey form of wealth redistribution :(
        
         | yardstick wrote:
         | I agree.
         | 
         | 20-something years ago, when I paid for my internet connection,
         | I also got an email address (or 5...) and some personal web
         | space (5MB maybe?) and access to their NTP servers as part of
         | that. No ads.
         | 
         | Of course if I left the ISP I would lose access to it, as I
         | stopped paying for it. I've long since left the ISP, and
         | they've dropped all these value adds.
         | 
         | Presumably because people wanted cheaper plans and jumped to
         | other providers which did internet access and nothing else.
         | 
         | There are people willing to pay a reasonable amount for fair
         | services. I pay for various Google and Apple services,
         | including for email. Those that don't, have ads based plans.
        
           | dwayne_dibley wrote:
           | I miss the online storage. My ISP let you use it to host your
           | own site. So I hosted and tinkered - bliss
        
         | simon666 wrote:
         | > So I feel pretty confident in stating that it's either gonna
         | be ads or payments.
         | 
         | I'm assuming you mean exclusive disjunction here, but in
         | reality it's something closer to a conjunction, if not
         | occasionally an inclusive disjunction. So many subscription
         | services also have ads and if they don't, they eventually do.
         | 
         | The problem isn't that people want things for free; hell, we
         | all pay for access to the internet already. The problem is a
         | shit-ton of monied interests want to squeeze every possible
         | dollar from people always. So we're slammed with ads and our
         | behavior is manipulated and tracked and monetized and sold.
         | 
         | This was not how things were on the internet or the web in mid
         | 90s. It was not the ethos then, but it became the ethos when
         | monied interests took over.
        
           | Gooblebrai wrote:
           | > we all pay for access to the internet already
           | 
           | That will cover the physical infrastructure of your Internet
           | provider. But there are a lot of websites and software on the
           | internet that require either ads or payment to survive. Free
           | usually means "surviving with somebody else's money aka
           | investors"
        
           | saalweachter wrote:
           | Someone who is willing to pay for a service is also an
           | extremely desirable person to show advertisements to. You've
           | just demonstrated you have disposable income.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | I pay for Kagi primarily for this reason.
         | 
         | I think I get more than $10/month of value out of search
         | engines, and I would rather give money to a company instead of
         | them selling all my data and/or spamming me with a bunch of
         | advertisements. If I am _paying_ for something, then almost by
         | definition the company has a means of making revenue that
         | _doesn 't_ require ads.
         | 
         | I hate self-promotion but I wrote about this a bit ago [1], but
         | the TL;DR is that I think people are actually more willing to
         | pay for things if they actually _like_ those things. Something
         | Awful has fallen out of favor now, but for awhile people were
         | happy enough to buy an account because Something Awful was
         | _fun_ to be on [2], and a one-time $10 fee wasn 't enough to
         | "exclude" anyone, but it _did_ become a way to support the site
         | in the process. I don 't think this model was or is broken, I
         | think SA fell out of fashion because Lowtax stopped caring
         | after a certain point.
         | 
         | Kagi has been growing; I don't know if it's profitable yet, but
         | it has been steadily growing an audience and regardless of your
         | opinion on this specific service, I think this indicates that
         | people _will_ pay for things. At least some of us will.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://blog.tombert.com/Posts/Personal/2026/02-February/Peo...
         | 
         | [2] It actually still is! I bought a new account about a year
         | ago and I had forgotten how funny a lot of the posters actually
         | are. It's a blast.
        
         | duped wrote:
         | > But they also don't want to pay any money, because the
         | internet, as we all know, "is free".
         | 
         | I pay ~$150/month for internet itself. I pay close to $90/month
         | in internet services and media. I have coworkers spending
         | hundreds each month on multiple AI subscriptions just because
         | they have a better product for their work than Google. If
         | tiktok and reels cost money then people would be ripping copper
         | wire out of street lights to pay for it.
        
         | martin-t wrote:
         | Status and control are a currency too.
         | 
         | I worked on open source because I enjoyed the work and because
         | it had control over the final result. Other people did it
         | because of status it gave them in the community. There's plenty
         | of people willing to work on something for "free" (no money) as
         | long as they are compensated in other dimensions such as
         | ownership, status, control or simply enjoyment.
         | 
         | UBI could help here too, since those people still need to eat.
         | Or, society could admit how dependent it is on open source work
         | and pay maintainers and contributors from taxes.
         | 
         | The issue is obviously that most people don't even know what
         | open source is so it's not an interesting political debate
         | topic.
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | To some extend it feels like Google just gave up on search. I
       | don't really share the notion that Google is still better than
       | e.g. DuckDuckGo or Ecosia. In my experience if Ecosia can't find
       | something, neither can Google.
       | 
       | However, I've noticed that search seems to become less and less
       | useful, like huge chucks of the net is just missing. A ton of
       | pages also doesn't really make their content searchable, in the
       | sense that videos and images aren't tagged in any meaningful why.
       | 
       | Mostly I feel the internet shrinking around me, the number of
       | pages I go to becomes fewer and fewer. Brand new topics/content
       | mostly comes from blogs recommended by friends and colleague.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | > After giving them a fair shot, I think I can now honestly say
       | that Brave and DuckDuckGo are better than Google for >90% of
       | searches
       | 
       | I still scratch my head how DuckDuckGo has made people excited
       | for Bing search results in a way Microsoft never has.
        
       | nvr219 wrote:
       | I use fastmail and kagi and love both. I wonder what OP is using
       | instead of google docs for live co-authoring... Word Online? lol
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | > I wonder what OP is using instead of google docs for live co-
         | authoring
         | 
         | Probably nothing? It's not like that's a need that everyone
         | has.
        
         | spacebear wrote:
         | Not the OP, but I alternate between self-hosted instances of
         | Outline (https://www.getoutline.com/) and Nextcloud (with
         | Collabora) for this. Outline I actually like better than Google
         | Docs for most things. Nextcloud is a little rough, but it has
         | change tracking, which I need sometimes.
         | 
         | I've also seen a lot of people using Cryptpad recently, which I
         | think wraps OnlyOffice.
        
       | realprimoh wrote:
       | This being on the front page of hacker news is embarassing. Low
       | substance post that is misleading if anything - I was hoping for
       | a career reflection. Not a low-quality "pat on the back" post of
       | no value
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | This is the daily "Google is bad" post. Best to ignore it and
         | move on.
        
         | wavemode wrote:
         | Your comment is of even less value than the article. The fact
         | that you find this subject matter uninteresting, is also
         | uninteresting. Clearly other people feel differently.
        
         | raincole wrote:
         | HK likes bashing big corps, but Google is the special soft spot
         | for us. By 'soft' I mean easy to punch.
        
       | JohnMakin wrote:
       | "conscience," not "conscious."
        
       | thallavajhula wrote:
       | I used to have a custom domain setup via Google apps. Google
       | decided to update it to something else (they changed their name
       | several times and I lost track of the name now). I switched to
       | iCloud+ Mail when iCloud introduced their custom domain support a
       | few years ago. I do have notification summaries on my iOS turned
       | on, but that's just a guilty pleasure of mine. The summarization
       | is so bad that it's funny. I literally have the summarization
       | feature turned on to laugh at how bad it is every time I see a
       | new summary. Anyway, I used to be a everything-Google guy. Now, I
       | just spread my app usage across multiple services, which I think
       | is a win for me in the long run instead of being locked in to an
       | ecosystem.
       | 
       | I also got myself out of the most of the Apple products from the
       | Apple ecosystem too. I'm a 1Password user because I didn't want
       | to be part of Google or Apple ecosystems.
        
       | johnbarron wrote:
       | "How to replace Amazon, Google, X, Meta, Apple - and more" -
       | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/feb/26/how-to-re...
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | AI is an area where having decades of private data hosted and
       | indexed by a third party is actually paying off with a direct
       | return (vs just using it to surface ads). All moral qualms about
       | FOSS and whatever else aside, asking a question in plain english
       | and having an "AI assistant" digging through years' worth of
       | photos, emails, events, chats, restaurant reservations and more
       | and returning an incredibly detailed answer that no person ever
       | could feels like the magic of tech being realized in front of our
       | eyes.
       | 
       | Would I prefer this was all open technology instead? Yeah, of
       | course. But it is abundantly clear that economic incentives don't
       | allow open source to compete with the big players, and that's
       | just how it is.
        
       | ajross wrote:
       | Some of this is... pretty tortured:
       | 
       | > Leaving Gmail also gave me the opportunity to start
       | implementing better digital hygiene.
       | 
       | Which is to say, everyone else's spam filtering is awful, so you
       | need to restrict access to your email so they don't fill your
       | inbox.
       | 
       | This is literally the same logic that says we shouldn't vaccinate
       | women against HPV because then they won't learn to practice
       | abstinence.
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | Some of Google's products have really dropped in quality. In the
       | past 5 or so years all the changes I've seen in Search, Youtube,
       | and Gmail have been for the worse.
        
       | arcade79 wrote:
       | Leaving Google was the best thing I did, some 10 years ago. It
       | reduced my stress level dramatically. I had no idea about how
       | stressed I was at G. The release, when leaving, was immense.
       | 
       | Never ever, will I return to big tech.
       | 
       | However, having said that, never ever, will I regret having
       | joined. It was an amazing journey.
        
       | trilogic wrote:
       | Leaving googles is for GROWN UPS and independent Individs. The
       | ones that need to see more, to get out of the egg.
       | 
       | I self host (feels damn great) but still check my old, antique,
       | gmail once every 3-4 months. Makes me smile and say, I was one of
       | them.
        
       | dtj1123 wrote:
       | Startpage is good
        
       | asim wrote:
       | This is very interesting and timely. I've been working on
       | something to replace a lot of addictive or exploitive services we
       | use today but there's some caveats. Will people pay? They pay for
       | Kagi but will they generally pay for other things like news,
       | maps, video, chat, weather, etc. The second question is what's
       | stopping people from really quitting? I get the feeling it's sort
       | of habits that we get stuck with. Even I still use Google. But
       | the mention of brave and knowing brave has a generous free search
       | tier for their api makes me think it's possible to replace Google
       | search. But habits die hard. New habit formation may require an
       | alternative approach hence so many buying into ChatGPT.
       | 
       | One issue I also find with this sort of thing. It's hard to have
       | a longer discussion that leads to building good alternatives. A
       | thread appears, we comment and then it disappears. There needs to
       | be more public discourse that leads to tangible results... To
       | real issues that get solved.
        
       | stephantul wrote:
       | Ecosia is not just Bing, we offer a bunch of indexes, including
       | bing and Google.
       | 
       | We're moving to our own index, which we are building in
       | collaboration with Qwant, under the name European Search
       | Perspective.
       | 
       | I do see the point of the article however.
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | I love Qwant and I think it works better than DuckDuckGo.
         | 
         | I can't wait for the European index.
        
         | NittLion78 wrote:
         | I can testify that Qwant, if nothing else, is a superior image
         | search engine (basically does what GIS used to do 10-15 years
         | ago) and it's better for just getting to a quick answer without
         | your first 4 results being ad-driven.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, when needing to do deeper dives on things,
         | Google is still more or less the best for results past the
         | first page in my experience, though it's rare I need to dig
         | that deep these days.
        
       | charonn0 wrote:
       | > I can't think of any other differentiating features in Gmail.
       | Ads in my mail? Nostalgia?
       | 
       | Originally, the differentiating features were multi-gigabyte
       | storage limits and the public's goodwill towards Google, Inc.
       | 
       | Gigabyte storage is now the norm, public goodwill for Alphabet,
       | Inc. is minimal, and so there's nothing that really sets Gmail
       | apart anymore.
        
       | prideout wrote:
       | This is not written by a former Google employee, it's written by
       | a former Google user. Confusing title to see on hackernews.
        
         | jcgrillo wrote:
         | It took me until the 3rd paragraph to figure this out
        
       | aalukabi wrote:
       | I tried DDG for a while but got frustrated because it wasn't
       | giving me what I was actually looking for. Now I'm using Google
       | with the Searchonymous add-on, which has helped me get much wider
       | results, uninfluenced by my previous search history.
        
       | dlev_pika wrote:
       | Brave and DuckDuck have been my defaults for a long time.
       | 
       | There are two reasons I can think I use Google and Chrome for:
       | 
       | - Search: If I want to be sold something - say I'm in the market
       | for an electric heater, I'll search for it on Google to be
       | tracked and advertised.
       | 
       | - Chrome: because there are some flows and UX that simply don't
       | work well in other browsers
        
       | jajuuka wrote:
       | These types of articles always remind of conspiracy theorists.
       | Being so excited to view something in a new way, to degradate
       | something popular, to view themselves as unique individuals and
       | in control again. That they are outside the mainstream and that
       | is superior because they have the secret knowledge.
       | 
       | Also the "if something is free you are the product" is so
       | obviously false if you think about it for a minute. A lot of
       | people pay for Amazon Prime, yet they are still the product. Just
       | because you had a company money does not mean they will won't
       | maximize profit by monetizing your information. Not to mention
       | Blender is free. Are they the product as well? It's just a saying
       | with good mouth feel and nothing else. Definitely not something
       | anyone should change their life around for.
        
       | alex1138 wrote:
       | Is there a legitimate reason why only Google can trawl Reddit or
       | is it just more monopolistic bullshit?
        
       | karmelapple wrote:
       | I used to use DuckDuckGo, until I realized I was using "!g" far
       | too often.
       | 
       | Then I tried Kagi, and I find that works the majority of the
       | time, including their AI. Someone else in the comments here said
       | Kagi's AI models are bad, but I don't think they are for
       | answering the fairly basic questions that I typically search. I'm
       | not going to have Kagi's AI model refactor code or something
       | though.
        
       | elxr wrote:
       | > actively improved my life
       | 
       | Doesn't clarify beyond some trite remarks with no actual proof.
        
         | pkilgore wrote:
         | > actual proof
         | 
         | You don't think their own opinion of their own life isn't self-
         | evident proof?
        
       | TeeWEE wrote:
       | I hardly use Google anymore. I almost always use Claude. It can
       | do the "higher level task" I often want to accomplish when I go
       | to google.
       | 
       | Claude checks multiples websites, reads them all, and answers my
       | question.
        
       | dismalaf wrote:
       | Pro tip: Gemini Flash is the new Google. Bypasses all the SEO and
       | ad garbage.
       | 
       | Also I still haven't found anything that replaces Google for
       | finding local, physical businesses.
       | 
       | And Gmail? I have it mainly to give to random businesses. I like
       | Hey.com more but I don't want the utility company or some online
       | service I barely care about cluttering it up.
       | 
       | Also there is no YouTube equivalent. They pay creators the most
       | so creators are all on YouTube.
        
       | alabhyajindal wrote:
       | I can highly recommend Brave Search to anyone who is looking for
       | an alternative. I found it to be much better than DuckDuckGo.
       | Feels like Kagi almost, but free.
        
       | hosteur wrote:
       | Just use Kagi. I have been for several years now. I have not
       | regretted it one minute. I have not missed Google at all. Kagi is
       | just so much better. And I like the business model.
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | It is better, I was a paying subscriber. Then I realised they
         | pay money to Yandex and I feel and obligation to support
         | Ukraine right now. When the war is over or Kagi drop Yandex
         | support I will be a paying subscriber again.
        
       | andrewk17 wrote:
       | I spent the effort to de-google a several years back and switched
       | to Proton. After years of being on Proton, I recently switched
       | back to GMail.
       | 
       | It didn't really make my life any better. And at this point, I
       | think I see more value in having AI be able to piece together
       | information to serve me up useful information than trying to
       | protect my privacy within email (I couldn't get off Google
       | Photos, it's just too useful).
        
       | Sparkyte wrote:
       | I've been piholing everything. Duckduckgo can feel clunky at
       | times and having more than one search engine is a blessing.
       | Duckduckgo is for obscure direct searches where as Google for me
       | is the popular enriched searches.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | Just because Kagi is always mentioned in these type of posts, I
       | can see already there's a lot of posts.
       | 
       | https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...
        
       | Willish42 wrote:
       | I've been meaning to get off Gmail, and Proton Mail does seem
       | like my favorite of the alternatives from a quick glance, but I'm
       | also concerned about privacy focused services like Proton getting
       | blocked or compromised in the US... This was a pretty good read
       | 
       | Also,
       | 
       | > I do my best to boycott bad things. And I fail pretty often. I
       | still use Amazon on occasion and I can't get off Spotify. I use
       | Uber and DoorDash a lot more than I'd like. And I have too many
       | Apple products/services.
       | 
       | OK, I can intuit why most of those are bad, but can somebody give
       | me a good-faith interpretation on what's bad about Apple?
       | 
       | I'd assume it's the working conditions and material extraction
       | processes in China, parts of Africa, and elsewhere, but isn't
       | that true of every piece of consumer technology? The only better
       | companies for consumer hardware that come to mind are Framework
       | and Google for recycling parts and raw materials, but the whole
       | point of the article is about de-googling and Framework's
       | products are relatively niche and at a much lower price and
       | performance / market category.
        
         | herrherrmann wrote:
         | Apple is very anti-consumer, locking devices down, using
         | planned obsolescence, fighting hard against movements for more
         | open and fairer market practices and standards (e.g. switching
         | to the standard USB-C port, allowing third-party app stores,
         | exploiting developers releasing software on their platforms).
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | Or as I tell my Apple-philic tech friends: your devices are a
           | single year of flat revenue away from user-hostile decisions.
           | 
           | At the end of the day, Apple exists to make money and keep
           | shareholders happy.
           | 
           | If the business stops growing organically, do you really
           | think they're going to benevolently use the massive control
           | they have over their own platform?
           | 
           | "Apple" isn't privacy-focused. Their marketing strategy is
           | _currently_ privacy-focused and their economics _currently_
           | permit them to be.
        
         | tetrisgm wrote:
         | I switched from Fastmail to iCloud Mail and I'm happy.
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | I used to hate the google AI summaries, but recently its like a
       | switch flipped and im finding them actually useful.
       | 
       | Especially when my search query is looking up something basic
       | from the docs (like say library function name or argument order),
       | it really just answers what i want.
       | 
       | Of course a big part of the problem is that google is inundated
       | with seo spam when it comes to programming topics .
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | Wait till you move over to something like Kagi. It's really like
       | an elevated experience when it comes to search. At first it's
       | just less ads and none of that Google BS, but then eventually you
       | start to use their other features. You realize, search could have
       | moved in this direction a long time ago if Google wasn't
       | motivated by ads.
        
       | highwaylights wrote:
       | You had me until Proton. I bang this drum every so often when it
       | comes up but I've had terrible experiences with Proton locking me
       | out of email permanently without warning or explanation in a way
       | that made not just the email address but the accounts linked to
       | it completely unrecoverable.
       | 
       | Don't play around with email. It's not communication, it's
       | critical digital infrastructure - quite possibly your primary key
       | on the internet. The consequences of getting locked out by a
       | faceless provider for reasons you'll never hear about are
       | probably a lot bigger than you think.
        
       | arthurjj wrote:
       | I was thrown by
       | 
       | > I do my best to boycott bad things. And I fail pretty often. I
       | still use Amazon on occasion and I can't get off Spotify. I use
       | Uber and DoorDash a lot more than I'd like. And I have too many
       | Apple products/services.
       | 
       | > Individual actions probably will not save the world, but big
       | tech is bad
       | 
       | It's weird to see this without any context or justification or
       | comparison to other industries. As if it's so self evidently true
       | that the author never considered the reader might dismiss his
       | wider point when coming across it with no explanation
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | He lost me at paying for services. Sure, me in my 40s can afford
       | to pay for a good 200$ worth of services, but when I was starting
       | out in high school and college, I could not even fathom paying
       | for anything. And that was the time I was doing real work in my
       | life, not like now.
       | 
       | I don't know what this allergy to features are. You can disable
       | the features. It is not hard. I remember when they used to force
       | conversation feature down everyone's throats. Some oldies hated
       | it, but when they got used to it they appreciated it. Now they
       | have an off feature.
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | Couldn't agree more. Kagi for search, Fastmail for e-mail, Apple
       | Maps for navigation (though I rely on Google Maps for reviews).
       | Once a realistic not-Office 365 alternative for docs and
       | spreadsheets appears, I'm going to bail on Drive too.
       | 
       | I've used Fastmail for a year now and haven't missed Gmail for a
       | second. It even natively supports iOS push notifications for
       | Mail, something Google refuses to implement.
       | 
       | Same with Kagi. I love having control over my search results, and
       | custom bangs is life.
        
       | barnacs wrote:
       | I highly recommend self-hosting a meta-search engine to get away
       | from any single provider without losing the benefits of either. I
       | have been using searx[0] happily for years.
       | 
       | [0]: https://github.com/searxng/searxng
        
       | Telemakhos wrote:
       | I don't even use Google's regular search that often... but I'm
       | addicted to Google Books, and nobody is offering to replace that.
       | Google Scholar is also amazing. In those niche spaces, Google is
       | a defacto monopoly.
        
       | dandano wrote:
       | > My inbox is so much cleaner now, and I patiently await the
       | newsletters I've signed up for like a gleeful child waiting for
       | the postman.
       | 
       | The author didn't go into detail here - but has anyone got a good
       | system to achieve this? Or Is it a specific feature within
       | Proton? I've just got mainly the one email and I've wanted to
       | change to a better way for ages.
        
       | QuiEgo wrote:
       | FWIW Google Gemini is currently like the Google of old - the
       | search pretty much always finds what I want with no b.s..
       | 
       | I'm sure someday it will be aggressively monetized and
       | enshitified but enjoying it while it lasts.
        
       | jmspring wrote:
       | I'm in the process of de-googling. It will take time (changing
       | third party contact emails - banks, etc is annoying) - I honestly
       | wish there was the equivalent of "moving" where emails could be
       | updated the same way.
       | 
       | DDG - I love the premise, but their search relies too heavily on
       | Bing which - worked for msft, etc... - no idea why it sucks so
       | much.
       | 
       | Claude/etc for search - artificial guardrails. "Hey give me an
       | example of Charlie Kirk being a homophobe" - "I can't do that".
       | Contrived example, but realistic result.
       | 
       | Google started out as a non-opinionated (outside of link weight)
       | search engine that is now gemini and bs. But even search is not
       | useful. DDG tries, but responses are sub-par.
        
       | pkilgore wrote:
       | Fastmail and Kagi are not noticeable expenses (to me) but are a
       | noticeable increase in quality of life.
       | 
       | Might not have been true at one point but if you can spare the
       | cost I highly recommend either.
        
       | rappatic wrote:
       | This is the way. Vote with your wallet!
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | It is very easy to get rid of Google, at least for the kind of
       | person on HN.
       | 
       | Search -> DuckDuckGo
       | 
       | Drive -> Own networked file server
       | 
       | Phone -> Flash Graphene on your Pixel
       | 
       | Browser -> Firefox
       | 
       | Email -> Host your own (this is the hardest)
       | 
       | Youtube -> uBlock Origin (for Firefox), logged out
       | 
       | The last one isn't really a replacement, but Google certainly
       | isn't making any money. Now do the same with Apple and Microsoft
       | by running Linux on your machines and you are close to 100% free
       | of big tech.
        
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