[HN Gopher] ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yie...
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ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more
chips by 2030
Author : pieterr
Score : 197 points
Date : 2026-02-23 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| throw0101a wrote:
| So how small are individual components (e.g., transistors)
| nowadays? Presumably there's a lower limit: once you're a few
| atoms across, it seems that you can't go any smaller (?).
| whazor wrote:
| This is about increasing output per machine via upgrades.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_nm_process
| hinkley wrote:
| I still think we should have gone with average gates per
| square mm as a new yardstick. It would also make sense to the
| Numbers Go Up people.
| itopaloglu83 wrote:
| It's going to be quite funny if they can go below 40nm in
| gate pitch size, because they'll need to call it 0nm.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| They are moving to angstroms, hence 18A for example.
| ahazred8ta wrote:
| Gates are about 30-50 nm wide, even though they're called '3nm'
| for marketing reasons.
| phkahler wrote:
| Metal pitch is 26nm. That means parallel wires can be placed
| 2 wavelengths apart with 13.5nm light.
| penguin_booze wrote:
| Like free range chicken.
| kakacik wrote:
| You only need to live in reasonable place for that phrase
| to have a proper meaning, across whole market from cheapest
| to most expensive.
| cyptus wrote:
| some gates are only 10-14 nm wide, thats about 50 silicon
| atoms!
| et1337 wrote:
| This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated
| (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L
| hinkley wrote:
| The whole "exploding tiny drops of metal" in the middle of this
| is just Loony Toons. This machine is literally insane and two
| of the companies I am long-long on would be completely fucked
| without it.
| patmorgan23 wrote:
| You forgot WITH LASERS, and IN A VACUUM
| atonse wrote:
| Yes it was crazy when I first heard about it "wait what? they
| shoot it in mid-air?" and that was before I found out they
| did that like 30k times a second.
|
| But now 100k times a second apparently. Humans are amazing.
| hinkley wrote:
| You have a machine that's basically a clean room inside and
| one of the parts is essentially electrosputtering tin but
| then throwing all the tin away and using the EM pulse from
| the sputter to do work.
|
| Oh and can you build it so it can run hundreds or thousands
| of hours before being cleaned? Thanks byyyyyyyyeeeeee!
| lelandbatey wrote:
| The inside of those machines are far, far cleaner than
| the inside of any clean room ever entered by a human.
| They have to be _molecularly_ clean.
| b3orn wrote:
| Which isn't easy considering they explode tin droplets in
| the machine. I think that's the point the other commenter
| wanted to make.
| flowerthoughts wrote:
| > We are going to spray expensive stuff in an extremely
| fine and precise line. Then we're going to shoot a laser at
| each droplet.
|
| < Why?!
|
| > To make a better laser.
|
| < Yes, of course you are.
|
| > 100,000 times per second.
|
| < [AFK, buying shares.]
| hinkley wrote:
| I have shares in one of their biggest customers, and one
| of their customer's biggest customers.
|
| We are quickly leaving the realm of dependent variables
| still looking anything like diversification.
| culi wrote:
| Here's your link without the surveillance
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0
| skrebbel wrote:
| With _slightly less_ surveillance
| lencastre wrote:
| try duck player
| hinkley wrote:
| Okay this is weird.
|
| > The key advancements in Monday's disclosure involved doubling
| the number of tin drops to about 100,000 every second, and
| shaping them into plasma using two smaller laser bursts, as
| opposed to today's machines that use a single shaping burst.
|
| This is covered in that video. Did they let him leak their Q1
| plans?
| hobofan wrote:
| That has been covered before in other videos[0] that this is
| their roadmap to higher power, so I'm also not sure what they
| have announced now that wasn't previously announced.
|
| [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXnrzS3aGeM
| eddyg wrote:
| Or this video, which came out _before_ Veritasium 's
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2482h_TNwg
| Hikikomori wrote:
| https://youtu.be/NGFhc8R_uO4
|
| Or this presentation which came out way long ago.
| kristjansson wrote:
| This is worth the (re)watch every time it comes up.
| EnPissant wrote:
| I thought this video was a lot better than the Veritasium
| video. The Veritasium video was awkward. I think they tried
| to follow the formula from the (excellent) blue led video
| that performed so well, but it just didn't work.
| seanalltogether wrote:
| The thing I didn't understand after watching that video was why
| you need such an exotic solution to produce EUV light. We can
| make lights no problem in the visible spectrum, we can make
| xray machines easily enough that every doctors office can
| afford one, what is it specifically about those wavelengths
| that are so tricky.
| on_the_train wrote:
| It really is the specific wavelength. Higher or lower is
| easier. But euv has tricky properties which make it feasible
| for Lithography (although just barely it you have a look at
| the optics) but hard to produce with high intensities.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| Any source to this? I am hearing this for the first time.
| s0rce wrote:
| ITs easy to make X-rays, you just hit a metal target with
| electrons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Specifically, what makes x-rays easy to generate are these:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristic_X-ray In
| essence, smashing electrons into atoms allows you to ionize
| the _inner shell_ of an atom and when an electron drops
| down from an outer shell, the excess energy is shed as
| high-energy photons. This constrains the energy range of
| X-ray tubes ( "smash electron into metal") to wavelengths
| well below 13.5nm.
|
| (These emission lines are also what is being used in x-ray
| spectroscopy to identify elements)
| s0rce wrote:
| You can also generate broad spectrum bremsstrahlung
| radiation easily, this is widely used for medical X-rays.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| There is such a thing as X-ray lithography, but it comes with
| significant challenges that make it not really worth it
| compared to EUV.
| bpavuk wrote:
| I'd like to hear more about these challenges
| magicalhippo wrote:
| As I understand it, primarly because due to the high
| energy level of x-rays, light x-ray interacts very
| differently with materials[1]. Primarily they get
| absorbed, so very difficult to make mirrors or lenses,
| which are crucial for litography to redirect and focus
| the light on a specific miniscule point on the wafer.
|
| The primary method is to rely grazing angle reflection,
| but that per definition only allows you a tiny deflection
| at a time, nothing like a parabolic mirror or whatnot.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics
| newswasboring wrote:
| All of these problems or equivalent still exist in EUV.
| Litho industry had to kind of rethink the source and
| scanner because it went from all lenses to all mirrors in
| EUV. This is also why low NA and high NA EUV scanners
| were different phases.
|
| As I hear it, the decision had large economic component
| related to Masks and even OPC.
| on_the_train wrote:
| This is a steep increase of power to get out of a vacuum system
| that is highly sensitive to temperature changes.
| onjectic wrote:
| > SAN DIEGO, California
|
| > to help retain the Dutch company's edge over emerging U.S. and
| Chinese rivals
|
| Great news, but what a strange attempt to equate the U.S. and
| China in this and build a narrative. Cymer was founded in San
| Diego.
| petcat wrote:
| Yeah it's an interesting angle in the article. The EUV light
| source technology is completely designed, developed, and
| manufactured by Cymer in California, which is a US company that
| ASML acquired in 2013. If export control agreements were not in
| place then ASML would have never been permitted to acquire
| Cymer. And if they are not enforced then the US would almost
| certainly require ASML to sell Cymer back to US ownership,
| TikTok-style.
|
| The reality is that it's American technology that is used in
| ASML machines so I don't know why the article tries to frame it
| like it's a competition.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| Which American rival would that be anyway? I have not heard
| of any.
| petcat wrote:
| xLight is the promising new US competitor to Cymer. Lots of
| funding from the US CHIPS And Science Act. Founded by Dept.
| of Energy engineers who formerly worked on large-scale
| X-Ray systems and particle accelerators.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| Oh, alright. I was thinking of full lithography machines.
| merb wrote:
| Your take is also a bad one. No what asml builds is not
| American technology. Why asml succeeded is because they got
| tons of company's and people to help them advance the
| technology of the chip industry. Yes it wouldn't be possible
| without the Americans. But it would also not be possible
| without the Europeans, the Koreans, etc... what asml did was
| basically ask the technology leaders in each field to build
| their best product so that they can take their parts and
| assembly this awesome piece of technology.
| adrian_b wrote:
| There is much more in an ASML machine, besides the UV source.
|
| So the ASML machines combine technologies developed in
| various places, not only in USA, even if the UV source is
| indeed a critical component. While an ASML machine would not
| work without the UV source, it would also not work without
| many other critical optical and mechanical components.
|
| If it were so easy to make a lithography machine when you
| have a UV source, Cymer would have remained an independent
| company or it would have been bought by a US company. Cymer
| has been bought by their only customer.
|
| The same happens when you look at a PC, it is likely that it
| contains something essential that comes from USA, i.e. the
| CPU logic may be designed by AMD, but the manufacturing
| technology is designed in Taiwan, the memories may be
| designed and made in Korea, other chips may be designed and
| made in Taiwan, other components come from Japan, the PCB may
| have been designed in Taiwan, but actually made in China, and
| so on.
|
| So yes, it has some important US technology in it, but there
| is a very long way from a CPU logic design to a physical
| computer and most of that rarely has anything to do with USA.
|
| The same happens with an ASML machine.
| christkv wrote:
| I think the Japanese are also working on potentially competing
| technology
| xnx wrote:
| > The company's researchers have found a way to boost the power
| of the EUV light source to 1,000 watts from 600 watts now.
|
| > "We see a reasonably clear path toward 1,500 watts, and no
| fundamental reason why we couldn't get to 2,000 watts."
| tromp wrote:
| The light power increase is even more impressive at 67%:
|
| > The company's researchers have found a way to boost the power
| of the EUV light source to 1,000 watts from 600 watts now.
|
| with more on the horizon:
|
| > We see a reasonably clear path toward 1,500 watts, and no
| fundamental reason why we couldn't get to 2,000 watts.
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