[HN Gopher] 'Viking' was a job description, not a matter of here...
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       'Viking' was a job description, not a matter of heredity: Ancient
       DNA study
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 128 points
       Date   : 2026-02-21 13:24 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.science.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
        
       | barrenko wrote:
       | The OG founders.
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | I suspect this is an example of us seeing history through a
       | mdoern lens and making false assumptions. For example, the idea
       | that a nation project or an empire is genetically homogenous is a
       | relatively modern concept. The truth is that empires incorporated
       | various ethnic groups and those ethnic groups survived for long
       | periods of time.
       | 
       | The Roman Empire at times extended all the way from England to
       | the Persian Gulf. It included various Celtic people, North
       | Africans, people from the Balkans, Turkic people and people from
       | the Middle East. At no point did these people become ethnically
       | homogenous but they all very much Romanized.
       | 
       | The British Empire spanned the globe.
       | 
       | In more modern times the Austro-Hungarian Empire included a dozen
       | or more ethnic groups and languages.
       | 
       | Would we describe being Roman, a Briton or an Austro-Hungarian as
       | a "job"? I don't think so.
        
         | eightysixfour wrote:
         | > Would we describe being Roman, a Briton or an Austro-
         | Hungarian as a "job"? I don't think so.
         | 
         | I think this is the articles point. We would not consider being
         | Roman a job, but we would consider being a Legionary a job.
         | 
         | The article is arguing "Viking" is more "Legionary" than
         | "Roman."
        
         | QuercusMax wrote:
         | The entire point of the article is that they called themselves
         | collectively Norsemen. Going 'viking' (raiding) was an activity
         | done by 'vikings' (raiders).
        
       | guywithahat wrote:
       | I feel like this is common in most (at least western) empires.
       | Vikings from Sweden would take over territory as far as Poland or
       | even Italy and recruit new soldiers. Eventually some of them
       | would end up in warrior style graves. What's actually more
       | interesting in my mind is that they didn't bring people back, and
       | so the gene pool in Sweden remained more or less unchanged
        
         | paleotrope wrote:
         | The slave trade only went south.
        
       | ecshafer wrote:
       | I am not sure why they used this title for this study as that is
       | not the important part. We already have known Viking was a job
       | description, thats been known for hundreds of years. We also knew
       | that viking settlement was widespread. This study used DNA
       | sequencing to settle the debate on if vikings from certain areas
       | went to certain areas, and if they mixed. It seems to confirm the
       | theory that the norse did NOT mix, and traded, raided and settled
       | different areas separately.
        
         | beloch wrote:
         | The title is indeed odd.
         | 
         | The new (to me, at least) idea here is that the different
         | regions of Scandinavia didn't mix as much, "on the job" or
         | genetically, as I thought they would have. They each carved out
         | their own territories and mixed with the local population, but
         | not with each other to a significant degree. It's surprising to
         | find that more genetic material was making it's way back to
         | parts of Scandinavia from those far-flung regions than from
         | neighbouring Scandinavian countries.
        
           | bryanrasmussen wrote:
           | maybe you hate your neighbors more than you hate the exotic
           | foreign visitor?
           | 
           | hmm, of course current news would rather undermine that
           | theory, but maybe today's exotic foreign countries are about
           | as close as neighboring countries were back in Viking times.
        
             | beloch wrote:
             | It's a distasteful, but relevant, aspect of vikings that
             | they were slavers as well as raiders. If you went viking, a
             | large part of the booty you brought back walked on two legs
             | and had genes to pass on. Perhaps the Norse liked their
             | neighbours just enough not to make many of them "visitors".
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | doubtful given histories of the area, however maybe they
               | disliked getting retaliation for a raid.
        
           | vintermann wrote:
           | A historian I respect - don't want to name him in case I
           | accidentally misrepresent his ideas - has speculated that the
           | Norse didn't mix with the Sami because having a separate
           | tribe of hunters (no major reindeer farming back then) was
           | useful to them. Almost like a caste. If people live side by
           | side for 1000s of years, I think that's fair to speculate -
           | there has to be a reason they didn't just assimilate into
           | each other.
           | 
           | After the Danes returned to Greeland and first met the Inuit,
           | the priests pushed for religious and cultural assimilation.
           | Not strictly speaking linguistic assimilation, since they
           | were good protestants who believed everyone had a right to
           | hear the gospel in their own language, but it seems likely
           | the language would have disappeared eventually if they got
           | their way.
           | 
           | But the mercantile class in Denmark resisted development
           | efforts, because if the Greenlanders became just another
           | European people under the Danish crown, exploiting trade with
           | them might become less profitable. People who were willing to
           | live without European material comforts, such as they were,
           | yet would sell you highly lucrative trade goods in return for
           | comparatively little. The policy may have saved their
           | language and culture, but at the cost of crippling economic
           | development for a long time.
           | 
           | Maybe it was like that with the frontier/foraging Sami in the
           | past, too. Kept apart in order to be easier to exploit
           | economically. Though already in Harald Fairhair's day, it
           | seems there were also Sami living among the Norse as
           | boatwrights and smiths and maybe also as wandering
           | professional hunters, hunting livestock predators for
           | bounties - we know that kept going for a long time.
           | 
           | Another historian, which I will name - Johan Borgos - has
           | written that the Lofoten islands were roughly 1 / 5 Sami, and
           | that it was priests, the social elite, who first broke the
           | taboo on marrying across the language barrier. Once they had
           | done it, common people started doing it too, and so the
           | language died out in that place. Not really from deliberate
           | suppression effort (that came much later), but simply from
           | "well, our parents speak different languages but most of the
           | people we interact with speak Norwegian, so..."
           | 
           | Segregation can "work wonders" for preserving language and
           | culture, but it's obviously often not a good thing. And to
           | some degree, I think we have to respect our ancestors choices
           | that they wanted bakeries, horn orchestras, cinemas,
           | photography studios, tuberculosis sanatoriums, teetotaller
           | lodges, baptists and salvationists, steam ships, traveling
           | circuses, gymnastic competitions, revue theater etc. etc. in
           | short everything modern, coded as "Norwegian" to them -
           | rather than joik and reindeer and the few exotic things coded
           | as Sami.
        
             | amarant wrote:
             | I don't give much credence to the theory though, having
             | grown up in a part of Sweden where every village have their
             | own "language"(we call them mal, which is like halfway
             | between dialect and language, they're not officially
             | recognised as minority languages, but they're more than
             | just dialects: villages as little as 30km apart can't
             | understand eachother at all, and one of them, Alvdalsmal,
             | is notoriously more similar to Icelandic than it is too
             | Swedish)
             | 
             | These are Swedish communities, as opposed to Sami ones,
             | they've been integrated into the wider Swedish society
             | since their founding, yet these languages are still alive
             | today(though some are critically endangered)
        
               | vintermann wrote:
               | There are degrees of integration. People from Alvdalen,
               | should they choose to, could move to Stockholm and change
               | their dialect (one of the ways you know it's a dialect,
               | is that they understand you much better than you
               | understand them). It's been that way for a long time.
               | 
               | And from what I understand Alvdalsmal is, like all
               | dialects, getting rounded at the corners and getting more
               | understandable to other Swedes.
               | 
               | Even dialects that sound incomprehensible at first, if
               | you're a native speaker you'll get used to it quickly.
               | The difficulty of Alvdalska is superficial, it's actually
               | very close to what you're used to, so you'll learn to
               | understand them and they already know how to understand
               | you.
               | 
               | Sami is completely different. It takes a long time to
               | learn. Go back 150 years, and very few Sami would be able
               | to move to the capital and pass as Norwegian or Swedish,
               | their accent would give them away even if they did know
               | the majority language. Go back another 50 years, and they
               | may simply not have been allowed to even _try_ to pass in
               | many places (as I recall, the first Sami priest in
               | Norway, Anders Porsanger, was rejected by his Trondheim
               | congregation. He was simply too weird for them, even
               | though he was highly educated and of course spoke
               | excellent Norwegian).
        
               | simonask wrote:
               | "Mal" literally just means language, there's nothing
               | special or particular to Swedish regional dialects about
               | it. You have the word "sprak" from German "Sprach",
               | likely via Low German.
               | 
               | The term "dialect" is very fluid, and intelligibility is
               | not a requirement. It is often a negotiated term that has
               | more to do with culture or politics.
               | 
               | In China, they even call Cantonese and Hakka "dialects",
               | which is linguistically absurd, but serves a political
               | purpose.
        
         | groundzeros2015 wrote:
         | The used that title because more people will see and remember
         | it.
        
         | tdb7893 wrote:
         | You say "we" knew but the vast majority of people don't. It's
         | not exactly common knowledge among people I know so it's
         | unsurprising a title for general audiences uses it as a hook.
        
         | libraryatnight wrote:
         | I work in the US with white dudes who literally think their
         | heritage is "Viking" and make it a big part of their identity -
         | I appreciate your point but I also understand why someone might
         | pick that title.
        
           | lo_zamoyski wrote:
           | People believe in all kinds of fanciful nonsense to try to
           | feel "special". In the US in particular, people will draw on
           | some distant real or imagined ancestry to try to establish
           | some kind of feeling of ethnic identity. Part of the reason
           | may be the feeling of vacuousness of American identity from
           | an ethnic point of view, as well as the dissolving religious
           | identity which historically functioned as a substitute for
           | ethnic identity in the US. (Various ideologies and
           | subcultures are also expressions of this.) People will not
           | only claim to belong to ethnicity X, 5+ generations after
           | their ancestors immigrated and 3+ of which didn't speak the
           | language and didn't maintain any contact with the country of
           | origin; they will also claim they're "1/16th" of some
           | ethnicity, as if "genes" or "blood" were like chemical
           | elements. Naturally, these "identities" are rooted in
           | stereotypes rather any kind of living culture.
           | 
           | It's a kind of cosplay-lite for the masses.
        
             | throw4847285 wrote:
             | I highly recommend reading Ethnic Options by Mary C.
             | Waters. It's a fascinating work of sociology that defines
             | this exact phenomenon and explains its origins.
        
             | samaltmanfried wrote:
             | I'm so glad someone brought this up. It irks me when I hear
             | Americans detail every minor fraction of their genetic
             | makeup: 1/4 Italian, 1/8 German, 1/16... etc. But they
             | don't speak any of these languages, they've never even
             | visited these countries. It's such a matter of pride for a
             | lot of Americans, but it's just a costume.
             | 
             | A quote I found here on HN, that I really liked: "Americans
             | will say they are Italian because their great grandma ate
             | spaghetti once, but God forbid someone is American because
             | he was born there" - mvieira38
             | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43930642)
        
               | troosevelt wrote:
               | Does it really bother you that people care about their
               | heritage? US culture is a culture that assimilates,
               | people remember where they come from. It's almost mean-
               | spirited that yall fault them for this. Better than
               | forgetting. I remember where my ancestors came from
               | because they came here from somewhere they were not
               | wanted.
               | 
               | What I would ask you is why does it irk you, why do you
               | care? Is it some hindance to my culture that I want to
               | learn about it and try to "cosplay"? What would you
               | prefer that we act as though we're here sui generis? Is
               | somebody's culture lesser because they're not in that
               | country at that time?
               | 
               | People of Italian ancestry in the US did not forget
               | everything about their past, in many cultures that
               | transition is even more recent; I remember my immigrant
               | grandmother. Comes off as gatekeeping people who would
               | otherwise be your relatives.
        
               | samaltmanfried wrote:
               | It irks me because it usually manifests as embracing
               | cartoonish stereotypes of the most superficial aspects of
               | the culture: "I'm 1/64th Italian, so I like pizza. I'm
               | 1/16th German, so I like beer. etc."
               | 
               | It doesn't keep me up at night, but I think it's tacky
               | and vulgar.
        
               | troosevelt wrote:
               | It might usually manfiest as that or you're picking out
               | the most superficial parts of people's identity to
               | criticize. It's just not how I and others view it when we
               | think about where the people who made us come from.
               | 
               | Or, to put it another way: your criticism is tacky and
               | vulgar. Perhaps what you're describing is "cosplaying"
               | but that's not how immigrant communities see themselves.
               | I do in fact know the perecentages of my national makeup
               | but pizza and beer aren't how I celebrate that. Nobles
               | know their ancestry down to the smallest detail, is
               | somebody really tacky for knowing that technically they
               | are 1/4th Italian? I don't think attacking somebody's
               | identity is ever fair; it costs you nothing but is
               | everything to them.
        
       | efskap wrote:
       | It's so bizarre to me when North Americans proudly claim "Viking
       | ancestry", rather than Scandinavian. Like, beyond it not being an
       | ethnicity, you're identifying specifically with violent raiders
       | who killed peaceful monks, even if that's romanticized by media.
       | It's like proudly claiming "pirate" or perhaps more poignantly in
       | current times "ICE agent ancestry".
        
         | lazide wrote:
         | Pfft, ICE agents wish they were pirates.
         | 
         | In other parts of the world, plenty of people romanticize
         | ancestry with Ghenghis Khan too.
         | 
         | Everyone loves being seen to be on the 'winning' side
         | sometimes, (and there is always a counter-culture minority!)
         | and when sufficiently remote in time, no one is going to really
         | 'feel' the atrocities. Then it's all about marketing and
         | current social whims.
         | 
         | If the Nazi's won, the current 80/20 pro/anti ratio would be
         | flipped no question.
         | 
         | You don't have to go very far back in history to see that
         | humans have some pretty dark tendencies.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | > rather than Scandinavian
         | 
         | Strange, being in North America, I've yet to meet anyone
         | identify themself as having viking blood, but we refer to
         | Scandinavians as being of viking ancestry all the time.
        
           | aaronbrethorst wrote:
           | I grew up in Minnesota and have literally never heard anyone
           | ever say this about me or any other person of Scandinavian
           | origin.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | You've never heard of your NFL football team?
        
               | Revanche1367 wrote:
               | Sport team names have nothing to do with declaring
               | ancestry.
        
               | aaronbrethorst wrote:
               | This is not the zinger you think it is, my dude.
        
               | maxlybbert wrote:
               | Tampa Bay Buccaneers? Las Vegas Raiders?
               | 
               | Do you think the LA Rams have that name to claim
               | ancestry?
        
               | esseph wrote:
               | You're absolutely correct.
               | 
               | "They are named after the Vikings of medieval
               | Scandinavia, reflecting the prominent Scandinavian
               | American culture of Minnesota."
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings
        
           | cess11 wrote:
           | It's common among usian nazis of the David Lane strain, and
           | on Facebook you can find quite a lot of "viking" groups
           | mainly populated by usian dinguses, some of whom claim some
           | scandinavian ancestor or other.
        
           | jimsimmons wrote:
           | pretty common on twitter, esp these days where there is
           | strong anglo-saxon white nationalism crowd
           | 
           | they do romanticize their ancient past as one of conquest and
           | domination over others.
           | 
           | btw, even without the viking aspect, norse law was pretty
           | strange in that it allowed murder for a fine. there is
           | definitely a savage aspect to white tradition as there is to
           | any modern culture, but there is a lot of whitewashing thats
           | done to present anglo saxons as racially superior, highly
           | civilized culture.
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | > pretty common on twitter
             | 
             | All sorts of strange things are common on twitter that are
             | completely absent in real life. It shouldn't be used for
             | any measure of reality, especially if you're judging the
             | people of a continent.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | White ethno-nationalism is not exactly irrelevant to
               | current U.S. news & politics.
        
               | liveoneggs wrote:
               | and that is thanks to amplifying fringe and/or fake junk
               | from twitter!
        
             | paleotrope wrote:
             | Restorative justice isn't that unusual in the world. Blood
             | money has roots all over the place. Paying victims or their
             | family/clan/tribe for deaths or injury is not unusual
             | especially if the perpetrator is of higher status than the
             | victim.
        
             | liveoneggs wrote:
             | ...so a common meme for bots
        
           | jayknight wrote:
           | I've heard it, but only in a tongue-in-cheek context, at
           | least the way I've always interpreted it.
        
           | kgwxd wrote:
           | Ugh, consider yourself lucky then. Can easily meet a new one
           | each week if your social circle isn't too selective. Usually
           | someones cousin that tags along. At least they can't survive
           | long without the rest of the tribe, so they don't become
           | regulars.
        
         | metalman wrote:
         | next will be combined "genitscope" readings "astrogenetics",
         | the "pro" reading will include your chart including planet 10
        
         | steveBK123 wrote:
         | I don't think I've ever heard anyone IRL say they have viking
         | ancestors.
         | 
         | Yearning for Valhalla is more a specific type of extremely
         | online poster / podcast bro / FBI director kind of behavior.
        
           | antonymoose wrote:
           | Would wearing a haircut from that dreadful viking TV show and
           | a Thor hammer necklace count? I've seen quite a meme-worthy
           | characters over the years
        
             | selimthegrim wrote:
             | There was that one Indian guy who hit the gym, bleached his
             | skin and hair and now does a pretty credible Viking
             | impression.
        
               | steveBK123 wrote:
               | Crazy what people will do for a government pension
        
             | shakna wrote:
             | Modern paganism went through a revival during the early
             | 2000s. Are you sure you're not just seeing someone's
             | religion?
             | 
             | And its not the first time, either. There's been several
             | revivals of the beliefs and culture over the years - for
             | example, we didn't even have the word 'viking' in English
             | until the 18th Century.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | The modern Techno Viking:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjCdB5p2v0Y
        
             | scottyah wrote:
             | No, that's not specifying the Viking job, just old nordic
             | culture. I don't think that anyone wearing a cross is
             | pretending to be a crusader.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | Never heard someone saying they were Vikings tbh.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | It's called the power of branding.
        
         | philwelch wrote:
         | Much like pirates and gangsters, Vikings are cool if you
         | consider them from an aesthetic as opposed to moralistic
         | perspective. Everyone has evil ancestors, but some of them were
         | cool.
        
           | scottyah wrote:
           | Ninjas, samurai, Native Americans in war paint, etc. It's
           | like every culture (that has survived) has reverence for
           | their own group.
        
           | lo_zamoyski wrote:
           | It's one thing to find a culture fascinating, but this
           | "aesthetic" is generally a construct of the imagination
           | cobbled out of stereotypes.
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | > It's so bizarre to me when North Americans proudly claim
         | "Viking ancestry", rather than Scandinavian.
         | 
         | Where did you hear it? I am sure at least one out of hundreds
         | of millions of Americans claimed it. But you know, we have
         | people who think the earth is flat, as well. But by that token
         | one can take any dumb thing someone from a large group said and
         | sort of say "why do all X say this one dumb thing"
         | 
         | At least from my experience I only heard people claim
         | Scandinavian ancestry. Or even more specifically a country like
         | Norway or Sweden for example. Places like Minnesota or
         | Wisconsin have a lot of that.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | There are five million Irish in Ireland and something like 75
         | million "Irish" in the US. And Chicago has more Polish that
         | Warsaw, but that's actual expats and their kids. Not great
         | great great grandchildren of Margaret and John who came over in
         | 1845.
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | This source puts that number at 35M of people with "some"
           | Irish descent: https://overlandirelandtours.com/blog/why-are-
           | there-more-iri... -- that means that most of them probably
           | have some other heritage too.
           | 
           | People say similar stuff about Serbians in Chicago (how it's
           | the second biggest Serbian city after Belgrade), but usually
           | all of that is overestimated significantly. Just like people
           | overestimate their local city population (most in Belgrade
           | claim it has 2M people when census on a metropolitan area
           | gets us to 1.57M).
        
             | ajxs wrote:
             | People say a very similar thing about the number of Greeks
             | in Melbourne, Australia.
        
           | lo_zamoyski wrote:
           | > There are five million Irish in Ireland and something like
           | 75 million "Irish" in the US.
           | 
           | Reminds me of this sketch. [0]
           | 
           | > And Chicago has more Polish that Warsaw, but that's actual
           | expats and their kids.
           | 
           | This is one of those persistent myths. While Chicago has many
           | Poles and people of Polish ancestry living there, it has
           | never exceeded the population of Warsaw. And New York has
           | more Poles than Chicago.
           | 
           | [0] https://youtu.be/xzlMME_sekI
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | The reason I like to use the Polish example is that I got
             | it straight from a Polish dissident, and a second one
             | didn't correct me when I repeated it to him later.
             | 
             | Nobody has official numbers on populations that are a mix
             | of documented and undocumented people. But I trust members
             | of those groups and their relatives probably have a better
             | estimate, even if it's offset by not having a degree in
             | statistics.
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | Yes, but when you call it "pillaging" it sounds much more
         | romantic.
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | You are getting struck hard by the comments, so I'll provide
         | some source about the concept of Viking in American self
         | identity.
         | 
         | > _In the United States, mainstream Americans incorporated
         | Vikings into emerging Anglo-Saxon racial identities_
         | 
         | https://escholarship.org/uc/item/3kq8c3g3
         | 
         | > _As the man skims through these figures, his eyes are
         | suddenly opened wide. According to the test results, he is
         | "0.012% Viking." With tears in his eyes, he falls on his knees
         | and yells with excitement._
         | 
         | https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14636778.2020.1...
         | 
         | Just the first papers I grabbed, there is a good chuck of
         | research literature on viking identity of Americans. There is
         | also several monographies on the subject like _Krueger, D. M.
         | (2015). Myths of the Rune Stone: Viking Martyrs and the
         | Birthplace of America_. Besides that there are organizations
         | like the American Viking:
         | 
         | > _We are loyal to our country, United States of America, bound
         | by our Viking Heritage, and fueled by modern Longships, the
         | Rune-Carvers, and the Skalds._
         | 
         | https://www.americanviking.org/about
         | 
         | I think its a bit harsh dismissing the idea of Viking ancestry
         | as a thing in USA. It might be linked to white supremacy, and
         | mainly experienced in certain circles online, but its still a
         | real phenomenon that has been going on for a long time.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | Those monks were part of a system intending to push out the
         | native beliefs of the inhabitants of the land as a soft form of
         | conquering.
        
         | keybored wrote:
         | Someone online from a region of North England was proud that he
         | was more of a viking than Scandinavians because the
         | Scandinavians that came to that place were definitely going
         | viking. Not just lazy Scandinavians that stayed home all the
         | time on their ill-geography farms.
        
           | rgblambda wrote:
           | If his ancestors remained in England following the viking
           | age, then he's 0% viking. I take it he's conflating vikings
           | with the great heathen army.
        
         | something765478 wrote:
         | > you're identifying specifically with violent raiders who
         | killed peaceful monks
         | 
         | That's not that surprising; figures like Caesar and Genghis
         | Khan are still being worshiped today. Hell, most famous
         | European monarchs are famous _because_ of their violence. It 's
         | a lot easier to forgive murder when it happened centuries ago.
        
         | kgwxd wrote:
         | Douche bag culture is highly-competitive across the world. Is
         | this one really NA specific? I'd bet it's common among ICE
         | employees, but they don't represent NA as a whole.
        
         | StevePerkins wrote:
         | 1. People yearn for identity labels. It's a core part of human
         | existance.
         | 
         | 2. "White" and "American" are problematic identity labels.
         | People therefore often reach back toward European ancestry
         | (real or supposed), for identity labels that are less
         | controversial.
         | 
         | 3. The average person isn't aware (or concerned) that "Viking"
         | isn't strictly an ethnicity. Because it's nevertheless a
         | commonly used identity label.
         | 
         | Not everything has to be an opportunity to spot Nazis hiding
         | behind every tree, or showcase your pedant chops. People wear
         | shamrock jewelry or put an Italian flag bumper sticker on their
         | car because it's fun and feels good, simple as that. Only a
         | small number of legit white supremacists, and a legion of
         | absolutely insufferable Internet progressives, think about this
         | all that deeply.
        
         | dmurray wrote:
         | It makes sense if you're Irish or British. People here who are
         | blond and blue-eyed but whose ancestors come from Ireland
         | assume they have Viking ancestry, and they're probably right
         | since the Viking era was the main time Scandinavians mixed into
         | the Irish gene pool. It doesn't have white nationalist
         | connotations: the alt-right probably identify more with Celtic
         | iconography if anything.
         | 
         | If you're American, it doesn't make as much sense, because
         | Scandinavians and Germans have been coming to America for
         | hundreds of years.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | It was both.
        
       | ghostoftiber wrote:
       | The answer is - it's both. There's also parallels in archers in
       | Europe from the longbow period:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Training You can
       | tell who was a professional archer by looking at their skeleton,
       | and so naturally families who had bodies with more readily
       | adaptable skeletons typically became archers. This married the
       | morphology of an archer to social status and family line.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | "Make the tall girl join the women's basketball/volleyball
         | team."
        
       | philwelch wrote:
       | This piece seems a little confused about what it's actually
       | reporting on.
       | 
       | It's well known, to the point of near-cliche, that the word
       | "Viking" didn't refer to a nationality or ethnicity. It meant
       | something akin to "raider". The ethnic group is usually referred
       | to as the Norse, at least until they start differentiating into
       | the modern nationalities of Danish, Swedish, Norwegian,
       | Icelandic, and Faroese.
       | 
       | The actual finding here seems to be the discovery of the remains
       | of some Viking raiders who weren't ethnically Norse. Fair enough.
       | There are also examples of Norse populations assimilating into
       | other cultures, such as the Normans and Rus. Likewise, the
       | traditionally Norse Varangian Guard accepted many Anglo-Saxon
       | warriors whose lords didn't survive the Norman conquest. So it's
       | not too surprising that someone of non-Nordic descent might be
       | accepted into a Viking warband.
        
       | kleton wrote:
       | It's safe to say that 100% of the Northmen who invaded England in
       | 1066 shared that same "job description", however.
        
         | philwelch wrote:
         | By 1066, not quite. That was an invading army led by the King
         | of Norway to press his claim on the throne of England. I'm sure
         | many of the soldiers in that army had been Vikings but at that
         | time they were soldiers of a Christian king, which would have
         | been considered much more legitimate than being a heathen
         | raider.
         | 
         | I guess the Normans were also of Nordic descent but they had
         | given up the Viking way of life a century before.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | 99%.
         | 
         | Poor Sven just liked maps but they kept making him come along
         | on their "excursions".
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | What's gonna bake your noodle is, Viking raids were the VC-
         | funded startups of medieval northern Europe. Norse kings were
         | very generous with their kingdom's treasure, to the raiders
         | with the most fearsome reputations.
        
       | acadapter wrote:
       | It is linguistically possible that "viking" was simply a self-
       | referential ethnonym, with the first part meaning "home" or
       | "village".
       | 
       | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...
       | 
       | Compare Ancient Greek [w]oikos, and all the various ves, vas,
       | wies, which can be found all over Eastern Europe.
        
         | theMMaI wrote:
         | The first part of the word viking, or vik simply means "bay" in
         | nordic languages
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | The even firster part "vi" means "we" though.
        
             | b3nt-fiber wrote:
             | webay hmm. they started a trend
        
             | runarberg wrote:
             | I don't think -kingur is a suffix in old norse. It is not a
             | suffix in modern Icelandic, and I can't think of any suffix
             | like that.
             | 
             | In fact I don't remember a suffix which attaches to a
             | pronoun. In modern Icelandic at least we like to introduce
             | more pronouns or conjugate them rather then to suffix or
             | prefix them.
             | 
             | If the word was broken as vi-kingur, I think the modern
             | Icelandic would be vid-kingur (or vid-lingur), which is
             | simply not a word in the language.
        
             | DrewADesign wrote:
             | And vi was an outgrowth of ex, which was an improved
             | version of ed, which in my experience, roughly translates
             | to 'ugh'.
        
               | BobBagwill wrote:
               | Argghhh! When all ye got is a 300 Baud connection and a
               | ASR-33, then ye be thanking your lucky stars for ed! And
               | pray that the ribbon ain't worn out, and that the paper
               | tape don't jam!
               | 
               | A pox o' chads on your house, ya mewlin' landlubber!
        
           | acadapter wrote:
           | Yes, but similarity alone is not a guarantee that words are
           | related. The words val and [h]val are not related in Swedish,
           | even though they ended up with the same pronunciation and
           | spelling in the modern language. Sometimes, words can end up
           | as "fossil words" because the main usage of the word was
           | lost.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_word
           | 
           | This can also happen to word roots. Because this is about a
           | historical word, it's interesting to look at the broader
           | Indo-European language tree for clues about the original
           | meaning.
        
         | runarberg wrote:
         | I don't speak old norse but I speak Icelandic natively.
         | Vikingur simply means Bay-er, that is somebody from a bay. As
         | an Icelander living in America I experience the English word
         | "viking" as an Exonym for my identity. In Iceland we use
         | "Nordic" or "Scandinavian", both terms are inclusive of Finns,
         | Sami, and Greenlanders, so strictly speaking this is not an
         | Enthnonym.
         | 
         | In Icelandic, at least to my knowledge, we have never used
         | _Vikingur_ as an ethnonym (well maybe during a sports game, or
         | among right-wing nationalists). It has always meant raiders. In
         | 2007 there was even a new word dubbed _Utrasarvikingar_ meaning
         | businessmen who made a bunch of money doing business abroad (
         | _buykings_ would a clever translation of the term).
         | 
         | EDIT: I just remembered that the -ingur suffix can also be used
         | to indicate a temporary state e.g. _ruglingur_ (confusion) and
         | _trodningur_ (trampling [n.]), and was used as such e.g. _ad
         | fara i viking_ (to embark to a viking) so _vikingur_ could also
         | mean, a person that embarks to a bay.
        
       | jibal wrote:
       | Never trust the headline. From the article:
       | 
       | > And comparing DNA and archaeology at individual sites suggests
       | that _for some_ in the Viking bands,  "Viking" was a job
       | description, not a matter of heredity.
        
         | bazoom42 wrote:
         | The article is just really confused in its terminology. But
         | historically, vikingr meant raider or pirate. It was only
         | hereditary in the sense it might be a family tradition to go
         | viking. But if you dont go raiding you are not a vikingr
         | whatever your ancestry.
        
       | bazoom42 wrote:
       | The title is rather confused, because DNA cannot show how people
       | understood a certain word. Historical sources like the sagas show
       | how the word was understood.
        
       | danilocesar wrote:
       | And they didn't use emacs, because they were Vi-Kings
        
         | boutell wrote:
         | Later the vimkings pushed them out. Then they were suppressed
         | by the vs-igoths, but modern day enthusiasts still call
         | themselves neo-vimkings
        
         | HerbManic wrote:
         | I have come out of lurking here. But that pun was so good/awful
         | I just sent it to Richard Stallman for his collection of puns.
        
       | enjoykaz wrote:
       | The no-mixing part is what got me. If "viking" was just a job
       | open to anyone, you'd expect genetic mixing in the burial sites.
       | But Swedish groups went east, Danes south, Norwegians west --
       | distinct genetic clusters throughout.
       | 
       | So it was a job, but one you apparently got by being born in the
       | right place
        
         | bazoom42 wrote:
         | Don't take "job" literally. It wasn't centralized in any way.
         | It just meant if you had the resources you could build a ship,
         | hire some henchmen, and go raiding. It is not surprising Swedes
         | went East, Nowegians Northwest etc - just look at a map.
        
       | Bender wrote:
       | From old Norse a viking is a pirate or raider _often including
       | rape_. Hobby or profession to get the booty and spread ones DNA.
       | It 's still very much a thing but primarily out of Africa and
       | parts of the middle east including places they emigrate to.
       | Scandinavians had evolved away from that behavior long ago.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | So Africans have the raping gene but Scandinavians do not?
        
           | Bender wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
       | nillkiggers1488 wrote:
       | No Netflix, the Vikings were not black.
        
         | bazoom42 wrote:
         | If you are referring to the "Vikings"-show, you should be aware
         | it is fiction and the roles sadly are played by professional
         | actors, both genuine vikings.
        
       | VikingCoder wrote:
       | Well said.
        
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