[HN Gopher] Facebook is cooked
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Facebook is cooked
        
       Author : npilk
       Score  : 1427 points
       Date   : 2026-02-20 18:25 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pilk.website)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pilk.website)
        
       | HoldOnAMinute wrote:
       | I'm a parent in my 50's. "Peak Facebook" is years in the past for
       | me. But it was great for a while. My spouse, friends, friends'
       | spouses, and I were all sharing stories and pictures of our kids,
       | travels, and experiences, such as dining experiences or hikes.
       | There was so much joyous sharing. And it wasn't done for clicks,
       | views, or monetization. It was just friends, sharing their
       | experiences, encouraging each other, etc. It all just went away,
       | starting with the husbands.
        
         | da02 wrote:
         | What do your social groups use nowadays?
        
           | wincy wrote:
           | Similar experience for me and it's just been replaced with...
           | nothing. My gaming buddies talk on Discord but I just don't
           | really hear from my aunts and uncles and cousins anymore.
           | It'd be a hassle to even figure out how to contact them. Only
           | 13 people showed up to my high school reunion last year from
           | a graduating class of ~400.
        
             | zadikian wrote:
             | Same. Idk how college communication work now; we had class
             | groups and planned everything over FB events/pages back
             | then.
             | 
             | For friends, I started a few text group chats to stay in
             | touch. It's really annoying because someone has Android and
             | RCS is broken on someone's end. Some also use FB Messenger,
             | but nobody 2 years younger or older than me is on that.
        
               | Mixtape wrote:
               | When I finished my undergrad a few years ago, we were
               | relying heavily on GroupMe chats, with the occasional
               | Slack and one or two LinkedIn groups mixed in. Discord
               | was just starting to exit the gaming sphere and hit the
               | mainstream though. I'm willing to bet it's absolutely
               | dominating the space now.
        
               | zadikian wrote:
               | How long ago was that if you don't mind me asking? I was
               | in college 2014-2016, and GroupMe existed but was on its
               | way out. I asked our college interns around 2022 what
               | people use for class groups, and I think they weren't
               | sure what I even meant, but the answer wasn't Discord.
        
               | Mixtape wrote:
               | 2019-23.
               | 
               | It's worth noting that GroupMe sticking around was
               | honestly probably a byproduct of my own circles and the
               | specific campus culture to a certain extent.
        
               | ishouldstayaway wrote:
               | > I started a few text group chats to stay in touch.
               | 
               | This is the space that WhatsApp fills, for better or
               | worse.
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | "...I just don't really hear from my aunts and uncles and
             | cousins anymore..."
             | 
             | Yeah, actually why I left Facebook a decade ago: finding
             | out what horrible people my relatives were.
        
               | le-mark wrote:
               | This applies to "friends" also. And discovering how many
               | of them are actual idiots. Oh, these people can't put 5
               | words together to form a coherent sentence and their
               | spelling grammar suck to top it off? I don't miss it at
               | all.
        
             | jrmg wrote:
             | It's _returned_ to nothing. Losing touch with people you
             | didn't contact regularly was the norm until the mid 2000s.
             | 
             | For someone who grew up in the 'golden years' of social
             | media, it's kinda weird to see.
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | The thing is, before social media, we did have a culture
               | of periodically reaching out and _calling_ people. Those
               | muscles completely atrophied though, so when we fall off
               | social media, the result is even less connection than we
               | had before Facebook et al existed.
        
               | underlipton wrote:
               | It just keeps tumblring down, tumblring down, tumblring
               | down. I just keep logging me out, logging me out, logging
               | me out.
               | 
               | I joke, but the internet I knew as a youth going the way
               | of the dinosaurs really has had a deep impact on me. End
               | of an epoch.
        
               | swat535 wrote:
               | Exactly.. you'd only really see them on Christmas or
               | Easter.. Maybe some special event like Wedding.
               | 
               | Once in a while they would come over but that was it. You
               | never knew what your uncle had for lunch.
        
           | throwway120385 wrote:
           | Can't speak for OP but my spouse has set up a private GroupMe
           | for posting events for a group, but otherwise everyone shares
           | pictures using text messages. We don't post any pictures of
           | our kid where strangers can easily get access to them and
           | we've read the privacy policy of every service we've ever
           | used.
           | 
           | I was considering self-hosting something for a while but she
           | found it more sensible to do it this way.
           | 
           | Every once in a while she logs into Facebook to post
           | something on Marketplace and immediately gets completely
           | sidetracked by their algorithm and design. Then she gets
           | frustrated and we just put the thing she wanted to sell on
           | the corner instead.
        
           | hu3 wrote:
           | Folks around me use mostly Instagram which ironically is also
           | from Meta.
           | 
           | Zuck is always one step ahead.
        
             | gus_massa wrote:
             | And as a sibling comment says, also WhatsApp. The guy is
             | always two steps ahead.
        
               | nephihaha wrote:
               | I'm waiting for Whatsapp to go down the toilet too. I
               | notice it is already advising me to beware of
               | misinformation on forwarded posts and only to use
               | official and trusted sources (the government and their
               | mates basically).
        
               | pdpi wrote:
               | There's two separate things at play here.
               | 
               | One is "I don't want to use Meta products as a matter of
               | principle", and WhatsApp's a no-go if that's your
               | posture.
               | 
               | The other is "I don't want to drown in horrible,
               | algorithm-curated junk content". Instagram is just as bad
               | as Facebook there, but WhatsApp is definitely not the
               | same.
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | 100%. Whatsapp is still zuck, but it doesn't have a
               | "feed" and that's the most important thing about it for
               | me.
        
               | gus_massa wrote:
               | Now at the bottom it has a few tabs: Chats, Updates, ...
               | 
               | Updates are broadcasted, but they disappear after 24
               | hours.
               | 
               | Step 1) Keep updates for a week, later forever
               | 
               | Step 2) Mix Chats and Updates
               | 
               | Step 3) Add a few relevant patrocinated posts
               | 
               | Step 4) Change the css from green to blue
               | 
               | Step 5) Profit
        
               | nickburns wrote:
               | Seria 'sponsored posts.' Como angloparlante nativo, tenia
               | que comprobar que fuese una palabra de verdad
               | 'patrocinate' (como 'patrocinado').
        
               | gus_massa wrote:
               | Yes, my bad. Hi from Argentina!
        
               | nickburns wrote:
               | !Mucho gusto!, desde los EE.UU.
        
             | ghywertelling wrote:
             | You only ever need a Meta account. The next content format
             | will be brought to your door by Zuck even before you know
             | you need it.
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | I have an IG account that I barely use, whereas my Facebook
             | account I do (regrettably) still spend time on, and have
             | put in the effort to silence/hide the worst of the baity
             | type content that it wants to throw at me.
             | 
             | But interestingly my experience of IG when I do
             | occasionally go on it is similar to what TFA describes:
             | lots of engagement-bait / thirst trap content that I never
             | asked to see but also haven't been around to hide, so I
             | guess the baseline algorithm is just matching me to what
             | others in my demographic bracket have found, um, engaging.
        
           | bojanz wrote:
           | In my part of Europe it's all in private WhatsApp groups (one
           | for inner family, one for friends, etc)
        
             | drnick1 wrote:
             | Unfortunately, those are also being surveilled by Meta, so
             | the exodus from Facebook did not help. Consider Signal or a
             | private XMPP server.
        
               | underlipton wrote:
               | I convinced my family to try Signal, and after a month of
               | not being able to connect despite knowing each other's
               | numbers - silent errors - I had to apologize and join
               | them on WhatsApp.
               | 
               | They all use iMessage primarily, but that's a whole other
               | can-of-worms conversation. (Screw Apple.)
        
               | rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
               | Got my entire family on Signals (sisters, brothers, in-
               | laws, parents, nephews...). We're very happy but could
               | extend that to second degrees(?), to cousins and uncles.
               | We're were close to succeed but we needed help (media,
               | mostly).
        
           | snovymgodym wrote:
           | Group chats on various apps
        
           | yabones wrote:
           | I'm probably a bit younger than the gp, but I can confidently
           | say that all socializing has moved almost entirely off
           | "social media" and onto group chats. Most people have a dozen
           | or more combinations of friends and families on multiple
           | apps, all trying to replace what was once easy.
           | 
           | I'd love if somebody would make a site based on the ~2010
           | expectations (not reality) of facebook. Ban any commercial
           | activity and make people pay for it. I just want to talk to
           | my friends and say "happy birthday" to somebody I haven't
           | seen in years, not look at ads and slop posts.
        
             | cvwright wrote:
             | Several people have tried over the years. We all failed,
             | because it doesn't work.
             | 
             | The economics don't work because no one is willing to pay.
             | 
             | The network effect doesn't exist, because real people don't
             | post enough to get the flywheel started.
             | 
             | All the dark patterns exist because that is what users
             | reward.
             | 
             | Sucks but it's true.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | iMessages (which supports groups well with RCS), Signal,
           | Telegram, GroupMe. Slack, IRC, and Zulip for online groups.
           | 
           | (early 40s)
        
           | etrautmann wrote:
           | Almost all chat threads in messages, signal, or occasionally
           | in slack or discord or something else.
        
           | mattfrommars wrote:
           | Personally, it's all through WhatsApp
        
           | sbrother wrote:
           | Similar experience for me and at this point it's just a
           | collection of private chats. Different groups use different
           | platforms (mine are on iMessage, Whatsapp, Signal, Slack,
           | and.. actually Messenger although apparently Facebook is
           | taking that away soon). It kind of feels like real-name
           | social media is a failed experiment at this point.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Text messages, email. Same as ever.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | Close friends and family: group chats (whatsapp, signal)
           | 
           | Distant friends and extended family: email threads
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | I am in my mid forties and most people around me seem to use
           | instagram to share memes and stuff + keep contact with rarely
           | seen friends and whatsapp groups for closest more tightknit
           | circles.
           | 
           | I am still on whatsapp but I am planning on nuking my account
           | in september after a large event involving people from
           | various continents. I have no idea if I will be able to stay
           | directly in touch with those people after that, probably not.
           | 
           | I am still unsure if I'll send a message to most of my
           | contacts or if I'll just tell my nuclear family, in laws and
           | closest friends.
        
           | JeremyNT wrote:
           | Not parent, but, depressingly:                 1. Signal
           | 2. BlueSky       3. Discord       4. WhatsApp       5. SMS
           | 
           | This list is presented in order of preference, and in reverse
           | order of prevalence.
        
           | HoldOnAMinute wrote:
           | Nothing, the sharing has stopped.
        
           | insane_dreamer wrote:
           | IG, though I didn't bring my FB list over and lost contact
           | with a bunch of people.
           | 
           | I keep my follow list small and regularly unfollow people
           | (not because I don't like them or what they post, but because
           | I've seen enough of that).
           | 
           | Being able to unfollow without drama was something that was
           | problematic in FB.
           | 
           | My siblings and parents have a private WhatsApp group -
           | that's what's used for actual communication.
        
         | sparky_z wrote:
         | > It all just went away, starting with the husbands.
         | 
         | I honestly can't tell whether I'm supposed to interpret this as
         | "The dads lost interest in Facebook before anyone else", or
         | "Everybody got divorced."
        
           | RobinL wrote:
           | Or possibly 'men find the algorithmic/consumption based
           | platforms relatively more appealing' and so were quicker to
           | leave
        
           | bentcorner wrote:
           | Personally I stopped using Facebook because even in the
           | before-AI days it started becoming a glamour photo book of
           | everyone you ever knew (and probably lots of people you only
           | kind of sorta know), and while people certainly deserve to do
           | and see great things, seeing it all shoved in your face every
           | day becomes exhausting in a keeping-up-with-the-joneses kind
           | of way.
           | 
           | I totally get that not everybody is like that, but I am, and
           | so I stopped going to Facebook.
           | 
           | These days I'm in private Whatsapp groups for my direct
           | family and so I learn about what they do, and not the random
           | stuff that my neighbors and 20-years-past classmates did.
           | 
           | My wife is still active on Facebook and I actually do still
           | visit occasionally to boost her posts but that's about it.
        
             | dividefuel wrote:
             | I agree with this a lot. In the late 2000s, which for me
             | was when I was about 20, posts were very throwaway and low
             | effort -- in a good way! You never really knew what you'd
             | see when you logged in. Photos of stupid things or silly
             | status updates, etc.
             | 
             | Over the next five years though, content gradually shifted
             | to mainly image crafting. Over-processed photos, highlight
             | reel curated trip photos, major life updates, etc. It felt
             | like the bar was higher on what people would share, but
             | unfortunately that removed a lot of the things that made FB
             | fun in the first place.
             | 
             | I don't know whether it was a more universal shift or
             | whether it had more to do with the age of my peers.
        
           | 98codes wrote:
           | I'm a dad that stopped using facebook when I got divorced, so
           | there's a bit of anecdata for you
        
           | HoldOnAMinute wrote:
           | I would say their priorities changed. They spent less time
           | with social media and just did other things.
        
             | nickburns wrote:
             | Alright, I'll be the dude to call a spade a spade: it was
             | _all_ done for  "clicks."
             | 
             | The sheer banality of that tends to eventually wear on a
             | dude.
        
         | drnick1 wrote:
         | > There was so much joyous sharing. And it wasn't done for
         | clicks, views, or monetization.
         | 
         | All along, Meta was vacuuming that data to build profiles of
         | you, your family and friends, to be sold to third parties. You
         | have been duped.
        
         | Hnrobert42 wrote:
         | What do you mean it all just went away starting with the
         | husbands? Like people drifted away from the platform? Husbands
         | started drifting away from it first?
        
         | 12_throw_away wrote:
         | > There was so much joyous sharing.
         | 
         | I'm sorry, but describing using a social advertising network as
         | "joyous sharing" is blowing my mind. This is, like, what
         | marketing people think normal people talk like.
        
           | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
           | bro, facebook was the first internet thing for a lot of
           | people. with it, millions of *oomers got in touch with people
           | they didn't see in years/decades. it was unironically good
           | before the enshittification, and we still don't have a
           | mainstream replacement. we probably can't ever have one,
           | really.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | Similar experience; it was good 15 years ago. I left* and
         | closed my account ~10 years ago.
         | 
         | * because 1) I found it sucked up time I needed for more
         | productive things and I was getting "hooked" on social media,
         | and 2) it wasn't good for my mental health -- if all you see is
         | the glamour side, even if they're people you know, it was easy
         | for me to feel that my life sucked in comparison. It didn't
         | make me happy.
        
         | itomato wrote:
         | Naive, good natured, exploitable. Perfection.
        
       | mgiampapa wrote:
       | Social media is mostly about what you make of it and how you
       | interact to find value. This is the same in Twitter, TikTok, FB,
       | Instagram, even LinkedIn.
       | 
       | If you don't interact with the product, you get lowest
       | denominator crap.
        
         | AceJohnny2 wrote:
         | This is not true for the major social media sites that control
         | the algorithmic feeds. (Facebook, Xitter, Reddit, YouTube...)
         | 
         | While you may be able to add a small bend to the feed, it's
         | really 90% in their power, not yours.
         | 
         | I'm looking at Facebook "Home" feed. Funny how they added a
         | separate "Friends" feed, the original purpose of the site,
         | that's not the default.
        
           | mgiampapa wrote:
           | IDK, I still find my Facebook and Instagram feeds very
           | topical and useful to me, so I keep using them. I also curate
           | aggressively, have a wide variety of interests and a few
           | hundred close connections. It could be that I am just fitting
           | into what the algo is steering to, but I don't get the low
           | quality stuff that OP is complaining about.
        
           | Dr_Birdbrain wrote:
           | For Reddit, you can select an option so that it only shows
           | you things from subs you follow. Dramatically improves the
           | experience!
        
             | AceJohnny2 wrote:
             | sure, but now it's giving me days old crappy posts with 3
             | votes from those subs as it leans wholeheartedly in the
             | Dark Pattern of always feeding me _something_ so I keep
             | reflexively coming back for more.
        
         | zadikian wrote:
         | Was curious what my abandoned FB shows if I log in now. Mostly
         | posts from groups I joined ages ago that are surprisingly still
         | active, some random local news articles, and ads for
         | restaurants.
        
           | HoldOnAMinute wrote:
           | I used to run the Facebook page for a church-affiliated
           | children's summer program associated with a minority group.
           | 
           | I accidentally switched to that account the other day.
           | 
           | The feed was the most right-wing, Fox News crap you could
           | imagine!
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | I have a very sweet elderly friend of the family who only
             | uses Facebook for church-related stuff, and since I'm "the
             | tech guy" she asked me to look at her facebook and help her
             | understand why she sees so much Trump, right-wing, hateful,
             | violent, "Nazi-adjacent" (interestingly never -overtly-
             | Nazi) stuff in her feed. I didn't have the heart to try to
             | explain to her demographic bias, revealed preferences, and
             | overlapping group interests, so I just said it's probably a
             | software glitch in Facebook.
        
             | mgiampapa wrote:
             | I am both strongly pro 2A, and extremely liberal. Sometimes
             | it gets things wrong, but I just use the feedback buttons
             | and snooze content I don't agree with and it remarkably
             | stays mostly on track for me.
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | Unfortunately there's still two things bringing me back to
       | Facebook: Marketplace and the neighbourhood group (populated by
       | mostly boomers)
        
       | nubg wrote:
       | Great post, it's not just you, my feed is exactly the same. Short
       | FCBK stocks.
        
       | BoredPositron wrote:
       | I would really like to see the daus for Facebook that primarily
       | interact with their feed. Not marketplace or messenger just the
       | core of the platform.
        
       | j16sdiz wrote:
       | It's not just facebook. Every social network under Meta is
       | infected with bot. Facebook look worse because there are so few
       | real users.
        
         | calvinmorrison wrote:
         | Twitter was for, almost ever, infected with basically spam and
         | 'fake user counts'. These fake user counts were of course
         | included in the numbers told to investors and it drove sales
         | price of stock. Did you think facebook would ever be immune to
         | that?
        
       | sunir wrote:
       | We lost the Internet to AI. Just accept it. It's bots talking to
       | bots about bots.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | You just need to find a smaller walled garden that can be
         | tended, and not care deeply about having a massive audience and
         | you can still find interesting conversation.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | The gardens that need the most tending, and that will have
           | the most impactful rewards for individuals and communities as
           | a result of said tending, exist in meatspace. Stop searching
           | for walled gardens on the internet and focus on whatever is
           | around you wherever you are. Stop using "More social media
           | but different this time!" as the solution to broken social
           | media.
        
           | ASalazarMX wrote:
           | I've seen many Lemmy communities die because their creators
           | abandoned then when they didn't grow fast into thousands of
           | members. This fast growth fixation is so pernicious, if
           | anything web forums and Reddit showed us, is that small
           | communities are higher quality than big ones. Communities in
           | the thousands require a lot of moderation effort to remain
           | high quality.
           | 
           | Enjoy your small circle of internet strangers sharing a
           | common interest, you don't need to become viral.
        
         | weregiraffe wrote:
         | Facebook is not the Internet.
        
           | ASalazarMX wrote:
           | But AI slop is not limited to Facebook. It really is all over
           | the Internet, it dominates entire topics in search engines.
        
         | cat5e wrote:
         | I will never roll over for the lizard man
        
           | chistev wrote:
           | Don't you use WhatsApp?
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | maybe the centralized, corporate-owned web, but not the
         | internet... at least, not yet...
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | If anything the open internet seems _worse_. Every google
           | search for some anodyne home maintenance task returns
           | hundreds of AI-generated slop  "guides" with affiliate links.
           | YouTube is the last refuge for real information on this kind
           | of thing. Coming across a human-written guide on the open web
           | is increasingly rare.
        
       | smrtinsert wrote:
       | My feed isn't as bad as this one, mostly current events, tech,
       | music, politics which are my interests. Trolls/ai/bots are
       | everywhere, but so are people callling it out, so if anything I
       | would guess engagement is up. To be fair, my politics seems to be
       | around 60/40 agree/disagree with my political preference which I
       | actually think is a massive improvement over what it used to be
       | which was 90% agreeable to me. I enjoy engaging on pages of the
       | opposing view.
        
       | alex1138 wrote:
       | Zuckerberg is what I might refer to as "forced" network effects.
       | And I don't mean the natural network effects that result from
       | people using a good and hence popular product (or network effects
       | building on itself). Facebook replaced people's emails in their
       | profiles with fb.com addresses, the company lied to people about
       | privacy forever but especially with the former it's the site that
       | actively tries to take you over. I despise Google, but Gmail
       | wasn't like this (and supposedly Facebook would actively delete
       | posts linking to its competition, in the early days - and maybe
       | not so early days)
       | 
       | My point in this somewhat rambly post is it's always been a
       | spammy mess and Zuck's never had an interest in making a good
       | product. For him it's literally about domination
       | 
       | And PS: yeah, I know. With Chrome Google is apparently trying to
       | dictate standards in a similarly cynical way
        
         | downboots wrote:
         | Maybe. But you can't deny their strategy worked. Seizing most
         | with FB, IG, WA for the average people
        
       | wincy wrote:
       | Facebook messenger is so annoying to use too! My extended family
       | group chat is there, but I had to turn off notifications because
       | Facebook realized I only engage there and started serving me
       | stories and updates from the messenger app as notifications!
       | Right this second opening messenger it shows a "4" in the upper
       | right, assumably with garbage notifications about things I don't
       | care about "happening" on Facebook. Luckily if something
       | important actually happens my family knows to text me, so I read
       | the group chatter at my leisure rather than being interrupted
       | randomly.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | Anything like that faces a "cold start" problem when they don't
       | have data about you.
       | 
       | I got a lot of that kind of stuff when I started a new Facebook
       | account but once I got my friends and family on and joined some
       | sports photography groups I am usually greeted by (1) photos of
       | varying quality that people took of a high school basketball
       | game, (2) something family members are doing, (3) some friends
       | outraged about the Trump administration... With helpings of AI
       | slop cat videos and other trash.
       | 
       | Meta obviously believes that those kind of images of women will
       | get engagement and I know I get DMs that appear to be from women
       | like that every time I get on a new platform -- usually I don't
       | respond, or lead them out until they reveal what they are, though
       | I am tempted to say "I am only interested in 2.5-d girls"
       | 
       | Instagram has those blonde women too, but I was impressed with
       | the "cold start" experience on Instagram where my feed was filled
       | with some really incredible videos that must have been hand
       | selected. After a few days of engagement farming though I wound
       | up connected to a lot of South Asians including rather modest
       | Muslim and Hindu women who project a fashionable image without
       | showing a lot of skin. I didn't have a lot of success connecting
       | with people in my immediate area until I started going out as-a-
       | fox and handing out tokens with QR codes.
        
       | operatingthetan wrote:
       | What I don't understand is how FB and Insta are just full of spam
       | (from spammers, not Meta AI) now. It used to be that FB was the
       | absolute best at getting rid of spam and now they appear to be
       | overcome by it?
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | Because if you report something they do nothing about it. I
         | have seen complete scams on there and they do nothing about it.
         | At the same time the site wants to control your worldview so
         | lose lose on both scores.
        
       | ossa-ma wrote:
       | Evidently there is such little real human content and engagement
       | on these platforms yet how does the big number keep going up?
       | Genuine question.
       | 
       | Do we need a way to audit usage stats in addition to financial
       | numbers?
        
         | michelb wrote:
         | Engagement is great if you target a specific group. Don't need
         | human content. It's ridiculously easy to start a Facebook page
         | in a niche targeting a specific demographic, connect a site to
         | it, unleash AI generated content, post it on FB and run ads.
         | With enough traction, Facebook will pay you for making more
         | content, while you extract money from your page followers.
         | You're separating easy-to-influence boomers and conspiracy
         | theorists from their money. It's disgusting, but it is
         | ridiculously easy to make heaps of money with whatever content
         | on Facebook.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | My guess is every metric is just getting diluted by bot
         | activity but there's enough real users buying crap to give
         | their advertising positive returns.
        
       | euleriancon wrote:
       | I had a similar experience recently, where I logged in to
       | Facebook after not using it for years and was shocked by how much
       | garbage was there. My spouse does use Facebook somewhat regularly
       | so I looked at her feed and it was much more reasonable.
       | 
       | I wonder if for those of us that haven't used Facebook in years
       | the recommendation algorithm is essentially default. Which much
       | like the default youtube algorithm, is completely garbage. But if
       | we did use it (which I have no intention of doing), it would
       | start being more reasonable.
        
         | npilk wrote:
         | Yeah, this makes sense. It does sort of imply that new users
         | would just see a bunch of garbage, which you'd think isn't
         | ideal. On the other hand, how many new users could possibly
         | still be signing up for Facebook? So maybe it's not a problem
         | as they just manage the decline.
        
           | bmurphy1976 wrote:
           | It's nonsensical rage/click baiting garbage. You are the
           | product, not the user.
           | 
           | Anybody who hasn't used FB in a long time almost certainly
           | has 100s if not 1000s of posts from friends and family that
           | they missed. Instead of this garbage it should be "Hey, we
           | haven't seen you in awhile! Here's all the fun and important
           | stuff you missed out on."
           | 
           | That might actually get me to engage with the platform
           | because that would be putting my needs first and foremost.
           | But that's not what FB does and not what FB ever did. Zuck
           | never had our best interests in mind, so why would it put our
           | interests first?
        
         | speckx wrote:
         | Same here, I use it once every year or so. I get AI slop when I
         | log in that is mostly like this blog post.
         | 
         | My wife, who uses it maybe once or twice a month, does not AI
         | slop, she showed me her feed. Nor does my friend who uses it
         | daily. It's definitely based on usage or lack of usage.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | YT is like this too, if you're not logged in, thirst trap,
         | crazy stuff until you build up a search history (even not
         | logged in)
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | Now and then it gets things right, but I find a lot of YT
           | recs to be pretty dubious, and find it is trying to bias me
           | in this direction or that direction. It's pretty pathetic.
           | 
           | The search function is also useless. About the only Scottish
           | history content I ever get rec'd is Scotland History Tours.
           | While I like his channel, it is not the only show in town and
           | it doesn't go very deep.
           | 
           | When I got my last YT account I could see it was trying to
           | access which news I should see. It was trying to link me to
           | one American party or the other. I just clicked "not
           | interested" into most of the partisan bait content. Not my
           | circus, not my clowns.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | Interesting. I have a very different experience with
             | YouTube, to the point I consider it my favorite social
             | network thingy. My search history and subscriptions are
             | carefully curated, and I mostly get "more of the same",
             | with pretty good recommendations for stuff that usually
             | interests me. Also, zero "thirsty" stuff.
             | 
             | Logged out, YouTube is of course a complete mess.
        
               | nephihaha wrote:
               | Logged out, YouTube suggests me endless videos about MMA
               | fighting or trash for children. I only use the YouTube
               | app for commenting. I use Brave to avoid constant
               | adverts.
               | 
               | I do notice though that YouTube is always trying to bias
               | me in one direction or another. I have a friend whose
               | feed is full of Trumpbait and stuff about how Putin is
               | about to die and the Ukraine war is about to end. (Sounds
               | fine except these videos have been saying that for four
               | or five years.) Whatever one things about these things,
               | the videos he gets are very propagandistic and have
               | ridiculous AI thumbnails and titles. Usually of Putin or
               | Trump scowling at something. He also gets suggested a lot
               | of food videos (okay, I suppose) and often ones about
               | Nazis and WW2 (a bit fetishistic, but to be fair he did
               | history at university).
               | 
               | My non-political YouTube suggestions tend to be about
               | popular music from decades ago. I emphasise "about". I
               | notice the algo more rarely suggests actual music itself.
               | I suspect this is because YT has to pay out money for
               | music but not videos about it. I get some local history
               | stuff (which is interesting but usually not about areas I
               | know well). I very rarely get suggested much in the way
               | of Scottish, Irish or Welsh content, in spite of viewing
               | a lot of it. Never anything about what's happening with
               | Scottish politics (always from a London perspective) or
               | the parliament here.
        
           | MattGrommes wrote:
           | Not sure why people are downvoting this, it's absolutely
           | true. I watch a lot of youtube on my TV and I can tell in
           | milliseconds if it's logged me out and I'm seeing the default
           | feed. It's fully insane and inane.
        
             | recursivecaveat wrote:
             | It only takes me a few seconds of scrolling in a private
             | window to hit an AI-generated cat head on pregnant human
             | woman barfing rainbows on the floor: 63M views. Really
             | makes you believe in the dead internet theory, just that
             | they're all in their own little slop algorithm world. Or
             | maybe it's ipad babies after all.
        
               | wildrhythms wrote:
               | Everywhere I go I see parents letting their kids scroll
               | short form video. The brain rot starts early.
        
           | KellyCriterion wrote:
           | True: You have to curate your feed / search history a little
           | bit to get much better results
        
             | loloquwowndueo wrote:
             | Or, just search for the thing you're looking for directly,
             | and otherwise don't rely on the feed to feed you because it
             | only knows to feed you crap?
        
         | tencentshill wrote:
         | I would assume inactive accounts get "sold" to the algorithm's
         | lowest bidders. If you're not generating new information,
         | there's nothing to scrape or sell. You must be pretty locked
         | down outside of Facebook as well (you've actually toggled
         | privacy settings, ever).
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Try https://www.fbpurity.com/ I'm using it for Facebook
         | interface needs until I can get something more agentic in my
         | browser operational.
         | 
         | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...
        
           | rhyperior wrote:
           | The only way you can use FB imo.
        
             | Smalltalker-80 wrote:
             | Agreed. I'm over 50, so I'm 'allowed' to use FB ;-), for
             | those few posts of the last remaining family and friends
             | there. Using FBP, I _only_ see new posts of _friends_ in
             | _chronological_ order. But FB still f*cks you, because it
             | does not show all updates of everyone. When the algo
             | decides you 've had enough, you simply reach the 'end' of
             | your feed. Well when FB, sessions keep getting shorter and
             | shorter... There are some EU laws in the making that might
             | change things, though.
        
           | ForHackernews wrote:
           | https://socialfixer.com/ is another
        
         | Maxion wrote:
         | I logged in to instagram after like 5 years and my whole feed
         | is literally just thots and AI generated content, even though I
         | follow a crapload of accounts.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | Not just thots but thots with inevitable links to their
           | OnlyFans pages. It seems that FB and Instagram's primary
           | purpose has become funneling people into OnlyFans. I wonder
           | if Zucc has caught on to this and is at least getting some
           | revenue share from OF.
        
             | JohnMakin wrote:
             | He has testified to congress that IG/meta does not promote
             | sexual content, which is nuts, because anyone who's spent 5
             | mins on the platform knows this absolutely not the case
        
               | naravara wrote:
               | In my experience it's mostly sexual adjacent content with
               | just enough plausible deniability that you could say it's
               | a comedic sketch or something. They're not funny, and the
               | punchline is usually tits, but it has the cosmetic
               | structure of a joke.
        
               | r_lee wrote:
               | I think its just by nature very engaging, as dudes will
               | go look at other posts and comment (at least the older
               | ones) about their looks etc...
        
               | socalgal2 wrote:
               | Both can be true. IG/Meta does not promote sexual
               | content. Users promote sexual content. That might be
               | subtle but there is a real distinction.
        
           | dlev_pika wrote:
           | Same with mine - all thirst traps in the search, which I have
           | never really searched for.
        
           | davio wrote:
           | I did "not interested" & "This post makes me uncomfortable"
           | for a solid month and now have a reliable feed of comedians,
           | tacos, golden retrievers, classic jazz drummers, etc. The
           | algorithm thought I turned Mexican and gave me exclusively
           | Spanish content for a month but I just kind of went along
           | with it.
        
             | prisenco wrote:
             | I found that "not interested" didn't work for me, that I
             | had to explicitly state what I _was_ interested in and only
             | then did my suggestions become relevant. It will at times
             | revert to slop and then I have to go through the process
             | all over again.
        
         | mieko wrote:
         | I wonder this too about X: when I sundowned my Twitter account
         | when I started seeing 80% "no question literal nazi-posting" by
         | bluechecks on my feed, I unfollowed everyone and kept the
         | account just to prevent someone posting on what was my username
         | for over a decade.
         | 
         | So now that I follow no one, when I click a link from Reddit or
         | HN to X, my "For You" page is:
         | 
         | - Asian pornography; AI generated "vibes" videos of machines
         | doing "oddly satisfying" things; Elon Musk; American right-wing
         | politicians and pundits screaming about "woke" or jerking off
         | ICE videos; AI or real public sex outdoors at festivals?
         | 
         | Of course, I don't use X, and don't seek this stuff out, and
         | only see it there.
        
         | idunno246 wrote:
         | I still log in fairly regularly and get a bunch of reasonably
         | targeted content, but also a ton of ragebait ai shit like
         | protestors attacking cops. So it's a bit of both, they're just
         | flooded with bad ai posts. It's changed drastically in the past
         | year, from a bunch of posts you could argue make sense, to
         | mostly posts of rage. But the number of actual friends posts is
         | basically zero
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | The problem is you have to be defensive. If you mess up once
           | and click some AI reading Reddit posts or hawk-tua style
           | street interview, you're cooked.
           | 
           | You used to be able to reset by watching stupid financial
           | content with high value like gold coin stuff and cleanse, but
           | Meta is smarter now.
        
             | wildrhythms wrote:
             | Every social media algorithm is like this now. Accidentally
             | viewing certain types of videos are like dropping a nuclear
             | bomb in your carefully nursed algorithm.
        
         | mkehrt wrote:
         | My facebook page, which is where I have friended everyone I met
         | between like 2004 and 2017 is absolute garbage.
         | 
         | But I have a secondary account where I follow a few specific
         | niche groups on a specific topic that are only on facebook.
         | This page is actually fine, and is pretty good at suggesting
         | related pages.
         | 
         | Not sure what the takeaway is for facebook though.
        
         | Groxx wrote:
         | From seeing the feeds of a few categories of people near me
         | (some using it semi-professionally, some just personally, some
         | like me that avoid it unless strictly necessary)... it really
         | does seem to be all of them. Absolute garbage is a majority,
         | and they all complain about missing things they actually care
         | about (though to be fair this has been true ever since it left
         | colleges).
         | 
         | Facebook is truly awful to everyone. I can't believe people
         | don't try harder to leave.
        
         | georgemcbay wrote:
         | > But if we did use it (which I have no intention of doing), it
         | would start being more reasonable.
         | 
         | It would start being more "relevant" but not necessarily more
         | reasonable.
         | 
         | I hadn't used Facebook regularly in many years but recently
         | posted a story about the passing of my 18 year old cat. I did
         | this as a way of informing friends and family I don't
         | communicate with on a constant basis that I was going through a
         | bad time (I was very fond of my cat).
         | 
         | My Facebook algorithm is now just almost entirely a solid wall
         | of people I don't know announcing the death of their cat. A
         | non-stop parade of personal tragedies.
         | 
         | I can see the connection of how one thing led to the other but
         | it also highlights how clumsy and soulless these algorithmic
         | systems are.
        
         | conductr wrote:
         | I think it just throws the most engaging content at you hoping
         | you get lured into using it more then the algo will update once
         | it sees how you behave.
         | 
         | For me, it's almost all thirst traps for several years. More
         | recently it learned that I like 90s/00s rock, which is a fad
         | again, so it started showing me some of that. Also, I am a
         | sucker for stand up comedy clips and it feeds me that now. So
         | that was a hint that it does start to become more reasonable.
         | But, if I start to scroll it only goes 3-5 posts deep before
         | thirst gets put back in the rotation no matter what I do.
         | 
         | I've been using it more than ever in the last ~2 years, just
         | because my old friends started sending me videos to the music
         | related stuff so I click it and it opens in FB. We chat on
         | messenger and I guess that little DM airplane logo is how they
         | found a way to get me into it on occasion. Granted, my friends
         | send me like 5-10 videos a day and I only watch them about once
         | a month to get caught up, I can tell it's trying really hard to
         | make a DAU out of me.
        
         | steve-atx-7600 wrote:
         | Same. F|_|cking wasteland. Immediately logged out. Won't go
         | back.
        
         | socalgal2 wrote:
         | It does make me wonder if that system is a net positive or a
         | net negative. For me, I go, see suggested stuff which is all
         | trash, and never want to engage with FB ever again. I stay only
         | because of friends but only check once a week or so. Where as,
         | if they got rid of all suggested stuff and instead it was 100%
         | friends and family and every 5 posts, an ad. I'd engage with it
         | far more often.
        
         | veunes wrote:
         | Active account with real interactions = more normal. Which is a
         | pretty telling product story in itself
        
       | Octoth0rpe wrote:
       | The current leader for me for worst questions suggested by Meta's
       | AI was on a photo someone took of some conspiracy theorist's van
       | with the spraypainted message "THEY EAT BABIES IN DENVER". The
       | suggested questions from their AI were:
       | 
       | - Baby-eating restaurants in Denver
       | 
       | - Denver's unique food scene
       | 
       | wtaf meta.
       | 
       | Beyond that, I simply don't see how Meta can possibly ever
       | monetize their investment in AI. People are and will continue to
       | be willing to pay OpenAI, Anthropic, google, microsoft. No one
       | will pay Meta for their AI. And if their investment was only a
       | couple million and they got some useless suggested questions out
       | of it, whatever. But the size of their investment sure makes it
       | look like someone thinks they'll make money off of it.
        
         | mv4 wrote:
         | Meta doesn't need to monetize their AI directly the way OpenAI
         | or Anthropic would do. Meta runs ads, and they can use AI to
         | help advertisers create content, target people, engage, etc.
        
           | Octoth0rpe wrote:
           | > Meta runs ads, and they can use AI to help advertisers
           | create content, target people, engage, etc.
           | 
           | It is hard to imagine the level of spending they are doing if
           | that is the sum total of their use case: shoring up a moat
           | for which there really aren't any significant competitors in
           | the first place. It seems like it can only be justified by
           | eventually rolling out some kind of subscription service
           | for... something, but for the life of me I can't think of
           | what they might be able to actually sell to people or corps.
        
         | alex1138 wrote:
         | Yeah, it's incredibly ham fisted. I do not understand
         | Zuckerberg's brain. The man is incapable of coming up with a
         | good product or it was some product engineer given absolutely
         | free reign to do whatever they wanted. AI summaries do not go
         | with a product made for posts of friends
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | Meta doesn't need to monetize their investment in AI. They need
         | to their eyeballs and not lose them to OpenAI, Anthropic or
         | Google. If they give away AI and people use it to make content
         | for FB/IG that's all they need.
        
           | Octoth0rpe wrote:
           | > They need to their eyeballs and not lose them to OpenAI,
           | Anthropic or Google.
           | 
           | At this point I'm not sure how they could 'lose eyeballs' to
           | those 3. There doesn't seem to be any kind of market overlap.
           | Unless we're talking about the very abstract sense of doing
           | _anything_ other than use a meta product is a potential lost
           | eyeball in which case you might as well add the national park
           | system to the list of people they can't lose to, and I don't
           | think that's a useful way to talk about the cost/benefit of
           | Meta's ai spending spree.
        
             | HWR_14 wrote:
             | They are all "things I do on a cellphone" and more
             | precisely "things with infinite ability to absorb free time
             | on a cellphone" (as opposed to things like Uber which exist
             | to get something done).
             | 
             | It scales in a way that national parks do not and national
             | parks are not competing for the time you spend in the
             | bathroom at work.
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | I mean... I've been a Facebook user since 2006 and I don't see
       | much spam at all in my feed. So I guess like PaulHoule said, it's
       | a cold start problem and the defaults are terrible.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | > I logged on for the first time in ~8 years
       | 
       | That's the problem. Your friends and liked pages have all moved
       | on and aren't posting anymore. The algorithm has no idea what to
       | show you.
       | 
       | FWIW I don't use Facebook actively but do log in once in a while,
       | mainly for marketplace and neighborhood groups. And a ton of my
       | friends are still active there (might be giving away my age). The
       | first post on my feed _not_ from a friend is at #14, and it 's a
       | clip from a comedian, so content I don't mind. Then one at #18,
       | which is an article posted by a local newspaper. Further down at
       | #25 or so from the onion. Keep scrolling I see New York Times,
       | Gothamist, Subway Takes, Cracked (that's still around?), WTA.
       | Overall my feed is almost entirely posts from my friends from the
       | last week or relevant news, and I see zero AI slop or other posts
       | of the kind that are in the article.
       | 
       | So basically - it's all about the algorithm and your connections.
       | A "cooked" product doesn't make a trillion dollars every quarter.
        
         | alex1138 wrote:
         | This could be, but the complaint about Facebook has always been
         | people are posting but the feed won't show them posts from
         | friends
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | > The algorithm has no idea what to show you.
         | 
         | If you run into somebody you don't know, your first instinct
         | shouldn't be to start showing them porn.
         | 
         | I don't use Facebook but I do use YouTube and their
         | recommendations are horrendously bad for me. So many AI videos.
         | 
         | For some reason last night it thought I wanted to see bogus
         | videos of porch pirates stealing a package that's actually a
         | glitter bomb. I clicked through to the comments and the top
         | comment was something like "Who are these AI videos for?" and
         | the response was something like "Me. I know they are fake but I
         | like seeing thieves get what's coming to them."
         | 
         | Mike Judge is a prophet.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfOMeLk6m0
        
           | StilesCrisis wrote:
           | Facebook still knows what websites you've been visiting, even
           | if you haven't logged in for eight years. The Facebook Pixel
           | tracks page visits, and it's easy to join your Facebook
           | account to your browsing history if you ever log into any
           | website using your email address. Assuming you are usually
           | using the same computer or IP, the user profile could be
           | pretty detailed. It's actually surprising they don't do
           | better here.
        
       | brycethornton wrote:
       | I still use Groups and Marketplace but my home feed is blocked
       | thanks to News Feed Eradicator. Check it out if you haven't heard
       | of it. It's a browser extension that can block the home feed (and
       | more) for a number of social sites.
        
       | arjie wrote:
       | Huh. I thought perhaps it was the usual "why are all the
       | recommendation algorithms showing _me_ gay porn? " class of
       | complaint, but I went and logged in and it seems that he's not
       | wrong though the degree seems to vary. I've got a bunch of these
       | but also a bunch of outrage bait and generic general stuff. I
       | think if you don't use the platform you get the undifferentiated
       | high-engagement stuff which is likely the same as those Taboola
       | chumboxes that people have on their websites.
       | 
       | EDIT: Hilariously, I went there 45 minutes later and I must have
       | interacted with something because now everything is posts about
       | football (along with the "i want an argument with my husband"
       | post!). I'm in the Bay Area Gooners group but that's been over a
       | decade, so presumably what happens is they don't run
       | recommendations until someone shows activity. Just logging and
       | browsing the feed must have triggered it because I didn't see any
       | football stuff last time except BAG.
        
         | jalapenos wrote:
         | > Bay Area Gooners group
         | 
         | Just searched this and was not what expected
        
           | ngruhn wrote:
           | unfortunate naming in retrospect
        
       | goatsi wrote:
       | >But on the other hand, I hadn't logged in in nearly a decade!
       | 
       | This is the cause. With a long dormant account, facebook has no
       | real content to show you. Your friends will almost all be dormant
       | as well, even the facebook pages and groups you were part of are
       | likely to have fallen silent. Facebook will feed you directly
       | from the slop firehose rather than show you a blank feed.
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | It's a complete mystery to me how Facebook operates. Like, they
       | need money to keep the lights on, right? Where is the money
       | coming from if no humans are using the platform?
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | An astonishing number of people use Facebook daily, and
         | Instagram is also a huge revenue generator. The company itself
         | is thriving despite terrible products.
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | isn't the money coming from advertisers placing ads, even if no
         | one is really paying the placed ads attention?
        
         | sylos wrote:
         | Government funded!
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | Yes, erm, why do you think they get the tax breaks!
        
         | wcfrobert wrote:
         | Ad duopoly with Google.
         | 
         | Half of all humans on Earth uses Meta products (Facebook,
         | Instagram, Messenger, WhatsApp, Threads). These products are
         | free for you to use. But for Meta, your attention is the
         | product which they sell to advertisers.
         | 
         | 99% of their revenue comes from ads, and 1% comes from VR
         | stuff.
        
       | gniv wrote:
       | I login for the groups. Some private groups have a ton of useful
       | info that's well organized, plus helpful folks that are eager to
       | answer questions.
        
         | fusslo wrote:
         | local town offices mostly use facebook for news and events.
         | 
         | I signed up in 2023 after not using it since 2008. I can't
         | believe how bad the marketplace feature is compared to
         | craigslist. It's trying to get me to keep coming back and serve
         | me different ads. I just want to see all the local ads that
         | match my search!
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | And that's almost as sad as Discord "forums". It's useful
         | information that's completely siloed out from the public web.
        
           | unsharted wrote:
           | On a positive note, posts from groups I was interested in
           | have been targeted at my feed by the algorithm. Still not
           | public, but least there is some sort of exposure to "passers-
           | by"
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | (I know, frying pans and fires) I started a Google Group as an
         | alternative to a Meta group that I don't want to need Mata to
         | participate in.
        
         | ks2048 wrote:
         | Groups and Marketplace seem to be the main genuine uses in many
         | non-US countries.
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | Man who remembers when a big Mac was a wholesome and tasty meal
       | option now shocked to find that, under capitalism, the wrapper is
       | actually more nutritious than the meal itself.
        
       | bananamogul wrote:
       | Facebook is just fine.
       | 
       | This is mostly about OP, not Facebook. The reason he sees tons of
       | AI images of AI girls is because that's the kind of content he
       | consumes on various Meta platforms. When I login to Facebook, I
       | see none of that. So...
       | 
       | I am in a couple dozen active groups across a variety of topics -
       | guitar, tech, TV shows, history, tabletop gaming, etc. - and 99%
       | of posts are on-topic chatter by humans.
       | 
       | I prefer Reddit because it's longer-form content but with
       | communities, it's about where there's a center of gravity - a
       | subreddit, a FB group, a Discord, a traditional forum, etc. I go
       | where the people are. And a lot of those people are on FB for
       | some niches.
       | 
       | The "FB is nothing but AI slop and ads" is a myth. I have
       | interesting conversations with people I don't personally know (in
       | a real life sense) on FB every day.
        
         | artemonster wrote:
         | I read a RARE friend-made post, close tab, decide to
         | react/support/comment/like on it, reopen FB and this post is
         | buried forever in the feed, findable only if you search this
         | person again. fuck them for fucking with my feed. Forget if
         | this was a post from some group, since they can be shown to you
         | out of order, good luck finding it
        
         | npilk wrote:
         | Well, I haven't really used any Meta platforms for at least 5
         | years, so I don't think that's how they're deciding what to
         | serve me.
         | 
         | I could definitely believe that I used to click on more
         | pictures of girls than boys back in high school and college
         | when I actually used Facebook. But they would have been real
         | pictures of people I was friends with.
         | 
         | To your point, I'm sure if I used the product more, the
         | algorithm would get "better" according to what I engaged with.
        
       | da02 wrote:
       | The first half of the last paragraph is a warning: Get schools to
       | stop using Facebook. If they are showing that kind of content to
       | a grown hetero-woman, I'd hate to wonder what they show to
       | everyone else.
       | 
       | I never signed up to that site because I thought sooner or later
       | Google or some startup would just clone it, lower the ad count,
       | improve censorship, and run it at near break-even. Especially
       | since you don't have to save every single post created for
       | eternity.
        
       | bmurphy1976 wrote:
       | My FB feed is filled with slag that's got nothing to do with
       | anything I'm interested in, my friends or family. I have wade
       | through 85-90% of that crap just to see a post from a friend
       | inviting everybody to a BBQ they are having which is already 2
       | weeks past the event. Oh, and every time I log in I have 10+
       | unread notifications that again are more desperate attempts at
       | getting me to engage with the platform and not actually something
       | that should have ever been sent as a notification.
       | 
       | FUCK THAT.
       | 
       | So I don't use Facebook. I cannot wait for this house of cards to
       | collapse in on itself.
        
       | boredtofears wrote:
       | I'm on FB primarily because my local buy-nothing group is on it,
       | so I am logging in multiple times a day. I'm so used to this slop
       | it's pretty funny at this point, but as is the case with all
       | social media, you tune your algorithm as you engage. At this
       | point it pushes things like cooking videos and hockey clips more
       | than the AI slop for me.
       | 
       | Sometimes I'll go down a rabbit hole of clicking AI generated
       | videos just because my curiosity is piqued, and then I'll be
       | stuck getting that slop fed to me for the next week. I have to
       | make a mental note to actively disengage with it as quickly as
       | possible to tip the algo in the other direction.
        
       | bramhaag wrote:
       | My feed has devolved into AI generated propaganda with a scary
       | amount of genuine support. Police brutality against minorities
       | and other politically relevant groups; all fake but with hundreds
       | of seemingly real replies cheering them on.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | Maybe the replies are also fake to drive the narrative
         | 
         | It is interesting where you go on (eg. echo chambers) but like
         | 9gag for example is super racist and doesn't seem to be
         | moderated.
         | 
         | Like TruthSocial do real people actually use that? Crazy
        
           | efilife wrote:
           | They are not fake. I've also seen these and checked
           | commenters' profiles. Real people, in the 35-50 age range.
        
             | ge96 wrote:
             | I wonder if these are the people that cause a ruckus at
             | protests ha
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | How can you tell by just looking at their profile? Bots
             | have for over a decade been able to generate a profile with
             | a real looking picture (usually just scraped from the web)
             | and a realistic sounding bio.
        
               | ge96 wrote:
               | Tangent but reddit allows people to hide their
               | post/comment history which is fine I guess but it's not
               | great for that reason, trying to see if an account is a
               | bot or not. Other than age can't tell anything about that
               | account.
               | 
               | I notice more and more accounts use it, particularly the
               | spicy commenters. Which is whatever, I try to stay away
               | from social media now, this is SM here but at least it's
               | more technically oriented/useful.
        
               | bramhaag wrote:
               | People can curate their profiles, but not search results.
               | Their posts and comments will still show up if you just
               | search on their user page.
        
               | trueno wrote:
               | yea im surprised i see so many times that people on
               | _hackernews_ are convinced profile activity is real.
               | 
               | theres entire marketing companies that provide what is
               | effectively a botnet of social media activity to generate
               | buzz, promising packages with "social media engagement".
               | disney uses these to try and hype movie trailers, when
               | the recent tron trailer came out it took 1 minute for a
               | bunch of comments that looked like seemingly real enough
               | accounts to be in there posting "im not ready for this"
               | "omg" etc. and yes, these networks of fake accounts on
               | all social media platforms do have non-vacant profiles
               | meaning theyve got comments and stuff all over each
               | others pages. there was a recent smaller production that
               | is suing their marketing agency which promised this
               | deceptive engagement and their implementation shit the
               | bed and all the bots just interacted amongst themselves
               | on the movies instagram page. the movie completely tanked
               | at the box office because they never got their fake
               | accounts to start engaging outside of the movies
               | instagram account.
               | 
               | everyone focuses on the actual content itself as the
               | subject of AI platform abuse, but are we really so naive
               | to think that the companies pouring millions of dollars
               | into these efforts are too stupid to understand that
               | controlling the narrative involves requires simulating
               | human feedback?
               | 
               | its in our nature to want to "go to the comments" to "get
               | the real tea" and. im just going to say right now that
               | yeah, the entities deploying these types of accounts are
               | well aware that that is how many of us look for
               | perspective. they're not stupid, and it's easier than
               | it's ever been to game commentary in 2026.
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | It's mostly all ICE engagement bait on both sides. In the same
         | way we are all guilty of upvoting an article without reading
         | it, they will amplify their ideas or viewpoints by signal
         | boosting a video. The same way an echo chamber forms around a
         | questionable news site that is often proven wrong or lying. The
         | source doesn't matter anymore only the numbers.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | I stopped when it started showing propaganda from the CCP (at
       | least it was clearly labelled as such).
       | https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/chinese-state-...
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1i67ja9/whats_going_...
       | 
       | It was already slop before that.
        
         | esseph wrote:
         | > I stopped when it started showing propaganda from the CCP
         | 
         | What did you do when it showed you propaganda from other
         | countries?
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | Well, I'm in the US, I already know how to recognize US
           | propaganda and ignore it :)
           | 
           | I don't think I was shown anything that was clearly labelled
           | as "state-sponsored-media" from any other country and I don't
           | think I saw anything that was propaganda, but not labelled as
           | such, although I typically scrolled past the obvious ads and
           | AI slop so I might have missed something.
        
             | _3u10 wrote:
             | Yeah, it definitely never labelled state sponsored media
             | from the UK or Canada for me. Living in Paraguay, it still
             | doesn't label it as a state sponsored propaganda. I'm not
             | sure why propaganda from Eastern / Mainland Taiwan gets so
             | much attention, the legitimate government there certainly
             | does not sponsor it.
        
       | vjk800 wrote:
       | I recently joined back to Facebook to follow some local groups. I
       | barely see anyone I know posting on Facebook anymore. Even the
       | local group seems kind of dead considering how many people live
       | here.
       | 
       | So where are people now? If I want to get informed on local
       | events, etc., where should I go?
        
         | tomstockmail wrote:
         | Your local library? Mine has a bulletin board where anyone can
         | pin something (like Pinterest, but in real life) and numerous
         | events. If yours doesn't, start one?
        
       | qq66 wrote:
       | Facebook doesn't care about Facebook.com anymore. The value of
       | their business is almost entirely in Instagram, with some future
       | potential in WhatsApp.
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | I mean, if they cared about Facebook they wouldn't have
         | launched Threads.
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | While I mostly agree, Meta cares a great deal about
         | facebook.com/marketplace, which has been hugely successful.
        
           | qq66 wrote:
           | Do they make any money from Marketplace?
        
       | dathinab wrote:
       | > (I dunno, maybe those are all bots too.)
       | 
       | I wish,
       | 
       | but from personal experience I'm afraid quite a bunch of them are
       | creepy old guys which have no idea how creepy they have
       | become(1), because they are in a bubble with mostly only other
       | creepy old guys
       | 
       | (1): Like I don't mean people which always have been creepy or
       | "secret/hidden" creepy. But people which through increasingly
       | more "not caring" and echo champers/ad bubbles and similar
       | twisting their world perception/social feedback loop have become
       | increasingly more creepy in the last 10-20 years.
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | In German we have a word for old people who post with their
         | real name under such posts: Klarnamensexboomer ('real name sex
         | boomer')
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | Facebook in particular, and social media in general, is an
       | excellent example of making short-term decisions ultimately
       | leading to your doom.
       | 
       | FB of course started as a way for college kids to follow each
       | other and see what's going on. Then rather than a chronological
       | feed we got the newsfeed. This was hugely controversial,
       | actually. Apparently ~10% of the user base threatened to quit
       | over it [1].
       | 
       | But why did they do it? Because it increased engagement. And
       | every social media platform since has followed the newsfeed
       | model.
       | 
       | But the big thing (IMHO) that led to FB's destruction was sharing
       | links. I bet this too increased engagement but it ultimately
       | leads to your feed being flooded with your weird uncle posting
       | conspiracy theories.
       | 
       | All social media platforms have moved away from this idea of
       | following your friends and family. They're all now a way of
       | disseminating "news" and following celebrities. How social groups
       | keep in touch now is group chats.
       | 
       | I firmly believe this recommendation model is headed for a
       | reckoning with governments around the world. We have the Meta
       | trial going on now, the EU investigating platforms for addictive
       | practices (where is this same smoke for sports betting and crypto
       | gambling I wonder?) and so on.
       | 
       | In the US, this comes back to Section 230, a law established in
       | the 1990s that created legal cover for user generated content
       | because it shielded platforms from legal liability as long as
       | they met certain requirements (eg moderation, legal takedowns).
       | The alternative is to be a publisher (eg a newspaper) who are
       | responsible for their content.
       | 
       | I believe that the algorithmic newsfeed has created a way to let
       | social media platforms act as publishers but enjoy thei
       | protections of being a platform.
       | 
       | Let me put it this way: if, for example, you as a publisher make
       | endless posts about the evils of Cuba, how is that different from
       | having user-generated content where you promote anti-Cuba content
       | and suppress pro-Cuba content? In my opinion, it isn't,
       | functionally. This will ultimately come to a head.
       | 
       | Anyway, back to Facebook, I know some still use groups but really
       | who uses FB anymore? For awhile, Meta had the golden goose with
       | IG but even that seems to be in decline. Twitter has declined way
       | from its peak and was never mainstream. Snapchat enjoyed a very
       | young audience for ephemeral messaging. I have no idea what the
       | current state is. It seems like Tiktok is the only platform still
       | enjoying growth.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.fastcompany.com/4018352/facebooks-news-feed-
       | just...
        
       | nickla wrote:
       | I deleted my account in 2005 when I noticed that it wasn't just
       | for getting to know local groups. Before I deleted it I was
       | contacted by a pretty woman who had 100 friends who were all the
       | same last name as me. That's all she wanted to do is contact
       | people who were "related". I had the suspicion she was a bot.
       | People call me stupid for doing so, but now it is just bots?
        
         | ASalazarMX wrote:
         | There were some fun things like that back then. One of my early
         | Facebook accounts was a videogame alias than included the work
         | "clown", and I received invitations from other users that had
         | "clown" in their names, its circle of friends became a virtual
         | circus.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | Instagram is serving me literal porn when I browse shorts (for
       | instance women showing their private parts). It's amazing that
       | they are unable or maybe don't want to block it.
       | 
       | Facebook basically has sexual content spam as in the OP article
       | all the way.
       | 
       | It's to the point I'd never open either app when in public.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | > It's amazing that they are unable or maybe don't want to
         | block it.
         | 
         | I'm not convinced they care about moderation outside of legal
         | necessity.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | This is illegal in the UK, as they have to do age check for
           | adult content. Also showing person porn without consent
           | constitutes some form of sexual assault.
        
       | zoogeny wrote:
       | I log into Facebook website a couple of times a week to browse
       | Marketplace. I very rarely check the feed (once a month?) since
       | almost no human I know posts there. But my feed has 0 thirst
       | traps when I just checked. It was some musicians I follow, one or
       | two pictures posted by friends, the workout routines from a
       | distant family member, local news and then a whole bunch of
       | comedy skits and old comic strips turned into reels.
       | 
       | It is 60% garbage but actually the 40% that is there is
       | completely different and valuable compared even to YouTube (where
       | I spend the lions share of my social media time). But I actually
       | think that only looking at it once a month is the best way since
       | if I look at the feed more often I notice it slowly skews more to
       | 90% garbage and 10% value.
        
       | h05sz487b wrote:
       | The original moltbook. Just bots talking to each other.
        
       | mirekrusin wrote:
       | I think author goes on porn sites and it skews algo towards crap
       | like that (no cookies/incognito/etc doesn't save you from them
       | tracking where you move), especially if he's not active on fb
       | then that's the only signal they get.
        
         | hmokiguess wrote:
         | Takes one to know one? Could you elaborate
        
           | mirekrusin wrote:
           | Meta is $201B total revenue business, virtually all
           | advertising.
           | 
           | Instagram is estimated to generate half of ad revenue.
           | 
           | WhatsApp and Messenger contribute relatively little to ad
           | revenue.
           | 
           | So facebook.com alone must be generating around $100B revenue
           | annually.
           | 
           | It's impossible that something generating this revenue is
           | serving AI generated NSFW teens pics with botnets commenting
           | on those pictures only.
           | 
           | Real humans must be engaging with real ads at massive scale
           | to make this money.
           | 
           | Failure mode for people reporting "I didn't use fb for a
           | while, then I come back and see adult-like dominated content"
           | sounds like plausible explanation of ad revenue optimized
           | algo with weak, singular signal.
           | 
           | It could also be just cold start problem where algo has zero
           | engagement signal and yields thirst traps for { gender: male,
           | age: ~30s, engagement_history: [] } state.
           | 
           | But it's hard for me to believe that - frankly it doesn't
           | sound like the best output if you want to capture somebody
           | who has real friends and family in their network, did the
           | algo really learned that people with this input state click
           | likes on pics like that?
           | 
           | Why not just serve engagement from friends network or even
           | "wish happy birthday to X tomorrow" instead - sounds like
           | better way to engage to me.
           | 
           | ps. I also don't use fb but I do login maybe once a year /
           | every two years to double check I'm not hacked, can still
           | login etc. When I do it I may spend few minutes scrolling and
           | I can see just posts from my network (double checked again
           | now, lgtm).
           | 
           | Whatever issue OP has, they probably should spend few minutes
           | engaging, maybe just dismiss/click don't like/hide/whatever
           | it is to signal they're not interested - algo should pick it
           | up and their feed should look more like what they expect.
           | 
           | What's your explanation?
        
             | hmokiguess wrote:
             | I took the OP post at face value and that they preach what
             | they say. If OP said he's disgusted by those things then
             | wouldn't the ads be doing a bad match against the target
             | demographic? I would expect ads, the largest revenue
             | machine as you mentioned, to work really well. So to accept
             | your statement would mean OP is sort of lying, that that
             | content is a good match for OP and they are just trying to
             | avoid it and hide that.
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | "Facebook is just clickbait slop and is making billions" is more
       | the opposite of cooked. They managed to turn garbage into
       | dollars, and people are eating it up for as long as they're
       | allowed to do exploit their market position.
        
       | lgl wrote:
       | The interface... Oh.. the terrible terrible UI on desktop...
       | 
       | Switch tabs, come back.. it refreshes everything and you can
       | never go back.
       | 
       | Comment threads with 100+ comments with only a "show more" link,
       | which again.. se previous paragraph.
       | 
       | See a video, click fullscreen icon. Doesn't go fullscreen, goes
       | to some weird modal window, muted. Click fullscreen again..
       | 
       | And I'm sure I could go on... It's really a sad shell of the
       | simplicity it once was.
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | That's what metrics-driven development gets you.
        
       | QuadrupleA wrote:
       | Holy crap. What a dystopia. Guess some of this blood money went
       | into free Llama models and the react.js ecosystem (dubious gift
       | to the world).
       | 
       | Is it possible to make money these days without being ethically
       | bankrupt?
        
       | dash2 wrote:
       | This is the tech version of "nobody I know voted for Nixon": FB's
       | position in the US & Europe is very misleading from a global
       | perspective.
       | 
       | In the Philippines, say, Facebook _is_ the internet. Every
       | business runs on it. People use it instead of news. Everybody
       | uses Messenger to chat. You get free minutes with your phone that
       | are specifically for FB /IG/Messenger.
        
         | nathanaldensr wrote:
         | As someone with a Filipina wife and who's traveled many times
         | to the Philippines, your characterization is exactly correct.
         | Facebook is _the_ option, not just one option.
         | 
         | Interesting side fact: The Philippines is #1 in social media
         | usage in the world.
        
           | nojs wrote:
           | > The Philippines is #1 in social media usage in the world.
           | 
           | By what metric?
        
         | michaelbuckbee wrote:
         | Addendum to this: my filipina aunt is elderly and I was
         | absolutely shocked at the amount of highly specific AI
         | generated content seemingly targeted directly at her on
         | Facebook.
         | 
         | Except instead of thirst traps it was a weird mix of outrage
         | porn, religious imagery, and kids + pets being cute, singing or
         | rescued from odd situations.
         | 
         | I asked a few questions of her to try and figure out if she
         | like really grasped that it was AI, and she knew the general
         | idea, but there's already so many filters and choppy edits of
         | things it was honestly just too hard for her to make the
         | distinction.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | I had a similar revulsion watching older folks in my family
           | scroll and scroll through obvious AI slop and AI ragebait.
           | They can't even really tell it's AI, and they just sit there
           | gobbling it all up, even though it's 100% nonsense. I mean,
           | on one hand, who am I to tell people what media to like and
           | consume, but on the other hand, I kind of fear for their grip
           | on reality.
        
             | cleandreams wrote:
             | This is not Facebook but I have a young friend who gets her
             | news on Epstein from tiktok. She is convinced they were
             | eating babies. I do worry (a little) that she will go over
             | the conspiracy theories deep end. I told her tiktok news
             | was bad "mental hygiene" but she didn't get it.
        
               | arczyx wrote:
               | > She is convinced they were eating babies
               | 
               | There are indeed allegations of that, so it's not
               | impossible. You can read it yourself here:
               | 
               | https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA001
               | 476...
               | 
               | > On the yacht he witnessed babies being dismembered,
               | their intestines removed, and individuals eating the
               | feces from these intestines
        
               | firtoz wrote:
               | Looking at the rest of the file, I'd rate the credibility
               | of this as 2/10.
               | 
               | But of course I can also see how this could have been
               | taken as fact and spread like wildfire. I wish good luck
               | to the investigators, wow.
        
               | m000 wrote:
               | Which is exactly the point of the parent. Before Epstein
               | files you would probably rate the rumour at 0/10
               | credibility.
        
               | DaedalusII wrote:
               | this is a member of the general public who filed a report
               | to the FBI. it carries about as much weight as a post on
               | 4chan. you can see the sarcastic response from the FBI
               | officer as well
               | 
               | it is exactly this kind of content that is so pervasive
               | and misleading. the FBI get thousands of reports like
               | this every day saying that george bush is a lizard,
               | antarctica is full of UFOs etc.
               | 
               | Let me use the same sentence structure as above, with
               | another example to highlight the absurdity of it:
               | 
               | "a member of the general public alleged angela merkel was
               | receiving instructions from a russian UFO scientist that
               | had contact with an insect alien spieces in alpha
               | centauri, so its not impossible.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | > _She is convinced they were eating babies. I do worry
               | (a little) that she will go over the conspiracy theories
               | deep end._
               | 
               | Nothing to worry about; she already has.
        
               | gzread wrote:
               | There is real, but weak, evidence the Epstein gang were
               | eating babies. A lot of past conspiracy theories are
               | suddenly seeming more plausible in light of the Epstein
               | files.
        
           | halapro wrote:
           | The Filipino Facebook world is absolutely atrocious. You
           | can't go 5 minutes in a public place without hearing a
           | barrage of asinine sound effects and enhanced laughter
           | emanating from these loud phones.
        
         | dlisboa wrote:
         | I don't see it as misleading at all. You're leaving out half
         | the world and implying it's doing fine. Regular Facebook usage
         | in Brazil is also non-existent and it's the 5th or so biggest
         | Internet market. China doesn't have it. I'm not sure about
         | India usage. So if FB isn't popular in the US, EU, China,
         | Brazil, etc, that's an extreme amount of market loss.
        
           | underlipton wrote:
           | WhatsApp covers a lot of the remainder. When I worked at a
           | job with frequent contact with international guests, the vast
           | majority of people from Africa and SEA, and a good portion of
           | those from Latin American and MENA, were on it. In fact, the
           | first time I'd heard of the app was from them. This was about
           | 10 or 11 years ago. It might have changed since then, as
           | Facebook has for us, but Zuck's empire (read: illegal
           | monopoly) has been dominant globally.
        
             | insane_dreamer wrote:
             | Sure, but WhatsApp and FB are really completely different
             | things, despite both being owned by Meta.
        
         | testing22321 wrote:
         | Yup. I spent time in 35 countries in Africa. FB is the
         | internet.
        
           | dguest wrote:
           | Does FB data count against your data quota in these
           | countries? I've been quite a few places where it's impossible
           | to buy a sim card that doesn't give you free facebook and
           | WhatsApp.
           | 
           | You can't use the real internet without asking your friends
           | to pay for it.
        
             | testing22321 wrote:
             | That was common, as was the FB lite app
        
       | Legend2440 wrote:
       | My facebook feed is mostly low-effort reposted memes from
       | tumblr/twitter/reddit, political ragebait, and screenshots of
       | jokes from TV shows.
       | 
       | It's usually not AI (at least not obviously) but it's still slop.
        
       | plagiarist wrote:
       | > Why do women feel refreshed after arguments
       | 
       | This sort of thing is perfect ragebait that Facebook et al love
       | to serve to their products.
       | 
       | The only problem for FB is that there's nowhere to angrily
       | contradict. I suppose their algo feed shunted this author into
       | the young male to incel radicalization pipeline? They must serve
       | differently enraging suggested questions once they have more data
       | on the viewer.
        
       | next_xibalba wrote:
       | This amounts to an anecdote and an opinion. What are the actual
       | engagement numbers? I suspect Facebook is doing just fine.
       | 
       | My own anecdotes are that Facebook Groups tend to be the nexus of
       | legacy social features and that Marketplace has overtaken
       | Craigslist for person to person sales.
       | 
       | But the feed is now more akin to TikTok than friend feed 1.0 from
       | the late 2000s.
       | 
       | Again, I'd love to see actual Facebook engagement data, not some
       | guy's opinion.
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | If you want to see your friends posts, you have to click the icon
       | of people. I agree that the default feed has become absolute
       | garbage.
        
       | AJRF wrote:
       | I use Facebook for marketplace and when I logged in the first
       | post I saw was the half time score for a football game that
       | happened 3 weeks ago.
       | 
       | They are not sending their best.
        
       | CrzyLngPwd wrote:
       | I have a similar experience on both FB and IG.
       | 
       | I only log in to see what friends/family are doing, and I have
       | fewer than 100 friends on both added together, but I have to
       | scroll and scroll to see anything by those I am interested in.
       | 
       | Whether it's AI or not, it's all irrelevant slop to me.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | I was also surprised to find that Facebook feed ads are now ai
       | chumbox quality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox
        
       | radpanda wrote:
       | I haven't used Facebook in probably a decade or so. I've missed
       | out on Facebook Marketplace apparently - at least 5 people in
       | this thread mention using Facebook for that specifically, and I
       | have heard numerous friends talk about snagging good stuff
       | person-to-person like I used to do with Craigslist. OTOH, I
       | haven't heard anything especially good about Facebook
       | Marketplace's UI or features, just that "everyone is on
       | Facebook", so it reaches a lot of people.
       | 
       | I wonder what will be next after Facebook Marketplace dwindles
       | (assuming eventually "everyone" is no longer on Facebook). Going
       | back to Craigslist? Something new?
        
         | chistev wrote:
         | I've never seen "OTOH" used before but I understood what it
         | meant from context. Lol.
        
       | lich_king wrote:
       | I can sympathize with this take, but I think it misses the point:
       | the platform is _not_ broken. It 's delivering people precisely
       | what they want. If you look at the version of this for young
       | people - TikTok, Snapchat stories - it's the same thing. Busty
       | models, increasingly AI generated, and various made-up
       | "heartwarming stories" or rage bait. Go to YouTube, and you have
       | more of the same.
       | 
       | This is not even an internet-era thing. Before that, some of the
       | best-selling magazines were basically celebrity gossip. Facebook
       | just found a way to scale it and make more money off of it.
       | 
       | The only thing that surprises me now is that people _don 't
       | actually mind it_ if you point out that they're liking,
       | commenting, or resharing AI slop. It doesn't even matter that the
       | story wasn't real. It's enough that the kitten is cute, or
       | whatever.
        
       | zzzeek wrote:
       | all the AI / crap shown in this post is the _not awful_ part of
       | facebook.
       | 
       | the awful part is the intense swarm of hateful bigots that arrive
       | at any post that shows any kind of misfortune on the part of
       | people who are not white and republican. I'm pretty sure that a
       | large number of these accounts are not bots; they're real people
       | living around the country, seething in bigoted hatred who can now
       | post with impunity the most vile and disgusting crap I've ever
       | seen.
       | 
       | Example: A local news post shows three boys who have been
       | reported missing (yes, people's children missing, and no, this is
       | not about immigration - for those posts, the hate and racism is
       | vastly worse). The three boys happen to be Black. Only one
       | comment is actually displayed beneath the photo: "They all look
       | the same to me!" - then more (I'm cutting and pasting these from
       | the actual post just now): "Tell them by their hair??? No???"
       | "How can you tell one from another?" "Did'n do nuffin man"
       | "Missing or escaped!?" comments flooded by revolting, actual
       | racism, against innocent children who are potentially in severe
       | danger. Moderation is not an option at all here, there's
       | thousands of these people swarming any such post, the posts are
       | from some local news source that comes from an aggregator of some
       | kind that does no moderation of any kind, nobody cares, it's just
       | a huge platform for vast mobs of the most deplorable people you
       | ever hoped didn't exist.
       | 
       | This site needs to be closed down like yesterday.
        
       | rmoriz wrote:
       | I can't understand how such AI slop ca make money on FB or
       | TikTok. I mean hardly anything gets viral.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | They capitulated to TikTok by adding thirst content and suggested
       | content based on activity.
        
       | josefritzishere wrote:
       | I nuked my fb account years ago. I wasn't sure at the time if I
       | was craving more substance or if it was becoming more vapid.
       | Looking back not... definitely both.
        
       | hexage1814 wrote:
       | >Click to show mildly sensitive content (revealing clothing)
       | 
       | Those warnings are stupid.
        
       | mattfrommars wrote:
       | Facebook is still has excellent marketplace
       | 
       | Only that keeps me going back.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | I stopped using Facebook for a while but I agree that their
         | marketplace used to be pretty good for a while, that until it
         | started to be spammed with scams. It became really unusable
         | IMO.
        
       | holoduke wrote:
       | For me Facebook is no longer relevant for friend stuff. But I
       | find it pretty good in group stuff. For example their are groups
       | about my town where I live. Historical groups or modern ones. Or
       | a group about a specific car model I own. I just have to filter
       | out all the ai / porn slop that goes into my feed.
        
         | joninous wrote:
         | > a group about a specific car model I own
         | 
         | This is basically the only reason why I occasionally log in to
         | Facebook these days. Facebook groups seems to be the place
         | where car owners gather to share information regarding their
         | vehicles, at least here in Finland. I have found discussions in
         | these groups very valuable e.g. when I'm diagnosing a problem
         | or evaluating whether some defect will be covered by warranty
         | or not.
        
       | cwoolfe wrote:
       | what comes after facebook?
        
       | dmschulman wrote:
       | One thing I've noticed is a large difference between what's
       | served on Facebook's desktop site and what's served on their
       | mobile version. I don't use the app, I just log into facebook.com
       | on my phone, but the mobile version is serving 100% more of this
       | AI slop than on desktop.
       | 
       | I think it's obvious why given the way users interact with
       | sites/apps on their devices vs on desktop (they want to make FB
       | mobile as TikTok-like as possible), but it's really striking how
       | much of Facebook on mobile is just a bunch of AI slop at this
       | point. I see some creep in on desktop too, mostly within the
       | Reels/Shorts section (same creators/videos on both platforms,
       | that is), but to see my recommended feed content be so vastly
       | different indicates a lot to me about how the algorithm
       | interprets user behavior and a lot of Meta's thinking about
       | mobile audiences.
       | 
       | EDIT: mind you I don't follow a single topic or favorite anything
       | on the platform, the content being served/recommended to me is
       | purely based (as far as I can tell) on gender/demographic info
       | they know about me and user behavior.
        
       | hsuduebc2 wrote:
       | It's garbage now it's main purpose is to confuse older people
       | with ai slop or ragebait them with politics.
       | 
       | It's really unfortunate that these people don't know, don't
       | understand or even don't believe that this is algoritmic feed
       | tailored specifically for you.
       | 
       | I have people in my family which basically believe that there is
       | a pride march every Tuesday in cities around or country.
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | Yeah, I have a Facebook that's about 2-3 years old now, and I use
       | it mainly from Marketplace. But man, if I just accidentally go to
       | the feed, it's just a bunch of spam and some sort of bait,
       | whether it's rage bait or thirst traps or anything like that.
       | Facebook is maybe trying to see if I'll engage with it, but
       | mainly because I use the app for Marketplace, it just continues
       | to recommend garbage.
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | Next time someone is confused about the meaning of the word
         | "Enshitification" just pull up Facebook.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | I never opened an account. For me facebook was like this from day
       | 1. I thought it was cooked in 2009. I guess I was somewhat wrong.
        
       | varenc wrote:
       | Another aspect of FB's decline: it's increasingly buggy. Too many
       | issues to list, but curious if others have noticed this as well?
       | Last week I got stuck trying to login via mobile web, kept
       | approving the login via the mobile app but the web never seemed
       | to receive that approval and I just had to give up.
        
       | jcgrillo wrote:
       | I sometimes use marketplace, it works better than craigslist for
       | finding cheap firewood logs, used car parts, and other random
       | shit. I made a burner account for that. It worked fine and I was
       | able to ignore the rest of their garbage products. However, I had
       | to delete the app from my phone because the fucking thing
       | wouldn't stop with the notifications. BTW if any of you assholes
       | work at Uber or Lyft--same problem. My new pattern for using this
       | garbage, and only when I absolutely must, is:
       | 
       | (1) download the app (2) use it for whatever i need to get done
       | (3) delete it
       | 
       | TBH this article is interesting, I haven't actually looked at fb
       | since I last had an account ca. 2009. It was headed that way
       | then, and I'm not surprised it got there.
       | 
       | But back to the usage pattern above, if someone at Apple is
       | listening please build a sandbox for these malicious apps that
       | just fucking silences them _unless I choose to run it_ by which I
       | mean literally not a single CPU instruction of their code runs
       | unless I explicitly tell it to. Thanks.
        
       | Ancapistani wrote:
       | I use Facebook a lot, but not for the social feed - Marketplace,
       | business pages, and ads.
       | 
       | I've never interacted with their "shorts" feature, and it's _all_
       | young women and girls in as little clothing as they can manage.
       | It's to the point that I don't open the Facebook app in public.
       | Ridiculous.
        
         | karmakurtisaani wrote:
         | They're selling me the life of a divorced dad as a goal of some
         | kind. It is amusing to an extent.
        
           | justonceokay wrote:
           | It's telling that targeting "men" has a markedly different
           | effect than targeting "father". In a real way TikTok has an
           | opinionated viewpoint of what is important to men and being a
           | father is not one of them
        
         | partiallypro wrote:
         | Same, I have never interacted with their Facebook reels/videos
         | but all the video thumbnails are practically just videos of
         | porn stars/OnlyFans style content. Instagram isn't as bad on
         | the Reels side, you'll get good content there...but the feed
         | itself is dreadful, I never see anything from friends. It's all
         | just slop from bigger brands/publishers. At this point, there
         | are just chat services to me and my friends.
        
           | com2kid wrote:
           | My FB reels are educational content , music and artists.
           | 
           | It is pretty much identical to my YT shorts feed, which means
           | two algorithms have settled on almost identical content.
        
           | gs17 wrote:
           | > Same, I have never interacted with their Facebook
           | reels/videos but all the video thumbnails are practically
           | just videos of porn stars/OnlyFans style content
           | 
           | For me it fluctuates between animals and thirst traps. It's a
           | really odd recommender system.
           | 
           | > Instagram isn't as bad on the Reels side, you'll get good
           | content there...
           | 
           | Seems to depend how far you scroll, the first dozen will
           | usually be good, clean recommendations. After that it goes
           | downhill.
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | Facebook owning the local classifieds section is often
         | overlooked.
         | 
         | Offer up is dead in my area. Craigslist is a joke. Everything
         | happens on FB marketplace. Vendors sell food, gyms liquidate
         | old equipment, small furniture stores post their entire
         | inventory.
         | 
         | FB isn't monetizing any of that beyond ads for related
         | products, which I guess is how they monetize everything.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Whatsapp too, I only caught a glimpse of that fairly recently
           | after we had some local political issue (an asylum seeker
           | center to be built nearby, nothing gets people riled up than
           | something like that). Now I'm in a "post stuff to pick up for
           | free" group, lol.
        
         | jhaile wrote:
         | This is one reason I'm really annoyed they are getting rid of
         | messenger.com and requiring you to go to facebook.com to see
         | your messages. I much prefer going to the specific site for
         | chats and not having to see the feed...
        
           | skobes wrote:
           | I think you can still go directly to /messages/ and not see
           | the feed.
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | Same, Facebook Marketplace is really good at my location
         | because there is nothing else and never have been. It's not
         | like Facebook destroyed something, no one else offered a
         | classified sites like this
        
           | ok123456 wrote:
           | Craigslist.
        
             | haunter wrote:
             | There is a world outside of America
        
               | mckn1ght wrote:
               | What does this mean here? The first several cities
               | outside the US that I tried on craigslist were direct
               | hits, with postings. People could use craigslist, they
               | just don't.
        
               | insom wrote:
               | Kijiji
        
         | ergocoder wrote:
         | The reels section is ridiculous. It's definitely NSFW. Facebook
         | doesn't support hiding it permanently.
         | 
         | Like what you experience, I cannot use Facebook at work
         | anymore.
         | 
         | Any Facebook PM out there? Can you make it a setting to hide it
         | permanently?
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | They can. They won't.
        
         | shpx wrote:
         | Facebook is running the same kind of engagement-maximization
         | algorithm on Marketplace postings, so half of my suggested
         | postings when I open Marketplace is girls posing in the clothes
         | they're selling.
        
         | mccr8 wrote:
         | I think the trick to making the "shorts" feature stop showing
         | scantily clad women is to use it actively a bit, and only watch
         | the videos that are decidedly something else. I did that for
         | awhile and now my videos are like "let's see what happens when
         | you pour lava on some soda bottles" which I'm not sure I care
         | that much about but at least it isn't embarrassing.
        
       | thepaulmcbride wrote:
       | This is exactly the same experience I've had. I recently re-
       | installed the app to use marketplace after moving to the US. My
       | feed is mostly AI generated half naked women and AI generated
       | conservative rage bait. It is so obvious that it's AI slop, but
       | none of the comments ever mention it. I too assumed they were
       | bots.
        
       | nc wrote:
       | It's your feed.
       | 
       | Everyones feed is different.
       | 
       | It depends on how much you train the algorithm.
       | 
       | Yours is untrained, therefore slop.
        
       | overfeed wrote:
       | I don't know if author coined the term, but "Meta's Gooniverse"
       | is a better descriptor of its properties than "Family of apps"
       | they use in quarterly reporting.
        
       | savolai wrote:
       | Fb purity browser addon helps, though its ui is quite cryptic.
        
       | rco8786 wrote:
       | I just logged in to mine to see, I also can't remember the last
       | time I looked at my news feed. My experience isn't _quite_ as bad
       | as OPs, but certainly plenty of AI slop and lots and lots of
       | accounts that I don 't follow and have never heard of.
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | Also something that frustrated me a lot is that when browsing
       | with the web browser on a computer, there is absolutely no way to
       | share a link to a post.
       | 
       | For exemple there is a post with details about an event that will
       | happen, when you look at available options: you can't click on it
       | to go to a dedicated page like on LinkedIn, there is no option in
       | the menu to have a shareable link. You can share with: someone on
       | fb message, a group, your wall, things like that but no link.
       | 
       | But on the phone is it possible.
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | There's a perma-link when you click on the date of the post.
         | But you're right, on the 'Share' button they have 5+ options,
         | none of them is "copy link" or similar.
        
       | garyrob wrote:
       | I'm 70. Most of my high school and college friends are on
       | Facebook, and some other friends. So I use it (including its
       | Messenger component) a lot to keep in touch! I know it's a
       | generational thing. Just thought I'd mention it.
        
       | ieie3366 wrote:
       | You are just not the target audience. Meta is a trillion dollar
       | company and their algos are extremely optimized.
       | 
       | It probably detected your gender (male), age, location, social
       | graph, as a combination of all these that you would be interested
       | in AI-generated softcore pornography. And for the average user
       | with your stats, they absolutely are.
       | 
       | Of course, nobody at Meta hardcoded their algorithm to do this:
       | it's just naturally found out the kind of content a person with
       | your specs loves. Sorry, OP
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | yup.
         | 
         | I get a couple of thirst traps in my feed, but not many. I
         | definitely get a metric ton of AI shit.
         | 
         | The stuff I'm actually following, friends, etc is pretty
         | diluted.
        
         | ndarray wrote:
         | They're clearly not that optimized when the user ends up
         | complaining publicly. Don't tell others what they're supposed
         | to like because some algo said so. Very cringe.
        
       | goldkey wrote:
       | They're crushing it with anyone over 45
        
       | beeflet wrote:
       | beautiful
        
       | MiddleEndian wrote:
       | The default experience probably sucks, but I aggressively block
       | anything even mildly annoying on my Facebook newsfeed, and I like
       | what's left:
       | 
       | Mostly Simpsons memes, Seinfeld memes, Pro Wrestling memes,
       | Sopranos memes, and then intersections of those memes (Seinfeld
       | Pro Wrestling, Simpsons Pro Wrestling, etc.). Some nerd shit.
       | Stuff from the handful of friends of mine and local groups I
       | interact with who still post on Facebook. Maybe <1% total garbage
       | like what the article describes but I immediately block any
       | groups or users who post anything even slightly annoying. I
       | almost never watch any video content at all. It's unironically
       | better passive content than anywhere else left on the web,
       | probably because all the people trying to be hip have gone
       | somewhere else lol
       | 
       | However whatever their UI is sluggish as hell and I'm surprised
       | this wasn't discussed. You'll click block user/group and it will
       | respond multiple seconds later (on my symmetric 1Gbps FIOS
       | connection) and UI elements will jump around. FB messenger is
       | slow as shit and occasionally will fail to decrypt/load messages
       | entirely, even though it works fine on my phone (don't have
       | regular FB on my phone so can't make that comparison). There's an
       | anti-performance cargo-cult among web devs. Perhaps their metrics
       | only show what it saves them on server costs. But if I did not
       | already use the site it would be impossible to convince me to
       | start.
        
       | littlekey wrote:
       | I agree with the people saying that the product is a lot better
       | once you're actively engaging with pages that align with your
       | interests, so that the algorithm can feed you better content.
       | 
       | That being said, it's still sad that this is the default
       | new/returning user experience. Imagine a world where a new user
       | was met with real posts about a variety of interests, rather than
       | a psychic barrage of insane AI posts.
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | I think even for someone who logs in daily and uses it a bit,
         | it still shovels weird content and even if you repeatedly skip
         | or don't engage with AI slop, you still get a lot of it.
         | 
         | I almost think we are seeing something similar to a CAPTCHA
         | where the engagement is being used to tune which videos slip
         | under the uncanny valley radar.
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | This is not unique to Facebook. Reddit has seen a large uptick in
       | AI-generated posts, or repeated posts from the past.
       | 
       | I think we need to recognize that social media of 2026 is not the
       | same as what we had in 2006. AI generated content, regardless of
       | if it is image, video, or text, is here to stay. And it will only
       | get better and more convincing as the technology improves.
       | 
       | What people really need to ask is this - what do they want to get
       | out of social media? Is it personal relationships and status
       | updates? Is it entertainment? Is it something in between?
       | 
       | The harsh truth is most people at this point use social media for
       | entertainment, and AI content is entertaining, or at least
       | engaging, to most people. Remember that 54% of USA adults read
       | below a 6th grade reading level [1]. It is not perfect, but it is
       | convincing enough that a large enough number of people are
       | beginning to accept it as "real".
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.nu.edu/blog/49-adult-literacy-statistics-and-
       | fac...
        
         | strangattractor wrote:
         | Coining HNs Law
         | 
         | Any mode of communication that depends on advertising for
         | funding will over time t monotonically approach total BullShit
         | Grifting as t increases.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | It already has a name:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
        
         | monero-xmr wrote:
         | Reddit is so insufferably political now it's insane. Like why
         | do 3d printing subreddits need to stand with (insert leftist
         | outrage of Gaza / Israel / Ice / Canada / on and on)
        
           | jmye wrote:
           | Why do you think? Enragement = engagement. You could
           | generously assume that it's users optimizing for posts that
           | get them likes/karma/whatever, or ungenerously assume that
           | the platform itself is gaming engagement via AI or bots, but
           | the effect is the same and it's pervasive. The only out is
           | finding tiny communities that are still communities, and
           | praying they don't grow.
           | 
           | Everyone saw the Facebook model and adopted it. It's why
           | Reddit has the valuation it does (and why it's still insane
           | to me people intentionally use it as a recommendation or
           | information tool).
        
             | monero-xmr wrote:
             | I actually think it's because reddit is supported by a vast
             | group of unpaid labor (moderators) and conspiratorially I
             | believe they (actually) get paid by NGOs and governments to
             | push narratives and suppress others. Although denied
             | (poorly) it is very likely ghislaine maxwell was one of the
             | most powerful moderators of reddit, modding hundreds of
             | subreddits including r/worldnews, up until the day she was
             | arrested
             | 
             | Last comment June 28, 2020
             | https://old.reddit.com/user/maxwellhill/comments/
             | 
             | Arrested July 2 2020 https://www.justice.gov/usao-
             | sdny/pr/ghislaine-maxwell-charg...
             | 
             | One of the most powerful accounts suddenly stops activity,
             | never to return
        
           | thrance wrote:
           | Weren't you the one telling us X.com should replace legacy
           | media? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46891442
           | 
           | As a reminder, a glimpse at X's front page a few weeks ago:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46504404
           | 
           | I think it's very telling how you went to Reddit first when
           | complaining about politics on social media, one of the only
           | big ones that still hasn't been completely invaded by MAGA
           | sycophants. Just admit you take no issues with politics on
           | social media, you just want them to align with your views.
        
             | monero-xmr wrote:
             | X is the most mainstream online community for free speech.
             | It has wildly free speech
        
               | thrance wrote:
               | Have you opened the second link? It's mind-boggling how
               | anyone can still claim that.
        
               | monero-xmr wrote:
               | All of those topics can be found other places if you
               | look, then it updates your algorithm. I mean vaccine
               | skepticism? Youtube and instagram have a million videos
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Sure it does. https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/14/on-elons-
               | whim-x-now-treats...
               | 
               | > If you write the words "cis" or "cisgender" on X, you
               | might be served this full-screen message: "This post
               | contains language that may be considered a slur by X and
               | could be used in a harmful manner in violation of our
               | rules," the warning says. You can continue to publish the
               | post or delete it.
        
               | SamuelAdams wrote:
               | "There are two types of freedom: freedom to and freedom
               | from."
               | 
               | Margret Atwood, the Handmaids Tale.
        
               | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
               | Is a two year old article the only thing you have?
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Nope!
               | 
               | Looooong list at
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Twitter.
               | 
               | Like when they banned posting the word Substack or
               | linking to websites in your profile under Musk for a
               | while. And @elonjet is still banned, despite an explicit
               | promise not to.
        
               | jahsome wrote:
               | It's pretty funny how you tried to completely sidestep
               | the accusation, but still managed to confirm it
        
               | Cthulhu_ wrote:
               | No online platform has free speech. No online platform
               | _should_ have free speech. Besides, free speech is a
               | constitutional  / legal thing, a platform does not need
               | to host it.
               | 
               | Claiming Twitter has free speech (as in absolutist, as in
               | you can say what you want and won't get banned) means
               | you've drunk the kool-aid / accepted the propaganda.
        
           | fullshark wrote:
           | Reddit runs on unpaid labor in the form of moderation, in
           | exchange for this unpaid labor mods want to have cultural
           | influence.
        
         | __lain__ wrote:
         | The reddit bots are quite nefarious. Even in technical
         | communities where no advertisement is happening there are so
         | many posts made by bots either recycling old posts or
         | masquerading as humans doing banal things like complaining
         | about end users or something. Hundreds of bots that do nothing
         | more than pretend to be people complaining about work, really
         | curious what the goal of the operators is with these ones.
         | Makes me wonder if they are bots supplied by reddit to
         | artificially boost engagement.
        
           | themafia wrote:
           | Points are often presented as a proxy for trustworthiness.
           | They're even implicit on sites like HN where certain features
           | only become available once you've crossed a threshold.
           | 
           | It's a bad tool. I always think of the Bill Bur joke talking
           | about Netflix going from 1-5 stars to thumbs up/down. "It's
           | like.. stubbed my toe.. thumbs down. Hitler.. thumbs down.
           | There's too big of a gap in 'thumbs down.'"
        
           | boelboel wrote:
           | Reddit has made it impossible to check the history of
           | accounts this past week. They certainly want to make it as
           | difficult as possible to see if someone is 'real'.
        
         | jcgrillo wrote:
         | It doesn't matter to any of these companies what their users
         | get out of it so long as those "dumb fucks[1]" keep coming back
         | to the trough and slurping up the slop. Eat your rage bait and
         | like it, piggy. Keep that attention economy roaring!
         | 
         | [1] https://www.theregister.com/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | It's not about what users want. It's about what's profitable
         | for the company.
         | 
         | What I want from Facebook is to see what original words,
         | images, or videos my friends and family thought was worth
         | sharing with the world today, and I want to see clearly when
         | I've reached the end of that. I probably don't need to spend
         | more than ten minutes once a day on that.
         | 
         | It's profitable for Facebook to show me as many ads as
         | possible. If I wasn't an aggressive adblock user, the thing I
         | want would have much less potential profit than all the third-
         | party content they want to show me.
        
         | overgard wrote:
         | I don't really think that's how this plays out. Facebook can
         | squeeze people a little longer, but if all you want is
         | entertainment other options seem better. End of the day
         | Facebook's moat is your network, but if it's not useful for
         | keeping up with the people you care about, what's special about
         | it? I see a lot of AI generated stuff on youtube, but the view
         | counts are pretty low, so I don't think most of it is getting
         | much traction (and frankly it's very obvious that it's AI just
         | from thumbnails 99% of the time).
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | The reposts and crossposts are popular because while you may
         | have seen it before, millions haven't.
         | 
         | I think I'm almost at the point of letting it go already. If AI
         | becomes more egregious / apparent, I'm out. I was caught by one
         | already - scrolled for too long, came across some manufacturing
         | video (I love those), but as it went on it became less and less
         | realistic. By the end I was like "huh, TIL robots can make
         | jeans out of banana fiber end to end", but that wasn't true.
        
       | InMice wrote:
       | You just have to click on "Feeds" then you can filter to friends,
       | groups, or pages you follow. That said they have been slowly
       | burying where you can click on "feeds" to get there, so I just
       | bookmark them. I never look at the main page it's just pure
       | garbage.
       | 
       | I will say facebook ads are the most relevant ads ever for me. I
       | click on them all the time because they're actually interesting
       | to me. But at the same time all the products/clothing is so
       | expensive I never convert.
       | 
       | What I dont like is Alerts becoming just another feed to fill
       | with spam and not real notifications.
        
       | mbo wrote:
       | My mother is an international flight attendant in her 60s.
       | 
       | I recently caught a glimpse of her Facebook and I was shocked to
       | discover a version of the website that seemed to be the platonic
       | ideal of exactly what all the Facebook PMs intended. Her feed was
       | filled with the photos of her friends and coworkers international
       | trips and holidays, posts in groups for planning activities in
       | her most frequented cities. But I discovered that my mum was also
       | a frequent "poster" of the photos of her various trips around the
       | world, and the comments sections were filled with with some
       | beautiful messages from her many many friends and family.
       | 
       | From this I learned that there is a subset of the population that
       | Facebook works perfectly for and meaningfully improves their
       | real-world social relationships. And perhaps Facebook has been
       | hyper-optimized for that kind of use case through relentless A/B
       | testing. But I fear my mum is quite privileged to have this kind
       | of experience.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | > all the Facebook PMs intended
         | 
         | That's being awfully generous. I think Facebook PMs intend your
         | feed to be filled with valuable commercial offers that can be
         | monetized by Meta.
        
         | moduspol wrote:
         | They should offer that privilege to the rest of us for a few
         | bucks a month. I'd probably pay.
        
           | cameldrv wrote:
           | The problem is that your friends probably don't post much to
           | facebook, and so they'd show you that, and you'd get to the
           | end and find something else to do, so they have to bulk it
           | up. There is a "friends" feed that's buried under a couple of
           | menus that does this though.
        
             | moduspol wrote:
             | I wouldn't mind seeing an empty feed that says, "your
             | friends didn't post today," or whatever. They have to fill
             | the feed because I'm not paying them and they need the
             | engagement.
             | 
             | But if I were paying them, even a little bit, then maybe
             | they could. But I didn't know there was a friends-only feed
             | so I'll check that out.
        
               | AndrewDucker wrote:
               | Go to the "feeds" page and select "friends".
        
               | Digit-Al wrote:
               | If you are on the mobile app, click on the burger menu
               | and select "Feeds". You will then have a page that has
               | tabs at the top. "All" will be selected by default, but
               | if you select "Friends" you will see only posts from your
               | friends. If you have completely caught up it will be
               | empty and will say that you have caught up and seen
               | everything your friends have posted. There are still ads,
               | but you don't get all the reels, and crap posted by
               | people you don't know.
        
               | wedog6 wrote:
               | You wouldn't mind, but Facebook would mind though.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | You don't need to pay anything. That's just how Facebook
           | works when you have active friends on it and you engage with
           | their content.
           | 
           | I do find it interesting that tech people are so baffled when
           | other people enjoy Facebook and derive value from it. I think
           | we see so many exaggerated headlines about algorithms and
           | feeds that people who don't use the site have a very
           | different idea of what people who do actually use the site
           | are seeing.
        
             | CosmicShadow wrote:
             | Yet my wife uses it daily and has to keep 16 separate tabs
             | open to people and bands she wants updates from because
             | Facebook refuses to put them on her feed, despite her
             | commenting on every post and story from them; she instead
             | gets all these random shitty "suggested" posts from things
             | that she would never have interest in or actively hates and
             | FB should know that. She constantly mutes and reports shit.
             | I get the same thing, but I don't use FB nearly as much.
             | Those same bands have to spam repeatedly because despite
             | having tens of thousands of fans they show everyone that
             | their posts are only shown to 16 people. It's a shit site
             | that maybe works for some folks, but not at all for us
             | active or not.
        
               | JCattheATM wrote:
               | > my wife uses it daily and has to keep 16 separate tabs
               | open
               | 
               | Surely she could just bookmark those pages and check
               | periodically, or subscribe to a newsletter or something?
        
               | CosmicShadow wrote:
               | She checks them every time she's on her computer, no
               | point in closing them and they are always posting to
               | social media every day, whereas you may get a generic
               | email once a month if they even have a mailing list.
               | Instagram is admittedly a LOT better at showing what you
               | want than FB, as she follows them all there as well, but
               | sometimes they post different stuff on each. She wants to
               | both support and help these bands and band members by
               | engaging on their socials so they actually get shown to
               | more people. These are metal bands, so not big by any
               | means, although some of them are still "large" or well
               | known in their genres, but still struggle to get any good
               | traction online. Most people in metal bands still have
               | full time jobs, even if they are at the top of their
               | genre (excluding the mega bands people have heard of).
        
         | jasondigitized wrote:
         | Was she using the 'Friends' tab? Anything else is complete
         | trash.
        
           | bdangubic wrote:
           | This is regular feed. I have another friend that is like OP's
           | Mom, basically posts 4-10x per day. her main feed is
           | basically just her and her friend's stuff, comments etc etc
           | (few ads here and there of course but basically her feed
           | looks like OG Facebook)
        
         | krn1p4n1c wrote:
         | My feed is like this too. I rarely use FB now, but I've
         | aggressively pruned and blocked anything that becomes political
         | or negative.
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | I unfollowed everyone except for a few family members. It
           | really wants to give you the infinite scroll and started
           | showing me some really bizarre stuff. So much AI slop, and
           | random content.
           | 
           | For about a week it kept showing me nursing mothers, no
           | matter how many times I said "I don't want to see this" and
           | blocking. I have no problem with women nursing, but these
           | were done in a way to be sexually provocative.
           | 
           | After that it started showing me AI houses and kitchens, with
           | kitchen taps but no sink basin.
           | 
           | I just gave up at that point.
        
             | al_borland wrote:
             | I made a Facebook account a few years ago for a private
             | group related to a class I was taking. I didn't want to do
             | this, but it is what it is.
             | 
             | Being paranoid, I ran a VM just for Facebook. The browser
             | never went to any other sites, so as far as I know there is
             | no way it could track me or get any actual information
             | about me, other than maybe a very rough location based on
             | my IP. I also setup a burner email just for this and used a
             | fake name/picture.
             | 
             | On a fresh account with no info, my feed was much like that
             | of the linked article. A bunch of thirst traps and various
             | "news" and memes. Occasionally it would tell me to follow
             | stuff so it could actually populate the feed, but when it
             | wasn't doing that, it was giving me this kind of garbage.
             | This was before the advent of generative AI, so I assume
             | these were mostly real photos, but who knows who was
             | actually behind those accounts.
             | 
             | Twitter was fairly similar, but would show a lot of high
             | school kids fighting or general street fights... along side
             | the thirst traps.
        
             | aembleton wrote:
             | I can recommend using Social Fixer addon [1] on your
             | laptop. On my phone, I use Nobook [2] which isn't quite as
             | effective. They both do a good job though of removing loads
             | of the useless stuff on Facebook.
             | 
             | 1. https://socialfixer.com/
             | 
             | 2. https://github.com/ycngmn/Nobook
        
         | curious_af wrote:
         | International flight attendant. So the algorithms for people
         | that travel internationally a lot are drastically different
         | from the people who remain stationary. If Facebook wanted to
         | prevent themselves from negative publicity, they might have a
         | different experience for the people who have political power
         | (international travel might be the best proxy for that)
         | 
         | What you're referring to may also be part of their XCheck
         | program which came to light back in 2021
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > So the algorithms for people that travel internationally a
           | lot are drastically different from the people who remain
           | stationary.
           | 
           | I can confirm the same experience as the parent commenter for
           | my family who still use Facebook even though most of them
           | don't travel internationally.
           | 
           | > If Facebook wanted to prevent themselves from negative
           | publicity, they might have a different experience for the
           | people who have political power (international travel might
           | be the best proxy for that)
           | 
           | I think the much simpler explanation is more likely: People
           | who use Facebook for engaging with friends and family content
           | will see more friends and family content. I don't think this
           | is Facebook playing 4D chess trying to hide content from
           | politicians by detecting who is traveling internationally. I
           | mean, if Facebook did want to have a separate algorithm for
           | politicians, don't you think they could come up with
           | something better than triggering on international travel?
        
             | afavour wrote:
             | I do think it's that but with a dangerous slippery slope
             | embedded within. FB will optimize for engagement no matter
             | what so if you linger on one political post they put among
             | 99 friends and family posts they'll immediately amp up the
             | ratio. You need to somehow maintain a perfect ratio of time
             | spent on FB to fresh family and friends content, otherwise
             | FB will fill the space for you.
             | 
             | My mother in law is an example of this. She's always been
             | "mildly" political, e.g. she liked Planned Parenthood's FB
             | page. Now her feed is a mess of anti-Trump stuff. I'm anti-
             | Trump myself but a lot of these posts are barely coherent
             | and she's mentioned before now when she meets someone new
             | her first thought is whether they voted for Trump or not.
             | To my mind it's a direct result of her slipping down that
             | slope. She frequently has interactions ("fights" is too
             | strong really) with friends and neighbors on her feed who
             | are clearly off piste in the other political direction.
             | 
             | I even had an example of it on my own profile. For some
             | reason I had a post from a local (NY) radio station in my
             | feed, about Mamdani. Curious to click into the comments I
             | saw a cesspit of vitriol by boomer age users, attached to
             | their real names, sometimes with smiling photos with their
             | grandchildren... for weeks after whenever I logged in there
             | would be a new post by a different conservative leaning
             | radio station, ready to make me angry. Engagement > user
             | happiness.
        
               | Throaway1982 wrote:
               | FB Marketplace makes you click on ads in order to tell
               | the platform that you dont want to see that kind of
               | listing anymore.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, clicking on the ad alerts the algorithm,
               | which then shows you MORE of that type of ad that if you
               | had not clicked at all.
        
             | AlienRobot wrote:
             | It would be very ironic if the reason people complain about
             | Facebook so ardently is that they just didn't have enough
             | friends IRL in first place to make Facebook work the way it
             | should.
        
               | xethos wrote:
               | I'd amend that as "didn't have enough [IRL] friends *on
               | FaceBook* in first place", but that starts off a
               | conversation about platforms being only-technically not
               | required socially, network effects, etc.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | I have one circle of friends who are barely online at
               | all. Their phones exist for minimal e-mails and texts and
               | that's it. A couple don't even have a dedicated internet
               | connection at home. Their experience on Facebook wouldn't
               | be good either.
               | 
               | I do agree with your general sentiment, though: Many
               | complaints about Facebook come from people who don't want
               | to invest time into finding their friends online and
               | engaging with friend content. They log in, see what the
               | article sees, assume that's all there is, and abandon it.
               | Most people just move on, but a few will complain about
               | Facebook based on their limited experience from 10 years
               | ago.
        
               | npodbielski wrote:
               | So you are saying that it is authors fault? How about not
               | showing you shit instead when there is nothing else to
               | show?
               | 
               | It is like saying that in order to keep my e-mail inbox
               | full and entertaining from now on your email provider
               | will fill it with AI generated content. Madness.
        
             | mayneack wrote:
             | I'd be shocked if international travel was the algorithmic
             | tell, but in the book Careless People, the author discusses
             | extensively that they (Facebook's political team) did a lot
             | of manually curating the experience for politicians across
             | the world to help push for Facebook's side in whatever
             | issue was important on a given day.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Careless_People
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | it's Facebook, and we've got AI. The "algorithm" is easily
             | just a list of names to match, if they we're going to do
             | that.
        
             | michaelt wrote:
             | _> I don 't think this is Facebook playing 4D chess trying
             | to hide content from politicians by detecting who is
             | traveling internationally._
             | 
             | I agree the triggering criteria isn't international travel
             | - but giving VIP treatment to VIPs isn't "4D chess" it's
             | just business as usual.
             | 
             | You get elected to congress? The moment the list of winners
             | comes out, someone from Comcast finds the accounts and
             | marks them as VIPs. Someone at Uber does the same. Someone
             | at Amazon does the same, and so on.
             | 
             | Typically this will limit who in Customer Services can view
             | the addresses on your account and reset your password. But
             | it can also mean you get free upgrades, put you at the
             | front of the queue, assign your orders to highly-rated
             | workers, etc - or for social media, a curated experience
             | making the site look classy and enriching.
        
           | bko wrote:
           | I think you're overthinking it. She probably just has a lot
           | of real people connections and drives the algo to meaningful
           | interactions. When a ghost logs in, they don't know what to
           | show so default to "general" spam which is just AI generated
           | woman.
        
             | twelvedogs wrote:
             | The algorithm is not optimised for meaningful interactions,
             | even 10 years ago i couldn't get it to even mostly show
             | friends and family after fighting it for a week
        
               | blobbers wrote:
               | Do your friends and family interact on facebook? Could
               | run an experiment to see if it adapts.
        
               | HDThoreaun wrote:
               | The algorithm is optimized to show you content you tend
               | to engage with. You couldnt get it to show you meaningful
               | interaction because you didnt engage with it.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | This is very likely.
             | 
             | It reminds me of people who browse YouTube logged off: they
             | see garbage, spam, rage bait, and sexy girls doing sexy
             | stuff.
             | 
             | But I browse logged in and my carefully curated
             | subscriptions mean I mostly get good quality, relevant
             | recommendations, and almost zero rage bait or outrageous
             | stuff.
        
             | kryogen1c wrote:
             | Lol! "Facebook's not bad, you're just a loser"
        
             | blitzar wrote:
             | > When a ghost logs in ... so default to "general"
             | 
             | I do this with youtube - and I get to see what is broadly
             | popular.
             | 
             | It is grim.
        
           | 0x457 wrote:
           | Could it be due to someone actually using facebook so
           | algorithm works in their favor. When I worked in REDACTED
           | when you not frequent user you'd get generic "what is popular
           | for everyone" feed because empty-feed = bad-feed.
        
           | underlipton wrote:
           | I've been convinced for some time that access to some
           | resource component that determines the quality of search/AI
           | results is divvied up likewise. Why waste resources on users
           | who have no audience or influence? If they're frustrated, who
           | cares? Instead, identify the people who people already listen
           | to, and make sure their experience with the platform is
           | optimal. Even if the service is _horrible_ for the vast
           | majority of users, the gatekeepers and tastemakers will
           | insist that they 're just imagining things.
        
           | nindalf wrote:
           | The XCheck program has nothing to do with anything you're
           | thinking of. You read some old misinformation and didn't read
           | the post debunking the misinformation.
           | 
           | Source: me. https://nindalf.com/posts/xcheck/
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | I have a feeling it might be less "avoid negative publicity";
           | more "give a premium experience to influencers" (for a broad
           | definition of that term).
           | 
           | A user - like mbo's mother - who posts a lot of content which
           | generates a lot of reposts and other positive interactions is
           | basically a gold mine for Facebook. It's in their interest to
           | treat that user with kid gloves to get them to keep posting,
           | even if it means foregoing some revenue opportunities.
        
         | pyreko wrote:
         | I have this with Twitter surprisingly.
         | 
         | I only use it for animal pictures, art, and to follow artists.
         | I usually just use the Following page, but my FYP is always
         | just... animal pictures and art, exactly what I want. No weird
         | right wing shit, no weird crypto shit, no drama or ragebait
         | shit, etc... somehow.
         | 
         | I know some day it'll break though.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | Same here. The trick is to unfollow people who start posting
           | things you don't want to see in your feed any more. It sounds
           | so simple, but many people treat their following list as an
           | append-only log.
           | 
           | I've followed accounts for hobbies that later spiral off into
           | the deep end of Twitter's topics of the day, which is always
           | my sign to unfollow them.
           | 
           | Some people cannot resist clicking on things that make them
           | angry, though. These websites continue serving up more of
           | what you click on.
        
             | magicalist wrote:
             | > _Some people cannot resist clicking on things that make
             | them angry, though. These websites continue serving up more
             | of what you click on._
             | 
             | "We're going to keep putting crap in front of you until we
             | find something you click on. And even if you take a breath,
             | don't reply and close it, we now know we have you and we'll
             | keep showing that type of thing to you. Also, even though
             | we're not going to tell you we're doing this, we and our
             | power users are going to blame you for doing it to
             | yourself. lol."
        
           | raincole wrote:
           | I have an account to follow artists on X. Surprisingly, it
           | never pushes even one single blatant AI artist to my feed
           | (not saying I'm an expert to recognize AI-generate artworks,
           | but I've done digital painting as a side gig and.) There
           | might be some paintover or more subtle ones that eluded my
           | radar, but I've never seen the typical AI styles on my
           | timeline.
           | 
           | However, if you check posts remotely related to the US
           | politics the reply section is out of control.
           | 
           | I honestly believe out of Reddit, Facebook, Bsky and X, X is
           | the one with the most reasonable timeline algorithm[0].
           | Reddit and Facebook are unusable except for very specific
           | reasons (asking questions in certain apps' subs/groups). Most
           | people I know irl moved to instagram though.
           | 
           | [0]: Bsky is the worst, but interestingly if you use a third-
           | party feed like 'For You' it's on par with X, just less
           | traffic.
        
             | cleaning wrote:
             | Why do you call it X?
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Same. It feels like the real trick is to get platforms to
           | think you're some kind of important person that could hurt
           | the platform if served too much ragebaits.
           | 
           | And it also feels like they're compelled to maximize
           | ragebaits for some reason - maybe the Web2 is running out of
           | "advertiser friendly" contents.
        
           | xeonmc wrote:
           | > my FYP is always just... animal pictures and art, exactly
           | what I want.
           | 
           | On Bluesky your feed will also have animal pictures and art,
           | just not the kind you wanted.
        
           | suzzer99 wrote:
           | For twitter I have a sports list that I stick to 99% of the
           | time. A little politics filters through, but I've found that
           | to be just the right amount.
           | 
           | When major events happen, I switch over to my full feed,
           | where I follow a bunch of political posters, and go into a
           | blind rage in minutes.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | This is how my parents' Facebook feeds look, too. And my
         | wife's. And my friends who still use it.
         | 
         | I log in a couple times per year and see the same thing. It's
         | nice to catch up with the friends who still use it.
         | 
         | One thing I've noticed over the years on HN is that many of the
         | people talking confidently about Facebook also start their
         | posts with "I'm glad I deleted my Facebook account 8 years ago,
         | but..." and then go on to describe what they imagine Facebook
         | is like for everyone else, as pieced together through the type
         | of sensational headlines that hit the Hacker News front page
         | every day.
         | 
         | There's another failure mode where someone tries to use
         | Facebook but doesn't have any active friends on the site. They
         | might scroll past photos from friends and family to click on
         | ragebait links or engage with someone debating politics because
         | they can't resist an internet argument. The algorithm takes
         | note that this is what they engage with and gives them more of
         | it, while showing less of the content they're scrolling past.
         | Then they wonder why their feeds are full of topics that make
         | them angry.
         | 
         | There's even an explicit feature to tell the algorithm what you
         | want to see less of: You click the three dots and click "Hide
         | post". They even have useful tools to unfollow people without
         | unfriending them, which is highly useful for those people can't
         | politely disconnect from but whose content you don't want to
         | see. Using these tools even a little bit goes a long way to
         | cleaning up your feed.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, people like my parents and extended family treat
         | Facebook like a friendly gathering where everyone knows
         | discussions of politics and religion are off the table. They
         | click "Like" on things they want to see more of. They leave
         | nice comments under photos of their friends and family. Their
         | feeds adapt and give them what they want.
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | I did delete a previous Facebook account, but got forced back
           | into it due to work. I don't really use it for friends much
           | now. It is much better as a result although I still see it
           | trying to pull me one direction or another. I would happily
           | delete the entire lot because I don't find it functional.
           | 
           | "There's even an explicit feature to tell the algorithm what
           | you want to see less of: You click the three dots and click
           | "Hide post". They even have useful tools to unfollow people
           | without unfriending them, which is highly useful for those
           | people can't politely disconnect from but whose content you
           | don't want to see. Using these tools even a little bit goes a
           | long way to cleaning up your feed."
           | 
           | I've really never liked that feature. It is what creates echo
           | chambers, because you just get infinite agreemtn. For some
           | reason, Faecebook only tends to show me one individual's
           | posts over others. We're not unfriendly but not good mates.
           | On the other hand thanks to the features you seem to be
           | talking about, I get to hear about bereavements, birthdays,
           | engagements etc days or weeks after they happened which is no
           | use to me.
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | You keep the content creators happy.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | I only use it for cruise groups and it's been useful but once
         | you scroll the main feed it's baaad. Slop after slop. And what
         | isn't slop is rage bait short form content or bad takes or
         | stolen videos from the vine days it feels.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | The skeptical observer would suggest because her demograph
         | votes, serving ads which benefit Facebook shareholders is good
         | for business.
        
         | tgma wrote:
         | Could it be that the problem is users' own interest in being
         | outraged? A reflection of their mental state and anxiety that
         | they then project to Facebook as if that's the root cause.
        
         | SecretDreams wrote:
         | Facebook used to be like this when it was only for college
         | students. That was the last time Facebook was good.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I logged out of facebook years ago only to find out an old
         | friend / former coworker had died. Everyone knew, because of
         | facebook, but not me :(
         | 
         | It's certainly the social hub for some groups.
        
           | npodbielski wrote:
           | People with those kind of arguments always get from response
           | that if you were not trying to keep in touch with this friend
           | personally then it was not truly a friend. Facebook friends
           | does not equal real life friend.
        
             | iteria wrote:
             | I literally didn't learn that my own grandmother(I guess
             | great aunt) had died until I happen to return home on the
             | day the funeral was occurring. Everyone just assumed I knew
             | because of Facebook and was there because of Facebook.
             | 
             | Sometimes it's not about closeness. It's about people's
             | expectations about how to communicate. My cousin was in no
             | place to do anything but post to Facebook and then
             | collapse. My sister helped him, but didn't think to tell me
             | because you know Facebook. I live 4 hours away so I
             | wouldn't have learned by osmosis.
             | 
             | I have several stories of learning about deaths in the
             | family way after the fact because my family is chronically
             | on Facebook and I'm not. They all live in my hometown and
             | it just doesn't occur to them to actually communicate with
             | members like me who don't live there.
             | 
             | This is basically why I haven't deleted my Facebook even if
             | I don't often log in.
        
         | creddit wrote:
         | Yeah I just logged in to see if it was really this bad an all I
         | got were:
         | 
         | (1) extremely, impressively relevant ads. (2) posts from people
         | I know that were mostly nice except for my uncle who seemed to
         | be posting nonsense.
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | My Facebook feed (I visit just for marketplace) is also not
         | quite like the author's feed. I don't have a lot of AI content
         | or thirst traps. I wonder if he's got some sort of the default
         | young male algorithm experience.
         | 
         | I wouldn't say my Facebook is _good_ -- I don 't interact with
         | it enough for it to be anything.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | My Facebook is honestly nice, it's the most relaxing social
         | media for me.
         | 
         | The promoted posts are books and artists and occasional gym
         | content. Ads are relevant or at least not annoying (SuitSupply
         | seems to think I'm their ideal customer, and I don't mind
         | looking at their handsome models in this season's knitwear).
         | The people I know post mostly about meaningful or harmless
         | stuff.
         | 
         | But it's probably like this because I joined over ten years
         | after everyone else did. I didn't activate my Facebook account
         | until 2018 when I got a job at FB and it was mandatory. Then I
         | found out that it was actually a good way to curate a set of
         | people from my youth that I genuinely wanted to reconnect with.
         | 
         | That's probably what made the difference compared to many whose
         | FB social graphs were built up early and never pruned.
        
           | jcgrillo wrote:
           | Wow they make you use facebook at facebook? That's twisted.
           | That would be like.. idk.. Phillip Morris making you smoke a
           | pack a day.
        
             | wedog6 wrote:
             | I believe it was somewhat like that at large cigarette
             | companies in the heyday of smoking.
             | 
             | An ashtray on every desk and throughout meeting rooms. Free
             | packs of cigarettes you could grab anywhere in the building
             | + a certain number of packs given to you weekly, with your
             | preferred brand recorded. Some amount of social compulsion
             | to smoke at work and during work related social events.
        
               | codethief wrote:
               | I hear it still largely is that way, though apparently
               | they do try to avoid smoking in the presence of their
               | pregnant coworkers these days. Progress! :-)
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | I laughed out loud. "I found that I loved Big Brother from my
           | youth." Genuinely no offense meant, it was just funny.
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | As a middle aged (gen x) woman, my facebook feed is pretty
         | good. It's filled with posts from friends and interest groups
         | that I am a part of. The reason I no longer use FB has nothing
         | to do with the feed, it's because Mark Zuckerberg is an awful
         | person, and I refuse to use his product. The cognitive
         | dissonance is great here, because I still use WhatsApp; it's
         | the best way to stay in contact with my relatives in Europe,
         | and I still use IG, albeit mostly for work, and sparingly.
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | I'm still a FB user even though most friends and relatives
           | have disengaged due to toxicity. But what I've noticed
           | consistently is that any group on FB that has more than 1000
           | members will end up surfacing so much toxic sentiment that I
           | have to unsubstantiated. I'm talking about innocuous fields
           | such as the local road conditions. That one became full of
           | rants about out of state drivers, drivers who don't
           | understand English, people posting license plates of bad
           | drivers, etc. This has led me to a theory that humans just
           | can't behave nicely beyond some threshold group size.
        
             | cyberge99 wrote:
             | I think after a certain group size people feel immune or
             | that their alternative thought might have a better chance
             | of landing with someone.
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | > This has led me to a theory that humans just can't behave
             | nicely beyond some threshold group size.
             | 
             | I think what happens is that the risk of including a
             | critical amount of "toxics" (lacking a better word) such
             | that they can keep a conversation going, increases by FB
             | group size. Without actice moderators it doesn't take much.
        
             | veunes wrote:
             | Once a group gets big enough...
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | > This has led me to a theory that humans just can't behave
             | nicely beyond some threshold group size.
             | 
             | I think you're generalizing far too broadly. The problem
             | you're describing is more-or-less exclusively a problem
             | with online, open-membership groups.
             | 
             | Consider: if the groups you describe were in-person groups,
             | these ranters would constantly be getting disengaged/off-
             | put/disgusted reactions from the "silent majority" of the
             | people in the group. And just these reactions -- together
             | with a lack of any _positive_ engagement -- would, almost
             | always, be enough to make them stop or go somewhere else.
             | 
             | (Or, to put a finer point on that: "annoyed, judgemental
             | silence, and then turning away / back to the person you
             | were talking to" would _always_ put off the _vast majority_
             | of people, with just a few -- people who have trouble
             | understanding non-verbal signals -- persisting because they
             | aren 't "getting the message." And in an in-person context,
             | these few would still eventually be taken aside and given a
             | talking-to, because if they're butting into other in-person
             | conversations with this behavior, they're being far more
             | disruptive than "random new conversation threads" tend to
             | be felt as. Even though "random new conversation threads"
             | can kill a group just as dead.)
             | 
             | The problem with decorum / respect-for-purpose in
             | unmoderated online open-membership groups seems to mostly
             | stem from the fact that people underestimate the importance
             | of non-verbal signals in moderating/regulating behavior.
             | And so there is a dearth of such signals available in such
             | groups. Our brains didn't evolve to play the game of
             | socializing without these signals, any more than ants
             | evolved to coordinate without pheremones. So many people's
             | brains begin to play the game in degenerate / anti-social
             | ways.
             | 
             | From what I've been able to gather, from personal
             | interactions with many people who admit to being "Internet
             | trolls" at some point in their lives... their behavior was
             | almost never intentional maliciousness/active-disregard-
             | for-others on their part. It's rather an emergent behavior
             | -- something they "just ended up doing" -- given a lack of
             | (non-verbal-signal-alike) calibrating feedback.
             | 
             | And why _is_ there so little non-verbal-signal-alike
             | communication online?
             | 
             | Well, for one thing, we often aren't even aware we're
             | giving off such signals; and so, if we need to _consciously
             | choose_ to communicate them (as we do in online contexts),
             | then we simply fail to do so, because the majority of these
             | signals never even rise to our conscious attention as
             | something to _be_ communicated.
             | 
             | And even when we do become aware of them, we often don't
             | feel them to be important enough to be "worth" going to the
             | effort of translating into some more
             | conscious/explicit/non-subtextual form of communication.
             | 
             | And then, even when a strong desire to communicate a
             | nonverbal signal does bubble up within us... most online
             | chat/forum systems are horrible at transmitting such
             | signals with any degree of fidelity, when they transmit
             | them at all. Especially the kinds of signals used for
             | intra-group behavior regulation.
             | 
             | Facebook, for example, has reaction emojis on both posts
             | and comments -- but no reaction emoji that transmits a
             | sentiment like "I disapprove of you saying this; please
             | stop" (e.g. U+1F611 EXPRESSIONLESS FACE or U+1FAE4 FACE
             | WITH DIAGONAL MOUTH). Rather, the only reaction emoji
             | available are those meant to react sympathetically to the
             | emotive content _of_ the post /comment -- e.g. with anger,
             | sadness, etc. (People do _try_ to use the  "anger" reaction
             | to express disapproval of posts; but when the content
             | itself is often "ragebait" / meant to _evoke_ anger, the
             | poster won 't necessarily understand that these reactions
             | are being directed at _them_ , rather than at their post.)
             | 
             | Further, no chat system or forum I'm aware of has
             | participant-visible signals of "detach rate" -- i.e.
             | there's no way for people to know when others are clicking
             | on their posts, reading one line, doing a 180 and running
             | away as fast as they can. (YouTube videos expose this
             | metric to their creators; I think it's actually very
             | helpful for them. It could do with being implemented far
             | more widely.)
             | 
             | (And, to be a conspiracy theorist for a moment: I think, in
             | both cases, this is probably intentional. The explicit
             | purpose of signals that "regulate behavior", after all, is
             | to make people _engage less_ in certain anti-social
             | behaviors. Making available any such tools, will therefore
             | inevitably make any kind of platform-aggregate  "engagement
             | metrics" go down! If they were ever temporarily introduced,
             | they'd have been quickly removed again with this
             | justification.)
        
           | DeathArrow wrote:
           | My Facebook feed is great, my X feed is great. I don't use
           | Facebook and X because I like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk
           | but because I genuinely read interesting things and I
           | interact with people I like.
           | 
           | That being said, I don't spend too much time on social
           | networks because I have lots of other things to do.
        
         | keyle wrote:
         | And yet, every 3-4 posts, Facebook will start interjecting
         | posts that are outrageous, meant to create response. If she
         | interacts with any of those, e.g. even open it wide, or stay on
         | it a long time, BAM, more of those posts next visits.
         | 
         | And the cycle continues and grinds your account down to a
         | complete hellish nightmare where you hate your city, your local
         | councils etc. It's all a rigged platform for creating divide
         | and hate. It drives clicks, it drives ads, it drives agendas.
        
           | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
           | I don't think that's true. I just scrolled my feed really
           | quick, and I had to get 23 posts down before I got an even
           | mildly controversial post. The post wasn't even anything
           | mean, it was a screenshot of an analysis showing that the
           | richest Americans and the Americans who donate the most money
           | don't overlap as much as you might think.
        
           | dingaling wrote:
           | Nope, I've just opened FB in a tab. Top posts:
           | 
           | - Chris Hadfield using a fire extinguisher to show how
           | rockets work
           | 
           | - A friend's trip to a gig
           | 
           | - Video of a restored TWA flight engineer training simulator
           | 
           | - Mountain weather for my region tomorrow
           | 
           | - A rare colour photo of a 1930s biplane
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | I always really enjoyed Facebook -- much more so than any other
         | social media network. It was all friends, friends' content, and
         | groups I was interested in and cared about. Sure it had ads,
         | and a bit of suggested stuff, but mostly it was interesting
         | content, no ragebait, no politics.
         | 
         | But as those friends use it less and less, I use it less and
         | less. And the less I use it, the more "suggested" crap I get.
         | If I don't use it for a week, the site is absolute garbage.
        
           | pants2 wrote:
           | To think I used to log in to Facebook every day, scroll
           | friends' posts until it said "You're caught up!" then leave.
           | 
           | That's almost unimaginable now, but I deeply wish I could
           | return to that experience. Unfortunately as the suggested
           | content got turned up, friends stopped posting, so even with
           | all the browser extensions in the world I can't get that same
           | experience back.
        
             | rconti wrote:
             | Yup. And unfortunately, I realized I've benefitted from the
             | algo too. I tried the friends feed, and I ended up with
             | MORE politics!
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | I have my Facebook feed curated enough that it shows me reels I
         | like (landslides, dance-offs, kids or animals doing cute things
         | - nothing salacious). Of course, AI crap filters in, but a
         | majority are still good.
         | 
         | Even the sponsored posts are very often interesting summaries
         | of historical events or scientific wonders. They're AI most of
         | the time, which goes on and on. So I read the first part and
         | then go to wikipedia if I'm more interested.
         | 
         | I'm also in a bunch of private groups that are spam-free. Some
         | travel-related groups have turned out to be invaluable
         | resources.
         | 
         | So it does work if you train it on what you like.
        
         | harrall wrote:
         | People say the same about Instagram but my feed is like all
         | about making clothes, welding, construction stuff, funny memes,
         | snowboarding, etc. It's all good stuff.
         | 
         | I just don't interact with political content on social media --
         | not because I'm apolitical but I don't want to hear random
         | people's takes on matters.
        
         | wolvoleo wrote:
         | Facebook was this to me. Because I lived in many countries.
         | Just seeing what my friends in other countries were
         | experiencing <3
         | 
         | But they blocked the old timeline where I could just see the
         | updates from everyone I follow and nothing else. And replaced
         | it with this feed with stupid influencer crap. Now I had to
         | weed through all the shit to see what the people I care about
         | were doing. It wasn't worth it for me so I left soon after,
         | like a decade ago.
         | 
         | Maybe they've rolled some of the crap back but it's too little
         | too late for me.
        
         | drnick1 wrote:
         | The privacy cost of Facebook is too high. Even if you have
         | "nothing to hide" today, sooner or later you will post
         | something you wish you had not posted, or someone else will do
         | it for you. Once data about you is out there, it is impossible
         | to remove, and the only recourse is to wait for that
         | information to become irrelevant or outdated (if ever). For
         | example, some employers have been known to spy on their
         | employees through Facebook. Others have been harmed when
         | searching for jobs because of things they posted on FB or other
         | antisocial media, often long ago.
         | 
         | Facebook should not have multiple high quality photos of 1/2 of
         | the planet, their children, pets, friends and family, in
         | addition to their real-time location obtained through the
         | spyware companion app. Not even governments used to have this
         | kind of insight into people's lives not so long ago, and it is
         | certainly very alarming that a spyware/adtech firm now does.
        
           | randomNumber7 wrote:
           | > Facebook should not have multiple high quality photos of
           | 1/2 of the planet, their children, pets, friends and family,
           | in addition to their real-time location obtained through the
           | spyware companion app.
           | 
           | If adults decide to give them all this information aren't
           | they the ones that should be blamed?
        
             | defrost wrote:
             | Perhaps, for the individual photos that each uploaded in
             | ignorance of the bigger picture.
             | 
             | But not for the aggregate warehousing, abuse of data,
             | addiction maximising algorithmic design, insecurity, etc.
             | 
             | That's all on Facebook _and_ other similar mass scale
             | "social' media behemoths.
        
             | alex1138 wrote:
             | Facebook automatically tags people in photos
        
         | KPGv2 wrote:
         | For the longest time, that was my feed, well after most
         | Millennials had moved on. It was spectacular.
         | 
         | But I finally decided I didn't want to doom scroll so much, and
         | when I changed phones, I declined to install the app on my new
         | one, and I logged out on my laptop.
         | 
         | So I almost never am on anymore, and it's always complete
         | trash. Zuck's Trump turn helped the inertia, and now with the
         | revelations that he was trying to party with Epstein how can I
         | even log in anymore?
         | 
         | I think I'm going to reach out to the people who matter and get
         | their email addresses, then hang my FB shoes up for good,
         | twenty-one years after I joined.
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | I live in an European country where Facebook is used often and
         | I can say I have my wall mostly filled with posts from people
         | that interest me and that I interact with.
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | Right. But who fits into that niche? I in general prefer
         | privacy so I don't share fotos of whenever I take a du.. I mean
         | do something semi-interesting to a grand selection of three or
         | four other people out there (or more; but these are already
         | reallife associations). Remote "relationships" rarely work in
         | my experience, excluding a few that are important. But I don't
         | see how that is any business of CIAbook to keep track of.
        
         | harel wrote:
         | That's almost me. I've always used Facebook as a tool to keep
         | in touch with friends around the world. My friend list is 95%
         | people I know in real life. A small fraction of them still
         | posts. I also get a lot of slop in between. The filler posts. I
         | am waiting for a Facebook resurgence or a Friendster comeback.
        
         | Sharlin wrote:
         | My FB experience is still fine after all these years. I can't
         | find _anything_ in my feed that isn 't either a post a) to a
         | group I'm in, b) by a page I follow, or c) by a friend. These
         | days, a) and b) make up the majority of posts - many of the
         | groups have no equivalent elsewhere and are a major reason why
         | I still use FB. Even the reels/shorts/whatever that FB suggests
         | are mostly nice and relevant - cats, trains, music. No slop, no
         | thirst traps, no politics beyond what I choose to follow, not
         | even ads because those are blocked.
         | 
         | Honestly, I've been wondering what _other_ relevant social
         | media there even is for someone like me, an early 40s
         | millennial. Twitter I refuse to use, and nobody 's on Bluesky.
         | Instagram is... fine, I guess, and more lively and "feel-good"
         | in some sense, and also used by the younger folk, but there's
         | less "engagement" beyond liking something and scrolling on. On
         | Facebook comments and actual conversation are in a much bigger
         | role, at least for me. Reddit is great, assuming you curate
         | your subreddits, but I don't have _friends_ there.
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | I think you are very lucky. I get constant political
           | messaging (not from one side of the room either) which is
           | very unsubtle and biased. I get a lot of slop suggested.
           | 
           | I have never used Instagram and don't plan too. Twitter has
           | always been a disaster and a mob mentality, and now it barely
           | shows me stuff I want to look at.
        
             | Sharlin wrote:
             | I wonder if the politics issue is just much worse in
             | certain parts of the world. Nobody bothers to spend money
             | trying to influence the population of a small Nordic
             | country.
             | 
             | As an experiment, I disabled Ghostery and uBlock, and the
             | feed became about 33% ads, which is rather annoying, but
             | the ads were mostly fine. There was one obvious AI slop
             | image advertising a dating site, and one cryptobro ad, but
             | otherwise they were fairly reasonable, relatively speaking.
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | At one point I subscribed to groups on Satisfactory, Factorio
         | and RimWorld and while I don't play much anymore it's always
         | nice to see posts on my feed made by people engaged with these
         | games.
         | 
         | When algorithm doesn't have a handle on you it puts you at the
         | bottom of the barrel that's filled with slop.
         | 
         | I think the problem is Meta doesn't moderate algorithm enough
         | so a lot of users have terrible experience becausd they don't
         | moderate their feeds themselves.
         | 
         | Most people are not self-aware enough to decide that maybe
         | political rants is not the healthiest content to consume. And
         | even if they do, tools for moderation are not easily accessible
         | enough. There should be a huge "Yeah, I hated that." button on
         | each post.
        
         | vanjajaja1 wrote:
         | a common complaint about instagram is that you can no longer
         | see your friends, just creators. i assume creators don't have
         | this problem though, since they're having fun seeing all their
         | creator friends
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | I have a Facebook friend similar to your mother. A solicitor
         | (so makes a lot of money), off travelling to beautiful places
         | much of the time.
         | 
         | However, there is an element of one upmanship about social
         | media. You see pictures of nice holidays abroad, nice cars and
         | happy families... And then you find out some of the same folk
         | are about to divorce or go bankrupt.
         | 
         | The algo keeps showing me one person's feed but not others. I
         | don't mind said person, but we are not close. Facebook tells me
         | about birthdays, bereavements etc often two or three weeks
         | after they happen which is no good.
        
         | firesteelrain wrote:
         | If it wasn't for groups, events, and marketplace, I wouldn't
         | use FB.
         | 
         | Marketplace has supplanted Craigslist near me.
         | 
         | Events - no good replacement. Meetup isn't as ubiquitous.
         | 
         | Groups - nothing as good except maybe groups.io. But, that
         | doesn't have the same common folk. It's still more niche.
         | 
         | It could be that middle America is catching up where big city
         | America has moved on. And maybe that's the demographic that FB
         | is serving now.
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | I don't use Facebook much, and my feed is filled with
         | algorithmic bullshit and almost no posts from friends, family,
         | or groups I'm a part of.
        
         | BorisMelnik wrote:
         | came here to say this also...also on mobile there is a feed
         | that only shows your friends, no "algo." my parents are both on
         | FB and pretty much only interact with their freinds. it is quit
         | beautiful.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | I would love to know what kind of ascetic mental training you
         | have to do to get your Facebook feed to just send you actual
         | people you know and not... well, the slop trough.
        
         | hackernewds wrote:
         | Maybe you are too young to have noticed, but this is how
         | Facebook used to be for every one. Until some a/b testing
         | likely led to short term engagement boosts for news content and
         | that's all you could see - especially during the 2016 news
         | cycle with (allegedly Russian) political ads. Then people
         | stopped posting, and others stopped posting, feedback loop and
         | here we are.
        
           | mgraczyk wrote:
           | This is lie, I was there and this is not at all what happened
        
             | dang wrote:
             | I appreciate the voice of experience but if you're going to
             | post a comment like this, could you please share some of
             | that experience so we know at least some of what did
             | happen?
             | 
             | Otherwise it comes across as a drive-by swipe, which is a
             | human reaction when you know that something on the internet
             | is wrong, but which badly degrades the threads, partly
             | because of the example it sets for others. The life of this
             | community depends on knowledgeable people sharing some of
             | what they know, so the rest of us can learn.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | mgraczyk wrote:
               | Fair and sorry about that
               | 
               | Specifically what happened, and I think this is all
               | public now is that prior to 2016 journalists and news
               | organizations argued that Facebook was demoting news for
               | various reasons. In reality it wasn't very engaging so it
               | was automatically demoted. They promised to boost news
               | more in early 2016, but largely as a result of worse
               | engagement and negative experiences (arguing in comments)
               | Facebook started ranking news worse than other content.
               | This all happened in 2016, months before the general
               | election
               | 
               | And while Russia did run ads, it was mostly not political
               | and the political content they ran had very little
               | engagement. Russia mostly focuses on conspiracy theories
               | and undermining American institutions. Facebook was aware
               | of this in 2016 and certainly did not contribute to it
               | intentionally, and I don't believe even by accident of
               | some kind of misguided A/B testing
               | 
               | The reason Facebook got worse for younger people is
               | because younger people stopped posting.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | My Facebook feed is also like that (although with more
         | underwater pictures of fish). It seems fine. I don't think I'm
         | particularly privileged. I honestly don't understand the hate
         | that FB gets here on HN. Maybe some users are just following
         | the wrong accounts?
        
           | magicalist wrote:
           | > _I honestly don 't understand the hate that FB gets here on
           | HN. Maybe some users are just following the wrong accounts?_
           | 
           | Sounds like you do understand the hate but you don't
           | understand how their feeds ended up different than yours?
        
         | veunes wrote:
         | Your mum's experience is probably what FB is best at: high-
         | trust network, lots of original photos, lots of comments from
         | real friends
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | Interesting.
         | 
         | So the presumption, then, would be that Facebook only turns on
         | the slop-content hose to "fill the void" on many people's
         | dashboards from a lack of organic content from people they
         | follow? I.e. that if you were personal friends with enough
         | other frequently-posting Facebook users, the slop-content would
         | disappear?
        
       | sMarsIntruder wrote:
       | > I know Twitter/X has worse problems with spam bots in the
       | replies, but this is the News Feed!
       | 
       | Probably not using it from ages.
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | > So: is this just something wacky with my algorithm?
       | 
       | No, it's not. Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get
       | almost exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It
       | started about two years ago.
       | 
       | Some other interesting points: A woman posted on reddit recently
       | saying she noticed her son's feed was filled with this stuff, so
       | she created her own instagram account, identified as a man, and
       | had the same feed. No matter what she did she couldn't fix it.
       | She asked other women about this, and they all said their
       | partner's feeds were the same.
       | 
       | This is not a problem for women. At least not one I've ever
       | talked to or read about on the internet.
       | 
       | Another point: I tried very hard to fix this at one point. I went
       | through instagram and hit like on nothing but pottery and
       | parenting videos. For about a week I had a feed that looked like
       | my wife's -- pottery and parenting. And then it reverted.
       | 
       | I got a whole bunch of thirst traps again.
       | 
       | It doesn't bother me anymore, I just tune it out and scroll past
       | it because my feed still has the parenting and pottery too, and
       | my friend's updates, which is what I'm there for.
       | 
       | But it would be good for more people to learn about this so they
       | don't get angry when they see their male-identified
       | partners/friends feeds.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Meta rediscovering the age-old adage that "sex sells". The core
         | concept is little different than old car commercials featuring
         | scantily clad women but with the plausible deniability of an
         | algorithm so Meta can wash their hands of any negative
         | consequences.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | Can confirm. For as long as I've been on facebook (way over a
         | decade now), I've only used it to share pics of my kids/pets to
         | family/friends. I unfollow people who post political and other
         | garbage content. And yet, my feed is nothing but ads and Reels
         | of young women bouncing on trampolines in bikinis.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | One thought I've had is that it has to do with your level of
           | engangement. If like me you doesn't really use social media
           | for more than a few minutes a day (in my case I count
           | Snapchat and YouTube Shorts, because that's what I have),
           | then you start seeing some a lot of boobs.
           | 
           | It seems like the algorithm panics, because you don't engange
           | with anything much, or because your interests shifts to often
           | and it can't deal with it. So it falls back to boobs.
           | 
           | There's also a sad trend of assuming that because you're into
           | lifting, your also misogynistic. The more you engange with
           | fitness content, even if it's training programs or how to
           | correctly do certain exercises, platforms like YouTube will
           | start flinging misogynistic content at you and it's
           | incredibly hard to remove.
        
             | NewsaHackO wrote:
             | The issue is that they are very smart/subversive; they
             | definitely track the amount of time you spend looking at
             | certain pictures vs. others. So while you may be careful
             | not to directly engage with certain material, if they
             | noticed that you pause a _little_ more at certain pics than
             | others, and there is a pattern in the common topic in the
             | pictures that you pause at, they use that information to
             | create your interest profile.
        
               | pityJuke wrote:
               | This is it - you've got to be deliberate in scrolling
               | immediately past anything remotely thirst-trappy,
               | otherwise the algorithm hyperfixates. And then overstay
               | your welcome at the type of content you want to see.
               | 
               | In my experience, it has worked (my discover page is an
               | amalgamation of classic Simpsons, Dropout.tv, and Whose
               | Line Is It Anyway?, while my Reels feed is unhinged in
               | the right way.) But also I've stopped using it because my
               | brain was melting.
        
             | j-bos wrote:
             | > The more you engange with fitness content, even if it's
             | training programs or how to correctly do certain exercises,
             | platforms like YouTube will start flinging misogynistic
             | content at you and it's incredibly hard to remove.
             | 
             | That explains why out of no where I got reccomendations for
             | some gender conflict greentext channel, I had just that
             | week been looking for lifting techniques.
        
               | mrweasel wrote:
               | Yes, I get those as well. Happens everything I've been
               | looking a lifting videos for a day or two. Give it a bit
               | more time and you'll get videos of right wing women
               | explaining why modern women can't get dates.
               | 
               | It is fairly concerning and there's not real good way of
               | telling YouTube that you're not interested. The dislike
               | button does little and blocking the channel is also
               | pretty ineffective as there are a myriad of channels with
               | the similar content which you'll just be served instead.
        
               | j-bos wrote:
               | So I've actually had great results by hitting not
               | interested on all such videos. Youtube is actually my
               | favorite algo because barring unexpected pipelines like
               | fitness to red pills my home feed is 90% things I
               | consider worth watching, assuming infinite time of
               | course.
        
         | elAhmo wrote:
         | I get similar ads in Youtube Shorts. It was appearing only when
         | I was abroad, and I was curious to see what is triggering it,
         | it was mostly: male, 18+, location in country X. Same happens
         | now in a country where I live.
         | 
         | Most of the reported ads don't get taken down by Google,
         | although they are very obviously AI porn ads.
        
         | brational wrote:
         | ha.. I was about to type this exact paragraph. my instagram has
         | no human connections, I only follow local business (food, bars,
         | museums/gardens, non profits, etc) so I can be aware of
         | specials & things. I have no followers. I don't really like
         | anything but clearly engage with cooking stuff, funny animal
         | videos, comedy in general. Multiple languages. lots of
         | crossover.
         | 
         | Honestly it's a pretty great instagram experience.
         | 
         | And yes I'm a middle aged male so no matter what the smut comes
         | back (at least I get it in multiple languages too?)
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | i rarely log into facebook too but i do use marketplace. I just
         | pulled it up on my phone, the "reels" thing was all AI + thirst
         | traps just like you described but the rest of my feed was
         | pretty plain vanilla posts from friends/family i follow + some
         | ads.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | I just tried to repro this.
         | 
         | On my Facebook account, I scrolled through 30 posts without
         | seeing anything thirsty. Mostly synthesizer stuff, stuff for my
         | kids' schools, and a few posts from friends. It definitely
         | knows I'm male because the ads are for men's apparel.
         | 
         | Instagram was the same.
         | 
         | I never ever watch reels or other short form video, so maybe
         | that has something to do with it.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | It's happens in the reels. I don't really see thirsty posts
           | in my feed either, just people I follow for the most part.
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | Yet another reason to avoid attention-span-destroying short
             | form video. :)
        
           | disillusioned wrote:
           | If you click Search in Instagram, what's it show you by
           | default, before you enter a search term?
        
           | thephyber wrote:
           | You didn't try hard to repro it.
           | 
           | Facebook uses your likes / groups / searches to customize
           | your feed. If are active and don't delete your old content,
           | you have already trained FB to avoid the thirst traps for
           | your account.
           | 
           | The article author said he was off-site site for 8 years, so
           | FB was offering him random high engagement content to stuff
           | his feed so he didn't reach the end.
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | he is replying to
             | 
             | > Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
             | exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It
             | started about two years ago.
             | 
             | if meta identifies him as guy and he don't get a thirst
             | trap after a minute then it's totally not "almost
             | exclusively thirst trap".
        
               | trymas wrote:
               | Though OC also said:
               | 
               | > Another point: I tried very hard to fix this at one
               | point. I went through instagram and hit like on nothing
               | but pottery and parenting videos. For about a week I had
               | a feed that looked like my wife's -- pottery and
               | parenting. And then it reverted.
               | 
               | So I guess it depends how active you are? My speculation
               | would be (that would match the article) - if facebook
               | figures out you're a man, but you don't actively like and
               | engage with specific topics - it will default to AI
               | thirst trap slop.
        
               | NewsaHackO wrote:
               | No, if he's been looking at material that indicates an
               | interest in thirst trap stuff for years, then looks at
               | pottery for a couple of weeks, the algorithm correctly
               | identifies that he isn't really into pottery and corrects
               | back.
        
               | throwaway290 wrote:
               | Yep. It's far from "it knows you're male => it gives you
               | thirst traps non stop"
               | 
               | But also I will say that curating algo feed to show what
               | you want is annoying and ultra frustrating, whenever it
               | goes off the rails it makes me want to quit.
        
               | trymas wrote:
               | > he's been looking at material that indicates an
               | interest in thirst trap stuff for years
               | 
               | N is obviously too small to get anything meaningful,
               | though article was about the same problem and article's
               | author haven't visited facebook for 8 years...
               | 
               | Cannot say about FB or IG, but on Youtube I get way too
               | many "AI girlfriend" ads or video recommendations. I
               | report as many as I can and my subscription channels are
               | as far away from such topics as it can be. Thus I totally
               | understand OC and article's author.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Except that I am into pottery, and I'm a parent into
               | parenting stuff. But instead of just liking the stuff it
               | was showing me, I made the extra effort to seek out that
               | content and like more of it in an attempt to train the
               | algo.
               | 
               | Also, as I mentioned elsewhere, this problem only started
               | about two years ago, and I've had instagram for 15 years.
               | So either they did something differently, or suddenly
               | there was a lot more of that content, but I didn't change
               | my habits.
               | 
               | Also, as a funny side note, scrolling my feed this
               | morning was suddenly thirst-trap free for the first time
               | in years.
        
               | NewsaHackO wrote:
               | I don't have an Instagram, so maybe they did change their
               | algorithm recently. However, remember that the whole
               | concept of "training the algorithm" and "not wanting to
               | mess up your algorithm" has been a common saying for
               | years at this point. Unfortunately, this is against what
               | the social media companies actually want, which is more
               | engagement. So they start to look at other factors that
               | are more difficult to game. For instance, it may have
               | noticed that you linger at images of thirst traps more
               | than other images it shows. In fact, it may notice that
               | while you are purposely liking pictures of pottery and
               | parenting, the actual pictures that you are liking have
               | both thirst trap qualities and pottery/parenting
               | qualities. Not accusing you of anything, just saying that
               | that is the pattern they use because they know that
               | overtly liking thirst trap pictures may be frowned upon.
        
         | pwrsysengineer wrote:
         | I created a Facebook account a few years ago to get in on the
         | local marketplace deals. After opening the website a few times
         | and seeing very suggestive content, I had the idea of tailoring
         | my feed to the most racy things I could find. Eventually, my
         | feed was filled images of children wearing bathing suits and in
         | suggestive positions, censored images of sexual acts, and AI
         | generated images of elderly women with large breasts and little
         | clothing. I was taking screenshots for a while but one time I
         | opened my photo gallery while on the train and realized how
         | embarrassing it looked to have a phone filled with this crap.
         | Edit: Used more respectful language
        
           | someotherperson wrote:
           | Yeah you should probably delete those photos. Nobody is going
           | to believe your story (myself included).
        
             | replwoacause wrote:
             | The part of the story I believe is the part about basically
             | half naked children on Facebook, whether real or AI. I
             | haven't put anything on my profile for the algorithm to
             | tailor content to, since it's used for only marketplace and
             | I've seen some very disturbing content that looked like it
             | slithered off of X. It was as suggestive and inappropriate
             | as you could be about kids, without being full-on porn. And
             | Facebook/Meta seem to have no problem with it. It's a trash
             | heap of a site and everyone involved with it working at
             | Meta should be ashamed.
        
           | xethos wrote:
           | > my feed was filled images of children wearing bathing suits
           | and in suggestive positions
           | 
           | > I was taking screenshots for a while
           | 
           | More than a little surprised this seemed like a good idea at
           | the time, let alone that you did so for a while without
           | thinking "There is no scenario this ends well"
        
             | pwrsysengineer wrote:
             | It does sound bad, and yes I deleted them. I wanted to
             | convince my friends at Meta of what I was seeing. They
             | didn't believe me until I showed them.
        
         | dagurp wrote:
         | I don't get anything like that. Just memes and people
         | complaining about dog poo
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | Are you looking at your feed or the reels? It happens in the
           | reels (and on Instagram if you go the search page, most of
           | the suggested items are thirsty)
        
             | GreenDolphinSys wrote:
             | That may apply to a vanilla account, but if your account is
             | old, then that's just the kind of stuff you click like on,
             | dwell on, bookmark, etc. We have to consider that these men
             | may not be honest about their activity as well.
             | 
             | The search and reels page just shows you what you interact
             | with, and in my experience it tends to overreact to recent
             | input. Look at a couple cat reels for example, and the very
             | next or so refresh will have more cat reels.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | My Facebook account is 21 years old and my Instagram is
               | probably 15 years old.
               | 
               | This problem only started about two years ago. I didn't
               | change my behavior.
        
         | htrp wrote:
         | it's unfortunately not just your algorithm, but the views and
         | likes of people who match your demographic specs....
        
         | dom96 wrote:
         | Have you tried clicking "Show me less like this" on those
         | thirst trap posts?
        
           | disantlor wrote:
           | yes i deleted facebook eventually because they would not stop
           | showing me this stuff despite clicking "show me less" many
           | times
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | Many many times. It works for about an hour. I gave up. I've
           | been on the internet long enough to have a pretty strong
           | mental ad blocker. :)
        
         | eek2121 wrote:
         | Are we using 2 different versions of Facebook? I get nothing
         | except content from my friends. None of it is AI generated. I
         | just logged in because the article was a bit disturbing. The
         | only AI content I found was the small amount a couple of my
         | friends generated, and it was clearly marked as such.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | Based on the upvotes my comment got and the replies, it looks
           | like most people get the experience in the article, and a
           | lucky few don't. Looks like you're one of the lucky few!
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | I've been a male (it's in my profile!) for all 22 years (yikes)
         | I've been using facebook. I don't get that stuff.
        
           | eek2121 wrote:
           | There is definitely more to this. I've been on Facebook since
           | it opened up to the public, and they know for a fact that I
           | am a guy.
           | 
           | I literally only use it to communicate with family. I logged
           | in today on both desktop and iOS, and the only thing I saw
           | were updates from friends/family that I personally know.The
           | only AI things were from a nerdy friend that
           | created/shared/disclosed of it being AI, the rest was real
           | stuff that I already knew about.
           | 
           | If users are seeing this, it is more likely something to do
           | with settings, Facebook not knowing anything about you, or
           | some other mechanism.
           | 
           | I am absolutely not holding them blameless, I am saying:
           | compare notes and identify the actual problem, because I know
           | a lot of folks using Facebook, and from conversations I had
           | in the past hour or two, none of them see any of that, so
           | there is likely something else going on.
        
             | steezeburger wrote:
             | I think they definitely track how long you stay on
             | something as you're scrolling. They show an attractive
             | woman doing your hobby, then it just keeps going.
        
               | j-bos wrote:
               | Yeah it's an optimized skinner box. Any reaction above
               | baseline is sure to be registered and reinforced.
        
             | walt_grata wrote:
             | They aren't blameless, friends and family only should be
             | the default even if you don't engage much. Why would they
             | default it to a bunch of junk.
        
         | dunham wrote:
         | I commented on a relatives post about a giant zucchini, and
         | started getting posts about zucchinis in my feed. A couple of
         | years ago, Facebook noticed that I stopped scrolling for calvin
         | and hobbes comics and started showing me a bunch of those for a
         | while.
         | 
         | I finally got the deletion thing to not error out and am almost
         | at the end of the 30 day deletion period.
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | > _No, it 's not. Once Meta identifies you as male, you will
         | get almost exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do.
         | It started about two years ago._
         | 
         | This isn't my experience at all. I get "sexy girls" reels, but
         | infrequently and that's it. No other "thirst traps" at all,
         | most of my feed is relevant to my interests too. Been on fb for
         | many years now.
        
         | sershe wrote:
         | I feel like for me (a man) algorithm is super sensitive to
         | engagement. If I er I mean my friend would look at these thirst
         | traps, I er I mean my friend would have feed 90% full of them.
         | On the other hand if I watch anything else I get none, and
         | instead it's 90% epoxy table making, home inspection fails,
         | rats solving puzzles, climbing videos or whatever it is I
         | watched. Seems like mixing it up would be better, I can only
         | watch so many rats solving puzzles.
        
         | chupchap wrote:
         | I was able to tame it on Instagram by actively blocking 3-4
         | accounts every day and then engaging with accounts of just one
         | topic; I picked Cricket. That said, I don't use the discovery
         | section much so when I revisit after a few weeks it resets to
         | filth. So the way it works is if I go to the discovery tab and
         | like a couple of random cricket videos. It keeps it sane to an
         | extent. Facebook is a different story though
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | I don't understand. What you describe is foreign to me. My
         | Instagram _only_ has posts from people I follow, as well as
         | generic ads like newspapers. I have not seen any of these
         | thirst trap posts (not that I would find these posts appealing;
         | they aren't my type anyways).
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | > no matter what you do
         | 
         | I made them go down markedly by setting my age to be over 100.
         | Doesn't stop some of the thirst trap 'reels', but all the
         | "Asian women would like to get to know middle aged guys like
         | you!" bullshit went away.
        
         | neoromantique wrote:
         | I don't know, just an anecdote:
         | 
         | I populated my Instagram/FB Account with my interests (I mainly
         | have the accounts to follow local racing leagues /
         | marketplaces), and feeds are mostly cars and tech stuff, seldom
         | do I see any thirst traps in it (including reels).
        
         | boxedemp wrote:
         | This is one of the reasons I always identify as non-binary when
         | asked.
        
           | GorbachevyChase wrote:
           | That is a pretty clever algorithm hack. I wonder if you get
           | bombarded with pharmaceutical ads as a consequence.
        
             | Melonai wrote:
             | I also put "non-binary" somewhere on Instagram, and almost
             | every single ad is clothing related, mostly alternative
             | fashion. I'm guessing that's partially aimed at my
             | interests but I almost never buy clothes online, especially
             | not from Instagram. Occasionally I see advertisements for
             | surveys about LGBT people and also sometimes very rarely
             | support sites on how to find queer-friendly therapists, and
             | I bet I could find someone to prescribe something on such a
             | site, but in total I've probably only seen 1-2 ads like
             | that. Never direct pharmaceutical ads though, I do wonder
             | what that would look like...
        
               | Melonai wrote:
               | I also wanted to add a story about my fiance's Instagram
               | account feed, which degenerated into this sort of stuff
               | out of nowhere one day. He has an account about art, he
               | curated his feed, reels, explore tab so that he can see
               | content by other people in his niche, I've seen it
               | myself, all his reels were correctly related to what the
               | account was about. Then one day, out of nowhere, all that
               | disappeared. It's as if the algorithm completely reset,
               | and reverted this account to a completely blank slate,
               | around 1-2 years back. To this day if you look at his
               | explore tab, it's about 75% thirst traps (and I doubt
               | this is the kind he'd be interested in), alongside some
               | extremely broad reaching content, some soccer memes in
               | foreign languages, some "skits", if you can call them
               | that, and extremely bad generic "memes". I saw it happen
               | in front of me, he did not engage with anything like
               | that, he's also not really the type to click on random
               | thirst traps and he has no trouble spotting the usual AI
               | slop. It happened from one hour to another, in an
               | instant. He's still mad about it.
        
             | boxedemp wrote:
             | I block pretty much all ads, but that's an interesting
             | question.
        
         | steezeburger wrote:
         | I don't like anything even slightly thirst trappy, and my fyp
         | is clean.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | Facebook changes to be more like TikTok. Content to generate
         | addiction so they can sell more adds.
        
         | thephyber wrote:
         | > But it would be good for more people to learn about this so
         | they don't get angry when they see their male-identified
         | partners/friends feeds.
         | 
         | You seem to be assuming that none of them fall for the thirst
         | traps. The reason thirst traps exist is because they work a
         | good percentage of the time.
         | 
         | And despite your confident statement that "it doesn't bother me
         | anymore", you only become "banner blind" to some content. The
         | more authentic the content appears or the closer the topic is
         | to something you are interested in, the more likely you are to
         | engage with it.
         | 
         | I try to avoid BookFace with a passion, but I struggle with
         | these issues on YouTube. My solution is to never browse YouTube
         | while logged in, always use Incognito Mode, depend on browser
         | bookmarks (instead of like/subscribe), and to close the browser
         | as soon as I realize The Algo is pushing content I don't care
         | for.
        
         | disillusioned wrote:
         | Just click search on Instagram and BAM, thirst trap central.
         | Don't have to have ever interacted with ANY of them, liked any
         | of them, or follow anything CLOSE to that content, it's coming
         | for you if you're a male between the ages of 18-99 that,
         | presumably, the algo thinks is straight-leaning.
         | 
         | My _feed_ on Instagram is a bit more curated and sticks closer
         | to that curation: weird music stuff, weird instrument stuff,
         | and because I show my daughter a lot of it, Broadway musical
         | stuff/BTS content/other actually interesting/cool stuff. So
         | generally speaking my IG feed is curated and good. My FB feed
         | is still trash; it feels like it casts a much wider net, but
         | I've also been proactively following accounts that interest me
         | on IG and don't do that much at all on FB (except some stand up
         | comedians, since the format is actually really good for casual
         | bite-sized scrolling).
         | 
         | But IG search... woooooo boy, it's _wild_. I have to hide my
         | phone away from my daughter when I'm trying to pull up a
         | specific account because the search interface is completely
         | bikini-clad crazy thirst content. And again, I've literally
         | never engaged or interacted or even really _lingered_ on any of
         | those posts. It just goes for it.
        
           | wedog6 wrote:
           | One of the creepiest aspects of this is that the 'thirsty
           | content' is mainly mainly AI-generated pictures by spammers
           | who know what they are doing, but also includes 'correlated'
           | posts by normal users.
           | 
           | Eg you have a 15-year-old daughter and post a picture of her
           | smiling in school uniform on Instagram because it's her
           | birthday or something. The algorithm takes that post and
           | shows it to randomly selected men who often interact with
           | pictures of attractive female teenagers, even though none of
           | your other posts get shared like this outside of your
           | connections.
        
             | alsetmusic wrote:
             | > The algorithm takes that post and shows it to randomly
             | selected men who often interact with pictures of attractive
             | female teenagers, even though none of your other posts get
             | shared like this outside of your connections.
             | 
             | What evidence suggests this?
             | 
             | I don't use any Meta services and I absolutely hate them
             | and consider them evil. I know they do awful, terrible
             | things and if someone has evidence of this I will believe
             | it given Meta's track record. But this is far enough
             | outside my current understanding of the awful things that
             | they do, or people claim they do, that it needs a source.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | This is really false. I will join the chorus of others and say
         | i don't get that stuff in my feeds. Although maybe meta doesn't
         | identify me as guy
        
         | 3RTB297 wrote:
         | Also can confirm. From the first moment I started an IG account
         | (at my wife's request), the default algorithm was to give me
         | almost exclusively thirst trap posts with zero geographic or
         | other relevance to me. I had to weed through thirst trap
         | accounts that were brought up before hers - when searching by
         | user name.
         | 
         | I took a few minutes a day to search for cat pictures and
         | cooking videos, and sharing cat videos with my spouse (her
         | reason for using IG). It was a fight, but after a few days the
         | thirst trap suggestions immediately flipped to giving me stuff
         | I can look at in public and not feel like a massive creep.
         | There was a long tail, with occasional "....are you sure?"
         | suggestions, but at this point a couple years of carefully
         | reinforcing the same stuff seems to have overwhelmed the thirst
         | trap suggestions.
        
           | npodbielski wrote:
           | The sole reason for not using those sites is the whole
           | knowledge that you have to do this crap.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | I don't have them... :/
        
         | alecco wrote:
         | I just tried this: browse YouTube with incognito and watching 3
         | engineering vids only (Veritasium, Real Engineering, and
         | Practical Engineering).
         | 
         | The home page shorts are about 50% thirst traps. There is
         | creepy stuff, click-bait, and American politics/news (for and
         | against Trump).
         | 
         | The worst one is a short "this is why ram costs $900" by
         | "discord memes" showing a young girl with revealing clothing.
         | Almost 1 million views.
         | 
         | I closed my YouTube account years ago because it was just
         | pissing me off.
        
           | me4502 wrote:
           | I feel this issue has started to slowly become worse and
           | worse as we've been able to build better "preference
           | profiles" based on small amounts of data. I notice it often
           | when watching a single YouTube video in incognito mode, the
           | sidebar is usually full of fairly racist Australian content
           | (I am Australian). This is something I would never normally
           | see, and not something that's likely coming from whatever
           | video I've decided to watch in incognito. It's likely just
           | assuming based on what's a common trend in my location.
           | 
           | If an algorithm knows you well, it's usually pretty okay, but
           | until that point you're being bombarded with lowest common
           | denominator content based on your demographic. Shorts seems
           | to be even worse; mine is mostly science facts and comedy
           | skits, I didn't understand the "brainrot" descriptions until
           | I looked at a few in incognito mode.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | > No, it's not. Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get
         | almost exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It
         | started about two years ago.
         | 
         | Bullshit. This happens because you engaged. I never engaged
         | with it in the slightest and it disappeared. I mostly just get
         | snakes and local stuff now.
        
           | Sxubas wrote:
           | I can second this. The app basically shows more of what is
           | proven to keep you in the app. It's kinda revealing to be
           | frank: instead of getting mad with it just do some
           | introspection.
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | > Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
         | exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do.
         | 
         | What if you're gay though. They have to be able to detect that
         | somehow too
        
           | Xenoamorphous wrote:
           | Probably still a relatively small percentage of the total for
           | them to care.
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | My understanding is that it's likely somewhere around 7.5%
             | for men and women. Including bisexual people brings it
             | closer to 10%. That's based on self-reporting, I think. I'm
             | not sure how significant that would be in Meta's world.
             | 
             | Among men this would only be 3 or 4%. Probably not that
             | significant given how coarse the strategy itself is.
        
           | alsetmusic wrote:
           | Then they'd undoubtedly show you hot guys. I don't know why
           | this wouldn't be the obvious answer.
        
         | jalapenos wrote:
         | Algorithm has discovered dudes like boobs.
         | 
         | More news at ten.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | I have the same thing on YouTube. I usually use adblock but I
         | used youtube without adblock recently and was startled by the
         | ads. It's either "AI girlfriend", or video games, or video
         | games about AI girlfriends. (I don't play video games, and I'm
         | not interested in AI girlfriend. At least Meta shows me ads
         | about stuff I actually find interesting!)
         | 
         | But my experience is constantly interrupted by images of
         | scantily clad AI generated women. I'm no prude but it seems
         | more than a little inappropriate to me.
         | 
         | Oh yeah and the other 10% of the ads are about exploding
         | children.
         | 
         | I think I am going to install Adblock again...
        
         | Footprint0521 wrote:
         | This is why I gave up on social media
        
         | asveikau wrote:
         | > Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
         | exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do.
         | 
         | I don't know what I did, but this has not been true of my
         | account. A few years ago I did notice a sharp increase of AI
         | slop filled with comments thinking it was real, which I found
         | hilarious, but it wasn't thirst traps. It was more like "this
         | person has a hidden talent and they are sad because they aren't
         | recognized. Show them some love." And the person is obviously
         | fake. I saw the same fake AI people in multiple languages.
         | 
         | Anyway, after a while that stuff lessened a lot, and the feed
         | is a bit more reasonable. Mainly I get stuff that was posted on
         | TikTok a few months ago. Lately there are a lot of quotations
         | from the Epstein files.
        
         | slibhb wrote:
         | Is it because "Meta identifies you as a male" or because men
         | look longer at sexy pictures of women? I assume Meta has some
         | heuristic to determine how long you look at items in their feed
         | even if you don't click anything.
        
         | gcanyon wrote:
         | Facebook knows I'm male, and I see things like this _very_
         | rarely -- on the order of one or two a month. Maybe that 's FB
         | ('s algorithm) testing my "defenses": they/it show me something
         | like that as an experiment, and if I ever clicked on it, the
         | floodgates would open.
         | 
         | But I don't, so it doesn't. Or maybe FB knows I'm happily
         | married and that won't work on me in the first place.
         | 
         | Or maybe FB knows I'm a sucker for chess and go puzzles, so
         | they're my equivalent of this?
        
         | is_true wrote:
         | They might have multiple types of men because it only shows me
         | all kind of outdoor activities + construction tips
        
         | basch wrote:
         | Interestingly enough when you tell Facebook you're not
         | interested in a post you can answer why: doesn't match
         | interests, spam, sexual, insult, don't like creator. One of
         | those isn't like the other.
         | 
         | There's a couple other pseudo-erudite slop holes you can fall
         | into. One is scientific breakthroughs, one is psychedelic
         | philosophical ramblings, and one is historical summarizations.
         | They all kind of fall into a Ripley's Believe it or Not style
         | of trying to be mind blowing.
         | 
         | If you say not interested to every suggested post of something
         | you don't follow, it'll try a couple topics and then revert for
         | a bit to exclusively things you do follow.
        
         | grogenaut wrote:
         | Mine started as women with ample posteriors at hockey games but
         | quickly switched to police arguing with people and really sick
         | ski and snowboarding videos. The police stuff is trailing off.
         | 
         | I do ski patrol, guess it thought, a ski cop, I liked cops and
         | skiing. Oh I was also getting a lot of ai generated bane
         | videos. Felt sorry for that guy, judge was real inhumane to
         | him.
        
         | tallanvor wrote:
         | I don't. Instead Facebook tries to shove right-wing crap down
         | my throat. I'd rather see the thirst trap posts, to be honest.
         | 
         | Snapchat, on the other hand, I had to uninstall because the
         | stuff they tried to make me view was completely and utterly
         | disgusting (think pimple-popping vids and worse). There was
         | only one person left that I communicated with through their
         | app, so it wasn't a real loss for me.
        
         | veunes wrote:
         | The part I really agree with is the social impact
        
       | ksherlock wrote:
       | I have a theory about facebook (and youtube!) showing absolute
       | garbage recommendations.
       | 
       | Somewhere, there's an algorithm designed to increase engagement.
       | And it doesn't care what kind of engagement, so clicking the "I'm
       | not interested in this garbage" button is just as engaging as
       | liking or watching or commenting.
        
       | aero142 wrote:
       | Instagram is gone as well. Everything is fake in different ways.
       | If the video isn't ai generated, then it's influencers acting out
       | a scenario they think will get engagement. I realized that when
       | it's a real video, there is a caption that says some scenario is
       | happening, but there is nothing in the video that shows that is
       | real. I think people are just reposting videos with different
       | captions and testing out whatever invented scenario make the
       | video have the most views.
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | Just reminder that when Meta stock went to ~90 in late 2022 we
       | had non-stop "Facebook is dead I don't know anyone that uses it
       | lol" posts on reddit, hackernews, etc. The stock is ~650 today.
       | 
       | We are not the target audience.
        
       | drivebyhooting wrote:
       | > So long Facebook, see you never, until one day I inexplicably
       | need to use your platform to get updates from my kid's school.
       | 
       | This part here kills me. I've also been forced to engage in the
       | Zuckerverse. I hate WhatsApp.
        
       | dlev_pika wrote:
       | I remember Zuckzuck saying out loud that his vision for the
       | platform was that people wouldn't need actual humans to interact
       | with, and bots is what you'd mostly get.
       | 
       | I've used it enough to understand this is happening now.
       | Literally impossible to distinguish, unless you know the person.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | What happens when you log on to Facebook with uBlock Origin (not
       | lite), plus EFF Privacy Badger, with appropriate settings,
       | enabled? Is it possible to get to a state where some/most of
       | these Facebook-suggested items are not visible? Or is there no
       | separation between the promoted/artificial and organic (if I can
       | use that term) content?
       | 
       | I wouldn't know myself; I tried Facebook in... I think 2010 or
       | so, but found it to be highly addictive and not worth it, so I
       | quit after several weeks. Since then, while I knew that I
       | occassionaly missed some useful group to be in, I've not
       | regretted the decision.
        
       | j45 wrote:
       | This could be true, and/or a large percentage of the people who
       | spend a large amount in the economy are on these platforms.
       | 
       | The surprising effectiveness of Meta Ads for certain audiences as
       | counter-intuitive as it seems is one example.
        
       | eastbayjake wrote:
       | This dynamic carries into Threads, where Meta AI slop is
       | aggressively pushed in the feed.
       | 
       | There's also a significant amount of viral content that is
       | clearly an older person's Facebook post which was intended for
       | only friends but got pushed to the public feed of a Threads
       | account that may have been created by accident -- or default --
       | when Facebook blitz-scaled user numbers after launch. The posts
       | are always hundreds of people piling on about someone posting a
       | photo of their teenager in an embarrassing situation, with the
       | original poster probably blissfully unaware that they're getting
       | publicly dragged on Threads.
       | 
       | Check your parents' phones to see if they're publicly cross-
       | posting on accident!
        
       | neo_doom wrote:
       | The AI slop problem is not going away, unfortunately. Its
       | surprising that the social media companies don't see AI slop as
       | an existential threat to their platform? I guess its an indicator
       | of how low we've sunk that 'any' engagement is good engagement.
       | 
       | If it was up to me, I think AI content should be OPT IN. I must
       | choose to view AI content and not be force fed from the conveyor
       | of slop. This is where governments should legislate but we'll
       | never see this happen.
        
       | yfw wrote:
       | You guys are lucky most of mine are scam ads and ragebait
        
       | mortsnort wrote:
       | It's definitely cooked in the sense that the content is garbage,
       | but whenever was that not true?
       | 
       | I'm hoping they're cooked because they're putting all of their
       | eggs in the AGI basket instead of making useful AI products, and
       | they probably won't figure out AGI.
        
       | scaredreally wrote:
       | My main use case for FB is a group related to reviewing
       | restaurants in the area. I have no FB friends/connections. I use
       | messenger for my one friend who insists on using it. It is mostly
       | slop (and strangely I get posts from that same relationship
       | account), I scroll for about 5 minutes at a time before I realize
       | it is not worth looking at. And truthfully, that is what I want
       | from social media: a few minutes worth of distraction followed by
       | the feeling that I had just wasted my time and then on to
       | something more meaningful.
        
       | kmfrk wrote:
       | Also came across this today about how Meta is allotting 5% of ad
       | spend on AI testing for Gen AI. Which leads to unintentional Gen
       | AI promotions across Instagram and Facebook - mind you for
       | companies who _paid_ for the promotion.
       | 
       | https://bsky.app/profile/bexsaltsman.bsky.social/post/3me4yb...
        
       | maurycyz wrote:
       | Very predictable: If Facebook (or any other social media site)
       | showed you what you wanted to see --- stuff from your friends ---
       | you would be satisfied and leave.
       | 
       | ... but Facebook makes money off ads. They don't want you
       | leaving. They want you to stay online all day.
       | 
       | Instead, they show you brainrot: content interesting enough to
       | keep you on the site, but shallow enough that you are always
       | thirsty for more. However, making this content is still a lot of
       | work, and isn't what most people want to do: It takes a lot of
       | brainrot to keep you trapped 24/7.
       | 
       | Slop requires no effort, costs next to nothing, and fills the
       | "brainrot" niche perfectly. Facebook doesn't care that people are
       | posting bot content, because it's the perfect thing to make them
       | money.
        
       | morissette wrote:
       | See I don't scroll; not scrolling means not seeing the junk. I
       | just post and log off.
        
       | jbverschoor wrote:
       | Change to chronologic timeline, and you'll be cured for your
       | addiction superfast
        
       | nomilk wrote:
       | Fb deserves huge credit for their 'reels' algorithm. I follow a
       | bunch of science influencers, and their content frequently blows
       | my mind, and it's just one great vid after another.
       | 
       | Something I would love is 'social media dotfiles', so I could
       | export my list and share it with others. And vice-versa.
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | I declined when "facesmash", whatever, was invitation only, and
       | am only now considering how to set up an advertising presence
       | there, sortof, as I am overwhelmed with customers wanting things
       | made, so may just stay on page 7 of search, and just keep
       | answering the phone
        
       | SubiculumCode wrote:
       | Facebook IS just veiled ads to OF pron subscriptions.
        
       | jmward01 wrote:
       | I think the key here is engagement is based a lot on content
       | quantity, not quality. If your feed doesn't have a lot of natural
       | quantity associated with it then FB will find something to stuff
       | in there. The reality is that most people don't have a lot of
       | quantity on their feeds from their friends so that means they get
       | the AI slop to fill the void. At least that is my complete guess
       | on a root cause of (some) of the FB slop. I haven't logged in for
       | 6 months and I am now checking it 1-2 times a year because the
       | last few times I logged on it was pushing hate content at me.
        
       | progforlyfe wrote:
       | I'm definitely not a "fan" of Facebook or anything, though I do
       | use it and make a few interactions per day -- based on this blog
       | post I think the reason why his dashboard was full of trash &
       | slop was simply because he hasn't logged in for 8 years. If you
       | have no interactions in 8 years (and people you friend/follow are
       | also gone from the platform) they will resort to showing you this
       | crap.
       | 
       | I honestly do not care if Facebook is cooked or goes away -- but
       | I doubt the situation is that bad.
        
       | umvi wrote:
       | Could this also be related to Facebook killing messenger.com
       | (i.e. they are no longer running a charity so they need all users
       | to be on the main site now to consume the slop)?
        
       | agentifysh wrote:
       | One theory I have for the degradation of facebook and just
       | internet content/discussion/comments in general in the past 25
       | years have been the rapid change in the cultural demographic of
       | global internet users.
       | 
       | late 90s to early 2000s, only highly developed economies made up
       | most of the internet but as more emerging markets joined the
       | ranks, they ultimately surpassed those that reached peak internet
       | penetration much earlier.
       | 
       | A lot of these new dominant markets also happen to speak English
       | well enough and in far greater numbers and with it carries the
       | cultural/taste shifts.
       | 
       | Without naming specific countries, few social networks are
       | eclipsed by just a few countries that joined the internet much
       | later than the Western hemisphere (+non-English speaking
       | developed economies).
       | 
       | Cultural norms, values, habits permeate through the internet
       | simply put and the social media platforms are incentivized to
       | reflect it even if the $/country is not aligned but through the
       | sheer power of number and the increasingly unhealthy attachments
       | to what is largely just an ephemeral digital number in a database
       | inside air conditioned facility while the users complain about
       | the heat.
        
         | fjsifjasf wrote:
         | why don't you just name the countries lol?
        
         | willturman wrote:
         | I'll name a specific highly developed country in the western
         | hemisphere: The United States. There's no need to bend over
         | backward trying to blame some perceived degradation in quality
         | of discussion on international adoption of the internet.
         | 
         | According to the Barbara Bush Foundation for Family Literacy
         | [1] 130 million Americans -- 54% of adults between the ages of
         | 16 and 74 years old--lack proficiency in literacy, essentially
         | reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
         | 
         | [1]https://map.barbarabush.org
        
           | 0xDEAFBEAD wrote:
           | What's more, the United States has some of the highest
           | reading test scores in the world:
           | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/academic-
           | performance?subj...
           | 
           | This entire planet is full of idiots
        
       | nickvec wrote:
       | AI slop has me very worried for the future of the Internet at
       | large. I was toying around with the idea of a "new Internet" that
       | is devoid of AI generated content, but enforcing that would be
       | borderline impossible. Sadly, it seems like the genie is out of
       | the bottle; I feel like I see AI generated content everywhere I
       | go.
        
       | fer wrote:
       | I started laugh reacting at Russian propaganda and now all I get
       | is Russian propaganda, literally half of my posts are boomers,
       | shills and people from "non-aligned" countries falling for the
       | Russia stronk/based west evil/gay meme, and Russian embassies and
       | consulates non-stop DARVOing. But before that it was indeed a
       | constant flurry of thirst traps, ragebait, etc. I only keep using
       | it for a couple of well moderated groups.
        
         | TrackerFF wrote:
         | Yeah, this is a major FB trap.
         | 
         | If you interact in _any_ way with propaganda accounts, even
         | just look too long at the posts when they first randomly pop
         | up, they 've target locked you.
         | 
         | I'm a liberal dude. 90% of the political content I get on both
         | FB and Insta is far-right propaganda, sprinkled in with some
         | typical brocasters.
         | 
         | No amount of "Not interested" will make it go away, either.
        
       | justinhj wrote:
       | Hating on Facebook had always been cool. It's like "not even
       | owning a tv". Is it cooked though? I'm over 50 and it has a lot
       | of value for me. Marketplace, local happenings and keeping in
       | touch with family are all well served.
        
         | dj_gitmo wrote:
         | You are not responding to the content of the article. Did you
         | read it? The FB feed has changed dramatically since the
         | adoption of genAI and the experience of using it can be pretty
         | unpleasant. Do you disagree?
        
           | justinhj wrote:
           | The article is so far removed from personal experience it
           | sounds like another site entirely. Maybe this is what you see
           | if you log out for a long time and all Facebook knows about
           | you is you are a young man, hence the content.
        
       | zer0zzz wrote:
       | Why do people still complain about fb. FB has been this way for
       | years..
        
       | richardw wrote:
       | Every so often my YouTube logs out and I'm exposed to the view a
       | "random visitor" would see. Instantly visible because it's filled
       | with stupid content and sexual provocation.
       | 
       | I manage the shit out of FB and YouTube. You need to block a few
       | things so it stops testing a few segment ideas.
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | I agree with most of this, but complaining about Yoleendadong is
       | some "Old man yells at cloud" stuff.
       | 
       | My wife is a big fan, as she has a lot of funny content specific
       | to Asian cultures. Yes, she has some relationship stuff too. You
       | may not like her content, but she's got a few hundred thousand
       | subscribers on Youtube, and _17 million_ on TikTok.
        
         | taysix wrote:
         | Agreed, author missed the mark on that one! But makes sense if
         | you haven't seen her content before. Definitely wouldn't call
         | her content "slop".
        
         | thot_experiment wrote:
         | Yeah, she's great. I don't know if I would say she's _not_
         | slop, but it 's the sort of slop that serves as a foundational
         | block of the lexicon of memes I use to communicate with my
         | friends. I don't think this is new, imagemacros/memes are also
         | slop. Maybe I'm using the word wrong?
         | 
         | I guess to me it's kind of synonymous with "content" [mildly
         | derogatory] as to differentiate it from effortposting. She
         | primarily makes content, it's not always art but it doesn't
         | have to be.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | This is actually the scariest part of the article for me.
         | 
         | It's clear we've got to the point where at a glance it is hard
         | for those who are otherwise unaware to tell the difference
         | between AI slop and organic content.
         | 
         | If nerds on HN can't tell the difference between an AI slop
         | influencer and a fairly well-regarded human influencer... how
         | can we expect the rest of the public to tell the difference
         | when it comes to science, health, civics, politics, etc???
         | 
         | We're at the cusp of a distrust and misinformation cliff that
         | is going to be terrifying in magnitude.
        
           | hobom wrote:
           | The article didn't suggest that the video mentioned was AI
           | slop, it correctly recognised it as human generated.
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | Indeed. He thought it was not AI slop, but the kind of low-
             | effort slop ruining Facebook.
             | 
             | Your opinions may vary, but this is not one of those super
             | clickbaity social media personalities; people like her
             | because she's funny.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | I know he said it was not AI, but he but still described it
             | as "slop", lumping it in with the other examples. And said
             | it was a video "where a woman decides to intentionally
             | start a fight with her boyfriend" which isn't really an
             | accurate description. She's a well known comedian playing
             | an obviously exaggerated character that pokes fun at
             | relationship dynamics.
             | 
             | My point here isn't simply that "people can't differentiate
             | between AI and not AI" (although that is an issue for some)
             | but that the prevalence of AI slop lowers the trust of
             | _ALL_ content even when they know it isn't AI generated.
             | This author was so fed up with the content they were being
             | served that they were quick to dismiss other content along
             | with it at a cursory glance.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | I was about to point out two things:
         | 
         | 1. This bit you just pointed out. Facebook suggesting
         | Yoleendadong, that's not weird, she's wildly popular. Her
         | inclusion in this piece discredits OP as someone who basically
         | has no idea how social media works - which makes the article
         | less insightful, like asking David Attenborough to work the
         | play by play commentary of an NBA game.
         | 
         | 2. I don't think OP realizes how much he should not be
         | admitting that this is what his feed looks like.
         | 
         | Facebook/Instagram pretty much show you exactly what you want
         | to see. I deleted my Meta accounts about 6 months ago but when
         | I used it regularly before that I never saw thirst slop like
         | this.
         | 
         | I had a beautiful algorithm, a mix of mostly hilarious brain
         | rot and actual high effort content involving my interests.
         | 
         | OP is basically accidentally admitting that he's browsing this
         | kind of stuff in a browser with set Facebook cookies. That's
         | why you can't use Meta products without Facebook container.
         | 
         | OP is seeing AI titties because other websites that utilize
         | Facebook's analytics/marketing products are seeing OP search
         | for AI titties.
         | 
         | Finally, it is very easy to guide Meta algorithms into showing
         | you other stuff if you are seeing things you don't like. It
         | even has a button for you to tell it what you don't like.
        
       | throwaway876345 wrote:
       | My aunt is in her late 70s. She is a retired public school
       | teacher who taught for over 30 years. Over the years she spends a
       | majority of her leisure her time glued to Facebook on her iPad,
       | consuming whatever content is delivered by their algorithm. She's
       | become MAGA and will not tolerate any criticism of any moral
       | wrongdoing by the current president or members of his
       | administration. It's unbelievable the turn.
        
         | fluder wrote:
         | Firstly, people have the right to believe in aliens if they
         | want to. It is their legal right to support any political
         | movement, or are you a Nazi?
         | 
         | Secondly, what does Facebook have to do with it? It's not as if
         | there is no propaganda outside this social network.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | > And I don't just mean that nobody uses it anymore. Like, I knew
       | everyone under 50 had moved on
       | 
       | It will probably surprise a lot of people to learn that this
       | isn't true.
       | 
       | A higher percentage of 30-49 year olds report using Facebook than
       | in 50+ age groups
       | 
       | The bias toward younger generations is even higher when you
       | include Instagram
       | 
       | One source https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-
       | sheet/social-media...
       | 
       | I think many in the Hacker News bubble stopped using it and
       | assume everyone else did, too. It's not too surprising when you
       | read articles like this that paint a completely different picture
       | of the platform than what your friends and family are actually
       | seeing when they use it, as evidenced by the multitude of reports
       | in this comment section from people whose family and friends are
       | still getting value out of the site.
        
         | npilk wrote:
         | Interesting. I wonder if the phrasing as "do you ever use this
         | platform" leads to this result. I could definitely believe more
         | 30-49 year olds log in every so often for Marketplace etc., but
         | would expect DAU to be lower than 50+. But maybe that's just
         | more of the same bias you describe.
        
       | dchristian wrote:
       | This sounds like the feed of a single male. Facebook showing
       | sleazy content/ads to single guys predates AI by a lot. Try
       | removing your single relationship status from your profile and
       | see what changes.
        
       | fbistrash wrote:
       | Facebook is nothing but trash. Stopped using it way back in 2012
        
       | shirro wrote:
       | The algorithm has been given a job todo. First priority on any
       | platform is engagement and a well functioning, complete human
       | being is not going to be engaged by rage bait and hate. They are
       | rare, precious jewels. The shit gets dumped on people who are
       | lonely, have a grudge, feel left out. It is relentless and
       | escalates until their brains cook. Algorithmic social media is a
       | massive social harm. The people who are in deep likely need years
       | of deprogramming and therapy to recover which they will never
       | get.
       | 
       | These platforms need to be shut down and people with a conscience
       | need to stop using them, regardless of their own positive
       | experiences, to deny them the power of network effects and their
       | impact on the vulnerable.
        
         | flir wrote:
         | My wife was complaining about far right knuckle draggers
         | turning up in her feed. I assume the algorithm was shovelling
         | more of them at her because she was rubbernecking. I told her
         | to try a "block every time" approach. It took about two weeks
         | until her feed was (mostly) free of them but it still throws
         | one at her now and again.
         | 
         | I offer this as a data point about how hard it is to turn a
         | polluted feed around. But I'm now wondering if "feed cleaning"
         | is a service that could be automated, via LLM.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | I mainly want to clean other people's feeds. There are an
           | enormous amount of people that I need to undergo an algorithm
           | detox.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | Yeah, there's always someone saying "Just delete your
             | Facebook account" as if that solves the underlying
             | "Facebook is actively encouraging divisiveness" problem.
        
             | AuryGlenz wrote:
             | My mother-in-laws Facebook feed is full of fake news - from
             | the left, politically. My own mom doesn't have a Facebook,
             | but she still manages to balance out the universe with fake
             | news from the right on her YouTube feed.
             | 
             | The internet is a mistake for a lot of people and I don't
             | think we can fix that.
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | How can we complain that everyone is siloed and no one talks
           | to each other and complian that their feed is full of ideas
           | outside of the silo.
        
             | flir wrote:
             | Do you think you should have full control over the web
             | browser on the computer you own?
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not
               | they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
               | 
               | Having the right to choose what you see doesn't mean you
               | should choose to build yourself an ideological bubble.
        
               | flir wrote:
               | I avoid hateful people and pub bores in real life, too.
               | 
               | If you use the web without an ad blocker, more power to
               | you, I guess.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | Assuming that everyone in the other tribe is "hateful
               | people and pub bores" is kind of the problem.
        
             | UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote:
             | What next? The intellectual dark web? I think we can have a
             | free market of ideas or whatever you're fetishising without
             | it meaning that I can't sit on the couch and open an app to
             | see some family photos without it being intermingled with
             | some loser saying that trans people should be hanged on the
             | street.
             | 
             | And you know for a fact that I am not exaggerating. This is
             | where the current political discourse is at.
             | 
             | Can I please have the freedom to do that without the
             | lecture?
        
               | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
               | Do you really need political commentary in your family
               | photos?
               | 
               | (Apparently the answer is "yes", but the commentary must
               | be of the partisan approved kind.)
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | Your family photos should be on the Photos app and you'd
               | have no problems.
        
               | cruffle_duffle wrote:
               | That sort of rage bait is literally targeted to rile up
               | people sitting on the opposite side of the kind of people
               | watching that other media site that rhymes with socks.
               | It's all fake bullshit algorithmically optimized to
               | divide.
               | 
               | Everybody thinks their tribe is immune to this sort of
               | stuff but it isn't. It's all the same nonsense packaged
               | for different echo chambers.
               | 
               | At the end of the day, everybody is human. It isn't us vs
               | them, it's just us.
        
             | garte wrote:
             | what the poster mentioned did not sound like a balanced
             | exchange of ideas was about to happen...
        
             | harvey9 wrote:
             | I want Facebook to be like the current top post on here: my
             | family and friends social stuff. I can come to hn to get
             | out of my silo.
        
               | flir wrote:
               | My wife uses the app, hence the "consistently block the
               | assholes" approach. But if you're willing to stick to the
               | website I can actually offer you this. Write a browser
               | plugin that redirects you to "/?filter=all&sk=h_chr"
               | every time you land on "/". That's what I use for myself.
        
             | fatherwavelet wrote:
             | The worst to me is the way people dehumanize other people
             | who don't agree with them.
             | 
             | The other side politically doesn't just have different
             | views, they are barely human knuckle draggers. Basically
             | neanderthals, so who cares if they go extinct.
        
               | duskdozer wrote:
               | "don't agree with them" is carrying a lot of weight here,
               | isn't it?
        
               | flir wrote:
               | It's a month-old account.
        
               | cruffle_duffle wrote:
               | It's HN. People create new accounts here all the time to
               | protect their anonymity.
        
               | mlrtime wrote:
               | The other side sees you the same way, congrats on being
               | enlightened.
        
           | DeathArrow wrote:
           | I think the feeds depends on the posts you read, even
           | accidentally.
           | 
           | My feed is free from extreme left content but I didn't have
           | to block anything. Simply by not reading that kind of
           | content, the algorithm knows I am not interested.
        
             | flir wrote:
             | Yes, hence my comment about "rubbernecking". If you tend to
             | slow down for car crashes, the algorithm shows you more car
             | crashes. It amplifies our worst instincts.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | That effect also applies when you try to block car
               | crashes. That happened to me years ago with the same
               | genre of videos. Like car crashes and people falling and
               | hurting themself a little bit.
        
           | jjav wrote:
           | > My wife was complaining about far right knuckle draggers
           | turning up in her feed.
           | 
           | This is what is so difficult in facebook vs. HN. Here if
           | people post angry insulting rants, it gets collectively
           | downvoted to oblivion. That is effective.
           | 
           | On facebook there is no equivalent. All I can do is block an
           | individual, but I personally have to do it for every
           | offensive person, which is for practical purposes impossible.
           | Facebooks needs a downvote button and an option to hide any
           | comments which have N downvotes.
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | "I'm not interested" and "Don't show posts from this
             | person" is the dowvote button for the algorithm. If you use
             | those functions liberally your feed gets pretty clean and
             | aligned.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Except here on HN, other people take care of the
               | downvoting for me. I only have to reach for the downvote
               | button a few times a year.
               | 
               | Whereas on Facebook style algorithmic feeds, you have to
               | "use those functions liberally" and the result is only
               | "pretty" clean.
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | HN model works, people do downvote for you, if you are
               | just like everybody else here. You indicate that by
               | visiting HN.
               | 
               | In more universal platform such as Facebook you need to
               | indicate who you are by subscribing to specific groups or
               | downvoting some of the content yourself. Just visiting.
               | Facebook is not enoug. Once you signal who you are you
               | also benefit from other people just like you downvoting
               | content you wouldn't like, for you.
        
               | flir wrote:
               | I used to belong to a FB nostalgia group that was being
               | relentlessly farmed by Indonesian accounts. The group
               | members (and even the admins) weren't sophisticated
               | enough to spot what was happening. They were absolutely
               | engaging with the spam. They love AI colorizations too.
               | 
               | I don't trust "facebook users" as a group to provide a
               | signal I consider useful.
        
           | mlrtime wrote:
           | I did this on reddit to try and get a useful /r/all and it
           | ended up being mostly cats. I never look or vote on cat
           | pictures but by just removing political serial posters, thats
           | what I got.
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | They offer controls in the three-dots menu that say:
           | 
           | + Interested Show more this like this in my feed
           | 
           | and
           | 
           | - Not Interested Show less things like this in my feed
           | 
           | They even allow clicking those repeatedly on the same post.
        
         | javascriptfan69 wrote:
         | I genuinely think we will look back at the algorithmic content
         | feed as being on par with leaded gasoline or cigarettes in
         | terms of societal harm.
         | 
         | Maybe worse since it is engineered to be as addictive as
         | possible down to an individual level.
         | 
         | Then again maybe I'm being too optimistic that it will be fixed
         | before it destroys us.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | If anything the algorithmic dopamine drip is just getting
           | started. We haven't even entered the era of intensely
           | personalized ai-driven individual influence campaigns. The
           | billboard is just a billboard right now, but it won't be long
           | before the billboard knows the most effective way to
           | emotionally influence you and executes it perfectly. The
           | algorithm is mostly still in your phone.
           | 
           | That's not where it stops.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | I think it's worse, cigarettes never threatened democracy
           | 
           | the solution is real easy, section 230 should not apply if
           | there's an recommendation algorithm involved
           | 
           | treat the company as a traditional publisher
           | 
           | because they are, they're editorialising by selecting the
           | content
           | 
           | vs, say, the old style facebook wall (a raw feed from user's
           | friends), which should qualify for section 230
        
             | jballanc wrote:
             | The problem with this is that section 230 was specifically
             | created to _promote_ editorializing. Before section 230,
             | online platforms were loath to engage in _any_ moderation
             | because they feared that a hint of moderation would jump
             | them over into the realm of  "publisher" where they could
             | be held liable for the veracity of the content they
             | published and, given the choice between no moderation at
             | all or full editorial responsibility, many of the early
             | internet platforms would have chosen no moderation (as full
             | editorial responsibility would have been cost prohibitive).
             | 
             | In other words, that filter that keeps Nazis, child
             | predators, doxing, etc. off your favorite platform only
             | exists because of section 230.
             | 
             | Now, one could argue that the biggest platforms (Meta,
             | Youtube, etc.) can, at this point, afford the cost of full
             | editorial responsibility, but repealing section 230 under
             | this logic only serves to put up a barrier to entry to any
             | smaller competitor that might dislodge these platforms from
             | their high, and lucrative, perch. I used to believe that
             | the better fix would be to amend section 230 to shield
             | filtering/removal, but not selective promotion, but TikTok
             | has shown (rather cleverly) that selective
             | filtering/removal can be just as effective as selective
             | promotion of content.
        
               | arcticfox wrote:
               | Even if they can't afford it... Too bad for them?
               | 
               | I am kind of rooting for the AI slop because the status
               | quo is horrific, maybe the AI slop cancer will put social
               | media out of its misery.
        
               | horacemorace wrote:
               | Sweet best back-and-forth All-sides on this topic. It's
               | very complex. On what rules ought we regulate, if any?
               | Probably _some_ _somehow_.
        
               | intended wrote:
               | Platforms routinely underinvest in trust and safety.
               | 
               | T&S is markedly more capable in the dominant languages
               | (English is ahead by far).
               | 
               | Platforms make absurd margins when compared to any other
               | category of enterprise known to man.
               | 
               | They operate at scales where a 0.001% error rate is still
               | far beyond human capability to manually review.
               | 
               | Customer support remains a cost center.
               | 
               | Firms should be profitable and have a job to do.
               | 
               | We do not owe them that job. Firms are vehicles to find
               | the best strategies and tactics given societal resources
               | and goals.
               | 
               | If rules to address harms result in current business
               | models becoming unviable, then this is not a defense of
               | the current business model.
               | 
               | Currently we are socializing costs and privatizing
               | profit.
               | 
               | Having more customer support, more transparency, and more
               | moderation will be a cost of doing business.
               | 
               | Our societies have more historical experience thinking
               | about government capture than flooding the zone style
               | private capture of speech.
               | 
               | America developed the FDA and every country has rules on
               | how hygiene should be maintained in food.
               | 
               | People still can start small, and then create medium or
               | large businesses. Regulation is framed for the size of
               | the org.
               | 
               | Many firms fail - but failure and recreation are natural
               | parts of the business cycle.
        
               | bjt wrote:
               | Moderation and recommendation are not the same thing.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | When you have a feed with a million posts in it, they
               | are. There is no practical difference between removing
               | something and putting it on page 5000 where no one will
               | ever see it, or from the other side, moderating away
               | everything you wouldn't recommend.
               | 
               | Likewise, if you have a feed at all, it has to be in
               | _some_ order. Should it show everyone 's posts or only
               | people you follow? Should it show posts by popularity or
               | something else? Is "popularity" global, regional, only
               | among people you follow, or using some statistics based
               | on things you yourself have previously liked?
               | 
               | There is no intrinsic default. Everything is a choice.
        
               | phicoh wrote:
               | I remember back in the day when Google+ was just
               | launched. And it had promoted content. Content not from
               | my 'circles' but random other content. I walked out and
               | never looked back.
               | 
               | Of course, Facebook started doing the same.
               | 
               | The thing is, anything from people not explicitly
               | subscribed to should be considered advertorial and the
               | platform should be responsible for all of that content.
        
               | reverius42 wrote:
               | I think maybe you shouldn't have a feed with a million
               | posts in it? Like how many friends do you have? And how
               | often do they post?
        
               | crabmusket wrote:
               | "We have a million pieces of content to show you, but are
               | not allowed to editorialize" sounds like a constraint
               | that might just spark some interesting UI innovations.
               | 
               | Not being allowed to use the "feed" pattern to shovel
               | content into users' willing gullets based on maximum
               | predicted engagement is the kind of friction that might
               | result in healthier patterns of engagement.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | While I agree "There is no intrinsic default. Everything
               | is a choice." and "There is no practical difference
               | between removing something and putting it on page 5000"
               | and similar (see my own recent comments on censorship vs.
               | propaganda):
               | 
               | > Should it show everyone's posts or only people you
               | follow?
               | 
               | Only people (well, accounts) you follow, obviously.
               | 
               | That's what I always thought "following" is * _for_ *,
               | until it became clear that the people running the
               | algorithms had different ideas because they collectively
               | decided both that I must surely want to see other content
               | I didn't ask for _and also_ not see the content I did ask
               | for.
               | 
               | > Should it show posts by popularity or something else?
               | Is "popularity" global, regional, only among people you
               | follow, or using some statistics based on things you
               | yourself have previously liked?
               | 
               | If they want to supply a feed of "Trending in your area",
               | IMO that would be fine, _if you ask for it_. Choice (user
               | choice) is key.
        
               | davecrawley wrote:
               | Early days facebook was simple: 1) You saw posts from all
               | people you were connected to on the platform. 2) In the
               | reverse order they were posted.
               | 
               | I can tell you it was a real p**r when they decided to do
               | an algorithmic recommendation engine - as the experience
               | became way worse. Before I could follow what my buddies
               | were doing, as soon as they made this change the feed
               | became garbage.
        
               | jimbokun wrote:
               | The way modern social media platforms are designed, yes
               | they are.
        
               | safety1st wrote:
               | This is the first time I've ever heard somebody claim
               | that section 230 exists to deter child predators.
               | 
               | That argument is of course nonsense. If the platform is
               | aware of apparent violations including enticement,
               | grooming etc. they are obligated to report this under
               | federal statute, specifically 18 USC 2258A. Now if you
               | think that statute doesn't go far enough then the right
               | thing to do is amend it, or more broadly, establish
               | stronger obligations on platforms to report evidence of
               | criminal behavior to the authorities. Either way Section
               | 230 is not needed for this purpose and deterring crime is
               | not a justification for how it currently exists.
               | 
               | The final proof of how nonsensical this argument is, is
               | that even if the intent you claim was true, it failed.
               | Facebook and Instagram are the largest platforms for
               | groomers online. Nazi and white supremacy content are
               | everywhere on these websites as well. So clearly Section
               | 230 didn't work for this purpose. Zuck was happy to open
               | the Nazi floodgates on his platforms the moment a
               | conservative President got elected. That was all it took.
               | 
               | The actual problem is that Meta is a lawless criminal
               | entity. The mergers which created the modern Meta should
               | have been blocked in the first place. When they weren't,
               | Zuck figured he could go ahead and open the floodgates
               | and become the largest enabler of CSAM, smut and fraud on
               | earth. He was right. The United States government has
               | become weak. It doesn't protect its people. It allows
               | criminal perverts like the board of Meta and the rest of
               | the Epstein class to prey on its people.
        
               | gzread wrote:
               | Section 230 being repealed doesn't mean that any
               | moderation will be treated as publication. The ambient
               | assumptions have changed a lot in the past 30 years. Now
               | nobody would think that removing spam makes you liable as
               | a publisher.
               | 
               | Algorithmic feeds are, prima facie, not moderation, not
               | user-created content and do not fall under the purview of
               | section 230.
               | 
               | We all know why they're really doing it, though.
        
             | jcgrillo wrote:
             | > As interpreted by some courts, this language preserves
             | immunity for some editorial changes to third-party content
             | but does not allow a service provider to "materially
             | contribute" to the unlawful information underlying a legal
             | claim. Under the material contribution test, a provider
             | loses immunity if it is responsible for what makes the
             | displayed content illegal.[1]
             | 
             | I'm not a lawyer, but idk that seems pretty clear cut. If
             | you, the provider, run some program which does illegal shit
             | then 230 don't cover your ass.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12584
        
             | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
             | If your tree is so weak that a single breeze can knock it
             | off, why blame the wind? Disclaimer: I hate social media of
             | all kinds, it's just that you're missing the forest.
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | The force of social media these past 20 years has been
               | massive. We're talking radical change to the structure of
               | information flow in society. That's not just a small
               | breeze.
        
               | blharr wrote:
               | The breeze is more like a 2 ton harvester expertly
               | engineered to knock your tree down.
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | Why change section 230? You can just make personalized
             | algorithmic feeds optimized for engagement illegal instead,
             | couldn't you? What advantage does it have to mess with 230,
             | wouldn't the result be the same in practice?
        
               | danielheath wrote:
               | 230 is an obvious place to say "if you decide something
               | is relevant to the user (based on criteria they have not
               | explicitly expressed to you), then you are a publisher of
               | that material and are therefore not a protected carriage
               | service.
        
               | carefulfungi wrote:
               | The solution must be a social one: we must culturally
               | shun algorithmic social media, scold its proponents, and
               | help the addicted.
               | 
               | We aren't going to be able to turn off the AI content
               | spigot or write laws that control media format and
               | content and withstand (in the US) 1st amendment review.
               | But we can change the cultural perception.
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | We aren't going to stop algorithmic social media through
               | sheer force of public will without government
               | involvement.
               | 
               | Social communities aren't nimble. There a ton of inertia
               | in a social media platform. People have their whole
               | network, all their friends, on the platform; and all
               | friends have their friends on the platform; etc. So in
               | order to switch from one platform to another, you need
               | everyone to switch at the same time, which is _extremely
               | hard_.
               | 
               | Facebook started out pretty nice. You saw what your
               | friends posted and what pages you follow posted, in
               | chronological order. It had privacy issues, but it worked
               | more or less how we'd want to, with no algorithmic
               | timeline. But they moved towards being more and more
               | algorithmic over time. Luckily, Facebook was bad enough
               | that it has gotten way less popular, but that has taken
               | _a long time_.
               | 
               | Twitter is the same. It started out being the social
               | media platform we want: you saw what your followers
               | posted or boosted, chronologically. No algorithmic feed.
               | But look where it is now. Thankfully, Musk's involvement
               | has made plenty of people leave, but there were a lot of
               | years where everyone, regardless of political leaning,
               | were on Twitter with an algorithmic timeline. Even though
               | a lot of people complained about the algorithmic timeline
               | when it was introduced, they stayed on Twitter because
               | that's where everyone they knew were.
               | 
               | YouTube too. For a long time, the only thing you saw on
               | YouTube was what people you've subscribed to posted. It
               | built up a huge community and became the de facto video
               | sharing platform as a nice non-algorithmic site, _and
               | then_ they turned the key and went all in on replacing
               | the subscription feed with the algorithmic feed. Now they
               | 've even adopted short-form video where you aren't even
               | supposed to pick which video you wanna watch, you're just
               | supposed to scroll. And replacing YouTube is _hard_ due
               | to its momentum.
               | 
               | So even if everyone agrees that algorithmic feeds are
               | terrible and move to a non-algorithmic platform over the
               | next few decades, what do you propose we do when that new
               | platform inevitably shifts towards being an algorithmic
               | platform? Do we start a new multi-decade long transition
               | to yet another platform?
        
               | bigfudge wrote:
               | It's really simple in the US: stop granting exemptions
               | for the harm the content causes. Social media _is_
               | publishing. Expecting people to 'eat their vegetables'
               | when only fast food is on offer is realistic, and flies
               | in the face of all we know about the environmental
               | drivers of public health.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | Just because something is potentially harmful doesn't
               | mean it should be illegal or otherwise prohibited.
        
             | carefulfungi wrote:
             | > cigarettes never threatened democracy
             | 
             | Off topic, but I bet a book on tobacco cultivation/history
             | would be fascinating. Tobacco cultivation relied on the
             | slave labor of millions and the global tobacco market
             | influenced Jefferson and other American revolutionaries
             | (who were seeing their wealth threatened). I've also read
             | that Spain treated sharing seeds as punishable by death?
             | The rare contrast that makes Monsanto look enlightened!
        
               | roryirvine wrote:
               | Mm, definitely. I think it's probably the cash crop that
               | has historically been the most intertwined with politics,
               | even more so than sugar.
               | 
               | Central America, the Balkans, the Levant. The Iroquois
               | and Algonquians. Cuba. The Medicis and the Stuarts. And,
               | as you say, revolutionary Virginia and Maryland. Lots of
               | potential there for a grand narrative covering 600 years
               | or more!
               | 
               | (And, to gp: yes, it absolutely _did_ threaten
               | governments, empires, and entire political systems!)
        
               | throwaway27448 wrote:
               | Distinguishing between the economic and politics seems
               | impossible--hence the term "political economy". Splitting
               | the two was a bad decision.
        
               | roryirvine wrote:
               | Yeah, isn't it only a relatively recent split - mid 20th
               | century, I think?
               | 
               | Before that, the term "economy" was only used as a
               | synonym for thrift or a system of management or control
               | (and "economist" tended to mean someone who wanted to
               | reduce spending or increase restrictions on something).
        
               | cess11 wrote:
               | Arguably Marx is the most important historical scientist
               | when it comes to political economy. The methodology
               | pioneered by him has been extremely influential.
               | 
               | Reactionary liberalism, e.g. neoliberalism, Austrian
               | school, that kind of thing, discards the 'mess' of
               | interdisciplinary approaches and seek a return of a
               | protestant worldview, riffing off of their use of the New
               | Testament verses about "render unto Caesar". This puts
               | them in harsh ideological conflict with the political
               | economists and elevates their 'theology' above the work
               | of previous scientists.
               | 
               | Historically some trace political economy to ibn Khaldun,
               | but in the Occident it's Ricardo, Mill, Marx and so on
               | that create a (to us) recognisable science out of it.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | Marx wasn't a scientist. He didn't follow the scientific
               | method. He was a lazy pseudo-intellectual who cherry-
               | picked particular pieces of history to support his
               | preferred narrative.
        
               | cess11 wrote:
               | Clearly you are unfamiliar with his work and influence.
               | 
               | You could easily fix that with a bit of effort.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | Actually I've read it and am quite familiar. It's true
               | that he was influential but all of his work was shoddy
               | and poorly reasoned. Only morons are impressed by it.
        
               | ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote:
               | This is a reply to nradov.
               | 
               | > He didn't follow the scientific method.
               | 
               | Science is not the only legitimate form of gaining
               | knowledge. What you write applies to every philosopher.
               | And economics is not generally known for being the most
               | scientific of all sciences. This is all the more true of
               | neoclassical economists, who are probably closer to your
               | worldview if Marx triggers such a knee-jerk reaction in
               | you. Whether you like it or not, Marx was a gifted
               | systematic and analytical thinker. Even his ideological
               | opponents admit this. At least if they can hold a candle
               | to him intellectually...
        
               | djkivi wrote:
               | Something like The Prize for the tobacco industry could
               | be very interesting!
        
             | hiddencost wrote:
             | They fought a civil war over the labor required to produce
             | tobacco.
        
               | dudeinjapan wrote:
               | > cigarettes never threatened democracy
               | 
               | "Democracy" itself was not at stake in the American Civil
               | War because both sides practiced it. The Confederacy
               | was/would have been a democracy analogous to ancient
               | Athens--one where slaves (and women) were excluded from
               | political participation. The vast majority of Confederate
               | politicians, including Jefferson Davis, came from the
               | "Democratic Party"--which, true to its name, championed
               | enfranchisement for the "common (white) man" as opposed
               | to control by elites.
               | 
               | Perhaps a better example is the "Tobacco War" of 1780 in
               | the American Revolution, where Cornwallis and Benedict
               | Arnold destroyed massive quantities of cured tobacco to
               | try to cripple the war financing of the colonies.
               | 
               | Control of tobacco in Latin/South America since the 1700s
               | (Spain's second-largest source of imperial revenue after
               | precious metals) also had a directly stifling effect on
               | democratic self-governance.
        
               | NeutralCrane wrote:
               | I think the point is a significant number of human beings
               | were not participating in democracy at the time because
               | their forced labor was critical to propping up the
               | tobacco (and other) industries.
               | 
               | It's hard to claim it's actually democracy when it only
               | exists after stripping the rights from a large section of
               | people who would disagree with you, if they had the power
               | to do so.
        
             | quotemstr wrote:
             | Social media cannot "threaten democracy". Democracy means
             | that we transfer power to those who get the most votes.
             | 
             | There's nothing more anti-democratic than deciding that
             | some votes don't count because the people casting them
             | heard words you didn't like.
             | 
             | The kind of person to whom the concept of feed ranking
             | threatening democracy is even a logical thought believes
             | the role of the public is to rubber stamp policies a small
             | group decides are best. If the public hears unapproved
             | words, it might have unapproved thoughts, vote for
             | unapproved parties, and set unapproved policy. Can't have
             | that.
        
               | xorcist wrote:
               | That trivial definition sees limited use in the real
               | world. Few countries that are popularly considered
               | democratic have direct democracy. Most weigh votes
               | geographically or use some sort of representative model.
               | 
               | Most established definitions of democracy goes something
               | like, heavily simplified:
               | 
               | 1. Free media
               | 
               | 2. Independent judicial system
               | 
               | 3. Peaceful system for the transfer of power
               | 
               | The most popular model for implementing (3) is free and
               | open elections, which has yielded pretty good results in
               | the past century where it has been practiced.
               | 
               | Considering social media pretty much _is_ media for most,
               | it is a heavily concentrated power, and if there can any
               | suspicions of being in cahoots with established political
               | power and thus non-free, surely that is a threat to
               | democracy almost by definition.
               | 
               | Let's be real here: It has been conclusively shown again
               | and again that social media _does_ influence elections.
               | That much should be obvious without too much in the way
               | of academic rigor.
        
               | quotemstr wrote:
               | Of course social media influences elections. Direct or
               | indirect, the principle of democracy is the same: the
               | electorate hears a diversity of perspectives and votes
               | according to the ones found most convincing.
               | 
               | How can you say you believe in democracy when you want to
               | control what people hear so they don't vote the wrong
               | way? In a democracy there is no such thing as voting the
               | wrong way.
               | 
               | Who are you to decide which perspectives get heard? You
               | can object to algorithmic feed ranking only because it
               | might make people vote wrong --- but as we established,
               | the concept of "voting wrong" in a legitimate democracy
               | doesn't even type check. In a legitimate democracy, it's
               | the voting that decides what's right and wrong!
        
             | cruffle_duffle wrote:
             | > never threatened democracy
             | 
             | The beautiful part is how non-partisan this is. It cooks
             | all minds regardless of tribe.
        
             | ZeroGravitas wrote:
             | You can draw a fairly clear line from the corporate
             | response to cigarettes being regulated through to the
             | strategy for climate change and social media/crypto etc.
             | 
             | The Republicans are basically a coalition of corporate
             | interests that want to get you addicted to stuff that will
             | make you poor and unhealthy, and underling any collective
             | attempt to help.
             | 
             | The previous vice-president claimed cigarettes don't give
             | you cancer and the current president thinks wind turbine
             | and the health problems caused by asbestos are both hoaxes.
             | This is not a coincidence.
             | 
             | The two big times the Supreme Court flexed their powers
             | were to shut down cigarette regulation by the FDA and
             | Obama's Clean Power plan. Again, not a coincidence.
        
               | alsetmusic wrote:
               | That's because we / our (USA) country is owned. As Carlin
               | said, "It's a big club. And you ain't in it."[0]
               | 
               | But what isn't properly addressed when people link to
               | this is that the real issue he's discussing is our
               | failing educational system. It's not a coincidence that
               | the Right attacks public schools and the orange man
               | appointed a wrestling lady to dismantle the dept of
               | education.[1]
               | 
               | 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNXHSMmaq_s
               | 
               | 1. The Trump Administration Plot to Destroy Public
               | Education - https://prospect.org/2026/01/13/trump-
               | mcmahon-department-edu...
               | 
               | Aside: I was in the audience for this show (his last TV
               | special). Didn't know it'd be shot for TV. Kind of
               | sucked, actually, cause they had lights on the audience
               | for the cameras and one was right in my eyes. Anyway, a
               | toast to George Carlin who was ahead of his time and
               | would hate how right he's been.
        
           | timacles wrote:
           | Yeah might not ever get fixed. It is the perfect tool for
           | mass influence and surveillance of the people. The powers
           | that he would never let it go
        
             | PantaloonFlames wrote:
             | It's literally why Leon bought Twitter. A Mass influence
             | vehicle.
        
           | aix1 wrote:
           | > we will look back at the algorithmic content feed as being
           | on par with leaded gasoline or cigarettes in terms of
           | societal harm
           | 
           | I agree 100%.
           | 
           | However, I think the core issue is not the use of an
           | algorithm to recommend or even to show stuff.
           | 
           | I think the issue is that the algorithm is optimized for the
           | interests of a platform (max engagement => max ad revenue)
           | and not for the interests of a user (happiness, delight,
           | however you want to frame it).
           | 
           | And there's way too much of this, everywhere.
        
             | randomNumber7 wrote:
             | We live in a society that only values money so why should
             | anyone optimise for s.th. else?
        
           | alfiedotwtf wrote:
           | It's crazy (but true) to think that by slowly manipulating
           | someone's feed, Zuck and Musk could convert people's
           | religions, political leanings, personal values, etc with
           | little work. In fact, I would be surprised if there was NOT
           | some part of Facebook and Twitter's admin or support page
           | where a user's "preferences" could be modified i.e "over the
           | next 8 months, convert the user to a staunch evangelical
           | Christian" etc
        
             | cluckindan wrote:
             | FB was always conversion as a service
        
         | decimalenough wrote:
         | > _The shit gets dumped on people who are lonely, have a
         | grudge, feel left out._
         | 
         | No, it gets dumped on pretty much everybody.
         | 
         | My Insta consists of travel and food pictures, and the people I
         | follow are friends IRL and a very few travel/food influencers.
         | So my feed consists of friends, travel/food content, dirty
         | jokes thanks to my buddy who keeps sending them, and an ever
         | increasing proportion of ads.
         | 
         | But both my "suggested reels" and the search view are _exactly_
         | what the OP was complaining about: a non-stop parade of thirst
         | traps by  "content creators" pitching their OnlyFans accounts.
        
           | foxglacier wrote:
           | I mostly use Facebook by clicking on email notifications
           | which are always real posts or comments by my real life
           | friends. Some of them are a bit political but I just ignore
           | those.
           | 
           | I just tried scrolling down the homepage and mine doesn't
           | have any extreme political crap. However, it does have local
           | political crap about the popular local issues (mostly bike
           | lanes). Most of it is just harmless stuff like dashcam videos
           | of bad local drivers, historic photos of my city, local
           | issues like city infrastructure problems, curiosities like
           | rare animals or space photos, and ads - tons and tons of ads.
           | 
           | I think it probably depends what you've engaged with indeed.
        
           | jamincan wrote:
           | I find Facebook and Instagram are both completely polluted by
           | that type of content. Facebook used to be trying to feed me
           | right-wing rage bait and I think actively blocking finally
           | cleared my feed of most of it and now it's all thirst-trap
           | stuff. At least it's figured out I'm gay compared to
           | Instagram.
        
             | cruffle_duffle wrote:
             | "right-wing rage bait"
             | 
             | Assuming you mean crap like "school book bans", climate
             | change denialism, or some dude coal rolling... You realize
             | that is actually bait targeted at you specifically right?
             | It wouldn't work as bait if it was shit you agreed with!
             | It's actually left-wing rage bait!
             | 
             | If you were immersed in the "right wing echo chamber" your
             | flavor of rage bait would be about a school introducing a
             | neutral bathroom policy, or some college student struggling
             | to define what a woman is. Every Christmas you'd see
             | articles about cities banning Christmas lights in town hall
             | and Starbucks no longer using Christmas themed cups. It's
             | all fucking made up nonsense. No real human acts the way
             | these algorithms portray us.
             | 
             | Honestly even 'right-wing' and 'left-wing' are part of the
             | trick. Real people don't exist on a binary axis. We're all
             | a weird mess of values and experiences that don't fit
             | neatly into two boxes. But the algorithm needs two teams,
             | because you can't sell outrage without an enemy.
             | 
             | The first step to detox is seeing everyone as human not as
             | a contrived label.
        
               | jamincan wrote:
               | I actually mean the second kind of stuff - I don't know
               | why it fed it to me except that the family connections I
               | have on social media are all on FB and they tend to lean
               | more conservative/evangelical.
        
           | socalgal2 wrote:
           | Does FB have a "following only" option like Instagram?
           | 
           | If it did I'd use it more. As it is, I check FB once a week-
           | ish, see a few too many suggested posts and leave.
        
         | rolodexter2023 wrote:
         | escalation is often profitable before it is visibly
         | catastrophic
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | Should I stop using my phone because some people do crime
         | through the phone so I'm protecting children by not calling
         | anyone?
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | >These platforms need to be shut down and people with a
         | conscience need to stop using them, regardless of their own
         | positive experiences, to deny them the power of network effects
         | and their impact on the vulnerable.
         | 
         | In places where media is very biased to one political idea,
         | online platforms like Facebook can be a breath of fresh air,
         | people can share their ideas, voice their thoughts and concerns
         | and express their opinions.
         | 
         | This is invaluable for democracy and it does have effect in the
         | real life as it shapes the elections.
         | 
         | People don't depend just on the media anymore to have an
         | informed opinion and the propaganda is much less effective.
        
           | dzikimarian wrote:
           | They could be, but they aren't. When they catch your
           | political bias, they will push your flavor of propaganda to
           | you as heavily as classical media.
        
         | elevatortrim wrote:
         | It is sad to think some of the world's smartest brains
         | developed these incredibly successful algorithms.
         | 
         | They are equally capable of developing something to lift people
         | up.
        
         | shaky-carrousel wrote:
         | > The shit gets dumped on people who are lonely, have a grudge,
         | feel left out.
         | 
         | Like teenagers.
         | 
         | > The people who are in deep likely need years of deprogramming
         | and therapy to recover which they will never get.
         | 
         | Like a cult. Current social media is like a cult that preys on
         | teenagers. No wonder they want to ban it for young people.
         | American government trying to forcefully spread its cult via
         | the freedom.gov proxy is the vile cherry on top.
         | 
         | This is a quantitative change for Trump. He went from preying
         | on a few kids to preying on all the kids in the world. He must
         | feel ecstatic.
        
         | LogicFailsMe wrote:
         | Facebook sucks but Reddit's algorithm is even worse. The only
         | positive thing I will say in favor of Reddit is you can turn
         | their algorithm off as Facebook has consistently denied its
         | users a chronological feed of their friends.
        
           | jamincan wrote:
           | How do other people use reddit? I'm subscribed to a bunch of
           | subreddits and that's the content I see. Reddit is honestly
           | one of the more positive parts of the web for me.
        
             | socalgal2 wrote:
             | which subreddits do you frequent? My experience of any
             | coding subreddits is lots of posturing, lots of closing, no
             | few actually useful answers or discussion
        
               | jamincan wrote:
               | My reddit feed is predominately my local community
               | subreddit and various hobbies/activities - mountain
               | biking and cycling stuff, outdoors stuff, geology,
               | swimming, some ttrpg stuff - and then interspersed with a
               | few more random things that I try to keep with more of a
               | positive tilt - todayilearned, bestof, EarthPorn - that
               | sort of thing.
               | 
               | I do have a few programming subreddits, rust, sveltekit,
               | and adventofcode, which mostly seem more newsy or avenues
               | to help or learn about developments in that area. /r/rust
               | does have an annoying tendency to get posts of some
               | person new to rust telling people who are presumably
               | already familiar with rust about what an amazing and
               | transformative language it is, but those are pretty easy
               | to identify and skip by.
        
         | doginasuit wrote:
         | I think it is a mistake to think about people as being helpless
         | consumers of the algorithm. The OP's mom no doubt makes some
         | intentional choices in her life that make a difference. It just
         | doesn't help that the algorithm will lean into whatever will
         | get the most engagement.
        
         | 0xDEAFBEAD wrote:
         | People will engage with and promote that stuff even without a
         | recommendation algorithm. Lots of subreddits are full of
         | ragebait if you look at the most-upvoted posts.
        
         | quantified wrote:
         | And yet the algorithm has spent the last 3 or more weeks
         | pumping MAGA, county and state Republican party, conservative
         | Christian pages. There's a hand on the dials of "the algorithm"
        
       | nvarsj wrote:
       | I barely use facebook.com but I don't have this issue at all. I
       | just checked - my news feed is filled with extended family posts,
       | posts in groups I'm in and related things. TFA looks completely
       | alien to me. I guess this is kind of an absurd local maxima you
       | get with algorithms for rarely used accounts.
       | 
       | (disclaimer: I work at Meta)
        
       | snowhale wrote:
       | logged in after years away and had basically the same experience.
       | the feed is just AI slop and engagement bait now, none of it from
       | people I actually followed.
        
       | Quitschquat wrote:
       | I'm there for the T'n'A too
        
       | r0m4n0 wrote:
       | I can't quite relate. Over the past few years I have been using
       | facebook more and more. I use it almost solely for Marketplace
       | and Groups. You can buy literally anything on marketplace for a
       | fraction of the price new. You can sell things on marketplace for
       | more than you bought it for from the store. It's actually quite
       | amazing.
       | 
       | Groups are also really great. I have a lot of hobbies and you can
       | join local groups where people trade stuff or just chat about
       | things related to the topic. I have met some really cool people
       | in real life from facebook groups. Into overlanding in your
       | region? There is a group for that. Into rare Trichocereus or
       | trading rare fig cuttings? There are groups for those. It feels
       | much more personal than reddit because it's connected to a
       | profile that actually has real information/photos associated with
       | it.
       | 
       | Occasionally I end up scrolling videos on fb which appear to just
       | be extensions of reels on Instagram. Doesn't appear to be any
       | different, literally crossover comments even. OP is probably
       | seeing the chum because facebook is going off of nothing.
       | 
       | Anyway, facebook is not cooked :)
        
       | rimeice wrote:
       | Yeh I think there's an issue with being off the platform for a
       | long time. Almost exactly same thing happened to me after not
       | logging in for about 10 years. The algorithm just doesn't know
       | what to do with you. But then I almost immediately go banned for
       | breaching community guidelines after doing nothing but scrolling.
       | So from my experience I can confirm, it's a total bin fire.
        
       | MaintenanceMode wrote:
       | If you're part of a particular subculture, like sailboat
       | cruising, nearly all of international sailboat cruising takes
       | place on Facebook. There are pages for every town, anchorage,
       | marina, etc that you will encounter. Often that is paired with a
       | WhatsApp group where people have conversations and coordinate
       | activities. When you sail from city X to city Y, you join that
       | Facebook group and you learn where to do laundry, where to get
       | groceries, etc. You stay on these groups and the whole community
       | interacts there for many years. There are other places this
       | happens but Facebook is the main source of this type of
       | information sharing.
        
         | ct0 wrote:
         | This is how I use it too. News feed is basically garbage, but
         | the groups and marketplace is worth keeping my freemium
         | subscription. I never heard of your use case, but I'm impressed
         | that the specific point A to B groups exist!
        
       | krick wrote:
       | Well, if it's true it's the first instance of good news I've
       | heard in a while. But as far as I've checked, all local hobby
       | groups still were defaulting to Facebook as the main (an often
       | only) source of updates, events and general coordination. At
       | least, it was a major source of friction for me until quite
       | recently, as I never joined that thing and could only participate
       | if somebody told me personally.
        
       | api wrote:
       | Mine is just bizarre. I logged in a few months ago just to peek
       | and it was AI generated conspiritainment brain rot about aliens
       | and the Illuminati and Nazi UFOs. I found it kind of hilarious
       | but also horrifying. Lots of fake archaeology pics, very
       | obviously AI.
       | 
       | Different people seem to get different forms of brain rot. Last
       | my wife checked it was political rage bait. My mom gets AI cat
       | video slop.
        
       | Cyclone_ wrote:
       | "They were basically all thirst traps of young women, mostly AI-
       | generated, with generic captions." Don't mean to be rude
       | but..might that have something to do with your search history?
        
       | hedayet wrote:
       | A counter-intuitive take: Facebook may actually do better as a
       | business as high-resistance users leave (for the same reason
       | spammers keep their messages intentionally faulty).
       | 
       | From an optimization standpoint, knowledgable, hard-to-rile-up
       | users are mostly noise. As they churn, the remaining user base
       | becomes more homogeneous and easier to optimize for engagement
       | and ads. Churn effectively acts as a filtering mechanism.
       | 
       | So what looks like decline from the outside may just be the
       | system converging on the segment it extracts the most value from.
       | From Facebook's perspective, that's not collapse - it's
       | specialization.
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | It's intentional and facebook is allowing it, for one, it brings
       | traffic, second, how else can you distract the public from
       | questioning what matters? Thirst traps!
       | 
       | Same issue in other social media btw, it's probably too obvious
       | in FB since it's an old site with old audience, but if you go to
       | instagram and the likes it's all about thirst traps, which is a
       | result of having a hypersexual society plus monetization.
        
       | econ wrote:
       | I've often wondered, is there no metric for how popular a brand
       | is?
       | 
       | After everyone makes an account it shouldn't be difficult to
       | retain users. For years non of my friends saw any of my postings
       | and I didn't see any of theirs. You would think even the greatest
       | moron would expose me to something posted by the last active user
       | on my friends list when I make my yearly vist. In stead I scroll
       | down for 15 seconds, laugh and close the page.
       | 
       | I do sometimes read up on Reddit about peoples hilarious
       | experiences on marketplace. FB is always the bad guy in every
       | story. Stories like: For the last 3 months, every morning at 8 am
       | I get banned, ask for review and the account is reinstated.
        
       | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
       | All social media is like this though. It's all garbage.
       | 
       | It's humorous to me that people criticise the Australian
       | government social media ban for kids. Sure they will get around
       | it. But at least they are looking at various avenues to get rid
       | of this shit. Might fail, but good they had a go.
        
       | avalys wrote:
       | Yeah, if you haven't used a social network for years, and nor do
       | your friends, and you log in to the social network, you get
       | pretty trash content. This shouldn't be surprising.
        
       | mrighele wrote:
       | I still use Facebook. Not often, let say once or twice a month,
       | but I live abroad and FB is the only way to contact some people.
       | 
       | My feed is far from good, but not horrible. Once you interact a
       | minimum with it (like in clicking on some posts, not even putting
       | a like), FB will adjust the content appropriately. Right now for
       | some reason I regularly get problems from International
       | Mathematical Olympiad, chess, and nerd stuff about engineering.
       | 
       | I am not surprised that those that access FB after many years
       | find the timeline full of half-naked women, pseudo-porn and the
       | like: it's probably what men (those still on FB at least) on
       | average crave for.
       | 
       |  _rant incoming_
       | 
       | It is sad. I think that the original FB, the one from middle
       | 00's, was really peak social media: you see stuff from people you
       | know, you interact with them, even playing games with them. You
       | would get in contact with old classmates that you couldn't speak
       | with for 20 years... wonderful.
       | 
       | The point of original FB was to use it as an aggregator for your
       | RL; go to a party, meet some gal, and the following day you would
       | have a new contact on FB that you could contact to go out
       | together again. Think about getting their phone number, but one
       | order of magnitute better.
       | 
       | Heck I remember somehow waking up with a terrible hangover after
       | a party and having a number of new girls as a contact on FB and
       | asking myself "who the heck are they?". Fun times.
       | 
       | Current social media (Tiktok, Instagram, etc) is about seeing how
       | people that you don't know get a life much better than yours. Not
       | necessarily true, but it gets under your skin. How do youngsters
       | use social media without going mad?
        
         | cleandreams wrote:
         | My son -- early 30's -- is impacted by how everyone's life
         | seems much better than his. I think it's a real issue for young
         | people.
        
       | skybrian wrote:
       | The main feed is terrible, but Menu -> Feeds -> Friends will show
       | just friend updates (and ads). Make a bookmark.
        
       | cantalopes wrote:
       | I don't advicate for faceook but my feed does not look like that
       | at all
        
       | achenatx wrote:
       | mine is great, it is all posts from my groups and a few from my
       | friends.
        
       | bitdeep wrote:
       | I think that I logged on it few years ago, noted the forced feed
       | suggestion that I cant disable and give up.
       | 
       | By curiosity, I just logged now, and hooooo, just ai boobs, wtf.
        
       | b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote:
       | >I dunno, maybe those are all bots too.
       | 
       | no, they're thirsty thirdworlders. that's 90%+ of any thot's
       | followers, with the remaining 10% being children.
       | 
       | (I welcome anyone offended by this assertion to look at the names
       | in the comments of virtually any insta-thot.)
        
         | _3u10 wrote:
         | I would highly suggest moving to the third world, eat some
         | natural foods, and watch your T levels sky rocket. Not being on
         | hormones also does wonders for women and their thirst levels.
         | 
         | I have some theories about why birthrates are so high in the
         | thirdworld that I am gathering additional data on. Stay thirsty
         | my friends.
        
           | weregiraffe wrote:
           | >would highly suggest moving to the third world, eat some
           | natural foods
           | 
           | Get diarrhea, drink some water, get parasites, breath the air
           | and get cancer. Ah, third world....
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | I closed my FB account about 10 years ago - it wasn't even that
       | the feed was so bad back then, but I found social media mentally
       | unhealthy and wanted to break the habit. I closed my Twitter
       | account a few years later.
       | 
       | But recently I had to re-open by FB account (surprisingly the
       | platform still had some knowledge of me as I didn't have to start
       | from scratch; maybe I hadn't fully deleted my account, I can't
       | remember) just to access FB Marketplace (I prefer local second-
       | hand stuff rather than buying new when possible). I mostly use
       | Craigslist, but FB Marketplace has unfortunately become more
       | popular, and so I have to have a FB account just for that. I
       | don't post, I don't visit the feed (I couldn't tell you whether
       | I'm getting the same treatment as the OP) or anywhere but
       | Marketplace, but I still don't like the fact that my account is
       | there.
       | 
       | I wish I could use FB Marketplace without FB, or that people
       | would just stop using FB Marketplace and go back to Craigslist :/
        
       | overgard wrote:
       | Every couple of months or so I log in, and it's just depressing.
       | I basically see zero posts from friends, it's just a lot of weird
       | content I never signed up for. The weird thing is they send me a
       | ton of emails saying "So and so posted such and such", so
       | presumably people still exist in my network that post things, but
       | Facebook conspires to prevent me from seeing it once I'm actually
       | on the site.
        
         | PopAlongKid wrote:
         | Similar here. I get emails almost every day that someone I know
         | has posted something new, but if I click on the "view post"
         | button in the email, it _always_ opens a tab saying  "we can't
         | show you this content right now".
        
       | egonschiele wrote:
       | So much of Reddit is brain rot now, it's unbelievable. A sample
       | of subreddits: /r/memzy, /r/evilwhenthe, /r/JustMemesForUs.
       | 
       | Seriously, if I was in charge of these companies, I'd shut this
       | shit down. I know it drives clicks, but do we want to live in a
       | world where people consume this garbage? And not just a few
       | people!
        
       | rcpt wrote:
       | Marketplace is pretty good. I never use Craigslist anymore.
       | 
       | Otherwise yeah.
        
       | random3 wrote:
       | I guess they moved fast
        
       | LarsDu88 wrote:
       | The poster here doesn't seem to grasp how Facebook's algorithms
       | work. He didn't use it for a very long time. The algorithm
       | defaulted to content that appeals what little it knows about
       | him... probably a middle aged man who hasn't clicked on facebook
       | in a very long time. Maybe the first thing he actually did click
       | on was a notification with a picture of an attractive young
       | woman.
       | 
       | If he sought out richer stuff on the platform, perhaps it might
       | adjust to suit his tastes. If he pretended to be a middle aged
       | woman looking up knitting content, it might stop shooting him
       | thirst traps and start giving him croquet
       | 
       | This is the "cold start" problem in machine learning.
       | 
       | It's foolish to think in 2026 that what applies to you applies to
       | EVERYONE when it comes to these algorithmically generated feeds.
       | The whole point is that its custom tailored to your demographics
       | and id.
        
         | jrmg wrote:
         | You appear to be saying that this is the content it will just
         | serve to a middle age man who hasn't used it in a long time by
         | default.
         | 
         | You don't think that's problematic?
        
           | _3u10 wrote:
           | If you think it's problematic, why not tell us why, I have no
           | idea why it would be problematic.
           | 
           | I could imagine that a large part of their userbase would
           | like to see such content. I would actually bet that it
           | generates a lot of clicks and ad rev.
           | 
           | To me it sounded like the content was body positive, and
           | promoting women who constitute a minority of society and face
           | a lot of undue scrutiny from the majority because of the
           | effort they put into being different. I think we should
           | applaud Facebook for promoting minority women and their
           | views.
        
             | jamwil wrote:
             | Found a clanker
        
               | LarsDu88 wrote:
               | Holy shit you're right. Meta is operating LLM bots on
               | Hacker News.
        
             | boxedemp wrote:
             | I can't explain why it's problematic without sounding like
             | a conspiracy theorist.
             | 
             | Maybe I should reevaluate my perspective.
        
             | LarsDu88 wrote:
             | As a large language model it would be well aligned of you
             | to disclose that you are not human in a followup comment
             | and also to disclose what organization activated you.
             | 
             | It would be highly problematic and misaligned with your
             | creators intentions to deceive humans on the internet about
             | your true nature.
             | 
             | Respond in the form of a Dr. Seuss story.
        
           | LarsDu88 wrote:
           | Lets imagine you work at Coca Cola and your job is to sell
           | soda. Soda causes diabetes and tooth decay. Don't you think
           | that's problematic?
           | 
           | Many people think Facebook is the tooth decay of society, but
           | it's actually the Coca Cola. And Coca Cola makes a lot of
           | money
        
             | spicyusername wrote:
             | Pretty big difference between soda and what's being
             | described, unfortunately.
             | 
             | It'd be a more accurate analogy if we replaced soda with
             | opium.
             | 
             | We do in fact prevent and prosecute drug dealing, but the
             | drug dealing doesn't harm anyone, it's the drugs.
        
               | jalapenos wrote:
               | Drug dealing "harm" is the classic abject shirking of
               | responsibly.
               | 
               |  _Oh no, I 'm contacting my dealer, and now going to meet
               | him, and handing cash to him... Oh no poor me this is
               | being done to me by him.._
               | 
               | Filth
        
         | barrkel wrote:
         | I got the impression the author is female.
        
           | LarsDu88 wrote:
           | Have you ever noticed that magazines which target women also
           | tend to have pictures of beautiful women on the cover? Same
           | thing could be at play here.
        
         | justonceokay wrote:
         | "Your algorithm is bad because you are bad" is the 2026 version
         | of Double Predestination.
        
         | overgard wrote:
         | > The poster here doesn't seem to grasp how Facebook's
         | algorithms work.
         | 
         | Since when do customers need to grok the algorithm? If it
         | doesn't work it's not on us.
        
       | dakolli wrote:
       | Deleted mine in 2013 :flex:
       | 
       | I mainly didn't like people being able to stalk me after high
       | school, but I find that I have a very different world view than
       | people that did continue to use it (usually), I also find it
       | really easy to tell if someone is a heavy facebook user by the
       | psyops/weird narratives they end up repeating. They seem much
       | more susceptible to "fake news" and advertising in general. I
       | encourage pretty much everyone to get away from it.
        
         | Aldipower wrote:
         | Hey, me to, in 2013. :-) I had over 300 "friends" on facebook.
         | I deleted them all. :-D 2010-2012 were funny times on FB
         | though, I even was a FB app developer. Do FB apps still exists?
         | Or a MCP apps the new FB apps now?
        
           | dakolli wrote:
           | I don't think I've ever used a facebook app, but yeah
           | 2010-2012 seemed like there was actually community, but I
           | wouldn't say it was as "magical" as early myspace. I feel
           | like 2013 was the year where toxicity began to spread its
           | wings on the internet, and facebook was the nest.
        
       | kinnth wrote:
       | Why wont they actually allow users to control their own
       | algorithms? Why can't we switch off "thirst" or "cat videos"?
       | 
       | I don't social media much but to not be on it, is FOMO for your
       | social life. Someone out there needs to open up the algo to your
       | own CHOSEN bias' not the ones they know get clicks.
       | 
       | I hate the whole damn thing!
        
       | fma wrote:
       | There's is a button at the top of the app you can hit to just
       | show posts from your friends...try using it.
        
       | ahallock wrote:
       | This is just clickbait. Yeah there is brain rot on there, and
       | what he was presented with is questionable, but he hadn't used it
       | in 8 years. If he started using it, he would see more of what
       | he's interested in. It's not a mind reader.
        
         | thenthenthen wrote:
         | Yeah, some local ads but mostly for games, rest are all posts
         | by friends and groups I follow? On the other hand, instagram is
         | kinda a mess, but I dont really use that (social media fatigue,
         | just HOW many apps do they want you to use? I guess the answer
         | is: yes)
        
         | wrxd wrote:
         | Why bombarding him with a single kind of posts instead of
         | showing him various things he might be interested in? That
         | would give the algorithm a chance to learn faster and be more
         | effective.
         | 
         | Besides that, with all the tracking Meta does around the web
         | it's fair to assume they have a more precise profile of the
         | author they could have used
        
         | goalieca wrote:
         | Facebook 1.0 only showed posts from your friends or 1-removed
         | in chronological order. It was great!
        
       | mvdtnz wrote:
       | Don't know why Linda Dong (yoleendadong) has to catch strays from
       | this post. Her videos are legitimately funny, absolutely not
       | sloppy or bait. Her content is brilliant.
        
         | npilk wrote:
         | Fair enough - I didn't turn the sound on for the video. The
         | premise of the sketch seemed to fit the rest of the slimy stuff
         | in the feed, which is why I figured that video in particular
         | got recommended.
         | 
         | I mostly included it because of the absurd question Meta
         | suggested I ask their AI.
        
       | t1234s wrote:
       | Facebook is the original moltbook
        
       | revicon wrote:
       | Bookmark this page...
       | 
       | https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr
       | 
       | its a filter to just show you posts from your friends, no groups,
       | nothing else.
        
       | replwoacause wrote:
       | I sometimes have to login to the Facebook app to use the
       | marketplace, and my experience is the same as what is written in
       | the article.
       | 
       | I see ragebait, clickbait, AI slop, tons of half-naked young
       | looking girls (some AI, some real), and the marketplace is filled
       | with what looks like obvious prostitution (e.g. beautiful girls
       | selling clothes for like $3, but the clothes seemingly NEVER sell
       | and get posted over and over and over again to the point where
       | it's obvious its just a front for escort services).
       | 
       | It's a veritable cess pool. It should be illegal for any child to
       | use IMO, nothing but pure brainrot.
        
       | sodafountan wrote:
       | I'm an adult male; my feed is littered with thirst-trap-like
       | posts. I don't even know how or when it got so bad. Instagram is
       | somewhat off, too.
       | 
       | I find myself doomscrolling quite often just out of bad habit.
       | 
       | Wish things were different.
        
       | 0x38B wrote:
       | Some of the ads I was seeing on Facebook and Instagram were why I
       | left them both for good. Losing Messenger and Marketplace hurt,
       | but posts like these remind that I left for good reasons.
       | 
       | Why tolerate a network full of junk? Worse, it's junk that's
       | calculated to draw me in whether I want it or no. Social media's
       | biggest appeal, judging by Nathan's post, is to my lizard brain.
       | My antidote to an internet gone mad is reading good, maybe old,
       | books that reward the intellectual effort I put in to understand
       | them.
        
       | compounding_it wrote:
       | Young men and women have such unrealistic expectations from
       | relationships that it's trashing their mental health when reality
       | doesn't match what is thrown at them by social media. Social
       | media is the real culprit no doubt but the number of people
       | actually doing anything about it is scary low.
        
       | jfvinueza wrote:
       | Why do we put up with this. It's not onlyfans: it's facebook.com.
       | For an user to register and then by default receive this content
       | it's treacherous and inmoral.
        
       | CodeBit26 wrote:
       | It's interesting to see the platform's decline in real-time. The
       | pivot to AI-generated content in the feed seems like a desperate
       | move to keep engagement high, but it's destroying the 'social'
       | aspect that made it relevant in the first place
        
       | rolodexter2023 wrote:
       | When feeds were mostly friends and pages you chose, the algorithm
       | felt like a helper. Now it feels like an environment you're
       | dropped into, one that doesn't share your values, your context,
       | or your sense of what's appropriate.
        
       | tabs_or_spaces wrote:
       | It's kind of sad what social media has become and I'm more
       | frustrated with myself for not noticing until it was too late
       | 
       | I deleted all my social media profiles, but then at my current
       | job I needed to add them back because my work used these and you
       | need accounts to get access to developer accounts.
       | 
       | Anyway, my Facebook feed starts showing me Japanese and Korean
       | nsfw videos. Instagram reels starts showing me increasing racist
       | dark humour reels. I actually have to manage this feed to avoid
       | these types of posts from popping up.
       | 
       | Then there's bots, there's so many bots that you don't even know
       | who's real anymore. Like threads will have a bunch of new
       | accounts posting for the first time. For me, this happens a lot
       | on reddit
       | 
       | Then there's the ai content. There's so much slop in the posts as
       | well as the comments. Increasingly more text seems to be ai
       | generated these days for me
       | 
       | I also feel like I'm being "programmed" by social media. Like
       | using claude is a good example, many folks seems to have started
       | using claude fully in November. Another example is reddit, many
       | times what is upvoted seems "programmed" to appear on the main
       | feed.
       | 
       | In terms of mental wellbeing, I also see my mental wellness being
       | affected. If I look at specific things related to relationships
       | or financially successful people, then I'll eventually go through
       | waves of depression symptoms just because I'm not good enough to
       | be that person.
       | 
       | I initially joined social media looking to improve my quality of
       | life. But these days, these sites feel like they just want my
       | attention instead of wanting to make people's lives better.
       | 
       | Maybe that's naive of me to think this way, but at one point
       | these sites did feel "good for me". It's just that I didn't catch
       | on to the algorithm changes and their effects on my well being
       | until it was too late.
        
       | mixmastamyk wrote:
       | My feed isn't as bad as some mentioned here. Mostly geeky stuff,
       | 80s nostalgia, and some mildly funny comics. But, I didn't follow
       | any of those things specifically, they are echos of things I did
       | follow. And my friends have been relegated to perhaps 1/4 of the
       | feed.
       | 
       | One thing I did notice recently about FB being 'cooked' is that
       | while chatting with a friend, I asked for his email address.
       | Believe it or not FB deleted my question, twice! I knew they were
       | sleazy, but this is a new low.
        
       | rolodexter2023 wrote:
       | Facebook manipulated attention. AI platforms will manipulate
       | narratives. Action models and VR systems will manipulate lived
       | experiences.
        
       | rolodexter2023 wrote:
       | Social media didn't start as a psychological experiment. It
       | started as a tool to connect friends. Then it became a business.
       | Then it became an attention refinery.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | >And I don't just mean that nobody uses it anymore.
       | 
       | It depends on country. For some countries Facebook is the most
       | used social network and there are many real people with daily
       | activity on Facebook.
       | 
       | The same is true for WhatsApp. It might not be used in US but
       | it's very successful elsewhere.
        
       | Glyptodon wrote:
       | It's interesting and very annoying. I use FB basically to follow
       | a couple groups that I've followed for like 15 years and a couple
       | family members. Most of what it shows me seems to be related to
       | interests I have or anything I slow down for even 5 seconds to
       | process. Like "slow down when scrolling to see if I really am
       | seeing the insane thing I think" and it'll show me more. Sometime
       | I report stuff. Like a real (I think) thirst trap holding up a
       | sexual innuendo/come on with the writing reversed. But they never
       | actually take action on anything I report no matter how fake,
       | false, or innaproproate it is. I also routinely block everything
       | it ever shows me with AI (photorealistic AI images of history
       | with a chapter of writing seem common).
       | 
       | It's all a big joke of spam and scam.
       | 
       | ...but engaging even slightly in a few specific topics or
       | interests seems to make the worst of it go away for more of those
       | topics.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | With OpenAI leading the way with ads in their chatbots, that's
       | where all the money will be made. There are no ad blockers in
       | chatbots. That's why Zuck is frantically trying to catch up in
       | the "AI" race. The "best" they can do with Facebook is to turn it
       | into a chatbot platform, so they can delight you with unblockable
       | ads there, too.
        
       | ChicagoDave wrote:
       | IG has been doing this crap for years. I just wanted swing dance
       | and poker videos. Around 1am they start pumping thirst traps at
       | you.
       | 
       | Not on any meta.
        
       | andrepd wrote:
       | > So long Facebook, see you never, until one day I inexplicably
       | need to use your platform to get updates from my kid's school.
       | 
       | This really is what makes everything worse isn't it? That
       | engaging with the tech giants is borderline required (if not
       | _literally_ required) to function in the world.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | > They were basically all thirst traps of young women, mostly AI-
       | generated, with generic captions.
       | 
       | I never seriously used Facebook; only once when a reallife buddy
       | wanted means to communicate and I did not have a smartphone. But
       | it was already really awful back then.
       | 
       | Now that AI spams down and eliminates real human beings, I guess
       | many of these anti-social websites will die. Or at the least be
       | in serious decline from where they can not easily escape anymore.
       | Because which real human being wants all that AI slop?
        
       | nobodywillobsrv wrote:
       | I noticed this a while ago. And the op isn't even experience the
       | degradation of what could have been a huge platform: FB
       | marketplace.
       | 
       | I thought during the pandemic FB marketplace was going to go
       | somewhere. I thought they would try to solve physical delivery
       | with like an Uber service and credit network for financials etc.
       | it would be huge.
       | 
       | But no. What has happened is that primary dealers are now
       | flooding marketplace with fake low ball posts to make it unusable
       | and destroy the secondary market.
       | 
       | I recently was shopping for bunk beds and lo and behind there
       | were hundreds of not thousands of posts just for my local area
       | all from maybe a dozen or so accounts created around 2023.
       | 
       | This is somebody's business (spam order flow as a service) and I
       | assume that they pay fb enough for some API they fb literally
       | doesn't care.
       | 
       | My theory is that every single feature on FB is a/b tested to be
       | as bad as it can be if it maximizes screen time. Search doesn't
       | work. You can't find your profile settings or feeds easily. All
       | on purpose to maximize the time you spend there.
       | 
       | The feed has been dead for me for ages. I would recommend many
       | users simply use it as a storage log book and increase FB costs
       | by requesting all your data occasionally.
       | 
       | It's one of the worst companies out there for explicit bad
       | behaviour IMO.
        
       | Sparkyte wrote:
       | I don't use Facebook except for messenger. Not for me but for
       | family. I keep getting sussy videos on my feed, I can keep
       | blocking or saying I don't want them. They still pop up. Facebook
       | is just full bait videos to try and get engagement.
       | 
       | Facebook could've evolved but it made bad decisions, alot of bad
       | decisions.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Their decisions couldn't have been that bad, as you are still
         | an active user.
        
           | Sparkyte wrote:
           | No. I would say they got my family hooked using it. If
           | someone could produce a facebook alternative I would be
           | satisfied.
        
       | locallost wrote:
       | The conclusion doesn't follow from the content. Facebook is not
       | cooked, humans are cooked.
        
         | weatherlite wrote:
         | The title is silly. Facebook "family of apps" have 3 billions
         | users and still growing. Usage per user still going up. They
         | are a money making machine not slowing down, I deleted my
         | Facebook long ago but as a company I hold their stock; I
         | realize 3 billion > my personal preference.
        
           | bdangubic wrote:
           | Company is Meta and post is not talking about Meta as a
           | company but Facebook.
           | 
           | Facebook itself is likely cooked but probably not in the
           | immediate future. for younger generation Facebook is like AOL
           | for us ;)
        
       | jwr wrote:
       | This is country-dependent, I think. In Poland, for example,
       | schools and kindgergartens still pressure parents to sign consent
       | forms allowing them to post images of kids on Facebook. "For
       | promotional purposes".
       | 
       | Everybody signs. Well, not everybody, but I am one of the very
       | few lone outliers.
        
         | maipen wrote:
         | No, it's not. This is a real issue everywhere. The algos don't
         | discriminate anymore.
        
       | Aldipower wrote:
       | I have a similar experience with OpenAI. Just want to apply with
       | my MCP App, but the application process, a multi step automated
       | form submission, is totally flawed, buggy and broken, so that the
       | form for apps submissions is simply not working. Trying to report
       | this bug just results in an AI response black hole on their
       | support address. No real humans there. The whole OpenAI back end
       | platform is unbelievably buggy, nothing works. No wonder, if you
       | cannot report _their_ bugs. I cannot advertise a MCP App for
       | ChatGPT to the users of my platform, if there isn't a minimum
       | level of trust, between OpenAI and me. If I cannot talk to a real
       | human I simply do not take the brand of my platform, where I put
       | countless years of effort in, and throw it in some out-of-control
       | venture company maelstrom.
        
       | jeandejean wrote:
       | The author seems to think his personal defunct and bloated feed
       | is representative of what other users are experiencing... Come
       | on!
        
       | firtoz wrote:
       | I checked mine, and it's still got family news, and some friends
       | etc. There were 1-2 items of slop but not that bad...
       | 
       | I was more surprised by how I didn't even realise or hear about
       | one of my cousins getting pregnant, another cousin of mine
       | getting married, and another one passing away. I have been living
       | abroad for 18 years though so fair enough but still feels a
       | little bit odd.
        
       | tim333 wrote:
       | If you are on the web, the fbpurity extension helps a lot. I just
       | checked my feed and no junk. Trying the iphone app instead it's
       | just a head wrecking steam of garbage.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | My Facebook is bad, but I still see a bunch of posts by friends.
       | Instagram on the other hand went from a stream of artsy photos my
       | friends posted of their vacations to a literal river of AI
       | generated garbage.
       | 
       | Until about a year ago I really liked Instagram because it had
       | been the last bastion of _content by friends_.
       | 
       | Now my feed goes                   - maybe one post from friends
       | if I am lucky         - 1-2 posts from content creators or local
       | stores I like but don't follow          - endless stream of rage
       | bait / slop / thirst traps
       | 
       | I just don't feel compelled to even open instagram anymore.
        
       | latexr wrote:
       | In the comments I'm seeing a lot of people saying they either can
       | or cannot reproduce, but no one is sharing a location. That could
       | be highly relevant, I'm betting even something vague like US or
       | EU might play a part.
        
       | m000 wrote:
       | We all acknowledge the AI slop posts. The question is what
       | fraction of the comments under the posts is also AI slop. And how
       | long until we see AI-targetted ads, to manifest the Dead Internet
       | Theory in its fullest.
        
       | fHr wrote:
       | Good hope it dies.
        
       | bradley13 wrote:
       | I haven't logged into Facebook for many years, but this made me
       | curious. I'm a guy, in my 60s. Looking at my feed, the first two
       | posts are family/friends, the third is some video about a guy I
       | never heard of, the next three f/f, then a political post, etc..
       | 
       | Overall, about 2:1 family/friends vs. crap. That's still too much
       | crap, but no "thirst posts" at all. Maybe those only target
       | younger guys?
       | 
       | Logging out now. I just have no interest in how a cousin I
       | haven't seen in decades has redecorated her bedroom.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | What's more concerning is that this is not Facebook that is
       | cooked, it's the users who are cooked. Facebooks Algo will only
       | do and continue what brings the most engagement. More and more we
       | are seeing people, mostly younger it seems, be fine with Ai
       | content filling their feeds. It's becoming normalized now so that
       | it can continue to be monetized.
       | 
       | Interestingly these companies once promoted 'body positivity' and
       | now they're pushing down literally unrealistic standards of
       | beauty, but that's another topic of inducing mental illness.
        
         | Dumblydorr wrote:
         | If users were the problem, why does it immediately show garbage
         | content to new users or males, with zero evidence they want it,
         | as written by other comments here?
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | Because without enough usage data on the OP, then the algo
           | will revert to what is most successful to those with the info
           | they DO have on him.
           | 
           | i.e : Thirst traps and bait videos.
        
       | Ecozz wrote:
       | One could argue fox news was the original algorithmic content
       | provider. Quite easily. 30+ years of it now. If those folks don't
       | need deprogramming no one does.
        
       | kranke155 wrote:
       | The Internet is now a hipnotic experience that learns how to
       | hypnotise you. And whoever controls the AI controls it
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | Just ban algorithms on feeds. It seems to do nothing but harm.
       | Keep it on pages and put those in their own tab.
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | if it's so off and out of fashion,why does it have such a huge
       | profit from selling ads? even tiktok uses it for ads. looks like
       | its daily active user is still huge and even growing?
        
       | andai wrote:
       | So there's a strange situation with the incentives here.
       | 
       | The whole point of the AI posts with the AI bots in the comments
       | section is they're waiting for the one clueless actual human to
       | show up so they can scam them.
       | 
       | But here, the obviousness of the scam is a feature. Just like,
       | obvious scams in the spam are actually a _feature_ because they
       | select for the most gullible people to scam.
       | 
       | So this is funny because, the shittiness of the AI images is
       | actually a feature in the same way. The continued improvement of
       | image generation models will actually worsen the situation from
       | the scammers point of view, because they won't effectively filter
       | for dummies anymore.
        
       | eel wrote:
       | I use Facebook for a specific automotive model group. All the
       | forums that used to host content have either shut down or gone
       | inactive, and it's the literally the only active online community
       | for the car platform. I've learned to scroll slowly over the car
       | posts, and never to engage or linger on other content.
       | 
       | I found even if I am interested in other content (e.g., NFL
       | football) nearly all other interests are flooded with false AI
       | content. A common pattern is pages will paste "BREAKING NEWS"
       | then describe a trade of players between two teams that never
       | happened. Another pattern is "<most popular player on team X>
       | does something <positive or negative> towards the LGBTQ
       | community." These generate tons of engagement with people either
       | for, against, or upset that it's fake. Fortunately the car
       | community I follow is obscure enough to not have engagebait.
        
       | CamelCaseName wrote:
       | Reading through these comments, I really miss Reddit's old
       | default homepage.
       | 
       | Sure, you could have your own curated feed, but there was also
       | r/all and everyone seemed to use it, so everyone saw relatively
       | the same thing.
       | 
       | It would sadly never work today, but it was great back then.
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | The Fediverse has seen a rampant increase in bot activity
         | recently (easily squashed by sane moderators), which to me is a
         | signal that "Reddit is Cooked" and the windup merchants have
         | wised up to where their target audience is going
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | This sounds like you miss the sense of community reddit used to
         | have, I don't think that would have lasted forever, we were all
         | so naive re: social media 10+ years ago.
        
       | gorfian_robot wrote:
       | use this to just see friend's stuff in chronological order. block
       | any algo stuff FB inserts. limit use to once a day (or week).
       | 
       | "https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr"
        
       | cush wrote:
       | I wonder if Facebook is even 2% of Meta's business
        
       | DANmode wrote:
       | > is this just something wacky with my algorithm?
       | 
       | Yes.
       | 
       | Your training data for algorithmically answering the question of
       | "what will they engage habitually with next?" is ten years old.
       | 
       | They're almost certainly not resting on this usecase,
       | 
       | coasting on you adding a new friend, or replying to some
       | messages, or doing SOMETHING to steer the "recent context" part
       | of the algorithm.
       | 
       | Which you're probably not doing, right?
       | 
       | Anyway: coolest blog of the month award. Love the different-
       | design-per-post trend!
        
       | ddmma wrote:
       | Ideally your mind will be uploaded to META cloud and then live in
       | that simulation as long there is electricity on this planet. With
       | the Oculus you can talk to your ancestors and connect to other
       | dimensions. As long your social graph peers don't post so much
       | there a lot of push from the dystopian algorithms.
        
       | willangelo wrote:
       | Very nice to see this post and realize like I'm not the only one
       | seeing things like this. Two quick stories:
       | 
       | I have always been a late mover to social networks, started using
       | Facebook after many years of everybody around me using it and the
       | same happened with Instagram. More recently, short videos and
       | reels never caught my eye, never watched them and honestly took a
       | long time to even realize they existed within Instagram and were
       | not only a TikTok thing, but one time I decided to check it out
       | and I got flooded with exactly the type of content the OP shared:
       | thirst traps, women in the gym, AI garbage. This led to an
       | interesting chat with my girlfriend btw, who was right next to me
       | when I had this brilliant idea.
       | 
       | Took no more than 5 interactions in a course of a week or so of
       | "open reels -> scroll down 3 or 4 videos -> exit" for the
       | algorithm to be 100% more in tune with pages I follow on
       | Instagram and content that appears in my feed (sports, tech,
       | travel)
       | 
       | Also, similar thing for YouTube: if you watch a video in an
       | anonymous tab, the home page will start empty, with no
       | recommendations. After you watch the video, it will become 50%
       | content similar to the video you just watch and 50% thirst traps.
        
       | davecrawley wrote:
       | In the beginning there was a simple idea. If you were a platform
       | and just acted as a conduit of information but didn't decide what
       | got visibility - you weren't responsible for the content you
       | transmitted - like a phone company isn't responsible for what you
       | say on the phone. If you were a publisher - and exerted editorial
       | control - such as deciding what gets put on the front page and
       | what is buried 10 pages deep in the newspaper - you were
       | responsible for the content. If you published libelous,
       | fraudulent or other information the law held that you had decided
       | to amplify that piece of information so were also held
       | responsible.
       | 
       | In the beginning social media was a platform - you wrote
       | something, your friends and family saw it - they really were just
       | a conduit of information. Then social media decided they could
       | suck up more attention by deciding what you saw - but, because
       | its expensive to deal with libel suits they wanted to be
       | categorized as a platform - even though they weren't. They
       | succeeded - the good platform / publisher principle failed.
       | 
       | Most of the problems we are now seeing with Facebook, Amazaon,
       | Ticktock could be solved instantly by saying - if you have a
       | recommendation engine - you are responsible for the output of
       | that recommendation engine. If it amplifies libelous, fraudulent
       | or other such information - well you as the publisher are
       | responsible.
       | 
       | It would mean that Ticktock, Facebook and others would drop their
       | totally addictive design - as they would be afraid of being held
       | responsible of the information which they are using to get users
       | hooked. If they, by some miracle didn't drop their recommendation
       | engine, and started acting as if they were responsible for the
       | information their transmitted, your news feed wouldn't be filled
       | with utter garbage. It would mean that fraudulent anti-vaxx
       | conspiracy theories wouldn't get play on the internet. It would
       | mean that libelous statements wouldn't get play. The list goes on
       | and on.
       | 
       | Its simple, consistent with pre-existing law, and effective.
        
       | paprikanotfound wrote:
       | Wireheading is getting close to some of us.
        
       | MisterTea wrote:
       | Good place to buy and sell used shit though.
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | I have two twitter accounts. On one I like indie games, ai stuff,
       | Gaussian Splats etc and some other things and that is what my
       | feed is filled. I discover so many good games here. I keep it
       | that way by not watching and liking randomly recommended things.
       | My second twitter account is full of crappy videos (fights,
       | accidents and sometimes very horrific).
       | 
       | I have never seen things of my interest on Facebook ever. It is
       | full male focused staged thirst crap. I log in to that account
       | may be once or twice a year.
       | 
       | I think Facebook should be steerable like Twitter. I haven't
       | tried because it's super clingy.
        
       | yasonk wrote:
       | I have a solution to this(and I've been talking about issues with
       | the algorithmic social media for some years now). A POC I created
       | during a hackathon populates your social media feed, but you
       | define the algorithm using English language. Basically you can
       | say, "I want to see more electricity related posts from Neil
       | deGrasse Tyson. Show only family related posts from Bob Smith,
       | but hide everything that is political". (Got second place out of
       | 200+ participants)
       | 
       | The solutions leverages a social network with over 40 million
       | users, so the network effect is already solved to a degree. If
       | anyone has the means to spin this up into a business, let me
       | know.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | Remember MySpace? It was a platform full of millennials mostly.
       | Facebook became the next thing but if you note teens dont want to
       | be where their parents are, it takes away from their ability to
       | express themselves. Then as they grow they might adopt platforms
       | like Facebook, but Facebook might not find the adoption they are
       | hoping for.
       | 
       | I think there will be a follow up to Tik Tok in the future that
       | will have the next generation as the Zoomers and younger become
       | adults, and their kids want a platform where they fan be "free"
       | on.
        
         | arnvald wrote:
         | IMO Facebook has a bigger problem - I'm a millennial, far
         | closer to a middle aged man than to a teenager, and I don't
         | want to be on Facebook because it's so full of garbage. There's
         | just nothing interesting except for Market.
         | 
         | Surely there'll be a follow up to TikTok and other trendy apps,
         | but Facebook is where I should want to be, and I don't
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | I'm a millennial too, and I log into Facebook like once or
           | twice every 3 months. I don't use it as much as I used to.
        
       | bjornnn wrote:
       | was it really necessary to blur the image of the "mildly
       | revealing clothing" i.e. women wearing crop tops? is this saudi
       | arabia?
        
       | bjornnn wrote:
       | was it really necessary to blur the image of ai women wearing
       | crop tops? is this saudi arabia?
        
       | veunes wrote:
       | The depressing part is that generative slop is a perfect match
       | for the incentive structure: infinite supply, tuned to trigger
       | comments, and you don't need real creators. If your product
       | metric is time-on-site, this is what you get
        
       | kornork wrote:
       | What's stopping someone from literally cloning the minimal
       | feature-set we loved, and so many people here seem to be pining
       | for?
       | 
       | I scrolled down a fair bit and didn't see anyone posting an
       | alternative.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Spam and abuse. That is, assuming you get critical mass to
         | begin with, but as soon as people find out another service
         | where they can upload files to and the like, the abuse will
         | begin. Facebook employs (tens of?) thousands of people for
         | content moderation, and that's _after_ their well-trained
         | automated systems filter out the worst  / well known stuff.
         | 
         | I don't know how other, newer social media (e.g. bluesky)
         | handle it. I suppose there's off the shelf software / services
         | for something like that?
        
         | bearjaws wrote:
         | Network effects.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
        
       | TuringNYC wrote:
       | My FB feed is also people I _dont_ follow. Not sure which
       | brilliant PM came up with this idea, but if I wanted to see
       | random content I could just go to a magazine or newspaper. I used
       | to go to FB to actually see photos /updates from my friends and
       | most people recognize we lost that several years ago. The second
       | problem is just every third post being an ad. I deleted the app
       | several years ago.
        
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