[HN Gopher] Halt and Catch Fire: TV's best drama you've probably...
___________________________________________________________________
Halt and Catch Fire: TV's best drama you've probably never heard of
(2021)
Author : walterbell
Score : 675 points
Date : 2026-02-18 02:18 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sceneandheardnu.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sceneandheardnu.com)
| IBCNU wrote:
| And as I understand it loosely based on the fantastic and seminal
| book Soul of a New Machine.
|
| I had a great EM once who said I need to read it because nothing
| has changed in 40 years, and I keep a copy on my desk.
|
| Touching as well, as it's on Joe MacMillan's desk in the final
| scene of third season.
|
| What's so great about it is:
|
| - mushroom theory of management works - trust new graduates and
| juniors to win by not understanding the possible - throw all the
| corporate bs away, just build - competing teams (skunk-works, vs
| roadmap team) works - real innovation is built by tinkerers, from
| the ground up, not top down
|
| as a startup weirdo in the age of AI, who pines for the golden
| era (as they call it the golden prarie) i highly recommend this
| show!
| LambdaComplex wrote:
| You just reminded me that I got about halfway through Soul of a
| New Machine. Maybe I'll pick it back up this week.
| unmole wrote:
| > And as I understand it loosely based on the fantastic and
| seminal book Soul of a New Machine.
|
| I've only watched the first season and really don't see the
| link to _Soul of a New Machine_.
| tptacek wrote:
| Season 1 is Soul of a New Machine-ish, but about personal
| computing, not minicomputers, and is set in Texas.
|
| Season 2 is roughly about BBSs and Compuserve, and still in
| Texas.
|
| Season 3 is about the early commercial Internet, same
| characters, SFBA.
|
| Season 4 is about the Yahoo era of the Internet and about
| venture capital, also SFBA.
| ai_critic wrote:
| The problem with it is that it is ahistorical enough in the
| tech that some things just don't work. The show tackles stuff
| about like a decade before it was actually relevant in
| market, and that has subtle problems that give the business
| stuff an uncanny-valley feel. Still a fun drama though.
| deaddodo wrote:
| Yeah, agreed. Watching it as a drama, it's fun. Watching it
| with any perspective on tech history it gets a little
| cringy.
|
| The first season is semi-accurate if you just replace
| Compaq with their company. But it quickly goes off the
| rails.
| kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
| I lost interest in the second season. S1 was great,
| though.
| tptacek wrote:
| S2 is the weakest season, and S1 isn't the strongest.
| icedchai wrote:
| S2 was super fun though. The BBS period brought back
| nostalgia.
| cestith wrote:
| Of course Compaq was Houston rather than DFW. The case
| design for the first portable was scribbled on the back
| of a paper placemat at the House of Pies diner on
| Westheimer.
|
| They still could have had Donna working at TI, which has
| a presence there.
| hibikir wrote:
| I like the fact that it's the wrong years for the idea to
| succeed: Kind of like with the Newton, they are going into
| visionary ideas when the tech or the market isn't there.
| There's a lot of companies out there that fail because they
| go in too early to have good execution.
| Nevermark wrote:
| So many people have been there. Working to put something
| together, but with gaps that are hard to close. I have
| been there.
|
| Even billionaires like Zuck bite off more than they can
| chew and flail around.
|
| For that matter, Jobs at NeXT succeeded in an unlikely
| way in the end. But for much of NeXT's existence it
| chronically couldn't get enough traction. They ended up
| droping the hardware. Then down purposed their OS into a
| developer platform to run on other OS's. So
| disappointing. But they did such good work, when Apple
| had a need, they were ready.
| leoc wrote:
| And NeXT was the spiritual successor to Apple's internal
| "Big Mac" project which never even made it to market
| before it was killed. (The project leader Rich Page and
| others started phoning the already-fired Jobs, begghing
| him to step in, when Big Mac was deep-sixed.) The Mac had
| come after the Xerox Star, which failed commercially, and
| the Apple Lisa, which failed commerically: then it too
| nearly failed commercially, until the desktop-publishing
| market finally came together around it. And even then
| industry wiseacres like John C. Dvorak had years more fun
| mocking it (not completely without justification) as an
| extravagant toy and a market also-ran.
| alexjplant wrote:
| During my first watch of this show there were around
| eleventy kabillion times that I reflexively shouted "that's
| not how that worked!" at the TV (and I'm a 90s kid with
| cursory retrocomputing knowledge). I say "reflexively"
| because I wasn't actually mad at these technical
| inaccuracies - they were largely in service of a good plot
| and weren't "SVU" or "CSI" levels of ridiculous.
|
| So yes, those C64s were running software 5-10 years ahead
| of their time because the writers felt like it and were
| able to get away with such.
| jhbadger wrote:
| It also annoyed me that the Commodore 64s used for their
| online service were shown with DOS prompts. I think the set
| designers thought "Commodore 64s are old; old computers ran
| DOS; therefore Commodore 64s ran DOS"
| vel0city wrote:
| Season 1 feels like its connecting back to Compaq, which made
| a competitor to IBM's PC platform. Founded by previous TI
| employees, reverse engineered IBM's BIOS, etc.
| arscan wrote:
| My father was an unnamed DG marketing executive in the book,
| who joked that his greatest career regret was asking Kidder to
| be unnamed in case the book wasn't any good (it won Kidder the
| Pulitzer). I've been meaning to go through his old notebooks,
| as he took detailed notes on everything, to see if there is
| anything left from that era.
| IBCNU wrote:
| amazing lore!
| acomjean wrote:
| DG = data general a "large" computer company in Westboro
| mass. My mom worked there doing internationaliztion.
|
| Soul of a new machine is a fantastic book. About DG going up
| against DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) and their Vax
| machines.
| randrus wrote:
| I joined DG in their last days, largely due to kidders book.
|
| Also, I really liked DG/UX, for reasons I no longer recall.
| myself248 wrote:
| > I've been meaning to go through his old notebooks, as he
| took detailed notes on everything, to see if there is
| anything left from that era.
|
| Please do! Ephemera like that can tell more sides of the
| story that didn't make it into the book, for whatever reason.
| arscan wrote:
| I got the sense that Kidders side was approximately equal
| to my father's side, as my father said he provided a lot of
| information to the author through interviews and was happy
| with the account that ended up in the book. I'll see what I
| can find though.
|
| I ended up working for the lead of the competing team
| within DG (whose product lost to the book's protagonist)
| for many years right after college at a different company
| he founded. I suspect he has a slightly different
| perspective on the whole thing, but I never asked.
|
| Sadly my father and many of his contemporaries are no
| longer with us. But I'm really happy that this book exists
| as a durable & accurate snapshot of the period. The
| computer history museum also has a wonderful collection of
| interviews worth checking out, which includes several of
| the staff from DG [1]
|
| 1. https://computerhistory.org/oral-histories/
| danielvaughn wrote:
| Lee Pace's performance in that show is one of my all time
| favorites. It's incredibly hard to play a charismatic marketing
| guru because in some sense, you're not acting. In a given scene,
| the character might be trying to convince people around him of
| some crazy idea, but if he hasn't convinced you, the viewer, then
| the entire illusion falls apart. So he really has to do in real
| life what he's pretending to do on screen.
|
| edit - a great example and one of my favorite scenes from the
| show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOR8mk0tLpc
| IBCNU wrote:
| he reminds me of truly the best bosses
|
| also something about him with a good engineer
|
| reminds me of me and my boss, i hope lol
| imglorp wrote:
| More recently, I loved how he killed it in Foundation. Another
| great casting for a great actor.
| itsnowandnever wrote:
| foundation has an incredible cast but even among such talent
| he's a clear outlier
| OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote:
| Lee Pace is such a phenomenal actor. He really just transforms
| the roles he's in and makes something special out of each show
| he's in.
|
| He's also fantastic in Apple TV's Foundation and it's been
| really impressive seeing his range put on display there.
| idontwantthis wrote:
| He also stars in The Fall, one of my favorite movies ever.
| prhn wrote:
| He also played Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy and King
| Thranduil in Lord of the Rings!
| swyx wrote:
| how dare you mention Lee Pace and -not- mention his role in
| Foundation, he carried that entire show on his way too
| muscley back
| deaddodo wrote:
| It's not cancelled, there's a fourth season on the way.
|
| But yes, him and Jared Harris are pretty much the primary
| reasons to watch. And given the limited Harris screentime,
| definitely Pace carries it.
| nnevatie wrote:
| People are using past tense, as David S. Goyer is leaving
| the show behind.
| swyx wrote:
| oh no, this is how i found out my favorite show is dead
| wtf
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| The articles I can find say he's staying on as a EP, just
| stepping down as the main show runner. That seems very
| different than leaving the show behind.
| nnevatie wrote:
| Yes, it could be there's no impact from any of it. I just
| remember seeing the headlines about the change.
| esafak wrote:
| Lee Pace is a first rate actor but I could not recognize him or
| indeed, most of the characters in this show, as representative
| of their roles. I struggled to suspend my disbelief. The show
| felt like it was written by people who _imagined_ what it must
| have been like rather than people who had any experience of it.
| I still enjoyed it somewhat. Not Silicon Valley good but okay.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| I'm always surprised Lee Pace doesn't get more recognition;
| I've loved a lot of his quirkier projects like Wonderfalls,
| Pushing Daisies, and Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day, but it's
| not like he hasn't also been in mainstream things like The
| Hobbit and Guardians of the Galaxy.
| esafak wrote:
| Don't forget
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_(2006_film)
| jjk166 wrote:
| He's in very heavy makeup in Guardians of the Galaxy (and
| his blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo in Captain Marvel), and
| while you can get a good look at his face in The Hobbit,
| his character doesn't get much screentime and isn't
| especially prominent - and indeed I don't think the Hobbit
| trilogy really turned any actors into household names which
| weren't already.
|
| I love Lee Pace but there really hasn't been a blockbuster
| where he's front and center.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| That's fair. I think his starring moment was really
| _Pushing Daisies_ , but that kind of thing is not for
| everyone; even just the hyperreal aesthetic would be a
| barrier for some.
| unmole wrote:
| > I struggled to suspend my disbelief. The show felt like it
| was written by people who imagined what it must have been
| like rather than people who had any experience of it.
|
| This! It's not a _bad_ show but people calling it the _Best
| Drama_ are wildly overselling it.
| gorjusborg wrote:
| I really liked the show _despite_ Lee Pace 's performance.
|
| Pace really nails the intense Jobs vibe, but having seen his
| other work, it seems like it might not be 100% acting.
| There's consistency to the _off_ feeling he gives across
| roles.
|
| Gordon's role was probably the most setting accurate, but I
| do feel the story would have suffered if the entire cast was
| realistic to 80s standards rather than translated into
| late-2010s sensibilities.
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| Funny that this came up today. Last night I started re-watching
| the series after several years. Just this afternoon I was
| reflecting on how genuinely charismatic Lee Pace's Joe McMillen
| is.
|
| You really feel it. Even when we know he's a manipulative
| sonuvabitch. It's mesmerizing. You have to admire his ability
| to spin shit into gold. The man has vision.
|
| There's a sequence around S01E07 that I'm looking forward to
| reaching again, in which Joe is out on the front lawn with
| Donna's daughters during a hurricane and it's FEELS like magic.
| His performance feels earnest, and hypnotizing, and genuinely
| magical as he puts on a show for these young girls in the rain.
|
| There's something intangible and hard to describe about the
| series. The writers have a way of making it transcend it's core
| drama and feel very different from just about any other show I
| can recall. Somehow it feels like pure creative expression that
| manages to defy outside expectations and tell a story that
| feels true to life and convey the ambitions of creative people
| who are fighting to make something beautiful.
| metamet wrote:
| You're making me really want to start a rewatch.
|
| It's shocking how few people have seen this show, let along
| watched it. Part of that probably has to do with how
| inaccessible it is on streaming. It's only readily available
| on AMC+. And no one has AMC+.
|
| This is one of those shows that would likely shoot to the top
| if Netflix got the rights to it and even did a mild push.
| It's genuinely peak prestige TV.
| walterbell wrote:
| 40-episode box set is $30 ($16 today) on Apple TV.
| dzink wrote:
| And just like that, their sales skyrocketed.
| dep_b wrote:
| Not in Europe?
| arethuza wrote:
| It does seem to be available on ITVX in the UK.
| mrcarrot wrote:
| It's available on Prime Video (at least on amazon.de).
| For a long while they would only sell access to season 1,
| but I've just checked now and all 4 seasons are available
| at the moment.
| Gormo wrote:
| Apple TV is distributing physical media?
| walterbell wrote:
| Scroll past the subscription options to find the full
| series listing. "Box Set" licensing terminology is as
| anachronistic as "Seasons", but both are used in Apple TV
| product listings for non-subscription streaming media
| purchases.
| Gormo wrote:
| I'm not seeing anything anachronistic about either term.
| "Seasons" is absolutely aligned to the way television
| series are still produced and distributed. "Box Set"
| implies physical media. Using the latter term to refer to
| something else sounds like a case of false advertising.
| walterbell wrote:
| Apple offers refunds for unwanted digital purchases, and
| this description in Apple TV app: When
| you purchase access to this item, you can permanently
| download it to your iPhone, iPad, Mac, or PC. Once
| downloaded, you can access this without an internet
| connection, and Apple can't remove it from your device.
| Gormo wrote:
| Wait, so it's actually a standalone, DRM-free download?
| If that's the case, then while the term is still somewhat
| misleading, it's considerably less so than I assumed.
| walterbell wrote:
| Not DRM free, but unlike most streaming services Apple TV
| will download purchased media via different countries or
| VPNs and has no time limit to watch the download. In
| practice, it "just works". Buying all 4 seasons
| individually would be 4x$13=$52.
| Altidude wrote:
| Also free to watch on The Roku Channel: https://therokuch
| annel.roku.com/details/523a290683575d449483...
| knappe wrote:
| That is where I originally watched it. It was on Netflix at
| one point. And now, it is not. Which is most of the problem
| with streaming service in general.
| echelon_musk wrote:
| > _It 's shocking how few people have seen this show, let
| along watched it_
|
| Huh?
| latexr wrote:
| I think they mean "seen" in the sense of "know it
| exists", as in seeing it advertised on a billboard or the
| sea of thumbnails in a streaming service.
| runamuck wrote:
| I recommend AMC+ if you like horror because you also get
| Shudder. I get to watch Joe Bob Brigg's "Last Drive In."
|
| Plus all the Prestige Y2K Television - Mad Men, Breaking
| Bad, Walking Dead.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| It used to be available as part of Prime. I've watched that
| series 3 times. It is very good..one of my all time faves,
| actually.
| fdefitte wrote:
| What gets me about this show is how it nails the emotional
| cost of building things. Most tech dramas focus on the
| product or the money. HaCF focuses on what it does to the
| people. The relationships that get wrecked, the compromises
| you make, the way obsession eats everything around it. If
| you've ever been deep in a startup you feel it in your chest
| watching this show.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| I have watched the first two seasons a few years ago and
| didn't continue because I was getting so emotionally
| invested it was making me anxious, not just in front of the
| screen but also for quite some time afterwards. I'm looking
| forward to finishing it once I decide my skin has grown
| thick enough :D
| walterbell wrote:
| _> There 's something intangible and hard to describe about
| the series. The writers have a way of making it transcend
| it's core drama and feel very different from just about any
| other show I can recall._
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(TV_series.
| .. [actors gathered] at Pace's house on
| weekends to prepare dinner, drink wine, and discuss the
| scripts and their characters.. "it was really nice, because
| you got to hear other people's point of views about your
| character." For the third season, Pace, Davis, and McNairy
| lived together in a rented house in Atlanta, with Toby Huss
| joining them for the fourth season.. Rogers called
| Lisco the duo's mentor, saying: "He.. showed us the ropes..
| it was a master class in how to run a room, both in terms of
| getting a great story out of people, and.. being a really
| good and decent and fair person in what can sometimes be a
| brutal industry.." Between the second and third seasons, all
| of the series's writers departed to work on their own
| projects, requiring Cantwell and Rogers to build a new
| writing staff.
| hinkley wrote:
| Probably help him land Foundation. The narcissism is its own
| skill.
| protocolture wrote:
| The guy gives me chills, he reminds me of every sales douche
| who has ever tried to pull the wool over my eyes, or sell a
| customer something so horrendous and undeliverable as to be
| actively business ending.
|
| An absolute legendary performance.
| seneca wrote:
| > The guy gives me chills, he reminds me of every sales
| douche who has ever tried to pull the wool over my eyes, or
| sell a customer something so horrendous and undeliverable as
| to be actively business ending.
|
| The thing is, Joe is supposed to actually have substance and
| vision. He's not faking it. The difference is that all those
| sales guys are pretending to be someone like Joe.
| protocolture wrote:
| I dont know about substance, but possibly vision. Its an
| old pattern, he kept selling more until the technical
| reality caught up with him. And he would abuse the
| technical staff to try and squeeze more out, but mostly
| because his reputation was riding on having sold it.
| jhbadger wrote:
| He's basically supposed to be a Steve Jobs character -
| manipulative, with weak technical knowledge, but with high
| charisma. The part where he takes credit for Gordon's work
| is very much a reference to the Jobs/Wozniak relationship.
| jjk166 wrote:
| No, Joe _wants_ to have substance and vision. The tragedy
| of his character is his slow realization that he just doesn
| 't have it. Indeed it's the tragedy of all the main cast
| that each has some of what it takes to make something truly
| revolutionary, but they lack some key aspect. They each
| know that another has the missing piece they need, but they
| can't sustainably maintain a relationship with them.
| gnatman wrote:
| maybe some sales look like this but anyone who models
| themselves after this or madmen or whatever... good luck.
| Nevermark wrote:
| Anyone modeling themselves after someone, isn't going to have
| that electricity.
|
| You really have to believe in yourself and your plan, and
| have a real plan even if its in flux, to communicate like
| that and carry it off. But when audacity is backed up by
| substance, it really gets people's attention.
| jldugger wrote:
| Sadly, Season 1 Joe is just incohesive. Like, you want there to
| be some structural reason behind his madness and there just
| isn't any, because there's too much of crazy. Season 2 tries to
| walk much of that back.
|
| I haven't yet seen season 3 and beyond, but it's clear the OP
| blogger agrees:
|
| > The best thing the show's writers ever did was realize that
| Joe wasn't the most interesting character.
|
| Like, Lee is a good actor for sure, he was just given a poorly
| story crafted role.
| tptacek wrote:
| His character makes _much_ more sense in later seasons.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| "... what he's pretending to do on screen"
|
| I remember seeing this discussed around the show _The Marvelous
| Mrs Maisel_ , which is about a midcentury NYC divorcee getting
| into the world of stand up comedy. Overall it works and is a
| funny and enjoyable show, but there's definitely some of the
| standup routines depicted on-screen that are not actually as
| funny as the baked-in audience laughs might indicate. Because
| yeah... you can't really fake delivering good standup, even
| with a whole writer's room preparing the jokes and all the
| editing magic in the world, you still have to actually stand
| there and tell them in a funny way. That part can't be faked.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Hacks does it fairly well, or it may just be jean smart
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| It never occurred to me that the jokes were oversold. I think
| the show is genuinely funny, with a very high batting
| average. Easily one of the funniest shows on television.
|
| I sure do miss 'Mrs. Maisel'. What a stellar series.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| I think I really loved _Barry_ for exactly the opposite of
| this reason. Seeing a truly great actor play a bad actor was
| both impressive and hilarious at the same time.
| pchristensen wrote:
| A stand up audience from the 1950s shouldn't be reacting to
| jokes the same way a 2020s audience would.
| loevborg wrote:
| If you like Lee Pace, check out The Fall (2006). It's my
| favorite film, incredibly ambitious and funny and yet virtually
| unknown to the public. Lee's performance is incredible, as is
| his young co-star's.
| sgt wrote:
| I'll give that a shot. Found it it on torrent already.
| croon wrote:
| Yeah, it's somewhat splintered in that you're unsure what
| movie you're watching between different parts, but I have a
| strong love for movies that dare, and that one certainly
| does.
|
| I'll also second your comment about the kid, which is one of
| the best child performances I've seen.
| raffael_de wrote:
| I have Lee Pace on the radar since Singh's The Fall.
|
| Your assessment of movie magic is only partially correct.
| Obviously, a character has to be convincing by himself but the
| heavy lifting of the illusion is done by the peer characters
| acting as if they believe the role he plays.
|
| "The king is always played by the others"
|
| Not sure who is to credit for this quote but in my opinion it
| is one of the most important insights to understand how movies
| work and also why movie characters are never relevant role
| models.
| mdemare wrote:
| Often in movies you have the scrappy character that rises to
| the occasion by making a great speech, winning everybody
| over. I used to love those scenes.
|
| Now, I've realized, in real life they wouldn't have let them
| finish their first sentence.
| raffael_de wrote:
| stuff like this. if i enjoy a movie but the script simply
| doesn't check out from a rational perspective (plot holes,
| implausible behavior, inconsistencies etc.) then i
| sometimes decide to switch to a fairy tale mental mode
| where those issues are excused magically. only works with
| some movies. kingdom of heaven comes to mind.
| DevDesmond wrote:
| Project: Hail Mary, a fantasy world where geopolitics are
| trivially simple and every state in the world
| collectively agrees how great it would be to cede power
| and work together. (And therefore enable a genuinely fun
| and amazing science story which was the actual focus of
| the book to begin with, 10/10).
| telesilla wrote:
| He's also extraordinary in Apple's Foundation, some say he
| carries the show. I treasure The Fall and every frame of it,
| in this he's uniquely blended with other great actors and
| images.
| raffael_de wrote:
| Apparently part of The Fall's magic stems from the fact
| that the girl playing Alexandria (Catinca Untaru) somehow
| didn't really understand that she was playing in a movie.
| The director, as well as Pace, received some criticism for
| this manipulation. She also didn't really continue acting
| afterwards.
|
| https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1942458/
| rbanffy wrote:
| Last season's Brother Dude was awesome. I really felt sad
| for him. I have to say, however, my tolerance for
| manipulative sociopaths is very low - I'd totally punch
| McMillen in the face.
|
| I was only aware of The Fall for its brilliant photography.
| raffael_de wrote:
| The Fall is a great movie but still more style than
| substance imo.
| rbanffy wrote:
| It's forgivable, as long as it has A LOT of style.
| anon84873628 wrote:
| IMO the plot of Apple's "The Foundation" is an infuriating
| insult to the original series. However, the production is
| great and Lee Pace is awesome as usual.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| I kind of love it when movies/TV don't follow the books
| too closely. It means more content in a world I enjoy
| without repeating too much.
| b112 wrote:
| I generally agree, and also that it's impossible to take
| a book to video without change. I tend to try to think of
| it like this, imagine Bob and Jim watched a battle scene,
| but one from the west, the other from the east side. Bob
| wrote the book, Jim the movie.
|
| Naturally, although it was the same battle, they'll have
| seen different things up close, and have different views
| on the battle overall.
|
| Having said that...
|
| It's like someone wrote the Foundation movie three
| generations after the book was written, turned into a
| play, and then told over the campfire for decades.
|
| It literally has no more connection with Asimov's works,
| than Star Wars is like Star Trek. All of the technology
| is different, the size of the Empire is wildly different,
| literally almost nothing maps.
|
| Is it good? Yes, sorta. But it's not Foundation, by any
| stretch. It's not even remotely in the same "world".
| jjk166 wrote:
| I think it's best appreciated as an original space opera
| that just happens to have the same name, especially given
| that so much of the show is genuinely original.
| nobleach wrote:
| Even though Pushing Daisies ended too abruptly, I thought he
| was GREAT in that series as well.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I got really disappointed at the mainframe booting into PC-DOS
| with a CGA font on a 3278 terminal. The show made such an
| impeccable job at rebuilding the 3033 CPU and the 3278 terminal
| just to make such a horrible job depicting its boot process. A
| VM/SE banner or an MVS login screen would have been sufficient
| (if inaccurate, if we are looking at the operator console). Did
| the research point out mainframes don't run PC operating
| systems?
| georgeecollins wrote:
| Great show! Toby Huss is also good as the guy you
| underestimate. He had a great scene in Weapons last year.
|
| Scoot McNary is good in lots of things-- Monsters is a
| favorite. Mackenzie Davis in Station 11!
|
| Viewers may have missed the show but casting agents didn't.
| bahmboo wrote:
| Maybe I should watch a full episode but this clip doesn't sell
| -me- on it. Heavy handed and a bit phony. Great talent in these
| scenes, not directed or crafted for my tastes. I'm saying my
| feelings not downvoting!
| rurp wrote:
| Totally agree, he was incredibly good in that show.
|
| He's also really great in the show Foundation, with a pretty
| different role. I watched Foundation much more recently and it
| took me a while to realize it was the same actor from Halt.
| jrmg wrote:
| It was easy to dismiss the show at the time because, though
| Pace's performance was great from the beginning, it felt like
| he was a Temu Don Draper in an 80s Mad Men wannabe with 'tech'
| replacing 'ads'.
|
| The show is not at all that if you stick with it for even a
| short while.
| leonflexo wrote:
| Great show and fantastic music. This show and Driver were two
| soundtracks that captured that early/mid 2010s vibe for me
| personally.
| seneca wrote:
| Absolutely. One of those shows where I went to check what the
| songs were playing in specific scene often, and ended up with
| lots of new tracks added to play lists. Whoever did their music
| selection was top notch.
| t1234s wrote:
| A great watch if you are nostalgic for the early BBS days or
| early WWW days. The post 2000 generation may not get it.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| The first seasons were excellent, the latter seasons not so much.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Objectively it was consistently good but not great.
|
| https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/halt-and-catch-fire-rati...
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| The first season was the best season, and it's probably a
| good stopping point.
| chucksmash wrote:
| Interesting. Different strokes I suppose. I loved this show but
| in the beginning they put too much emphasis on Lee Pace's
| character for my taste. Just kind of "ooooh, what will the
| brooding. mysterious maverick in a suit with a dark past do
| next? So unpredictable" and it didn't really resonate with me
| like the later seasons did.
|
| In the same way that the beginning of Parks and Rec feels like
| they were setting out to make a version of The Office before it
| really became its own thing, the first season of HaCF felt like
| "what if we had a Don Draper type but instead it was Texas in
| the 80s?"
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| The latter seasons have memorable thought-provoking moments
| but they are sparse.
|
| They could have compressed those into fewer episodes and it
| would have been more watchable.
| tsunamifury wrote:
| You must be young.
| tptacek wrote:
| Seasons 3 and 4 did a really good job of capturing what it was
| like being in the industry and in SFBA in the mid/late 1990s,
| better than anything I've seen. I worked at McAfee (then NETA)
| at the time and the MCAF-ish stuff was uncanny; the last gasp
| of cubicle culture in the software product industry.
|
| I liked the storytelling in it, but, like I said earlier, it's
| pretty Six Feet Under-ish, in that as it progresses it is less
| and less about the original concept of the show and more about
| the relationships between characters built up over years of
| episodes. Whether that's a good or bad thing for you depends in
| part on how much fan service you want; it's why I find Mr.
| Robot completely unwatchable.
| TurdF3rguson wrote:
| Except that Mr Robot was always planned that way, you can go
| back and see references to what's revealed in the final
| episodes as early as the pilot. Things are revealed at the
| end of S1 that make you have to re-evaluate what you've seen
| so far. The same is probably even more true for S4.
|
| Maybe that's a challenge for the audience to stay with it,
| but it's definitely worth it for the payoff.
|
| And those s04 episode titles matching http error codes? That
| might be the most masterful thing I've ever seen pulled off
| from a TV show.
| protocolture wrote:
| I really love season 1, because of its specific technical
| detail.
|
| But the other seasons were great in their own ways too. Random
| PC revolution personalities showing up in dotcom startups was
| both disjointed and inspired.
| colinmegill wrote:
| So good
| JSR_FDED wrote:
| This series is great at multiple levels:
|
| - the archetype characters and their motivations to do what they
| do (100% valid today)
|
| - struggles and exhilaration of startups
|
| - as a pseudo-documentary of the early years of personal
| computing
|
| Highly recommend it!
| dvrp wrote:
| It's great but it ain't no Mr. Robot.
| Sebguer wrote:
| One is a deeply human drama, the other is a spy thriller. Not
| sure why you'd even make the comparison.
| TurdF3rguson wrote:
| I'm assuming Mr Robot is the spy thriller? It feels like more
| of a deeply human drama to me.
| Sebguer wrote:
| You have a very different perception of 'human' than I do!
| TurdF3rguson wrote:
| The main character suffers from DID. From trauma that
| happened when he was little. Maybe you didn't watch the
| whole thing, that seems pretty "human drama"-ey to me.
| chucksmash wrote:
| They ran contemporaneously and tended to come up on the same
| lunch table conversations.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I couldn't get past all the drug scenes in Mr Robot.
| justin66 wrote:
| It didn't peak before the end of season one?
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Fantastic show! Just wrote an analysis of the conflicts between
| the characters and how every disagreement turns into a zero sum
| game:
|
| https://gilpignol.substack.com/p/halt-and-catch-fire-the-tra...
| IBCNU wrote:
| love how deep you go
| airstrike wrote:
| it's slop
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Sorry you didn't like it. I can assure you it describes
| real battle scars from startups. Good luck with inboard!
| airstrike wrote:
| It's got nothing to do with liking it or not. This is
| ChatGPT:
|
| _> The masterpiece quality of Halt and Catch Fire lies
| in how precisely it shows the zero-sum reflex at work._
|
| _> Disagreement becomes disrespect._
|
| _> Respect becomes status._
|
| _> Status becomes survival._
|
| _> When Cameron's game doesn't align with business
| strategy, it isn't a tactical debate; it's an assault on
| her identity. When Joe pivots the company without
| consensus, he isn't merely decisive; he is declaring
| sovereignty. When Donna asserts operational control, it
| reads as treason to those who conflate ownership with
| authorship._
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Whether something sounds like a human, a book, or a
| language model doesn't really affect whether the behavior
| it describes exists.
|
| The claim is simple: in creative orgs, disagreements
| often escalate into identity conflicts because people map
| ideas to self-worth. Halt and Catch Fire portrays that
| escalation pretty clearly.
|
| If that doesn't resonate, what has your experience looked
| like instead?
| lkt wrote:
| Is it AI generated though?
| companycalls wrote:
| If the claim is simple, why didn't you just state that,
| what is the AI Generated nonsense prose adding to
| anything? Prompting an LLM with 'Write me an essay
| linking Halt and Catch Fire to the idea that in creative
| orgs disagreements often escalate into identity conflicts
| because people map ideas to self-worth.' then pasting
| that into a substack is low-effort slop, embarrassing to
| post; embarassing to read.
| elisahex wrote:
| The post is about people turning disagreement into a
| status fight. Your reply is mostly a status fight about
| the existence of the post. Kind of strengthens the
| thesis.
|
| You can debate the argument: what's embarrassing is
| feeling the need to announce to strangers that they're
| wrong on the internet.
| quesera wrote:
| > _Whether something sounds like a human, a book, or a
| language model doesn't really affect whether the behavior
| it describes exists._
|
| It matters.
|
| > _the hardest thing to scale is not software. It is
| trust._
|
| For example: Is this your sincerely held belief, the
| conclusion of all of the preceding words, and the point
| you were trying to express?
|
| Because it reads, superficially, like shallow self-help
| pablum.
|
| If you want your readers to differentiate these words
| from those words, you at least owe them the assurance
| that you've thought this through, and are willing to
| defend this idea.
|
| If this is your own idea, it might be worth some
| consideration beyond its superficial presentation. If
| this is the output of an LLM trained on shallow
| observations and presentation style, it is not worth
| consideration.
|
| Why, and for whom, do you publish?
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Thanks it's an attempt to describe interactions observed in
| startups, which the show portrays so well
| gnabgib wrote:
| Looks like @light_triad's blog.. new account?
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Indeed, not trying to circumvent your rules. Just want to
| contribute to the conversation. I just love this website.
| npunt wrote:
| Great read! Agree with the themes & tensions you identify.
| hola-tamale wrote:
| Thank you! It's difficult to convey an environment where
| everyone wants to be right instead of finding the right
| answer, while the company accelerates towards a wall
| brightball wrote:
| My dad kept trying to get me to watch this show and I never got
| around to it. Maybe I need to.
| dddw wrote:
| You wont regret it
| tptacek wrote:
| It's quite good, but it gets very Six Feet Under by the end, and
| you have to suspend a lot of disbelief about technology; it's a
| little like Hackers in the sense that it's trying to communicate
| a feeling about operating in specific eras of computing, but not
| so much trying to realistically depict what it was like.
|
| Christopher Cantwell, the showrunner, is also doing the new
| series of The Terror (aka North Pole Bear Show) that's premiering
| this year.
| tsunamifury wrote:
| Hard disagree. The number of micro details it got right was
| insane. You'd have to be pedantic to think otherwise.
|
| Right down to obscure LucasArts first online game.
| carlmr wrote:
| It's funny, I'd say the details are right, but the overall
| picture is still wrong.
|
| It tries to cram too many things into this one show. Like a
| medley of computing history.
| sirmarksalot wrote:
| Yeah, the the characters kind of feel like Doonesbury
| characters, where they just slot in wherever they're needed
| at a particular moment in history. Each season's story by
| itself feels authentic, but when you watch their character
| arcs from start to finish, each person involved would have
| to be a generational talent.
|
| And it's not like that kind of thing never happens, like
| look at General Magic and its through-lines through the
| tech industry up until 2015 or so, but it just happens too
| conveniently in the show. Particularly Bosworth's role
| seems far-fetched to me. He's already at the end of his
| career in season 1, and somehow he remains relevant through
| the internet age?
|
| The "Phoenix" monologue in the last episode evokes
| nostalgia for everything Donna and Cameron have been
| through, but it also breaks suspension of disbelief by
| pointing out just how much of history these two people have
| been involved with firsthand.
| cestith wrote:
| Take a look at the careers of Ken Thompson, Rob Pike,
| Brian Kernighan, Larry Wall, James Gosling, Kirk
| McCusick, Allen Holub, Al Aho, Marvin Minsky, Daniel
| Friedman, Gerald Sussman, Lance Leventhal, John Carmack,
| John Romero, Paul Graham, Guy Steele, Christopher Date,
| Bill Joy, Eric Raymond, Douglas Comer, Andrew Tanenbaum,
| David Patterson, Jeffrey Ullman, Fred Brooks, or Jim
| Keller.
| aqme28 wrote:
| A new The Terror? The one that came out some years ago was
| incredible, and very under-discussed I think.
| zerocrates wrote:
| The first one, the one based on the book, was great and did
| fly a good deal under the radar. But definitely one of those
| ones with a core fanbase that evangelized for it and good
| critical notices. Elsewhere in this discussion Jared Harris's
| role in Foundation has been mentioned; he's a major,
| consistent, and excellent fixture in The Terror.
|
| Since they used the book's story already, they made a turn
| for the series to be an anthology of loosely thematically-
| similar stories (think American Horror Story). The basic
| setting of season 2 is Japanese internment during World War
| II in America, and it's from different writers than the
| first, and of course isn't adapting the novel anymore. It was
| much less popular both in terms of viewers and critics.
|
| I'm a little surprised they think the brand still carries
| enough power to put another original story in there under its
| name for a season 3. It's also a bit of a double-edged sword:
| you do get name recognition and some built-in initial
| audience, but you're also taking on expectations and baggage
| from the original. This is a factor in season 2's tepid
| reception, and there have been other similar attempts to
| slide something unrelated in under an existing banner that
| backfired: True Detective Night Country comes to mind.
| kgwxd wrote:
| By the end, the tech is just a plot device. The thing that gets
| us to the thing.
| vidarh wrote:
| I think the problem is that you can't really communicate that
| feeling without taking a lot of liberties, because it will seem
| boring and tedious to those not as invested, because it's hard
| to convey the excitement of a little box that can hold a small
| number of page-equivalents of text to someone who didn't know
| what it was like _before_.
|
| I was a child during the early parts of that era, and so for
| that part I got most from reading books and seeing the public
| announcements, but I started my first company during the era
| depicted towards the end - an ISP - and I feel they got that
| balance roughly right.
|
| But, sure, there were annoying deviation that is obvious to
| those of us who know how things happened. I don't think that
| was avoidable.
| DrFunke wrote:
| Season 1 was wonderful. The showrunner had initially written the
| pilot to get a job on Mad Men. It was eviscerated by critics for
| being too male, too masculine and seasons 2 onward pivoted into a
| girlboss series with Lee Pace's character taking a backseat and
| Scooter's character becoming a stay at home house husband. But if
| you like Breaking Bad and Sopranos, S1 is very well written.
| wmf wrote:
| I always thought Joe MacMillan was Don Draper with a little
| Steve Jobs so that explains it.
| seneca wrote:
| Strongly agree that Season 1 was by far the best, and the rest
| suffered for the changes.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| S2 had a far more memorable depiction of hacker startups as we
| know it.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJN2JN3_N_4
| etchalon wrote:
| Season 1 was just Mad Men but computers.
|
| Seasons 2 through 4 were vastly more interesting. We've seen
| Joel a hundred times. Donna and Cameron and Gordon felt less
| worn, and Donna and Cameron's relationship vastly more
| interesting than Gordon (the skeptic) and Joel (the believer!)
| in Season 1.
|
| If you prefer "great men" stuff, I can see preferring Season 1.
|
| But it's not exactly a story you can't watch elsewhere.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| I've heard of Season 1 described as "Don Draper teaming up
| with Walter White", which makes it sound far more juicy than
| it is. The entire show gets way into the melodrama of the
| characters' personal lives, but S1 is no better than the rest
| in terms of that; it's strongest when the personal melodrama
| is rooted in the tech, like Joe's self-sabotage of their
| COMDEX demo followed by the fateful realization in the hotel
| room of their doom. There's a really great article in
| Grantland about HCF, Silicon Valley, and _Microserfs_ by
| Douglas Coupland which points out that these characters are
| not great men, because they are but footnotes of history:
|
| > The story twists again: Joe loses his nerve. The Giant goes
| to market as a regular old fast/cheap PC. Then, in a Comdex
| hotel room darkened as if for a seance, Joe comes face-to-
| face with his first Macintosh, and realizes he's made the
| wrong call: "It _speaks_ ," he says, his voice full of wonder
| and dread. We realize we've spent the better part of a season
| watching these characters _fail_ -- that Gordon and Joe
| aren't going to become the Jobs and Wozniak of this world
| because _Jobs and Wozniak_ are the Jobs and Wozniak of this
| world.
|
| https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/silicon-valley-
| ha...
|
| Cameron is just sort of an unstable tortured genius with a
| lot of baggage, and while Donna ends up being the responsible
| "den mother", it is really far from girlbossing, and rather
| trivializes those seasons and the characters to put it in
| such a way. And Joe does not take a backseat at all! He ends
| up being the main foil for most of the show, which is a
| really interesting turn for the character!
|
| I do think Gordon gets sidelined (with a debilitating
| disease, no less!) far too easily. But then he's also sort of
| doomed to be a footnote, his fate is just all the more tragic
| for it.
| etchalon wrote:
| There just wasn't much for Gordon. He existed as a foil, or
| a mirror, for the other, richer characters.
|
| I get why the writers ended up just sort of shrugging their
| shoulders and excluding him so often.
| vesrah wrote:
| This is one of those shows I've had in the rolling background
| rewatch queue for years, I love it and I try to recommend it to
| as many people as possible. Flawed, yes, but still special.
| IBCNU wrote:
| I like how in the fourth season, the computer props are
| literally just cardboard boxes.
|
| I like literally love it, not ironically, it makes it more like
| a stage play.
|
| Feel like the flaws are what makes it special. I don't want
| Kubrick for a tv show about BBS'
| dzink wrote:
| Yes, hands down the best show! They need to do more seasons,
| especially with modern day problems.
|
| Other thoughtful and well made shows: Dark Matter, For All
| Mankind, Foundation (also Lee Pace and also stellar).
| hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
| > They need to do more seasons, especially with modern day
| problems.
|
| Silicon Valley, the insanity that it's both a comedy and true
| to life
| airstrike wrote:
| I think you might enjoy Travelers
| bane wrote:
| It starts as a kind of okay near-real alternate history of early
| computing in the Silicon Prairie, and ends with some really
| powerful storytelling about the fragility of humanity.
|
| Totally worth a watch.
| 3abiton wrote:
| It captured a bit the feeling of being at the start of the
| computer boom in 60s-70s. The partnernship between the 2 male
| protagonists was central till the end of show (evolving through
| different phases). The show was great, it went in very
| unexpected directions later on.
| ppcdeveloper wrote:
| This is on my bucket list to finish. Watched one or two episodes
| and it reminded me of a dead serious Silicon Valley.
| don_neufeld wrote:
| One of my all time favorite series - add my upvote to the pile!
| donatj wrote:
| I genuinely enjoyed it and do recommend. As another commenter
| mentioned, Lee Pace's performance is stand out.
|
| My only real critique is that it has the same problem as Mr.
| Robot. The writers and script are clearly very tech-literate, but
| the spoken lines are stilted and awkwardly delivered with odd
| intonation because the actors clearly have no understanding of
| what the words they're saying mean.
| ghaff wrote:
| I really liked it. Though I was sort of expecting an
| alternative Mac history at the time. Good Comdex show vibe for
| the time though.
| h33t-l4x0r wrote:
| That's honestly an ridiculous criticism. The idea that a simple
| thing like intonation was not well considered in a show with
| that level of detail...
|
| You need to do yourself a favor and drop whatever you think you
| know and re-binge.
| afspear wrote:
| The opening of this show feels very relevant today.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucSUs3adMQ8
| caycecan wrote:
| One of the better CG title sequences. They don't belabour it,
| get the visual concept across and wham! Show starts.
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| Yeah. I'll watch it every time.
| seneca wrote:
| I thought Halt and Catch Fire was fairly well known, especially
| in the tech world.
|
| Season 1 was absolutely killer. I like that they tried to capture
| different eras per season, but subsequent seasons got
| progressively weaker.
|
| I still think Gordon's final scene is one of the best pieces of
| writing in TV drama history. Took my breath away the first time I
| saw it.
| segmondy wrote:
| It's fairly well known to some of us. It's one of the few shows
| I own DVDs of.
| whoisthemachine wrote:
| Where can one even find the seasons? I only found season 1 on
| Blu-ray.
| walterbell wrote:
| Apple TV,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47056314#47057601
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| How does it compare to The Americans?
| seneca wrote:
| They have essentially nothing in common, other than the fact
| that both rapidly degrade over the seasons and both are
| nostalgic looks back at recent eras of America.
| et-al wrote:
| _The Americans_ is an easier watch in general because of its
| themes, but _H+CF_ is worth viewing for anyone in tech.
|
| There's only four seasons and they're all solid.
| kqr2 wrote:
| Syllabus:
|
| https://bits.ashleyblewer.com/halt-and-catch-fire-syllabus/
| yogurtboy wrote:
| This is cool, are there similar things for other tv shows?
| TheAtomic wrote:
| LOVE H&CF, so good
| aresant wrote:
| It's a tech story wrapped in a soap opera wrapped in one of the
| all time finest soundtracks ever played by an incredible group of
| actors and written by artists - it is singular!
|
| PS - Christopher Cantwell - one of the writers and showrunners -
| has written a library of wonderful comic books worth
| investigating
|
| PPS - ATX TV did a 10 year anniversary interview with a handful
| of the cast and crew that's worth watching if you're a fan -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6L1suN-mGE
| AnishLaddha wrote:
| one of my favorite shows of all time!
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| The best. Not unheard of around here.
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45007414)
|
| This article? Not so much. Is OP one of the one's discovering it?
| nephihaha wrote:
| I've never heard of it, so maybe they're talking about me.
| (Joke.)
| durakot wrote:
| Yeah this is a gem of a show worth a rewatch every few years.
| Especially once it finds its legs after S1. Criminally
| underrated.
| tsunamifury wrote:
| The show captured the sublime transcendence of ambitious failure
| like no other form of art ever has.
|
| It is an all timer.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| Somewhat mysteriously, the Linux ISOs for this show have seen a
| sudden spike in activity.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Huge fan of the show, but I have no clue what you're referring
| to. Torrents of the DVDs or something like that?
| caycecan wrote:
| HACF is a goodie but there's a lot of great shows no one's heard
| of.
|
| In an effort to sing the song of underappreciated works of
| greatness...
|
| Patriot - a CIA hitman who writes folk songs about his exploits
| imdb.com/title/tt4687882/
|
| Counterpart - not a multiverse, just a biverse
| imdb.com/title/tt4643084/
|
| Scavengers Reign - Robinson Crusoe by way of a nature documentary
| of a very bizarre alien planet. imdb.com/title/tt21056886/
|
| Common Side Effects - cops, robbers, magic mushrooms, corporate
| bad guys and the cure for everything. imdb.com/title/tt28093628
|
| Evil - x-files meets Catholic mysticism.
| imdb.com/title/tt9055008/
|
| The Heat Vision and Jack pilot episode - Jack Black, Owen Wilson
| and a script by Dan Harmon.
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6lWgXDOAJ5s&pp=ygUUaGVhdCB2aXN...
| J_Shelby_J wrote:
| Scavengers reign is from the same people as common side
| effects. Both shows are amazing.
| caycecan wrote:
| Joe Bennet, right?
|
| https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4497617/?ref_=ext_shr
|
| I will binge anything he makes with the double bullseye of
| these shows
| consumer451 wrote:
| Scavengers Reign was easily my favorite sci-fi, in any media
| format, of the last decade+. So incredibly inventive with the
| alien biosphere.
| aa-jv wrote:
| Gotta add "Primal" to your list of must-watches ..
| latexr wrote:
| > Scavengers reign is from the same people as common side
| effects.
|
| In case it matters to someone, the order is reverse. As in,
| Scavengers Reign came before. Also, be aware it wasn't
| renewed for a second season. But it absolutely deserved it,
| just not enough people knew about it.
| john-tells-all wrote:
| Patriot is brilliant. Very surreal with pitch-black humor and
| rare horror. And piping! Lovely piping.
| bubblewand wrote:
| I have seen two of your five shows and like them a lot, and
| heard of another and it's already on my to-watch list. This is
| enough overlap to get the other ones added to the list (plus
| that pilot).
|
| Given the agreement in taste so far, here's a couple to try if
| you haven't:
|
| - Sweet Vicious -- marred by getting cancelled after one
| season, but a fun season anyway. College sexual assault
| survivor becomes an anti-rapist vigilante. It's, uh... more
| light-hearted than the premise sounds?
|
| - Review with Forrest MacNeil -- A guy has a review show where
| he attempts to review... life. Takes viewer requests for what
| specifically to review in each episode. He takes his job very
| seriously. Avoid seeing episode counts if at all possible.
| Trust me on that part. Doesn't ruin it if you do see them, but
| being blind to that does improve it.
|
| Another that I'm not sure counts as under-watched as it's more
| recent, but I rarely see it discussed in the wild: Dickinson, a
| magical realism biographical show about the poet, that mixes in
| humor and some modern pop culture (think: A Knight's Tale).
| caycecan wrote:
| Adding yours to mine as well
| skerit wrote:
| > Avoid seeing episode counts if at all possible
|
| I don't understand. How would knowing how many episodes there
| are have an impact on the show? (And the number of episodes
| seems just... fine?)
| abustamam wrote:
| My understanding was that if you know you're on the last
| episode then you'll expect things to be resolved or
| something like that. Similarly, you probably don't expect
| any twists on the second episode.
|
| I've not heard of the series so I can't comment on it
| specifically but that was my take on their warning.
| bubblewand wrote:
| Rot-13 explanation:
|
| Gur frevrf unf cbvagf vg zvtug raq, ohg qbrfa'g, naq gura
| _qbrf_ noehcgyl raq abg irel sne vagb vgf ynfg frnfba.
| Gurer 'f n yvggyr rkgen wbl gb or unq vs lbh qba'g xabj
| dhvgr jura vg jvyy or bire (frrvat gur rcvfbqr pbhag ba
| gung ynfg frnfba, va cnegvphyne, fcbvyf gung). Vg'f abg
| yvxr gung ehvaf gur fubj be nalguvat, ohg vg'f n yvggyr
| orggre vs lbh pna znantr gb erznva oyvaq gb vg.
| klausa wrote:
| The showrunner/creator of Patriot has a new show launching in a
| couple of weeks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTF_St._Louis
| caycecan wrote:
| He has something to do with this show as well which was
| obtuse enough to keep me at a distance. It's an unhinged,
| detective story with puppets in a noir-laden city grit
| setting.
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13148384/?ref_=ext_shr
| tptacek wrote:
| Steven Conrad also did Perpetual Grace Ltd (he also wrote the
| screenplay for Pursuit of Happyness, which is the scariest
| movie I've ever seen).
| klausa wrote:
| I need to get around to Perpetual Grace; I've watched the
| first 15 minutes of it like four times and always ended up
| bouncing off of it for one reason or another; but I know if
| I got into it, I'd probably really dig it.
| tptacek wrote:
| Same!
|
| Funny thing about watching Patriot for the first time: my
| sister in law showed up on it. We had no idea. Just all
| the sudden there she is on my TV. She's the mute cop,
| Sophie.
| caycecan wrote:
| I tried Perpetual Grace and didn't get it. If it's a 4th-
| episode-it-gets-good show I'll dive back in.
| onionisafruit wrote:
| If the first episode doesn't draw you in, it's probably
| not your kind of show. I'm not saying episode 1 is all it
| has to offer, but if you don't enjoy episode 1 it's
| doubtful you will enjoy the rest.
| tptacek wrote:
| Patriot is amazing, more people should watch it, everyone I
| know who has was enthralled by it.
|
| Counterpart was great but structure made it hard for to watch
| knowing it'd been cancelled.
|
| Scavengers Reign was great; I couldn't get into Common Side
| Effects.
|
| Evil is _exactly_ the Catholic X-Files, which is an amazing
| concept, but by the end of the 2nd season it is all the way off
| the rails and hurtling into a canyon.
|
| Given your list, you might dig Lodge 49, which is somewhere in
| the intersection of HACF, Evil, The Big Lebowski.
| caycecan wrote:
| Adding it as well
| caycecan wrote:
| Evil got cancelled with a 6 episode finish, which is
| unheard of when making TV. It wanders around, and has
| highlights in each season. The x-files got real sloppy near
| the end too.
|
| Also in the running for great title sequences as well
| skerit wrote:
| Oh, so does "Counterpart" not have an ending?
| jclulow wrote:
| It does actually wrap up well enough I reckon. It's not
| really a cliffhanger or whatever.
| robot_jesus wrote:
| Patriot is my single favorite show of all time. I absolutely
| adore it and every preposterous, absurd line.
|
| So many quotable moments. Vantasner Danger Meridian.
| Structural Dynamics of Flow. The attache badge.
|
| So many phenomenal scenes. I'm not surprised it didn't get
| more traction with the general public but it was unafraid to
| take some serious and weird risks. But they pay off in spades
| for me!
| redhale wrote:
| Are you me? Patriot is amazing and I will never stop
| recommending it no matter how many dumbfounded looks I get.
|
| I have a framed "Structural Dynamics of Flow" poster on my
| wall in my home office, visible on Teams calls. Only 1
| person has ever recognized the reference.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| gosh, the scene where he stumbles into the lecture hall,
| almost late, and then delivers a flawless retro-
| encapulator-esque pitch... that had me giddy.
| mietek wrote:
| The preposterously long rock-paper-scissors scene had me
| laughing tears.
| tptacek wrote:
| Then, of course, you've seen L.G. Claret's website!
| sph wrote:
| If you like Patriot, you might enjoy Mr Inbetween. It's one
| of my favourite shows ever. Different story, same level of
| dark comedy, with a heaping dose of Aussie humour.
|
| If you want something more American, the show for you is
| Barry.
| evanelias wrote:
| > So many quotable moments. Vantasner Danger Meridian.
| Structural Dynamics of Flow. The attache badge.
|
| My friends and I have found that Patriot phrases make
| excellent team names in pub trivia, even if no other teams
| get the references. (Also "double great", "disgraced
| veterinarians", "pin-flam-fastened pan traps", more I'm
| forgetting... clearly I need to rewatch the show yet
| again!)
|
| > I'm not surprised it didn't get more traction with the
| general public
|
| I suspect the show would have had a larger audience if it
| had a better title. That seems to be an instant negative
| whenever I try recommending it to someone. Hopefully Steven
| Conrad's new hbo show will raise his profile enough to let
| more people rediscover Patriot. It's an absolute gem.
| ajcp wrote:
| While it has many many amazing scenes, I think Patriot's
| "cover" of the Rockwell Retro Encabulator is absolutely top
| notch.
|
| https://youtu.be/FFK7RHYdWCc?si=w8R0eO6W3uGgXt3R
| _boffin_ wrote:
| - secret city
|
| - Black Earth Rising
|
| - Pine Gap
| kgwxd wrote:
| Station Eleven. Wouldn't have made it past a few episodes if I
| didn't know how good Mackenzie Davis was from watching HCF 1000
| times. I stuck through a few things I didn't care for at first,
| now it will probably remain my favorite show of all time.
| jackp96 wrote:
| Station Eleven is so beautiful and human. Great pick. Highly
| recommend The Leftovers if you liked that one. Its
| exploration of life and grief and humanity following a
| secular rapture is stunning, and the performances are
| outstanding.
| kgwxd wrote:
| I have (re)watched everything Patrick Somerville has worked
| on because of Station Eleven :) I rewatched The Leftovers
| last month. Maniac last week (this time I noticed a funny
| reference by Sally Field's character pitching something on
| the phone about a guy with special hugging powers).
|
| None of that was my type of thing before, now it's all I
| want. I think the genre might be called absurdist fiction,
| but I'm not sure that covers the full vibe.
|
| Dan Romer is an excellent composer too, I listen to his
| stuff a lot. I have the Station Eleven soundtrack in my
| car, now my kid randomly sings Wandering Under The Moon,
| and it's one of my favorite things in the world.
| latexr wrote:
| > Scavengers Reign
|
| For those curious, start by watching the 8 minute short which
| originated it all. If it hooks you, you'll love the show.
|
| https://vimeo.com/179779722
|
| But be aware the show wasn't renewed for a second season. Not
| enough people knew about it.
| m_gloeckl wrote:
| I've heard about the show on an episode of the podcast
| "Endless Thread", where the creator Joseph Bennett talked
| about how the show came to be and how his creative process
| worked.
|
| It was very intriguing and I started watching it on the same
| day. This would have really deserved a renewal for another
| season, but sadly it got cancelled.
| latexr wrote:
| > an episode of the podcast
|
| Mind sharing a link? I found the podcast but not the
| episode.
| 542354234235 wrote:
| One of the few sci fi shows that makes an alien world truly
| feel alien. Where it clearly has its own evolution,
| ecosystems, rules, etc., but they are so... alien that it is
| barely comprehensible to the characters and audience.
| hackeraccount wrote:
| I watched the first episode or so and that was it for me. I
| don't remember it being super grim but it was too depressing
| and ominous for me.
| losthobbies wrote:
| Rubicon I always add Rubicon to these types of lists. Amazing
| spy series.
| audeyisaacs wrote:
| Rubicon is excellent. I was disappointed at the time it only
| got one season, but in retrospect it worked out okay because
| it's one season done very very well.
| Markoff wrote:
| great recommndations, Patriot is amazing dark comedy with great
| atmosphere, SR is great semi-documentary about alien planet
| ecosystem, very peaceful, didn't like CSE and Counterpart
| though
|
| I would suggest also Devs just for the visuals and Tales from
| the Loop for the most peaceful TV show I've ever seen
| bwv848 wrote:
| HACF only has four seasons, but it features great character
| arcs and a beautiful ending. I don't think it's on the level of
| The Wire, but it's way more than enough to stand apart.
| HelloUsername wrote:
| Task (2025)?
| alsetmusic wrote:
| Counterpart is one of the best shows I've seen. JK Simmons is
| brilliant playing two roles. I can't imagine anyone doing a
| better job.
| billbrown wrote:
| I'll second Patriot and add Perpetual Grace Ltd. from the same
| creator.
|
| I'd also add the two other legs of the Lee Pace Great
| Television stool: Wonderfalls and Pushing Daisies.
| billbrown wrote:
| Also, if you loved Patriot, the creator has two podcasts
| stemming from it:
|
| https://www.lgclaret.com/
|
| https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-techniques-in-mode...
|
| (And he's also done two bands: The Jones Sisters and Hoist the
| King.)
| goryramsy wrote:
| I like this list, thank you!
| talkingtab wrote:
| Absolutely. If you weren't there for it, watch this. If you
| really want to understand AI, here it is. Hilarious. "Nobody ever
| got fired for AI".
| CSMastermind wrote:
| Look I love the show but it does feel like a missed opportunity
| in a lot of ways. In order to get more moments in the story
| itself took a backseat. Lots of cool moments if you love tech
| history but as a stand alone drama it was kind of a let down.
| chrisstanchak wrote:
| I have the Cardiff Giant. Like the actual computer from the show.
| chrisstanchak wrote:
| I have the actual 'Cardiff Giant' laptop from the show. Got it in
| LA at a prop auction. Should I do a YouTube?
| etchalon wrote:
| YES! NOW!
| mikestorrent wrote:
| That's absolutely bitchun. You should definitely do so. What's
| actually in there? Ideally you'd have it done up as a set piece
| and mock up a connection to Mutiny on there ;)
| caycecan wrote:
| This is cool.
| kgwxd wrote:
| when... how... who... how do i follow you so i don't miss it?!
| Nevermark wrote:
| Uh, no. You should do another auction. :)
| aa-jv wrote:
| That ranks up there with the Oric Atmos from The IT Crowd as
| one of the most intriguing nerd props around ..
| beart wrote:
| I've heard many great things but have not been able to make it
| past the classroom scene in the first episode. I love both of the
| actors in other media, but I find the dialogue in these opening
| scenes makes me feel..embarrassed? I have similar feelings about
| other shows and movies at times where I just have to turn them
| off because of the way the characters are behaving. I think it
| just ties directly into some anxiety I have.
| mikestorrent wrote:
| Consider just fast-forwarding past a scene you can't handle.
| Like many shows, it takes a few episodes before the actors
| truly understand their characters.
|
| The feeling you're experiencing has a name: it's called
| "cringe". I can't watch Frasier for more than about half an
| episode because of it. Or I Love Lucy... same problem. But
| Seinfeld, which has plenty of the same humour mechanic, always
| seems to manage to stay just below the threshold for me.
|
| Halt and Catch Fire is really, _really_ good. Please trust us.
| Give it another shot. Skip forward a bit when you feel the need
| to. Skip the first episode entirely and just read a synopsis if
| you need to.
| dakolli wrote:
| Idk man, the entire second season gives me that feeling of
| embarrassment, I couldn't finish the show. The first season
| was alright, but honestly the second season is some of the
| cheesiest/worst storytelling/acting I've ever seen.
| mikestorrent wrote:
| Interesting how this thread has people saying they love the
| acting and people saying they hate it. I can't say as I
| found the acting itself to be amazing outside of a few
| scenes, but I never found it cringe enough to not want to
| see more. It'd be cool to understand more about what
| triggers this differently for different folks.
|
| A related thing I find difficult to watch is when
| characters are in impending danger too often. Breaking Bad,
| for instance, was a bit hard for me to get into because of
| the continual tension and risk of everything going
| sideways. I managed to watch it anyway and am glad of it,
| but definitely found Better Call Saul to be a more
| pleasurable watch.
| dakolli wrote:
| It might be more of an issue with the story telling than
| the actors performance themselves. For instance the
| changes in Joe and Gordon's characters was confusing.
| Gordon goes from being shy nerd to reckless coke addict,
| like huh.. Joe kinda becomes a new age softy. The hacker
| house vibes were off, a bunch of 20-30 year old playing
| tag and having nerf gun wars.. okay, I guess. Its just
| very hard to suspend belief and get into the story. As
| someone else mentioned, it gives off Hackers vibes. It
| feels like the writers weren't really familiar early tech
| and were just going off what they thought it would be
| like.
| snapetom wrote:
| We're in the minority, but I'm with you. It felt like in
| the first season, the tech and era took center stage to the
| point it was accurate enough to be an enjoyable element of
| the show. After that, they just wanted to rush and touch on
| different eras and the tech and eras were no longer the
| center stage. However, the stories were too cringey and
| couldn't carry it. And I'm just not a fan of Lee Pace. His
| deliver is one-dimensional.
| jll29 wrote:
| You and others are both right: the first season is better
| in the "tech authenticity" dimension but worse as a
| script (literary dimension); with seasons 2+3 it's the
| other way round.
| EPWN3D wrote:
| Had the exact same reaction to that exact scene. Just couldn't
| get past it. It wasn't as bad as when I tried to watch Big Bang
| Theory (which multiple people assured me that I'd love), but it
| was in that ballpark.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Cringe but persist. TV only has so much time to set stuff up.
| Think of those parts as a "tribute" to cheesy 80s movies.
| dakolli wrote:
| I just tried to watch this show because someone told me its the
| next best tech show after Silicon Valley, and the second season
| is by far some of the worst storytelling and acting I've ever
| seen on a screen, I don't think I'll be finishing the show. I
| really don't understand why people are so into it.
| johnnyfived wrote:
| The first season is pretty taut, then the follow-up seasons
| suffer from every character being at the center of every big
| thing in tech for narrative purposes, which is to its detriment
| imo.
| alt227 wrote:
| This is my opinion too. I loved the first season, but after
| that it felt silly making the same people invent basically
| everything in the computer world.
|
| However it seems most people liked it the other way around.
| shizzor wrote:
| Yeah, I don't get it either. I made it through the first season
| which was okay, but I couldn't get myself to finish the second
| one, it was just bad. It is supposed to improve towards the
| end, but that is just too much to endure.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| It's "Ready Player One" for people who think SV is the most
| important thing in the world. It's very shallow and mostly just
| shoutouts to early computing history trivia.
|
| It was engrossing as all hell, but it's one of the only shows I
| ever finished while really not liking it.
|
| It feels so fake, and tries to keep your attention with
| gimmicks and artificial drama. When things are working out,
| characters sabotage things purposely to add drama back, as if
| it can't possibly be dramatic to succeed. The show basically
| ends up being a group of 4 or 5 assholes being assholes to each
| other for no reason.
|
| No actually, 4 individuals are not solely responsible for 20
| years of early computing history and making that so is absurd
| and kills my suspension of disbelief.
|
| But it's short and self contained and there's enough character
| stuff to see that it's still worth experiencing.
|
| I don't know how people say it's like "Soul of a New Machine"
| by Tracey Kidder. I read that book and there's just nothing
| comparable in the show. Soul of a new machine was a wonderful
| journey that was full of real people and real experiences, and
| maybe the first season of HaCF was like the McDonalds version
| of that.
| Timothycquinn wrote:
| I learned of that from On the Metal podcast. Was a big favourite.
| Definitely a great watch.
| danielrmay wrote:
| My all-time favorite. Compaq had a compelling story, and I liked
| where the writers went after the first season.
| mikewarot wrote:
| I almost stopped at the first episode. I remember the IBM PC
| manuals, and the build in ROM Basic, they could have read the
| ROMs and dumped them to the printer in minutes, there wasn't any
| mystery to it.
|
| I'm glad I stuck with it though, the rest of the series was much,
| much better.
| rafacm wrote:
| "Computers aren't the thing. They're the thing that gets us to
| the thing." -- Joe MacMillan
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeY_5n75zPM
| kaizenb wrote:
| Yess! Fav quote from the series.
| autoexec wrote:
| > This piece contains spoilers for Halt and Catch Fire.
|
| I'm glad they put this at the top. I instantly closed the tab. On
| the off chance that the title is remotely true, I wouldn't want
| to have the show ruined for me before I even saw an episode.
|
| For others who have never heard of this show, here's a little I
| picked up from carefully scanning over the wikipedia page:
|
| It's a AMC period drama about the early days of PCs and the
| internet. It ran from June 1, 2014 - October 14, 2017, had four
| seasons, reviews are good (so it's not just this guy who liked
| it) and they got better as the show went on. Also "it was
| marketed as the first TV series to premiere on Tumblr and the
| first time AMC had partnered with a social media service to debut
| a new show." which is weird, but it does seem like it's worth
| checking out.
| rurban wrote:
| Then you are the only one who haven't watched it. Go watch it
| now! It's fantastic (at least the first Compaq seasons)
| abustamam wrote:
| I haven't watched it nor have I heard of it prior to this
| post, but based on the comments here, it seems like required
| watching for a techie! Adding it to the never ending list of
| things to watch :)
|
| (I also haven't seen Silicon Valley which, as I understand
| it, is simultaneously required watching and required
| avoidance for HN people...)
| block_dagger wrote:
| Loved this series, totally up HN's alley.
| ece wrote:
| I did look up the name when I watched the show. The characters
| and plot are the fictionalized early days of computing made
| entertaining. Definitely worth a watch.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(computing...
| zer0zzz wrote:
| I found the last season a little rushed...
| rerdavies wrote:
| As someone who lived through that era, I couldn't watch it. A
| deep sense of uncanny valley. The 97% that they got completely
| right was ruined by the 3% that that they got wildly wrong. Often
| senslessly so. Stuff that a technical consultant would have
| caught in an instant.
|
| I did rather enjoy the way that they captured the manic energy of
| the generation of dirtbag sales and marketing people that drove
| the PC industry in that era.
|
| What it missed, I though, is that it failed to capture the
| breathless sense of wonder at finding yourself at the center of
| an event around which the entire universe was going to pivot --
| something that was obviously going to change everything. That's
| what you lived if you worked on the technical side of the PC
| industry.
|
| Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine, however....
| walterbell wrote:
| Carl Ledbetter (one of three technical advisors) interview,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47056314#47057719
| shinycode wrote:
| It's very hard to capture everything in such an era. Maybe they
| made other choices that aligned with the fiction they were
| writing. It's not a documentary. And TV shows can't capture as
| much as books. The show successfully gives enough to people to
| haven't lived in that era. It's an amazing show.
| Nevermark wrote:
| I view any historically based show as an alternate history.
| Nothing good comes from expecting too much consistency with
| our reality.
|
| After all, if we could rewind those years, all that chaos
| would have all happened very differently. We canonize our own
| particular history too easily. Manifest destiny is not a real
| thing.
| latexr wrote:
| Exactly. Chernobyl is an amazing show too, even if Ulana
| Khomyuk is a composite character instead of a real historical
| person.
| snapetom wrote:
| I hear you. After the first season, the tech and industry was
| just a backdrop, and I couldn't get into because the rest of it
| was pretty weak.
|
| I had the same feeling but the opposite outcome with Silicon
| Valley. Growing up in Palo Alto, it took me a while to figure
| out if I was enjoying this show because it was genuinely funny
| or if it was just because it hit the absurdity of the time and
| place so well.
| vidarh wrote:
| I've only visited Palo Alto, but I recognised _way_ too many
| aspects of that series from various VC startups. Up to and
| including the startup I was apart of that had offices in a
| bedroom in a house in Atherton for a while, and the craziness
| around Techcrunch (which was incidentally started out of the
| bedroom next to "ours" in that house in Atherton).
| snapetom wrote:
| There is a scene in the first season where they're all on a
| bus and Gilfoyle sees a middle aged woman on a bike waiting
| for a light. The soliloquy was so random and not even
| funny, but fit so well. That woman was basically every
| middle aged woman neighbor of mine.
| clydethefrog wrote:
| I remember the writers of SV actually somehow had to tone
| down the ridiculousness of the SV setting. See this quote
| from The New Yorker [0]:
|
| >"His [Teller, working for Google] message was, 'We don't do
| stupid things here. We do things that actually are going to
| change the world, whether you choose to make fun of that or
| not.'
|
| >Teller ended the meeting by standing up in a huff, but his
| attempt at a dramatic exit was marred by the fact that he was
| wearing Rollerblades. He wobbled to the door in silence.
| "Then there was this awkward moment of him fumbling with his
| I.D. badge, trying to get the door to open," Kemper said. "It
| felt like it lasted an hour. We were all trying not to laugh.
| Even while it was happening, I knew we were all thinking the
| same thing: Can we use this?" In the end, the joke was deemed
| "too hacky to use on the show."
|
| [0] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-
| silicon-v...
| snapetom wrote:
| I not only 100% believe this, but I'm not sure I'd be able
| to muster a snicker at it due to all the similarly
| ridiculous things I've experienced.
| rkomorn wrote:
| I didn't like SV (the show) because it made me feel like I
| was going to work on Sunday night.
|
| I guess that's to its credit: it nailed the culture.
| haspok wrote:
| > ruined by the 3% that that they got wildly wrong.
|
| Please tell us about it! I always thought it's more of a 50-50
| (it's an American series anyway), but I was only a kid back
| then, so I would be very interested to hear your complaints!
| stevenwoo wrote:
| I lived through parts of the tech eras depicted and I thought
| it captured the culture of people really well. It would have
| been boring to get bogged down in the details of historical
| differences, I'm not expecting this to be a documentary. Many
| of the people I worked with referred to the mushroom farms
| referenced in Soul of a New Machine from first hand
| experience The show had to change things as the years passed
| on the show in order to have the same main cast of characters
| involved as technology changed. I read Soul of a New Machine
| recently and one really has to have the right mind set to
| appreciate it, there are a lot of very specific details to
| that time in Massachusetts, working for what feels like a
| small division of ponderous Data General, competing
| technically and politically with separate groups within Data
| General, where every main character is a man, almost
| incidentally competing with the other computer companies, it
| does convey the feeling of a startup within a bigger company,
| so I don't hold the book in nearly the same high regard as
| others.
| canucker2016 wrote:
| Not the original poster, but when I was re-watching the
| series I also checked the reddit postings for each episode I
| watched. One of the comments for the first episode mentioned
| how laborious they made the act of dumping the IBM PC BIOS
| contents.
|
| So in the first episode, Gordon Clark, the HW guy (played by
| Scoot McNairy) had to dump the contents of the IBM PC BIOS
| from the ROM chip.
|
| Gordon extracts the BIOS chip (an 8KB EPROM chip if you do a
| web search) and plugs it into a breadboard and proceeds to
| dump out each byte of the chip with Joe (Lee Pace) writing
| down the address and data at that particular address on a pad
| of paper.
|
| After writing the address and address contents for the first
| time, Joe asks Gordon how many times they have to do this
| procedure. Gordon replies 65536, which would imply a 64KB ROM
| chip - but the web search said the IBM PC used an 8KB EPROM
| for the BIOS.
|
| After more dreary, repetitive work, they accomplish the
| dumping and transcribing of the IBM PC BIOS in one weekend.
|
| But one could have used a short BASIC program to dump the IBM
| PC BIOS ROM - the IBM PC wasn't a locked down game console...
|
| For a legal clean-room implementation of the IBM PC BIOS, the
| actual contents of the IBM PC BIOS aren't needed.
|
| You need the specs for each BIOS function (input/output
| parameters and description of what the BIOS function does).
|
| The IBM PC Technical Reference Manual (which cost $99 back
| then) contains the BIOS assembly language listing.
|
| One would need to type up the lines that list the
| input/output requirements for each BIOS function and their
| purpose and they'd be half-way to a clean-room PC BIOS.
|
| But that'd be way less dramatic (and easier) than the way
| shown in the episode.
|
| see https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/112846/ha
| lt-...
| postexitus wrote:
| It is fiction. Not meant to be a documentary. You have
| liberties as an artist to tell a compelling story - and boy did
| they do it.
| fud101 wrote:
| Hm it's on amazon but you gotta pay for the secondary sub. Did
| look interesting but oh well.
| nephihaha wrote:
| Everything is like that on Prime. Makes me wonder what the
| point of a subscription is if you've got to pay for practically
| everything?
| kgwxd wrote:
| It's gotten so ridiculous, my wife was in tears trying to get
| at a show a few days ago and we have like all the
| subscriptions. Now that it's cross-services subs to services
| within subs, some hosted by the top level, some a separate
| app/site/login even though you signed up somewhere else, it's
| a friggin' nightmare!
| nephihaha wrote:
| It's a total mess. I pay a sub to gain access and not have
| adverts. Awful.
| CephalopodMD wrote:
| I remember a scene in this show which felt like many real
| meetings I've had in my life. The big hot shot CEO guy pulls
| everyone into a meeting to share his big idea. The idea? Let's
| sell a computer that's "twice the speed, half the price!"
|
| ...The engineer then rolls his eyes like "yeah no duh". If we
| could just magically do stuff like that, we would have done it
| already. Classic management thinking they have an original idea
| with no understanding of the engineering beneath it all. I
| thought they would just tell him off and that would be it. I
| really felt seen in that moment.
|
| The frustrating thing is, they then take pointy haired boss's
| idea seriously. The rest of the season is spent actually pursuing
| that dumb, dumb idea... This felt disrespectful, and I stopped
| watching.
| walterbell wrote:
| Carl Ledbetter interview (2024),
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-k8p0dbB4 Carl
| was a Technical Consultant across all four seasons of Halt and
| Catch Fire, providing industry insight and script review. Hear
| what he had to say about his experience on the show, a breakdown
| of specific scenes, and some of his favorite memories.
| gjkood wrote:
| One of the best shows I have ever watched. It evokes the early
| history (though fictional) of the personal computing revolution.
|
| The character of Cameron Howe resonated with me greatly.
|
| What a fantastic show.
| dzink wrote:
| Same here. Silicon Valley did a great disservice by not having
| a character like her. We are often invisible.
| joshuaheard wrote:
| Loved it! It was an effective blend of different tech origin
| stories. Lee Pace was also excellent in "Foundation".
| NL807 wrote:
| Season 1 was great. 2 is meh. 3 is probably the last one I'll
| watch, as I'm losing interest. The Joe MacMillan dude basically
| carries the show.
| ceramati wrote:
| I tried to get my (techie) gf at the time to watch it a few years
| back but she couldn't get past the Cameron x Joe relationship
| from the beginning episode, it icked her out. I've been keen for
| a rewatch and my wife might actually like it though so thanks for
| the reminder, I'll add it to the queue.
| yehat wrote:
| Netflix... thanks, I'll pass.
| kgwxd wrote:
| It's an AMC show. It's not currently even on Netflix as far as
| I can tell, at least in the US. _mullvad_ _cough_ _cough_
| _yarrr_.
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| Oh I've definitely heard of it. It's the Orange is the New Black
| for the HN adjacent crowd.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Never saw Orange is the New Black. Is it HCF for the prison
| adjacent crowd?
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| Uuuuh kinda? It's late '10's premium TV that's really more of
| a telenovela aimed for specific audience with a diminished
| level of self-awareness (not the one that's serving a
| sentence). HCF is kinda like that - very good if you're into
| the whole fantasy of tech entrepreneurship of the 80's/90's,
| but kinda corny when you think about it.
| arathis wrote:
| Sensational show
| spikepuppet wrote:
| Such a fantastic show, I re-watch this one constantly. Even did a
| re-watch from when they move to the Bay Area when I first moved
| out here!
| jesse_dot_id wrote:
| This is one of my favorite shows. I love it.
| weaksauce wrote:
| halt and catch fire is so good. one of the best things i've
| watched as a tv series.
| Nevermark wrote:
| I have been trying to find that opcode ever since I discovered
| the show. :)
| voidUpdate wrote:
| I started watching this and was genuinely interested, but I kinda
| got tired of all the drama around the stuff I actually found
| interesting. I know that for a general audience, you need to pad
| technical stuff with scenes of the tech screwing the business
| guy, but I just wanted the computers!
| tietjens wrote:
| Does the show change after season 1? I've heard it gets much
| better, but I had a hard time paying that upfront cost and
| stopped halfway through.
| timbit42 wrote:
| Yes, and yes.
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| I despised this show. The acting, writing and (probably)
| direction was poor at best and, as someone else here mentioned,
| it's like what some writer thought things were and not how they
| actually were.
|
| And please don't downvote my comment based on any political or
| social thoughts one might have. Based on the story line alone, I
| quit when, for no apparent reason, during a tense moment in the
| story, the lead sales guy has a kissing session with another guy.
| The lead guy isn't gay. I don't think the guy he kissed was gay.
| There is no reason given and none is forthcoming as to why all of
| a sudden he does this but it felt like another of many gimmicks
| to get people talking about the show rather than sticking to a
| story line.
| Kinrany wrote:
| The guy he kissed was gay, and immediately after Joe used it to
| sabotage the deal.
| CSSer wrote:
| You're making an odd request, but I'll bite because it seems
| sincere. I'm younger! I didn't live through the period, and I'm
| not a statistician, but I have to ask if this kind of
| representation is really a gimmick?
|
| For some, it's very meaningful. That character is bisexual, not
| gay, and it's pretty authentic representation. The reason why
| it's not so focused on is because people like this, especially
| at that time, often don't care much for labels. That scene you
| mention is with a closeted man. This is not unheard of. You may
| not have had this experience personally, but does that mean it
| didn't happen? The campy part? Okay. The show wasn't perfect.
| It did get canceled, after all. But it worries me that you
| singled this particular thing out because this is obviously a
| political topic, and you missed the fact that the scene did
| demonstrate some things about the character, like his
| recklessness, impulsiveness and opportunism.
|
| He complicated something that could've been simpler, and he did
| this because he had a hard time separating his personal
| thoughts and feelings from his work. This is a theme that plays
| out a lot in his interactions, and I wonder if your
| understandable discomfort and lack of familiarity with the
| other aspects of the scene colored your perception here.
| nephihaha wrote:
| "it's like what some writer thought things were and not how
| they actually were"
|
| Doesn't that refer to a lot of pop culture? I can remember the
| 1980s and my memories of that period rarely bear much
| resemblance to the TV/films I see nowadays set in that period.
| I don't think it's just my personal experience. It goes deeper
| than that because many of the writers can't remember it well,
| or at all. That said I think the author of "Ready Player One"
| could remember the 1980s, just not my 1980s.
| justin66 wrote:
| > Based on the story line alone, I quit when, for no apparent
| reason, during a tense moment in the story, the lead sales guy
| has a kissing session with another guy. The lead guy isn't gay.
| I don't think the guy he kissed was gay.
|
| 1. "Kissing session," "kissed," etc. Funny stuff. I hope you
| don't _really_ think they were just looking for wine when they
| were off camera.
|
| 2. He's bi. We meet an ex boyfriend in a later episode,
| although the fact of his _ahem_ "kissing session" would seem to
| be evidence enough.
|
| 3. The reason is obvious enough if you watch through the end of
| the dinner.
| jjk166 wrote:
| The lead guy is bisexual, and it is a very important part of
| his character throughout the story.
| seanhunter wrote:
| "Halt and catch fire" is an instruction in the ic10 programming
| language used by the player to build automations in the game
| "stationeers".
|
| https://stationeers-wiki.com/IC10/instructions#hcf
| eurleif wrote:
| It has much earlier origins:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(computing...
| seanhunter wrote:
| Oh I know. Just thought people might enjoy this in
| particular.
| mchinen wrote:
| I wrote a bit about how the kind of tech culture in HACF feels
| more relevant in light of the LLMs even 2 years back before I
| heard of mourning a craft. Here's an excerpt:
|
| One thing I liked about HACF is despite using a decent amount of
| technobable, it plausibly captures the approach and spirit of
| hacking and coding, like reverse engineering a memoryless chip by
| rigging up a hex LED system to read out the values for each of
| the 65536 inputs to a ROM.
|
| The expertise of the coders are demonstrated mainly by others
| admiring the structural complexity of their code as objects of
| beauty. This is something that feels extra nostalgic now.
|
| https://michaelchinen.com/2023/12/31/halt-and-catch-fire-pos...
| 0xCE0 wrote:
| Amazing, highly recommended. I have watched all seasons ~4 times.
| It has just some magical feeling, because tech is in the end
| about people and their interactions/dynamics.
| kaizenb wrote:
| For those who want to take a trip down memory lane about Cameron,
| here you go: http://www.thehoweofitall.com/
| jacobgorm wrote:
| The pilot episode was so lame I almost skipped this, but the rest
| is just stellar.
| Beestie wrote:
| I mistakenly posted that it's free on Samsung TV Plus. It isn't
| but you can watch it on Prime if you add AMC+. Sorry for the
| gaffe.
| sohrob wrote:
| Very underrated show and I hope your post gets more people to
| view it.
| rschachte wrote:
| Literally this is the best show I've ever seen. If I'm ever burnt
| out at work I rewatch it
| spants wrote:
| watched it many times - one of the best series on this subject.
| pythonbase wrote:
| Binge watched it. I think the first 2 seasons were great.
|
| Lee Pace did an awesome performance recently in Asimov's
| Foundation. Mackenzie Davis, another lead in the show,
| demonstrated good potential but she seems not to get much
| afterward (Terminator, Station 11 etc)
| kgwxd wrote:
| Station Eleven is, all around, the best thing ever created.
| Every aspect of it is perfect.
| betageek wrote:
| This is one of the vanishingly small instances of actually
| representing the tech industry well in media, even if there's a
| lot of exaggeration and they elide the boring stuff. There are so
| many scenes in that gave me deja vu. Everyone gets treated even
| handedly, no 2 dimensional heroes and villains, just a load of
| people trying to build something while their egos get in the way.
| I'd give it the highest recommendation possible, representation
| is important!
| jll29 wrote:
| "HCF": "In computer engineering, Halt and Catch
| Fire, known by the assembly language mnemonic HCF, is an idiom
| referring to a computer machine code instruction that causes the
| computer's central processing unit (CPU) to cease meaningful
| operation, typically requiring a restart of the computer. It
| originally referred to a fictitious instruction in IBM System/360
| computers (introduced in 1964), making a joke about its numerous
| non-obvious instruction mnemonics." (Source:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(computing)
|
| The series is a memorable instance of what any self-respecting
| geek ought to have watched. It's better than "Silicon Valley",
| although the latter has pulled one scientific stunt regarding
| scientific advisory that is unique in film.
|
| What other films/series are "must watch" material for geeks?
|
| - War Games
|
| - Silicon Valley
|
| - The Social Network
|
| - The Intern
|
| - Mr. Robot
|
| - Black Mirror
|
| - Hackers
|
| - 2001: A Space Odyssey
|
| - ...?
| elcapitan wrote:
| Sneakers
| Carstairs wrote:
| The net?
|
| I've not seen that since the 90s so it might not be a classic
| but if you've ever seen an unexpected pi symbol (look on the
| bottom right of old.reddit.com) in software then they're
| probably referencing that movie.
| cestith wrote:
| - Sneakers
|
| - Pirates of Silicon Valley
|
| - Snowden
|
| - The IT Crowd
|
| - Real Genius
|
| - The Great Hack
|
| - Virtuosity
|
| - The Conversation
|
| - Who Am I
|
| - Anon
|
| - Ghost in the Shell (Anime)
|
| - The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
|
| - The Accountant & The Accountant 2
|
| - Office Space
|
| - The Imitation Game
|
| - I Am Mother
|
| - Eye in the Sky
|
| - The Circle
|
| - 1984
|
| - Elysium
|
| - Minority Report
| Neil44 wrote:
| I really enjoyed that show. The last line of dialogue in the last
| episode is the same as the first line in the first episode IIRC.
| DanielBMarkham wrote:
| I just finished my third run through the series. There have been
| a lot of movies and shows about how tech "grew up" in the 80s and
| 90s, but this one feels closest to home for me. It was an
| incredible time to live through. Everybody was trying all kinds
| of stuff, fundamental stuff not stuff around the edges, and
| nobody knew what would hit and what wouldn't. Some kid in East
| Minnesota had the same shot as some guy in Stanford. There was
| very much a Wild West feel to it.
|
| With apologies for going all old-guy, today it seems that
| whatever you do, you end up in some walled garden along a pre-
| programmed path. Can you write an independent iOS app without
| spending a lot of time screwing around with Apple? I don't know.
| It does not look like a worthwhile thing to spend my time on.
|
| Everything you do today, it's like you automatically end up on
| some set of train tracks somebody else has made. Maybe they let
| your train run, maybe not. Maybe they like what you're doing and
| let your train run like the wind so that they can copy it all.
|
| HCF reminded me that there was a time before all of this. Good
| memories.
|
| Agentic coding may be an even bigger change, and it might kick
| off a new time like that. Too soon to tell. I sure hope so. I
| can't help but notice there are a lotta folks looking to get
| their hooks into the system.
| joenot443 wrote:
| > Can you write an independent iOS app without spending a lot
| of time screwing around with Apple?
|
| Yes! I've spent much more time screwing around with linkers and
| search paths than I ever have App Store Connect. It's really
| not very difficult, it's always surprising to hear engineers
| expect it'd be something they'd sink time into.
|
| Honestly, I think it's pretty remarkable you can distribute
| software to billions of devices with about as much clicking and
| form-filling as buying a plane ticket. Was there a time it was
| even easier?
| allenu wrote:
| I really don't know why this idea still persists that going
| through App Store review is this awful thing that takes
| forever and eats up all of your time. It really doesn't
| nowadays. I've shipped several apps in the last few years and
| the longest one of my apps has been in review has been maybe
| 3 days, and the average is between 1-2 days. That's usually
| for new apps. For updates, it's usually half a day to 1.5
| days to get it reviewed.
|
| It takes barely any time to manage the review process. I have
| had apps and updates rejected but it was easy enough to make
| some changes and re-submit.
| akxkkwix wrote:
| Akzkksixjzjwjzjwkskskskzjsk
| hbn wrote:
| I've watched through the show and I enjoyed season 1 a lot, but I
| found it eventually ran into the issue lots of shows do where
| it's just meandering and you realize it won't go anywhere because
| if they write towards a conclusion they can't make more seasons.
|
| I was pretty bored by the time it got into browser wars stuff.
| And the ending of the show was kinda baffling and cringe-
| inducing.
| pixelmonkey wrote:
| Someone named Ashley Blewer did such a deep dive on this show
| that she produced a full online course and syllabus centered
| around it.
|
| https://bits.ashleyblewer.com/halt-and-catch-fire-syllabus/
|
| It allows people to form a "watch club" around the show, similar
| to a book club, and have plenty of extra reading materials to
| understand the different tech eras covered in the show.
|
| I think this show -- combined with the documentary "General
| Magic" and the book "Fire in the Valley" -- is a great way to be
| immersed in the techno-optimism of the early tech industry around
| the time of the desktop PC revolution and early internet.
|
| For me, that sort of techno-optimism has stuck with me even if
| modern tech has more dystopian elements with which one has to
| grapple. It is still an amazing industry, all things considered.
|
| p.s. total aside that Apple TV sells a digital "box set" of this
| show for a pretty low price these days. I am usually not a fan of
| "buying" a show from a streaming service but might be worth it in
| this case since it's around $16 USD for every episode across its
| 4 seasons, Apple has a good track record honoring digital
| purchases, and watching the show is a commitment.
| icedchai wrote:
| I watched this show when it first came out in the 2010's. Very
| enjoyable, having lived through the BBS and early Internet age,
| worked for early ISPs that reminded me a bit of "Mutiny."
| TuringNYC wrote:
| One of my all time fav shows.
| liampulles wrote:
| I enjoyed the actual entrepreneurial endeavoring in the show, but
| I would have preferred if it was a bit drier. Would be
| interesting to see a series based on Skunk Works.
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Probably the best example of what life is like as a technical
| person mostly working in startups and bleeding edge technology.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| This show started to get so strong into season 1 and season 2,
| then completely lost it for me and went full soap opera. Seems
| super-common for new series; they (rightfully) don't put a lot of
| effort into future episodes of a show that's unlikely to last
| beyond the first, and run out of the motivating material. In the
| 80's/90's sitcom this was the "have a baby" storyline; on the
| grittier cable series it's focus on the broken characters and
| lots of sex.
| m463 wrote:
| season 2 only $2499.99 on amazon:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G6AS40K
| joshstrange wrote:
| What are people's thoughts on Season 2+? I only watched season 1
| and heard the show changed from 1->2 and never got around to
| watching it.
| unstatusthequo wrote:
| Really enjoyed this show. Not sure why it is so unknown. Highly
| recommend.
| tronster wrote:
| I binge watched all four seasons in 2021; personally I felt
| Season 1 was the best with Season 2 doing a good job of building
| on it. But everything changed in Season 3, in terms of the
| characters, the feeling of the show, etc... And it wasn't that
| they had "grown" via their story arcs. They just felt -
| different.
|
| It looks like some of the key writers changed halfway. This
| likely contributed to the change in characters, feeling, and
| everything that made the first two seasons so good. Jamie Pachino
| the executive story editor, was only there for the start. Also
| writers Jason Cahill, Dahvi Waller, and Jonathan Lisco only
| contributed to the first two seasons.
|
| I can only imagine how the last two seasons would have felt if
| more of the early writers were still involved.
| ducktastic wrote:
| Good show but wouldn't want my hypothetical kid to look up to the
| main woman character thinking it's cool to be perpetually high-
| strung, antisocial, with a highly unregulated nervous
| system/unhealthy habits just because she is 'cool' and
| 'brilliant'
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| It's a very good show and I did enjoy it (at least Seasons 1,2;
| never saw 3). But "best TV drama" is a stretch. BSG is a better
| drama IMO (sci-fi, yes, but essentially a drama about humanity).
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