[HN Gopher] Paragon accidentally uploaded a photo of its spyware...
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       Paragon accidentally uploaded a photo of its spyware control panel
        
       Author : CGMthrowaway
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2026-02-11 19:42 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | recursivecaveat wrote:
       | This company btw for anyone else who had not heard of them before
       | (there are a lot of companies by that name):
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragon_Solutions
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | It's too bad that "The right of the people to be secure in
         | their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against
         | unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
         | no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by
         | Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to
         | be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" has become
         | "we can download a full copy of all of your files at any time,
         | or continually, if we feel like it, even if we don't suspect
         | you of a crime".
        
       | moralestapia wrote:
       | Awesome.
       | 
       | Moxie's "unbreakable" end-to-end communication protocol.
        
         | thmsths wrote:
         | The message can't be intercepted in transit, since we are
         | talking about spyware, I assume they get it from the device,
         | hard to defend against that if they have access to your
         | process' memory space.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Surprising that end-to-end encryption doesn't really matter
           | when you get into one of the ends.
        
             | akimbostrawman wrote:
             | not at all. there is no encryption that can save you when
             | one of the legitimate participants is somehow compromised.
             | doesn't even need to be a sophisticated device compromise,
             | literal shoulder surfing does that too.
        
             | ASalazarMX wrote:
             | Even if you had to input your private key every time you
             | wanted to read or send a message, having malware in your
             | phone voids practically any form of encryption, because it
             | has to be decrypted eventually to be used.
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | >The message can't be intercepted in transit
           | 
           | Lol, so like ... all encryption schemes since the 70s?
        
             | sowbug wrote:
             | They do have stronger schemes, which are called hash
             | functions.
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | What?
               | 
               | Hashing is not encrypting.
               | 
               | You can learn more about the topic here,
               | https://www.okta.com/identity-101/hashing-vs-encryption/
        
               | p-o wrote:
               | Hashing is a part of encryption, maybe you are the one
               | who needs to shore up on the topic?
        
               | aipatselarom wrote:
               | Nice try. However, hashing and encryption are two
               | different operations.
               | 
               | Load this page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_En
               | cryption_Standard
               | 
               | Ctrl-F "hash". No mention of it.
               | 
               | Before being pedantic at least check out the url in that
               | comment to get the basics going.
        
               | sowbug wrote:
               | This entire thread should be annihilated, but since you
               | mentioned being pedantic...
               | 
               | You're correct that a pure encryption algorithm doesn't
               | use hashing. But real-world encryption _systems_ will
               | include an HMAC to detect whether messages were altered
               | in transit. HMACs do use hash functions.
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | A good hash function is surjective. Encryption is
               | bijective. They're very different things.
        
               | sowbug wrote:
               | _> What?_
               | 
               |  _> Hashing is not encrypting._
               | 
               |  _> You can learn more about the topic here,
               | https://www.okta.com/identity-101/hashing-vs-encryption/_
               | 
               | Thank you for that link. Your original comment implied
               | that Signal's threat model should have included an
               | attacker-controlled end. The only way to do that is to
               | make decryption impossible by anyone, including the
               | intended recipient. A labyrinthine way to do that would
               | be to substitute the symmetric-encryption algorithm with
               | a hash algorithm, which of course destroys the plaintext,
               | but does accomplish the goal of obfuscating it in
               | transit, at rest, and forever.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | It's a joke, because hashing loses information, and thus
               | the original is not retrievable, woosh
        
           | lmm wrote:
           | Certainly very hard to defend against that when the messenger
           | you're using won't let you use a device you control.
        
         | Insanity wrote:
         | How is this related?
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | I see there's some room for ambiguity.
           | 
           | See, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxie_Marlinspike
        
             | dualbus wrote:
             | Apologies for being dense. Could you spell out how you went
             | from Paragon Solutions to the Signal Protocol?
        
               | ale42 wrote:
               | I guess they've seen a Signal icon in the photo. Of
               | course the interception is done locally on the phone (so
               | it's basically "man-in-the-client" rather than a "man-in-
               | the-middle"), therefore the Signal protocol is not really
               | worth being mentioned as it has nothing to do with local
               | interception.
        
             | Insanity wrote:
             | Yea I knew which Moxie it was but that didn't help at all
             | haha
        
             | jabwd wrote:
             | Cool, can you now show how the protocol has been broken?
             | Lot of smart people would love to see your novel research.
        
       | rtaylorgarlock wrote:
       | Looks like image was removed and maybe only a demo?
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | Non-X link: https://archive.is/kqvnH
        
       | ronsor wrote:
       | From one Twitter user:
       | 
       | > It's just a demo instance, but, these front ends are barely
       | revealed to the public
       | 
       | This genuinely doesn't look any different from the control panels
       | of commercial infostealers and RATs sold on Russian hacking
       | forums. Those usually sell for between $200 and $20,000 depending
       | on features and pricing model (one-time vs. ongoing
       | subscription).
       | 
       | These spyware companies hype themselves up, but they're really
       | not any different from Ivan's RAT-as-a-Service, besides having
       | extra exploits to burn and wealthier customers.
        
         | walletdrainer wrote:
         | As it turns out, you just can't make malware for targets like
         | these much better.
        
       | amai wrote:
       | I read Pentagon instead of Paragon.
        
       | efilife wrote:
       | Can somebody please explain to an idiot (me) how is this possible
       | for this to keep going? I thought that the world has decided that
       | spyware is illegal and can't be produced. Is this company related
       | to israeli government? If not, why is it allowed to function?
        
         | muvlon wrote:
         | The world has not decided that spyware can't be produced.
         | Mostly, the powers that be treat it like weapons of war.
         | 
         | That is, companies can make and sell it as long as they only
         | sell it to governments and only the ones that we like.
        
         | general1465 wrote:
         | What is allowed to companies is not allowed to private
         | citizens. If you want to systematically break copyright laws or
         | steal data from people, do it as Joe's LLC. Joe would go to
         | prison for copyright infringement or hacking other people,
         | Joe's LLC can do as it please.
        
         | ra wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
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       (page generated 2026-02-11 23:00 UTC)