[HN Gopher] Single bone in Spain offers first direct evidence of...
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Single bone in Spain offers first direct evidence of Hannibal's war
elephants
Author : Archelaos
Score : 88 points
Date : 2026-02-06 19:25 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| keeganpoppen wrote:
| score yet another win for the stories of antiquity being more
| right than wrong.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| I think it would be more accurate to say "based upon true
| events".
| bluGill wrote:
| I don't think anyone doubted the story. The details might be
| questionable, but the basics that he tried to fight with
| elephants is highly likely. We have plenty of sources for War
| Elephants in his time, so the idea that he didn't have them
| would be the larger surprise if someone could prove that.
| arduanika wrote:
| It's more like, the surviving written histories and the
| archaeological record are each giving us only a part of the
| real truth. It's as if they're both grasping in the dark at two
| different parts of the same elephant.
| L2007W wrote:
| Herodotus wrote of fire breathing ants in Egypt.
| RupertSalt wrote:
| He was referring to his mother's sisters.
|
| Misinterpreted all the time. Very similar terms in the Greek
| sources.
| Starman_Jones wrote:
| Worth noting that these would have been North African elephants,
| a now-extinct subspecies. It is not as tall as the modern African
| elephant - 2.5m at the shoulder, as compared to 3 to 3.5m for
| African elephants. A large warhorse might measure 1.5m tall, for
| comparison.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_elephant
| Mordisquitos wrote:
| It is my understanding that Asian elephants are easier to tame
| by humans than African elephants, which is evident just by
| seeing how elephants are used in parts of Asia and how they are
| used (not) in Africa. Also circus elephants, when they were
| still common, would always be Asian elephants and not African
| ones. The reason I'm pointing this out is that I wonder whether
| the North African subspecies was more amenable to taming than
| still extant subspecies of the African elephant.
| wahern wrote:
| There are multiple species of African elephants, and the
| North African elephant may yet turn out to be related if not
| identical to one of the others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
| /North_African_elephant#Taxonom... The African forest
| elephant is of similar size, and it would be interesting if
| the forest elephant is indeed more easily trained.
| rightbyte wrote:
| > A large warhorse might measure 1.5m tall, for comparison.
|
| By sadle hight not at ear top hight, right?
| Starman_Jones wrote:
| Correct :)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_%28unit%29
| metalman wrote:
| ears will be at 8' or above on a real tank
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_elephant
|
| mentions hannibals last surviving elephant by name
| jacquesm wrote:
| Shoulder height.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| Terror Lake salutes Hannibal crossing the alps
| Insanity wrote:
| This month I read "Carthage Must Be Destroyed"
| (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10133950-carthage-
| must-b...), which dives deep into Hannibal's war against Rome
| (and the other punic wars).
|
| I highly recommend reading about what happened from the
| Carthaginian perspective instead of the typical Roman
| perspective.
|
| There's also some elaboration on the usage of elephants, the
| feasibility of of this, and how ultimately ineffective it was for
| war. (It was great for scaring the enemy, but the issue is they
| indiscriminately hurt both armies).
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Hannibal loved it when a plan came together.
|
| The latter years of his life must have been very disappointing
| awesome_dude wrote:
| I ain't gettin' on no plane Hannibal!
| dzink wrote:
| After interacting with some Asian elephants with handlers
| recently this makes a lot more sense. Even if he used North
| African elephants - they can hike up and down mountains and rough
| terrain easily with stability. I'm assuming they could pull
| equipment and even potentially be armed and armored. They are
| incredible creatures.
| drewnoakes wrote:
| I highly recommend "The Fall of Civilisations" podcast's episode
| on this topic. it's such an epic story and the narrator builds
| such a rich picture of the times and events.
|
| https://fallofcivilizationspodcast.com/2023/04/11/%F0%9F%90%...
| drewnoakes wrote:
| There's also a video version of the episode on YouTube:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dbdVhVSat8
| dkislyuk wrote:
| The Paul Cooper production is great. The Rest Is History also
| just finished a long series (spread out in three seasons,
| starting on episode 421) on the Punic wars, similarly well
| done.
| hinkley wrote:
| Something often left out of fiction about war is how easily a
| moving army can overwhelm a local ecosystem, particularly if its
| supply lines sag. You might not even be their target, and yet you
| will be pillaged. No more easy hunting for you for years. No more
| quick trips for firewood, or tinder.
|
| It stands to reason that if an occupying force doesn't stay long
| in an area, and its animals die along the way, that the now
| destitute locals will take the "road kill" and scrounge every
| possible calorie from it. And marrow was a dish rather than
| something for soup stock up until the modern era. The Illiad
| basically won't shut up about it.
|
| So I have no doubt that every dead elephant anyone could find was
| 100% rendered down into food and leather by the beleaguered
| locals. And probably every cousin from one village over got told
| about the find too. (I suspect elephant leather would make
| amazing peasant shoes)
| HPsquared wrote:
| And perhaps it's not so good even if you are being "defended"
| by the hungry army! It kind of resembles when a monarch comes
| to visit a noble; you would need to spend a lot on them and
| their entourage.
| Archelaos wrote:
| Why should the army leave a dead elephant on the road? They
| would butcher it themselves and take the meat with them (and
| the tusks). The locals may have found some large bones for
| their living room decorations (and may be some skin, if they
| were lucky).
| lukan wrote:
| Because they might be in a hurry to reach that mountain pass
| before the snow comes. Or to meet other goals set by the
| general and if already stocked up on supplies, it would be
| quite a burden to also carry an extra elephant (which was
| likely also carrying things before it died).
| ahmedfromtunis wrote:
| > You might not even be their target, and yet you will be
| pillaged.
|
| Isn't this how Rome was sacked way back when it was just a city
| among many others in the Italian peninsula? If I recall
| correctly, this was a wake-up call for the city to start
| working on protecting itself adequately.
| siofra wrote:
| > Something often left out of fiction about war is how easily a
| moving army can overwhelm a local ecosystem, particularly if
| its supply lines sag. You might not even be their target, and
| yet you will be pillaged. No more easy hunting for you for
| years. No more quick trips for firewood, or tinder.
|
| This is also why so many soldiers ended up dead outside of
| battle, and not from getting stabbed. Why Sun Tzu and
| Clauzewitz went on and on about logistics.
| ManuelKiessling wrote:
| Micro-nitpick: it's ,,Clausewitz" with an ,,s".
| contingencies wrote:
| While indeed an army marches on its stomach, it's easy to
| miss the fact that the entire field of operations research
| which now runs such modern marvels as international air
| transport and major data centers grew out of the field of
| logistics, which itself grew out of increasing complexity in
| once primitive military food logistics.
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