[HN Gopher] Semaglutide improves knee osteoarthritis independant...
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       Semaglutide improves knee osteoarthritis independant of weight loss
        
       Author : randycupertino
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2026-02-10 16:55 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
        
       | randycupertino wrote:
       | Independent of weight loss, semaglutide (Ozempic) improves knee
       | osteoarthritis by cartilage restoration, in both the mouse model
       | and a small randomized clinical trial.
       | 
       | Old thinking was the benefit of GLP-1 drugs (like Ozempic) was
       | solely from weight loss, however studies are showing there are
       | other unique benefits. It's probably that semaglutide reduces
       | inflammation allowing the body to repair and improves
       | mitochondrial function in cartilage cells.
        
         | lysace wrote:
         | Seems like a wonder drug to me. The benefits just keep piling
         | up.
         | 
         | Where I live (Sweden), there's a perhaps surprisingly large
         | portion of overweight/obesese people, especially in the
         | countryside. Semaglutide could really do wonders here for
         | quality of life and health.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, the newspapers keep pushing exceptional scare
         | stories. The one that stuck with me from a few weeks ago went
         | like 'I puked up my own poop.' Perhaps tellingly, the people
         | they tend to feature in these stories typically aren't really
         | overweight.
         | 
         | It is not yet generally subsidized, unless you have a diabetes
         | type 2 diagnose. It really should be, above some BMI (sans body
         | builders).
        
           | mhurron wrote:
           | > Seems like a wonder drug to me
           | 
           | Not really, it's that hormones don't do just one thing in the
           | body. GLP-1 isn't just some weight management hormone.
           | 
           | > The one that stuck with me from a few weeks ago went like
           | 'I puked up my own poop.'
           | 
           | That happens if you let constipation go on far too long, and
           | is not something unique to GLP-1 meds.
        
             | nwienert wrote:
             | > Not really
             | 
             | This made me actually laugh. A drug that cures obesity and
             | addiction alone would be a wonder drug.
             | 
             | This one also improves about a hundred odd immune
             | disorders, including being a better general allergy drug
             | than just about anything. My own extremely rare and
             | terribly painful immune disorder is basically entirely
             | cured by it - it completely changed my life, making even
             | sleeping far better. But not just me, I have friends who
             | have lifelong terrible allergies gone, lifelong pack-a-day
             | smoking addictions _completely gone_ , and so on...
             | 
             | "Not really" is truly either the most pessimistic take I've
             | ever heard, or hopefully just completely misinformed.
        
               | mhurron wrote:
               | > A drug that cures obesity and addiction alone would be
               | a wonder drug.
               | 
               | A drug that influences a hormone causing effects on
               | everything that hormone is involved in shouldn't be
               | considered a wonder drug, it should be expected
               | functionality.
               | 
               | It's only a wonder drug that does all these miraculous
               | things if you think GLP-1 is only a weight management
               | hormone. It's not, and you should expect effects anywhere
               | it is involved in. A short list of tissues we know GLP-1
               | is involved in processes is:
               | 
               | - heart - tongue - adipose tissue - muscles - bones -
               | kidneys - liver - lungs
               | 
               | Effects on these aren't miracles, they should be
               | expected.
               | 
               | I am happy to hear you saw so many improvements, but it's
               | because you had an issue with a hormone that is involved
               | in a lot of things in the body. So it was going to
               | express a lot of problems. It's not surprising that you
               | see a lot of improvements when you begin to manage the
               | underlying cause.
        
           | gib444 wrote:
           | The constipation is REAL though. Like 10 plus days real. That
           | scare story might be extreme but severe constipation is
           | pretty common (and fecal vomiting can be a result of extreme
           | constipation/impaction I believe)
        
             | lvspiff wrote:
             | I've been taking the pill form of magnesium citrate and it
             | helped SOO much im back to every day to every other day
        
               | gib444 wrote:
               | Nice. I added quite a lot of powder magnesium to my
               | morning shake, did nothing.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | You mentioned elsewhere that milk of magnesia worked, so
               | is it possible that you received a bunk product? I know
               | this is a common issue with supplements and there are
               | some neutral third-party test labs for this.
        
               | Dma54rhs wrote:
               | Some forms of magnesium trigger more stool my movement
               | than others. And there are many forms. I had opposite
               | problem with it, tried ti find what won't cause it since
               | I have a problem with it too behind with. Also sour kraut
               | triggers me almost always and instant toilet break.
        
             | Fogest wrote:
             | Ultimately you get these extreme issues if you ignore a
             | problem for too long. If you are becoming constipated and
             | let it continue for many days on end without seeking some
             | kind of treatment I feel that you are kinda to blame. I had
             | some constipations at one point while on it and used some
             | over the counter style fiber products and stool softeners
             | to deal with the problem. If I ignored the problem of
             | course I could potentially end up in these more extreme
             | situations.
             | 
             | I think if people are choosing to use such medications they
             | should make sure they are aware of the potential
             | complications and are vigilant with their health to ensure
             | these extreme side effects are avoided.
        
               | gib444 wrote:
               | Fibre and stool softeners did nothing for me. Nor
               | increasing water. Nor exercise. Nor massaging my stomach.
               | Nor senna
               | 
               | Only a magnesium drink ("Milk of Magnesia") or bisocodyl,
               | neither of which are pleasant to take regularly as they
               | result only in diarrhoea
               | 
               | It's hard to balance trying to let your body do its thing
               | with less extreme method and resorting to the nuclear
               | option. You also have to write off a day and not go
               | anywhere after taking those
               | 
               | It's very much related to the drug and not just
               | "ignoring" something
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | Try miralax yet? It's basically tasteless in a glass of
               | water.
        
               | Fogest wrote:
               | I only had an issue because I was taking an iron
               | supplement at the same time which also can further cause
               | constipation. I stopped taking that and it resolved my
               | constipation issues.
               | 
               | I'm not too sure what you're referring to with a "write
               | off day". I am on the highest dose currently and don't
               | have this issue. I maybe get some sleepiness the day
               | after taking it but I can still do things. However that
               | effect has also subsided a lot after taking it for long
               | over.
               | 
               | Every medication will have pros and cons. I'm having huge
               | success on the medication and the slight issues I have
               | are a worthy tradeoff personally.
        
               | normie3000 wrote:
               | > I'm not too sure what you're referring to with a "write
               | off day".
               | 
               | Some people aren't comfortable leaving the house when
               | their rear is flowing like Niagara Falls.
        
               | Fogest wrote:
               | Oh wow that sounds like the opposite issue! I've only had
               | the other problem where it's not coming out. It's funny
               | how medications can cause issues where they constipate
               | people, but then also have the opposite problem where
               | they make people have diahrea.
        
             | malfist wrote:
             | For what it's worth, GLP-1s helped significantly with my
             | IBS-D, and current research shows they're more effective
             | and better tolerated than bile acid sequestrants.
             | 
             | YMMV
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | I'm totally with you. I've been lucky because a daily scoop
             | of miralax has made me regular; unsolvable constipation
             | would be absolutely miserable.
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | If you don't have a regime that supports the medication,
             | you could suffer some real problems. Drinking a LOT of
             | water is mandatory. As well as eating lots of fiber - like
             | good p-fruits (plum/pear/peach/etc) or benefiber/laxative.
             | 
             | I've had no problems following the advice of my weight loss
             | program and r/Zepbound etc.
        
               | normie3000 wrote:
               | Pineapple?
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | For me, it really is a wonder drug. My blood test results
           | were stellar when the drug worked for me. Unfortunately, with
           | me, it either works and I get side effects, or it doesn't
           | work at all. I feel minimal effects (and almost no weight
           | loss) even on a 10mg dose.
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | Have you considered tirzepatide (ie, Zepbound/Mounjaro)? I
             | know several people who responded poorly to Wegovy who did
             | great on Zep.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Yes, neither works for me. I managed to tolerate
               | tirzepatide better (once), but it barely works at that
               | point.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | I keep expecting for them to discover some horrible side
           | effect. I wonder if people thought the same when they
           | discovered antibiotics though.
        
             | foxyv wrote:
             | To be fair, we have seen some long term effects from
             | antibiotic use. Especially with regards to gut biomes.
             | However, the long term effect of not using them is
             | oftentimes death or permanent disability. Don't see nearly
             | as many amputations from infected scratches these days
             | thankfully.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | Or like Vitamin C. There aren't side effects to fixing a
             | vitamin deficiency. This increasingly, to me, looks like
             | that. (There are absolutely bad effects from overdoing it.)
        
               | ViktorRay wrote:
               | Hey just want to add something.
               | 
               | Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin. It's pretty damn
               | hard to get Vitamin C toxicity from overconsumption. It's
               | not really something to worry about. This is true for all
               | the water soluble vitamins.
               | 
               | This isn't true for the fat soluble vitamins. Those are
               | Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin K and Vitamin D.
               | 
               | You can overdose and get toxicity if you consume too much
               | of these. For Vitamin D you can't overdose from what your
               | body generates from the skin but you can from the oral
               | forms.
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | GLP-1 drugs carry a small risk of gastroparesis, which can
             | be severe in some patients. I wouldn't recommend avoiding
             | using them due to that risk if medically indicated but
             | patients should be aware.
             | 
             | https://www.centraloregondaily.com/news/consumer/glp-1-weig
             | h...
        
               | amanaplanacanal wrote:
               | Diabetes can cause gastroparesis too. I assume a large
               | number of folks taking these drugs are diabetic.
        
             | alexjplant wrote:
             | Stomach paralysis is apparently a known side effect [1].
             | There are also lots of anecdotes about lesser (but still
             | foul) digestive surprises that are too unpleasant for me to
             | bother elaborating on here.
             | 
             | I was on my thiccboi swag for the latter half of last year
             | and am presently working it off by rebuilding my fitness
             | base with kettlebells and cardio. I'd rather do this than
             | GLP-1s not because I'm some sort of iron-willed badass so
             | much as I'm simply distrustful of anything that messes with
             | one's metabolism so severely. While these drugs are useful
             | for the morbidly obese and diabetics I simply can't imagine
             | how or why anybody would go on them for aesthetic or off-
             | label purposes.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.webmd.com/obesity/ozempic-and-stomach-
             | paralysis
        
               | supern0va wrote:
               | >Stomach paralysis is apparently a known side effect [1].
               | There are also lots of anecdotes about lesser (but still
               | foul) digestive surprises that are too unpleasant for me
               | to bother elaborating on here.
               | 
               | These are real, but they're also not permanent, and are
               | why you start on a low dose to evaluate how your body
               | reacts to the medication. My spouse is a long time GLP-1
               | user (coming up on four years now) and had mild (or more)
               | bouts of several of these digestive related systems.
               | 
               | However, within six months these had greatly diminished.
               | And by the one year mark, even at the highest dose, they
               | were essentially gone and have remained a non-issue
               | since.
               | 
               | You should certainly be mindful of side effects, and
               | follow the recommended dosage scale up, which should be
               | monitored by your doctor.
               | 
               | >I was on my thiccboi swag for the latter half of last
               | year and am presently working it off by rebuilding my
               | fitness base with kettlebells and cardio. I'd rather do
               | this than GLP-1s not because I'm some sort of iron-willed
               | badass so much as I'm simply distrustful of anything that
               | messes with one's metabolism so severely. While these
               | drugs are useful for the morbidly obese and diabetics I
               | simply can't imagine how or why anybody would go on them
               | for aesthetic or off-label purposes.
               | 
               | I do think folks with obesity fall into one of two camps
               | (or somewhere on a spectrum between): those that are in
               | that place because they don't put in any effort, eat
               | whatever they want, don't workout, and so on.
               | 
               | And then there are folks like my spouse. They were able
               | to lose weight in the past, but only through continued
               | suffering. To be "just" overweight, they needed to be
               | working out constantly and in a state of _always_ feeling
               | hungry. They never reached an equilibrium where it wasn
               | 't agony to maintain that weight, and after months/years
               | would always rebound.
               | 
               | For them, a GLP-1 was the only thing that ever quieted
               | the food noise. They workout constantly still and are in
               | the best shape of their life. It wasn't entirely the
               | GLP-1, but that gave them the tool to quiet the noise and
               | get to a state where fitness could be fun/sustainable,
               | and now they're killing it.
               | 
               | So, the TL;DR is that some people need this tool, and
               | it's not necessarily an either/or. It can be one part in
               | a series of positive changes that lead to better health
               | and well-being.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | > Seems like a wonder drug to me. The benefits just keep
           | piling up.
           | 
           | That's a massive red flag. It's a common sign of snake oil
           | when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely
           | unrelated conditions. While I do think these drugs are
           | actually effective at some things, I also wonder how much
           | they're being overprescribed already. It seems like there's a
           | massive push to try to get insurance to cover the drug for
           | just about anything and everything. I've never seen a drug
           | advertised as aggressively either.
           | 
           | The drug is helping people and improving lives and that's a
           | good thing, but I'm not sure how much of the attention on
           | this drug is just a massive scheme by phrama companies to get
           | sales and how careful doctors and patients are being.
        
             | MattGaiser wrote:
             | > It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to
             | be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions.
             | 
             | Except this is coming from the opposite direction. The drug
             | is being noticed to seemingly cure unrelated conditions.
             | The vendor is not selling it as that.
        
               | meatmanek wrote:
               | There's always the chance that the manufacturers are
               | behind some of these stories -- funding studies to find
               | new markets, astroturfing success stories, etc.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | Although I can't say it's what happened in this case, I
               | suspect that the drug companies have a hand in some of
               | the research showing the unexpected benefits of their
               | product. While they do have to be careful about what they
               | claim the drug does in conventional advertising, studies
               | suggesting various benefits for this drug get a lot of
               | attention in the media.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | These studies have conflict of interest, funding, etc.
               | disclosures.
               | 
               | If it was Lilly and Novo pushing these, they'd either
               | show up in those disclosures or you're suggesting a
               | massive conspiracy to undermine the medical regulatory
               | system to sell more drugs that they already have
               | struggled to meet demand for for extended periods of
               | time.
               | 
               | Why would they kill a golden goose that shows no signs of
               | stopping it's egg laying?
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | It's not so much a massive conspiracy as it is the known
               | reality of how these companies operate. There is very
               | little risk as oversight and real accountability are
               | basically non-existent
               | 
               | Novo Nordisk has even demonstrated their willingness to
               | ignore disclosure requirements
               | (https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-
               | novo-no...) multiple times even
               | (https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-
               | failed...) but the problem is everywhere including
               | research
               | 
               | Here are just some examples:
               | 
               | > Cross-sectional studies across a heterogeneous set of
               | conditions suggest that between 29 and 69 % of published
               | clinical trial reports include disclosures of conflicts
               | of interest. Studies measuring undisclosed conflicts of
               | interest suggest that between 43 and 69 % of study
               | reports and other articles fail to include disclosures of
               | conflicts of interest
               | (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/)
               | 
               | > chief medical officer at Memorial Sloan Kettering
               | Cancer Center in New York, failed to disclose relevant
               | industry ties in dozens of research articles since 2013. 
               | (https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Le
               | adin...)
               | 
               | > one in four Australian authors in 120 trials had at
               | least one undeclared conflict, with an average value of
               | undisclosed payment at almost AU $9000.
               | (https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-
               | opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-...)
        
               | lysace wrote:
               | I noticed that just in the past two hours you have
               | provided detailed skepticism/commentary in these topics:
               | 
               | - Semaglutide
               | 
               | - App addiction for kids
               | 
               | - Fake news via tiktok
               | 
               | I guess what I'm asking is: are you really going deep, or
               | just blasting us with links?
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | I only provided examples in case there was any doubt that
               | failure to disclose ties to the pharmaceutical industry
               | was a known and large scale problem after the suggestion
               | that it was some kind of conspiracy theory. Skepticism in
               | the case of these drug companies is warranted.
               | 
               | As for the variety of the things I've commented on, I can
               | only blame procrastination and the contents of the front
               | page. I got a lot more work done monday afternoon, I
               | promise.
        
               | throaway1998 wrote:
               | There's no case to be made for calling these drugs snake
               | oil. They're well-proven to have a host of benefits
               | beyond their specified use. Their promotion by the makers
               | of the drug doesn't change that.
        
         | sReinwald wrote:
         | One thing I have noticed on Mounjaro is a (at least
         | subjectively) significant decrease in impulse spending / buying
         | random crap off Amazon. I have ADHD and that has been a real
         | problem for quite a while - even with ADHD medication
         | (Elvanse/Vyvanse in my case).
         | 
         | The part of Mounjaro that regulates the craving side of the
         | weight loss equation (like reducing 'food noise' and the desire
         | for sugary and fatty foods) seems to also affect other
         | behaviors due to Mounjaro's effect on the brain's reward
         | circuitry. I believe there are also early preliminary studies
         | that indicate it can help with addictions like alcoholism.
         | 
         | Those drugs really are quite something. Shame they're so damn
         | expensive. Insurance here in Germany is unfortunately legally
         | prohibited from covering GLP-1 class drugs for weight loss
         | unless you have a diabetes diagnosis.
        
           | thinkingtoilet wrote:
           | That would go in line with what I've read of it helping
           | people with mild addictions.
        
           | deinonychus wrote:
           | That's really neat.
           | 
           | I'm ashamed that I have this wish that I were overweight and
           | had an excuse to try a GLP1 just to see how it would affect
           | my impulse control with non-food habits.
           | 
           | I guess there's not much stopping me from buying some
           | unregulated drugs from the internet and self-experimenting,
           | but I haven't heard experiences from people deliberately
           | using them for anything but weight.
        
             | papascrubs wrote:
             | Depending on your appetite for risk, there's always the
             | gray market. It's also a lot cheaper depending on what your
             | insurance covers. I think I picked up a year's supply of
             | semaglutide for under $200. I've been on some form of GLP
             | for the last 2 years and for me there have been several
             | tangible benefits related to ADHD.
             | 
             | https://gray.guide is a good starting point.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | I'll note that calling it the gray market really is
               | people uncomfortable with the idea of buying drugs from a
               | drug dealer trying to find a way to make this more
               | palatable.
               | 
               | That's not a judgment thing on my part - I've got a
               | freezer full of Chinese peptides, among other things.
               | 
               | But the raw API on all of this stuff is coming from China
               | in a way that is effectively unregulated and with no
               | recourse if anything goes wrong. Underground Chinese labs
               | get raided and shut down (usually because they're also
               | involved in producing AAS or opioid precursors) often
               | leaving millions of dollars in unfulfilled product.
               | People get peptides with 0 active ingredient. People get
               | peptides contaminated with disinfectant and have adverse
               | reactions. People get mislabeled peptides. People get
               | radically underdosed or overdoses peptides. And when a
               | controversy hits, these labs close up shop one day and
               | come back a week later under a new name. If you get a
               | vial full of something truly harmful to you and you die,
               | your loved ones have zero recourse.
               | 
               | Your local weed dealer has infinitely more accountability
               | than these labs.
               | 
               | Testing isn't a panacea - people do endotoxin, heavy
               | metal, HPLC, etc., but GCMS and similar basically never
               | happens - and without knowing what the potential
               | substances are the automatching to peaks even for GCMS is
               | often inaccurate to the point of uselessness."Purity"
               | reports on HPLC don't measure everything in the vial -
               | just how pure the targeted peak is. It'll catch protein
               | depredations, but it wouldn't tell you if there was a
               | bunch of anthrax in the vial.
               | 
               | For me, the calculus still makes sense. I've got access
               | to things that have worked incredibly well for me that
               | are not yet available in the US, or in some cases, not
               | likely to ever be. But the "gray" market is buying from
               | overseas drug dealers that don't particularly give a fuck
               | about you. They don't want to hurt you - you spend less
               | money if they do - but they also aren't going out of
               | their way to look after you. Most of them only started
               | HPLC tests because the bodybuilding community demanded
               | it, and these guys were selling AAS and HGH to them
               | before they got into the GLP-1s, and then it became the
               | standard.
               | 
               | These aren't parallel import goods getting sold in areas
               | where they aren't supposed to or unauthorized retailers.
               | These are drug dealers that get shut down by the Chinese
               | government on a regular basis. Go look up QSC, SSA, SRY -
               | and those are just some of the biggest names from the
               | past year or so.
        
               | papascrubs wrote:
               | I like to call it the "gray" market because the
               | substances themselves are gray, not because of their
               | source. My weed dealer doesn't sell GLPs (yet, but I can
               | see that coming). I haven't seen anyone arrested for
               | having GLPs yet either-- although I have seen plenty of
               | US based vendors have to close up shop due to legal
               | pressure.
               | 
               | I do that believe that risk can be (mostly) mitigated,
               | mainly by sticking with longstanding vendors and by
               | trying to minimize risk with the actual substances
               | (researching proper dosing protocol, batch testing, not
               | assuming dosing, starting out on lower dosing with new
               | kits etc). There is definitely risk associated, that said
               | I'm often dabbling in non-FDA approved substances, so
               | regardless I have zero recourse if something happens.
               | 
               | Are there any testing/safety protocols that you follow?
        
             | sigilis wrote:
             | If it helps, I don't think that there is anything to be
             | ashamed of to want to try new things even if you recognize
             | it is inadvisable. If there were no physical consequences,
             | I'd like to try all sorts of medicines to see what effect
             | they would have on me.
             | 
             | As a user of Mounjaro, obtained from a doctor, I find the
             | experience very interesting. It has all sorts of weird side
             | effects that I don't expect. As a bioinformatician in
             | training it's great fun to speculate about the causes,
             | pathways, signals, and whatnot that might be involved as
             | this drug perturbs so much stuff in my system.
             | 
             | It's not pleasurable per se, but it is interesting. I have
             | changed my food habits significantly without actually
             | trying. I think I was too impatient to eat to cook if that
             | makes sense. Weirdly, foods taste better to me which I did
             | not expect. I also have found myself really enjoying my
             | hobbies more. This has resulted in a lot of 3d printer
             | filament purchases, so my impulse control may not have been
             | helped much.
             | 
             | As far as experimenting on yourself, it will likely require
             | the cumulative effect of weeks or months to notice changes
             | in non-food habits if such changes occur at all.
             | 
             | There's probably some online doctor that will prescribe
             | this thing to you for several hundred dollars/euros or
             | whatever. You may suffer greatly for your curiosity,
             | though. There are instances of very unpleasant side
             | effects, some of which I experience personally.
        
             | sReinwald wrote:
             | It would probably be interesting, but if you are not
             | overweight, the appetite suppression will likely make this
             | not a very healthy or very fun experiment. I started at 5mg
             | in October, and even on that smaller dose I had to force
             | myself to eat even just ~800kcal a day - especially in the
             | early weeks. When you have a lot of weight to lose, that's
             | a pretty welcome effect. When you are already at a healthy
             | weight, not so much. That caloric intake would put most
             | adults into a pretty deep caloric deficit.
             | 
             | I'd suspect if the effects on non-weight indications check
             | out in studies, we might see drugs that could specifically
             | target those effects without also slowing down your
             | digestive tract. Addictions like nicotine and alcoholism
             | and their consequences cost health insurance companies (and
             | us as a society) billions of Euros/Dollars each year, so
             | there'd be a strong incentive to pursue this.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | Are the drugs actually expensive, or just expensive for now
           | because they can be?
           | 
           | Modern society basically decided that adding flouride to
           | drinking water and iodine to table salt for everyone was
           | better than dealing with tooth decay and gout.
           | 
           | I understand that peptide synthesis and cold-chain logistics
           | are not as trivial as these elements, but this paper [1]
           | estimates that GLP1 manufacturing costs can be under a dollar
           | per person per month, orders of magnitude less than current
           | market rates!
           | 
           | Perhaps our future society will normalize taking a daily
           | GLP-1 agonist with their other multivitamins at breakfast.
           | 
           | [1]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullart
           | icle...
        
             | MattGaiser wrote:
             | They are cheap now if you dig deep enough. Lots of vendors
             | selling peptides.
        
               | thisisit wrote:
               | Can you give some examples? And are those reliable?
        
               | dinkelberg wrote:
               | Not an example, but maybe this is interesting for folks
               | who haven't really heard of the peptide business before. 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/wellness/2026/feb/05/injectab
               | le-...
        
             | sReinwald wrote:
             | I suspect a big reason for why Mounjaro is still fairly
             | expensive here in Germany (I pay nearly EUR400 for a 10mg
             | Qwickpen - a 12.5mg Qwickpen is nearly EUR500) is due to
             | health insurance not being allowed to cover them for
             | anything but diabetes treatment.
             | 
             | If health insurance companies would be able to cover these
             | drugs, there'd have to be negotiations between Eli Lilly
             | and the insurance companies, and insurance companies have a
             | bigger lever than individual patients who pay out of
             | pocket. Self-payers are just price-takers. We pay whatever
             | Eli Lilly wants us to pay.
        
           | 01100011 wrote:
           | On Wegovy(semaglutide) I haven't noticed any change in my
           | binges or impulsiveness. Slightly worse(not dramatic)
           | depressive episodes but that's about it.
        
           | zemvpferreira wrote:
           | I've been on Mounjaro and find it pretty inexpensive, but I'm
           | using a high-dose pen for a low-dose injection. One 15mg pen
           | is going to last me around 6 months at my current rate, so
           | around 15 euros per week.
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | If it can somehow restore spinal disc function, I'm gonna start
       | snorting the stuff.
        
         | nwienert wrote:
         | It's a miracle drug for reducing immune overreach, like better
         | than anything we know of. This is also completely outside of
         | the weight loss effects. My lower back is improved by it.
         | 
         | It'll come to be known that these drugs are far better for
         | people in a broad way than even thought today. They seem to
         | have at least 4 effects that individually should be considered
         | a "miracle."
        
           | quantumwoke wrote:
           | Can you give some examples of immune overreach that are
           | improved?
        
             | wincy wrote:
             | My wife has had an autoimmune disease that's caused
             | inflammation for years. Absolutely terrible back pain. She
             | had to rent a motorized scooter when we went to Disney
             | World, and could barely walk a few hundred feet before
             | having to stop and rest for years.
             | 
             | Last year she started Zepbound (tirzepatide) and the
             | inflammation went away, we went to Disney World again and
             | she walked happily all day. Absolutely life changing. She
             | didn't even lose much weight and this was at the lowest
             | dose.
        
         | JMKH42 wrote:
         | I have a bad disc, and while its still bad, a couple weeks of
         | freestyle swimming workouts makes it not hurt for a year or two
         | and lets me mountain bike comfortably again. Something to try
         | if the usual stuff doesn't work, as it tends not to!
         | 
         | This was the disc between lumbar and sacrum. 1,000 ways to have
         | a bad disc so results will vary a lot!
        
         | schnebbau wrote:
         | I had a bulging lumbar disc - pure agony for 18 months. I had
         | become used to carrying a lumbar pillow around with me
         | everywhere I went. I couldn't lean forward for more than about
         | 30 seconds without it being unbearable.
         | 
         | Then someone suggested I try dead hangs, stretching my
         | hamstrings, and really cranking the McKenzie stretch. I'm not
         | sure which one made the difference (all 3?), but pain was gone
         | in 2 weeks.
         | 
         | Maybe it will help, maybe it won't. But since someone took a
         | flyer telling me, I always share this with others in the small
         | chance it helps them.
        
           | properbrew wrote:
           | Do you have any links for how you did these stretches? I know
           | someone that could do with trying this.
        
             | schnebbau wrote:
             | For hamstring stretch I find using a back extension station
             | works well, doing one leg at a time (https://m.media-
             | amazon.com/images/I/61TQEGNUgQL._AC_UF894,10...). Let
             | gravity pull your torso down, which will stretch your
             | hamstring. If that's not possible, using the corner of a
             | wall works too
             | (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2U4ChnuL3JM/maxresdefault.jpg)
             | 
             | For the McKenzie stretch (https://images.squarespace-
             | cdn.com/content/v1/5e556aadfe97d3...), instead of just
             | holding the stretch, do reps between laying flat and then
             | going into the stretch. At the end of your final rep (I
             | would do 8), rotate side to side gently when arched.
             | 
             | Dead hangs: hang from a bar for 30 seconds, completely
             | relaxed. Then 1 minute of rest. Repeat 3 times. This
             | decompresses your spine.
        
           | mrmuagi wrote:
           | McKenzie stretched helped me rehab a pulled muscle in my
           | lower back (originally thought it was a disc).
           | 
           | Deadlifts also helped strengthen lower back muscles. Tight
           | hamstrings from sitting on the computer all the time also
           | didn't help. I'll try dead hangs.
        
             | schnebbau wrote:
             | Deadlifts are how I got into that mess. There are two types
             | of deadlifter: those who have ruined their back, and those
             | who haven't yet ruined their back.
             | 
             | Romanian deadlifts are much safer. Also hip thrusts and
             | weighted back extensions are good enough unless you're a
             | competitive power lifter.
        
         | boelboel wrote:
         | SW033291 or MF-300 might be interesting to look out for with
         | spinal function.
         | https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/01/260120000333.h...
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | I know you're getting a lot of "this worked for me" responses
         | and I wanted to throw one more in. I used to have lower back
         | problems all the time, but after following a strength training
         | program for the olympic lifts with a personal trainer,
         | generally the only time I have lower back pain now is if I've
         | gone too hard to deadlifts or rows, not from general day to day
         | things.
        
       | waffletower wrote:
       | There are other clinical trials, such as one for Orforglipron,
       | which are also studying this specifically.
        
       | lvspiff wrote:
       | My psychiatrist is really interested in how it affects anxiety
       | and depression as he has now seena number of improvements from a
       | bunch of patients (including myself) who use the drug. Im on meds
       | for both and only after i started on monjourno did i feel a
       | signifigant change. The food cravings gone due to the
       | nuerological effects but the stress levels lower as it seems to
       | be impacting seratonin levels in ways as you increase dose.
        
         | rsyring wrote:
         | If you don't mind sharing, at what dose did you see positive
         | impact on mood?
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | > a number of improvements from a bunch of patients (including
         | myself) who use the drug.
         | 
         | Does that include people who haven't lost weight on the drug? I
         | imagine a lot of people will start to feel better when they
         | look better and are healthier.
        
         | 01100011 wrote:
         | Semaglutide has a warning about not being suitable for folks
         | with depression. I don't think I've seen any changes to my
         | moods. I'm type-II bipolar and if anything my depression
         | episodes are slightly worse now.
        
         | bluescrn wrote:
         | The most surprising effect of Mounjaro, at least initially was
         | that it drastically reduced by desire to drink beer, and when I
         | started, my drinking was at a very unhealthy level (beer
         | calories being a major factor in my weight problem). But maybe
         | I'm an odd case, as I had a real beer habit but don't like wine
         | and very rarely touched spirits.
         | 
         | Actually losing some weight as well as cutting my drinking
         | down, helped me with depression far more than SSRIs (which had
         | previously led to even faster weight gain)
         | 
         | Unfortunately, the effects started to diminish somewhat after
         | about a year on it, as if I was building up a bit of a
         | tolerance to the drug. And then I switched to Wegovy (=Ozempic)
         | after big UK price hikes to Mounjaro, and found it much less
         | effective, started gaining weight again (winter/xmas didn't
         | help). Switching back to Mounjaro at the moment, but having to
         | slowly step back up from a lower dose. Not expecting to see the
         | initial near-miraculous effects again, expecting to have to
         | combine it with some actual willpower and more exercise going
         | forwards.
        
           | skipkey wrote:
           | It's not just you. I've known several people who lost their
           | desire to drink beer specifically on these drugs. I didn't
           | personally experience it, but then I am more of a whiskey
           | guy.
        
           | jaggederest wrote:
           | The really beautiful thing now is that, with the evidence
           | from GLP-1 drugs as a class, we're seeing 3 things: new
           | targets for all kinds of things, that were previously
           | discarded as "too difficult to make into medication", and in
           | addition, injectable treatments - for a long, long time
           | anything that required injections was just ruled out at the
           | mechanism level. The third thing is that pharmaceutical
           | industry has learned how to hit multiple targets with a
           | single drug - previously most drugs were formulated to hit at
           | most one or two receptors, and now we're seeing work on quad
           | or 5-way drugs.
           | 
           | I'm super optimistic, the pipeline for future medications in
           | these classes and other related ones are enormous. Huge
           | effects both for me personally but for the world as a whole,
           | a world in which obesity and other chronic behavioral
           | conditions are treated more like cancer than smoking - even
           | smoking itself!
        
           | samuelson wrote:
           | I've had a similar experience where I'd be craving a beer,
           | but not really craving alcohol since wine or spirits didn't
           | sound appealing at all. I think it might actually be the hops
           | and not the alcohol.
           | 
           | I don't know if it's common in the UK, but in the US, a lot
           | of breweries have started making hop water. I've found that
           | it can really scratch that itch. Even just a hop tea might
           | work if you can't find pre-made hop water.
           | 
           | It sounds weird, but it's actually delicious with nice floral
           | and citrus notes and just enough bitterness that you don't
           | drink it too quickly.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | is Big Pharma going to invest in any of the other peptides or is
       | it just one and done?
       | 
       | because the underground grey market seems to be snowballing for
       | all kinds of diseases and symptoms
       | 
       | just very dangerous without any regulation
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | It seems like pharma developed many of them, but it takes a
         | while to get them to market.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Yes, this is a class of thing that is obviously being studied.
         | Check out tesamorelin etc. but there is also a Phase 1
         | somewhere for BPC-157.
         | 
         | The peptides themselves are being used for everything but
         | realistically, considering the costs, you have to innovate a
         | little. Here's a little example with GLP-1: the core biology
         | and mechanism were well understood. But use was like the grey
         | market peptides you were talking about: a daily injection. Half
         | life is super short because DPP4 chews through.
         | 
         | So you need some innovation first to make it last so that you
         | can bring it to market. Perhaps they misread the market and
         | didn't realize that for sufficient weight loss people would
         | inject daily. But anyway, the liraglutide, dulaglutide,
         | semaglutide, are various attempts at this to preserve function
         | while raising half life in the body.
         | 
         | If you want to accelerate this research you're really going to
         | have to reform the whole process of medical testing and this
         | and that but most things are not so dangerous that you need to
         | rush to release a drug. Not everything is COVID-19 or obesity.
         | Getting a PDA trial so some few people can heal faster from
         | workout injuries is probably going to be a hard sell, even on
         | this forum.
         | 
         | I'm of the view that the combination of grey market and clean
         | market supply is a great way to serve latent desire as well as
         | safe mass access.
         | 
         | One funny thing that a researcher told me (on seeing my lab
         | notebook of my retatrutide self tests) is that it complicates
         | baseline wide population studies. The total population is also
         | losing weight, not just known GLP-1RA users. It turns out
         | grandpa and grandma are reconstituting vials with BAC in New
         | Salem, Oklahoma.
        
       | monkpit wrote:
       | Typo in the title - "independant"
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | One thing we have to remember is that we don't know the long term
       | effects of these things. Just like we don't know the long term
       | effects of the MMR 2. The first infants vaccinated with that are
       | only in their fifties or early sixties. For all we know, the
       | measles vaccine insta-kills people at 70.
       | 
       | We don't know anything. We are complete ignorant floating through
       | the void. If I drop a rock and it falls I cannot tell if the next
       | rock I drop will fall. We can't know. We are unknowing. Anything
       | could happen.
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | I can't tell if this is a sarcastic response in bad taste, or
         | if it's an authentic, if misguided, opinion.
        
         | landryraccoon wrote:
         | Teenagers and people in their 20 don't need these drugs anyway,
         | and they're the ones who should be most concerned about long
         | term effects.
         | 
         | But people in their 50s and older? What long term effect is
         | going to show up before they die? At age 70 or 80 long term
         | effects are basically completely irrelevant.
        
         | rsyring wrote:
         | I think this is FUD. Haven't GLP-1s been around for 20+ year?
         | The recent surge in popularity was due to new formulas that
         | could be injected once per week instead of daily.
        
         | throwaway173738 wrote:
         | I know you're making fun of baseless skepticism here but I
         | remember seeing at least three different "miracle weight loss
         | drugs" hit the market, give people fantastic results, and then
         | get pulled years after some terrible long term side effects. I
         | also remember similar marketing around SSRIs like Paxil being
         | miraculous and GPs prescribing them to teenagers, and that did
         | not go well for teenage me. So forgive me if I'm a little
         | skeptical here.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Okay I confess to getting taken by this comment. I downvoted
         | and retracted. Sometimes sarcasm is too close to widely held
         | beliefs.
        
         | clhodapp wrote:
         | Good point. Perhaps if you take them for 40 years, you become
         | biologically immortal. Who can really say?
        
       | engelo_b wrote:
       | if this actually prevents expensive knee replacements, the ROI
       | for insurers should be a no-brainer. the challenge is the high
       | monthly cost vs long-term surgery savings it's hard to model when
       | people switch carriers every few years and take the health
       | benefit with them.
        
         | mirthflat83 wrote:
         | In theory, yes, but until these medications become generic, it
         | will continue to cause huge losses for insurance companies. The
         | cost of these medicines alone is worth more than premiums
        
       | cultofmetatron wrote:
       | I'll probably be downvoted for this but honestly it seems like a
       | lot of the benefits of semiglutide are literally just benefits of
       | fasting.
        
         | DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote:
         | You think fasting improves knee osteoarthritis independent of
         | weight loss?
        
           | cultofmetatron wrote:
           | fasting is generally highly correlative with weight loss. Its
           | also correlative with reduction in inflammation which is
           | often the underlying cause of arthritis in general. I also
           | would be curious to see what the outcome of fasting would be
           | in a person undertaking an 18 hour fast while consuming
           | enough calories during the feeding window to maintain a
           | caloric surplus.
        
       | MPSimmons wrote:
       | At what point do we start to re-evaluate and re-test old
       | assumptions about how much weight/caloric restriction impacts
       | things? It seems unlikely that a molecule that slots into
       | receptors in the pancreas _also_ does something(?) to cardiac
       | muscle [1], addiction [2], and now osteoarthritis(!).
       | 
       | This _feels_ like a stretch to say that this happens independent
       | of weight loss, and much more like we may have underestimated the
       | impacts of weight loss on all of these other facets of life.
       | 
       | [1] - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12431743/
       | 
       | [2] - https://med.stanford.edu/news/insights/2025/04/ozempic-
       | addic...
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | Why is that unlikely?
         | 
         | There are other known molecules that are many to many like
         | cortisol, testosterone, and insulin.
        
         | pertymcpert wrote:
         | I mean...if you read the paper they control for that.
        
         | estearum wrote:
         | Hormones do a lot all over your body.
         | 
         | You're commenting on a paper that specifically found OA
         | improvement without weight loss improvement...
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | There's GLP-1 receptors in the brain, they induce neurogenesis
        
         | kixiQu wrote:
         | FTFA:
         | 
         | > By designing a precise diet-controlled setting to rule out
         | the effect of appetite suppression and weight loss induced by
         | SG, we demonstrate a weight loss-independent mechanism.
        
         | FeteCommuniste wrote:
         | > addition [2]
         | 
         | I had heard about the effects on addiction but this typo had me
         | thinking there might be some effect on arithmetic ability, too.
        
           | MPSimmons wrote:
           | sorry, fixed!
        
         | rustyhancock wrote:
         | Similar reports have been ongoing about Metformin (another
         | medication used for diabetes that causes weight loss and
         | improves metabolic profile).
         | 
         | It's the simplest explanation that we have been underestimating
         | just how unhealthy we are?
         | 
         | There's a synergy here, eat healthier, reduce blood sugar
         | spikes, lose weight. And you are healthier than each individual
         | effect alone would cause.
         | 
         | Maybe we're just ruining our bodies even if we don't put on
         | weight by eating sugary foods that spoke our blood sugar. Or
         | big meals that constantly make us switch into sit down and
         | digest mode.
         | 
         | I'm open to something more happening but this isn't just GLPs.
         | It seems we have uniquely attacked our bodies in a way that
         | diabetes is the ultimate result but the entire journey is
         | exquisitely toxic to our physiology.
         | 
         | Maybe fasting helps. Maybe keto helps. But this is similar to
         | people who live off McDonalds suddenly go vegan and become
         | healthy, is veganism that great? Or was the alternative for you
         | just so awful for you?
        
           | ericmay wrote:
           | > There's a synergy here, eat healthier, reduce blood sugar
           | spikes, lose weight.
           | 
           | I'm not a doctor, this isn't medical advice, I'm just
           | bullshitting on the Internet. I know this is a controversial
           | topic and the science doesn't appear to be settled.
           | 
           | My understanding about how artificial sweeteners work in part
           | is that they don't have a caloric impact but still cause an
           | insulin response. I've avoided them as best as I can. Some
           | people believe there's a free ride to be had with them -
           | drink Diet Coke and nothing happens, but I'm not so sure
           | that's the case.
           | 
           | If a sugary drink causes an insulin response, and perhaps
           | that response is different of course, but if it causes an
           | insulin response, and so do "sugar-free" drinks - we seem to
           | be in a world where a large number of people are still
           | dealing with issues related to sugar that they maybe aren't
           | expecting. I just have a hard time believe there's a free
           | ride with "sugar-free" drinks. This response probably leads
           | to more cravings for so-called empty calories. A lot of
           | people I find viscously defend "sugar-free" drinks which
           | leads me to suspect there's something there too.
           | 
           | If you grow up with an awful diet, like I did, not centered
           | around so-called whole foods and actual cooking I think you
           | wind up in a vicious cycle of sugar, sugar substitutes, and
           | other empty-calorie style foods that all feed the same
           | biological addiction mechanism. You get fatter and fatter and
           | no amount of exercise will work (you can't outrun a bad diet)
           | and then add in our modern lifestyle and of course we're all
           | pretty dang sick.
        
             | david-gpu wrote:
             | _> My understanding about how artificial sweeteners work in
             | part is that they don 't have a caloric impact but still
             | cause an insulin response._
             | 
             | Some sweeteners appear to trigger insulin secretion, some
             | don't.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/sweeteners
             | 
             | [1] https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/study-review-do-
             | sweetene...
        
               | rustyhancock wrote:
               | Interestingly seeing, or smelling foods can cause insulin
               | release[0]. Perhaps it's not surprising that tasting
               | foods would.
               | 
               | But it does make me wonder. If evolution was so concerned
               | about blood sugar control it led to insulin release even
               | before you ate (and that in evolutionary terms foods were
               | very low in sugar and simple carbs). What must a doughnut
               | do to our physiology?
               | 
               | [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii
               | /002604...
        
               | ericmay wrote:
               | > What must a doughnut do to our physiology?
               | 
               | Maybe that's why my hair is falling out!
               | 
               | Interesting article (to both of you actually). Thanks for
               | sharing.
        
               | jvandreae wrote:
               | That article seems a bit misleading. While some
               | _sweetener packets_ , such as equal and splenda contain
               | some sugar, I don't believe this is necessarily true when
               | they are used in other products. A quick google implies
               | that, for example, Diet Coke (my beloved) does not
               | contain any real sugar, only aspartame. So it seems
               | disingenuous to compare the metabolic impact of a
               | sugar/aspartame blend to pure aspartame.
        
               | david-gpu wrote:
               | The article goes into a lot more depth than that and
               | contains links to the peer-reviewed research that it is
               | summarizing.
        
         | cthalupa wrote:
         | If they're not losing weight they're not restricting calories.
         | Energy has to come from somewhere.
         | 
         | They explicitly controlled for all of this.
        
       | lookdangerous wrote:
       | Ok it makes sense now. This is fasting.
        
         | dupdup wrote:
         | yes and ramadan is coming lets do the fasting and get healthier
         | :) it is a little bit long but we will see
        
       | 01100011 wrote:
       | Funny, after semaglutide I developed moderate arthritis in my
       | MTP(foot) joint.
       | 
       | I wonder if it was gout because it seemed to come on fast. They
       | say semaglutide shouldn't cause gout but I'm not convinced. It
       | has some very weird effects on my hydration. I drink a fair
       | amount of water, but specifically at night I now have to urinate
       | a dozen times throughout the night and wake up with my mouth
       | almost dried shut.
       | 
       | I've lost 10% of my bodyweight(probably >1/3 muscle, sadly) which
       | is great and it's taking the load off my joints, but man this
       | foot thing is a bummer. I need to find a sports Dr because most
       | foot docs seem to take the "just stop running/hiking and switch
       | to biking/swimming" approach which doesn't work for me.
        
         | pertymcpert wrote:
         | That kind of damage takes many years. Do you have scans from
         | prior years? I also discovered I have arthritis in the ankle
         | recently and there were no pain symptoms, only joint
         | instability and issues higher up on the leg. This was probably
         | caused by either genetics or ankle trauma from childhood that
         | eventually reared its head in my 30s.
        
           | 01100011 wrote:
           | My last x-ray in 11/2022 was perfect. Good joint spacing and
           | no degenerative changes. That's over 3 years ago now though.
           | 
           | One thing I think changed for me was that I switched to WFH
           | full-time and wearing crocs all day. My arches subsequently
           | collapsed. I have joint stiffness now as well, but the x-ray
           | didn't show anything so I think it's perhaps sinus tarsi pain
           | from the compression due to over-pronation.
        
         | randycupertino wrote:
         | If it is gout you should try eating cherries I have seen them
         | be incredibly helpful.
         | 
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6914931/
         | 
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22124...
        
       | framebit wrote:
       | GLP-1 and GIP are both hormones the human body makes in the gut.
       | The famous drugs are mimicking those hormones. This is more akin
       | to taking supplemental testosterone than it is to taking Fen-Phen
       | or whatever.
        
       | wolfi1 wrote:
       | I'm always wary of such claims as it is not unusual for companies
       | to extend the use of their drugs, after all the patent expires in
       | some years
        
       | cantalopes wrote:
       | I hope this goes through clinical trials before my joints degrade
       | completely
        
       | joofbro wrote:
       | did anyone actually read the article to figure out if these
       | results are at all reliable?
        
       | overtone1000 wrote:
       | Why are studies on mice so popular on HN?
        
       | vb-8448 wrote:
       | I wonder if the real problem is that we are really sick, and we
       | just don't realize it: weight and eating too much processed food,
       | so anything that improve these 2 aspects has also a lot of
       | uncorrelated benefits.
        
         | NetMageSCW wrote:
         | We don't see lots of stories about how dieting causes cartilage
         | to grow back.
        
       | gwern wrote:
       | Fulltext:
       | https://gwern.net/doc/longevity/glp/semaglutide/2026-qin.pdf
        
       | amluto wrote:
       | Most of the results here are in mice, but they apparently did a
       | small pilot study in humans:
       | 
       | https://www.chictr.org.cn/showprojEN.html?proj=176336
       | 
       | To the extent that there are results, they're paywalled. But,
       | oddly, the _entire article_ appears to be posted in the
       | supplemental information section:
       | 
       | https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.cmet.2026.01.008/attachme...
       | 
       | From Figure 1, the effect size in mice was fairly large.
       | 
       | Pages 9 and 10 give a very brief description of the human trial.
       | It looks like they did not make any effort to disentangle effects
       | due to weight loss from effects independent of weight loss in
       | humans. The humans in the study group had a 17% _increase_ in
       | knee cartilage thickness, and the dose used was (see page e3):
       | 
       | "Participants receiving SG treatment initiated with a dose of
       | 0.25 mg in the first week, and increased the dose in a stepwise
       | manner each subsequent week until reaching the target dose of 0.5
       | mg/week (incremental steps of 0.125 mg)."
       | 
       | AIUI this matches the current recommended starting dosage for
       | diabetes and is considerably lower than the dosages used for
       | weight loss.
        
       | tsoukase wrote:
       | Currently there is a torrent of research on the benefits of
       | GLP1s. This raises doubts as most are not backed by solid
       | hypothesis. The same happened almost a century earlier when
       | aspirin was explored as super drug. A key metric is the NNT
       | (number needed to treat), ie how many people should take the drug
       | for one to meet the primary goal.
        
       | spiewart wrote:
       | I have to chime in here. The full text is paywalled but if you
       | have a subscription or institutional access the devil is in the
       | details.
       | 
       | The "pilot study" the authors performed was an n=20 with 30%
       | dropout, meaning 14 finished the study, 6/10 in the non-
       | semaglutide arm and 8/10 in the semaglutide arm. They did not
       | include participants who dropped out in their final analyses
       | which is a big methodological flaw. I could go on about their
       | choice in and measurement of outcomes, but suffice to say with
       | only 14 participants these results should be taken with a grain
       | of salt.
       | 
       | Further, they did extensive molecular biological studies in mice.
       | There have been MANY (dozens) of murine (mouse) studies showing
       | beneficial effects of various compounds / interventions on mouse
       | knee osteoarthritis. None of them have translated into a therapy
       | for the human disease. Mice live 2-3 years and have very
       | different knee biomechanics than humans.
       | 
       | Appreciate the authors investigative efforts, but more
       | confirmatory studies are needed before I'll be injecting
       | semaglutide into my knee.
        
       | DerekL wrote:
       | Title is misspelled, should be "independent".
        
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