[HN Gopher] Technocracy 2.0
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       Technocracy 2.0
        
       Author : antonomon
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2026-02-04 20:06 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (brooklynrail.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (brooklynrail.org)
        
       | nahuel0x wrote:
       | Technocracy had both socialist proponents like Charles Steinmetz
       | and also anti-communists racists/fascists like Joshua Haldeman
       | (Elon Musk grandfather). In some ways technocracy is the
       | acknowledging of the necessity of economy planning to transcend
       | capitalism but without taking into account class struggle. That
       | way, it can be seen like a good-willed engineer dream that
       | doesn't wants to face social reality or thinks socialist like
       | planning can be implemented just by convincing capitalists it's
       | advantages for the entire society (somewhat like the old utopian
       | socialism / fabianism)... or, it can be used as an ideological
       | cover-up to sell the dream of a brighter future but without
       | questioning the billonarie class, the concentration of capital or
       | the property of the means of production, while avoiding taking
       | explicit positions in every class struggle instance.
       | 
       | I think this new version is the latter case, a bad rehearsal used
       | as a veil of the ascent of fascism in the States.
        
         | DiscourseFan wrote:
         | War is violent and mucky and you never know if you're going to
         | make it out on the other side. I think a great value of Marx's
         | later work is the reminder of its inevitability. All we can do
         | is prepare and hope it works out better this time.
        
         | throwway120385 wrote:
         | > I think this new version is the latter case, a bad rehearsal
         | used as a veil of the ascent of fascism in the States.
         | 
         | I've found over time that one man's utopia is another's hellish
         | nightmare. This is true of every utopia and should be a pretty
         | strong argument against implementing them at all.
        
       | cadamsdotcom wrote:
       | It could also be simple. This looks like a bunch of very high
       | profile people in a fast changing environment, just doing their
       | best not to become targets, and helping consolidate power is a
       | side effect.
       | 
       | The time will come when it's rational for powerful people to make
       | a stand - but that time has not yet arrived. According to the
       | pattern, society has to go through a dark time first. Probably so
       | there's something to contrast against.
       | 
       | The most tragic thing is how many museums we already have - all
       | over the world! - that tell this story.
        
         | throwway120385 wrote:
         | > The time will come when it's rational for powerful people to
         | make a stand - but that time has not yet arrived. According to
         | the pattern, society has to go through a dark time first.
         | Probably so there's something to contrast against.
         | 
         | What do you mean, "make a stand?"
        
           | IncreasePosts wrote:
           | Adding a rainbow flag to their product for June 1 2029 until
           | June 30 2029
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | > The time will come when it's rational for powerful people to
         | make a stand -
         | 
         | Stand for what? They all seem to gain from this so I am not
         | sure where your logic is coming from.
         | 
         | > According to the pattern, society has to go through a dark
         | time first.
         | 
         | This sounds like a stereotypical hollywood story and not an
         | actual thoughtful response to what is actually going on.
        
           | cadamsdotcom wrote:
           | It's a stereotype for a reason..
           | 
           | People need to see how bad it can get before they'll care.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | The rich men of SV belong to a narrow generation cohort, genX and
       | early millenials. They were overgrown kids in 2006 and had no
       | political ambitions. In 2016 they still didn't so they voted
       | against the grain. in 2026 they are over 40 and willing to bend
       | to whatever makes the rest of their life easier.
       | 
       | In reality it's a bunch of children that were "socialists in
       | their teens , conservatives as adults" (but because socialism was
       | bad taste their only choice was libertarianism). They are still
       | not very old, not very evil. They have some way to go. Musk is
       | 52, Thiel is 58, Zuck is 41. Wait to see what happens after 65...
       | the culture of technologists will take a very dark turn
        
       | leggerss wrote:
       | Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism
       | presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and
       | preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey
       | uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The
       | god they're sacrificed to? "Technological progress"
       | 
       | I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's
       | disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if expressing
       | an aesthetic preference weren't an optimal way to spend one's
       | time or money. Better to spend those things "optimizing
       | efficiency" or optimizing oneself/one's own life
       | 
       | It seems like Thiel and co _don't actually care about other
       | people_ or human welfare writ large. This isn't a novel
       | observation, but it bears repeating
       | 
       | It's mirrored in something I ask myself every time I hear that
       | Thiel is a "libertarian" _while also_ being the founder of the
       | biggest surveillance dragnet ever created: what about
       | surveillance is libertarian? I thought libertarians were all
       | about "live and let live" and "stay out of my business". It's the
       | opposite. But I guess what he really wants is "freedom for me,
       | surveillance for thee". Again, not a novel observation, but it
       | finally clicked into place for me reading this piece
       | 
       | The state integration and the separatist fantasy aren't competing
       | visions, though; you build the surveillance infrastructure inside
       | the state, then exit into your own enclave that benefits from it.
       | It all feels like a way to create the world depicted in Margaret
       | Atwood's Maddaddam trilogy (fantastic if you haven't read it):
       | corporate enclaves with private security built for employees and
       | their families with lawless "pleeblands" outside the walls
        
         | pixelready wrote:
         | There's really two types of people that tend to be drawn to
         | libertarianism at some point: humanists and narcissists.
         | 
         | Those who are fundamentally humanist want to tear down systems
         | of oppression because it pains them to see their fellow humans
         | abused and brought low by corrupt laws and regulations. They
         | (perhaps naively) imagine that if the system was dismantled or
         | at least shrunk to minimum size, basic human decency will step
         | in to fill the vacuum and people will thrive. Folks like Penn
         | Gillette are the face of this group.
         | 
         | The narcissists are drawn to the movement because they feel
         | like "if only everyone would get out of my way, I can do GREAT
         | THINGS(tm) ". They like ideas like social Darwinism because
         | they are already privileged enough to not be worried about
         | losing in a survival of the fittest contest, and don't tend to
         | concern themselves with the second order effects of dismantling
         | the system because it is simply an immoral impediment to their
         | greatness. Peter Thiel and folks like him are the face of this
         | group. This is largely the strain that has taken root in SV.
        
           | servo_sausage wrote:
           | I see a whole lot more that end up at libertarianism as
           | almost the default answer to "what philosophy most emphasis
           | less government".
           | 
           | It's a generational thing I think, you see public money being
           | spent on junk, and laws used to entrench and make competition
           | hard; and you think "why do we want the government to do
           | these things at all?". And if you look at common ideas around
           | 20 years ago, the default answer was libertarianism.
        
           | HappySweeney wrote:
           | fwiw Penn Gillette no longer calls himself a libertarian.
        
         | servo_sausage wrote:
         | Libertarianism doesn't mesh well with reality; the government
         | doing less is part of it, but it also requires a way for people
         | to efficiently protect their property.
         | 
         | So you get to a point where mass surveillance is justified by
         | the anti-crime angle; there is no contradiction, libertarianism
         | logic where you can live and let live requires no crime...
        
         | like_any_other wrote:
         | > I ask myself every time I hear that Thiel is a "libertarian"
         | _while also_ being the founder of the biggest surveillance
         | dragnet ever created: what about surveillance is libertarian?
         | 
         | Surveillance does not directly violate the non-aggression
         | principle, and a myopic adherence to minimal principles without
         | any consideration to where they lead is the central feature of
         | libertarianism.
        
       | lbrito wrote:
       | >More recently, Srinivasan has been proselytizing a new belief
       | that he likens to "tech Zionism."38 Tech elites had to exit
       | democracy and settle sovereign territories of their own. These
       | peripheral islands of tech utopianism would in time unite,
       | eventually accruing enough capital and power to challenge the
       | nation-state. They would oversee a new tribe of loyal citizens
       | dressed in matching gray. "If you see another gray on the
       | street... you do a nod. You're a fellow gray."39
       | 
       | This makes the Roko's Basilisk post seem sane and reasonable
        
         | mhog_hn wrote:
         | Asimov's Foundation series
        
       | swagman8 wrote:
       | This is some Fallout material right here !
        
       | jongjong wrote:
       | This is like communism in the sense that it's sold as one thing,
       | but serves another purpose for a different set of people than
       | those it was marketed to.
       | 
       | Having worked as a software engineer in the industry for almost
       | 15 years, my experience is that the leading (elite) proponents of
       | this philosophy don't really care about tech or innovation; they
       | only care to the extent that they control the innovation.
       | 
       | Any innovation created outside of their sphere of control will be
       | ignored and suppressed (as best as possible). It's ironic because
       | this is how they view China's tech sector. I remember reading an
       | article about DeepSeek and the author made a comment about how it
       | was developed independently of government by a relatively small
       | company and how unusual this is for China; surprised that they
       | were able to build without the blessing of the CCP... But the US
       | works the same way! Except instead of the CCP, the power is
       | called Big VC.
       | 
       | Anyway this is the past 20 years or so. I'm skeptical of this
       | model. I'm quite sure, as a tech guy, I would do better in a
       | strict hard-money capitalist system, even if I just did software
       | as a side project. Right now it's just too centralized and
       | monopolized and there are perverse incentives keeping everything
       | locked in. It used to be that a 10x solution could get you
       | noticed, now nothing will get you noticed besides the right
       | technocratic pedigree.
        
         | direwolf20 wrote:
         | "Every accusation is a confession" they say
        
       | keybored wrote:
       | Technocracy is fascinating because the ideology is either an
       | intentional obfuscation about what politics is at its core, or an
       | ideology for well-educated and absolutely politically illiterate
       | people.
       | 
       | "Don't make this political." See, right there? That's the entire
       | shtick. The negation of the political. Repeat that very political
       | mantra until it takes hold. Until the political philosophy of
       | not-politics has won.
       | 
       | Politics is conflicts of interests between persons and groups. A
       | political problem is a people problem. A technical problem has a
       | technical and objective solution. Fifty different interests does
       | not have a technical solution.
       | 
       | Or does it? Everything is dynamic, and one person's supposed
       | technical problem is a political problem for another one. But mix
       | the two together? Then it becomes a political problem unless the
       | first one manages to dominate the other.
        
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       (page generated 2026-02-04 23:00 UTC)