[HN Gopher] China Moon Mission: Aiming for 2030 lunar landing
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       China Moon Mission: Aiming for 2030 lunar landing
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2026-02-03 19:32 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | PassingClouds wrote:
       | It is interesting to see who will get there first. China seems to
       | be right on target with their schedule, but the US is being more
       | ambitious, this also looks a bit more fragile on execution.
       | 
       | I long suspect Blue Origin will be the first US based to touch
       | down as Starship is just too complicated to get it done in the
       | next 2-3 years, but that doesnt mean even the 2028 landing is
       | assured.
       | 
       | Space exploration had been fairly low key for decades but the
       | last decade has been something to see.
        
         | chihuahua wrote:
         | Maybe my date calculations are off, but I think the people that
         | landed on the moon on July 20, 1969 got there first. According
         | to my calculations, if China lands people on the moon in 2030,
         | that will be approximately 61 years later. The people that got
         | there 61 years earlier can be reasonably said to have gotten
         | there first.
         | 
         | Oddly enough, the same country also accomplished the second,
         | third, fourth, fifth, and sixth landing on the moon by humans.
         | So if all goes well, China can be extremely triumphant with
         | their highly anticipated seventh place trophy.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | And as we all know, successful enterprises are always the
           | ones which do something once and then never again for 61
           | years. /S
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | They did it 5 more times. Are the goalposts moving so that
             | you have to do something 7 times before it counts?
             | 
             | They stopped doing more moon missions in the 70s because
             | people lost interest very quickly and nobody cared anymore.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | No I'm poking fun at the defensive reflex of Americans to
               | get very upset at the notion anyone else will go to the
               | moon. Because in context, who will get their first is the
               | relevant question again because _no one_ has the
               | capability anymore.
               | 
               | It was perfectly clear in context that the OP was talking
               | about the new space race where the question is which
               | modern superpower will get there first. It's just
               | hilarious that so many Americans immediately begin
               | talking about how really _they_ got their truly first, in
               | an effort to pretend they couldn 't understand and change
               | the question to one which doesn't hurt their ego.
               | 
               | The America which landed on the moon in the 1960s is dead
               | and buried. And the America which said it's going to land
               | on the moon again _hasn 't done it yet_ and it's not
               | clear that it can.
        
           | throwui wrote:
           | One was coloniser and another one was a colony. That's why
           | 61y gap
        
             | wtodr wrote:
             | Based
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _One was coloniser and another one was a colony_
             | 
             | This is an America-centric geopolitical model with zero
             | predictive power.
             | 
             | China annexed Tibet in 1951 [1]. Xinjiang has been fighting
             | colonization from the Qings, Soviets, Nationalists and PRC
             | for over a century.
             | 
             | [1]
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_China
        
               | chihuahua wrote:
               | I think GP was referring to the fact that the United
               | States is made up of former colonies of Great Britain,
               | but that was such a long time ago, I don't see how it
               | matters for the moon landing.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | It's a neo-leftist international model that divides
               | everyone into colonizer and colonized nations without
               | particular regard for history or reality. The former are
               | bad and powerful. The latter weak and victims.
               | 
               | It offers no predictions, policy prescriptions beyond
               | railing and an infinity of excuses for justifying pretty
               | much anything for the latter and against the former, down
               | to subgroups within each nation.
        
               | RobotToaster wrote:
               | It was part of China since 1720, it briefly declared
               | independence in 1913 but that was recognised by no
               | foreign nation [0]
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | Correct. Conquered or colonized in 1720 [1]. A century
               | before the British colonized China with almost the same
               | model (small garrison, literal Mandarin in charge). Put
               | another way, the British controlled Hong Kong for longer
               | than China has Tibet.
               | 
               | The coloniser-colonised model works in the New World.
               | It's silly outside it as a general model. (And it
               | misfires completely when comparing America and China.
               | Both were colonies. Both have colonized and hegemonised.)
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_expedition_to_T
               | ibet_(1...
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | Indeed, the 13 colonies that formed the United States in
             | 1776 were a colony of Great Britain up to that point, but
             | what does that have to do with the moon landing? In the
             | 1960s, neither country was a colony of any other country.
             | 
             | But regardless, I will congratulate China wholeheartedly on
             | its 7th place, if and when that happens.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | Neither the current space race nor the cold-war era space
           | race have anything to do with planting a flag in a history
           | book. They are geopolitical dick measuring contests of
           | contemporary power.
           | 
           | The current question isn't "is it possible?", it is "who can
           | pull it off today?"
        
           | nancyminusone wrote:
           | The people from 61 years ago are either extremely old or
           | dead. Of the other three-quarters of the world population
           | born after December 19, 1972, none have made it there; it
           | will be a first for them.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | Are you talking about Mars? Moon happened a while back.
        
           | tartoran wrote:
           | Mars is Elon Musk fantasy. Manned missions to Mars are
           | extremely dangerous and pointless at this time.
        
         | georgeburdell wrote:
         | Watch China's announcements year to year and you'll see their
         | plans do change. Long March 9 has gone through enough design
         | iterations that I wouldn't even call it the same rocket anymore
        
       | hdivider wrote:
       | This space race is different for one core reason: China is more
       | stable than the Soviet Union was in the 1960s.
       | 
       | If we beat the Chinese somehow, I don't think they'll just
       | dismantle their space program and focus on Earth. They'll keep
       | going, and they have the economic base to expand their program.
       | 
       | I think we're seeing the beginning of a new kind of space race.
       | It's likely to be much longer term and grander in scale over
       | time, as we compete for the best spots on the Moon and the first
       | human landing on Mars in the decades to come.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _China is more stable than the Soviet Union was in the 1960s_
         | 
         | Xi literally just purged "the country's top military leader,
         | Gen. Zhang Youxia, and an associate, Gen. Liu Zhenli" [1].
         | 
         | This is the mark of a dictator. Not the Soviet Union at its
         | finest.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/03/us/politics/china-xi-
         | mili...
        
           | wtodr wrote:
           | This is the same trite bullshit we've been hearing for
           | decades. Look at where China is today.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _the same trite bullshit we've been hearing for decades_
             | 
             | Nope. It isn't. Xi has ruled China like a dictator that
             | breaks the tradition of intraparty competition the CCP has
             | had since Mao.
             | 
             | When Xi ended his Wolf Warrior nonsense it seemed to signal
             | a reset. Now we have this nonsense.
             | 
             | > _Look at where China is today_
             | 
             | Look at where America is today. Both are richer than
             | they've ever been. More militarily potent than ever. Both
             | are growing their economies, militaries and territorial
             | ambitions. Both have serious issues, including the
             | gerontocratic oligarchic consolidation of power at the
             | expense of national interests.
        
               | SilverElfin wrote:
               | Not that I disagree, but I'm curious how you define
               | national interests.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _curious how you define national interests_
               | 
               | My metric would be what the country's population today
               | and weighted populations of the future, if they could
               | weigh in, would choose.
               | 
               | It's possible to frame _ex post facto_ and impossible to
               | pin down in the present. And it's inherently subjective
               | and culturally relative. But it's useful to reason with,
               | including for finding patterns in history.
               | 
               | One pattern is the cost of corruption. If a leader is
               | making billions off their power, they're putting person
               | about polity. That's currently true in America [1] and
               | China [2][3]. The difference is America has a chance to
               | fix that in '28. China used to rotate leaders. But Xi
               | fucked that up. (Note the language similarity between the
               | above comment and how MAGA defends itself. "Trite
               | bullshit." Beijing has a hidden MACA problem, it's just
               | had a tougher time dealing with it because Xi reveres
               | Mao.)
               | 
               | [1] https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/spy-sheikh-
               | secret-stake-...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/18/world/asia/chinas-
               | preside...
               | 
               | [3] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2025/mar/20/us-
               | intel-sa...
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | > Look at where America is today. Both are richer than
               | they've ever been. More militarily potent than ever.
               | 
               | just don't look at the first derivative vs china
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | The argument is the reflexive defensiveness works-and is
               | raised--in both cases. Premature declarations of victory
               | have _never_ been a historic sign of strength.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Keep in mind that China is not where it is today because of
             | Xi. He could take it further for sure but so can he press
             | the wrong buttons. It remains to be seen how China fares in
             | the next few decades.
        
               | fakedang wrote:
               | Yep, China was on a massive and insane growth trajectory
               | prior to Xi. Xi's policies and constant banging of war
               | drums at Taiwan's door has cost China massively in terms
               | of foreign investment and even knowledge transfer
               | opportunities (by the ever-gullible West).
        
               | RobotToaster wrote:
               | He's doing a better job than Zhao Ziyang, that's for
               | sure.
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | The question is rather: Where could China have been today
             | if it started opening up decades earlier?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Where could China have been today if it started
               | opening up decades earlier?_
               | 
               | Or without Mao being a trash fire of a leader. (Flip
               | side: where would they be without Deng or Zemin, or
               | others in the CCP who put nation above personal interest?
               | The folks Xi is killing because they threaten his
               | personal interests.)
        
               | baxtr wrote:
               | Maybe the combination of capitalism + democracy is so
               | successful because it aligns the incentives of leaders
               | and the masses best (to the extent possible).
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | My takeaway from China is democracy is less important
               | than political competition. Between Mao and Xi, the CCP
               | had the latter without the former. Today, America has the
               | former and is struggling to keep the latter.
        
               | baxtr wrote:
               | Yes agreed. But competition for what?
               | 
               | I'd say for the good of the majority of the people.
               | 
               | In other systems only those on top profit (maybe 10-20%
               | max) even if they claim otherwise.
               | 
               | Thus democracy, through competition, aligns the leader's
               | incentive with their people best.
        
               | standardUser wrote:
               | China had fallen behind long before Mao, after being
               | among the most powerful and advanced nations for most of
               | recorded history. It appears to now be stepping back into
               | that familiar role.
        
               | Fricken wrote:
               | Neither China or the West handled the transition to
               | industrial civilization well. A key difference is that
               | most Chinese died due to incompetence on the part of
               | their leaders, but in the west they mostly murdered one
               | another on purpose.
               | 
               | Once again a Nazi is in charge of the western world's
               | most advanced rocket program.
        
             | subw00f wrote:
             | It's amazing. The American president is quite literally
             | creating a parallel military force to jail and kill people
             | on the streets, they're arresting opposing journalists,
             | politicians, pressuring tv channels and news organizations
             | to fire people, invading countries without congressional
             | approval, threatening allies with annexation for no fucking
             | reason, dismantling any social programs left, and all of
             | that led by a proven pedophile billionaire that was the
             | customer and friend of a huge human trafficker, as were
             | most of his billionaire friends who he favors with
             | absolutely no shame.
             | 
             | And this is just the latest news coming from over there. I
             | won't mention the fact that there are people alive today
             | who couldn't drink from the same fountain as other people
             | because their skin is dark. It was never fucking great.
             | 
             | So if you are American and still talk all this shit about
             | China being a dictatorship and authoritarian this and
             | "purge" that, I wish you would honestly shut the fuck up.
             | Really. You are in no position to have an informed opinion
             | on this because all of your information is force fed down
             | your throat by half a dozen mega companies that are in bed
             | with your regime.
             | 
             | So yeah, I'm sure China has a lot of issues, but if you
             | didn't live there for some time or even speak the language
             | for that matter, just shut the fuck the up.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _if you are American and still talk all this shit about
               | China being a dictatorship and authoritarian this and
               | "purge" that, I wish you would honestly shut the fuck up.
               | Really. You are in no position to have an informed
               | opinion on this because all of your information is force
               | fed_
               | 
               | Bit defensive there, eh?
               | 
               | China is an autocracy and Xi is acting in the predictably
               | self-destructive ways a dictator does. The U.S. is
               | heading down that same path, with Trump practically
               | mimicking Xi. N = 2 doesn't weaken an argument. And folks
               | who lived through the Nazis saying they see similar veins
               | today doesn't undermine their credibility.
               | 
               | (The hilarity of it is if you take your comment and
               | replace China and America with partisan or pro-American
               | coding, you could pop it out of Hegseth's office and it
               | would be right at home. Your comment almost seals the
               | point that Xi is all the problems of MAGA, except polling
               | China instead.)
        
               | subw00f wrote:
               | Yes, I'm aware how ignorant I may sound, but it's so
               | goddamn frustrating to read this kind of bullshit
               | everytime I come to an American platform.
               | 
               | Ok, China is an autocracy, right? Could you explain to me
               | how China conduct elections? Can you explain to me how
               | they approve laws? Do they have a constitution? A justice
               | system? Try answering these questions without much
               | looking up and even if you do, please note the sources.
               | No need to answer me really. Just ask yourself whether
               | you know this or not and how qualified are you to
               | actually label a HUGE state like China with one single
               | heavily charged word.
        
               | elzbardico wrote:
               | The US is not an autocracy, is a mix between a plutocracy
               | and a gerontocracy.
        
           | hdivider wrote:
           | I agree there is a lot of chaos over there, and numerous
           | challenges. But I don't see China collapsing anytime soon,
           | nothing like the Soviet Union. It's going to be a long-term
           | space race.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _I don 't see China collapsing anytime soon, nothing like
             | the Soviet Union_
             | 
             | I don't either. But the Soviet Union's space programme lost
             | its steam in the 1970s. (Venus was its last ambitious
             | achievement.)
             | 
             | If China gets bogged down in Taiwan because Xi fired every
             | military expert who might disagree with him, that's going
             | to cost them the space race. (Same as if America decides to
             | replicate the Sino-Soviet split with Europe over Greenland.
             | We can't afford a competitive space programme at that
             | point.)
        
               | adventured wrote:
               | There's a question as to whether China's surplus
               | capability is enough to overflow the deprivation that a
               | space program might suffer in a chaos Taiwan scenario.
               | 
               | Their resources and capabilities are obviously
               | substantial and sustained (not going anywhere). The USSR
               | had only a few patches of sustained serious economic
               | output, the rest of the time was rolling from one
               | disaster to another, one deprivation after another.
               | 
               | It seems entirely plausible that China getting bogged
               | down in Taiwan wouldn't be enough to deprive them of a
               | run to the Moon. The US was able to sustain NASA during
               | Iraq-Afghanistan, and go to the Moon during the Vietnam
               | War (plus cultural chaos).
               | 
               | That said, China isn't going to get bogged down in
               | Taiwan. It's going to unfortunately be easier than most
               | are imagining. China will ultimately regret not moving on
               | the island sooner when they see how easy it's going to be
               | to take it and how weak the US response will be (the US
               | can't sustain a stand-off with China in that region for
               | more than a few weeks before folding, unless it's willing
               | to go to full war mode economically (which it's not)).
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _seems entirely plausible that China getting bogged
               | down in Taiwan wouldn 't be enough to deprive them of a
               | run to the Moon. The US was able to sustain NASA during
               | Iraq-Afghanistan_
               | 
               | We probably lost basing on the Moon because Bush went
               | into Iraq.
               | 
               | China getting bogged down in Taiwan means more political
               | repression, more restiveness in Xinjiang and--if New
               | Delhi isn't totally stupid--needing to prop up Pakistan
               | and its strategic fronts in the Himalayas. It also almost
               | certainly means demand destruction in Europe, the EU and
               | ASEAN.
               | 
               | > _China isn 't going to get bogged down in Taiwan. It's
               | going to unfortunately be easier than most are imagining_
               | 
               | The same people saying this today had hot takes on Kyiv
               | falling in '21.
               | 
               | China invading Taiwan demilitarized Japan and India. It
               | fundamentally changes its doorstep in ways that incur
               | costs. To the Soviets, Afghanistan. To America, Iraq and
               | possibly Greenland. To China, Taiwan.
               | 
               | (And let's be clear: this is a vanity project for Xi.
               | Taiwan would have voted, eventually, to peacefully join
               | China if pre-Xi trends continued. But he needed it on his
               | watch. Hence the stupidity.)
        
               | wafflemaker wrote:
               | >The same people saying this today had hot takes on Kyiv
               | falling in '21.
               | 
               | Please note that Kiev not falling after a week in '22
               | (assuming you misspelled) was pure luck. Russians had
               | extreme advantage in man and firepower. They made a big
               | mistake by using their army against their doctrine - not
               | bombing/shelling targets before attacking (what Russian
               | army was designed for).
               | 
               | But them losing the war (at least the first week) is due
               | to a few lucky dice rolls for us. Us both Europe, but
               | also for me as a Polish expat, knowing my brothers and
               | friends are not dying right now fighting Russian army
               | with all the Ukrainians conscripted into it.
               | 
               | These lucky dice rolls that I can come up from memory: 1.
               | Shooting down one of two military passenger planes with
               | russian Seals that were to take Kiev's Hostomel airport
               | and open an air bridge. The group from the plane that
               | survived did take the airfields, but they couldn't decide
               | on their own to move and take the airports buildings - no
               | distributed command in Russia at that point. Thanks to
               | that, local territorial defence managed to easily kill
               | these elite forces. 2. Fast and generous support from
               | England in form of Javelins that limited Russian heavy
               | equipment advantage. Sorry if I don't credit the
               | countries involved correctly. 3. Fast and generous aid
               | with post soviet equipment from old Warsaw pact
               | countries. These tanks could be used right away as they
               | required no re-training. 4. General incompetence and duty
               | negligence that was systemic in Soviets and is still
               | systemic in Russia. To that we owe cars running out of
               | fuel, or having their tires pop, because, against orders
               | to regularly move them, they all sat with sun damaging
               | one side of the tire so many years, while the responsible
               | for maintenance were drinking vodka and eating pierogi
               | with kielbasa.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | > pure luck
               | 
               | this is actually skill, bravery, and fortitude
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > And let's be clear: this is a vanity project for Xi.
               | Taiwan would have voted, eventually, to peacefully join
               | China if pre-Xi trends continued. But he needed it on his
               | watch. Hence the stupidity.
               | 
               | From what I've been hearing from my buddies still in the
               | NatSec space what matters at this point is the 2028
               | Taiwanese Election and maybe the 2028 Philippines
               | Election. If neither see a definitive victory for either
               | side in 2028, it gives a face saving off-ramp for the Xi
               | admin to argue they brought the "Taiwan Problem" back on
               | track to the pre-2014 status quo. Of course they could be
               | closeted KMT/TPP supporters but it does come down to the
               | 28 elections.
        
               | Animats wrote:
               | > If China gets bogged down in Taiwan...
               | 
               | Look at the geography. Taiwan is a long, narrow island.
               | All the important parts are in a narrow plain on the west
               | side, facing China. There's only about 20km of depth from
               | the sea.
               | 
               | The war in Ukraine is like fighting over Iowa, one farm
               | at a time. Taiwan is not like that.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | _If China gets bogged down in Taiwan_
               | 
               | The odds of them losing militarily are virtually nil.
               | They could face an insurgency, but there isn't a whole
               | lot of rural Taiwan for insurgents to vanish into and
               | occupying cities is a lot easier absent language and
               | cultural barriers. The could be isolated politically and
               | economically, but realistically China's territorial claim
               | on Taiwan is on far firmer legal and historical ground
               | than many other territorial disputes (eg their control
               | over Tibet).
               | 
               | I don't see the US involving itself directly. What are
               | they going to do, counter-blockade? Start a naval
               | shooting war with a full-on nuclear power on the other
               | side of the world? I don't see Japan backing that either,
               | despite their natural anxiety over the vulnerability of
               | the Ryukyu islands. Support for US bases in Okinawa is
               | ambivalent at best, and while Japan is surely not
               | thrilled about Chinese regional hegemony it's also a
               | reality they've dealt with for thousands of years.
        
           | ck2 wrote:
           | btw just for comparison over in the US
           | 
           | Trump has purged dozens of Generals, the head Admiral of the
           | Navy and Coast Guard, head of NSA and Cyber Command and many
           | other top-level officials in the military
           | 
           | and there are only 1,000 women in various special forces (had
           | to pass same physical tests as men) but he is trying to get
           | rid of them all too
           | 
           | Now that is the mark of dictator, agreed
        
             | adventured wrote:
             | Trump was elected by the people of the United States.
             | Twice. Soundly. Not a dictator.
             | 
             | Xi was never elected to his position by the people of
             | China.
             | 
             | Being a bad president isn't the same thing as being a
             | dictator.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Trump was elected by the people of the United States.
               | Twice. Soundly. Not a dictator_
               | 
               | Trump is not a dictator, but not because he was elected,
               | but because of our courts and federal system (and
               | theoretically Congress).
        
             | chrisco255 wrote:
             | The Commander in Chief of the military, also known as the
             | President, has the authority to fire at will, that is how
             | it works in America for 250 years now.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | There's a better article about it in the WSJ of all places
           | https://archive.is/48m3F
           | 
           | Missing from both is that Zhang Youxia was the last senior
           | PLA leader to have seen frontline action in the Sino-
           | Vietnamese war.
        
             | dragonelite wrote:
             | Vietnam frontline experience is irrelevant in 2026, when
             | its more drone dominated.
             | 
             | Im sure China has plenty of observers/volunteers embedded
             | at the Russian side in the SMO making plenty of notes,
             | reports, and get modern warfare experience..
        
               | largbae wrote:
               | All frontline experience is valuable. It reminds the
               | leader that in war, real people, people on your own side,
               | people that you know, people that you will miss, will
               | die.
        
               | smallmancontrov wrote:
               | and in this case the particulars match the archetype: my
               | understanding is that Zhang was the "dove" while Xi is
               | the "hawk." The hawk just ate the dove. We're going to
               | war.
        
           | smallmancontrov wrote:
           | Did the USSR ever manufacture 80% of the stuff in your house?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Did the USSR ever manufacture 80% of the stuff in your
             | house?_
             | 
             | China makes about a third of the world's stuff [1]. Soviet
             | Union probably peaked around a fifth, though it might have
             | been as high as a fourth.
             | 
             | China is undoubtedly stronger today, absolutely and
             | relative to the U.S., than the Soviets ever were. But
             | history is littered with self-obsessed autocrats ruining a
             | good thing.
             | 
             | Part of what makes the world today frustrating is both
             | America and China are squandering their advantages in
             | remarkably-similar ways, with each regime's defenders
             | speaking almost identically.
             | 
             | [1] https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/china-worlds-sole-
             | manufacturi...
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > Part of what makes the world today frustrating is both
               | America and China are squandering their advantages in
               | remarkably-similar ways, with each regime's defenders
               | speaking almost identically.
               | 
               | Personalist rule be personalist.
        
             | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
             | If they had manufactured 80% of the stuff in my house,
             | wouldn't Reagan have concluded that they had won the war
             | before it started? A country that manufactures 80% of the
             | things you need to live might just decide to not sell them
             | to you if you misbehave.
        
               | smallmancontrov wrote:
               | Yes, but the real question is if Reagan still would have
               | pushed as hard for financialization and
               | deindustrialization if he understood that he was
               | ultimately selling American industry to communists.
               | 
               | I think he would have. I think he hated American labor
               | more than he hated foreign communists. If his head were
               | still around in a Futurama Jar to comment on the matter,
               | I think he would be blaming American workers for the
               | consequences of his own policies.
        
               | chrisco255 wrote:
               | Reagan didnt push for deindustrialization and "the world
               | is flat" world view didn't take precedence until after
               | the fall of the Soviet Union in the 90s.
               | 
               | At the time, everyone was still optimistic that China
               | would eventually become more open and even democratic,
               | that Russia would not regress, etc.
               | 
               | It was still common for electronics and microprocessors
               | to be made in USA well into the 90s. Reagan had nothing
               | to do with the expansion of WTO and trade deficits with
               | China that ballooned under HW, Clinton, Bush Jr and
               | Obama.
        
           | janalsncm wrote:
           | Xi appointed himself president for life in 2018, almost six
           | years ago. China wasnt exactly a bastion of liberal democracy
           | before then either. Sacking a top general is basically par
           | for the course.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Sacking a top general is basically par for the course_
             | 
             | Yes and no. Military readiness and potency doesn't require
             | liberal democracy. It _does_ require skill and command, and
             | sacking military leaders for political reasons is how
             | powers from Athens to the Soviets screwed themselves.
        
               | janalsncm wrote:
               | Yeah but the question of stability was relative to the
               | Soviets. The US has a good amount of instability as well,
               | and has been hemorrhaging scientists lately.
               | 
               | So if the argument is that _sacking a top general implies
               | that China is too unstable to prevail in a future space
               | race_ I don't buy it.
        
           | hbarka wrote:
           | Our dear leader just purged the Pentagon and other hallowed
           | agencies, what does that make us?
           | 
           | https://www.reuters.com/world/us/latest-purge-hegseth-
           | remove...
        
         | arjie wrote:
         | Do we already know what the best spots on the Moon are or will
         | that be determined by the early missions doing survey?
        
           | hdivider wrote:
           | Yes to both I'd say. The south polar region will be contested
           | because of the presence of water-ice and abundant sunlight.
        
         | rzerowan wrote:
         | Theresa though i read somewhere that i tend to agree with -
         | with the level of tech and space experience that China
         | currently is capable of , they could possibly launch a return
         | mission as early as next year(if they so chose).
         | 
         | However they have their own timetable and milestones , hence
         | going to the moon has already been earmarked with followup
         | misson for a lunar base and further missions already penned in.
         | So less of a race if one party is just doing their own thing.
         | 
         | We see the same dynamic viz Taiwan , western commentariat seeks
         | to impose deadlines and spin rationales when they never
         | materialise. Or the AI race where China keeps churning out OSS
         | models while American labs are in a sel declared 'race' for
         | supremacy.
        
       | JumpCrisscross wrote:
       | Is there a good, consolidated technical description of their
       | mission architecture?
       | 
       | (Apparently Artemis II is now pushed off the March [1]. Alongside
       | Starship's next scheduled launch [2].)
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nasa.gov/blogs/missions/2026/02/03/nasa-
       | conducts...
       | 
       | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starship_launches
        
       | spiritplumber wrote:
       | If another space race is what it takes, then I welcome it.
        
       | kens wrote:
       | As a historical note, the first President Bush proposed in 1989
       | to establish a base on the Moon and send astronauts to Mars by
       | 2020. In 2004, the second President Bush set a goal of returning
       | to the Moon by 2020 and going to Mars in the 2030s, starting the
       | Constellation program. In 2017, Trump announced that astronauts
       | would return to the Moon, with the Artemis III project now
       | planning a landing no earlier than 2028.
       | 
       | As a result, I don't have a lot of optimism about a US landing on
       | the Moon. On the other hand, the James Webb Space Telescope did
       | succeed even though the launch date slipped from 2007 to 2021. So
       | I've learned not to be completely pessimistic.
       | 
       | Sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/12/us/bush-sets-target-
       | for-m... https://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/15/us/bush-backs-goal-
       | of-fli... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program
        
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       (page generated 2026-02-03 23:00 UTC)