[HN Gopher] The next steps for Airbus' big bet on open rotor eng...
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       The next steps for Airbus' big bet on open rotor engines
        
       Author : CGMthrowaway
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2026-02-03 15:31 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org)
        
       | inhumantsar wrote:
       | > Airbus is also assessing shielding the area of the fuselage
       | closest to the engines to minimize the risk of a blade off -- one
       | or more composite blades breaking, which could dent or puncture
       | the fuselage and, in the worst-case scenario, strike a passenger.
       | 
       | sightly terrifying
        
         | roboror wrote:
         | Yeah I'd think you'd need some serious shielding to prevent a
         | puncture
        
         | in_a_hole wrote:
         | I had a sharp intake of breath after reading this and then
         | clicking through to see the header image of the article.
        
         | KolmogorovComp wrote:
         | not more terrifying than sitting in any turboprop airplane.
        
         | mapt wrote:
         | The cowling of the current turbines serves the same purpose,
         | but needs to cover 360 degrees of rotation, so it's heavier and
         | draggier. The blades have a bit more angular momentum in the
         | propfan than in a high bypass turbofan, but there's fewer of
         | them.
        
           | dameyawn wrote:
           | Instead of reinforcing the fuselage, I wonder if just having
           | a 1/4 nacelle that shields the passenger side would work.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > _The cowling of the current turbines serves the same
           | purpose, but needs to cover 360 degrees of rotation_
           | 
           | this doesn't make sense. if you are not worried about fan
           | blades flying off in directions other than the fuselage, why
           | cover 360 degrees? (and if you are worried 360, then why open
           | rotor?)
        
             | somewhereoutth wrote:
             | The cowling is its own structural support, so needs to be
             | strong all around, otherwise it would fail on the other
             | side and you'd get blade+cowling approaching the fuselage
             | at high velocity.
        
           | pavon wrote:
           | The impact area of the fuselage looks much larger than an
           | unrolled cowling, and thus significantly heavier to
           | reinforce. The smaller cowling will save drag through.
        
         | csours wrote:
         | High bypass turbo fans do this as well, it's just in the
         | fan/engine housing, not the fuselage.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | I am assuming the target market for this is European short haul
       | flights?
       | 
       | On something like a New York <-> Los Angeles flight I cannot
       | imagine the turboprop beats a 737 in any performance or comfort
       | category.
        
         | micwag wrote:
         | The article is not about turboprop but about open-rotor engines
         | which are a modern variation of propfan engines.
        
       | 4fterd4rk wrote:
       | Everything old is new again... McDonnell Douglas looked into the
       | propfan thing. Boeing looked into the propfan thing. Now it's
       | Airbus' turn. IIRC the technology has been ready for years but
       | the passengers are freaked out by it.
        
         | cherryteastain wrote:
         | Real problem was noise, not passengers. Immense advances in
         | aeroacoustics over the past 40 years thanks to CFD is the main
         | enabler here.
        
         | dcrazy wrote:
         | I think it's a cool idea but I also know that the nacelles have
         | a safety function of containing the rotor blades in the event
         | of disintegration (e.g. from a bird strike).
         | 
         | If these fans have blades with anywhere near the same kinetic
         | energy, I would be nervous.
        
           | txru wrote:
           | Southwest 1380[0] is a case where the cowling _didn 't quite_
           | contain the thrown rotor blade.
           | 
           | They were very lucky that only one person died.
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1380
        
           | filleduchaos wrote:
           | Turboprops have already existed for decades, so perhaps you
           | should already be nervous.
        
       | drivebyhooting wrote:
       | Won't this be absurdly loud?
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | This is discussed in the article, was there a specific part
         | that was ambiguous?
        
           | drivebyhooting wrote:
           | It was glossed over and buried.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | TFW does say there is an opportunity for reduced noise.
           | However, conventional turboprops are very loud compared to
           | their jet counterparts.
           | 
           | Each revolution of a prop blade sends out a shockwave of air
           | against the airframe. The strength of the shockwave is likely
           | proportional to the instantaneous thrust of the engine, and
           | more blades are likely to weaken or smooth it.
           | 
           | A turbofan has a nacelle to contain the shockwave, and avoid
           | the whole noisy mess.
        
           | ufmace wrote:
           | It's only discussed in a similarly ambiguous way - like that
           | they know noise is a potential problem that they're working
           | on. Though to be fair, the designers probably have no idea
           | themselves, since apparently nobody has built a prototype
           | engine that could be run at the rated thrust level in a way
           | they could check the real-world noise and vibration on.
        
             | rgmerk wrote:
             | I would assume that these days you can simulate that
             | increasingly accurately before you need a full-scale
             | prototype.
             | 
             | They could also use active noise cancellation, which is
             | already used in some turboprops like the Q400.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Just an opportunity to sell premium quiet seats at the back,
         | and pleb seats at the front.
         | 
         | With all seriousness, I am thinking whether there are parallels
         | between this proposed plane and the Q400.
        
         | JorgeGT wrote:
         | I talked with one of the aeroacoustic engineers working on it,
         | she says they expect to match noise levels of current engines.
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | It's part of the tradeoff between momentum and energy that you
       | should aim to move as high of a mass of air at as low of a speed
       | as possible for efficiency.
       | 
       | When you put energy into a mass of air you impart energy of 1/2
       | MV^2, the kinetic energy equation, which you can think of as the
       | energy you're leaving in the air as it's accelerated to a given
       | velocity on exhaust from the engine. The V^2 part is a killer.
       | This does not translate directly into momentum at all and the
       | most energy efficient way to gain momentum is with a large mass
       | that's accelerated to a low velocity. You can actually see this
       | with the wings which keep the plane itself up. The wings impart
       | enough momentum to hold the weight of the aircraft up by moving a
       | lot of air at relatively low velocity which sacrifices very
       | little energy for the upwards momentum gained.
       | 
       | So engines in aircraft have been getting bigger and bigger as
       | well as slower and slower. It's basic physics, aiming to move as
       | high of a mass at as low of a practical velocity as possible. The
       | 737 max issues were an example of adding giant engines to an
       | airframe not originally built for them due to the drive to move
       | as much air at as low of a velocity as possible while still
       | keeping the plane moving forwards. Passenger aircraft have been
       | getting slower over the years, the 747 was faster than the newer
       | 787's because we're looking for efficiency above all else these
       | days. Going open bladed makes a lot of sense as we go further
       | down this path.
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | I'm curious about using a hybrid system where you have multiple
         | electric fans. For instance 2 turbines and 4 fans. Advantage is
         | smaller diameter for the same mass flow. And more redundancy. A
         | negative is the weight of the electric motors and generators.
         | If you added a battery you have some other advantages. Less
         | pucker when you lose an engine. And better throttle response.
        
           | pedrocr wrote:
           | Another advantage is you can place the fans all along the
           | wing getting you better stall resistance as the flow doesn't
           | detach as easily. There's already a prototype of a hybrid
           | plane that does this:
           | 
           | https://www.electra.aero/
        
         | aceofspades19 wrote:
         | This isn't true though, the 747's cruise speed is the same as
         | the 787's at 0.85 mach. The 747 has a slightly faster max speed
         | but that's not relevant for actual travel. The 777 has a slower
         | max speed and cruise speed than the 787 despite being older. I
         | don't think you can realistically draw a correlation between
         | older/newer being faster or slower on wide body aircraft.
        
         | enopod_ wrote:
         | Sounds like a helicopter is not very efficient?
        
           | AnotherGoodName wrote:
           | Less efficient than an aircrafts wings over a long distance
           | but very efficient for an aircraft with engines pointing
           | straight down.
           | 
           | The blades are massive, push a lot of air relatively slowing
           | compared to smaller engines. There's a reason most planes
           | will stall when pointing straight up, despite in theory
           | having more power to weight. Their prop efficiency is worse
           | than a helicopters rotors.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | Isn't this like turboprops (already very efficient) with bigger
       | propellors? I couldn't tell from the article, but quite possibly
       | missed something.
        
         | nickff wrote:
         | This website has some nice explanations and GIFs:
         | https://s2.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages/variations.htm
        
           | game_the0ry wrote:
           | The inner nerd in me is so satisfied. Thanks for the link.
        
           | jiehong wrote:
           | That website it gold!
        
           | Ajedi32 wrote:
           | So the "open rotor" engine is actually a propfan engine?
        
             | nickff wrote:
             | Essentially yes, different engine companies have used
             | different nomenclature over time. It seems that the "open
             | rotor" terminology is being used to emphasize the
             | improvements which have been made to blade design, noise,
             | and general efficiency.
        
         | somewhereoutth wrote:
         | I think it is the stators fixed to the engine nacelle, judging
         | by the article image.
        
       | Stevvo wrote:
       | The Antonov An-70 has been in service with "open rotor" engines
       | for 30+ years. It's superior to its western counterparts in every
       | way. i.e. greater speed and payload with less fuel consumption
       | than a C-130 or A400M.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Huh? Only two An-70 prototypes were ever built so it's not
         | really "in service". The early propfan designs, while
         | efficient, were too loud for widespread civil use. Newer open
         | rotor designs are much quieter.
        
         | vel0city wrote:
         | You know what makes the C-130 or the A400M superior? The fact
         | there's more than one operational today.
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | Russia has also just modernized their IL-114s and got an order
       | from India.
        
         | micwag wrote:
         | Those are turboprop like the A400m or C-130. The article is
         | about open-rotor engines which are a modern variation of
         | propfan engines.
        
       | direwolf20 wrote:
       | Is this not... a propeller? A turboprop engine?
        
         | idontwantthis wrote:
         | I'm not an expert but I think the distinction is that the blade
         | tips in these reach supersonic speeds like in turbofans. That
         | is a hard problem to fix because you don't have the duct to
         | contain the noise and catch the blades if one were to break.
        
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       (page generated 2026-02-03 23:00 UTC)