[HN Gopher] Leaked chats expose the daily life of a scam compoun...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Leaked chats expose the daily life of a scam compound's enslaved
       workforce
        
       https://archive.is/mCEHR
        
       Author : smurda
       Score  : 260 points
       Date   : 2026-02-02 05:10 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
        
       | alwa wrote:
       | https://archive.is/mCEHR
        
       | thaumasiotes wrote:
       | > The more senior boss, who went by the name Da Hai
       | 
       | Weird. In Wired's own graphic of the org chart, this person
       | appears, but he's labeled "SEA" instead of "DA HAI".
        
         | jtvjan wrote:
         | In the chart, it says Da Hai  (dahai, lit. big sea) above
         | "SEA", which means 'ocean'.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | Yes, I know, but the intended audience can't read Da Hai .
           | 
           | The chart and the article are both created by Wired; it's
           | strange for them to refer to him one way in the chart and
           | another way in the article.
           | 
           | I'm curious about the ethnic makeup of the "team leader"
           | level. One of them is called "Ted", and seems to also be
           | called Te De  ["te de"]. The Te De  could just be because
           | everyone in the upper levels is Chinese, but the English-
           | language post from Ted shown in the article doesn't really
           | suggest a native English speaker. (And does suggest an
           | emotional loyalty to China.)
           | 
           | Amani doesn't sound like a Chinese name or like the English
           | name of a Chinese person.
        
             | bandrami wrote:
             | "Amani" is an East African name
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/10/feds-seize-15-bi...
       | 
       |  _> [US] Federal prosecutors have seized $15 billion from the
       | alleged kingpin of an operation that used imprisoned laborers to
       | trick unsuspecting people into making investments in phony funds,
       | often after spending months faking romantic relationships with
       | the victims._
       | 
       | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-01-29/china-executes-online...
       | 
       |  _> China has executed 11 people involved in criminal gangs in
       | Myanmar, including online scam ringleaders. Their crimes included
       | "intentional homicide, intentional injury, unlawful detention,
       | fraud and casino establishment"_
       | 
       | https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/3184205/why-china-was-so-k...
       | 
       |  _> Chen 's case might prove more complicated since the US had
       | seized a large amount of his cryptocurrency assets, but he was
       | now in custody in China.. "If China doesn't cooperate, it will be
       | extremely difficult for the US to investigate Chen."_
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | >seized $15 billion from the alleged kingpin
         | 
         | I know the answer but why amass $15 billion, more money than a
         | person could spend in a lifetime, and still conduct this scam?
         | You think a person would say "enough" and escape to a beach
         | somewhere.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | I'm not sure what to call the bias but the people who have
           | done that we don't hear about so we're only hearing about the
           | ones that don't do that. Who knows how many ruffians and
           | scofflaws are out there on beaches, going unknown!
        
             | giarc wrote:
             | Good point - it's like the opposite of survivorship bias?
             | We only hear about the ones that don't survive and get
             | caught. The "survivors" we don't hear about all the
             | criminals who are still at large I guess.
        
           | miohtama wrote:
           | Because it was old Bitcoin, which was confiscated long time
           | ago and did 100x.
        
       | gkanai wrote:
       | China executes 11 members of Myanmar scam mafia
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2gdrvy9gjo
       | 
       | China executes four more Myanmar mafia members
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg4e9eqz4rxo
        
         | v3ss0n wrote:
         | They are Ethnic Chinese who were operating scam centers in
         | collaboration with junta at northern area Laukkai.
         | 
         | There are more at shwe Koko area.
        
           | simianwords wrote:
           | were they Chinese citizens?
        
             | sigwinch wrote:
             | China claims jurisdiction because 20 Chinese citizens were
             | murdered, if that's what you're wondering.
        
             | dmix wrote:
             | They are usually Chinese triad gangsters who operate scam
             | businesses and illegal casinos in south east asia.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_(organised_crime)
        
         | master_crab wrote:
         | The BBC article is interesting:
         | 
         |  _With these executions Beijing is sending a message of
         | deterrence to would-be scammers. But the business has now moved
         | to Myanmar 's border with Thailand, and to Cambodia and Laos,
         | where China has much less influence.
         | 
         | Hundreds of thousands of people have been trafficked to run
         | online scams in Myanmar and elsewhere in South East Asia,
         | according to estimates by the UN. Among them are thousands of
         | Chinese people, and their victims who they swindle billions of
         | dollars from are mainly Chinese too.
         | 
         | Frustrated by the Myanmar military's refusal to stop the scam
         | business, from which it was almost certainly profiting, Beijing
         | tacitly backed an offensive by an ethnic insurgent alliance in
         | Shan State in late 2023. The alliance captured significant
         | territory from the military and overran Laukkaing, a key border
         | town._
         | 
         | China exercising profound influence over their near abroad.
        
           | axus wrote:
           | And they didn't even have to concoct a lie to justify it
        
       | bandris wrote:
       | Complementary movie on this topic: "No More Bets" from 2023
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_More_Bets
        
       | Epskampie wrote:
       | Horrifying read. I recently read a book about a girl who was
       | pressed into prostitution, and this reads much the same. [1]
       | Before I was convinced that slavery was mostly a thing of the
       | past, how awful to find out this isn't true.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6515858-slave-girl
        
         | PeterStuer wrote:
         | Why would a criminal organization that trafficked you into a
         | place where you have no legal recourse ever stop exploiting
         | you?
        
           | cucumber3732842 wrote:
           | Same reason your government doesn't set taxes to 100%, has
           | rules for themselves they at least sort of follow, and only
           | treats people like shit when they've got a pretext. If they
           | make it "too bad" then they'll have to piss away a whole lot
           | more money on ensuring compliance, it'll threaten stability,
           | etc.
           | 
           | Slaves are the least motivated and least productive form of
           | workers. Slaves who know they're slaves are worse still.
           | Shooting for maximum extraction of labor doesn't actually get
           | you the best ROI. Don't get me wrong, they'll still treat you
           | like shit. But they maximize their "take home" by not going
           | too far with it.
           | 
           | I get that we all want to turn off our brains and hand wring
           | because "criminals" or whatever but the dynamics of human
           | organizations are unchanged regardless of what side of the
           | law they're operating on.
        
             | mapt wrote:
             | Slavery was replaced by wage labor because it was more
             | productive in the long run - that's part of the economists
             | founding narrative. But I think they tend not to emphasize
             | that it was also simply because it was a lot more flexible
             | for a business in a competitive market to rent than to own,
             | ceter paribus.
             | 
             | Quasi-slave status persisted in many situations for a long
             | time, being a local maxima for various management
             | situations. Penal slaves in the postwar American South were
             | in many cases treated worse than their chattel slave
             | parents/grandparents partially because they were rented out
             | by their owners, who didn't pay for them, to managers who
             | rented and didn't have any stake in their survival.
        
               | alpinisme wrote:
               | These just-so narratives about how slavery was abolished
               | for rational economic reasons can be quite frustrating.
               | Obviously historically most people who owned slaves
               | didn't stop owning slaves because it was more profitable
               | to give freedom and pay. Nor because they were competing
               | with neighbors who had turned to cheaper wage labor. They
               | did so because they were forced. Slavery was a topic of
               | great political turmoil.
               | 
               | Is the argument that it would have come back if it were
               | really cheaper? Or is the argument just so above the fray
               | that the political turmoil is part of the supposed
               | "costs" that were saved by abolition?
               | 
               | I'm not trying to directly engage the question whether
               | slavery was more profitable than wage labor. It just
               | always annoys me when people treat the economic forces as
               | the ones that moved history.
        
               | estearum wrote:
               | And vice versa, the people who pushed for abolition (in
               | the US anyway) did not do it for economic reasons either.
               | It was a deeply moral mission initiated by, basically,
               | religious fundamentalists. Then followed on by more
               | mainstream liberals, still for ethical reasons, and then
               | followed on by the masses once war broke out over it.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | A similar pattern in the UK, bar the war.
               | 
               | There was use of military force to suppress the slave
               | trade but not actual war
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa_Squadron
        
               | cucumber3732842 wrote:
               | >These just-so narratives about how slavery was abolished
               | for rational economic reasons can be quite frustrating.
               | Obviously historically most people who owned slaves
               | didn't stop owning slaves because it was more profitable
               | to give freedom and pay. Nor because they were competing
               | with neighbors who had turned to cheaper wage labor. They
               | did so because they were forced. Slavery was a topic of
               | great political turmoil.
               | 
               | These sorts of ignorant narratives about how humanity
               | abolished slavery out of the goodness of its heart can be
               | so frustrating.
               | 
               | If slavery was so much more profitable that those
               | engaging in it were the dominant economic force in
               | society it never would have been abolished, at the very
               | least because so much other economic activity would have
               | depended upon that surplus (stolen from the slaves).
               | 
               | This isn't so say that moral factors didn't matter, they
               | absolutely did but if we couldn't afford abolish slavery
               | or or if we did despite not being able to afford to or if
               | free workers were substantially worse than slaves at the
               | margin we'd have been out competed by some other society
               | that didn't make that choice.
               | 
               | >Or is the argument just so above the fray that the
               | political turmoil is part of the supposed "costs" that
               | were saved by abolition?
               | 
               | That's certainly part of it. It takes a lot of constant
               | violence to keep people enslaved. You can shit-can all
               | that administrative overhead if you make people "free"
               | (well not all of it, but a lot).
               | 
               | >It just always annoys me when people treat the economic
               | forces as the ones that moved history.
               | 
               | It annoys me when people think we can just do what we
               | want. We are fundamentally tied to what we can afford, in
               | the most general sense of that word. Our freedom of
               | action is limited.
               | 
               | Edit: We'd all be better off if everyone stopped thinking
               | of slavery as a binary and instead as the fraction of a
               | worker's surplus that is taken by threat of violence.
               | Even if where one draws the line of "taken by violence"
               | varies, this at least enables one to make better
               | comparisons across centuries and locations. But that
               | leads to some deeply uncomfortable questions for many so
               | of course we won't do that.
        
               | walterbell wrote:
               | _> It takes a lot of constant violence to keep people
               | enslaved_
               | 
               | Or digital transaction cancel-sanction-kill switch tied
               | to biometric identity of fugitive human assets.
               | 
               | Paper passport hostages are crude approximation.
        
               | spacebanana7 wrote:
               | > It just always annoys me when people treat the economic
               | forces as the ones that moved history.
               | 
               | Why? The economics of oil, cotton and silver, for
               | example, are undeniably important forces in moving the
               | history of many regions.
        
               | somenameforme wrote:
               | Contrary to what most people seem to think about the
               | past, slavery was oft seen as naturally repulsive even
               | thousands of years back. It required regular defense. In
               | Aristotle's Politics [1], written some 2400+ years ago,
               | he felt compelled to lay out just such a defense and it
               | was, by far, his weakest argument. He clearly started at
               | his conclusion and worked backwards from there, instead
               | of working forward from first principles and he did in
               | other topics. The reason it's relevant is that he did
               | accurately predict the end of slavery:
               | 
               | "For if every instrument could accomplish its own work,
               | obeying or anticipating the will of others, like the
               | statues of Daedalus, or the tripods of Hephaestus, which,
               | says the poet, 'Of their own accord entered the assembly
               | of the Gods.' If, in like manner, the shuttle would weave
               | and the plectrum touch the lyre without a hand to guide
               | them, chief workmen would not want servants, nor masters
               | slaves."
               | 
               | There were thousands of years of efforts to end slavery,
               | some countries would occasionally succeed at such only to
               | see it spring right back. Yet following the industrial
               | revolution it began rapidly disappearing everywhere that
               | had gone through industrialization + urbanization. The
               | issue in your mental model is that you're only
               | considering local effects over very immediate time
               | frames. Think about the bigger picture.
               | 
               | Industrialization drove big money away from farms and
               | into factories, away from rural scarcely populated rural
               | areas into densely populated urban areas packed with very
               | poor potential workers. As soon as the necessity argument
               | for slavery became plainly absurd, to say nothing of the
               | issue of industrialization also reducing the need for so
               | many workers even on plantations, slavery wasn't long for
               | this world. This says nothing about actual slave holders
               | who, as you said, did not just go quietly into the night.
               | But as their economic might relatively waned, so did
               | their influence.
               | 
               | [1] - https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.mb.txt
        
               | jltsiren wrote:
               | Slavery effectively disappeared in most of Christian
               | Europe towards the end of the Middle Ages, because the
               | Church opposed keeping Christian slaves. (Similarly,
               | Islamic Europe had banned Muslim slaves.) As Christianity
               | spread, slaves were no longer conveniently available, and
               | the society had to adapt.
               | 
               | In densely populated areas, that meant systems like
               | serfdom. Agricultural land was a scarce resource mostly
               | owned by the elite. Most peasants were nominally free but
               | tied to the land, with obligations towards whoever owned
               | the land. Peasants farmed land owned by the local lord
               | and paid rent with labor. And if the lord sold the land,
               | the peasants and their obligations went with it.
        
               | cucumber3732842 wrote:
               | >Slavery effectively disappeared in most of Christian
               | Europe towards the end of the Middle Ages, because the
               | Church opposed keeping Christian slaves.
               | 
               | It disappeared because it was replaced by indentured
               | servitude on the low end and restriction and tax on who
               | could do what trades on the high end. Because the lords
               | own a huge fraction of all the farmland. So this is very
               | much a "you're nominally free but you're gonna be share-
               | cropping your old master's land" situation for the former
               | serfs. An improvement, sure. But not nearly as big of one
               | as the history books tout.
               | 
               | Lucky for them that didn't last very long until the black
               | death made labor way more valuable so a lot of the rules
               | got eased up and once that unleashed a bunch more
               | productivity at the margin, well there was no going back.
               | 
               | >Most peasants were nominally free but tied to the land,
               | with obligations towards whoever owned the land. Peasants
               | farmed land owned by the local lord and paid rent with
               | labor. And if the lord sold the land, the peasants and
               | their obligations went with i
               | 
               | I'm not saying they're equivalent, but there's a very
               | good comparison to most professional licensure to be made
               | here.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | Serfdom was a huge improvement. Serfs could not be taken
               | away from their homes and families. They could own
               | things. They had far more rights.
        
               | master_crab wrote:
               | _Slavery effectively disappeared in most of Christian
               | Europe towards the end of the Middle Ages, because the
               | Church opposed keeping Christian slaves. (Similarly,
               | Islamic Europe had banned Muslim slaves.) As Christianity
               | spread, slaves were no longer conveniently available, and
               | the society had to adapt._
               | 
               | This requires a very bold, 115 font asterisk. Or rather
               | it's plain wrong. Mass slavery in Europe didn't really
               | end until serfdom was abolished (1800s). And let's not
               | even get started on the African slave trade which was
               | managed and prospered off of from Europeans, both from
               | direct sales and indirectly from slave labor. Also, many
               | of those slaves converted to Christianity, so it wasn't
               | based on any religious affiliation.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | It was abolished in western Europe. Even in eastern
               | Europe serfdom was not the same as slavery.
               | 
               | The African slave trade happened between west Africa and
               | the Americas, and Africa and west Asia. Not with Europe.
               | 
               | Slave owners refused to free slves who converted, and
               | tired to prevent them being converted :
               | https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/protestant-slavery
        
               | thelock85 wrote:
               | I'm a bit confused by your reply. Pretty sure the rulers
               | of the Dahomey kingdom weren't trading with people of the
               | "Americas" but with Europeans, before and after its
               | abolishment across Western Europe. In the book Fistful of
               | Shells, historian Toby Green argues the scale of the
               | trade was only made possible by European traders flooding
               | West Africa with cheap currency (shells which had little
               | value to them but that could be collected in the billions
               | from Brazil and the Indo-Pacific).
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | My points are:
               | 
               | 1. slavery in Western Europe had been abolished long
               | before the transatlantic slave trade - the Europeans were
               | intermediaries, but there was little to no slavery in
               | their home countries. There were many court rulings in
               | England against slavery.
               | 
               | 2. not enslaving Christians played a role in abolishing
               | slavery in medieval Europe
               | 
               | 3. serfdom was a far better condition that being a slave
               | 
               | 4. Slave owners in the Americas opposed the conversion of
               | slaves to Christianity. they also censored the version of
               | the Bible available to slaves very heavily.
               | 
               | 5. The claim about mass slavery within Europe is
               | misleading on two counts: serfs are not just chattel
               | slaves (they had rights), and Western Europe was very
               | different from Eastern Europe.
               | 
               | https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-
               | me/blog/bl...
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain#Judicial
               | _de...
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_Parts_of_the_Holy_Bi
               | ble...
        
               | mapt wrote:
               | Debt/war/penal/chattel slavery was not a particularly
               | strong economic activity in Europe in the Middle Ages.
               | What we're mostly talking about is agricultural serfdom.
               | 
               | I think the Church had a lot less to do with the end of
               | _serfdom_ than the Black Death. The sudden population
               | drop mandated that lords who wanted to maintain
               | production had to steal peasants from other lords, and
               | improve their own compensation/conditions to retain their
               | own labor force. And so on for the rest of the economy as
               | well.
               | 
               | This represented a massive transfer of power and rights
               | downwards... for a while. The late 1300's and 1400's have
               | some of the best conditions for the laboring class for
               | the previous 400 years or the next 400 years. You can
               | hear about some of the dark days to follow in England
               | specifically in
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ec9Al5ezYs
        
               | xhkkffbf wrote:
               | The Quakers in New England in the 1800s were known for
               | (1) being abolitionists and (2) whalers. They often
               | bragged about employing freed and escaped slaves on their
               | ships. It all sounds great when viewed through a narrow
               | lens, but the whale boats had a system of paying the crew
               | when they returned successfully. No whales, no pay. Yes,
               | the Quakers would risk the cost of the ship and the
               | supplies, but they didn't pay for the labor until the end
               | ... and then only when the workers actually succeeded.
               | The plantations had to capitalize the cost of the slaves
               | upfront, a significant cost that often required large
               | loans. Before the Civil War, places like New Orleans were
               | big banking centers.
        
               | cucumber3732842 wrote:
               | The late 1700s early 1800s British Army and Navy also
               | drove a "famously hard" bargain when it came to the
               | working situation of the former slaves they employed.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | Slavery is alive and well in most part of the world, especially
         | south asia, middle east, Russia and Africa,where children with
         | no papers are trafficked all the time for the worse things you
         | could imagine. I'm not sure what convinced you otherwise.
        
           | segmondy wrote:
           | children? how about adults?
           | 
           | After USA destabilized Libya, it turned horrible. In Libya
           | there are open slave markets. Adults. Africans trying to who
           | travel a great deal trying to get to Europe are often
           | kidnapped and kept as slaves in Libya.
           | 
           | https://www.humanrightsresearch.org/post/the-scandal-of-a-
           | sl...
        
             | throw_m239339 wrote:
             | I'm well aware of Libya and its open air black slave
             | markets, don't worry, an absolute disgrace what happened in
             | Libya, and we could talk about Syria too and how The Yasidi
             | were enslaved by Daesh...
        
           | a_better_world wrote:
           | Also in the USA. We call it "prison labor", and over 1% of
           | our adult population is "under correctional control."
           | 
           | Approximately two-thirds (about 61% to over 65%) of the 1.2
           | million people incarcerated in US state and federal prisons
           | are employed in prison labor, totaling around 800,000
           | workers. These workers often perform maintenance tasks for,
           | on average, 13 to 52 cents per hour, with many facing forced
           | labor conditions https://www.epi.org/publication/rooted-
           | racism-prison-labor/#...
        
             | tinfoilhatter wrote:
             | I'm against for-profit prisons, but equating people who
             | commit crimes and end up in prison and are forced to work
             | as part of their sentence, to people who have committed no
             | crimes is a bit ridiculous.
        
               | linguae wrote:
               | I understand your sentiment. Unfortunately, the history
               | of America's legal system isn't simple. There are people
               | in prison who never actually committed a crime, but who
               | were convicted because they couldn't afford good legal
               | representation during their trial. This
               | disproportionately affects the poor, and there are
               | correlations between poverty and minority status in
               | America. Some people have been able to get their
               | convictions overturned, but this typically requires very
               | sympathetic people advocating for them.
               | 
               | There's also a very long history in America of laws and
               | law enforcement being targeted against poor people and
               | minorities. Vagrancy laws
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy#Post-Civil_War)
               | and modern anti-homeless laws effectively criminalize
               | homelessness, and the War on Drugs has had a major
               | negative impact on poor people and minorities. Yes, in
               | this situation those who have been imprisoned due to such
               | laws did violate the law, but such laws, in my opinion,
               | serve the function of kicking people while they are down
               | rather than addressing the root causes of their poverty.
               | 
               | There's a good argument that having a system of convict
               | labor creates a perverse incentive to fill that labor
               | pipeline, similar to how well-meaning traffic laws (such
               | as speed limits) can be abused (for example, "speed
               | traps").
        
               | stevenwoo wrote:
               | If you are open to a bit of reading I would recommend The
               | New Jim Crow, Usual Cruelty, and Copoganda. The USA has a
               | disproportionate amount of prisoners and armed law
               | enforcement compared to every other comparable country -
               | because it is a hugely profitable industry that self
               | perpetuates itself really well- it's similar in a way to
               | how hard it is to get any consumer protections in USA
               | from predatory and polluting entities.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | There are also slaves you see outside your window without
             | recognizing them as such. Homeless people are sometimes
             | exploited by gang members who enslave them to either pimp
             | themselves out or sell drugs.
             | 
             | One of the side effects of a society tolerating thousands
             | of people living in nylon tarps with no real safety net.
        
               | Throaway1985232 wrote:
               | drug addicts as well are manipulated by dealers into
               | theft & other crimes to pay for their addiction,
               | essentially a form of chemical induced slavery
        
         | catigula wrote:
         | The West has largely snuffed the horror of slavery in its
         | sphere but outside of that it's the wild west. There are
         | horrifying things to read if you go down that rabbit hole.
        
         | cobri wrote:
         | According to International Justice Mission [1], 50 million
         | people are trapped in human trafficking.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.ijm.org/
        
           | anothereng wrote:
           | and most of them are in muslim countries.
        
             | tinfoilhatter wrote:
             | Source for this? This just reads as blatant xenophobia...
        
               | tweetle_beetle wrote:
               | Looked this up out of curiosity and came across a non-
               | profit which produces reports on the topic and seems to
               | be the basis for the Wikipedia article on modern slavery.
               | 
               | According to the 2023 Global Slavery Index, 7-8 of the
               | top 10 countries in the world with the highest prevalence
               | of modern slavery have a majority religion of Islam
               | (Mauritania has disputed figures about religious
               | prevalence with Christianity and Islam at similar
               | levels). And none of the countries in the top 10 lowest
               | prevalence have a majority religion of Islam. Prevalence
               | here is used to mean estimated number of people in
               | slavery per 1000 population.
               | 
               | However, the absolute figures for total people affected
               | are proportional to the size of the country, as you would
               | expect, with North Korea and Russia topping the list.
               | 
               | And if you look at driving factors, the US is the leading
               | importer of products at risk of being produced by slavery
               | by an order of magnitude.
               | 
               | https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | > I was convinced that slavery was mostly a thing of the past
         | 
         | Unfortunately, it's the opposite. There's more people in
         | enslaved situations now than ever before in all of human
         | history.
        
       | thoi4o8094ijoi wrote:
       | I wonder what kind of stories one'd hear from scam-centers in
       | India.
        
         | Havoc wrote:
         | They run the same corporate style operations. Management team,
         | performance reviews etc all that jazz
        
         | rainsil wrote:
         | We have quite a bit of insight into Indian scam centers thanks
         | to the work of scambaiters like Jim Browning[1] who frequently
         | hack into their CCTV cameras and desktops.
         | 
         | The big difference is that the workers in India are voluntarily
         | employed. In fact they often work for companies that do
         | legitimate customer support as well, so they maintain the
         | facade of doing "service" for their "clients".
         | 
         | It's also worth noting that Indian call centers focus more on
         | tech support scams rather than romance scams.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/JimBrowning
        
       | Incipient wrote:
       | I'm surprised anyone here expects these things not to be
       | happening. The world outside of our (frankly small) 'western
       | bubble' varies from pretty rough to absolutely horrific.
       | 
       | I'm personally not too sure what anyone does about it. People
       | left unchecked, to some degree, are awful.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | > The world outside of our (frankly small) 'western bubble'
         | varies
         | 
         | Even within our "western bubble" horrible like these things
         | continue being exposed, at least once every year. Sex
         | trafficking rings, slavery and more seems a lot more prevelant
         | than seemingly some people like to believe here, even in our
         | "western bubble".
         | 
         | One would think the whole Epstein affair that keeps growing
         | would make people realize this, even more since there is still
         | many individuals who are seemingly shielded for whatever
         | reason. And that's what we know about, that they're "willing"
         | to share, so imagine the ones who aren't as dumb and big as
         | Epstein, they're still around and they're still in our "western
         | bubble".
        
         | tdb7893 wrote:
         | There's sadly forced labor within the 'western bubble', too. My
         | experience from working in tech is the bubble is mostly a small
         | set upper middle class people.
         | 
         | As a human it's not like you meet that many people so I think
         | necessarily we have a very myopic view of how the world is. I
         | mean hell, I often don't even know what people I see regularly
         | are going through, there are people I talked to regularly that
         | had severely abusive relationships or were going through a
         | serious illness and it took a while for me to figure out.
        
         | jezzamon wrote:
         | While not as bad, MLM style companies share a lot of the same
         | techniques as described in this article. Seems like a lot of
         | them hold people primarily by indoctrination rather than actual
         | force
        
       | simianwords wrote:
       | Does Laos not have a functioning justice and enforcement system
       | that the individuals trapped here could not just call them?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | The catch-22 is that these people are nearly always immigrants,
         | and the criminals have taken their documentation, so the best
         | case scenario is they get rescued and then deported, possibly
         | via a spell in immigration detention. The worst case scenario
         | is the cops turn up, laugh, collect the day's bribe money and
         | then the person who called the cops gets beaten.
         | 
         | (this is an important dynamic in sex trafficking as well)
        
         | JustSkyfall wrote:
         | The government is somewhat complicit - there are even reports
         | that the police take escapees back to their captives for a
         | bribe
        
           | simianwords wrote:
           | this is far bigger a problem and requires interventions from
           | China and India. what good is it to just punish the people
           | who ran the scam but not the country that supported it?
        
         | eviks wrote:
         | What you see is exactly how those systems function
        
         | astura wrote:
         | From TFA:
         | 
         | >The relative leniency of Muzahir's compound, says Harvard's
         | Sims, likely stems from scam operations' sense of total control
         | in Laos' Golden Triangle region--a zone of the country
         | controlled largely by Chinese business interests that has
         | become a host to crimes ranging from narcotics and organ sales
         | to illegal wildlife trafficking. Even human trafficking victims
         | who escape from a compound there, Sims points out, can be
         | tracked down relatively easily thanks to Chinese organized
         | crime's influence over local law enforcement. "These guys don't
         | have to be held in a cell," Sims says. "The whole place is a
         | closed circuit."
        
       | andrepd wrote:
       | That's why those "scammer gets owned" videos made by douche
       | youtubers, full of people gloating in the comments about how
       | superior they are, never sat right with me. Those people crammed
       | into warehouses are obviously extremely desperate or coerced or
       | both.
        
         | scns wrote:
         | There is quite a difference between indians going to "work" in
         | a shiny building in the business district and native chinese
         | held captive in Myanmar and forced to scam people in China.
        
         | jrmg wrote:
         | Don't like that you're being downvoted. I've always felt the
         | same.
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | I don't - it's the same as people defending thieves and
           | burglars because "they are just people and they have families
           | to feed". I've had shit stolen from my house before and the
           | emotional damage this causes is far greater than anything
           | financial - to me, thieves could be shot on the spot,
           | literally zero sympathy towards them, they are only one spot
           | below actual murderers and rapists in my book.
           | 
           | These guys are the same - do I feel bad for their plight?
           | Yes, for sure, I wish we could help them and make sure they
           | can live their lives free and not in what is effectively
           | slavery. But they are currently "employed" destroying peoples
           | lives, so many examples of people losing their lives savings
           | to these scammers, many commit suicide due to this. Fucking
           | around with them for youtube videos is the least we can do.
        
             | commandersaki wrote:
             | You understand the front line of the pig butchering scam
             | don't have agency, yet you call them thieves and burglars.
             | They're not the ones doing it, it is those who control
             | them. Having said that, I neither agree or disagree whether
             | youtube videos should gloat about how they've wasted their
             | time or whatever.
             | 
             | I think we need to make it practically impossible to run
             | the scam by having social media / messaging operators
             | shutdown fraudulent accounts, especially if reported.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | >>They're not the ones doing it, it is those who control
               | them
               | 
               | No, it is quite literally them doing it, not the people
               | running the operation. Same as if there is an organised
               | gang in my area it's the people who are in my house that
               | are doing the burglaring, not the people running the
               | gang.
               | 
               | And yes, I appreciate very much that they might not have
               | any choice in the matter which is why I said, I am
               | genuinely sympathetic to their position and I hope we can
               | solve this.
        
             | andrepd wrote:
             | Thank you for illustrating my point in a far more unhinged
             | manner than I could have possibly expected. Someone from a
             | first world country in 2026 unironically defending that
             | "thieves should be shot" needs to take a hard look at
             | himself. Probably a good idea also to read the first few
             | pages of Utopia by Thomas More, a fucking _510 year old
             | book_ where the author explains why this is such a
             | crushingly stupid (not to mention morally repugnant) way of
             | thinking.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | >>needs to take a hard look at himself.
               | 
               | I do every morning, having moral integrity is something
               | really important to me. I just still can't get over the
               | trauma of having my own home invaded, burglared, and the
               | people who did it getting away with it scott free - I
               | sincerely hope they get hit by a train and die a very
               | painful death.
               | 
               | >> Probably a good idea also to read the first few pages
               | of Utopia by Thomas More,
               | 
               | I will do that, it's bedtime for me now but I'll have a
               | look tomorrow.
        
       | dudefeliciano wrote:
       | A while back I thought I could make a bit of extra cash by
       | playing along with these scams, apparently they give returns on
       | the first/second round of investment and only run off with the
       | money once the sum is large enough for them. Knowing that someone
       | may get beaten or worse for losing money prevented me from going
       | through with it
        
         | Havoc wrote:
         | The returns show are general on app/paper only not something
         | you can actually withdraw
        
           | dudefeliciano wrote:
           | That makes sense to me and is what I would expect. I have
           | seen accounts where people were in fact allowed to withdraw
           | their small initial gains (although i can not confirm that
           | was the case, maybe they were just trying to save face)
           | that's what gave me the idea to scam the scammers in the
           | first place.
        
             | nsvd2 wrote:
             | They would likely allow you to withdraw some returns but
             | not the principle.
        
             | eli_gottlieb wrote:
             | Trying to scam the scammers is one of the world's oldest
             | ways of getting scammed.
        
           | skeptic_ai wrote:
           | They sent me to my usdt wallet. So i actually got it. Of
           | course after I earned 30 USD they make it impossible to
           | withdraw unless I "invested" 100 usd. Very weird scam to pay
           | out 30usd.
           | 
           | So means 1 in 3 people must invest 100 in order for them to
           | breakeven, which tbh doesn't make sense.
           | 
           | Also note that came from a random telegram account from
           | dubai.
           | 
           | They asked if I wanted to make money etc. I obviously thought
           | was a scam. I never expected to really cash out the 30 USD.
        
         | e40 wrote:
         | The phrase playing with fire comes to mind.
        
         | jonhohle wrote:
         | If you would be able to withdraw (you wouldn't be able to) that
         | money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is from
         | other people who were scammed.
         | 
         | No one is going to get beaten because of your interactions with
         | scammers. They're going to be beaten because they are enslaved.
        
       | CGMthrowaway wrote:
       | Is there an archive link somewhere? All I see is a 21 minute
       | podcast I can't listen to without a sub, and a single paragraph
       | of copy.
        
         | flancian wrote:
         | Found this archive link:
         | 
         | https://archive.is/2026.02.02-090119/https://www.wired.com/s...
        
       | e40 wrote:
       | I have noticed a dramatic decline in human scam calls and a
       | commensurate increase in ai calls.
        
       | LoveMortuus wrote:
       | I wouldn't say I'm enslaved, would be unfair.
       | 
       | That being said, I live in a room rented to me by the company
       | that hires me, I work for a customer service center, so it's not
       | a construction situation. The reason the company rents us rooms
       | is because we're not paid enough to afford normal rent.
       | 
       | All this means that if there's ever a ramp down, I'd be
       | immediately jobless and homeless, which does not feel good at
       | all...
        
         | nemomarx wrote:
         | If you added on top being in a foreign country and needing your
         | employer for your visa, I think you'd basically have the same
         | situation as the article?
         | 
         | So that's a little precarious. I hope you have some savings
         | built up.
        
         | RankingMember wrote:
         | A situation like you describe is ripe for abuse. H1Bs here deal
         | with similar precariousness, though not on the level of what it
         | sounds like you're dealing with. I hope your situation improves
         | and you gain some security.
        
       | RandyOrion wrote:
       | A related paper interviewing victims of the pig-butchering scams.
       | 
       | "Hello, is this Anna?": Unpacking the Lifecycle of Pig-Butchering
       | Scams [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.20821
        
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       (page generated 2026-02-02 23:01 UTC)