[HN Gopher] Apple Platform Security (Jan 2026) [pdf]
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       Apple Platform Security (Jan 2026) [pdf]
        
       Author : pieterr
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2026-01-31 16:04 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (help.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (help.apple.com)
        
       | OGEnthusiast wrote:
       | Glad there's still at least one tech company that cares about
       | personal security / opsec.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | No mention of Pegasus and other software of such sort. Can latest
       | iOS still be infected?
       | 
       | There is no point creating such document if elephant in the room
       | is not addressed.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Why? The obvious conclusion is that Apple is doing everything
         | in its power to make the answer "no."
         | 
         | You might as well enumerate all the viruses ever made on
         | Windows, point to them, and then ask why Microsoft isn't
         | proving they've shut them all down yet in their documents.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | That analogy misses the asymmetry in claims and power.
           | 
           | Microsoft does not sell Windows as a sealed, uncompromisable
           | appliance. It assumes a hostile environment, acknowledges
           | malware exists, and provides users and third parties with
           | inspection, detection, and remediation tools. Compromise is
           | part of the model.
           | 
           | Apple's model is the opposite. iOS is explicitly marketed as
           | secure because it forbids inspection, sideloading, and user
           | control. The promise is not "we reduce risk", it's "this
           | class of risk is structurally eliminated". That makes
           | omissions meaningful.
           | 
           | So when a document titled Apple Platform Security avoids
           | acknowledging Pegasus-class attacks at all, it isn't
           | comparable to Microsoft not listing every Windows virus.
           | These are not hypothetical threats. They are documented,
           | deployed, and explicitly designed to bypass the very
           | mechanisms Apple presents as definitive.
           | 
           | If Apple believes this class of attack is no longer viable,
           | that's worth stating. If it remains viable, that also
           | matters, because users have no independent way to assess
           | compromise. A vague notification that Apple "suspects"
           | something, with no tooling or verification path, is not
           | equivalent to a transparent security model.
           | 
           | The issue is not that Apple failed to enumerate exploits.
           | It's that the platform's credibility rests on an absolute
           | security narrative, while quietly excluding the one threat
           | model that contradicts it. In other words Apple's model is
           | good old security by obscurity.
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | Words words and more words, new levels of verbosity even
             | for a hacker, to say Apple has a weakness and isn't saying
             | they've patched it with certainty; as though nation-state
             | spyware can be conjured on demand from the heavens until
             | governments throw up their hands and say "curses, you've
             | fixed everything, we surrender." Even if there actually
             | were no bugs remaining, I certainly wouldn't sign an
             | affidavit saying no bugs will ever be found in the future.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | don't worry, they set the allow_pegasus boolean to false
        
           | goalieca wrote:
           | Apple did create a boolean for that. They call it lockdown
           | mode.
           | 
           | > Lockdown Mode is an optional, extreme protection that's
           | designed for the very few individuals who, because of who
           | they are or what they do, might be personally targeted by
           | some of the most sophisticated digital threats. Most people
           | are never targeted by attacks of this nature. When Lockdown
           | Mode is enabled, your device won't function like it typically
           | does. To reduce the attack surface that potentially could be
           | exploited by highly targeted mercenary spyware, certain apps,
           | websites, and features are strictly limited for security and
           | some experiences might not be available at all.
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | If Pegasus can break the iOS security model, there's no
             | reason to think it politely respects Lockdown Mode. It's
             | basically an admission the model failed, with features
             | turned off so users feel like they're doing something about
             | it.
        
               | jkubicek wrote:
               | Lockdown mode works by reducing the surface area of
               | possible exploits. I don't think there's any failures
               | here. Apple puts a lot of effort into resolving web-based
               | exploits, but they can also prevent entire classes of
               | exploits by just blocking you from opening any URL in
               | iMessage. It's safer, but most users wouldn't accept that
               | trade-off.
        
               | varispeed wrote:
               | Claiming reduced attack surface without showing which
               | exploit classes are actually eliminated is faith, not
               | security.
               | 
               | And Lockdown Mode is usually enabled _after_ user
               | suspects targeting.
        
               | goalieca wrote:
               | If you did RTFA for this story, you'll see on page 67
               | what I pasted with a link to the support article
               | describing to end users exactly what's blocked. It does
               | greatly reduce the attack surface.
        
         | wat10000 wrote:
         | Pegasus isn't magic. It exploits security vulnerabilities just
         | like everything else. Mitigating and fixing those
         | vulnerabilities is a major part of this document.
        
       | random_duck wrote:
       | Wow, this is hardcore (pun intended).
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | 262 pages!!! Pretty interesting to see how the different SoCs
       | have evolved security wise over time.
        
       | easton wrote:
       | Web version: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/welcome/web
        
         | sonu27 wrote:
         | That's Dec 2024
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | Then they turn around and upload your iMessages to their own
       | servers in a form that they can read, breaking their own E2EE.
       | Google Messages fixed this issue a long time ago. Why hasn't
       | Apple? https://james.darpinian.com/blog/apple-imessage-encryption
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | This is your blog post, so I'll ask you a question. What are
         | you trying to state in Belief #1? The message is unclear to me
         | with how it's worded:                 > In this table, in the
         | "iCloud Backup (including device and Messages backup)" row,
         | under "Standard data protection",        > the "Encryption"
         | column reads "In transit & on server". Yes, this means that
         | Apple can read all of your messages        > out of your iCloud
         | backups.
         | 
         | In addition to the things you mentioned, there's certainly a
         | possibility of Apple attaching a virtual "shadow" device to
         | someone's Apple ID with something like a _hide_from_customer_
         | type flag, so it would be invisible to the customer.
         | 
         | This shadow device would have it's own keys to read messages
         | sent to your iCloud account. To my knowledge, there's nothing
         | in the security model to prevent this.
        
           | shawnz wrote:
           | The table has two categorizations: "In transit & on server"
           | and "End-to-end". The former, which covers iCloud backups in
           | the default configuration, is explicitly NOT end-to-end,
           | meaning there are moments in time during processing where the
           | data is not encrypted.
           | 
           | However, iCloud backups actually are listed as "End-to-end"
           | if you turn on the new Advanced Data Protection feature.
        
           | digiown wrote:
           | Or Apple can also push an update, which you can't refuse,
           | that upon first message to iCloud just uploads your private
           | key. It's a bit foolish to count on encryption implemented by
           | the adversary you're trying to hide from. Of course, this
           | will most likely only affect individuals targeted by state-
           | level actors.
        
             | shawnz wrote:
             | IIRC Apple has attempted to implement some defences against
             | this, for example by requiring the passcode to be inputted
             | before an update can be installed to prevent another San
             | Bernardino scenario. A cursory search indicates that they
             | also have some kind of transparency log system for updates,
             | but it seems to only apply to their cloud systems and not
             | iOS updates.
        
           | microtonal wrote:
           | _This shadow device would have it 's own keys to read
           | messages sent to your iCloud account. To my knowledge,
           | there's nothing in the security model to prevent this._
           | 
           | Matthew Green has some great posts about iMessage security.
           | This one describes the key lookup issue:
           | 
           | https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/09/lets-
           | tal...
           | 
           | Looking at the linked Apple Platform Security, it seems like
           | the Apple Identity Service is still used as a public key
           | directory.
        
         | philsnow wrote:
         | What is "Google Messages"? I can't count the number of articles
         | people have written over time about how many first-party
         | messaging apps Google themselves have put out (and then put
         | down), not to mention what messaging apps get shoveled on by
         | third-party android integrators.
         | 
         | > the main reason a message wouldn't be properly end-to-end
         | encrypted in Google's Messages app is when communicating with
         | an iPhone user, because Apple has dragged their feet on
         | implementing RCS features in iMessage
         | 
         | (or with any other android user who isn't using a first-party
         | device / isn't using this one app)
         | 
         | > [...] Android's equivalent cloud backup service has been
         | properly end-to-end encrypted by default for many years.
         | Meaning that you don't need to convince the whole world to turn
         | on an optional feature before your backups can be fully
         | protected.
         | 
         | You make it out to seem that it's impossible for Google to read
         | your cloud backups, but the article you link to [0] earlier in
         | your post says that "this passcode-protected key material is
         | encrypted to a Titan security chip _on our datacenter floor_ "
         | (emphasis added). So they have your encrypted cloud backup, and
         | the only way to get the key material to decrypt it is to get it
         | from an HSM in their datacenter, every part of which and the
         | access to which they control... sounds like it's not really any
         | better than Apple, from what I'm reading here. Granted, that
         | article is from 2018 and I certainly have not been keeping up
         | on android things.
         | 
         | [0] https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/google-and-
         | android-h...
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | HSMs are designed to protect encryption keys from everyone
           | including the manufacturer. Signal trusts them for their
           | encryption features. It's the best security possible for E2EE
           | backups with passcode recovery, and Apple does it too for the
           | subset of data that they do real E2EE backups on, like
           | Keychain passwords. Characterizing using an HSM to implement
           | E2EE securely as "not any better than" just giving up on E2EE
           | for messages backups is ridiculous.
        
             | philsnow wrote:
             | The HSMs that Signal and Apple are using are on-device
             | though. Yes you still have to trust Signal / Apple to not
             | exfil your key matter once decrypted by the HSM, but I
             | submit that that is materially better than having the HSMs
             | be hosted in a datacenter.
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | Signal and Apple and Google all use HSMs in datacenters
               | as well as on device.
        
         | TheNewsIsHere wrote:
         | You can enable Advanced Data Protection to address that issue
         | with iMessages.
         | 
         | Giving users an option between both paths is usually best. Most
         | users care a lot more that they can't restore a usable backup
         | of their messages than they do that their messages are
         | unreadable by the company storing them.
         | 
         | I used to work at a company where our products were built
         | around encryption. Users here on HN are not the norm. You can't
         | trust that most users will save recovery codes, encryption seed
         | phrases, etc in a manner that will be both available and usable
         | when they need them, and then they tend to care a lot less
         | about the privacy properties that provides and a lot more that
         | they no longer have their messages with {deceased spouse, best
         | friend, business partner, etc}.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | > Apple can still read any message you exchange with
           | practically anyone through _their_ iCloud backups, since they
           | are overwhelmingly likely to have backups enabled and
           | overwhelmingly _un_ likely to have proactively enabled the
           | non-default "Advanced Data Protection" feature.
           | 
           | > They could have implemented iMessage to not backup messages
           | from people who enabled ADP, but they didn't. They won't even
           | inform you when your conversation partner has uploaded your
           | messages to Apple's servers in a form that Apple can read.
           | 
           | > Android's equivalent cloud backup service has been properly
           | end-to-end encrypted by default for many years. Meaning that
           | you don't need to convince the whole world to turn on an
           | optional feature before your backups can be fully protected.
           | 
           | > Apple's stated reason for not enabling end-to-end
           | encryption on iCloud backups by default is that it would
           | cause data loss when users lose their devices. But Google's
           | implementation avoids this problem. Furthermore, Apple does
           | do end-to-end encryption by default on other critical
           | information that would be painful to lose, such as your
           | account passwords stored in Keychain. So that excuse doesn't
           | seem to hold water.
        
       | whitepoplar wrote:
       | Given that A19 + M5 processors with MIE (EMTE) were only recently
       | introduced, I wonder how extensively MacOS/iOS make use of the
       | hardware features. Is it something that's going to take several
       | years to see the benefit, or does MIE provide thorough protection
       | today?
        
         | bri3d wrote:
         | I think all of the kernel allocators and most (?) system
         | processes in iOS 26 have MIE enabled, as does libpas (the
         | WebKit allocator), so it's already doing quite a lot.
        
         | armadyl wrote:
         | I was just watching a video on this yesterday:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5McB6-2r-ds
         | 
         | Apple's implementation of MTE is relatively limited in scope
         | compared to GrapheneOS (and even stock Android with advanced
         | security enabled) as it's hardware intensive and degrades
         | performance. I imagine once things get fast enough we could see
         | synchronous MTE enabled everywhere.
         | 
         | It is curious at the moment though that enabling something like
         | Lockdown Mode doesn't force MTE everywhere, which imo it
         | should. I think the people who are willing to accept the
         | compromises of enabling that would likely also be willing to
         | tolerate the app crashes, worse performance etc that would come
         | with globally enabled MTE.
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | But all the software is closed source, and there is little to no
       | opportunity to verify all these security claims. You don't have
       | the encryption keys, so effectively the data is not under your
       | control.
       | 
       | If you want to see security done well (or at least better), see
       | the GrapheneOS project.
        
         | digiown wrote:
         | GrapheneOS also doesn't give you the encryption keys. If you
         | run the official version, there is no way for you to extract
         | the data from your device at all beyond what app developers
         | will let you access. This means that you do not own the data on
         | your device. The backups are even less effective than Apple's,
         | although they say they will work on it.
         | 
         | The developers also appear to believe that the apps have a
         | right to inspect the trustworthiness of the user's device, by
         | offering to support apps that would trust their keys [1],
         | locking out users who maintain their freedom by building their
         | own forks.
         | 
         | It's disheartening that a lot of security-minded people seem to
         | be fixated on the "AOSP security model", without realizing or
         | ignoring the fact that a lot of that security is aimed at
         | protecting the apps from the users, not the other way around.
         | App sandboxing is great, but I should still be able to see the
         | app data, even if via an inconvenient method such as the adb
         | shell.
         | 
         | 1. https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-
         | gu...
        
           | zb3 wrote:
           | For some reason they don't release userdebug versions which
           | was a dealbreaker for me.. (the device should be secure, but
           | not against me)
           | 
           | But if you wish to build it from source, it could probably be
           | a good option.
        
             | digiown wrote:
             | You can re-sign it using
             | https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot
             | 
             | I don't currently have any root on the phone, but I reserve
             | the right to add it or run the userdebug build at a later
             | date
        
           | armadyl wrote:
           | > The developers also appear to believe that the apps have a
           | right to inspect the trustworthiness of the user's device, by
           | offering to support apps that would trust their keys [1],
           | locking out users who maintain their freedom by building
           | their own forks.
           | 
           | That is not a bad thing. The alternative is not having apps
           | that do these checks available on the platform at all. It's
           | ridiculous that someone should expect that every fork of it
           | should have that capability (because the average developer is
           | not going to accept the keys of someone's one off fork).
           | 
           | If there's anyone to blame, it should be the app developers
           | choosing to do that (benefits of attestation aside).
           | 
           | Attestation is also a security feature, which is one of the
           | points of GOS. People are free to use any other distribution
           | of Android if they take issue with it.
           | 
           | Obviously I could be wrong here, this is just the general
           | sentiment that I get from reading GOS documentation and its
           | developer's comments.
        
             | digiown wrote:
             | > Attestation is also a security feature
             | 
             | I don't actually disagree with this. The auditor is a
             | perfectly valid use of it. It's good to be able to verify
             | cryptographically _your_ device is running what it 's
             | supposed to.
             | 
             | The problem is when it transcends ownership boundaries and
             | becomes a mechanism to exert control over things someone
             | doesn't own, like your bank or government controlling your
             | phone. It is one of the biggest threats to ownership
             | worldwide.
             | 
             | Note also that getting "trusted" comes at the cost of other
             | security features, such as spoofing your location securely
             | to apps:
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44685283
        
           | surajrmal wrote:
           | You were not going to be able to use those apps anyways, so
           | what does it matter to you? I, and I suspect many, agree with
           | the purpose of attestation. The problems around it are
           | strictly around establishing good ways to teach apps who they
           | should trust, not around attestation itself. By putting your
           | head in the sand, you'll never improve the situation.
        
             | digiown wrote:
             | > teach apps who they should trust
             | 
             | Ah, the apps^Wgovernment (look at that page, most of it is
             | government IDs) should be able to discriminate against me
             | for daring to assert control over my own device. And
             | GrapheneOS is saying:
             | 
             | Hey government! We pinky promise to oppress the user just
             | the same, but even more securely and competently than
             | Google/Samsung!
             | 
             | > what does it matter to you
             | 
             | It shows that the developers maybe don't fully have your
             | best interests at heart?
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Yes, how can we verify this? Who says three-letter agencies
         | have no access?
        
       | rrgok wrote:
       | Sometime I wonder how much overhead all these security features
       | take in terms of performance.
       | 
       | I would really like to see a benchmark with and without security
       | measures.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | It's not really possible to make a direct comparison, given
         | that a big chunk of the features are baked into the silicon, or
         | are architecture-level choices.
        
           | TheNewsIsHere wrote:
           | It's _technically_ possible, but it would be difficult and
           | likely require breaching an NDA. A bit pedantic, perhaps, but
           | it's out there.
           | 
           | Apple makes available on a highly controlled basis iPhones
           | which permit the user to disable "virtually all" of the
           | security features. They're available only to vetted security
           | researchers who apply for one, often under some kind of
           | sponsorship, and they're designed to obviously announce what
           | they are. For example they are engraved on the sides with
           | "Confidential and Proprietary. Property of Apple".
           | 
           | They're loaned, not sold or given, remain Apple's property,
           | and are provided on a 12-month (optionally renewable) basis.
           | You have to apply and be selected by Apple to receive one,
           | and you have to agree to some (understandable but) onerous
           | requirements laid out in an legal agreement.
           | 
           | I expect that if you were to interrogate these iPhones they
           | would report that the CPU fuse state isn't "Production" like
           | the models that are sold.
           | 
           | They refer to these iPhones as Security Research Devices, or
           | SRDs.
        
             | Retr0id wrote:
             | These devices still _have_ all the security features.
        
         | relium wrote:
         | The ones I remember most affecting performance were zeroing
         | allocated memory and the Spectre/Meltdown fix. Also, the first
         | launch of a new app is slow in order to check the signature.
         | Whole disk encryption is pretty fast today, but probably is a
         | bit slower than unencrypted. The original FileVault using disk
         | images was even slower.
        
           | mcculley wrote:
           | > Whole disk encryption is pretty fast today, but probably is
           | a bit slower than unencrypted.
           | 
           | Isn't whole disk encryption nowadays done in hardware on the
           | storage controller?
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | Protects the device well... against the owner of the device using
       | it as they wish :)
        
       | wcfrobert wrote:
       | Apple's commitment to privacy and security is really cool to see.
       | It's also an amazing strategic play that they are uniquely in the
       | position to take advantage of. Google and Meta can't commit to
       | privacy because they need to show you ads, whereas Apple feels
       | more like a hardware company to me.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | You know what's even cooler? Apple's commitment to hiding US
         | federally-mandated backdoors for dragnet surveillance:
         | https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...
         | Apple has since confirmed in a statement provided to Ars that
         | the US federal government "prohibited" the company "from
         | sharing any information," but now that Wyden has outed the
         | feds, Apple has updated its transparency reporting and will
         | "detail these kinds of requests" in a separate section on push
         | notifications in its next report.
        
         | Noaidi wrote:
         | That people fall for this corporate BS while Tim Cook is giving
         | gold bars to Trump and dining and dancing with him When people
         | are being murdered on the streets by ice is just amazing to me.
        
           | OGEnthusiast wrote:
           | Well that's what Americans voted for. So I don't think anyone
           | cares that every CEO (definitely not just Tim Cook) is
           | schmoozing with Trump.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | > Well that's what Americans voted for.
             | 
             | Americans are not one person.
             | 
             | > So I don't think anyone cares
             | 
             | Clearly they do.
             | 
             | > every CEO (definitely not just Tim Cook) is schmoozing
             | with Trump.
             | 
             | Tim Cook was (supposedly) principled. I guess it's hard to
             | pretend that you care about privacy or human rights while
             | eating dinner next to bin Salman.
        
               | OGEnthusiast wrote:
               | > Tim Cook was (supposedly) principled. I guess it's hard
               | to pretend that you care about privacy or human rights
               | while eating dinner next to bin Salman.
               | 
               | I guess if you thought he had principles then yeah that
               | could be disappointing. Personally I've never tried to
               | moralize corporations though, I just assume the only
               | principle that every company and CEO operates by is
               | whatever increases the stock price.
        
             | Noaidi wrote:
             | Funny that you think that people have free will under this
             | zombie social media mind controlled Internet world we're
             | living in.
             | 
             | Besides Trump's approval ratings are worse than ever so I
             | don't think people really got what they wanted, they got
             | who they voted for not what they voted for.
        
               | n8cpdx wrote:
               | The Twinkie defense is alive and well, I see.
        
             | bambax wrote:
             | Yeah Americans voted for Trump. But that shouldn't prevent
             | CEOs to show a spine. Tim Cook is no different from all the
             | others, therefore Apple doesn't deserve any less contempt
             | from us.
        
         | vrosas wrote:
         | You know this is just marketing right? Apple gives zero fucks
         | about security. They just use it to lock competitors out of
         | their gardens and preach a holier-than-thou attitude about it.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | All while slowly stuffing (more?) ads into their software.
           | 
           | In a lot of ways Apple is as aligned to data privacy the same
           | way other "platforms" are: to gatekeep the user data behind
           | their ad service. It's better than selling your data, maybe,
           | but you're still being tracked and monitored.
        
             | isodev wrote:
             | The worst part is since Apple is technically not a 3rd
             | party, many of the rules don't apply to them even though
             | they bring the same harm to the users. Did you notice the
             | new "creative suite" has analytics with identities linked
             | to your Apple account turned on by defend? Free
             | Pages/Numbers is not so free anymore.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | > Apple gives zero fucks about security.
           | 
           | Hyperbole doesn't help your point. They definitely care about
           | security, their profits depend on it.
        
         | jtbayly wrote:
         | modeless linked to this article earlier today:
         | 
         | https://james.darpinian.com/blog/apple-imessage-encryption/
         | 
         | My current understanding of the facts:
         | 
         | 1. Google defaults to encrypted backups of messages, as well as
         | e2e encryption of messages.
         | 
         | 2. Apple defaults only to e2ee of messages, leaving a massive
         | backdoor.
         | 
         | 3. Closing that backdoor is possible for the consumer, by
         | enabling ADP (advanced data protection) on your device.
         | However, this makes no difference, since 99.9% of the people
         | you communicate will not close the backdoor. Thus, the only way
         | to live is to assume that _all_ the messages you send via
         | iMessage will _always_ be accessible to Apple, no matter what
         | you do.
         | 
         | It's not like _overall_ I think Google is better for privacy
         | than Apple, but this choice by Apple is _really_ at odds with
         | their supposed emphasis on privacy.
        
           | dd8601fn wrote:
           | ADP isn't the default, and almost nobody who isn't a
           | journalist/activist/potential target turns it on, because of
           | the serious (potentially destructive) consequences.
           | 
           | How does Google manage this, such every normie on earth isn't
           | freaking out?
        
             | buckle8017 wrote:
             | Nobody expects their text messages to be backed up.
             | 
             | They get deleted and people shrug.
        
         | isodev wrote:
         | > Apple's commitment to privacy
         | 
         | We know now that it was all marketing talk. Apple didn't like
         | Meta so they spun a bunch of obstacles. Apple has and would use
         | your data for ads, models and anything that keeps the
         | shareholders happy. And we don't know the half of the story
         | where as a US corp, they're technically obliged to share data
         | from the not-E2EE iCloud syncs of every iPhone.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Apple has ads. See the App Store, Apple Maps is also planning
         | to roll out advertising.
        
         | derbOac wrote:
         | It's all tempered by them ultimately controlling what you can
         | put on your phone though.
         | 
         | As was demonstrated in LA, it's starting to have significant
         | civil rights consequences.
        
           | throwaway290 wrote:
           | Security is pointless if platform allows 90% users to be
           | social engineered into running code disabling that security
        
         | ioasuncvinvaer wrote:
         | Apple is an ad company now though
        
           | baxtr wrote:
           | Apple sells some ads yes. But it's a tiny fraction of their
           | revenue.
           | 
           | Would Google or Meta go bankrupt if they stopped selling ads?
           | Yes. Apple wouldn't.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | Apple would go bankrupt without US protectionist policy
             | propping up their service revenue.
             | 
             | That's pretty bad. Maybe not "reliant on ad monopoly" bad,
             | but pretty close.
        
               | porcoda wrote:
               | In their revenue report this week out of $140B, services
               | made up 30B. 140B-30B = 110B. Thats pretty far from
               | bankruptcy.
        
               | manuelabeledo wrote:
               | Elaborate? Financial results say otherwise.
        
             | avazhi wrote:
             | What does whether they'd go bankrupt or not have to do with
             | whether they're an ad company?
             | 
             | They sell third party ads: companies unaffiliated with
             | Apple pay Apple to advertise on Apple platforms.
             | 
             | They're an ad company. Just because it's currently a small
             | slice of their total revenue doesn't make it untrue.
        
               | baxtr wrote:
               | I mean if you don't care about details that's fine I
               | guess. Let's call any company that sells and/or buys any
               | amount of ads an "ad company". Let's put them all into
               | one bucket and judge. That's super valuable.
        
               | anon7000 wrote:
               | What matters is that the parent comment said "Apple is an
               | ad company now," as if that negated all the privacy and
               | security stuff they do.
               | 
               | Making some cash on ads doesn't _have_ to rely on
               | targeted tracking. That only matters if ads are an
               | existential part of your business, and without huge ad
               | revenue growth, your company is dead.
        
               | manuelabeledo wrote:
               | I guess it's also a financial company, since they have a
               | branded credit card?
        
           | shepherdjerred wrote:
           | Apple's ad revenue was 1% of its total in 2024. It was
           | estimated to be 2-3% in 2025.
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2024-q4/FY24_Q4_Consol.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://www.macrumors.com/2025/10/30/apple-4q-2025-earnings/
        
         | eddyg wrote:
         | I still like to encourage people to watch _all_ of
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGFriOKz6U&t=1993s for the
         | details (from Apple's head of Security Engineering and
         | Architecture) about how iCloud is protected by HSMs, rate
         | limits, etc. but _especially_ the timelinked section. :)
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | I still recommend _Mr. Fart 's Favorite Colors_ as a
           | refutation, describing why all of these precautions cannot
           | protect you in a real-world security model:
           | https://medium.com/@blakeross/mr-fart-s-favorite-
           | colors-3177...                 Unbreakable phones are coming.
           | We'll have to decide who controls the cockpit: The captain?
           | Or the cabin?
        
             | eddyg wrote:
             | Krstic: "Here's how we reduce the chance that even Apple
             | can access or alter X, and here's how we can make that
             | credible."
             | 
             | Ross: "Even if you make X cryptographically airtight, the
             | real fight becomes political/physical coercion: 'ship this
             | or else.'"
             | 
             | Those can both be true at the same time.
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | I claim bs at this whole apple privacy thing, nothing but
         | propaganda.
         | 
         | Two years ago I was locked out of my MacBook pro.
         | 
         | Then I just booted in some recovery mode and just..reset the
         | password!?
         | 
         | Sure macos logged me off from (most) apps and website, but
         | every single file was there unencrypted!
         | 
         | I swear people that keep boasting that whole apple privacy
         | thing have absolutely no clue what they are talking about,
         | nothing short of tech illiterate charlatans. But God the
         | propaganda works.
         | 
         | And don't start me on iMessage.
        
           | n8cpdx wrote:
           | You chose not to enable FileVault during setup. Probably
           | because you were worried about being locked out and wanted an
           | easy way to reset the password.
           | 
           | Would you prefer that Apple did not give you the option to
           | disable the security feature you disabled during setup?
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | Ain't nobody paying attention, in any case it's still
             | propaganda.
        
       | willturman wrote:
       | You can request a downloadable a copy of any/all of the data that
       | Apple has associated with your account at
       | https://privacy.apple.com.
       | 
       | This apparently includes retrieving all photos from iCloud in
       | chunks of specified size, which seems an infinitely better option
       | than attempting to download them through the iCloud web interface
       | which caps downloads to 1000 photos at a time at less than
       | impressive download speeds.
        
       | gumby271 wrote:
       | It sucks that Apple decided to monitize iPhone the way they have,
       | by controlling the owners ability to install software of their
       | choosing. Ignoring the arguments one could make about this making
       | it "more secure" it's clearly disrespectful to the power user
       | that doesn't want to beg Apple's permission to use their
       | computer. I'll grant them their security claims are sound, but
       | it's hard to take them serious regarding privacy arguments.
       | 
       | Our choices are either (A) an OS monitized by tracking user
       | interaction and activity, or (B) monitized by owning the basic
       | act of installing software on the device, both of these options
       | suck and I struggle to give up the more open option for one that
       | might be more secure.
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | _Ignoring the arguments one could make about this making it
         | "more secure" it's clearly disrespectful to the power user that
         | doesn't want to beg Apple's permission to use their computer.
         | I'll grant them their security claims are sound,_
         | 
         | I wouldn't say they are sound. First, macOS provides the
         | freedom to install your own applications (ok, they need to be
         | signed and notarized if the quarantine attribute is set) and
         | it's not the case that the Mac has mass malware infestations.
         | Second, the App Store is full of scams, so App Store - safe,
         | external - unsafe is a false dichotomy.
         | 
         | Apple uses these arguments, but of course the real reason is
         | that they want to continue to keep 30% of every transaction
         | made on an iPhone or iPad. This is why they have responded to
         | the DMA with a lot of malicious compliance that makes it nearly
         | impossible to run an alt-store financially.
         | 
         | (Despite my qualms about not being able to install apps outside
         | the app store, I do think they are doing a lot of good work of
         | making the platform more secure.)
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | The OP is about security and you specifically ignore security
         | when bringing up a common flamewar topic for which much
         | discussion has already been had on this site. Perhaps such
         | discussion could at least be limited to articles where it is
         | less tenuously related.
        
           | gumby271 wrote:
           | I guess I bring it up in the sense that no matter how good
           | their security is, it still sucks that Apple products are so
           | hostile to their owners. It's hard to be impressed by their
           | security work with the platform being what it is.
           | 
           | Security, privacy, and ownership aren't equally separated in
           | my mind.
        
       | promiseofbeans wrote:
       | They made C memory safe? This is a big thing to gloss over in a
       | single paragraph. Does anyone have extra details on this?
       | 
       | > On devices with iOS 14 and iPadOS 14 or later, Apple modified
       | the C compiler toolchain used to build the iBoot bootloader to
       | improve its security. The modified toolchain implements code
       | designed to prevent memory- and type-safety issues that are
       | typically encountered in C programs. For example, it helps
       | prevent most vulnerabilities in the following classes:
       | 
       | > * Buffer overflows, by ensuring that all pointers carry bounds
       | information that's verified when accessing memory
       | 
       | > * Heap exploitation, by separating heap data from its metadata
       | and accurately detecting error conditions such as double free
       | errors
       | 
       | > * Type confusion, by ensuring that all pointers carry runtime
       | type information that's verified during pointer cast operations
       | 
       | > * Type confusion caused by use after free errors, by
       | segregating all dynamic memory allocations by static type
        
         | vsgherzi wrote:
         | Sort of. From my understanding they've been heavily using clang
         | with fbounds checks to insert checks into functions. I think
         | there was work done to try to insert them into existing code as
         | well. They memory tagging in new processors help avoid overflow
         | exploitation. Maybe someone can jump in and add more details
        
         | bri3d wrote:
         | Many years ago. It's called Firebloom. I think it's similar in
         | theory and lineage to Fil-C.
         | 
         | https://saaramar.github.io/iBoot_firebloom/
        
         | 1over137 wrote:
         | >They made C memory safe?
         | 
         | They made a dialect of C with bounds safety, see:
         | 
         | https://clang.llvm.org/docs/BoundsSafety.html#overview
        
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