[HN Gopher] Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interact...
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       Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worlds
        
       Author : meetpateltech
       Score  : 362 points
       Date   : 2026-01-29 17:02 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.google)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.google)
        
       | meetpateltech wrote:
       | Google Deepmind Page: https://deepmind.google/models/genie/
       | 
       | Try it in Google Labs: https://labs.google/projectgenie
       | 
       | (Project Genie is available to Google AI Ultra subscribers in the
       | US 18+.)
        
       | nickandbro wrote:
       | This could be the future of film. Instead of prompting where you
       | don't know what the model will produce, you could use fine-
       | grained motion controls to get the shot you are looking for. If
       | you want to adjust the shot after, you could just checkpoint the
       | model there, by taking a screenshot, and rerun. Crazy.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I feel like people are already currently doing this.
         | Essentially storyboarding first.
         | 
         | This guy a month ago for example: https://youtu.be/SGJC4Hnz3m0
        
       | mosquitobiten wrote:
       | Every character goes forward only, permanence is still out of
       | reach apparently.
        
         | mikelevins wrote:
         | I've been experimenting with that from a slightly different
         | angle: teaching Claude how to play and referee a pencil-and-
         | paper RPG that I developed over about 20 years starting in the
         | mid 1970s. Claude can't quite do it yet for reasons related to
         | permanence and learning over time, but it can do surprisingly
         | well up until it runs into those problems, and it's possible to
         | help it past some obstacles.
         | 
         | The game is called "Explorers' Guild", or "xg" for short. It's
         | easier for Claude to act as a player than a director (xg's
         | version of a dungeon master or game master), again mainly
         | because of permance and learning issues, but to the extent that
         | I can help it past those issues it's also fairly good at acting
         | as a director. It does require some pretty specific stuff in
         | the system prompt to, for example, avoid confabulating stuff
         | that doesn't fit the world or the scenario.
         | 
         | But to really build a version of xg on Claude it needs better
         | ways to remember and improve what it has learned about playing
         | the game, and what it has learned about a specific group of
         | players in a specific scenario as it develops over time.
        
         | matt_LLVW wrote:
         | Looks good to me:
         | https://youtu.be/15KtGNgpVnE?t=648&si=urWJGEFWuN5veh43
        
       | montebicyclelo wrote:
       | Reminds me of this [1] HN post from 9 months ago, where the
       | author trained a neural network to do world emulation from video
       | recordings of their local park -- you can walk around in their
       | interactive demo [2].
       | 
       | I don't have access to the DeepMind demo, but from the video it
       | looks like it takes the idea up a notch.
       | 
       | (I don't know the exact lineage of these ideas, but a general
       | observation is that it's a shame that it's the norm for blog
       | posts / indie demos to not get cited.)
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43798757
       | 
       | [2] https://madebyoll.in/posts/world_emulation_via_dnn/demo/
        
         | ollin wrote:
         | Yup, similar concepts! Just at two opposite extremes of the
         | compute/scaling spectrum.
         | 
         | - That forest trail world is ~5 million parameters, trained on
         | 15 minutes of video, scoped to run on a five-year-old iPhone
         | through a twenty-year old API (WebGL GPGPU, i.e OpenGL fragment
         | shaders). It's the smallest '3D' world model I'm aware of.
         | 
         | - Genie 3 is (most likely) ~100 billion parameters trained on
         | millions of hours of video and running across multiple TPUs. I
         | would be shocked if it's not the largest-scale world model
         | available to the public.
         | 
         | There are lots of neat intermediate-scale world models being
         | developed as well (e.g. LingBot-World
         | https://github.com/robbyant/lingbot-world, Waypoint 1
         | https://huggingface.co/blog/waypoint-1) so I expect we'll be
         | able to play something of Genie quality locally on gaming GPUs
         | within a year or two.
        
       | 0xcb0 wrote:
       | I keep on repeating myself, but it feels like I'm living in the
       | future. Can't wait to hook this up to my old Oculus glasses and
       | let Genie create a fully realistic sailing simulator for me,
       | where I can train sailing with realistic conditions. On boats I'd
       | love to sail.
       | 
       | If making games out of these simulations work, it't be the end
       | for a lot of big studios, and might be the renaissance for small
       | to one person game studios.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | ...and then, the pneumatics in your living room.
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | Isn't this still essentially "vibe simulation" inferred from
         | videos? Surface-level visual realism is one thing, but
         | expecting it to figure out the exact physical mechanics of
         | sailing just by watching boats, and usefully abstract that into
         | a gamified form, is another thing entirely.
        
           | falcor84 wrote:
           | Why wouldn't it just hook it into something like physx?
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | Google has made it clear that Genie doesn't maintain an
             | explicit 3D scene representation, so I don't think hooking
             | in "assists" like that is on the table. Even if it were,
             | the AI layer would still have to infer things like object
             | weight, density, friction and linkages correctly. Garbage
             | in, garbage out.
        
           | JeremyNT wrote:
           | Yeah I have a whole lot of trouble imagining this replacing
           | traditional video games any time soon; we have actually very
           | good and performant representations of how physics work, and
           | games are tuned for the player to have an enjoyable
           | experience.
           | 
           | There's obviously something insanely impressive about these
           | google experiments, and it certainly feels like there's some
           | kind of use case for them somewhere, but I'm not sure exactly
           | where they fit in.
        
         | nsilvestri wrote:
         | The bottleneck for games of any size is always whether they are
         | good. There are plenty of small indies which do not put out
         | good games. I don't see world models improving game design or
         | fun factors.
         | 
         | If I am wrong, then the huge supply of fun games will
         | completely saturate demand and be no easier for indie game devs
         | to stand out.
        
         | bdbdbdb wrote:
         | It's very impressive tech but subject to the same limitations
         | as other generative AI: Inconsistency, inaccurate physics,
         | limited time, lag, massively expensive computation.
         | 
         | You COULD create a sailing sim but after ten minutes you might
         | be walking on water, or in the bath, and it would use more
         | power than a small ferry.
         | 
         | There's no way this tech can run on a PS5 or anything close to
         | it.
        
           | ziofill wrote:
           | You raise good points, but I think the "it's not good enough"
           | stance won't last for long.
        
           | WarmWash wrote:
           | Five years is nothing to wait for tech like this. I'm sure we
           | will see the first crop of, however small, "terminally
           | plugged in" humans on the back of this in the relatively near
           | future.
        
         | Avicebron wrote:
         | Honestly getting a Sunfish is probably cheaper than the a VR
         | headset if you want to "train sailing"
        
         | avaer wrote:
         | > If making games out of these simulations work, it't be the
         | end for a lot of big studios, and might be the renaissance for
         | small to one person game studios.
         | 
         | I mean, if making a game eventually boils down to cooking a
         | sufficient prompt (which to be clear, I'm not talking about
         | text, these prompts are probably going to be more like video
         | databases) then I'm not sure if it will be a renaissance for
         | "one person game studios" any more than AI image generation has
         | been a renaissance for "one person artists".
         | 
         | I want to be optimistic but it's hard to deny the massive
         | distribution stranglehold that media publishing landscape has,
         | and that has nothing to do with technology.
        
         | hagbarth wrote:
         | > and might be the renaissance for small to one person game
         | studios.
         | 
         | Indie games are already bigger than ever as far as I know.
        
       | srameshc wrote:
       | What's the endgame here? For a small gaming studio, what are the
       | actual implications?
        
         | educasean wrote:
         | I understand the ultimate end goal to be simulation of life. A
         | near perfect replica of the real world we can use to simulate
         | and test medicine, economy, and social impact.
        
         | aurumque wrote:
         | I would think that building a environment which can be managed
         | by a game engine is the first pass. In a few years when we are
         | able to render more than 60 seconds it could very well replace
         | the game engine entirely by just rendering everything in
         | realtime based on user interactions. The final phase is just
         | prompts which turn directly into interactive games, maybe even
         | multiplayer. When I see the progress we've made on things like
         | DOOM, where it can infer the proper rendering of actions like
         | firing weapons and even updating scores on hits and such it
         | doesn't feel like we're very far off, a few years at most. For
         | a game studio that could mean cutting out almost everything
         | between keyboard and display, but for now just replacing the
         | asset pipeline is huge.
        
           | mikewittie wrote:
           | We seem to think that Genie is good at the creative part, but
           | bad at the consistency and performance part. How hard would
           | it be to take 60 seconds of Genie output and pipe it into a
           | model that generates a consistent and performant 3D
           | environment?
        
         | hiccuphippo wrote:
         | It seems to be generating images in real time, not 3d scenes.
         | It might still be useful for prototyping.
        
           | saberience wrote:
           | There are collisions though and physics seemingly, so it
           | doesn't seen to be a huge stretch that this could be used for
           | games.
        
         | xyzsparetimexyz wrote:
         | It means you should go the other way. Open world winning
         | against smaller, handcrafted environments and stories was
         | generally a mistake, and so is this.
        
           | mediaman wrote:
           | What does it mean, that open world winning was a mistake?
           | That the market is wrong, and peoples' preferences were
           | incorrect, and they should prefer small handcrafted
           | environments instead of what they seem to actually buy?
        
         | in-silico wrote:
         | The endgame has nothing to do with gaming.
         | 
         | The goal of world models like Genie is to be a way for AI and
         | robots to "imagine" things. Then, they could practice tasks
         | inside of the simulated world or reason about actions by
         | simulating their outcome.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | Screensavers for robots?
        
       | sy26 wrote:
       | I have been confused for a long time why FB is not motivated
       | enough to invest in world models, it IS the key to unblock their
       | "metaverse" vision. And instead they let go Yann LeCun.
        
         | phailhaus wrote:
         | Most people don't like putting on VR headsets, no matter what
         | the content is. It just never broke out of the tech enthusiast
         | niche.
        
         | observationist wrote:
         | LeCun wasn't producing results. He was obstinate and insistent
         | on his own theories and ideas which weren't, and possibly
         | aren't, going anywhere. He refused to engage with LLMs and
         | compete in the market that exists, and spent all his effort and
         | energy on unproven ideas and research, which split the
         | company's mission and competitiveness. They lost their place as
         | one of the top 4 AI companies, and are now a full generation
         | behind, in part due to the split efforts and lack of
         | enthusiastic participation by all the Meta AI team. If you look
         | at the chaos and churn at the highest levels across the
         | industry, there's not a lot of room for mission creep by
         | leadership, and LeCun thoroughly demonstrated he wasn't suited
         | for the mission desired by Meta.
         | 
         | I think he's lucky he got out with his reputation relatively
         | intact.
        
           | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
           | Were you there or just an attentive outsider?
        
             | observationist wrote:
             | Attentive outsider and acquaintance of a couple people who
             | are or were employed there. Nothing I'm saying is
             | particularly inside baseball, though, it's pretty well
             | covered by all the blogs and podcasts.
        
               | richard___ wrote:
               | What podcast?
        
               | observationist wrote:
               | Machine Learning Street Talk and Dwarkesh are excellent.
               | Various discord communities, forums, and blogs downstream
               | of the big podcasts, and following researchers on X keeps
               | you in the loop on a lot of these things, and then you
               | can watch for random interviews and presentations on
               | youtube when you know who the interesting people and
               | subjects are.
        
             | qwertyi0k wrote:
             | Most serious researchers want to work on interesting
             | problems like reinforcement learning or robotics or RNN or
             | dozen other avant-garde subjects. None want to work on
             | "boring" LLM technology, requiring significant engineering
             | effort and huge dataset wrangling effort.
        
               | observationist wrote:
               | This is true - Ilya got an exit and is engaged in serious
               | research, but research is by its nature unpredictable.
               | Meta wanted a product and to compete in the AI market,
               | and JEPA was incompatible with that. Now LeCun has a lab
               | and resources to pursue his research, and Meta has
               | refocused efforts on LLMs and the marketplace - it
               | remains to be seen if they'll be able to regain their
               | position. I hope they do - open models and relatively
               | open research are important, and the more serious AI labs
               | that do this, the more it incentivizes others to do the
               | same, and keeps the ones that have committed to it
               | honest.
        
           | ezst wrote:
           | Since a hot take is as good as the next one: LLMs are by the
           | day more and more clearly understood as a "local maximum"
           | with flawed capabilities, limited efficiency, a $trillion + a
           | large chunk of the USA's GDP wasted, nobody even turning a
           | profit from that nor able to build something that can't be
           | reproduced for free within 6 months.
           | 
           | When the right move (strategically, economically) is to not
           | compete, the head of the AI division acknowledging the above
           | and deciding to focus on the next breakthrough seems
           | absolutely reasonable.
        
             | throw310822 wrote:
             | You really need to be obstinate in your convictions if you
             | can dismiss LLMs at the time when everyone's job is being
             | turned around by them. Everywhere I look, everyone I talk
             | to, is using LLMs more and more to do their job and
             | dramatically increase their productivity. It's one of the
             | most successful technologies I've ever witnessed arriving
             | on the market, and it's only just started- it's just three
             | years old.
        
           | qwertyi0k wrote:
           | To be fair, this was his job description: Fundamental AI
           | Research (FAIR) lab. Not AI products division. You can't
           | expect marketable products from a fundamental AI research
           | lab.
        
             | YetAnotherNick wrote:
             | It's "Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research", not
             | fundamental. So basically involves both fundamental and
             | applied research.
             | 
             | [1]: https://engineering.fb.com/category/ai-research/
        
               | qwertyi0k wrote:
               | Ref: Yann lecun post on linkedin, 3years ago: FAIR now
               | stand for "Fundamental AI Research"
        
           | mapmeld wrote:
           | In an industry of big bets, especially considering the
           | company has poured resources and renamed itself to secure a
           | place in the VR world... staking your reputation on
           | everyone's LLMs having peaked and shifting focus to finding a
           | new path to AI is a pretty interesting bet, no?
        
           | anonnon wrote:
           | This sounds similar to the arc of Carpathy, who also managed
           | to preserve his reputation despite sending Tesla down a FSD
           | deadend and missing the initial LLM boat.
        
         | qwertox wrote:
         | Isn't it more like this: JEPA looks at the video, "a dog walks
         | out of the door, the mailman comes, dog is happy" and the next
         | frame would need to look like "mailman must move to mailbox,
         | dog will run happily towards him", which then an image/video
         | generator would need to render.
         | 
         | Genie looks at the video, "when this group of pixels looks like
         | this and the user presses 'jump', I will render the group
         | different in this way in the next frame."
         | 
         | Genie is an artist drawing a flipbook. To tell you what happens
         | next, it must draw the page. If it doesn't draw it, the story
         | doesn't exist.
         | 
         | JEPA is a novelist writing a summary. To tell you what happens
         | next, it just writes "The car crashes." It doesn't need to
         | describe what the twisted metal looks like to know the crash
         | happened.
        
         | general_reveal wrote:
         | You are beyond correct. World models is what saves their
         | Reality Labs investment. I would say if Reality Labs cannot
         | productize World Models, then that entire project needs to be
         | scrapped.
        
         | slashdave wrote:
         | Failures are not publicly reported, in general. Do you we know
         | what they have invested in?
        
       | anxtyinmgmt wrote:
       | Demis stays cooking
        
       | RivieraKid wrote:
       | This would be really cool if polished and integrated with VR.
        
         | cpeth wrote:
         | Exactly this, it would essentially be a STTNG Holodeck
        
       | ofrzeta wrote:
       | I don't know ... it's impressive and all but the result always
       | looks kind of dead.
        
         | api wrote:
         | It's super cool but I see it as a much more flexible open ended
         | take on the idea of procedurally generated worlds where hard-
         | coded deterministic math and rendering parameters are replaced
         | by prompt-able models.
         | 
         | The deadness you're talking about is there in procedural worlds
         | too, and it stems from the fact that there's not actually much
         | "there." Think of it as a kind of illusion or a magic trick
         | with math. It replicates some of the macro structure of the
         | world but the true information content is low.
         | 
         | Search YouTube for procedural landscape examples. Some of them
         | are actually a lot more visually impressive than this, but
         | without the interactivity. It's a popular topic in the demo
         | scene too where people have made tiny demos (e.g. under 1k in
         | size) that generate impressive scenes.
         | 
         | I expect to see generative AI techniques like this show up in
         | games, though it might take a bit due to their high
         | computational cost compared to traditional procedural
         | generation.
        
         | saberience wrote:
         | This reminds me of the comments by programmers roughly two
         | years ago:
         | 
         | "Sure it can write a single function but the code is terrible
         | when it tries to write a whole class..."
        
           | sfn42 wrote:
           | You say that as if those programmers aren't still right
        
       | phailhaus wrote:
       | I have no idea why Google is wasting their time with this. Trying
       | to hallucinate an entire world is a dead-end. There will never be
       | enough predictability in the output for it to be cohesive in any
       | meaningful way, by design. Why are they not training models to
       | help _write_ games instead? You wouldn 't have to worry about
       | permanence and consistency at all, since they would be enforced
       | by the code, like all games today.
       | 
       | Look at how much prompting it takes to vibe code a prototype. And
       | they want us to think we'll be able to prompt a whole world?
        
         | asim wrote:
         | Take the positive spin. What if you could put in all the inputs
         | and it can simulate real world scenarios you can walk through
         | to benefit mankind e.g disaster scenarios, events, plane
         | crashes, traffic patterns. I mean there's a lot of useful
         | applications for it. I don't like the framing at this time, but
         | I also get where it's going. The engineer in me is drawn to it,
         | but the Muslim in me is very scared to hear anyone talk about
         | creating worlds.... But again I have to separate my view from
         | the reality that this could have very positive real world
         | benefits when you can simulate scenarios. So I could put in a 2
         | pager or 10 page scenario that gets played out or simulated and
         | allow me to walk through it. Not just predictive stuff but
         | let's say things that have happened so I can map crime scenes
         | or anything. In the end this performance art is because they
         | are a product company being Benchmarked by wall street and
         | they'll need customers for the technology but at the same time
         | they probably already have uses for it internally.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | > What if you could put in all the inputs and it can simulate
           | real world scenarios you can walk through to benefit mankind
           | e.g disaster scenarios, events, plane crashes, traffic
           | patterns.
           | 
           | This is only a useful premise if it can do any of those
           | things accurately, as opposed to dreaming up something kinda
           | plausible based on an amalgamation of every vaguely related
           | YouTube video.
        
           | q3k wrote:
           | > What if you could put in all the inputs and it can simulate
           | real world scenarios you can walk through to benefit mankind
           | e.g disaster scenarios, events, plane crashes, traffic
           | patterns.
           | 
           | What's the use? Current scientific models clearly showing
           | natural disasters and how to prevent them are being ignored.
           | Hell, ignoring scientific consensus is a fantastic political
           | platform.
        
         | seedie wrote:
         | Imo they explain pretty well what they are trying to achieve
         | with SIMA and Genie in the Google Deepmind Podcast[1]. They see
         | it as _the_ way to get to AGI by letting AI agents learn for
         | themselves in simulated worlds. Kind of like how they let
         | AlphaGo train for Go in an enormous amount of simulated games.
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/n5x6yXDj0uo
        
           | arionmiles wrote:
           | If that's the goal, the technology for how these agents
           | "learn" would be the most interesting one, even more than the
           | demos in the link.
           | 
           | LLMs can barely remember the coding style I keep asking it to
           | stick to despite numerous prompts, stuffing that guideline
           | into my (whatever is the newest flavour of product-specific
           | markdown file). They keep expanding the context window to
           | work around that problem.
           | 
           | If they have something for long-term learning and growth that
           | can help AI agents, they should be leveraging it for
           | competitive advantage.
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | That makes even less sense, because an AI agent cannot learn
           | effectively from a hallucinated world without internal
           | consistency guarantees. It's an even stronger case for
           | leveraging standard game engines instead.
        
           | hmry wrote:
           | "I need to go to the kitchen, but the door is closed. Easy.
           | I'll turn around and wait for 60 seconds." -AI agent trained
           | in this kind of world
        
         | MillionOClock wrote:
         | An hybrid approach could maybe work, have a more or less
         | standard game engine for coherence and use this kind of
         | generative AI more or less as a short term rendering and
         | physics sim engine.
        
           | elfly wrote:
           | I've thought about this same idea but it probably gets very
           | complicated.
           | 
           | Let's say, you simulate a long museum hallway with some vases
           | in it. Who holds what? The basic game engine has the
           | geometry, but once the player pushes it and moves it, it
           | needs to inform the engine it did, and then to draw the next
           | frame, read from the engine first, update the position in the
           | video feed, then again feed it back to the engine.
           | 
           | What happens if the state diverges. Who wins? If the AI wins
           | then...why have the engine at all?
           | 
           | It is possible but then who controls physics. The engine? or
           | the AI? The AI could have a different understanding of the
           | details of the base. What happens if the vase has water
           | inside? who simulates that? what happens if the AI decides to
           | break the vase? who simulates the AI.
           | 
           | I don't doubt that some sort of scratchpad to keep track of
           | stuff in game would be useful, but I suspect the researchers
           | are expecting the AI to keep track of everything in its own
           | "head" cause that's the most flexible solution.
        
             | MillionOClock wrote:
             | Then maybe the engine should be less about really
             | simulating the 3D world and just trying best to preserve
             | consistency, more about providing memory and saving context
             | for consistency than truly simulating a lot besides higher
             | level concerns (at which point we might wonder if it
             | couldn't be directly part of the model somehow), but
             | writing those lines I realize there would probably still be
             | many edge cases exactly like what you are describing...
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | > Why are they not training models to help write games instead?
         | 
         | Genie isn't about making games... Granted, they for some reason
         | they don't put this at the top. Classic Google, not
         | communicating well...                 | It simulates physics
         | and interactions for dynamic worlds, while its breakthrough
         | consistency enables the simulation of any real-world scenario
         | -- from robotics and modelling animation and fiction, to
         | exploring locations and historical settings.
         | 
         | The key part is simulation. That's what they are building this
         | for. Ignore everything else.
         | 
         | Same with Nvidia's Earth 2 and Cosmos (and a bit like Isaac).
         | Games or VR environments are not the primary drive, the primary
         | drive is training robots (including non-humanoids, such as
         | Waymo) and just getting the data. It's exactly because of this
         | that perfect physics (or let's be honest, realistic
         | physics[0,1]). Getting 50% of the way there in simulation
         | really does cut down the costs of development, even if we
         | recognize that cost steepens as we approach "there". I really
         | wish they didn't call them "world models" or more specifically
         | didn't shove the word "physics" in there, but hey, is it really
         | marketing if they don't claim a golden goose can not only lay
         | actual gold eggs but also diamonds and that its honks cure
         | cancer?
         | 
         | [0] Looking right does not mean it is right. Maybe it'll match
         | your intuition or undergrad general physics classes with
         | calculus but talk to a real physicist if you doubt me here.
         | Even one with just an undergrad will tell you this physics is
         | unrealistic and any one worth their salt will tell you how
         | unintuitive physics ends up being as you get realistic, even
         | well before approaching quantum. Go talk to the HPC folks and
         | ask them why they need superocmputers... Sorry, physics can't
         | be done from observation alone.
         | 
         | [1] Seriously, I mean look at their demo page. It really is
         | impressive, don't get me wrong, but I can't find a single video
         | that doesn't have major physics problems. That "A high-altitude
         | open world featuring deformable snow terrain." looks like it is
         | simulating Legolas[2], not a real person. The work is
         | impressive, but it isn't anywhere near realistic
         | https://deepmind.google/models/genie/
         | 
         | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ZYzbKaVyQ
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | But it's not simulating, is it? It's hallucinating videos
           | with an input channel to guide what the video looks like. Why
           | do that instead of just picking Unreal, Unity, etc and having
           | it _actually_ simulated for a fraction of the effort?
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | Why is it a dead end, you don't meaningfully explain that.
         | These models look like you can interact with them and they seem
         | to replicate physics models.
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | They don't though, they're hallucinated videos. They're
           | feeding models tons and tons of 2D videos and hoping they
           | figure out physics from them, instead of just using a game
           | engine and having the LLM write something up that works 100%
           | of the time.
        
         | jimmar wrote:
         | As a kid in the early 1980s, I spent a lot of time
         | experimenting with computers by playing basic games and drawing
         | with crude applications. And it was fun. I would have loved to
         | have something like Google's Genie to play with. Even if it
         | never evolved, the product in the demos looks good enough for
         | people to get value from.
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | It's been very profitable for drug dealers for centuries, who
         | wouldn't want a piece of that market?
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | Because games already exist, and it would be easier for LLMs
           | to write games rather than hallucinate videos.
        
         | whalee wrote:
         | This was a common argument against LLMs, that the space of
         | possible next tokens is so vast that eventually a long enough
         | sequence will necessarily decay into nonsense, or at least that
         | compounding error will have the same effect.
         | 
         | Problem is, that's not what we've observed to happen as these
         | models get better. In reality there is some metaphysical
         | coarse-grained substrate of physics/semantics/whatever[1] which
         | these models can apparently construct for themselves in pursuit
         | of ~whatever~ goal they're after.
         | 
         | The initially stated position, and your position: "trying to
         | hallucinate an entire world is a dead-end", is a sort of
         | maximally-pessimistic 'the universe is maximally-irreducible'
         | claim.
         | 
         | The truth is much much more complicated.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.arxiv.org/abs/2512.03750
        
           | post-it wrote:
           | And going back a little further, it was thought that
           | backpropagation would be impractical, and trying to train
           | neural networks was a dead end. Then people tried it and it
           | worked just fine.
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | > Problem is, that's not what we've observed to happen as
           | these models get better
           | 
           | Eh? Context rot is extremely well known. The longer you let
           | the context grow, the worse LLMs perform. Many coding agents
           | will pre-emptively compact the context or force you to start
           | a new session altogether because of this. For Genie to create
           | a consistent world, it needs to maintain context of
           | _everything_ , _forever_. No matter how good it gets, there
           | will always be a limit. This is not a problem if you use a
           | game engine and code it up instead.
        
       | ollin wrote:
       | Really great to see this released! Some interesting videos from
       | early-access users:
       | 
       | - https://youtu.be/15KtGNgpVnE?si=rgQ0PSRniRGcvN31&t=197 walking
       | through various cities
       | 
       | - https://x.com/fofrAI/status/2016936855607136506 helicopter /
       | flight sim
       | 
       | - https://x.com/venturetwins/status/2016919922727850333 space
       | station, https://x.com/venturetwins/status/2016920340602278368
       | Dunkin' Donuts
       | 
       | - https://youtu.be/lALGud1Ynhc?si=10ERYyMFHiwL8rQ7&t=207
       | simulating a laptop computer, moving the mouse
       | 
       | - https://x.com/emollick/status/2016919989865840906 otter airline
       | pilot with a duck on its head walking through a Rothko inspired
       | airport
        
         | RaftPeople wrote:
         | I liked that first one and I hope someone creates one of going
         | back to dinosaur age, i want to see that.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | Tim is awesome.
           | 
           | Ironically, he covered PixVerse's world model last week and
           | it came close to your ask:
           | https://youtu.be/SAjKSRRJstQ?si=dqybCnaPvMmhpOnV&t=371
           | 
           | (Earlier in the video it shows him live prompting.)
           | 
           | World models are popping up everywhere, from almost every
           | frontier lab.
        
           | post-it wrote:
           | One step closer to the science-based dinosaur MMO we were
           | promised.
        
         | Valk3_ wrote:
         | Any thoughts about Project Genie?
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Damn that was crazy the picture of the tabletop setup/cardboard
       | robot and it becomes 3D interactive.
        
       | WarmWash wrote:
       | The actual breakthrough with Genie is being able to turn around
       | and look back, and seeing the same scene that was there before. A
       | few other labs have similar world simulators, but they all
       | struggle badly with keeping coherence of things not in view.
       | Hence why they always walk forwards and never look around.
        
         | sfn42 wrote:
         | And what if I go somewhere then go back there a week later?
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | Best they can do is 60 seconds, for now at least.
        
             | autonomousErwin wrote:
             | Makes you wonder what the TTL caching for our universe is.
        
               | dabbz wrote:
               | Whatever the speed of light is I would imagine
        
         | nozbufferHere wrote:
         | Still amazed it took ML people so long to realize they needed
         | and explicit representation to cache stuff.
        
           | Legend2440 wrote:
           | Genie does not use an explicit representation:
           | 
           | >Genie 3's consistency is an emergent capability. Other
           | methods such as NeRFs and Gaussian Splatting also allow
           | consistent navigable 3D environments, but depend on the
           | provision of an explicit 3D representation. By contrast,
           | worlds generated by Genie 3 are far more dynamic and rich
           | because they're created frame by frame based on the world
           | description and actions by the user.
        
           | emmettm wrote:
           | The representation is learned. Also, see Sutter's "Bitter
           | Lesson" essay
        
         | abraxas wrote:
         | What about Fei Fei Li's lab? I think they are generating true
         | 3D worlds rather than frames of a video?
         | 
         | Although that probably precludes her from having animations in
         | those worlds...
        
       | moohaad wrote:
       | everyone will make his own game now
        
       | JaiRathore wrote:
       | I now believe we live in a simulation
        
         | moomoo11 wrote:
         | clearly
        
       | cloudflare728 wrote:
       | We will probably see Ready Player One in a few decades. Hoping to
       | stay alive till then.
        
         | HardCodedBias wrote:
         | Decades?
         | 
         | I mean, yes, the probability of having that level of tech in
         | decades is quite high.
         | 
         | But the technology is moving very fast right now. It sounds
         | crazy, but I think that there is a 50% chance of having ready
         | player one level technology before 2030.
         | 
         | It's absolutely possible it will take more time to become
         | economical.
        
         | lexandstuff wrote:
         | The mass-poverty and climate changed ravaged world parts, I
         | could definitely see.
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | The more of this I see the more I want to spend time away from
       | screens and doing those things I love to do in the real world.
        
         | MillionOClock wrote:
         | I love AI but I also hope it will paradoxically make people
         | realize the value of real life experiences and human
         | relationships.
        
           | avaer wrote:
           | Or maybe it will just make people realize the value of fake
           | life experiences and human relationships.
        
             | boogrpants wrote:
             | The American public is no different than an American
             | corporation; trying to extract as much allegiance and
             | loyalty as possible for as little compensation as possible.
             | 
             | Your neighbors in the street protesting for comprehensive
             | single payer healthcare? Yeah they're perfectly fine
             | leaving your existence up to "market forces".
             | 
             | Copy-paste office workers everywhere reciting memorized
             | platitudes and compliance demands.
             | 
             | You're telling me I could interact even _less_ with such
             | selfish (and often useless given their limited real
             | skillset) people? Deal.
             | 
             | America needs to rethink the compensation package if it
             | wants to survive as a socio-political meme. Happy to call
             | myself Canadian or Chinese if their offer is better. No
             | bullets needed.
        
               | jplusequalt wrote:
               | >I think we'll eventually get to the point where these
               | are real time and have consistent representations
               | 
               | You have a dangerously low opinion of your fellow man,
               | and while I sympathize with your frustration, I would
               | humbly suggest you direct that anger at owners of
               | companies/politicians, rather than aim it at your
               | everyday citizen.
        
               | boogrpants wrote:
               | Your suggestion is meaningless semantic differentiation.
               | 
               | Those owners and politicians are the result of exposure
               | to American communities, schools, other institutions;
               | they do not spontaneously exist.
               | 
               | Americans prop up the system as such Americans will defer
               | or their faith was misplaced to begin with. And that
               | ain't right; they're America! So the awfulness will
               | continue until moral improves!
               | 
               | Atheist semantics while living theist like devotion to
               | civil religion memes.
        
               | switchbak wrote:
               | Maybe some folks (ahem) disappearing into virtual worlds
               | is a good thing for those left behind.
        
           | koolala wrote:
           | It is only detaching people from reality more. The internet
           | used to be a window into the outside world and now AI is
           | making it counterfeit manipulated fantasy.
        
           | Sol- wrote:
           | Dunno, I want to agree, but at the same time it's spoken like
           | someone to whom these experiences and human relationship come
           | easily. There are many people out there who, for some reason
           | (anxiety, etc.), cannot easily access this part of the human
           | condition, unfortunately.
           | 
           | Perhaps better to roam a virtual reality than be starved in
           | the real world.
        
         | adventured wrote:
         | Most people don't have access to anything particularly nice in
         | the real world.
         | 
         | It's reality privilege. Most of humanity will yearn for the
         | worlds that AI will cook up for them, customized to their
         | whims.
        
           | jplusequalt wrote:
           | >Most people don't have access to anything particularly nice
           | in the real world.
           | 
           | What data/metric are you drawing from to arrive at this
           | conclusion? How could you even realistically make such a
           | statement?
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | The more I see of this, the faster I want it to go!
         | 
         | I'm developing filmmaking tools with World Labs' Marble world
         | model:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCJYdGdpHg
         | 
         | https://github.com/storytold/artcraft
         | 
         | I think we'll eventually get to the point where these are real
         | time and have consistent representations. I've been excited
         | about world models since I saw the in-the-browser Pokemon demo:
         | 
         | https://madebyoll.in/posts/game_emulation_via_dnn/demo/
         | 
         | At some point, we'll have the creative Holodeck. If you've seen
         | what single improv performers can do with AI, it's ridiculously
         | cool. I can imagine watching entertainers in the future that
         | summon and create entire worlds before us:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYH3FIFH55s
         | 
         | (If you haven't seen CodeMiko, she's an incredibly talented
         | engineer and streamer. She develops mocap + AI streams.)
        
           | jplusequalt wrote:
           | >I think we'll eventually get to the point where these are
           | real time and have consistent representations
           | 
           | Just like how people in the 50s thought we would have flying
           | cars and nuclear fusion by 2000.
        
         | TacoCommander wrote:
         | After a lifetime career in tech, I want to turn it all off.
        
           | switchbak wrote:
           | Seriously though. These cute distractions have turned into
           | world and culture eating monsters.
        
             | shimman wrote:
             | Can't wait to see this being abused to show that "the
             | prisoners were treated humanely" or that "there are no
             | protests in the capital." At what point to we hold
             | engineers responsible for creating these machines? How many
             | must suffer because no one was willing to say no?
        
         | moomoo11 wrote:
         | I think this would be good for the people living in
         | overcrowded, polluted and dirty cities in the world (let's be
         | honest, they actually exist regardless of how that happened or
         | why).
         | 
         | Maybe they can unplug from 500+ AQI pollution and spend time
         | with their loved ones and friends in a simulated clean world?
         | 
         | Imagine working for 10-12 hours a day, and you come home to a
         | pod (and a building could house thousands of pods, paid for by
         | the company) where you plug in and relax for a few hours. Maybe
         | a few more decades of breakthroughs can lead to simulated sleep
         | as well so they get a full rest.
         | 
         | Wake up, head to the factory to make whatever the developed
         | world needs.
         | 
         | (holy fuck that is a horrible existence but you know some
         | people would LOVE for that to be real)
        
           | jplusequalt wrote:
           | There are posters in this very thread chain who want this
           | reality to come to pass.
        
             | moomoo11 wrote:
             | I mean if I'm totally honest, it could be beneficial to me
             | if something like this comes to be. Even in the developed
             | world, we have a bunch of annoying people who complain/cry
             | constantly about dumb things. They do that instead of doing
             | something, whereas I can excuse the people trapped in
             | hellholes overseas because it really isn't their fault they
             | were oppressed and mistreated.
             | 
             | They'd have their own economy and "life" and leave the rest
             | of us alone. It would be completely transactional, so I'd
             | have zero reason to feel bad if they do it voluntarily.
             | 
             | If they can be happy in a simulated world, and others can
             | be happy in the real world, then everyone wins!
        
           | switchbak wrote:
           | Hook it up to an always-on fle*light, and I'm sure you'd have
           | millions of paying customers.
           | 
           | Except you'll never have to leave your pod. Extract the $$
           | from their attention all day, then sell them manufactured
           | virtual happiness all night. It's just a more streamlined
           | version of how many people live right now.
           | 
           | I'll be running away from that hellscape, thanks.
        
           | trenning wrote:
           | Sounds similar to the black mirror ep
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits
        
         | slashdave wrote:
         | Huh, yeah, the sky is blue outside and the sun is shining.
         | 
         | Although, I am feeling a bit lazy so let me see if I can
         | simulate a walk.
        
         | alex_c wrote:
         | Ironically, this brings us one step closer to believing the
         | simulation hypothesis might be true... In which case, maybe
         | there is no real world anyway ;)
        
       | in-silico wrote:
       | Everyone here seems too caught up in the idea that Genie is the
       | product, and that its purpose is to be a video game, movie, or VR
       | environment.
       | 
       | That is not the goal.
       | 
       | The purpose of world models like Genie is to be the "imagination"
       | of next-generation AI and robotics systems: a way for them to
       | simulate the outcomes of potential actions in order to inform
       | decisions.
        
         | avaer wrote:
         | Soft disagree; if you wanted imagination you don't need to make
         | a video model. You probably don't need to decode the latents at
         | all. That seems pretty far from information-theoretic
         | optimality, the kind that you want in a good+fast AI model
         | making decisions.
         | 
         | The whole _reason_ for LLMs inferencing human-processable text,
         | and  "world models" inferencing human-interactive video, is
         | precisely so that humans can connect in and debug the thing.
         | 
         | I think the purpose of Genie _is_ to be a video game, but it 's
         | a video game for AI researchers developing AIs.
         | 
         | I do agree that the entertainment implications are kind of the
         | research exhaust of the end goal.
        
           | in-silico wrote:
           | Sufficiently informative latents _can_ be decoded into video.
           | 
           | When you simulate a stream of those latents, you _can_ decode
           | them into video.
           | 
           | If you were trying to make an impressive demo for the public,
           | you probably _would_ decode them into video, even if the real
           | applications don 't require it.
           | 
           | Converting the latents to pixel space also makes them
           | compatible with existing image/video models and multimodal
           | LLMs, which (without specialized training) can't interpret
           | the latents directly.
        
           | SequoiaHope wrote:
           | Didn't the original world models paper do some training in
           | latent space? (Edit: yes[1])
           | 
           | I think robots imagining the next step (in latent space) will
           | be useful. It's useful for people. A great way to validate
           | that a robot is properly imagining the future is to make that
           | latent space renderable in pixels.
           | 
           | [1] "By using features extracted from the world model as
           | inputs to an agent, we can train a very compact and simple
           | policy that can solve the required task. We can even train
           | our agent entirely inside of its own hallucinated dream
           | generated by its world model, and transfer this policy back
           | into the actual environment."
           | 
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.10122
        
           | NitpickLawyer wrote:
           | > I think the purpose of Genie is to be a video game, but
           | it's a video game for AI researchers developing AIs.
           | 
           | Yeah, I think this is what the person above was saying as
           | well. This is what people at google have said already (a few
           | podcasts on gdm's channel, hosted by Hannah Fry). They have
           | their "agents" play in genie-powered environments. So one
           | system "creates" the environment for the task. Say "place the
           | ball in the basket". Genie creates an env with a ball and a
           | basket, and the other agent learns to wasd its way around,
           | pick up the ball and wasd to the basket, and so on. Pretty
           | powerful combo if you have enough compute to throw at it.
        
           | koolala wrote:
           | What model do you need then? If you want 3D real-time
           | understanding of how realities work? Are you focusing on
           | "imagination" in a different abstract way?
        
           | thegabriele wrote:
           | Sure, but at some point you want humans in the loop i guess?
        
           | thegabriele wrote:
           | Sure, but at some point you want humans in the loop i guess?
        
           | ACCount37 wrote:
           | If you train a video model, you by necessity train a world
           | model for 3D worlds. Which can then be reused in robotics,
           | potentially.
           | 
           | I do wonder if I can frankenstein together a passable VLA
           | using pretrained LTX-2 as a base.
        
           | empath75 wrote:
           | I am not sure we are at the "efficiency" phase of this.
           | 
           | Even if you just wire this output (or probably multiples
           | running different counterfactuals) into a multimodal LLM that
           | interprets the video and uses it to make decisions, you have
           | something new.
        
           | abraxas wrote:
           | > if you wanted imagination you don't need to make a video
           | model. You probably don't need to decode the latents at all.
           | 
           | Soft disagree. What is the purpose of that imagination if not
           | to map it to actual real world outfcomes. For this to compare
           | them to the real world and possibly backpropagate through
           | them you'll need video frames.
        
           | sailingparrot wrote:
           | > you don't need to make a video model. You probably don't
           | need to decode the latents at all.
           | 
           | If you don't decode, how do you judge quality in a world
           | where generative metrics are famously very hard and
           | imprecise? How do you go about integrating RLHF/RLAF in your
           | pipeline if you don't decode, which is not something you can
           | skip anymore to get SotA?
           | 
           | Just look at the companies that are explicitly aiming for
           | robotics/simulation, they *are* doing video models.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | That's part of it but if you could actually pull out 3D models
         | from these worlds, it would massively speed up game
         | development.
        
           | avaer wrote:
           | You already can, check out Marble/World Labs, Meshy, and
           | others.
           | 
           | It's not really as much of a boon as you'd think though,
           | since throwing together a 3D model is not the bottleneck to
           | making a sellable video game. You've had model marketplaces
           | for a long time now.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | > It's not really as much of a boon as you'd think though
             | 
             | It is for filmmaking! They're perfect for constructing
             | consistent sets and blocking out how your actors and props
             | are positioned. You can freely position the camera, control
             | the depth of field, and then storyboard your entire scene
             | I2V.
             | 
             | Example of doing this with Marble:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCJYdGdpHg
        
               | avaer wrote:
               | This I definitely agree with, before you had to massage
               | the I2I and now you can just drag the camera.
               | 
               | Marble definitely changes the game if the game is "move
               | the camera", just most people would not consider that a
               | game (but hey there's probably a good game idea in
               | there!)
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's just one angle. Please don't bin that
         | as the only use case for "world models"!
         | 
         | First of all, there are a variety of different types of world
         | models. Simulation, video, static asset, etc. It's a loaded
         | term, just as the use cases are widespread.
         | 
         | There are world models you can play in your browser inferred
         | entirely by your CPU:
         | 
         | https://madebyoll.in/posts/game_emulation_via_dnn/ (my
         | favorite, from 2022!)
         | 
         | https://madebyoll.in/posts/world_emulation_via_dnn/ (updated,
         | in 3D)
         | 
         | There are static asset generating world models, like WorldLabs'
         | Marble. These are useful for video games, previz, and
         | filmmaking.
         | 
         | https://marble.worldlabs.ai/
         | 
         | I wrote open source software to leverage marble for filmmaking
         | (I'm a filmmaker, and this tech is extremely useful for scene
         | consistency):
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCJYdGdpHg
         | 
         | https://github.com/storytold/artcraft
         | 
         | There are playable video-oriented models, many of which are
         | open source and will run on your 3080 and above:
         | 
         | https://diamond-wm.github.io/
         | 
         | https://github.com/Robbyant/lingbot-world
         | 
         | There are things termed "world models" that really shouldn't
         | be:
         | 
         | https://github.com/Tencent-Hunyuan/HunyuanWorld-1.0
         | 
         | There are robotics training oriented world models:
         | 
         | https://github.com/leggedrobotics/robotic_world_model
         | 
         | Genie is not strictly robotics-oriented.
        
           | in-silico wrote:
           | The entertainment industry, as big as it is, just doesn't
           | have as much profit potential as robots and AI agents that
           | can replace human labor. Just look at how Nvidia has pivoted
           | from gaming and rendering to AI.
           | 
           | The other examples you've given are neat, but for players
           | like Google they are mostly an afterthought.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | Robotics: $88B TAM
             | 
             | Gaming: $350B TAM
             | 
             | All media and entertainment: $3T TAM
             | 
             | Manufacturing: $5T TAM
             | 
             | Roughly the same story.
             | 
             | This tech is going to revolutionize "films" and gaming. The
             | entire entertainment industry is going to transform around
             | it.
             | 
             | When people aren't buying physical things, they're
             | distracting themselves with media. Humans spend more time
             | and money on that than anything else. Machines or
             | otherwise.
             | 
             | AI impact on manufacturing will be huge. AI impact on media
             | and entertainment will be huge. And these world models can
             | be developed in a way that you develop exposure and
             | competency for both domains.
             | 
             | edit: You can argue that manufacturing will boom when we
             | have robotics that generalize. But you can also argue that
             | entertainment will boom when we have holodecks people can
             | step into.
        
               | in-silico wrote:
               | The _current_ robotics industry is $88B. You have to take
               | into account the potential _future_ industry of general
               | purpose robots that replace a big chunk of blue-collar
               | work.
               | 
               | Robots is also just one example. A hypothetically
               | powerful AI agent (which might also use a world model)
               | that controls a mouse and keyboard could replace a big
               | chunk of white-collar work too.
               | 
               | Those are worth 10's of trillions of dollars. You can
               | argue about whether they are actually possible, but the
               | people backing this tech think they are.
        
         | benlivengood wrote:
         | Agreed; everyone complained that LLMs have no world model, so
         | here we go. Next logical step is to backfill the weights with
         | encoded video from the real world at some reasonable frame rate
         | to ground the imagination and then branch the inference on
         | possible interventions (actions) in the near future of the
         | simulation, throw the results into a goal evaluator and then
         | send the winning action-predictions to motors. Getting timing
         | right will probably require a bit more work than literally
         | gluing them together, but probably not much more.
        
         | reactordev wrote:
         | Still cool though...
        
           | hatmanstack wrote:
           | this.
        
         | slashdave wrote:
         | This is a video model, not a world model. Start learning on
         | this, and cascading errors will inevitably creep into all
         | downstream products.
         | 
         | You cannot invent data.
        
           | 2bitencryption wrote:
           | Given that the video is fully interactive and lets you move
           | around (in a "world" if you will) I don't think it's a
           | stretch to call it a world model. It must have at least some
           | notion of physics, cause and effect, etc etc in order to
           | achieve what it does.
        
             | slashdave wrote:
             | No, it actually needs none of that.
        
           | whytaka wrote:
           | They have a feature where you can take a photo and create a
           | world from that.
           | 
           | If instead of a photo you have a video feed, this is one step
           | closer to implementing subjective experience.
        
           | kingstnap wrote:
           | Related: https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.03220
           | 
           | This is a paper that recently got popular ish and discusses
           | the counter to your viewpoint.
           | 
           | > Paradox 1: Information cannot be increased by deterministic
           | processes. For both Shannon entropy and Kolmogorov
           | complexity, deterministic transformations cannot meaningfully
           | increase the information content of an object. And yet, we
           | use pseudorandom number generators to produce randomness,
           | synthetic data improves model capabilities, mathematicians
           | can derive new knowledge by reasoning from axioms without
           | external information, dynamical systems produce emergent
           | phenomena, and self-play loops like AlphaZero learn
           | sophisticated strategies from games
           | 
           | In theory yes, something like the rules of chess should be
           | enough for these mythical perfect reasoners that show up in
           | math riddles to deduce everything that *can* be known about
           | the game. And similarly a math textbook is no more
           | interesting than a book with the words true and false and a
           | bunch of true => true statements in it.
           | 
           | But I don't think this is the case in practice. There is
           | something about rolling things out and leveraging the results
           | you see that seems to have useful information in it even if
           | the roll out is fully characterizable.
        
             | slashdave wrote:
             | Interesting paper, thanks! But, the authors escape the
             | three paradoxes they present by introducing training limits
             | (compute, factorization, distribution). Kind of a different
             | problem here.
             | 
             | What I object to are the "scaling maximalists" who believe
             | that if enough training data were available, that
             | complicated concepts like a world model will just
             | spontaneously emerge during training. To then pile on
             | synthetic data from a general-purpose generative model as a
             | solution to the lack of training data becomes even more
             | untenable.
        
         | pizzafeelsright wrote:
         | Environment mapping to AI generated alternative outcomes is the
         | holodeck.
         | 
         | I prefer real danger as living in the simulation is derivative.
        
         | whytaka wrote:
         | I think this is the key component of developing subjective
         | experience.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | Like LLMs, though: Do you really think a simulation will get
         | them to all the corner cases robots/AI needs to know about, or
         | will it be largely the same problem -- they'll be just good
         | enough to fool the engineers and make the business ops drool
         | and they'll be put into production and suddenly we'll see in a
         | year or two stories about robots crushing peoples hands,
         | stepping in drains and falling over or falling off roofs cause
         | of some bizarre miscommunication between training and reality.
         | 
         | So, like, it's very important to understand the lineage of
         | training and not just the "this is it"
        
         | oceanplexian wrote:
         | Yeah and the goal of Instagram was to share quirky pictures you
         | took with your friends. Now it's a platform for influencers and
         | brainrot; arguably it has done more damage than drugs to
         | younger generations.
         | 
         | As soon as this thing is hooked up to VR and reaches a tipping
         | point with the general public we all know exactly what is going
         | to happen. The creation of the most profitable, addictive and
         | ultimately dystopian technology Big Tech has ever come up with.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | The good news is we'll finally have an answer for the Fermi
           | Paradox.
        
       | analog8374 wrote:
       | If creating an infinite world is so trivially easy (relatively
       | speaking) then occam suggests that this world is generated.
        
         | avaer wrote:
         | I don't know if that's the simplest explanation, considering
         | how insanely complex the generation is (these world models
         | might literally be the most complex things to ever be created).
         | 
         | But I do think it's a partial existence proof.
        
           | analog8374 wrote:
           | One big simplifier is to only render what you're looking at.
           | I wonder how one might demonstrate that.
        
       | adventured wrote:
       | This is as good of a place to mark it as any.
       | 
       | Humanity goes into the box and it never comes back out. It's
       | better _in there_ than it is _out there_ for 99% of the
       | population.
        
       | speak_on wrote:
       | Compared to DeepMind's Genie 3 demo, this appears to have more
       | morphing issues and less user interactivity with environmental
       | consistency. Is this a stripped down version?
        
       | binsquare wrote:
       | It's ability to simulate physics intact is actually a huge
       | breakthrough.
       | 
       | I can't even fathom what it would be like for the future of
       | simulation and physical world when it gets far more accurate and
       | realistic.
        
         | Bjorkbat wrote:
         | Ironically the physics are kind of my biggest criticism. They
         | call these "world models", but I think it's more accurate to
         | call them "video game models" because they employ "video game
         | physics" rather than real world physics, among other things
         | 
         | This is most evident in the way things collide.
        
           | binsquare wrote:
           | It's getting better staggeringly fast, just a year ago I
           | wouldn't expect it to be at even video game physics level so
           | quickly.
           | 
           | If there is a possibility where it continue to improve at a
           | similar rate with llms. A way to simulate fluid dynamics or
           | structural dynamics with reasonable accuracy and speed can
           | unlock much faster pace of innovation in the physical world.
           | (And validated with rigorous scientific methods)
        
       | gambiting wrote:
       | >>How we're building responsibly
       | 
       | How are you justifying the enormous energy cost this toy is
       | using, exactly?
       | 
       | I don't find anything "responsible" about this. And it doesn't
       | even seem like something that has any actual use - it's literally
       | just a toy.
        
       | bpiche wrote:
       | This is the plot of The Peripheral, right? Love the way the
       | second half of that book turned out. Never finished Agency..
        
       | mupuff1234 wrote:
       | If only Google had the technology for game streaming... Oh wait
       | 
       | RIP Stadia.
        
         | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
         | Stadia was lightyears ahead, but pro-Microsoft media
         | assassinated it with FUD
         | 
         | While "journalists" were busy bootlicking a laggy 720p Android
         | only xCloud beta, Stadia was already delivering flawless
         | 4K@60FPS in a web browser
         | 
         | They killed the only platform that actually worked just to
         | protect Microsoft
         | 
         | This will be a textbook case study in how a legacy monopoly
         | kills innovation to protect its own mediocrity
         | 
         | Microsoft won't survive the century, they are a dinosaur on
         | borrowed time that has already lost the war in mobile, AI, and
         | robotics
         | 
         | They don't create,, they just buy marrket share to suffocate
         | the competition and ruin every product they touch
         | 
         | Even their cloud dominance is about to end, as they are already
         | losing their grip on the European market to antitrust and
         | sovereign alternatives
        
       | dominick-cc wrote:
       | Finally all my anime figurines will come to life
        
       | bigblind wrote:
       | Anyone else going to try it and just keep getting a 404 page?
        
       | artisin wrote:
       | Best case, Google DeepMind cracks AGI by letting agents learn for
       | themselves inside simulated worlds. Worst case, they've invented
       | the greatest, most expensive screensaver generator in human
       | history.
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | This is what we were building in 2018 with Ayvri, starting from
       | 3d tiles with the aim of building a real-world view by using AI
       | to essentailly re-paint and add detail to what was essentially a
       | high-resolution and faster loading Google Earth (for outside
       | cities, we didn't have building data).
       | 
       | We saw a very diverse group of users, the common uses was
       | paragliders, gliders, and pilots who wanted to view their or
       | other peoples flights. Ultramarathons, mountain bike and some
       | road-races where it provided an interactive way to visualize the
       | course from any angle and distance. Transportation infrastructure
       | to display train routes to be built. The list goes on.
        
       | jlhawn wrote:
       | Now I can't stop thinking about _The Experience Machine_ by Andy
       | Clark. It theorizes that this is how humans navigate and
       | experience the real world: Our brains generate what we think the
       | world around is like and our senses don't so much directly
       | process visual information but instead act like a kind of loss
       | function for our internal simulations. Then we use that error to
       | update our internal model of the world.
       | 
       | In this view, we are essentially living inside a high-fidelity
       | generative model. Our brains are constantly 'hallucinating' a
       | predicted reality based on past experience and current goals. The
       | data from our senses isn't the source of the image; it's the
       | error signal used to calibrate that internal model. Much like
       | Genie 3 uses latent actions and frames to predict the next state
       | of a world, our brains use 'Active Inference' to minimize the gap
       | between what we expect and what we experience.
       | 
       | It suggests that our sense of 'reality' isn't a direct recording
       | of the world, but a highly optimized, interactive simulation that
       | is continuously 'regularized' by the photons hitting our retinas.
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | A kurzgesagt on this: Why Your Brain Blinds You For 2 Hours
         | Every Day https://youtu.be/wo_e0EvEZn8 and the sources for that
         | video - https://sites.google.com/view/sources-reality-is-not-
         | real/
        
       | sebasv_ wrote:
       | I am stumped. Am I misreading, or are the folks at Google
       | deliberately confounding two interpretations of "world model"?
       | Dont get me wrong, this is really cool, and it will undoubtedly
       | have its use. But what I am seeing is an LLM that can generate
       | textures to be fed into a human-coded 3d engine (the "world
       | model" that is demonstrated), and I fail to see how that brings
       | us closer to AGI. For AGI we need "world models" as in "belief
       | systems". The AI model must be able to reason about (learned)
       | dynamics, which I dont see reflected in the text or video.
        
         | littlekey wrote:
         | >an LLM that can generate textures to be fed into a human-coded
         | 3d engine
         | 
         | I'm not certain but I think the LLM is also generating the
         | physics itself. It's generating rules based on its training
         | data, e.g. watch a cat walk enough and you can simulate how the
         | cat moves in the generated "world".
        
       | artur_makly wrote:
       | let's reboot Leisure Suit Larry ;-)
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Are world models from the perspective of an observer in the world
       | or zoomed out?
       | 
       | Or in gaming terms do these models think FPS or RTS?
       | 
       | Text models and pixel grid vision models is easy but struggling
       | to wrap my head around what world model "sees" so to speak.
        
       | almosthere wrote:
       | So what is it doing in the real world, microwaving an elephant on
       | high with 80kw every second and pouring out all the water in an
       | sub-saharan African well every 4 minutes?
        
       | user_hn_827 wrote:
       | This is a fascinating project. The idea of infinite interactive
       | worlds is a huge leap for gaming and simulation.
        
       | spullara wrote:
       | has the person who designed the movement control ever played a
       | video game?
        
       | throwaway314155 wrote:
       | The "How we're building responsibly" section has nothing to do
       | with acting responsibly. It should be called "Limitations"
       | instead. Section reads LLM generated honestly.
        
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