[HN Gopher] House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using I...
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       House of Lords Votes to Ban UK Children from Using Internet VPNs
        
       Author : donpott
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2026-01-26 18:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ispreview.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ispreview.co.uk)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46763548
        
       | supernes wrote:
       | Papers, please. Glory to Arstotzka!
        
       | retired wrote:
       | Does that mean that VPN providers now need identification before
       | you can open an account?
        
         | ASalazarMX wrote:
         | But think of the children!
         | 
         | That it has its own Wikipedia page is a sign of the abuse of
         | this argument:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
        
         | victor9000 wrote:
         | This is the real intent
        
         | krisbolton wrote:
         | No. This a motion within one house of Parliament and hasn't
         | become law, nor is there any guarantee it will be. It's
         | something to be aware of.
        
         | armada651 wrote:
         | If this becomes law, then yes. But then people will turn to VPS
         | providers instead and set up their own VPNs, which will then
         | prompt a law to demand age verification before renting any
         | server. I wonder how far they're willing to go down this rabbit
         | hole.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Not necessarily - how is a kid paying for a VPS server?
           | 
           | A personal debit card (which requires ID verification anyway,
           | and likely has their parents able to see activity)? A
           | personal credit card (which definitely requires ID + 18+)?
           | Stealing their parents' card (works for like 5 days)? Does
           | the VPS company block VPN ports without verification, similar
           | to how most companies handle email? Do you think VPS services
           | have any interest, at all, in an underage clientele?
           | 
           | The proposed law is plenty effective - saying otherwise is
           | like saying kids can bypass age verification at the knife
           | shop or alcohol store by using eBay. No sane mind says that
           | age verification is therefore useless.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | If having a credit card and the ability to make purchases
             | was good enough as an ID system, they could have simply
             | made it the law instead of requiring tech companies to
             | collect those sweet, sweet personal ID document photos.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | The UK law doesn't say you have to use ID photos, that's
               | porn companies knowing that charging even PS1 a visit
               | would be devastating to the business. Credit card
               | verification is a completely legal method in the UK.
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | They can check for credit cards without requiring any
               | payment. Are you sure that's sufficient given these
               | vaguely worded laws? If so many HN readers could solve
               | the whole problem by making websites which issued digital
               | signatures of random numbers to anyone who can support a
               | PS0.01 debit which is then immediately reversed.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | The problem is porn companies know full well nobody,
               | nobody, wants that on their credit card statement. Kinda
               | weird that something supposedly as natural as rain needs
               | such levels of privacy; the hypocrisy is notable (if it's
               | so natural and so many people do it, own it).
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | They can have whatshisface's digital certificates, Inc.
               | on their statements.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | authorizations don't show up on statements, but still
               | allow you to verify the card is valid
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | Authorizations may not show on statements; but they are
               | full well in financial records which could come up in
               | court or a divorce claim later. Credit card companies are
               | absolutely not allowed to turn a blind eye to any kind of
               | usage.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >but they are full well in financial records which could
               | come up in court or a divorce claim later
               | 
               | Does this even matter in the age of no-fault divorces? Is
               | any court going to sanction a spouse for having watched
               | porn?
        
               | sublinear wrote:
               | Single people don't care, and they are becoming the
               | majority of adults and probably more likely consume porn
               | too.
        
               | technion wrote:
               | I have always wondered how this would go if you applied
               | for a loan through your bank. Or a rental that wanted
               | 'last three months financial transactions' in the
               | application.
        
               | sublinear wrote:
               | I'm confused by what you mean (I'm an American though).
               | 
               | I don't think I'm unique for putting miscellaneous stuff
               | like this on a credit card, and not even necessarily the
               | one my bank offers. Not to hide the transaction, but
               | because charging to debit/checking would make tracking my
               | monthly expenses less straightforward. Payments online
               | are also safer on credit in case a chargeback is
               | required.
               | 
               | Also, are you sure you don't mean "proof of employment"
               | showing the last three months of direct deposits? I've
               | never heard of anyone asking for any other transactions.
               | Similarly, pretty sure loan applications are based on
               | credit reports. Transactions aren't relevant unless they
               | got flagged for something so bad they showed up in the
               | credit report (fraud, missed/late payments, etc).
        
               | iamnothere wrote:
               | I once rented a place where you needed either a decent
               | credit rating or three months of full bank statements to
               | prove income. (Paycheck stubs were not deemed
               | sufficient.) Very invasive, fortunately I passed the
               | requirements and didn't need to provide that info.
        
           | landl0rd wrote:
           | You're implying pervasive KYC and tying everything to your
           | real-life identity is some unfortunate side-effect rather
           | than a deliberate end. I have contempt for people who pass
           | policies such as these but I do not think them foolish; they
           | are likely aware of what will happen.
        
             | bigbadfeline wrote:
             | The people who pass the policies may not know, but the
             | people who formulate and drive the policies know for sure.
             | The Window of Overton is fundamental to today's political
             | environment, more than any other time in history.
        
             | ratelimitsteve wrote:
             | the purpose of a system is what it does, not what it
             | purports to do. doubly so, if it does what it purports to
             | do poorly but does something else very well. this system
             | purports to protect children from adult content online but
             | what it does is offer a legal justification for eliminating
             | any and all anonymity.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >If this becomes law, then yes.
           | 
           | Or they just operate outside of UK jurisdiction, in which
           | case they can politely decline. Any executives/directors of
           | said company might be liable to arrest if they decide to
           | vacation in uk, though.
        
             | HDThoreaun wrote:
             | The UK already has ISP's blocking sites. Anyone that
             | ignores the law will be blocked, will be interesting to see
             | what happens if they end up blocking one of the cloud
             | megascalers.
        
               | anonym29 wrote:
               | Hilarious that they think they can prevent motivated
               | people from accessing information using technical
               | measures. China has been working on this for decades.
               | It's a lost battle. Shadowsocks, V2Ray, xray; protocols
               | like vmess, vless, trojan, etc.
               | 
               | The British government, for all their effort (London has
               | a higher geographic density of CCTV than Beijing) is
               | wasting their time competing for the gold medal at
               | International Totalitarianism Olympics, even the the
               | world's current undisputed champion is losing the
               | internet censorship battle, and always has.
               | 
               | Central planning doesn't work and it never has. That
               | includes central planning of what your citizens are
               | allowed to see, hear, think, and feel.
        
               | digiown wrote:
               | Depends on the how you formulate the goal in the
               | totalitarianism olympics. The goal of totalitarian
               | regimes is not really to completely prevent the flow of
               | information to motivated people. It simply needs to raise
               | the motivation bar high enough so that all but the select
               | few is fed only government-approved propaganda. The few
               | that retain access is tolerated as long as they don't
               | raise a stink. In this view, the efforts of China or Iran
               | is fairly successful.
               | 
               | The UK has a different flavor of authoritarianism
               | centered on surveillance to (ineffectively) improve
               | "safety", and general paternalism at all levels. It
               | doesn't really intend to prevent the flow of information
               | all that much.
        
           | gnarlouse wrote:
           | Age verification to wake up in the morning, age verification
           | to breathe air, age verification to use the restroom, age
           | verification t...
        
             | rustyhancock wrote:
             | You got a Loicense for that?
        
           | dlisboa wrote:
           | All of this would easily be solved by just banning social
           | media. Nothing will convince me they are a net-positive to
           | society.
        
             | retired wrote:
             | At the risk of doing a "you participate in society", would
             | that include HN?
        
               | direwolf20 wrote:
               | That depends if it's social media.
        
             | eikenberry wrote:
             | I don't think social media needs to be banned, but maybe
             | using complex algorithms to drive attention should be. Even
             | Facebook was pretty good back when its feed was a simple,
             | chronological display of all your friends posts and nothing
             | else. It went down the tubes as they moved away from that.
        
               | Fr0styMatt88 wrote:
               | Put together, it's likely most people's friends wouldn't
               | produce enough content to drive engagement, at least in
               | 'public' social media like Facebook.
               | 
               | I remember this phenomenon back when Facebook was less
               | algorithmic -- some days there'd just be no new content
               | at all. Especially I'm guessing if you limit adding
               | friends to actually just the people you'd be happy to
               | grab lunch with.
        
             | bigbadfeline wrote:
             | If you apply the logic of your comment's parent to your
             | suggestion you'll discover that banning social media would
             | soon lead to using any and all communication under
             | mandatory supervision and only after an application and a
             | written permission for every individual act of
             | communication.
        
               | direwolf20 wrote:
               | Did banning heroin soon lead to consuming any and all
               | substances under mandatory supervision and only after an
               | application and written permission for every individual
               | act of consumption?
        
             | mghackerlady wrote:
             | The government shouldn't be limiting any legal
             | communications over the internet
        
               | direwolf20 wrote:
               | That's a tautology. The limited communications are
               | illegal.
        
             | PaulKeeble wrote:
             | Severely disabled people need social media to get any form
             | of communication with others. It is a key mechanism of
             | infrastructure that provides connection for those limit to
             | their homes and bed, which nowadays is an increasing amount
             | of people with Long Covid and ME/CFS patients. We are
             | talking about 10s of millions of people here that you would
             | cut off from each other and the wider world.
             | 
             | Social media isn't just bad interactions, there isn't just
             | one twitter or reddit, its about what you choose to read
             | and interact with and most of its not toxic its just people
             | talking on the same topic.
        
           | brightball wrote:
           | Watching laws like this play out in real time adds some color
           | to the other discussion about software in Europe right now.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46767668#46769847
        
         | krunck wrote:
         | Also VPS services because "SSH -D".
        
         | whynotmaybe wrote:
         | How would this work with a VPN outside of UK that doesn't do it
         | ? Will it be blocked?
        
       | lacoolj wrote:
       | Very shallow, naive approach to child safety. This is like
       | banning children from riding scooters on a highway. They're just
       | going to use a bike instead. Danger still exists.
       | 
       | VPNs are not the only way around this, so if you want to ban the
       | "method of access" you need to be much more broad, and get the
       | parents involved.
        
         | ASalazarMX wrote:
         | A innefective mandate for the intended purpose, but a very
         | effective mandate to know what adults use VPNs.
         | 
         | Between this and the repeated attempts at encryption backdoors,
         | this is something I would expect from a totalitarian regime
         | that is preparing for civil unrest, not the UK.
        
           | TheCraiggers wrote:
           | > but a very effective mandate to know what adults use VPNs.
           | 
           | How? I suppose if the VPN services all started requiring age
           | verification that might tell you this info. But I very much
           | doubt that'll happen, as it runs completely counter to many
           | legitimate VPN services' missions.
        
         | romanovcode wrote:
         | > Very shallow, naive approach to child safety.
         | 
         | It's naive of _you_ to think this has anything to do with the
         | child safety.
        
         | kelseyfrog wrote:
         | It's like banning children from owning and carrying handguns.
         | They still have knives and ultimately fists. We cannot
         | eliminate harms, therefore we should not attempt to reduce
         | harms.
        
         | CJefferson wrote:
         | But, we do ban children on scooters from roads in the UK, but
         | they can go on bikes? I don't understand your metaphor.. what
         | you are suggesting is what we do and it's sensible.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | I don't think they don't mean the same thing you mean by
           | scooters. Difference in the language.
        
           | captainbland wrote:
           | In fairness we essentially ban scooters from practically
           | every public path/road but they're still everywhere
        
         | chrisjj wrote:
         | If parent could be sufficiently involved, there'd be no need
         | for any ban.
        
       | linhns wrote:
       | How to enforce?
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | Same way as they do with porn? Massive fines. Or the threat
         | thereof.
        
       | Deukhoofd wrote:
       | > may make provision for the provider of a relevant VPN service
       | to apply to any person seeking to access its service in or from
       | the UK age assurance which is highly effective at correctly
       | determining whether or not that person is a child
       | 
       | "The law we made is like super duper good!!"
       | 
       | > Children may also turn to VPNs, which would then undermine the
       | child safety gains of the Online Safety Act
       | 
       | "The law we made is easily circumvented :("
        
         | donmcronald wrote:
         | > may make provision for the provider of a relevant VPN service
         | to apply to any person seeking to access its service in or from
         | the UK age assurance which is highly effective at correctly
         | determining whether or not that person is a child
         | 
         | I think you're reading it wrong. Regulations _may_ have a
         | provision that allows providers to apply age assurance [systems
         | ?] if the age assurance is highly effective at determining age.
         | 
         | I'm always surprised how ambiguous the writing is for this kind
         | of stuff. Maybe that's the point. If the regulations don't (
         | _may_ is optional) have the provision, does that mean they need
         | to demand ID?
         | 
         | IMO, highly effective = our buddies' tech that we declare
         | highly effective. The whole ID push around the world is big
         | tech trying to set up government mandated services that you're
         | going to be forced to pay for, either directly or via taxes.
         | 
         | The end game is probably digital IDs with digitally signed
         | requests for everything you do. And, of course, corrupt
         | individuals and criminals will somehow be able to get as many
         | digital IDs as they want.
         | 
         | That money should be spent on education. We're being robbed.
        
       | antonvs wrote:
       | I foresee a lot of VPN companies starting to offer "secure proxy"
       | services or something like that. "It's not a VPN, it's a secure
       | proxy!"
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | The law doesn't work like that. First of all, the actual
         | regulation that gets made probably has a definition of VPN and
         | won't rely on a company self-describing as VPN. Secondly law
         | enforcement and courts aren't idiots*
         | 
         | * well, many of them are. But not in the particular way that
         | would be needed for a simple rename to work.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | Proxies aren't VPNs though. They didn't mean call proxies
           | VPNS, they meant provide proxies.
        
             | advisedwang wrote:
             | True if you are being technically rigorous. However the
             | "VPN" services being targeted are already what would be
             | more accurately described as a "secure proxy". So whatever
             | regulation gets drafted will certainly be done so to cover
             | "secure proxies", even if it uses the term "VPN".
        
       | zrn900 wrote:
       | After enforcing age verification to prevent children from viewing
       | those pesky Gaza genocide videos that Israel did not want them to
       | see, they gotta ensure that those brats wont be able to get
       | around it and still see the videos.
       | 
       | Its amazing how this censorship was brought on rapidly and
       | precisely after Netanyahu demanded it at the start of last year.
       | No surprise as half of Starmer government was funded by zionists.
        
         | landl0rd wrote:
         | I really don't think governments need a kick in the tail from a
         | foreign power to try to grab more power. It's just what they do
         | by nature.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Not sure what you're going on about. I don't think children
         | should be watching _any_ genocide videos. Is that something you
         | watched a lot of as a child?
        
           | c0m47053 wrote:
           | The thing is, it's not really children who lose access to
           | this sort of content, it's the user who doesn't want to give
           | Reddit or Twitter or whoever else a copy of their driving
           | licence. Without age verification, they don't see the truth
           | of something like Gaza, because it's ages restricted. They
           | can however view the other, sanitised version of the story.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46763548
        
       | 4fterd4rk wrote:
       | UK nanny state makes it an nonviable place to live. It's
       | pervasive from the moment you step off the plane at Heathrow and
       | see the inane safety stickers covering every surface "WARNING:
       | DOOR" "WARNING: WATER FROM HOT TAP IS HOT" as well as the CCTV
       | cameras.
        
         | causalscience wrote:
         | > "WARNING: WATER FROM HOT TAP IS HOT"
         | 
         | LOL are you talking about the US? With their "don't put the cat
         | inside the microwave" stickers and the "coffee is too hot"
         | lawsuits?
        
           | 4fterd4rk wrote:
           | Stella Liebeck was seriously injured by that McDonald's
           | coffee and it's a myth perpetuated by the McDonald's PR team
           | that it was a frivolous lawsuit. She was in the hospital for
           | eight days and required skin grafts. Do some research.
        
             | SapporoChris wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaur
             | a... "Liebeck's attorneys argued that, at 180-190 degF
             | (82-88 degC), McDonald's coffee was defective, and more
             | likely to cause serious injury than coffee served at any
             | other establishment"
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Preparing_the_beverage
             | "Optimal coffee extraction occurs between 91 and 96 degC
             | (196 and 205 degF).Ideal holding temperatures range from 85
             | to 88 degC (185 to 190 degF) to as high as 93 degC (199
             | degF), and the ideal serving temperature is 68 to 79 degC
             | (154 to 174 degF).
             | 
             | I'm aware of the injuries she incurred. I think it is
             | frivolous because hot temperatures are simply part of the
             | nature of coffee. McDonalds did not select the vehicle with
             | out cup holders for Stella. McDonalds did not select the
             | sweatpants that Stella chose to wear. McDonalds didn't
             | spill the coffee in her lap. Lastly, even non-coffee
             | drinkers are aware that coffee is hot.
        
           | epiccoleman wrote:
           | > With their "don't put the cat inside the microwave"
           | stickers
           | 
           | not sure what this means, my microwave does not have such a
           | sticker
           | 
           | > "coffee is too hot" lawsuits
           | 
           | I'd encourage you to look into the case you refer to[1] and
           | decide for yourself whether the lawsuit feels frivolous given
           | the facts. My read is that the lawsuit was justified.
           | 
           | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Re
           | stau...
        
             | causalscience wrote:
             | If caring that people might burn themselves with hot water
             | is nanny state, then caring that people might burn
             | themselves with macdonalds coffee is also nanny state.
        
               | mghackerlady wrote:
               | Caring that some restaurant employee is negligent enough
               | to pour coffee hot enough to require an 8 day hospital
               | stay isn't a nanny state, that is basic public safety. If
               | I got in a hot tub expecting it to be hot tub temperature
               | and it burnt my skin off I'd expect them to get in
               | trouble for endangering me by misleading me into
               | believing it was normal hot tub temperature.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | ah the country of brexit has more "clever ideas"
       | 
       | something I find myself saying often lately watching BBC News
       | every morning
       | 
       | How about Cloudflare Warp? And don't some browsers like Opera
       | have builtin VPN?
       | 
       | What about tunnels like Hurricane Electric?
        
       | irusensei wrote:
       | Did the CEO of Tor announced when age verification features will
       | be implemented?
        
       | causalscience wrote:
       | I'm in the UK and I've been involved in advocating for this.
       | 
       | I find it utterly frustrating to read the "think of the children"
       | mockery here on HN.
       | 
       | I argue that this is good.
       | 
       | There's many reasons why children having unfettered access to the
       | internet and different campaigners care about different aspects,
       | so I'm going to talk about the one I care about: addiction,
       | destroyed ability to focus, and dopamine desensitization. In the
       | UK (and elsewhere in the world, I imagine) there's a huge problem
       | with people addicted to phones and children are especially
       | vulnerable. I don't care if adults are vulnerable, they have to
       | make their own decisions. But I care that parents that do
       | everything right in terms of educating their children on how to
       | be healthy with respect of phones (like me and my partner) then
       | have to send their children to schools where they're given ipads.
       | It's not fair to say "banning doesnt work you should just not
       | give your children phones", but then force you to send your
       | children to schools that give them ipads and other distractions.
       | 
       | It's a matter of network effects (something that HN loooves
       | talking about). In addition to the fact that phones are
       | engineered to be addictive, you have the fact that in many
       | schools EVERY child is on social media, and so any family that
       | wants to stay away has to decide between isolating their child
       | from society, or selling themselves into the "engagement
       | industry".
       | 
       | I think that banning is a valid approach. It won't be 100%
       | effective, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that it will
       | introduce friction (another thing that HN looooves talking about)
       | and so will reduce the total number on children that is on social
       | media and therefore reduce the social need for other children to
       | be in.
       | 
       | So, we're adding friction to break or weaken the network effects
       | that keep these cancer companies harming children in schools.
        
         | monsecchris wrote:
         | The reason you want this is because the only way to implement
         | it facilitates your tyranny and it still wont achieve what you
         | pretend to desire.
        
         | miningape wrote:
         | > I think that banning is a valid approach
         | 
         | Are we talking about VPNs or phones in general? Because
         | somewhere in this we jumped from VPNs to phones in general, and
         | these things are not equivalent.
         | 
         | A phone ban in general for children, maybe I could agree with
         | you on. But, a VPN ban on those grounds alone is utterly
         | pointless: it's not like there aren't millions of other bits of
         | internet crack children can easily find without a VPN.
         | 
         | Not addressing the actual concerns and instead pointing fingers
         | at a totally different, larger issue reeks of "won't somebody
         | think of the children". All with the convenient downstream
         | effect of revealing which citizens own VPNs.
        
         | wasmainiac wrote:
         | I don't think people mocking the reasoning behind the law, just
         | its implementation. I'm all for kicking kids off the internet
         | and phones. I'm not British... fyi, but as kids we were not
         | allowed to drink but we still found ways to get beer or
         | whatever else because the regulations were not effective.
         | 
         | It's better to be more to the point and straight up identity
         | social media platforms as addictive or otherwise harmful and
         | block them altogether or at least kill the algorithm and
         | endless scroll.
        
         | boznz wrote:
         | The title of the site "Hacker News" should be a dead giveaway
         | why this law is mocked here
        
           | causalscience wrote:
           | Well, we've tried your thing of letting these companies call
           | the shots. Now we'll try my thing for a bit :-)
           | 
           | What's more hacker than experimenting to get the results you
           | want?
        
             | iamnothere wrote:
             | No, we "hackers" will mock it and develop workarounds for
             | it, leak ID databases to undercut support, etc. Worst case
             | we move to sneakernets and meshes and teach kids about old
             | school floppynets. (When I was a kid all the best stuff
             | came by floppy, sometimes by rogue BBS.) More likely we'll
             | just distribute guides on using Tor and build a better
             | ecosystem around it.
        
         | AlienRobot wrote:
         | When I went to school nobody gave me an ipad. We just wrote on
         | paper, the teacher on chalkboard. That was a long time ago,
         | though.
        
         | 6DM wrote:
         | In my opinion you're undercutting your own argument. You should
         | be working to remove tablets from the schools instead of
         | advocating for making us register our ID's all over the
         | internet (which has proven to be insecure on an almost monthly
         | basis now).
        
         | ReluctantLaser wrote:
         | It seems you want to talk about other things rather than the
         | VPN age-gating or the online safety act this post is about.
         | I'll engage with the content of this post.
         | 
         | > but then force you to send your children to schools that give
         | them ipads and other distractions
         | 
         | What does the online safety act (OSA) or this VPN age check do
         | to prevent this? Are the "ipads" at school giving the users
         | "unfettered access to the internet"? That seems a bit
         | irresponsible, however I would think that your ire should
         | instead be directed towards the schools? Perhaps I'm
         | misunderstanding?
         | 
         | > In addition to the fact that phones are engineered to be
         | addictive
         | 
         | Is it the phones or the content? I interpret your views as
         | someone who should be campaigning for phones and other
         | "distractions" to be restricted in a school environment,
         | however the OSA and this VPN age check do not appear to tackle
         | this.
         | 
         | > there's a huge problem with people addicted to phones and
         | children are especially vulnerable
         | 
         | I will assume this is true for the sake of conversation.
         | Similar to my previous query, how does the OSA or this VPN age
         | check tackle this problem? Will banning certain types of
         | content prevent this, or perhaps shift it? Instead of social
         | media, would it be preferable if children were playing games on
         | their phone? If they were then "addicted" to gaming or
         | socialising around a popular game, would the proposal be at
         | that point to ban children from playing games on their phone?
         | To me, it seems the problem is less the content and more that
         | the environment is setup in certain ways that allows this. It
         | is unclear to me how banning and gating certain content will
         | prevent this.
         | 
         | > different campaigners care about different aspects, so I'm
         | going to talk about the one I care about: addiction, destroyed
         | ability to focus, and dopamine desensitization
         | 
         | What kind of things are you pushing outside of banning material
         | and gating access? Is there a push for educating parents of the
         | dangers of this "addiction"? Perhaps informing people about how
         | to use parental controls to limit the access their children
         | have? Is there a push on companies to provide robust, and easy-
         | to-use parental controls? I feel that parents should have the
         | tools, yet it seems that we consider the problem out of the
         | parents control. Why is that? If parents make an informed
         | choice and choose differently to you, should they be allowed to
         | do so?
         | 
         | > I don't care if adults are vulnerable, they have to make
         | their own decisions.
         | 
         | I feel that if you are caring about children accessing
         | "addicting" material that you should also care about your
         | fellow citizens accessing the same. How would those adults know
         | that this material is addictive? Are they being informed by the
         | state? What avenues are there for them to get help? It seems
         | that the OSA and this VPN age check do not provide any
         | assistance to people that are perhaps already addicted, or
         | preventing people from falling into that trap. Does the care
         | only extend to children and no further? Should we care about
         | building sturdy adults regardless if they are currently
         | children or not?
         | 
         | My general thoughts on this is that there appears to be a lot
         | of restriction and preventing people from accessing certain
         | content, however very little on informing people on what those
         | perceived dangers are. The UK government is especially keen on
         | this restriction, yet I am seeing no push towards informing
         | people, or providing assistance for those afflicted. To me, the
         | proposed motivation and the implementation are incongruent with
         | each other. The perception of safety, as opposed to an
         | improvement in real world safety.
        
       | ares623 wrote:
       | Every time this comes up I always take the opportunity to suggest
       | that it should've been a ban on _smart_phones. Not dumb phones,
       | not laptops, not even tablets (i.e. those without sim).
       | 
       | Easier to enforce, you don't have to rely on the very same
       | companies that peddle the thing you're trying to ban in the first
       | place. It can disrupt the network effects that could hopefully be
       | enough to let people voluntarily cut it out of their lives.
       | People are primed to get rid of it, but can't because it is so
       | addicting and said network effects.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | It is really hard to find dumb phones to buy. Even the dumbest
         | ones in stores right now, flip phones that look like they are
         | 20 years old, still have some very janky Internet features
         | baked in.
        
           | ares623 wrote:
           | That's because smartphones are objectively superior. When
           | they are banned, a niche will become available for dumb
           | phones and manufacturers to fill. Still having access to
           | janky internet is not perfect yes, but I would argue it is
           | still way better than current smartphones. Just adding a
           | little bit of friction can shortcircuit the addiction people
           | currently have, and the social media corps definitely know
           | this and are super obsessed with removing any friction at all
           | at every step of their user journey.
        
       | IlikeMadison wrote:
       | China, Iran, UK. same stuff, different names.
        
       | javascriptfan69 wrote:
       | We will try everything except regulating the algorithmic content
       | feeds themselves.
        
         | causalscience wrote:
         | Yo, I'm all for banning all of these companies from my country.
         | That would be ideal.
         | 
         | But then you'll have HN: NOOOO it's not effective, people will
         | just use VPNs nanny state! Oppression! Freedom of speech!
        
         | pibaker wrote:
         | If algorithmic feed is so bad then why are you on hacker news,
         | a website with an algorithmic feed that is notoriously non-
         | transparent and often accused of being manipulated by bad
         | actors?
        
           | javascriptfan69 wrote:
           | "If smoking is so bad then why are you smoking?"
           | 
           | Because I'm addicted like everyone else.
        
             | pibaker wrote:
             | Go to your account page, turn on noprocrast and set minaway
             | to a very large number. You effectively ban your own
             | account once you click confirm. Now set up home firewall /
             | device blocking settings and block the HN domain. The first
             | step towards overcoming addiction is admitting that you
             | have one. I pray for your speedy recovery.
        
       | pibaker wrote:
       | Every HN thread on social media or porn inevitably gets overrun
       | with "but think of the children" comments calling for banning
       | kids from social media, or the internet, or from having a phone
       | at all.
       | 
       | And then every time a country actually tries to ban children from
       | the internet, they cry "but my privacy!!!" As if having to hand
       | your id to the state to use the internet isn't exactly what you
       | asked for. As if the regimes most interested in "protecting the
       | kid" aren't exactly the ones who puts you in jail for a meme too
       | spicy.
       | 
       | You reap what you sow. Congrats on making the internet worse.
        
         | iamnothere wrote:
         | These are not the same people. I doubt that most of the people
         | pushing for mandatory restrictions on child access care about
         | privacy at all.
        
           | pibaker wrote:
           | You will be surprised by the number of people (even among
           | self proclaimed libertarians) who think children have no
           | rights and are essentially their parents' properties.
        
             | SauntSolaire wrote:
             | Granted, but that's different than thinking they're the
             | states property.
        
         | sadeshmukh wrote:
         | Sounds like the Goomba fallacy:
         | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Goomba_fallacy
        
       | AuthAuth wrote:
       | You either ban children from social media through age
       | restrictions or you ban the harmful content from social media. We
       | cant just the next generation get cooked. Both are hard to
       | implement and unpopular and attack freedom but you must pick one
       | because the harm is so clear.
        
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