[HN Gopher] FAA institutes nationwide drone no-fly zones around ...
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       FAA institutes nationwide drone no-fly zones around ICE operations
        
       Author : dayofthedaleks
       Score  : 208 points
       Date   : 2026-01-25 17:24 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.aerotime.aero)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.aerotime.aero)
        
       | xvxvx wrote:
       | Not shady at all. Can't have the public see what's going on.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | You don't understand. You must always respect authority. Trump
         | is the highest authority in the land, put there by God.
        
           | koiueo wrote:
           | I no longer know if it's sarcasm
        
             | garciasn wrote:
             | It depends on what team you're rooting for in the sports
             | game that has become politics in the US.
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | This has been the case for a long time. What's new and
               | weird with this "sports" game is that the side with the
               | umpire in their pocket has suddenly decided the game is
               | _bloodsport_.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Oh from their point of view it always was. You can't
               | explain the last decades in any other way. It's been
               | brewing over time and as long as the blood spilled was
               | mostly foreign blood on foreign soil it was all fine. Now
               | the masks are dropping and suddenly it is plain to
               | everybody what was plain to outsiders looking in for a
               | long time.
        
               | vineyardmike wrote:
               | If you're a minority in America then it's been a blood
               | sport for a while. It's only recently that the majority
               | demographics are now at risk.
        
               | yoyohello13 wrote:
               | People believing the president of the United States has
               | been ordained by God, and can therefore do no wrong,
               | should be extremely concerning to EVERYONE, no matter
               | what team your rooting for.
        
               | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
               | Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of
               | the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so,
               | it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these
               | people frighten me. Politics and governing demand
               | compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting
               | in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I
               | know, I've tried to deal with them.            Barry
               | Goldwater
               | 
               | He had a few more pertinent quotes on the issue, but he
               | recognized the very problem he was courting. You cannot
               | have a debate with God.
        
               | prmph wrote:
               | Correction: you cannot have a debate with people who have
               | set up their politics as a God.
               | 
               | In the scriptures God is depicted as someone who
               | sometimes is willing to have a debate, and reason with
               | people, of course not to learn anything, but to explain
               | why things are (or must be) the way they are.
               | 
               | In some instances, God is even depicted as willing to
               | listen to man and do things he otherwise would not have
               | done, so long that they don't deviate from his
               | fundamental purpose.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | The preachers lost control of the Republican party in
               | 2016. And if me from 10 years ago could hear me from
               | today saying that I wish they were still in control, he
               | would have a stroke, but I do.
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | That's because this is a pretty mainstream opinion now. I'd
             | say... a quarter to a third of the population holds such
             | beliefs.
             | 
             | If you ever shook your head at theocratic regimes such as
             | Iran, well maybe look a little closer to home. "But... the
             | people in charge of Iran are hypocrites, they do nasty
             | stuff at home behind closed doors."
             | 
             | Again, may I point to Mom: "we have mullas at home".
        
           | yoyohello13 wrote:
           | This is the real danger of religion. When you train people
           | from birth to turn off their brains and submit to authority
           | without question, this is what happens.
        
             | salawat wrote:
             | Not quite. Religion, when taught properly, can serve as an
             | innoculant against corrupt states, as it ingrains a kernel
             | of understanding that man, and all his works are flawed,
             | falling short of the perfection only attainable by the
             | divine. There is always something higher worth maintaining
             | loyalty toward. Like most things though, practicing that
             | doesn't make you super popular with "leaders of worship"
             | who wield their position in a human institutions as a tool
             | to their own ends.
        
               | yoyohello13 wrote:
               | I agree wholeheartedly. Religion, practiced as designed,
               | is extremely positive in my experience. I think the issue
               | is that religion is and has been abused throughout
               | history. I'm really not sure how to deal with this issue
               | though. It seems the Abrahamic religion are quite
               | vulnerable to this kind of abuse, likely because a core
               | part of the doctrine is submission to authority.
               | 
               | I've never seen a Buddhist led genocide for instance, and
               | I think a big part of that is the emphasis on looking
               | inward for answers instead of outward.
        
               | shawn_w wrote:
               | I don't know if it ever was labeled a genocide, but Sri
               | Lanka has a long history of Buddhist lead attacks against
               | Tamils and other minorities.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence
        
               | yoyohello13 wrote:
               | Fair enough. Seems like the common thread is religion +
               | government = atrocities
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | The common thread is groups of people = atrocities.
               | Religion and government are two common properties that
               | emerge from groups of people, but there are also
               | countless examples of atrocities that involve neither.
        
             | terminalshort wrote:
             | This is not an accurate description of religion, at least
             | not as practiced by anyone I have ever known who is
             | religious.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Religiosity is negatively correlated with intelligence,
               | so it sounds directionally accurate.
        
           | bicx wrote:
           | I'm sure they said the same about Obama.... Right?
        
             | margalabargala wrote:
             | Each time that Obama expanded a domestic policing
             | organization that then went to American cities and executed
             | citizens, the same thing was said about him, yes.
        
       | dayofthedaleks wrote:
       | Bubble of protection is 3000 feet laterally and 1000 feet
       | vertically. From the article:
       | 
       | "Unlike traditional Temporary Flight Restrictions, the NOTAM does
       | not provide geographic coordinates, activation times, or public
       | notification when the restriction is in effect near a specific
       | location. Instead, the restricted airspace moves with DHS assets,
       | meaning the no-fly zone can appear wherever ICE or other DHS
       | units operate."
       | 
       | "In practical terms, a drone operator flying legally in a public
       | area could unknowingly enter restricted airspace if an ICE convoy
       | passes within the protected radius."
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | So the unannounced movements of the secret police in their
         | unmarked vehicles also create a bubble around them where
         | usually-legal activity is illegal?
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | That's the goal, it just isn't spelled out.
        
           | speed_spread wrote:
           | And reciprocally, where usually illegal activity (beating up
           | people and kidnapping them) is legal.
        
             | oawiejrlij wrote:
             | You mean, shooting them ten times in the back?
        
           | unangst wrote:
           | See no crimes. Hear no truth. Speak no facts.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | One of the hallmarks of authoritarianism is to have laws that
         | are virtually impossible to _not_ break.
         | 
         | I hope this gets tested in court and declared unconstitutional
         | for being overly vague and arbitrary. For example, Montana used
         | to have some maximum speed limits that were just "reasonable
         | and prudent", but they were eventually rejected by courts as
         | being too vague (what's prudent to you may not be prudent to
         | someone else). This is similar, in that the FAA has a no fly
         | zone but they don't actually publish what it is.
         | 
         | Catch-22 and 1984 weren't supposed to be instruction manuals.
        
           | gtowey wrote:
           | > I hope this gets tested in court and declared
           | unconstitutional
           | 
           | The rule of law has left the building. The SC is willing to
           | rubber-stamp nearly anything right now.
           | 
           | Waiting and hoping for common sense to prevail is what allows
           | authoritarian regimes to bulldoze through existing laws and
           | norms. Even if the courts were an avenue for redress, they
           | are being overwhelmed by the daily barrage of new illegal and
           | unconstitutional actions. Once the courts get around to
           | addressing these cases, the damage has been done and the
           | precedent has been set.
        
             | scoofy wrote:
             | If you think the SCOTUS has been arbitrarily rubber
             | stamping the administration's goals, you haven't been
             | paying attention. I'll fully agree with you it appears to
             | have been fairly partisan, but less than a month again they
             | blocked the administration from deploying the national
             | guard to states:
             | 
             | >In one of its most consequential rulings of the year, just
             | before breaking for the holidays last week the Supreme
             | Court held that President Trump acted improperly in
             | federalizing the National Guard in Illinois and in
             | activating troops across the state. Although the case
             | centered on the administration's deployments in Chicago,
             | the court's ruling suggests that Trump's actions in Los
             | Angeles and Portland were likewise illegal.
             | 
             | https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2025-12-30/supreme-
             | cou...
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | But they also said the president can't be punished for
               | doing illegal things, so what difference does it make?
        
               | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
               | That's not what they ruled.
        
               | seattle_spring wrote:
               | How so? The ruling was that he had full immunity during
               | "presidential duties", which has many times been
               | interpreted by the SC as "anything he wants to do while
               | president."
        
               | fzeroracer wrote:
               | And notably, before any further disagreement pops up the
               | other dissenting judges literally said as much. The
               | relevant quote:
               | 
               | "When he uses his official powers in any way, under the
               | majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from
               | criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to
               | assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a
               | military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe
               | in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.
               | Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the
               | trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use
               | his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that
               | he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he
               | might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to
               | be. That is the majority's message today."
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | Unless ordering assassinations and launching a coup are
               | "core constitutional powers" of the president, then no
               | the ruling does not give him immunity for that.
               | 
               | As a practical matter, if the president is ordering the
               | military to do those things and the military is obeying
               | those orders, we are far beyond the point where concepts
               | like legal immunity matter.
        
               | fzeroracer wrote:
               | > Unless ordering assassinations and launching a coup are
               | "core constitutional powers" of the president, then no
               | the ruling does not give him immunity for that.
               | 
               | Just to be clear: you are disagreeing with a dissenting
               | Supreme Court justice on how much the law protects the
               | president. Are you a lawyer? Do you know more about how
               | much the law binds the president than the literal office
               | that has the final say on the law?
        
               | seattle_spring wrote:
               | If you think Roberts, Alito, and especially Thomas have
               | actually been following the law as it was intended, then
               | I have a beautiful bridge in New York to sell to you.
        
               | fzeroracer wrote:
               | Make no mistake, I fully believe the Supreme Court is
               | complicit in this manner and has long since abdicated
               | their duties to uphold the law and the constitution. But
               | my point is that when the Supreme Court comes out and
               | says that the President is immune to all actions they
               | take, it seems like a folly to try and pretend that they
               | don't mean what they say, at least as long as Trump is
               | President. The 'law' is what the Supreme Court says it
               | is, and they've decided Trump is the law.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | Are you disagreeing with all 6 concurring Supreme Court
               | justices on much the law protects the president? Are you
               | a lawyer? Do you know more about how much the law binds
               | the president than the literal office that has the final
               | say on the law?
               | 
               | See how stupid that argument is?
        
               | avidiax wrote:
               | Ordering violence orchestrated by the military is a core
               | constitutional power. It's called being "commander-in-
               | chief" of the armed forces.
               | 
               | The ruling makes it very clear that core constitutional
               | powers have conclusive and preclusive (absolute)
               | immunity.
               | 
               | Other official acts have presumptive immunity.
               | 
               | In all cases, the motive is above question. If Trump has
               | a fight with Melania, he can order the CIA to rendition
               | and disappear her. He doesn't even need to claim that
               | she's a spy. It can never be questioned in court. He can
               | then pardon everyone involved, so even the underlings
               | face no court.
               | 
               | In all cases, the official acts are explicitly not
               | admissible as evidence. Using the example above, the
               | District of Columbia can try to prosecute for murder, but
               | is unable to introduce the fact of the order as evidence.
               | If Trump receives a bribe, the official act that he
               | undertook at the briber's behest is similarly
               | inadmissible.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | > Ordering violence orchestrated by the military is a
               | core constitutional power. It's called being "commander-
               | in-chief" of the armed forces.
               | 
               | Incorrect. The commander in chief, same as all military
               | officers, has the authority to issue lawful orders to the
               | chain of command below him. He does not have the
               | authority to issue unlawful orders, and if he does, his
               | subordinates have the legal obligation to disobey them.
               | The president does not have constitutional power to order
               | arbitrary violence.
               | 
               | > If Trump has a fight with Melania, he can order the CIA
               | to rendition and disappear her
               | 
               | No he can't because this is against the law, and it is
               | therefore not a presidential power. The president has no
               | constitutional authority to order agencies to violate the
               | law.
               | 
               | > He can then pardon everyone involved, so even the
               | underlings face no court.
               | 
               | This is, unfortunately, true. But it has been true as
               | long as the US has existed.
               | 
               | > If Trump receives a bribe, the official act that he
               | undertook at the briber's behest is similarly
               | inadmissible.
               | 
               | This is true, but the act of taking the bribe is not an
               | exercise of presidential power so he can be charged with
               | accepting a bribe. This is not new to the recent SC
               | decision.
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | Ok he can tell his chain of command some lies then. Same
               | difference.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | You're a student of history, thus I think you understand
               | how "commander in chief of the armed forces" is a
               | constitutional duty without needing further explanation
               | of why.
               | 
               | I think you intended to communicate the Supreme Court
               | would balk at it happening.
               | 
               | Yes.
               | 
               | Much like Kavanaugh balking at ethnicity-based stops
               | after allowing language + skin color based stops. By
               | then, it's too late.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | You are obviously not a student of military law or you
               | would understand that being commander in chief confers
               | only the right to issue lawful orders.
        
               | terminalshort wrote:
               | > The ruling was that he had full immunity during
               | "presidential duties"
               | 
               | Yes. This was basically agreed upon before that the
               | president has legal immunity for exercising his
               | constitutional powers, but was never explicitly ruled on
               | by the court. If the president does something outside his
               | legal authority, then that isn't his presidential duty,
               | and he can be punished.
               | 
               | > which has many times been interpreted by the SC as
               | "anything he wants to do while president."
               | 
               | This part is just false
        
               | derektank wrote:
               | They made that ruling while Biden was president. It seems
               | hard to call that an example of rubber stamping for an
               | administration that did not exist yet.
               | 
               | John Roberts and other conservative members of the court
               | do have an ideological commitment to the Unitary
               | Executive Theory of the presidency (foolishly, in my
               | view) but this has the potential to benefit both
               | Democratic and Republican presidents.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | And they will be perfectly happy to walk it back when (or
               | if) a Democrat is elected president in the future. Stare
               | decisis is no longer a thing with this bunch.
        
               | avidiax wrote:
               | That ruling[1] is even worse than rubber stamping. It's
               | saying that no stamp is needed at all.
               | 
               | > It seems hard to call that an example of rubber
               | stamping for an administration that did not exist yet.
               | 
               | The Trump administration absolutely did exist, both in
               | the past and the present (waiting in the wings) in July
               | 2024 when the ruling was issued.
               | 
               | While it's true that all past and future presidents are
               | affected by the ruling, there's exactly one former
               | president and presidential candidate at that time that
               | was likely to face criminal charges for actions taken
               | while in office, in either first or second terms.
               | 
               | It's a bit much to claim that the ruling doesn't have at
               | least the appearance of benefiting Trump exclusively,
               | especially given the timing. The ruling caused many of
               | Trump's trials to be delayed to be effectively concurrent
               | with the 2024 election.
               | 
               | We went 235 years without clarifying that presidents had
               | presumptive immunity; all previous presidents (even
               | Trump) acted under the presumption that prosecution for
               | official acts might be unlikely but was possible.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._United_States
        
               | tasty_freeze wrote:
               | Trump claimed repeatedly and vigorously that whatever the
               | President does is by definition legal. He also repeatedly
               | and vigorously claimed that Obama had broken the law by
               | spying on then-candidate Trump in 2016. I don't know if
               | he himself noticed the contradiction but blustered on
               | anwway or was too dense to notice.
               | 
               | [BTW, Trump wasn't spied on -- Russian assets were spied
               | on and it turned out that some of those communications
               | were with Trump's team. There are ~100 pages of these
               | communications captured in the Mueller report. ]
        
               | bonsai_spool wrote:
               | > they blocked the administration from deploying the
               | national guard to states
               | 
               | That is not what the decision stated - there was even a
               | quote from a justice saying that the administration could
               | easily attain the same result with a different legal
               | mechanism, all but encouraging such a change in behavior.
               | 
               | Edit: the 'improperly' portion of your quote is the
               | operative term
        
               | scoofy wrote:
               | Yes, and my point is exactly that a rubber stamping
               | SCOTUS would have literally allowed it even though it was
               | "improper." That's what rubber stamping means.
        
               | overfeed wrote:
               | "Change this sentence, change the date and resubmit" _is_
               | rubber-stamping - they just require a big-enough fig-leaf
               | and are bold enough to publicly hint at the parameters of
               | the fig-leaf they will accept.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | that perspective is not backed by data, and the
             | administration doesn't appeal everything
             | 
             | very few supreme court cases make it to headline news, and
             | the ones that do are the ones you're thinking about it.
             | those are the ones split by ideological lines, which are
             | less than 10% of what SCOTUS rules on. the government loses
             | many cases unanimously as well. there are some unsigned
             | opinions that do punt things back to lower courts that may
             | be in the government's favor, or not.
             | 
             | all to say, its more nuanced than that. the trend, as a
             | last and compromised bulwark, is there, but that's not how
             | the court consistently behaves.
        
               | penultimatename wrote:
               | This is literally backed by data. 21 out of 25 emergency
               | docker cases taken up with the Supreme Court were ruled
               | in the Trump administration's favor. Only one of the
               | cases against the administration was unanimous.
               | 
               | At the appellate level, Trump appointed judges vote in
               | favor of his policies at a substantially higher rate than
               | any previous president at 92% of cases.
               | 
               | https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/01/looking-back-
               | at-2025-the-...
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/11/us/politics/trumps-
               | appeal...
        
               | atonse wrote:
               | Is there a reason you're only choosing the emergency
               | docket in your sample size though?
        
               | ggggffggggg wrote:
               | And the emergency docket is _exactly_ where one should
               | look for these very recent very blatantly illegal actions
               | and lawsuits aiming to counter them.
               | 
               | So yes the data is in, and yes it's bad, and emphatically
               | _yes_ it's exactly what this thread is saying. In case
               | anyone reading in good faith was wondering.
        
             | no_wizard wrote:
             | Anything but an administration being able to manipulate the
             | Fed, it seems. Most legal experts believe that will be a
             | hard strike down on the administration
        
           | mothballed wrote:
           | The gun free school zone act has been upheld even though you
           | could be within 1000 ft of one with no real indication there
           | is one there. Supposedly you can only be convicted for doing
           | it knowingly, but IIRC knowingly has been interpreted to mean
           | as little as you live near the area so reasonably should have
           | known.
           | 
           | Also note, i.e. stuff like statutory rape has been upheld
           | even in cases where the perpetrator in all good faith thought
           | the victim was 18+, the victim initiated selling the
           | services, and the victim provided fake ID showing they were
           | 18+.
           | 
           | So there is not necessarily any need for mens rea in the US
           | legal system.
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | But your examples are markedly different to me. Yes, those
             | examples do put the onus on the individual to ensure there
             | are no schools around or that an individual is of legal
             | age, but those are at least discoverable things - school
             | locations are public info, and I think for any adult it's
             | not that difficult to steer clear of anyone who looks
             | mildly close to underage.
             | 
             | But in this instance, the movements of ICE are
             | _specifically hidden_ by the government - heck, they 've
             | even threatened to prosecute people who publish this
             | information!! It is the literal definition of a Catch-22.
        
             | UncleEntity wrote:
             | >> Also note, i.e. stuff like statutory rape has been
             | upheld even in cases where the perpetrator in all good
             | faith thought the victim was 18+, the victim initiated
             | selling the services, and the victim provided fake ID
             | showing they were 18+.
             | 
             | You had me up to the "selling the services" part.
             | 
             | If you are 'engaging' with someone in a criminal enterprise
             | it's probably reasonable to assume they might misrepresent
             | certain facts to make the sale.
        
             | jjav wrote:
             | School buildings don't randomly and secretly move around
             | all the time.
             | 
             | So while there isn't a line drawn on the ground, it's
             | completely different.
        
           | assaddayinh wrote:
           | Speed limits are biology and physics derived. The eye has a
           | max speed, over which it starts to rewrite the history of
           | what you saw. Everytime you have been "frozzen in fear" the
           | first few milliseconds are just the eye rewriting the logs.
           | 
           | So you take that the saccade speed
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade) + speed of visual
           | buffer reaction + reasonable time to break and you get a max
           | speed for that.
           | 
           | Same goes when you have two points of attention, like traffic
           | in front of you and merging traffic, the speed gets reduced
           | to compensate.
        
             | jjk166 wrote:
             | Weird that when you're in Nevada the eye moves fast enough
             | for you to react when going at 80 mph but in Arizona your
             | eyes can only move fast enough for 75 mph, and in
             | California no ones eyes move fast enough to react over 70
             | mph.
        
           | gcanyon wrote:
           | One time I was racing across the country in a moving van
           | because my wife was injured. The truck was speed-governed to
           | 75 mph, which I was sitting at for most of the trip. I have a
           | picture of the back of a school bus that handily passed me by
           | on highway 90 :-)
        
         | oawiejrlij wrote:
         | I'm guessing that's entirely the idea. There will be even more
         | cameras on them after yesterday, and they're trying to be
         | proactive in having the authority to arrest all of them. They
         | want the authority to arrest someone who was just out flying a
         | drone and happened to film them as they moved.
        
           | UncleEntity wrote:
           | IDK, it's probably more a matter where they don't want people
           | to be flying RPGs into their windscreens and this is the
           | first step for them to carry around frequency jammers. The
           | last time I was in Iraq they used them to stop the cellphone
           | detonated IEDs and all the convoys has one or two.
           | 
           | Coincidentally, folks won't be able to live stream their
           | encounters but I'm sure that's totally unrelated...
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Yes, because the USA is totally undistinguishable from an
             | active war zone...
        
               | twelvedogs wrote:
               | I'm not sure what your point is, are you saying ice will
               | draw a line because that tech was used in war?
               | 
               | Trump has ordered troops to be ready deploy, pretending
               | lines exist is silly
        
         | throw0101c wrote:
         | > _"In practical terms, a drone operator flying legally in a
         | public area could unknowingly enter restricted airspace if an
         | ICE convoy passes within the protected radius."_
         | 
         | "For my friends everything, for my enemies the law." -- Oscar
         | R. Benavides (Peru)
        
       | Espressosaurus wrote:
       | This is a useful measure to point the law as a weapon against
       | drone operators who may be recording what's going on by accident
       | or on purpose. Any drone made in the last few years is going to
       | be emitting its ID, which likely has been registered with the
       | pilot's name and contact information.
       | 
       | They can then after the fact come down on that person without
       | having to get facial recognition, grab cellphone beacons, or
       | other similar steps.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | It's trivial to build your own drone without a DroneID.
        
           | oawiejrlij wrote:
           | For some people
        
           | gtowey wrote:
           | And you will be labeled a terrorist for doing so, regardless
           | of intent.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | I don't mind being labeled a terrorist. Fortunately I'm not
             | in the USA. But you couldn't pay me to go there. One man's
             | terrorist...
        
               | themafia wrote:
               | > I don't mind being labeled a terrorist.
               | 
               | You should. It's not meant for your vanity and it
               | represents and extreme overreach by the government. It
               | doesn't make you "cool."
               | 
               | > But you couldn't pay me to go there.
               | 
               | Of course we could. Aside from that this mentality always
               | shocks me. There are more civilians in the US than
               | government agents. What were you expecting when you got
               | here? It's madness..
               | 
               | > One man's terrorist...
               | 
               | Is another mans freedom fighter. Sure, fine, if you want
               | a civil war. Perhaps a more civilized approach is called
               | for? Unless you particularly enjoy digging graves for
               | your friends.
        
             | Cornbilly wrote:
             | Yeah, that's been the GOP playbook for 20+ years. It's only
             | recently been used for US citizens.
        
               | kernal wrote:
               | If you do not want to be labeled a domestic terrorist
               | then the solution is rather simple - do not conspire,
               | coordinate and attack law enforcement.
        
             | mothballed wrote:
             | DHS flagged my passport on a list for literally fighting
             | against terrorist in a US sanctioned anti-terrorist
             | militia. When I returned they interrogated me as if I was a
             | terrorist.
             | 
             | So if you are against the terrorists, you are also a
             | terrorist.
        
               | roughly wrote:
               | The Americans who fought against the Francoists in the
               | Spanish civil war faced enormous scrutiny back home for
               | what was later described as "being prematurely anti-
               | fascist." The state worries about people willing to take
               | up arms to protect their ideals without being told to do
               | so (or what those ideals are).
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | This is the administration of the same FDR who stayed in
               | power for 4 consecutive terms, which imprisoned nearly
               | 150k ethnic Japanese, most of them US citizens, without
               | any due process, and which executed one of the biggest
               | power grabs by the federal administration. In a way, FDR
               | was much more impudent towards law than Trump, but he was
               | not publicly arrogant or silly, and WWII has been won
               | under his rule, so he is considered a good guy.
        
             | sheikhnbake wrote:
             | Every protester and registered democrat has been labelled a
             | domestic terrorist already in both rhetoric and policy.
        
       | CamperBob2 wrote:
       | My understanding is that DJI drones no longer enforce no-fly
       | zones. Supposedly they still warn you when entering a restricted
       | zone, but hard geofencing functionality is no longer in effect.
       | Anyone know if that's true?
        
         | arthurcolle wrote:
         | I highly doubt this
         | 
         | Edit: owner of matrice m100 and a few other DJI drones
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Matrice is a nice bit of kit. Building that kind of
           | functionality from scratch with the same weight and range is
           | very difficult.
        
             | arthurcolle wrote:
             | I was unable to ever get it to fly reliably without GPS. It
             | was probably stupid to drop $7K on drone GPUs and all kind
             | of gadgetry (6 battery bay for rapid charging, etc), but it
             | was just really really hard to pilot around in Maryland
             | (Montgomery County). I would constantly have it throw up
             | warnings and alerts, even only hovering a few feet above
             | the ground for small scale testing. I would have to disable
             | the GPS to do small scale testing, and then with GPS
             | enabled, it would straight up not allow me to pilot it.
             | When I moved to Miami, brought it down there, but I managed
             | to find an apartment right smack-dab in the MIA no-fly zone
             | as well. The smaller drone was allowed to fly though, so I
             | eventually got a small Mini 2 IIRC, which was a lot easier
             | to pilot, but I was just so disappointed in not being able
             | to use the larger scaled up version. I wanted to do
             | realtime facial recognition (not at scale, just to show
             | that commercial drones can be turned into research
             | demonstrators) on the onboard GPU (apparently just a NVDA
             | Jetson from 2017 era)
             | 
             | The irony is the M100 is genuinely great hardware - the
             | payload capacity, the SDK access, the flight time with
             | extra batteries. But DJI's geofencing treats the entire DC
             | metro like a no-go zone, which makes sense from their
             | liability perspective but means the thing is basically a
             | $7K shelf ornament unless you want to deal with LAANC
             | authorizations for every single flight.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Gah that sucks. I've looked at the hardware specs and
               | basically ended up drooling over it and realizing that my
               | homebrew stuff will never be able to compete. But the
               | optics alone on that DJI stuff is nothing short of
               | science fiction compared to what you can put together on
               | a hobbyists budget. But for $7K you can build an
               | octocopter with twice the range and twice the payload,
               | which may not be as impressive on paper but can be pretty
               | useful as well.
               | 
               | The larger agricultural drones are also amazingly
               | impressive, those I've seen up close doing real work and
               | they are so reliable it is almost boring.
               | 
               | I wonder what the reason is that yours behaves the way it
               | does, that sounds like a real challenge to find out
               | though with the closed system like that.
               | 
               | Drones that rely on GPS are very iffy as soon as the GPS
               | fails, I've seen more than one inexplicable 'fly-away'
               | happen. I've found a really neat trick to test drones
               | that are not 'known good': just find yourself a long
               | stretch of really light chain and tie it to the drone. As
               | long as it behaves: no problem. But if it tries to take
               | off by itself at some point the length of chain weighs
               | more than the drone can handle and it will stop
               | ascending. That way at least you have some kind of safety
               | measure that does not immediately impact the drone in a
               | material way as long as it is near to you.
        
               | arthurcolle wrote:
               | Since them I've acquired a 3D printer, so I've increased
               | the surface area of expensive things I can break.
               | 
               | If I can ever figure out how to repurpose some of these
               | electronics maybe for some kind of AI robot (yes, the
               | gimbal + camera optics are so nice, it feels like a sci
               | fi eyeball from 2037!) I will be back in business.
               | 
               | Some people sell exploits to "jailbreaks DJI drone
               | firmware but with current US admin I don't think it is
               | prudent to do too much "off-label" usage of this kind of
               | tech.
               | 
               | But seeing this geofencing post.... I just had too much
               | experience trying to get around these restrictions to
               | actually believe that they'd drop the geofencing,
               | especially after a consumer drone ban.
               | 
               | Thank you for the chain suggestion, that would have been
               | intelligent to do. Matter of fact, my father may have
               | made that suggestion at the time. Alas, that was a very
               | move fast and break things period of my life.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | I'm flying very experimental drones (~1 Kg only so not
               | super heavy, but still, you don't want one to land on
               | your head) in an urban environment so I really care a lot
               | about keeping things safe and within my yard. This seems
               | like it was the easiest way to get really hard safety
               | guarantees. That thing is going nowhere further than the
               | length of the tether. Building drones is fun, there is a
               | ton to learn and the constraints are crazy enough that
               | you have to be very creative.
               | 
               | If there is one resource I can point you to that may help
               | to inspire you have a look at this:
               | 
               | https://www.drehmflight.com/
               | 
               | Top engineering skills, very likable character and an
               | amazing source of hard tech knowledge.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | _I just had too much experience trying to get around
               | these restrictions to actually believe that they 'd drop
               | the geofencing, especially after a consumer drone ban._
               | 
               | DJI has got to be pretty sore about the ban. The
               | geofencing was always voluntary on their part as I
               | understand it, basically an attempt to proactively engage
               | with the US and other aviation authorities in good faith.
               | Then, when Trump blew up the truce by ordering the FCC
               | not to approve future products, they may have felt they
               | had no reason to continue to cooperate.
               | 
               | That's what I was wondering -- whether or not that
               | speculation really does describe the situation
               | accurately. If it does, it sounds like good news for you,
               | since that hardware may now be usable after a firmware
               | update. I only have a 249g first-gen Mini, myself... and
               | being out in the middle of nowhere, I don't know if it
               | ever had those restrictions to begin with.
        
         | thedougd wrote:
         | There's a checkbox in the app that implies that. I haven't had
         | a reason or way to test it yet.
         | 
         | I can confirm altitude restrictions can be turned off.
        
       | theoreticalmal wrote:
       | I don't fully understand why drone operators follow these laws.
       | Or any "no-fly" rules in general. Around an airport, it seems
       | like common sense to not fly. Can't someone just...buy/build a
       | drone and fly is surreptitiously?
        
         | Sevii wrote:
         | Potential criminal charges are enough to deter most people.
        
         | killingtime74 wrote:
         | What if you're already flying when they enter your vicinity.
         | It's pretty easy to do in a city. Also they may not announce
         | themselves until you're already violating or even after when
         | they charge you
        
           | salawat wrote:
           | Do not attribute to fascists/tin pot governments any concern
           | over law/rulemaking with judicious consideration for
           | minimizing blast radius or logistical/legal concerns for the
           | populace. At this point, they are hardcore speed running the
           | delegitinazation of the U.S. state in just about every
           | practical sense.
        
         | arter45 wrote:
         | Traditional, permanent no-fly areas tend to be enforced by the
         | drone firmware (via GPS checks), so sometimes there is also a
         | technological obstacle.
         | 
         | This is probably not the case here, but IIRC there are criminal
         | charges attached to violating NOTAMs, so there's still some
         | kind of deterrence.
        
           | gear54rus wrote:
           | What is the best hackable drone brand these days? Where you
           | can remove all this bs remote ID and GPS disobedience?
        
             | acc_297 wrote:
             | It may be simpler to build from scratch using parts from a
             | hobby store if you want a drone which cannot be tracked
             | back to you or your credit card
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | $150 will build you a 7" with a reasonably long flying
             | time, a bit more and you can do some pretty impressive
             | things. You still need a controller but those can be had
             | for cheap as well. The main issue would be hiding it for
             | pickup until after the event.
        
               | 05 wrote:
               | You're talking about bargain bin analog FPV drones? Most
               | people can't operate them and even for an experienced
               | operator it's far from the best tool for the job of
               | filming armed thugs..I mean ICE..
               | 
               | You'd need a digital system with a gimbal, and the DJI O4
               | Pro alone will run you $200+. For dual lenses with
               | different zoom levels and feed switching it's getting
               | pretty expensive very fast.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Most people can't operate drones, period.
               | 
               | FPV is a skill you can learn though and for filming armed
               | thugs I actually can't think of a better tool because it
               | allows you to fly the drone out of LOS so you can do it
               | from a relatively safe position while still getting
               | footage that matters.
               | 
               | For extra protection you could even abandon the drone and
               | record the video directly on your headset.
        
               | DennisP wrote:
               | > Most people can't operate drones, period.
               | 
               | Technically true I guess, but learning to fly a recent
               | DJI drone takes about ten minutes. You're not so much
               | flying it, as telling it what you want and letting it fly
               | itself. And the controller has a built-in tutorial with a
               | simulator.
        
               | sweetjuly wrote:
               | You don't have to fly in acro mode lol. The common
               | hobbyist drone firmwares have full support for even
               | things like autonomous GPS missions. You also don't need
               | expensive gimbal stabilized cameras; you're not making a
               | cinematic film, so you can just hot glue a 360 camera to
               | the bottom and deal with the slight oscillations.
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | Doesn't anything under 250g basically slip under the radar (not
       | literally radar). Seems like most drones they care about might
       | end up not being trackable anyway.
        
       | djoldman wrote:
       | > ALL UNMANNED ACFT ARE PROHIBITED FROM FLYING WITHIN A STAND-OFF
       | DISTANCE OF 3000FT ... LATERALLY AND 1000FT ABOVE ...
       | 
       | > TO: DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (DOD), DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY (DOE),
       | AND DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (DHS) FACILITIES AND MOBILE
       | ASSETS, INCLUDING VESSELS AND GROUND VEHICLE CONVOYS AND THEIR
       | ASSOCIATED ESCORTS, SUCH AS UNITED STATES COAST GUARD (USCG)
       | OPERATED VESSELS
       | 
       | Much more restrictive than just ICE operations.
       | 
       | See also: https://udds-faa.opendata.arcgis.com/search
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | Are you saying the FAA has a permanent and up to date list of ICE
       | operations? Because if so, that's a public list and something
       | that some might be very interested in for knowing when and where
       | ICE is operating.
       | 
       | And if they don't, there is no basis for enforcement, so we're
       | done.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | It's just an extra chilling effect. Or yet another reason to
         | shoot you and your terrist drone.
        
       | amluto wrote:
       | How is an operator supposed to recognize these "MOBILE ASSETS"?
       | For the case of ICE, ICE is reputed to try fairly hard to make it
       | challenging to recognize their mobile assets. But the NOTAM says
       | nothing about ICE per se, and there are lots of things that seem
       | like they would qualify. On multiple occasions, I suspect that I
       | have personally transported "DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY ... MOBILE
       | ASSETS", and any drone flying nearby would have seen this as ...
       | a rental car with a couple people in it. All the DOE assets would
       | have been in the trunk or maybe the back seat. Definitely assets
       | and definitely mobile, but I suppose a court would need to
       | determine whether they were MOBILE ASSETS or whether they were
       | sufficiently associated with the DOE.
       | 
       | (Also, had this been in effect and if a drone had been a part of
       | the project, which would not have been unreasonable [0], it would
       | have been really annoying if I was carrying a portable do-not-fly
       | zone and needed to get permission from the agency to take some
       | photos of the equipment I was carrying.)
       | 
       | [0] To be fair, part of this project was in a location where
       | operating a drone would have been inappropriate for reasons that
       | have nothing to do with the FAA or national security.
        
       | foxglacier wrote:
       | I wonder if these vessels, convoys, etc. are going to jam drones
       | or use some other anti-drone weapon and this NOTAM allows that by
       | saying "we can intercept or destroy it if it comes too close".
       | That way they don't have to identify how much of a threat each
       | individual drone is.
        
         | ultrarunner wrote:
         | That's when the fiber optic lines will become necessary
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | Loudly broadcasting electronic signals out of something you're
         | trying to keep hidden seems like a tactical error, but these
         | cats aren't the best trained, are they?
        
           | terminalshort wrote:
           | They aren't trying to keep hidden. They are trying to avoid
           | their murders from being filmed by drones with cameras.
           | Jamming is perfectly compatible with this goal.
        
       | dmitrygr wrote:
       | > But how will i know where such zones are ?!
       | 
       | Pilot here. This is not unprecedented. The same kind of thing
       | applies to all major sporting events. They have no-fly zones but
       | FAA provides NO official source for getting the info of when such
       | events occur and why. It is left to the pilots to find out all
       | major sporting events and stadiums around and when they have
       | events, under serious penalties. It forces pilots to care about
       | sportsball.
        
         | ls612 wrote:
         | Also relevant to this situation is that the groups this is
         | likely targeting are actively tracking ICE convoys and
         | personnel in group chats (and random civilians who they think
         | are ICE too) so the excuse of "oh woe is me how can I know
         | where not to fly" falls flat. My parents are in Minneapolis and
         | they are saying things haven't felt this dangerous since the
         | riots in 2020.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | Aren't NOTAMs published for those with specific information
         | about the TFR, including location and time window?
        
       | ottah wrote:
       | This is literally been the entire purpose of all drone
       | regulations. Hobby aircraft have never been a legitimate public
       | safety issue, but they are an issue for the state's ability to
       | hide. There is and will always be a public interest in recording
       | activity happening in public places, but a majority of drone laws
       | essentially make it impossible to legally record public events
       | from a private drone.
        
         | PlatoIsADisease wrote:
         | When I was a child I was a libertarian. I was screaming about
         | how these regulations were going to be enforced at gunpoint,
         | how this was just a way for the establishment to make money,
         | etc...
         | 
         | I'm not a libertarian anymore, but I can tell you, I was a
         | genius fortune teller.
         | 
         | My assets performed really well ignoring economic orthodoxy
         | about supposed 2% inflation.
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | So, is the FAA going to provide something like IceBlock so that
       | it's possible to obey the new regulations?
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | This is overreach. Congress didn't give them this power.
       | 
       | See Loper-Bright
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loper_Bright_Enterprises_v._Ra...
        
         | skhameneh wrote:
         | It's been overreach since the start of FAA claims on low
         | altitude space.
         | 
         | From what I understand their jurisdiction didn't begin until
         | 500 feet into the air.
         | 
         | Not only is it overreach, it's encouraging impediments on what
         | has been largely considered private property.
        
       | Bender wrote:
       | So be a polite and compliant drone operator and when you find
       | yourself in the middle of an operation because there was not an
       | actual TFR, park the drone on the edge of a building roof where
       | the camera can still operate thus the drone is silent, saving
       | power and compliant. Being parked on the edge of a roof with
       | props powered off is not flying.
       | 
       | @FAA can you tell I am still annoyed by your poorly thought out
       | highly spoofable RemoteID implementation and lack of integration
       | to ADS-B...
        
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