[HN Gopher] 2025 was the third hottest year on record
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       2025 was the third hottest year on record
        
       Author : andsoitis
       Score  : 173 points
       Date   : 2026-01-17 17:29 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | magneticnorth wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/KVTqO
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | Related: Earth is warming faster. Scientists are closing in on
       | why (https://www.economist.com/science-and-
       | technology/2024/12/16/...)
        
         | vlovich123 wrote:
         | I'm amused that the argument is that we are in a Mr Burns
         | position where different kinds of pollution we were emitting
         | was balancing out and somehow fighting pollution is the reason
         | global warming is worse? While I'm sure it has some effect, the
         | amount of co2 we pump out every year as a species is insane.
         | The effect of ship pollution mitigating that is marginal at
         | best
        
           | pitched wrote:
           | Some systems pulling the average up and some pulling down but
           | the average of them is net up. I wonder though if it would
           | have been better or worse for us if the net change ended up
           | negative (dropping temps every year) instead. Probably worse,
           | right?
        
           | mirekrusin wrote:
           | Are you sure? There is a lot of it https://www.shipmap.org
        
           | greygoo222 wrote:
           | Stratospheric aerosol injection is the leading geoengineering
           | proposal for a reason. If you have well-supported reasons to
           | be skeptical, you should share it, but just saying "idk
           | doesn't sound right to me" isn't convincing.
        
             | EA-3167 wrote:
             | The amount of aerosol you need to I next is enormous, it
             | needs to be sprayed at an altitude higher than realistic
             | means of injection are feasible, and it has to be done in a
             | way that doesn't produce so much CO2 that it defeats the
             | point.
             | 
             | Can you imagine an extant tech that can come close to doing
             | that at the required scale? I can't.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | High altitude solar drone gliders that collect low level
               | water vapor and spray it to form ice.
        
               | EA-3167 wrote:
               | It would be cheaper and more practical to talk about
               | space-based sunshields, and that's about as practical as
               | prayer. At the altitudes any realistic glider can reach
               | you'd have to use sulfur aerosols and not ice, and in
               | either case you'd need to inject gigatons per year, every
               | year because at that altitude aerosols are very short-
               | lived.
               | 
               | A realistic aircraft capable of those payloads will burn
               | avgas, no solar craft comes close to the capability. The
               | side effects such as a significant increase in acid rain,
               | are not trivial either.
               | 
               | These are fantasies of people who cannot accept the
               | reality of what we're facing.
        
             | vlovich123 wrote:
             | Even if it were meaningful, is the proposal to fight global
             | warming to keep dirty ships? That's an insane strategy.
             | 
             | More realistically, there's vested interests in existing
             | ships and shipyards not being made obsolete so any minute
             | effect is overhyped as "this is how we solve global
             | warming".
             | 
             | This reminds me of a conversation I had with an
             | acquaintance - he was convinced that anthropogenic global
             | warming was impossible because a volcanic eruption emits so
             | much CO2 and was completely unwilling to consider evidence
             | that perhaps humans emitting annually 200x more than all
             | volcanoes combined might have an effect.
        
               | estimator7292 wrote:
               | "Less bad" is still better than "worse"
               | 
               | You want to unthinkingly reject a proposal that makes
               | things better because you can't understand the third
               | order effects and refuse to accept any evidence.
        
               | Workaccount2 wrote:
               | The proposal is the spray purpose made reflective
               | aerosols high in the atmosphere.
               | 
               | We almost certainly will end up doing this, negatives be
               | damned. Even worse it's just a bandaid not a fix.
        
             | simianparrot wrote:
             | That will lead to world war.
        
         | pitched wrote:
         | https://archive.ph/jXcuJ
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Why: reduced albedo (less reflective clouds) because ships
           | don't have so much sulphur in their fuel any more.
        
       | terespuwash wrote:
       | A change in attitudes is not enough. Structural change is needed
       | to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. Currently, the population
       | is unable to achieve results.
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | Agreed.
         | 
         | Our ecological goals are to make biosphere damage scarce, but
         | our economic practices aim to make scarce things plentiful. We
         | need something to balance out the effects of scarcity-based
         | economics.
        
           | evolve2k wrote:
           | In the very fun board game 'Evolution : Climate' you "breed"
           | animals designed to survive the climate conditions on the
           | board. One strategy is to switch to breeding 'carnivores'
           | that then can feast on the creations of other players. They
           | downside tho is that once other players evolve their animals
           | to have carnivore protections (fight back, scales, protective
           | shells etc) the carnivores start to quickly starve and that
           | player must quickly change out of this eat everything
           | strategy back to a more sustainable strategy.
           | 
           | In a similar way I think what works is to push back against
           | growth only and growth at all costs approaches and back
           | practises and models and communities that are working in
           | other ways.
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | The trouble is, when I receive my paycheck, it just comes
             | as "dollars". I don't know whether my employer got them by
             | providing services to communities which are working in
             | other ways, or whether they come from more nefarious
             | behavior--and I have no way to refuse one sort but accept
             | the other.
             | 
             | The kind of community action you're describing happens, but
             | we need to find ways to help it scale.
        
         | matthewdgreen wrote:
         | The population is achieving results. Most of these results are
         | occurring in China, which has begun an unimaginably huge
         | deployment of renewables and nuclear. Europe is also making
         | progress. The rest of Asia will go next, and then (as it
         | develops industrially) so will Africa. Even parts of North
         | America will quickly electrify: for example, Canada just agreed
         | to reduce tariffs on Chinese EVs to 6% from 100%.
        
       | cryptoegorophy wrote:
       | Is there a real practical solution to this? It seems like all
       | proposed solutions in last 40 years are a drop in the ocean, or
       | just a money grab scams. Only thing that really worked for such
       | global scale is the ozone layer repair. Global warming/climate
       | change I guess we should just accept it and adapt?
        
         | hasley wrote:
         | What about poor people that live in areas in the world that
         | will become completely uninhabitable?
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | Before areas become _completely_ uninhabitable, we will see
           | areas become increasingly stressed: heat waves, more extreme
           | weather events, poorer crop yields, depleting aquifers.
           | 
           | Stress increases conflict risk. Fights for essential
           | resources (land, water, food, shelter) will break out _long_
           | before those essential resources are completely gone.
           | 
           | If we skip past the immense suffering and death part, we will
           | probably end up on a planet where national borders have been
           | redrawn by war and desperation, and a smaller population that
           | lives in more northerly climes.
        
           | coryrc wrote:
           | It's going to happen, so that's exactly what we should be
           | prepared for.
           | 
           | I'm sad all ocean megafauna are going to be extinct.
        
           | CGMthrowaway wrote:
           | Perhaps they are part of the depopulation agenda.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Our politicians are already thinking about them, which is why
           | they are cracking down on immigration and generating
           | relentless propaganda demonizing refugees and asylum seekers.
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | Whose politicians are you referring to?
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | Are you sure the whole world won't become completely
           | uninhabitable? It's not like we have a trial earth to test
           | this out on.
        
         | wat10000 wrote:
         | Technologically practical? Certainly. Kick renewables and
         | electrification into high gear. Treat it like the emergency
         | that it is.
         | 
         | Politically practical? Not a chance. It was already a major
         | struggle a decade ago when the political climate was much more
         | favorable to addressing the problem. Now, even the countries
         | that want to do something about it are going to be more
         | concerned about more immediate threats like being invaded.
         | 
         | Our best hope is that green technology quickly gets to the
         | point where it so heavily outcompetes CO2-emitting technology
         | that the latter disappears on its own. But this will take
         | longer than it should.
        
         | ltbarcly3 wrote:
         | I'm not sure what we should do, it's very hard to determine
         | what minimizes harm and maximizes benefits at a global scale.
         | It's certainly not as simple as extremists would like to
         | believe. Certainly it would be much (MUCH) less risky to slow
         | warming as much as possible and maintain constant or slowly
         | reducing CO2 levels.
         | 
         | I think from the standpoint of predicting what will happen, my
         | best guess is that people will use fossil fuels until it is
         | economically not viable to do so. If you want hasten it at an
         | individual level, buy solar panels and have your house
         | disconnected from the grid until fees you pay no longer
         | subsidize fossil fuels. Frown at people and refuse to give them
         | positive social cues when they buy a car that isn't electric.
         | Instead of "oh nice car" just say "it would be so cool if they
         | had a plugin version!". Support electrification of things like
         | heat and water heating so long as it can be powered by non-
         | fossil sources.
         | 
         | In the long run I think solar power, effective battery
         | technology, and the peaking of the global population combine to
         | cause fossil fuel usage to reduce over the next 100 years or so
         | until CO2 levels stabilize. Lots of large CO2 emitters are
         | already leveling off - the output is too high to sustain but at
         | least it's no longer increasing year over year - such as from
         | cement production.
         | 
         | Honestly it's not much but that's what you can do, larger
         | social movements and political action do not work when
         | someone's decision is whether to spend $800 a month or $100 a
         | month to heat their house. Anyone who says it does should buy a
         | thermometer, but instead they will get a plane ticket to the
         | next big city to run around in the street yelling at police
         | (literally the only people paid to not care about your slogans)
         | while nobody really notices.
        
           | tantivy wrote:
           | Electric cars are the savior of the auto industry, not of the
           | climate. It needs to become viable for most people to get
           | around without cars at all. The intensity of their resource
           | consumption, both for manufacture and for infrastructure,
           | independent of their fuel source, cannot scale up for the
           | world population.
        
             | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
             | > Electric cars are the savior of the auto industry
             | 
             | You should check with Ford on that. 19B write off this year
        
           | Projectiboga wrote:
           | Were you aware that the last time the planet was estimated to
           | have co2 levels over 420ppm the global temperature was 10
           | degrees Celsius warmer overall? This is the global equilvant
           | of being locked in a car in a sunlit parking lot.
        
           | ivan_gammel wrote:
           | If we are in overshoot scenario even reducing emissions may
           | not be enough. There are warming gases currently trapped in
           | permafrost, the natural carbon storage capacity is very
           | dynamic, so global warming may target new (worse) equilibrium
           | beyond what we think we can achieve in best case scenario.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | As with most difficult problems, this is a messy political
         | problem, not a technical one. There is zero chance we avoid
         | 1.5C gain. The best you can do is make life decisions for
         | yourself to make your lifetime as comfortable for you as you
         | can, assuming it will happen. I started doing that 5 years ago.
        
         | chickenimprint wrote:
         | The real practical solutions are trivial, the politics are not.
         | It's a collective action problem, where the US is one of the
         | actors.
        
           | shrubby wrote:
           | Yup.
           | 
           | Plenty of solutions, but politicians will never make it
           | happen.
           | 
           | We calculated that capping personal emissions (mostly doable
           | via peer pressure should we get this moving as normal people)
           | to some top 1 percent 25 metric carbon ton and going plant
           | based would get us net-zero while additionally getting rid of
           | the zillionaire problem and adding extra 50-100 gigaton
           | rewilding effect to the table.
           | 
           | With no bigger than marginal effect on anyone's QOL.
           | 
           | But we're SOL as the propaganda machines of the zillionaires
           | keep dividing normal people to fake dichotomies.
        
             | chickenimprint wrote:
             | No, there's really just a few select politicians standing
             | in the way. Governments around the world have implemented
             | tons of policies to attempt to address the crisis, but
             | unless every country participates, it's economically
             | suicidal. Carbon-intensive industries can simply move to
             | the US, strengthening them, while those countries
             | attempting to carry the burden of preventing climate change
             | will be equally affected by looming disasters.
        
               | shrubby wrote:
               | The same root cause everywhere . The zillionaires
               | threatening to flee from the taxes. Annex Greenlands,
               | Ukraines...
               | 
               | Taking children to pedo islands.
               | 
               | Once we'll wake up to the fact that almost every human
               | becomes corrupt when treated with enough power we'll grok
               | this.
               | 
               | And provide mental health services to the zillionaires
               | and also they'll be happier.
               | 
               | Nobody wants the future we're getting.
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Yes, we got to adapt, we won't cool it down and "repair" what
         | is broken.
         | 
         | However we can slow down the effects and try to stop the
         | effects. So it's "only" 1.5deg or whatever, not 3deg, 5deg or
         | 10deg. And if we raise average by 10deg at least not by the
         | years 2100, but 2200 to give time to adapt.
         | 
         | "Adapting" means resettling people, restructuring agriculture
         | and food production, etc.
         | 
         | (All numbers are quite arbitrary picks, just as any goal one
         | tried to set before)
        
         | mempko wrote:
         | Look at the degrowth movement. There are solutions but nobody,
         | especially the leadership, are going to like them.
        
           | CGMthrowaway wrote:
           | Nobody has to "like" them. The centralized command and
           | control structure is mostly in place to just force them down
           | everyone's throats. Once we have centralized digital currency
           | it will be a foregone conclusion
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | How will a centralized digital currency affect whether I
             | decide to burn carbon fuels? If it gets obnoxious enough I
             | can just use a different currency instead.
        
               | CGMthrowaway wrote:
               | That is the point...you can't
        
             | tmnvix wrote:
             | If only. Given how power and influence works currently, I
             | would guess that those that have real control over these
             | currencies would most likely use that power as they do now
             | - to further their exploitation and pillaging of the earth
             | with environmental considerations coming a distant second
             | (or third, fourth, whatever...)
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | There are a lot of money scams out there to be sure.
         | 
         | It's unlikely that something like carbon capture will ever
         | significantly reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere. It's just too
         | energy intensive.
         | 
         | But there are a lot of practical solutions to significantly
         | curb emissions that mostly just require regulations and taxes.
         | 
         | Things like building out rail transport. Heavily taxing air
         | travel. Taxing all forms of carbon emission (fuel taxes would
         | be pretty effective). Subsidizing non-co2 emissions, pushing
         | for electrification when possible and power generation which
         | uses non-CO2 emission. Stop wasteful pipedreams like "clean
         | coal". Force data centers to be better citizens. For example,
         | make them buy the battery/solar systems to offset their
         | consumption. Make them participate in district heating schemes.
         | 
         | There's also some hope that even without intervention some of
         | this will happen somewhat naturally. Solar and battery is
         | already very cheap. Both are causing changes in the shipping
         | and transit equations.
        
         | parineum wrote:
         | I heard about this[1] recently, essentially spurring a massive
         | plankton bloom to capture carbon where it ends up on the sea
         | floor and becomes future oil deposits in a few millenia.
         | 
         | The nice thing about it is that it doesn't require global
         | cooperation.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.onepercentbrighter.com/p/the-no-bullshit-way-
         | to-...
         | 
         | Edit: I should probably link where I heard about it to give
         | credit to someone who deserves it
         | 
         | https://uncomfortableconversations.substack.com/p/the-climat...
        
           | tmnvix wrote:
           | I was under the impression that there have been multiple
           | large extinction events in the past caused by excessive
           | anaerobic decomposition underwater that led to the oceans
           | becoming swamps and giving off nasty toxic gasses.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > is the ozone layer repair.
         | 
         | Which was, stop using CFCs, and stop venting them into the
         | atmosphere to "dispose" of them. We also stopped lighting
         | rivers on fire for mostly the same reasons, stop dumping
         | industrial waste in them.
         | 
         | > I guess we should just accept it and adapt?
         | 
         | Ocean shipping produces more pollution than most countries.
         | There are only like 5 countries that produce more carbon than
         | the worldwide shipping fleet. If they cared then "cheap crap
         | from China" wouldn't exist.
         | 
         | It's a scam. They want to monopolize the economy and they're
         | using your environmental consciousness as the wedge to push you
         | against your own best interests.
        
           | chickenimprint wrote:
           | Ocean freight accounts for 2-3% of global emissions. It is
           | orders of magnitude more efficient and clean than air or road
           | freight per ton-kilometer. It's twice as efficient as rail.
           | The ability to efficiently transport goods enables your
           | current standard of living. A world economy without ocean
           | freight would be minuscule and of course far more polluting,
           | without even considering land use.
        
         | tmnvix wrote:
         | Drive less.
         | 
         | CO2 output per person in the US (all sources including
         | industry, etc): ~13-14,000kg
         | 
         | Average distance driven per year per capita in the US:
         | ~20,000km
         | 
         | Average CO2 output of current private vehicle fleet: ~250g/km
         | 
         | Therefore, over one third of total CO2 output per person is
         | personal vehicle use. Considering only CO2 output due to
         | personal choices driving has to be well over half.
         | 
         | Most people don't - or refuse - to consider the obvious choice
         | to take personal responsibility. Drive less.
        
           | bfrog wrote:
           | I guess returning to the office isn't so great. Pointy hair
           | bosses rage everywhere.
           | 
           | But beyond driving less, surely eating further down the
           | foodchain helps as well. Plants and shellfish are efficient.
           | Cows are not. Eat fewer burgers and a few more lentils and
           | mussels. Unless you are RFK Jr then of course please eat lots
           | and lots of fatty cow, tallow, butter. Go full on Atkins
           | please and follow right behind him.
        
           | loloquwowndueo wrote:
           | This also means two thirds of emissions are not due to
           | vehicular emissions. Let's tackle that first, more bang for
           | the buck?
           | 
           | Also - does that per capita figure include cargo? If so, how
           | much? Does it matter if random individual takes personal
           | Responsibility and stops driving when all those long haul
           | trucks will still be on the road?
        
             | tmnvix wrote:
             | My point is that in terms of personal responsibility
             | nothing comes remotely close to driving but a vanishingly
             | small proportion of people are willing to consider this.
        
               | melling wrote:
               | A few decades ago we explained that personal
               | responsibility isn't the solution.
               | 
               | Please catch up. Why we're having a conversation from the
               | year 2000 now is beyond me.
               | 
               | I also suggest reviewing the "nuclear isn't part of the
               | solution. Besides it takes a decade" discussion.
        
               | tmnvix wrote:
               | How does cultural change happen?
               | 
               | I would say it's often because people see individual
               | examples in action. Some people follow those examples.
               | Then more do. You are more influential than you think.
        
               | mmooss wrote:
               | > A few decades ago we explained that personal
               | responsibility isn't the solution.
               | 
               | I've never seen that argued persuasively. All the
               | arguments I've seen are the usual hopelessness for
               | democracy, lack of agency, and victimhood.
               | 
               | Lots of people acting in the same way is the foundation
               | of democracy.
        
               | mmooss wrote:
               | What I've read is that diet can do more, though of course
               | it depends on what you currently eat and your current
               | transportation.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | Flying is much higher than driving.
        
           | fullstackchris wrote:
           | love how a completely valid point gets downvoted becuase the
           | average person refuses to believe they are part of the
           | problem "no! its those big corporations and airline industry!
           | my daily commute has no input at all!"
           | 
           | and this is why we'll never solve the problem
        
           | Mawr wrote:
           | Driving isn't realistically a personal choice. Roadways
           | designed for cars extend from every single point in the
           | country to every other. The support for alternative methods
           | of transportation varies greatly by area, but is generally
           | poor.
           | 
           | Riding a bike or taking the bus is objectively the worse
           | option for most people. That's not personal choice, that's
           | policy.
           | 
           | Reversing course for a car-culture country like the US would
           | take 50+ years. If it's even possible, which I personally
           | don't think it is -- the US is too far gone.
        
             | tmnvix wrote:
             | To an extent I agree with you. Some places and lifestyles
             | (e.g. means of earning a living) don't make cutting back on
             | driving a viable choice.
             | 
             | However, these things can and do change (introduction of
             | public transport and saner planning allowing local shops
             | and the possibility for children get to and from school
             | autonomously for example).
             | 
             | One problem as I see it is that many people that don't have
             | a viable choice other than driving everywhere are
             | politically opposed to structural change. Adopting this
             | political point of view is also a personal choice.
        
         | f_allwein wrote:
         | Don't live like a rich person in a developed country - they're
         | the only ones whose co2 footprints are too high.
        
         | oezi wrote:
         | The real solution is pricing the true cost of the externalities
         | fairly and globally.
         | 
         | Everything which isn't sustainable must he taxed to the degree
         | to offset the damage. We know well that economic incentives
         | work best and that markets are efficient to achieve optimal
         | solutions.
         | 
         | The core issue is just game theory to coordinate globally all
         | players to prevent free riding.
        
       | doktor2un wrote:
       | I'd love to see the raw data.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | https://cds.climate.copernicus.eu/datasets
        
           | doktor2un wrote:
           | No raw data there just post processed data. Give me the raw
           | data.
        
             | ori_b wrote:
             | Petabytes of it around. Here's a small sunset:
             | https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/
             | 
             | Would you like more, or do you plan on analyzing the first
             | few petabytes first?
        
               | tonymet wrote:
               | He means the original recordings. There were no digital
               | recordings in 1880. Different apparatus, different
               | methods. That's the point
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | They can speak for themselves, you and I don't really
               | know what they want, or what they think counts as "raw"
               | data.
        
               | ori_b wrote:
               | Ah, so a painfully obvious attempt at moving goalposts
               | and showering people with bullshit.
        
             | magicalhippo wrote:
             | If you want the raw data, you'll have to go dig in the
             | archives to find the log books and card decks.
             | 
             | This[1] paper goes into some detail on how the digital
             | records were constructed from the log books, card decks and
             | such. This[2] paper deals with an update of those digital
             | records, including new digitization efforts. You can
             | download the raw digital data from ICOADS here[3].
             | 
             | [1]: https://doi.org/10.1175/1520-0477(1987)068%3C1239:ACOA
             | DS%3E2... _A Comprehensive Ocean-Atmosphere Data Set_
             | (available on the hub of science)
             | 
             | [2]: https://doi.org/10.1002/joc.4775 _ICOADS Release 3.0:
             | a major update to the historical marine climate record_
             | (open access)
             | 
             | [3]: https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/data/international-
             | comprehensive-o...
        
         | Certhas wrote:
         | There are tons of raw data available freely and publicly. In my
         | estimation, there is no comparable scientific discipline with a
         | better curated data environment.
         | 
         | What exact raw data would you want? I am sure ChatGPT can throw
         | together some python that will download the relevant data.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | You are capable of operating Google, right?
        
         | foltik wrote:
         | Here's a raw table in .txt format from NASA
         | 
         | https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/graph_data/Global_...
        
           | doktor2un wrote:
           | That's useless.
        
             | foltik wrote:
             | Hah. Shall I present it to you on a silver platter then?
             | 
             | If you read the NASA page, they explicitly cite GHCNd, a
             | raw surface temperature and precipitation dataset that goes
             | back quite far. There's many other similar datasets you can
             | find if you're willing to look.
             | 
             | Check out the readme for the csv format description, and
             | /by-year for the raw rows:
             | 
             | https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/pub/data/ghcn/daily/
        
               | genewitch wrote:
               | picked four stations at random[0] and it's just precip
               | numbers, no temps, no humidity, no insolation, etc.
               | 
               | are you sure you linked what you think you linked?
               | 
               | [0] /by-station and then unclutched my scroll wheel and
               | spun it for arbitrary amount of time, re-engaged clutch
               | and clicked what was under the cursor. repeated 3 more
               | times. i did a fifth, where the one i was looking at was
               | identical to the fourth one, but had a 1 in the least
               | significant portion of the station ID instead of a 4, in
               | case it was like, "4" is precip, "1" is temps, and i
               | happened to click "4" 4 times in a row.
        
               | foltik wrote:
               | Quite a scientific data analysis you've done there. NASA
               | must be completely mistaken!
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | That's not the raw data. The original recordings were made by
           | merchants on parchment. They measured the volume of water in
           | a wooden box, to set the buoyancy for their loads
        
             | foltik wrote:
             | What are you even talking about. They had weather stations
             | with mercury thermometers and wrote down temperatures in a
             | logbook.
        
               | magicalhippo wrote:
               | For the interested, here[1] is an article on an attempt
               | to recreate and verify measurements made during the HMS
               | Challenger expedition in the 1870s.
               | 
               | It was recently done so the full results aren't out, but
               | one aspect they noted was that the traditionally-created
               | hemp rope stretched about 10% so temperatures were taken
               | at slightly deeper depths than expected. This can be used
               | to calibrate the data from HMS Challenger.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.oneoceanexpedition.com/article/checked-1
               | 50-year-...
        
         | mempko wrote:
         | And what will you do with the raw data? Are you trained in
         | processing and interpreting it? How good is your math?
        
           | genewitch wrote:
           | you're right this is much to complicated and important for
           | anyone to understand. just take our word for it that we have
           | to make things more expensive, raise taxes, and restrict
           | freedoms to fix it.
        
             | foltik wrote:
             | Right, if only scientists who understood it would publish
             | some sort of document explaining their methods and citing
             | the raw sources.
             | 
             | > we have to make things more expensive, raise taxes, and
             | restrict freedoms to fix it
             | 
             | Aha, right on cue the mask slips off. Desperately trying to
             | justify your own selfishness in the name of "freedom".
        
             | mempko wrote:
             | If you are serious about this, you know full well the data
             | is out there. So stop asking for it and just go get it, go
             | write some code and process it, then come back here and
             | report your results.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | Climate deniers are perfectly trained for finding some weak
           | spots in any data anytime they want. It would be better for
           | them to be trained enough to show at least any links to any
           | studies though. It is so hard to convince a climate denier to
           | give at least one climate-denying source for the sake of
           | experiencing some laugher together.
        
       | vaylian wrote:
       | Whenever you hear a politician say "carbon neutral by 2050",
       | interrupt them. The real goal is to avoid getting too far over
       | 1.5 degrees warming. We need to avoid reaching tipping points
       | that will cause non-recoverable damage to the earth system. The
       | year 2050 is meaningless. Actual global average temperatures is
       | what should be measured.
        
         | threethirtytwo wrote:
         | A couple years back I saw articles about how we're basically
         | less than a year from the tipping point.
         | 
         | Then nothing.
         | 
         | My guess is we passed the tipping point. It's inevitable by
         | now.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | Berkeley Earth berkeleyearth.org > home > global temperature
           | report for 2023 Global Temperature Report for 2023 - Berkeley
           | Earth
           | 
           | February 29, 2024 - 2023 was the warmest year on Earth since
           | direct observations began, and the first year to exceed 1.5
           | degC above our 1850-1900 average. ...
        
         | Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote:
         | 2050 is not meaningless. Its close enough to feel like its
         | achievable but far enough away that you can put off immediate
         | action and still feel there is time to get it done. Reminds of
         | the lyrics of the spirit of the west song:
         | 
         | It's a ways outside of town
         | 
         | But the distance has its uses
         | 
         | Close enough to make the effort
         | 
         | Far enough to make excuses.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZXgl5KxUQY
        
           | shrubby wrote:
           | https://theshovel.com.au/2021/10/26/man-announces-he-will-
           | qu...
           | 
           | This.
        
         | Faaak wrote:
         | Even if we stop all emissions right now, we'll exceed the 1.5C
         | target, so...
        
           | agentultra wrote:
           | Every point of a degree we can mitigate will matter a lot.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | The nice thing with climate change is that it can always get
           | worse !
           | 
           | If we miss the 1.5 target then the next target is 1.51. And
           | so on.
        
           | b00ty4breakfast wrote:
           | The Doomerist paralysis has been engineered by the folks who
           | look to benefit the most from inaction, mainly the fossil
           | fuel and related industries.
           | 
           | To not even attempt to head for the lifeboats is suicide.
        
             | networkadmin wrote:
             | Exactly what is it about CO2, a plant food, that scares you
             | so much? You do realize that green plants react to
             | increased CO2 percentage with stronger growth?
             | 
             | You're the one calling _me_ a  "doomer"?
        
               | WaxProlix wrote:
               | Plants and humans both love water, but you can still
               | drown.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > We need to avoid reaching tipping points that will cause non-
         | recoverable damage to the earth system.
         | 
         | Then I'd be far more worried about nuclear war than minor
         | temperature excursions. Aside from that "non recoverable"
         | damage happens every day. What do you think mining is?
         | 
         | > Actual global average temperatures is what should be
         | measured.
         | 
         | On average it was 10 degrees Fahrenheit cooler last year than
         | it was the previous where I live in northern CA.
        
           | misnome wrote:
           | Congratulations, you know the local weather
        
             | simianparrot wrote:
             | Local weather is what matters to individuals. So is access
             | to affordable energy.
             | 
             | You cannot coerce someone to ignore their local weather and
             | sabotage access to affordable energy because of some global
             | average. It's a losing battle that's fundamentally misled.
        
               | oezi wrote:
               | You have to coerce the individual to follow the strategic
               | direction despite tactical disadvantages. This is what
               | leadership means.
               | 
               | If we all individually spend more money to accommodate
               | the effects of climate change than their causes, then we
               | are wasting enormous economic resources.
        
               | simianparrot wrote:
               | Sure, but local is a radius. There's my local, then
               | there's my region's local, then there's my country's
               | local. As wonderful as globalism sounds on paper, if
               | saving the global average leads to a drought or a flood
               | for another country, or another region, then you are
               | trying to convince others of giving up a lot for no
               | tangible relevant gain.
        
         | cco wrote:
         | You're still hearing politicians talk about climate change?
         | This could be an American bubble but I haven't heard talk of
         | climate change from US politicians, or the other global leaders
         | that filter through our news cycle, since 2023.
        
           | apublicfrog wrote:
           | Of course. Here's the Australian PM 4 months ago:
           | 
           | https://www.pm.gov.au/media/setting-
           | australias-2035-climate-...
           | 
           | Here's the NZ PM last month:
           | 
           | https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-
           | ne...
           | 
           | I would imagine it's a relevant political football in most
           | first world countries. I avoid American news, but the bits I
           | see make me think it's probably still focused on culture war
           | garbage.
        
         | Freedom2 wrote:
         | I don't think it's that easy to interrupt politicians,
         | especially these days as more and more protections are
         | justifiably given to them.
         | 
         | Do you have an example where you personally interrupted a
         | politician effectively?
        
         | deadbabe wrote:
         | That goal is no longer possible.
        
           | vaylian wrote:
           | I agree that staying below 1.5degC is extremely unlikely at
           | this point. But it is still worthwhile to try to keep it
           | under 1.6degC.
        
       | linohh wrote:
       | Third hottest year on record, so far.
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | the article is particularly dodgy. "On record" is a crime. They
         | hint at it being satellite recordings since the 1970s.
         | 
         | The Economist used to be a good publication until McElthwaite
         | left for Bloomberg about 10-12 years ago.
        
           | foltik wrote:
           | This isn't some big conspiracy. "On record" is since
           | recordkeeping began in 1880.
           | 
           | https://science.nasa.gov/earth/explore/earth-
           | indicators/glob...
        
             | tonymet wrote:
             | Ok, so why not just be specific? "On record" usually means
             | since we started recording history , at least 5k years ago.
             | 
             | And have you looked into the records? satellite surface
             | temps and high resolution recording have not been around
             | for very long. 1880 methods were very crude and narrowly
             | scoped.
        
               | genewitch wrote:
               | and scientists edit the historical temperatures because
               | of, and i hope you can see my eyeroll here "anomalous
               | readings" - but they're overwhelmingly erroneous in only
               | one direction. that's strange.
        
               | NicuCalcea wrote:
               | > "On record" usually means since we started recording
               | history , at least 5k years ago.
               | 
               | I'm a journalist who has published "highest/lowest on
               | record" statistics tens, if not hundreds of times, and
               | I've never heard of anyone thinking it means "since
               | Herodotus" or anything like that.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Uhm obviously. It would be difficult to have a year from the
         | future on record wouldn't it?
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Because "3rd hottest year since the 1970s" didn't get as many
       | clicks.
        
         | foltik wrote:
         | Uh, no, it's the 3rd hottest year since 1880. You can click
         | "Download Data" and look the table yourself.
         | 
         | https://science.nasa.gov/earth/explore/earth-indicators/glob...
        
       | gwbrooks wrote:
       | I can't think of a single time in history that humanity responded
       | to a threat in a fully coordinated manner. Maybe this is the
       | first time, but the incentive stack from the individual voter all
       | the way up to geopolitical grand strategy argues against it.
       | 
       | Trying to tell poor nations to remain poor -- or telling rich
       | nations to consume less -- is a losing game. There's evidence
       | that as societies get richer, their populations demand cleaner
       | air, water, etc. And, as another commenter mentioned, a realistic
       | hope is that the whole green-tech stack matures to the point
       | where it can compete on price.
       | 
       | We'll either make lower-carbon/lower-warming solutions work at
       | near-market rates, in a way that allows personal and national
       | economies to grow, or it'll just be talk for the next 50 years as
       | well.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Banning CFCs. But that didn't require giving anything up really
         | so it was an easier sell.
        
       | cramforloin wrote:
       | Oh, look, another left wing article about how we're all gonna
       | burn up while the liberal elites jet around and gobble up all the
       | coastal real estate.
        
       | dust42 wrote:
       | 30 years ago I attended a university lecture in an economics
       | class and the professor spoke about the economic consequences of
       | global warming - some places will be better off and plenty of
       | places will be worse off. There will be water shortages in some
       | places, while heavy rainfall in others. He presented it as a
       | given fact that the global warming is coming - and pretty much
       | the whole audience was shocked. Finally someone asked if he
       | really thinks that it is unavoidable. And his answer was yes,
       | that is human nature. As long as fossil fuels are there and cheap
       | to explore someone will use them.
       | 
       | 30 years later it looks like he was right.
       | 
       | Edit: the IPCC was founded in 1988 thus people started in the
       | 70ies to understand that there will be a problem but there was a
       | very long period of inactivity. Personally I am quite optimistic
       | that fusion will become commercially available before 2040.
       | 
       | And dear downvoters, dont shoot the messenger.
        
       | linuxhansl wrote:
       | With 2024 and 2023 being 2nd and 1st resp. The last 11 years were
       | the hottest 11 in recorded history. I don't know how more
       | evidence we need. We are standing on the train tracks, the train
       | is coming, and many of us say "Oh just look over there instead,
       | we'll be fine."
       | 
       | Meanwhile - even if you do not care about climate - there is so
       | much money to make with renewables (production, storage,
       | mobility, etc). China and much of the rest of the world are
       | charging ahead, while the US wants to be a petrol state.
        
         | RickJWagner wrote:
         | China emits 34% of the world's total carbon emissions, the USA
         | produces 12%.
         | 
         | Since 2000, China has increased emissions by 262%. The USA has
         | decreased emissions by 21%.
         | 
         | If that's how China is charging ahead, we don't need it.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
        
           | cabirum wrote:
           | Who are "we"? China population is 4 times the US, with carbon
           | emissions just 3 times greater, making them produce less
           | carbon per capita.
        
           | ainiriand wrote:
           | I am still confused why this argument is still valid to
           | anyone... Not only China has 4 times more population than the
           | US, but they produce all the stuff that the US buys, so if
           | the US had to produce all that stuff on their own they would
           | emit so much more carbon.
        
             | RickJWagner wrote:
             | The US has no new coal plants under construction.
             | 
             | 2024 had the highest number of Chinese plants in a decade.
        
               | WaxProlix wrote:
               | They're adding capacity, not increasing utilization. Many
               | new plants are smaller, more grid-friendly, more-
               | efficient replacements for aging plants.
               | 
               | Coal Utilization growth in China is negative and has been
               | for years.
        
         | rmitsch wrote:
         | There's no amount of evidence that'll help. We have had a
         | sufficient amount of that for a long while. It's entrenched
         | economic interests fostering a lack of political will that's
         | keeping us from taking this seriously.
        
           | networkadmin wrote:
           | Actually the whole thing is a fraud.
        
       | miroljub wrote:
       | Yeah, we definitely need to put more weather stations in urban
       | areas and remove rural ones. That's how we can reach first place
       | every year. Being number 3 is disappointing.
        
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