[HN Gopher] STFU
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       STFU
        
       Author : tanelpoder
       Score  : 967 points
       Date   : 2026-01-16 17:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | What's old is new again!
       | 
       | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japanese-researchers-make-speec...
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Years ago, I wanted to build this exact concept into a
         | smartphone so I could just toggle it on whenever I needed to
         | end an interminably long phone conversation.
         | 
         | It's basically the "Chinese food" Seinfeld gag.
        
         | QuantumNomad_ wrote:
         | > In general, human speech is jammed by giving back to the
         | speakers their own utterances at a delay of a few hundred
         | milliseconds
         | 
         | That's what I seemed to remember also.
         | 
         | I think 2 seconds like in the OP link is too long delay to work
         | as actual jamming.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | version 2.0 - why not both? one for noise-cancelling, one for
           | social-cancelling.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | See also:
         | 
         | https://improbable.com/2021/09/03/2012-japanese-ig-nobel-pri...
        
         | zahlman wrote:
         | Similar, but OP is about making people socially conscious of
         | the noise they're producing (not through speech), while this
         | "jamming" technique actually (at least theoretically)
         | interferes with the cognitive process of choosing and forming
         | words.
        
       | jimmiles wrote:
       | At my old job I had a phone that had IR remote capability. I'd
       | turn off or mute the blaring TVs in our break rooms. Good times.
        
         | cweagans wrote:
         | There used to be a commercially-made tv-b-gone device. Not sure
         | if it's made anymore, but there's a DIY kit that appears to do
         | the same thing: https://www.adafruit.com/product/73
         | 
         | I used to carry one with me everywhere (it was small enough to
         | fit on a keychain). One night at a sports bar, I showed it to a
         | friend. Before I could stop him, he pushed the button and every
         | TV in the place went black, right in the middle of some PPV
         | sports event. Anyway, he bought one on the spot.
        
           | ErroneousBosh wrote:
           | There was a guy who sold a chip for that which you fitted to
           | a car keyfob. In the olden days of the late 80s, Valeo used a
           | pretty insecure not-rolling-code infrared thing for central
           | locking systems.
           | 
           | Anyway you'd get a handful of old Rover, Peugeot, Renault, or
           | Citroen (and a bunch of others) fobs from the scrapyard and
           | fit this pre-programmed PIC microcontroller, and when you
           | pressed the button it would cycle through a bunch of volume
           | down, mute, and power off commands for most common brands of
           | TV.
           | 
           | However the real genius one - and it was about 20 quid - was
           | this. Remember Furbies? They would chatter away to each
           | other, using infrared to communicate so they'd go in sync.
           | Well, this one that transmitted the "GO TO SLEEP RIGHT NOW"
           | command to any Furby in the room. Relatively expensive but
           | worth it.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > There used to be a commercially-made tv-b-gone device.
           | 
           | Not sure about that one either but its functionality has been
           | cloned for the Flipper Zero [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://blog.flipper.net/infrared/
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | The Woz would be so proud
        
           | markvdb wrote:
           | The original TV-B-Gone [0][1] was designed by the legendary
           | Mitch Altman [2].
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV-B-Gone
           | 
           | [1] https://www.tvbgone.com/
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman
        
           | achairapart wrote:
           | When iPhones still had the headphone port, a friend of mine
           | soldered a IR led on top of a minijack, something like this:
           | 
           | https://www.rtfms.com/wp-content/rtfms-com/LED-pinout.png
           | 
           | Then, with some special app, or even just playing some
           | audiofiles -- I don't remember -- he'd do the same thing as
           | the device above.
        
             | mystifyingpoi wrote:
             | Wow, this is clever. Yeah, the headphone out can push out a
             | signal like 1 volt at low current, but this is likely
             | enough for the IR LED to "light up". I really like this
             | idea.
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | https://idiallo.com/blog/teaching-my-neighbor-to-keep-the-vo...
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | There's a TV-BE-GONE app for Bruce on the CardPuter and I think
         | one for the Flipper Zero as wells. It will cycle through dozens
         | of codes to power off the TV. It's been fun to turn off random
         | TVs, though I don't do it much because I don't want to be too
         | much of a douche.
        
       | magicmicah85 wrote:
       | So now there is two obnoxious people blaring sound? If you didn't
       | have the courage to speak up, how are you going to have the
       | courage to disrupt them and others?
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | You don't have to figure out what to say back to the person. It
         | is hearing their own self that makes them want to STFU.
         | Apparently hearing their voice is just as annoying to them as
         | it is to us?
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | Does it really take "courage" to speak up in cases like this?
         | If anything, it's just as insulting to point out to an adult
         | that playing loud audio in a crowded public place is
         | inappropriate, as if they didn't know that!
        
           | socalgal2 wrote:
           | Yes, it does take courage, the person doing it is likely to
           | react poorly and it could easily escalate into a physical
           | altercation.
           | 
           | for me, the worst offenders are men watching sports on public
           | transportation or restaurants. I hate it, but I think
           | different cultures have different norms.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | It takes a bit of experience and tact. Saying "excuse me,
             | would you mind turning down your phone a bit, please" as an
             | opening request would not likely be confrontational
             | especially in someplace like an airport. Few people are
             | going to be itchy to start a fight over something like that
             | in a place full of cameras, witnesses, security people, and
             | with fairly limited exits.
        
           | michaelsshaw wrote:
           | It can create an awkward situation which a lot of people are
           | averse to. For example, I wouldn't speak up on other forms of
           | public transport, but in airports in particular I go on a
           | warpath.
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | That person is already ignoring obvious social conventions.
           | People don't want to know which other shitty behaviours they
           | have in store.
        
         | jama211 wrote:
         | Think it through just a tiny bit more. It's more socially
         | acceptable to be angry back at someone who is confronting you
         | directly than someone who may or may not be making an example
         | of you but in a passive way. Therefore it's less likely the
         | other individual will confront you back, or perhaps more
         | importantly it would make them look more unreasonable for doing
         | so.
         | 
         | Social pressure is a real thing and it affects both behaviour
         | and outcomes, it'd be silly to ignore that.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | > It's more socially acceptable to be angry back at someone
           | who is confronting you directly than someone who may or may
           | not be making an example of you but in a passive way.
           | 
           | I actually agree with this. And similarly, I'd argue that
           | it's more socially acceptable to use this audio repeater than
           | to "nicely" confront someone who is so brazenly violating
           | social norms.
        
           | magicmicah85 wrote:
           | The people who react angrily to someone asking them to keep
           | their noise down are very likely the same people who react
           | angrily to someone interrupting their call or entertainment
           | with loud noises, especially noises that just repeat what
           | they're saying or watching. I agree social pressure is a real
           | thing, but if you don't have the courage to ask them to
           | kindly keep the volume down, how would you have the courage
           | to do this?
        
         | primitivesuave wrote:
         | The fact that this occurred in Bombay is important context. In
         | India, the culture amongst older people is to have a clear
         | sense of where you fit in the hierarchy. You might be verbally
         | abusive to those who you consider below you, but you will
         | remain silent and deferent to those who are considered
         | economically/socially superior. This manifests as a certain
         | class of people who have never been called out on any of their
         | obnoxious behavior, because their economic/social status has
         | shielded them from criticism for their entire lives. Meanwhile
         | a majority of society is perfectly accustomed to being verbally
         | abused, to the point where someone like me saying "please" and
         | "thank you" makes it clear that I am of the Indian diaspora.
         | 
         | By the way, I've noticed that the younger crowd in India leans
         | much more toward egalitarianism and tends to reject bizarre
         | social constructs like caste. The fact that a young guy also
         | thought of this solution speaks to their ingenuity as well.
        
       | ahupp wrote:
       | Hilarious. When working on a virtual reality VOIP product,
       | someone added a test mode that played back your own speech with a
       | delay. It was like part of your brain shut off, was a
       | surprisingly strong effect.
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | I'm old enough to remember when cell phones were primarily used
         | for voice calls. Sometimes you'd hear yourself when you were
         | trying to talk to someone, and it was infuriating. You'd have
         | to hang up and call back, if the call was going to go on any
         | length of time.
        
           | einsteinx2 wrote:
           | I've had this happen on modern video calls at work a few
           | times as well, same solution too.
        
       | kittikitti wrote:
       | I think it's worse that you have to behave maliciously. They have
       | a right to make sound in public places. I'm not one of those
       | people who plays stuff on full volume in public places but
       | sometimes I am a bit noisy. I think back to when I'm having fun
       | and it often involves a bunch of noise. Society is becoming way
       | too intolerant and conformist.
        
         | michaelsshaw wrote:
         | Airports aren't outside and they have a natural tendency to
         | irritate people just by nature of existing. They aren't nice
         | places and there's no need to make it worse by playing annoying
         | TikToks
        
         | phainopepla2 wrote:
         | Doesn't the right to make sound in public places extend to the
         | hypothetical users of this app?
         | 
         | I don't think a rights-based framing is the best way to look at
         | this. It's about courtesy and respect for social norms.
         | 
         | I don't see how society is becoming too intolerant, if anything
         | I think we are more tolerant of anti-social behavior than ever
         | before.
        
           | kittikitti wrote:
           | The hypothetical users of the app will use it to shut down
           | noise in public places.
           | 
           | You are the one defending anti-social behavior here.
           | 
           | If you don't like noise, don't go outside where other humans
           | are. If you use psychological manipulation because you think
           | people are playing videos too loud, maybe take a deep look in
           | the mirror before talking about courtesy and respect.
        
         | marssaxman wrote:
         | If they have a right to play their sounds in a public place,
         | then I also have the right to play the same sounds in the same
         | public place at almost, but not exactly, the same time.
        
           | kittikitti wrote:
           | You should absolutely do that and play it as loud as you
           | want. What if the other person doesn't want to be manipulated
           | and just plays it louder?
        
         | jlund-molfese wrote:
         | Why not use headphones, so you can enjoy noise without
         | bothering people who don't like noise? Some noise can be
         | uncomfortable to people at an airport. Movies with gunfire or
         | shouting for example.
        
           | kittikitti wrote:
           | It's absurd that people would all have to carry around and
           | use headphones just because some people don't want noise in
           | public. I would agree that loud gunfire isn't appropriate in
           | an airport but that's not the case here and you're
           | misconstruing the situation to make your case sound better.
        
         | Ritewut wrote:
         | No one is saying don't make noise. They are saying be
         | considerate of those around you. It is not a radical idea.
        
           | kittikitti wrote:
           | So you would advocate for someone to do this in public
           | against someone else playing a video on their phone? Do you
           | think this is the most considerate option?
        
         | compiler-guy wrote:
         | https://xkcd.com/1499/
        
       | drob518 wrote:
       | And the award goes to "STFU" for best practical use of AI.
        
       | potato-peeler wrote:
       | Isn't delayed auditory feedback similar to echo?
        
         | ndarray wrote:
         | It's like a single bounce. Echo effects usually have multiple
         | bounces, each quieter than the one before it.
        
         | mkipper wrote:
         | Yeah, this immediately made me think of DAF.
         | 
         | My wife is a speech pathologist and hooked me up to a DAF
         | machine for some research, and the effect was totally shocking
         | to me as a layperson. I think I did worse than average, but I
         | was basically unable to speak with delayed sidetone.
        
         | neonmagenta wrote:
         | Yea it can basically short circuit your thinking when trying to
         | talk, BUT oddly enough it helps with stuttering with a short
         | enough interval. There's in-ear attachments people can use that
         | do this exact thing and it helps reduce the amount of
         | stuttering and the brain getting stuck on a sound. My brother
         | uses one, its crazy how it works
        
         | ericwood wrote:
         | If speaking strictly in terms of audio effects this is a delay,
         | with "echo" usually implying feedback so the delayed signal is
         | attenuated and fed back into the delay line, getting quieter
         | each iteration and fading naturally.
        
       | analog31 wrote:
       | I'm a musician, and any delay between the sound coming direct
       | from my instrument and from my headphones completely bollixes my
       | ability to play.This made online jam sessions with an acoustic
       | instrument impossible.
        
       | quirino wrote:
       | One of my favorite web apps for testing your microphone and
       | camera has this echo feature built in, with 0s, 1s and 3s delay:
       | 
       | https://webcammictest.com/mic/
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | Okay, but... people with loud phones/voices in public places are
       | absolutely fine with it because they don't care about anybody
       | else's space or opinion of them. And they very likely are not
       | afraid of instigating confrontation or assault either.
        
         | pousada wrote:
         | In my experience 99% of people will turn down the volume or use
         | headphones if you ask nicely.
         | 
         | I never in my life was confronted or even assaulted, even by
         | noisy teenagers or grim looking men.
         | 
         | Not saying it's impossible but I would guess it's very
         | unlikely. Ymmv
        
           | konne88 wrote:
           | He's not completely wrong though. I was assaulted (pushed and
           | fell to the ground) for asking someone to turn down their
           | music at a pool. And I think I've asked less than 20 people
           | in my life to turn down their music.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | It 100% depends where you're at and the culture of that
           | place, along with your perceived threat level.
           | 
           | People that are perceived as no threat or a 100% chance of
           | being a deadly threat if ignored typically have no problems
           | here. It's the grey zone where conflict shows up. Think of a
           | little 60 year old grandma asking nicely the vast majority of
           | people will listen. Same if you're a 6'7" slab of rock with
           | tear drops tattooed on your face. Meanwhile if you're a
           | minority asking a racist to turn down the volume, this
           | situation is going to cause conflict almost all of the time.
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | 99% is way too high. More like 30 or 40%.
        
       | tra3 wrote:
       | In the style of cheap tiktoks: "There are two types of
       | people...". My wife loves listening to her phone on max volume,
       | but it sounds so bad compared to half decent speakers.
       | 
       | Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
       | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to
       | listen to music wear headphones!!
       | 
       | Also why are people using speaker phones in public places at max
       | volume. The speaker in your phone is designed to deliver the
       | sound directly to your ear, probably at higher fidelity.
       | 
       | I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually
       | eliminate weed wackers.
       | 
       | Sorry if I sound cranky, I find loud noises challenging.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | I get you, I also prefer quiet.
         | 
         | But I have a question:
         | 
         | > I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually
         | eliminate weed wackers.
         | 
         | Is this a non-sequitur, or a euphemism/figure of speech/etc.
         | which I have never previously encountered?
        
           | scythe wrote:
           | I think he means that electric handheld lawn equipment should
           | be much quieter than gas-fired lawn equipment which is an
           | infamous nuisance
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Just unsolicited sharing of their own personal preferences
           | with the rest of the forum readers
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | I think the following line puts it into more context:
           | 
           | > I find loud noises challenging.
           | 
           | They're basically comparing other people's speaker music to
           | noise pollution. Two stroke engines can be heard from a long
           | way off, and I've got box fans that are louder than my
           | electric weedwhacker.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | I find it absurd that music in cafes and restaurants has become
         | so loud that it's hard to have conversations with the people on
         | your table. Sound pollution is a real thing.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | I bet it's by design. If you actually make things pleasant
           | you might accidentally create a third place and no one can
           | profit from that!
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | To be contrarian: If people are comfortable they stick
             | around and keep ordering more stuff.
        
               | mordechai9000 wrote:
               | If people are uncomfortable, they can predict how often
               | they can turn the table over and get another party in
               | there.
        
               | ssl-3 wrote:
               | If I'm uncomfortable, I can predict how seldom I will be
               | coming back.
        
             | jiehong wrote:
             | In restaurants it doesn't make sense, because you usually
             | have the table for 2 hours after which the staff will
             | remind you it's time to leave (in Germany).
             | 
             | For cafe, sure!
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | hey, it's hard for the employees to enjoy their muzak over
           | the din of all of your conversations!
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | "with this music we are a happening trendy place!"
           | 
           | (and nobody will notice during slow times that we donn't
           | actually have that many customers)
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | The night clubs I went to in the nineties had loud music and
           | low lights so talking to anyone was a challenge.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | That's true of nightclubs today, and I think that's just
             | expected and normal? I'd go to a club to hear music, dance,
             | and drink. Sure, sometimes you might stop to try to talk a
             | little bit, but that's not the primary activity.
        
               | nephihaha wrote:
               | I went to nightclubs because other people did and to meet
               | women. The music was pretty much all the same with a beat
               | behind it, and the drink was watered down.
               | 
               | It's almost as if nightclubs are set up to prevent human
               | interaction.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | It's because they don't want you sitting there for any longer
           | than it takes to eat your meal. They deliberately have tile
           | floors and hard walls to amplify the noise.
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | I get that, but what about the next time I think about
             | where to go?
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Floors are more about cleaning, tbh.
        
           | jiehong wrote:
           | I find that sound design is famously awful in most public
           | spaces!
           | 
           | For example, train stations tend to have high ceilings, so
           | announcements are loud and full of echoes and reverbs. [0]
           | 
           | I think of sound a bit like WiFi: it's better to have tons of
           | low power speakers everywhere delivering a clear and non
           | aggressive sound, than a handful of screaming speakers in a
           | tight space: if you're next to it it's too loud, and far away
           | it's drown in reverb.
           | 
           | My guess is that architects and everyone else either don't
           | know or don't care.
           | 
           | [0]: like the new Munich Main Station under construction,
           | slide 2: https://entdecken.muenchen.de/en/station/26-4/
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | Maybe they don't know of or don't have access to bone
         | conducting earphones. Whatever they're listening to, that way
         | they'd also still hear their environment.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | Yea, with you on that one. Headphones are great at the house
           | where I have a controlled environment. When I'm out and
           | listening to things I'll typically only use one at a time
           | because it's easy to miss very important, possibly deadly
           | things.
        
             | frankus wrote:
             | They're obviously not the most affordable things around,
             | but if you have an iPhone and spending ~US$250 on a pair of
             | wireless earbuds won't unduly stress your budget, the
             | transparency mode on AirPods Pro is great for this.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | They are great. But... I tried them on a plane. It may
               | have been full sound cancelling rather than transparency,
               | and it works, and goes silent but it's a weird silence.
               | It sort of feels heavy, or loud.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > _Maybe they don 't know of or don't have access to..._
           | 
           | Maybe they don't know of or don't have any access to any
           | sense of boundaries, as if they skipped the infant stage of
           | development where they should have learned that "mom" is
           | another person with her own coequal set of needs. And anybody
           | with the urge to push back on this notion, please cover the
           | case where it might apply to you to.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | If you can't listen to your music without polluting the noise
           | landscape around you, then you don't get to listen to your
           | music. The excuse you present is a selfish one.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Yes, you are a crank, but you are not alone. Either way, we
         | should at least acknowledge the crankiness.
         | 
         | Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have received
         | the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker instead of
         | headphones. How people spend their time outdoors is not up to
         | you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a
         | bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do. There's a lot
         | more outdoors for you to use as well so rather that stewing,
         | just find more outdoors. Especially on trails. Just keep going.
         | Or wait until they have kept going. I've never seen a bluetooth
         | speaker that's big enough for someone to be on a trail with
         | that doesn't "go away" after a minute or so.
         | 
         | I have discussed the speaker on trails issue with friends, and
         | we've noticed that the louder one's speaker is the shittier the
         | music it is playing.
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | > Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have
           | received the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker
           | instead of headphones. How people spend their time outdoors
           | is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to
           | music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do.
           | There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so rather
           | that stewing, just find more outdoors. Especially on trails.
           | Just keep going. Or wait until they have kept going. I've
           | never seen a bluetooth speaker that's big enough for someone
           | to be on a trail with that doesn't "go away" after a minute
           | or so.
           | 
           | I am very open to the argument of "you do you", which is
           | pretty much my philosophy also. But I do think there are
           | /some/ limits to this, because some behaviors are inherently
           | anti-social. My philosophy is more than "you do you" should
           | apply to policy and regulation, meaning that we should not
           | criminalize or directly punish anti-social behaviors that
           | don't cause direct and immediate harm. But that definitely
           | does not mean that we should not shame people for acting in
           | completely inappropriate ways, or directly inform them that
           | their behavior is unwelcome, or otherwise seek to ensure that
           | we act to exist in spaces devoid of anti-social behavior.
           | 
           | I've had this same exact scenario happen, and I simply spoke
           | to the person and told them to lower the volume, use
           | headphones, or stop altogether because they were scaring away
           | the wildlife that I was there to see and photograph. They
           | apologized, lowered the volume, and we both went back to
           | doing our own thing. Most people are reasonable, and act in
           | anti-social ways due to lack of awareness not malice. We are
           | both sharing the trail, and we are both there to experience
           | nature, and that very well might include many different
           | modalities (including accompanying music), but if someone is
           | acting in a way that completely prevents me from enjoying
           | nature I definitely have the right to say something, to
           | complain about it, and to complain about it after the fact,
           | and "you do you" is not a valid argument in response to that.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | It's simple. You do you, but don't bother other people.
             | That's all there is to it.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I've been on both ends of this. One of the local parks
             | allowed for permits to use amplified sound which we took
             | advantage of about once a month weather permitting. Lots of
             | complaints to the point I often interacted with police. We
             | showed them the permit, we'd show dB readings from a meter,
             | the police would leave, we'd keep going. It's a public
             | place being used in a way allowed by those that be. There's
             | no bluetooth speaker today that can compare to our use of
             | amplified sound.
             | 
             | We all have rights to be in public parks/trails/etc. Cities
             | have ordinances about nuisance things like loud anything.
             | If you're on a trail and someone comes along with a speaker
             | you don't like, just let them pass. They aren't hurting
             | anyone/thing, you're just annoyed. If you've plopped down
             | in the park or at the beach when someone else comes along,
             | you can talk to them about, but they again have rights to
             | do it.
             | 
             | You are free to talk to your local representatives to
             | change ordinances if that's how you feel. Good luck with
             | that if that's what you so choose.
        
               | tristor wrote:
               | A public park and a trail have very different meanings in
               | my mind. When I say that I have encountered this on a
               | trail, I'm specifically referring to trails in places
               | which are designated wilderness areas, which are not
               | subject to any ordinance. The US has a lot of national
               | parks, national wilderness, and BLM land that is
               | completely open to the public. That's a wonderful thing,
               | but it also does not make sense to call for a park ranger
               | to get involved in what is fundamentally a discontent at
               | someone else's anti-social behavior, when I can simply
               | have a conversation with them.
               | 
               | Behavior, and the response to behavior, exist on a
               | spectrum. The fact you responded to me pointing out that
               | "you do you" has philosophical limits, but that those
               | limits should not involve criminalizing behavior, by
               | suggesting I should campaign to enact an ordinance seems
               | extremely obtuse. There is no need to change the law to
               | criminalize making noise in a natural area, but similarly
               | it's perfectly appropriate to tell someone to stop doing
               | it.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | > The US has a lot of national parks, national
               | wilderness, and BLM land that is completely open to the
               | public.
               | 
               | Many concerts, shooting ranges, and other loud activities
               | occur in two of the three categories you mention above.
               | All a lot louder than multiple hikers with Bluetooth
               | speakers.
               | 
               | I won't even get into ATVs.
               | 
               | (Not disagreeing with your intent - merely pointing out
               | to other readers of the various socially acceptable uses
               | in these lands).
        
               | dwaltrip wrote:
               | Local parks are quite different from hiking trails.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | I think you're confusing the issue here. You were in a
               | public place that explicitly allowed loud music with a
               | permit. You obtained that permit, and you did what you
               | were explicitly allowed to do. Great; you did the right
               | thing.
               | 
               | But on hiking trails (and in many parks), there isn't
               | that sort of thing. While some will prohibit loud noise,
               | many don't say _anything_ about loud noise. In those
               | cases, in the absence of guidance, we should do the thing
               | that is courteous and considerate of others: _not_ play
               | loud music.
        
             | dpark wrote:
             | > Most people are reasonable, and act in anti-social ways
             | due to lack of awareness not malice.
             | 
             | Sometimes. I'm pretty sure that very often it's because
             | they simply do not care that they are being
             | rude/inconsiderate/whatever. But even the willfully rude
             | will likely lower the volume if you ask them nicely because
             | not caring about being rude is not the same as wanting
             | confrontation.
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | > How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I
           | to decide.
           | 
           | Oh no, it absolutely is. Societies have laws, and even just
           | social norms, that don't stop applying "outdoors". Unless
           | you're in the ocean, I suppose.
           | 
           | Pack out what you pack in. Stay on the trail. No
           | loudspeakers. Very simple.
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | 100%
             | 
             | I'd argue that unspoken rules apply even more strongly in
             | actual outdoors setting, because a good number of those
             | norms actually have serious consequences when violated.
             | Anybody seriously hiking or offroading gets to save a non-
             | zero number of behinds of people who ignored those rules,
             | every single year.
             | 
             | And they also know they _need_ to rely on those rules,
             | because they might get them out of trouble too. The
             | outdoors is not always friendly.
             | 
             | The "No speakers" thing is just the "let's try not be an
             | ass to the same person who might need to pull me out of a
             | ravine next" part of the rules.
        
             | devin wrote:
             | I can assure you some of them also very much apply in the
             | ocean.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | Of the three you mention, only one is the law in every
             | public land place I've hiked.[1]
             | 
             | Staying on the trail is mostly a suggestion for your safety
             | (and to preserve the area) - definitely not a law.
             | 
             | Ditto for loudspeakers. People often go into nature and
             | throw concerts.
             | 
             | [1] OK - trails in state parks and perhaps some national
             | parks likely have more rules. But trails in general public
             | lands (BLM, forest, etc)? Not many.
        
               | dpark wrote:
               | This is willful misreading. They specifically also said
               | "social norms".
               | 
               | This "it's not technically illegal so it's not a problem"
               | sentiment is unhealthy for civil societies. I for one
               | would like basic social norms to be respected without
               | law-enforcement being involved.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | I was pointing out the pointlessness of invoking "laws"
               | in this scenario. I'm not the one that brought it into
               | the conversation.
               | 
               | As for social norms, one only has to read the comments to
               | understand that there clearly isn't consensus on this
               | point. People go to nature for many reasons - not all
               | related to enjoying the sounds of nature. What dylan604
               | is pointing out is to be mindful of that.
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | There are a lot of people who are loud about not wanting
               | to follow social norms (which is expected when we're
               | talking about people rudely being loud, I guess). It
               | seems to be a point of pride. I don't get it but I've
               | definitely seen it.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | > _People go to nature for many reasons - not all related
               | to enjoying the sounds of nature._
               | 
               | The issue that you seem to be (willfully?) ignoring is
               | that in a shared space, there are actions that you can
               | take that force others to "enjoy" the space in a way
               | that's different than they'd like.
               | 
               | Someone wants to enjoy the space with music. Ok, they
               | play music, so they're enjoying the space in the way they
               | want. Great for them.
               | 
               | Someone else wants to enjoy the space more quietly, able
               | to hear the sounds of nature around them. But the person
               | above has decided for them that they are not permitted to
               | enjoy the space that way.
               | 
               | This is the difference between "freedom to" and "freedom
               | from". Unfortunately when you have the "freedom to" do
               | whatever you want, you infringe on the "freedom from" of
               | others. It's a balance, and I'm sad to see that it seems
               | people are swinging that balance toward "freedom to" at
               | the expense of others. When I was growing up, we used to
               | call this "common courtesy", which seems to be much less
               | common these days.
        
           | etc-hosts wrote:
           | Often when I encounter a person loudly listening to music or
           | videos on their phone in a cafe, it's because they are
           | completely unaware of how loud they are or they obviously
           | have some challenging psychological issues ( I live in SF ).
           | 
           | I have a lot of wired headphones I got off of Temu, I just
           | give them a pair.
        
             | rahimnathwani wrote:
             | What % of the time does it work?
             | 
             | Any adverse experiences (e.g. punch in the face)?
        
           | mythical_39 wrote:
           | > How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I
           | to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth
           | speaker, that's what they want to do.
           | 
           | What if it interferes with my desire to NOT listen to their
           | music on their bluetooth speaker?
        
           | LunaSea wrote:
           | > There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so
           | rather that stewing
           | 
           | There are also many deep caves in which you can listen to
           | music on speakers. Why aren't you going to these caves?
           | 
           | The societal contract is that your freedom stops where your
           | neighbours freedom starts. This also applies to the noise you
           | produce.
        
           | DoneWithAllThat wrote:
           | This is probably the most perfect illustration of toxic
           | empathy I have ever read.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | _How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I
           | to decide._
           | 
           | If they're blasting music in a normally quiet place, _they_
           | are deciding for _me_. You 're literally giving priority to
           | whoever chooses to be less considerate of others.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | > _How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I
           | to decide._
           | 
           | Hiking trails and parks are public spaces, and we absolutely
           | do get to decide how people spend their time there. I've seen
           | parks and trails where the sign at the entrance/trailhead
           | says no amplified music (among other restrictions). Selfish
           | people of course ignore these signs and damage the experience
           | for everyone around them.
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker.
         | 
         | Boy, that one really gets to me when I'm on the trail. Both
         | hikers and mountain bikers are guilty of that. Also, the people
         | with their AirPods in oblivious to anything going on around
         | them...
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | So, people playing music around them is bad, and people
           | playing music just to themselves is also bad?
        
             | decimalenough wrote:
             | Yes, but they're different kinds of bad. People playing
             | music publicly are being obnoxious to everyone else, while
             | people playing music privately are putting themselves at
             | risk. (Not so much when hiking, but IMHO wearing headphones
             | while cycling in traffic is suicidal.)
        
           | eddyg wrote:
           | At least AirPods have an _excellent_ transparency mode
        
         | mrexroad wrote:
         | You touched a nerve for me -- folks hiking with Bluetooth
         | speakers. My god that grinds my gears. I can see an argument
         | for playing music (at reasonable volume) while relaxing at a
         | camp site, but on the trail it's as aggravating as a dirt bike
         | or snowmobile ripping along near by.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I've heard many people say the cannot stand they way earbuds
           | feel. Just like many people said they could not breath
           | wearing a mask.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | There are a lot of different types of headphones.
        
             | spookie wrote:
             | Just get the shower style ones.
        
             | mythical_39 wrote:
             | I can sympathize with this, but
             | 
             | 1) earbuds are not the only headphone style
             | 
             | 2) listening to speakers is not a necessity.
             | 
             | So fine if you don't want to use earbuds, but not
             | necessarily fine to annoy those around you with music/talk
             | shows or whatever sounds you want to introduce to the
             | enviroment.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | 3) "I don't like this" / "I don't wanna" is not really an
               | acceptable reason to be an antisocial ass.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | Being in nature, all alone is not social though, is it?
               | Why are people so frustrated? What am I missing?
               | 
               | FWIW, it is dangerous to wear headphones in the city and
               | listen to music, but you can always wear only one side.
               | It is not comfortable, but that is how you remain safe
               | without being an ass.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Transparency modes, bone conduction, lower volume.
        
               | hexfish wrote:
               | Bone conduction is amazing!
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > Being in nature, all alone is not social though, is it?
               | Why are people so frustrated? What am I missing?
               | 
               | Let's say I'm out in the woods, being non social. And
               | someone comes up the path, playing music loudly. Now I'm
               | being annoyed by people again, which is what I was trying
               | to avoid by being out in the woods. And they're usually
               | on a motorized vehicle, even though motorized vehicles
               | are prohibited on the path.
               | 
               | I'm not trying to tell people how to live their lives. If
               | they want to apprechiate nature in silence, cool. If they
               | want to listen to music, cool ... but it'd be nice if
               | they used headphones and it would be acceptable if they
               | had a speaker at reasonable volume, but when I can hear
               | them before I can see them, it's really not cool.
               | 
               | If they want to walk with a friend and chat, that's ok
               | too.
        
             | fwipsy wrote:
             | I can't stand the way earbuds feel. That's why I wear over-
             | the-ear headphones or bone-conducting headphones. There are
             | so many options for personal audio. Even if you're truly
             | allergic to all of them, that doesn't give you the right to
             | inflict your noise on others.
             | 
             | Imagine if everyone decided they were entitled to play
             | their music on speakers. The result would be a cacophony
             | where nobody can hear their own music and life is worse for
             | everyone. People who play music in public spaces are
             | claiming a common resource for their own exclusive use.
             | 
             | Sincerely - someone who's lived with 7 other people in a
             | 3-bedroom house.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | Nobody is forced to listen/watch stuff anyway. If you
               | don't have the mean to do it quietly, you can just
               | abstain yourself from doing it.
        
             | horsawlarway wrote:
             | I'm one of those people - I find any "in-ear"
             | headphone/earbud to be outrageously uncomfortable.
             | 
             | Great news - there are a TON of alternatives! You're still
             | an asshat if you play loud music without regard for your
             | surroundings.
             | 
             | My personal pick? Get a bone conduction headset (ex: Shokz
             | or cheaper alternative). Comfortable, lightweight,
             | waterproof, you can still hear your surroundings.
        
               | Twisol wrote:
               | I have a Shokz brand two-piece headset (the OpenFit 2+ i
               | think?) that just wraps around the outside of the ear,
               | with the actual speaker part held just outside the ear
               | canal. I can't do in-ear buds either, but these just work
               | for me. Doesn't even feel like anything's there.
               | 
               | I did try their bone-conduction headphones, but the
               | quality was slightly worse and they didn't feel as
               | nonexistent to wear.
        
               | rpdillon wrote:
               | Same problem with anything in-ear. I have two pairs of
               | Shokz that I use for work (OpenComm) and play (OpenRun).
               | I thought they would be a gimmick, but 3 years later, I
               | love them and use them daily.
               | 
               | Fun hack: when I travel I prefer my over-ear noise
               | cancelling Ankers, but they're bulky. So, for traveling
               | light, I use Shockz and then silicone ear plugs to block
               | out external sound on e.g. the airplane. Creates a little
               | bit of a "swimming pool" effect acoustically, but works
               | well and is tiny to carry.
        
               | aquariusDue wrote:
               | I've been using a Shokz pair of headphones off and on for
               | around 5 years and while they're great indoors I wouldn't
               | really recommend them outside. Due to the city noise
               | you'll probably tend to crank the volume pretty high
               | (without realizing) and give yourself hearing damage over
               | time.
        
             | lacoolj wrote:
             | Why would earbuds be the defacto standard here? Get
             | headphones. They're great, I promise. I'll even send a link
             | https://www.bestbuy.com/product/sennheiser-
             | momemtum-4-wirele...
        
               | hamdingers wrote:
               | Even fewer people want to wear earmuffs while hiking.
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | There are so many styles and those people can choose one
               | consistent with their muff preferences.
        
             | barbecue_sauce wrote:
             | I recommend Koss Porta Pros with Yaxi pads.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | Maybe go without headphones and pay attention to your
             | surroundings instead. I have zero patience for such excuses
             | from people who choose to impose their preferences on other
             | people.
        
               | mrexroad wrote:
               | > Maybe go without headphones and pay attention to your
               | surroundings instead.
               | 
               | This. Even when you are seemingly quiet on a trail, 90%
               | of wildlife are hiding from you. It's amazing what
               | happens when you stop and sit in complete silence for
               | 5-10 minutes -- a whole hidden world comes alive around
               | you. 10/10, highly recommend.
               | 
               | > I have zero patience for such excuses from people who
               | choose to impose their preferences on other people.
               | 
               | This as well. Somewhere along the way, civics teachings
               | in America's school left folks w/ the impression that the
               | spirit of our liberty is, "It's a free country, I can do
               | what I want!", rather of, "I have the liberty to pursue
               | happiness, up until it infringes on the liberty for
               | others to do so."
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | This is domething I realized riding my MTB by night in
               | the forests in the mountains. Thanks to the reflection of
               | all those eyes staring at your headlight you realize the
               | sheer amount of wildlife there is hidden a few meters
               | from you.
        
               | cons0le wrote:
               | To play devils advocate, telling other people to turn off
               | thier music is also "imposing preferences on other
               | people".
               | 
               | I do agree with what they're saying though.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | If they aren't a dick they can have their music, through
               | headphones.
        
             | Tempest1981 wrote:
             | I found some good bone-conduction headphones... very comfy,
             | only $35, Shokz-style. Full-day battery.
        
               | goopypoop wrote:
               | me too but I had to grow sideburns to cope with the wind
        
             | Tanoc wrote:
             | I can confirm the earbuds thing. Not the mask thing. Modern
             | jelly ended "earbuds" just feel awful. They irritate my
             | sense of momentum, never stay in, and it constantly feels
             | like I have altitude pressure buildup in my ear canal when
             | I wear them. The old hard plastic first generation iPod
             | style in-ear earphones however I have had no problem with.
             | Gravity keeps those in place and so there isn't that
             | constant pressure of expansion in your ears. Those or over-
             | ear headphones are what should be recommended to people,
             | and if neither of those options work then they're just
             | using it as an excuse.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | Tough shit. "I don't like how earbuds feel" does not mean
             | you should feel free to add noise pollution to everyone
             | else's day.
             | 
             | Regardless, earbuds are only one type of headphone. I'm
             | sure someone with an earbud sensitivity can find another
             | type that works well. And if not, again: tough shit; no
             | music for you.
        
           | mlfreeman wrote:
           | In potentially-dangerous-animal country (e.g. grizzly bears,
           | mountain lions, etc), it could be a safety mechanism...I was
           | told repeatedly you need to make some kind of distinctive
           | noise regularly so they won't get startled by you rounding a
           | bend.
        
             | chasd00 wrote:
             | those people, i've encountered them too, don't give a shit
             | about anything let alone being safe around wildlife. If
             | prey distress calls could be confused with music they'd be
             | blaring that just as well.
        
             | throw-the-towel wrote:
             | These people probably don't do it for this reason, but
             | you're correct, at least when it comes to bears.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | lol.
             | 
             | that's like harley riders with unmuffled motors "for
             | safety".
             | 
             | On the other hand, I remember being in japan and watching
             | some construction vehicles in tokyo. They were surprisingly
             | quiet. After a while I realized what it was - in the united
             | states all construction vehicles have these annoying "beep-
             | beep-beep" sounds while they're working (for safety).
             | 
             | I wonder if one day they can play those only when someone
             | walks nearby or play in some technologically quieter way.
        
               | ArnoVW wrote:
               | In France I see (and hear) more and more use of a special
               | type of warning device, "le cri de lynx" that reduces
               | sonic pollution by building sites.
               | 
               | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BljL3XO0fyg&pp=0gcJCTIBo7Vq
               | N5t...
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Sadly I don't speak French and Searching for whatever
               | this is isn't working.
               | 
               | If it's noise cancelling it sounds amazing.
               | 
               | Can you further expand?
        
               | tom_ wrote:
               | It's the noise you hear at about the one minute mark when
               | the digger is reversing:
               | https://youtu.be/BljL3XO0fyg?t=59
               | 
               | Actual cri du lynx:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtsdVQWGibQ
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Oh this is horrible.
               | 
               | We don't want people run over by reversing vehicles, but
               | also, if I had to listen to that every day, I'd leap in
               | front of them.
        
               | slobotron wrote:
               | IMO, in person it's much nicer on the ears than the old
               | single-tone beep that they used to have. It's less
               | jarring and easier to locate where the noise is coming
               | from, ye olde beep seemed to come from everywhere at
               | once.
        
               | VageGast wrote:
               | It does remind me of a video from Tom Scott about the use
               | of white noise for reversing trucks. It has multiple
               | benefits over the old beeping sound, including being
               | easily able to hear the direction the sound is coming
               | from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa28lIGuxq8
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | > while they're working (for safety).
               | 
               | Should only be while they're backing up. It signals to
               | anyone around that the vehicle is in reverse. At least
               | the ones I'm familiar with.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > some technologically quieter way.
               | 
               | I'm not going to watch the video linked in sibling
               | comments right now, but "pulsing loud static" is a pretty
               | common alternative to beeping around me; especially in
               | the big citie. Kind of a big shush shush noise: sometimes
               | it sounds a little like hydraulics working which is fine
               | because if you hear those, something big is happening and
               | you should pay attention.
               | 
               | Anyway, the real nice thing is it's loud and attention
               | catching near the source, but it seems to disipate faster
               | than beeps, so you don't really hear it when it's not
               | relevant.
        
             | yujzgzc wrote:
             | This is my reason for blasting music from my bicycle. Feels
             | less rude than clicking a bell at the pedestrians and
             | somewhat more effective at attracting attention.
        
               | nephihaha wrote:
               | We don't have bears or mountain lions where I live but
               | mountain bikers still do this.
        
               | cwillu wrote:
               | It's great for announcing that an asshole is approaching.
        
               | shermantanktop wrote:
               | "Heeeeere I come!!!" Boom psst boom psst waka waka
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Better still, a nice free hub. If you don't pedal, it's
               | noisy, if you back pedal it sounds urgent.
               | 
               | As an upside, your better get good at hill climbing as
               | freewheeling or backpedaling up hill takes some practice.
        
               | what wrote:
               | How about don't ride on the sidewalk or any pedestrian
               | path.
        
               | Dilettante_ wrote:
               | There are shared pedestrian/cyclist paths in some places.
        
               | VorpalWay wrote:
               | Mixed bike/pedestrian paths and sidewalks are extremely
               | common here in Sweden at least. Some are split into two
               | halves, but mixed is more common.
        
               | yujzgzc wrote:
               | Right, I don't! it's the other way around where I live.
               | Lots of pedestrians distractingly lolling about in the
               | bike lane, maybe with a dog and a loose toddler too. So,
               | music.
        
               | VorpalWay wrote:
               | That is definitely the wrong thing to do. It isn't rude
               | to use the bell, and as a pedestrian I appreciate a
               | single ring (obviously, don't ring like a madman either).
               | Playing music loudly in a public space is way more rude
               | than using your bicycle bell.
        
               | yujzgzc wrote:
               | Too many close calls with inattentive pedestrians in my
               | area. I ring, no move, or worse, they get startled, and
               | turn around _into_ the middle of the bike lane. If I have
               | to choose between coming off as rude and keeping my brain
               | enclosed, I know what to do.
        
               | KolmogorovComp wrote:
               | It's amazing how HN readers are immune to second degree
               | and fell flat into the trap.
        
             | mrexroad wrote:
             | Huh? I've never met anyone in the backcountry that played
             | music to keep predators away. Even when forced to hike at
             | dusk, the primary risk is quietly stumbling on a predator
             | out stalking, or worse, a predator's offspring. At most you
             | clap every so often, maybe talk/sing to yourself, or dangle
             | some stuff from your pack at higher risk times. Animals
             | will do the hard work of avoiding you When you're nearby,
             | but its quite unnecessary to notify everything with in a
             | 1km radius of your presence.
        
             | calmbonsai wrote:
             | That's what "bear bells" are for...in bear country.
             | 
             | Mountain lions are avoidant at all times unless it's a
             | mother with cubs and even then they'll let you know _well_
             | in advance.
             | 
             | Otherwise, just normal conversation, your smell with even a
             | light breeze, and the vibrations on-trail will alert _all_
             | animals to your presence.
             | 
             | In other words, the "trail music" theory is bullshit. They
             | just want to listen to their music.
        
               | chickensong wrote:
               | Bear bells have been shown to not be effective.
        
               | calmbonsai wrote:
               | Cite?
               | 
               | In some parks, there use is required by-law.
               | 
               | Given that they've been in continuous use for centuries I
               | question the conclusion that they're not effective, but
               | I'm open to altering my opinion backed-up with data.
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | > Mountain lions are avoidant at all times
               | 
               | Actually sometimes they stalk people but I guess that's
               | neither here nor there because bear bells aren't going to
               | help in that situation.
        
               | calmbonsai wrote:
               | I've heard of "being followed" by a mountain lion out of
               | curiosity or, perhaps, scavenging when ill, but never a
               | full-day stalk.
               | 
               | There was a recent death in our "backyard" though
               | https://vt.co/news/us/details-emerge-solo-hiker-killed-
               | by-mo... that was, clearly, the result of a planned
               | attack by a teenage male so, perhaps, their behavior is
               | changing.
               | 
               | Still, it's so rare, we don't have enough modern data.
        
           | robotburrito wrote:
           | I think it's cultural to do this or something.
        
             | boogieknite wrote:
             | definitely not cultural
             | 
             | now, imagine showing up to a hike and the person youre
             | meeting whips one of these out and proceeds to blast rap
             | music. its happened to me and it feels like Seinfeld but
             | 2020s
        
               | skirmish wrote:
               | Be prepared to counter with Norwegian black metal!
        
               | fuzzer371 wrote:
               | It is absolutely a cultural thing.
        
               | boogieknite wrote:
               | this guy is a white cop and our mothers are sisters
               | 
               | so is this white guy culture, cop culture or what
               | culture?
               | 
               | in my experience its nearly always college bros with
               | fanny pack speakers. college bro who will grow up to be a
               | white cop culture maybe
        
               | cons0le wrote:
               | Yeah, you're really not going to find many people
               | blasting gustav mahler in the forest for example. It's
               | always pop music.
        
         | maerF0x0 wrote:
         | I'm with you. IMO sound pollution is no different than 2nd hand
         | smoke. IMO It should not be anyone's right to impose upon
         | others, especially when there are lower externality options.
         | Wear headphones.
         | 
         | "Not everyone owns headphones" is such a dumb response because
         | 1. This entertainment is purely optional (not needed for
         | survival) and 2. There are $4 headphones on amazon making me
         | believe in cheaper/poorer markets you could get them for about
         | 1/2 that.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Secondhand smoke is toxic and physically damages your body
           | and enters your bloodstream.
           | 
           | Someone playing music is annoying and does not physically
           | harm you in any way.
           | 
           | These are not remotely the same thing. There is a clear
           | bright line between them.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | It stresses me out and distracts me from what I'm doing.
             | You have no right to do that and I will ruin your day if
             | you try.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | As long as I'm within the restrictions of any ordinance
               | regarding noise level/place/time of day, I have no
               | obligation to be silent in public places.
               | 
               | You don't have a right to freedom from annoyances, within
               | reason.
        
               | mancerayder wrote:
               | That's why the person wrote the app in the link of this
               | thread. So that when you annoy us, we'll echo it back in
               | your face at full volume. And you have no right to
               | complain since you just approved not being free from us
               | doing this to you.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Unwanted noise affect stress level which has an impact in
             | health.
             | 
             | It is not just harmless annoyance and not everyone is equal
             | in that regard.
        
               | evilduck wrote:
               | C'mon now.
               | 
               | "<insert literally anything you feel like> affect stress
               | level which has an impact in health [so do what I want]"
               | 
               | What _can't_ you use that argument for?
        
             | frm88 wrote:
             | _Someone playing music is annoying and does not physically
             | harm you in any way._
             | 
             | Tell that to someone wearing hearing aids or implants. I'm
             | fairly sure, they feel differently.
        
           | socalgal2 wrote:
           | Go to SF. people carrying 24inch speakers on their back
           | blaring music walking down market street
           | 
           | Or the DJ school at 20th and Mission playing music outdoors
           | every Friday
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | > I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually
         | eliminate weed wackers.
         | 
         | I've moved to all electric lawn equipment. Snow blower, lawn
         | mower, weed wacker, leaf blower. They all work great, are
         | quieter, and I don't have to deal with carburetors and oil ever
         | again.
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | I only moved halfway. I had some electronic failure in one of
           | my more expensive battery powered purchases, and the thing
           | was just dead. There's no servicing it for any reasonable
           | cost. For more important things, I'd rather have a two stroke
           | engine I can work on myself. For everything else, battery
           | operated is the way to go.
        
             | ssl-3 wrote:
             | My battery-powered lawnmower died once.
             | 
             | After I took the handle apart and undid some connections, I
             | diagnosed it as a bad switch.
             | 
             | I fixed it by making a small hole in the switch body with a
             | hand-held drill bit, shaking some water out of it, spraying
             | in some Corrosion-X, and exercising it while watching its
             | performance improve on my meter.
             | 
             | In terms of cost: It took about 40 minutes to get from
             | "WTF?" to "Fixed!", along with maybe 3 cents of the magic
             | spray stuff and some tools I already owned.
        
           | officeplant wrote:
           | Side benefit: Our electric push mower has enough LED lights
           | on it for some reason that I can mow after sunset. I've mowed
           | the grass at 9pm without disturbing anyone and its magic.
        
         | yesfitz wrote:
         | It's not unreasonable to expect certain behavior in a shared
         | space.
         | 
         | I'm really not sure where some of the other people replying to
         | your comment are coming from. Forcing every human and animal
         | you come across to listen to what you're listening to is
         | selfish. Full stop. And not doing it costs $0, which preempts
         | any question of resources.
        
           | dd8601fn wrote:
           | Sometimes I would really rather not have the outside world
           | isolated or noise cancelled while I'm listening to music...
           | so I sorta get it?
           | 
           | But also, for all the reasons described, I just use
           | transparency modes if I want that. That way nobody else has
           | to hear my poor taste in music.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | There are so many types of headphones that don't isolate
             | much, including the cheapest crappy on-ears from the
             | walkman era, there's really no excuse.
             | 
             | And on the few occasions where I've had no other option, it
             | made so much more sense to set my phone to low volume and
             | bring it close to my ear instead of holding it iut and
             | maxing the volume.
             | 
             | And if I need to talk as well, many people don't know this,
             | but there's a second smaller speaker on the opposite end of
             | the phone, approximately one mouth-ear distance away from
             | the microphone.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | Wearing headphones while hiking is uncomfortable, and wearing
         | earbuds for any length of time is always uncomfortable - hiking
         | or not. They also fall out.
         | 
         | As others have said - not really a big deal. Either get ahead
         | of them and maintain a significant distance, or stay behind and
         | do so.
        
           | gensym wrote:
           | It is a big deal. It means for a lot of people there's
           | nowhere they can go to actually enjoy the sound of nature.
           | The strategy of getting ahead or staying behind doesn't work
           | when there are switchbacks or crowded trails. The strategy
           | that does work is to get fit enough to go deep into the
           | backcountry because the troglodytes that bring speakers to
           | hikes lack the discipline to ever get that far.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | > The strategy of getting ahead or staying behind doesn't
             | work when there are switchbacks or crowded trails.
             | 
             | If a trail is crowded, you won't hear much of the sound of
             | nature, whether someone is playing music or now.
             | 
             | It all depends on where you live, and what access you have.
             | Nature is not far from me, so I have several options within
             | an hour's drive.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | https://shokz.com
           | 
           | There you go. Quite comfortable, don't have to stick them
           | inside your ears, and still allows you to perceive the sounds
           | around you.
           | 
           | In the spirit of fairness, I'll also share the cons from my
           | experience: First is battery life isn't as good as
           | headphones. That's somewhat obvious as they're much smaller,
           | but they will still last you the whole day so not really an
           | issue for hiking. Second one is that because they don't block
           | outside sounds, they're not appropriate for
           | audiobooks/podcasts while walking in the city. Again, not an
           | issue for hiking.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | Whether they realize it or not, most of the population
             | can't afford this. Cheap Bluetooth speakers are, well,
             | cheap!
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | Then buy a cheaper brand. I just did a no-effort search
               | on Amazon and found some under $30.
               | 
               | Additionally, "I can't afford the alternative" is not a
               | valid excuse to be an asshole to those around you.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | What constitutes being an asshole is very much the point
               | of contention in this thread. Your comment is borderline
               | tautological.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | > Cheap Bluetooth speakers are, well, cheap!
               | 
               | And so are cheap headphones.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | No. This is YOUR problem. If you want to play your own music
           | on a speaker, you're making your problem everyone else's
           | problem. Grow up.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | You are being needlessly triggered, to the point that
             | you're not parsing the thread well.
             | 
             | 1. I didn't say I do this. It's not my problem.
             | 
             | 2. You're exaggerating by saying "everyone else's problem".
             | As is clear from the thread, only certain people view it as
             | a problem.
             | 
             | I also don't like people taking selfies on trails. But I
             | know how not to have my contentment be affected by minor
             | problems.
             | 
             | Learn to share the trail and live with others different
             | from you.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | No. Your first sentence is framed from the point of view
               | of your own experience. Regardless, I will not tolerate
               | sound pollution like this. It's one thing in the city,
               | where noise is chronic and endemic. Bringing that into a
               | natural setting is simply inconsiderate of others, and it
               | is the inconsiderate person who must change their
               | behavior, not the people who are being imposed upon.
        
         | devin wrote:
         | I am with you on speakers on a nature hike, but I think the
         | line blurs a bit in a city context. As long as it's not
         | extremely loud, I find it slightly more difficult to hate on
         | the person playing some music and moderate volume while trucks
         | and loud motorcycles go by. If we had less of a car culture, I
         | might feel differently about it, but there's so much noise
         | already that in that context I kind of shrug my shoulders at
         | it.
        
           | lacoolj wrote:
           | I don't think this is really the idea behind this post
           | 
           | It's about enclosed spaces (airport) or open, quiet ones
           | (hiking)
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | TLDR it feels better to announce yourself with some (non
           | aggressive) music than triggering a bell.
           | 
           | I wouldn't use that when hiking but it is true that I
           | sometimes use a bluetooth speaker when riding my bicycle in
           | the city.
           | 
           | I don't put it at full volume but a lot of pedestrians and
           | their dog seem to be attracted by dedicated bicycle lanes
           | when they are built on the same level as the sidewalk. It is
           | a good way to warn people of my presence without using a
           | bell. Using a bell sometimes sounds a bit rude because people
           | associate it to the use of the car horn which has become a
           | proxy for insults instead of the warning device it used to
           | be.
           | 
           | [1] I used to think pedestrians were doing it to annoy
           | cyclists on purpose but judging by their often suprised
           | reaction. I think it is just an unconscious behavior. Apart
           | from bicycle lanes which aren't well marked, it is probably
           | because the bicycle lanes are usually a smoother surface and
           | thus more agreeable to the feet than the sidewalk thus people
           | tend to walk on them natually.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | In a city context it's still obnoxious. In my experience
           | these people are playing their music _loudly_. Like you can
           | hear it from 2-3 blocks away, even with vehicle noise.
           | 
           | And the vehicle noise is expected and "necessary", in that
           | it's a street, and of course there will be noisy cars and
           | motorcycles on it. The noise is also easier to treat as a
           | background buzz and tune out. Loud music is not any of those
           | things.
           | 
           | Cities are a delicate balance when it comes to noise: if you
           | live in a city, you have to acknowledge that you're living in
           | a densely-populated place with lots of other people around,
           | and make your peace with the fact that there will be noise.
           | But at the same time, each individual should also do their
           | best to avoid polluting the air with unnecessary noise. And
           | blasting music from a giant bluetooth speaker in a backpack
           | is 100% unnecessary, rude, and selfish.
        
         | lbrito wrote:
         | >Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | I'm baffled by this too, but I think some people get accustomed
         | to just having a soundtrack around them at all times, like
         | they're living in a Hollywood movie. It gets to the point where
         | they actually sleep with something always on (in the old days
         | that would be a TV, not sure today. Probably a podcast)
        
         | martinpw wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | Washington Department of Natural Resources recommended
         | bluetooth speaker playlists for hiking:
         | 
         | https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/08/20/washington-roasts-...
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | Hopefully the rest of the world will eventually follow the
         | Netherlands attempts to limit noise in cities by design
         | 
         | [1]:https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?t=202
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I was in downtown seattle recently and these homeless people
         | play music on giant bluetooth speakers.
         | 
         | It was kind of surreal - sketchy looking person playing high-
         | pitched voice female vocals (imagine k-pop).
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | Every person is just a few missed meals and showers away from
           | being a "sketchy looking person" even k-pop lovers. The
           | majority of Americans are precariously close to ending up
           | homeless.
        
           | bradleyy wrote:
           | I used to work in Pioneer Square, and there was a guy with a
           | "portable" (think desktop PC in a milk crate, bungie corded
           | to a foldable dolly) gaming pc playing on the regular.
           | Granted this is back a bit.
           | 
           | Seattleites are a resourceful lot.
        
         | sefk wrote:
         | I also sound cranky a lot lately when complaining about loud or
         | unwelcome sounds in public spaces. So this project (and your
         | comment) resonates with me.
         | 
         | Also yes, hiking with a bluetooth speaker is particularly
         | galling. you're in nature! For that reason I've been
         | considering buying (or building) a portable bluetooth jammer. I
         | wouldn't do all the time, no reason to punish someone using
         | wireless earphones respectfully. It'd need to have a trigger
         | for JIT intervention.
        
         | dpc050505 wrote:
         | I've found myself wishing I had a bluetooth speaker crossing
         | meadows in bear country. It gets old singing Yellow submarine's
         | chorus for the 35th time. Bears will hide if they hear you, if
         | you surprise them and they get scared you might have a bad
         | time.
        
         | Pxtl wrote:
         | I've a smallish lawn so I've just been using wired yard tools
         | my whole life. Have to be careful to mind the extension cord
         | but it's dead simple and zero-maintenance. My lawnmower is just
         | about old enough to run for President. Just make sure you get
         | the right cable gauge for your mower, since you're dealing with
         | long-enough runs that resistance loss in the cable is
         | substantial and Home Depot just wants to sell you 100 foot 16
         | gauge thing that probably shouldn't be anywhere near a proper
         | lawnmower.
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | _> what 's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!_
         | 
         | Finally, it's my time to shine. OK, so I do this. Granted, I
         | hike spots where I rarely run into other people. I listen to
         | music out in nature because:
         | 
         | - I enjoy it and it creates a mood.
         | 
         | - I don't wear headphones because I want to be comfortable but
         | I also want to hear the environment (for safety and enjoyment
         | reasons).
         | 
         | - It also lets bears and cougar know I am around.
         | 
         | Finally, nature isn't new to me. I've spent significant amounts
         | of time in the remote woods alone -- even living in the woods
         | for some time. Not that it's boring by any stretch, but it's
         | also not a novel experience to me.
         | 
         | But yeah, it'd be rude to be doing it where other people are
         | trying to enjoy nature.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | > _But yeah, it 'd be rude to be doing it where other people
           | are trying to enjoy nature._
           | 
           | Right, so you are a hiking music-player, but also a person
           | who is sensitive to the experiences of others and not a
           | douche. I think this thread is about the douchey people who
           | do this in much more crowded spaces than you're used to.
           | Maybe they have the same justifications as you have when
           | you're alone, but they just don't hold water for me when
           | there are other people around.
        
           | Wurdan wrote:
           | I've recently started trying open ear phones for other
           | reasons and I've found the current state of the art pretty
           | good in terms of sound quality. I use Nothing's open ears,
           | but I'm sure there are many others that are equally good.
           | They won't act as cougar alerters, but if you want to listen
           | to both music and the environment where others are around,
           | the tech is ready
        
           | dystopiandevel wrote:
           | I can appreciate the reasons you have for wanting it. The
           | only problem is when it affects my hiking experience. It
           | annoys the crap out of me to hear it coming loudly from down
           | the path when I just want to listen to nature.
           | 
           | Like the other commenter posted, you can use open earbuds,
           | which I use as well for the same reasons.
           | 
           | As far as wild cats go, they are already pretty good at
           | knowing you are there already without a speaker. Where I live
           | there are many mountain lions and bobcats but I have never
           | seen one close up, same in the California Sierra. In terms of
           | bears, if they aren't black bears then yeah although it
           | depends on where you are hiking. If it's in the backcountry,
           | please pause it when I come by.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | I've not done this, and I don't think I would ever do this, but
         | I can sympathize with having the idea that they don't want to
         | be so isolated from nature so as to have headphones blocking
         | out the sounds of the world around them dampened, but also feel
         | like it would be super sweet if they could listen to Bowie
         | right now.
         | 
         | It's also been shown that having music reduces the feeling of
         | loneliness, having similar effects to having had a conversation
         | recently, so if a person is hiking along perhaps it offers them
         | companionship?
         | 
         | _If_ I ever did this (I wouldn't) I'd probably have it down to
         | a whisper such that you would hardly be able to make it out
         | unless you were right beside me.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | When you are hiking there is actually a ton of noise/songs to
           | listen to. Especially birds.
        
           | mancerayder wrote:
           | What are you doing out in nature if you need to be around
           | music and feel lonely? Stay in the city, leave the country to
           | people who want to actually get a break from the city for
           | their mental health.
           | 
           | In my case, listening to other people's music damages my
           | mental health. If I encounter someone on a trail with music
           | (this has not happened here in the northeast to me yet)
           | they'll encounter a string of direct to-face insults from me.
        
             | jszymborski wrote:
             | Lol please don't gate keep "nature". As if the only people
             | who play music on a hike are from or belong in cities.
             | 
             | The nice thing about the great outdoors is that there is
             | plenty of space for you and me, even if I were to play
             | music you can audibly detect from a meter away.
             | 
             | Look, I hope you find some other ways than insulting people
             | to express your displeasure in the future. That'll damage
             | both the mental health of the person your speaking to and
             | your own!
             | 
             | Take care out there!
        
         | shrx wrote:
         | If I'm hiking or cycling alone through the woods with high bear
         | populations, I will often play some music to alert them to
         | prevent an unpleasant encounter.
        
         | ipv6ipv4 wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | I used to hold this same opinion. Unfortunately, times have
         | changed and now everyone is constantly in their phones,
         | isolated in their own universes, typically with earbuds or
         | headphones. At least the obnoxious speaker dude is present; in
         | a shared physical reality with the world around him. A lesser
         | evil.
        
           | MrGinkgo wrote:
           | This is why god invented bone conducting headphones
        
             | ipv6ipv4 wrote:
             | That's still not a shared experience.
        
         | Izikiel43 wrote:
         | > Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a
         | bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want
         | to listen to music wear headphones!!
         | 
         | Wife is concerned about bears
        
         | pvtmert wrote:
         | there are many sibling/child comments here touching the
         | bluetooth speaker topic.
         | 
         | obviously there are numerous people blasting those in public
         | places in waay too high volume.
         | 
         |  _sometimes_ when I ride bicycle in non-car road (cycle /hiking
         | paths around luxembourg) i put not-too-loud music playing on
         | phone speaker (about 70% volume) both for _vibes_ and also for
         | safety. -- as there are people walking which may be obstructed
         | by the bushes or other oncoming cyclists.
         | 
         | for the vibes part, i am really hoping smart-glasses or similar
         | equipment to be more common, as i got echo frames last year, i
         | am quite happy about the _vibe_ it adds when i play
         | _background_ music (just to myself) in different occasions.
         | (even though quality is not great)
         | 
         | many people mentioned headphones & earbuds, but i do not see
         | them as the solution for nature/hiking related situations;
         | 
         | - (partial) blocking of external sounds, even if there is no
         | noise cancellation, it dims outside sounds like bike bells,
         | engine sounds, other people yelling at you because you are in
         | danger, ie. may cause accidents
         | 
         | - comfort & compatibility issues with other equipment. like
         | hearing aid (maybe that's the reason some people blasting away
         | such high volumes? -- maybe never hearing loss haven't
         | diagnosed properly!). if you have a helmet, over-head
         | headphones usually dont work, stuck with ear-buds. fit and
         | comfort of these are quite difficult. even if you use over-head
         | ones, cushions usually go bad quite fast due to mild sweating
         | or contact with external air & humidity.
         | 
         | i really hope price of bluetooth-speaker or bone-speaker
         | glasses will go down significantly in the future. this way, you
         | don't obstruct external sounds, not add heavy or squishy things
         | to your ear while adding your theme song on a moment.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | obviously i mention these as a _reasonable_ human being, who
         | keeps their phone in silent 7 /24, and all videos muted all the
         | time (i also mute my laptop, as i hate hearing other people's
         | zoom/chime calls constantly ringing throughout the day!)
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | The way I look at it when it comes to the comfort bits: if
           | you aren't comfortable using headphones to listen to your
           | music in a public place (for fit or safety or whatever
           | reasons), then you don't get to listen to your music. It's
           | just basic common courtesy. I find it mind-blowing that there
           | are so many comments in this subthread supporting this sort
           | of behavior.
           | 
           | I guarantee you that your 70% volume music while cycling is
           | audible to people much farther from you than you think, and
           | that many of those people are probably annoyed by it.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | I spent a good part of the summer weekends in the mountains
         | which are an hour's drive from my place.
         | 
         | Every minute someone in the distance would be flooring whatever
         | loud vehicle they were driving/riding - mostly motorcycles, but
         | I've heard a few cars.
         | 
         | Their enjoyment is everything, screw everyone else.
        
       | alturp wrote:
       | Audio jacks have to come back.
        
       | connorgurney wrote:
       | I might be in a minority saying this - and particularly so here
       | on HN - but I struggle to understand why you'd be willing to use
       | a tool like this, as OP did, but not to politely ask someone to
       | keep it down?
        
         | brk wrote:
         | Have you tried asking many people to "keep it down"? Generally
         | that doesn't end with them politely keeping it down.
        
           | connorgurney wrote:
           | As with anything in life, it depends on how you ask.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | You mean
             | 
             | "As with anything in life it depends on a huge number of
             | variables such as location, number of allies the other
             | person has, the threat potential you represent, the number
             | of allies you have, your standing on the social ladder, if
             | you're in a position of power, your ability to understand
             | social clues, the exact method how you ask, yada yada"
        
               | ArnoVW wrote:
               | No. It delends on how you ask.
               | 
               | Did you walk over? Did you say hi? Did you lower yourself
               | to be around their height? Give them a second or two to
               | get used to you? Tell them first that their noise is loud
               | ? Ask them in a respectable tone if they would lower it,
               | just a bit? Did you give the impression that you were
               | asking, not demanding?
               | 
               | Of course I won't ask a drunk or aggressive looking
               | person. But there is a wrong way to ask, and a better
               | one.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | I'm all for asking nicely in general but it doesn't work
               | well with entitled people who don't give a shit about the
               | people around them.
               | 
               | The chances, regardless how nice you try to ask, that the
               | person who elected to broadcast their tiktoks or calls to
               | the whole wagon at full volume goes "oh, sorry, I'm so
               | embarrassed, I'll turn this off", are very low.
               | 
               | Last time I tried to ask "can you use headphones?", the
               | guy answered "I don't have headphones" and put the volume
               | even louder.
               | 
               | A person who cared even a tiny bit would not have started
               | to begin with. Asking is almost futile. These people
               | simply seem to be used to get away with inflicting
               | themselves to people around without consequences. The
               | worse part is that if you do nothing, you participate in
               | this.
               | 
               | What can you do.
               | 
               | I think it can only work if it becomes very socially
               | unbearable, or if they got fined for this. Or, indeed, if
               | it brought them nuisance. In that regard, this HN post's
               | solution is interesting (not sure it's good though).
        
               | pvtmert wrote:
               | i agree with this one, in this particular order, how
               | things be in large cities & crowded areas:
               | 
               | - loud person does not care in the first place, that's
               | why they do the loud act
               | 
               | - usually they are more than 1 person, outnumbering me
               | 
               | - although some places have public disturbance prohibited
               | laws, unless there is a law enforcement/security around,
               | chances of me being ending up in a hospital is higher
               | than chances of stumbling on a decent person
               | 
               | - it is easier to act or play stupid
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | on a similar note, last time when i asked someone to
               | lower their volume while having headphones on me, they
               | demanded my headphones because they claimed they were too
               | poor to buy one. -- i am talking about 20$ type-c earbuds
               | vs 16" macbook size marshall speaker. -- as a result, i
               | did not give my headphones and they continued to play
               | music.
        
               | dartharva wrote:
               | > Did you walk over? Did you say hi? Did you lower
               | yourself to be around their height? Give them a second or
               | two to get used to you?
               | 
               | I personally detest the kind of people who behave like
               | this. It all just exudes deliberate fakeness; if anyone
               | were to try this on me I'll only be irritated more than
               | anything else.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | > _Of course I won 't ask a drunk or aggressive looking
               | person._
               | 
               | I've learned in my time in cities that it can be very
               | hard to judge who is likely to be aggressive and who
               | isn't.
        
               | jasondigitized wrote:
               | No it doesn't. That's equivalent to saying you can get
               | most woman to date you depending on how you ask.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | I'm not really sure where you're from or what sheltered
               | life you've lived but this does not jive with reality
               | what so ever.
               | 
               | Seems like you're from western Europe, and maybe people
               | are nicer there, but once you get to a place with strong
               | racism, classism, wealth disparity, you suddenly find
               | that being civil has little weight.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | I left my Mac on top of my car in San Francisco once and
             | the next day when I came back it was still there. The thing
             | with catastrophic events that occur at 1% is that even if
             | everyone were to risk it ten times (that's a huge amount
             | for this I think) 9 out of every 10 people would say "nah,
             | nothing happens, I've done it ten times without anything
             | happening" but then 1 out of 10 would die.
             | 
             | So then the question becomes how well you've sampled that
             | catastrophic risk before you say what the real risk is. As
             | an example, I've been mask off and partying since as soon
             | as that became legal. Haven't gotten sick from COVID yet.
             | Shows, house parties, sharing drinks with people who later
             | had it. Tested often because I was this high risk. Zero
             | positives.
             | 
             | I could say "actually, if you just do the things that I did
             | you'll be fine". After all, I've been fine. Nothing
             | happened. I just didn't get sick. I've got the winning
             | formula.
        
               | netcoyote wrote:
               | > I left my Mac on top of my car in San Francisco once
               | and the next day when I came back it was still there.
               | 
               | Not the latest model, huh? That's certainly a passive-
               | aggressive way to suggest you upgrade...
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | I was mask _on_ and at a bar literally on the day they
               | lifted the capacity restrictions, and came down with
               | COVID days later. I was the lucky 1 in 10!
        
             | tonymet wrote:
             | in my experience, the more polite you are, the more likely
             | you are to get punched in the face
             | 
             | If you are in a venue where politely asking someone to keep
             | it down, results in them actually responding, you generally
             | don't need to ask. You are among conscientious people to
             | begin with.
             | 
             | For the most part, about 99% of the time, the whole point
             | of drawing attention is waiting for someone to politely ask
             | them to turn it down. And it isn't so they can respond in
             | kind.
        
             | RationPhantoms wrote:
             | While I agree and I'm not the OP you're replying to this
             | feels like the burden of societal correction needs to be on
             | the wronged and not on the person committing it?
             | 
             | It's tolerating the intolerant (their intolerance to
             | understanding social order). They need to be bludgeoned
             | back (metaphorically).
        
             | on_the_train wrote:
             | No. People who are loud do that because they want to be
             | loud. They want to hurt people. And they get off to
             | weaklings being polite. The law is too slow and too
             | forgiving for these destructive forces. We need to bring
             | violence back in a big way.
        
           | bpev wrote:
           | I've seen a fistfight on the muni that started from this.
        
           | charles_f wrote:
           | In my experience, if you ask it politely and nicely, it
           | works. I can't recall a time when it didn't.
        
         | user- wrote:
         | I mean, he took a picture of the guy posted it on his twitter
         | calling him a 'fat uncle'. I don't think he cares about being
         | polite.
        
           | lbrito wrote:
           | Is "fat uncle" a slang I don't know about?
        
             | komadori wrote:
             | In some Asian cultures, "uncle" can be used to refer to any
             | man older than yourself.
        
             | knollimar wrote:
             | Is uncle just old unmarried guy?
        
           | sergiomattei wrote:
           | Real courageous from that guy calling someone a "fat uncle"
           | on a Twitter thread. Could've applied that same energy IRL
           | and told him to tone it down.
        
           | throwaway150 wrote:
           | You have to understand though that this is X (rip twitter) we
           | are talking about and from the verified account, the 14k
           | follower count, it is evident that this person either is or
           | is trying to be a tech "influencer". Posting controversial
           | rage-baits is pretty much the pattern every influencer
           | follows today to stir up discussion, increase their
           | visibility, and get more followers.
           | 
           | > I don't think he cares about being polite.
           | 
           | If you're polite, debate civilly, say reasonable things and
           | act like a normal person, you are a nobody on X. Nobody will
           | see your tweet. Nobody will engage with it. You might as well
           | have not said anything.
        
         | varjag wrote:
         | It's a way to avoid direct confrontation via passive
         | aggression.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | Yeah except being passive aggressive actually tends to
           | escalate the situation. Because sometimes people will just
           | respond to a polite question, but now you've just been the
           | same asshole to them, so there is a higher chance that
           | they're just going to get offended.
        
             | varjag wrote:
             | The whole PA phenomenology originates from the military,
             | where hierarchy prevents direct confrontation. So
             | subordinates lash out in ways that are harder to counter. I
             | feel like it's a similar dynamic here.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | Absolutely, but the key word in the GP's use of "avoid
             | direct confrontation" is _direct_. Being passive-aggressive
             | is indirect, and even if it 's more likely to cause an
             | escalation, to many people it feels safer, even if it
             | really isn't.
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | Because social anxiety, typically. "What if the person tells me
         | to fuck off? What if they make a scene of it?" Especially if
         | six years ago you are the person who was in your teenage years,
         | chances are your social skills are not what they could be if
         | you didn't spend a year in lockdowns.
         | 
         | Conversely, if you are the kind of person able to come up to a
         | stranger and ask them (politely and respectfully!) to change
         | what they are doing, you likely the person with the social
         | skill to do other things well too.
        
           | connorgurney wrote:
           | I follow that, and it's something I've struggled with in the
           | past, but doesn't this sort of solution make them more likely
           | to tell you to fuck off or to make a scene, rather than less?
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | What are they going to make a scene about? You playing
             | audio loudly in a public space? They kind of ran out of
             | legs to stand on a while ago.
        
             | simonbw wrote:
             | It seems harder to justify telling someone to fuck off for
             | doing literally the exact same thing you're currently
             | doing.
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | Imagine you are sitting in public watching TikTok videos
             | and someone sitting two seats down from you just turns on
             | this app. Are you more likely to say "hey sorry mate I
             | didn't realize it was bothering you." or are you more
             | likely to turn it up louder and/or tell them to fuck off?
             | 
             | Now imagine the same situation but the person comes up to
             | you and says "excuse me but would you mind turning your
             | volume down a bit or using headphones? The sound from your
             | phone is really bugging me and I would really appreciate
             | it." Which situation is more likely to piss you off?
             | 
             | And sure you might respond poorly to both but I see no
             | universe in which you respond positively to the first while
             | I think there is a good chance you respond well to the
             | second.
             | 
             | On the other hand if the person approaches you and says
             | "hey buddy turn that shit down".. but the kind of person to
             | use this 2 second delay thing in my experience would never
             | have the confidence to do something like that so not even
             | worth considering.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > Because social anxiety, typically. "What if the person
           | tells me to fuck off? What if they make a scene of it?"
           | 
           | As opposed to building a tool to actively annoy them without
           | politely asking them a question? This doesn't follow.
           | 
           | I doubt the tool was actually used.
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | That's my point. This tool is pointless because while it is
             | designed to avoid confrontation it nearly guarantees it. A
             | waste of bits, as it were.
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | It's not social anxiety. It's fear of being shot.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | What a great society
        
           | maximilianroos wrote:
           | What did you think "building social skills" meant? vibe coded
           | apps?
           | 
           | Gotta start somewhere!
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | Just wait until Claude doesn't want to be friends anymore
             | and Alexa isn't returning your calls. Siri will always talk
             | to you but you don't want to talk to her :)
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | I have seen fights break out in the subway over people being
         | loud. People playing loud music in public often seem to be the
         | types to be looking for trouble, they want someone to tell them
         | to turn it down, so they can say no and escalate. In a lot of
         | cities this is a big risk.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | This app is even more hostile.
        
             | ecshafer wrote:
             | The app is more hostile, I agree. Its a bad idea, and a
             | good way to get beaten up.
        
           | boarsofcanada wrote:
           | To this point, there have been at least a few stories of
           | elderly people being beaten on San Francisco public transit
           | for politely asking people to turn their music down.
        
             | tkel wrote:
             | OK, I read about someone being murdered by their spouse.
             | That doesn't mean it is going to happen to me. The media
             | reports on sensational stories. That doesn't make them
             | normal.
        
               | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
               | You tend to know your spouse, you don't know the mental
               | state of people on the train. Especially people who have
               | already demonstrated they don't care about social norms
               | or preserving tranquility in public spaces.
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | I remember one guy had a whole DJ setup on the subway once.
           | Like he had a table, a laptop, several large speakers, a
           | microphone, monitor headphones, the works. He would have been
           | right at home DJing a kids birthday party.
           | 
           | The music he was playing was ridiculously bad. Obviously
           | subjective but this was such terrible low effort stuff that I
           | am not sure it would even make it to SoundCloud. Think "your
           | stoner friend's demo tape you try to listen to but can't get
           | more than three minutes in"
           | 
           | We were in a long tunnel and he turned the volume up, which I
           | don't think anyone wanted. I yell over the speaker and say he
           | should that shit off. He said people here want it, to which I
           | say "no they actually don't. See how everyone here has
           | headphones on? If your music was any good you wouldn't have
           | to force people to listen to it as hostages. If you want to
           | actually test this then go to Washington Square Park, not the
           | fucking train".
           | 
           | He called me an asshole, turned the music even louder, and
           | kept it going until I left the train. I don't think he agreed
           | with my reasoning.
        
         | itodd wrote:
         | i would hope you're not the minority. i'm in your camp.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | This feels like a case of imaginary revenge. I doubt the tool
         | was actually used. Creating this tool was part of a revenge
         | fantasy.
         | 
         | If someone has too much social anxiety or is too afraid to
         | politely ask the other person to turn it down, using an
         | actively annoying option like this isn't going to help. This is
         | more likely to induce a confrontation.
        
         | nozzlegear wrote:
         | My wife and I were sitting in the coffee shop/dining area of
         | our grocery store not long ago, eating breakfast before we
         | bought our groceries. There's a gentleman who's usually there
         | on the same weekend days that we are, and he watches videos on
         | his phone _very_ loudly. It was clearly annoying everyone
         | around, but this being Minnesota, nobody was going to bother
         | him about it (instead they just do little glances over their
         | shoulder or the  "OPE" eyes at each other lol).
         | 
         | Finally, one older woman gets up and walks over to him. My wife
         | and I are like "Oh shit, she's gonna let him have it, here it
         | comes." She taps him on the shoulder and says "Excuse me, can
         | you turn that down? It's very loud." And you know what he did?
         | He said "Oh, sorry," and turned it down.
         | 
         | She said thanks and went back to her seat, simple as that.
        
           | tkel wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing your story about how simple normal
           | requests lead to simple normal social outcomes.
           | 
           | The isolation and atomization of modern individualized living
           | has led people to be so controlled by their anti-social
           | anxieties, fear, and loathing of other people, that they and
           | OP won't even try.
        
           | gsinclair wrote:
           | That's good, and I also have spoken to people in public about
           | their noise several times, but...
           | 
           | That dude shouldn't be turning it down; he should be turning
           | it off.
           | 
           | My go-to line is: "Excuse me, do you have any earphones?"
        
           | jspash wrote:
           | You've never met my neighbours! No seriously. Some people are
           | just jerks.
        
         | lacoolj wrote:
         | lol this is a very good point
         | 
         | if you have the balls to do this next to someone, they will
         | immediately recognize what you're doing right after they stop
         | (if they stop).
         | 
         | that's gonna be 100x more awkward than asking them politely
         | would have been.
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | Agreed. Especially since something like this seems much more
         | likely to get the other person to turn on you. It's passive
         | aggressive.
        
         | cvoss wrote:
         | It's a great example of (effective, apparently) passive
         | aggression, and, I would guess, is motivated by all the same
         | reasons as any other kind of passive aggression. E.g., fear of
         | open confrontation, or a desire to create a situation that is
         | just as or more undesirable for them so that the other person
         | actively chooses the thing you want, of their own free will.
        
         | raffael_de wrote:
         | It is very difficult to stay polite while getting very angry.
         | Politeness is usually reserved for respectful people. If
         | somebody acts in a way that is perceived as intentionally
         | disrespectful (whether that's actually the case or not), there
         | is a severe psychological dissonance to overcome. Also
         | physiologically people will get nervous, voice shaking, facial
         | tension and twitching, heart racing, mind getting foggy when
         | severely agitated which makes trying to act polite even more
         | difficult. It's easier and seemingly more sensible to just skip
         | straight to snapping or ... bottling the rage up to eventually
         | release it against somebody sufficiently harmless - humans are
         | monkeys after all (which isn't even necessarily bad, we should
         | just strive for civilizing the chimp and strengthening the
         | bonobo within us.)
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | > _didn 't have the courage to speak up._
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | Think of it as catering to the fantasy of a geek's revenge.
         | 
         | The keyword is fantasy.
         | 
         | > so i built a tiny app that plays back the same audio it
         | hears, delayed by ~2 seconds. asked claude, it spat out a
         | working version in one prompt. surprisingly WORKS.
         | 
         | Note, they never said they actually played it and then person
         | realized they were being disrespectful and stopped. That whole
         | scenario is supposed to happen in a hypothetic fantasy world,
         | and every reader here is supposed to take in the same way for
         | themselves.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | But still, I think the solution is brilliant and I can't wait
           | to try it.
           | 
           | If you ask someone to turn it down, it can immediately come
           | off as confrontational, even if you're being polite. With
           | this solution, though, it's kind of hilarious because in one
           | sense it's _more_ confrontational, but the original music
           | blaster would have to ask _you_ to turn it down - but it 's
           | just _their_ music.
           | 
           | I'm a pretty nonconfrontational person, but the one time I
           | lost it was when this late middle aged woman kept chatting
           | away on her cell phone in the quiet car of the LIRR despite
           | other people previously telling her that she was in the quiet
           | car (I believe my exact words were "Hey princess, what part
           | of 'no cellphones' do you not understand" - there is a giant
           | sign at the front of the car that says no cellphone use). But
           | I don't think I'd ever do this in a public situation where
           | the rules weren't so clearly spelled out.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | It's also incredibly passive aggressive and passive
           | aggression is one of the most reliable ways to trigger
           | defiance in someone.
           | 
           | At least it is for me. Especially when it's my moth... you
           | know what? Never mind. If I keep going I'll spiral out.
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | Because then you don't end up with an idea for a coding
         | project.
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | My experience has been that people are usually (>50% of the
         | time) offended and non-compliant, no matter how politely you
         | ask. Who am I to ask them to be quieter? They only stop if
         | something annoying is happening for them, like this app, or
         | audibly responding to their call/video.
        
         | sergiomattei wrote:
         | Seriously, this is as easy as tapping the dude next door and
         | telling him to tone that volume down.
         | 
         | Negative social skills on that Twitter thread
        
         | cheema33 wrote:
         | I was at a Bills game in Buffalo last year. 5 rows ahead of me
         | was big tall dude, who stood up and would not sit down. This
         | was blocking the view of everybody behind him. People grumbled,
         | but nobody said or did anything for about 20 minutes. I was
         | quite peeved. Then an old lady right behind him gently tapped
         | him on his shoulder and reminded him that he was blocking the
         | view of several people behind him. The dude shrugged his
         | shoulder and said, "not my problem, you can stand up too if you
         | want". I am a mega-nerd, but I lost my cool right there and
         | then and started screaming at the guy. My girlfriend, who
         | didn't want to see me get beat up, pulled me away from the
         | scene.
         | 
         | Many people are just massive assholes. Asking nicely does not
         | work. Particularly big drunk dudes at an American football
         | game. That was my first and last visit to a football stadium.
        
           | valleyer wrote:
           | That really sucks, but don't deprive yourself of something
           | you think you might enjoy because of that one jackass.
           | Chances are that next time you won't experience something
           | like that.
           | 
           | Also, basically every pro and semi-pro sports stadium
           | nowadays has cell-phone-contactable security that you can
           | summon to handle situations like these. The threat of being
           | kicked out of his $250 seats is way more of a threat than
           | that of being confronted by a "mega-nerd".
           | 
           | I wouldn't make a habit of contacting security over every
           | little annoyance, but if they're obnoxiously blocking an old
           | lady, that's the time to use it.
           | 
           | P.S.: your karma is currently 1337, sweet
        
             | bigDinosaur wrote:
             | Seek sympathetic allies and then contact relevant
             | authorities is probably the best general piece of advice on
             | dealing with any kind of conflict.
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | Exactly! Every time I asked someone respectfully to lower their
         | noise, it worked. Most times they apologized, I think sometimes
         | people don't realize they're annoying others. It might be
         | intimidating the first couple of times, but it's so much better
         | to feel assertive and _not_ be annoyed anymore.
         | 
         | Last time this happened was in a bar, there was a pianist
         | playing, and a group sat right next to the piano and started
         | being very noisy. I went and asked them to lower their voices.
         | They apologized, and shut up entirely. Later, someone came to
         | thank me for that.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I would never dare using that tool, it feels
         | a bit childish and would make me feel like such an ass!
        
         | baby wrote:
         | This. People are scared of human interactions more and more.
         | It's all about being passive agressive or avoiding the good ol'
         | conformism through connection.
         | 
         | On the other hand if you can force people to behave through
         | machine processes it's much more effective than human processes
        
         | subjectsigma wrote:
         | There's two options:
         | 
         | 1. This is a lighthearted joke that someone made after having a
         | bad experience with others being noisy in public. (Most likely
         | scenario.)
         | 
         | 2. The author is going to actually use this tool in public, in
         | which case they are either a power-tripping asshole who gets
         | off on "outsmarting" people, or a limp-wristed coward without
         | basic social skills.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | > me being me, didn't have the courage to speak up
       | 
       | I hardly imagine a situation where speaking up is less
       | "couraging" than using such tool to mock annoying person.
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | I think the word you're looking for is courageous.
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | I imagine they keep their headphones on or play it off as the
         | device doing it on it's own. The "work" of having to solve the
         | problem hasn't gone away, but it has been translated from
         | social into lying by omission and performative contradiction.
         | 
         | EDIT: By performative contradiction I mean doing the thing the
         | person is doing to demonstrate the contradiction.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Speaking up would have a higher failure rate. Speaking up
         | overtly stimulates the annoying person's defensiveness and
         | propensity to challenge back. Subtle manipulation always works
         | better.
        
       | rw_panic0_0 wrote:
       | solving problems with tech that are solvable with speaking to ppl
       | is crazy social anxiety spares no one
        
       | EvanAnderson wrote:
       | I saw a video a few years ago with people speaking into
       | microphones connected to a digital delay attached to headphones
       | they wore. With something like a 200 - 300ms delay most people
       | could only speak a few words before becoming unable to speak
       | intelligibly.
       | 
       | Something like that, with a directional microphone and one of
       | those eerie directional speaker rigs I find in retail stores
       | could be tons of fun for those irritating people who insist on
       | using speaker phone in public.
        
       | arlattimore wrote:
       | > made with spite
        
         | ikamm wrote:
         | Prompted with spite
        
       | thadt wrote:
       | In the 80's we had a way to deal with that kind of thing [1].
       | Just gotta practice to get the technique right.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1GyHQiuneU
        
         | ta2112 wrote:
         | Exactly! Also, that random ride across the bridge towards Marin
         | is taking forever
        
         | fusslo wrote:
         | I had this exact scene in my mind and I am glad I am not alone,
         | friend
        
       | lazarus01 wrote:
       | Very funny!
       | 
       | I believe the concept of public decency is entirely cultural and
       | has less to do with courage.
       | 
       | Where I live, if someone is being loud in public, you usually
       | keep to yourself. So long as they are not being overtly offensive
       | or profane.
       | 
       | In other countries, like the Netherlands for example, people will
       | have no problem telling you to be quiet or verbalize any
       | violation of cultural norms. I believe it's like that in Germany
       | and Scanda as well, from what I hear.
        
       | arjie wrote:
       | There was an exhibit at the Exploratorium demonstrating a similar
       | effect. You speak into a device and it plays your voice back to
       | you delayed. If you're also listening for the other person this
       | makes it impossible to speak. You can easily ignore it by just
       | not paying attention to the audio back but it's surprising how,
       | if you have to listen, this delay ruins everything. Someone
       | saying a different thing, on the other hand, is easy to listen to
       | while speaking.
        
       | bevelwork wrote:
       | That reminds of seeing Mike Rowe do something like this that just
       | broke my brain of doing exactly that for extended periods of time
       | for voice over work.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/J4LhdU3a1KM?t=111
        
       | test1072 wrote:
       | https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/Pankajtanw...
       | 
       | It's working. Op might consider adding to readme
        
       | sodafountan wrote:
       | I wonder if the future of AI is that we all just create our own
       | programs out of thin air like this. Like if I need something, I
       | just describe it to AI, and within seconds, it's generated and
       | ready to use.
       | 
       | Operating systems become redundant; you open any digital device,
       | and it's just a portal into the most advanced LLM on the planet.
       | 
       | Obviously just spitballing here.
       | 
       | I wonder how far AI will advance.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Operating systems, no. You still have to access what is going
         | to be standardized hardware and make the analog bits behave
         | digitally at low power.
         | 
         | Applications, yea, 100%.
        
           | sodafountan wrote:
           | I found it interesting that the OP defaulted to using an AI
           | agent for his voice recording software rather than doing a
           | Google search. Perhaps a sign of things to come? I would've
           | chosen Google, but maybe I'll be falling behind in the
           | future.
           | 
           | Aside from getting an LLM up and running on a device, what's
           | stopping AI from creating an operating system? I admittedly
           | don't know much about operating system development, but
           | aren't most operating systems written primarily in C?
           | 
           | I guess what I meant by that is it would be interesting if
           | the AI prompt itself were the OS, and all software would be
           | generated via prompting the agent. No downloads, just a "What
           | do you need?" prompt with the AI generating everything on the
           | fly.
           | 
           | Perhaps becoming so fast that you wouldn't even notice it
           | thinking. Just: "I need to edit a document that was sent to
           | my email" The AI would then retrieve the email, download the
           | document and generate its own text editor to display the
           | document in. All within a few milliseconds.
           | 
           | Call it AIOS
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | >AI from creating an operating system?
             | 
             | Nothing really... Creating a working operating system and
             | understanding all the hardware bugs it could run into is a
             | different story.
             | 
             | Simply put when you look at the combined energy expenditure
             | to create something like Windows or Linux and the numbers
             | would likely stagger a person, like hundreds of gigawatts,
             | hell probably terrawatts. This entropy expenditure is
             | reduced by us sharing the code. This is the same reason we
             | don't have that many top end AI models. The amount of
             | energy you need to spend for one is massive.
             | 
             | Intelligence doesn't mean you should do everything
             | yourself. Sharing and stealing are solutions used in the
             | animal kingdom as alternate solutions to the limited fuel
             | problem.
        
               | sodafountan wrote:
               | Hardware bugs can be documented for an LLM to learn from;
               | it's really just a chicken-and-egg problem. There are
               | plenty of open-source, working operating systems for LLMs
               | to learn from as well.
               | 
               | And yes, I understand code re-use and distribution are
               | valuable, and that's a good point. Having an LLM generate
               | everything on the fly is definitely energy-intensive, but
               | that hasn't stopped the world from building massive data
               | centers to support it, regardless.
               | 
               | I guess the theory of my past few posts would be similar
               | to rolling updates, so using the text editor as an
               | example, you'd prompt the AI agent in the hypothetical OS
               | to open a document, and it would generate a word
               | processor on the fly, referencing the dozens of open
               | source repos for word processors and pushing its own
               | contributions back out into the world for reference by
               | other LLMs - computationally expensive, yes. It would
               | then learn from your behaviors, utilizing the program,
               | and the next time you'd prompt the OS for a word-
               | processor-like feature (I'm imagining an MS-DOS-like
               | prompt), it would iterate on that existing idea or
               | program - less computationally expensive because ideally
               | the bulk of the work is already learned. Perhaps adding
               | new features or key-bindings as it sees fit. I understand
               | that hard-disk space is cheap, and you'd probably want
               | some space to store personal files, but the OS could
               | theoretically load your program directly into RAM once
               | it's compiled from AI-generated source code. Removing the
               | need to save programs themselves to disk.
               | 
               | Since LLMs are globally distributed, they're learning
               | from all human interactions and are actively developing
               | cutting-edge word processors tailored specifically to the
               | end-users' needs. More of a VIM-style user? The LLM can
               | pick up on that, prefer something more like MS Word? The
               | LLM is learning that too. AIOS slowly becomes geared
               | directly to you, the end-user.
               | 
               | That really has nothing to do with intelligence; you're
               | just teaching a computer how to compute, which is what AI
               | is all about.
               | 
               | Just some ideas on what the future might hold.
        
       | lbrito wrote:
       | People blasting awful music any time of the day or night,
       | anywhere (neighbours, beachgoers, public park, transit) is enough
       | of a problem in my country (Brazil) that arduino/Raspberry
       | Pi/ESP32-based bluetooth jammers are somewhat common.
       | 
       | I would never try to use it though, as you can very realistically
       | get killed in retaliation.
        
         | mystifyingpoi wrote:
         | How could you get in trouble (aside of this probably being
         | illegal, at least I know it is in my country)? How would people
         | know that you are jamming the signal, and not someone else?
        
           | lbrito wrote:
           | Non-asshole-seeming people tend to be, unbeknownst to
           | themselves, conspicuous in these scenarios
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | Here's one I don't know how to solve: at work some folks take
       | meetings in the bathroom. They're on their phone, they walk to a
       | stall, do their... business while doing their business, all the
       | while talking and listening, while toilets flush in the
       | background.
       | 
       | I understand cultural differences but taking business meetings in
       | the bathroom seems inappropriate under effectively all
       | circumstances.
        
         | sublinear wrote:
         | Report it to HR
        
           | pelagicAustral wrote:
           | Under what punishable figure, pissing while working?
        
             | sublinear wrote:
             | HR is not merely about punitive measures.
             | 
             | This would be escalated to upper management to find out why
             | people are under so much time pressure that they need to
             | take calls in the bathroom, and at the very least doing so
             | would be made some kind of violation of new policy.
             | 
             | These are the kinds of reports the organization needs as
             | ammunition in order to fix what sound like bigger problems
             | with the organization and work culture. There's very little
             | chance this hasn't been noticed and isn't a symptom of
             | something more going on.
        
               | closewith wrote:
               | > This would be escalated to upper management to find out
               | why people are under so much time pressure that they need
               | to take calls in the bathroom, and at the very least
               | doing so would be made some kind of violation of new
               | policy.
               | 
               | Or why there are people so idle that they can defecate
               | without working.
               | 
               | Remember, HR protects the company, and complaints about
               | heavy hitters because they work on porcelain aren't going
               | to reflect well on the complainant.
        
               | sublinear wrote:
               | Yes, that old chestnut. It's such insanely toxic advice
               | too.
               | 
               | You're correct that HR is there to protect the company.
               | The original post did not specify "heavy hitters", nor
               | did I ever say to make an accusatory report. HR doesn't
               | have to specifically know who is taking their calls this
               | way.
               | 
               | I'm sorry if you or others have had such bad experiences
               | with the most basic of HR interactions, though if I
               | assume you're taking your own advice I doubt you've ever
               | tried.
               | 
               | There's the tactful way to do this, and then there's
               | whining to HR. I would be very careful taking advice from
               | whiners because they're the ones who keep propagating
               | this bad faith myth about HR.
               | 
               | All I'm saying to do is notify them about ongoing
               | behavior with an emphasis on how it probably makes the
               | company look bad and that it's done by many. They don't
               | care who is doing it and it's not personal. I'd honestly
               | be very surprised if this behavior doesn't already fall
               | under some existing policy.
        
               | closewith wrote:
               | > I'm sorry if you or others have had such bad
               | experiences with the most basic of HR interactions,
               | though if I assume you're taking your own advice I doubt
               | you've ever tried
               | 
               | I use HR to protect my company from people like you.
        
               | sublinear wrote:
               | And there it is.
               | 
               | It's exactly as I suspected. The only people spreading
               | the toxic advice about HR are the ones who benefit most
               | from making the workplace suck for everyone else.
               | 
               | I can only hope you just think HR is there to insulate
               | you this way and haven't had to test it, because it
               | simply isn't. You really don't want to be on the losing
               | end of a wrongful termination suit. It's only because
               | people rarely bother that you may not have come across
               | one of those. Then it then escalates to worse when all of
               | HR spills their guts about the pressure they were under
               | to protect higher ups.
               | 
               | There is no loyalty after all. It's just a job to
               | everyone else.
        
               | closewith wrote:
               | HR insulates me and the rest of the heavy hitters from
               | people like you. It's a Godsend, obviously.
               | 
               | Surveilling co-workers in the bathroom is more than
               | sufficient grounds for dismissal - gross misconduct.
        
               | sublinear wrote:
               | It's obviously not surveillance, and if it's as common as
               | OP made it seem everyone already knows.
               | 
               | HR isn't that dumb and doesn't need to find another
               | squealer.
        
           | chasd00 wrote:
           | If the Supreme Court can do it then why not Jan in backend
           | dev?
           | 
           | https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-
           | supreme...
        
         | keeganpoppen wrote:
         | this is, and forgive me the lowering of quality discourse here,
         | what ripping one's loudest farts and triple flushing is for. if
         | they are so important that they can live through the
         | embarrassment that i would assume 99.9% of people would feel in
         | that situation, then good on 'em.
        
           | Henchman21 wrote:
           | Being unable to feel embarrassment is not a "good on 'em"
           | situation. The inability to feel shame is a serious
           | impairment of one's faculties. It is literal brain damage.
        
         | HendrikHensen wrote:
         | Go to the stall next door, play pooping and farting noises on
         | your phone, very loudly.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | I really don't need a phone to do that. That's what I'm in
           | there for already.
        
         | RomanPushkin wrote:
         | Have you thought it could be because of the pressure they're
         | getting at work? Today you're forced to work when you're sick,
         | to do your business while doing your business...
         | 
         | I agree that flushing toilets could have been muted, but isn't
         | it a Zoom/Google-Meets issue when they're supposed to remove
         | the noise?
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | Crushing it! And flushing it.
        
         | jlarocco wrote:
         | A previous CTO at my company would do this and it always
         | weirded me out. Standing at the urinal, and suddenly hear him
         | talking to a customer over in the stall. Very strange and
         | uncomfortable.
         | 
         | I won't lie, though, I secretly enjoyed timing flushes to match
         | when he was talking.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | > timing flushes
           | 
           | Or porcelain-shattering dumps. Such a liberating experience
           | by itself in a public bathroom, doing it to someone on the
           | phone would give me a memory that would bring a smile to my
           | lips for many years.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Agree that this is very annoying and I can't imagine taking
         | calls much less having discussions while on the toilet.
        
         | logicx24 wrote:
         | Robert Caro, in the LBJ series, wrote about how LBJ would use
         | the discomfort of being the bathroom as a negotiating technique
         | and a show of dominance. He would drag senators into the
         | bathroom and force them to listen to him talk as he used the
         | urinal, or force his staffers to take dictation as he took a
         | shit.
        
           | darth_avocado wrote:
           | I have seen more than one CEOs of big companies do this. The
           | number VPs is probably a lot more.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | The TV show Veep is great. She behaves like this sort of
             | arsehole, with utterly crass behaviour, and coming from a
             | female makes it more striking.
             | 
             | Amazing show.
        
               | scns wrote:
               | Thanks for the tip, looks interesting
        
           | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
           | Apparently he urinated on the shoes of a secret service agent
           | just as a flex.
        
           | tyleo wrote:
           | Crazily enough, I've also heard he pulled his Johnson out in
           | meetings.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | There is a joke here somewhere.
        
             | treetalker wrote:
             | Toobin would like a word.
        
               | no-dr-onboard wrote:
               | Toobin had many words. Most of them were onomatopoeias.
        
             | waffletower wrote:
             | I'd like to say that is where the slang originates, but
             | perhaps it just gave him extra license.
        
             | teaearlgraycold wrote:
             | And called it Jumbo
        
           | newsoftheday wrote:
           | Also, LBJ allegedly unzipped his fly and exposed himself to
           | reporters demanding to know why the U.S. was in Vietnam,
           | declaring, "This is why!".
        
             | knowitnone3 wrote:
             | his limp biscuit is why the US was in Vietnam? Was Vietnam
             | hording the viagra? The US sure has a history of
             | psychopathic presidents.
        
               | moorederodeo wrote:
               | It seems he was well-endowed
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/50ej3a/ho
               | w_d...
        
               | nailer wrote:
               | "limp biscuit" is an activity, not a euphemism for a
               | penis.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soggy_biscuit
        
           | anal_reactor wrote:
           | Try this on me. It won't work.
        
           | strangattractor wrote:
           | We now know why he served only one term:)
        
             | kgwxd wrote:
             | These days, stunts like that might get you a third term.
        
             | furyofantares wrote:
             | Well, one and a half.
        
             | normie3000 wrote:
             | Why? It sounds like he was a number two term president.
        
               | strangattractor wrote:
               | It was somewhat of a joke;) He completed Kennedy's term
               | and and was only only elected once. He refused to run for
               | a 3rd. Given the immense ego's of these guys one might
               | assume it was because he was unlikely to win. Peeing on
               | people is unlikely to win you a lot of friends.
        
         | abalashov wrote:
         | I understand the overwhelming opposition to this, and I
         | wouldn't do it myself. However, I lead a life of very few
         | meetings (I'd actually appreciate more--this stance puts me in
         | a very small company, to be sure), so it's easy for me to say
         | that one should be more judicious with one's timing.
         | 
         | I can emphathise with someone stuck in meetings all day in a
         | predominantly listening role, that they consider perfunctory or
         | mostly pointless, or maybe in a very active role that has them
         | stressfully bouncing from meeting to meeting.
         | 
         | I can easily envision how this would lead to a kind of
         | nihilistic resignation and a determination to just do normal
         | life stuff with a headset on one's head.
        
           | gouggoug wrote:
           | There's a difference between passively listening to a meeting
           | and actively participating, while being in the bathroom.
           | 
           | I would never do either. But one is less weird than the
           | other.
        
             | array_key_first wrote:
             | And if you're going to be playing audio in the bathroom,
             | any audio, wear some god damn headphones. I don't want to
             | listen to your standup or your tiktok.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | Exactly. If you're just listening on a headset and are
             | muted, then it's way less obnoxious.
        
           | krick wrote:
           | As a matter of fact, I do NOT understand the overwhelming
           | opposition to this. What's your deal if a guy is good at
           | multitasking and people on the other end of the wire don't
           | mind it? It isn't like he is desecrating a temple, or
           | intruding into your home and using _your_ toilet, or jerking
           | off in the public... Wait, actually I 'd say even the latter
           | shouldn't be your business, unless he stains something. Why
           | cannot people mind their own business?
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | I do not wish to hear anyone else's bathroom noises. Yes,
             | we all use the bathroom. No, I still don't want to hear
             | anyone else doing it.
        
               | krick wrote:
               | Even that I'd call somewhat petty, but it is more
               | defensible if it's insulting to you when you hear toilet
               | noises from your phone, and you are totally in your right
               | to tell it straight to the person who is calling you,
               | that it's hard to hear him behind all farts and flushes.
               | That's ok. People here seem to be complaining that
               | _somebody else_ is talking to _somebody else_ on a phone
               | while being in the public (office) toilet. I mean, I
               | kinda understand if it distracts them from their business
               | due to some psychological difficulties they may have, but
               | that 's the public toilet design fault when you cannot
               | feel isolated enough, not the guy's talking.
        
               | socalgal2 wrote:
               | Talk about a spoiled 1st world problem
        
               | array_key_first wrote:
               | At the end of the day it's very easy and free to not shit
               | while on a conference call. I think 99% of people would
               | prefer a shit-free conference call, so, maybe we're all
               | spoiled.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | What a weird take. If I'm also in the bathroom, I can
               | tune out all the other noises around me because
               | everyone's in there to do the same thing. If I were on
               | the phone with someone, paying close attention to what
               | they're saying, and then I'm treated to a thunderstorm of
               | bowl challenges, I'm going to be annoyed.
               | 
               | Humans pee, fart, and burp. That's perfectly normal. And
               | yet, it's considered basic politeness not to do those
               | things in a freaking business meeting if you can help it.
        
               | ChipopLeMoral wrote:
               | I take noise cancelling headphones to the bathroom at
               | work, especially after lunch.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | Me either, which is why I find it so satisfying to shake
               | the stall with explosive bowel movements when necessary.
               | I'm very private by nature so it makes me giddy to cut
               | loose. Only when necessary of course.
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | Taking a meeting in the bathroom _is_ desecrating the
             | temple.
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | Is this a sarcastic take?
             | 
             | Asking because I was pretty much on-board with the comment
             | and took it as being fully serious, up until the point of
             | "jerking off in public shouldn't be anybody else's
             | business, unless they stain something" being mentioned.
             | 
             | Now, I am not so sure. Either the entire comment was
             | sarcastic or I am missing something major. But putting
             | jerking off in public and talking on the phone in a public
             | bathroom into the same bucket of activities (in terms of
             | appropriateness) feels crazy to me.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Not to mention, it's a crime which may get you on a
               | register. And I don't have a problem with it being
               | classified as a crime.
               | 
               | This is like some 4chan post.
        
               | krick wrote:
               | They are not in the same bucket, and I'm being
               | intentionally provocative, if this confession makes
               | things easier for you, but I really don't think you
               | should mind that much if somebody is jerking off in
               | public unless it harms you in some way (in broad sense,
               | e.g. being intentionally annoying, loud and doing it
               | right into your face). The point is that you should do
               | whatever you want unless it harms others, and shouldn't
               | mind other people doing whatever they want unless it
               | actually harms you. I would say a guy watching tiktok
               | without a headset right next to you in the airport harms
               | you waaay more than a guy jerking off in the same airport
               | standing 10 m away from you or anyone else. I mean, it's
               | disconcerning, because you'd rightfully assume he must be
               | crazy, but the activity itself really shouldn't bother
               | you.
               | 
               | And surely anyone mentioned is a hundred times less
               | harmful than a guy smoking on the street. _That_ should
               | be illegal. Yet people for some reason act as if it 's
               | ok, and it is broadly legal in most places (unlike
               | jerking off in public).
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Are you talking about jerking off in a stall, or on a
               | park bench with your dick out? Or some third option in
               | the middle somewhere?
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I assumed they meant jerking off in a stall. Something I
               | don't want to know about but definitely happens.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > It isn't like he is desecrating a temple, or intruding
             | into your home and using your toilet, or jerking off in the
             | public...
             | 
             | Just like jerking off, defecation should be done in
             | private. Meetings are not private. Very few people want to
             | see/hear/smell you do that and that includes over zoom or
             | phone conference. Most people really do want to mind their
             | own business, and that means having no part in you doing
             | those very private things.
             | 
             | If someone is in a meeting on their phone while in a
             | bathroom stall it's also very rude to everyone else in the
             | bathroom trying to do their own business as privately as
             | they possibly can under the circumstances.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | I have no wish to listen to other people's bodily functions
             | when I'm working, or conversely to listen to them working
             | while I'm answering a call of nature. The correct response
             | to these behavior is to either hang up on them or tell them
             | to shut the fuck up, respectively. It's not OK to impose
             | yourself on others like this.
        
             | Spooky23 wrote:
             | It's either a weird power flex, or someone who lacks agency
             | at the point that they let themselves be bullied and not
             | taking a break to take a dump.
             | 
             | It's the breaking of a norm that makes me be question your
             | judgment, either way.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Was this supposed to be on an alt account?
        
             | pc86 wrote:
             | Thank you for helping me clarify something. Your last
             | example, jerking off in public, is not only a crime (as it
             | should be) but is clearly antisocial behavior. That helped
             | me realize that's what all the other shit is too, no pun
             | intended. Using the restroom while you're talking to other
             | people on the phone, or generally just doing anything that
             | forces other people to listen to you use the restroom, is
             | antisocial behavior and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone
             | civilized.
             | 
             | "Minding your own business" when it comes to antisocial
             | behavior is enabling when the correct response in shaming
             | and ostracizing. It's not going to work with LBJ but it
             | will probably work with Kevin from accounting.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | > _What 's your deal if a guy is good at multitasking and
             | people on the other end of the wire don't mind it?_
             | 
             | I strongly suspect these sorts of people don't ask the
             | people on the other end of the line for their consent.
             | 
             | (TBH, I would probably give that consent if asked, though
             | I'd never take a meeting from the toilet myself.)
        
           | matwood wrote:
           | > However, I lead a life of very few meetings
           | 
           | An old business partner had meetings which felt like 24/7. He
           | had zero issue taking a phone call in the bathroom. I doubt
           | anyone on the other end ever knew.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | But my 1 pair of Bluetooth headphones are dead and who
             | could possibly sleep at night if their phone was 1mm
             | thicker for a headphone jack???
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | He was a speakerphone or hold it to his ear person lol.
               | Only used headphones if he was listening to music.
        
         | mmmlinux wrote:
         | Just join in the conversation. People hate that for some
         | reason.
        
         | mystifyingpoi wrote:
         | I regularly engage in meetings when taking a dump, but only
         | when I'm working from home, and of course flushing only on
         | mute. I don't have a problem with that, the other side has no
         | idea where I am anyway.
        
           | closewith wrote:
           | Everyone knows you're in a toilet due to the acoustics, but
           | no-one is going to bring it up out of courtesy. Everyone also
           | thinks less of you for it.
        
             | RussianCow wrote:
             | I highly doubt it. Most people are in rooms with bad
             | acoustics to begin with.
        
               | closewith wrote:
               | I'm not sure if you're serious, but everyone knows.
        
             | 7bit wrote:
             | No one knows.
        
               | NamlchakKhandro wrote:
               | We know now
        
           | riversflow wrote:
           | Yeah this whole thread is absolutely filled with prudes as
           | far as I'm concerned. Everybody poops, get over it.
        
             | NamlchakKhandro wrote:
             | I think you're mistaken sir.
             | 
             | I myself, me... Am descendant from a long line of arms that
             | ascend from misty lakes depensing royalty on the form of
             | moist scimitars.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | Why don't you just excuse yourself for a few minutes like any
           | normal human being would?
        
         | NoSalt wrote:
         | This ... is disgusting and appalling.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | > I understand cultural differences
         | 
         | These are not cultural differences. This behavior is across-
         | all-cultures lack of decency.
         | 
         | I would say the answer is education, but like the law doesn't
         | even prevent all speeding, maybe the answer is speed bumps
         | (this app?)
        
         | throw310822 wrote:
         | Let me guess: Ireland?
        
         | Pxtl wrote:
         | In 1-on-1 it would be awkward to call it out but in a group
         | meeting where I wouldn't be singling a person out it'd be
         | pretty easy to just ask "could whoever's in the bathroom please
         | mute?" without any kind of confrontation.
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | > but taking business meetings in the bathroom seems
         | inappropriate under effectively all circumstances.
         | 
         | Now, now ... if she is pretty ...
        
         | 7bit wrote:
         | Once you took a meeting while taking a shit, you will see
         | things differently. It just makes problems look insignificant,
         | when you're pumping one out while you listen to someone explain
         | how the issue is company critical.
         | 
         | Of course, disable your camera and mute your mic while dropping
         | or flushing.
         | 
         | And how to deal with it becomes vastly different when you've
         | done it. It's just human. Just ignore it.
        
         | joecool1029 wrote:
         | > Here's one I don't know how to solve: at work some folks take
         | meetings in the bathroom.
         | 
         | Not legal but there's a technical solution that's worked in the
         | past: pocket cell jammer. Range isn't very far but it'll work
         | to boot callers a stall away or a booth away at a diner, etc.
         | Only need to run it a few seconds to drop a call.
         | 
         | Do want to stress these do see enforcement now (in the US at
         | least) but a low power pocket one used occasionally is unlikely
         | to attract attention. It will be noticed if it's higher power
         | or runs in a regular location. Fines are severe and risk
         | jailtime but hey it's your life.
        
           | matthewfcarlson wrote:
           | I wonder if there's a jammer out there that also sends WiFi
           | deauth packets
        
             | joecool1029 wrote:
             | Plenty, this is something off the shelf consumer hardware
             | can be modified to do.
             | 
             | However it's not super effective anymore as 802.11w
             | (protected management frames) is a thing and mandatory for
             | WPA3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11w-2009
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Question: if two people are caught having SDR units that
           | could cause the jamming, how do they know who is guilty?
        
             | linohh wrote:
             | Both. It's not who caused the jam. Operating these things
             | isn't legal to begin with.
        
               | joecool1029 wrote:
               | Actually, just being in possession of such a device in
               | the US isn't legal. Whole FCC page on it with citations:
               | https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement
               | 
               | This is probably an area where SDR's with send capability
               | could in theory be prosecuted as a jamming device.
               | Whether it's been interpreted that way or enforced ever
               | is unknown to me. A purpose built device advertised as a
               | jammer would absolutely be a problem.
               | 
               | Oh also, the 1934 communications act is supposed to
               | prohibit US/state governments from using such devices as
               | well, but they've ignored the law. Some companies in the
               | 2000's challenged it for use in their buildings and afaik
               | lost the cases. My experience dates from that same time
               | range when they were sort of accepted as de jure illegal
               | but there wasn't de facto enforcement.... also networks
               | use more bands now so a jammer covering more frequency
               | ranges would be needed. back then they could do 3 ranges
               | (850mhz-ish, 1900mhz-ish, 2100mhz-ish), now there would
               | be way more like 3.7ghz down to 600mhz. Ignoring mmwave,
               | that's not going to be in your bathroom.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | > Actually, just being in possession of such a device in
               | the US isn't legal.
               | 
               | Wait, SDR devices are not legal in the US? That doesn't
               | sound plausible.
               | 
               | My "computerized legal advisor" says:
               | 
               | > There's no rule from the Federal Communications
               | Commission (FCC) that forbids individuals or hobbyists
               | from buying, importing, or owning SDR hardware in the
               | United States. You can legally purchase and have them.
               | 
               | > Radios that transmit need FCC equipment authorization
               | (such as certification or Supplier's Declaration of
               | Conformity) before they can be marketed in the U.S. if
               | they are capable of operating in ways that could cause
               | interference. That's primarily a manufacturer obligation,
               | not something that restricts private ownership.
               | 
               | > Owning a device is fine, but you must not transmit
               | illegally. Sending signals on unauthorized frequencies or
               | at unauthorized power levels can lead to fines, equipment
               | seizure, and other penalties.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | As with so many other things, intent matters.
               | 
               | Owning lockpicks? Fine!
               | 
               | Owning lockpicks when you're caught burgling a house?
               | You're extra screwed.
               | 
               | Owning an SDR? Fine!
               | 
               | Owning an SDR and getting caught using it to illegally
               | disrupt communications? You're extra screwed.
               | 
               | Yes, you can absolutely own an SDR, and transmit with it
               | on legal frequencies. If you're busted using it to break
               | the law, then it's strong evidence that you went out of
               | your way to deliberately, premeditatedly break it, and
               | that makes for a bad day.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | The person upthread said, unqualified:
               | 
               | > _Actually, just being in possession of such a device in
               | the US isn 't legal._
               | 
               | Their view was that it isn't legal to own, regardless of
               | context or intent. That's what GP was arguing against.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Yeah. I was reassuring the parent of my post that they're
               | right, it's legal to own an SDR. You can still get in
               | extra trouble for breaking the law with it, but it's
               | perfect fine to have and use one otherwise.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | Sure, but my original question was what happens if two
               | people are caught with an SDR unit, and authorities can't
               | prove who (of the two people) used their unit to do the
               | jamming.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Not a lawyer. My guess: if they're together, they'd both
               | be charged, as if they robbed a store as a team. If
               | they're not, neither would be charged, as each would have
               | a brilliant defense.
        
               | joecool1029 wrote:
               | Nobody clicks the link and reads... they just use the
               | slop generators, now I'm stuck having to do tard
               | wrangling:
               | 
               | > Sections 510 - allows for seizure of unlawful equipment
               | (47 U.S.C. SS 510).
               | 
               | https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/510
               | 
               | > (a) Violation with willful and knowing intent Any
               | electronic, electromagnetic, radio frequency, or similar
               | device, or component thereof, used, sent, carried,
               | manufactured, assembled, possessed, offered for sale,
               | sold, or advertised with willful and knowing intent to
               | violate section 301 or 302a of this title, or rules
               | prescribed by the Commission under such sections, may be
               | seized and forfeited to the United States.
               | 
               | Guess what? You don't have to be a fucking lawyer to know
               | how to read.
        
         | not_a_bot_4sho wrote:
         | Tangentially, I did this once years ago.
         | 
         | I had consumed a large amount of spicy food the day prior, and
         | it pulled the fire alarm right in the middle of a phone screen.
         | I foolishly thought I could silently and secretly handle both
         | tasks at once.
         | 
         | These were the days before background noise filters. The poor
         | candidate obviously heard unpleasant things but neither of us
         | acknowledged it directly.
         | 
         | He accepted the job though. But this still bothers me decades
         | later. Never again!
        
         | linohh wrote:
         | Oh, I had that in my old office building, everyone but me was
         | buying and selling fruit and they were dealing while shitting
         | in the communal bathrooms. Really weird when you just want to
         | defecate and suddenly someone yells into their phone YES I'LL
         | BUY EVERYTHING.
        
         | alsetmusic wrote:
         | My previous employer was a twenty-something person shop and the
         | owner would do this while speaking with clients. Granted, it
         | was a single-person bathroom, but it still drove me mad.
         | There's no way people couldn't hear what was happening while he
         | spoke and flushed the toilet. Maybe that's part of why we
         | weren't getting new clients.
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | I worked in a building that shared the floor with a small law
         | office, the number of lawyers that would cruise on in to take a
         | piss while chatting away on their Bluetooth earphones was too
         | high. They would be talking about their client's cases too, no
         | respect for privacy at all.
        
         | tsoukase wrote:
         | During toilet and all other breaks between my patients' visits
         | I always call back the numbers had reached me. During the flush
         | moment I increase my voice volume. I don't know how it's heard
         | on the other side. There is no other way I return home on time.
        
       | sublinear wrote:
       | Is fighting antisocial behavior with more antisocial behavior
       | really necessary?
       | 
       | There is no singular solution that fits all situations. This
       | entire discussion is pointless.
        
       | Craighead wrote:
       | You need it to be 200ms not 2 seconds
       | 
       | Delayed Auditory Feedback (DAF) is the term you need to look
       | into. Playing back what someone says to you back at them with a
       | 200ms delay is literally a brain Denial of Service.
        
       | ericwood wrote:
       | Very similar in theory to Bob Widlar's legendary "hassler"
       | circuit
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Widlar#Personality
        
       | jonathanstrange wrote:
       | My personal take is that having phone conversations at normal
       | speaker volume is fine because people also talk amongst each
       | other in public and there is no substantial difference, but
       | watching videos or even listening to music on loud speaker is not
       | okay because it's a public nuisance.
       | 
       | However, it seems that the cultural norms differ a lot, I've
       | heard of people who disapprove of almost everything and don't
       | have much sympathy for them. Politeness goes both ways, and in my
       | opinion using that app is impolite, too.
        
         | bonesss wrote:
         | There is a substantial difference between people talking
         | amongst themselves and one person on a phone.
         | 
         | Humans are social animals, we tune out conversations easily.
         | Half conversations are just one interrupting, attention-
         | grabbing ... jarring start ... ... after ... ... ... ...
         | another. It's a series of unpredictable spontaneous one-sided
         | outbursts, behaviours that otherwise belong to disturbed
         | individuals.
         | 
         | Listening to people in the phone is inherently more annoying,
         | backed by decent research IIRC.
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | Phone speakers are tinny and sharp and I find them a lot more
         | annoying.
        
       | PeterStuer wrote:
       | On the one hand I love this. Otoh. Will the people who this is
       | supposed to target actually care?
       | 
       | To be fair, the callousnes of the people blastimg any audio in
       | public is just beyond me.
        
       | idsafsdij wrote:
       | this whole app is just theatrical programming. a vibe coded repo
       | built so this guy could share a made-up anecdote about when he
       | was passive-aggressive at the airport. By the author's own
       | admission, even the name "STFU" was ripped from someone else's
       | app that does the exact same thing
       | 
       | We don't even get to see it in action! It's just the code, a
       | gesture at what's possible if one could be bothered to pull the
       | repo and run it themselves. "person asks LLM for an app that does
       | audio recording and playback with a delay". fascinating, thank
       | you
       | 
       | P.S. the so called "discussion" thread linked in the repo is
       | wild. "Garbage will be there everywhere... Have zero hope in the
       | political system regardless of party in power" what does this
       | have to do with anything man, i'm just trying to look at cool dev
       | articles
        
       | overfeed wrote:
       | I wonder what fraction of people complaining about inconsiderate
       | behavior in this thread, permanently use high beams when driving.
        
       | athenot wrote:
       | This is a fun app.
       | 
       | One way I deal with people talking on speakerphone, is inviting
       | myself into their conversation and making comments as if I were
       | an active participant. That usually earns me a weird look, and
       | then they go off speaker so I can't hear what's been said.
       | Success.
       | 
       | Similar with folks watching reels on speaker, I fake a laugh or
       | make comments about the content. It's awkward enough that they
       | usually stop because they want a moment alone, not an interactive
       | session with a stranger. Which ironically is the same thing I
       | want too.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | How do you deal with the small possibility that the offending
         | person is unhinged (since they've already chosen to throw out
         | societal mores out the window) and could physically hurt you?
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | It's a two-way street.
           | 
           | I used to have to deal with unhinged people on the regular
           | and one of the techniques that keep the peace and stay safe
           | is to present an edge that gives the vibe that you may be
           | more unhinged.
           | 
           | My dad used to run housing projects, and my uncle was an
           | assistant principal at one of the most violent schools in New
           | York City. They were like Jedi masters of presence. They had
           | stories that were absolutely insane.
        
             | echelon_musk wrote:
             | > _They had stories that were absolutely insane._
             | 
             | Don't leave us hanging.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | Yes, please give us some!
        
               | Spooky23 wrote:
               | lol, Sure! Here's one that was one of the crazier ones
               | that I remember from my dad. There were a bunch of people
               | complaining about smells coming from an apartment. The
               | dude was a little out there and some sort of religious
               | practitioner.
               | 
               | The workers were afraid of the guy, but he hadn't really
               | done anything except be weird and creepy. So he ended up
               | going up with a few folks to check it out. The dude was
               | capturing (many) wild animals and boiling their blood. So
               | much so that it was condensating on the ceiling.
               | 
               | The dude opened the door and came at them with a bloody
               | machete. He was babbling something about his mother, and
               | I guess as it was told dad just softly said something
               | along the lines of "Your mom sent us and she is not happy
               | with what is happening here, and I think you know that."
               | I guess the guy stopped in his tracks, dropped the
               | machete and started bawling.
               | 
               | He was a special guy and made a point to treat people
               | fairly and with respect. They'd kick out drug dealers and
               | people who'd terrorize neighbors with dogs and such. The
               | local street dealers beat up some guy who tried to steal
               | his car because being diligent in the buildings was
               | keeping their families safe. He'd take me down as a kid
               | in the summer to hang out and help out with kids
               | programs. It was profoundly meaningful to me as I got to
               | understand that we are all really the same.
        
               | railsgirls112 wrote:
               | I love this, thank you for sharing. I imagine that
               | position gives you an exposure to humanity that many
               | can't handle with that kind of grace and constitution. We
               | surely need more people like him.
        
             | getdoneist wrote:
             | It is pure game theory. An aggressive person expects no bad
             | outcomes from his passive victim. If they get a signal that
             | their own outcome may be not that good, even marginally,
             | this very often changes their behaviour.
             | 
             | That's why the advice to act submissively presented as
             | "avoiding confrontation" is often the wrong advice.
             | 
             | You are not seeking confrontation, but you should signal
             | that you are ready for confrontation. Stops aggressive
             | behaviour very often.
        
               | fc417fc802 wrote:
               | Unfortunately this quite reasonable observation has been
               | mangled by pop culture and memes into "be aggressive
               | yourself".
               | 
               | It also fails to account for there being different sorts
               | of aggressive people.
        
               | Spooky23 wrote:
               | That's a good point. There's alot of weird stuff out
               | there about this, especially with regard to weapons.
               | There's a balance between being aggressive and not a
               | victim. If you tip too much on the "aggressive" side, you
               | become a threat.
               | 
               | If you work with dogs it's very obvious with them as they
               | are so empathic and attuned to humans. If you are afraid,
               | they will try to take over. If you present as in control,
               | they accept your control. If you are a threat, they
               | respond as they see it. It happens between other animals
               | too -- we're all seen reels of family pets chasing off
               | bears or tiny chihuahuas chasing off German Shepards.
               | People aren't dogs, but I think the comparison has some
               | merit.
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | Anectodal evidence, but 3 out of 4 bullies left me alone
               | after I punched them back just a single time. The 4th got
               | backup for the next time he jumped me, so it _can_
               | backfire.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | > The 4th got backup for the next time he jumped me, so
               | it can backfire.
               | 
               | But was there a next time after that, or did they stop
               | after getting their revenge once? If they did stop, and
               | assuming you didn't receive any permanent damage, you
               | still won the interaction long term.
        
               | butler14 wrote:
               | How did you manage to acquire /four/ bullies?
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | 1. This was over the course of almost 20 years; one in
               | elementary school, two in junior-high, one in high school
               | 
               | 2. I'm an insufferable know-it-all.
        
               | subscribed wrote:
               | You deserve a muffin for the way you delivered it
        
               | slumberlust wrote:
               | Speak softly and carry a big stick.
        
               | niemandhier wrote:
               | This is dangerous advice.
               | 
               | You need to read the situation very carefully:
               | 
               | Antisocial behavior is often an attempt to gain status in
               | the subjects in-group. Breaking rules in a way conveys
               | power.
               | 
               | Violence against members of the out-group is an even more
               | effective way to display dominance and hence gain status.
               | 
               | Unless you play a repeated game with the other person
               | there is little to gain for you by initiating conflict.
               | 
               | Even if you assume you have something to gain, always
               | consider the other person might have little to lose and (
               | my opinion) never display aggression you are not willing
               | to back up.
               | 
               | Sources: 1. Rory Miller: "Meditations on Violence"
               | 
               | 2. Life experiences, that match 1's observations
        
               | getdoneist wrote:
               | The advice is not about initiating a conflict. It is
               | about not to appear an easy victim in order not to
               | provoke aggression.
               | 
               | But life is always about fight-or-flight, so flight
               | should remain an option, very often the best one.
               | 
               | By not signalling readiness to fight back, you increase
               | probability of aggression by removing all costs to the
               | potential perpetrator from their calculation.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | It's illegal for them to hurt you.
        
             | bravetraveler wrote:
             | > _It 's illegal for them to hurt you._
             | 
             | A well-known inhibitor for the unhinged.
             | 
             | I wish I had the social awareness to troll _[the right]_
             | people _[well]_ in the moment like this. I 've misjudged
             | the dangerous ones enough, find that has blocked my words.
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | It's the being in prison for years which truly inhibits
               | them.
        
               | bravetraveler wrote:
               | For the benefit of the _next_ victim, maybe. The unhinged
               | are _famously_ forward-thinking. Hopefully you report
               | their crime _after the fact_ and it 's met with a
               | favorable result.
               | 
               | All to say: _" May the odds..."_, etc.
        
               | evilduck wrote:
               | Is that why our prisons sit empty?
        
           | iammrpayments wrote:
           | Just lift weights, or say it's just a prank I guess
        
           | reassess_blind wrote:
           | Personally, it's not worth living in fear of that small
           | chance. If you're alone and they're visibly on drugs or
           | something then yeah, better to just move. Otherwise we just
           | let people get away with bad behavior.
        
           | taneq wrote:
           | Diet, exercise, and physical training, probably?
        
         | NoSalt wrote:
         | This is a good way to shanked on the D.C. Metro.
        
           | jcbe wrote:
           | Kind of a funny day to post this (WMATA just released data
           | showing crime rates at a 25-year low)
        
             | nailer wrote:
             | I have do idea about DC but I don't trust crime rate stats
             | - a lot might be unreported.
             | 
             | In NYC last year someone burnt someone else to death while
             | they sat, relaxed and watched, and in a seperate incident a
             | person died died and someone else had sex with them
             | afterwards.
             | 
             | It could that be crime is lower or it could be that insane
             | brutality has become normalized.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | But do you have reason to believe that crime is reported
               | less often now than in the past?
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Crimes stats famously get massaged. However murders are
               | hard to downgrade.
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | <Renee Good's family joined the chat>
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Sounds like time to send in the National Guard.
        
             | testing22321 wrote:
             | 25 year low is still an order of magnitude higher than a
             | developed country.
        
         | cool-RR wrote:
         | It's my fantasy to do this. Congrats on having the courage.
        
           | hyperbolablabla wrote:
           | My friend does this and I feel the same way. I could never
           | bring myself to do this, I cant even smile at people
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | I've recently become a convert to this kind of thinking. The
         | person invited the public to join in when they decided to have
         | a public speakerphone call. If they don't want my responses or
         | laughter, they get annoyed and stop the behavior I was finding
         | annoying in the first place.
         | 
         | I don't even have to act like I'm bothered by it, or that I
         | find their behavior offensive. They change their behavior
         | because they are bothered by mine.
        
           | onethought wrote:
           | How is that different than two people talking in person? Do
           | you interrupt them as well?
        
             | itishappy wrote:
             | Yup. Online too! I have no qualms about adding my two cents
             | to any loud public conversations.
        
             | mezyt wrote:
             | A half conversation is a lot more disruptive because your
             | brain try to fill in the gap of information.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | This comment chain is talking about people using
               | speakerphone, though, meaning they hear both sides of the
               | conversation
        
               | jomohke wrote:
               | In theory yes, but in practice they usually have the
               | speaker up far higher than they are speaking themselves
               | so we do only hear one side clearly.
               | 
               | I think the high distractability is a trifecta of volume,
               | non-naturallness of the sound (compression etc: feeling
               | out of place in the space) and this point.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | Do you think having your conversation on speakerphone in
             | public is the same as talking to someone?
        
               | sdenton4 wrote:
               | People talking to each other in person tend to modulate
               | their voices to match the context. People talking on
               | speakerphone tend to crank the volume and shout.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Plus devices are tinny and grate. Watching a video on the
               | phone of someone speaking is much more annoying than
               | someone speaking in person, even at the same volume.
        
               | onethought wrote:
               | I think this is the only meaningful point being made in
               | this thread.
               | 
               | The sound from a phone speaker is annoying, more so, than
               | a typical in person talking. To me the solution lies
               | somewhere in fixing that to make it sound more natural.
               | 
               | Everyone else claiming that some how having "loud"
               | conversation is rude, feels like they've fallen into some
               | anti-social hole... we are literally the only animal to
               | have developed complex spoken language... it's part of
               | our humanity.
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | No, the loudness is a whole separate dimension. 99% of
               | the time, there's no need to be loud in public. Not when
               | you're talking on the phone (the microphones on a phone
               | work great!), not when you're having a conversation with
               | one or two other people close to you. Not when talking to
               | Siri (etc). You can talk quietly in a place that isn't
               | very loud, and in a place like an airport you can talk
               | just loud enough to be clearly heard -- there's no need
               | to shout or to project your voice.
               | 
               | There are exceptions to this -- of course nobody expects
               | you to worry about your volume at a concert between sets,
               | at a sporting event, etc. But people who speak very
               | loudly everywhere are annoying to everyone around them.
        
               | shermantanktop wrote:
               | It's all context. Some cultures are loud, some are quiet;
               | some people are loud, some are quiet; some places are
               | supposed to be loud, and so on.
               | 
               | The people being quiet in an normally-loud place create
               | no problems. The people being loud in a normally-quiet
               | place are causing problems for others by violating the
               | quiet.
               | 
               | Loud people also tend to be oblivious to this and then
               | get defensive when it's pointed out. Not always - I've
               | known some naturally-loud people who had figured out that
               | being shushed meant they were in the wrong.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | For speakerphone-appropriate situations (e.g. being alone
               | or with people that all want to participate in a call),
               | yes, that would be great.
               | 
               | For everything else, the solution is to STFU. People
               | blasting reels or having rambling non-essential phone
               | calls in public transport is detrimental to everybody's
               | stress level and by extension mental and physical health.
               | I'd love to see it banned and the ban actually enforced.
               | 
               | Shout out to the GGT 101 bus driver that made the
               | annoying passenger on some endless legal/business call
               | actually shut up with a polite but firm "Sir, this is a
               | bus, not a call center". Best trip across the Golden Gate
               | Bridge I've ever had.
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | I think I've had that driver (or we were on the same
               | bus!) because I remember this happening on that bus when
               | I took it as well.
               | 
               | To the larger point about loud conversations -- any
               | conversations above what is appropriate to the situation,
               | even in person conversations, are annoying. Ever go to a
               | restaurant and you're able to hear the loud table across
               | the room because they're yelling while everyone else is
               | speaking at a normal volume? Highly annoying. "Who
               | ordered the mojito? Monique ordered the mojito!" I'm just
               | trying to enjoy a cocktail and talk with my partner, not
               | listen to your cacophony.
               | 
               | Doubly annoying if you have a speech processing disorder
               | of any kind. I already have a hard time understanding
               | people on one side of my head, I don't need to also be
               | picking up someone's loud voices interrupting my attempts
               | to listen.
        
               | strken wrote:
               | No, loud conversation on a train during commuter hours
               | really is rude where I live.
               | 
               | Most patrons have a conversation at a normal volume where
               | the words are clear to their conversation partner but not
               | to people sitting further away.
               | 
               | Speaking loudly enough to be understood from a
               | significant distance is rude because it prevents other
               | people from having their own conversations, and it forces
               | people who are not having a conversation to listen to
               | you. Speaking at an appropriate volume is not anti-
               | social, it is _pro_ -social: other people can't be social
               | themselves if you're too loud.
               | 
               | The unwritten rules loosen up at night, during events, or
               | at other times when there's a boisterous crowd.
        
               | sowbug wrote:
               | And the person on the other end of the line often doesn't
               | realize how uncivil the situation is. They might know
               | they're on speakerphone, but they actually can't see that
               | they're interrupting the trains of thought of dozens of
               | people around them. This means the content of the
               | conversation is more likely to be inappropriate for
               | public consumption, making it even more distracting for
               | the forced participants.
               | 
               | The person holding the speakerphone is to blame, of
               | course, but they often seem to go into a state of
               | pathological flow where they're almost as oblivious as
               | their conversation partner.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | It's similar to the distinction between a driver having a
               | conversation with a passenger in a vehicle vs. the same
               | driver having a phone call, _even in a hands-free /
               | speakerphone mode_.
               | 
               | The passenger will be _far_ more aware of context and
               | circumstances, including traffic or other hazards, and
               | will generally adapt to those surroundings. The remote
               | party simply has no access to those cues.
               | 
               | (And yes, some passengers may be oblivious, for various
               | reasons, including but not limited to children. I'm
               | discussing the _general_ case.)
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | If their voices sounded shrill/unnaturally amplified/too
             | loud, definitely. Listening to an annoying conversation on
             | speakerphone is 10x more annoying than when it's face-to-
             | face.
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | A friend of mine works AV at shows that have rotating DJs and
         | one of the things she has on her mixer board is "The Suck
         | Button."
         | 
         | It causes a mic at the other end of the room to get cut into
         | the DJ's live feed monitor with a semitone shift down and some
         | reverb. This causes all sorts of inner-ear chaos and usually
         | clears a DJ off the stage when they're over time within a few
         | minutes at most -- usually under 30 seconds. One time they were
         | trying to figure out why it wasn't working and discovered that
         | the DJ had muted their monitor feed, which explained why they
         | were not only peaking the meters but over time: They hadn't
         | heard the FOUR warnings from the back of house that it was time
         | to wrap up.
        
           | inlined wrote:
           | There was a coffee shop ages ago in SF that would every few
           | hours play a cacophony (e.g. multiple songs at once). I
           | assume it was to drive away people camping on their laptops
           | to rotate tables. Understand but super annoying to people
           | like me who had a timer to but food or drink no less than
           | hourly to be a good citizen
        
             | acomjean wrote:
             | We had a friend who would play Metal when the ice cream
             | store he worked at was closed but the customers were
             | lingering too long. It generally worked, as he was immune.
        
               | reincarnate0x14 wrote:
               | I introduced my local restaurant owner to Mongolian
               | Techno and the late night bar flies and some of the
               | kitchen staff have never forgiven me. He won't admit if
               | he plays it for himself, or because of them :)
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | eg https://youtu.be/9uMtnH7cABg for the curious.
        
               | vrighter wrote:
               | this is awesome!
        
               | reincarnate0x14 wrote:
               | It's 3am and we're arguing some insipid minutae over
               | technically illegal tequila shots while one drunk girl is
               | breaking it down on the tiny dance floor :)
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | I play disco music to keep the kids off my lawn.
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | A live music venue near me plays this when it's time for
               | people to GTFO:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I
        
               | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
               | I was at a coffee shop once that was playing metal while
               | my writing group was meeting there and I just thought
               | they had excellent taste (it was not near closing time)
        
               | nerdsniper wrote:
               | We did this where I bartended as well. Generally 15-20
               | minutes after serving the last drink of the night.
               | 
               | The goal wasn't to offend or clear out 100% of the
               | customers - just make a large enough portion decide that
               | outside might be more comfortable/conducive than inside.
               | The 20 or so customers who were fine with the cacophony
               | were easy enough to wrangle manually, and also generally
               | either people we knew well .
        
               | kstenerud wrote:
               | In Japan it's pretty much an institution that shops play
               | an instrumental version of Hotaru no Hikari (which is
               | basically Auld Lang Syne with different lyrics) when
               | they're closing.
               | 
               | Most Japanese know it as "the closing song"
        
             | ralferoo wrote:
             | It's maybe best not to give too much context to this,
             | except just to warn you to turn down the volume and not
             | watch if you might suffer from epilepsy.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJT8vfraCmk
             | 
             | When this was first presented, I was watching this in a
             | large dark hall with this on the projector and the sound
             | level set to extremely loud. Like a fool, I sat through
             | this to the end wondering whether it was going to ever end
             | rather than recognising it as a glorious troll.
        
             | CTDOCodebases wrote:
             | That's extremely annoying. I have a Bluetooth speaker that
             | I was intending to repurpose into a device to combat
             | inconsiderate smart phone usage. I connected it to my
             | laptop and started playing multiple streams of Punjabi MC -
             | Beware of the Boys. It was torturous.
             | 
             | My other idea was to get the line from dumb and dumber "Do
             | you want to hear the most annoying sound in the world..."
             | And just loop the sound continuously.
             | 
             | I might just try this project though and see how it goes.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | That reminds me of the "speech jammer", which won an Ignobel
           | Prize last decade. It's an acoustic gun that combines a
           | directional microphone and speaker array with a delay,
           | tripping up the speaker.
           | 
           | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shut-up-speech-jammer-
           | among-201...
        
         | anotherevan wrote:
         | Sidled up next to the guy and said loudly, "Mr Smith? Mr Smith?
         | The mistress is ready for you now!"
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | Fun solution! But what do you do if the person is listening to
         | loud music? There's nothing to comment there.
        
       | pjs_ wrote:
       | I love this... have been thinking about exactly this technology
       | for years but combined with phased array directional loudspeaker
       | and shotgun mic. Deploy during major political speech, instantly
       | shut down brain of speaker, would appear to be an internal
       | malfunction
        
       | SuboptimalEng wrote:
       | Indian-American here. Thank you for this!
       | 
       | I have hearing sensitivity and have repeatedly asked my parents
       | to lower the volume on TVs, whatsapp videos, insta reels 100s of
       | times. They always lower it for 5 minutes before raising it back.
       | Likely because they are losing their hearing, but unable to admit
       | that.
       | 
       | I tend to be very mindful of others (maybe because I grew up in
       | America), but my parents are not even mindful of my requests.
       | Maybe it's a cultural thing? I expect those who have grown-up (or
       | spent their whole lives) in India would do the same.
       | 
       | Definitely need to test this out app out when I go home.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | On the flip side, people with hearing sensitivity are the most
         | god awful people to deal with. It's like the entire world has
         | to quiet down for them when they could just as easily put in
         | ear plugs instead.
        
           | anotherevan wrote:
           | Hyperacusis is a real thing. One of my kidults has it, and
           | yes, they use active noise cancelling ear plugs or over the
           | ear headphones and sometimes the world is still too loud.
        
       | ikamm wrote:
       | The idea that 12 lines of vibe coded JavaScript prompted because
       | someone was too scared to talk to someone disturbing him (but not
       | enough to take a creep shot and blast him on Twitter) could make
       | it to the top post of this website is quite sad.
        
         | mmmlinux wrote:
         | Too much engagement arguing if you should be able to hike and
         | listen to music.
        
           | Sabinus wrote:
           | I'm pretty amused this is what the post has deveolved into.
           | If this was a Trump thread it would have been [Flagged] by
           | now.
        
         | fernandotakai wrote:
         | i've seen people get beat up because they asked an anti-social
         | c-words to turn the volume down.
         | 
         | some people just cannot be reasoned and the amount of people
         | like this is growing HARD.
        
           | ikamm wrote:
           | I don't know what makes you think passively aggressively
           | playing the sound back at a person like that would illicit
           | any better a response.
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | I've never really understood that. I've never been beat up
           | over it but people have gotten extremely defensive over it.
           | 
           | Is it some kind of minor evangelism on their end? Like they
           | think the music is so wonderful that obviously everyone
           | should be listening to it?
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | And twitter was just a static page you could post 140 character
         | messages to.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Did you forget what site you were on? This is Hacker News.
        
       | publicdebates wrote:
       | > app that plays back the same audio it hears, delayed by ~2
       | seconds.
       | 
       | > idk i'm not a neuroscientist. all i know is it makes people
       | shut up and that's good enough for me.
       | 
       | Is it happening for the right reasons?
       | 
       | What is going through the minds of those people in that moment,
       | when they hear an audio recording of what just happened played
       | back to them?
       | 
       | Are they thinking they're being recorded? Are they nervous? Do
       | they feel threatened? Might they act out on this in an unexpected
       | and perhaps escalating way?
       | 
       | These are why I would not use this app.
        
       | kogus wrote:
       | I love the ingredients for this project:                   made
       | with spite and web audio api. do whatever you want with it.
        
       | anymouse123456 wrote:
       | It is true that this app is more hostile than asking someone to
       | keep it down, but people should beware of either approach, as
       | it's not unusual for the same assholes who are comfortable
       | blasting their audio in public spaces to also be comfortable
       | getting into a fist fight.
       | 
       | I have personally been threatened on multiple occasions because I
       | asked someone to turn down (or turn off) their volume while
       | watching videos on their phone in public.
       | 
       | In one instance, I was in a doctor's office waiting room and a
       | rather large, otherwise normal-looking man (likely in his late
       | fifties) was watching videos at full volume while 4-5 of us were
       | sitting quietly. We were all annoyed by him and exchanging looks,
       | so I politely asked him to mute the video or watch it outside and
       | he stood up and started threatening to fight me in a doctor's
       | office waiting room!
       | 
       | In my anecdotal experience in various tier 2 USA cities (i.e.,
       | not NY, SF, LA, etc), Gen-Xers and Boomers seem to be the worst
       | offenders and also surprisingly, the most belligerent when
       | confronted.
       | 
       | If you're going to try either approach (this app, or asking),
       | please do not be surprised if you find yourself in a rapidly
       | escalating confrontation that may quickly result in physical
       | violence.
       | 
       | Sometimes, this calculus is more than worth it, sometimes it's
       | not, but just don't think it can't happen.
        
       | phlo wrote:
       | My go-to for situations like these: Assume that the offender
       | _clearly_ didn't mean to behave incorrectly, and help them
       | overcome the mistake.
       | 
       | Person in a public space listening to reels at full volume? Get
       | their attention, then loudly point out that their headphones got
       | disconnected and everybody can hear the audio.
       | 
       | People leaving a train or bus and leaving behind trash? Loudly
       | let them know that they forgot their water bottle or paper bag.
       | If it's a single item, this works doubly well if you helpfully
       | hand them the item, too.
        
       | omgJustTest wrote:
       | ``` README.md
       | 
       | straight up honest - originally called this "make-it-stop" but
       | then saw @TimDarcet also built similar and named it STFU. wayyyyy
       | better name. so stole it. sorry not sorry.
       | 
       | ```
       | 
       | Probably the reason that the code "worked" from a single prompt.
       | Could potentially have downloaded the github repo first...
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | adding levels of indirection/abstraction is a common
         | engineering move, especially in software engineering.
        
         | einsteinx2 wrote:
         | > Probably the reason that the code "worked" from a single
         | prompt
         | 
         | I took a look at the repo, and the whole thing is 12 lines of
         | JS and some basic HTML and CSS. I'm not surprised at all it
         | worked the first time from a single prompt. No need to copy
         | someone else's project for something so simple.
        
           | omgJustTest wrote:
           | Good that you did.
           | 
           | At least the author clearly delinated that it is indeed
           | sloppiest of slop.
        
       | silexia wrote:
       | I absolutely hate the people who walk around or bike around or
       | skate and carry a big speaker and force everyone else to listen
       | to their garbage music.
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | Always garbage music. I heard one of them playing Bryan Adams'
         | "Summer of '69" (or whatever it's called), so not all new
         | garbage either.
        
       | maximilianroos wrote:
       | I'm all for building apps to solve problems, but I would really
       | encourage folks to ask people politely to do what you want them
       | to do, rather than having an app do it for you.
       | 
       | You can just ask people for things! And you will become a better
       | person for it.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | Video of person being beaten to death after asking the attacker
         | to stop smoking in a bus:
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1qdqztb/whe...
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | He was not beaten to death, liar. He shouldn't have been
           | punched, but there is no need to just make stuff up.
        
             | fernandotakai wrote:
             | sure. he wasn't beaten to death.
             | 
             | but:
             | 
             | 1. do you really wanna get into a fight because of this?
             | because dude, i have a family to take care, so i would
             | rather just not say anything.
             | 
             | 2. you can easily die from a single punch
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | Nobody is suggesting he deserved to be punched or that
               | there are some unreasonable violent people around. Yeah,
               | he could have died. But saying he actually did is a lie
               | deployed to get attention, I can't stand that.
        
           | tintor wrote:
           | What is impressive in the video is two guys stepping in to
           | help.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Asking people publicly tends to challenge their ego and bring
         | up defensiveness. It would fail a lot more than subtle
         | manipulation like this, and instead bring additional
         | confrontation.
        
       | ahmetomer wrote:
       | It seems that most of the people who suffer from loud voices in
       | public spaces tend not to confront those scoundrels, and instead
       | eat it up and wonder endlessly how they can be so mindless and
       | rude to others. I am sometimes like that as well, but I would
       | rather "fix" it myself because I just don't know of any practical
       | ways to bring about a proper public commute etiquette. That's not
       | my job.
       | 
       | Today I went to Munich on public transportation -- with a mix of
       | transfers on trams and regional trains. I think I read about 50
       | pages, all the while traveling. It may sound like an ad, but it's
       | not; I really appreciate my Sony XM4 -- would not have been
       | possible to focus on reading without it -- which I've been using
       | for years now. I put it on with ANC, and play a non-distracting
       | focus music. This helps quite a lot!
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | Oh, some of us _do_ confront them.
         | 
         | You're lucky to be able to read on public transport. I barely
         | can anymore because of these people.
        
       | wagwang wrote:
       | This is why going to the gym matters
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Do people talk on speakerphone in the gym too? so
         | desensitization? :)
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | I have to admit: I found the two seconds delay quite entertaing
       | there.
        
       | clueless wrote:
       | The fact that we can't just spin up a Claude code on our iPhones
       | and have it program and run the end result right there in iOS
       | should be chargeable offense by apple (and Android). Looking
       | forward to the day that this capability exists.
        
         | einsteinx2 wrote:
         | Since this is a web app, you kind of can do it today using web
         | tools, but I know what you mean.
        
       | doktor2un wrote:
       | Doesn't work on my phone
        
       | zahlman wrote:
       | I love that you're honest about having one-shot something with
       | Claude and that you describe the experience in your own words
       | without asking Claude to hype up the result for you.
       | 
       | It's also a simple, genius idea. Congrats.
       | 
       | [Edit: I guess this wasn't submitted by the author/prompter.
       | Still, you get the point.]
        
       | friedtofu wrote:
       | Hey HN! Check out this vibe-coded shell script that Claude Opus
       | one-shot that does the same thing(Pretty CrAzY!!!).
       | 
       | This is a fish shell function but you can probably get claude
       | code to convert it to bash or zsh                 function STFU
       | #alsa records incoming audio from the default input device for 2
       | seconds                   arecord --duration 2 echo.wav
       | #alsa plays back the echo.wav of the recorded audio file
       | aplay echo.wav                   #Ctrl+C when the target looks
       | your way!!!       end            STFU
       | 
       | Guess I should create a git repo for this now and add an MIT
       | license like OP, amirite?
       | 
       | (Yes this is post is entirely sarcasm, except that I do use fish
       | as my default shell.)
        
       | jlebar wrote:
       | I carry cheap earbuds I got off aliexpress in my backpack and
       | offer them to people who are listening to music or tiktok without
       | headphones.
       | 
       | I have a nonzero accept rate!
       | 
       | But you really have to be in the right frame of mind. If you
       | approach someone in anger, they'll pick up on it and mirror you.
       | 
       | The best line I've found so far is, "I know Apple stopped giving
       | out earbuds with their phones; would you like some?"
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | I appreciate your empathy for the fellow human. Even if it's
         | "undeserved" it still makes things better for everyone
         | involved.
        
       | lifetimerubyist wrote:
       | We are at the stage where we can engage in AI warfare with
       | bespoke AI generated weapons.
       | 
       | Nice.
        
       | mrinterweb wrote:
       | This is so passive aggressive. I kinda love it and hate it if
       | that makes sense.
        
       | hamburglar wrote:
       | I wonder how well this would work on a street preacher if
       | connected to a megaphone.
        
       | blks wrote:
       | Dislike for ai profile picture
        
       | indigodaddy wrote:
       | Initially thought this was cloning and doing TTS, but then I
       | looked at the html file. I'm dumb lol
        
       | hereme888 wrote:
       | Sorely needed app. Amazing how inconsiderate and shameless many
       | people are these days: airport, bus, train, even the gym sauna
       | just blasting random tiktok feeds.
        
       | disqard wrote:
       | Reminds me of SpeechJammer:
       | 
       | https://sites.google.com/site/qurihara/top-english/speechjam...
       | 
       | (which won the Ig Nobel prize in 2012)
        
       | burnerRhodov2 wrote:
       | Im from LA... the type of people who play music or talk on
       | speaker are not the kinda people you'd want to do this too.. This
       | sounds like a perfect way to get stabbed.
       | 
       | Fun light hearted github, that will passively agressively get
       | someone killed.
        
       | xpe wrote:
       | I've read several dozen comments, but I haven't come across the
       | following stated quite this way:
       | 
       | One option is to politely ask someone if they have headphones
       | and/or to turn it down.
       | 
       | Cont'd from ^: you can often lubricate the situation by giving
       | some "reason" that lets the other person save face. You can be
       | genuine or creative or both. (You might say you just really had a
       | rough day and would appreciate quiet.)
       | 
       | As a point of comparison, think about how many drivers forget to
       | turn on their headlights even after the sun goes down. Some
       | fraction of people screw up in spite of their self-interest.
       | 
       | If you are genuinely afraid of speaking to someone, listen to
       | your gut. Just try to check this against reality... if this
       | happens at 1000X the rate of crime in the area, you might be
       | miscalibrated.
       | 
       | You might consider talking to Mr Blaring McLoud without
       | mentioning your annoyance at first. This might help get you one
       | step closer to asking nicely later.
       | 
       | Some people are genuinely unaware, so erring on the side of
       | kindness is a smart step one. Even when asking nicely without
       | snark or impugning someone's pride, you might still face rude
       | behavior. I like the phrase "don't mistake kindness for
       | weakness." You can walk away and figure out what you want to do
       | next, knowing that you gave the other person a chance.
        
       | CapsAdmin wrote:
       | I moved from a very quiet culture to a very noisy one.
       | 
       | Here people watch tik tok on full blast, people let their kids
       | run amok in concrete cafes, constantly honk at each other, blast
       | karaoke for all neighbors to hear, etc.
       | 
       | These people have some ability to sift through noise. For example
       | being able to talk to someone on the phone with a loudspeaker in
       | a loud environment while both seem to understand each other well.
       | 
       | But for some reason, the majority of people don't care, and so in
       | some weird way, the concept of sound pollution don't exist.
       | 
       | When sound pollution don't exist as a concept, there is nothing
       | to get annoyed about.
        
       | stephenhandley wrote:
       | /)_-)
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/s?k=headphones
        
       | milleramp wrote:
       | I wish there was an app for the other annoyances of the 'Bombay'
       | airport. Like the get your ass in line app, or I don't need you
       | to carry my luggage 5ft and demand a tip app.
        
       | evo_9 wrote:
       | My 3 and 5 year old love this, very entertaining for small
       | children.
       | 
       | And I'll most definitely use this for its intended use, great way
       | to solve that problem. Nice job
        
       | pseingatl wrote:
       | Is this an iOS app? Android?
        
       | falkensmaize wrote:
       | This sounds like an "I want to get my ass kicked" application.
        
       | logicziller wrote:
       | So, a tool that ends up annoying more people than the first
       | person.
        
       | jamesholden wrote:
       | This is a weird comment but, I read this before bed. In my dream,
       | I was on a subway or at an airport or some travel place and I did
       | this and the dude in my dream got mad and chased me. :D
       | 
       | Even subconsciously, I seem to love this app.
        
       | throwaway758439 wrote:
       | Not surprising, dude is from India, and in his mind solution to
       | (noise) pollution is more noise pollution, guess why their
       | country is the way it is, **hole.
        
         | NSPG911 wrote:
         | Thanks throwaway account.
         | 
         | But have you fully read it? By replaying what was playing, it
         | forces the original noise to stop and in return, the repeated
         | noise.
        
       | m151 wrote:
       | Next, we need an app like this for smoking in public.
        
       | the_wolo wrote:
       | I like it but what this program needs is some DSP: an overdrive,
       | reverb, delay, flanger, chorus and what not :D
        
       | mancerayder wrote:
       | Unfortunately this is the most dangerous when it is most needed -
       | on the New York City subway, especially when the train has a cell
       | signal, when jackasses listen to reels of IG and TikTok and
       | scroll at high volume.
       | 
       | It's an incredibly rude world we live in - this behavior two
       | decades ago would have led to a fight. Now everyone is scared to
       | tell anyone anything, since punching or stabbing are risks. Also,
       | I believe the new generation is hyper tolerant of such things
       | compared to us olds.
        
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