[HN Gopher] Every country should set 16 as the minimum age for s...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Every country should set 16 as the minimum age for social media
       accounts
        
       Author : paulpauper
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2026-01-14 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.afterbabel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.afterbabel.com)
        
       | baggachipz wrote:
       | I absolutely agree that gamified, algorithm-driven social media
       | should be banned for those under 16. My issue is _how_ that
       | should be done. I sure as shit don 't want to have to present my
       | ID to look at dank memes.
        
         | JoshTriplett wrote:
         | I _don 't_ think it should be banned, but I'm all for
         | encouraging alternatives that use simple reverse-chronological
         | and don't have the same tendency to create FOMO, a desire to
         | check repeatedly, etc.
        
         | Hizonner wrote:
         | Why for those under 16 in particular? It has no value for
         | anybody at any age, and has apparently driven tons of adults
         | insane.
         | 
         | But the right answer is still to ban advertising. And I don't
         | mean just to those under 16.
        
           | glial wrote:
           | Agree, targeted advertising in particular is a trojan horse
           | for many other internet-fueled social ills.
        
         | jsemrau wrote:
         | Its not only gamified and algorithm driven. People are also
         | monetarily incentivized for socially harmful behaviors.
         | Irrespective of political affiliation. Political content is
         | highly engaging and also highly toxic.
        
       | gregbot wrote:
       | There are two objectives that western regimes have for pushing
       | these draconian measures: the first is to end the historically
       | unprecedented era of free and anonymous political speech by
       | ordinary people. The second is to prevent anti-imperialist
       | arguments and perspectives from reaching the eyes and ears of
       | young western people. Young people will only hear the
       | perspectives taught in government school and on corporate media.
       | No choosing a different perspective early in life.
       | 
       | On the idea that this is needed to "protect children" it is the
       | job of parents not the state to decide what media their children
       | consume. If you want to make that easier for parents then
       | regulate and mandate parental controls and make sure parents
       | always have the choice.
        
         | lawn wrote:
         | Or, you know, they actually want to protect the mental health
         | of people.
         | 
         | You may argue that the approach is bad (I would agree) but it's
         | not because of some evil mastermind plot.
        
           | JoshTriplett wrote:
           | There's been some pretty clear information from countries
           | enacting online ID laws that they want it _precisely_ so that
           | they can control discourse, not for any kind of protection.
           | This isn 't a hypothetical, it's the actual stated goals.
           | 
           | https://bsky.app/profile/tupped.bsky.social/post/3lwgcmswmy2.
           | ..
           | 
           | > The U.K. Online Safety Act was (avowedly, as revealed in a
           | recent High Court case) "not primarily aimed at protecting
           | children" but at regulating "services that have a significant
           | influence over public discourse."
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | > There's been some pretty clear information from countries
             | enacting online ID laws that they want it precisely so that
             | they can control discourse, not for any kind of protection.
             | 
             | Please do share that information.
        
               | cocoto wrote:
               | Free speech violations in UK and the country pushing for
               | more ID checks is a simple example.
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | I'm not seeing how it's an example showing that they're
               | doing it "precisely so that they can control discourse".
               | 
               | You could still argue that ID checks are done to
               | partition content by underage/adult which for many is a
               | reasonable thing to do absent any better solutions.
        
               | JoshTriplett wrote:
               | Edited the comment to include an example.
        
         | Centigonal wrote:
         | I don't think that social media has had that effect in
         | practice.
         | 
         | We're all scrolling through algorithmic feeds on walled gardens
         | owned by some of the greatest capitalists in history. Domestic
         | and foreign disinformation campaigns are not uncommon, and have
         | affected election results and fomented atrocities (as in
         | Myanmar). The US, which birthed most of these technologies, has
         | grown more imperialistic and conservative since their adoption.
         | 
         | EDIT: I saw your edit. I agree that enforcing an industry-wide
         | standard for parental controls, preferable one that can be set
         | per-device and must be respected by all social media services,
         | is the right way to do this. Internet ID laws are dystopian
         | insanity.
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | So you say, but I don't think social media companies are benign
         | or have the best interest of visitors at heart. If anything
         | they make it far easier to identify users who are susceptible
         | to propaganda and feed it to them in bulk.
        
           | gregbot wrote:
           | i totally agree, but the solution to corporate manipulation
           | of our feed is to regulate social media so that the first
           | amendment applies to the algorithm so the companies
           | themselves dont have the power to push their own propaganda.
           | People should decide for themselves what perspectives they
           | agree with online.
        
           | taco_emoji wrote:
           | Then the social media companies need regulation.
        
             | gregbot wrote:
             | Exactly. The fact that western governments have held that
             | the corporations themselves have a free speech right to
             | control your feed and speech but you do not have a free
             | speech right to choose what the algorithm feeds you or what
             | you say is absolutely stunning and reveals that capitalism
             | is more powerful than liberalism in the west.
        
             | NickC25 wrote:
             | Too bad, they have too much money to bribe lawmakers with.
             | Zuck is worth a quarter trillion dollars, and he ain't in a
             | rush to give up so much as a penny of that if it doesn't
             | fufill his goals of enriching himself further.
        
             | logicchains wrote:
             | Giving the state the power to regulate social media will
             | just allow the the state to censor and control information
             | again like it does with traditional media.
        
         | ryandvm wrote:
         | There are a lot of problems with age verification schemes, but
         | you are doing your position a disservice by suggesting that
         | anybody that doesn't want their kid to be bullied on Snapchat
         | is actually just a puppet of fascist regimes trying to stifle
         | political speech.
         | 
         | You should learn to appreciate the nuance of opinions that
         | differ from your own if you actually want to, you know,
         | convince anyone of anything.
        
           | logicchains wrote:
           | >anybody that doesn't want their kid to be bullied on
           | Snapchat is actually just a puppet of fascist regimes trying
           | to stifle political speech.
           | 
           | They are fascists if they want to prevent everybody else's
           | kids using social media just because they're too shitty
           | parents to teach their own kids that sticks and stones may
           | break my bones but names can never hurt me.
        
         | ianbutler wrote:
         | We shouldn't ban social media we should ban algorithmically
         | curated feeds that push any specific type of content. Outrage
         | sells and so platform curated feeds have curated outrage and
         | extreme content.
         | 
         | In practice I haven't seen much useful political discourse by
         | the average person, but as long as we don't selectively amplify
         | voices through machine signals and they NATURALLY accrue
         | followings then whatever I guess.
        
           | gherkinnn wrote:
           | Ban targeted ads while you're at it and throw around the most
           | savage fines for companies who don't comply.
           | 
           | The world will be better for it.
        
         | Propelloni wrote:
         | > the first is to end the historically unprecedented era of
         | free and anonymous political speech by ordinary people. The
         | second is to prevent anti-imperialist arguments and
         | perspectives from reaching the eyes and ears of young western
         | people. Young people will only hear the perspectives taught in
         | government school and on corporate media. No choosing a
         | different perspective early in life.
         | 
         | Yet my motherland, the nation with arguably the most liberal
         | social media in the world and the least functional school
         | system among "western regimes", is the most socially polarized,
         | has voted in an insecure bully on a platform of hate and
         | prejudice, and is about to plunge into imperialistic conquest,
         | possibly against our allies for 70 years. I can't see how age-
         | gating social media can do any more harm.
        
           | ngruhn wrote:
           | Well said. The value of free speech is that all perspectives
           | are heard, so that the best hopefully prevails. Social media
           | is not doing that. You only see the shit you already agree
           | with or the most ridiculous and extreme points on the other
           | side.
        
         | yongjik wrote:
         | > The second is to prevent anti-imperialist arguments and
         | perspectives from reaching the eyes and ears of young western
         | people.
         | 
         | Sounds like you're complaining that these measures will make it
         | hard for authoritarian governments to astroturf young western
         | people so that they radicalize and hate each other more.
        
           | ghssds wrote:
           | I think fighting authoritarianism with authoritarian measures
           | is counter-productive.
        
           | logicchains wrote:
           | Because everything my government does is good and everything
           | the other governments do is bad, as that's what the state-
           | sponsored media I consume told me!
        
       | matthewmorgan wrote:
       | I don't really like how western governments are coordinating all
       | these massive law changes together. Something distinctly sinister
       | about it.
        
         | knallfrosch wrote:
         | Sounds like you'll have problems sourcing NATO national IDs in
         | St. Petersburg to create fake accounts.
        
         | sejje wrote:
         | Amen to that.
         | 
         | I don't think Europe and the US share enough values to do it on
         | a lot of fronts, so perhaps that will shield me as an American.
         | 
         | But it seems like a lot of that coming down the hatch for most
         | of Europe.
        
         | lovich wrote:
         | It's governments with similar cultures and practices, all
         | tackling a relatively new phenomenon.
         | 
         | Coming up with similar laws could just be convergent evolution
         | rather than coordination.
         | 
         | You also can't discount that once one country has tried it
         | others that we're considering similar legislation are much more
         | likely to take the plunge if the outcomes in the first country
         | aren't negative
        
         | Quarrelsome wrote:
         | something sinister in the masses of misinformation, especially
         | political/social that takes place in those spaces too.
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | This would disadvantage young business owners, cutting them off
       | from a crucial marketing channel for businesses in the modern
       | age.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Children shouldn't be business owners.
        
           | ghssds wrote:
           | According to who?
        
             | esseph wrote:
             | Laws in most countries require the age of 18 for signing
             | contracts or anything legally binding.
        
       | sejje wrote:
       | I think it would be much easier to pressure the ~ten companies or
       | whatever to implement policies.
        
       | bahmboo wrote:
       | Or perhaps we should watch what happens in Australia and draw
       | lessons from it? I have a hard time telling a teenager that they
       | cannot socialize with people just because it is via electronic
       | means. I also do not like teenagers identities manipulated for
       | commercial ends. Though we have done this since the 1950s. Also
       | shouldn't we ban MTV and rock and roll music in general? It's
       | destroying the youth!
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | > I have a hard time telling a teenager that they cannot
         | socialize with people just because it is via electronic means
         | 
         | There are still other means to chat with other individuals or
         | groups that don't involve social media.
        
         | sejje wrote:
         | It's the social media, not the digital communication.
         | 
         | AIM/ICQ didn't rot our brains or attention spans.
        
           | bahmboo wrote:
           | That's a good point. The problem for me is where the line is
           | drawn. Is a car enthusiast forum social media? How about
           | youtube comments? I think society is generally improved when
           | the teenage generation is at least part of discussions. We
           | need to protect the young people but excluding them and
           | suppressing them leads to unintended consequences. I am not a
           | tiktok apologist. Hey Facebook used to be enemy number 1 and
           | now it's an afterthought for many people.
        
             | vladms wrote:
             | I would draw a line at user customized wall of content. All
             | content on sites should be organized in a similar way for
             | everybody (by date, by category, etc.). I think this would
             | reduce a lot the problems that we see currently.
             | 
             | If you want to be bold and imaginative, although doubt this
             | would ever pass, any platform that focuses or allows user
             | content, should not be allowed to show advertisements. Then
             | the incentive to have people stay more to watch more ads
             | would disappear.
        
             | sejje wrote:
             | I think mostly you know it when you see it.
             | 
             | Infinite scrolling, algorithm based (not timestamp-based),
             | "stories" (short videos), public (non-friend) accounts make
             | up most of the feed, ads selling views and therefore
             | companies trying to capture attention.
             | 
             | A car enthusiast forum is not doing this. phpBB sites get a
             | pass. YouTube is, though. I think YouTube is part of the
             | brain rot, although not the comments section.
             | 
             | FB, Instagram, X, tiktok, YouTube, Snapchat, etc.
        
               | NickC25 wrote:
               | Anything that promotes short-form video should be looked
               | at.
               | 
               | Youtube promoting shorts is bad.
               | 
               | A youtube long-form video about, say, car repair, or
               | quantum physics, or a history of eastern asian languages
               | doesn't contribute to brain rot.
               | 
               | The Chinese, take it for what it's worth, knew how to
               | control TikTok. They simply banned non educational
               | content on the platform. You want to watch a 5 minute
               | video explaining the basics of a math theorem, or
               | explaining a chess opening? Sure, that's cool. Stupid 30
               | second clips of dances, memes, reactions, etc? Nah,
               | that's dumb.
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | That's better imo, but creates a new problem.
               | 
               | As we can see anywhere and everywhere, moderation teams
               | have to use their power, even when nothing is in
               | violation of the rules. They'll start policing more
               | content, and pretty soon they'll be arresting people.
        
               | NickC25 wrote:
               | Youtube content moderators can arrest people?
        
               | bahmboo wrote:
               | "you know it when you see it" is a trap and ripe for
               | abuse in its own right. Your description however is
               | pretty spot on for this moment in internet evolution.
               | 
               | Interesting to me is that I pay for youtube premium so I
               | don't see any ads. They even have the jump ahead feature
               | where you can skip in video project promotions. It's the
               | most ad free experience I have on the internet. The
               | comment sections are about the lowest of the low knuckle
               | draggers and outright dimwits.
               | 
               | I'm also a bit out of touch because I quit all social
               | media. Youtube shorts is about the closest I get and
               | that's a mind sink for sure. [Edit: and hacker news which
               | I consider social media without the ads]
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | I mostly use YouTube without ads, and with sponsorblock,
               | so a similar experience.
               | 
               | I think YouTube shorts is exactly the experience we're
               | talking about. And the youth watch it by scrolling up,
               | not by selecting shorts that look interesting.
               | 
               | I resisted shorts for a long time, but I watch them now
               | as well. Prefer them, even.
               | 
               | The fact we're not seeing ads, and that the comments are
               | atrocious content, is irrelevant--our attention spans are
               | at stake, not our wallets.
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | Everybody exactly knows where to draw the line... No one
             | gives a shit about car enthusiast forums, everyone is
             | talking about infinite scroll x targeted content x
             | advertising powered by algorithms exclusively designed to
             | extract your time, money and attention.
        
         | gregbot wrote:
         | > I also do not like teenagers identities manipulated for
         | commercial ends.
         | 
         | This. If western "liberal" "democracies" are concerned about
         | children's privacy then we should push back on surveillance
         | capitalism, not force people to submit government id in order
         | to express their opinion online.
        
           | jamespo wrote:
           | Ah yes, the limitless benefits of anonymous posting.
        
         | Quarrelsome wrote:
         | it makes sense in terms of grooming. Most parents want to deny
         | their children agency until they're no longer minors and giving
         | them the internet massively undermines that idea. You're
         | plugging your child into a stream of information that is mostly
         | a sewer of misinformation.
        
           | logicchains wrote:
           | The school system is a sewer of bias with 90%+ of teachers
           | leaning left. Decentralised media is the only chance many
           | kids have of hearing both sides of the story.
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | >they cannot socialize with people
         | 
         | they can socialize online perfectly fine. Excluded from the ban
         | in Australia are among others, WhatsApp, Discord, Steam and
         | Facebook Messenger. TikTok, Twitter or Instagram are not and
         | never have been platforms in which people form social
         | communities with their peers.
         | 
         | >Also shouldn't we ban MTV and rock and roll music in general?
         | 
         | No, because there was never any evidence that rock has harmed
         | the youth. Jonathan Haidt, author of this piece, has conducted
         | extensive research to show that social media does.
        
           | bahmboo wrote:
           | > Twitter or Instagram are not and never have been platforms
           | in which people form social communities with their peers.
           | 
           | By peers do you mean people they know in person or
           | demographic peers?
           | 
           | I'm not going to anecdata [edit: then I do] but on platforms
           | like Facebook I only have friends that I know personally (or
           | at least when I used to use it). Twitter was the opposite.
           | 
           | Oddly the most online abuse I've had is during in game chats
           | and providing open source software but I digress...
           | 
           | The "rock and roll" thing is because "think of the kids" is a
           | perennial siren call. Only sometimes is it valid. I can't
           | speak for everyone but there seems to be a consensus that
           | "social media" can be deeply harmful for some young people
           | and we should not ignore it. That this one guy made a study
           | and it happened to support his hypothesis isn't enough for
           | this one voter to want to ban online networks of pesky
           | teenagers calling each other names and buying stupid crap.
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | I like that this article at least links to a document with the
       | features they want under scrutiny, but they do avoid a
       | definition, and nearly all networked systems have at least some
       | of the features in the document[1].
       | 
       | Is google docs social media? It certainly has social features and
       | I've been witness to cyber-bullying via a shared google doc.
       | 
       | What about Spotify? It has social features far beyond just
       | sharing playlists
       | 
       | WhatsApp? Discord? MMS?
       | 
       | 1:
       | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GVO7sNuCNmNwqVK64PHQ...
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Discord is 100% social media. Just like WhatsApp. MSN
         | definitely was, remember MSN Groups? MSN Chat (the IRC knock
         | off), and a bunch of other things. As someone who has consumed
         | social media and chat platforms, I will note that most chat
         | platforms are social media in their own regard. Habbo Hotel is
         | another example of social media. :)
        
           | iso1631 wrote:
           | Is SMS social media?
        
             | smlavine wrote:
             | No, it is a protocol that allows a user to create their own
             | social _network_ within their Messaging app.
        
               | atiedebee wrote:
               | Wait, how is that different from WhatsApp?
        
               | Bratmon wrote:
               | How is that different from Discord?
        
           | joe_mamba wrote:
           | _> Just like WhatsApp._
           | 
           | Sorry but I don't consider WhatsApp to be in the social media
           | category since it's just a chat app for your contacts, not an
           | A/B algorithmically driven carousel of media to keep you
           | hooked in and for strangers to hit you up (unless they have
           | your phone number). However I do think Meta will try to
           | slowly make it a social media app.
        
             | WA wrote:
             | Kids in 5th grade use WhatsApp for entertainment to send
             | hundreds of messages per day filled with memes and slop.
             | From the perspective of one kid in a class chat, this is
             | indistinguishable from an algorithmically curated feed.
        
               | joe_mamba wrote:
               | _> this is indistinguishable from an algorithmically
               | curated feed_
               | 
               | If a classmate is sending you slop memes, then it's human
               | curated content from an acquaintance, and not
               | algorithmically driven, unless you consider your friends
               | bots.
        
               | robot-wrangler wrote:
               | Is it? If kids grab the top result of a massively A/B
               | tested algorithmic feed trying hook people and/or
               | maximize the controversy / engagement, then arbitrage it
               | onto another simpler less gamified platform... is that
               | really human curated? There's some truth to the idea
               | that, as long as there is any social media, everything is
               | social media.
        
         | dleslie wrote:
         | The simple answer is that children should not have access to a
         | cell phone at their leisure, or unmonitored access to a
         | computer or tablet. Access should be limited, purposeful, and
         | monitored when possible.
        
         | kybernetikos wrote:
         | As you say 'social media' is not a good category, we should
         | specify exactly the things that are concerning. Here are the
         | ones where I'm concerned about their effect on young people:
         | 
         | 1. a user is shown new content based on extensive profiling and
         | a secret algorithm that the user does not control
         | 
         | 2. a users activity can be discovered and tracked by people
         | that intend to take advantage of the user
         | 
         | 3. the operation of the site is optimised for addiction (or
         | more euphemistically "attention")
         | 
         | I absolutely don't think that a book club or a kids own website
         | comments or person to person chat systems should be included in
         | the rules.
         | 
         | Note - I'm not saying these things should be banned, just that
         | I think it's reasonable to restrict their use to adults.
        
       | NickC25 wrote:
       | Honestly it should be even older than that. Should be 21. Let's
       | not let easily influenced teenagers on what are effectively mass
       | advertising platforms designed to make the likes of Mark
       | Zuckerberg even more money.
        
       | hnspirit95 wrote:
       | Am I crazy for thinking setting age limits is just a lazy half
       | measure by politicians who don't want to actually draft
       | meaningful legislation for social media?
       | 
       | Like the negatives of social media aren't just isolated to just
       | kids and while shielding them from it is generally a good thing
       | it still seems like putting duct tape over a giant crack in the
       | foundation.
        
         | Quarrelsome wrote:
         | its better than the alternative. I think generally in terms of
         | grooming the internet is an insane thing to give to minors.
        
           | hnspirit95 wrote:
           | Which alternative are we talking here? Doing nothing? Or the
           | alternative I mentioned where governments actually do
           | something for a change?
        
             | Quarrelsome wrote:
             | doing nothing. Governments typically marginalise techies
             | when it comes to decision making, so the least they can do
             | is make the call of lesser harm.
             | 
             | If kids really want to use social media, they'll find a
             | way. Its more about making it hard/impossible for those who
             | haven't yet grasped their agency. As ever, its about
             | electors and in this case: parents.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | No at all, this is my actual problem with the proposal.
         | 
         | We're 6 months away from the news report about "the new thing
         | kids are using on the Internet" but the open propaganda and AI
         | forgeries on Twitter and Facebook will continue to do their
         | work on everyone else.
        
       | rpowers wrote:
       | Just ban social media entirely. You would find a lot benefits to
       | society for doing exactly that.
        
         | eli wrote:
         | Is HN social media?
        
           | ngruhn wrote:
           | I'm certainly visiting HN somewhat compulsively.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | Assuming someone won't harm themselves or accept sacrifice
           | for a cause is a poor argument.
           | 
           | If burning HN to the ground deleted Facebook and Tiktok out
           | of existence, then let it burn.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | No, ban the ad-based monetization model.
         | 
         | That's the most important perverse incentive. Others can be
         | dealt with later.
        
       | eli wrote:
       | Surprised to see this seemingly presented positively on HN.
       | 
       | Social media "feels" like it should be uniquely bad for children
       | but the evidence is low-quality and contradictory. For example,
       | high social media use is _associated_ with anxiety and
       | depression, but which direction does that relationship run?
       | Meanwhile there are documented benefits especially for youth who
       | are members of marginalized groups (e.g. LGBTQ). Don 't get me
       | wrong, I think there are a lot of problems with the big social
       | media companies. I just think they affect adults too and that we
       | should address them directly.
       | 
       | But setting that aside, the practical implications of age gate
       | laws are terrible. The options are basically to have an LLM guess
       | your age based on your face, or uploading sensitive identity
       | documents to multiple sites and hope they are stored and
       | processed securely and not reused for other purposes.
       | 
       | But OK let's assume social media is always bad for kids and also
       | that someone invents a perfect age gate... kids are just going to
       | find places to hang out online that are less moderated and less
       | regulated and less safe. How is that not worse?
        
         | B56b wrote:
         | Social media being bad for mental health in childhood is one of
         | the most robust theories I've ever seen for these kind of
         | society-wide problems. You can peruse the After Babel Substack
         | for the evidence if you're not convinced, but Jonathan Haidt
         | has consistently done incredible work here.
        
           | eli wrote:
           | All due respect, I do not think the substack of one of the
           | world's leading proponents of the theory that screen time is
           | harmful is a good source for evidence that runs contrary to
           | that narrative.
           | 
           | Here's Nature reviewing his book:
           | 
           | > _Hundreds of researchers, myself included, have searched
           | for the kind of large effects suggested by Haidt. Our efforts
           | have produced a mix of no, small and mixed associations. Most
           | data are correlative. When associations over time are found,
           | they suggest not that social-media use predicts or causes
           | depression, but that young people who already have mental-
           | health problems use such platforms more often or in different
           | ways from their healthy peers_
           | 
           | > _These are not just our data or my opinion. Several meta-
           | analyses and systematic reviews converge on the same message.
           | An analysis done in 72 countries shows no consistent or
           | measurable associations between well-being and the roll-out
           | of social media globally. Moreover, findings from the
           | Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development study, the largest
           | long-term study of adolescent brain development in the United
           | States, has found no evidence of drastic changes associated
           | with digital-technology use. Haidt, a social psychologist at
           | New York University, is a gifted storyteller, but his tale is
           | currently one searching for evidence._
           | 
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00902-2
        
             | jamespo wrote:
             | Even the author of your link says "considerable reforms to
             | these platforms are required, given how much time young
             | people spend on them" whilst stopping short of a ban. The
             | problem is these "considerable reforms" will always be half
             | arsed.
        
               | eli wrote:
               | I think considerable reforms are needed too!
               | 
               | There are a lot of problems with the way these platforms
               | treat adults too. I think an age gate is the wrong
               | solution and in many ways it doesn't go far enough.
        
             | B56b wrote:
             | I actually do think that Dr. Haidt is a good source for
             | getting a fair understanding of both sides of the issue. If
             | you've read or listened to him you'll know that it's a huge
             | part of his ethos.
             | 
             | Here's his rebuttal to that article:
             | https://www.afterbabel.com/p/phone-based-childhood-cause-
             | epi....
             | 
             | I think you'd struggle to find someone more earnestly
             | trying to get an unbiased understanding of the reality of
             | this topic.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | Do you think there is a more compelling explanation for the
         | mental health decline in teenage girls?
        
           | logicchains wrote:
           | Yes, it's the culture going to shit; the same decline hasn't
           | been observed in e.g. Asian countries.
        
         | ngruhn wrote:
         | > kids are just going to find places to hang out online that
         | are less moderated and less regulated and less safe. How is
         | that not worse?
         | 
         | Some will. But I bet a lot of kids "have to be" on
         | Instagram/TikTok/etc because everyone else is. I don't think
         | they all gonna flock to 4chan because they got locked out of
         | the big platforms.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | I'd argue even the darkest corners of 4chans aren't as bad as
           | the average daily dose of brain rot delivered to hundreds of
           | millions of people through infinite scroll algorithms on
           | TikTok &co. And once you remove the sickening parts of 4chan
           | I'd say it's overall a much more pleasant place than most
           | other social medias, it's one of the last mainstream website
           | that still somewhat feels like the golden age of internet
        
             | dyauspitr wrote:
             | 4chan is categorically bad. The combination of humor +
             | racism/misogyny is like crack at brainwashing kids.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | This is not surprising at all. HN's perspective seems to
         | generally go further with banning under 18 year old from having
         | smartphones in general.
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | > But setting that aside, the practical implications of age
         | gate laws are terrible. The options are basically to have an
         | LLM guess your age based on your face, or uploading sensitive
         | identity documents to multiple sites and hope they are stored
         | and processed securely and not reused for other purposes.
         | 
         | Those aren't the only options. See the comments on almost any
         | of the many other discussions of age verification on HN for
         | details of ways to do it that do not involve giving any
         | sensitive information to sites (other than what you explicitly
         | trying to give to them, like your age being above their
         | threshold) and do not involve guessing your age via LLM or any
         | other means.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Put it this way: is it good for a child to spend an appreciable
         | fraction of their day browsing social media? Did children
         | previously just have free hours at hand to burn on this? The
         | answer is of course no, there are not more hours in the day
         | after the creation of social media, so its usage comes at the
         | cost of something else in that child's life, usually their
         | precious little downtime where they might plan and think about
         | their own life. Or maybe at the cost of other activities that
         | might be more engaging physically or mentally.
        
       | oytis wrote:
       | I am not a fan of governments controlling the internet and of
       | Australia in this regard in particular, but Feature 4 makes it
       | all acceptable to me. We shouldn't ban all of web 2.0, people,
       | including children, have right to talk to each other, but
       | gamified, attention-leeching design is absolutely harmful, and I
       | would be happy to see banned for everyone
        
       | taco_emoji wrote:
       | No, social media companies need to fucking moderate.
        
         | wrxd wrote:
         | That's not going to happen
        
       | fnoef wrote:
       | It's better to just ban social media all together. It clearly
       | doesn't provide enough good value to society, regardless of age.
        
       | AngryData wrote:
       | If something is unacceptable for a 15 year old, it is
       | unacceptable for the majority of the adult population too. I do
       | not support age restrictions on information in any form. If you
       | don't want your kids to do or view certain things, that is your
       | problem to solve. There are plenty of parental control options
       | and apps already, we have had legislation proposed to label adult
       | content, the reason all this verification crap keeps getting
       | pushed is because corporations want your full identity to sell
       | and fascist supporters want to dox everyone and their ideas and
       | activities for the government to control and punish people for.
        
       | Reason077 wrote:
       | Is this ban actually effective and going to be enforced, anyway?
       | My 15-year old niece just returned from Australia where she
       | reports she was definitely still able to access Tik Tok and
       | Instagram while in the country. Her similarly-aged Australian
       | cousins thought it was all a bit of a joke too, apparently.
        
       | tolerance wrote:
       | If this were to take effect with the bulk of social life taking
       | place digitally we can expect minimum voting ages to be decreased
       | the same and in the case of the US, the age of consent for sex to
       | be standardized in the same direction too with a deemphasis on 18
       | as the de facto minimum at the cultural level.
       | 
       | And we can expect 15 year olds to hit the workforce full-time
       | around then too I reckon. Or younger. Imagine 9 year olds stowed
       | away in Waymo taxi trunks with socket wrenches and cyberdecks.
        
         | true_religion wrote:
         | Or we could stagger the introduction to adult society, like we
         | do today.
         | 
         | Drinking beer at 16, drinking liquor at 18 for example.
        
           | tolerance wrote:
           | In some circles I believe that's referred to as 'grooming'?
        
       | dontwannahearit wrote:
       | This too shall pass.
       | 
       | In 2050 people will say "Do you remember social media?" and
       | someone will say "Oh yeah, those online systems where everything
       | you said was used to build a marketing profile of you? Where
       | every picture you posted of your girlfriend / wife / sister /
       | daughter / aunt / grandmother or child was taken by some weirdo
       | and turned into porn? Where our kids hung out and were
       | radicalized by fanatics and foreign powers?"
       | 
       | "Oh yeah, whatever happened to them?"
        
       | Tiereven wrote:
       | Maybe the problem isn't the teens. Bullying is bullying no matter
       | where it happens.
       | 
       | Profiting via dark patterns is despicable, whether it's preying
       | on teens or the elderly. How many elderly people are fed
       | distorted, sensational news and believe it wholesale? At least
       | our teens have learned to be skeptics.
       | 
       | Instead of punishing the innocent to gatekeep a system that is
       | one of the most important innovations in history, maybe we should
       | focus on the root cause: the crappified, ad-based internet that
       | glorifies "clicks" above all else.
       | 
       | We might have to face the fact that "free" accounts have become
       | too expensive. If the cost of a free internet is a business model
       | that monetizes outrage and addiction, it's not working. I don't
       | love the idea of paid-only access or enforced identity, but
       | applying a single standard to everyone might be better than what
       | we have now.
       | 
       | I still believe in the free internet, and I know what I want to
       | do to build it: Make excellent content. Teach good things.
       | 
       | I want to prove the value of an open and positive system.
        
       | cadamsdotcom wrote:
       | It's hard not to blame Meta for this.
       | 
       | Did they really need to push the evil lever to 100% just for
       | engagement? Or could they have pushed back on shareholders just a
       | teeny bit, in the name of long term legislative freedom?
        
         | gherkinnn wrote:
         | Blaming a company that allowed bots to hold "sensual"
         | conversations with children? An outrage!
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/15/meta-ai-c...
        
       | stevenalowe wrote:
       | People under 16 should not be permitted to socialize or express
       | themselves, nor should they be allowed to hear words from adults
       | at all, not just online.
       | 
       | /s
        
       | jmward01 wrote:
       | The impacts of social media on children (and adults for that
       | matter) are becoming more clear by the day but a question, I
       | think, is is it the format/function or is it the algorithm to
       | drive the feed that is the issue? So, for instance, pushing
       | damaging teen influencers at a child's feed or pushing
       | negative/polarizing content, etc etc. Could there be safe social
       | media, that wouldn't need verification, if for instance the
       | algorithm was 'dumb' and just showed friend feeds and feeds
       | specifically selected to follow?
        
         | politelemon wrote:
         | The necessity we have for infinite unsustainable growth will
         | always result in unsafe social media. Safe social media
         | requires altruistic and benevolent intentions.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | >if for instance the algorithm was 'dumb' and just showed
         | friend feeds and feeds specifically selected to follow?
         | 
         | That is how it used to work on facebook But social media was
         | still toxic to teens even back then from the pressures they'd
         | put on eachother, expectations for posting, etc.
        
       | daedrdev wrote:
       | What counts as social media? Is discord social media? What about
       | Roblox? What about youtube?
       | 
       | Many sites don't need accounts to access, is the account the
       | issue or the access?
        
       | unquietwiki wrote:
       | I think stuff like this, is trying to recreate a world that
       | doesn't exist anymore. With whom, are you gonna go play in the
       | woods with, that haven't already been bulldozed into housing and
       | strip malls? Do you need to watch YouTube only on a parent's TV
       | that's logged in, even for homework help? Some kids start working
       | at 14 or 15: they can be trusted to work somewhere outside of
       | home, but not online? What about Steam games? What about any
       | games? What about hobby & fan forums, that have nothing to do
       | with "grooming" or grabbing eyeballs? What's next, an Internet
       | license?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2026-01-14 23:00 UTC)